Krystal and Saagar discuss Jordan Peterson lectures Rogan on antisemitism, ICE detains US citizen for ten days, Bernie endorses Michigan Senate candidate.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
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Speaker 3 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com. Let's get over to anti Semitism. Man, so
much going on here. So, I this may be a
crazy thing to say, I think that the Douglas Murray
debate was a real moment for the discourse around the
(00:49):
Israel war with Gaza, because I think when it really showed.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So, I mean, here's the thing about Douglas Murray.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
This is somebody you know, as we know, who has
really been held up as like this intellectual explainer of
like global forces of MAGA, and he's been of course
a big defender of Israel but I think what really
showed people, you know, the bubble that he was in
whenever it came to arguing on Israel's behalf and resorting
(01:14):
to these ridiculous attacks like you've never even been to Israel.
I'm not going to attempt the accent like Rogan and others,
and to just see how sensitive and gatekeepings and storious
and just broadly like, you know, just just relying on
the worst style of argumentation to ultimately what I think
is to defend the indefensible, really broke through. It has
(01:36):
shown people both the weakness of like the pro Israel
position I think in the US, but it's also invited
now a full scale attack of even more censorship by
some of these folks who actually owe you know, a
lot of their prominence to the dissident Internet, to people
like Rogan or the podcast space, and now find themselves
(01:57):
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'd be like, no, no, no, we need to listen to
the experts.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So that's all of the context for what leads up
to this extraordinary moment of Jordan Peterson coming to Joe
Rogan's show and again resorting to Murray style tactics where
he starts to interrogate Joe about where do you draw
the line on the type of people that you come on,
and then trying to you know, basically, you know, dress
up gatekeeping and censorship in the guise of psychology and psychothropy,
(02:26):
of which he is allegedly an expert.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So let's take a listen.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
With all of that said, you also.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Set that conversation up, but it poked up and made
itself manifest in that conversation. And the issue is how
do you identify the psychopathic pretenders? And it's even worse
now and then make a barrier right now. The right
was calling for the left to do that for decades
and they didn't and they couldn't. And the left is
not good at drawing barriers, partly temperamentally. The right is
(02:55):
somewhat better, but there's no shortage of monstrosity there and
and so then the question is how do you how
do you draw the line? And that's kind of what
I was because I've been watching these right wing they're
not right wing. These psychopathic types manipulate the edge of
the conservative movement for their own gain, and a lot
(03:18):
of that's cloaked and antisemitic guys. There's plenty of anti
semitism on the left too, by the way, So it's
not unique to the.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Right partly now, yes, yes, yes, particularly now.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And so you know, you've let your curiosity guide you,
your curiosity and your desire for knowledge, this quest you've
you've let that guide you as a podcaster. And I'm,
by the way, I'm trying to work through exactly the
same sort of thing. How do you know, given your
rap radical increase in stature over the last ten years,
(03:49):
how do you know when your curiosity and even your
skepticism about the fact that things aren't the way that
people say they are, because that's certainly been demonstrated in
the last ten years.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
How do you how.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Should anyone decide what guardrails to put up? Like what
do you look for? Do you have a conceptual system
worked out for that?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Like it's so obvious what's happening here, Crystal. They can't.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It's like they have to construct these monsters that don't
even exist without arguing with the people that are in
front of them, like Dave Smith, who very cogently and
calmly dismantles Douglas Murray's every single propagandistic attempt to justify
the US support for Israel and broadly also, they're relying
(04:37):
now on the very tactics that they that they denigrated
whenever it was about racism or gen I mean, can
you imagine, you know, Jordan Peterson being like or Douglas
in some sort of great defense of the biologists who're
talking about transgend It's preposterous, preposterous, And yet they resort
to the very same tactics now whenever it's an issue
(04:59):
which they see they're literally fighting and their clawing, I think,
to maintain you know, this facade and this support. But
I mean the Internet and these laws and especially this
style of discussion, they just fall apart. And it's at
least nice to see Joe pretty skeptical, I think, especially
in Murray's case and other and others really who have noticed,
(05:20):
you know, this reversion from like free speech to censorship on.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
The film of a dime.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know, we're talking only eighteen months after a decade
of preaching the opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I mean the TLDR here with Jordan Peterson and
all of his semi incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, which is such
a freakin' pet peeve of mine. Like way through, Like
what the fuck are you even really saying right now?
Just like come out and say, just come out and say,
like I don't like that you had Ian Carroll on
or whatever your beef is, and then we can actually
deal with it. That irritates the shit out of me. Okay.
(05:51):
So if you wade through all of that, what you
can see going on in the right with the pro
Israel crowd is that they have lost the debate. They've
lost the public debate. Public support for their genocidal stance
has collapsed. The only people who still are more sympathetic
to Israel than to the Palestinians are like older Republicans.
(06:12):
Every other demographic has moved away from them. And so
when you've lost the debate, what do you have to do?
You have to say, we can't even have this conversation.
And that's to your point about the Douglas Murray piece,
that really is what came out there. He is supposed
to be the best of the best in terms of
defending the ultra Zionist position, and if even he's forced
(06:33):
to just resort to will have you been there? Then
you know they have no real arguments. And the thing
is like number one, When Jordan Peterson is accusing people
of being psychopaths in defense of a policy that is
genuinely psychopathic, which has involved the slaughter of innocent men, women, children,
(06:57):
the complete destruction of all of Gaza, the starving and
complete siege of Gasa, then you know you can see
through the holiness of his arguments here. And then the
other thing that I would say is, like, what makes
it more complicated for me is if you take that
context down, there's not nothing to what he's saying, Because
I do think there is this posture in a lot
(07:18):
of the like quote unquote independent media of you know,
we're gonna not only platform someone, but we're going to
sort of just give them unquestioning free range. And but
that isn't just these quote unquote fringe voices. That's people
like when Rogan had Andresen on and just lets them
lie and make up bullshit about the CFPB, when he
(07:38):
had Trump on and let Trump be, oh, yeah, the
election was stolen and say all kinds of like ridiculous
things with absolutely no pushback whatsoever. Ewhen Zuckerberg was on
same sort of situation. So I do think there's a
conversation to be had about not just who are you
having on, but how are we approaching this? You know,
are you just letting people use you for their own
(08:00):
propaganda victories or is there some sort of intelligent pushback
that is making people that is helping to clarify rather
than cloud the situation. And I also want to say, like, yeah,
there is a rise in anti Semitism, I think it's
oftentimes put in the wrong direction in terms of like,
(08:21):
it's entirely predictable that if we're relentlessly told all Jewish
people have to be are associated with this state of
Israel that is committing a genocide that we're all watching
unfold in real time, you know that it is going
to generate increased anti Semitism. That's still abhorrent, it still
should be condemned, but it is a real problem. But
(08:41):
obviously Jordan Peterson doesn't want to talk about or deal
with any of that. So the end result or what
his goal for the end result to be here is
just we shouldn't really be talking about this issue because
there is no real defense if you're actually dealing with
the facts of what we've all watched on.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, let's put Dave actually just had such
a good retort. Let's put this up there on the screen, please,
He says, I've always admired many things.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
About Jordan Peterson.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Okay, let's get that out of the way.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I was a bit surprised at his take on keeping
quote psychopaths away. Now I'm just a non expert comic
who's never been, but it seems sloppy for a clinical
psychologist to throw out a mass diagnosis like this. He
mentioned Groeper's as falling into this category. I certainly have
my issues. I can count on their leader to trash
me anytime, making waves. But he continues. He says, if
we are truly interested in calling out psychothapy, why not
(09:32):
start with the people dropping bombs on babies and advocating more.
How about the people about signing bombs that are on
their way out to do that. How about the people
who advocated for the last five catastrophic wars, and despite
being wrong about all of them, are advocating for the next.
Why not have one standard and apply it across the board.
And actually, to even return to something you were saying
about this whole life, just letting people talk, well, I
(09:55):
think what that drives them crazy? Peterson, Murray and these
others is that for years what they have said always
so great, you know, being able to talk, no push
back and all that I don't disagree with, you should
have pushed back against powerful people. What they are upset
about is that you're allowing that standard for people like
Dave Smith and Ian Carroll or I don't know, Kurt Metzger,
(10:18):
you know on some other voices that have been critical
of Israel. That's what drives them nuts, is that they
are getting that those people are getting to talk as
freely as them. That's what they can't stand and that's
really what they're advocating for. And Glenn made such a
good point too. Let's put his tweet please up on
the screen. He says, how come you know Remaiah oz Turk,
(10:38):
a Forig national in the US, legally is in prison
for having written an op ed critical of Israel, but
Jordan Peterson, a foreign national in the US, also here present,
legally is free to praise Israel and call Americans who
oppose it psychopaths, and somebody like Douglas Murray. Glenn continues,
I kept hearing from those who were defending the rounding
up these students for the crime of critics in Israel.
(11:00):
The guests in our countries should keep their mouths shut
and not criticize our government. But it doesn't really seem
like this principle is consistently applied at all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
And he's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, if we want to get truly national about
nationalist about it, why is this Canadian interloper coming to
our country to lecture our population about our support.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
For a foreign government.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It makes no sense, all right, And it's one also
which collapses under the weight, as you said, also of
this all this dressed up bullshit, just say, hey, Joe,
stop having on people who are critical of Israel their psychopaths,
and now we can have a conversation. Now we could
have an interesting conversation. And there was actually a very
pregnant pause whenever I think Peterson was talking about people
(11:47):
living in hell, and Rogan is like, yeah, like maybe
if you live in Gaza right now, and he just pause.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Has to skate right by it, right, Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And these all speak, you know, they speak much louder
than any of the other dressed up stuff around this.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah. Well, I mean, and here's the other context. Is
the way that this government this administration is weaponizing every
part of it, whether it's HHS, whether it's the Department
of Education, whether it's ICE, to make sure that the
(12:23):
line is enforced on this issue. And so, I mean,
the answer to Glenn's question is obvious, Like, none of
these people actually cared about censorship. None of these people
actually cared about free speech. The people who are out
there defending mockmood Khalil being locked up or Oster being
locked up for her op ed or whatever, the reason
(12:44):
they defend it is because they just don't want those
viewpoints out there. There's no consistent standard here. And so
the very people who gained so much fame and stature
for being anti woke and anti cancel culture and anti
censorship and I'm a free speech bro blah blah blah,
very few of them have anything to say about a
(13:06):
truly authoritarian crackdown on dissent when it comes to Israel.
And that crackdown, by the way, does not just stay
within the confines of that one debate.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Either.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
We know the way that the Department of Justice is
classifying any sort of like anti Tesla actions as domestic terror.
We know the way that Seb Gorka is also classifying
even hands off protesters, and you know, anyone who effectively
opposes this administration as being potential domestic terrorists or aiding
(13:40):
and embedding terrorists. People who oppose these outrageous deep ortations
with no due process, He says, they could be providing
material aid to terrorists. So you know, this is what
I think you and I have tried to be consistent
about warning about is when you have this sort of
authoritarian instinct, even if it isn't a direction of policy
that you support or whatever, there is a vast potential
(14:04):
and almost certainty that is going to creep and creep
and creep and lead to increasing authoritarian crackdown. And this
administration has taken it to a level that I don't
know when is the last time we've seen in American history.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Let's put D four up on the screen, just to
give a good example, right, like, this is something out
of an Ibrahem candy book quote. And this is again
flagged by Glenn Under new guidelines were released by the
National Institute of Health. Any medical researchers will have all
funds terminated if they support a boycott of Israel. They
can even support a boycott of any other country and
even other US states, just not israel I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Mean it says it right there.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
By accepting this grant award, recipients are certifying they do
not engage in, and will not, during the term of
their award engage in discriminary prohibited boycott, and that specifically
relates to Israeli. Come, and we're talking here about BBS.
This is a nationally enshrined BDS law, a law which
will go into effect by this administration for bi millions
of dollars in science research, which has.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Nothing to do with any of this.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And by the way, even if it did, it wouldn't matter,
and it would still be against you, against the First Amendment.
I really hope that they take these people all the
way to the Supreme Court and strike this bullshit down.
And then finally, what I really want to show people too,
is this last part. I've been laughing about this for
twenty four hours. Now, let's put this up there on
the screen. This is the level of where we're at now.
(15:26):
The New York Post quote American Jews faced a record
twenty five anti Semitic incidents per day last year quote,
more than one per hour, with most related to hatred
of Israel. So these people, this is the ADL is
genuinely claiming that American Jews are experiencing anti Semitism more
(15:49):
than once per hour. And I want to outline why
this stuff really matters even for someone like me, so
like for people who are my age in particular, grew
up in the nineties of grew up before this, like
pre awokening era. One of the things that really turned
people culturally, and especially a lot of young guys, is
exactly this type of bullshit. I'll never forget, you know,
(16:11):
Rolling Stone magazine, complete fake story.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
All I remember at the.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Time, they're like nine out of ten women they are
getting raped on college campuses.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
People were like, what, what are you even talking about?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
But you know, this is the equivocation of exactly that,
And they're taking that woke style issue and just making
up statistics in the same way that the worst BLM
activists would and then publishing it as fact and then
passing it around, you know, to create this victim complex.
And as they even note in their report, Crystal, all
(16:44):
the things that they quote are anti Semitic are just
criticisms of Israel and of a foreign government that's anti Semitism.
So then this whole thing is And by the way,
you know, as you were saying about anti Semitism and
the rise in it, well, if that's your definition, then
I'm not going to believe the damn word that you say.
I'm going to go to where I eventually came to
on these you know, incidents where someone was like, oh,
(17:06):
someone was racist to me, I'm like, listen, unless you
have it on video, I don't believe you. That's basically
where I'm at, you know, right now after this, because
we cannot trust a single word that you people are saying.
If that's your definition, and now we're shrined into law.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, that's that's right. And they give some examples here
of the supposed anti Semitic incidents that are like rally
chance in this New York Post article. But we have
another example that just unfolded over at Yale Universe. Ana
if you saw this sob or if this was popping
your timeline, so you get these tweets that say, oh,
on the campus of Yale, Jewish students are being blocked
(17:45):
from attending a lecture. Okay, well, let's talk a little
bit more about this. Who was giving this purported just lecture. Oh,
in Amar Benevier, the literal terrorist who is calling for
bombing AID depots and is like affirmatively in favor of
(18:05):
a mass genocide. It's to the right of nat Yahoo thinks,
yet Yaho has not gone far enough in terms of
starving and bombing and destroying all of Gaza. That's who's
giving the lecture. So yeah, do I think it's appropriate
to protest this apps that you want to talk about
psychopaths like that one? I feel very comfortable in diagnosing,
(18:25):
even as a non psychologist here from Afar, that dude
is an evil, psychopathic terrorist villain. If anyone deserves to
be protested, it's that guy. And they're turning those protests,
those completely righteous just protests by Yale University students into another. Oh,
(18:46):
it's an anti Semitic hate crime. That's what we're talking
about here. That's what we're talking about here. Criticism of
Israel is not anti Semitism. You are allowed to criticize
our government. You are allowed to criticize a foreign government.
You are especially to criticize a foreign government we are
supporting with our tax dollars to commit these horrific atrocities.
If you aren't doing that, then I have questions about
(19:08):
your psychopathy and your ability to emotionally relate to the
whores that are being committed in our names. And when
you insist, as the ADL does, that any attacks on
Israel an attack on all Jewish people. When you're tying
those things together, that is exactly what helps to foment
increased anti Semitism, increased actual bias because being relentlessly told
(19:34):
by the ADL and by the Jordan Peterson's of the world,
all these people that the Jewish people are synonymous with
Israel as we watch Israel commit all of these horrible, horrible,
endless atrocities. So you know, but this I do really
feel like, and I saw this quote unquote report from
the New York Post get relentlessly mocked, which is good
(19:56):
because it gives up the game of how we're ridiculous
these stats are and how much they've gained gained these stats,
And to you, to your point, Soccer like, it means
that when you do see these supposed claims of anti Semitism,
it makes me much more likely to be like, yeah, right,
I need to know the details. I don't like it
(20:16):
really underminds. If you actually care about combating genuine anti Semitism,
which is a real thing, if you actually care about
that these preposterous statistics and made up victim culture and
made up oh they've locked Jewish students, then you turn
turns out, no, this is just a protest against the genuine,
genuine psychopath. Like all of those things undermine your ability
(20:40):
to actually combat genuine hatred and bias and smears against
Jewish people. But you know that it's I do think
that the mask is sort of off on all of
this stuff. The pushback to Peterson, the pushback to Douglas Murray,
you know, the way that public sentiment has changed in
the face of what has been an extraordinary proper aganda effort.
(21:00):
I think all indicates that, you know, there has been
a seismic shift in this country, like the people of
this country's relationship to this country in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
All right, let's get to deportation.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, so there are some wild developments here. In particular,
I've been wanting to cover the story of this American citizen, Okay,
who was picked up by Ice and detained for ten days.
Again in spite of the fact this is an American citizen.
There's no reason for this person to be detained, and
everyone acknowledges that it was wrong for him to be
held for ten days. So what unfolded here, and we
(21:37):
can put this first piece up on the screen, is
Ice effectively lied about what was going on with this individual.
Judlagom here says Jose Harmacillo is a US citizen who
was wrongly jail in an immigration detention facility for ten days.
The administration says he turned himself in to the border
patrol and told them he was a Mexican who crossed
(21:59):
the border illegally. He actually Judd interviewed this person and
he says the government is lying. And here you can
see what the government's line was. They said, the narrative
being pushed around about Jose is false. On April eighth,
he approached border patrol in Tucson and stated he had
entered the US illegally through Nogalis. He said he wanted
to turn himself in and completed a sworn statement identifying
(22:20):
as a Mexican citizen who had entered unlawfully. He was
processed and appeared in court on April eleventh. Afterward, he
was held by the US Marshalls in Florence, Arizona. A
few days later, his family presented a documents showing you
as citizenship. The charges were dismissed and he was released
to his family. Their arrest was the direct result of
his own actions and statements. So, Sager, what they're asking
us to believe here is that Jose decided it would
(22:42):
be fun to go and turn himself into border patrol
and tell them that he was an undocumented immigrant who
had just crossed in from Mexico, so that he could
pull this fun little gag rank and end up in
detention with in ice detention for ten days. That's what
they want to say to believe, Okay, always preposterous. And
(23:03):
immediately there were red flags because the border patrol had
claimed they picked him up in Negallas. We click quickly
came to realize that was not true. They actually picked
him up in Tucson, which is some distance away from Nagallis. Immediately,
their narrative was very suspect. Now we're getting Jose's side
of the story. Let's put the next piece up on
the screen. So apparently he was visiting a girlfriend in Tucson,
(23:28):
had a medical incident. I think he had seizures, was
taken to a hospital, and then once he's out of
the hospital, he is not sure how to, you know,
get where he's going and sees border patrol officer thinks
this person might be able to help him, and instead
(23:49):
they don't believe him when he says he's a US citizen.
Just pick him up and have him sign this affidavit
that claims that he came into from Mexico and that
he's an undoct cocummented citizen, et cetera, et cetera. Well,
this Jose has a learning disability and is unable to read,
so we had no idea what he was signing, and
he ends up being stuck in iced attention for ten days,
(24:13):
even though he is a US citizen and zider the
part of this too, that is so important. I mean
number one again. Anytime an American citizens caught up in this,
I think everyone needs to stop and take note, especially
since it is this administration's position that you don't deserve
any sort of due process. You don't get to even
get your day in court to say, hey, here's my documents,
like here's my birth certificate, et cetera. Before being disappeared
(24:35):
into a foreign prison. But also just look at the
way they lie, like top to bottom. They will just
shamelessly make shit up and think that they can ultimately
get away with it.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's what it is for me, is you know you
you again, look, we have our many disagreements about mass
deportation and all of that, but if you're going to
do it, you have to do it in such a
way that makes sure the of credibility would the public,
and which you're not not just following the law, but
following order. And within this it's just very clear, Like
(25:08):
from the statements, and I trackt this for quite a while,
the statements were just completely incorrect, and that is what
drives me the craziest, not only of course about the
you know, not only about the detention of a US citizen,
but it is the broad precedent here where when Tricia McLaughlin,
she's a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, puts something.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Out, I'm like, I don't believe you.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I mean, this is that's really especially after all of
this El Salvador, all this El Salvador news, many of
the statements that they put out are just wrong either
about Garcia initially about the tattoos like claims which are
stated with absolute certainty and which fall apart under basic scrutiny.
(25:52):
And so people again, even if you support deportation, master portition,
et cetera, which I do, I'm going to be very
very clear about that when I see the way that
they then justify their most extraordinary actions or others even
in the future, if they're going to say this is
what happened, I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna need
again what we were just talking about with anti Semitism,
I'm gonna need to see something.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna need to.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
See video, some real documentation, maybe you know some at
this point, you know, some serious adjudication through the legal process,
because you burned your credibility with the press. And I think,
you know, we talked about the polls. A lot of people.
They gave trip a lot of leeway on immigration. They
still do actually even whenever it comes to the border
(26:34):
and border crossings. People are pretty happy about that. But
with the rest of this, I feel, you know, again,
I'm resurrecting this Vietnam era term called credibility gap. And
I think that the credibility gap here is so immense
now that it's really at a position of hey, prove it.
You know you're at this at this point because people
can't really take it seriously. A lot of what you
(26:54):
guys are saying, and there are big consequences for this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. And Judd published
the you know, the thing they had Jose sign and
you know it really like when you look at apparently
he can't he can't read, he can't write, he has
a learning disability. And when you look at even the
way he signs his name, like, I can't imagine that
they didn't realize that this is someone who was confused
(27:19):
about what was going on, who was unable to comprehend
the information that was being put in front of him.
And you know, this is far from the only disturbing
incident that we've been tracking this week. This next one
is even more disturbing. If anything, we could put this
up on the screens in The New York Times did a
deep dive into this Venezuelan. I think like Uber Eats driver,
(27:42):
Door Dash driver who was picked up while he works
a delivery job in Detroit. He picked up an order
at McDonald's. He meant to go to one address, but
accidentally got on the bridge which leads to Canada, which
is a thing that happens in Detroit because Canada is
right there, and so you can accidentally take the exit
and end up in Canada. When he tries to re
(28:03):
enter the country, he's put in detention, and he's ordered deported.
And as of the time of the writing of this
New York Times article, his friends and family could not
find him anywhere, and the US authorities would not give
them any information about where he was. He was literally
disappeared without a trace. Now, he was not on the
(28:27):
list of men who had been sent into the El
Salvador torture dungeon in prison. He was not on that list,
and again the government did not provide that list. By
the way media outlets were able to get a hold
of that list, his name was not on that list.
Ice and other government officials refused to tell his family
what had happened to him. They had no communication with
(28:48):
him whatsoever. And this is someone who was constantly checking
in with friends and family, and he has a son,
I believe, and so they felt like he was just
vanished off the face of the earth. Now after this
media report and the scrutiny, now the government has been
forced to acknowledge that oh, he actually is in that
(29:08):
El Salvador prison. But again, Soccer, just think about this.
If it wasn't for this New York Times report about
this man that just is gone, like no one would
ever have any way of knowing where he was and
what the hell happened to him, Like for his friends
and family, he had just completely been disappeared. I mean,
(29:28):
and this again just proves the point of why it
is so important that people have an ability to you know,
go have their day in court and be able to dispute,
and that the government keeps records and that we're able
to know where these people are and what is happening
to them, because without them, they can literally pick up
some DoorDash driver and he's just disappeared forever with zero recourse.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And they didn't even give us his name, They didn't
publish the names of the individual. I mean, this is
what I'm saying, you know, like it's beyond due process.
It's just one of those where you're not even attempting
to prove or to tell, and it's not even about proved.
They're not even attempting to convey there's no transparency around
the entire thing. And at this point we you and
I both know why they're not doing it because they
don't want people to be able to look into their background,
(30:12):
so they're just keeping the names people.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
So the whole thing is just completely preposterous.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We are very pleased to be joined this morning by
doctor Abdul l Sayad, who is a public health professor
and has announced a run for Senate in Michigan to
entered the Democratic primary. There great to see a doctor, Crystal.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Always a privilege to be with you today.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, my pleasure. So your run has caught a lot
of people's attention, both because of some of your bold stances,
but also we can put this up on the screen
because you are the first candidate this cycle to earn
the official endorsement of Senator Bernie Sanders, who you've supported
in the past, and you know, have a platform that
is broadly aligned with Senator Sanders positioning. You know, he
(30:59):
obviously has long now at this point been a very
significant figure in American political life, but in some ways
his reach and influence has only strengthened in Trump two
point zero. He's really entered this absolute leadership position with
the Stop Oligarchy tour. So, doctor, if you could just
tell us a little bit why you jumped in this
race and the significance of receiving Center Sanders endorsement.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
Yeah, Crystal, Look, it just shouldn't be this hard in
the richest, most powerful country in the world, just to
get by, to afford your groceries, to go see a
doctor without being afraid that you're going to go into
medical debt, to know that your kid's going to have
a good school or even childcare. To believe that you
have your job tomorrow and that that job will pay
you enough to be able to afford your home. These
(31:42):
are things that you should be able to take for
granted in our country, and you can't. And the very
people who've weaponized all of that pain are now making
it worse. Whether it's Donald Trump or doze in Elon Musk,
they are weaponizing against government to deliver to the very
people who've put us in the situation. And when I
ran into eighteen for governor, I said something that people
weren't quite ready to hear, which is that Donald Trump
(32:04):
isn't the disease. He's just the worst symptom of the disease,
and the disease is a government that has been corrupted
by the power of billionaires and corporations and oligarchs in
ways that have left them monetizing us. And I'm really
grateful to earn Senator Sanders support because he's somebody who's
recognized that guaranteeing healthcare and building an economy that works
for working people should be common sense. We shouldn't be
(32:24):
having debates about whether or not Democrats can believing these
things when this party was supposed to be built for
working people. And so both of us are about the
work of taking the party back more importantly, delivering government
that works for people. That's what I've done my whole
career as a health director in Wayne County and in Detroit,
erasing seven hundred million dollars in medical debt, making sure
kids had classes on their faces when they needed them.
That's what we need in the Senate right now, and
(32:46):
I look forward to being able to serve my state
this way.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
What is your assessment of how Democrats have responded to
this iteration of the Trump administration.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
I mean, I think you've heard it right.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
The rollover and play dead Unfortunately, that's not what we need.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
We need to fight.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
And the tough part about it is this is when
people get elected, they sometimes mistake their job as a
representative or a senator for the procedural parts.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Of the job, how you vote.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
And when they were given the opportunity to use the
procedural part of the job to stand up on that
continuing resolution, they missed that. But then, bigger picture, the
ability to show up and fight back. People want to
know that they're congress people, even if they don't have
the procedural capacity to change what government's doing or hold
Trump accountable right now, that they would if they could.
And that means being willing to call out Trump, but
(33:32):
also not just fight back, remember what you're fighting for.
And here's where the party, I think has had such
a challenge. We do this thing, Democrats of trying to
triangulate to a message that's going to make everybody happy enough, right,
so it's going to be perfectly inoffensive to the donors
who've been writing too many of those big checks that
have corrupted our government. And then we end up saying
nothing at all, but saying it with enthusiasm. And then
(33:53):
you just look ridiculous, and so for us, we've got
to go continue a conversation with the people, understand what
is causing their pain, have real clear solutions to solving it,
and then be willing to take that solution to the streets.
And I think if we do that, we win votes,
we win back power, and we can actually take that
pain and turn it into something bigger than cynicism, which
I believe is hope.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I want to talk
to you a little bit about the primary field. I
know one of your main opponents is Haley Stephens. She's
a current representative. You know, I think you would classify
as more aligned with the kind of establishment of the
Democratic Party. She's also taken some significant funding from APAC
and has been a pretty reliable pro Israel vote. So
(34:35):
I wonder you know your thoughts about how you contrast
with her, and also how much you think that Israel's
what I think you and I both agree is a
genocidal assault in Gaza. How significant that will be in
this race.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I mean, let's just step back here for a second.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
APAK is a wash in funding that has supported Donald Trump,
and if you're going to take MAGA money to try
and beat a fellow democrat.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
I just think one has to answer for that.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
I believe deeply that in our country, when you look
at our schools, you have to ask, why is it
that we ship out billions of dollars to a rich
country's military to drop bombs on other kids and their schools,
rather than investing in our own. And I just think
that's a simple question we ought to be asking, you know.
And when it comes to what's happening in Gaza, there's
no doubt that this I don't know another word for
(35:23):
what happens when you kill fifty thousand people in counting,
you render their homes unlivable, you try to push them
into another country because people in that country you speak
the same language. I don't know what word you call that.
And so for me, I just think it's common sense.
I would rather spend our money here invested in our
kids rather than killing a broad kids abroad. And I
don't think that we should be sending our money to
(35:44):
a foreign military that is committing acts that we would
never ever ever be okay, committed on our kids, and
so we deserve a lot better. And I just think
that there are open questions that need to be asked
about what happens when you take MAGA money to support
that kind of thing abroad to try and call shots
in a Democratic primary.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, and this is far from the most important question here,
But you know, I think what's being done in Gaza
is far beyond some sort of sectarian divide. We've seen
the way that especially the base of the Democratic Party
is horrified by what our tax sellers do there, whether
you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, et cetera. That being said, I
(36:24):
am curious your assessment of how your stance, which would
be the strongest stance of any senator, including Senator Sanders,
if you were able to get elected to the Senate,
how your stance is being received politically, because Michigan does
have a significant Jewish population, Michigan also obviously has a
very significant Muslim population, So I wonder what your conversations
(36:44):
with voters have been like thus far.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
No, Crystal, I don't.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
You shouldn't have to be any one religion to see
things that are obviously wrong and call them out. So
my conversation, I hope is with Michiganders of stripes, my
Jewish sisters and brothers, my Muslim sisters and brothers, my
Christian sisters and brothers, my Atheist sisters and brothers, about
the question of what we should be doing with our
tax dollars. I don't think we should be sending them
(37:11):
abroad to drop bombs on other people's children. I just
think that you shouldn't that there is no there is
no tribe, there is no ethnicity or race or religion
that should stand in the way of just seeing that.
And that's the conversation I'm hoping have. And I'll tell
you it's common sense. And so when you go and
have that conversation, despite the fact that you know there
are a lot of folks who in politics believe that
(37:33):
saying the obvious thing is verbotant, When you just have
that conversation with people, most of the time, people's heads
nod and they wonder why more people aren't saying the
same thing. So what I'm asking is that we should
be spending our money here at home. We should be
investing in our schools and our health care. And by
the way, when I go talk about an economy for
working people, when I go talk about guaranteeing people health care,
when I go talk about investing more in public schools.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
The big pushback I happen to.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Hear from folks, unfortunately in my party as well, is
that we just don't have the money to do that.
And so the question we have to ask is, okay,
so where does our money go? And unfortunately too much
of it goes abroad to do things that are not
consistent with our values or our beliefs. And so my
point is, maybe instead of spending it there to do
awful things, maybe we should be spending it here to
(38:17):
do good things. And if that's as common sense as
it sounds, it's because it is, and so it's not
very difficult to convince people of common sense.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
That's what we're trying to do here.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, I did want to get to your reaction to
some news that is breaking out in Michigan with the
understanding that it's sort of you know, early, and we
don't know all the details here, but we can put
this video obtained by Status Who's Ashley Bishop up on
the screen here. What you're watching is FBI and police
raiding homes of pro Palestine activists in and around University
(38:46):
of Michigan. There were a number of houses that experienced
these raids. The early indications are this was actually directed
by the Democratic attorney general. So I'm just curious your reaction.
You're understand ending of what this is all about, and
you know, I'd also love to hear your thoughts more
broadly on something Soger and I've been covering a lot,
(39:07):
which is this quite authoritarian crackdown on any speech and
dissent from this government's policy visa the Israel.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Yeah, Christal, I really appreciate you covering it because I
think it is the big context question we all have
to be asking. I don't know the specific details about
what perpetuated that raid. Obviously the raid was directed by
our attorney general here in Michigan. It was signed off
on by a judge. I want to understand specifically what
and why they felt like it was important to have
(39:38):
a multi jurisdictional raid where they were breaking down people's doors,
because my understanding is if it's about vandalism, usually those
kinds of raids are kept for dangerous, you know, crimes
that involve violence against people. That being said, I just
think it's important for us to zoom back out and
understand that right now we're watching as the federal government
(39:59):
as being what the against people for doing things like
signing their name to an op ed when it comes
to standing up for Palestinian rights, and they're trying to
crack down on universities because of peaceful protests in those communities.
People literally getting disappeared because they were willing to use
the freedom of speech, which is guaranteed to people in
(40:19):
our country. Citizens are not and I just think it's
really important for us to recognize that this is not normal.
And so I don't know the specifics about this case,
and I'll wait and see to see whether or not
the use of this kind of force was substantiated. But
more broadly, it is really concerning when you start seeing
our government weaponized against the freedom of speech, and that
(40:40):
should concern us all. And I think for even folks
who were not involved in the campus protests.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
If you protest anything, if.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
You're willing to send a letter to the editor of
your newspaper for something as simple as a disagreement, for example,
with the town board, does this create precedent where they
can come after you. And I worry that it does,
especially when you consider the fact that right now the
Trump administration believes that it is outside the bounds of
court orders, and so I just worry a lot about
(41:07):
what this means about our freedom of speech, and I
think we need to step up to make sure that
in these United States there is a rule of law
that is bigger than any one president or any one
law enforcement official, and that rule of law should reign
supreme do process matters, And we just need to make
sure that we are not forgetting that broader context, because
(41:28):
I worry that we're seeing people across our country and
universities being broken over this in ways that the rule
of law seems to be thrown out the window as well.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, and related to that last question I had for
you is there's a bit of a like annoying Twitter
debate playing out over how Democrats should focus their message
because obviously Trump's trade war is disastrously unpopular, his economic
approper rating has fallen off a cliff. You have a
deep concerns that he may be, you know, personally triggering
(42:02):
a mass economic crisis and recession that is going to
impact every single person in this country. At the same time,
you see those authoritarian abuses which are also terrifying for
the future of our country, things like you know, the
case of kil Mar Abrego Garcia, where he's wrongfully deported
into this Elsalvadorian basically torture dungeon, and the administration's position is, no,
(42:24):
you don't get a chance to have your day in
court and nowhere under no obligation to fix what we
even acknowledged was a mistake in shipping him off there.
And obviously he's not the only one. He's garnered the
most attention because of the Supreme Court ruling, because of
the clear cut nature of his case, But all of
the individuals who were disappeared into that prison had no recourse,
(42:44):
had no due process, had no ability to contest the
nature of not just a deportation of an imprisonment potentially
for life. So I'm curious, you know, in this debate
of you've got people, oh well, just don't really talk
about that, because Trump's on better ground with immigration and
he's on weaker ground with regard to tariffs. So that's
(43:05):
where you should be training all of your fire, and
that's a real way to defeat him and defeat what
is a horrific and I would say fascistic movement. I
was just wondering how you're thinking about those pieces. When
there are so many on a daily basis horrors to
focus on, and media space is limited to a certain degree,
(43:25):
how many things we can really train our attention to.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Yeah, look, I said a lot of things that were complicated.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
I went to bed school. This one's not that complicated.
The biggest issue I think we have right now is
that we are running scared. We're scared of what we believe.
And when you're scared of what you believe, that means
that people see it in you and they.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Don't think you believe it all that strongly.
Speaker 6 (43:47):
I think we have to stop being so afraid of
what we believe, and we can walk in chew gum
at the same time, but you have to stand up
and believe what you're saying and say it clearly, honestly
and with conviction consistently. Look, the other part of this, though,
is that you can't just say what you're against.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
I mean, this is the other part of the mistake.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
He creates such a smoke screen and you point to
that one or that one or that one, and you say,
which one of these should I focus on. Well, you
can say that they're all wrong, But more importantly, people
want to understand what your alternative is, so you cannot
be afraid of telling people.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
What you think the world ought to look like.
Speaker 6 (44:19):
And in response to Trump, who is chaotic and self
serving and ham handed, we've got opportunities to step up
and say, hey, listen, we understand that you are facing
a lot of pain, and we understand that a lot
of that could be solved by government, and also could
be made a lot worse by government when they go
after people they deport them for signing their name to
(44:41):
an op ed or they are now out of the
bounds of American courts, that could be weaponized against you.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That will make the pain a lot worse.
Speaker 6 (44:49):
And at the same time, we can take our government
and our economics back from the corporations that have rigged
the system in ways that leave you deeply, deeply insecure,
and we can guarantee you healthcare. We can talk about
all those things at the same time. We got to
stop being afraid to do so. So we have a
vision of what the world ought to be. Too often
democrats are too afraid of painting that vision because they're
(45:09):
worried about offending somebody, usually a corporate donor. So I
just think that if you're willing to say, look, that's
wrong and this is right, people will see that and say, Okay,
you know, these folks actually have a vision and they
want to work for that vision, and maybe that's a
real alternative for me.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I think that's so well said that you know all
these like let's check the polls and let's focus test it.
It's like people can see when you are trying to
pander versus you actually have a position you're willing to
fight for it, and I think that has been one
of the major downfalls of the Democratic Party in recent years. Doctor,
tell people where they can find, follow and support your campaign.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
I hope that folks will check out Abdul for Senate
dot com. Please do sign up to volunteer if you're
in Michigan, hostess at a house party, or chip us
a couple bucks, five bucks, ten bucks.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
I don't take corporate pack money, so I rely on you.
Speaker 6 (45:56):
And then if you're out of state, sign up to volunteer,
and also just check us out on socials, share our stuff,
be a part of this conversation.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
This is about more than just one election.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
It's about taking our politics back and building the kind
of America where we are true to our ideals of
a government of the people, for the people, and by
the people. And Crystal, thank you so much for the
conversations you drive every day and for having me and
allowing me to share your space today.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time out. I
know you've got a lot going on, so it's always
great to see you.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Good luck.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
We're looking forward to seeing your voice out there. Thank
you all right, guys, thanks so much for joining us today.
Sager had to run out and take care of something
real quick, but we will be back here some subset
of us, I'm not sure exactly who yet. We'll be
here for the Friday show tomorrow. I'm sure there will
be a million things for us to cover and get
to appreciate you all. Have a great day.
Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
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Speaker 3 (00:08):
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Speaker 3 (00:25):
We need your help to build the future of independent
news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints
dot com. Let's get over to anti Semitism. Man, so
much going on here. So, I this may be a
crazy thing to say, I think that the Douglas Murray
debate was a real moment for the discourse around the
(00:49):
Israel war with Gaza, because I think when it really showed.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So, I mean, here's the thing about Douglas Murray.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
This is somebody you know, as we know, who has
really been held up as like this intellectual explainer of
like global forces of MAGA, and he's been of course
a big defender of Israel but I think what really
showed people, you know, the bubble that he was in
whenever it came to arguing on Israel's behalf and resorting
(01:14):
to these ridiculous attacks like you've never even been to Israel.
I'm not going to attempt the accent like Rogan and others,
and to just see how sensitive and gatekeepings and storious
and just broadly like, you know, just just relying on
the worst style of argumentation to ultimately what I think
is to defend the indefensible, really broke through. It has
(01:36):
shown people both the weakness of like the pro Israel
position I think in the US, but it's also invited
now a full scale attack of even more censorship by
some of these folks who actually owe you know, a
lot of their prominence to the dissident Internet, to people
like Rogan or the podcast space, and now find themselves
(01:57):
on the other side.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'd be like, no, no, no, we need to listen to
the experts.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
So that's all of the context for what leads up
to this extraordinary moment of Jordan Peterson coming to Joe
Rogan's show and again resorting to Murray style tactics where
he starts to interrogate Joe about where do you draw
the line on the type of people that you come on,
and then trying to you know, basically, you know, dress
up gatekeeping and censorship in the guise of psychology and psychothropy,
(02:26):
of which he is allegedly an expert.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So let's take a listen.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
With all of that said, you also.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Set that conversation up, but it poked up and made
itself manifest in that conversation. And the issue is how
do you identify the psychopathic pretenders? And it's even worse
now and then make a barrier right now. The right
was calling for the left to do that for decades
and they didn't and they couldn't. And the left is
not good at drawing barriers, partly temperamentally. The right is
(02:55):
somewhat better, but there's no shortage of monstrosity there and
and so then the question is how do you how
do you draw the line? And that's kind of what
I was because I've been watching these right wing they're
not right wing. These psychopathic types manipulate the edge of
the conservative movement for their own gain, and a lot
(03:18):
of that's cloaked and antisemitic guys. There's plenty of anti
semitism on the left too, by the way, So it's
not unique to the.
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Right partly now, yes, yes, yes, particularly now.
Speaker 5 (03:28):
And so you know, you've let your curiosity guide you,
your curiosity and your desire for knowledge, this quest you've
you've let that guide you as a podcaster. And I'm,
by the way, I'm trying to work through exactly the
same sort of thing. How do you know, given your
rap radical increase in stature over the last ten years,
(03:49):
how do you know when your curiosity and even your
skepticism about the fact that things aren't the way that
people say they are, because that's certainly been demonstrated in
the last ten years.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
How do you how.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
Should anyone decide what guardrails to put up? Like what
do you look for? Do you have a conceptual system
worked out for that?
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Like it's so obvious what's happening here, Crystal. They can't.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
It's like they have to construct these monsters that don't
even exist without arguing with the people that are in
front of them, like Dave Smith, who very cogently and
calmly dismantles Douglas Murray's every single propagandistic attempt to justify
the US support for Israel and broadly also, they're relying
(04:37):
now on the very tactics that they that they denigrated
whenever it was about racism or gen I mean, can
you imagine, you know, Jordan Peterson being like or Douglas
in some sort of great defense of the biologists who're
talking about transgend It's preposterous, preposterous, And yet they resort
to the very same tactics now whenever it's an issue
(04:59):
which they see they're literally fighting and their clawing, I think,
to maintain you know, this facade and this support. But
I mean the Internet and these laws and especially this
style of discussion, they just fall apart. And it's at
least nice to see Joe pretty skeptical, I think, especially
in Murray's case and other and others really who have noticed,
(05:20):
you know, this reversion from like free speech to censorship on.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
The film of a dime.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know, we're talking only eighteen months after a decade
of preaching the opposite.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, I mean the TLDR here with Jordan Peterson and
all of his semi incomprehensible mumbo jumbo, which is such
a freakin' pet peeve of mine. Like way through, Like
what the fuck are you even really saying right now?
Just like come out and say, just come out and say,
like I don't like that you had Ian Carroll on
or whatever your beef is, and then we can actually
deal with it. That irritates the shit out of me. Okay.
(05:51):
So if you wade through all of that, what you
can see going on in the right with the pro
Israel crowd is that they have lost the debate. They've
lost the public debate. Public support for their genocidal stance
has collapsed. The only people who still are more sympathetic
to Israel than to the Palestinians are like older Republicans.
(06:12):
Every other demographic has moved away from them. And so
when you've lost the debate, what do you have to do?
You have to say, we can't even have this conversation.
And that's to your point about the Douglas Murray piece,
that really is what came out there. He is supposed
to be the best of the best in terms of
defending the ultra Zionist position, and if even he's forced
(06:33):
to just resort to will have you been there? Then
you know they have no real arguments. And the thing
is like number one, When Jordan Peterson is accusing people
of being psychopaths in defense of a policy that is
genuinely psychopathic, which has involved the slaughter of innocent men, women, children,
(06:57):
the complete destruction of all of Gaza, the starving and
complete siege of Gasa, then you know you can see
through the holiness of his arguments here. And then the
other thing that I would say is, like, what makes
it more complicated for me is if you take that
context down, there's not nothing to what he's saying, Because
I do think there is this posture in a lot
(07:18):
of the like quote unquote independent media of you know,
we're gonna not only platform someone, but we're going to
sort of just give them unquestioning free range. And but
that isn't just these quote unquote fringe voices. That's people
like when Rogan had Andresen on and just lets them
lie and make up bullshit about the CFPB, when he
(07:38):
had Trump on and let Trump be, oh, yeah, the
election was stolen and say all kinds of like ridiculous
things with absolutely no pushback whatsoever. Ewhen Zuckerberg was on
same sort of situation. So I do think there's a
conversation to be had about not just who are you
having on, but how are we approaching this? You know,
are you just letting people use you for their own
(08:00):
propaganda victories or is there some sort of intelligent pushback
that is making people that is helping to clarify rather
than cloud the situation. And I also want to say, like, yeah,
there is a rise in anti Semitism, I think it's
oftentimes put in the wrong direction in terms of like,
(08:21):
it's entirely predictable that if we're relentlessly told all Jewish
people have to be are associated with this state of
Israel that is committing a genocide that we're all watching
unfold in real time, you know that it is going
to generate increased anti Semitism. That's still abhorrent, it still
should be condemned, but it is a real problem. But
(08:41):
obviously Jordan Peterson doesn't want to talk about or deal
with any of that. So the end result or what
his goal for the end result to be here is
just we shouldn't really be talking about this issue because
there is no real defense if you're actually dealing with
the facts of what we've all watched on.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Yeah, I mean, let's put Dave actually just had such
a good retort. Let's put this up there on the screen, please,
He says, I've always admired many things.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
About Jordan Peterson.
Speaker 4 (09:07):
Okay, let's get that out of the way.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I was a bit surprised at his take on keeping
quote psychopaths away. Now I'm just a non expert comic
who's never been, but it seems sloppy for a clinical
psychologist to throw out a mass diagnosis like this. He
mentioned Groeper's as falling into this category. I certainly have
my issues. I can count on their leader to trash
me anytime, making waves. But he continues. He says, if
we are truly interested in calling out psychothapy, why not
(09:32):
start with the people dropping bombs on babies and advocating more.
How about the people about signing bombs that are on
their way out to do that. How about the people
who advocated for the last five catastrophic wars, and despite
being wrong about all of them, are advocating for the next.
Why not have one standard and apply it across the board.
And actually, to even return to something you were saying
about this whole life, just letting people talk, well, I
(09:55):
think what that drives them crazy? Peterson, Murray and these
others is that for years what they have said always
so great, you know, being able to talk, no push
back and all that I don't disagree with, you should
have pushed back against powerful people. What they are upset
about is that you're allowing that standard for people like
Dave Smith and Ian Carroll or I don't know, Kurt Metzger,
(10:18):
you know on some other voices that have been critical
of Israel. That's what drives them nuts, is that they
are getting that those people are getting to talk as
freely as them. That's what they can't stand and that's
really what they're advocating for. And Glenn made such a
good point too. Let's put his tweet please up on
the screen. He says, how come you know Remaiah oz Turk,
(10:38):
a Forig national in the US, legally is in prison
for having written an op ed critical of Israel, but
Jordan Peterson, a foreign national in the US, also here present,
legally is free to praise Israel and call Americans who
oppose it psychopaths, and somebody like Douglas Murray. Glenn continues,
I kept hearing from those who were defending the rounding
up these students for the crime of critics in Israel.
(11:00):
The guests in our countries should keep their mouths shut
and not criticize our government. But it doesn't really seem
like this principle is consistently applied at all.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
And he's exactly right.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, if we want to get truly national about
nationalist about it, why is this Canadian interloper coming to
our country to lecture our population about our support.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
For a foreign government.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
It makes no sense, all right, And it's one also
which collapses under the weight, as you said, also of
this all this dressed up bullshit, just say, hey, Joe,
stop having on people who are critical of Israel their psychopaths,
and now we can have a conversation. Now we could
have an interesting conversation. And there was actually a very
pregnant pause whenever I think Peterson was talking about people
(11:47):
living in hell, and Rogan is like, yeah, like maybe
if you live in Gaza right now, and he just pause.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Has to skate right by it, right, Wow.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
And these all speak, you know, they speak much louder
than any of the other dressed up stuff around this.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Yeah. Well, I mean, and here's the other context. Is
the way that this government this administration is weaponizing every
part of it, whether it's HHS, whether it's the Department
of Education, whether it's ICE, to make sure that the
(12:23):
line is enforced on this issue. And so, I mean,
the answer to Glenn's question is obvious, Like, none of
these people actually cared about censorship. None of these people
actually cared about free speech. The people who are out
there defending mockmood Khalil being locked up or Oster being
locked up for her op ed or whatever, the reason
(12:44):
they defend it is because they just don't want those
viewpoints out there. There's no consistent standard here. And so
the very people who gained so much fame and stature
for being anti woke and anti cancel culture and anti
censorship and I'm a free speech bro blah blah blah,
very few of them have anything to say about a
(13:06):
truly authoritarian crackdown on dissent when it comes to Israel.
And that crackdown, by the way, does not just stay
within the confines of that one debate.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Either.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
We know the way that the Department of Justice is
classifying any sort of like anti Tesla actions as domestic terror.
We know the way that Seb Gorka is also classifying
even hands off protesters, and you know, anyone who effectively
opposes this administration as being potential domestic terrorists or aiding
(13:40):
and embedding terrorists. People who oppose these outrageous deep ortations
with no due process, He says, they could be providing
material aid to terrorists. So you know, this is what
I think you and I have tried to be consistent
about warning about is when you have this sort of
authoritarian instinct, even if it isn't a direction of policy
that you support or whatever, there is a vast potential
(14:04):
and almost certainty that is going to creep and creep
and creep and lead to increasing authoritarian crackdown. And this
administration has taken it to a level that I don't
know when is the last time we've seen in American history.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Let's put D four up on the screen, just to
give a good example, right, like, this is something out
of an Ibrahem candy book quote. And this is again
flagged by Glenn Under new guidelines were released by the
National Institute of Health. Any medical researchers will have all
funds terminated if they support a boycott of Israel. They
can even support a boycott of any other country and
even other US states, just not israel I.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Mean it says it right there.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
By accepting this grant award, recipients are certifying they do
not engage in, and will not, during the term of
their award engage in discriminary prohibited boycott, and that specifically
relates to Israeli. Come, and we're talking here about BBS.
This is a nationally enshrined BDS law, a law which
will go into effect by this administration for bi millions
of dollars in science research, which has.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Nothing to do with any of this.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
And by the way, even if it did, it wouldn't matter,
and it would still be against you, against the First Amendment.
I really hope that they take these people all the
way to the Supreme Court and strike this bullshit down.
And then finally, what I really want to show people too,
is this last part. I've been laughing about this for
twenty four hours. Now, let's put this up there on
the screen. This is the level of where we're at now.
(15:26):
The New York Post quote American Jews faced a record
twenty five anti Semitic incidents per day last year quote,
more than one per hour, with most related to hatred
of Israel. So these people, this is the ADL is
genuinely claiming that American Jews are experiencing anti Semitism more
(15:49):
than once per hour. And I want to outline why
this stuff really matters even for someone like me, so
like for people who are my age in particular, grew
up in the nineties of grew up before this, like
pre awokening era. One of the things that really turned
people culturally, and especially a lot of young guys, is
exactly this type of bullshit. I'll never forget, you know,
(16:11):
Rolling Stone magazine, complete fake story.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
All I remember at the.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Time, they're like nine out of ten women they are
getting raped on college campuses.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
People were like, what, what are you even talking about?
Speaker 3 (16:22):
But you know, this is the equivocation of exactly that,
And they're taking that woke style issue and just making
up statistics in the same way that the worst BLM
activists would and then publishing it as fact and then
passing it around, you know, to create this victim complex.
And as they even note in their report, Crystal, all
(16:44):
the things that they quote are anti Semitic are just
criticisms of Israel and of a foreign government that's anti Semitism.
So then this whole thing is And by the way,
you know, as you were saying about anti Semitism and
the rise in it, well, if that's your definition, then
I'm not going to believe the damn word that you say.
I'm going to go to where I eventually came to
on these you know, incidents where someone was like, oh,
(17:06):
someone was racist to me, I'm like, listen, unless you
have it on video, I don't believe you. That's basically
where I'm at, you know, right now after this, because
we cannot trust a single word that you people are saying.
If that's your definition, and now we're shrined into law.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
Yeah, that's that's right. And they give some examples here
of the supposed anti Semitic incidents that are like rally
chance in this New York Post article. But we have
another example that just unfolded over at Yale Universe. Ana
if you saw this sob or if this was popping
your timeline, so you get these tweets that say, oh,
on the campus of Yale, Jewish students are being blocked
(17:45):
from attending a lecture. Okay, well, let's talk a little
bit more about this. Who was giving this purported just lecture. Oh,
in Amar Benevier, the literal terrorist who is calling for
bombing AID depots and is like affirmatively in favor of
(18:05):
a mass genocide. It's to the right of nat Yahoo thinks,
yet Yaho has not gone far enough in terms of
starving and bombing and destroying all of Gaza. That's who's
giving the lecture. So yeah, do I think it's appropriate
to protest this apps that you want to talk about
psychopaths like that one? I feel very comfortable in diagnosing,
(18:25):
even as a non psychologist here from Afar, that dude
is an evil, psychopathic terrorist villain. If anyone deserves to
be protested, it's that guy. And they're turning those protests,
those completely righteous just protests by Yale University students into another. Oh,
(18:46):
it's an anti Semitic hate crime. That's what we're talking
about here. That's what we're talking about here. Criticism of
Israel is not anti Semitism. You are allowed to criticize
our government. You are allowed to criticize a foreign government.
You are especially to criticize a foreign government we are
supporting with our tax dollars to commit these horrific atrocities.
If you aren't doing that, then I have questions about
(19:08):
your psychopathy and your ability to emotionally relate to the
whores that are being committed in our names. And when
you insist, as the ADL does, that any attacks on
Israel an attack on all Jewish people. When you're tying
those things together, that is exactly what helps to foment
increased anti Semitism, increased actual bias because being relentlessly told
(19:34):
by the ADL and by the Jordan Peterson's of the world,
all these people that the Jewish people are synonymous with
Israel as we watch Israel commit all of these horrible, horrible,
endless atrocities. So you know, but this I do really
feel like, and I saw this quote unquote report from
the New York Post get relentlessly mocked, which is good
(19:56):
because it gives up the game of how we're ridiculous
these stats are and how much they've gained gained these stats,
And to you, to your point, Soccer like, it means
that when you do see these supposed claims of anti Semitism,
it makes me much more likely to be like, yeah, right,
I need to know the details. I don't like it
(20:16):
really underminds. If you actually care about combating genuine anti Semitism,
which is a real thing, if you actually care about
that these preposterous statistics and made up victim culture and
made up oh they've locked Jewish students, then you turn
turns out, no, this is just a protest against the genuine,
genuine psychopath. Like all of those things undermine your ability
(20:40):
to actually combat genuine hatred and bias and smears against
Jewish people. But you know that it's I do think
that the mask is sort of off on all of
this stuff. The pushback to Peterson, the pushback to Douglas Murray,
you know, the way that public sentiment has changed in
the face of what has been an extraordinary proper aganda effort.
(21:00):
I think all indicates that, you know, there has been
a seismic shift in this country, like the people of
this country's relationship to this country in this conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
All right, let's get to deportation.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, so there are some wild developments here. In particular,
I've been wanting to cover the story of this American citizen, Okay,
who was picked up by Ice and detained for ten days.
Again in spite of the fact this is an American citizen.
There's no reason for this person to be detained, and
everyone acknowledges that it was wrong for him to be
held for ten days. So what unfolded here, and we
(21:37):
can put this first piece up on the screen, is
Ice effectively lied about what was going on with this individual.
Judlagom here says Jose Harmacillo is a US citizen who
was wrongly jail in an immigration detention facility for ten days.
The administration says he turned himself in to the border
patrol and told them he was a Mexican who crossed
(21:59):
the border illegally. He actually Judd interviewed this person and
he says the government is lying. And here you can
see what the government's line was. They said, the narrative
being pushed around about Jose is false. On April eighth,
he approached border patrol in Tucson and stated he had
entered the US illegally through Nogalis. He said he wanted
to turn himself in and completed a sworn statement identifying
(22:20):
as a Mexican citizen who had entered unlawfully. He was
processed and appeared in court on April eleventh. Afterward, he
was held by the US Marshalls in Florence, Arizona. A
few days later, his family presented a documents showing you
as citizenship. The charges were dismissed and he was released
to his family. Their arrest was the direct result of
his own actions and statements. So, Sager, what they're asking
us to believe here is that Jose decided it would
(22:42):
be fun to go and turn himself into border patrol
and tell them that he was an undocumented immigrant who
had just crossed in from Mexico, so that he could
pull this fun little gag rank and end up in
detention with in ice detention for ten days. That's what
they want to say to believe, Okay, always preposterous. And
(23:03):
immediately there were red flags because the border patrol had
claimed they picked him up in Negallas. We click quickly
came to realize that was not true. They actually picked
him up in Tucson, which is some distance away from Nagallis. Immediately,
their narrative was very suspect. Now we're getting Jose's side
of the story. Let's put the next piece up on
the screen. So apparently he was visiting a girlfriend in Tucson,
(23:28):
had a medical incident. I think he had seizures, was
taken to a hospital, and then once he's out of
the hospital, he is not sure how to, you know,
get where he's going and sees border patrol officer thinks
this person might be able to help him, and instead
(23:49):
they don't believe him when he says he's a US citizen.
Just pick him up and have him sign this affidavit
that claims that he came into from Mexico and that
he's an undoct cocummented citizen, et cetera, et cetera. Well,
this Jose has a learning disability and is unable to read,
so we had no idea what he was signing, and
he ends up being stuck in iced attention for ten days,
(24:13):
even though he is a US citizen and zider the
part of this too, that is so important. I mean
number one again. Anytime an American citizens caught up in this,
I think everyone needs to stop and take note, especially
since it is this administration's position that you don't deserve
any sort of due process. You don't get to even
get your day in court to say, hey, here's my documents,
like here's my birth certificate, et cetera. Before being disappeared
(24:35):
into a foreign prison. But also just look at the
way they lie, like top to bottom. They will just
shamelessly make shit up and think that they can ultimately
get away with it.
Speaker 3 (24:44):
That's what it is for me, is you know you
you again, look, we have our many disagreements about mass
deportation and all of that, but if you're going to
do it, you have to do it in such a
way that makes sure the of credibility would the public,
and which you're not not just following the law, but
following order. And within this it's just very clear, Like
(25:08):
from the statements, and I trackt this for quite a while,
the statements were just completely incorrect, and that is what
drives me the craziest, not only of course about the
you know, not only about the detention of a US citizen,
but it is the broad precedent here where when Tricia McLaughlin,
she's a spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, puts something.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
Out, I'm like, I don't believe you.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
I mean, this is that's really especially after all of
this El Salvador, all this El Salvador news, many of
the statements that they put out are just wrong either
about Garcia initially about the tattoos like claims which are
stated with absolute certainty and which fall apart under basic scrutiny.
(25:52):
And so people again, even if you support deportation, master portition,
et cetera, which I do, I'm going to be very
very clear about that when I see the way that
they then justify their most extraordinary actions or others even
in the future, if they're going to say this is
what happened, I'm like, I don't know, I'm gonna need
again what we were just talking about with anti Semitism,
I'm gonna need to see something.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna need to.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
See video, some real documentation, maybe you know some at
this point, you know, some serious adjudication through the legal process,
because you burned your credibility with the press. And I think,
you know, we talked about the polls. A lot of people.
They gave trip a lot of leeway on immigration. They
still do actually even whenever it comes to the border
(26:34):
and border crossings. People are pretty happy about that. But
with the rest of this, I feel, you know, again,
I'm resurrecting this Vietnam era term called credibility gap. And
I think that the credibility gap here is so immense
now that it's really at a position of hey, prove it.
You know you're at this at this point because people
can't really take it seriously. A lot of what you
(26:54):
guys are saying, and there are big consequences for this stuff.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yeah, no, there's no doubt about it. And Judd published
the you know, the thing they had Jose sign and
you know it really like when you look at apparently
he can't he can't read, he can't write, he has
a learning disability. And when you look at even the
way he signs his name, like, I can't imagine that
they didn't realize that this is someone who was confused
(27:19):
about what was going on, who was unable to comprehend
the information that was being put in front of him.
And you know, this is far from the only disturbing
incident that we've been tracking this week. This next one
is even more disturbing. If anything, we could put this
up on the screens in The New York Times did a
deep dive into this Venezuelan. I think like Uber Eats driver,
(27:42):
Door Dash driver who was picked up while he works
a delivery job in Detroit. He picked up an order
at McDonald's. He meant to go to one address, but
accidentally got on the bridge which leads to Canada, which
is a thing that happens in Detroit because Canada is
right there, and so you can accidentally take the exit
and end up in Canada. When he tries to re
(28:03):
enter the country, he's put in detention, and he's ordered deported.
And as of the time of the writing of this
New York Times article, his friends and family could not
find him anywhere, and the US authorities would not give
them any information about where he was. He was literally
disappeared without a trace. Now, he was not on the
(28:27):
list of men who had been sent into the El
Salvador torture dungeon in prison. He was not on that list,
and again the government did not provide that list. By
the way media outlets were able to get a hold
of that list, his name was not on that list.
Ice and other government officials refused to tell his family
what had happened to him. They had no communication with
(28:48):
him whatsoever. And this is someone who was constantly checking
in with friends and family, and he has a son,
I believe, and so they felt like he was just
vanished off the face of the earth. Now after this
media report and the scrutiny, now the government has been
forced to acknowledge that oh, he actually is in that
(29:08):
El Salvador prison. But again, Soccer, just think about this.
If it wasn't for this New York Times report about
this man that just is gone, like no one would
ever have any way of knowing where he was and
what the hell happened to him, Like for his friends
and family, he had just completely been disappeared. I mean,
(29:28):
and this again just proves the point of why it
is so important that people have an ability to you know,
go have their day in court and be able to dispute,
and that the government keeps records and that we're able
to know where these people are and what is happening
to them, because without them, they can literally pick up
some DoorDash driver and he's just disappeared forever with zero recourse.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
And they didn't even give us his name, They didn't
publish the names of the individual. I mean, this is
what I'm saying, you know, like it's beyond due process.
It's just one of those where you're not even attempting
to prove or to tell, and it's not even about proved.
They're not even attempting to convey there's no transparency around
the entire thing. And at this point we you and
I both know why they're not doing it because they
don't want people to be able to look into their background,
(30:12):
so they're just keeping the names people.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
So the whole thing is just completely preposterous.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We are very pleased to be joined this morning by
doctor Abdul l Sayad, who is a public health professor
and has announced a run for Senate in Michigan to
entered the Democratic primary. There great to see a doctor, Crystal.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
Always a privilege to be with you today.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yeah, my pleasure. So your run has caught a lot
of people's attention, both because of some of your bold stances,
but also we can put this up on the screen
because you are the first candidate this cycle to earn
the official endorsement of Senator Bernie Sanders, who you've supported
in the past, and you know, have a platform that
is broadly aligned with Senator Sanders positioning. You know, he
(30:59):
obviously has long now at this point been a very
significant figure in American political life, but in some ways
his reach and influence has only strengthened in Trump two
point zero. He's really entered this absolute leadership position with
the Stop Oligarchy tour. So, doctor, if you could just
tell us a little bit why you jumped in this
race and the significance of receiving Center Sanders endorsement.
Speaker 6 (31:22):
Yeah, Crystal, Look, it just shouldn't be this hard in
the richest, most powerful country in the world, just to
get by, to afford your groceries, to go see a
doctor without being afraid that you're going to go into
medical debt, to know that your kid's going to have
a good school or even childcare. To believe that you
have your job tomorrow and that that job will pay
you enough to be able to afford your home. These
(31:42):
are things that you should be able to take for
granted in our country, and you can't. And the very
people who've weaponized all of that pain are now making
it worse. Whether it's Donald Trump or doze in Elon Musk,
they are weaponizing against government to deliver to the very
people who've put us in the situation. And when I
ran into eighteen for governor, I said something that people
weren't quite ready to hear, which is that Donald Trump
(32:04):
isn't the disease. He's just the worst symptom of the disease,
and the disease is a government that has been corrupted
by the power of billionaires and corporations and oligarchs in
ways that have left them monetizing us. And I'm really
grateful to earn Senator Sanders support because he's somebody who's
recognized that guaranteeing healthcare and building an economy that works
for working people should be common sense. We shouldn't be
(32:24):
having debates about whether or not Democrats can believing these
things when this party was supposed to be built for
working people. And so both of us are about the
work of taking the party back more importantly, delivering government
that works for people. That's what I've done my whole
career as a health director in Wayne County and in Detroit,
erasing seven hundred million dollars in medical debt, making sure
kids had classes on their faces when they needed them.
That's what we need in the Senate right now, and
(32:46):
I look forward to being able to serve my state
this way.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
What is your assessment of how Democrats have responded to
this iteration of the Trump administration.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
I mean, I think you've heard it right.
Speaker 6 (32:57):
The rollover and play dead Unfortunately, that's not what we need.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
We need to fight.
Speaker 6 (33:02):
And the tough part about it is this is when
people get elected, they sometimes mistake their job as a
representative or a senator for the procedural parts.
Speaker 4 (33:10):
Of the job, how you vote.
Speaker 6 (33:11):
And when they were given the opportunity to use the
procedural part of the job to stand up on that
continuing resolution, they missed that. But then, bigger picture, the
ability to show up and fight back. People want to
know that they're congress people, even if they don't have
the procedural capacity to change what government's doing or hold
Trump accountable right now, that they would if they could.
And that means being willing to call out Trump, but
(33:32):
also not just fight back, remember what you're fighting for.
And here's where the party, I think has had such
a challenge. We do this thing, Democrats of trying to
triangulate to a message that's going to make everybody happy enough, right,
so it's going to be perfectly inoffensive to the donors
who've been writing too many of those big checks that
have corrupted our government. And then we end up saying
nothing at all, but saying it with enthusiasm. And then
(33:53):
you just look ridiculous, and so for us, we've got
to go continue a conversation with the people, understand what
is causing their pain, have real clear solutions to solving it,
and then be willing to take that solution to the streets.
And I think if we do that, we win votes,
we win back power, and we can actually take that
pain and turn it into something bigger than cynicism, which
I believe is hope.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
Yeah, I completely agree with that. I want to talk
to you a little bit about the primary field. I
know one of your main opponents is Haley Stephens. She's
a current representative. You know, I think you would classify
as more aligned with the kind of establishment of the
Democratic Party. She's also taken some significant funding from APAC
and has been a pretty reliable pro Israel vote. So
(34:35):
I wonder you know your thoughts about how you contrast
with her, and also how much you think that Israel's
what I think you and I both agree is a
genocidal assault in Gaza. How significant that will be in
this race.
Speaker 4 (34:48):
I mean, let's just step back here for a second.
Speaker 6 (34:50):
APAK is a wash in funding that has supported Donald Trump,
and if you're going to take MAGA money to try
and beat a fellow democrat.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
I just think one has to answer for that.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
I believe deeply that in our country, when you look
at our schools, you have to ask, why is it
that we ship out billions of dollars to a rich
country's military to drop bombs on other kids and their schools,
rather than investing in our own. And I just think
that's a simple question we ought to be asking, you know.
And when it comes to what's happening in Gaza, there's
no doubt that this I don't know another word for
(35:23):
what happens when you kill fifty thousand people in counting,
you render their homes unlivable, you try to push them
into another country because people in that country you speak
the same language. I don't know what word you call that.
And so for me, I just think it's common sense.
I would rather spend our money here invested in our
kids rather than killing a broad kids abroad. And I
don't think that we should be sending our money to
(35:44):
a foreign military that is committing acts that we would
never ever ever be okay, committed on our kids, and
so we deserve a lot better. And I just think
that there are open questions that need to be asked
about what happens when you take MAGA money to support
that kind of thing abroad to try and call shots
in a Democratic primary.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, and this is far from the most important question here,
But you know, I think what's being done in Gaza
is far beyond some sort of sectarian divide. We've seen
the way that especially the base of the Democratic Party
is horrified by what our tax sellers do there, whether
you're Christian, Muslim, Jewish, et cetera. That being said, I
(36:24):
am curious your assessment of how your stance, which would
be the strongest stance of any senator, including Senator Sanders,
if you were able to get elected to the Senate,
how your stance is being received politically, because Michigan does
have a significant Jewish population, Michigan also obviously has a
very significant Muslim population, So I wonder what your conversations
(36:44):
with voters have been like thus far.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
No, Crystal, I don't.
Speaker 6 (36:49):
You shouldn't have to be any one religion to see
things that are obviously wrong and call them out. So
my conversation, I hope is with Michiganders of stripes, my
Jewish sisters and brothers, my Muslim sisters and brothers, my
Christian sisters and brothers, my Atheist sisters and brothers, about
the question of what we should be doing with our
tax dollars. I don't think we should be sending them
(37:11):
abroad to drop bombs on other people's children. I just
think that you shouldn't that there is no there is
no tribe, there is no ethnicity or race or religion
that should stand in the way of just seeing that.
And that's the conversation I'm hoping have. And I'll tell
you it's common sense. And so when you go and
have that conversation, despite the fact that you know there
are a lot of folks who in politics believe that
(37:33):
saying the obvious thing is verbotant, When you just have
that conversation with people, most of the time, people's heads
nod and they wonder why more people aren't saying the
same thing. So what I'm asking is that we should
be spending our money here at home. We should be
investing in our schools and our health care. And by
the way, when I go talk about an economy for
working people, when I go talk about guaranteeing people health care,
when I go talk about investing more in public schools.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
The big pushback I happen to.
Speaker 6 (37:56):
Hear from folks, unfortunately in my party as well, is
that we just don't have the money to do that.
And so the question we have to ask is, okay,
so where does our money go? And unfortunately too much
of it goes abroad to do things that are not
consistent with our values or our beliefs. And so my
point is, maybe instead of spending it there to do
awful things, maybe we should be spending it here to
(38:17):
do good things. And if that's as common sense as
it sounds, it's because it is, and so it's not
very difficult to convince people of common sense.
Speaker 4 (38:24):
That's what we're trying to do here.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
Yeah, I did want to get to your reaction to
some news that is breaking out in Michigan with the
understanding that it's sort of you know, early, and we
don't know all the details here, but we can put
this video obtained by Status Who's Ashley Bishop up on
the screen here. What you're watching is FBI and police
raiding homes of pro Palestine activists in and around University
(38:46):
of Michigan. There were a number of houses that experienced
these raids. The early indications are this was actually directed
by the Democratic attorney general. So I'm just curious your reaction.
You're understand ending of what this is all about, and
you know, I'd also love to hear your thoughts more
broadly on something Soger and I've been covering a lot,
(39:07):
which is this quite authoritarian crackdown on any speech and
dissent from this government's policy visa the Israel.
Speaker 6 (39:17):
Yeah, Christal, I really appreciate you covering it because I
think it is the big context question we all have
to be asking. I don't know the specific details about
what perpetuated that raid. Obviously the raid was directed by
our attorney general here in Michigan. It was signed off
on by a judge. I want to understand specifically what
and why they felt like it was important to have
(39:38):
a multi jurisdictional raid where they were breaking down people's doors,
because my understanding is if it's about vandalism, usually those
kinds of raids are kept for dangerous, you know, crimes
that involve violence against people. That being said, I just
think it's important for us to zoom back out and
understand that right now we're watching as the federal government
(39:59):
as being what the against people for doing things like
signing their name to an op ed when it comes
to standing up for Palestinian rights, and they're trying to
crack down on universities because of peaceful protests in those communities.
People literally getting disappeared because they were willing to use
the freedom of speech, which is guaranteed to people in
(40:19):
our country. Citizens are not and I just think it's
really important for us to recognize that this is not normal.
And so I don't know the specifics about this case,
and I'll wait and see to see whether or not
the use of this kind of force was substantiated. But
more broadly, it is really concerning when you start seeing
our government weaponized against the freedom of speech, and that
(40:40):
should concern us all. And I think for even folks
who were not involved in the campus protests.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
If you protest anything, if.
Speaker 6 (40:47):
You're willing to send a letter to the editor of
your newspaper for something as simple as a disagreement, for example,
with the town board, does this create precedent where they
can come after you. And I worry that it does,
especially when you consider the fact that right now the
Trump administration believes that it is outside the bounds of
court orders, and so I just worry a lot about
(41:07):
what this means about our freedom of speech, and I
think we need to step up to make sure that
in these United States there is a rule of law
that is bigger than any one president or any one
law enforcement official, and that rule of law should reign
supreme do process matters, And we just need to make
sure that we are not forgetting that broader context, because
(41:28):
I worry that we're seeing people across our country and
universities being broken over this in ways that the rule
of law seems to be thrown out the window as well.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
Yeah, and related to that last question I had for
you is there's a bit of a like annoying Twitter
debate playing out over how Democrats should focus their message
because obviously Trump's trade war is disastrously unpopular, his economic
approper rating has fallen off a cliff. You have a
deep concerns that he may be, you know, personally triggering
(42:02):
a mass economic crisis and recession that is going to
impact every single person in this country. At the same time,
you see those authoritarian abuses which are also terrifying for
the future of our country, things like you know, the
case of kil Mar Abrego Garcia, where he's wrongfully deported
into this Elsalvadorian basically torture dungeon, and the administration's position is, no,
(42:24):
you don't get a chance to have your day in
court and nowhere under no obligation to fix what we
even acknowledged was a mistake in shipping him off there.
And obviously he's not the only one. He's garnered the
most attention because of the Supreme Court ruling, because of
the clear cut nature of his case, But all of
the individuals who were disappeared into that prison had no recourse,
(42:44):
had no due process, had no ability to contest the
nature of not just a deportation of an imprisonment potentially
for life. So I'm curious, you know, in this debate
of you've got people, oh well, just don't really talk
about that, because Trump's on better ground with immigration and
he's on weaker ground with regard to tariffs. So that's
(43:05):
where you should be training all of your fire, and
that's a real way to defeat him and defeat what
is a horrific and I would say fascistic movement. I
was just wondering how you're thinking about those pieces. When
there are so many on a daily basis horrors to
focus on, and media space is limited to a certain degree,
(43:25):
how many things we can really train our attention to.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Yeah, look, I said a lot of things that were complicated.
Speaker 6 (43:31):
I went to bed school. This one's not that complicated.
The biggest issue I think we have right now is
that we are running scared. We're scared of what we believe.
And when you're scared of what you believe, that means
that people see it in you and they.
Speaker 4 (43:45):
Don't think you believe it all that strongly.
Speaker 6 (43:47):
I think we have to stop being so afraid of
what we believe, and we can walk in chew gum
at the same time, but you have to stand up
and believe what you're saying and say it clearly, honestly
and with conviction consistently. Look, the other part of this, though,
is that you can't just say what you're against.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
I mean, this is the other part of the mistake.
Speaker 6 (44:05):
He creates such a smoke screen and you point to
that one or that one or that one, and you say,
which one of these should I focus on. Well, you
can say that they're all wrong, But more importantly, people
want to understand what your alternative is, so you cannot
be afraid of telling people.
Speaker 4 (44:17):
What you think the world ought to look like.
Speaker 6 (44:19):
And in response to Trump, who is chaotic and self
serving and ham handed, we've got opportunities to step up
and say, hey, listen, we understand that you are facing
a lot of pain, and we understand that a lot
of that could be solved by government, and also could
be made a lot worse by government when they go
after people they deport them for signing their name to
(44:41):
an op ed or they are now out of the
bounds of American courts, that could be weaponized against you.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
That will make the pain a lot worse.
Speaker 6 (44:49):
And at the same time, we can take our government
and our economics back from the corporations that have rigged
the system in ways that leave you deeply, deeply insecure,
and we can guarantee you healthcare. We can talk about
all those things at the same time. We got to
stop being afraid to do so. So we have a
vision of what the world ought to be. Too often
democrats are too afraid of painting that vision because they're
(45:09):
worried about offending somebody, usually a corporate donor. So I
just think that if you're willing to say, look, that's
wrong and this is right, people will see that and say, Okay,
you know, these folks actually have a vision and they
want to work for that vision, and maybe that's a
real alternative for me.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
I think that's so well said that you know all
these like let's check the polls and let's focus test it.
It's like people can see when you are trying to
pander versus you actually have a position you're willing to
fight for it, and I think that has been one
of the major downfalls of the Democratic Party in recent years. Doctor,
tell people where they can find, follow and support your campaign.
Speaker 6 (45:45):
I hope that folks will check out Abdul for Senate
dot com. Please do sign up to volunteer if you're
in Michigan, hostess at a house party, or chip us
a couple bucks, five bucks, ten bucks.
Speaker 4 (45:53):
I don't take corporate pack money, so I rely on you.
Speaker 6 (45:56):
And then if you're out of state, sign up to volunteer,
and also just check us out on socials, share our stuff,
be a part of this conversation.
Speaker 4 (46:03):
This is about more than just one election.
Speaker 6 (46:04):
It's about taking our politics back and building the kind
of America where we are true to our ideals of
a government of the people, for the people, and by
the people. And Crystal, thank you so much for the
conversations you drive every day and for having me and
allowing me to share your space today.
Speaker 2 (46:17):
Well, I really appreciate you taking the time out. I
know you've got a lot going on, so it's always
great to see you.
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Good luck.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
We're looking forward to seeing your voice out there. Thank
you all right, guys, thanks so much for joining us today.
Sager had to run out and take care of something
real quick, but we will be back here some subset
of us, I'm not sure exactly who yet. We'll be
here for the Friday show tomorrow. I'm sure there will
be a million things for us to cover and get
to appreciate you all. Have a great day.
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