Ep. 173 In this episode of Black Tech Green Money, Ceci Kurzman talks with AfroTech's Will Lucas about her impressive background as a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member. With a history as a former music executive and talent manager, Ceci has guided the careers and business strategies of some of the biggest artists in the world and has held board positions with prominent companies like Revlon, Cirque du Soleil, Warner Music Group, and United Talent Agency.
Ceci shares her insights on the current media landscape, highlighting the challenges and opportunities that come with innovation in the media sector. They discuss the pitfalls of the venture model, the impact of overvaluation, and the importance of sustainable business practices. Ceci also explores the future of media, emphasizing the role of individual content creators and the democratization of social media platforms.
As the leader of Nexus Management Group, Ceci explains why she focuses on growth stage companies and how she leverages her brand-building expertise to add value to these businesses. She delves into her transition from the music industry to private investment, her operational involvement with portfolio companies, and her dedication to expanding diversity on corporate boards.
This episode offers valuable lessons for anyone interested in media innovation, investment strategies, and the importance of representation in boardrooms.
Follow Will Lucas on Instagram: @willlucas
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green money.
Cccurrisman is a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member.
As a former music executive and talent manager, she's guided
the careers, business strategies, and brand development of many of
the biggest artists on the planet. As a board member,
she either currently or has out on the boards of
(00:22):
directors for Revline, Circus, Dates, so Let, Warner Music Group,
Line Vine Grew, United Talent Agency, and more. Currently, she
leads Nexus Management Grew, a private investment company dedicated to innovative,
growth stage businesses in the consumer media and technology sectors.
Traditional media is still being disrupted daily by innovation that
(00:43):
provides a platform to social media commentators and creators, but
many new media companies have a hard time figuring.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It out also, and there are many stories of late were.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well funded platforms either no longer exists or are today
not getting after it, not meeting it for potential. It
was all good, just so as someone who's an investor
in growing media platforms, I sec to paint a picture
of what the landscape currently looks like.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, well, you know, I think some of the really
the downfall of some of the larger new digital media businesses.
I think really speaks to the venture model, which is
quite broken, and I think we're starting to see where
(01:28):
the cracks and the pavement are by watching not just
these media businesses, but some of the other tech businesses
and other businesses that I think are now suffering because
of the valuations and the enterprise values that were so
frovy in the last ten years and didn't really reflect
(01:50):
the strength and the solid nature.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Of the business.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And by that, I mean, you know, now everybody's talking
about it, but we knew, We knew it was happening
when it was happening, right, We knew valuations were not
you know, we had companies that were based on valuations
with no profitability. We had companies that continue to raise
large sums of capital based on paper valuations, not based
(02:16):
on you know, an actual business model and the health
and structure of business. So it's not I would say,
a surprise that we're seeing a lot of these media
companies go away. They're sort of suffering from their own
perceived success because they did raise a lot of money,
and they raised a lot of money against the expectations
(02:39):
of some really really massive valuations and It's not to
say that these aren't great companies with great prospects, but
unfortunately they were burdened by their own success and expectations
that were set for them and buy them.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Really, So what's happening from the venture side that allows
that to happen. Is it just so much money in
the system that they've got to deploy it somewhere or
is it very charismatic founders? What's happening?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things, right, Media
and tech are both sort of suffering in the same
you know, in the same downturn, and the irony isn't
it isn't really about the businesses. The businesses in many
cases are still thriving, right, They're still growing, perhaps not
at the pace that they did out of the gate,
(03:31):
or at the pace that was expected based.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
On their valuation.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So you know, they are good businesses, good teams, good
underlying business model, but the expectations are out here, right,
and I think what you're seeing now is really a
correction to where it should be. But of course anybody
who invested at the high valuation sees this as you know,
(03:58):
the end of days, because the valuations are now coming
down to a place where probably they should have been. Anyway,
these companies probably shouldn't have raised so much money. Money
will cover up a lot of mistakes, and sometimes you
actually need to see and live your mistakes and own
your mistakes and set backs to be able to continue
(04:20):
to build a business in a healthy way.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So from an investment perspective, what does innovation.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Look like these days in media?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Because I brought up there's so many people doing this independently,
and you also have a lot of social media commentators
on these things. So what does innovation look.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Mean in any No matter how you slice it, media
is expensive. To build a media business from scratch is expensive.
I think you had a lot of companies really diversifying
too quickly across too many formats to be able to
chase scale and valuation. If you look at actually some
(04:59):
of the success raise in media, look at some of
the incumbents who have actually pivoted in an interesting way.
New York Times just launched their app. New York Times
is doing very well. This is this is a you know,
age old the old gray ladies they call her age
old media business that has gone from being an incumbent
(05:22):
and a legacy business and really pivoted in a very
very strategic way into the modern you know, into the
modern era. But this is a company that's been built
over one hundred years, step by step by step. It
had foundation, it had real brand awareness, it had real following,
(05:42):
it had real authority in its space. So they had
all those foundational elements that were built over the years
to enable them to then innovate. A lot of the
newer companies really just you know, built really quickly, and
audiences were fickle, and it was really hard to sustain
(06:03):
and maintain a solid, you know, solid foundation as as
they needed to scale their audience. And then once the
you know, once the kind of curtain gets pulled back
a little bit, they're in real trouble very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And so I think about being a social media being
on social media, very active on social media. It's very
difficult for people like media and across I guess the
many different demographics to leave social media to go to
another link, another location on the Internet. And so I
wonder what your thoughts are on Let's say I go,
I'm going to the New York Times, and then I
(06:39):
got a paywall, and you know, maybe I'm not a subscriber,
so and but you're talking about their growing So how
are these things happening when a number one social media
platforms don't want you to leave, so they made suppress
those links out And then when you get to the
place now I can only read the first line of
a story.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, it's it's it's an age old market strategy. Right.
They have to have content that's compelling enough that you're
going to wanna that you're going to want to get
behind the paywall. I think they have subscribers because their
brand is mean something, right, It's like, how many streaming
services are you going to sign up for? Most people
(07:18):
have Netflix, maybe one or two others, But how do
you become somebody needs to come over there and do
and do like you know an.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Audit seriously seriously right?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But Netflix became what I call utility, right, something that
you just you pay like you play pay the electric bill.
It's not something you turn off whether you're reading, whether
you're watching a show that's that's original to Netflix or
exclusive to Netflix or not. That is what every media
outlet aspires to, where the content is such that it
(07:58):
becomes your utility, comes something that you're not going to
live without. And I actually think a lot of social
media personalities have been able to build their own followings
and being able to monetize their own followings to many
at the expense of a lot of these you know,
(08:19):
larger digital media outlets. The idea is their monetization strategy
is different. They're able to use other platforms and other
platforms advertisers to help monetize and pay some of these
social media pundits and personalities.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
That's what I love about the business.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I mean, the New York Times is a great example
of an existing media company, big media company that continues
to innovate and nurture what already existed in terms of
a following and hopefully build a few you know, new followers,
but they had it. What I love and what I
think the future of media is is these individuals who
(09:00):
who created who have a strong points of view, who
hopefully in some cases we've got more impartial views, who
are able to create content that is you know, sticky
and engaging and build their own followings because there's been
this great democratization of these social media platforms right that
(09:21):
you don't have to be a big, huge company with
a billion dollar valuation to build an audience, and that's
I think the greatest threat to media is the individuals
like yourselves and others who have something to say and
have a point of view and are able to create
content wherever they are and can build a following behind
them and monetize that follow That's that's what I think
(09:44):
the future of media is the individuals building brands around themselves.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And so I've read that you know you're focused at
nexus with innovative growth stage companies, and you know you
can debunk that if that's not true. But I wonder
what the reason behind sticking to growth stage companies is
because a lot of people think about what I'm maybec stage.
I've got a really great idea, but why growth stage?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
As an investor, it's one hundred percent to do with
what my risk tolerance is and also to do with
where I add value to a business. And you know,
the early stage, very early stage companies. I almost describe
most of the success to the team. Is it a
(10:31):
team that has done this before? Is it a team
that can lead, can drive value, has had successes but
has also had failures.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
To me, the idea is secondary.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
To who's going to execute the idea and even secondary
to how well capitalized it is. And if I look
at like, the reason I got into investing is because
I spent my life in the music industry and I
managed artists, and my goal for the artists was, having
been in the business a while, is how do you
give them a second act? Right, Like, how do you
(11:04):
take that moment when they're at their absolute top of
their career and their greatest influence and use it to
leverage that into opportunities that give them the access to
generational wealth, that give them access to cap tables that
most people don't have access to. And so we started
investing on behalf of the artists into businesses like early
(11:27):
in Spotify right, businesses that didn't need money, weren't accepting
other checks, but would allow us to come in because
they thought it was interesting that the value proposition of
having artists and people who were connected with you know,
consumers and what the consumer base wanted. So that's how
(11:48):
I got into investing, really is to engage my artists
and give them opportunities to you know, opportunities that only
old wealthy people have had for years and years in
year and give them a seat at the table and
that's what got me into investing, and the reason that
I invest.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
You know, I have a risk profile.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I don't love the idea of putting in twenty investments
thinking one of them is going to work and hoping
and praying.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't have that. I can't sit through that risk, right,
that would stress me out. I like companies that have
product market fit, have teams, and where they are is
they're in a position where they're ready to put jet
fuel on their business. And that's also because that's where
I can add the value. Right as a brand builder,
as a marketer, as a business person, my superpowers are around, Okay,
(12:39):
you've got something really great. You've got the best business
or brand that not enough people have heard of. Like
what I can do to help your business is to
take it and put it on blessed. And that's why
you know, for me, i'd rather put money into a
business that's going that has you know, may not give
me one hundred times return and maybe one or two times,
(13:01):
but there's very little risk that it's going to disappear tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Right, And that's why I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Do early stage And it's purely a preference, purely risk
tolerance perspective and also where I feel I can add
the most, So.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I mean check the resume. Cc was Vice President of
Worldwide Marketing at Epic Records Sony Music, where she led
the marketing team and oversaw the USN international strategy for
priority artists like Pearl jam Shade, Celine Dion, and Michael Jackson.
She began her career in the record business at Aris
the Records, working for the legendary Clive Davis as Director
(13:48):
of Artists Development in special Projects. From there, decided to
take her talent to private investment. What was the opportunity
she saw CEC speaks.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
On It really was, I'd been working in the music
industry for twenty years. The opportunity to invest on behalf
of my artists gave me this visibility across a lot
of businesses, different industries, different management teams, different investor groups,
and it really allowed me to sort of diversify my exposure,
(14:23):
my professional journey, and my skill set. So I after
doing quite a few of these investments, it seemed like
a good opportunity to sort of allow myself to sort
of take a few different paths on my professional journey
and really do some light learning in all these other
(14:43):
industries and that's what got me into investing, And ultimately
why I sit on a lot of different boards is
because I love to have visibility into a lot of
different industries. But one thing that all of these industries
have in common is they're central to and brand building.
And whether it be finance, whether it be music and entertainment,
(15:07):
or whether it be consumer, they're really all like how
do you storytell? How do you how do you message
what you're about? How do you message your values? And
how do you disseminate that that message in a wide
you know, to a wide group of people.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And you mentioned this before. I'm gonna come back to
the board talking a little bit. But you mentioned when
the types of investments you involve yourself, is you get
to bring those experiences as you've had historically. And what
types of activities are you involved in operationally or otherwise
with the companies that you make.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Well, it really varies.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Well, you know, I'm involved in big companies like Revlon
and Warner Music and Man Group, which is a big
publicly traded hedge fund, and I'm involved in earlier growth
stage companies that I'm invested in, and they all require
(16:07):
different levels of engagement. I would say, you know, management,
finding the right management team and done quite a few
CEO searches and building the CEO CEOs team and management team.
Obviously in areas like music and entertainment where I have
a very specific and longstanding background, I get involved in
(16:33):
many areas beyond the sort of more high level strategic
board work, and it could really just be there to
support the management team wherever I can troubleshoot and help
make a difference. In the younger companies, probably much more
operationally involved in terms of you know, really helping guide
(16:57):
the management team, helping them make decisons, in some cases,
helping them raise capital, hire teams, build a business model,
pivot the business model, and help create opportunities and use
my network to help them create opportunities for their business
(17:20):
and themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And so we had Ursula Burns at a natro tech
executive let someone sometime last year and she said something
that I thought was remarkable, and I wasn't interviewing her,
so I didn't get a chance to dig into this
sentiment she had shared, and she had she we were
talking about boards, and she didn't understand the fascination with.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Board service to this body of people that we.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Were in the room, And so I want to position
what I would follow up with somebody who's had your experience.
I mean, you have Revlin, you know Uta Circuitay Sola
and lon Von and more, and you've had all these
wonderful experiences and what are some good reasons to desire
to sit on a board.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'm glad you asked the question because I do do
a lot of do do a lot of talks about
board service, and you know, my side hustle is putting
women on boards. It's just something I challenge myself to
put ten women, especially women of color, on boards every
(18:24):
year because it's sort of opportunity begets, begets opportunity and
helping share that network. But I agree with her in
some quick cases. The first question I always ask a
room like that is make sure you've answered the question
why do you want to be on a board, And
very few people have the answer. The answer for many
(18:47):
people is immediately it's it's another sort of notch notch
in my resume. It's sort of the next thing. Once
I've done this, this and this, that's the next, you know,
the next step.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
On the ladder.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
It looks good. It's you helped my personal brand. I
think that could be part of the reason. But I
think there have to be a lot more foundational reasons
to join a board, and there are some, right, I
noted one for me. I wanted to expand beyond my
(19:25):
industry of choice, right, entertainment.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I loved it. I done it a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
It's very hard once you reach a certain level to
be able to pivot into other industries, right, to be
able to have that visibility at a strategic level, not
at an entry level, at a strategic level, and board
work is one of the ways you can do that.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It's you have transferable skills that you've learned building and
running businesses in your core field that you can then
lend to these other businesses. But also you're learning these
other businesses. I didn't know consumer products, didn't know about
supply chain, I didn't know about the capital markets. I
was able to bring my expertise into these businesses. But
(20:07):
more importantly, I've gotten so much. I am now, you know,
if not fluent, certainly conversant in all these other industries.
And at a certain point in your career when you
may say listen. I don't want to be just CCE
the entertainment person or the music person. I want to
both intellectually and professionally expand my skill set.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I think that's a really good reason.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I think for an operator of a business being able
to work. If you're a CEO of a business, being
able to work alongside and watch another CEO of a
business work, and to be able to partner with them
and help them but also learn from them. I think
that's a really good reason to do. To be on
a board. I think being able to expand your network
(20:53):
beyond your industry and be on a board with board
members that are from all sorts of different industries and
would be a great network for you another great reason
to do a board. I think where people get it
wrong sometimes is they're gonna make a lot of money.
There are some opportunities to do that, but it's not.
(21:14):
Board work is not you know you're stepping into you
know you're stepping in it. That's not what it is.
I think a mistake is to do it just purely
because you think it's it's a profile choice, and I.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Think it's important to know.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
For example, if you're an operator in a business, it's
really hard to do board work right. You might be
able to do one, but when you're on a board
the time, you don't have to be there all the time.
They are very specific times you need to show up
and be involved. But you've got to be there. So
if you're working a day job, you can't say I
(21:51):
can't be at that board meeting. You can't say I
can't you know, be on that call. You've got to
be able to create the time for that board service.
And the other issue I find with some people who
have a day job, especially if they're you know, they're
a founder or running a business, is if I'm an
investor or, I'm a board member on your company, I
(22:16):
want to know that you're one hundred and fifty percent
devoted to your day job. I don't want you using
your time and your you know, mental mass to be
supporting another company that doesn't help grow the business that
I'm involved in.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
So it does become tricky, right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
A good you know, a good leader can see the
value of being on another board to help them developmentally
as a leader. But the idea they have to be
able to maintain their day job at one hundred and
fifty percent, and if that ever slips, you have the
duty to sure that you're fully focused on your day job.
(23:01):
The other thing I think people don't really understand is
there's real liability and being on a board actual liability.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
So boards get sued all the time.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You have insurance, but you need to be prepared for
the fact that you have liability because you're a fiduciary
of that company. And I think you've seen it. You know,
there are people getting sued at Disney right now. There
are people who were sued the suing the shareholders that
sued Twitter, Twitter's board. You know, there there's been a lot,
(23:32):
there are a lot of lawsuits. If a shareholder thinks
that they did not that the board didn't act in
the full support of the shareholders, they're going to sue.
So just be prepared that there is liability that comes
with it, not you know, if the grass isn't always green.
Companies have problems and then you really on the hot
(23:54):
seat and you've got to be you know, roll up
your sleeves and get involved in in solving.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Those And so I'm gonna ask this question and it's
gonna sound.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Selfish, but there's us there's very core. There's very.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Credentialed people who listen to this podcast, so there will
be value across the board. So I have the privilege
of sitting on a few boards, university boards, Ohio Casino
Control Commission, we regulate all the casinos in Ohio, et cetera.
Some international corporate boards I've sat on, and I want
My question is this, there are for people who have
(24:28):
sat on boards, there's a desire to get on bigger boards,
and you don't want to just always trip over at
these opportunities. So how can you be specific and intentional
about creating opportunities for yourself? Because I'm not a black woman,
so you know, maybe I don't qualify for your mentorship
in that way, but you know, I want but seeh
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
See but I wonder, like, how can people be intentional about,
you know, these opportunities seeking them out.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think I think you have have to be intentional
about the opportunities. What I tell people, because you know,
when as soon as your sort of reach a certain profile,
inevitably opportunities are going to come your way.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And I would say this in the same way that
I would.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Speak to my artists about building their own kind of
career strategies. You're going to get the incoming phone calls.
You're going to want to say no more than you
say yes.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
And so when you say be.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Intentional, think about the outgoing phone call. Think about why
you know the question we just answered, why do you
want to be on a board? Is it to expand
your professional skill set? Is it to pivot your career?
Is it to expand your network? Then you ask the question,
Then you answer the question with what companies really interest me?
(25:56):
What value could I add to a company? And then
you start to formulate an opinion around the types of
boards that would be interesting to you, whether they're big, small, private, public,
you know, that's sort of secondary. What are the companies
that are interesting to you? Because you've asked those questions,
(26:18):
and I left off one point that I think is
one of the mission critical questions for yourself. Who else
is on the board? Right, both in terms of who
are you? Who do you want to learn from, Who
do you want to be a part of your network?
Who do you admire? Who do you want to spend
a lot of time with? Because you do spend a
(26:41):
lot of time with your fellow board members critical questions
to ask if you ask me. One of the most
pivotal boards I was on was actually a nonprofit board.
It was one of my first boards, and I arrived
at this board and there were seven sitting public company
(27:02):
CEOs also on the board. When I say it was
the highest functioning board I have ever seen, the most
high functioning people, entirely productive. Every meeting ran so well
and everybody left that we left every meeting with things
having been done, decisions having been made, And to me,
(27:24):
that was actually one of the greatest learning experience around
good governance, high functioning uh you know, board meetings and
best practices.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
And what's you know.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
The byproduct of that is having spent all that quality
time peer to peer and elbow to elbow with.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
These seven sitting CEOs.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Not only did I learn from them, but they became
part of my very very close network of advisors, of
mentors and yes of pipeline to future future board work
and career operati communities. There you cannot understate the importance
(28:07):
of the network. And I think sort of the board
pipeline gets a bit of a bad rap because it
has been historically very insulur but there's also reason for that. Really,
the decision around who gets on boards comes down to
what I call the three c's right capability. Obviously, the
(28:30):
person has to have the capabilities and the skill sets
to be on that board. Chemistry right really important. Are
you going to have chemistry with the other board members?
Are are you a growth mindset person? Are you a
fixed mindset person? Do you build consensus? Are you a
(28:51):
table pounder? Are you going to get in that room
and help it be really productive? And the last one
is character, And this one is the most important one
because I think it's the reason that boards have been
very exclusive. Unlike hiring somebody for a regular job, when
(29:11):
you put them in the boardroom, they have the enormous
power over and around the business. With that, you need
an enormous amount of trust of the person you're inviting
onto the board. You need to trust in their values,
in their ethics, in their you know, their ability to
(29:34):
not only add value, but to be constructive. And that's
not built overnight, right, You can't read that in somebody's
LinkedIn and understand you know what that character is and
you know haven't built that trust.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So that trust means that a lot of people call
people they know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
They call people they know, they call people they've worked with,
They've called people that that have great recommendations because people.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
They trust have worked with them.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And historically that means it's been a very small pool
of people to pull from. And one of the things
that I certainly try to do is not only put
people on boards, but to ensure that the people making
the choices and decisions have exposure in their own network
(30:24):
to all of these amazing people that may not have
been on their radar before. Because it's not a supply issue.
I think it's a connectivity issue. Giving exposure to the
enormous supply of highly capable, talented people who are now
a part of their network, and they can build relationships
and build trust, which may lead to board opportunities, may
(30:47):
lead to other career opportunities, may lead to mentorship opportunities.
But I think really building that network and the relationships
and the trust is important a part of developing the
you know, the next generation of board members and hopefully
much more diverse and representative generation of board members as
(31:10):
just you know, pipelining resumes and using search forbs.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
So I was talking to Tristan Walker who's a friend.
It's hits on shake Check's board and foot Locker, and
we were talking about how you know, not only is
diversity on boards the right thing to do, but there's
also an economic reason there's diversity impacts the bottom line.
And I want to ask a question on this is
because at that same Afrotech executive we had with Ursula.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Burns and Merlin and Saint.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Till who's also on a lot of corporate boards, and
there was a conversation around should how how much weight
should we put into being on a board because you
may be black too the diversity they need that also,
And I wonder what your thoughts are on how we
should pursue board oppertunities.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Because we might also be black.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That doesn't mean that doesn't mean we're not skilled and
doesn't mean we have have an asset to provide.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
But we're also black. How much weight should we put
into that?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Listen, I mean, if two people are equally as qualified
for a board role, bring representation onto your board, right.
I think you know, Tristan's point is a really good one,
and it's an economic imperative, it's not a diversity imperative.
(32:34):
You know, boards should reflect their entire stakeholder group all
the way through. Right, that is their consumer, that is
their employees, that is their shareholders, that is their management teams.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
That is their board.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
So all the way through organizations, the board should reflect
every aspect of that stakeholder group. And that just becomes
an economic, you know, imperative because that means you're going
to be able to better serve your end consumer, your
end business right having representation in the room. It's one
(33:09):
thing that actually has driven me crazy about the beauty industry,
which is still so segregated. Right, Multicultural teams live over here,
general market lives over here. And you know, if you
want to actually get the best, you know for your company,
have representation throughout. Bring those multicultural folks in, have them
(33:30):
be at the point of origin of product, innovation, of marketing,
of c suite and yes of board, and you'll get
the benefit of being able to wrap your arms around
all cultures and the entire audience. And you also bring
some very important and critical perspectives into the room of
(33:51):
what they call the general market. So, but you know,
to answer your question directly, I think it's as important
that when we get on these boards that we are
high performing. We need to get on those boards and
not be in the back quiet, you know, cashing our ticket.
We need to come in these boards and have a
(34:12):
very strong voice and be able to make a real
impact on the boards. So yes, I think we need
more diversity, more people of color on boards. But it's
important when they get out to get on those boards
that they're there for the right reasons and that they're
there and can make an impact.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Otherwise we'll start going in the other direction.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think I read this from Wall Street Women's Forum,
and this was written about you. It says, utilizing her
artist development expertise to develop businesses and entrepreneurs, CC has
grown a portfolio of companies taking on varying degrees of
operational involvement. And I've referenced that because you said something
earlier regarding you know, changing from talent management to investment.
(34:56):
And so many of us, particularly career minded people, think
about they may be unhappy in what they're doing today,
they may want to do something else, and so many
of us think that we need to stop what we're
doing to do something else. You saw what you were
doing as Elite as a launch pad to do what
you're doing. Now, how should we be thinking about reimagining
(35:18):
our activities and reimagining our skill sets to be able
to deploy them to different targets instead of leaving what
we're doing altogether to start something new.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I think, you know, I think about that word reimagining
a little bit, and I have word.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
That I hear a lot, which is pivoting.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I think taking stock of the skill sets that you've
already developed.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I think the idea of doing something new is really semantics. Right.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
You're going to bring your experience from whatever you've been
doing into the next thing you do. There are very
few experiences sets that have no transferable skills. Right.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
So when I say I went from.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Talent management building living brands into investing, because immediately you
see the same thread where entrepreneurs are like artists. Right,
you're building their brands, you're telling their stories, You're ensuring
that they what they want to put forward is also
what the consumer understands, creating that connective tissue that is consistent.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Whether you're dealing with music artists or you're dealing with
entrepreneurs and new businesses.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Launching a new business in so many ways is super
similar to developing a new artist's career.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
And as soon as I kind of.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Understood that connective tissue, because there are so many familiar moments,
it gives you a whole other level of confidence.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Right That's like, Oh, I'm not switch careers. I am
taking everything.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I've built and developed and learned and internalized, and I'm
applying it to a new uh industry, or I'm applying
it to a new position or a new career strategy.
But I would never say you're you know, You're never
starting from scratch, is what my point is, so really
being able to take stock of the amazing experience that
(37:25):
you've already built and think about how it translates into
some of these other areas.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afrotech
in the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media,
and it's produced by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas.
The additional production support by Sarah Ragan and Rose McLucas.
Special thank you to Mike and Davis. When That's surround
Knowing my emoldru Learn more about my casts and other
tech disrupteds to innovators at afrotech dot com enjoy your
(38:06):
black tech, green money. Share us to somebody, Go get
your money.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
He's some love.
I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green money.
Cccurrisman is a private investor, entrepreneur, and independent board member.
As a former music executive and talent manager, she's guided
the careers, business strategies, and brand development of many of
the biggest artists on the planet. As a board member,
she either currently or has out on the boards of
(00:22):
directors for Revline, Circus, Dates, so Let, Warner Music Group,
Line Vine Grew, United Talent Agency, and more. Currently, she
leads Nexus Management Grew, a private investment company dedicated to innovative,
growth stage businesses in the consumer media and technology sectors.
Traditional media is still being disrupted daily by innovation that
(00:43):
provides a platform to social media commentators and creators, but
many new media companies have a hard time figuring.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It out also, and there are many stories of late were.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Well funded platforms either no longer exists or are today
not getting after it, not meeting it for potential. It
was all good, just so as someone who's an investor
in growing media platforms, I sec to paint a picture
of what the landscape currently looks like.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Well, well, you know, I think some of the really
the downfall of some of the larger new digital media businesses.
I think really speaks to the venture model, which is
quite broken, and I think we're starting to see where
(01:28):
the cracks and the pavement are by watching not just
these media businesses, but some of the other tech businesses
and other businesses that I think are now suffering because
of the valuations and the enterprise values that were so
frovy in the last ten years and didn't really reflect
(01:50):
the strength and the solid nature.
Speaker 4 (01:53):
Of the business.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
And by that, I mean, you know, now everybody's talking
about it, but we knew, We knew it was happening
when it was happening, right, We knew valuations were not
you know, we had companies that were based on valuations
with no profitability. We had companies that continue to raise
large sums of capital based on paper valuations, not based
(02:16):
on you know, an actual business model and the health
and structure of business. So it's not I would say,
a surprise that we're seeing a lot of these media
companies go away. They're sort of suffering from their own
perceived success because they did raise a lot of money,
and they raised a lot of money against the expectations
(02:39):
of some really really massive valuations and It's not to
say that these aren't great companies with great prospects, but
unfortunately they were burdened by their own success and expectations
that were set for them and buy them.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Really, So what's happening from the venture side that allows
that to happen. Is it just so much money in
the system that they've got to deploy it somewhere or
is it very charismatic founders? What's happening?
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of things, right, Media
and tech are both sort of suffering in the same
you know, in the same downturn, and the irony isn't
it isn't really about the businesses. The businesses in many
cases are still thriving, right, They're still growing, perhaps not
at the pace that they did out of the gate,
(03:31):
or at the pace that was expected based.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
On their valuation.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
So you know, they are good businesses, good teams, good
underlying business model, but the expectations are out here, right,
and I think what you're seeing now is really a
correction to where it should be. But of course anybody
who invested at the high valuation sees this as you know,
(03:58):
the end of days, because the valuations are now coming
down to a place where probably they should have been. Anyway,
these companies probably shouldn't have raised so much money. Money
will cover up a lot of mistakes, and sometimes you
actually need to see and live your mistakes and own
your mistakes and set backs to be able to continue
(04:20):
to build a business in a healthy way.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So from an investment perspective, what does innovation.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Look like these days in media?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Because I brought up there's so many people doing this independently,
and you also have a lot of social media commentators
on these things. So what does innovation look.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Mean in any No matter how you slice it, media
is expensive. To build a media business from scratch is expensive.
I think you had a lot of companies really diversifying
too quickly across too many formats to be able to
chase scale and valuation. If you look at actually some
(04:59):
of the success raise in media, look at some of
the incumbents who have actually pivoted in an interesting way.
New York Times just launched their app. New York Times
is doing very well. This is this is a you know,
age old the old gray ladies they call her age
old media business that has gone from being an incumbent
(05:22):
and a legacy business and really pivoted in a very
very strategic way into the modern you know, into the
modern era. But this is a company that's been built
over one hundred years, step by step by step. It
had foundation, it had real brand awareness, it had real following,
(05:42):
it had real authority in its space. So they had
all those foundational elements that were built over the years
to enable them to then innovate. A lot of the
newer companies really just you know, built really quickly, and
audiences were fickle, and it was really hard to sustain
(06:03):
and maintain a solid, you know, solid foundation as as
they needed to scale their audience. And then once the
you know, once the kind of curtain gets pulled back
a little bit, they're in real trouble very very quickly.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
And so I think about being a social media being
on social media, very active on social media. It's very
difficult for people like media and across I guess the
many different demographics to leave social media to go to
another link, another location on the Internet. And so I
wonder what your thoughts are on Let's say I go,
I'm going to the New York Times, and then I
(06:39):
got a paywall, and you know, maybe I'm not a subscriber,
so and but you're talking about their growing So how
are these things happening when a number one social media
platforms don't want you to leave, so they made suppress
those links out And then when you get to the
place now I can only read the first line of
a story.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Well, it's it's it's an age old market strategy. Right.
They have to have content that's compelling enough that you're
going to wanna that you're going to want to get
behind the paywall. I think they have subscribers because their
brand is mean something, right, It's like, how many streaming
services are you going to sign up for? Most people
(07:18):
have Netflix, maybe one or two others, But how do
you become somebody needs to come over there and do
and do like you know an.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Audit seriously seriously right?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
But Netflix became what I call utility, right, something that
you just you pay like you play pay the electric bill.
It's not something you turn off whether you're reading, whether
you're watching a show that's that's original to Netflix or
exclusive to Netflix or not. That is what every media
outlet aspires to, where the content is such that it
(07:58):
becomes your utility, comes something that you're not going to
live without. And I actually think a lot of social
media personalities have been able to build their own followings
and being able to monetize their own followings to many
at the expense of a lot of these you know,
(08:19):
larger digital media outlets. The idea is their monetization strategy
is different. They're able to use other platforms and other
platforms advertisers to help monetize and pay some of these
social media pundits and personalities.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
That's what I love about the business.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
I mean, the New York Times is a great example
of an existing media company, big media company that continues
to innovate and nurture what already existed in terms of
a following and hopefully build a few you know, new followers,
but they had it. What I love and what I
think the future of media is is these individuals who
(09:00):
who created who have a strong points of view, who
hopefully in some cases we've got more impartial views, who
are able to create content that is you know, sticky
and engaging and build their own followings because there's been
this great democratization of these social media platforms right that
(09:21):
you don't have to be a big, huge company with
a billion dollar valuation to build an audience, and that's
I think the greatest threat to media is the individuals
like yourselves and others who have something to say and
have a point of view and are able to create
content wherever they are and can build a following behind
them and monetize that follow That's that's what I think
(09:44):
the future of media is the individuals building brands around themselves.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
And so I've read that you know you're focused at
nexus with innovative growth stage companies, and you know you
can debunk that if that's not true. But I wonder
what the reason behind sticking to growth stage companies is
because a lot of people think about what I'm maybec stage.
I've got a really great idea, but why growth stage?
Speaker 3 (10:08):
As an investor, it's one hundred percent to do with
what my risk tolerance is and also to do with
where I add value to a business. And you know,
the early stage, very early stage companies. I almost describe
most of the success to the team. Is it a
(10:31):
team that has done this before? Is it a team
that can lead, can drive value, has had successes but
has also had failures.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
To me, the idea is secondary.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
To who's going to execute the idea and even secondary
to how well capitalized it is. And if I look
at like, the reason I got into investing is because
I spent my life in the music industry and I
managed artists, and my goal for the artists was, having
been in the business a while, is how do you
give them a second act? Right, Like, how do you
(11:04):
take that moment when they're at their absolute top of
their career and their greatest influence and use it to
leverage that into opportunities that give them the access to
generational wealth, that give them access to cap tables that
most people don't have access to. And so we started
investing on behalf of the artists into businesses like early
(11:27):
in Spotify right, businesses that didn't need money, weren't accepting
other checks, but would allow us to come in because
they thought it was interesting that the value proposition of
having artists and people who were connected with you know,
consumers and what the consumer base wanted. So that's how
(11:48):
I got into investing, really is to engage my artists
and give them opportunities to you know, opportunities that only
old wealthy people have had for years and years in
year and give them a seat at the table and
that's what got me into investing, and the reason that
I invest.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
You know, I have a risk profile.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
I don't love the idea of putting in twenty investments
thinking one of them is going to work and hoping
and praying.
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Right.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
I don't have that. I can't sit through that risk, right,
that would stress me out. I like companies that have
product market fit, have teams, and where they are is
they're in a position where they're ready to put jet
fuel on their business. And that's also because that's where
I can add the value. Right as a brand builder,
as a marketer, as a business person, my superpowers are around, Okay,
(12:39):
you've got something really great. You've got the best business
or brand that not enough people have heard of. Like
what I can do to help your business is to
take it and put it on blessed. And that's why
you know, for me, i'd rather put money into a
business that's going that has you know, may not give
me one hundred times return and maybe one or two times,
(13:01):
but there's very little risk that it's going to disappear tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
Right, And that's why I don't.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
Do early stage And it's purely a preference, purely risk
tolerance perspective and also where I feel I can add
the most, So.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
I mean check the resume. Cc was Vice President of
Worldwide Marketing at Epic Records Sony Music, where she led
the marketing team and oversaw the USN international strategy for
priority artists like Pearl jam Shade, Celine Dion, and Michael Jackson.
She began her career in the record business at Aris
the Records, working for the legendary Clive Davis as Director
(13:48):
of Artists Development in special Projects. From there, decided to
take her talent to private investment. What was the opportunity
she saw CEC speaks.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
On It really was, I'd been working in the music
industry for twenty years. The opportunity to invest on behalf
of my artists gave me this visibility across a lot
of businesses, different industries, different management teams, different investor groups,
and it really allowed me to sort of diversify my exposure,
(14:23):
my professional journey, and my skill set. So I after
doing quite a few of these investments, it seemed like
a good opportunity to sort of allow myself to sort
of take a few different paths on my professional journey
and really do some light learning in all these other
(14:43):
industries and that's what got me into investing, And ultimately
why I sit on a lot of different boards is
because I love to have visibility into a lot of
different industries. But one thing that all of these industries
have in common is they're central to and brand building.
And whether it be finance, whether it be music and entertainment,
(15:07):
or whether it be consumer, they're really all like how
do you storytell? How do you how do you message
what you're about? How do you message your values? And
how do you disseminate that that message in a wide
you know, to a wide group of people.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
And you mentioned this before. I'm gonna come back to
the board talking a little bit. But you mentioned when
the types of investments you involve yourself, is you get
to bring those experiences as you've had historically. And what
types of activities are you involved in operationally or otherwise
with the companies that you make.
Speaker 4 (15:42):
Well, it really varies.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Well, you know, I'm involved in big companies like Revlon
and Warner Music and Man Group, which is a big
publicly traded hedge fund, and I'm involved in earlier growth
stage companies that I'm invested in, and they all require
(16:07):
different levels of engagement. I would say, you know, management,
finding the right management team and done quite a few
CEO searches and building the CEO CEOs team and management team.
Obviously in areas like music and entertainment where I have
a very specific and longstanding background, I get involved in
(16:33):
many areas beyond the sort of more high level strategic
board work, and it could really just be there to
support the management team wherever I can troubleshoot and help
make a difference. In the younger companies, probably much more
operationally involved in terms of you know, really helping guide
(16:57):
the management team, helping them make decisons, in some cases,
helping them raise capital, hire teams, build a business model,
pivot the business model, and help create opportunities and use
my network to help them create opportunities for their business
(17:20):
and themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
And so we had Ursula Burns at a natro tech
executive let someone sometime last year and she said something
that I thought was remarkable, and I wasn't interviewing her,
so I didn't get a chance to dig into this
sentiment she had shared, and she had she we were
talking about boards, and she didn't understand the fascination with.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Board service to this body of people that we.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Were in the room, And so I want to position
what I would follow up with somebody who's had your experience.
I mean, you have Revlin, you know Uta Circuitay Sola
and lon Von and more, and you've had all these
wonderful experiences and what are some good reasons to desire
to sit on a board.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
I'm glad you asked the question because I do do
a lot of do do a lot of talks about
board service, and you know, my side hustle is putting
women on boards. It's just something I challenge myself to
put ten women, especially women of color, on boards every
(18:24):
year because it's sort of opportunity begets, begets opportunity and
helping share that network. But I agree with her in
some quick cases. The first question I always ask a
room like that is make sure you've answered the question
why do you want to be on a board, And
very few people have the answer. The answer for many
(18:47):
people is immediately it's it's another sort of notch notch
in my resume. It's sort of the next thing. Once
I've done this, this and this, that's the next, you know,
the next step.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
On the ladder.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
It looks good. It's you helped my personal brand. I
think that could be part of the reason. But I
think there have to be a lot more foundational reasons
to join a board, and there are some, right, I
noted one for me. I wanted to expand beyond my
(19:25):
industry of choice, right, entertainment.
Speaker 4 (19:28):
I loved it. I done it a long time.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
It's very hard once you reach a certain level to
be able to pivot into other industries, right, to be
able to have that visibility at a strategic level, not
at an entry level, at a strategic level, and board
work is one of the ways you can do that.
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:46):
It's you have transferable skills that you've learned building and
running businesses in your core field that you can then
lend to these other businesses. But also you're learning these
other businesses. I didn't know consumer products, didn't know about
supply chain, I didn't know about the capital markets. I
was able to bring my expertise into these businesses. But
(20:07):
more importantly, I've gotten so much. I am now, you know,
if not fluent, certainly conversant in all these other industries.
And at a certain point in your career when you
may say listen. I don't want to be just CCE
the entertainment person or the music person. I want to
both intellectually and professionally expand my skill set.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
I think that's a really good reason.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
I think for an operator of a business being able
to work. If you're a CEO of a business, being
able to work alongside and watch another CEO of a
business work, and to be able to partner with them
and help them but also learn from them. I think
that's a really good reason to do. To be on
a board. I think being able to expand your network
(20:53):
beyond your industry and be on a board with board
members that are from all sorts of different industries and
would be a great network for you another great reason
to do a board. I think where people get it
wrong sometimes is they're gonna make a lot of money.
There are some opportunities to do that, but it's not.
(21:14):
Board work is not you know you're stepping into you
know you're stepping in it. That's not what it is.
I think a mistake is to do it just purely
because you think it's it's a profile choice, and I.
Speaker 4 (21:29):
Think it's important to know.
Speaker 3 (21:30):
For example, if you're an operator in a business, it's
really hard to do board work right. You might be
able to do one, but when you're on a board
the time, you don't have to be there all the time.
They are very specific times you need to show up
and be involved. But you've got to be there. So
if you're working a day job, you can't say I
(21:51):
can't be at that board meeting. You can't say I
can't you know, be on that call. You've got to
be able to create the time for that board service.
And the other issue I find with some people who
have a day job, especially if they're you know, they're
a founder or running a business, is if I'm an
investor or, I'm a board member on your company, I
(22:16):
want to know that you're one hundred and fifty percent
devoted to your day job. I don't want you using
your time and your you know, mental mass to be
supporting another company that doesn't help grow the business that
I'm involved in.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
So it does become tricky, right.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
A good you know, a good leader can see the
value of being on another board to help them developmentally
as a leader. But the idea they have to be
able to maintain their day job at one hundred and
fifty percent, and if that ever slips, you have the
duty to sure that you're fully focused on your day job.
(23:01):
The other thing I think people don't really understand is
there's real liability and being on a board actual liability.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
So boards get sued all the time.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
You have insurance, but you need to be prepared for
the fact that you have liability because you're a fiduciary
of that company. And I think you've seen it. You know,
there are people getting sued at Disney right now. There
are people who were sued the suing the shareholders that
sued Twitter, Twitter's board. You know, there there's been a lot,
(23:32):
there are a lot of lawsuits. If a shareholder thinks
that they did not that the board didn't act in
the full support of the shareholders, they're going to sue.
So just be prepared that there is liability that comes
with it, not you know, if the grass isn't always green.
Companies have problems and then you really on the hot
(23:54):
seat and you've got to be you know, roll up
your sleeves and get involved in in solving.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Those And so I'm gonna ask this question and it's
gonna sound.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
Selfish, but there's us there's very core. There's very.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Credentialed people who listen to this podcast, so there will
be value across the board. So I have the privilege
of sitting on a few boards, university boards, Ohio Casino
Control Commission, we regulate all the casinos in Ohio, et cetera.
Some international corporate boards I've sat on, and I want
My question is this, there are for people who have
(24:28):
sat on boards, there's a desire to get on bigger boards,
and you don't want to just always trip over at
these opportunities. So how can you be specific and intentional
about creating opportunities for yourself? Because I'm not a black woman,
so you know, maybe I don't qualify for your mentorship
in that way, but you know, I want but seeh
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
I appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
See but I wonder, like, how can people be intentional about,
you know, these opportunities seeking them out.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
I think I think you have have to be intentional
about the opportunities. What I tell people, because you know,
when as soon as your sort of reach a certain profile,
inevitably opportunities are going to come your way.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And I would say this in the same way that
I would.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Speak to my artists about building their own kind of
career strategies. You're going to get the incoming phone calls.
You're going to want to say no more than you
say yes.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
And so when you say be.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Intentional, think about the outgoing phone call. Think about why
you know the question we just answered, why do you
want to be on a board? Is it to expand
your professional skill set? Is it to pivot your career?
Is it to expand your network? Then you ask the question,
Then you answer the question with what companies really interest me?
(25:56):
What value could I add to a company? And then
you start to formulate an opinion around the types of
boards that would be interesting to you, whether they're big, small, private, public,
you know, that's sort of secondary. What are the companies
that are interesting to you? Because you've asked those questions,
(26:18):
and I left off one point that I think is
one of the mission critical questions for yourself. Who else
is on the board? Right, both in terms of who
are you? Who do you want to learn from, Who
do you want to be a part of your network?
Who do you admire? Who do you want to spend
a lot of time with? Because you do spend a
(26:41):
lot of time with your fellow board members critical questions
to ask if you ask me. One of the most
pivotal boards I was on was actually a nonprofit board.
It was one of my first boards, and I arrived
at this board and there were seven sitting public company
(27:02):
CEOs also on the board. When I say it was
the highest functioning board I have ever seen, the most
high functioning people, entirely productive. Every meeting ran so well
and everybody left that we left every meeting with things
having been done, decisions having been made, And to me,
(27:24):
that was actually one of the greatest learning experience around
good governance, high functioning uh you know, board meetings and
best practices.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
And what's you know.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
The byproduct of that is having spent all that quality
time peer to peer and elbow to elbow with.
Speaker 4 (27:43):
These seven sitting CEOs.
Speaker 3 (27:46):
Not only did I learn from them, but they became
part of my very very close network of advisors, of
mentors and yes of pipeline to future future board work
and career operati communities. There you cannot understate the importance
(28:07):
of the network. And I think sort of the board
pipeline gets a bit of a bad rap because it
has been historically very insulur but there's also reason for that. Really,
the decision around who gets on boards comes down to
what I call the three c's right capability. Obviously, the
(28:30):
person has to have the capabilities and the skill sets
to be on that board. Chemistry right really important. Are
you going to have chemistry with the other board members?
Are are you a growth mindset person? Are you a
fixed mindset person? Do you build consensus? Are you a
(28:51):
table pounder? Are you going to get in that room
and help it be really productive? And the last one
is character, And this one is the most important one
because I think it's the reason that boards have been
very exclusive. Unlike hiring somebody for a regular job, when
(29:11):
you put them in the boardroom, they have the enormous
power over and around the business. With that, you need
an enormous amount of trust of the person you're inviting
onto the board. You need to trust in their values,
in their ethics, in their you know, their ability to
(29:34):
not only add value, but to be constructive. And that's
not built overnight, right, You can't read that in somebody's
LinkedIn and understand you know what that character is and
you know haven't built that trust.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
So that trust means that a lot of people call
people they know.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
They call people they know, they call people they've worked with,
They've called people that that have great recommendations because people.
Speaker 4 (30:02):
They trust have worked with them.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
And historically that means it's been a very small pool
of people to pull from. And one of the things
that I certainly try to do is not only put
people on boards, but to ensure that the people making
the choices and decisions have exposure in their own network
(30:24):
to all of these amazing people that may not have
been on their radar before. Because it's not a supply issue.
I think it's a connectivity issue. Giving exposure to the
enormous supply of highly capable, talented people who are now
a part of their network, and they can build relationships
and build trust, which may lead to board opportunities, may
(30:47):
lead to other career opportunities, may lead to mentorship opportunities.
But I think really building that network and the relationships
and the trust is important a part of developing the
you know, the next generation of board members and hopefully
much more diverse and representative generation of board members as
(31:10):
just you know, pipelining resumes and using search forbs.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
So I was talking to Tristan Walker who's a friend.
It's hits on shake Check's board and foot Locker, and
we were talking about how you know, not only is
diversity on boards the right thing to do, but there's
also an economic reason there's diversity impacts the bottom line.
And I want to ask a question on this is
because at that same Afrotech executive we had with Ursula.
Speaker 2 (31:39):
Burns and Merlin and Saint.
Speaker 1 (31:40):
Till who's also on a lot of corporate boards, and
there was a conversation around should how how much weight
should we put into being on a board because you
may be black too the diversity they need that also,
And I wonder what your thoughts are on how we
should pursue board oppertunities.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Because we might also be black.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
That doesn't mean that doesn't mean we're not skilled and
doesn't mean we have have an asset to provide.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
But we're also black. How much weight should we put
into that?
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Listen, I mean, if two people are equally as qualified
for a board role, bring representation onto your board, right.
I think you know, Tristan's point is a really good one,
and it's an economic imperative, it's not a diversity imperative.
(32:34):
You know, boards should reflect their entire stakeholder group all
the way through. Right, that is their consumer, that is
their employees, that is their shareholders, that is their management teams.
Speaker 4 (32:48):
That is their board.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
So all the way through organizations, the board should reflect
every aspect of that stakeholder group. And that just becomes
an economic, you know, imperative because that means you're going
to be able to better serve your end consumer, your
end business right having representation in the room. It's one
(33:09):
thing that actually has driven me crazy about the beauty industry,
which is still so segregated. Right, Multicultural teams live over here,
general market lives over here. And you know, if you
want to actually get the best, you know for your company,
have representation throughout. Bring those multicultural folks in, have them
(33:30):
be at the point of origin of product, innovation, of marketing,
of c suite and yes of board, and you'll get
the benefit of being able to wrap your arms around
all cultures and the entire audience. And you also bring
some very important and critical perspectives into the room of
(33:51):
what they call the general market. So, but you know,
to answer your question directly, I think it's as important
that when we get on these boards that we are
high performing. We need to get on those boards and
not be in the back quiet, you know, cashing our ticket.
We need to come in these boards and have a
(34:12):
very strong voice and be able to make a real
impact on the boards. So yes, I think we need
more diversity, more people of color on boards. But it's
important when they get out to get on those boards
that they're there for the right reasons and that they're
there and can make an impact.
Speaker 4 (34:30):
Otherwise we'll start going in the other direction.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Certainly.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I think I read this from Wall Street Women's Forum,
and this was written about you. It says, utilizing her
artist development expertise to develop businesses and entrepreneurs, CC has
grown a portfolio of companies taking on varying degrees of
operational involvement. And I've referenced that because you said something
earlier regarding you know, changing from talent management to investment.
(34:56):
And so many of us, particularly career minded people, think
about they may be unhappy in what they're doing today,
they may want to do something else, and so many
of us think that we need to stop what we're
doing to do something else. You saw what you were
doing as Elite as a launch pad to do what
you're doing. Now, how should we be thinking about reimagining
(35:18):
our activities and reimagining our skill sets to be able
to deploy them to different targets instead of leaving what
we're doing altogether to start something new.
Speaker 4 (35:30):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 3 (35:31):
I think, you know, I think about that word reimagining
a little bit, and I have word.
Speaker 4 (35:37):
That I hear a lot, which is pivoting.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I think taking stock of the skill sets that you've
already developed.
Speaker 4 (35:48):
I think the idea of doing something new is really semantics. Right.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
You're going to bring your experience from whatever you've been
doing into the next thing you do. There are very
few experiences sets that have no transferable skills. Right.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
So when I say I went from.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
Talent management building living brands into investing, because immediately you
see the same thread where entrepreneurs are like artists. Right,
you're building their brands, you're telling their stories, You're ensuring
that they what they want to put forward is also
what the consumer understands, creating that connective tissue that is consistent.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
Whether you're dealing with music artists or you're dealing with
entrepreneurs and new businesses.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Launching a new business in so many ways is super
similar to developing a new artist's career.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
And as soon as I kind of.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Understood that connective tissue, because there are so many familiar moments,
it gives you a whole other level of confidence.
Speaker 4 (36:57):
Right That's like, Oh, I'm not switch careers. I am
taking everything.
Speaker 3 (37:03):
I've built and developed and learned and internalized, and I'm
applying it to a new uh industry, or I'm applying
it to a new position or a new career strategy.
But I would never say you're you know, You're never
starting from scratch, is what my point is, so really
being able to take stock of the amazing experience that
(37:25):
you've already built and think about how it translates into
some of these other areas.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afrotech
in the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media,
and it's produced by Morgan DeVaughn and me Well Lucas.
The additional production support by Sarah Ragan and Rose McLucas.
Special thank you to Mike and Davis. When That's surround
Knowing my emoldru Learn more about my casts and other
tech disrupteds to innovators at afrotech dot com enjoy your
(38:06):
black tech, green money. Share us to somebody, Go get
your money.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
He's some love.
Host
Will Lucas
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