April 24, 2024 • 39 mins
Sade Robinson is having fun on her first date with a new guy. They pose together and post the picture to social media. Sade had no idea she was taking a picture with the devil and she only had hours to live.
In this episode of "Body Bags," Joseph Scott Morgan will explain how the killer sealed his fate by trying to destroy evidence with fire.
Transcribe Highlights
00:22.97 Introduction Milwaukee
05:01.65. Talk about Jeffrey Dahmer
07:29.72 Discussion of dismemberment
09:53.60 Talk about getting rid of smell with tires
14:06.81 Discussion of finding leg
20:10.93 Talk about remains being compromised
25:18.19. Breaking down the timeline
30:30.67. Discussion of other women missing
34:38.48 Talk about fire inside a car
36:38.64 Discussion of witness who saw person use lighter to start car fire
39:33.42 Conclusion – how remains will tell what really happened to Sade
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan in nineteen ninety four, had
the good fortune of being tasked with being part group.
It was a group that was actually established by the
(00:30):
National Institute of Justice through the Federal Justice Department, and
what we were tasked with was designing the national standards
for medical legal death investigators nationwide. And I got to
tell you, out of everything I did in my career,
pretty dull gone proud of that. You guys can go
look at them. They're available there. Just go to nij
(00:52):
dot gov and you can search it out. It's there.
But you know, part of that journey to developing those standards,
which was roughly about a I don't know, probably about
a three year process, was the travel that I had
to do. And out of all the cities that I
traveled to while I was developing these, my favorite soon
(01:13):
became Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Now Milwaukee, for those of you that
don't know, is a neat place by virtue of the
fact of there's so many cultures there, and particularly German
and Polish culture, and growing up in the South, I
was never really exposed to their food that much, and
boy was food great. I really enjoyed it. And I
(01:37):
enjoyed the people too, and the beauty. We were like
actually on the shore of Lake Michigan. I'd always been
to the ocean, I had never even seen the That
was my first introduction of the Great Lakes, and it's
just so gorgeous. The water was so beautiful. But you know,
around that same time, there was a real evil that
(01:58):
had occurred in Milwaukee in the form of a person
named Jeffrey Dahmer, and the guy that headed up the committee,
who was the chief medical Examiner for Milwaukee, had handled
those cases. Today, on body bags, I want to talk
about something that has just occurred in the last few
(02:20):
days in the city that I really love, Milwaukee, and
it is a horrific case, a horrific case involving a
young woman who was right on the cusp of entering
in to full adulthood, making her way in this world,
(02:42):
and unfortunately she died at the hands of an apparent
monster who wasn't just satisfied with killing her, he also
felt the need to dismember her. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and that this is body bats. Dave you ever been
(03:05):
to Milwaukee. I have not, you have not.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
No, it's a.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Cool trip I felt. I've been to Chicago. Chicago felt
a bit overwhelming to me. It's so spread out, it's
really big. I don't think people really realize how close
Milwaukee and Chicago are. It's literally traveled northward on the
interstate and you will eventually hit Milwaukee. And Wisconsin itself
(03:30):
is a beautiful state, green, lush, rolling hills. I found
the people to be very friendly, and if you enjoy beer,
it's a great place. And if you enjoy German food,
oh my lord, it is incredible, very rich. And since
this time, since back in nineteen ninety four, I've been
back up there many times and have just fallen in
(03:50):
love with a place. Love going up there and checking
it out.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I have to wonder, how can a place this so
beautiful that you have such fond memories of, that has
so much How can it be home to two of
the sickest murderers, Jeffrey Dahmer and now Maxwell allegedly Maxwell Anderson.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah? Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I think about that as well. We know that
there's evil out there.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Until this evil took place, it was exactly as you're
explaining it was. For Shawday Robinson, she was excited about
a first date with the guy. Shaw Day is a wonderful,
smart a person. Everybody liked, the person who never called
out at work. Everybody liked work. Everybody felt like the
world was a better place with her in it. And
(04:37):
she was excited. She was talking to people about this
date she was going on when they were texting back
and forth. Been her and Maxwell Anderson. You know about
where to eat? She said, I'm feeling seafood, feeling seafood.
So he takes her to a place he used to work.
That's where they went to eat seafood. And she goes
on this date just like anyone else goes on a date.
(04:58):
They had a fun time. They eat dinner. They then
go and have a couple of drinks, just being together,
getting to know one another on a first date. It
seemed like they're having a great time.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I think. I think. Actually the bartender saw these two
at the bar, didn't they Yeah, And they weren't fighting
or anything.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
No, No, they were again, it was a great first date.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It was a great first date on every angle except
for how it ended. And how it ended was they
go back to his apartment. Now I point this out,
it was a great first date. They hadn't they didn't meet.
It wasn't a blind date. I mean, it wasn't like
they had no communication beforehand. They had you know, they
had built up a time together communicating with one another
(05:42):
to leading up to this first date. And then the
first date goes well and they end up going back
to Maxwell Anderson's place. That's how so you know, the
date wasn't crazy. They weren't violently fighting with or arguing
or anything else.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
They well, they don't have any history. They don't have
any history. I mean, you have to have history most
of the time in a relationship to fight about something.
I mean, where are you going to find common ground
to fight on? You know? I mean this is a
first state. You wouldn't expect that. That's I think that
that's what makes this really a bit darker.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Which is why it fits into what you were saying
about Milwaukee, about the area about it has all these
great things that you can put together with it, yet
it can it can also have this type of behavior
that goes well beyond anything you and I would ever imagine.
But now, Joe, ever since we went to crime Con
(06:33):
last fall and did the show about people being dismembered, right,
and you talked about this is really becoming common. And
here we are again with another episode where a person
is accused of luring somebody and that O don't the house.
You can prove because of what happened. It's like he
had to have been putting a different face forward to
(06:54):
her to lure her through the whole night, very engaging,
very nice, And they go back to his apartment where
he then kills her and cuts her up allegedly allegedly. Yeah,
and then wait a minute, but that's not where the
shock ends, Joe. No, he doesn't just leave her there.
He doesn't just go and dig a hole in the
backyard and put No. He then allegedly starts spreading her
(07:17):
body parts around to just be found by people for
a shock value. Is the guy writing a script for
a horror movie? What makes somebody Joseph Scott Morgan get
to the point where it's no longer just enough to
cut a body up of somebody you've just had a
great date with, to cut them up and then make
(07:37):
sure that regular people walk in the street, earl walking
certain areas could find these body parts. And hey, let
me draw a little of attention to myself and set
the car on fire so that that can draw attention
back to her.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That's a fascinating point. It makes me. You know, first off,
I've covered dismemberment cases and many times dismembered parts will
be packaged somehow and then they'll be deposited into some
kind of wastebind, and you know where you can have
a passerby that are a homeless person that's digging in
the wastebind they find this part. You know, it's a
(08:10):
big shock. And many times you think, well, the perpetrators
trying obviously trying to obscure what they've done, and they
want to put as much distance between themselves and those
dismembered remains. But what you're talking about, it actually makes
me reflect back to a series of serial killings back
in New Orleans many years ago that I worked. I
(08:32):
think I caught too. This guy killed a whole series
of people, but I caught too, and Dave, this was
really interesting, interesting finding when he would kill he would
kill prostitutes. And when he would kill them, first off,
he would redress them and only in their underwear, and
the underwear was always turned inside out and forgive me.
I can't remember the diagram, the name of the diagram,
(08:55):
but do you know the drawing that Leonardo da Vinci
did that shows anatomical man with the arms spread upward
like this and the body makes kind of an X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well,
each one of these bodies Dave was in that position,
legs spread, arms extended diagonally upward, and he would surround
(09:19):
the body with tires. And here's the one thing about
that case. And I came to the same conclusion that
you just came to about these deposition of remains. He
did not want individuals to smell the bodies, because you
can't smell anything if you've got a huge collection of tires.
All these bodies were found in like industrial areas where
(09:42):
there'd be like a big deposition of old tires, so
someone would have to visually find these bodies. And to
a person that discovered these bodies, they were shocked because
the body is decomposing and you can't smell it past
the tire. I actually remember conducting an experiment. We were
along in industrial canal in New Orleans and there was
a rotten dead catfish. This is on the second case,
(10:05):
and I picked up the catfish, and I put it
into the center of a tire just to test this hypothesis.
And the more tires are stacked that I stacked with
the catfish down at the bottom. You couldn't smell the catfish,
and rotten catfish stinks. And so I think that a
lot of this goes the deposition of remains here. There's
(10:29):
no rhyme to it necessarily. I'm really interesting if they're
going to do like a geographic profile in this case.
I think that this is ripe for this that try
to understand where these remains are deposited and what knowledge
would the perpetrator have about the location? Are you selecting
these because people walk their dogs, take their kids to
(10:51):
play in the park. You know there's a nice bench
where you're going to sit down. Is that the case?
Because if it is, this is how bleak this becomes
really really quick. Dave, the idea here is that not
only do you want to murder Shahda, but you want
(11:13):
to take her body and use it to terrify an
entire city. With my brother, Dave, educate me, man, what's
(11:39):
the Leonardo da Vinci diagram? Called again that I could
not remember.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The trouvian man and b I t are you v
I A n.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Listen everybody, Well, you can't say everybody. The lion's share
of the population has seen this. I knew what you
were talking about. I had to do.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I had to hit it. And all I could think
of when I was looking at it is Joe. I'm
glad you walked away from doing what you were doing,
and I'm glad you're teaching now because people like me
that are have reported and investigated things have no idea
about the things that you talk about on a daily
basis and explain. And I know that I appreciate being
(12:23):
a part of this because it gives me a different
look at things. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's
just I had no idea how people really I'm not
as shocked at things anymore. I'm more shocked. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, it does. And I think a lot of
it is in with Chade's case. You think that it's
kind of this progression into hell if you will, and
you and it's in degrees, okay, and you begin to
think about you sit around, it's like you think about
how much more evil can this get? And that's a
terrible thing to throw out there because the world will say, Okay,
(13:00):
I'll show you how much more evil this can every time,
every single time. And I really think from an academic standpoint,
I really need to start doing a study about these
dismemberment cases. We've talked about it several times. There seems
to be an uptick and this is happening, and I
think that it goes to a level of callousness that
perhaps that we haven't experienced in modern times certainly, and
(13:21):
ancient times perhaps, But it is the most evil thing
that you can do. And you know, just the other day,
I had the privilege of appearing on Nancy's program on
Merritt Street Media with her, and you know, Dave, my
heart was breaking because Chade's mom was on there with us.
And I can't and I don't know that any of
(13:43):
us can actually begin to fathom the depths of grief
and pain. It's hard enough, and this is real. I
know this is wrote to say that it's hard enough
to lose a child, But when you lose a child
in this manner and you don't have your child whole,
think about that just for a second, and you're getting
(14:04):
notified by the police. Her body is being discovered piecemeal,
and every single time it's almost like Shaddy's mother is
having to relive this notification over and over and over
and over again. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Please please take
(14:24):
me back to that period where they made the first
discovery because one of the things I was hearing was
they had discovered a foot with pink tonail polish on it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, when you were talking about them continuing to
find and her her mother doing the show with Nancy.
You know, she has refused all other invitations for interviews.
She only did the show with Nancy because she thought
one she loves Nancy, She'll do one national show and
if y'all want to know what I'm thinking, use that
(14:57):
interview with her. And that's what they're doing in coverage.
But the fact that it's gone on for almost three
weeks now is we're taping this and they're still finding
body parts in the last eighteen hours. The shot goes
beyond anything I can imagine in looking at when this
took place. Shaw Day would have graduated from college in
(15:19):
May with her associates degree, and she was a month
away from being twenty nineteen years old. Getting it. I
mean not not even a totally legal adult yet right now,
and goes out on this date with Maxwell Anderson. Now,
we got two ways of going through this. Let's start
with her car found burning. Okay, let me start right there,
because that's when the attention started to get drawn into
(15:39):
Somebody's gone Shawdey Robinson's car is found burning seven thirty
in the morning. It's a blue Honda Civic. A witness
sees a man with a tan backpack get out of
the car. Man throws a lit lighter inside the driver's side.
Car ignites. Man walks away towards a bus stop. The
witness lags down passing cars. Hey call nine one one. Meanwhile,
maxwellam is seen carrying this tan backpack on a bus camera,
(16:04):
because there are cameras everywhere. The next day, April second,
her right leg was found at Warnamont Park. The leg
was found by a civilian on the beach north of
the pumphouse. There is a cliff leading down to the
beach and the leg appeared to have been sawed off
at the hip. Now, according to what we were told
(16:25):
from the very beginning, the leg appeared to be long
to a black female about five feet tall. Still had
pink nail polish on the toes. Joe. The femur was
snapped off. Yeah, the bone was sawed halfway through and
all I could think of And I hate to even
say this, but for anybody who has ever had to
(16:46):
cut a tree, yep, you're cutting a tree limb, you
get halfway through it, and you're tired and you just
snap yep. Is that what they're saying happened with her femur?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah? Yeah, that would approximate it. And it's look, it's
the same principle here and is you know, it sets
your teeth on edge, you know when you hear this.
Here's the thing when an individual would attempt. First off,
most people, and we've talked about this, Lord help us,
when most people, I think, endeavor to do a dismemberment,
(17:19):
they don't think about having to get through the soft tissue,
and it gets very frustrating, particularly if you're using and
at this point we don't know what type of tool
was used. I've had cases involving I think of this
young lady out in Seattle I covered a couple of
years ago. He had used a bosaw like you trim
your bushes with, and done that in the bathtub, and
(17:39):
it's very rough going. If you know, in the morgue
we have scalpels, you know, in these sorts of instruments,
very sharp scissors, and we can go through soft tissue
to get to the bone. But if the only instrument
that you have is in fact a saw, and it
can even be a power saw that is not created
in order to go through soft tissue. And so when
(18:01):
you get down to the actual shaft of a long bone.
You had mentioned the femur, which you have many times,
is that it's just like sawing wood. Forensic anthropologists study
these things where and there are some forensic anthropologists, believe
it or not, that specialize indismemberment. That's all they study.
They study tool marks on bones. It's a fascinating field.
(18:24):
It's gruesome, but it's a fascinating feel from that perspective.
They'll have these stop starts, and you can identify with
this with sawing a piece of wood. Have you ever
saw it and then gotten out of the groove. Well,
every time you do that, you put an additional mark
on the piece of wood. Same thing applies to bone.
It's hard work. It makes no mistake about it. If
you're so frustrated and you've gotten down and this is
(18:45):
just one limb we're talking about, Dave, one limb. It
has to be then if you get frustrated, you got
to snap it off and then detach the rest of
the soft tissue. You're frustrated, You've burned up all over
your energy. Now what are you going to do? Well?
Maybe the perpetrators thinking about you know, I'm going to
take these items out, these elements of the body and
(19:05):
deposit them in various places as I build back up
my energy. Then you go back and you do it again.
You do it again, you do it again, and then
every time you're moving out of the house or whatever,
you're redepositing. Maybe at some point in time he saw
it off, two appendages, and in one run he deposited
(19:27):
them in various locations. Who knows, we're going to find out,
but there will be a tremendous amount of evidence. I
think in the basement of this home. What really kind
of peaks my curiosity about this is not so much
to dismemberment, as ghastly as that is. Are they going
(19:49):
to be capable of determining her cause of death? We
know the Manner's homicide. But how degraded were the remains
of how traumatized posts more? I'm trump, I'm talking about
where the remains is there's a bullet hole, if there's
an injury to the neck, this sort of thing. Is
it going to be compromised so that you're not going
to be able to make out truly what happened? I
(20:12):
think that that that's going to be difficult. And you know,
the folks at the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's office, they
could do this one of two ways. They can say, Okay,
we're going to take this recently arrived remain and set
it aside and before we do the totality of the examination.
(20:34):
Because they know that they've got this young woman missing,
they're finding parts, so they wait until everything comes in.
Or a question to ask is are they examining each
remain as it comes in. My suspicion is they're waiting
until they get the body in totality, you know, until
they've recovered as much as they possibly can.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think day with the leg being found, we didn't
think of the first leg being found being the first
body part deposited. And that's not always the case. It
just happened to be the first one that was fast
one found. Yeah, but there are things that they were
talking about where it was found. Are we talking about
the alleged perpetrator throwing it in the water and it
(21:14):
floating up on the shore. Can you imagine what is
he doing? Is he trying to hide it? What's he
trying to do? Is he trying to set it so
people will find it? Trying to throw it up?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean yeah to me, I mean, look allegedly again allegedly,
here we go. One of the things that's been put forward,
and I find this quite fascinating, that is that there
was a hole dug in his backyard of that home.
And this home, by the way, when you see the
images of it, is neat as a pin. The grass
(21:43):
is very well groomed, the house is very well kept,
it would appear. And you look at this and you think, okay,
you've dug a hole in the backyard, and you're thinking,
does this go to premeditation? You know, what's the purpose
of having this hole? Are you gonna you know, it's springtime,
or you think about putting in a flower bed or
putting in tomatoes? Because I don't know, maybe that's what
(22:04):
a defense attorney would say. And you know you're it's
a free country. You're welcome digs me holes in your yard.
I guess as you want to. But from an investigative standpoint,
if I'm seeing this, I'm thinking, well, maybe thought it
wasn't such a good idea to have this deceased young
lady on his premises in the wake of the fact
(22:28):
that he has been spotted in a bar and a
restaurant with her. He's the last person that was seen
with her alive. They're going to come asking questions, and
he doesn't want to have to explain why she is
buried in his backyard. Years ago, I actually had a case,
(23:08):
actually it was a colleague of mine that had a
case where a plastic grocery store bag was found and
contained within the bag was a head. And I remember
the feeling that I had in the wake of that discovery,
and all of us did. I think many of us
at the Emmy's office had that feeling, the same idea, Well,
(23:33):
when's the rest of the body going to show up?
And in that case, all we were left with was ahead.
Nothing else ever showed up. And that does happen. It
does happen. So you take that idea, and I'm thinking
about the investigative staff at the Emmy's office, and of
course the police that are working this case. And I'm thinking, Dave,
(23:54):
well are they Are they sitting on pins and needles?
Can you imagine being a homicide detective assigned to this?
And You're thinking, Okay, let's take an inventory of what
we have at this point? Where else can we look?
Is the body ever going to be reconstituted to some level?
Because I got to tell you, just listening to Shade's
mother the other day, she ain't gonna have burial until
(24:16):
she has her baby back. And that's just that's the
reality of it. What do we have up to this point?
And when were these items discovered?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Two things that got me, Joe. One was the fire man.
We'll come to that. But my first thought when I
heard the car was on fire, I thought he did
it to get rid of evidence. The alleged perpetrator did
it to get rid of evidence. But if you've listened
to Joseph Scott Morgan long and if you know that
the perpetrator, by lighting it on fire, didn't destroy evidence.
He actually probably locked some evidence in we'll get into that.
(24:49):
April first, Shade Robinson has disappeared. Had a date that
evening April second, seven thirty am. Her car is on fire.
It's found burning in an alley five point thirty That afternoon,
her car is at seven thirty am on fire. She's
missing five point thirty to the afternoon. The human leg
with the pink toenails is found in Warnamont Park. Two
days later, Maxwell Anderson is brought in for questioning because
(25:12):
they know that he was last on with her. The
next day, April fifth, three days after the first body
part was found, another body part found, this time near
thirtieth in Lisbon. The next day, human remains located near
thirty first Angalina. April seventh, more human remains located near
thirty first in Walnut. The next day, April eighth. Officers
(25:33):
are still combing the park for evidence and collected more items.
But when police find it, we don't know exactly what
they found. The only time we know what is actually
found is when a civilian finds it and they tell
us before the police do.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I'm sitting back and I'm thinking, my lord, I mean,
what else what else could their Torso?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, arm how about that that was found Joe just
the other day. Yeah, we are three weeks now away
from this almost and her or so an arm of
shade Robinson washed up on Milwaukee Beach.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So that begs the question, doesn't it is he? Why
would an individual who is randomly doing these these deposits,
why would he choose some of them to be Because
you know, if we go back to the leg that's
on the beach, was this something that he had walked
out into the water or did he And if you've
never seen the Great League Lakes, they they do have.
(26:29):
Look it's not like going to Hawaii, but there is
kind of a surf that's there. You know, the current
will push things into the beach. You can see breakers,
you know, on the shore, particularly if the weather stormy,
it looks like you're at the ocean. Did he not
walk the remains out there? Or did he take the
remains and put them into a tributary and have them
(26:50):
washed down the tributary and they wind up flowing back
into the shore. I think that that's certainly something you know,
to be considered. Here are these placements random? One of
the things that keeps going through my head. Dave about
this case, is that is this the first time this
(27:13):
individual has done this? Because you're talking about brother, You're
talking about going from zero to a thousand, All right,
this is not this is not like you know, you
kind of slipped into these waters and you're doing things
that you shouldn't be doing. Is you begin to think
has he attacked other people? Has he been this? Is
(27:35):
there this level of violence? Has he used sharp instruments
on anybody even in a fight? Has he threatened to
carve somebody up? Here's another big one. Are there any
other women in Milwaukee that fit the description of shah Day?
(27:57):
They are missing? And I think that that that's certainly
something to consider where this would have to have been done.
You know, when you talk about dismemberment, you have to
have privacy. There's no way you're going to roll out
into the backyard and start doing this. You have to
have privacy. And from what I'm what I am hearing,
there's been a considerable amount of blood deposition in his
(28:22):
basement apartment essentially, or basement living.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Space actually in the hallway leading down on the stairway.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, and so was he dragging body parts up there?
And you know, and what else is in there. Here's
the other thing. When they sweep this area, when law
enforcement and I can assume that they have done this,
when they bring in that team of forensic scientists, the
random sampling in that environment, you expect to find his DNA.
(28:50):
You're going to find probably I think his parents actually
own the home and they've relocated to Florida. They're going
to find their DNA. Any of his buddies, you might
find theirs. But is there any unidentified DNA that's down there?
Is there any DNA that they could perhaps profile where
they could do phenotyping or get an idea as to
(29:13):
who this individual may have been, who it belongs to,
Because look, that question has to be asked, and I
think that the people in Milwaukee would want an answer
to that, because if they've got young women that are missing,
your boy right here, he moves up to the top
of the list for me. I want to look through
that home, any kind of vehicle he has, anything that
(29:35):
I want to search it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Joe, Okay, Just to give you an idea. His dad's
very wealthy, a rich businessman. Maxwell Anderson was a high
school football star. After he didn't really amount to a
whole lot. He's worked for his daut a couple of
times didn't really work out. He's ended up as a
bartender pretty much working as a bartender and what have you.
In and around Milwaukee. He did run a foul of
(29:58):
the law with the family members. It apparently has some
He's acted out a couple of times where police had
to be called. I'll give it that, but nothing like
this right now. Don't know if we have any other
women who have come forward to talk to police. We
don't know that yet, mainly because they have Maxwell Anderson
in jail. They've charged him with shaw Dave Robinson's murder
and now they're putting the case together and they'll reach
(30:19):
out and if any women have come forward with other stories,
they're probably looking, you know, that's what yeah, buddy.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Let me tell you. They're going through his phone. They're
going through social media, any kind of dating apps that
he has there. They're going to be looking and say, look,
have you had contact with him? How did he behave
And they'll be bringing each and every one of these
points of contact along, not to mention all of his coworkers,
you know, the people that were in the bar. Did
(30:46):
he ever get spicy with any of the patrons that
came in there, you know, because fascinating. Yeah, go ahead,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
The night they were out, the night that he was out,
it was like they went he went overboard to make
it not just a routine first date, but a good state.
Because halfway through the night they took a picture and
sent it out. They're sending out Instagram photos on their date.
I mean this guy was he planned this out because
look at what happens next. Follow this timeline, Joe, It's
(31:13):
very tight. Robinson and Anderson they go out to eat
at a bar heead, a restaurant he used to work at.
Then they sit at the bar and eat their food.
Everybody sees them being pleasant. They leave that restaurant. They
go to Duke's on Water. A pole camera actually picks
them up and Robinson's Honda Civic is parked at six
thirty three. Six thirty four, Robinson and Anderson get out
(31:35):
of the car. Nine oh four, Robinson and Anderson return
to the car. Robinson and Anderson are seen at Anderson's
home by a neighbor's camera at nine twenty four pm.
There are two figures seen entering Anderson's backyard. This is
one made you think about the hole that you said
he dug. At nine to twenty six, a living room
light is turned on inside the home. At eleven twenty
(31:59):
five eleven twenty five, a figure coming in and out
of the home into the backyard on and off until
twelve forty five am. At twelve forty seven am, Robinson's
car departs Anderson's house. That would mean Shaw Deve Robinson's
(32:20):
Honda Civic leaves Maxwell Anderson's home at twelve forty seven am.
We know they arrived and she was fine, alive, walk well,
assuming it's her. Two figures entering the backyard at nine
twenty four pm at eleven twenty five, one person is
seen going in and out of the house for the
next hour, and so you know Delly leaves, So she's
(32:42):
dead by eleven twenty five, two hours dead.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
You got up. Yeah, And if he had the tools
at his disposal at that point, Tom and he had
a location where he could do this effectively and efficiently
as mechanical as that sounds. Did he use the car
in order to transport these remains and deposit them? Was
this a one time deposition thing where he's he's just
(33:07):
making the rounds to all these various locations, and that
does in fact bring us to the car because my
understanding is that they have also found gasoline containers that
he had at home. And here's the thing, if you
what people don't understand about using accelerants. I think that
it's fascinating. First off, that he strikes a lighter and
(33:29):
this is witnessed. He strikes a lighter outside of her
car and walks away, and then the next thing you know,
the car is engulfed. And you know, I'm always picking
on Hollywood, I know, on the show, but cars just
don't explode, all right, like that. Now you can have problem,
you can have that it does happen. But that's the
(33:51):
exception as opposed to the norm, all right, particularly from
within the cockpit of the car itself, within where the
driver's seat is sits and all of this sort of thing.
So there has to be an accelerant at work. What's
going to happen with all of the material in that
car that they can save? And this is kind of fascinating.
(34:12):
When the arson investigators work that car, they're going to
take samples from within that car and they're going to
put them into this they're going to put it into
a paint can, okay, and what will happen is those
items settle, Like if it's a cloth off of the seat,
for instance.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Well, the paint can have it. They're gonna put it
in a paint can. What's in the pain can, Well,
I say paint can. It's a can that looks like
a paint can. They're all silver and they're used for
collecting arson evidence. And so what happens is as gravity
takes hold and that that item settles to the bottom
of the can, any fumes that are contained on that
(34:52):
item rise within that can, and they're going to take
a big plunger and they're going to stick it in
there and.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
They're going to draw off that gas. And then they're
going to walk over to a GC mass spec which
is a gas chromatograph that's attached to a mass spect machine,
and they're going to begin to take that sample and
run it through the machine and it gives you a
chemical signature. All right. I'm not going to go into
(35:21):
all the details, but with the GC you begin to
kind of formulate what is present, okay, within the sample.
You can kind of get a generalized idea when it's
drawn over to the mass spec We're talking about spectrometry,
and so every element that you have out there bends
(35:42):
light in a certain way, and so when you're talking
about something like gas or ethanol, it's going to refract
I guess is the best way to put it. It'll
bend the light and it gives you a specific readout
on this thing. All gas, like you draw up at
(36:04):
the gas station, is pretty much the same. What separates
it though, is the detergents that the individual companies put
in there. So if we look at something like VP
or Texaco or Gulf or Shell Chevron, it doesn't matter
they all, you know, we see these things, you know
with I don't know, and they're not sponsoring the show.
(36:25):
But whoever it is, it says, you know, our gas
has techron in it. Well, techron is some kind of
substance they have in there that is supposed to reduce gunk. Okay, Well,
it has a very specific signature that's different than the gasoline.
And so if this suspect has taken those gas cans
(36:45):
and gone to a local filling station, well that's an
old term people don't use any more, gone to a
local filling station and filled up these cans with it.
There's going to be a very specific chemical signature goes
back to that gas if that's what he used as
the accelerant. And so that's what I mean, Dave. You
(37:06):
know when I talk about things like, yeah, you're trying
to destroy evidence, and maybe there was blood evidence in
that car, because you know, maybe if he's using it
to convey this precious girl's remains all over the place,
maybe he got rid of the blood evidence, but he's
not going to get rid of that accelerant that was
in there, and that's going to be his undoing. I
(37:27):
think whoever I thought it says I heard fire.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That was my first thought was jo Just Scott said
that he just burned himself by setting that fire. That's
what I heard you say, you know, because I've heard
you talk about what a fire does look.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You and I have both been around We grew up
in sixties, right, We've both been around cigarettes our entire lives.
One way or another, we smoked or we didn't smoke.
Certainly our parents smoked. I can't remember. I can't count
how many times I've been burned by a cigarette, not
on purpose, but you know, parents used to smoke around
us all the time, and you know they'd burn you,
you know, when they're lighting up or whatever. But have
(38:02):
you ever seen somebody drop a cigarette onto like the
surface of a seat and a car well that it
smolders it catch it if it's fabric or I guess
it could be pleather or whatever it is in your car,
it's going to burn a hole in it. But guess
what it's not going to do. It's not going to
explode and envelop the car. Okay, that just doesn't happen.
(38:23):
And you have to have an initiate with him striking
that lighter. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, is that
we've actually got a witness that saw this person strike
this lighter. And I've got visions of zippos coming into
my mind right now, and you know, a lighter that
(38:44):
would stay burning and take it and toss it like
some movie into the cockpit of the car and suddenly
the thing's enveloped in flame. Now you might think that
you're going to get rid of everything, but I can
tell you science in the end is gonna get you.
And you can say that not only about the fire.
(39:07):
You can say that about the blood that was left
behind at his scene. You can say that about the
ct TV, but you know what else you can say
it about out there. Her remains are pointing a finger
(39:29):
back at this perpetrator, and her remains, in the end
will tell the tale of Shade's death. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body Bags.
Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan in nineteen ninety four, had
the good fortune of being tasked with being part group.
It was a group that was actually established by the
(00:30):
National Institute of Justice through the Federal Justice Department, and
what we were tasked with was designing the national standards
for medical legal death investigators nationwide. And I got to
tell you, out of everything I did in my career,
pretty dull gone proud of that. You guys can go
look at them. They're available there. Just go to nij
(00:52):
dot gov and you can search it out. It's there.
But you know, part of that journey to developing those standards,
which was roughly about a I don't know, probably about
a three year process, was the travel that I had
to do. And out of all the cities that I
traveled to while I was developing these, my favorite soon
(01:13):
became Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Now Milwaukee, for those of you that
don't know, is a neat place by virtue of the
fact of there's so many cultures there, and particularly German
and Polish culture, and growing up in the South, I
was never really exposed to their food that much, and
boy was food great. I really enjoyed it. And I
(01:37):
enjoyed the people too, and the beauty. We were like
actually on the shore of Lake Michigan. I'd always been
to the ocean, I had never even seen the That
was my first introduction of the Great Lakes, and it's
just so gorgeous. The water was so beautiful. But you know,
around that same time, there was a real evil that
(01:58):
had occurred in Milwaukee in the form of a person
named Jeffrey Dahmer, and the guy that headed up the committee,
who was the chief medical Examiner for Milwaukee, had handled
those cases. Today, on body bags, I want to talk
about something that has just occurred in the last few
(02:20):
days in the city that I really love, Milwaukee, and
it is a horrific case, a horrific case involving a
young woman who was right on the cusp of entering
in to full adulthood, making her way in this world,
(02:42):
and unfortunately she died at the hands of an apparent
monster who wasn't just satisfied with killing her, he also
felt the need to dismember her. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan
and that this is body bats. Dave you ever been
(03:05):
to Milwaukee. I have not, you have not.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
No, it's a.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Cool trip I felt. I've been to Chicago. Chicago felt
a bit overwhelming to me. It's so spread out, it's
really big. I don't think people really realize how close
Milwaukee and Chicago are. It's literally traveled northward on the
interstate and you will eventually hit Milwaukee. And Wisconsin itself
(03:30):
is a beautiful state, green, lush, rolling hills. I found
the people to be very friendly, and if you enjoy beer,
it's a great place. And if you enjoy German food,
oh my lord, it is incredible, very rich. And since
this time, since back in nineteen ninety four, I've been
back up there many times and have just fallen in
(03:50):
love with a place. Love going up there and checking
it out.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
I have to wonder, how can a place this so
beautiful that you have such fond memories of, that has
so much How can it be home to two of
the sickest murderers, Jeffrey Dahmer and now Maxwell allegedly Maxwell Anderson.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Yeah? Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Yeah, I think about that as well. We know that
there's evil out there.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
Until this evil took place, it was exactly as you're
explaining it was. For Shawday Robinson, she was excited about
a first date with the guy. Shaw Day is a wonderful,
smart a person. Everybody liked, the person who never called
out at work. Everybody liked work. Everybody felt like the
world was a better place with her in it. And
(04:37):
she was excited. She was talking to people about this
date she was going on when they were texting back
and forth. Been her and Maxwell Anderson. You know about
where to eat? She said, I'm feeling seafood, feeling seafood.
So he takes her to a place he used to work.
That's where they went to eat seafood. And she goes
on this date just like anyone else goes on a date.
(04:58):
They had a fun time. They eat dinner. They then
go and have a couple of drinks, just being together,
getting to know one another on a first date. It
seemed like they're having a great time.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
I think. I think. Actually the bartender saw these two
at the bar, didn't they Yeah, And they weren't fighting
or anything.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
No, No, they were again, it was a great first date.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It was a great first date on every angle except
for how it ended. And how it ended was they
go back to his apartment. Now I point this out,
it was a great first date. They hadn't they didn't meet.
It wasn't a blind date. I mean, it wasn't like
they had no communication beforehand. They had you know, they
had built up a time together communicating with one another
(05:42):
to leading up to this first date. And then the
first date goes well and they end up going back
to Maxwell Anderson's place. That's how so you know, the
date wasn't crazy. They weren't violently fighting with or arguing
or anything else.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
They well, they don't have any history. They don't have
any history. I mean, you have to have history most
of the time in a relationship to fight about something.
I mean, where are you going to find common ground
to fight on? You know? I mean this is a
first state. You wouldn't expect that. That's I think that
that's what makes this really a bit darker.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
Which is why it fits into what you were saying
about Milwaukee, about the area about it has all these
great things that you can put together with it, yet
it can it can also have this type of behavior
that goes well beyond anything you and I would ever imagine.
But now, Joe, ever since we went to crime Con
(06:33):
last fall and did the show about people being dismembered, right,
and you talked about this is really becoming common. And
here we are again with another episode where a person
is accused of luring somebody and that O don't the house.
You can prove because of what happened. It's like he
had to have been putting a different face forward to
(06:54):
her to lure her through the whole night, very engaging,
very nice, And they go back to his apartment where
he then kills her and cuts her up allegedly allegedly. Yeah,
and then wait a minute, but that's not where the
shock ends, Joe. No, he doesn't just leave her there.
He doesn't just go and dig a hole in the
backyard and put No. He then allegedly starts spreading her
(07:17):
body parts around to just be found by people for
a shock value. Is the guy writing a script for
a horror movie? What makes somebody Joseph Scott Morgan get
to the point where it's no longer just enough to
cut a body up of somebody you've just had a
great date with, to cut them up and then make
(07:37):
sure that regular people walk in the street, earl walking
certain areas could find these body parts. And hey, let
me draw a little of attention to myself and set
the car on fire so that that can draw attention
back to her.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
That's a fascinating point. It makes me. You know, first off,
I've covered dismemberment cases and many times dismembered parts will
be packaged somehow and then they'll be deposited into some
kind of wastebind, and you know where you can have
a passerby that are a homeless person that's digging in
the wastebind they find this part. You know, it's a
(08:10):
big shock. And many times you think, well, the perpetrators
trying obviously trying to obscure what they've done, and they
want to put as much distance between themselves and those
dismembered remains. But what you're talking about, it actually makes
me reflect back to a series of serial killings back
in New Orleans many years ago that I worked. I
(08:32):
think I caught too. This guy killed a whole series
of people, but I caught too, and Dave, this was
really interesting, interesting finding when he would kill he would
kill prostitutes. And when he would kill them, first off,
he would redress them and only in their underwear, and
the underwear was always turned inside out and forgive me.
I can't remember the diagram, the name of the diagram,
(08:55):
but do you know the drawing that Leonardo da Vinci
did that shows anatomical man with the arms spread upward
like this and the body makes kind of an X. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well,
each one of these bodies Dave was in that position,
legs spread, arms extended diagonally upward, and he would surround
(09:19):
the body with tires. And here's the one thing about
that case. And I came to the same conclusion that
you just came to about these deposition of remains. He
did not want individuals to smell the bodies, because you
can't smell anything if you've got a huge collection of tires.
All these bodies were found in like industrial areas where
(09:42):
there'd be like a big deposition of old tires, so
someone would have to visually find these bodies. And to
a person that discovered these bodies, they were shocked because
the body is decomposing and you can't smell it past
the tire. I actually remember conducting an experiment. We were
along in industrial canal in New Orleans and there was
a rotten dead catfish. This is on the second case,
(10:05):
and I picked up the catfish, and I put it
into the center of a tire just to test this hypothesis.
And the more tires are stacked that I stacked with
the catfish down at the bottom. You couldn't smell the catfish,
and rotten catfish stinks. And so I think that a
lot of this goes the deposition of remains here. There's
(10:29):
no rhyme to it necessarily. I'm really interesting if they're
going to do like a geographic profile in this case.
I think that this is ripe for this that try
to understand where these remains are deposited and what knowledge
would the perpetrator have about the location? Are you selecting
these because people walk their dogs, take their kids to
(10:51):
play in the park. You know there's a nice bench
where you're going to sit down. Is that the case?
Because if it is, this is how bleak this becomes
really really quick. Dave, the idea here is that not
only do you want to murder Shahda, but you want
(11:13):
to take her body and use it to terrify an
entire city. With my brother, Dave, educate me, man, what's
(11:39):
the Leonardo da Vinci diagram? Called again that I could
not remember.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The trouvian man and b I t are you v
I A n.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Listen everybody, Well, you can't say everybody. The lion's share
of the population has seen this. I knew what you
were talking about. I had to do.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
I had to hit it. And all I could think
of when I was looking at it is Joe. I'm
glad you walked away from doing what you were doing,
and I'm glad you're teaching now because people like me
that are have reported and investigated things have no idea
about the things that you talk about on a daily
basis and explain. And I know that I appreciate being
(12:23):
a part of this because it gives me a different
look at things. And I'm not saying it's bad. It's
just I had no idea how people really I'm not
as shocked at things anymore. I'm more shocked. Does that
make sense?
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, yeah, it does. And I think a lot of
it is in with Chade's case. You think that it's
kind of this progression into hell if you will, and
you and it's in degrees, okay, and you begin to
think about you sit around, it's like you think about
how much more evil can this get? And that's a
terrible thing to throw out there because the world will say, Okay,
(13:00):
I'll show you how much more evil this can every time,
every single time. And I really think from an academic standpoint,
I really need to start doing a study about these
dismemberment cases. We've talked about it several times. There seems
to be an uptick and this is happening, and I
think that it goes to a level of callousness that
perhaps that we haven't experienced in modern times certainly, and
(13:21):
ancient times perhaps, But it is the most evil thing
that you can do. And you know, just the other day,
I had the privilege of appearing on Nancy's program on
Merritt Street Media with her, and you know, Dave, my
heart was breaking because Chade's mom was on there with us.
And I can't and I don't know that any of
(13:43):
us can actually begin to fathom the depths of grief
and pain. It's hard enough, and this is real. I
know this is wrote to say that it's hard enough
to lose a child, But when you lose a child
in this manner and you don't have your child whole,
think about that just for a second, and you're getting
(14:04):
notified by the police. Her body is being discovered piecemeal,
and every single time it's almost like Shaddy's mother is
having to relive this notification over and over and over
and over again. It is absolutely heartbreaking. Please please take
(14:24):
me back to that period where they made the first
discovery because one of the things I was hearing was
they had discovered a foot with pink tonail polish on it.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
You know, when you were talking about them continuing to
find and her her mother doing the show with Nancy.
You know, she has refused all other invitations for interviews.
She only did the show with Nancy because she thought
one she loves Nancy, She'll do one national show and
if y'all want to know what I'm thinking, use that
(14:57):
interview with her. And that's what they're doing in coverage.
But the fact that it's gone on for almost three
weeks now is we're taping this and they're still finding
body parts in the last eighteen hours. The shot goes
beyond anything I can imagine in looking at when this
took place. Shaw Day would have graduated from college in
(15:19):
May with her associates degree, and she was a month
away from being twenty nineteen years old. Getting it. I
mean not not even a totally legal adult yet right now,
and goes out on this date with Maxwell Anderson. Now,
we got two ways of going through this. Let's start
with her car found burning. Okay, let me start right there,
because that's when the attention started to get drawn into
(15:39):
Somebody's gone Shawdey Robinson's car is found burning seven thirty
in the morning. It's a blue Honda Civic. A witness
sees a man with a tan backpack get out of
the car. Man throws a lit lighter inside the driver's side.
Car ignites. Man walks away towards a bus stop. The
witness lags down passing cars. Hey call nine one one. Meanwhile,
maxwellam is seen carrying this tan backpack on a bus camera,
(16:04):
because there are cameras everywhere. The next day, April second,
her right leg was found at Warnamont Park. The leg
was found by a civilian on the beach north of
the pumphouse. There is a cliff leading down to the
beach and the leg appeared to have been sawed off
at the hip. Now, according to what we were told
(16:25):
from the very beginning, the leg appeared to be long
to a black female about five feet tall. Still had
pink nail polish on the toes. Joe. The femur was
snapped off. Yeah, the bone was sawed halfway through and
all I could think of And I hate to even
say this, but for anybody who has ever had to
(16:46):
cut a tree, yep, you're cutting a tree limb, you
get halfway through it, and you're tired and you just
snap yep. Is that what they're saying happened with her femur?
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yeah? Yeah, that would approximate it. And it's look, it's
the same principle here and is you know, it sets
your teeth on edge, you know when you hear this.
Here's the thing when an individual would attempt. First off,
most people, and we've talked about this, Lord help us,
when most people, I think, endeavor to do a dismemberment,
(17:19):
they don't think about having to get through the soft tissue,
and it gets very frustrating, particularly if you're using and
at this point we don't know what type of tool
was used. I've had cases involving I think of this
young lady out in Seattle I covered a couple of
years ago. He had used a bosaw like you trim
your bushes with, and done that in the bathtub, and
(17:39):
it's very rough going. If you know, in the morgue
we have scalpels, you know, in these sorts of instruments,
very sharp scissors, and we can go through soft tissue
to get to the bone. But if the only instrument
that you have is in fact a saw, and it
can even be a power saw that is not created
in order to go through soft tissue. And so when
(18:01):
you get down to the actual shaft of a long bone.
You had mentioned the femur, which you have many times,
is that it's just like sawing wood. Forensic anthropologists study
these things where and there are some forensic anthropologists, believe
it or not, that specialize indismemberment. That's all they study.
They study tool marks on bones. It's a fascinating field.
(18:24):
It's gruesome, but it's a fascinating feel from that perspective.
They'll have these stop starts, and you can identify with
this with sawing a piece of wood. Have you ever
saw it and then gotten out of the groove. Well,
every time you do that, you put an additional mark
on the piece of wood. Same thing applies to bone.
It's hard work. It makes no mistake about it. If
you're so frustrated and you've gotten down and this is
(18:45):
just one limb we're talking about, Dave, one limb. It
has to be then if you get frustrated, you got
to snap it off and then detach the rest of
the soft tissue. You're frustrated, You've burned up all over
your energy. Now what are you going to do? Well?
Maybe the perpetrators thinking about you know, I'm going to
take these items out, these elements of the body and
(19:05):
deposit them in various places as I build back up
my energy. Then you go back and you do it again.
You do it again, you do it again, and then
every time you're moving out of the house or whatever,
you're redepositing. Maybe at some point in time he saw
it off, two appendages, and in one run he deposited
(19:27):
them in various locations. Who knows, we're going to find out,
but there will be a tremendous amount of evidence. I
think in the basement of this home. What really kind
of peaks my curiosity about this is not so much
to dismemberment, as ghastly as that is. Are they going
(19:49):
to be capable of determining her cause of death? We
know the Manner's homicide. But how degraded were the remains
of how traumatized posts more? I'm trump, I'm talking about
where the remains is there's a bullet hole, if there's
an injury to the neck, this sort of thing. Is
it going to be compromised so that you're not going
to be able to make out truly what happened? I
(20:12):
think that that that's going to be difficult. And you know,
the folks at the Milwaukee County Medical Examiner's office, they
could do this one of two ways. They can say, Okay,
we're going to take this recently arrived remain and set
it aside and before we do the totality of the examination.
(20:34):
Because they know that they've got this young woman missing,
they're finding parts, so they wait until everything comes in.
Or a question to ask is are they examining each
remain as it comes in. My suspicion is they're waiting
until they get the body in totality, you know, until
they've recovered as much as they possibly can.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I think day with the leg being found, we didn't
think of the first leg being found being the first
body part deposited. And that's not always the case. It
just happened to be the first one that was fast
one found. Yeah, but there are things that they were
talking about where it was found. Are we talking about
the alleged perpetrator throwing it in the water and it
(21:14):
floating up on the shore. Can you imagine what is
he doing? Is he trying to hide it? What's he
trying to do? Is he trying to set it so
people will find it? Trying to throw it up?
Speaker 1 (21:23):
I mean yeah to me, I mean, look allegedly again allegedly,
here we go. One of the things that's been put forward,
and I find this quite fascinating, that is that there
was a hole dug in his backyard of that home.
And this home, by the way, when you see the
images of it, is neat as a pin. The grass
(21:43):
is very well groomed, the house is very well kept,
it would appear. And you look at this and you think, okay,
you've dug a hole in the backyard, and you're thinking,
does this go to premeditation? You know, what's the purpose
of having this hole? Are you gonna you know, it's springtime,
or you think about putting in a flower bed or
putting in tomatoes? Because I don't know, maybe that's what
(22:04):
a defense attorney would say. And you know you're it's
a free country. You're welcome digs me holes in your yard.
I guess as you want to. But from an investigative standpoint,
if I'm seeing this, I'm thinking, well, maybe thought it
wasn't such a good idea to have this deceased young
lady on his premises in the wake of the fact
(22:28):
that he has been spotted in a bar and a
restaurant with her. He's the last person that was seen
with her alive. They're going to come asking questions, and
he doesn't want to have to explain why she is
buried in his backyard. Years ago, I actually had a case,
(23:08):
actually it was a colleague of mine that had a
case where a plastic grocery store bag was found and
contained within the bag was a head. And I remember
the feeling that I had in the wake of that discovery,
and all of us did. I think many of us
at the Emmy's office had that feeling, the same idea, Well,
(23:33):
when's the rest of the body going to show up?
And in that case, all we were left with was ahead.
Nothing else ever showed up. And that does happen. It
does happen. So you take that idea, and I'm thinking
about the investigative staff at the Emmy's office, and of
course the police that are working this case. And I'm thinking, Dave,
(23:54):
well are they Are they sitting on pins and needles?
Can you imagine being a homicide detective assigned to this?
And You're thinking, Okay, let's take an inventory of what
we have at this point? Where else can we look?
Is the body ever going to be reconstituted to some level?
Because I got to tell you, just listening to Shade's
mother the other day, she ain't gonna have burial until
(24:16):
she has her baby back. And that's just that's the
reality of it. What do we have up to this point?
And when were these items discovered?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Two things that got me, Joe. One was the fire man.
We'll come to that. But my first thought when I
heard the car was on fire, I thought he did
it to get rid of evidence. The alleged perpetrator did
it to get rid of evidence. But if you've listened
to Joseph Scott Morgan long and if you know that
the perpetrator, by lighting it on fire, didn't destroy evidence.
He actually probably locked some evidence in we'll get into that.
(24:49):
April first, Shade Robinson has disappeared. Had a date that
evening April second, seven thirty am. Her car is on fire.
It's found burning in an alley five point thirty That afternoon,
her car is at seven thirty am on fire. She's
missing five point thirty to the afternoon. The human leg
with the pink toenails is found in Warnamont Park. Two
days later, Maxwell Anderson is brought in for questioning because
(25:12):
they know that he was last on with her. The
next day, April fifth, three days after the first body
part was found, another body part found, this time near
thirtieth in Lisbon. The next day, human remains located near
thirty first Angalina. April seventh, more human remains located near
thirty first in Walnut. The next day, April eighth. Officers
(25:33):
are still combing the park for evidence and collected more items.
But when police find it, we don't know exactly what
they found. The only time we know what is actually
found is when a civilian finds it and they tell
us before the police do.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
I'm sitting back and I'm thinking, my lord, I mean,
what else what else could their Torso?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, arm how about that that was found Joe just
the other day. Yeah, we are three weeks now away
from this almost and her or so an arm of
shade Robinson washed up on Milwaukee Beach.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
So that begs the question, doesn't it is he? Why
would an individual who is randomly doing these these deposits,
why would he choose some of them to be Because
you know, if we go back to the leg that's
on the beach, was this something that he had walked
out into the water or did he And if you've
never seen the Great League Lakes, they they do have.
(26:29):
Look it's not like going to Hawaii, but there is
kind of a surf that's there. You know, the current
will push things into the beach. You can see breakers,
you know, on the shore, particularly if the weather stormy,
it looks like you're at the ocean. Did he not
walk the remains out there? Or did he take the
remains and put them into a tributary and have them
(26:50):
washed down the tributary and they wind up flowing back
into the shore. I think that that's certainly something you know,
to be considered. Here are these placements random? One of
the things that keeps going through my head. Dave about
this case, is that is this the first time this
(27:13):
individual has done this? Because you're talking about brother, You're
talking about going from zero to a thousand, All right,
this is not this is not like you know, you
kind of slipped into these waters and you're doing things
that you shouldn't be doing. Is you begin to think
has he attacked other people? Has he been this? Is
(27:35):
there this level of violence? Has he used sharp instruments
on anybody even in a fight? Has he threatened to
carve somebody up? Here's another big one. Are there any
other women in Milwaukee that fit the description of shah Day?
(27:57):
They are missing? And I think that that that's certainly
something to consider where this would have to have been done.
You know, when you talk about dismemberment, you have to
have privacy. There's no way you're going to roll out
into the backyard and start doing this. You have to
have privacy. And from what I'm what I am hearing,
there's been a considerable amount of blood deposition in his
(28:22):
basement apartment essentially, or basement living.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Space actually in the hallway leading down on the stairway.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, and so was he dragging body parts up there?
And you know, and what else is in there. Here's
the other thing. When they sweep this area, when law
enforcement and I can assume that they have done this,
when they bring in that team of forensic scientists, the
random sampling in that environment, you expect to find his DNA.
(28:50):
You're going to find probably I think his parents actually
own the home and they've relocated to Florida. They're going
to find their DNA. Any of his buddies, you might
find theirs. But is there any unidentified DNA that's down there?
Is there any DNA that they could perhaps profile where
they could do phenotyping or get an idea as to
(29:13):
who this individual may have been, who it belongs to,
Because look, that question has to be asked, and I
think that the people in Milwaukee would want an answer
to that, because if they've got young women that are missing,
your boy right here, he moves up to the top
of the list for me. I want to look through
that home, any kind of vehicle he has, anything that
(29:35):
I want to search it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Joe, Okay, Just to give you an idea. His dad's
very wealthy, a rich businessman. Maxwell Anderson was a high
school football star. After he didn't really amount to a
whole lot. He's worked for his daut a couple of
times didn't really work out. He's ended up as a
bartender pretty much working as a bartender and what have you.
In and around Milwaukee. He did run a foul of
(29:58):
the law with the family members. It apparently has some
He's acted out a couple of times where police had
to be called. I'll give it that, but nothing like
this right now. Don't know if we have any other
women who have come forward to talk to police. We
don't know that yet, mainly because they have Maxwell Anderson
in jail. They've charged him with shaw Dave Robinson's murder
and now they're putting the case together and they'll reach
(30:19):
out and if any women have come forward with other stories,
they're probably looking, you know, that's what yeah, buddy.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Let me tell you. They're going through his phone. They're
going through social media, any kind of dating apps that
he has there. They're going to be looking and say, look,
have you had contact with him? How did he behave
And they'll be bringing each and every one of these
points of contact along, not to mention all of his coworkers,
you know, the people that were in the bar. Did
(30:46):
he ever get spicy with any of the patrons that
came in there, you know, because fascinating. Yeah, go ahead,
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
The night they were out, the night that he was out,
it was like they went he went overboard to make
it not just a routine first date, but a good state.
Because halfway through the night they took a picture and
sent it out. They're sending out Instagram photos on their date.
I mean this guy was he planned this out because
look at what happens next. Follow this timeline, Joe, It's
(31:13):
very tight. Robinson and Anderson they go out to eat
at a bar heead, a restaurant he used to work at.
Then they sit at the bar and eat their food.
Everybody sees them being pleasant. They leave that restaurant. They
go to Duke's on Water. A pole camera actually picks
them up and Robinson's Honda Civic is parked at six
thirty three. Six thirty four, Robinson and Anderson get out
(31:35):
of the car. Nine oh four, Robinson and Anderson return
to the car. Robinson and Anderson are seen at Anderson's
home by a neighbor's camera at nine twenty four pm.
There are two figures seen entering Anderson's backyard. This is
one made you think about the hole that you said
he dug. At nine to twenty six, a living room
light is turned on inside the home. At eleven twenty
(31:59):
five eleven twenty five, a figure coming in and out
of the home into the backyard on and off until
twelve forty five am. At twelve forty seven am, Robinson's
car departs Anderson's house. That would mean Shaw Deve Robinson's
(32:20):
Honda Civic leaves Maxwell Anderson's home at twelve forty seven am.
We know they arrived and she was fine, alive, walk well,
assuming it's her. Two figures entering the backyard at nine
twenty four pm at eleven twenty five, one person is
seen going in and out of the house for the
next hour, and so you know Delly leaves, So she's
(32:42):
dead by eleven twenty five, two hours dead.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
You got up. Yeah, And if he had the tools
at his disposal at that point, Tom and he had
a location where he could do this effectively and efficiently
as mechanical as that sounds. Did he use the car
in order to transport these remains and deposit them? Was
this a one time deposition thing where he's he's just
(33:07):
making the rounds to all these various locations, and that
does in fact bring us to the car because my
understanding is that they have also found gasoline containers that
he had at home. And here's the thing, if you
what people don't understand about using accelerants. I think that
it's fascinating. First off, that he strikes a lighter and
(33:29):
this is witnessed. He strikes a lighter outside of her
car and walks away, and then the next thing you know,
the car is engulfed. And you know, I'm always picking
on Hollywood, I know, on the show, but cars just
don't explode, all right, like that. Now you can have problem,
you can have that it does happen. But that's the
(33:51):
exception as opposed to the norm, all right, particularly from
within the cockpit of the car itself, within where the
driver's seat is sits and all of this sort of thing.
So there has to be an accelerant at work. What's
going to happen with all of the material in that
car that they can save? And this is kind of fascinating.
(34:12):
When the arson investigators work that car, they're going to
take samples from within that car and they're going to
put them into this they're going to put it into
a paint can, okay, and what will happen is those
items settle, Like if it's a cloth off of the seat,
for instance.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Well, the paint can have it. They're gonna put it
in a paint can. What's in the pain can, Well,
I say paint can. It's a can that looks like
a paint can. They're all silver and they're used for
collecting arson evidence. And so what happens is as gravity
takes hold and that that item settles to the bottom
of the can, any fumes that are contained on that
(34:52):
item rise within that can, and they're going to take
a big plunger and they're going to stick it in
there and.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
They're going to draw off that gas. And then they're
going to walk over to a GC mass spec which
is a gas chromatograph that's attached to a mass spect machine,
and they're going to begin to take that sample and
run it through the machine and it gives you a
chemical signature. All right. I'm not going to go into
(35:21):
all the details, but with the GC you begin to
kind of formulate what is present, okay, within the sample.
You can kind of get a generalized idea when it's
drawn over to the mass spec We're talking about spectrometry,
and so every element that you have out there bends
(35:42):
light in a certain way, and so when you're talking
about something like gas or ethanol, it's going to refract
I guess is the best way to put it. It'll
bend the light and it gives you a specific readout
on this thing. All gas, like you draw up at
(36:04):
the gas station, is pretty much the same. What separates
it though, is the detergents that the individual companies put
in there. So if we look at something like VP
or Texaco or Gulf or Shell Chevron, it doesn't matter
they all, you know, we see these things, you know
with I don't know, and they're not sponsoring the show.
(36:25):
But whoever it is, it says, you know, our gas
has techron in it. Well, techron is some kind of
substance they have in there that is supposed to reduce gunk. Okay, Well,
it has a very specific signature that's different than the gasoline.
And so if this suspect has taken those gas cans
(36:45):
and gone to a local filling station, well that's an
old term people don't use any more, gone to a
local filling station and filled up these cans with it.
There's going to be a very specific chemical signature goes
back to that gas if that's what he used as
the accelerant. And so that's what I mean, Dave. You
(37:06):
know when I talk about things like, yeah, you're trying
to destroy evidence, and maybe there was blood evidence in
that car, because you know, maybe if he's using it
to convey this precious girl's remains all over the place,
maybe he got rid of the blood evidence, but he's
not going to get rid of that accelerant that was
in there, and that's going to be his undoing. I
(37:27):
think whoever I thought it says I heard fire.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
That was my first thought was jo Just Scott said
that he just burned himself by setting that fire. That's
what I heard you say, you know, because I've heard
you talk about what a fire does look.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
You and I have both been around We grew up
in sixties, right, We've both been around cigarettes our entire lives.
One way or another, we smoked or we didn't smoke.
Certainly our parents smoked. I can't remember. I can't count
how many times I've been burned by a cigarette, not
on purpose, but you know, parents used to smoke around
us all the time, and you know they'd burn you,
you know, when they're lighting up or whatever. But have
(38:02):
you ever seen somebody drop a cigarette onto like the
surface of a seat and a car well that it
smolders it catch it if it's fabric or I guess
it could be pleather or whatever it is in your car,
it's going to burn a hole in it. But guess
what it's not going to do. It's not going to
explode and envelop the car. Okay, that just doesn't happen.
(38:23):
And you have to have an initiate with him striking
that lighter. What's really fascinating about this, Dave, is that
we've actually got a witness that saw this person strike
this lighter. And I've got visions of zippos coming into
my mind right now, and you know, a lighter that
(38:44):
would stay burning and take it and toss it like
some movie into the cockpit of the car and suddenly
the thing's enveloped in flame. Now you might think that
you're going to get rid of everything, but I can
tell you science in the end is gonna get you.
And you can say that not only about the fire.
(39:07):
You can say that about the blood that was left
behind at his scene. You can say that about the
ct TV, but you know what else you can say
it about out there. Her remains are pointing a finger
(39:29):
back at this perpetrator, and her remains, in the end
will tell the tale of Shade's death. I'm Joseph Scott
Morgan and this is body Bags.
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.