July 26, 2023 • 24 mins
The trial of Taylor Schabusiness, accused in murder of her boyfriend Shad Thyrion is currently underway. In this episode of Body Bags, hosts Joseph Scott Morgan and Dave Mack look at the evidence coming out in the courtroom. They discuss the devastating impacts of drug usage, the murder weapons, and an unconventional dating relationship that culminated in Thyrion's brutal murder.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. If you have a basement,
you know things to be looking for in your basement.
Maybe tools, maybe old furniture, maybe I don't know. In
(00:30):
my case, a man cave, never had one, always wanted one.
But the one thing you don't expect to find is
the head of your son in a bucket along with
his genitalia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave.
(00:51):
I had to reach out to you, my friend, because
I wanted to have a brief update on this trial
that is going on in Wisconsin involving Taylorship Business.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
When you sent me the video of Taylorship Business in
court making her fingers into a gun and shooting it
at the judge and laughing, I thought, Holy moly, what
is going on? And so I'd started digging into what's
happening in the courtroom with taylor'shaw business, who is standing
(01:25):
trial for the murder of her boyfriend, I guess is
what we call him. She is accused of murdering this man,
cutting his head off, gutting him, and leaving his head
in a bucket with his private parts for his mother
to find. That's where we start with this story. How
(01:45):
far do you dig the hole?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Joe? Yeah, you know, we knew some things the you know,
I guess it was. Was it back in June? I
guess first part of June. It was that we laid
down the original case because it was so shocking to
me at that point in time. Oh my lord, I
didn't expect to hear what I heard. We've got a
succession of people that have come on the stand at
(02:08):
this point in time, including the medical examiner there in
this county that got up and testified, and let me
give you an insight, there's one quote that has come out.
It's allegedly attributed to her. Have you ever loved something
so much that you wanted to kill it? I don't
(02:29):
know what to make of that. And I've had a
lot of things that have come across my desk over
the years, and certainly things I've talked about that leave
you kind of dumbfounded. But that in and of itself
is quite striking and maybe insightful to a great degree.
But from a forensic standpoint, there's something about this case
(02:50):
that I'm very well pleased about. I've talked about previously
on body bags how forensic pathologists rarely come out tones
because there's not enough of them. There are multiple deaths
happening all the time, and the friends of pathologists generally
is back at the morgue doing examinations while the investigators
(03:11):
are out processing scenes and you know, looking into cases.
In this particular case, the medical examiner, the friends of
pathologists physically arrived at this site in Green Bay, Wisconsin
because it was just it was so fragmented. And I
mean that in a literal sense when it comes to
(03:33):
the body that from an anatomical standpoint, you have to
be able to make sense out of what you have.
It's very simple, very simple arithmetic what you have and
what you don't have. And remember, there was this cryptic statement,
and this is paraphrasing that business actually stated as she
(03:54):
was being led off in this particular case, good luck
trying to find everything. And they had a devil of
a time. And you can imagine when you walk into
a scene and you've got first off, you're starting with
the head in the bucket. And we knew at that
when we laid down the first episode that he had
(04:17):
been castrated and or at least his penis was removed.
But now there's actually this moment in time when there's
lead detective on the stand, Dave, and he is saying
that when he first observed this bucket, that keep in
mind that this poor kid's mama actually found when she
(04:37):
went down into this basement. She had Thyron is actually
living with his mother, and she goes down into the
basement because she had heard the door slam late at night,
gets up, goes down the basement, and she's looking for him.
I guess she calls out to him, and she's the
one that actually looks into the bucket and finds this.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
She he's the one that called nine to one to one.
And I'm trying to figure out if she was just
walking down there looking for something and saw the bucket
and saw the head and then covered the bucket with
a towel.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's hard to make heads or tails of it at
this point in time, but I do know it was
it was almost like her own way of checking for things.
She was checking on the status of her adult son
who lives with her, and she came down the staircase.
She called out to him, and this is what she discovered.
(05:35):
I don't think that she had manipulated the head anyway,
and what I mean by that put her hands on
the head, you know, as you can imagine, she ran
off in terror and called nine to one one. But
what the detective actually says is that once once this
head was discovered and they began to kind of document it,
which is what we do at the scene, that carefully
removed the head from the bucket, and he states that
(05:59):
it was at that moment time that he realized that
there were a set of male genitalia in the bucket.
So what we're talking about here is the penis and
the testicles, and what has also been described by the
medical examiner or the forensic pathologist at the scene, they
are these kind of links of torn flesh that are
(06:23):
in there as well, independent of these items, and that
goes to another part of this case that we had
no idea about.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But what do you mean by torn flesh yet?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, oh, and let me add this as well. There
were also knives found as well contained therein and there
of course blood saturated and there's what appears according to them,
a certain amount of blood in the bucket as well,
and that comes into play in this case very significantly.
(06:55):
But when you begin to examine his body. And what
the forensic pathologists made note of is that when they
began to examine his body, once they removed everything that
they had from the scene back to the autopsy suite,
it looked as though this individual had attempted to filet
(07:19):
his back. And this is something that's so over the
top relative to mutilation, you know, and even the you know,
aside from the dismemberment, you're talking about an individual that
took the time take a knife and literally peel the
skin in certain locations, primarily off the back of this
(07:41):
young man. And then these items are all deposited all
about this area down there, including organs that had, according
to the medical examiner, had been physically removed through these
really jaggedions that she had made, uh anteriorly, which means
(08:04):
on the front, through the abdomen, this sort of thing.
And you know, here here's here's kind of the kicker
that was really quite striking to me, Dave, This Shad's
right foot had been removed, it had been dismembered at
the ankle, and Dave, when the forensic pathologists did their examination,
(08:28):
they actually found they actually found the foot in this
kid's chest just let that sink in just for a moment,
that this had been done to this kid, and it
was it was just it was beyond the pale.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Please tell me that there's a way to know whether
or not this man was dead or alive when this
started taking place, the playing, the chopping off of things.
Is there a way to know?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah? Yeah, And this has brought out and you know,
that's an insightful question and something that everybody wants to know,
and that's important here. If there's any kind of if
there's any kind of solace that I think that maybe
family members can take in this. According to the medical examiner,
one of the things that you're looking for when you
go for your examination, you'll refer to focal areas of hemorrhage.
(09:43):
You know, if you have an incised area and a
place that's been cut, they refer to it as an
insized area. You're looking for areas of hemorrhage in that tissue.
So just imagine that you take a knife and you
cut cut an apple. Friends, it's okay when you part
that apple if you don't completely you know, slice it
(10:04):
into and you just look at the edges of it.
That's what they do at autopsy. So when they're examining
these injuries that have been generated by the perpetrator, allegedly
that those incised areas, those linear incisions that are being
made in this case that are actually curvelin here because
they're so jagged. You've got some that are straight, some
(10:26):
that are kind of curved, but yet communicate with the
straight lines. It's a very confusing case. They saw no
evidence of hemorrhage in those areas, so that means that
he was not bleeding. He was not his heart was
not functioning at that moment in time. So this was done.
(10:48):
This was what was referred to as a post mortem event,
you know, and we can sit here all day long
and begin to try to consider, you know, what in
the world was going through their mind when this individual
was doing all of this, you know, in the post
mortem state. Because it comes out to be a sexual assault,
(11:10):
she's actually being charged, this business person is actually being
charged in this particular circumstance. But here's a big tail
as well. And the medical examiner brought this out today
when they examined this poor young man's head that was
(11:30):
removed from the bucket. They took the head to the
medical examiner's office. The head was still very much uh congested,
to the point where the head was purple in color.
(11:51):
And what that means is that's most often associated with
in aphix year old death. Many people will say, well,
how in the world do you know that that's associated
with assoxiation. Well, in this particular case, there was a
what looks like to be a chain like something you
would see kind of a chrome chain that's used and
(12:12):
generally associated with the animals that apparently have been used
as some type of ligature around his neck. And as
blood is being essentially prevented from passing through the rest
of the body, Dave, it backs up into the head
and the head just becomes wildly congested and there's you know,
(12:36):
even in the post mortem state, there was evidence of
particular hemorrhages where the little blood vessels had burst, you know,
even along the gum line in his face, along around
his eyes, these sorts of areas. So there was a
tremendous amount of force being exerted on his body as
(12:57):
she is on top of him and I think probably
where he is faced down as she's doing this and
choking him out with this thing, and it left such
a signature. Here, here's here's probably here, here's where this
becomes problematic.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And now here's where it gets problem Joe, I'm having.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
It's very difficult, but this is the takeaway, Dave, to
give you an idea the human body has about Okay,
the next time you go to the grocery store and
you go buy milk, and you go to buy milk,
look at the gallon jug that's on the shelf, Okay,
(13:42):
and add one of those half gallon boxes to that
one gallon, and that's about the total amount of blood
that an adult male has in their body. There was
no blood left. There was no bloo blood left in
this young man's body. So you know, one of the
(14:03):
things that has come into questioning.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
This trial.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Was this a drug fueled event? And what the medical
examiner was faced with and what we normally do at
autopsy is we take a large ten gauge needle and
a ten gauge needle. Remember when you're talking about gauges,
the smaller the number, the larger the bore. Okay, So
(14:28):
a ten gauge needle is very large, and that's what
we use in the more to draw out blood out
of the order in the heart generally or to some
of the peripheral areas, and we get it directly out
of the vessels. Well, there was no blood to draw
at all in this particular case, so interestingly enough, that
(14:48):
bucket comes into play, Dave. All they had, and thank goodness,
the medical examiner was out there. All they had was
that bucket. They had to be very careful with it,
and there was a tremendous amount of blood in the
bottom of that bucket. So the medical examiner actually drew
up a sample out of that bucket and tested it. Well,
(15:11):
it came back for cocaine, for cocaine metabolite, which means
that the cocaine is actually being processed in the system.
It had been there for a while in meth, and
then you had the active ingredient from TCHC. So he
had weed on board, and then there was a nicotine.
Here's where it gets dicey, particularly from a legal standpoint.
(15:33):
How do you know what had previously been in that
bucket and could it be cross contaminated with anything else?
Because when you're looking at a red liquid substance, you
can say that that's blood if you want to, but
you're at the risk of running a fowl. With a
court and with attorneys, particularly defense attorneys, how do you
know that blood? You can't just visualize it and say,
(15:54):
because if there's anything else in that bucket, say someone
else's blood, animal blood, or what if the bucket had
been used to contain cleaning solutions, you know that you're
going to mop the floor with or do anything. Could
it be cross contaminated with anything? And that's what the
emmy was faced with.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
But well, the cocaine looked the same if it had
been ingested and was in the body versus if there
was blood in the bucket and cocaine fell in there.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow, that is an excellent question. And would there be
evidence that it could potentially if you find something like
a white powdery substance perhaps floating around on the top
that wasn't dissolved in there, which I would find highly
unlikely to happen. Yeah, and from a metabolism standpoint, it
(16:45):
is not going to appear the same as it would
if it had been processed through the body. Here's another thing.
They did find a meth pipe in the basement, and
they did find myth. As a matter of fact, when
they went to collect the meth, that picked up the
bag and meth actually poured out onto the table. Just
set your mind onto that for a second. So as
(17:09):
you can imagine, this is a very uh, disordered environment,
which is something that you see. This is a disorganized
killing and there was plenty take a long time, it
would and that's what the medical examiner pointed out in
this case. This is not something again I hate to
keep going back to this, I swear my friend, we
(17:30):
have talked about so many dismemberment cases, but you know
the one, the one element. Two elements that go into
dismemberment are tools. Do you have the appropriate tools to
do this with? Remember not too recently, I mean not
too long ago. Uh, you and I actually covered a
case of chainsaw dismemberment, which is quick, very messy, but quick. Uh.
(17:56):
And then you know you have a case like this
where you know you don't she doesn't have scalpels, but
there's evidence of cutting and sawing. And these are kitchen
knives that were being used, including something that the detectives
are referring to as a what appears to be a
pocket knife as well. So there's multiple knives that are
(18:18):
found down there. But to add some order to this, environment.
Let me kind of tell you what the medical examiner did.
They the medical examiner brought in these sterile cloths, okay,
and laid them out on the floor. And it's almost
like if you can imagine going to a garage and
(18:40):
they're taking a part of transmission or a motor, and
they've got the parts kind of organized laid out before you.
That's what they had to do with this poor man's body.
He the medical examiner, being on the scene anatomically, began
to try to organize this and could take a broad
view of what he had at the scene and what
(19:05):
might still be missing from the young man's body.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I looked up what the medical examiner said on the stand,
and he said, this is a direct quote. Now we
have decapitation, we have dismemberment, we have transsection of the torso.
And then he said, we have entered inside the body
through various cuts. The victim's organs have been removed one
(19:31):
by one. How can you tell that when you've got
body parts strewn everywhere, a body cut and half decapitated,
a foot crammed into his chest cavity, and now you
can put it all back together and tell us that
they were removed one by one.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, you can. And here let me just kind of
give you the measure of what we do in the morgue.
There's two ways that we do what's referred to as
a pro section in the morgue or an evisceration. An
in visceration is where the organs are removed from the body,
and there's two methods that are employed. You either do
it by each individual organ where we open up with
(20:13):
a classic Y shaped incision, take the breastplate off of
the body, and then we start with the heart and
the lungs, you know, we remove those, We cut through
the diaphragm, take the the liver out. Then generally we'll
go for the spleen, then the pancreas. Sometimes we'll leave
the pancreas attached to the spleen. We look for the adrenals,
(20:35):
which sits superior to the kidneys. We take those out.
Then we take both kidneys out, generally individual and you
have to make sure that the urders are still attached,
which is what you know. Urine is going to pass
through into the bladder. And then we'll go for the
bowel and we'll do all of that individually. Okay, So
there's very specific cuts that you make or incisions within
(20:58):
the body to take each organ out. Now, the second
methodology is what's referred to you I'm talking about in
a clinical sense, is what's referred to as on block
or the Rogatansky method, which is where you start all
the way up at the windpipe the trachea, and you
(21:18):
cut down the spine and you take everything out all
the way down, all the way down to the bladder,
and you just lay it out before you and it's
very intact, and that way you can appreciate all of
the anatomy outside of the body. You can kind of
expand it out, take a look at it. And that's
not what they're seeing. Apparently when the doctor did their examination,
(21:41):
this individual that was there at the scene and then
back at the morgue, and it's important that you know
that because it's the same person from beginning to end
that handles this and that's for continuity, that's what you want.
They were able to appreciate that the organs had either
been insized or excised from where they're seated in the
(22:06):
body through cuts and probably through pulling as well, almost
a ripping out, and so her hand would have had
to go into these spaces that she had opened up
and pull them out, and maybe she used a knife
to do this, or maybe she just kind of yanked
them out. But you know, kind of the exclamation point
(22:29):
on all this as you know, one final flourish, you know,
she takes his foot and stuffs it in his chest cavity.
The fact that she took this body though day and
transsected it, which if you will, if folks that are
listening to this will kind of think about how a
belt wraps around your waist, okay, and it's circumferential, which
(22:54):
means the belt goes around the body. This means that
you think about any decision that would follow a belt line,
and that's a transaction where the body is cut all
the way around and the body is essentially separated at
that point. But in the end, my question is this,
(23:20):
when it comes to taylorship business, it is being put
forth that this was drug fueled, that this was as
a result of meth usage. Are are her reactions in court?
(23:41):
Are they still myth fueled? I think that we have
to ask ourselves that you know, making a fake gun,
you know where on camera at least it appears that
she's pointing this at the judge, giggling when they begin
to talk about finding the head and this rough dissection
(24:03):
and this blood bath that has been left in her wake.
In the present context, is that matth fuel still or
is this something much more sinister. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,
and this is body bags.
Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. If you have a basement,
you know things to be looking for in your basement.
Maybe tools, maybe old furniture, maybe I don't know. In
(00:30):
my case, a man cave, never had one, always wanted one.
But the one thing you don't expect to find is
the head of your son in a bucket along with
his genitalia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave.
(00:51):
I had to reach out to you, my friend, because
I wanted to have a brief update on this trial
that is going on in Wisconsin involving Taylorship Business.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
When you sent me the video of Taylorship Business in
court making her fingers into a gun and shooting it
at the judge and laughing, I thought, Holy moly, what
is going on? And so I'd started digging into what's
happening in the courtroom with taylor'shaw business, who is standing
(01:25):
trial for the murder of her boyfriend, I guess is
what we call him. She is accused of murdering this man,
cutting his head off, gutting him, and leaving his head
in a bucket with his private parts for his mother
to find. That's where we start with this story. How
(01:45):
far do you dig the hole?
Speaker 1 (01:47):
Joe? Yeah, you know, we knew some things the you know,
I guess it was. Was it back in June? I
guess first part of June. It was that we laid
down the original case because it was so shocking to
me at that point in time. Oh my lord, I
didn't expect to hear what I heard. We've got a
succession of people that have come on the stand at
(02:08):
this point in time, including the medical examiner there in
this county that got up and testified, and let me
give you an insight, there's one quote that has come out.
It's allegedly attributed to her. Have you ever loved something
so much that you wanted to kill it? I don't
(02:29):
know what to make of that. And I've had a
lot of things that have come across my desk over
the years, and certainly things I've talked about that leave
you kind of dumbfounded. But that in and of itself
is quite striking and maybe insightful to a great degree.
But from a forensic standpoint, there's something about this case
(02:50):
that I'm very well pleased about. I've talked about previously
on body bags how forensic pathologists rarely come out tones
because there's not enough of them. There are multiple deaths
happening all the time, and the friends of pathologists generally
is back at the morgue doing examinations while the investigators
(03:11):
are out processing scenes and you know, looking into cases.
In this particular case, the medical examiner, the friends of
pathologists physically arrived at this site in Green Bay, Wisconsin
because it was just it was so fragmented. And I
mean that in a literal sense when it comes to
(03:33):
the body that from an anatomical standpoint, you have to
be able to make sense out of what you have.
It's very simple, very simple arithmetic what you have and
what you don't have. And remember, there was this cryptic statement,
and this is paraphrasing that business actually stated as she
(03:54):
was being led off in this particular case, good luck
trying to find everything. And they had a devil of
a time. And you can imagine when you walk into
a scene and you've got first off, you're starting with
the head in the bucket. And we knew at that
when we laid down the first episode that he had
(04:17):
been castrated and or at least his penis was removed.
But now there's actually this moment in time when there's
lead detective on the stand, Dave, and he is saying
that when he first observed this bucket, that keep in
mind that this poor kid's mama actually found when she
(04:37):
went down into this basement. She had Thyron is actually
living with his mother, and she goes down into the
basement because she had heard the door slam late at night,
gets up, goes down the basement, and she's looking for him.
I guess she calls out to him, and she's the
one that actually looks into the bucket and finds this.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
She he's the one that called nine to one to one.
And I'm trying to figure out if she was just
walking down there looking for something and saw the bucket
and saw the head and then covered the bucket with
a towel.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
It's hard to make heads or tails of it at
this point in time, but I do know it was
it was almost like her own way of checking for things.
She was checking on the status of her adult son
who lives with her, and she came down the staircase.
She called out to him, and this is what she discovered.
(05:35):
I don't think that she had manipulated the head anyway,
and what I mean by that put her hands on
the head, you know, as you can imagine, she ran
off in terror and called nine to one one. But
what the detective actually says is that once once this
head was discovered and they began to kind of document it,
which is what we do at the scene, that carefully
removed the head from the bucket, and he states that
(05:59):
it was at that moment time that he realized that
there were a set of male genitalia in the bucket.
So what we're talking about here is the penis and
the testicles, and what has also been described by the
medical examiner or the forensic pathologist at the scene, they
are these kind of links of torn flesh that are
(06:23):
in there as well, independent of these items, and that
goes to another part of this case that we had
no idea about.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
But what do you mean by torn flesh yet?
Speaker 1 (06:33):
Well, oh, and let me add this as well. There
were also knives found as well contained therein and there
of course blood saturated and there's what appears according to them,
a certain amount of blood in the bucket as well,
and that comes into play in this case very significantly.
(06:55):
But when you begin to examine his body. And what
the forensic pathologists made note of is that when they
began to examine his body, once they removed everything that
they had from the scene back to the autopsy suite,
it looked as though this individual had attempted to filet
(07:19):
his back. And this is something that's so over the
top relative to mutilation, you know, and even the you know,
aside from the dismemberment, you're talking about an individual that
took the time take a knife and literally peel the
skin in certain locations, primarily off the back of this
(07:41):
young man. And then these items are all deposited all
about this area down there, including organs that had, according
to the medical examiner, had been physically removed through these
really jaggedions that she had made, uh anteriorly, which means
(08:04):
on the front, through the abdomen, this sort of thing.
And you know, here here's here's kind of the kicker
that was really quite striking to me, Dave, This Shad's
right foot had been removed, it had been dismembered at
the ankle, and Dave, when the forensic pathologists did their examination,
(08:28):
they actually found they actually found the foot in this
kid's chest just let that sink in just for a moment,
that this had been done to this kid, and it
was it was just it was beyond the pale.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Please tell me that there's a way to know whether
or not this man was dead or alive when this
started taking place, the playing, the chopping off of things.
Is there a way to know?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Yeah? Yeah, And this has brought out and you know,
that's an insightful question and something that everybody wants to know,
and that's important here. If there's any kind of if
there's any kind of solace that I think that maybe
family members can take in this. According to the medical examiner,
one of the things that you're looking for when you
go for your examination, you'll refer to focal areas of hemorrhage.
(09:43):
You know, if you have an incised area and a
place that's been cut, they refer to it as an
insized area. You're looking for areas of hemorrhage in that tissue.
So just imagine that you take a knife and you
cut cut an apple. Friends, it's okay when you part
that apple if you don't completely you know, slice it
(10:04):
into and you just look at the edges of it.
That's what they do at autopsy. So when they're examining
these injuries that have been generated by the perpetrator, allegedly
that those incised areas, those linear incisions that are being
made in this case that are actually curvelin here because
they're so jagged. You've got some that are straight, some
(10:26):
that are kind of curved, but yet communicate with the
straight lines. It's a very confusing case. They saw no
evidence of hemorrhage in those areas, so that means that
he was not bleeding. He was not his heart was
not functioning at that moment in time. So this was done.
(10:48):
This was what was referred to as a post mortem event,
you know, and we can sit here all day long
and begin to try to consider, you know, what in
the world was going through their mind when this individual
was doing all of this, you know, in the post
mortem state. Because it comes out to be a sexual assault,
(11:10):
she's actually being charged, this business person is actually being
charged in this particular circumstance. But here's a big tail
as well. And the medical examiner brought this out today
when they examined this poor young man's head that was
(11:30):
removed from the bucket. They took the head to the
medical examiner's office. The head was still very much uh congested,
to the point where the head was purple in color.
(11:51):
And what that means is that's most often associated with
in aphix year old death. Many people will say, well,
how in the world do you know that that's associated
with assoxiation. Well, in this particular case, there was a
what looks like to be a chain like something you
would see kind of a chrome chain that's used and
(12:12):
generally associated with the animals that apparently have been used
as some type of ligature around his neck. And as
blood is being essentially prevented from passing through the rest
of the body, Dave, it backs up into the head
and the head just becomes wildly congested and there's you know,
(12:36):
even in the post mortem state, there was evidence of
particular hemorrhages where the little blood vessels had burst, you know,
even along the gum line in his face, along around
his eyes, these sorts of areas. So there was a
tremendous amount of force being exerted on his body as
(12:57):
she is on top of him and I think probably
where he is faced down as she's doing this and
choking him out with this thing, and it left such
a signature. Here, here's here's probably here, here's where this
becomes problematic.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And now here's where it gets problem Joe, I'm having.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
It's very difficult, but this is the takeaway, Dave, to
give you an idea the human body has about Okay,
the next time you go to the grocery store and
you go buy milk, and you go to buy milk,
look at the gallon jug that's on the shelf, Okay,
(13:42):
and add one of those half gallon boxes to that
one gallon, and that's about the total amount of blood
that an adult male has in their body. There was
no blood left. There was no bloo blood left in
this young man's body. So you know, one of the
(14:03):
things that has come into questioning.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
This trial.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Was this a drug fueled event? And what the medical
examiner was faced with and what we normally do at
autopsy is we take a large ten gauge needle and
a ten gauge needle. Remember when you're talking about gauges,
the smaller the number, the larger the bore. Okay, So
(14:28):
a ten gauge needle is very large, and that's what
we use in the more to draw out blood out
of the order in the heart generally or to some
of the peripheral areas, and we get it directly out
of the vessels. Well, there was no blood to draw
at all in this particular case, so interestingly enough, that
(14:48):
bucket comes into play, Dave. All they had, and thank goodness,
the medical examiner was out there. All they had was
that bucket. They had to be very careful with it,
and there was a tremendous amount of blood in the
bottom of that bucket. So the medical examiner actually drew
up a sample out of that bucket and tested it. Well,
(15:11):
it came back for cocaine, for cocaine metabolite, which means
that the cocaine is actually being processed in the system.
It had been there for a while in meth, and
then you had the active ingredient from TCHC. So he
had weed on board, and then there was a nicotine.
Here's where it gets dicey, particularly from a legal standpoint.
(15:33):
How do you know what had previously been in that
bucket and could it be cross contaminated with anything else?
Because when you're looking at a red liquid substance, you
can say that that's blood if you want to, but
you're at the risk of running a fowl. With a
court and with attorneys, particularly defense attorneys, how do you
know that blood? You can't just visualize it and say,
(15:54):
because if there's anything else in that bucket, say someone
else's blood, animal blood, or what if the bucket had
been used to contain cleaning solutions, you know that you're
going to mop the floor with or do anything. Could
it be cross contaminated with anything? And that's what the
emmy was faced with.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
But well, the cocaine looked the same if it had
been ingested and was in the body versus if there
was blood in the bucket and cocaine fell in there.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Wow, that is an excellent question. And would there be
evidence that it could potentially if you find something like
a white powdery substance perhaps floating around on the top
that wasn't dissolved in there, which I would find highly
unlikely to happen. Yeah, and from a metabolism standpoint, it
(16:45):
is not going to appear the same as it would
if it had been processed through the body. Here's another thing.
They did find a meth pipe in the basement, and
they did find myth. As a matter of fact, when
they went to collect the meth, that picked up the
bag and meth actually poured out onto the table. Just
set your mind onto that for a second. So as
(17:09):
you can imagine, this is a very uh, disordered environment,
which is something that you see. This is a disorganized
killing and there was plenty take a long time, it
would and that's what the medical examiner pointed out in
this case. This is not something again I hate to
keep going back to this, I swear my friend, we
(17:30):
have talked about so many dismemberment cases, but you know
the one, the one element. Two elements that go into
dismemberment are tools. Do you have the appropriate tools to
do this with? Remember not too recently, I mean not
too long ago. Uh, you and I actually covered a
case of chainsaw dismemberment, which is quick, very messy, but quick. Uh.
(17:56):
And then you know you have a case like this
where you know you don't she doesn't have scalpels, but
there's evidence of cutting and sawing. And these are kitchen
knives that were being used, including something that the detectives
are referring to as a what appears to be a
pocket knife as well. So there's multiple knives that are
(18:18):
found down there. But to add some order to this, environment.
Let me kind of tell you what the medical examiner did.
They the medical examiner brought in these sterile cloths, okay,
and laid them out on the floor. And it's almost
like if you can imagine going to a garage and
(18:40):
they're taking a part of transmission or a motor, and
they've got the parts kind of organized laid out before you.
That's what they had to do with this poor man's body.
He the medical examiner, being on the scene anatomically, began
to try to organize this and could take a broad
view of what he had at the scene and what
(19:05):
might still be missing from the young man's body.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I looked up what the medical examiner said on the stand,
and he said, this is a direct quote. Now we
have decapitation, we have dismemberment, we have transsection of the torso.
And then he said, we have entered inside the body
through various cuts. The victim's organs have been removed one
(19:31):
by one. How can you tell that when you've got
body parts strewn everywhere, a body cut and half decapitated,
a foot crammed into his chest cavity, and now you
can put it all back together and tell us that
they were removed one by one.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
Yeah, you can. And here let me just kind of
give you the measure of what we do in the morgue.
There's two ways that we do what's referred to as
a pro section in the morgue or an evisceration. An
in visceration is where the organs are removed from the body,
and there's two methods that are employed. You either do
it by each individual organ where we open up with
(20:13):
a classic Y shaped incision, take the breastplate off of
the body, and then we start with the heart and
the lungs, you know, we remove those, We cut through
the diaphragm, take the the liver out. Then generally we'll
go for the spleen, then the pancreas. Sometimes we'll leave
the pancreas attached to the spleen. We look for the adrenals,
(20:35):
which sits superior to the kidneys. We take those out.
Then we take both kidneys out, generally individual and you
have to make sure that the urders are still attached,
which is what you know. Urine is going to pass
through into the bladder. And then we'll go for the
bowel and we'll do all of that individually. Okay, So
there's very specific cuts that you make or incisions within
(20:58):
the body to take each organ out. Now, the second
methodology is what's referred to you I'm talking about in
a clinical sense, is what's referred to as on block
or the Rogatansky method, which is where you start all
the way up at the windpipe the trachea, and you
(21:18):
cut down the spine and you take everything out all
the way down, all the way down to the bladder,
and you just lay it out before you and it's
very intact, and that way you can appreciate all of
the anatomy outside of the body. You can kind of
expand it out, take a look at it. And that's
not what they're seeing. Apparently when the doctor did their examination,
(21:41):
this individual that was there at the scene and then
back at the morgue, and it's important that you know
that because it's the same person from beginning to end
that handles this and that's for continuity, that's what you want.
They were able to appreciate that the organs had either
been insized or excised from where they're seated in the
(22:06):
body through cuts and probably through pulling as well, almost
a ripping out, and so her hand would have had
to go into these spaces that she had opened up
and pull them out, and maybe she used a knife
to do this, or maybe she just kind of yanked
them out. But you know, kind of the exclamation point
(22:29):
on all this as you know, one final flourish, you know,
she takes his foot and stuffs it in his chest cavity.
The fact that she took this body though day and
transsected it, which if you will, if folks that are
listening to this will kind of think about how a
belt wraps around your waist, okay, and it's circumferential, which
(22:54):
means the belt goes around the body. This means that
you think about any decision that would follow a belt line,
and that's a transaction where the body is cut all
the way around and the body is essentially separated at
that point. But in the end, my question is this,
(23:20):
when it comes to taylorship business, it is being put
forth that this was drug fueled, that this was as
a result of meth usage. Are are her reactions in court?
(23:41):
Are they still myth fueled? I think that we have
to ask ourselves that you know, making a fake gun,
you know where on camera at least it appears that
she's pointing this at the judge, giggling when they begin
to talk about finding the head and this rough dissection
(24:03):
and this blood bath that has been left in her wake.
In the present context, is that matth fuel still or
is this something much more sinister. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan,
and this is body bags.
Host
Joseph Scott Morgan
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.