August 22, 2023 • 52 mins
The porn industry and sex work are often stigmatized, but adult performers face racism, discrimination, and pay disparities within the industry. Host Roy Wood Jr. sits down with Daily Show segment director Stacey Angeles and adult entertainers and co-creators of the adult film production company, Royal Fetish Films, Jet Setting Jasmine and King Noire to discuss how the porn industry perpetuates racist stereotypes and capitalizes on racist film titles, how consumers can hold companies accountable, and what constitutes a sexual “fantasy.”
Original air date: November 29, 2022
Watch the original segment: https://www.cc.com/video/didt5n/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-is-the-porn-industry-racist
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes
deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on The
Daily Show. That this is what you gotta think about
this podcast as it's like, this podcast is like a
secret family recipe. We get all the ingredients to make
that homemade dish that only your mama knows how to make,
and she refuses to write it down or pass it
(00:27):
on to anybody because she don't want y'all to be
happy after she dies. And you could really do the
recipe justice, but you know, but your mama be hating good.
It is what it is. So yeah, that's what this
podcast is. I'm Roywood Jr. And today we're talking about
a segment we filmed back in twenty sixteen that asked
a very important question. It's the porn industry racist. Roll
(00:51):
the clip, Well, no, not that porn clip, roll a
Daily Show clip about porn. Don't roll a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Port a female can say yayny to a person just
because of the color riskin. Black men are particularly portrayed
in porn as being thugs, criminals, What.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Are you black men?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
House?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Black women are portrayed as extremely ghetto.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
The titles are racists itself.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The porn industry will take anything painful to black people
and just add a pair of titties, Black wives matter,
twelve inches of slave help.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
They even remade.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Roots girls be killed around here. Anybody that would say
that there is racism and porn really needs to be
slapped out of.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Today. I'm joined by segment director Stacy Angele's who helped
produce this piece. Stacy, how you doing, old friend?
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I'm great.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Roy always love talking about porn with you.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, thank you. I'm happy that you're the only person
I talk about form with at work as well. Hello, Hr,
I know you're listening. Also joining us for this conversation
our adult entertainers, life partners and business partners. They're co
creators of the adult film production company Royal Fetish Films.
She is a licensed clinical therapist. Please welcome jet Setting
(02:20):
Jasmine to the program, Jet Setting, How you doing, Madam,
Jet Madam Sutton mad okay, we'll take it. And also
your partner in business and your partner in real life,
King Noir King, how you doing?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Pace. It's good to be here now.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I'm excited to hear about some stories of racism, because
you know that's what I love talking about as a
black person. But first, Stacey, I know how this piece
kind of came to be. I don't remember who else
was in on the inception of it, but I do
remember Trayvon Free coming into my office and he just goes, hey, man,
(03:01):
you want to meet Misty Stone. Well, but sure, why not?
I'll keep in mind. Up until that point, the pieces
I had done were police reform, the twentieth anniversary of
the Million Man March, embedding on the election. I was
so happy just to do something that was just completely
(03:21):
off the wall. And if I recall, you were relatively
new to the show, So what did you think when
they brought this piece to you?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
No, I was super new, and so it was my
going to be my third piece. So I think there
were five pieces floating around. And obviously I got drawn
to porn because everybody loves porn, Even people who say
they don't watch porn love porn. But then I saw
the story and I was like, oh, this is a
little bit darker because Trayvon sent me an article that
was like, white women were demanding more pay to sleep
(03:50):
with black men, And as discussing as that was, it
was shocking to me because I don't know, maybe I'm naive,
but when I think of the porn industry, I always
think of like sexual fruit, be open mindedness. I never
thought that it would be something that had so many
boundaries or whatever. And then when I was researching more
on it, I saw that not only is it racist,
(04:11):
they're like capitalizing on it with the titles and the premises,
and it seemed like a narrative that they were kind
of getting away with. And also I never worked with Roy,
and so it was my first piece with Roy, so
I was very excited about that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, but what did you find most surprising? Because I'll
be honest, like when I was doing a little bit
of the research going into you know, for the listeners.
As a correspondent, it's very important that you get the
backstory on the topic that you're researching because it makes
you a better, a more adept interviewer when you're speaking
with your seeing partners, if you will, for this particular
(04:48):
that we'll call them see, but the people you're interviewing,
you want to know what the hell you're talking about, right,
And so I just remember seeing all of these random
racist peorn titles. We had a researcher Devin Devin Leary
who was with the show at the time, and she
had to watch hours of porn and find the stereotypes
so that we could find the jokes in him.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
And so her desk was so popular.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Like twelve twelve years a Slave, like like just parodies
of just popular films. They were just like, yeah, let's
flip that into a porn. So was there anything that
shocked you about this shoot?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I was gonna mention Devin Leary because's she did all
the research and she was the second producer at the time.
She's amazing. And I said, you know, we need to
find a bunch of porn that has that really banks
on all those stereotypes of black people being criminals, breaking in, thugs,
you know whatever. And I was thinking she might have
to dig deep, like baby, and it was like instant,
(05:48):
She's like, oh my god, I found one. And the
titles were not even the titles aren't even subtle. They're
just like, oh no, a black man broke into my house.
Oh no, there's a black man inside my wife, Like
they were just it was an an embarrassment of riches
and it just it was just like so much she
almost gave me too much stuff. And then that was
like insanely surprising to me. And then the second thing
(06:10):
that was really surprising was hearing things white women were
more willing to do over having sex with the black men,
like triple anal penetration and prostitution and everything was shocking because,
like I was saying earlier, I really thought I had.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Maybe I am not.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Even that white girls will ask for double, triple quadruble
the amount to do an interracial scene.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This seems to be the only industry where a white
person could just straight up go, I ain't working with
no black people today. You couldn't do that. If you
work at a fast food spot, you could just go,
who's cooking? Stanley? Oh baby, you got to pay me
time and a half if I'm gonna be working with
these negroes. Jasmine, give me the first time you were
(07:00):
on set and you know, like when you're in the
middle of racism, like when racism in progress and you
just be sitting there talking to yourself. Can you know
what I'm talking about too? You just be like, and
my experience in this field though, Okay, Jasmine, just hold
the chicken and biscuit in your hand and been over
okay and action. He's like, wait a minute, did you
just ask me to hole a chicken wing and a biscuit?
(07:22):
Like walk us through, you know, both of you walk
us through that first time that you discovered the level
of discrimination that existed in the industry or were you
put up on game about that from the jump?
Speaker 6 (07:35):
So I think we're both going to be able to
give you a range of examples. And so for me,
I was put up on jump Like the reason why
royal fetish films exist is because as a consumer of porn,
I was like, I can't First of all, I can't
watch it and listen to you know, I can't listen
to the fake blacks, and I can't listen to the
(07:55):
stereotypical tropes. I can't listen to the chicken and biscuit jokes.
It became a form of entertainment for me. That was like,
if I'm enjoying this is something wrong with me and
I'm not enjoying it, So why am I watching it?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Now? Where am I gonna go to get inspiration to masturbate? Right?
Speaker 6 (08:12):
So, when King and I started working together, it was like,
we need to create something that we could feel proud
to watch. And we were hearing this from We're already
doing sex education, hosting parties, and we were already hearing
this like, I don't watch porn specifically from black women
because we don't see ourselves reflected. It's degrading. It's hard
to feel sexy when you are seeing the lowest representation
(08:36):
of yourself and your people. So I already knew like
whatever we created was gonna be something that I wanted
to watch. Now that being said, as we started to
become more popular, at least for me, people were starting
to ask me to shoot for their company. And so
I come from in this industry, from a privileged space
where I can say like, no, thank you. That sounds
like I'm going to be sitting there in exactly how
(08:58):
you describe, like in the middle of some racism, and
so I was able to say kind of no right
off the back. They're like, oh, well, the scene is
gonna call for you to do some twerking. Nothing's wrong
with twerking, but you've never seen me twerk. Why would
you be casting me for that? Like, I'm probably not
the best person. Like, if you want to see great
point of toes in some modern dance like sign me up,
(09:20):
but for twerking. You know, you're just kind of making
an assumption that because I'm back and I do porn,
that that's what you're gonna get, right.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
So, but I will say that what I.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Have seen, and I've worked enough corporate jobs and for
government agencies to know that sort of like baseline of
racism that's there. I look at where the bottom line,
where the dollars roll, and I've found that my white
counterparts were getting money for hair, for makeup, and for
costuming when they shoot. And for me, it was like,
make sure you bring your own makeup kit and you know,
(09:53):
we'll do something with your hair. You know, you have
that style that's so edgy, and bring a couple this okay,
bring a couple, bring a couple of outfits, and we'll
choose from what you have. And then later to find
out that this is a line item where my white
counterparts shoot. You know, so there are there's that there's
(10:14):
also I have found, Like even leading into this interview,
I was like, let me just go, let me google myself,
Let me google myself and the N word, and cause
I know I don't say it, so somebody had to
put it out there, and a lot of my scenes
have been licensed using words that I did not agree to. Now,
since those are a lot of those scenes are older ones,
(10:36):
since we got even further up on game, we now
make it a part of our contract that they cannot
sell our scenes using any type of derogatory language, because
a lot of times you might be thinking that you're
shooting for a company that has your best interest in
mind and that sees you as whoever you are, and
then you know, three times around, you're in Germany as
the black nigger girl torques on Big Black Dick or
(11:00):
not definitely wouldn't say husband in criminal.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah yeah, or ghetto women give blow jobs to pay
their power bill, Like it's always like why they need
the money in the discript so I've heard. I've never
been in any the sites.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think also with with a lot of the times
when it comes to just that open mindedness of the
industry that Stacey had just mentioned, it might be open
minded for the white performers, like there's a certain level
of freedom that they have even within their titles, but
within the black titles there's this whole desperation that is
(11:40):
also put with it as well. And for me, I
have experienced all the way from the subtle racism to
the I've been called nigger on set before you know,
I was at in the scene. No, it wasn't even
in the scene. I was a random crew member. No,
it was another performer. She wanted to have sex with
(12:03):
me off camera after our scene, and I was like, nah,
I got things to do. I was actually about to
call Jasmine and check in on the family, and she
catches an attitude and messages. We had the same agent,
and she messaged the agent King is being an uppity
nigger to my agent, he won't have sex with me
(12:28):
off camera. And you know what uppity mean. When they
call you uppity, that just mean you're not doing what
white folks want you to do.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, they trying to break you exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
The company tried to tell me that I should still
film with her. I basically had to tell them nothing
that I shot with her should ever be released. I
had them signed like I wrote some shit on a
paper right there and was like, y'all signing this, y'all
never releasing this, or there's gonna be a problem. So
then they tried to tell other people in the industry
not to work with me because I because I'm a problem,
(12:59):
because I don't want to be called a nigger by
my costa.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But if she's a white woman, she holds more power
than you in the industry because white women are kind
of the Golden Geese fiscally speaking for a lot of
these production companies.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
Right, So I want to challenge that roy The perception,
right is that white women are the golden the Geese state.
And I think that that's where it's the reflection of
society in the industry. But when you look at what
the top selling genre is, it's interracial. You cannot have
you know, a white woman alone is not making the
(13:30):
top dollar. When you look at the top searches, it's
interracial Hentie Milf, right, So there are certain subsets of
the people that are participating in the industry that actually
are the clickbait they are, you know. So this idea
that you know, white women have specific power in the industry,
(13:50):
it's more of a reflection of our largest society and
how we see them as you know, without without fault,
to be protected, to be up lifted, to be you know,
held in this prize position. But if we look at
the bottom line, they need to sleep with someone other
than themselves to bring in the highest number of clicks,
advertisements and money.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
What is the dynamic on set though? Like if you
writing Cease and Desists on the back of a napkin
on set, what is the hr situation in that? Like, Okay,
let me break it down, because all I know is
like is like acting on a set. And there were
some time years ago I played an extra. I played
(14:32):
a slave in the background of a Civil War reenactment.
This is like ninety seven. It's my first ever television credit.
And we're all dressed like slaves and it's, you know,
showing union sould just what buying. The director comes over
and goes, you know, could you guys mime like you're
clapping like he wanted us basically to be doing like
some humming and singing around the fire, like singing slave hymnals.
(14:56):
And we all kind of looked at each other and
it was like, yo, no, just I don't want to
I'm already dressed like a slave, my man, Just let
me just sit here and just chill. How much do
you get to challenge when they try to add a
little do they try to, like you agree to one thing,
and then you get on set and they try and
flip the script. King, Like, has there ever been a
scenario where they try to come in and sprinkle a
(15:17):
little race? You mind?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
King?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love what you're doing, but let me put a
little racism on top of it, real quick, let's do
it again.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I mean, those are the times when you have to
make a business decision where it's like, am I comfortable
with this? Am I walking off set? Am I going
to deal with whatever backlash is going to follow?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You walked off set?
Speaker 4 (15:40):
I have walked off set. I have definitely walked off set.
I have had That's what I said. I've dealt with
so many It's sometimes it be that type of racism
where it's like I have a lot of black friends.
I grew up with black friends. Like just recently, I
had this thing where he was this is the director.
This isn't like another but for this the director. The
(16:00):
first time I ever went into somebody's house and it
smelled like Chitlin's, I'm like, what what does that have
to do with anything that we're doing?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Now?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
We haven't smelled chin in the house.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Don't you know what?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm saying so, but it's like stuff like that, and
it did wind up having to It led to a
conversation that I was like, I might never work for
this company again, but I need to have this conversation
in a way that's not gonna completely make them be like,
you know, angry black man, but they gotta stop. And
it had kind of led to this thing where I
(16:35):
can't go. He was talking about Atlanta, like some neighborhood.
He was like, you know, white people can't go there,
And I was like, where where in America can't white
people go? Y'all own stuff? You gotta go. You gotta
go to the hood to collect your rent, or there's
a burger king there, or there's whatever. You know what
I'm saying, There's no place in America that you can't go.
But I know if I'm a My Aubrey and I'm
(16:57):
running through a neighborhood, I know I can't be there.
I can't go Benson Hurst, I can't go to Sundowntown's.
That's that's our reality. That's not your reality, but it's
shaped that way. So I had to have this conversation
on set with the director and I knew, like and
at this point, it's just like I'm not in the
I'm not in the mood to fuck after this. I
(17:18):
am I know, like I'm like, look, it's noth's not
gonna happen to shoot exactly. It's not gonna happen today.
And and trying to explain that, like you sometimes will
have to it's not gonna happen for me. And you
don't always have to. Sometimes you're gonna have to put
it like I can't work with you. But sometimes you
(17:38):
just gotta. You gotta take that l And that's a
tough part about our industry because there isn't an HR
department that I could say, hey, you know, who are
you gonna go to with most of these companies, these
these are their own companies or these directors are also
the heads and owners of their company.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Is there a union? Part of me if this is
an ignorant question, but is there like an actors union
for adult entertainers?
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Two?
Speaker 6 (18:04):
There there are some organizations if there's a free speech
coalition that works to uphold some forms of advocacy for performers,
and there's also a guild, but it's very very loose.
I mean, part of the issue is that the porn
industry is stigmatized from the rest.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Of the workforce.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I mean, we literally have a hashtag that sex work
is work.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
The only time that we're really recognized as being a part,
a fiscal part of the society is taxes. That's the
only time, you know, it's that what goes into our
bank and what comes out for taxes. But trying to
uphold like a discrimination to sexual harassment and those type
of things, Think about what court are we bringing that to.
(18:49):
That also validates that what we're doing is work, that
what we're doing is consensual, that what we're doing is moral.
Just sort of thinking about the pandemic that we are
that we're still in. I know everyone else is out
of it, But there were the PPEP loans that came
out for people who you know, had businesses we're trying
(19:09):
to keep their employees working. We have a full production
company that we wanted to sustain over the pandemic and
keep people working. But the morality clause, there's literally a
morality clause in these loans that although we are tax paying,
legally producing producing content, paying our taxes, et cetera, et cetera,
(19:30):
we don't fall into the requirements and so, you know,
because the structures that are supposed to be able to
support us with taking whether these are claims up for discrimination, hell,
hate crimes if you will, right being called a nigger
on set, sexual harassment, any type of harassment, or the
financial discrimination that I talked about, where my co stars
(19:53):
are getting paid more for the same work, if not
less than what I'm doing.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
It's really difficult.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
It's even difficult to find a sex worker front attorney
that'll take up your clause.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So we are really off.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
It's like a marginalized industry with marginalized people within that industry.
It's like we're in the margins of the margin, Stacey.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We I know. Within the piece, we talked a little
bit about, you know, how the porn industry perpetuates racist stereotypes,
you know, in the present. The thing that I hated
was that we really weren't able to get deeper into
the history of porn, you know, in terms of the
roots of the racism and all of the other different
(20:32):
talk to me a little bit about some of the
pieces and parts that that we wish we would have
had space. Well, for the record, I pitched Porn Part two,
but then Trump got elected, and you know, we had
we had different priorities within the building.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I mean I remember initially reading a pitch about it,
being like, we wanted to make this like the civil
rights movement of the porn industry, making you like the
Martin Luther king of it and trying to you were
trying to like, yeah, I think it was like trying
(21:06):
to inspire white women to sleep with black men, to
you know, end that stigma.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Everybody though, because that was the oh you just brought
it up.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Wait, there was also a hashtag.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think there was like a hashtag Black Dongs Matter,
Like there was like, yeah, I remember like a bunch
of absurd ideas that like popped up.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
There was a problem. Black people are constantly being portrayed
as criminals, sexual predators. Porn companies aren't doing anything to
change it. So I am for limited time only see
black people getting portrayed positively in my new porn series
Affirmative Actions, starring me Goodwood Junior.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
The Horny.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm busy. I've run a fortune five hundred company. I
did not have time to come home and just banged
you repeatedly. We only had time to focus on black
discrimination but then there's also the issue of Asians, you know,
being presented as submissive. Yeah, and just oh, I'm so quiet,
(22:07):
and Islamophobia being a big part of it. And then oh,
you're not light skinned black, You're Latino. Pretend to be
a Mexican. So that's.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That happens to me all the time. They'd be like,
can you play Puerto Rican?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
What does that?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Puerto Ricans are black too, they just were colonized by
a different language.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What what do you want me to do? And then
they sex differently. Do you talk with an accent or
la chica? I am, yeah, but they don't they if
that's a terrible Puerto Rican, please don't cancel man Puerto Rican.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
And we can't even so for for example, I'm Filipino
and Panamane.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Oh my god, me too.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt on Filipino.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
So, but you would be casting you wouldn't be cast
it as Filipino, and neither am I. You know, I
and I'm fine, like I know, I'm a black Filipino
and a black Panamanian. But when people ask me, like,
you know, what should we put here? And then when
it comes out, it's still like black lady, black lady.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know can I I'm so sorry this has been
like lingering over my mind. King when you were talking
about that offensive woman whatever her name is, I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
We don't have to name her.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
How the hell do you perform with someone after they
throw all these offensive racist remarks at you? How do
you perform with them on camera after that?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I don't, I.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Don't personally for me, like I said, with that particular situation,
they had to remove her from the follow up shoots.
But the and it's funny you mentioned Puerto Rican because
when we I was shooting the rest of the scene,
like another part of this of this film with two
(24:01):
other performers, one who was there for when she said,
well when the whole thing happened, and the other who
they brought in to replace her, and then the director
yells cut and then one of the women said, why
did you get mad? I thought you were Puerto Rican
and yo o and that and that was the end
(24:25):
of my working period, like like literally in the middle
of fucking I was like, I'm done, I'm done. I
can't do this no more. And the craziest ship is
they shoot in Iowa. So I had to get out
of Iowa. Oh God, after this, after this racist situation,
and there's nobody to there's nobody to connect with Iowa.
(24:47):
After you go through some racist ship. You can't just
talk to the brother next to you because he ain't dead.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Let me find out they got some porn studios in Iowa. Man,
I've been going to the.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
It's like in those kind of situations where I said, like,
it's like you're gonna have to make a not only
a business decision, but there's a certain decision that you
have to make for your own humanity. And it's like, Nah,
y'all gonna have to pay me to kill fee for
this shoot because this isn't this isn't appropriate, this is
a bad situation. I'm y'all don't deserve my dick no more.
(25:20):
I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's what I tell women too. After the break, I
want to get a little bit more into the work
that you all are doing at Royal Fetish Films and
how you all are helping to solve this problem. And
we need to talk a little bit about your boy
Marty Klein Stacey, who was in the segment that's not
my boy. Well, you the one found them. I didn't
(25:43):
want to interview telling about it's not racism if you
don't want to watch black people on camera. Having said, whatever, Marty,
we're getting to that after the break. This is beyond
the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. We
are talking about racism and porn. A little segment that
I did back in twenty sixteen, shot some of the
(26:03):
interviews out there. I didn't know this King and Jasmine.
I didn't know that they liked that the porn industry
y'all ran out a nice, big, six bedroom house. Each
bedroom is a different universe of a set, and there's
just multiple adult films being shot concurrently, all in one house.
And I was like, wow, this is a That was
like the most shocking thing, like because I don't know why,
(26:25):
just growing up watching porn, I just always thought that
was somebody's real house. Like the concept of a film
set did not register. I thought they were just shooting
at somebody's crib.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Actually, me too, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Into the movie magic right there.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah. I was like that look like a roach on
the wall. I know what, I know where that house.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
You're not on theirbnbs don't always be clean.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Now you want to know something that's really well. I've
seen a poem one time. I've been in so many
hotels rooms over my twenty five years of comedy, i
can tell the hotel by the quilt pattern, and I've
been like, oh, no, that's a Hampton n I'd be
staying at Hampton in But let's talk about royal fetish
(27:15):
films and the work that you all are hoping to
accomplish with that company, because you know the first thing
I want to do, let's set the table and just
talk about the history of discrimination and racism and porn
and white women saying they make less money if they
have sex with a black person, and what it is
exactly you all are trying to undo with your film company.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So I think a lot of times people like to
compartmentalize whatever industry it is, whether it's porn or music
or Hollywood film, whatever it is, and think that the
racism that exists within it is somehow specific to just
that industry. But it always goes back to the same shit.
(27:59):
You know, America is born, rooted and grew up on racism.
You know, America's number one industry was our ancestors here.
You know, like just running through the numbers of our worth,
our ancestors worth being worth more than the country and
the currency of this country, going back to the eighteen hundreds, right.
(28:23):
But the important part to think about with the stereotypes
that we see in porn is that those stereotypes were
born and how they sold us, how they purchased us,
and the fact that, for example, like in Virginia and Maryland,
their number one export, if you will, and crop was
our ancestors was black folk, and they have breeding plantations.
(28:45):
So like a lot of times people talk about tobacco,
rice and cotton, but America also had breeding plantations that
they sold our ancestors on, and they had specific ways
that they did it. So like for example, black men
were a lot of times specifically purchased by the size
of our penis because whatever these racist slave owners back
(29:08):
in the day, they were like, oh, he'll probably make
more babies because his penis is bigger, or whatever the
fuck they thought.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
On some horse scallion type shit.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Exactly exactly. And you know, so that is one stereotype
that we see to this day because if you look
at just percentages across the planet, man Dick's range, there's
big and small of all races. But the perception of
black men's penises being larger is because for however long
these white men just sat there with black men on
(29:37):
a stage, looking at us butt naked and trying to
select our dick size. The shit has been imprinted on
their brain because that's what they look for in us.
It's also what they fear in us because they have
raped so many black women, black men, and black children
over this time. You know, when you look at just
the history of film and the history of entertainment. First ever,
(29:58):
you know, popular groundbreaking film, they say is Birth of
a Nation, you know, and Birth of a Nation was
all about the klue klus Klan stopping black men from
raping white women. Mandingo was all about a slave owner
who goes on a trip and was afraid that the
mistress of the house was going to sleep with his
slave Mandingo because he had been raping all these black
(30:19):
women on the plantation. And this is American popular culture.
First popular culture in music was menstrual music, black white
people in black face imitating us. So all of this
stuff culminates important because these fantasies have been stuck in
the head for hundreds of years so now they get
to put out twelve inches of slave as a thing
(30:39):
for just like had you mentioned for twelve years of
slave or this fear of any kind of movement that
we have in a positive direction where you saw like
that film that was called Black Wives Matter. These feelings
and perceptions, Yeah, they're rooted in all of these fears
(30:59):
in race ideas that they've had of us for years
and years. And if you look at a lot of
the stereotypes of black people, they are also based on
what they did to us on the plantation and kind
of how they manifest themselves in the world today.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
So I think something that's really important when you said, like,
what are we doing to fix this? Hopefully the work
that we do, I hope that changes the industry, but
so much more important to us is helping us realize
our range of sex and sexuality. And I say our
black and brown people who also are terribly impacted by
(31:38):
these stereotypes, not just from like oh, I can't find
anything to watch im porn, but I don't have any
reflection of what I'm supposed to be like sexually. You know,
we talk about folks that are on some of these
sets and can't walk off that they don't have, you know,
the means to be able to make that type of
financial decision, how that leaves their psyche. We deserve to
(32:01):
be a part of this industry just like anyone else.
If this is how we would like to monetize our bodies.
Some people want to type for a living, some people
want to you know, play sports, act what have you.
We choose to have sex and to do sexual acts
for a living. We deserve to be in this industry
without harm. We want our population to be able to
(32:22):
type in you know, black couples and romance BDSM, kinky,
black and kinky and see something where they are not
the fetish, that there's an actual act of kink and
fetish of sex that doesn't have to be degrading, that
doesn't fall into these racist tropes. That allows us to
see other types of bodies interacting with each other, people
(32:46):
from different walks of life, you know, just so many
different expressions that unfortunately we don't see. The other work
that we're doing at Royal Fetish Films are we are
sticking it to these larger companies. We're going on their
pages and we are consulting with them and letting them,
letting helping them understand that if you can't see it
for yourself, see it for your bottom line, your your
(33:07):
search engines, all your algorithms show that people want to
see us in film. And when I look at your
site and you know, point me to your premium content
or your front page, all I see are white women
that are of a certain uh, certain size and appear
to be of a certain age, a younger age, and
(33:28):
that is that's a mismatch. You're not even marketing to
your consumers. You're not marketing to what people are are
looking for. We're challenging them to see the black dollar
in the adult industry. It's important for us to help
our people be represented, to see themselves because the way
that you what.
Speaker 5 (33:47):
You see important.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
We know that it's a primary source of sex education
because there is no sex education in this country. So
you know, if people are going to learn there, I
want to make sure that my interactions, my sexual interactions,
aren't based on somebody's terrible education that they got from
you know, the front.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Page of one of these tube sites.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
If people are going to learn that this is this
is how I have sex, like, it's important in our
films where we are showing people are having conversation about
what kind of sex actually want to participate, that you
have autonomy of your body that you you know, can
be bound and suspended and checked on.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And showing that on camera and showing that as part
of the scene yep, and not in consent and intimacy
and closeness and conversation through the actual process of intercourse.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
I mean, our ship ranges from SAFI or sexual all
the way to like hardcore BDSM and everything in between,
because black sexuality is all of that. And there was
so many times people would say stuff to us like
that's some white people shit, and we would challenge that
and like, no, it's not. You really think people only
started fucking this way within the last three four hundred years. No,
(34:57):
our people who have been spanking each other on the
ass for thousands of years. You know what I'm saying,
Open your mind, you know. So that's what really got
us into like how can we decolonize these ideas and
open up our people's minds and do it in a
beautiful way, Because sometimes when you look at mainstream porn,
it'd be looking like they don't even give motherbuck some
coconut oil to not be ashy on set because they
(35:20):
don't know how to make our bodies look good anyway,
you know what.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
I'm saying, from the lighting to coconut oil, the wigs,
the makeup, you know.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
All of it.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
And having things that reflect our culture, like music that
you actually want to fuck to playing in the background
instead of whatever sounds like you know from back in
the day. We try to make everything that reflects our
culture and who we are stay.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I guess the challenge we have is trying to figure
out a way to make everything they just said funny. Yeah,
how do you dig and navigate the seriousness of this topic.
It's still find room for human other than getting me
to talk to doctor Marty Klein in the segment who
(36:05):
said if i'm I'm gonna paraphrase, but he basically said,
if you're into some ghetto ass porn, it doesn't mean
you're racist in that pornography.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
They're just prejudiced about certain kinds of sexual fantasies.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
These are real titles. Oh my God, a black man
bang my daughter in the ass, Black Bull for Hire,
King Kong's Dean Dong.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
It's a fantasy.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
It's easy to find humor in some in something with
such an outrageous counter point of view, But like, what
were some of the other ways that you were able
to find humor?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
And working with you helps.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You're very good at making depressing subject matters funny, which
is the gift.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
But he I think when.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
People are stupid and say, you know, terrible things, it's
I think it's taking their logic and flipping it on them.
So I think you did a good job of that.
When he was like, it's just a fantasy, like Star
Wars or whatever, and you're like, okay, so let me
get this straight.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Hey, you crack a bit. You got some big ass breads,
well the squeeze up. That would be racist, yes, But
if I had an erection while I said it to it,
that's fantasy. It's a fantasy.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
It's like Star Wars. Porn is like Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's not real.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
When you say those words out of your out there
like he sounds. So I think one way to find
the humor is just like these people that are so
narrow minded, taking their logic and taking it to the
absurd extreme and you know, flipping.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
It to that point. Jasmine and King then to doctor
Marty Klein, it's just fantasy. When do these fantasies cross
a line? Like how like is it about being tactful
and showing only white like if I only want my
white woman with white men? But also do we like
add like like you're not like on YouTube after you
(38:04):
watch three videos, you gotta watch a fifteen second pop up?
Do we show them fifteen seconds of venerracial before they
go back to the Oh?
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah, I think. I think one of the things is
like if you just think about it, if you went
to the Daily Show and was like, I don't want
to work with any Chinese people today, you would not
have a job tomorrow. No, you know what I'm saying.
But in porn people say I'm not working with any
black people and that might not even just mean fucking
(38:32):
someone on camera. That could mean there's no black director
or black key grip or whatever, you know what I'm saying.
So that's one thing. And then also as like, you know,
have you ever heard the term queen of spades?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
No?
Speaker 1 (38:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Later, all right, So queen of spades is some racist
as shit, But it's white women who will only sleep
with black men, and a lot of them they get
this tattoo of a que with a spade. Anytime you
see the letter Q by itself, it's usually a problem.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
So the goddamn alphabet up.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
But but so, but I think the tattoo because it's
it's kind of like this his this whole like a branding.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's it's like a Black Lives but.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
It's it's more like a White Lives Matter shirt in
a way, because you know if someone called if someone
walk up to me and call me a spade in
the street, we fight. You know what I'm saying, Like
spade has been it's it's a racist term. So basically
it's like I'm a queen of spades. So it kind
of goes back to that history that I'm talking about
(39:42):
from the plantation because a lot of times people only
talk about overseers and slave masters raping slaves. Mistresses did
the same thing, you know, So it's rooted in that
same thing, like these black men serve my pleasure, that's it.
None of the black men that they were with are
they talking about his intellect, his creativity, his love for
(40:04):
fine arts. It's literally, he is here to pleasure me,
and that's all the purpose that he serves. And then
going back to the client thing. It's like when you
if you have a fantasy that is rooted in something
that in the world is taking people's lives, it's problematic.
Speaker 6 (40:23):
I like to use people's fantasies as a way of
helping them understand like things outside of their fantasies. Right,
So when I'm working with therapists on how to use
porn in practice, it's like, what does the porn that
you watch? What? What does it say.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
About about you? How do you feel when you watch it? Right?
Speaker 6 (40:41):
Does it you know, if you're only watching this particular style,
why is that? What is it telling you or informing
you about those people? If it's like a specific type
of people that you watch, you know, is it an attraction?
What are you attracted to? Are you fetishizing the person?
Are you letting out an aggression towards that person during
that time? Is it because you're curious and then helping
(41:05):
them explore? What would that fantasy look like outside of
the fantasy. Is there someone at work that you never
speak to but you just go home and like, you know, Google,
I don't know the janitor or something along those lines.
What would that interaction be like? Can you interact with
someone in a way that is not hyper sexualized or fetishized,
(41:26):
or is your only connection, like King said, through these stereotypes.
So you know, there is when when people are sharing,
if they're willing to share about their racist sexual fantasies.
I know we can be so quick to just want
to shut them off and call them racist, and that
would be true, and that is okay. But if you
do have like the capacity to go a little bit further,
(41:48):
it's to you know, help them become curious about why
that is and how that is really shaping their ideas
about these people in reality.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Well you said that janitor thing, and even think of
this this one site. It's like a mental institution and
the men play doctors and the women are patients, right,
And so I got booked for this site, and so
like I go on their Twitter the day before and
they're like shopping for the scene and they're getting stuff
(42:20):
from like home depot. They're getting like you know, like
the big yellow mop tub and stuff like that and
mops and shit, and so I hit my agent. I'm like,
can you ask them what role they have me playing
in this? And then so they were like, you're gonna
be the janitor. It was like never I was gonna
be the first black men on their site, and they
(42:42):
were like, nah, you're gonna play the janitor.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Why can't you be a doctor that also has sex
with the patients unethically. Well, after the break, we're gonna
bring it home and ask a single question, who else
can help y'all make the change and who is responsible
for helping y'all clean up this racism and pulling This
has been a good discussion thus far. Let me do
a little research in a second tab while we go
(43:06):
through this break. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be
right back beyond the scenes. This has been a wonderful conversation.
I knew it would be serious stacy, but I just
didn't know it would be so heavy and rich with
just knowledge and just folks straightening this stuff out. Because
you know, Jasmine, as a therapist, like you have to
(43:29):
approach this from a like you can't. You don't have
the ability to just yell at white people and white
coming up. It's racist and y'all need to stop. You
have to like get into the idiosyncratic aspects of the well,
the finances. It'll make more money. Did you know that
your consumers would also enjoy, like talk a little bit
about that aspect of it, of trying to turn the
(43:50):
corner with people who don't understand just how damaging and
emotionally corrosive this is for everybody who's taking a part
of right.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
So a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (44:00):
One is, I really want to give props to The
Daily Show for doing that segment that was probably risky
even though y'all touch upon a lot of a lot
of controversial topics, you know, when it comes to porn,
that usually is an area that everybody can go like,
you know, we all watch it, but we all pretend
that we don't and that it's dirty and its growth.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
And I use the clip in our.
Speaker 6 (44:22):
Presentations when we're talking about decolonizing sex as well as
educating therapists and medical providers on how they can communicate
with you know, with their clients and using adult entertainment.
So you know, it's like using something that we know
everybody watches the Daily Show and being like, see people
are talking about it in mainstream and you know even
they're able to make the connection. So of course you
(44:43):
can at your higher level make this connection for your
for your folks, and also challenge your own attitudes and
behaviors on sex, specifically by what you watch and how
that perpetuates in your work that you do. But our work,
you know, we draw it out even beyond porn into
sex work, right because people who produce, who perform in
(45:04):
porn and produce porn are sex workers. And it's really
important for us to normalize sex work. So when we
are talking to and we provide education to therapists, medical providers,
even realtors, like how you y'all are missing out on
a population of folks that are looking for safe places
to live.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
And affordable you know, for their money. Take their money.
But in order to take their.
Speaker 6 (45:29):
Money, they have to trust you, right, and you have
to legitimize the work that we're doing and validate us,
and a lot not discriminate. So oftentimes I'm always coming
at it from the perspective of like, we are a
huge population. There's someone in your family that engages in
sex work, and if they don't, they probably will. Looking
(45:52):
at the projections of the economy right now, right, so
go ahead and do something.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
A lot of people are only fans the pandemic hit
only fans. Shut up.
Speaker 5 (46:04):
It shows in we need to go back.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
To bank on that only fans. I've seen them numbers.
I said, Man, let me go and get me some big,
big pills.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
You don't even have to do that.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
Everybody, and there's somebody for everybody.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
There are coins.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I heard Trevor. I heard Trevor Noa was leaving a
daily shot said, man, let me see it. This only fans, no.
Speaker 6 (46:31):
Really, So you know, it's it has been so important
for us to normalize sex work, normalize porn right that
you watch it and you should feel good about watching it.
It's a former entertainment, just like everything else. When you
you know, you should be able to watch it with
the sound on, you should be able to watch it
without being offended. You should be able to find a
reflection of yourself and so really helping the consumer, like
(46:55):
take some charge of what they're consuming. You don't have
to just eat it because it's in front of you.
There is a menu that's out there, and we help
them learn how to shop for it. So you know,
Royal fetishxxx dot com, go check it Royal fetishxx dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Who is responsible for making effective change? You know, we've
talked about the production companies, we talked about the way
a website will take a video that ain't even what
the slug title says, it is just because they know
to get someone to click on it and stay within
the site, so they'll augment the title of something that
(47:32):
a production company made. Or is it the consumer? What
responsibilities do the consumer?
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Like?
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Who is who could help? Who was the next person
to join you? Like when Batman went and got Commissioner
Gordon to help him clean up Gotham? Who is the
next person? Is it the consumer? Is it the production company?
Is it the websites and the distributors? Like I'll start,
I'll start with you King.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I think it's everybody, to be honest, but I think
it's very important the work that we do to inform
the consumer of how to purchase non racist and ethically
made porn. So, you know, if somebody doesn't know that
they can go to Royal Fetish or doesn't know the
other sites that they can go to where they can
find content that is not only you know, pro everybody
(48:20):
in non racist, but also where they can go where
they know that the performers are involved in acts that
they enjoy that they're not there on some you know,
desperation then they'll make the right decision. It's like that
scene with Elijah Muhammad telling Malcolm X, if you choose
between the dirty water and the clean water, people gonna
(48:42):
choose the clean water and people and I might not
want to think of porn as clean and dirty water,
but there is some porn with clean water out there
that you can find that has all the things that
you're looking for, that involve all your fantasies and show
you different routes of pleasure. But you can do it
in an ethical way.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Yea, all parties involved, everybody that is benefiting from from porn.
So the production companies need to stop being lazy, like
fix the template. The scenes need to be more reflective
of the people that are in them and the people
that are watching them, the performers. I definitely feel like
we have a responsibility to have some advocacy, some self
advocacy and draw the picket line somewhere. You know, not
(49:20):
everybody could jump off set, but you could try to negotiate.
You can be upfront with what you're comfortable with before
having that little bit of racism sprinkled on you right
like you mentioned, So go in, go into those situations
already describing you know what your boundaries are. I think
the consumers also need to follow the performers directly. And
(49:44):
you know, I say, the easiest way for the consumers
to engage with work that they could feel good about
is if the performer is promoting it. Usually we're not
going to promote something that didn't make us feel good
on set, or that we're not proud of, or that
we didn't have uh consent in the labeling of it, right,
(50:04):
So you know, if you're going to watch something like,
get to know the performers, and this helps us also
humanize the industry itself. It's like, oh, I like what
King had to say. Okay, go find his work and
look at what he's promoting and purchase that or watch
those scenes, because more than likely we are going to
again promote the things that we feel good about. And
(50:25):
then finally, I do think it is the advertisers. They're
making money off of our backs, but they're not willing
to hear our demands. So it is really important that
advertiserstop pouring money into sites that arenowledged won't acknowledge that
this stuff is problematic and that it needs to be removed.
So yeah, and if you see stuff like the same
way you can. I think for consumers, I don't want
(50:45):
to put so much responsibility when people are anxious to
have an orgasm that they have to stop and write
a letter before they can engage in the work, right.
But one of the things that you can do, the
way that we touch all forms of social media and
content is like don't like it, like report it right,
or just put a thumbs down and keep it moving
(51:07):
if you have to. So it's a small way, but
it lets people know that are putting the shit out
that it's like, oh, this didn't do so well, something
about it. Maybe I should take the you know, racial
slur out of it.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
You know what we need, Stacy, we need we need
like a ethical, ethical poorn logo. You know how they
got that recycled logo.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Like the organic like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
You didn't murder nobody to make this product and then yeah,
I see. Well, thank you all so much. That's all
the time we have for today. Thank you to our
guest Stacy King Jasmine. Thank you all for going beyond
the scenes with me.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Open up these tabs that I had minimized real quick
play the theme music. Oh. Listen to the Daily Show
beyond the scenes on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, welcome to Beyond the Scenes, the podcast that goes
deeper into segments and topics that originally aired on The
Daily Show. That this is what you gotta think about
this podcast as it's like, this podcast is like a
secret family recipe. We get all the ingredients to make
that homemade dish that only your mama knows how to make,
and she refuses to write it down or pass it
(00:27):
on to anybody because she don't want y'all to be
happy after she dies. And you could really do the
recipe justice, but you know, but your mama be hating good.
It is what it is. So yeah, that's what this
podcast is. I'm Roywood Jr. And today we're talking about
a segment we filmed back in twenty sixteen that asked
a very important question. It's the porn industry racist. Roll
(00:51):
the clip, Well, no, not that porn clip, roll a
Daily Show clip about porn. Don't roll a.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Port a female can say yayny to a person just
because of the color riskin. Black men are particularly portrayed
in porn as being thugs, criminals, What.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Are you black men?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
House?
Speaker 3 (01:15):
Black women are portrayed as extremely ghetto.
Speaker 5 (01:19):
The titles are racists itself.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The porn industry will take anything painful to black people
and just add a pair of titties, Black wives matter,
twelve inches of slave help.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
They even remade.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Roots girls be killed around here. Anybody that would say
that there is racism and porn really needs to be
slapped out of.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Today. I'm joined by segment director Stacy Angele's who helped
produce this piece. Stacy, how you doing, old friend?
Speaker 5 (01:53):
I'm great.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
Roy always love talking about porn with you.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, thank you. I'm happy that you're the only person
I talk about form with at work as well. Hello, Hr,
I know you're listening. Also joining us for this conversation
our adult entertainers, life partners and business partners. They're co
creators of the adult film production company Royal Fetish Films.
She is a licensed clinical therapist. Please welcome jet Setting
(02:20):
Jasmine to the program, Jet Setting, How you doing, Madam,
Jet Madam Sutton mad okay, we'll take it. And also
your partner in business and your partner in real life,
King Noir King, how you doing?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Pace. It's good to be here now.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
I'm excited to hear about some stories of racism, because
you know that's what I love talking about as a
black person. But first, Stacey, I know how this piece
kind of came to be. I don't remember who else
was in on the inception of it, but I do
remember Trayvon Free coming into my office and he just goes, hey, man,
(03:01):
you want to meet Misty Stone. Well, but sure, why not?
I'll keep in mind. Up until that point, the pieces
I had done were police reform, the twentieth anniversary of
the Million Man March, embedding on the election. I was
so happy just to do something that was just completely
(03:21):
off the wall. And if I recall, you were relatively
new to the show, So what did you think when
they brought this piece to you?
Speaker 3 (03:29):
No, I was super new, and so it was my
going to be my third piece. So I think there
were five pieces floating around. And obviously I got drawn
to porn because everybody loves porn, Even people who say
they don't watch porn love porn. But then I saw
the story and I was like, oh, this is a
little bit darker because Trayvon sent me an article that
was like, white women were demanding more pay to sleep
(03:50):
with black men, And as discussing as that was, it
was shocking to me because I don't know, maybe I'm naive,
but when I think of the porn industry, I always
think of like sexual fruit, be open mindedness. I never
thought that it would be something that had so many
boundaries or whatever. And then when I was researching more
on it, I saw that not only is it racist,
(04:11):
they're like capitalizing on it with the titles and the premises,
and it seemed like a narrative that they were kind
of getting away with. And also I never worked with Roy,
and so it was my first piece with Roy, so
I was very excited about that.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, but what did you find most surprising? Because I'll
be honest, like when I was doing a little bit
of the research going into you know, for the listeners.
As a correspondent, it's very important that you get the
backstory on the topic that you're researching because it makes
you a better, a more adept interviewer when you're speaking
with your seeing partners, if you will, for this particular
(04:48):
that we'll call them see, but the people you're interviewing,
you want to know what the hell you're talking about, right,
And so I just remember seeing all of these random
racist peorn titles. We had a researcher Devin Devin Leary
who was with the show at the time, and she
had to watch hours of porn and find the stereotypes
so that we could find the jokes in him.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
And so her desk was so popular.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Like twelve twelve years a Slave, like like just parodies
of just popular films. They were just like, yeah, let's
flip that into a porn. So was there anything that
shocked you about this shoot?
Speaker 3 (05:26):
I was gonna mention Devin Leary because's she did all
the research and she was the second producer at the time.
She's amazing. And I said, you know, we need to
find a bunch of porn that has that really banks
on all those stereotypes of black people being criminals, breaking in, thugs,
you know whatever. And I was thinking she might have
to dig deep, like baby, and it was like instant,
(05:48):
She's like, oh my god, I found one. And the
titles were not even the titles aren't even subtle. They're
just like, oh no, a black man broke into my house.
Oh no, there's a black man inside my wife, Like
they were just it was an an embarrassment of riches
and it just it was just like so much she
almost gave me too much stuff. And then that was
like insanely surprising to me. And then the second thing
(06:10):
that was really surprising was hearing things white women were
more willing to do over having sex with the black men,
like triple anal penetration and prostitution and everything was shocking because,
like I was saying earlier, I really thought I had.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
Maybe I am not.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Even that white girls will ask for double, triple quadruble
the amount to do an interracial scene.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
This seems to be the only industry where a white
person could just straight up go, I ain't working with
no black people today. You couldn't do that. If you
work at a fast food spot, you could just go,
who's cooking? Stanley? Oh baby, you got to pay me
time and a half if I'm gonna be working with
these negroes. Jasmine, give me the first time you were
(07:00):
on set and you know, like when you're in the
middle of racism, like when racism in progress and you
just be sitting there talking to yourself. Can you know
what I'm talking about too? You just be like, and
my experience in this field though, Okay, Jasmine, just hold
the chicken and biscuit in your hand and been over
okay and action. He's like, wait a minute, did you
just ask me to hole a chicken wing and a biscuit?
(07:22):
Like walk us through, you know, both of you walk
us through that first time that you discovered the level
of discrimination that existed in the industry or were you
put up on game about that from the jump?
Speaker 6 (07:35):
So I think we're both going to be able to
give you a range of examples. And so for me,
I was put up on jump Like the reason why
royal fetish films exist is because as a consumer of porn,
I was like, I can't First of all, I can't
watch it and listen to you know, I can't listen
to the fake blacks, and I can't listen to the
(07:55):
stereotypical tropes. I can't listen to the chicken and biscuit jokes.
It became a form of entertainment for me. That was like,
if I'm enjoying this is something wrong with me and
I'm not enjoying it, So why am I watching it?
Speaker 5 (08:09):
Now? Where am I gonna go to get inspiration to masturbate? Right?
Speaker 6 (08:12):
So, when King and I started working together, it was like,
we need to create something that we could feel proud
to watch. And we were hearing this from We're already
doing sex education, hosting parties, and we were already hearing
this like, I don't watch porn specifically from black women
because we don't see ourselves reflected. It's degrading. It's hard
to feel sexy when you are seeing the lowest representation
(08:36):
of yourself and your people. So I already knew like
whatever we created was gonna be something that I wanted
to watch. Now that being said, as we started to
become more popular, at least for me, people were starting
to ask me to shoot for their company. And so
I come from in this industry, from a privileged space
where I can say like, no, thank you. That sounds
like I'm going to be sitting there in exactly how
(08:58):
you describe, like in the middle of some racism, and
so I was able to say kind of no right
off the back. They're like, oh, well, the scene is
gonna call for you to do some twerking. Nothing's wrong
with twerking, but you've never seen me twerk. Why would
you be casting me for that? Like, I'm probably not
the best person. Like, if you want to see great
point of toes in some modern dance like sign me up,
(09:20):
but for twerking. You know, you're just kind of making
an assumption that because I'm back and I do porn,
that that's what you're gonna get, right.
Speaker 5 (09:28):
So, but I will say that what I.
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Have seen, and I've worked enough corporate jobs and for
government agencies to know that sort of like baseline of
racism that's there. I look at where the bottom line,
where the dollars roll, and I've found that my white
counterparts were getting money for hair, for makeup, and for
costuming when they shoot. And for me, it was like,
make sure you bring your own makeup kit and you know,
(09:53):
we'll do something with your hair. You know, you have
that style that's so edgy, and bring a couple this okay,
bring a couple, bring a couple of outfits, and we'll
choose from what you have. And then later to find
out that this is a line item where my white
counterparts shoot. You know, so there are there's that there's
(10:14):
also I have found, Like even leading into this interview,
I was like, let me just go, let me google myself,
Let me google myself and the N word, and cause
I know I don't say it, so somebody had to
put it out there, and a lot of my scenes
have been licensed using words that I did not agree to. Now,
since those are a lot of those scenes are older ones,
(10:36):
since we got even further up on game, we now
make it a part of our contract that they cannot
sell our scenes using any type of derogatory language, because
a lot of times you might be thinking that you're
shooting for a company that has your best interest in
mind and that sees you as whoever you are, and
then you know, three times around, you're in Germany as
the black nigger girl torques on Big Black Dick or
(11:00):
not definitely wouldn't say husband in criminal.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah yeah, or ghetto women give blow jobs to pay
their power bill, Like it's always like why they need
the money in the discript so I've heard. I've never
been in any the sites.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think also with with a lot of the times
when it comes to just that open mindedness of the
industry that Stacey had just mentioned, it might be open
minded for the white performers, like there's a certain level
of freedom that they have even within their titles, but
within the black titles there's this whole desperation that is
(11:40):
also put with it as well. And for me, I
have experienced all the way from the subtle racism to
the I've been called nigger on set before you know,
I was at in the scene. No, it wasn't even
in the scene. I was a random crew member. No,
it was another performer. She wanted to have sex with
(12:03):
me off camera after our scene, and I was like, nah,
I got things to do. I was actually about to
call Jasmine and check in on the family, and she
catches an attitude and messages. We had the same agent,
and she messaged the agent King is being an uppity
nigger to my agent, he won't have sex with me
(12:28):
off camera. And you know what uppity mean. When they
call you uppity, that just mean you're not doing what
white folks want you to do.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yeah, they trying to break you exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
The company tried to tell me that I should still
film with her. I basically had to tell them nothing
that I shot with her should ever be released. I
had them signed like I wrote some shit on a
paper right there and was like, y'all signing this, y'all
never releasing this, or there's gonna be a problem. So
then they tried to tell other people in the industry
not to work with me because I because I'm a problem,
(12:59):
because I don't want to be called a nigger by
my costa.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But if she's a white woman, she holds more power
than you in the industry because white women are kind
of the Golden Geese fiscally speaking for a lot of
these production companies.
Speaker 6 (13:10):
Right, So I want to challenge that roy The perception,
right is that white women are the golden the Geese state.
And I think that that's where it's the reflection of
society in the industry. But when you look at what
the top selling genre is, it's interracial. You cannot have
you know, a white woman alone is not making the
(13:30):
top dollar. When you look at the top searches, it's
interracial Hentie Milf, right, So there are certain subsets of
the people that are participating in the industry that actually
are the clickbait they are, you know. So this idea
that you know, white women have specific power in the industry,
(13:50):
it's more of a reflection of our largest society and
how we see them as you know, without without fault,
to be protected, to be up lifted, to be you know,
held in this prize position. But if we look at
the bottom line, they need to sleep with someone other
than themselves to bring in the highest number of clicks,
advertisements and money.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
What is the dynamic on set though? Like if you
writing Cease and Desists on the back of a napkin
on set, what is the hr situation in that? Like, Okay,
let me break it down, because all I know is
like is like acting on a set. And there were
some time years ago I played an extra. I played
(14:32):
a slave in the background of a Civil War reenactment.
This is like ninety seven. It's my first ever television credit.
And we're all dressed like slaves and it's, you know,
showing union sould just what buying. The director comes over
and goes, you know, could you guys mime like you're
clapping like he wanted us basically to be doing like
some humming and singing around the fire, like singing slave hymnals.
(14:56):
And we all kind of looked at each other and
it was like, yo, no, just I don't want to
I'm already dressed like a slave, my man, Just let
me just sit here and just chill. How much do
you get to challenge when they try to add a
little do they try to, like you agree to one thing,
and then you get on set and they try and
flip the script. King, Like, has there ever been a
scenario where they try to come in and sprinkle a
(15:17):
little race? You mind?
Speaker 4 (15:19):
King?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
I love what you're doing, but let me put a
little racism on top of it, real quick, let's do
it again.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
I mean, those are the times when you have to
make a business decision where it's like, am I comfortable
with this? Am I walking off set? Am I going
to deal with whatever backlash is going to follow?
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You walked off set?
Speaker 4 (15:40):
I have walked off set. I have definitely walked off set.
I have had That's what I said. I've dealt with
so many It's sometimes it be that type of racism
where it's like I have a lot of black friends.
I grew up with black friends. Like just recently, I
had this thing where he was this is the director.
This isn't like another but for this the director. The
(16:00):
first time I ever went into somebody's house and it
smelled like Chitlin's, I'm like, what what does that have
to do with anything that we're doing?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Now?
Speaker 4 (16:09):
You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 5 (16:11):
We haven't smelled chin in the house.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Don't you know what?
Speaker 4 (16:15):
I'm saying so, but it's like stuff like that, and
it did wind up having to It led to a
conversation that I was like, I might never work for
this company again, but I need to have this conversation
in a way that's not gonna completely make them be like,
you know, angry black man, but they gotta stop. And
it had kind of led to this thing where I
(16:35):
can't go. He was talking about Atlanta, like some neighborhood.
He was like, you know, white people can't go there,
And I was like, where where in America can't white
people go? Y'all own stuff? You gotta go. You gotta
go to the hood to collect your rent, or there's
a burger king there, or there's whatever. You know what
I'm saying, There's no place in America that you can't go.
But I know if I'm a My Aubrey and I'm
(16:57):
running through a neighborhood, I know I can't be there.
I can't go Benson Hurst, I can't go to Sundowntown's.
That's that's our reality. That's not your reality, but it's
shaped that way. So I had to have this conversation
on set with the director and I knew, like and
at this point, it's just like I'm not in the
I'm not in the mood to fuck after this. I
(17:18):
am I know, like I'm like, look, it's noth's not
gonna happen to shoot exactly. It's not gonna happen today.
And and trying to explain that, like you sometimes will
have to it's not gonna happen for me. And you
don't always have to. Sometimes you're gonna have to put
it like I can't work with you. But sometimes you
(17:38):
just gotta. You gotta take that l And that's a
tough part about our industry because there isn't an HR
department that I could say, hey, you know, who are
you gonna go to with most of these companies, these
these are their own companies or these directors are also
the heads and owners of their company.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
Is there a union? Part of me if this is
an ignorant question, but is there like an actors union
for adult entertainers?
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Two?
Speaker 6 (18:04):
There there are some organizations if there's a free speech
coalition that works to uphold some forms of advocacy for performers,
and there's also a guild, but it's very very loose.
I mean, part of the issue is that the porn
industry is stigmatized from the rest.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Of the workforce.
Speaker 6 (18:25):
I mean, we literally have a hashtag that sex work
is work.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Right.
Speaker 6 (18:28):
The only time that we're really recognized as being a part,
a fiscal part of the society is taxes. That's the
only time, you know, it's that what goes into our
bank and what comes out for taxes. But trying to
uphold like a discrimination to sexual harassment and those type
of things, Think about what court are we bringing that to.
(18:49):
That also validates that what we're doing is work, that
what we're doing is consensual, that what we're doing is moral.
Just sort of thinking about the pandemic that we are
that we're still in. I know everyone else is out
of it, But there were the PPEP loans that came
out for people who you know, had businesses we're trying
(19:09):
to keep their employees working. We have a full production
company that we wanted to sustain over the pandemic and
keep people working. But the morality clause, there's literally a
morality clause in these loans that although we are tax paying,
legally producing producing content, paying our taxes, et cetera, et cetera,
(19:30):
we don't fall into the requirements and so, you know,
because the structures that are supposed to be able to
support us with taking whether these are claims up for discrimination, hell,
hate crimes if you will, right being called a nigger
on set, sexual harassment, any type of harassment, or the
financial discrimination that I talked about, where my co stars
(19:53):
are getting paid more for the same work, if not
less than what I'm doing.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
It's really difficult.
Speaker 6 (19:58):
It's even difficult to find a sex worker front attorney
that'll take up your clause.
Speaker 5 (20:02):
So we are really off.
Speaker 6 (20:04):
It's like a marginalized industry with marginalized people within that industry.
It's like we're in the margins of the margin, Stacey.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
We I know. Within the piece, we talked a little
bit about, you know, how the porn industry perpetuates racist stereotypes,
you know, in the present. The thing that I hated
was that we really weren't able to get deeper into
the history of porn, you know, in terms of the
roots of the racism and all of the other different
(20:32):
talk to me a little bit about some of the
pieces and parts that that we wish we would have
had space. Well, for the record, I pitched Porn Part two,
but then Trump got elected, and you know, we had
we had different priorities within the building.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I mean I remember initially reading a pitch about it,
being like, we wanted to make this like the civil
rights movement of the porn industry, making you like the
Martin Luther king of it and trying to you were
trying to like, yeah, I think it was like trying
(21:06):
to inspire white women to sleep with black men, to
you know, end that stigma.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
Everybody though, because that was the oh you just brought
it up.
Speaker 5 (21:13):
Wait, there was also a hashtag.
Speaker 3 (21:16):
I think there was like a hashtag Black Dongs Matter,
Like there was like, yeah, I remember like a bunch
of absurd ideas that like popped up.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
There was a problem. Black people are constantly being portrayed
as criminals, sexual predators. Porn companies aren't doing anything to
change it. So I am for limited time only see
black people getting portrayed positively in my new porn series
Affirmative Actions, starring me Goodwood Junior.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
The Horny.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I'm busy. I've run a fortune five hundred company. I
did not have time to come home and just banged
you repeatedly. We only had time to focus on black
discrimination but then there's also the issue of Asians, you know,
being presented as submissive. Yeah, and just oh, I'm so quiet,
(22:07):
and Islamophobia being a big part of it. And then oh,
you're not light skinned black, You're Latino. Pretend to be
a Mexican. So that's.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
That happens to me all the time. They'd be like,
can you play Puerto Rican?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
What does that?
Speaker 4 (22:28):
Puerto Ricans are black too, they just were colonized by
a different language.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
What what do you want me to do? And then
they sex differently. Do you talk with an accent or
la chica? I am, yeah, but they don't they if
that's a terrible Puerto Rican, please don't cancel man Puerto Rican.
Speaker 6 (22:48):
And we can't even so for for example, I'm Filipino
and Panamane.
Speaker 5 (22:53):
Oh my god, me too.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Sorry, didn't mean to interrupt on Filipino.
Speaker 6 (22:59):
So, but you would be casting you wouldn't be cast
it as Filipino, and neither am I. You know, I
and I'm fine, like I know, I'm a black Filipino
and a black Panamanian. But when people ask me, like,
you know, what should we put here? And then when
it comes out, it's still like black lady, black lady.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
You know can I I'm so sorry this has been
like lingering over my mind. King when you were talking
about that offensive woman whatever her name is, I don't remember.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
We don't have to name her.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
How the hell do you perform with someone after they
throw all these offensive racist remarks at you? How do
you perform with them on camera after that?
Speaker 1 (23:39):
I don't, I.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
Don't personally for me, like I said, with that particular situation,
they had to remove her from the follow up shoots.
But the and it's funny you mentioned Puerto Rican because
when we I was shooting the rest of the scene,
like another part of this of this film with two
(24:01):
other performers, one who was there for when she said,
well when the whole thing happened, and the other who
they brought in to replace her, and then the director
yells cut and then one of the women said, why
did you get mad? I thought you were Puerto Rican
and yo o and that and that was the end
(24:25):
of my working period, like like literally in the middle
of fucking I was like, I'm done, I'm done. I
can't do this no more. And the craziest ship is
they shoot in Iowa. So I had to get out
of Iowa. Oh God, after this, after this racist situation,
and there's nobody to there's nobody to connect with Iowa.
(24:47):
After you go through some racist ship. You can't just
talk to the brother next to you because he ain't dead.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
Let me find out they got some porn studios in Iowa. Man,
I've been going to the.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
It's like in those kind of situations where I said, like,
it's like you're gonna have to make a not only
a business decision, but there's a certain decision that you
have to make for your own humanity. And it's like, Nah,
y'all gonna have to pay me to kill fee for
this shoot because this isn't this isn't appropriate, this is
a bad situation. I'm y'all don't deserve my dick no more.
(25:20):
I gotta go.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
That's what I tell women too. After the break, I
want to get a little bit more into the work
that you all are doing at Royal Fetish Films and
how you all are helping to solve this problem. And
we need to talk a little bit about your boy
Marty Klein Stacey, who was in the segment that's not
my boy. Well, you the one found them. I didn't
(25:43):
want to interview telling about it's not racism if you
don't want to watch black people on camera. Having said, whatever, Marty,
we're getting to that after the break. This is beyond
the scenes. We'll be right back beyond the scenes. We
are talking about racism and porn. A little segment that
I did back in twenty sixteen, shot some of the
(26:03):
interviews out there. I didn't know this King and Jasmine.
I didn't know that they liked that the porn industry
y'all ran out a nice, big, six bedroom house. Each
bedroom is a different universe of a set, and there's
just multiple adult films being shot concurrently, all in one house.
And I was like, wow, this is a That was
like the most shocking thing, like because I don't know why,
(26:25):
just growing up watching porn, I just always thought that
was somebody's real house. Like the concept of a film
set did not register. I thought they were just shooting
at somebody's crib.
Speaker 5 (26:37):
Actually, me too, that's good, that's good.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Into the movie magic right there.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah. I was like that look like a roach on
the wall. I know what, I know where that house.
Speaker 5 (26:50):
You're not on theirbnbs don't always be clean.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Now you want to know something that's really well. I've
seen a poem one time. I've been in so many
hotels rooms over my twenty five years of comedy, i
can tell the hotel by the quilt pattern, and I've
been like, oh, no, that's a Hampton n I'd be
staying at Hampton in But let's talk about royal fetish
(27:15):
films and the work that you all are hoping to
accomplish with that company, because you know the first thing
I want to do, let's set the table and just
talk about the history of discrimination and racism and porn
and white women saying they make less money if they
have sex with a black person, and what it is
exactly you all are trying to undo with your film company.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So I think a lot of times people like to
compartmentalize whatever industry it is, whether it's porn or music
or Hollywood film, whatever it is, and think that the
racism that exists within it is somehow specific to just
that industry. But it always goes back to the same shit.
(27:59):
You know, America is born, rooted and grew up on racism.
You know, America's number one industry was our ancestors here.
You know, like just running through the numbers of our worth,
our ancestors worth being worth more than the country and
the currency of this country, going back to the eighteen hundreds, right.
(28:23):
But the important part to think about with the stereotypes
that we see in porn is that those stereotypes were
born and how they sold us, how they purchased us,
and the fact that, for example, like in Virginia and Maryland,
their number one export, if you will, and crop was
our ancestors was black folk, and they have breeding plantations.
(28:45):
So like a lot of times people talk about tobacco,
rice and cotton, but America also had breeding plantations that
they sold our ancestors on, and they had specific ways
that they did it. So like for example, black men
were a lot of times specifically purchased by the size
of our penis because whatever these racist slave owners back
(29:08):
in the day, they were like, oh, he'll probably make
more babies because his penis is bigger, or whatever the
fuck they thought.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
On some horse scallion type shit.
Speaker 4 (29:16):
Exactly exactly. And you know, so that is one stereotype
that we see to this day because if you look
at just percentages across the planet, man Dick's range, there's
big and small of all races. But the perception of
black men's penises being larger is because for however long
these white men just sat there with black men on
(29:37):
a stage, looking at us butt naked and trying to
select our dick size. The shit has been imprinted on
their brain because that's what they look for in us.
It's also what they fear in us because they have
raped so many black women, black men, and black children
over this time. You know, when you look at just
the history of film and the history of entertainment. First ever,
(29:58):
you know, popular groundbreaking film, they say is Birth of
a Nation, you know, and Birth of a Nation was
all about the klue klus Klan stopping black men from
raping white women. Mandingo was all about a slave owner
who goes on a trip and was afraid that the
mistress of the house was going to sleep with his
slave Mandingo because he had been raping all these black
(30:19):
women on the plantation. And this is American popular culture.
First popular culture in music was menstrual music, black white
people in black face imitating us. So all of this
stuff culminates important because these fantasies have been stuck in
the head for hundreds of years so now they get
to put out twelve inches of slave as a thing
(30:39):
for just like had you mentioned for twelve years of
slave or this fear of any kind of movement that
we have in a positive direction where you saw like
that film that was called Black Wives Matter. These feelings
and perceptions, Yeah, they're rooted in all of these fears
(30:59):
in race ideas that they've had of us for years
and years. And if you look at a lot of
the stereotypes of black people, they are also based on
what they did to us on the plantation and kind
of how they manifest themselves in the world today.
Speaker 6 (31:16):
So I think something that's really important when you said, like,
what are we doing to fix this? Hopefully the work
that we do, I hope that changes the industry, but
so much more important to us is helping us realize
our range of sex and sexuality. And I say our
black and brown people who also are terribly impacted by
(31:38):
these stereotypes, not just from like oh, I can't find
anything to watch im porn, but I don't have any
reflection of what I'm supposed to be like sexually. You know,
we talk about folks that are on some of these
sets and can't walk off that they don't have, you know,
the means to be able to make that type of
financial decision, how that leaves their psyche. We deserve to
(32:01):
be a part of this industry just like anyone else.
If this is how we would like to monetize our bodies.
Some people want to type for a living, some people
want to you know, play sports, act what have you.
We choose to have sex and to do sexual acts
for a living. We deserve to be in this industry
without harm. We want our population to be able to
(32:22):
type in you know, black couples and romance BDSM, kinky,
black and kinky and see something where they are not
the fetish, that there's an actual act of kink and
fetish of sex that doesn't have to be degrading, that
doesn't fall into these racist tropes. That allows us to
see other types of bodies interacting with each other, people
(32:46):
from different walks of life, you know, just so many
different expressions that unfortunately we don't see. The other work
that we're doing at Royal Fetish Films are we are
sticking it to these larger companies. We're going on their
pages and we are consulting with them and letting them,
letting helping them understand that if you can't see it
for yourself, see it for your bottom line, your your
(33:07):
search engines, all your algorithms show that people want to
see us in film. And when I look at your
site and you know, point me to your premium content
or your front page, all I see are white women
that are of a certain uh, certain size and appear
to be of a certain age, a younger age, and
(33:28):
that is that's a mismatch. You're not even marketing to
your consumers. You're not marketing to what people are are
looking for. We're challenging them to see the black dollar
in the adult industry. It's important for us to help
our people be represented, to see themselves because the way
that you what.
Speaker 5 (33:47):
You see important.
Speaker 6 (33:49):
We know that it's a primary source of sex education
because there is no sex education in this country. So
you know, if people are going to learn there, I
want to make sure that my interactions, my sexual interactions,
aren't based on somebody's terrible education that they got from
you know, the front.
Speaker 5 (34:06):
Page of one of these tube sites.
Speaker 6 (34:09):
If people are going to learn that this is this
is how I have sex, like, it's important in our
films where we are showing people are having conversation about
what kind of sex actually want to participate, that you
have autonomy of your body that you you know, can
be bound and suspended and checked on.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
And showing that on camera and showing that as part
of the scene yep, and not in consent and intimacy
and closeness and conversation through the actual process of intercourse.
Speaker 4 (34:37):
I mean, our ship ranges from SAFI or sexual all
the way to like hardcore BDSM and everything in between,
because black sexuality is all of that. And there was
so many times people would say stuff to us like
that's some white people shit, and we would challenge that
and like, no, it's not. You really think people only
started fucking this way within the last three four hundred years. No,
(34:57):
our people who have been spanking each other on the
ass for thousands of years. You know what I'm saying,
Open your mind, you know. So that's what really got
us into like how can we decolonize these ideas and
open up our people's minds and do it in a
beautiful way, Because sometimes when you look at mainstream porn,
it'd be looking like they don't even give motherbuck some
coconut oil to not be ashy on set because they
(35:20):
don't know how to make our bodies look good anyway,
you know what.
Speaker 6 (35:22):
I'm saying, from the lighting to coconut oil, the wigs,
the makeup, you know.
Speaker 5 (35:28):
All of it.
Speaker 4 (35:29):
And having things that reflect our culture, like music that
you actually want to fuck to playing in the background
instead of whatever sounds like you know from back in
the day. We try to make everything that reflects our
culture and who we are stay.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I guess the challenge we have is trying to figure
out a way to make everything they just said funny. Yeah,
how do you dig and navigate the seriousness of this topic.
It's still find room for human other than getting me
to talk to doctor Marty Klein in the segment who
(36:05):
said if i'm I'm gonna paraphrase, but he basically said,
if you're into some ghetto ass porn, it doesn't mean
you're racist in that pornography.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
They're just prejudiced about certain kinds of sexual fantasies.
Speaker 1 (36:20):
These are real titles. Oh my God, a black man
bang my daughter in the ass, Black Bull for Hire,
King Kong's Dean Dong.
Speaker 4 (36:29):
It's a fantasy.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
It's easy to find humor in some in something with
such an outrageous counter point of view, But like, what
were some of the other ways that you were able
to find humor?
Speaker 5 (36:43):
And working with you helps.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
You're very good at making depressing subject matters funny, which
is the gift.
Speaker 5 (36:50):
But he I think when.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
People are stupid and say, you know, terrible things, it's
I think it's taking their logic and flipping it on them.
So I think you did a good job of that.
When he was like, it's just a fantasy, like Star
Wars or whatever, and you're like, okay, so let me
get this straight.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Hey, you crack a bit. You got some big ass breads,
well the squeeze up. That would be racist, yes, But
if I had an erection while I said it to it,
that's fantasy. It's a fantasy.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
It's like Star Wars. Porn is like Star Wars.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
It's not real.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
When you say those words out of your out there
like he sounds. So I think one way to find
the humor is just like these people that are so
narrow minded, taking their logic and taking it to the
absurd extreme and you know, flipping.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
It to that point. Jasmine and King then to doctor
Marty Klein, it's just fantasy. When do these fantasies cross
a line? Like how like is it about being tactful
and showing only white like if I only want my
white woman with white men? But also do we like
add like like you're not like on YouTube after you
(38:04):
watch three videos, you gotta watch a fifteen second pop up?
Do we show them fifteen seconds of venerracial before they
go back to the Oh?
Speaker 4 (38:12):
Yeah, I think. I think one of the things is
like if you just think about it, if you went
to the Daily Show and was like, I don't want
to work with any Chinese people today, you would not
have a job tomorrow. No, you know what I'm saying.
But in porn people say I'm not working with any
black people and that might not even just mean fucking
(38:32):
someone on camera. That could mean there's no black director
or black key grip or whatever, you know what I'm saying.
So that's one thing. And then also as like, you know,
have you ever heard the term queen of spades?
Speaker 3 (38:47):
Uh?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
No?
Speaker 1 (38:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (38:47):
Later, all right, So queen of spades is some racist
as shit, But it's white women who will only sleep
with black men, and a lot of them they get
this tattoo of a que with a spade. Anytime you
see the letter Q by itself, it's usually a problem.
Speaker 5 (39:03):
So the goddamn alphabet up.
Speaker 4 (39:08):
But but so, but I think the tattoo because it's
it's kind of like this his this whole like a branding.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It's it's like a Black Lives but.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
It's it's more like a White Lives Matter shirt in
a way, because you know if someone called if someone
walk up to me and call me a spade in
the street, we fight. You know what I'm saying, Like
spade has been it's it's a racist term. So basically
it's like I'm a queen of spades. So it kind
of goes back to that history that I'm talking about
(39:42):
from the plantation because a lot of times people only
talk about overseers and slave masters raping slaves. Mistresses did
the same thing, you know, So it's rooted in that
same thing, like these black men serve my pleasure, that's it.
None of the black men that they were with are
they talking about his intellect, his creativity, his love for
(40:04):
fine arts. It's literally, he is here to pleasure me,
and that's all the purpose that he serves. And then
going back to the client thing. It's like when you
if you have a fantasy that is rooted in something
that in the world is taking people's lives, it's problematic.
Speaker 6 (40:23):
I like to use people's fantasies as a way of
helping them understand like things outside of their fantasies. Right,
So when I'm working with therapists on how to use
porn in practice, it's like, what does the porn that
you watch? What? What does it say.
Speaker 5 (40:38):
About about you? How do you feel when you watch it? Right?
Speaker 6 (40:41):
Does it you know, if you're only watching this particular style,
why is that? What is it telling you or informing
you about those people? If it's like a specific type
of people that you watch, you know, is it an attraction?
What are you attracted to? Are you fetishizing the person?
Are you letting out an aggression towards that person during
that time? Is it because you're curious and then helping
(41:05):
them explore? What would that fantasy look like outside of
the fantasy. Is there someone at work that you never
speak to but you just go home and like, you know, Google,
I don't know the janitor or something along those lines.
What would that interaction be like? Can you interact with
someone in a way that is not hyper sexualized or fetishized,
(41:26):
or is your only connection, like King said, through these stereotypes.
So you know, there is when when people are sharing,
if they're willing to share about their racist sexual fantasies.
I know we can be so quick to just want
to shut them off and call them racist, and that
would be true, and that is okay. But if you
do have like the capacity to go a little bit further,
(41:48):
it's to you know, help them become curious about why
that is and how that is really shaping their ideas
about these people in reality.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
Well you said that janitor thing, and even think of
this this one site. It's like a mental institution and
the men play doctors and the women are patients, right,
And so I got booked for this site, and so
like I go on their Twitter the day before and
they're like shopping for the scene and they're getting stuff
(42:20):
from like home depot. They're getting like you know, like
the big yellow mop tub and stuff like that and
mops and shit, and so I hit my agent. I'm like,
can you ask them what role they have me playing
in this? And then so they were like, you're gonna
be the janitor. It was like never I was gonna
be the first black men on their site, and they
(42:42):
were like, nah, you're gonna play the janitor.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Why can't you be a doctor that also has sex
with the patients unethically. Well, after the break, we're gonna
bring it home and ask a single question, who else
can help y'all make the change and who is responsible
for helping y'all clean up this racism and pulling This
has been a good discussion thus far. Let me do
a little research in a second tab while we go
(43:06):
through this break. This is beyond the scenes. We'll be
right back beyond the scenes. This has been a wonderful conversation.
I knew it would be serious stacy, but I just
didn't know it would be so heavy and rich with
just knowledge and just folks straightening this stuff out. Because
you know, Jasmine, as a therapist, like you have to
(43:29):
approach this from a like you can't. You don't have
the ability to just yell at white people and white
coming up. It's racist and y'all need to stop. You
have to like get into the idiosyncratic aspects of the well,
the finances. It'll make more money. Did you know that
your consumers would also enjoy, like talk a little bit
about that aspect of it, of trying to turn the
(43:50):
corner with people who don't understand just how damaging and
emotionally corrosive this is for everybody who's taking a part
of right.
Speaker 5 (43:59):
So a couple of things.
Speaker 6 (44:00):
One is, I really want to give props to The
Daily Show for doing that segment that was probably risky
even though y'all touch upon a lot of a lot
of controversial topics, you know, when it comes to porn,
that usually is an area that everybody can go like,
you know, we all watch it, but we all pretend
that we don't and that it's dirty and its growth.
Speaker 5 (44:19):
And I use the clip in our.
Speaker 6 (44:22):
Presentations when we're talking about decolonizing sex as well as
educating therapists and medical providers on how they can communicate
with you know, with their clients and using adult entertainment.
So you know, it's like using something that we know
everybody watches the Daily Show and being like, see people
are talking about it in mainstream and you know even
they're able to make the connection. So of course you
(44:43):
can at your higher level make this connection for your
for your folks, and also challenge your own attitudes and
behaviors on sex, specifically by what you watch and how
that perpetuates in your work that you do. But our work,
you know, we draw it out even beyond porn into
sex work, right because people who produce, who perform in
(45:04):
porn and produce porn are sex workers. And it's really
important for us to normalize sex work. So when we
are talking to and we provide education to therapists, medical providers,
even realtors, like how you y'all are missing out on
a population of folks that are looking for safe places
to live.
Speaker 5 (45:25):
And affordable you know, for their money. Take their money.
But in order to take their.
Speaker 6 (45:29):
Money, they have to trust you, right, and you have
to legitimize the work that we're doing and validate us,
and a lot not discriminate. So oftentimes I'm always coming
at it from the perspective of like, we are a
huge population. There's someone in your family that engages in
sex work, and if they don't, they probably will. Looking
(45:52):
at the projections of the economy right now, right, so
go ahead and do something.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
A lot of people are only fans the pandemic hit
only fans. Shut up.
Speaker 5 (46:04):
It shows in we need to go back.
Speaker 1 (46:07):
To bank on that only fans. I've seen them numbers.
I said, Man, let me go and get me some big,
big pills.
Speaker 5 (46:16):
You don't even have to do that.
Speaker 6 (46:17):
Everybody, and there's somebody for everybody.
Speaker 5 (46:23):
There are coins.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
I heard Trevor. I heard Trevor Noa was leaving a
daily shot said, man, let me see it. This only fans, no.
Speaker 6 (46:31):
Really, So you know, it's it has been so important
for us to normalize sex work, normalize porn right that
you watch it and you should feel good about watching it.
It's a former entertainment, just like everything else. When you
you know, you should be able to watch it with
the sound on, you should be able to watch it
without being offended. You should be able to find a
reflection of yourself and so really helping the consumer, like
(46:55):
take some charge of what they're consuming. You don't have
to just eat it because it's in front of you.
There is a menu that's out there, and we help
them learn how to shop for it. So you know,
Royal fetishxxx dot com, go check it Royal fetishxx dot com.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Who is responsible for making effective change? You know, we've
talked about the production companies, we talked about the way
a website will take a video that ain't even what
the slug title says, it is just because they know
to get someone to click on it and stay within
the site, so they'll augment the title of something that
(47:32):
a production company made. Or is it the consumer? What
responsibilities do the consumer?
Speaker 4 (47:37):
Like?
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Who is who could help? Who was the next person
to join you? Like when Batman went and got Commissioner
Gordon to help him clean up Gotham? Who is the
next person? Is it the consumer? Is it the production company?
Is it the websites and the distributors? Like I'll start,
I'll start with you King.
Speaker 4 (47:55):
I think it's everybody, to be honest, but I think
it's very important the work that we do to inform
the consumer of how to purchase non racist and ethically
made porn. So, you know, if somebody doesn't know that
they can go to Royal Fetish or doesn't know the
other sites that they can go to where they can
find content that is not only you know, pro everybody
(48:20):
in non racist, but also where they can go where
they know that the performers are involved in acts that
they enjoy that they're not there on some you know,
desperation then they'll make the right decision. It's like that
scene with Elijah Muhammad telling Malcolm X, if you choose
between the dirty water and the clean water, people gonna
(48:42):
choose the clean water and people and I might not
want to think of porn as clean and dirty water,
but there is some porn with clean water out there
that you can find that has all the things that
you're looking for, that involve all your fantasies and show
you different routes of pleasure. But you can do it
in an ethical way.
Speaker 6 (48:59):
Yea, all parties involved, everybody that is benefiting from from porn.
So the production companies need to stop being lazy, like
fix the template. The scenes need to be more reflective
of the people that are in them and the people
that are watching them, the performers. I definitely feel like
we have a responsibility to have some advocacy, some self
advocacy and draw the picket line somewhere. You know, not
(49:20):
everybody could jump off set, but you could try to negotiate.
You can be upfront with what you're comfortable with before
having that little bit of racism sprinkled on you right
like you mentioned, So go in, go into those situations
already describing you know what your boundaries are. I think
the consumers also need to follow the performers directly. And
(49:44):
you know, I say, the easiest way for the consumers
to engage with work that they could feel good about
is if the performer is promoting it. Usually we're not
going to promote something that didn't make us feel good
on set, or that we're not proud of, or that
we didn't have uh consent in the labeling of it, right,
(50:04):
So you know, if you're going to watch something like,
get to know the performers, and this helps us also
humanize the industry itself. It's like, oh, I like what
King had to say. Okay, go find his work and
look at what he's promoting and purchase that or watch
those scenes, because more than likely we are going to
again promote the things that we feel good about. And
(50:25):
then finally, I do think it is the advertisers. They're
making money off of our backs, but they're not willing
to hear our demands. So it is really important that
advertiserstop pouring money into sites that arenowledged won't acknowledge that
this stuff is problematic and that it needs to be removed.
So yeah, and if you see stuff like the same
way you can. I think for consumers, I don't want
(50:45):
to put so much responsibility when people are anxious to
have an orgasm that they have to stop and write
a letter before they can engage in the work, right.
But one of the things that you can do, the
way that we touch all forms of social media and
content is like don't like it, like report it right,
or just put a thumbs down and keep it moving
(51:07):
if you have to. So it's a small way, but
it lets people know that are putting the shit out
that it's like, oh, this didn't do so well, something
about it. Maybe I should take the you know, racial
slur out of it.
Speaker 1 (51:19):
You know what we need, Stacy, we need we need
like a ethical, ethical poorn logo. You know how they
got that recycled logo.
Speaker 3 (51:29):
Like the organic like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
You didn't murder nobody to make this product and then yeah,
I see. Well, thank you all so much. That's all
the time we have for today. Thank you to our
guest Stacy King Jasmine. Thank you all for going beyond
the scenes with me.
Speaker 4 (51:48):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Open up these tabs that I had minimized real quick
play the theme music. Oh. Listen to the Daily Show
beyond the scenes on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, or
wherever you get your podcasts.
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