April 1, 2025 • 56 mins
Kei'Mani Latigue, 13, lives with her grandmother, Dorothy Latigue - just the two of them.
Dorothy works at night and when she comes home the next morning, the door is unlocked, the house is a mess, the gas on the stove is on, and KeiMani is missing. KeiMani's father appears on local TV begging for anyone to please call police to help find his daughter.
Days later, the body of the 13-year-old is found with her hands chopped off and her head nearly severed. And she has been raped.
Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack take a close look at the family dynamic as Joe explains how forensics will help investigators determine what happened inside the home as well as where the child's body was found and what led police to arrest Darnell Jones, KeiMani's 33-year-old father.
Transcribe Highlights
00:00.62 Introduction
01:20.85 Graffiti says "her life mattered"
03:01.55 13-year-old KeiMani Latigue, missing
07:07.69 Grandmother comes home from work, KeiMani mising
10:18.70 Examine couch for seminal fluid
14:59.66 Talk about force entry and struggle
19:17.46 Dad claims he left his daughter in the home
24:56.30 Father charged with kidnapping
30:25.80 Wounds are incised wounds
35:06.04 Why was body dismembered?
40:07.16 KeiMani was raped
45:24.68 Determining how long a body has been at location
50:17.96 Police charge father with kidnap, rape, murder
57:14.69 Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Body dams. But Joseph scotten More, I've seen a lot
of inner city poverty over the course of my years
working as a death investigator. It's part and parcel of
what you do, and you have to understand that it's
many people's reality. People say that they know what it's
(00:26):
like to be poor, but there's being poor and then
there's impoverished, kind of a hopelessness set to in. As
I'm speaking to you right now, I'm looking at a photograph.
It's a photograph of a home, an abandoned home in
(00:50):
a rough neighborhood in Toledo, Ohio, and there is scribbling
on the wall, graffiti, if you will, and around the
home there are also balloons that have been placed there
to form a small memorial for a young lady that
(01:11):
is no longer with us. And just let me tell
you what the graffiti says. It says, you let them
silence her c SB, where's your accountability her life matter?
(01:35):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave.
There's just some of these cases that really tug at
our heartstrings, and this is one of them. There are
varying degrees of horror with this case. It's you know
the old adage about going down the rabbit hole, It's
(01:57):
like the deeper you go down the rabbit hole, it's
a descend into hades almost with what happened to this
young girl. And I'm talking about a young lady. She's
thirteen years old, she's a child. Her name was Kamanie Letigue,
and she's from the Toledo, Ohio area. And to say
(02:22):
that she had had had it rough growing up is
certainly an understatement. We cover cases like this regularly, but
I think that it's very important that every time one
of these cases comes up, we need to talk about
it because this is the real stuff that's out there.
This is what not just adults. This is what children
(02:42):
are going through right now. And boy did she She
wound up pain a bill that she did not owe
to anybody, and it is pure hell.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Kimani Lettigue you mentioned, is thirteen years old and is missing.
That's when her story begins. In terms of the media,
and whenever you have a child missing, the first thing
you do is you nowadays you look at the home,
who was in the home, who lived there, who did
she live with? Now and Kamanie Leatigue, her life situation.
(03:14):
She lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and Dorothy was her
Kamani's primary caregiver. And yet her mother, Kamanie's mother and
father biological father were both involved in her life. But
to what degree, We're not entirely sure, because you never
know who to believe in any circumstances. But Kamanie Letigue
(03:37):
at thirteen lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and her grandmother
worked overnight. Her grandmother went to work ten o'clock at night,
got home at six in the morning. And that's kind
of We've got a couple of different stories like this, okay,
that where a girl goes missing or a young person
goes missing. And I'm going to be honest with you,
(03:57):
at thirteen, a child is a child and not old
enough to be left atlone overnight. You don't leave a
child alone overnight until they're old enough to drive. And
that's just and by the way, it's just a Dave macrule.
And I agree with you. I agree, And I just
have a real problem with this. I know others speel differently,
but I'm just saying that's how I think. But in
(04:19):
her case, and I know I always hear whenever I
say something like that, you don't understand the circumstances. Yeah,
I do. I do understand the circumstances, and I will
tell you can make good choices whether you're rich or poor,
it doesn't matter. Good choices don't have a price tag.
If you're going to be held accountable and responsible for
(04:41):
a child, then and you've accepted that responsibility, you owe
it to the child to make sure that you're taking
care of them. And there are no excuses that I'll
buy just just a personal thing.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But I agree with you and personal. You know, the
thing about it is these choices. There's you know, it
doesn't matter if you're Richard poy you you know you
you plugged in economics to this and I'm thinking, well,
that investment in making good choices you reap dividends in
(05:14):
the end. And this is where, in my opinion, everyone
failed as child all up and down the line. You know,
from what I have gathered given her background, there been
there were multiple reports of potential child abuse involving Kamani.
(05:38):
She allegedly had marks on her body that were viewed UH.
There were teachers that had alerted the workers at child
Welfare Services and by the way, that comment about CBS
that that was scribbled on the wall outside of this home,
(06:01):
which we'll talk about in a bit. That's that's actually
the acronym for the local Child Welfare Services.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
But look, Joe, from the very beginning, the story begins
with her going missing, and whatever happens after that is
what This is one of the stories where it's we're
covering it because it needs to be covered. People need
to know this happens. But this is a new low.
(06:33):
Every time I think we have mined the bottom of
the pit, we end up with another shovelful. And here
it is Kamanie Letty goes missing and her grandmother, Dorothy
comes home from work and she is just the two
of them that live in the house. They do have
a dog, but just Kamani thirteen Dorothy grandma Kimmani's grandmother
(06:54):
sees her the night of March sixteenth when she's leaving
to go to work that night. When her grandmother comes
home from work that morning of March seventeenth, Kimani is gone.
So her grandmother immediately starts calling around and notifies police
because when she comes home the door is unlocked. That's
(07:15):
not a normal thing. The house was in disarray, not
a normal thing. The stove was on and she could
smell gas, not something that would normally happen. Kimanie's keys
and glasses were still at the house. But the girl
can't see without her glasses, Joe, So Dorothy knows this
(07:36):
is something really bad. Dorothy even had this comment about
the gas being left on. She said, other than her
and I, it's just two dogs in the house. So
who cut it on talking about the gas? So that
was kind of suspicious. Her glasses in her underclothes were
by the couch in the front. Her pajamas were on
the dining room floor. Now, pay attention to what she's
(07:57):
saying there. Her glasses in her underclothes were by the
couch in the front, her pajamas were on the dining
room floor. Yeah, what does that tell you about what
she was wearing, Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, obviously prepped for bed. If we're talking about pj's.
The fact that you've got a young a young teen
like this is highly unusual. You know, you can't envision them,
you know, bouncing about the house nude. Not that you
(08:34):
would want to, but the fact that she's apparently naked
and wandering about the house is disturbing, she's already gotten
ready for bed. I would think that, you know, as
an investigator, you would ask the question, well, did she
Is it normal in your household for this thirteen year
(08:54):
old girl to disrobe in the living room where perhaps
they could be seen by a pass or by anybody,
could you know, perhaps walk in. Is that something that
is normal? Then you would want to look and as
troubling as this might be, you would look at the
clothing to see, well, maybe she had an accident, maybe
(09:16):
you know, she wet herself, maybe she had, you know,
some type of intestinal problem, or maybe she's injured in
some way. Is there any any remnant of blood on
the clothing, you know, the underwear, the pjs, because you're
(09:37):
talking about two separate locations. You're talking about the pj's
being in the adjacent area, and then you're talking about
the underwear near the sofa, and with the sofa, one
of the things you're thinking about if this child is
(09:57):
absent her underwear, are we thinking about a sex attack
here at this point in time where the perpetrator, assuming
that this is a male, had made her disrobe or
had ripped her clothing off and then assaulted her there
on the sofa in the living room. There are a
(10:18):
lot of people that sleep on their sofas, Okay, there
are a lot of people that do a lot of
other things on their sofas as well. But you know,
this scene in and of itself would have been perfect
to go in and examine for trace evidence on that sofa.
Try to understand first off, if there's any biological substances,
(10:39):
and one of the things I'm thinking about are two
of the things I'm thinking about are obviously blood and
any kind of seminal deposition. We've got two females living
in this home, and according to the grandmother, they are
seeing the occupants of this home. You would not expect
to find say, remnant of smen, you know, on the sofa.
(11:02):
If it is, I've got a lot of If it
is there, I've got a lot of questions. Was the
grandmother involved with anybody? We wouldn't think that a thirteen
year old would be involved. I'd want to know again
examining the underwear, was there any kind of deposition within
the underwear relative to this as well? So this would
(11:24):
have to be handled very very carefully. Also within the house,
I know that you had mentioned, Dave that the door
was open, But we don't really know if there was
a sign of a forced entry here, do we no?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And that's here's the interesting well, no, not just the
interesting part. There's a lot here, a lot to unpack,
as you say, or as Nancy says, the uh. And
by the way, the reason we mentioned Nancy, it's Nancy Grace.
That's who we're talking about. That's how Joe and I
got to know one another by being on her show,
and I work on her show on a daily basis
as they do body bags. I'm very proud of the
(12:00):
work we do because I think we're making a difference
at how people consider watching after children in particular, which
is why every time we do a story about a child,
a thirteen year old that goes missing, I feel like
I'm more aware of the children in my neighborhood. I'm
more aware of their schedules. Now. I am more than
I was a few years ago when my children were
(12:20):
of that age, because now I know what's normal in
my neighborhood, what takes you know, and in this case,
what we do know. We know that the door was
it was unlocked. That is not a normal occurrence. They
kept that door locked, so that's a start. Now we
don't know if there was forced entry, but we do
know a few other things. We know that the home
was in disarray. This is also something that Dorothy said
(12:44):
that was not common. And you can think about this.
Dorothy is a you know, as a grandmother teaching her
thirteen year old granddaughter how to act, how to behave,
how to keep your house in order kind of thing.
I can see that. You know that if it was
in disarray, this would be an unexpected occurrence. And the
gas being turned on the stove, there was a reason
for that, and we don't know that reason. But what
(13:07):
we do know is that when she goes missing, there's
no sign of Kimani anywhere, and the media is there
to cover it. And so Kimani's father, her biological father,
is there to talk about her, and he goes on
TV Joe and he is begging for somebody to share information.
His name is Darnell Jones. He also goes by Darnell Ogletree.
(13:31):
Darnell is thirty three years old and he is on
local television in Toledo saying, please help find my daughter.
But what we find out Joe, is that on that
night of March sixteenth into March seventeenth, when Kimani was
home on March sixteenth, her grandmother sar when she left
for work. Well, Darnell Jones says he got a call
(13:53):
from Kimani and she said she was scared being left
home alone. Would he come over? And so now we
know that Darnell Jones went to that house and took
a friend and he says they stayed there until about
twelve thirty. That's from her biological father, Darnell Jones.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Let me, let's unpack it a little bit here. We
are using that term again. One of the things that
stands out to me relative to this door that we
had mentioned, if it is not forced open. Many times
when you see a home where maybe there's been to
(14:41):
call it a home invasion is not necessarily accurate. But
when you have a door that has not been knocked
off the hinges or that the you know that it's
been kicked in adjacent to the door knob, you're thinking, well,
somebody had to open it from the inside or was
it ever locked at all? To gain fourth century? Well,
(15:04):
what do we think about that? If you and I,
let's just say our kids show up at the house. Okay,
our door is locked. You know. I can look out
my front window. I see when Noah arrives at our house,
and eagerly I hop up and go and lock the
door and open it for him, you know, because I'm
happy to see him, right And I don't there's no
(15:25):
threat there. Okay, I'm not talking to him through the door.
Can you please verify for me your id So one
of the first things that that's why we always talk
about fourth century and struggle. Now, I don't know that
we can classify this, and I would beg you to
please use that the term that the grandmother used one
(15:48):
more time. What did you say about the interior of
the house, that it was what it was?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
In disarray? Yeah, I meaning it was a mess.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, it's a mess. And here's a term that I
don't know if you've heard in a while. The old
guys used to use it. That trained me. They'd love
to use the term rifling, and I'm not talking about ballistics.
They would use the term like rifled through objects or
personal belongings, or generally it applies to like paperwork, and
(16:17):
you know, people are rifling through things. You know when
you talk about in disarray, is it is it pose
like a purposed disarray where maybe you're using the items
in the house to threaten somebody with, maybe you're throwing things,
or is it can you frame it like drawers being
(16:40):
open and things tossed out because you're looking for valuables.
You know, it's a completely different way of looking at it.
You can get this. I love the term menacing and
how easy would it be think about it when you
are thirteen? How easy would it be for adult to
(17:02):
have menaced you. Being a death investigator, I'm giving pause
(17:24):
sometimes to think about where my physical body will wind up.
And I'm not necessarily talking about at a funeral home
or in a graveyard. You have these moments in time
where you think, well, might I die in my bed?
(17:44):
Might I be behind the wheel? Might not be at
my desk and suddenly struck by a heart attack or
a stroke. I can tell you what's not on my
bingo card. It's not a burned out house, abandoned, burned
(18:06):
out house with windows boarded up, the vinyl siding on
it curled because of the intense heat that ravaged the place.
That's not what I'm thinking and I can tell you this.
When Camani was born thirteen years ago, nobody was thinking
(18:29):
about that. I can guarantee you. But Dave got to
tell you, brother, that's where this angel wound up.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You know, when her dad went on TV and said
I was here, she called she was worried that some
man was trying to break in, or somebody was trying
to break in. You know as well as I do.
When the police heard that ding ding ding radars went up.
He's now put himself in that house during the time
(18:58):
we know she was taken, because we know Grandma was
there at ten on the night of the sixteenth. When
she came home early morning of the seventeenth, Kamani was gone.
And now we have dad on local TV saying, yeah,
I was there till about twelve thirty with a cousin
of mine. We stayed there. Now, as a father, well yeah,
(19:23):
I can't even identify with any situation with this, But
as a man, would you ever leave a thirteen year
old child afraid of being left alone? Would could you
possibly leave at twelve thirty at night with your thirteen
year old daughter saying she's scared? Hey, I don't know
A real man would.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
There was no way under the sun that I would
do that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So do you think the police bought that?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, of course they didn't, and it didn't. It just
doesn't hold water, you know. If it's me and I
can only speak to me, all right, right, If I've
got a thirteen year old daughter, who is you know,
sitting there shaking and she's afraid that a man, a
man dave implying, a grown man exactly threatening her or
(20:11):
after her, do you think I'm going to pedal myself
out of that driveway and leave and not take her
with me, or at least, hey, baby, you go get
in your bed. I'm going to sit here on the
sofa and if you need anything, you just come back
in here. But I'm going to stay here until your
grandma gets back.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
What else does he have to do? At twelve thirty,
we've already established haying at work. We do know that
per his girlfriend that he had muddy work boots. But
do you know what she says? She says, this is
a statement that she gave later, kind of bearing the
lead here, but she's she's like it worked, and I
(20:53):
don't know how long, you know, So it's not like
his dance card is full for the next morning. All right,
So you're telling me the universal you not you, Dave Mac.
You're telling me that your boy just rolls out of
there with a frightened thirteen year old daughter. And grandma
(21:17):
is still what if she's working, If she's working mids,
she's going in at ten, Yeah, until she ain't getting
off until six or seven, and then she's got to
commute back home. That's what you're trying to tell me, dude.
I'm not buying it. I am just not buying it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And the thing is is that you know immediately when
when Grandma gets home on the seventeenth, they immediately begin
looking for Kimani. They're looking all over the neighborhood because again,
you're going to you're not going to jump to every
conclusion in the world. You're going to try to make
sense of this somehow. And they spent the entire day
of the seventeenth going door to door, friends, neighbors, community members,
(21:56):
did a search. They did a complete search of the
area before actually reporting missing, and she was technically legally
reported missing on the eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Hey time, was the dad involved in the search for her?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, yeah, he was. That's why he was on TV
right away. Please, I was there. You know she was
afraid of See he was already staging it. When he's
on TV, he's there saying I was with her till
twelve thirty because she was afraid somebody was trying to
break in. So immediately we're not bearing the lead by
telling you that he's the guy we're looking at. But
here's what actually happened, Joe. They found her body. They
(22:29):
found her body in a horrible place, and you're going
to have to describe what condition she was in when
they found her, because I've looked at it and I'm
trying to figure out how does one make sense of
what happened to this missing thirteen year old Because between
(22:49):
the time that we know she's missing at the time
we find it, there's no you know, you're not getting
a letter in the mail, you know, with a ransom
saying I need twenty thousand dollars and you'll see her.
We're not getting any of that. We're not getting picked
is holding herround. I mean, she's missing until she's found,
and when she has found, she's found dead. Now, how
did they find her? What condition was her body in?
(23:13):
It boggles the mind. And what we're just going to
have to describe really had.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And let me give everybody a warning here because we're
going to talk about and I know that sounds weird
here on body bags, but I've got to tell you
there's a term that judges use many times, and it's
called this so shocks the conscience of the court. And
this shocked me. You know when I heard about the
(23:37):
nature of this case. I can't think of one right now,
even though we've had a lot of over the top
cases with a lot of forensics that you know, would
make your blood chill. But you know that's that's one
of the ways we make it through it as investigators,
(23:59):
is that, uh, at least in my sense, is that
I try to look at things scientifically. Dave, It's hard
for me not to look at this as a dad,
it really is. It's uh, it's it makes me sick
to my back teeth.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
And and I do want to add one quick thought. Yeah,
before they found her body, yes, the police had already
identified that her biological father, Darnell Jones Jarnell Ogletree, that
they wanted him for kidnapping. They had established that based
on what he had said, based on the what and
(24:36):
what they had pulled together, and so they were going
to they were trying to find him. Then he'd already
been on local TV saying, help me find my daughter.
And now he's our suspect. And they charged him with
abducting her before they found the body.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, they charged him, but with kidnapping. They didn't have him.
And but what we do have is Kimanie and day
when when she is found. As as aforementioned, Uh, this
it's a two story give you kind of the rundown.
(25:11):
It's a two story dwelling in in this particular neighborhood.
It's gray in color. Uh, and it's got vinyl siding.
And if you've never been to a fire scene, when
vinyl siding is involved, what happens is is that it
(25:33):
gets so hot, uh, the exterior heat, you know, the
heat that's been given off from inside. It's like laying
plastic on a you know, on like an oven surface.
It curls and that's that's what the vinyl siding does
in this particular case. So it kind of curls up
and you see this, uh, just kind of a further
(25:54):
paint this picture. You see this it's smoke with the
remnant of smoke and charring that has that you see
at the top of these windows downstairs. Now these windows
have been boarded up. They've been boarded up because his
house is probably an iesore in the community. It's gone
(26:18):
through a fire, the fire was knocked out. You see
this kind of scoring and staining of smoke at the
top of the window. And what's going on is it
looks like this fire whenever it did happen, started on
the bottom floor, because the top doesn't necessarily look as
bad as the bottom. And so as fire licks out
(26:38):
of a house, it's trying to get to the highest
point so they can grab oxygen and consume it. All right,
it's eating oxygen. And so many times when you go
out the house fires, you'll see this. I can only
imagine that when they made their way into this house
and they got up on that second floor landing and
(27:02):
they began to look around, I can almost guarantee you
there was a foloader, there was a fouloader. And that's
really hard to separate out because if you've ever been
around a fire like a bonfire, or maybe you've had
the unfortunate circumstances of having a house fire, that smell
(27:23):
is rather pervasive. But the one thing that will trump
that smell is decomposing bodies. You can get an idea
and then when it's commingled and blended. I don't know
how much they were able to actually appreciate at the scene,
but when they found her little broken body, they discovered
(27:48):
that she had almost been completely decapitated because she had
multiple insized ones. I can go into that, but the
one thing are the two things that we're missing are
(28:10):
those elements of our anatomy that even when we're babies,
we're exploring the world around us with You see, in
the case of Kimani, someone had taken the time to
not almost cut her head off, but they completely cut
(28:31):
both of her hands off. The when they did their
exam on Kimani, they determined that her cause of death, Dave,
(28:57):
was going to be these injuries to her neck. Now,
these are sharp force injuries, but they're not they're not
stab ones. Okay, these are incized ones.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And you're going to have to explain the difference, Joe, Yeah,
featuring in my head.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, the knife. If you just think of a knife,
knives are inserted, that's a stab one. If a knife
or sharp object, sharp instrument, sharp weapon, it's called sharp
force injuries. If that blade is drug across a surface,
that's an incised one. Okay, I'll give it to you
(29:34):
in the most simple terms. If you've ever you know,
like myself, the idiot at large here, was ever cutting up.
I've done it many times on on onions because I
get careless with them. I want to put as much
distance between myself as possible in them as you're cutting them.
(29:54):
I've cut my fingers multiple times. I've cut myself in
the morgue dave through my glove and this happens a lot,
generally with a scalpel blade, but they're always I've never
stabbed myself. I've always cut myself. So these are in
sized wounds. That means that the surface, the leading edge
of that surface has been drug or pressed into the
(30:17):
underlying tissue, and so it creates these very very neat
what we refer to as neat margins. Because you're talking
about a milled edged weapon that it's not going to
be jagged, and a little primer here so that folks
will understand. Many times we will get out onto the scenes,
and we will see individuals that have been beaten to
(30:39):
death and they have lacerations. People in the emergency room
abbreviate that and they call them lax lac It's a laceration.
Make no mistake. A laceration is not a cut. Laceration
in the purest sense of the definition, comes about as
a result of blunt forced and so you will get
(31:01):
these weird looking, jagged injuries where the skin literally rips. Okay,
you'll get injuries where, uh you know, I even think
about like contact press contact gunshot wounds to the head
where the skin expands, and you'll get that stellate presentation
(31:23):
which looks like a star. That's actually a laceration because
the gas is expanding the skin. That's not what Kamani had.
Kimani actually had insized and apparently multiple insized ones. And
they're not just it diminished, it diminishes the injuries that
she's sustained to her neck. By saying that her head
(31:48):
was almost cut off or she was almost decapitated, dave
to go through what we refer to as full thickness.
If you're talking about you have superficial injuries that happened
with knives and knives in particular where you're talking about
full thickness. Most of the time doctor's forensic pathologists when
(32:08):
they use that term, that means that it will go
through the full thickness of the skin, epidermis, the dermas,
down through the subkey fat into the muscle. So that's
like a full thickness injury. If they're saying that she
was almost decapitated, that means that he had gotten down
to the bony structures with the sharp instrument that he
(32:28):
had used. And the first thing I'm thinking about is
the cervical spinal column. That he couldn't go through it
because probably all he had at his disposal was a knife.
Now I don't know that for certain. There could have
been other things, but one of the shocking things, one
(32:51):
just one of the shocking things relative to Camani's case,
is that both of her hands had been cut off. Now,
I've had cases like this, and I was actually in
a great presentation one time many years ago. This is
you know, you file this under how stupid are criminals?
A guy's body was actually found in a creek and
(33:14):
he had been both decapitated. They never found his head
and both of his hands had been cut off. The
idea that investigators came up with, well, they did that
in order to either delay or prevent the guy's identification,
you know, because you don't have teeth at that point
and you don't have hands to do prints with. The
(33:36):
idiot that killed him and did this to him left
the guy's wallet in his back pocket. Even though the
case that was being presented, I'm listening to this, you know,
my mouth is wide open. I'm listening to this. Even
though you didn't have the head and you didn't have
the hands, that were still able to get him identified.
And I'm thinking, well, in Camani's case, why would this
(33:59):
say it not satanist? Satanist and I'm using that term
because there's a sexual component here. Why would this individual
cut the hands off? Are you doing that in order
(34:22):
to inhibit or impede rather, I guess the authority's ability
to get her identified through fingerprints? Well, does she have
fingerprints on file? Do you know something about that? I mean,
she has been a child that has gone through the system.
Did Local Family Children's Services? Did they ever print her
(34:46):
for anything? Are you thinking that? Do you think that
you're going to thwart this investigation? By merely removing this
thirteen year old's hands. Is that where we're at with this,
because I don't understand the rationale behind it. Were you're
going to try to piecemeal out the body and you
(35:08):
were merely going to this abandoned house. And here's another thing,
this house, Dave and the doors, well maybe not necessarily
the doors, they've been boarded up as a result of
this previous fire. You can see kind of that particle board,
cheap particle board that you used to cover windows after fires,
and they dropped screws in there, you know, to cover
(35:29):
the windows to prevent anybody from because it's dangerous. I mean,
burned out houses are one of the most dangerous environments
you could be in. Well, you have to think whoever
the perpetrator is had a familiarity with the area. They
would have gone directly to that house. Maybe they had
seen it in the daytime passing by. Did any you know,
(35:53):
did anybody see somebody carrying this young girl's body into
the house? And then how did you gain access to
the house. And it's not just like this is done
on the first floor. Once they made entry into the house,
they went to the second, second floor to do this.
(36:14):
So had they been hanging out in here before, did
they know that the staircase was safe. It's one thing
if you're going to try to walk yourself up a
staircase in the dark in a burned out house, But
now you're going to take the body of a thirteen
year old and walk up the staircase with that body
(36:35):
and then do whatever it is you're going to do
with that body upstairs. I don't know. There's a lot
of questions here from a forensics perspective, Dave that right now,
we don't have the answers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
To We don't know. And that's what I was going
to ask you. Okay, they would obviously know. They being
the investigators, when they're doing the autopsy, they're going to
be able to determine that her hands were cut off
after she was dead.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
They're going to yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, and so
you're going to be looking for hemorrhage in there. If
there's no hemorrhage, there's you know, then that's an indicative
of a post mortem event.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
This is something they haven't described whether or not this
is the location. Was she killed at this location or
was she killed somewhere else? And brought there.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And there's a lot to consider here as well.
I find it very interesting. Can we go back just
a second to her home. Yeah, and I'm thinking about
the gas being on her.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I am too, That's exactly I'm in the same boat,
because my first thought was, Okay, wait a minute, we
got a burned out house here where her body is
found on the side or and I believe that whoever
kidnapped her, whoever took Kamani outside of her grandmother's home,
set that gas on to blow the place up to
ruin any other evidence he left behind. And that's my job.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Here's another thing I'm wondering. I'm wondering if there were
if the individual had thought about that, had they lit
candles in the house in another area, hoping that hoping,
just hoping that as the gas kind of filled the
environment that it would it would ignite off of candles
(38:14):
burning in another area of the house. Now that that's
a methodology that arsonists have used in the past, and
it seems as though that there's this weird connective tissue
with this case in the gas and back to the
gas before I get to my brains get too scrambled here,
(38:36):
I was thinking, when her body is examined with if
it is a carbon monoxide asshixiation case, let's just say
that she was around this gas that was seeping out
into the house and it's displacing the oxygen. She takes
on carbon monoxide just the opening of her body. We've
(39:00):
kind of talked about how it carbon dioxide affects the hemoglobin.
You'll see it automatically that soft tissues will have a
cherry pink appearance to it. Even the blood will be
cherry pink. And I'm wondering, was this like a half
hearted attempt at that, you know, and it just kind of,
(39:20):
you know, just kind of played out. It didn't work
out like they thought that it was. It seems highly
disorganized to me. I don't know that there was necessarily
a plan going in, but Dave, I'm going to go
ahead and mention this, and it just absolutely breaks my heart,
(39:45):
as if this is not if the fact that what
makes us all the more tragic is the fact that
this child was raped. And as you, my friend, have
famously stated, and I agree with you categorically, children don't
have sex, children are assaulted and raped, period, And she
(40:08):
was in fact raped they have performed a rape kid
on her, Dave, and it bore fruit relative to the
fact that they knew that she had been sexually assaulted.
You're talking about a very impassioned event, twisted and rotten
(40:31):
to the core, but still being driven by passion by
somebody that saw an opportunity for this thirteen year old
girl that had been left at home alone while her
grandma was going out and making a living where her
parents were not around. The mother had famously stated that, yeah,
(40:58):
she would go with her file. I guess the grandmother
gave permission. And you know, you and I were talking
about this off a or anytime you hear a comment
like that, and you know that the grandmother in this
case would be the primary custodian that something has happened
that has been identified that these two adults that brought
her into this world were for whatever reason, incapable of
(41:22):
taking care of her on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Dave, and a couple of the things that we've got
to get to very quickly, Joe, I've got to I'm
very curious because you mentioned earlier that it was Darnell
Jones slash Darnell Ogletree, same person, just different names, which anytimes,
anytime a person who's thirty three years old has two
names they go by. Yeah, immediately, I'm thinking, really, I
don't know anybody other than professionals on in radio and television.
(41:47):
You know people who changed their name for that. I
don't know. I don't know people on the street that
use two different names to go by unless they're criminals.
But I'm not saying that Darnell Jones slash Ogletree is
a criminal. I'm just saying I don't know anybody that is.
He has students, but his girlfriend was a key to
this case. But let me ask you this, Joey. We
(42:08):
know that the night of the sixteenth, Dorothy, the grandmother,
leaves to go to work, and we know that Kimmani
is at the house. We know that Darnell Jones went
there that night, claims he was there till twelve thirty.
We know that that morning when Dorothy got home on
the morning of the seventeenth, that Camani was gone. Now,
Kimmani's body is not found for six days. Her body
(42:31):
is not found for six six days, and it was
on I want to break down what the girlfriend says here. Now,
Darnell Jones's girlfriend at the time helped police find the
evidence in the murder case. She told investigators that Jones
called her on Friday, March twenty first and asked her
to turn the cameras off at their home. Suspicious, she
(42:53):
left the cameras on. This is the twenty first. This
is four days after Camani has been taken from the
home and a couple of days before they find her body.
So on the twenty first, he says turn the cameras off,
she leaves them on. The girlfriend says that she saw
him move items from his suv into the house and
(43:14):
hide them under the basement stairs. Girlfriend calls police, They
get a search warrant, They come in and they take
the evidence. The girlfriend told a reporter that he hid
a mat like you have in the back of an suv,
that rubber floor mat. She said that he put the
rolled up floor mat and his work boots that were
caked with mud. That's where mentioning you. You mentioned how
(43:36):
you hadn't been working. He put these under the stairs
in the basement, and she says that once Jones noticed,
when Darnell Jones noticed that those items were gone, meaning
she calls police. They came, they did the search warrant
and got those items. When Jones came in and realized
those items had been taken, he bolted. She never saw
(43:58):
him again, so he takes off. He knows they got
the evidence. That's gonna so now I'm going back to
the girlfriend says that Jones calls her from Columbus, Ohio,
and she told police where they could find him. Okay,
but Joe, A couple of things here. He's got a
roll that we know that she was found on the
second floor of a burned out house in Tooledo. We
(44:22):
know that he's hiding evidence from his SUV under the
floorboard on the twenty first, four days after her kidnap.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Did he have her somewhere? Wow? And was raping and
terrorizing her for days before he then killed her allegedly
and put her body on the second floor of this
burned out house. Is there a way to determine when
she was killed?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah? There is hoping that the medical legal community did
their due diligence at the scene because it would be
a matter of being able to examine her body. What
we refer to as insight you, which means a fancy
term for in place. So let's just think about this.
(45:09):
If she has been down for we're going to get
into a little entomology here. If she has been down
for say six days, okay, in that location, then there
would be a flies come to mind. There will be
a fly cycle that goes through where you have adult
(45:30):
flies that come in and lay eggs, and those eggs
go through the various stages they go through, You develop
the larva, the maggot. Maggot sheds the husk, becomes an
adult fly, and then that cycle kind of continues on.
And one of the things we do at scenes is
(45:50):
we collect this husk. We collect flies by the way
as well, generally put them in little containers with alcohol
in them. Just the entomology alone is going to give
you an indication of was this six days or was
this two days? You know, had he been riding around
(46:12):
with her in a truck trying to decide what to
do with her. We get back to the fact that
there is a partial dismemberment here. And I always hold
that if an individual is going to engage in that practice,
you need a lot of privacy because it's the matter.
(46:34):
It's a matter of first off, not knowing what you're
doing anatomically, do you have the right tools or you
using some kind of blunt tool that is not sufficient
to the task. I go back to the idea of
the hands, where those hands removed on the surface of
that mat, and it was just kind of like, and
(46:55):
this has happened before, Dave. We have people that will
enter into the idea that they're going to dismember a body,
and then all of a sudden they realize they stepped
off the edge of the pool and they're in the
deep end and not the shallow end, and it's it's
too much of a too much of a burden to
(47:16):
undertake because you don't have the correct skills in order
to engage in this. You don't have the right tools,
and you just suddenly, you know, maybe you get both
the hands that the hands would be the easy part.
The hands in the head would be the two easiest
parts to those elements of the body to be removed
(47:37):
out of everything else. In my estimation, at least feet
at the ankles are complicated. Okay, hands, hands and head
are simple. You get through here, and it's you know,
it's there's a term that lawyers use. Nancy's going to
(47:58):
jump on me for this because I'm you're not a lawyer.
Just got there. There are offenses that are labeled it's
an incomplete offense. They call them in co haate offenses.
This is like an in coo haate act, you know,
where you set about to dismember a body and then
(48:19):
suddenly you realize that it's just it's too much work.
I can't do this. I have to find someplace to
hide this body away. You bring up another interesting point. Dave,
had he been holding her somewhere else torturing her, now,
would would there be other evidences of that? Well, when
(48:42):
we think about, you know, the different things of torture,
you know they're involved. I've had people that were branded
that were tied up, cigarette butts put out, you know,
crushed out on them, chemicals poured on them, and whatever
kind of insult that you subject the living per too.
At a cellular level, you can actually appreciate that the
(49:05):
body begins to try to heal itself. Okay, some injuries
begin to recede. You'll see the body almost trying to
stitch itself back together, if you will, Okay, for lack
of a better term, is there evidence of that is
there evidence that early on that she had been traumatized
in some way in life, and that she had been
(49:25):
kept alive, and that these injuries were starting to subside.
They're not as inflamed as say, the initial insult. That's
certainly something that the emmy would have to explore. And
now I'm sure that they did, you know, because they're
looking at these injuries. Now they're saying that the injuries
on the neck, which is they famously said that this
(49:45):
is a almost complete decapitation, they had hemorrhage in those areas,
so that means that she was alive and had her
throat cut. They also say that she has been sexually assaulted. Okay,
now with that said, we begin to think about that
(50:08):
this is who the police have identified. This is her daddy,
it's her father, her biological parents. I don't it's it's
hard to plumb the depths of this. And this does happen,
(50:32):
it happens a lot. We don't know what kind of
trauma she sustained during sexual assault. At this point. We
don't know if this was an event that was again
anti mortem, was it a post mortem event, And it's
(50:56):
hard to make heads or tails of it. I do
know this, and I would love for you to kind
of lay this out for us. He apparently did not
have the intestinal fortitude to personally deprive us of his presence,
did he No?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
And I mentioned earlier that it was his girlfriend. Thank god,
she has character. You know, she's only called police and
said this is something's going on here. Come. You know,
without her, we would not have a lot of information
that we have. And by the way, the other part
of this, you know, the reason we know about her
(51:36):
hands being cut off, the rape, and the fact that
her neck had been that her head was that she
was nearly decapitated. You know, the Toledo Police chief is
mad about that because it was a spokesperson for the
Fraternal Order of Police that actually gave that information to
the press and it didn't go through the Toledo Police chief.
(51:57):
And he's not he's he's he's mad because he said,
you don't say that out loud in public because you
don't know what the family knows or where the investigation stands.
So while that information is accurate, you don't give that out.
I was shocked we had that information. We've never had
this before.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, I guess I've read I don't know. I think
I've read like eight articles on this case, and it
mentions it in every single.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Case because it's so shocking. And anyway, when the girlfriend
they were looking for Darnelle Jones, Darnelle ogil Dream, they
were looking for him, they couldn't find him, and it
was his girlfriend that found out where he was and
she called police, so they knew where to go in Columbus,
Ohio to go and get him. When they go there,
they know he's armed. I'm going to assume, and that's
(52:46):
a horrible thing, but they knew he was armed somehow.
I'm going to assume that the girlfriend said you'd better
watch out. He's armed, right because he had communicated to
with her what he had planned to do. And when
the police arrived with SWAT. By the way, this is
all in video. SWAT team arrives, it's a bodycam, right yeah,
bodycam yeah yeah yeah, and uh swat bodycam and they
(53:08):
actually they get him. He wants them to kill him,
you know, kill me.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Didn't he say that he actually makes that request?
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Kill me? Yeah, kill me? And they wouldn't. They shot
him in the one place that they knew they could
probably save him. You know, and that's what we know.
We you know, this information has been really given to
us in a very quick amount of time. Usually you
have to wait for reports and things like that too,
you know, before lawyers and everybody else for the cities involved,
(53:39):
usually go through these things. We have to beg for
them and file foyer requests. Not this time, it's all
been just And I'm thankful from our standpoint of getting
the information, Joe, But I wouldn't be thankful if I
was a family member and didn't know what happened. The
other day, we were actually in the middle of a
show and we had family members on the program that
knew information that was not public and that the police
(54:02):
had not given to us yet. And I heard them
say things that I hadn't heard, and it was shocking.
But they knew it. The family knew it right and
and anyway, same thing, it's a hear in reverse. The
family might not have known all the things that went
into this when they released the information to the press.
So bottom line, this girlfriend gave the evidence. She knew
(54:27):
something was wrong when he said turn the cameras off.
She's the one to call police, come and get it
just right here. So they could get a search for
it and know exactly what to look for. Then she
calls and says, I got him. Here he is And
they went and got him in because they knew his
state of mind that he was wanting to die, they
prepped accordingly and didn't kill him and took him into
custody where he'll now be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah he will, and you know, we'll see what the
prosecution does with this. We'll see what the courts, you know,
what they allow. A lot of this data is already
out there and I don't know. I mean, prayers for
her family that remained grandmother. My heart breaks for her,
(55:11):
Dorothy in this particular case, and you know Camanie's mother
as well. Dorothy was the one that was tasked, you know,
with her well being and now this is something that's
going to haunt her. I can guarantee you. And I
hate that, I really do. It's a tough world out there.
(55:33):
You've got to get out there and make a living.
And that as a grandmother you've been tasked with taking
care of your grandchild is you know, it's well, it's
something that happens every single day all over this country.
No thirteen year old should be subjected to a life
(55:53):
of abuse, neglect, sexual assault. And we don't know if
this was the very first time this had occurred, but
what we do know is that the world has been
deprived of a beautiful young girl who died in a
horrible way and was discarded like garbage. I'm Joseph Scott
(56:23):
Morgan and this is body bags
Body dams. But Joseph scotten More, I've seen a lot
of inner city poverty over the course of my years
working as a death investigator. It's part and parcel of
what you do, and you have to understand that it's
many people's reality. People say that they know what it's
(00:26):
like to be poor, but there's being poor and then
there's impoverished, kind of a hopelessness set to in. As
I'm speaking to you right now, I'm looking at a photograph.
It's a photograph of a home, an abandoned home in
(00:50):
a rough neighborhood in Toledo, Ohio, and there is scribbling
on the wall, graffiti, if you will, and around the
home there are also balloons that have been placed there
to form a small memorial for a young lady that
(01:11):
is no longer with us. And just let me tell
you what the graffiti says. It says, you let them
silence her c SB, where's your accountability her life matter?
(01:35):
I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body backs, Dave.
There's just some of these cases that really tug at
our heartstrings, and this is one of them. There are
varying degrees of horror with this case. It's you know
the old adage about going down the rabbit hole, It's
(01:57):
like the deeper you go down the rabbit hole, it's
a descend into hades almost with what happened to this
young girl. And I'm talking about a young lady. She's
thirteen years old, she's a child. Her name was Kamanie Letigue,
and she's from the Toledo, Ohio area. And to say
(02:22):
that she had had had it rough growing up is
certainly an understatement. We cover cases like this regularly, but
I think that it's very important that every time one
of these cases comes up, we need to talk about
it because this is the real stuff that's out there.
This is what not just adults. This is what children
(02:42):
are going through right now. And boy did she She
wound up pain a bill that she did not owe
to anybody, and it is pure hell.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Kimani Lettigue you mentioned, is thirteen years old and is missing.
That's when her story begins. In terms of the media,
and whenever you have a child missing, the first thing
you do is you nowadays you look at the home,
who was in the home, who lived there, who did
she live with? Now and Kamanie Leatigue, her life situation.
(03:14):
She lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and Dorothy was her
Kamani's primary caregiver. And yet her mother, Kamanie's mother and
father biological father were both involved in her life. But
to what degree, We're not entirely sure, because you never
know who to believe in any circumstances. But Kamanie Letigue
(03:37):
at thirteen lived with her grandmother, Dorothy, and her grandmother
worked overnight. Her grandmother went to work ten o'clock at night,
got home at six in the morning. And that's kind
of We've got a couple of different stories like this, okay,
that where a girl goes missing or a young person
goes missing. And I'm going to be honest with you,
(03:57):
at thirteen, a child is a child and not old
enough to be left atlone overnight. You don't leave a
child alone overnight until they're old enough to drive. And
that's just and by the way, it's just a Dave macrule.
And I agree with you. I agree, And I just
have a real problem with this. I know others speel differently,
but I'm just saying that's how I think. But in
(04:19):
her case, and I know I always hear whenever I
say something like that, you don't understand the circumstances. Yeah,
I do. I do understand the circumstances, and I will
tell you can make good choices whether you're rich or poor,
it doesn't matter. Good choices don't have a price tag.
If you're going to be held accountable and responsible for
(04:41):
a child, then and you've accepted that responsibility, you owe
it to the child to make sure that you're taking
care of them. And there are no excuses that I'll
buy just just a personal thing.
Speaker 1 (04:53):
But I agree with you and personal. You know, the
thing about it is these choices. There's you know, it
doesn't matter if you're Richard poy you you know you
you plugged in economics to this and I'm thinking, well,
that investment in making good choices you reap dividends in
(05:14):
the end. And this is where, in my opinion, everyone
failed as child all up and down the line. You know,
from what I have gathered given her background, there been
there were multiple reports of potential child abuse involving Kamani.
(05:38):
She allegedly had marks on her body that were viewed UH.
There were teachers that had alerted the workers at child
Welfare Services and by the way, that comment about CBS
that that was scribbled on the wall outside of this home,
(06:01):
which we'll talk about in a bit. That's that's actually
the acronym for the local Child Welfare Services.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
But look, Joe, from the very beginning, the story begins
with her going missing, and whatever happens after that is
what This is one of the stories where it's we're
covering it because it needs to be covered. People need
to know this happens. But this is a new low.
(06:33):
Every time I think we have mined the bottom of
the pit, we end up with another shovelful. And here
it is Kamanie Letty goes missing and her grandmother, Dorothy
comes home from work and she is just the two
of them that live in the house. They do have
a dog, but just Kamani thirteen Dorothy grandma Kimmani's grandmother
(06:54):
sees her the night of March sixteenth when she's leaving
to go to work that night. When her grandmother comes
home from work that morning of March seventeenth, Kimani is gone.
So her grandmother immediately starts calling around and notifies police
because when she comes home the door is unlocked. That's
(07:15):
not a normal thing. The house was in disarray, not
a normal thing. The stove was on and she could
smell gas, not something that would normally happen. Kimanie's keys
and glasses were still at the house. But the girl
can't see without her glasses, Joe, So Dorothy knows this
(07:36):
is something really bad. Dorothy even had this comment about
the gas being left on. She said, other than her
and I, it's just two dogs in the house. So
who cut it on talking about the gas? So that
was kind of suspicious. Her glasses in her underclothes were
by the couch in the front. Her pajamas were on
the dining room floor. Now, pay attention to what she's
(07:57):
saying there. Her glasses in her underclothes were by the
couch in the front, her pajamas were on the dining
room floor. Yeah, what does that tell you about what
she was wearing, Joe.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Well, obviously prepped for bed. If we're talking about pj's.
The fact that you've got a young a young teen
like this is highly unusual. You know, you can't envision them,
you know, bouncing about the house nude. Not that you
(08:34):
would want to, but the fact that she's apparently naked
and wandering about the house is disturbing, she's already gotten
ready for bed. I would think that, you know, as
an investigator, you would ask the question, well, did she
Is it normal in your household for this thirteen year
(08:54):
old girl to disrobe in the living room where perhaps
they could be seen by a pass or by anybody,
could you know, perhaps walk in. Is that something that
is normal? Then you would want to look and as
troubling as this might be, you would look at the
clothing to see, well, maybe she had an accident, maybe
(09:16):
you know, she wet herself, maybe she had, you know,
some type of intestinal problem, or maybe she's injured in
some way. Is there any any remnant of blood on
the clothing, you know, the underwear, the pjs, because you're
(09:37):
talking about two separate locations. You're talking about the pj's
being in the adjacent area, and then you're talking about
the underwear near the sofa, and with the sofa, one
of the things you're thinking about if this child is
(09:57):
absent her underwear, are we thinking about a sex attack
here at this point in time where the perpetrator, assuming
that this is a male, had made her disrobe or
had ripped her clothing off and then assaulted her there
on the sofa in the living room. There are a
(10:18):
lot of people that sleep on their sofas, Okay, there
are a lot of people that do a lot of
other things on their sofas as well. But you know,
this scene in and of itself would have been perfect
to go in and examine for trace evidence on that sofa.
Try to understand first off, if there's any biological substances,
(10:39):
and one of the things I'm thinking about are two
of the things I'm thinking about are obviously blood and
any kind of seminal deposition. We've got two females living
in this home, and according to the grandmother, they are
seeing the occupants of this home. You would not expect
to find say, remnant of smen, you know, on the sofa.
(11:02):
If it is, I've got a lot of If it
is there, I've got a lot of questions. Was the
grandmother involved with anybody? We wouldn't think that a thirteen
year old would be involved. I'd want to know again
examining the underwear, was there any kind of deposition within
the underwear relative to this as well? So this would
(11:24):
have to be handled very very carefully. Also within the house,
I know that you had mentioned, Dave that the door
was open, But we don't really know if there was
a sign of a forced entry here, do we no?
Speaker 2 (11:38):
And that's here's the interesting well, no, not just the
interesting part. There's a lot here, a lot to unpack,
as you say, or as Nancy says, the uh. And
by the way, the reason we mentioned Nancy, it's Nancy Grace.
That's who we're talking about. That's how Joe and I
got to know one another by being on her show,
and I work on her show on a daily basis
as they do body bags. I'm very proud of the
(12:00):
work we do because I think we're making a difference
at how people consider watching after children in particular, which
is why every time we do a story about a child,
a thirteen year old that goes missing, I feel like
I'm more aware of the children in my neighborhood. I'm
more aware of their schedules. Now. I am more than
I was a few years ago when my children were
(12:20):
of that age, because now I know what's normal in
my neighborhood, what takes you know, and in this case,
what we do know. We know that the door was
it was unlocked. That is not a normal occurrence. They
kept that door locked, so that's a start. Now we
don't know if there was forced entry, but we do
know a few other things. We know that the home
was in disarray. This is also something that Dorothy said
(12:44):
that was not common. And you can think about this.
Dorothy is a you know, as a grandmother teaching her
thirteen year old granddaughter how to act, how to behave,
how to keep your house in order kind of thing.
I can see that. You know that if it was
in disarray, this would be an unexpected occurrence. And the
gas being turned on the stove, there was a reason
for that, and we don't know that reason. But what
(13:07):
we do know is that when she goes missing, there's
no sign of Kimani anywhere, and the media is there
to cover it. And so Kimani's father, her biological father,
is there to talk about her, and he goes on
TV Joe and he is begging for somebody to share information.
His name is Darnell Jones. He also goes by Darnell Ogletree.
(13:31):
Darnell is thirty three years old and he is on
local television in Toledo saying, please help find my daughter.
But what we find out Joe, is that on that
night of March sixteenth into March seventeenth, when Kimani was
home on March sixteenth, her grandmother sar when she left
for work. Well, Darnell Jones says he got a call
(13:53):
from Kimani and she said she was scared being left
home alone. Would he come over? And so now we
know that Darnell Jones went to that house and took
a friend and he says they stayed there until about
twelve thirty. That's from her biological father, Darnell Jones.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Let me, let's unpack it a little bit here. We
are using that term again. One of the things that
stands out to me relative to this door that we
had mentioned, if it is not forced open. Many times
when you see a home where maybe there's been to
(14:41):
call it a home invasion is not necessarily accurate. But
when you have a door that has not been knocked
off the hinges or that the you know that it's
been kicked in adjacent to the door knob, you're thinking, well,
somebody had to open it from the inside or was
it ever locked at all? To gain fourth century? Well,
(15:04):
what do we think about that? If you and I,
let's just say our kids show up at the house. Okay,
our door is locked. You know. I can look out
my front window. I see when Noah arrives at our house,
and eagerly I hop up and go and lock the
door and open it for him, you know, because I'm
happy to see him, right And I don't there's no
(15:25):
threat there. Okay, I'm not talking to him through the door.
Can you please verify for me your id So one
of the first things that that's why we always talk
about fourth century and struggle. Now, I don't know that
we can classify this, and I would beg you to
please use that the term that the grandmother used one
(15:48):
more time. What did you say about the interior of
the house, that it was what it was?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
In disarray? Yeah, I meaning it was a mess.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Yeah, it's a mess. And here's a term that I
don't know if you've heard in a while. The old
guys used to use it. That trained me. They'd love
to use the term rifling, and I'm not talking about ballistics.
They would use the term like rifled through objects or
personal belongings, or generally it applies to like paperwork, and
(16:17):
you know, people are rifling through things. You know when
you talk about in disarray, is it is it pose
like a purposed disarray where maybe you're using the items
in the house to threaten somebody with, maybe you're throwing things,
or is it can you frame it like drawers being
(16:40):
open and things tossed out because you're looking for valuables.
You know, it's a completely different way of looking at it.
You can get this. I love the term menacing and
how easy would it be think about it when you
are thirteen? How easy would it be for adult to
(17:02):
have menaced you. Being a death investigator, I'm giving pause
(17:24):
sometimes to think about where my physical body will wind up.
And I'm not necessarily talking about at a funeral home
or in a graveyard. You have these moments in time
where you think, well, might I die in my bed?
(17:44):
Might I be behind the wheel? Might not be at
my desk and suddenly struck by a heart attack or
a stroke. I can tell you what's not on my
bingo card. It's not a burned out house, abandoned, burned
(18:06):
out house with windows boarded up, the vinyl siding on
it curled because of the intense heat that ravaged the place.
That's not what I'm thinking and I can tell you this.
When Camani was born thirteen years ago, nobody was thinking
(18:29):
about that. I can guarantee you. But Dave got to
tell you, brother, that's where this angel wound up.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You know, when her dad went on TV and said
I was here, she called she was worried that some
man was trying to break in, or somebody was trying
to break in. You know as well as I do.
When the police heard that ding ding ding radars went up.
He's now put himself in that house during the time
(18:58):
we know she was taken, because we know Grandma was
there at ten on the night of the sixteenth. When
she came home early morning of the seventeenth, Kamani was gone.
And now we have dad on local TV saying, yeah,
I was there till about twelve thirty with a cousin
of mine. We stayed there. Now, as a father, well yeah,
(19:23):
I can't even identify with any situation with this, But
as a man, would you ever leave a thirteen year
old child afraid of being left alone? Would could you
possibly leave at twelve thirty at night with your thirteen
year old daughter saying she's scared? Hey, I don't know
A real man would.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
There was no way under the sun that I would
do that.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
So do you think the police bought that?
Speaker 1 (19:47):
No, of course they didn't, and it didn't. It just
doesn't hold water, you know. If it's me and I
can only speak to me, all right, right, If I've
got a thirteen year old daughter, who is you know,
sitting there shaking and she's afraid that a man, a
man dave implying, a grown man exactly threatening her or
(20:11):
after her, do you think I'm going to pedal myself
out of that driveway and leave and not take her
with me, or at least, hey, baby, you go get
in your bed. I'm going to sit here on the
sofa and if you need anything, you just come back
in here. But I'm going to stay here until your
grandma gets back.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
You know what else?
Speaker 1 (20:33):
What else does he have to do? At twelve thirty,
we've already established haying at work. We do know that
per his girlfriend that he had muddy work boots. But
do you know what she says? She says, this is
a statement that she gave later, kind of bearing the
lead here, but she's she's like it worked, and I
(20:53):
don't know how long, you know, So it's not like
his dance card is full for the next morning. All right,
So you're telling me the universal you not you, Dave Mac.
You're telling me that your boy just rolls out of
there with a frightened thirteen year old daughter. And grandma
(21:17):
is still what if she's working, If she's working mids,
she's going in at ten, Yeah, until she ain't getting
off until six or seven, and then she's got to
commute back home. That's what you're trying to tell me, dude.
I'm not buying it. I am just not buying it.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
And the thing is is that you know immediately when
when Grandma gets home on the seventeenth, they immediately begin
looking for Kimani. They're looking all over the neighborhood because again,
you're going to you're not going to jump to every
conclusion in the world. You're going to try to make
sense of this somehow. And they spent the entire day
of the seventeenth going door to door, friends, neighbors, community members,
(21:56):
did a search. They did a complete search of the
area before actually reporting missing, and she was technically legally
reported missing on the eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
Hey time, was the dad involved in the search for her?
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yes, yeah, he was. That's why he was on TV
right away. Please, I was there. You know she was
afraid of See he was already staging it. When he's
on TV, he's there saying I was with her till
twelve thirty because she was afraid somebody was trying to
break in. So immediately we're not bearing the lead by
telling you that he's the guy we're looking at. But
here's what actually happened, Joe. They found her body. They
(22:29):
found her body in a horrible place, and you're going
to have to describe what condition she was in when
they found her, because I've looked at it and I'm
trying to figure out how does one make sense of
what happened to this missing thirteen year old Because between
(22:49):
the time that we know she's missing at the time
we find it, there's no you know, you're not getting
a letter in the mail, you know, with a ransom
saying I need twenty thousand dollars and you'll see her.
We're not getting any of that. We're not getting picked
is holding herround. I mean, she's missing until she's found,
and when she has found, she's found dead. Now, how
did they find her? What condition was her body in?
(23:13):
It boggles the mind. And what we're just going to
have to describe really had.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And let me give everybody a warning here because we're
going to talk about and I know that sounds weird
here on body bags, but I've got to tell you
there's a term that judges use many times, and it's
called this so shocks the conscience of the court. And
this shocked me. You know when I heard about the
(23:37):
nature of this case. I can't think of one right now,
even though we've had a lot of over the top
cases with a lot of forensics that you know, would
make your blood chill. But you know that's that's one
of the ways we make it through it as investigators,
(23:59):
is that, uh, at least in my sense, is that
I try to look at things scientifically. Dave, It's hard
for me not to look at this as a dad,
it really is. It's uh, it's it makes me sick
to my back teeth.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
And and I do want to add one quick thought. Yeah,
before they found her body, yes, the police had already
identified that her biological father, Darnell Jones Jarnell Ogletree, that
they wanted him for kidnapping. They had established that based
on what he had said, based on the what and
(24:36):
what they had pulled together, and so they were going
to they were trying to find him. Then he'd already
been on local TV saying, help me find my daughter.
And now he's our suspect. And they charged him with
abducting her before they found the body.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Yeah, they charged him, but with kidnapping. They didn't have him.
And but what we do have is Kimanie and day
when when she is found. As as aforementioned, Uh, this
it's a two story give you kind of the rundown.
(25:11):
It's a two story dwelling in in this particular neighborhood.
It's gray in color. Uh, and it's got vinyl siding.
And if you've never been to a fire scene, when
vinyl siding is involved, what happens is is that it
(25:33):
gets so hot, uh, the exterior heat, you know, the
heat that's been given off from inside. It's like laying
plastic on a you know, on like an oven surface.
It curls and that's that's what the vinyl siding does
in this particular case. So it kind of curls up
and you see this, uh, just kind of a further
(25:54):
paint this picture. You see this it's smoke with the
remnant of smoke and charring that has that you see
at the top of these windows downstairs. Now these windows
have been boarded up. They've been boarded up because his
house is probably an iesore in the community. It's gone
(26:18):
through a fire, the fire was knocked out. You see
this kind of scoring and staining of smoke at the
top of the window. And what's going on is it
looks like this fire whenever it did happen, started on
the bottom floor, because the top doesn't necessarily look as
bad as the bottom. And so as fire licks out
(26:38):
of a house, it's trying to get to the highest
point so they can grab oxygen and consume it. All right,
it's eating oxygen. And so many times when you go
out the house fires, you'll see this. I can only
imagine that when they made their way into this house
and they got up on that second floor landing and
(27:02):
they began to look around, I can almost guarantee you
there was a foloader, there was a fouloader. And that's
really hard to separate out because if you've ever been
around a fire like a bonfire, or maybe you've had
the unfortunate circumstances of having a house fire, that smell
(27:23):
is rather pervasive. But the one thing that will trump
that smell is decomposing bodies. You can get an idea
and then when it's commingled and blended. I don't know
how much they were able to actually appreciate at the scene,
but when they found her little broken body, they discovered
(27:48):
that she had almost been completely decapitated because she had
multiple insized ones. I can go into that, but the
one thing are the two things that we're missing are
(28:10):
those elements of our anatomy that even when we're babies,
we're exploring the world around us with You see, in
the case of Kimani, someone had taken the time to
not almost cut her head off, but they completely cut
(28:31):
both of her hands off. The when they did their
exam on Kimani, they determined that her cause of death, Dave,
(28:57):
was going to be these injuries to her neck. Now,
these are sharp force injuries, but they're not they're not
stab ones. Okay, these are incized ones.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And you're going to have to explain the difference, Joe, Yeah,
featuring in my head.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, the knife. If you just think of a knife,
knives are inserted, that's a stab one. If a knife
or sharp object, sharp instrument, sharp weapon, it's called sharp
force injuries. If that blade is drug across a surface,
that's an incised one. Okay, I'll give it to you
(29:34):
in the most simple terms. If you've ever you know,
like myself, the idiot at large here, was ever cutting up.
I've done it many times on on onions because I
get careless with them. I want to put as much
distance between myself as possible in them as you're cutting them.
(29:54):
I've cut my fingers multiple times. I've cut myself in
the morgue dave through my glove and this happens a lot,
generally with a scalpel blade, but they're always I've never
stabbed myself. I've always cut myself. So these are in
sized wounds. That means that the surface, the leading edge
of that surface has been drug or pressed into the
(30:17):
underlying tissue, and so it creates these very very neat
what we refer to as neat margins. Because you're talking
about a milled edged weapon that it's not going to
be jagged, and a little primer here so that folks
will understand. Many times we will get out onto the scenes,
and we will see individuals that have been beaten to
(30:39):
death and they have lacerations. People in the emergency room
abbreviate that and they call them lax lac It's a laceration.
Make no mistake. A laceration is not a cut. Laceration
in the purest sense of the definition, comes about as
a result of blunt forced and so you will get
(31:01):
these weird looking, jagged injuries where the skin literally rips. Okay,
you'll get injuries where, uh you know, I even think
about like contact press contact gunshot wounds to the head
where the skin expands, and you'll get that stellate presentation
(31:23):
which looks like a star. That's actually a laceration because
the gas is expanding the skin. That's not what Kamani had.
Kimani actually had insized and apparently multiple insized ones. And
they're not just it diminished, it diminishes the injuries that
she's sustained to her neck. By saying that her head
(31:48):
was almost cut off or she was almost decapitated, dave
to go through what we refer to as full thickness.
If you're talking about you have superficial injuries that happened
with knives and knives in particular where you're talking about
full thickness. Most of the time doctor's forensic pathologists when
(32:08):
they use that term, that means that it will go
through the full thickness of the skin, epidermis, the dermas,
down through the subkey fat into the muscle. So that's
like a full thickness injury. If they're saying that she
was almost decapitated, that means that he had gotten down
to the bony structures with the sharp instrument that he
(32:28):
had used. And the first thing I'm thinking about is
the cervical spinal column. That he couldn't go through it
because probably all he had at his disposal was a knife.
Now I don't know that for certain. There could have
been other things, but one of the shocking things, one
(32:51):
just one of the shocking things relative to Camani's case,
is that both of her hands had been cut off. Now,
I've had cases like this, and I was actually in
a great presentation one time many years ago. This is
you know, you file this under how stupid are criminals?
A guy's body was actually found in a creek and
(33:14):
he had been both decapitated. They never found his head
and both of his hands had been cut off. The
idea that investigators came up with, well, they did that
in order to either delay or prevent the guy's identification,
you know, because you don't have teeth at that point
and you don't have hands to do prints with. The
(33:36):
idiot that killed him and did this to him left
the guy's wallet in his back pocket. Even though the
case that was being presented, I'm listening to this, you know,
my mouth is wide open. I'm listening to this. Even
though you didn't have the head and you didn't have
the hands, that were still able to get him identified.
And I'm thinking, well, in Camani's case, why would this
(33:59):
say it not satanist? Satanist and I'm using that term
because there's a sexual component here. Why would this individual
cut the hands off? Are you doing that in order
(34:22):
to inhibit or impede rather, I guess the authority's ability
to get her identified through fingerprints? Well, does she have
fingerprints on file? Do you know something about that? I mean,
she has been a child that has gone through the system.
Did Local Family Children's Services? Did they ever print her
(34:46):
for anything? Are you thinking that? Do you think that
you're going to thwart this investigation? By merely removing this
thirteen year old's hands. Is that where we're at with this,
because I don't understand the rationale behind it. Were you're
going to try to piecemeal out the body and you
(35:08):
were merely going to this abandoned house. And here's another thing,
this house, Dave and the doors, well maybe not necessarily
the doors, they've been boarded up as a result of
this previous fire. You can see kind of that particle board,
cheap particle board that you used to cover windows after fires,
and they dropped screws in there, you know, to cover
(35:29):
the windows to prevent anybody from because it's dangerous. I mean,
burned out houses are one of the most dangerous environments
you could be in. Well, you have to think whoever
the perpetrator is had a familiarity with the area. They
would have gone directly to that house. Maybe they had
seen it in the daytime passing by. Did any you know,
(35:53):
did anybody see somebody carrying this young girl's body into
the house? And then how did you gain access to
the house. And it's not just like this is done
on the first floor. Once they made entry into the house,
they went to the second, second floor to do this.
(36:14):
So had they been hanging out in here before, did
they know that the staircase was safe. It's one thing
if you're going to try to walk yourself up a
staircase in the dark in a burned out house, But
now you're going to take the body of a thirteen
year old and walk up the staircase with that body
(36:35):
and then do whatever it is you're going to do
with that body upstairs. I don't know. There's a lot
of questions here from a forensics perspective, Dave that right now,
we don't have the answers.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
To We don't know. And that's what I was going
to ask you. Okay, they would obviously know. They being
the investigators, when they're doing the autopsy, they're going to
be able to determine that her hands were cut off
after she was dead.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
They're going to yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah, and so
you're going to be looking for hemorrhage in there. If
there's no hemorrhage, there's you know, then that's an indicative
of a post mortem event.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
This is something they haven't described whether or not this
is the location. Was she killed at this location or
was she killed somewhere else? And brought there.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Yeah. Yeah, And there's a lot to consider here as well.
I find it very interesting. Can we go back just
a second to her home. Yeah, and I'm thinking about
the gas being on her.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I am too, That's exactly I'm in the same boat,
because my first thought was, Okay, wait a minute, we
got a burned out house here where her body is
found on the side or and I believe that whoever
kidnapped her, whoever took Kamani outside of her grandmother's home,
set that gas on to blow the place up to
ruin any other evidence he left behind. And that's my job.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Here's another thing I'm wondering. I'm wondering if there were
if the individual had thought about that, had they lit
candles in the house in another area, hoping that hoping,
just hoping that as the gas kind of filled the
environment that it would it would ignite off of candles
(38:14):
burning in another area of the house. Now that that's
a methodology that arsonists have used in the past, and
it seems as though that there's this weird connective tissue
with this case in the gas and back to the
gas before I get to my brains get too scrambled here,
(38:36):
I was thinking, when her body is examined with if
it is a carbon monoxide asshixiation case, let's just say
that she was around this gas that was seeping out
into the house and it's displacing the oxygen. She takes
on carbon monoxide just the opening of her body. We've
(39:00):
kind of talked about how it carbon dioxide affects the hemoglobin.
You'll see it automatically that soft tissues will have a
cherry pink appearance to it. Even the blood will be
cherry pink. And I'm wondering, was this like a half
hearted attempt at that, you know, and it just kind of,
(39:20):
you know, just kind of played out. It didn't work
out like they thought that it was. It seems highly
disorganized to me. I don't know that there was necessarily
a plan going in, but Dave, I'm going to go
ahead and mention this, and it just absolutely breaks my heart,
(39:45):
as if this is not if the fact that what
makes us all the more tragic is the fact that
this child was raped. And as you, my friend, have
famously stated, and I agree with you categorically, children don't
have sex, children are assaulted and raped, period, And she
(40:08):
was in fact raped they have performed a rape kid
on her, Dave, and it bore fruit relative to the
fact that they knew that she had been sexually assaulted.
You're talking about a very impassioned event, twisted and rotten
(40:31):
to the core, but still being driven by passion by
somebody that saw an opportunity for this thirteen year old
girl that had been left at home alone while her
grandma was going out and making a living where her
parents were not around. The mother had famously stated that, yeah,
(40:58):
she would go with her file. I guess the grandmother
gave permission. And you know, you and I were talking
about this off a or anytime you hear a comment
like that, and you know that the grandmother in this
case would be the primary custodian that something has happened
that has been identified that these two adults that brought
her into this world were for whatever reason, incapable of
(41:22):
taking care of her on a day to day basis.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Dave, and a couple of the things that we've got
to get to very quickly, Joe, I've got to I'm
very curious because you mentioned earlier that it was Darnell
Jones slash Darnell Ogletree, same person, just different names, which anytimes,
anytime a person who's thirty three years old has two
names they go by. Yeah, immediately, I'm thinking, really, I
don't know anybody other than professionals on in radio and television.
(41:47):
You know people who changed their name for that. I
don't know. I don't know people on the street that
use two different names to go by unless they're criminals.
But I'm not saying that Darnell Jones slash Ogletree is
a criminal. I'm just saying I don't know anybody that is.
He has students, but his girlfriend was a key to
this case. But let me ask you this, Joey. We
(42:08):
know that the night of the sixteenth, Dorothy, the grandmother,
leaves to go to work, and we know that Kimmani
is at the house. We know that Darnell Jones went
there that night, claims he was there till twelve thirty.
We know that that morning when Dorothy got home on
the morning of the seventeenth, that Camani was gone. Now,
Kimmani's body is not found for six days. Her body
(42:31):
is not found for six six days, and it was
on I want to break down what the girlfriend says here. Now,
Darnell Jones's girlfriend at the time helped police find the
evidence in the murder case. She told investigators that Jones
called her on Friday, March twenty first and asked her
to turn the cameras off at their home. Suspicious, she
(42:53):
left the cameras on. This is the twenty first. This
is four days after Camani has been taken from the
home and a couple of days before they find her body.
So on the twenty first, he says turn the cameras off,
she leaves them on. The girlfriend says that she saw
him move items from his suv into the house and
(43:14):
hide them under the basement stairs. Girlfriend calls police, They
get a search warrant, They come in and they take
the evidence. The girlfriend told a reporter that he hid
a mat like you have in the back of an suv,
that rubber floor mat. She said that he put the
rolled up floor mat and his work boots that were
caked with mud. That's where mentioning you. You mentioned how
(43:36):
you hadn't been working. He put these under the stairs
in the basement, and she says that once Jones noticed,
when Darnell Jones noticed that those items were gone, meaning
she calls police. They came, they did the search warrant
and got those items. When Jones came in and realized
those items had been taken, he bolted. She never saw
(43:58):
him again, so he takes off. He knows they got
the evidence. That's gonna so now I'm going back to
the girlfriend says that Jones calls her from Columbus, Ohio,
and she told police where they could find him. Okay,
but Joe, A couple of things here. He's got a
roll that we know that she was found on the
second floor of a burned out house in Tooledo. We
(44:22):
know that he's hiding evidence from his SUV under the
floorboard on the twenty first, four days after her kidnap.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Did he have her somewhere? Wow? And was raping and
terrorizing her for days before he then killed her allegedly
and put her body on the second floor of this
burned out house. Is there a way to determine when
she was killed?
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yeah? There is hoping that the medical legal community did
their due diligence at the scene because it would be
a matter of being able to examine her body. What
we refer to as insight you, which means a fancy
term for in place. So let's just think about this.
(45:09):
If she has been down for we're going to get
into a little entomology here. If she has been down
for say six days, okay, in that location, then there
would be a flies come to mind. There will be
a fly cycle that goes through where you have adult
(45:30):
flies that come in and lay eggs, and those eggs
go through the various stages they go through, You develop
the larva, the maggot. Maggot sheds the husk, becomes an
adult fly, and then that cycle kind of continues on.
And one of the things we do at scenes is
(45:50):
we collect this husk. We collect flies by the way
as well, generally put them in little containers with alcohol
in them. Just the entomology alone is going to give
you an indication of was this six days or was
this two days? You know, had he been riding around
(46:12):
with her in a truck trying to decide what to
do with her. We get back to the fact that
there is a partial dismemberment here. And I always hold
that if an individual is going to engage in that practice,
you need a lot of privacy because it's the matter.
(46:34):
It's a matter of first off, not knowing what you're
doing anatomically, do you have the right tools or you
using some kind of blunt tool that is not sufficient
to the task. I go back to the idea of
the hands, where those hands removed on the surface of
that mat, and it was just kind of like, and
(46:55):
this has happened before, Dave. We have people that will
enter into the idea that they're going to dismember a body,
and then all of a sudden they realize they stepped
off the edge of the pool and they're in the
deep end and not the shallow end, and it's it's
too much of a too much of a burden to
(47:16):
undertake because you don't have the correct skills in order
to engage in this. You don't have the right tools,
and you just suddenly, you know, maybe you get both
the hands that the hands would be the easy part.
The hands in the head would be the two easiest
parts to those elements of the body to be removed
(47:37):
out of everything else. In my estimation, at least feet
at the ankles are complicated. Okay, hands, hands and head
are simple. You get through here, and it's you know,
it's there's a term that lawyers use. Nancy's going to
(47:58):
jump on me for this because I'm you're not a lawyer.
Just got there. There are offenses that are labeled it's
an incomplete offense. They call them in co haate offenses.
This is like an in coo haate act, you know,
where you set about to dismember a body and then
(48:19):
suddenly you realize that it's just it's too much work.
I can't do this. I have to find someplace to
hide this body away. You bring up another interesting point. Dave,
had he been holding her somewhere else torturing her, now,
would would there be other evidences of that? Well, when
(48:42):
we think about, you know, the different things of torture,
you know they're involved. I've had people that were branded
that were tied up, cigarette butts put out, you know,
crushed out on them, chemicals poured on them, and whatever
kind of insult that you subject the living per too.
At a cellular level, you can actually appreciate that the
(49:05):
body begins to try to heal itself. Okay, some injuries
begin to recede. You'll see the body almost trying to
stitch itself back together, if you will, Okay, for lack
of a better term, is there evidence of that is
there evidence that early on that she had been traumatized
in some way in life, and that she had been
(49:25):
kept alive, and that these injuries were starting to subside.
They're not as inflamed as say, the initial insult. That's
certainly something that the emmy would have to explore. And
now I'm sure that they did, you know, because they're
looking at these injuries. Now they're saying that the injuries
on the neck, which is they famously said that this
(49:45):
is a almost complete decapitation, they had hemorrhage in those areas,
so that means that she was alive and had her
throat cut. They also say that she has been sexually assaulted. Okay,
now with that said, we begin to think about that
(50:08):
this is who the police have identified. This is her daddy,
it's her father, her biological parents. I don't it's it's
hard to plumb the depths of this. And this does happen,
(50:32):
it happens a lot. We don't know what kind of
trauma she sustained during sexual assault. At this point. We
don't know if this was an event that was again
anti mortem, was it a post mortem event, And it's
(50:56):
hard to make heads or tails of it. I do
know this, and I would love for you to kind
of lay this out for us. He apparently did not
have the intestinal fortitude to personally deprive us of his presence,
did he No?
Speaker 2 (51:14):
And I mentioned earlier that it was his girlfriend. Thank god,
she has character. You know, she's only called police and
said this is something's going on here. Come. You know,
without her, we would not have a lot of information
that we have. And by the way, the other part
of this, you know, the reason we know about her
(51:36):
hands being cut off, the rape, and the fact that
her neck had been that her head was that she
was nearly decapitated. You know, the Toledo Police chief is
mad about that because it was a spokesperson for the
Fraternal Order of Police that actually gave that information to
the press and it didn't go through the Toledo Police chief.
(51:57):
And he's not he's he's he's mad because he said,
you don't say that out loud in public because you
don't know what the family knows or where the investigation stands.
So while that information is accurate, you don't give that out.
I was shocked we had that information. We've never had
this before.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Yeah, I guess I've read I don't know. I think
I've read like eight articles on this case, and it
mentions it in every single.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Case because it's so shocking. And anyway, when the girlfriend
they were looking for Darnelle Jones, Darnelle ogil Dream, they
were looking for him, they couldn't find him, and it
was his girlfriend that found out where he was and
she called police, so they knew where to go in Columbus,
Ohio to go and get him. When they go there,
they know he's armed. I'm going to assume, and that's
(52:46):
a horrible thing, but they knew he was armed somehow.
I'm going to assume that the girlfriend said you'd better
watch out. He's armed, right because he had communicated to
with her what he had planned to do. And when
the police arrived with SWAT. By the way, this is
all in video. SWAT team arrives, it's a bodycam, right yeah,
bodycam yeah yeah yeah, and uh swat bodycam and they
(53:08):
actually they get him. He wants them to kill him,
you know, kill me.
Speaker 1 (53:13):
Didn't he say that he actually makes that request?
Speaker 2 (53:17):
Kill me? Yeah, kill me? And they wouldn't. They shot
him in the one place that they knew they could
probably save him. You know, and that's what we know.
We you know, this information has been really given to
us in a very quick amount of time. Usually you
have to wait for reports and things like that too,
you know, before lawyers and everybody else for the cities involved,
(53:39):
usually go through these things. We have to beg for
them and file foyer requests. Not this time, it's all
been just And I'm thankful from our standpoint of getting
the information, Joe, But I wouldn't be thankful if I
was a family member and didn't know what happened. The
other day, we were actually in the middle of a
show and we had family members on the program that
knew information that was not public and that the police
(54:02):
had not given to us yet. And I heard them
say things that I hadn't heard, and it was shocking.
But they knew it. The family knew it right and
and anyway, same thing, it's a hear in reverse. The
family might not have known all the things that went
into this when they released the information to the press.
So bottom line, this girlfriend gave the evidence. She knew
(54:27):
something was wrong when he said turn the cameras off.
She's the one to call police, come and get it
just right here. So they could get a search for
it and know exactly what to look for. Then she
calls and says, I got him. Here he is And
they went and got him in because they knew his
state of mind that he was wanting to die, they
prepped accordingly and didn't kill him and took him into
custody where he'll now be held accountable.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yeah he will, and you know, we'll see what the
prosecution does with this. We'll see what the courts, you know,
what they allow. A lot of this data is already
out there and I don't know. I mean, prayers for
her family that remained grandmother. My heart breaks for her,
(55:11):
Dorothy in this particular case, and you know Camanie's mother
as well. Dorothy was the one that was tasked, you know,
with her well being and now this is something that's
going to haunt her. I can guarantee you. And I
hate that, I really do. It's a tough world out there.
(55:33):
You've got to get out there and make a living.
And that as a grandmother you've been tasked with taking
care of your grandchild is you know, it's well, it's
something that happens every single day all over this country.
No thirteen year old should be subjected to a life
(55:53):
of abuse, neglect, sexual assault. And we don't know if
this was the very first time this had occurred, but
what we do know is that the world has been
deprived of a beautiful young girl who died in a
horrible way and was discarded like garbage. I'm Joseph Scott
(56:23):
Morgan and this is body bags
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
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