January 14, 2025 • 45 mins
If you're looking to increase your reading in 2025, today's episode is for you!. Sarah and Laura discuss their reading habits and the Traci Thomas joins Sarah to discuss all things books, from reading habits during busy seasons (Traci has twins!), curating your reading lists, getting out of ruts, tracking reading, and much more.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Airing in mid January of twenty twenty five. Sarah is
going to be interviewing Tracy Thomas from The Stacks Podcast.
They're going to be talking all things reading. I know
a lot of people are looking to achieve various reading
goals in the new year, or else just have a
good reading habit in their lives. We're going to be
finding out lots of ideas from her. So, Sarah, how
(01:05):
was your reading year last year? Like in twenty twenty four,
it was.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Great for about seven months and then it just fell
into a hole. And I think it was just a
mix of life stressors, picking the wrong novel that I
got stuck on and writing a lot, because when you're
writing a lot, it is a little bit harder for
me to consume so many words as I'm trying to
produce so many words.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I would say it was not a great reading
year for me either. I mean, I read some good books.
I went on a kick of reading about the ancient Earth,
so I now know the history of Earth from like
when life was first appearing six hundred maybe even seven
hundred million years ago, in the various extinctions that occurred
along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's kind of fascinating. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I could go in a whole tangent about the fact
that you haven't found the fossils doesn't mean there wasn't anything.
It just means that maybe animals were of the form
that didn't fossilize. The beginning is the time moves backward.
Let's just say the time keeps moving backward. So funny
thing with that. Anyway, I read very little else. I
(02:12):
I read about the ancient Earth and like nothing else.
But you know, it's just it was something that had
to go. I've had a lot of other things going on.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I don't know. You're writing a lot too. You wrote
a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm writing a lot too, like I'm writing a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it might be. I wonder how many words you
wrote in twenty twenty or I bet it was like
just because of your substance, like it was a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, well, between substocks and the book for Breakfast, the book,
everything else, blogging, other newsletters.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Maybe I should pare all this.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Down some, but you know whatever, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I like it, But you know, I did you do
you track what you read? I did in twenty seventeen
and twenty eighteen. Those years I kept a reading log.
I have stopped doing that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I have tracked every year since I believe twenty twenty,
and there might even be if I mind my blog,
I think there might even be some earlier years. But
I regret this actually, Like I'm so jealous of people
who have good Reads going back fifteen years or however
long Goodreads has existed for, or who have a notebook
of like every book they've read since they were twenty
(03:16):
or something like that. I feel like I would have
loved to have that kind of artifact, and I absolutely don't.
But yeah, since twenty twenty, they're all twenty twenty through
twenty twenty three, I think are on my blog, and
then in twenty twenty four I just went on paper,
so I need to immortalize that somehow, and then we'll see.
I think I'm gonna go back to posting them in
twenty twenty five. Okay, well that sounds good.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah. I posted little reviews on my website for a
while and then kind of stopped doing that. Too many
things stopped after I don't know twenty eight, I just
stopped posting anything related to books. Do you have a
TVR list though, Do you like keep track of what
you want to read?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like from time to time. I'll make one sometimes when
I'm doing my seasonal planning. It's not at all a like,
I'm not trying to read them all. I'm not trying
to only read books from that list. I need to
have more looseness and like, if I hear a review
that sounds awesome and I want to like order it
right then and there and read that, that's totally fine.
But I think it helps me strategize my library holds,
(04:13):
and then whether I actually read all of those can vary,
but I would say three out of five seasons of
the year quintiles, I do make a TBR list.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, so I kind of just if I see a
book that I want to read, i'd like take a
picture of it, or I write it down or email
it to myself, and then when I'm looking for something
to read, if I have those, I will often download
the sample on Kindle first. And that's just because I've
been I mean, it's sort of the equivalent of like
(04:42):
checking it out from the library, because it's free for
that part, and then you can test it out. And
I do buy the vast majority of the books that
I've downloaded the sample from, but I've been saved from
a few purchases from things that sounded excellent and then
within the first like three pages, as like this person
is no, no, this is not going to be one
thing I'm going to want to read it. So good
(05:02):
to know that you would have known that maybe if
you read the first few pages in Barnes and Noble
and you just don't know that necessarily online. I mean,
I guess they do sometimes supposed to first pages. That's
my life hack I've mentioned that I'm sure many times,
is download the sample, see if you like it, and
then you can really quickly order it.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The nice thing is. I feel like that also provides
a really kind of It points out that there's a
cut point at which you are actively deciding to continue
or not, which for somebody like me who has trouble like,
it's not that I don't want to abandon books, it's
just that I'll get past a certain point and feel like, oh, well,
if I've invested this much like I should. But I mean,
if I've only had the sample, you have this limited
(05:39):
number and then you're like, is it yes or is
it no?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, and you almost every time could no ten to
fifteen percent in if you're going to want to read
this book. I mean, it's true, I would imagine usually
we're good by that point. But I'm excited to hear
what Tracy has to say. So here's Tracy Thomas from
The Stacks.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, I am so excited to welcome Tracy to the podcast.
She is the host of The Stacks, which she'll tell
us all about and I am so inspired by her
reading life and I'm sure you will be as well.
Welcome Tracy, Hi, thank you for having me. Well, today
we're going to talk all things books and reading, which
I know is on the top of many people's minds
(06:16):
as we're entering a new year, reading goals are very common.
Let's start with the fact that, well, we don't have
the total number of books you read last year, Tracy,
but it was at least one hundred and ten in
like November. So where are we?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So it's December as we're recording this, and I am
at Let me pull up my spreadsheet.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I am at one thirty one thirty.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
That is amazing thirty four one. Before you assume that
Tracy like must have lots of free time, we will
also note that she has five year old twins.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Ay sure Dale, Ay sure Dale.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
All right, so I obviously part of it probably has
to do with your career choice that you are a
book podcaster, but I'm super interested in your reading journey,
like did you always read that much? And did your
reading change when you entered the parenting phase?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Okay, so no, I did not always read one hundred
plus books in my life a year.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No no, no, no, that's because this is my job.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I did always love to read, and sort of the
origin story of the podcast and also just like reading
background is that I used to live in New York.
I used to read a ton in New York. I
read a ton as a kid. After I graduated college
and was living in New York, I was like, I
want to read more. So I started reading more for fun.
And then when I moved to LA in twenty twelve,
I like stopped reading completely because there was no subway
(07:40):
to read on. Life is just very different in LA
than in New York. And so in twenty sixteen, I
was like, I'm going to read a book a month.
That's my goal. I'm going to like knock it out.
I finished that, I thought I was the new like
champion of the world. I was like, send me my
Pulitzer Prize.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I am a winner. And then in.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Twenty seven I was like, I'm going to read thirteen books.
I ended up reading twenty four books because I sort
of like hit my stride. And then in twenty eighteen
I started the show, and that year I ended up
reading eighty nine books. So obviously you can see there
was a large jump in my reading from when I
was just reading sort of for pleasure to get back
in reading, and then when reading sort of became my life.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
But then I'm doing the math, So then you got pregnant.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, I got pregnant. My kids were born in December
twenty nineteen. Yeah, so twenty nineteen I read like one
hundred books, and then in twenty twenty, I think I
read ninety five, so.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Not too much less.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
But I was still working and doing the show, so
I didn't have a lot of room to like cut
back on reading. Also, like a pandemic happened in twenty twenty,
which really shook things up. It was like a very
People always ask me, They're like, oh, what was it
like having like baby newborn twins, And I'm like, I
cannot separate that from a major global pandemic because they
(09:04):
were premature. They were three months not even when COVID started,
So like the whole thing is just all tied up
in and I haven't really unpacked that yet.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Super interesting, Well, from a pure logistics standpoint, it's twenty twenty.
You have twin babies, which still blows my mind. I
have three children, but like they're spaced out. I've never
had two babies at once, and my mind, I'm always
just so in awe of twin moms. But you had
your two babies, and how did you fit in your reading?
Even though it's your job I mean, when did you
(09:36):
do it? Was it like you would nurse and read
and like tell me a little bit about like how
cause I'm sure your amount of quote free time probably
did change.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, I mean so I read still now and back
then in a lot of different ways and at a
lot of different times. So I read physical books, I
read audiobooks, and I read off a kindle. When I
was nursing my boys, I had on each breast and
I would sit so that my legs were sort of crossed,
(10:05):
and then I would put my kindle on my knee,
and then I would bend over with my nose and
touch my nose to the kindle to turn the bag,
which is like so so silly, but that's how I
could do it, Like it made the most sense. It
was like also one of the most calm times in
my day, right, like besides naptime, which is when I
(10:25):
got a lot of work done, but also during nap
time I was recording episodes of the show. I would
have these like two hour chunks of time where I
could like record something or write something or get reading
done or whatever. So I was in the beginning when
they were still taking like three naps in the daytime hours.
I was like, this is great, I have these like
like six hours to work. But yeah, I also used
(10:46):
to go on these really long walks and I would
listen to my audio books on these really long walks.
So you know, I always tell parents, you can read.
There is enough time for you to read. It's just
a matter if that's your priority, Like it does it
have to be right, Like it could be you want
to exercise, it could be you want to cook. It
could be you want to watch TV. It could be
you want to scroll on Instagram. But if it's something
(11:07):
that you want to do, there's definitely time in the
day to do it. It might not be while you're
nursing twins like that might not be the number one
priority in that moment, but for me it worked. I
nursed and then I bottle fed, so then I would
like put them on their little boppy pillows and then
I could still hold the bottles and still do the
nose thing as I was like feeding that.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
The image I'm never gonna I'm like, this is like
seared into my brain forever, is like twin on each
side and nose touching the kindle. I mean, I do
feel like that does illustrate a passion for reading that
is beyond average, That is amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So I guess they have these like clickers, Like, yes,
there's at that you can turn the page. I'm sure
there was then too, but I didn't have a hand
to close and still it with your nose exactly, so
like it's still.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
When someone was like, oh, you could have used a clicker,
I'm like, I.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Mean with one hand, I'm still down your foot your foot,
I guess, but like I I think you have to.
I don't know if my toes are that strong. I
could have also just done audiobooks in that time. I
don't know why I didn't think of that, but a
lot going on.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
No, but maybe you wanted the process of like because
it is like a different I don't know, ye like
puts you in a different kind of headspace. Maybe it
was especially relaxing to be able.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To Yeah, I don't know. I can't really quite get
back there mentally.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I'm so impressed. Well, let's fast forward to today and
I know you have a show, but like, let's pretend
you sort of didn't have a show. How do you
curate your reading or how do you recommend that others
curate your reading or don't. Like, should people just be
like pure whatever strikes them at that moment, Like, what
are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
I mean, I think it really depends on why you
want to read. What I do want to say is like,
I think folks should be intentional with their reading. They
should be thinking about who the authors are, Like what
if they're you know, from marginalized backgrounds, maybe they have
a disability, maybe it's queer authors. There are books that
are fantastic by all sorts of people from all over
(13:02):
the world, written in all sorts of languages, many of
which have been translated into English. So if you don't
speak I don't know Russian, you could probably still read
a great Russian novel in English, you know. But with
that being said, I think you should go with what
excites you. I think that if you see a book
in the bookstore and you're like, that cover is calling my.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Name, I think you should probably just read that book.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
And if you hate it, what I really think more
than anything is you should put it down. I do
not subscribe to the idea that you should force yourself
to finish a book.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I have to because it's my job.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
But like you do not have to unless it's your job, right,
Like even if for your book club, you don't have
to finish it, like your friends might be like, uh,
you didn't finish the book again, and then you can say, well,
I thought it was bad, and then you can have
a conversation about it. And that's a great thing for
a book club. Like there's no homework assignment, there's no
book report. And also just because you put a book
(13:55):
down doesn't mean you might not go back to it
at another time. I think people feel like, oh, I
bought this and it was expensive, and books are expensive,
and so I understand that, but that will not help
you read more feeling stuck with the book. That won't
help as far as like curating it. I like to
read what I like to read. Even now for my show,
I still read a lot of books just because I
(14:16):
want to read them that never appear on the show
because I'm excited about them or I'm interested, or I'm
curious or for whatever reason. And I think if you're reading,
as long as you take sort of the should out
of your reading life, I think for the most part,
you'll be successful.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No that makes sense. Do you have like a certain
number of pages that you recommend, like you know you
said if you hate a book. But I personally do
struggle with abandoning books, not because I have some moral
obligation to finish, but because like I'll get to some
point and be like, oh, well, I'm so close, like
maybe it'll get better, like I've invested this much, Like
I don't know, so tell me, like, yeah, is a
(14:52):
rule of thumb for you.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I don't have a specific number of pages, but generally
I can tell there very early if I like something
or I don't like something. I read a lot of
nonfiction that's what I personally really love, and with a
lot of nonfiction books, after the introduction, I can kind.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Of be like, oh, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Because sometimes you know, like they lay out what the
book's going to be in the introduction, so a lot
of times I'm like, Okay, I think I got everything
I needed to get from this. With fiction, sort of,
if it doesn't grab me in the first like ten pages,
I usually will put it down. Sometimes if it's come
highly recommended from someone and they say, like the beginning's
very slow, I'll give it more. And sometimes they're right
(15:34):
and it picks up and I love it, and sometimes
I'm like, no, this whole book is slow. I'm done,
And you know, sometimes like I'll start a book and
I'll like it, and then I'll put it down because
I'm just like, oh, I have something else to like.
It just didn't quite capture me. But I definitely don't
have any really strict like numbers because it also depends
on a book. Fifty pages and a two hundred and
(15:55):
fifty page book is pretty deep into the book. Fifty
pages into a five hundred page boo book is still
pretty early, you know, So it just depends on what
the book is and how it feels. I would say,
just trust yourself. If you're in it and you're like
I don't want to do this anymore, I think you
could not do it anymore, and again you.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Could go back.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I went back to a book that I didn't finish
last year and I finished it this year, and I
was like, oh my god, this is one of the
best things I read, Like it was so good.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
It was just trying to read it in October last year,
which is a really busy time for me. And I
picked it up in January and I finished it so quickly,
and I loved it. And sometimes that could be like
a year's long process, Like I go back to a
book four or five years later. Actually, the book that
I was reading when I got induced with my boys,
I put down to read like a book about sleep training.
(16:41):
And I just finished it this year and I loved it,
and it was one of my favorite books, and it's
by one of my favorite authors.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
But I just like, I need to.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keys. They just made it
into a TV show.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
And I had read like the first one hundred and
fifty pages and then I had to go get induced,
you know, like I was just like this is and
it's a book about the troubles in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It just like was not exactly when I needed.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
In the moment.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And then I got so busy and so many things
happened and I just never felt called to it. And
then I went to Ireland this summer and so I
brought it with me and I went back and I
started it over and I finished it and so quickly,
and I just loved it. It's like one of my
favorite books. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So just because you.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Put something down doesn't mean that you can't go back
to it when it feels right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I feel like that also takes the pressure off of
abandoning it, like yeah, like it doesn't have to be forever,
it's just like right now. And I'm hearing that you
probably err on the side of leaving earlier than maybe
some people do. Yes, And I need to take your
advice because for me, I can't even admit to myself
that I don't like something. I'll just know because I'm stuck. Like,
if I like it, I'll be reading it. If I'm
(17:46):
not reading it, I probably don't like it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That's exactly right. That's I'm always telling people.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I'm just like, just if you're not liking it, if
you're not reading it, if it feels like homework, just
put it down.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, then it's not for now.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Oh my gosh. A right, we're gonna take a quick break.
We're gonna be back talking about lots more reading stuff.
All right, We are back, And I love planning and
(18:18):
tracking things. And I always make testated, okay, good about
how different people who read a lot and I don't
read as much as you. I'm more in like the
forty to fifty So that's a lot less onerous. But
how do you track your reading?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Oh my gosh, I track my reading in so many
different ways it's actually getting to be like obscene. So
first and foremost, I have a reading track or spreadsheet
that I have built over the last I mean, I
keep changing it every year. I update and change it.
But it's just like a Google sheet. It's actually something
that I offer. I have a Patreon and it's a
(18:51):
perk that I offer to my patrons in December and
January of every year, and it's like you can only
get it then and then it goes away for the
next year. But it has title, it has author, it
has like the imprint and the publisher. It has how
many pages, it has how I read it. It has
my Scott Star reading. It has what country they're from,
if it's in translation, who the editor.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It has like.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Every possible little detail you could need for a book.
I think for like a general reader it's probably too much,
but for me it's really helpful to go back and see,
like what I was reading. There's also a page, so
that's like the first page is just raw data. Then
the second page it's like a little chart and it
fills in the percentages, like what percent, and then there's
a page for each year, so the twenty twenty four
(19:34):
stats doing twenty three stets goes all the way back.
Then there's a page for what we call TBR, which
is a to b read list, and that's where I
enter every single book that comes into my home, so
I know, because I get sent a lot of books
for my job, so I know, and by a lot,
I mean like four hundred to seven hundred a year,
just depending on the year. Like it's a lot of
too many to read, but also too many to even
(19:55):
know what I have, And so it's helpful for me
to put it in a spreadsheet because sometimes I'll get
pitched a book and then I will forget about it,
and then six months.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Later it'll be up for like a literary award, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Like, oh, let me see if I have that, and
I can go back to the spreadsheet and find it,
because otherwise it's like my brain cannot obviously handle. So
there's all these different tabs. We do a reading challenge
in the stack, so there's a tab for the reading
challenge for your anyways, it's it's great fun. I also
use story graph, which is an alternative to Goodreads, which
I love. It's less social media e it's much more
(20:25):
reading tracking. But also there's tabs where you can do
reading challenges, so you can set up a challenge, maybe
like if your book club wants to set up a challenge,
and you can put all twelve of the books in,
and then you can say, like which ones you've read,
and you can see what other people are doing, and
that's really fun. I also use Goodreads still too, mainly
because I know that bookstores use the ratings on Goodreads
(20:48):
to help kind of know what's exciting and what they
should be stocking, and so I want to make sure
that I'm like part of that process as someone who
cares deeply about making sure books are getting into people's hands.
And then I also have a little notes app where
I have all the books i've just finished, just the
title to know if I've actually posted a review about
them on my Instagram or not. So every time I
finish a book, I have to go to four places
(21:09):
to enter information, which is why I'm like, it's getting
out of control, and I think I probably will be
leaving Goodreads completely very very soon. I don't love it there,
and it's just an extra thing. But at the moment,
I haven't quite made. Maybe I'm done in twenty twenty five.
Maybe that's the plan.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well, I'm impressed that you have your data so many
and I'm very jealous because I did not start tracking
my books until twenty twenty, and I'm so sad about it.
I'm like, how can you go back? And I read
in my life, how can I go back? I mean,
I don't know what I read when I was like
twenty seven, Like it's been a while.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
So I started my tracker in twenty sixteen. When I
started that, like twelve books, yes, in the year. So
I have previous titles on my Goodreads that I read
from a long time ago, but I don't have those
entered in the tracker because I don't have years.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I still might go back because there are books that
I read loved that are not in my tracker that
I sort of wish were.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So I don't know, but you can go back.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I think tracking is like a relatively I don't want
to say new, like not new like this year, but
like in twenty ten, no one was like tracking. They're
reading like it's so people.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Were I know people were people who have grandmothers, like
when they died, they found journals that were just like
lists of every book they ever read. I know, I
thought that was so cool and like the year they
read them. So I think some people were, but I
do think you're right that was not like as gamified
and like social media. I think I got on good
(22:38):
Reads in about two thousand and nine, and so that's
when I started sort of keeping track, but I didn't
start the spreadsheet till twenty I think I started the
spreadsheet in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Actually, well, your spreadsheet sounds amazing. I may have to
check out your Patreon just for the spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
It's more a thing, I'm telling you, it's it is
the greatest part of my life. Every time I finish
a book, I'm like, I get to put it in
the tracker.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
That is amazing. All right, Well, reading mediums you mentioned
you like audio, you like Kindle, you like paper. I
mostly read on paper. I'm like weird, and I'm mix
of buying stuff and getting from the library because well
I'm in Roward County, Florida, and like we have a
great like people from not from here, apparently like can
get into our system, but we have like I can
get almost anything I want on paper pretty quickly. I mean,
(23:21):
there's a few really hot titles where there's a decent
sized waiting list, but I actually think it's better than
most places, so I feel spoiled that way. But yeah,
how do you choose a format for a given book?
Although I guess I know you get a lot of
books sent, so that might too skew the data here.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I also love my library. I mostly use my library
for audiobooks and ebooks like I've never I can say
I have purchased some audiobooks, but I have never purchased
an ebook in my.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Life, except for that's not true.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
One an independent author who I love, I've bought her
romance novel, But other than that, I've never purchased because
I have a library system that I love as well
as far as what I'm going to read. If I'm
making the decision for myself, I'm usually reading fiction on
paper or with my eyes, whether that's kindle or physical book,
(24:11):
And if it's pretty dense nonfiction the same, I'm usually
listening to memoirs or very narrative nonfiction. That's just how
my brain works. But sometimes I'm reading a book physical
and kindle at the same time, or audio and physical
at the same time. Not literally at the same time,
but like I might be making dinner and I put
(24:33):
the audiobook on, and then when I sit down to
read at night, I go find the book and I
go find what page I'm on. I jokingly say that
I'm a one book pony, which just means that I
can pretty much only read one book at a time.
That's not exactly true, because I can do one on
audio and one with my eyes, but I'm not You'll
it would be so rare that I would actually be
(24:53):
actively reading two different books at the same time in
the same format. I pretty much just power through one
as I go. I know people who have books in
different rooms, Like their night time book in their bedroom
is one book, and then they have a book that
they read like on the couch in the evenings or
in the mornings. Not me, it's one book all day
until it's done.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I was gonna ask you that question. That's so interesting.
I'm I have to have one fiction and one nonfiction
at all times generally, Like I don't go beyond that,
but like for me, there's such different like reading, they're
almost like not related, like yeah, experience.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How do you decide which one you're going to read?
Or where? Like is it a physical location or is
it a time of.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Day or yeah, like my nonfiction is morning reading, like
that's how I start my day and then I'm usually
done with it for the day, like it's rare that
I would pick it up again. And then fiction is
like any other time, like for fun, like at lunch
or like when I'm going to bed or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
But yeah, what kind of nonfiction?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
A mix of stuff, but some memoirs a lot of
like personal development, like but it more on the like
I don't know, like cal Newport or like well, Lauravanerkam
is the co host of this podcast, and I got
into her stuff for a reason. I love it. But
authors in that realm, which I often end up reading
also kind of for work since I have this podcast
and then bestlaid plans. So yeah, all right, but back
(26:07):
to you.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Sorry, podcasters can't help themselves asking no questions, Like I've
been biting my tongue and asking you so many questions
so that I had to get those off though I'm done.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I'm done, And you saw on my face when you
said you only read one book at once, and I
think I was shocked because I was just like, oh,
she's a reading person and she likes to just power
through one. I never would have thought that so very interesting.
I'm going to pivot a little bit because i want
to talk about reading and kids. Now, your kids, not
you reading with kids, but like helping the kids read.
So your kids are five, and what are your reading
(26:40):
practices with them now? And what are tips for cultivating
or reading habit in your children.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We read every day at bedtime.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
They don't read yet, and I am really nervous to
pressure them to read, Like I've been very sort of
hands off in reading, Like I think other parents are
probably more active at this age with reading. But I'm
like too scared for them to like resent it because
(27:11):
it is my job. So I think I'm maybe like
over correcting the other way. Like they know all their letters,
they know all their sounds, but when I try to
have them like put it together, and then they're like
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm like, Okay, don't do it. It's fine. Nobody who
reads readings for losers. It's fine, it's fine. But they
love books.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
They love books like they get so they each get
to pick a book at bedtime that I read to them.
And if we're really running late, sometimes we have to
agree on one book only, like all three of us
have to agree on one book, and that is always
like the worst.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Like it's like I.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Want to pick a book, this one, picked the book,
this one. Like if we can get the two books
in or a bonus book, that's always great.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So mostly we.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Read picture books, but recently we started reading a chapter
a night from sometimes from certain chapter books. So like
we were reading Charlotte's Web. We were listening in the
car to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on audio. They
were really into that. On longer drives, Trevor Noah has
this great new book called Into the Uncut Grass. It's
really small, it's for like teeny tiny chapters, but it's
(28:09):
so I'm like obsessed with that. I'm telling everybody it's
so good. And they just really i mean, they just
really like to be read to, and they like to
ask questions and tell me about what they're seeing, what's
happening in the book.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, And do you have a process for picking books
for them or like a favorite resource you go to
to find kids books, No, I.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Mean at this point now they like to pick books
when we go to the bookstore. And one of the
things I do is every time I go on a
trip because I have to travel for work, is I
always bring back a book for each person. And so
that's like a fun, fun way for me to find
new books because I'm usually going to bookstores in my
travels and sometimes I get sent books from publishers. I
(28:49):
have some people on social media that I follow who
talk about kids books, but mostly I'm sort of just
like peruising, and we go to the library a lot,
so that's also a good way to discover new authors.
And usually when we go, everyone gets to pick two
or three books, including me, so we end up with
and if my husband goes, you know, another, so we
end up with like eight to twelve books for like
(29:09):
kids books for a library trip, and then that's enough
to kind of rotate and if we find any favorites,
we might go back and see if that author has
other you know, so the same way that I do
with adult books, sort of just recommendations if I've seen
it somewhere, going to the library, asking friends, whatever, looks
exciting all of that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We had the best library routine last year because one
of my kids had a piano teacher that was like
right by the library. We would go every week. And
I'm like, that's why we don't have library books anymore,
because we just switch piano teachers. Oh, but I agree
that regular visitation is so helpful and unlike me, like
when I go to the library, I'm just picking up
my holds, you know, But with them, I want them
to browse and like choose, so that sane really makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's exactly when I go, I'm just in and out.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I have to go this afternoon, I'm gonna walk over there,
pick up my books and get out. But yes, with them,
we go sit in like the little kids room and
they get to pick.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
When we go to the a bookstore, they'll pull books
off the shelf like they're at the library. But at
the library they tell you to just leave them on
the table and the librarians put them away.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
But at the bookstore, I'm like, where did you get that?
We have to put it back. It's like different vibes,
different vibes.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
All right, we're going to take one more break and
we are going to be back with some tips on
maybe fitting in more reading or getting out of a slump.
All right, we are back, and I definitely have my
(30:34):
own reading slump in the end of twenty twenty four
kind of like started with some stressful stuff around August
in September and had trouble recovering. And I know that
it's a common like New Year's goal for people to
read more. So what would you suggest for someone either
in a reading slump or who is trying to build
up the habits of reading more? And maybe those are
(30:55):
two different things.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yeah, I say those are two really different things to me.
I'm going to start with the reading slum. If you
are in a reading slump now more than ever, pick
up things that you really want to read, not that
thing that you bought last time at the store or
the thing that the hold is going to be up
on soon from the library. That book that you have
been dying to read, that everyone is talking about, that
(31:19):
you're so excited about. That is the only thing that
will get you out of a reading slump. The other
option is to avoid your books like the Plague, watch
every TV show that you've ever wanted to watch until
you feel like you're excited to read books again. I
had a horrible reading slump when Love is Blind was
on and I was like, I gotta read, I gotta read,
and I was like, you know what, I'm just going
(31:39):
to watch all of Love is Blind. And I did,
and I bounce back with my best reading month ever.
So like it just I think, like, Okay, you're in
a reading slump. Great, who cares?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You'll go back, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Like even when I was in a reading slump, which
is different because I have to read for work, I
still was like, I hate reading. I hate every book
I read, and it was miserable for like I had
like two or three this year. Actually it was a
really hard reading year for me.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But you get out of it. You bounce back.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Something exciting comes along and it takes you right out
of it as far as wanting to read more. So
this is still my reading goal every single year. I
started doing this about four years ago and I do
it every single year.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
My only reading goal is to read ten pages a day.
That is my only goal. And I know it's all crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I'm interrupting you, because that's the goal I set for
twenty twenty five, Like it's already been announced on the podcast,
so no one will think I copied. That's okay, keep going,
that's hilarious. Actually it was ten minutes for me, but
keep going.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Ten minutes okay. So I'm a slow reader. Ten minutes
will get me like three pages, and I'm like, I
can't be efective. Ten pages for me is probably about
more like twenty minutes of reading time. And I think
it's a perfect goal because it's quantifiable, it is easy
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's not a pain.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
It's not even not even running a mile, right, It's
not difficult. It's just a matter of sitting down and
doing it. When I started reading ten pages a day
as a goal, I started reading even more than what
I was already reading a lot, because it makes it
a practice.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And if you do the.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Math, ish we're talking about like three thousand, six hundred
and fifty pages in the year, which is approximately going
to put you let's say every book is three hundred pages,
like you're looking at ten to twelve books in the year.
But the real reason that this goal, I think it
worked for me so well, is that once you start
reading ten pages, you're not gonna want to stop at
(33:38):
ten pages, right, Like, if you're picking the right books,
if the books are exciting too, if it's things you
want to read, you're going to sit down for those
ten pages and you're gonna be like, I have a
little extra time, I'm gonna read more. And like, some
days I truly only read ten pages. Some days I
only get to like three pages or zero pages. I mean,
it happens. But then some days I read two hundred
pages in the day. But the thing is like having
(34:00):
the goal be low and achievable, I think is really important,
especially if you're trying to get back into reading or
you are just like I want to read a little
bit more, but I'm not really a reader. Something like
that is really doable. I also think one book a
month is also like a doable goal, or depending on
how much you read, maybe it's one a week whatever,
but like something that's super duper quantifiable. Did I do
(34:22):
this yes or no? Because like reading more not like,
how do you know if you're reading more?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Totally two be So yeah, That's what I was saying.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
And then the other thing I say for people who
like are struggling to read or like finding time is
to I mean, I'm not as intense to be like
put it on your calendar. But if that's like I
don't know some people, you know, some people put their
workouts on their calendar. Some people put having sex with
their partner on their calendar. So like, depending on who
you are, maybe that's helpful. But to me, I think
just when it's time to read, going on airplane mode
(34:53):
is huge. Making sure you have your snacks and beverages,
your blankets, you have gone to the bathroom, all of
the things that are the thing that will make you
get up and stop reading. Make sure you've taken care
of those things first and then sit down to read.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Really really, really, really really important. If you have young
kids and like maybe you're trying to sneak in reading
when they're out of the house, maybe they're with their sitter,
or maybe they're with your partner, maybe they're at school.
What I do is I have a do not disturb
mode that is for sort of reading time that allows
for those people to get through to me. Otherwise nobody
(35:28):
else can. So if you're worried about that, like you
can customize your phone to give you a do not
disturb that allows for any people that you might need
to talk to, you know, so, and you can have
like a special one that's just for reading.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yes, reading mode. I love it, Yeah, I love it. Well.
We usually do a Love of the Week, which is, like,
you name something that makes you happy this week, but
I thought it might be more fun for you to
share as of now. This is mean, but your top
three books for twenty twenty four? Can you or okay,
just three books you loved in twenty twenty four? There
you go, I can.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
I can share three of my favorite books. My problem
is that this year there were two books that were
sort of like the most beloved books by everybody in
the world, and like they're up for all the awards,
and so I'm just gonna say them because I too
loved these books, but everybody's talking about them, and so
I feel like, let's not waste time with them. One
is called James by Percival Everett, and the other is
called Martyr by Cave.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Akbar Love Love, Love, Love Love. Okay, I'm with everybody.
They're great done. My favorite nonfiction.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Book so far or like overall this year is a
book called Challenger by Adam Higginbotham. It's about the Challenger
disaster in nineteen eighty six. It is so riveting. It's
one of those books where you know the ending and
you're still like, what's gonna happen? Like, how did this
spaceshift take off? It's so fascinating. I will do one
(36:48):
small disclaimer. I did not think this, but a lot
of people told me that the first section they thought
was a little bit slow because it's a little bit sciency.
So if you're a person who's like, should I keep going, yes,
get to part two, I'm part three, and you're gonna
be like sick to your stomach because you cannot believe
what's happening. So that's a book I loved this year.
He also wrote the Chernobyl book that got turned into
that Chernobyl TV show on HBO. The book's called Midnight
(37:11):
in Chernobyl.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
He's great.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Another book that I loved this year is a book
called Colored Television by Danzy Senna. She's so funny and
I just absolutely I am obsessed with her. It's about
this woman named Jane. It's a novel, and Jane is
a professor and she's trying to write her second book.
But it's a failure and it's about Jane's mixed race
and it's about being mixed, and she's like, I'm going
to sell out.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I'm going to go to Hollywood.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
She goes to write the great like Mixed TV show,
and it's just all about her extremely bad decisions. Danzy
is like an author who writes main characters who a
lot of people think are unlikable. I love them, but
they make bad choices, Like the whole book, You're just
like Jane girl, do not do that, don't Jane.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I hate this for y'all. And then.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Last book I'll pick is, let's see, I did nonfiction.
I did fiction.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Do you want me to do essays? Or do you
want me to do memoir?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Deep, let's have a memoir. I need to mate.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
This memoir is called Another Word for Love by Carvel Wallace.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It is so good.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Carvell Wallace is a black queer person from the Bay Area,
or actually they're from the East Coast.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
They live in LA. They live in the Bay Area.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
The first part of the book is about their childhood
and sort of the trauma that they experienced their mother
dealed with like houselessness, and it's a lot of kind
of difficult, heavy stuff, and then as the book goes on,
Carvell sort of imagines these other possibilities around healing and
redemption and reconciliation. It's just so beautifully written. It's so smart,
(38:46):
it's so tender. When I first started the book, I
was sort of like, this is really good writing, like
this feels like every other sort of trauma memoir, And
as you keep going, you're just like, whoa, I am
blown away by the way that this memoir was transformed,
by the way that this author has transformed their thinking.
It's just so powerful and so beautiful. So that's another
(39:07):
word for love by Carvel Wallace.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
And that sounds awesome. All right, Maybe one of those
will get me out of my slum. Oh my gosh, Tracy,
this has been so so delightful. So remind our listeners
where they can find you, including that very tantalizing spreadsheet
you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Yes, okay, so you can find me at the Stacks
pod on Instagram. And the podcast is called The Stacks.
It comes out every Wednesday, so wherever you get your podcasts.
And then if you want to support the work that
I do, I have a Patreon. It's Patreon dot com
slash the Stacks. If you join in December or January,
you have access to the Reading Tracker. It'll get sent
(39:43):
to you. It'll be posted sometime in December, sometime soon,
and then yeah, that's that you can and I have
a website. The Stacks podcast will all the places. If
you go to any of the places, you'll be able
to find all the other places because that's how internet works.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So yes, the Stacks find it.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for coming on, Tracy.
This was a blast.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Thank you for having me. Well, that was great.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you so much, Sarah and Tracy for that discussion
of reading. So this week's question comes from a listener
who says you both seem to take weekends away with
your husband's I mean, I hear about this less from Laura,
but it seems like it happens. My question is how
do you deal with childcare in this situation? It seems
like your nanny sometimes covers. Does she sleep at your house?
(40:31):
What do you pay for the weekend relative to an
hourly rate? Do your grandparents ever cover? With a big family,
I now have three kids under six, do you ever
split up the kids to make it easier on the
childcare provider. This person says that she and her husband
were pretty good about this when they had one kid,
maybe even two, but three seems like nobody wants to
take over for forty eight hours, So, Sarah, what is
(40:52):
your answer there?
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, so we do usually hire our nanny to do this.
I'm not going to go into total payment specific, but
you can pay a lower rate for overnights. You just
have to legally make sure that you're at least paying
a minimum wage, so you can't be like when the
kids are sleeping it's free, like they're still working, and
you have to be paying something. So we worked it out.
(41:14):
It's not the full full regular rate, but it's definitely
extra above what she would get into normal week and
meets those criteria. She will often stay at our house
because it's just easier if the kids have activities, or
she'll take them to her house for a night, And
we have in the past also had grandparents help, not
by sending all three there, but like sending one kid
(41:35):
with the grandparents and then her taking the other two
and the other kind of share the load. Option would
be like if one of one friend had like maybe
your oldest has a really close friend and they could
just have a sleepover. Because the older kids get, the
easier it is to just kind of host another kid,
so it's not a huge burden for you know, your
next door neighbor with a similar age kid to take
your twelve year old, for example. So yeah, I mean
(41:57):
I love going away with my husband. We try to
do it twice a year, so it's not like this
is a happening all the time kind of a thing.
But I just think it's so good for our relationship
when we do it, and I look forward to them
and want to keep doing it. Yeah, well, I can
say we don't do it that frequently.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I mean, we've done three since Henry was born, and
those have all been in the last year, So I
guess we're getting better at it now as the kids
are getting older. But we need to hire overnight coverage.
But we had overnight cover, you know, we have it
during the week as an option because that's always something
we've built into our agreements with our nannies that they
would be available for that. Because I travel for work,
(42:35):
my husband travels for work, we need coverage that could
be overnight. So we tend actually to hire different people
though for the weekends, just as a matter of keeping
ours reasonable. You know, we have other people that we
have hired for the weekend, and you just you know,
negotiate a rate like anything else, like this for the
(42:58):
hours that we assume the kids are and then this
is the overnight rate, and that's how you do it.
But yeah, I totally sympathize that it is hard to
get anyone to cover for large families. You know, grandparents
may have been fine with one kid, but five kids
makes it a little harder on anyone to manage the chaos,
(43:19):
even if some of the kids are older. And so yeah,
that is the kind of a drawback of the larger
family is the ability for you guys to get away
to gather.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
This is actually the hardest thing.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It is not hard for one parent to get away,
and so I often encourage people to trade off with
their partners so each of you get time away to
do fun stuff. But of course the two of you
to gather is the hardest of all of that, since
you don't have a readily available person.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
So empathizing here totally, and in some ways I do
feel like the challenges kind of seem to get more
so when the kids are old, I mean they're easier
in the way that you could send them to a neighbor,
and they're harder in a way that like the kids
have more stuff and so like for example, when we
just left, the kids had like a soccer tournament and
then the restraumatics it was piano and like you know,
(44:06):
our Nanni was one person managing all of that. And
that's a lot. Of course, our kids could skip an
activity every once in a while and they wouldn't know,
no disaster, what would happen. But it just logistics become
a little bit more complex when the kids are older.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Sometimes exactly all right, Well, this has been best of
both worlds. Sarah has been interviewing Tracy Thomas of The Stacks.
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you can.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has
been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us
next time for more on making work and life work together.
Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,
and speaker.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
And I'm Sarah hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer,
and course creator. We are two working parents who love
our careers and our families.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about
how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.
From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Term career goals.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We want you to get the most out of life.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This
episode is.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Airing in mid January of twenty twenty five. Sarah is
going to be interviewing Tracy Thomas from The Stacks Podcast.
They're going to be talking all things reading. I know
a lot of people are looking to achieve various reading
goals in the new year, or else just have a
good reading habit in their lives. We're going to be
finding out lots of ideas from her. So, Sarah, how
(01:05):
was your reading year last year? Like in twenty twenty four,
it was.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Great for about seven months and then it just fell
into a hole. And I think it was just a
mix of life stressors, picking the wrong novel that I
got stuck on and writing a lot, because when you're
writing a lot, it is a little bit harder for
me to consume so many words as I'm trying to
produce so many words.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I would say it was not a great reading
year for me either. I mean, I read some good books.
I went on a kick of reading about the ancient Earth,
so I now know the history of Earth from like
when life was first appearing six hundred maybe even seven
hundred million years ago, in the various extinctions that occurred
along the way.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
It's kind of fascinating. Really.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I could go in a whole tangent about the fact
that you haven't found the fossils doesn't mean there wasn't anything.
It just means that maybe animals were of the form
that didn't fossilize. The beginning is the time moves backward.
Let's just say the time keeps moving backward. So funny
thing with that. Anyway, I read very little else. I
(02:12):
I read about the ancient Earth and like nothing else.
But you know, it's just it was something that had
to go. I've had a lot of other things going on.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I don't know. You're writing a lot too. You wrote
a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I'm writing a lot too, like I'm writing a lot.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Yeah, it might be. I wonder how many words you
wrote in twenty twenty or I bet it was like
just because of your substance, like it was a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, well, between substocks and the book for Breakfast, the book,
everything else, blogging, other newsletters.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Maybe I should pare all this.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Down some, but you know whatever, it's fine.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
I like it.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
I like it, But you know, I did you do
you track what you read? I did in twenty seventeen
and twenty eighteen. Those years I kept a reading log.
I have stopped doing that.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
I have tracked every year since I believe twenty twenty,
and there might even be if I mind my blog,
I think there might even be some earlier years. But
I regret this actually, Like I'm so jealous of people
who have good Reads going back fifteen years or however
long Goodreads has existed for, or who have a notebook
of like every book they've read since they were twenty
(03:16):
or something like that. I feel like I would have
loved to have that kind of artifact, and I absolutely don't.
But yeah, since twenty twenty, they're all twenty twenty through
twenty twenty three, I think are on my blog, and
then in twenty twenty four I just went on paper,
so I need to immortalize that somehow, and then we'll see.
I think I'm gonna go back to posting them in
twenty twenty five. Okay, well that sounds good.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah. I posted little reviews on my website for a
while and then kind of stopped doing that. Too many
things stopped after I don't know twenty eight, I just
stopped posting anything related to books. Do you have a
TVR list though, Do you like keep track of what
you want to read?
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like from time to time. I'll make one sometimes when
I'm doing my seasonal planning. It's not at all a like,
I'm not trying to read them all. I'm not trying
to only read books from that list. I need to
have more looseness and like, if I hear a review
that sounds awesome and I want to like order it
right then and there and read that, that's totally fine.
But I think it helps me strategize my library holds,
(04:13):
and then whether I actually read all of those can vary,
but I would say three out of five seasons of
the year quintiles, I do make a TBR list.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, so I kind of just if I see a
book that I want to read, i'd like take a
picture of it, or I write it down or email
it to myself, and then when I'm looking for something
to read, if I have those, I will often download
the sample on Kindle first. And that's just because I've
been I mean, it's sort of the equivalent of like
(04:42):
checking it out from the library, because it's free for
that part, and then you can test it out. And
I do buy the vast majority of the books that
I've downloaded the sample from, but I've been saved from
a few purchases from things that sounded excellent and then
within the first like three pages, as like this person
is no, no, this is not going to be one
thing I'm going to want to read it. So good
(05:02):
to know that you would have known that maybe if
you read the first few pages in Barnes and Noble
and you just don't know that necessarily online. I mean,
I guess they do sometimes supposed to first pages. That's
my life hack I've mentioned that I'm sure many times,
is download the sample, see if you like it, and
then you can really quickly order it.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
The nice thing is. I feel like that also provides
a really kind of It points out that there's a
cut point at which you are actively deciding to continue
or not, which for somebody like me who has trouble like,
it's not that I don't want to abandon books, it's
just that I'll get past a certain point and feel like, oh, well,
if I've invested this much like I should. But I mean,
if I've only had the sample, you have this limited
(05:39):
number and then you're like, is it yes or is
it no?
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Yeah, and you almost every time could no ten to
fifteen percent in if you're going to want to read
this book. I mean, it's true, I would imagine usually
we're good by that point. But I'm excited to hear
what Tracy has to say. So here's Tracy Thomas from
The Stacks.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, I am so excited to welcome Tracy to the podcast.
She is the host of The Stacks, which she'll tell
us all about and I am so inspired by her
reading life and I'm sure you will be as well.
Welcome Tracy, Hi, thank you for having me. Well, today
we're going to talk all things books and reading, which
I know is on the top of many people's minds
(06:16):
as we're entering a new year, reading goals are very common.
Let's start with the fact that, well, we don't have
the total number of books you read last year, Tracy,
but it was at least one hundred and ten in
like November. So where are we?
Speaker 4 (06:31):
So it's December as we're recording this, and I am
at Let me pull up my spreadsheet.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I am at one thirty one thirty.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
That is amazing thirty four one. Before you assume that
Tracy like must have lots of free time, we will
also note that she has five year old twins.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Ay sure Dale, Ay sure Dale.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
All right, so I obviously part of it probably has
to do with your career choice that you are a
book podcaster, but I'm super interested in your reading journey,
like did you always read that much? And did your
reading change when you entered the parenting phase?
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Okay, so no, I did not always read one hundred
plus books in my life a year.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
No no, no, no, that's because this is my job.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
I did always love to read, and sort of the
origin story of the podcast and also just like reading
background is that I used to live in New York.
I used to read a ton in New York. I
read a ton as a kid. After I graduated college
and was living in New York, I was like, I
want to read more. So I started reading more for fun.
And then when I moved to LA in twenty twelve,
I like stopped reading completely because there was no subway
(07:40):
to read on. Life is just very different in LA
than in New York. And so in twenty sixteen, I
was like, I'm going to read a book a month.
That's my goal. I'm going to like knock it out.
I finished that, I thought I was the new like
champion of the world. I was like, send me my
Pulitzer Prize.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I am a winner. And then in.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Twenty seven I was like, I'm going to read thirteen books.
I ended up reading twenty four books because I sort
of like hit my stride. And then in twenty eighteen
I started the show, and that year I ended up
reading eighty nine books. So obviously you can see there
was a large jump in my reading from when I
was just reading sort of for pleasure to get back
in reading, and then when reading sort of became my life.
Speaker 3 (08:21):
But then I'm doing the math, So then you got pregnant.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Yeah, I got pregnant. My kids were born in December
twenty nineteen. Yeah, so twenty nineteen I read like one
hundred books, and then in twenty twenty, I think I
read ninety five, so.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Not too much less.
Speaker 4 (08:41):
But I was still working and doing the show, so
I didn't have a lot of room to like cut
back on reading. Also, like a pandemic happened in twenty twenty,
which really shook things up. It was like a very
People always ask me, They're like, oh, what was it
like having like baby newborn twins, And I'm like, I
cannot separate that from a major global pandemic because they
(09:04):
were premature. They were three months not even when COVID started,
So like the whole thing is just all tied up
in and I haven't really unpacked that yet.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
Super interesting, Well, from a pure logistics standpoint, it's twenty twenty.
You have twin babies, which still blows my mind. I
have three children, but like they're spaced out. I've never
had two babies at once, and my mind, I'm always
just so in awe of twin moms. But you had
your two babies, and how did you fit in your reading?
Even though it's your job I mean, when did you
(09:36):
do it? Was it like you would nurse and read
and like tell me a little bit about like how
cause I'm sure your amount of quote free time probably
did change.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
Yeah, I mean so I read still now and back
then in a lot of different ways and at a
lot of different times. So I read physical books, I
read audiobooks, and I read off a kindle. When I
was nursing my boys, I had on each breast and
I would sit so that my legs were sort of crossed,
(10:05):
and then I would put my kindle on my knee,
and then I would bend over with my nose and
touch my nose to the kindle to turn the bag,
which is like so so silly, but that's how I
could do it, Like it made the most sense. It
was like also one of the most calm times in
my day, right, like besides naptime, which is when I
(10:25):
got a lot of work done, but also during nap
time I was recording episodes of the show. I would
have these like two hour chunks of time where I
could like record something or write something or get reading
done or whatever. So I was in the beginning when
they were still taking like three naps in the daytime hours.
I was like, this is great, I have these like
like six hours to work. But yeah, I also used
(10:46):
to go on these really long walks and I would
listen to my audio books on these really long walks.
So you know, I always tell parents, you can read.
There is enough time for you to read. It's just
a matter if that's your priority, Like it does it
have to be right, Like it could be you want
to exercise, it could be you want to cook. It
could be you want to watch TV. It could be
you want to scroll on Instagram. But if it's something
(11:07):
that you want to do, there's definitely time in the
day to do it. It might not be while you're
nursing twins like that might not be the number one
priority in that moment, but for me it worked. I
nursed and then I bottle fed, so then I would
like put them on their little boppy pillows and then
I could still hold the bottles and still do the
nose thing as I was like feeding that.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
The image I'm never gonna I'm like, this is like
seared into my brain forever, is like twin on each
side and nose touching the kindle. I mean, I do
feel like that does illustrate a passion for reading that
is beyond average, That is amazing.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
So I guess they have these like clickers, Like, yes,
there's at that you can turn the page. I'm sure
there was then too, but I didn't have a hand
to close and still it with your nose exactly, so
like it's still.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
When someone was like, oh, you could have used a clicker,
I'm like, I.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
Mean with one hand, I'm still down your foot your foot,
I guess, but like I I think you have to.
I don't know if my toes are that strong. I
could have also just done audiobooks in that time. I
don't know why I didn't think of that, but a
lot going on.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
No, but maybe you wanted the process of like because
it is like a different I don't know, ye like
puts you in a different kind of headspace. Maybe it
was especially relaxing to be able.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
To Yeah, I don't know. I can't really quite get
back there mentally.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
I'm so impressed. Well, let's fast forward to today and
I know you have a show, but like, let's pretend
you sort of didn't have a show. How do you
curate your reading or how do you recommend that others
curate your reading or don't. Like, should people just be
like pure whatever strikes them at that moment, Like, what
are your thoughts?
Speaker 4 (12:40):
I mean, I think it really depends on why you
want to read. What I do want to say is like,
I think folks should be intentional with their reading. They
should be thinking about who the authors are, Like what
if they're you know, from marginalized backgrounds, maybe they have
a disability, maybe it's queer authors. There are books that
are fantastic by all sorts of people from all over
(13:02):
the world, written in all sorts of languages, many of
which have been translated into English. So if you don't
speak I don't know Russian, you could probably still read
a great Russian novel in English, you know. But with
that being said, I think you should go with what
excites you. I think that if you see a book
in the bookstore and you're like, that cover is calling my.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Name, I think you should probably just read that book.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
And if you hate it, what I really think more
than anything is you should put it down. I do
not subscribe to the idea that you should force yourself
to finish a book.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
I have to because it's my job.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
But like you do not have to unless it's your job, right,
Like even if for your book club, you don't have
to finish it, like your friends might be like, uh,
you didn't finish the book again, and then you can say, well,
I thought it was bad, and then you can have
a conversation about it. And that's a great thing for
a book club. Like there's no homework assignment, there's no
book report. And also just because you put a book
(13:55):
down doesn't mean you might not go back to it
at another time. I think people feel like, oh, I
bought this and it was expensive, and books are expensive,
and so I understand that, but that will not help
you read more feeling stuck with the book. That won't
help as far as like curating it. I like to
read what I like to read. Even now for my show,
I still read a lot of books just because I
(14:16):
want to read them that never appear on the show
because I'm excited about them or I'm interested, or I'm
curious or for whatever reason. And I think if you're reading,
as long as you take sort of the should out
of your reading life, I think for the most part,
you'll be successful.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No that makes sense. Do you have like a certain
number of pages that you recommend, like you know you
said if you hate a book. But I personally do
struggle with abandoning books, not because I have some moral
obligation to finish, but because like I'll get to some
point and be like, oh, well, I'm so close, like
maybe it'll get better, like I've invested this much, Like
I don't know, so tell me, like, yeah, is a
(14:52):
rule of thumb for you.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
I don't have a specific number of pages, but generally
I can tell there very early if I like something
or I don't like something. I read a lot of
nonfiction that's what I personally really love, and with a
lot of nonfiction books, after the introduction, I can kind.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
Of be like, oh, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Because sometimes you know, like they lay out what the
book's going to be in the introduction, so a lot
of times I'm like, Okay, I think I got everything
I needed to get from this. With fiction, sort of,
if it doesn't grab me in the first like ten pages,
I usually will put it down. Sometimes if it's come
highly recommended from someone and they say, like the beginning's
very slow, I'll give it more. And sometimes they're right
(15:34):
and it picks up and I love it, and sometimes
I'm like, no, this whole book is slow. I'm done,
And you know, sometimes like I'll start a book and
I'll like it, and then I'll put it down because
I'm just like, oh, I have something else to like.
It just didn't quite capture me. But I definitely don't
have any really strict like numbers because it also depends
on a book. Fifty pages and a two hundred and
(15:55):
fifty page book is pretty deep into the book. Fifty
pages into a five hundred page boo book is still
pretty early, you know, So it just depends on what
the book is and how it feels. I would say,
just trust yourself. If you're in it and you're like
I don't want to do this anymore, I think you
could not do it anymore, and again you.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Could go back.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
I went back to a book that I didn't finish
last year and I finished it this year, and I
was like, oh my god, this is one of the
best things I read, Like it was so good.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
It just wasn't.
Speaker 4 (16:19):
It was just trying to read it in October last year,
which is a really busy time for me. And I
picked it up in January and I finished it so quickly,
and I loved it. And sometimes that could be like
a year's long process, Like I go back to a
book four or five years later. Actually, the book that
I was reading when I got induced with my boys,
I put down to read like a book about sleep training.
(16:41):
And I just finished it this year and I loved it,
and it was one of my favorite books, and it's
by one of my favorite authors.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
But I just like, I need to.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keys. They just made it
into a TV show.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's so good.
Speaker 4 (16:51):
And I had read like the first one hundred and
fifty pages and then I had to go get induced,
you know, like I was just like this is and
it's a book about the troubles in Ireland.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It just like was not exactly when I needed.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
In the moment.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
And then I got so busy and so many things
happened and I just never felt called to it. And
then I went to Ireland this summer and so I
brought it with me and I went back and I
started it over and I finished it and so quickly,
and I just loved it. It's like one of my
favorite books. It's so good.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
So just because you.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Put something down doesn't mean that you can't go back
to it when it feels right.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I feel like that also takes the pressure off of
abandoning it, like yeah, like it doesn't have to be forever,
it's just like right now. And I'm hearing that you
probably err on the side of leaving earlier than maybe
some people do. Yes, And I need to take your
advice because for me, I can't even admit to myself
that I don't like something. I'll just know because I'm stuck. Like,
if I like it, I'll be reading it. If I'm
(17:46):
not reading it, I probably don't like it.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
That's exactly right. That's I'm always telling people.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
I'm just like, just if you're not liking it, if
you're not reading it, if it feels like homework, just
put it down.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah, then it's not for now.
Speaker 4 (17:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Oh my gosh. A right, we're gonna take a quick break.
We're gonna be back talking about lots more reading stuff.
All right, We are back, And I love planning and
(18:18):
tracking things. And I always make testated, okay, good about
how different people who read a lot and I don't
read as much as you. I'm more in like the
forty to fifty So that's a lot less onerous. But
how do you track your reading?
Speaker 4 (18:31):
Oh my gosh, I track my reading in so many
different ways it's actually getting to be like obscene. So
first and foremost, I have a reading track or spreadsheet
that I have built over the last I mean, I
keep changing it every year. I update and change it.
But it's just like a Google sheet. It's actually something
that I offer. I have a Patreon and it's a
(18:51):
perk that I offer to my patrons in December and
January of every year, and it's like you can only
get it then and then it goes away for the
next year. But it has title, it has author, it
has like the imprint and the publisher. It has how
many pages, it has how I read it. It has
my Scott Star reading. It has what country they're from,
if it's in translation, who the editor.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
It has like.
Speaker 4 (19:11):
Every possible little detail you could need for a book.
I think for like a general reader it's probably too much,
but for me it's really helpful to go back and see,
like what I was reading. There's also a page, so
that's like the first page is just raw data. Then
the second page it's like a little chart and it
fills in the percentages, like what percent, and then there's
a page for each year, so the twenty twenty four
(19:34):
stats doing twenty three stets goes all the way back.
Then there's a page for what we call TBR, which
is a to b read list, and that's where I
enter every single book that comes into my home, so
I know, because I get sent a lot of books
for my job, so I know, and by a lot,
I mean like four hundred to seven hundred a year,
just depending on the year. Like it's a lot of
too many to read, but also too many to even
(19:55):
know what I have, And so it's helpful for me
to put it in a spreadsheet because sometimes I'll get
pitched a book and then I will forget about it,
and then six months.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Later it'll be up for like a literary award, and I'm.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Like, oh, let me see if I have that, and
I can go back to the spreadsheet and find it,
because otherwise it's like my brain cannot obviously handle. So
there's all these different tabs. We do a reading challenge
in the stack, so there's a tab for the reading
challenge for your anyways, it's it's great fun. I also
use story graph, which is an alternative to Goodreads, which
I love. It's less social media e it's much more
(20:25):
reading tracking. But also there's tabs where you can do
reading challenges, so you can set up a challenge, maybe
like if your book club wants to set up a challenge,
and you can put all twelve of the books in,
and then you can say, like which ones you've read,
and you can see what other people are doing, and
that's really fun. I also use Goodreads still too, mainly
because I know that bookstores use the ratings on Goodreads
(20:48):
to help kind of know what's exciting and what they
should be stocking, and so I want to make sure
that I'm like part of that process as someone who
cares deeply about making sure books are getting into people's hands.
And then I also have a little notes app where
I have all the books i've just finished, just the
title to know if I've actually posted a review about
them on my Instagram or not. So every time I
finish a book, I have to go to four places
(21:09):
to enter information, which is why I'm like, it's getting
out of control, and I think I probably will be
leaving Goodreads completely very very soon. I don't love it there,
and it's just an extra thing. But at the moment,
I haven't quite made. Maybe I'm done in twenty twenty five.
Maybe that's the plan.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Well, I'm impressed that you have your data so many
and I'm very jealous because I did not start tracking
my books until twenty twenty, and I'm so sad about it.
I'm like, how can you go back? And I read
in my life, how can I go back? I mean,
I don't know what I read when I was like
twenty seven, Like it's been a while.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
So I started my tracker in twenty sixteen. When I
started that, like twelve books, yes, in the year. So
I have previous titles on my Goodreads that I read
from a long time ago, but I don't have those
entered in the tracker because I don't have years.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 4 (21:57):
I still might go back because there are books that
I read loved that are not in my tracker that
I sort of wish were.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
So I don't know, but you can go back.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I think tracking is like a relatively I don't want
to say new, like not new like this year, but
like in twenty ten, no one was like tracking. They're
reading like it's so people.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Were I know people were people who have grandmothers, like
when they died, they found journals that were just like
lists of every book they ever read. I know, I
thought that was so cool and like the year they
read them. So I think some people were, but I
do think you're right that was not like as gamified
and like social media. I think I got on good
(22:38):
Reads in about two thousand and nine, and so that's
when I started sort of keeping track, but I didn't
start the spreadsheet till twenty I think I started the
spreadsheet in twenty eighteen.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Actually, well, your spreadsheet sounds amazing. I may have to
check out your Patreon just for the spreadsheet.
Speaker 4 (22:50):
It's more a thing, I'm telling you, it's it is
the greatest part of my life. Every time I finish
a book, I'm like, I get to put it in
the tracker.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
That is amazing. All right, Well, reading mediums you mentioned
you like audio, you like Kindle, you like paper. I
mostly read on paper. I'm like weird, and I'm mix
of buying stuff and getting from the library because well
I'm in Roward County, Florida, and like we have a
great like people from not from here, apparently like can
get into our system, but we have like I can
get almost anything I want on paper pretty quickly. I mean,
(23:21):
there's a few really hot titles where there's a decent
sized waiting list, but I actually think it's better than
most places, so I feel spoiled that way. But yeah,
how do you choose a format for a given book?
Although I guess I know you get a lot of
books sent, so that might too skew the data here.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
I also love my library. I mostly use my library
for audiobooks and ebooks like I've never I can say
I have purchased some audiobooks, but I have never purchased
an ebook in my.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
Life, except for that's not true.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
One an independent author who I love, I've bought her
romance novel, But other than that, I've never purchased because
I have a library system that I love as well
as far as what I'm going to read. If I'm
making the decision for myself, I'm usually reading fiction on
paper or with my eyes, whether that's kindle or physical book,
(24:11):
And if it's pretty dense nonfiction the same, I'm usually
listening to memoirs or very narrative nonfiction. That's just how
my brain works. But sometimes I'm reading a book physical
and kindle at the same time, or audio and physical
at the same time. Not literally at the same time,
but like I might be making dinner and I put
(24:33):
the audiobook on, and then when I sit down to
read at night, I go find the book and I
go find what page I'm on. I jokingly say that
I'm a one book pony, which just means that I
can pretty much only read one book at a time.
That's not exactly true, because I can do one on
audio and one with my eyes, but I'm not You'll
it would be so rare that I would actually be
(24:53):
actively reading two different books at the same time in
the same format. I pretty much just power through one
as I go. I know people who have books in
different rooms, Like their night time book in their bedroom
is one book, and then they have a book that
they read like on the couch in the evenings or
in the mornings. Not me, it's one book all day
until it's done.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
I was gonna ask you that question. That's so interesting.
I'm I have to have one fiction and one nonfiction
at all times generally, Like I don't go beyond that,
but like for me, there's such different like reading, they're
almost like not related, like yeah, experience.
Speaker 1 (25:26):
How do you decide which one you're going to read?
Or where? Like is it a physical location or is
it a time of.
Speaker 3 (25:31):
Day or yeah, like my nonfiction is morning reading, like
that's how I start my day and then I'm usually
done with it for the day, like it's rare that
I would pick it up again. And then fiction is
like any other time, like for fun, like at lunch
or like when I'm going to bed or whatever.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
But yeah, what kind of nonfiction?
Speaker 3 (25:47):
A mix of stuff, but some memoirs a lot of
like personal development, like but it more on the like
I don't know, like cal Newport or like well, Lauravanerkam
is the co host of this podcast, and I got
into her stuff for a reason. I love it. But
authors in that realm, which I often end up reading
also kind of for work since I have this podcast
and then bestlaid plans. So yeah, all right, but back
(26:07):
to you.
Speaker 4 (26:09):
Sorry, podcasters can't help themselves asking no questions, Like I've
been biting my tongue and asking you so many questions
so that I had to get those off though I'm done.
Speaker 3 (26:18):
I'm done, And you saw on my face when you
said you only read one book at once, and I
think I was shocked because I was just like, oh,
she's a reading person and she likes to just power
through one. I never would have thought that so very interesting.
I'm going to pivot a little bit because i want
to talk about reading and kids. Now, your kids, not
you reading with kids, but like helping the kids read.
So your kids are five, and what are your reading
(26:40):
practices with them now? And what are tips for cultivating
or reading habit in your children.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
We read every day at bedtime.
Speaker 4 (26:49):
They don't read yet, and I am really nervous to
pressure them to read, Like I've been very sort of
hands off in reading, Like I think other parents are
probably more active at this age with reading. But I'm
like too scared for them to like resent it because
(27:11):
it is my job. So I think I'm maybe like
over correcting the other way. Like they know all their letters,
they know all their sounds, but when I try to
have them like put it together, and then they're like
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
I'm like, Okay, don't do it. It's fine. Nobody who
reads readings for losers. It's fine, it's fine. But they
love books.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
They love books like they get so they each get
to pick a book at bedtime that I read to them.
And if we're really running late, sometimes we have to
agree on one book only, like all three of us
have to agree on one book, and that is always
like the worst.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Like it's like I.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
Want to pick a book, this one, picked the book,
this one. Like if we can get the two books
in or a bonus book, that's always great.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
So mostly we.
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Read picture books, but recently we started reading a chapter
a night from sometimes from certain chapter books. So like
we were reading Charlotte's Web. We were listening in the
car to Charlie and the Chocolate Factory on audio. They
were really into that. On longer drives, Trevor Noah has
this great new book called Into the Uncut Grass. It's
really small, it's for like teeny tiny chapters, but it's
(28:09):
so I'm like obsessed with that. I'm telling everybody it's
so good. And they just really i mean, they just
really like to be read to, and they like to
ask questions and tell me about what they're seeing, what's
happening in the book.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, And do you have a process for picking books
for them or like a favorite resource you go to
to find kids books, No, I.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Mean at this point now they like to pick books
when we go to the bookstore. And one of the
things I do is every time I go on a
trip because I have to travel for work, is I
always bring back a book for each person. And so
that's like a fun, fun way for me to find
new books because I'm usually going to bookstores in my
travels and sometimes I get sent books from publishers. I
(28:49):
have some people on social media that I follow who
talk about kids books, but mostly I'm sort of just
like peruising, and we go to the library a lot,
so that's also a good way to discover new authors.
And usually when we go, everyone gets to pick two
or three books, including me, so we end up with
and if my husband goes, you know, another, so we
end up with like eight to twelve books for like
(29:09):
kids books for a library trip, and then that's enough
to kind of rotate and if we find any favorites,
we might go back and see if that author has
other you know, so the same way that I do
with adult books, sort of just recommendations if I've seen
it somewhere, going to the library, asking friends, whatever, looks
exciting all of that.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
We had the best library routine last year because one
of my kids had a piano teacher that was like
right by the library. We would go every week. And
I'm like, that's why we don't have library books anymore,
because we just switch piano teachers. Oh, but I agree
that regular visitation is so helpful and unlike me, like
when I go to the library, I'm just picking up
my holds, you know, But with them, I want them
to browse and like choose, so that sane really makes sense.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
That's exactly when I go, I'm just in and out.
Speaker 4 (29:50):
I have to go this afternoon, I'm gonna walk over there,
pick up my books and get out. But yes, with them,
we go sit in like the little kids room and
they get to pick.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
And it's so funny.
Speaker 4 (29:59):
When we go to the a bookstore, they'll pull books
off the shelf like they're at the library. But at
the library they tell you to just leave them on
the table and the librarians put them away.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
But at the bookstore, I'm like, where did you get that?
We have to put it back. It's like different vibes,
different vibes.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
All right, we're going to take one more break and
we are going to be back with some tips on
maybe fitting in more reading or getting out of a slump.
All right, we are back, and I definitely have my
(30:34):
own reading slump in the end of twenty twenty four
kind of like started with some stressful stuff around August
in September and had trouble recovering. And I know that
it's a common like New Year's goal for people to
read more. So what would you suggest for someone either
in a reading slump or who is trying to build
up the habits of reading more? And maybe those are
(30:55):
two different things.
Speaker 4 (30:56):
Yeah, I say those are two really different things to me.
I'm going to start with the reading slum. If you
are in a reading slump now more than ever, pick
up things that you really want to read, not that
thing that you bought last time at the store or
the thing that the hold is going to be up
on soon from the library. That book that you have
been dying to read, that everyone is talking about, that
(31:19):
you're so excited about. That is the only thing that
will get you out of a reading slump. The other
option is to avoid your books like the Plague, watch
every TV show that you've ever wanted to watch until
you feel like you're excited to read books again. I
had a horrible reading slump when Love is Blind was
on and I was like, I gotta read, I gotta read,
and I was like, you know what, I'm just going
(31:39):
to watch all of Love is Blind. And I did,
and I bounce back with my best reading month ever.
So like it just I think, like, Okay, you're in
a reading slump. Great, who cares?
Speaker 1 (31:50):
You'll go back, you know.
Speaker 4 (31:51):
Like even when I was in a reading slump, which
is different because I have to read for work, I
still was like, I hate reading. I hate every book
I read, and it was miserable for like I had
like two or three this year. Actually it was a
really hard reading year for me.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
But you get out of it. You bounce back.
Speaker 4 (32:06):
Something exciting comes along and it takes you right out
of it as far as wanting to read more. So
this is still my reading goal every single year. I
started doing this about four years ago and I do
it every single year.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
My only reading goal is to read ten pages a day.
That is my only goal. And I know it's all crazy.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
I'm interrupting you, because that's the goal I set for
twenty twenty five, Like it's already been announced on the podcast,
so no one will think I copied. That's okay, keep going,
that's hilarious. Actually it was ten minutes for me, but
keep going.
Speaker 4 (32:39):
Ten minutes okay. So I'm a slow reader. Ten minutes
will get me like three pages, and I'm like, I
can't be efective. Ten pages for me is probably about
more like twenty minutes of reading time. And I think
it's a perfect goal because it's quantifiable, it is easy
to achieve.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
It's not a pain.
Speaker 4 (32:58):
It's not even not even running a mile, right, It's
not difficult. It's just a matter of sitting down and
doing it. When I started reading ten pages a day
as a goal, I started reading even more than what
I was already reading a lot, because it makes it
a practice.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
And if you do the.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Math, ish we're talking about like three thousand, six hundred
and fifty pages in the year, which is approximately going
to put you let's say every book is three hundred pages,
like you're looking at ten to twelve books in the year.
But the real reason that this goal, I think it
worked for me so well, is that once you start
reading ten pages, you're not gonna want to stop at
(33:38):
ten pages, right, Like, if you're picking the right books,
if the books are exciting too, if it's things you
want to read, you're going to sit down for those
ten pages and you're gonna be like, I have a
little extra time, I'm gonna read more. And like, some
days I truly only read ten pages. Some days I
only get to like three pages or zero pages. I mean,
it happens. But then some days I read two hundred
pages in the day. But the thing is like having
(34:00):
the goal be low and achievable, I think is really important,
especially if you're trying to get back into reading or
you are just like I want to read a little
bit more, but I'm not really a reader. Something like
that is really doable. I also think one book a
month is also like a doable goal, or depending on
how much you read, maybe it's one a week whatever,
but like something that's super duper quantifiable. Did I do
(34:22):
this yes or no? Because like reading more not like,
how do you know if you're reading more?
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Totally two be So yeah, That's what I was saying.
Speaker 4 (34:31):
And then the other thing I say for people who
like are struggling to read or like finding time is
to I mean, I'm not as intense to be like
put it on your calendar. But if that's like I
don't know some people, you know, some people put their
workouts on their calendar. Some people put having sex with
their partner on their calendar. So like, depending on who
you are, maybe that's helpful. But to me, I think
just when it's time to read, going on airplane mode
(34:53):
is huge. Making sure you have your snacks and beverages,
your blankets, you have gone to the bathroom, all of
the things that are the thing that will make you
get up and stop reading. Make sure you've taken care
of those things first and then sit down to read.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
I think that's.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
Really really, really, really really important. If you have young
kids and like maybe you're trying to sneak in reading
when they're out of the house, maybe they're with their sitter,
or maybe they're with your partner, maybe they're at school.
What I do is I have a do not disturb
mode that is for sort of reading time that allows
for those people to get through to me. Otherwise nobody
(35:28):
else can. So if you're worried about that, like you
can customize your phone to give you a do not
disturb that allows for any people that you might need
to talk to, you know, so, and you can have
like a special one that's just for reading.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
Yes, reading mode. I love it, Yeah, I love it. Well.
We usually do a Love of the Week, which is, like,
you name something that makes you happy this week, but
I thought it might be more fun for you to
share as of now. This is mean, but your top
three books for twenty twenty four? Can you or okay,
just three books you loved in twenty twenty four? There
you go, I can.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
I can share three of my favorite books. My problem
is that this year there were two books that were
sort of like the most beloved books by everybody in
the world, and like they're up for all the awards,
and so I'm just gonna say them because I too
loved these books, but everybody's talking about them, and so
I feel like, let's not waste time with them. One
is called James by Percival Everett, and the other is
called Martyr by Cave.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
Akbar Love Love, Love, Love Love. Okay, I'm with everybody.
They're great done. My favorite nonfiction.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Book so far or like overall this year is a
book called Challenger by Adam Higginbotham. It's about the Challenger
disaster in nineteen eighty six. It is so riveting. It's
one of those books where you know the ending and
you're still like, what's gonna happen? Like, how did this
spaceshift take off? It's so fascinating. I will do one
(36:48):
small disclaimer. I did not think this, but a lot
of people told me that the first section they thought
was a little bit slow because it's a little bit sciency.
So if you're a person who's like, should I keep going, yes,
get to part two, I'm part three, and you're gonna
be like sick to your stomach because you cannot believe
what's happening. So that's a book I loved this year.
He also wrote the Chernobyl book that got turned into
that Chernobyl TV show on HBO. The book's called Midnight
(37:11):
in Chernobyl.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
He's great.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
Another book that I loved this year is a book
called Colored Television by Danzy Senna. She's so funny and
I just absolutely I am obsessed with her. It's about
this woman named Jane. It's a novel, and Jane is
a professor and she's trying to write her second book.
But it's a failure and it's about Jane's mixed race
and it's about being mixed, and she's like, I'm going
to sell out.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
I'm going to go to Hollywood.
Speaker 4 (37:36):
She goes to write the great like Mixed TV show,
and it's just all about her extremely bad decisions. Danzy
is like an author who writes main characters who a
lot of people think are unlikable. I love them, but
they make bad choices, Like the whole book, You're just
like Jane girl, do not do that, don't Jane.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I hate this for y'all. And then.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
Last book I'll pick is, let's see, I did nonfiction.
I did fiction.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Do you want me to do essays? Or do you
want me to do memoir?
Speaker 3 (38:08):
Deep, let's have a memoir. I need to mate.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
This memoir is called Another Word for Love by Carvel Wallace.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
It is so good.
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Carvell Wallace is a black queer person from the Bay Area,
or actually they're from the East Coast.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
They live in LA. They live in the Bay Area.
Speaker 4 (38:25):
The first part of the book is about their childhood
and sort of the trauma that they experienced their mother
dealed with like houselessness, and it's a lot of kind
of difficult, heavy stuff, and then as the book goes on,
Carvell sort of imagines these other possibilities around healing and
redemption and reconciliation. It's just so beautifully written. It's so smart,
(38:46):
it's so tender. When I first started the book, I
was sort of like, this is really good writing, like
this feels like every other sort of trauma memoir, And
as you keep going, you're just like, whoa, I am
blown away by the way that this memoir was transformed,
by the way that this author has transformed their thinking.
It's just so powerful and so beautiful. So that's another
(39:07):
word for love by Carvel Wallace.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
And that sounds awesome. All right, Maybe one of those
will get me out of my slum. Oh my gosh, Tracy,
this has been so so delightful. So remind our listeners
where they can find you, including that very tantalizing spreadsheet
you mentioned.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
Yes, okay, so you can find me at the Stacks
pod on Instagram. And the podcast is called The Stacks.
It comes out every Wednesday, so wherever you get your podcasts.
And then if you want to support the work that
I do, I have a Patreon. It's Patreon dot com
slash the Stacks. If you join in December or January,
you have access to the Reading Tracker. It'll get sent
(39:43):
to you. It'll be posted sometime in December, sometime soon,
and then yeah, that's that you can and I have
a website. The Stacks podcast will all the places. If
you go to any of the places, you'll be able
to find all the other places because that's how internet works.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
So yes, the Stacks find it.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Oh my gosh, thank you so much for coming on, Tracy.
This was a blast.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Thank you for having me. Well, that was great.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Thank you so much, Sarah and Tracy for that discussion
of reading. So this week's question comes from a listener
who says you both seem to take weekends away with
your husband's I mean, I hear about this less from Laura,
but it seems like it happens. My question is how
do you deal with childcare in this situation? It seems
like your nanny sometimes covers. Does she sleep at your house?
(40:31):
What do you pay for the weekend relative to an
hourly rate? Do your grandparents ever cover? With a big family,
I now have three kids under six, do you ever
split up the kids to make it easier on the
childcare provider. This person says that she and her husband
were pretty good about this when they had one kid,
maybe even two, but three seems like nobody wants to
take over for forty eight hours, So, Sarah, what is
(40:52):
your answer there?
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, so we do usually hire our nanny to do this.
I'm not going to go into total payment specific, but
you can pay a lower rate for overnights. You just
have to legally make sure that you're at least paying
a minimum wage, so you can't be like when the
kids are sleeping it's free, like they're still working, and
you have to be paying something. So we worked it out.
(41:14):
It's not the full full regular rate, but it's definitely
extra above what she would get into normal week and
meets those criteria. She will often stay at our house
because it's just easier if the kids have activities, or
she'll take them to her house for a night, And
we have in the past also had grandparents help, not
by sending all three there, but like sending one kid
(41:35):
with the grandparents and then her taking the other two
and the other kind of share the load. Option would
be like if one of one friend had like maybe
your oldest has a really close friend and they could
just have a sleepover. Because the older kids get, the
easier it is to just kind of host another kid,
so it's not a huge burden for you know, your
next door neighbor with a similar age kid to take
your twelve year old, for example. So yeah, I mean
(41:57):
I love going away with my husband. We try to
do it twice a year, so it's not like this
is a happening all the time kind of a thing.
But I just think it's so good for our relationship
when we do it, and I look forward to them
and want to keep doing it. Yeah, well, I can
say we don't do it that frequently.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
I mean, we've done three since Henry was born, and
those have all been in the last year, So I
guess we're getting better at it now as the kids
are getting older. But we need to hire overnight coverage.
But we had overnight cover, you know, we have it
during the week as an option because that's always something
we've built into our agreements with our nannies that they
would be available for that. Because I travel for work,
(42:35):
my husband travels for work, we need coverage that could
be overnight. So we tend actually to hire different people
though for the weekends, just as a matter of keeping
ours reasonable. You know, we have other people that we
have hired for the weekend, and you just you know,
negotiate a rate like anything else, like this for the
(42:58):
hours that we assume the kids are and then this
is the overnight rate, and that's how you do it.
But yeah, I totally sympathize that it is hard to
get anyone to cover for large families. You know, grandparents
may have been fine with one kid, but five kids
makes it a little harder on anyone to manage the chaos,
(43:19):
even if some of the kids are older. And so yeah,
that is the kind of a drawback of the larger
family is the ability for you guys to get away
to gather.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
This is actually the hardest thing.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
It is not hard for one parent to get away,
and so I often encourage people to trade off with
their partners so each of you get time away to
do fun stuff. But of course the two of you
to gather is the hardest of all of that, since
you don't have a readily available person.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
So empathizing here totally, and in some ways I do
feel like the challenges kind of seem to get more
so when the kids are old, I mean they're easier
in the way that you could send them to a neighbor,
and they're harder in a way that like the kids
have more stuff and so like for example, when we
just left, the kids had like a soccer tournament and
then the restraumatics it was piano and like you know,
(44:06):
our Nanni was one person managing all of that. And
that's a lot. Of course, our kids could skip an
activity every once in a while and they wouldn't know,
no disaster, what would happen. But it just logistics become
a little bit more complex when the kids are older.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Sometimes exactly all right, Well, this has been best of
both worlds. Sarah has been interviewing Tracy Thomas of The Stacks.
We will be back next week with more on making
work and life fit together.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the
shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram,
and you can.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
Find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This has
been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us
next time for more on making work and life work together.
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