April 28, 2022 • 44 mins
Novel series author Julia Quinn and Director Alex Pillai return to break down the second half of the weekend fanfare at the Bridgerton family’s country home in Episode 4, “Victory.” Host Gabrielle Collins guides us through Daphne and Anthony’s role reversal, the impact of the Sharma sisters, and how Eloise and the other women of the Bridgerverse use their superpowers.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a partnership between Shondaland Audio
and iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your exclusive
peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. Before we
meet our guests this week, here's a brief freecap of
episode two oh four. Victory, still hopeful about her upcoming engagement.
(00:21):
Duena pushes Kate and Anthony to get along and has
their feelings for each other's surface. They share a tender
moment in the library, but Anthony's already made up his
mind and proposes to Aduena right before her carriage leaves.
This week, host Gabrielle Collins welcomes back director Alex Pillay
and Bridgerton novel series author Julia Quinn to pick up
where they left off on episode two oh four. Alex Pillay,
(00:50):
once again, I really loved episodes two oh three and
two oh four. It just really sets off whatever everything
that happens afterwards. Well, I mean, can you say, to
be given those two episodes, Gabby was a dream. Not
only did I love the show, to then be given
basically it's kind of a weak country house party at
(01:10):
Aubury Hall. The whole thing starts with the Sharma's arriving
and ends with Sharma's leaving, and that's a set pieces.
It's almost like a two part episode, it is, and
certainly we talked about it a lot like that. Obviously,
in the second part we have the whole arrival, with
the party's arriving and of course finally with the ball.
But the whole din emma over it is what is
(01:32):
Anthony going to do? Is he actually going to propose?
Is he actually going to make any movement at all?
Has he made the right decision? And his sister, of course,
plays fantastically by Phoebe. Yeah, you know, Daphne's then arrives
and in season two when she comes back in the
(01:54):
episodes three and four, well, she's the now of the
one who can comment on him and actually asking very specifically,
a is here making the right choice, you know, with
Edwina or is there something else? Is there something else
getting on with his relationship with Kate? She sniffed it out,
She sniffed it out. I mean, you know, obviously it's
(02:15):
one of those things that we're at well ahead of
the characters on. You know, we're well ahead of both
Kate and Anthony. We kind of go, well, they hate
each other so much, they've gotta love each other. Yeah,
you know, And of course no. Phoebe is a very,
very clever actor. I love her non spoken acting, her
(02:35):
facial expressions, her body language. I'm like, what did Alex
have to do with this? Because there's so much of
it throughout oh three and O four. Well, I won't
take too much credit. I mean, I'm the director, but
Phoebe is a stall and she's so subtle, so subtle,
and we were working, working our way towards that extraordinary
(02:56):
scene where she finds Kate and Anthony about to kiss
from her angler probably looks like they're kissing and Anthony
storms out after it. There is obviously something between you
and I know that this is not as your wish,
but you must be honest with yourself because one way
(03:16):
or another, these kind of feelings always have a way
of coming to the surface. And what kind of feelings
are love? And that's the very first time Anthony realizes
what it is that he's been feeling. He thought it
was annoyance. He thought the reason is blood temperature started
(03:37):
to rise and his heartreat started to race, was because
he hated this woman, but actually no, actually he loves
her Julia Quinn. Maybe the fans recognize this as like
the moment where it becomes evident to Anthony that Kate
is like exactly maybe what he's looking for in a mate,
(03:58):
and also very evident to Daphne, like she's like in
the show, she's like watching the interactions and just kind
of picking up on this like very visceral like chemistry.
So I'm like, maybe this is the moment where that
kind of crystallizes for onlookers. Oh, I think he's stupid.
I don't think he figured it out yet, but Daphne did.
(04:19):
For sure, Daphne knew it really, so I think he
needed a little more or or he was but couldn't
admit it to himself. Oh my gosh. And I wondered
that very much, like is Anthony fighting it or is
he just he fights it all the way because he
you know, he he's made up his mind what he
(04:41):
wants to do, and he's not somebody who likes to
second guess himself once he makes up his mind. Oh
I see that now he's pretty proud, okay, because I
feel like it's so obvious and maybe that's maybe that
is for the viewer to just be like, Anthony, what
is wrong with you? Like what he's feeling is a
forbidden love. A forbidden love is a love that we
(05:04):
know to be true and we know to be honest,
we know to be pure, but someone is telling us
we can't feel. And in this case, it's all to
do with the etiquette of marriage. You can't be willing
one woman but actually falling in love with a system,
you know, that's a huge social no no. But in
our present world, we know exactly what forbidden love is.
(05:28):
You know, we live in countries relatively free, hopefully, where
people can fall in love with people, but of course
in other parts of the world, and I think unfortunately,
you can look at the record of this. I think
there's one hundred and fifty six countries where gay love is,
for example, illegal, right, and many of those countries it's
(05:49):
more than illegal, it's punishable in the most severe ways.
And I think there's just something amazing that Phoebe does,
which a film a proper film star does, is make
her donald reversal. So when she said, but Anthony, you're
in love, I felt when I was filming that, I
said I said to Phoebe, you have just spoken to
every single man or woman, trans person or whoever about
(06:14):
what love's really about. It's about honesty and understanding your
feelings completely honestly and being yourself. And wow, she hammered
at home it was about Anthony Kate, but it was
about everyone. I hope watching it's certainly about me. I
hope it was about you because she did that for me,
(06:36):
and I will forever thank her for that performance in
that room because I thought, Wow, Phoebe, you're something special. Yeah,
there's just this little, tiny moment where she's talking to
Violet Bridgerton as they're preparing for their big swire, their
big ball, and they're talking about Anthony and kind of
(06:56):
suspecting like Anthony would want to be with someone that
was more like him, and Violet like says something and
turns away. But it's just the way Daphne like looks
at Violet and then looks away and looks back. It's
just so subtle. I can't put my finger on it,
but it's just such a I think it's just very human,
(07:17):
Like I feel like she's not acting, you know, she
herself has got in a different situation from season one.
I mean, I'm sure everyone's noticed this. She's coming in
as as a duchess, and she's got a certain amount
of power. She's got wall say. So, you know, we're
talking again about the position of women in this time.
(07:39):
So as Daphne comes into her episode, she's already got
a status that is higher than in season one. Yeah.
I mean also she's got more life experiences now, a
whole new little human. Like, she's married, Like she brings
a lot to the table. She brings a huge amount
of the table. In fact, me, Daphne and Jonathan Johnny
(08:02):
talked a huge amount about actually how between season one
and season two their relationship is kind of turned around.
So in season one, Johnny's character, Anthony's very much almost
bullying her. Yeah, and she kind of has to take it.
I mean they're very close. I'm not saying that as characters,
but he has a dominant effect on her. I was
(08:26):
going to ask you if that is something. Is that
part of Anthony's development and or lack of development. So
when Phoebe puts the gauntlet down, she says, you know,
I'm paraphrasing it all the time. I'm not closing the
script but she says, you should do the right thing,
you should have the guts to do the right thing,
and you know what, he doesn't, and that, of course,
(08:48):
hopefully keeps the ball rolling. It brings us back to
find out what's going to happen next. But there is
a great sense of failure for Anthony at the end
of this. It's fantastic for Edwina. It's tragic for Kate,
who has realized herself that she loves Anthony. But he
fails or does it? I mean, you know that's I mean,
(09:09):
I feel he fails. The weird thing is, Gabby, we're
talking about this in a very serious manner, and there
are some very sad and extraordinary scenes in these two episodes,
but it's also wildly entertaining. And the thing is that
you can't make something wildly entertaining unless you understand what
the serious bits of it are about. You have to
(09:29):
make it real, emotionally real, and then you can have fun.
You can have fun with the ball. You know, when
we've got orchestral versions of modern day music. You know,
when you've got you know, extraordinary choreography that is quite
modern actually and is based on rumbas or dancers that
(09:50):
weren't around at that time, and we have a great
laugh with them, and actually, you know, most of the
time we weren't laughing on set. It was fun. But
what roots it all are these things about the position
of women in the era and about the in some
ways that are freeing ourselves of the necessity to look
at people's skin tone and judge them their characters on that.
(10:12):
And these two very serious things undermine what is actually
the most wonderful wish fulfillment, which is this show. We'll
be right back. Welcome back to Bridgerton the official podcast.
(10:34):
So we've been introduced to the Sharmas. I don't know
what to ask you about them, really, just like, what
do you think the Sharmas are perfect? Let's just put
that way. They are. You know, in the books they
were the Sheffield and I love the way the show
kept the name Sheffield in there. I think that was
really sweet. Now they're the Sharmas, which I love. And
(10:56):
you know I've said this before, I probably I probably
said it to you last year. I love the way
Shandiland has taken this thing I created and expanded it
and they did it in a way that I personally
could not have done just on my own. And I
think that's one of the beauties of television, which is
(11:18):
such a collaborative medium. You have so many people involved,
you know, with a book, it's me and you know,
my editor and I you know, I can bring to
it my imagination and my lived experiences, and you know
there are limits to that and limits to what I
can do well. You know, I would love to write
(11:42):
more about characters coming from India, but I want to
make sure I can do it well and in a
way that is not harmful to somebody, in a way
that doesn't necessarily perpetuate a stereotype that I don't even
know exists. I mean, that's the thing, you know. I
love that with the Sharmas, you know, because there were
(12:03):
so many people involved who could bring bits of them
and their knowledge to it, They're able to create and
expand the world in a way that is very authentic
and has own voices. I know that one of the
writers of this season is she's Indian American, and I
know that she was very involved with writing the Sharma
(12:25):
Sisters and bringing some per experiences to it to keep
it really authentic. And I love that. What a creative
way to like bring in other parts of the globe.
And I mean we also have Jack Featherington coming from
the Americas. There's like a lot of newcomers. You take
it away with H three and No. Four. Bridgeton is
(12:46):
a romance, It's fantastic. Is about people falling in love.
Is something we've all experienced or want to experience, and
therefore it's a kind of lovely wish fulfilment. But something
very special that Shanda has brought to this show is
the fact that people of color are cast and playing
in it as if really all it is about is
(13:07):
human beings. And I'm British. You can hear from my accent.
I was born in Newcastle upon Tyne in Great Britain
and I started working for the BBC at a young age.
But I'm of Indian and British extraction, so my mother's English,
my father is from South India, and I was never
able to portray my own background in this historical context.
(13:30):
I made quite a number of films TV shows starring
contemporary shows with people of color from Britain and particularly
from my Asian and Indian background, but in historical dramas
I got into any number of bits of hot water
we've produced when I said, can we just have someone
of color in this drama? And they just wouldn't go
(13:50):
for it. They would always say, oh, no, no, no,
there were no people of color in Britain at this time,
which of course is nonsense by the way. And what
was so startling when Chris Van Dewson was in touch
with me in October twenty twenty and he showed me
the first few episodes and we talked sort of talked
about season two and I was just astonished and gratified
(14:13):
and inspired to see people that look like me and
look like my friends in a historical drama. And no
one once said, what's that Joe Ando doing in this?
She can't be Lady Danbury. But yeah, you know what,
she's had Joe, and she's one of the most royal
people and regal people I've ever met. And it was
(14:34):
so exciting. And I said to Chris, this is way
back in October. I didn't know anything about season two.
I said, this is amazing. I said, the one thing
that's slightly missing is that, of course, at that time,
Great Britain had had a huge number of trade and
indeed legal connections with India. I mean there was East
India company ran the country basically. When I say ran
(14:55):
and actually mean robbed millions of pounds from it, I
think middle of the Victorian era, two hundred million pounds contemporaneously,
we're being taken from India. So put that into day's context.
Was that two hundred billion anyway, what was believed and
brought back to Great Britain and maybe Britain great actually,
(15:17):
And so he said to me, well, now we're going
to send you some scripts for season two, and lo
and behold in season two the Sheffield to become the Charmers,
and suddenly the whole world, a real world, opened up
of that connection between Great Britain and the subcontinent of India.
(15:37):
Because it's a romance. We're making the very best of that,
we're making the very best of what could have been
if only, if only that humanity had been around at
that time. So what could have been is what you
see on screen, and the Shamas are exactly that wish fulfilment, saying, yes,
(15:59):
if the wasn't in the real world being this awful
kind of conflict and to give it the proper word
racism and of course in schondaland there isn't in chandaland
people of people. Women are people of equal statue to
the men, which is fantastic. And to me it was
(16:20):
it was like, I can can't tell you, Gabby was
like coming home to a dream. And there was a
point from the filming. It's in episode three. I think
our main characters are arriving at the bridges and country
estate Abrey Hall. Yeah, Abery Hall. And we were filming
in a carriage and I put my head through the
carriage to just give the usual directions. And there was Adua,
(16:43):
and there was Shelley con there was Charifa Chandrant and
there was Simone Ashley and I look around It's like, wow,
these are four women of color. They are four women
of color in regency empire cut dresses that on. It's
the weeks that all looking amazing, and they weren't incident
(17:04):
thought they were our lead characters. And I've stuck my
head through the carriage window. I look around and I
was it's a British phrase this for your non British listeners.
I was gossmatched and means I couldn't think of a
word to say, and I said, I said, I am
looking at a vision that I've had in my head
(17:24):
for twenty five years, and I'm looking at it right now.
And you are the most important things in this episode,
and you've been driven to Aubrey Hall. You've got to
turn the world upside down. You've got to turn Anthony's
world upside down. And I'm so excited to be filming
with you. He will be assessing me, I know, considering
(17:47):
how I might perform as my countess, and he should
not be the only one you two must consider if
Lord Bridgeton is everything you wanted a match as were Indeed,
we should all pass the week with open minds. I
should be the very pitch of any ability show. The
Charmer Sisters at heart, they're the Sheffield Sisters, I wrote.
(18:10):
I mean they're what's inside of them is the same,
isn't that something? Yeah? Kate is Kate and Edwina is Edwina. Yes,
and that's just what's amazing is that, you know, it
just goes to show you that you know people. You
know we're not the same because everybody's different, but at
heart we want the same things and we have the
same characteristics and we may have different experiences and different cultures,
(18:34):
but the types of things that you know, shape our
minds and our hearts and our wants and our goals.
Those echo around the world. And both the actresses, Simone
Ashley and cher Chandrin are just brilliant in the roles.
There's a moment in I think it's I think it's
the second episode when Anthony has this big thing and
(18:58):
he says, I can't say poetry, I can only be
myself a man of action whatever, and the camera goes
on Edwina's face while she's looking at him, and it's
amazing because you know, Edwina could be this character that
could seem like nothing but a foil for Kate, and
(19:21):
cherry Cho brings so much more to it. You just
see in her face right there, you know her the
quiet intelligence that she has too that is just you know,
she's used to being a bit overshadowed by her older
sister and like letting her older sister take the lead.
And and then of course with you know Kate, I mean,
(19:42):
Simone brings so much fierceness to it. So I just
those two actresses are absolutely amazing, and they really brought
to the four everything I was trying to do with
this set of sisters. I just I could not be happier.
And what you said about Edwina's quiet intelligence is so true, Like, like,
(20:03):
I learned so much more about Edwina when she's not
speaking and like looking at someone while they're speaking. Sharita
really did bring that out in Edwena. I love that
so much. I love that. Yeah, Kate definitely still has
that bite in the show. One of the ways that
she exhibits that same kind of undercurrent of just like
(20:25):
I'm like two steps ahead is like the tea and
not liking the tea, but she's she's very I can't
put my finger on it, but she's very not passive,
a little passive, aggressive, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah.
And another thing I love about the character of Kate
(20:45):
is her interactions with Lady Danbury, which, yes, that's new
to the show, but it brings out a part of
her character which I was really trying to do in
the book too, which is this this woman who's used
to being the smartest person in the room and she
usually is the smartest person in the room, and learning
(21:07):
to be the smartest person in the room without being
like a jerk is a skill, and there are a
couple times when you know, she crosses the line into
being kind of you annoying about being the smartest person
in the room, and Lady Danbury is just having none
of it. And so Kate gets to learn too, I
think she does. So Kate was basically acting along the
(21:28):
lines of like, I'll be okay, I'll be by myself
and I'll have my wealth and I don't need all
of this, and Danbury is like, you want to be me,
but you can't be me because I have lived and
I have loved. Kate also has a moment of self reflection,
and then you see throughout the show Kate like slightly
annoyed by the Lady Danbury, but towards the middle of
(21:54):
the season she kind of loosens up and heeds what
Lady Danbury says. She like at least takes it in. Well,
you know, this brings me back to one of my
life lessons recently. Just one of the smartest things you
can do is to recognize when people know more than
you do. There are people, I mean, I think I'm
a fairly smart, intelligent person, but I recognize when other
(22:15):
people know more about certain things than I do, And
so with Bridgerton, there were a whole host of people
who knew more about making a television show than I did.
And the fact that they wanted to start off with
my characters and my story was such an honor. But
I'm just going to say go with it. I trust
you guys. You are smart, you know what you're doing,
and that's what Kate needs to learn from. Lady Danbury
(22:35):
is wait a minute. You know, this woman's been the
leader of the ton for how many years? Who am
I to come in here and try to tell her
how to do it? I mean, if I were Lady Danbury,
I would have lost it with her way sooner than that. Yeah,
she was pretty patient. Yeah, since we're talking about them,
there's just this other moment, and it's this universal moment
(22:57):
where Kate is oiling Edwina's scalp, which I just I
love that so much. It's just such an intimate moment.
It's just such it was just so good. I just
love that little detail. You must know you did nothing wrong.
(23:17):
I must have done something. The rest of the town
are now set to join us in the country. Surely,
if the Viscount were to propose he would have done
it by now, Yes, what if I have missed my chance, Edwina.
Perhaps I should have found out more about the Bridgetons,
I should have known more about the interest. I should
(23:39):
have been better. I mean, the thing is in many cultures,
but very specifically in Indian culture, the oiling of hair
is a thing that a mother does with a daughter,
or a sister does with a sister, and he is
actually an expression of love, tenderness, tenderness and love. And
(24:01):
of course to come at this moment where Anthony has
just failed at the dinner party, at the dinner table
to propose to her, so she's heartbroken, and to then
have her hair treated so tenderly, it's really upsetting, of course,
(24:22):
and brings the emotions, the upset out for Edwina. And
Therethra really, I think channel that I hope you feel
that she did shot very simply, and really it was
a matter of knowing the situation and allowing those two
wonderful actors to work their way through it. And you know,
(24:44):
while you're there two actors very quiet set This was
quiet and might add and just encouraging to go one
more time or enlarge on a specific thing they were
doing or look they were doing and just keeping the
cameras running to Okay, someone, let's just take it back
to the beginning and we're going to go that again
(25:04):
this time kneel down at this line or because I've
felt something very special there, and you know, when you're
doing those intimate scenes, they are very very satisfying if
we all feel that we're in an intimate and an
honest situation where they can show me what they feel.
And I hope they did, and I think they did.
(25:25):
Thank you for taking us inside to describe how you
all brought that off of the page. And I thank
you because I feel like some things like that can
get lost and they may not resonate with some viewers,
but for me, that was just like, I know, this experience,
you know that was incredible. The fact if you recognize that,
(25:46):
whether it's something from your own expiace or just the
tenderness between these two women, you recognized and I recognized it.
You know, I've never actually had my hair oiled ever,
but I think I'm going to go out and get
it done. Play someone and ask please, you have to
(26:06):
just sit down, let someone part your hair and massages
gals so nice, so so nice. Yeah. One of the
things I really want to talk about is Kate Charma's
disdain for English tea. I can talk about it. Got
some Earl gray right here, Yeah there you there, you go.
(26:28):
Well that's the thing. We're in the bridges and tea land,
so we've got to talk about tea. What we call
in England tea is served the Chinese way, which is
boiling water, leaves strained. That's tea, and then you add
milk later and a bit of sugar if your taste
go that way. Now in India, you get your tea,
(26:50):
you get some water, you get some milk, you get
some sugar or jaggery. This is called so it's kind
of crystalline sugar, and you get some spices and you
boil it all up and it's called chai. You know,
we meets her, we're just having a laugh about it.
Really setting you know this this this week week ineffectual
English tea because if you if I went to my
aunt's house in Chennai and she is boiling up chai,
(27:14):
it's pretty strong. It's been boiling rages and it's sweet
and it's milky, and it is quite a different drink really,
and so we did the best we can because she
couldn't do that. All she could do was bring a few.
So we had clothes, We had cardamon, which is my
own personal favorite spice and does make them as a
wonderful tea, whether you boiling milk up in it or
(27:35):
just have it black. It just it's a lovely, lovely
set of spices. And that's all that was. It was
just she brings a pouch of this of these tea
with her as a reminder of home. I really enjoyed that,
and I just I love how snarky she is throughout
about the tea that is available. I think that's just
(27:58):
so funny. I guess. I also just really loved that
it was. There was this idea in the show that
you've got the Sharma's coming from India, but they know
the game, like they're not like coming up, you know,
and into this society. They are very much part of it,
(28:18):
just living somewhere else. Yeah, although I think a lot
of it is unfamiliar to them, just because even if
you know, the mother was very squarely of that world
and she, you know, according to society, married down. I
think the father, who is not in the show was
a clerk maybe yeah, but she comes back. She's very
(28:38):
much of this world and they are. They are being
brought into society, society by Lady Danbury, so nobody can
question there. They're bona fides, but I think it is
still a culture shock for them. I think high society
in India, I think, I think you're from Bombay, I
think is still quite different than high society in London.
The hardest thing actually for Simone and Cerithra, whom and
(29:00):
he lives either the majority of their lives in England
or born there, is actually they creative an accent without
their dialect coach to give a very accurate, what I
believe is a very accurate rendition of someone who was
born in present day Mumbai and has learned English impeccably.
But they've still got a bit of an accent. So
(29:20):
those accents they speak in the show are manufactured and practiced,
and to my ear, they were perfect. So someone might
tell me different, but they worked so hard on them. Wow, yeah,
don't speak like that. That's such a great little tid bit.
I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean really hard, because
it's it's another layer between them and their acting and
(29:42):
so and you know what, they never ever let it
get in the way. Yeah. So, speaking about the South
Indian background, I got a tip that the costume department
made it a point to try to bridge a decades
long history of Indian fashion into the imagined regency Ara fashion,
to blend those together to create the palettes and colors
(30:06):
and designs for the Sharma costumes. The something of that.
I mean, they don't wear Indian costumes, but the fact
is that Indian fabrics were essential to British costumes of
the here's a Muslim. The Paisley pattern is called Paisley
which is in Scotland, but actually it's a pattern from
what in those days was called the Northwest Frontier, but
(30:28):
essentially Pakistan and Afghanistan. It's a specific pattern. So all
that was integrated as much as possible. Wow, we'll be
right back, welcome back. I had to rewatch oh three
and oh four, like more than twice to make sure
(30:50):
I was seeing what I was seeing and hearing what
I was hearing. And there's a point where Eloise says
you wish to be entertained when she's set up to
dance with someone, which I feel like it's a very
chandland thing, like I wish to be entertained. I think
he was more a comment on the fact that as
a young woman she's supposed to perform for a potential suitor,
(31:15):
and that's in the middle of the ball and a
man that violence thinks is suitable because he's also a
bit difficult like her, And of course what he is,
he's actually a bit of a bit of a chauvinist,
and he doesn't believe that women can do anything. And
he immediately puts her back up. And when he says that,
(31:35):
of course she storms out. And it is that's an
extraordinary performance from from Claudia and in d from roots
as always, Eloise, is what I invited, Lord Morris, specifically
for you. He's nothing to share your rebellious spirit, my rebellion.
It is not some party dress epost want to play
(31:57):
a part, mamma, And it is certainly not some accomplishment
I have developed, like singing or painting to help me
attract to suit. It I no I am a disappointment
to you, so just allow me to take my leave
and go to bed. Up until this point I thought
we had seen Claudia be you know Eloise in full effect,
(32:19):
but in that moment I'm like, oh, this is Eloise,
Like she's really tormented. She's not just the odd the
black sheep, so to say, over the family. She's really tormented. Yeah,
she's not a comedy character, though she is very funny
because she's such a witty person. In Claudia I believe
has has been always a stand up comedian, so she's
(32:41):
she's quite a bit of comedy stuff and she's such
a delightful person in reality, of course, but no, she's
feeling the pain of being a woman in the early
nineteenth century, where you are pretty judged on the men
or the man you're married too, and you're worth is
judged on that, not on who you are, and she
(33:02):
can't stand it. It's almost like she's she's got a
vision of the future and knows that she'll never be
part of it. Claudia plays the character of Eloise with
such intelligence, with such an ironic view the male idiots
around her who have the opportunity to do everything. So
in fact, Benedict rather played by Luke Thompson, gets into
(33:23):
an art college. He's got the chance to do that,
and of course the other Newton, who plays Colin Bridgeton,
has been all around Europe. He's being on the ground
tour port. Eloise has been stuck at home with her books,
and you know, we talked an awful lot between the
three of us about that power dynamic, about the opportunities
that they've had and have wasted in a way, and
(33:46):
about the opportunities that Eloise has been denied. Colin has
been abroad, learned nothing and actually wants to return to Marina.
Benedict has got into art school, but I'm not sure.
He's not sure what he really wants out of life.
You know, it's exciting, but he's got problems with drink.
(34:08):
Where he'll go, we don't know. Speaking of Marina, that
is also one of my other favorite series of moments.
The actress's performance was so ruthless. She has handled Colin
like a ragdar. Throughout my travels, I kept pondering how
(34:28):
I left things between us, all of those terrible things
I said to you, Colin, There is no need. I
want you to know that I'm sorry and that I
forgive you as well. I do not need your apology
any more than I desire your forgiveness. All of this
you and I is in the past, but do not
look at your life and wonder what may have been
(34:49):
if we had conducted ourselves differently. That is a fool's
form of torture. I have left the past behind. You
should do the same. There's a big faction of people
who are like for Marina and not for Marina, and
so I guess what were your conversations like our conversations
were fantastic, are really open. Ruby Barker is a lovely, lovely,
(35:15):
intelligent actor and wanted to play this from a position
of strength, and we absolutely talked about that. Colin as
she says, you're a little boy. You're projecting things on
me that aren't me. You need to grow up and
you need to look at the person who really loves you,
my Penelope. And it's a tough thing to say, because
(35:37):
this boy has come all the way to her married
life and tried to tell her that her marriage is
no good and she says, no, Actually, listen, I've got
a big house, I've got a two children. My husband
will take care of me and he respects me, and
that's pretty good for a woman in that era, you know.
(35:57):
And I need to be saved. I was like, oh
my goodness, yeah, you know, And so part of our
rehearsal process is understanding with me and Ruby and Luke,
understanding completely what we want to achieve in those scenes.
And then, as I said, letting them loose and we're
in Westwickcombe Park. Most amazing this is, I might add,
(36:21):
here's another little secret. The room that father gave birth
in was over on the other side of the hallway,
but on our side we were in Marina's new house.
Oh wow, you know, she had the freedom, I hope,
to express herself. And of course there's that terrible look
of regret when connin Fanny does go yeah, you know,
(36:44):
very small, very subtle, and I think kind of she's
been strong. She's told him he's a boy, but actually
he's still got the best. He's had the best of opportunities,
and he's thrown them all the way. I now feel
like he was a little presumptuous. He went to see
totally Marina. You know. I'm like, oh, I just really
(37:04):
loved at that moment because it just reinforces where these
women are actually coming from, Like they know they're in
this society, but they have opinions, and I feel like
we see that more of this season, and I think
this is the other reason Bridge is so successful. Every
scene is about how women who have no power, or
(37:25):
very little power, or very small narrow corridors of movement
are able to manipulate their world and make the most
of it. There is a commonality between the troubles of
people of color and women in the world today. And indeed,
the approach I had was really about how they all
(37:46):
use their cleverness, that personality to push that through. You know,
whether you're talking about that lady Featherington, who of course
only has she's got no money, but she's got this
extraordinary termination to push through things, whether it's Eloise for example,
with her fantastic intellect, or you've got Penelope, who of
(38:07):
course is completely powerless, but actually she has great power
again through the power of her mind, the ability to
have created her newsletter and to put it out there.
And I would say to Nicola a Copland and playing Penny,
I said, you know, she's got a superpower, like she's
actually invisible. She hears stuff and then she puts it
(38:30):
out there. And if that was a Marvel movie, she
would have a superpower. I don't know what she would
be called. I might leave that to you or your
listeners to work out what Penny's Marvels superhero re name
would be, but it would be something amazing, and she'd
still be dressed into her citrus outfit. In some ways,
that it was about seeing what the superpower was in
(38:51):
each of these women. That was important to me because
a superpower in things like the Marvel universe are really
bad things that you have to keep secret. If everyone new,
then they would be compromised, they would actually be trapped.
It's a hugely entertaining to see someone who is an
underdog actually triumph against the forces against them. And you
(39:13):
know that alone is enough to bring me to the
show and hopefully bring all our listeners today as well.
They are determined to carve out as much power as
they can. Yeah, you know that they know that they're
not going to They're not going to be the ones
to overthrow the patriarchy. It's just we're too far back
(39:34):
for that. And I think it's important to write about
the women who pulled out the bricks so that other
women can knock down the wall. Because this is the
time period that I've chosen to write in. You know,
we're we're we're still a few generations away from women's
suffrage and you know, even more general rations away from
you know what we think of now as feminism. But
somebody's got to start the process. And that's what these
(39:55):
women are doing. And you know, it would be unrealistic
of me to write them as as the women like
running over the wall. It's just we weren't there yet historically.
But I can write these women who are grabbing power
and nurturing power where they can, and that's what I
(40:16):
want to do. And then I get to I get
to say it's part of the Bridger Verse, which my son,
who was like into like Marble movies and stuff, is like,
you are not allowed to say that, mom, That is
not cool. You're going too far if you start talking
about the Bridger Verse. That is really cute. Hold on,
I have to write that down. The Bridger Verse. Everyone
(40:38):
loves Newton. Do you want to give a shout out
to the little dog actor who played Newton? I don't know.
I was surprised at how many people were like, yay
for Newton. I was yeah. When when those stills were
released and people saw that there was a corgy in
one of the photos. That was all anybody could talk about. Yeah,
I think there were so many readers who were so
afraid Newton wouldn't be in the show. Newton's big moment
(41:02):
in the books did not make it into the show.
Newton had like a very pivotal moment in the books,
but still just the fact that he's there. I think
book readers would have been very disappointed if Newton weren't.
And here's to Newton, Here's to the CORGI I know,
and that I learned when the book came out that
Corgis were not called Corgis. Then, Oh, I can't even
(41:24):
remember the details except that, like I got slacked down
by the Historical Accuracy Police about Corey's existing but not
being called Corgis, and I you know, I think I
may have actually put that on my website. I have
a section for every single book there's like about the
(41:47):
inside the story it's called, and I have the background information,
and it's got stuff about various research stuff and things
I got wrong, and like if there's inside jokes for readers,
let's see here. Oh, here we go. I will not
read you from my website. Regular readers know that I
(42:08):
love to include animals in my books. Newton the Overweight
Corgie was modeled after Homer, a very friendly Corgi who
lived on My street. Corgies, while not an officially recognized
breed in Britain until the nineteen twenties, originated in Wales
during the Middle Ages. Corgies are also very popular with
the Royal family. Queen Elizabeth's dogs are Doorgies, which are
Corgi docs and mixes. I maybe I saw this on
(42:29):
your site. Yes, that Inside the Story I'm sure is
a result of people like getting all upset with me
calling them corgies since they were not recognized breed until
in eighteen twenties. But it is a fun thing for
if you are one of my readers, please come to
the website and every every single book has a page,
and every single book page has a section called inside
the Story which has these fun little tidbits about the
(42:52):
booking once again schooling us, letting us in, and I
could talk to you about characters and your like inspiration
for hours. Literally, Well, thank you, and you're just such
a pleasure to speak to. Alex Play. Thank you so
(43:13):
much for your time and your candor and letting us
inside you're ahead. Thank you so much, Gaby. You've been
incredibly generous as a hust and you know, I'm really
really looking forward to everyone's reactions, and i know I'm
sure many of them positives. So I'm looking forward to
thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
(43:35):
the world of Bridgerton. Next week, host Gabrielle Collins will
be joined by Tom Verica, director and head of Creative
Production at Shondaland, and Simone Ashley, who plays Kay Charma.
If you're enjoying this show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review. And if you haven't finished
binging Bridgerton on Netflix, please go do that so you
can enjoy all of the juicy spoilers with us. Bridgerton.
(43:57):
The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Aley, Lauren Holman,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Jonny Bridgerton. The Official Podcast is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you
(44:19):
subscribe to your favorite shows.
Bridgerton The Official Podcast is a partnership between Shondaland Audio
and iHeartRadio. Welcome to Bridgerton the Official Podcast, your exclusive
peak behind the curtain of Shondaland's Bridgerton series. Before we
meet our guests this week, here's a brief freecap of
episode two oh four. Victory, still hopeful about her upcoming engagement.
(00:21):
Duena pushes Kate and Anthony to get along and has
their feelings for each other's surface. They share a tender
moment in the library, but Anthony's already made up his
mind and proposes to Aduena right before her carriage leaves.
This week, host Gabrielle Collins welcomes back director Alex Pillay
and Bridgerton novel series author Julia Quinn to pick up
where they left off on episode two oh four. Alex Pillay,
(00:50):
once again, I really loved episodes two oh three and
two oh four. It just really sets off whatever everything
that happens afterwards. Well, I mean, can you say, to
be given those two episodes, Gabby was a dream. Not
only did I love the show, to then be given
basically it's kind of a weak country house party at
(01:10):
Aubury Hall. The whole thing starts with the Sharma's arriving
and ends with Sharma's leaving, and that's a set pieces.
It's almost like a two part episode, it is, and
certainly we talked about it a lot like that. Obviously,
in the second part we have the whole arrival, with
the party's arriving and of course finally with the ball.
But the whole din emma over it is what is
(01:32):
Anthony going to do? Is he actually going to propose?
Is he actually going to make any movement at all?
Has he made the right decision? And his sister, of course,
plays fantastically by Phoebe. Yeah, you know, Daphne's then arrives
and in season two when she comes back in the
(01:54):
episodes three and four, well, she's the now of the
one who can comment on him and actually asking very specifically,
a is here making the right choice, you know, with
Edwina or is there something else? Is there something else
getting on with his relationship with Kate? She sniffed it out,
She sniffed it out. I mean, you know, obviously it's
(02:15):
one of those things that we're at well ahead of
the characters on. You know, we're well ahead of both
Kate and Anthony. We kind of go, well, they hate
each other so much, they've gotta love each other. Yeah,
you know, And of course no. Phoebe is a very,
very clever actor. I love her non spoken acting, her
(02:35):
facial expressions, her body language. I'm like, what did Alex
have to do with this? Because there's so much of
it throughout oh three and O four. Well, I won't
take too much credit. I mean, I'm the director, but
Phoebe is a stall and she's so subtle, so subtle,
and we were working, working our way towards that extraordinary
(02:56):
scene where she finds Kate and Anthony about to kiss
from her angler probably looks like they're kissing and Anthony
storms out after it. There is obviously something between you
and I know that this is not as your wish,
but you must be honest with yourself because one way
(03:16):
or another, these kind of feelings always have a way
of coming to the surface. And what kind of feelings
are love? And that's the very first time Anthony realizes
what it is that he's been feeling. He thought it
was annoyance. He thought the reason is blood temperature started
(03:37):
to rise and his heartreat started to race, was because
he hated this woman, but actually no, actually he loves
her Julia Quinn. Maybe the fans recognize this as like
the moment where it becomes evident to Anthony that Kate
is like exactly maybe what he's looking for in a mate,
(03:58):
and also very evident to Daphne, like she's like in
the show, she's like watching the interactions and just kind
of picking up on this like very visceral like chemistry.
So I'm like, maybe this is the moment where that
kind of crystallizes for onlookers. Oh, I think he's stupid.
I don't think he figured it out yet, but Daphne did.
(04:19):
For sure, Daphne knew it really, so I think he
needed a little more or or he was but couldn't
admit it to himself. Oh my gosh. And I wondered
that very much, like is Anthony fighting it or is
he just he fights it all the way because he
you know, he he's made up his mind what he
(04:41):
wants to do, and he's not somebody who likes to
second guess himself once he makes up his mind. Oh
I see that now he's pretty proud, okay, because I
feel like it's so obvious and maybe that's maybe that
is for the viewer to just be like, Anthony, what
is wrong with you? Like what he's feeling is a
forbidden love. A forbidden love is a love that we
(05:04):
know to be true and we know to be honest,
we know to be pure, but someone is telling us
we can't feel. And in this case, it's all to
do with the etiquette of marriage. You can't be willing
one woman but actually falling in love with a system,
you know, that's a huge social no no. But in
our present world, we know exactly what forbidden love is.
(05:28):
You know, we live in countries relatively free, hopefully, where
people can fall in love with people, but of course
in other parts of the world, and I think unfortunately,
you can look at the record of this. I think
there's one hundred and fifty six countries where gay love is,
for example, illegal, right, and many of those countries it's
(05:49):
more than illegal, it's punishable in the most severe ways.
And I think there's just something amazing that Phoebe does,
which a film a proper film star does, is make
her donald reversal. So when she said, but Anthony, you're
in love, I felt when I was filming that, I
said I said to Phoebe, you have just spoken to
every single man or woman, trans person or whoever about
(06:14):
what love's really about. It's about honesty and understanding your
feelings completely honestly and being yourself. And wow, she hammered
at home it was about Anthony Kate, but it was
about everyone. I hope watching it's certainly about me. I
hope it was about you because she did that for me,
(06:36):
and I will forever thank her for that performance in
that room because I thought, Wow, Phoebe, you're something special. Yeah,
there's just this little, tiny moment where she's talking to
Violet Bridgerton as they're preparing for their big swire, their
big ball, and they're talking about Anthony and kind of
(06:56):
suspecting like Anthony would want to be with someone that
was more like him, and Violet like says something and
turns away. But it's just the way Daphne like looks
at Violet and then looks away and looks back. It's
just so subtle. I can't put my finger on it,
but it's just such a I think it's just very human,
(07:17):
Like I feel like she's not acting, you know, she
herself has got in a different situation from season one.
I mean, I'm sure everyone's noticed this. She's coming in
as as a duchess, and she's got a certain amount
of power. She's got wall say. So, you know, we're
talking again about the position of women in this time.
(07:39):
So as Daphne comes into her episode, she's already got
a status that is higher than in season one. Yeah.
I mean also she's got more life experiences now, a
whole new little human. Like, she's married, Like she brings
a lot to the table. She brings a huge amount
of the table. In fact, me, Daphne and Jonathan Johnny
(08:02):
talked a huge amount about actually how between season one
and season two their relationship is kind of turned around.
So in season one, Johnny's character, Anthony's very much almost
bullying her. Yeah, and she kind of has to take it.
I mean they're very close. I'm not saying that as characters,
but he has a dominant effect on her. I was
(08:26):
going to ask you if that is something. Is that
part of Anthony's development and or lack of development. So
when Phoebe puts the gauntlet down, she says, you know,
I'm paraphrasing it all the time. I'm not closing the
script but she says, you should do the right thing,
you should have the guts to do the right thing,
and you know what, he doesn't, and that, of course,
(08:48):
hopefully keeps the ball rolling. It brings us back to
find out what's going to happen next. But there is
a great sense of failure for Anthony at the end
of this. It's fantastic for Edwina. It's tragic for Kate,
who has realized herself that she loves Anthony. But he
fails or does it? I mean, you know that's I mean,
(09:09):
I feel he fails. The weird thing is, Gabby, we're
talking about this in a very serious manner, and there
are some very sad and extraordinary scenes in these two episodes,
but it's also wildly entertaining. And the thing is that
you can't make something wildly entertaining unless you understand what
the serious bits of it are about. You have to
(09:29):
make it real, emotionally real, and then you can have fun.
You can have fun with the ball. You know, when
we've got orchestral versions of modern day music. You know,
when you've got you know, extraordinary choreography that is quite
modern actually and is based on rumbas or dancers that
(09:50):
weren't around at that time, and we have a great
laugh with them, and actually, you know, most of the
time we weren't laughing on set. It was fun. But
what roots it all are these things about the position
of women in the era and about the in some
ways that are freeing ourselves of the necessity to look
at people's skin tone and judge them their characters on that.
(10:12):
And these two very serious things undermine what is actually
the most wonderful wish fulfillment, which is this show. We'll
be right back. Welcome back to Bridgerton the official podcast.
(10:34):
So we've been introduced to the Sharmas. I don't know
what to ask you about them, really, just like, what
do you think the Sharmas are perfect? Let's just put
that way. They are. You know, in the books they
were the Sheffield and I love the way the show
kept the name Sheffield in there. I think that was
really sweet. Now they're the Sharmas, which I love. And
(10:56):
you know I've said this before, I probably I probably
said it to you last year. I love the way
Shandiland has taken this thing I created and expanded it
and they did it in a way that I personally
could not have done just on my own. And I
think that's one of the beauties of television, which is
(11:18):
such a collaborative medium. You have so many people involved,
you know, with a book, it's me and you know,
my editor and I you know, I can bring to
it my imagination and my lived experiences, and you know
there are limits to that and limits to what I
can do well. You know, I would love to write
(11:42):
more about characters coming from India, but I want to
make sure I can do it well and in a
way that is not harmful to somebody, in a way
that doesn't necessarily perpetuate a stereotype that I don't even
know exists. I mean, that's the thing, you know. I
love that with the Sharmas, you know, because there were
(12:03):
so many people involved who could bring bits of them
and their knowledge to it, They're able to create and
expand the world in a way that is very authentic
and has own voices. I know that one of the
writers of this season is she's Indian American, and I
know that she was very involved with writing the Sharma
(12:25):
Sisters and bringing some per experiences to it to keep
it really authentic. And I love that. What a creative
way to like bring in other parts of the globe.
And I mean we also have Jack Featherington coming from
the Americas. There's like a lot of newcomers. You take
it away with H three and No. Four. Bridgeton is
(12:46):
a romance, It's fantastic. Is about people falling in love.
Is something we've all experienced or want to experience, and
therefore it's a kind of lovely wish fulfilment. But something
very special that Shanda has brought to this show is
the fact that people of color are cast and playing
in it as if really all it is about is
(13:07):
human beings. And I'm British. You can hear from my accent.
I was born in Newcastle upon Tyne in Great Britain
and I started working for the BBC at a young age.
But I'm of Indian and British extraction, so my mother's English,
my father is from South India, and I was never
able to portray my own background in this historical context.
(13:30):
I made quite a number of films TV shows starring
contemporary shows with people of color from Britain and particularly
from my Asian and Indian background, but in historical dramas
I got into any number of bits of hot water
we've produced when I said, can we just have someone
of color in this drama? And they just wouldn't go
(13:50):
for it. They would always say, oh, no, no, no,
there were no people of color in Britain at this time,
which of course is nonsense by the way. And what
was so startling when Chris Van Dewson was in touch
with me in October twenty twenty and he showed me
the first few episodes and we talked sort of talked
about season two and I was just astonished and gratified
(14:13):
and inspired to see people that look like me and
look like my friends in a historical drama. And no
one once said, what's that Joe Ando doing in this?
She can't be Lady Danbury. But yeah, you know what,
she's had Joe, and she's one of the most royal
people and regal people I've ever met. And it was
(14:34):
so exciting. And I said to Chris, this is way
back in October. I didn't know anything about season two.
I said, this is amazing. I said, the one thing
that's slightly missing is that, of course, at that time,
Great Britain had had a huge number of trade and
indeed legal connections with India. I mean there was East
India company ran the country basically. When I say ran
(14:55):
and actually mean robbed millions of pounds from it, I
think middle of the Victorian era, two hundred million pounds contemporaneously,
we're being taken from India. So put that into day's context.
Was that two hundred billion anyway, what was believed and
brought back to Great Britain and maybe Britain great actually,
(15:17):
And so he said to me, well, now we're going
to send you some scripts for season two, and lo
and behold in season two the Sheffield to become the Charmers,
and suddenly the whole world, a real world, opened up
of that connection between Great Britain and the subcontinent of India.
(15:37):
Because it's a romance. We're making the very best of that,
we're making the very best of what could have been
if only, if only that humanity had been around at
that time. So what could have been is what you
see on screen, and the Shamas are exactly that wish fulfilment, saying, yes,
(15:59):
if the wasn't in the real world being this awful
kind of conflict and to give it the proper word
racism and of course in schondaland there isn't in chandaland
people of people. Women are people of equal statue to
the men, which is fantastic. And to me it was
(16:20):
it was like, I can can't tell you, Gabby was
like coming home to a dream. And there was a
point from the filming. It's in episode three. I think
our main characters are arriving at the bridges and country
estate Abrey Hall. Yeah, Abery Hall. And we were filming
in a carriage and I put my head through the
carriage to just give the usual directions. And there was Adua,
(16:43):
and there was Shelley con there was Charifa Chandrant and
there was Simone Ashley and I look around It's like, wow,
these are four women of color. They are four women
of color in regency empire cut dresses that on. It's
the weeks that all looking amazing, and they weren't incident
(17:04):
thought they were our lead characters. And I've stuck my
head through the carriage window. I look around and I
was it's a British phrase this for your non British listeners.
I was gossmatched and means I couldn't think of a
word to say, and I said, I said, I am
looking at a vision that I've had in my head
(17:24):
for twenty five years, and I'm looking at it right now.
And you are the most important things in this episode,
and you've been driven to Aubrey Hall. You've got to
turn the world upside down. You've got to turn Anthony's
world upside down. And I'm so excited to be filming
with you. He will be assessing me, I know, considering
(17:47):
how I might perform as my countess, and he should
not be the only one you two must consider if
Lord Bridgeton is everything you wanted a match as were Indeed,
we should all pass the week with open minds. I
should be the very pitch of any ability show. The
Charmer Sisters at heart, they're the Sheffield Sisters, I wrote.
(18:10):
I mean they're what's inside of them is the same,
isn't that something? Yeah? Kate is Kate and Edwina is Edwina. Yes,
and that's just what's amazing is that, you know, it
just goes to show you that you know people. You
know we're not the same because everybody's different, but at
heart we want the same things and we have the
same characteristics and we may have different experiences and different cultures,
(18:34):
but the types of things that you know, shape our
minds and our hearts and our wants and our goals.
Those echo around the world. And both the actresses, Simone
Ashley and cher Chandrin are just brilliant in the roles.
There's a moment in I think it's I think it's
the second episode when Anthony has this big thing and
(18:58):
he says, I can't say poetry, I can only be
myself a man of action whatever, and the camera goes
on Edwina's face while she's looking at him, and it's
amazing because you know, Edwina could be this character that
could seem like nothing but a foil for Kate, and
(19:21):
cherry Cho brings so much more to it. You just
see in her face right there, you know her the
quiet intelligence that she has too that is just you know,
she's used to being a bit overshadowed by her older
sister and like letting her older sister take the lead.
And and then of course with you know Kate, I mean,
(19:42):
Simone brings so much fierceness to it. So I just
those two actresses are absolutely amazing, and they really brought
to the four everything I was trying to do with
this set of sisters. I just I could not be happier.
And what you said about Edwina's quiet intelligence is so true, Like, like,
(20:03):
I learned so much more about Edwina when she's not
speaking and like looking at someone while they're speaking. Sharita
really did bring that out in Edwena. I love that
so much. I love that. Yeah, Kate definitely still has
that bite in the show. One of the ways that
she exhibits that same kind of undercurrent of just like
(20:25):
I'm like two steps ahead is like the tea and
not liking the tea, but she's she's very I can't
put my finger on it, but she's very not passive,
a little passive, aggressive, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah.
And another thing I love about the character of Kate
(20:45):
is her interactions with Lady Danbury, which, yes, that's new
to the show, but it brings out a part of
her character which I was really trying to do in
the book too, which is this this woman who's used
to being the smartest person in the room and she
usually is the smartest person in the room, and learning
(21:07):
to be the smartest person in the room without being
like a jerk is a skill, and there are a
couple times when you know, she crosses the line into
being kind of you annoying about being the smartest person
in the room, and Lady Danbury is just having none
of it. And so Kate gets to learn too, I
think she does. So Kate was basically acting along the
(21:28):
lines of like, I'll be okay, I'll be by myself
and I'll have my wealth and I don't need all
of this, and Danbury is like, you want to be me,
but you can't be me because I have lived and
I have loved. Kate also has a moment of self reflection,
and then you see throughout the show Kate like slightly
annoyed by the Lady Danbury, but towards the middle of
(21:54):
the season she kind of loosens up and heeds what
Lady Danbury says. She like at least takes it in. Well,
you know, this brings me back to one of my
life lessons recently. Just one of the smartest things you
can do is to recognize when people know more than
you do. There are people, I mean, I think I'm
a fairly smart, intelligent person, but I recognize when other
(22:15):
people know more about certain things than I do, And
so with Bridgerton, there were a whole host of people
who knew more about making a television show than I did.
And the fact that they wanted to start off with
my characters and my story was such an honor. But
I'm just going to say go with it. I trust
you guys. You are smart, you know what you're doing,
and that's what Kate needs to learn from. Lady Danbury
(22:35):
is wait a minute. You know, this woman's been the
leader of the ton for how many years? Who am
I to come in here and try to tell her
how to do it? I mean, if I were Lady Danbury,
I would have lost it with her way sooner than that. Yeah,
she was pretty patient. Yeah, since we're talking about them,
there's just this other moment, and it's this universal moment
(22:57):
where Kate is oiling Edwina's scalp, which I just I
love that so much. It's just such an intimate moment.
It's just such it was just so good. I just
love that little detail. You must know you did nothing wrong.
(23:17):
I must have done something. The rest of the town
are now set to join us in the country. Surely,
if the Viscount were to propose he would have done
it by now, Yes, what if I have missed my chance, Edwina.
Perhaps I should have found out more about the Bridgetons,
I should have known more about the interest. I should
(23:39):
have been better. I mean, the thing is in many cultures,
but very specifically in Indian culture, the oiling of hair
is a thing that a mother does with a daughter,
or a sister does with a sister, and he is
actually an expression of love, tenderness, tenderness and love. And
(24:01):
of course to come at this moment where Anthony has
just failed at the dinner party, at the dinner table
to propose to her, so she's heartbroken, and to then
have her hair treated so tenderly, it's really upsetting, of course,
(24:22):
and brings the emotions, the upset out for Edwina. And
Therethra really, I think channel that I hope you feel
that she did shot very simply, and really it was
a matter of knowing the situation and allowing those two
wonderful actors to work their way through it. And you know,
(24:44):
while you're there two actors very quiet set This was
quiet and might add and just encouraging to go one
more time or enlarge on a specific thing they were
doing or look they were doing and just keeping the
cameras running to Okay, someone, let's just take it back
to the beginning and we're going to go that again
(25:04):
this time kneel down at this line or because I've
felt something very special there, and you know, when you're
doing those intimate scenes, they are very very satisfying if
we all feel that we're in an intimate and an
honest situation where they can show me what they feel.
And I hope they did, and I think they did.
(25:25):
Thank you for taking us inside to describe how you
all brought that off of the page. And I thank
you because I feel like some things like that can
get lost and they may not resonate with some viewers,
but for me, that was just like, I know, this experience,
you know that was incredible. The fact if you recognize that,
(25:46):
whether it's something from your own expiace or just the
tenderness between these two women, you recognized and I recognized it.
You know, I've never actually had my hair oiled ever,
but I think I'm going to go out and get
it done. Play someone and ask please, you have to
(26:06):
just sit down, let someone part your hair and massages
gals so nice, so so nice. Yeah. One of the
things I really want to talk about is Kate Charma's
disdain for English tea. I can talk about it. Got
some Earl gray right here, Yeah there you there, you go.
(26:28):
Well that's the thing. We're in the bridges and tea land,
so we've got to talk about tea. What we call
in England tea is served the Chinese way, which is
boiling water, leaves strained. That's tea, and then you add
milk later and a bit of sugar if your taste
go that way. Now in India, you get your tea,
(26:50):
you get some water, you get some milk, you get
some sugar or jaggery. This is called so it's kind
of crystalline sugar, and you get some spices and you
boil it all up and it's called chai. You know,
we meets her, we're just having a laugh about it.
Really setting you know this this this week week ineffectual
English tea because if you if I went to my
aunt's house in Chennai and she is boiling up chai,
(27:14):
it's pretty strong. It's been boiling rages and it's sweet
and it's milky, and it is quite a different drink really,
and so we did the best we can because she
couldn't do that. All she could do was bring a few.
So we had clothes, We had cardamon, which is my
own personal favorite spice and does make them as a
wonderful tea, whether you boiling milk up in it or
(27:35):
just have it black. It just it's a lovely, lovely
set of spices. And that's all that was. It was
just she brings a pouch of this of these tea
with her as a reminder of home. I really enjoyed that,
and I just I love how snarky she is throughout
about the tea that is available. I think that's just
(27:58):
so funny. I guess. I also just really loved that
it was. There was this idea in the show that
you've got the Sharma's coming from India, but they know
the game, like they're not like coming up, you know,
and into this society. They are very much part of it,
(28:18):
just living somewhere else. Yeah, although I think a lot
of it is unfamiliar to them, just because even if
you know, the mother was very squarely of that world
and she, you know, according to society, married down. I
think the father, who is not in the show was
a clerk maybe yeah, but she comes back. She's very
(28:38):
much of this world and they are. They are being
brought into society, society by Lady Danbury, so nobody can
question there. They're bona fides, but I think it is
still a culture shock for them. I think high society
in India, I think, I think you're from Bombay, I
think is still quite different than high society in London.
The hardest thing actually for Simone and Cerithra, whom and
(29:00):
he lives either the majority of their lives in England
or born there, is actually they creative an accent without
their dialect coach to give a very accurate, what I
believe is a very accurate rendition of someone who was
born in present day Mumbai and has learned English impeccably.
But they've still got a bit of an accent. So
(29:20):
those accents they speak in the show are manufactured and practiced,
and to my ear, they were perfect. So someone might
tell me different, but they worked so hard on them. Wow, yeah,
don't speak like that. That's such a great little tid bit.
I didn't know that. Yeah, I mean really hard, because
it's it's another layer between them and their acting and
(29:42):
so and you know what, they never ever let it
get in the way. Yeah. So, speaking about the South
Indian background, I got a tip that the costume department
made it a point to try to bridge a decades
long history of Indian fashion into the imagined regency Ara fashion,
to blend those together to create the palettes and colors
(30:06):
and designs for the Sharma costumes. The something of that.
I mean, they don't wear Indian costumes, but the fact
is that Indian fabrics were essential to British costumes of
the here's a Muslim. The Paisley pattern is called Paisley
which is in Scotland, but actually it's a pattern from
what in those days was called the Northwest Frontier, but
(30:28):
essentially Pakistan and Afghanistan. It's a specific pattern. So all
that was integrated as much as possible. Wow, we'll be
right back, welcome back. I had to rewatch oh three
and oh four, like more than twice to make sure
(30:50):
I was seeing what I was seeing and hearing what
I was hearing. And there's a point where Eloise says
you wish to be entertained when she's set up to
dance with someone, which I feel like it's a very
chandland thing, like I wish to be entertained. I think
he was more a comment on the fact that as
a young woman she's supposed to perform for a potential suitor,
(31:15):
and that's in the middle of the ball and a
man that violence thinks is suitable because he's also a
bit difficult like her, And of course what he is,
he's actually a bit of a bit of a chauvinist,
and he doesn't believe that women can do anything. And
he immediately puts her back up. And when he says that,
(31:35):
of course she storms out. And it is that's an
extraordinary performance from from Claudia and in d from roots
as always, Eloise, is what I invited, Lord Morris, specifically
for you. He's nothing to share your rebellious spirit, my rebellion.
It is not some party dress epost want to play
(31:57):
a part, mamma, And it is certainly not some accomplishment
I have developed, like singing or painting to help me
attract to suit. It I no I am a disappointment
to you, so just allow me to take my leave
and go to bed. Up until this point I thought
we had seen Claudia be you know Eloise in full effect,
(32:19):
but in that moment I'm like, oh, this is Eloise,
Like she's really tormented. She's not just the odd the
black sheep, so to say, over the family. She's really tormented. Yeah,
she's not a comedy character, though she is very funny
because she's such a witty person. In Claudia I believe
has has been always a stand up comedian, so she's
(32:41):
she's quite a bit of comedy stuff and she's such
a delightful person in reality, of course, but no, she's
feeling the pain of being a woman in the early
nineteenth century, where you are pretty judged on the men
or the man you're married too, and you're worth is
judged on that, not on who you are, and she
(33:02):
can't stand it. It's almost like she's she's got a
vision of the future and knows that she'll never be
part of it. Claudia plays the character of Eloise with
such intelligence, with such an ironic view the male idiots
around her who have the opportunity to do everything. So
in fact, Benedict rather played by Luke Thompson, gets into
(33:23):
an art college. He's got the chance to do that,
and of course the other Newton, who plays Colin Bridgeton,
has been all around Europe. He's being on the ground
tour port. Eloise has been stuck at home with her books,
and you know, we talked an awful lot between the
three of us about that power dynamic, about the opportunities
that they've had and have wasted in a way, and
(33:46):
about the opportunities that Eloise has been denied. Colin has
been abroad, learned nothing and actually wants to return to Marina.
Benedict has got into art school, but I'm not sure.
He's not sure what he really wants out of life.
You know, it's exciting, but he's got problems with drink.
(34:08):
Where he'll go, we don't know. Speaking of Marina, that
is also one of my other favorite series of moments.
The actress's performance was so ruthless. She has handled Colin
like a ragdar. Throughout my travels, I kept pondering how
(34:28):
I left things between us, all of those terrible things
I said to you, Colin, There is no need. I
want you to know that I'm sorry and that I
forgive you as well. I do not need your apology
any more than I desire your forgiveness. All of this
you and I is in the past, but do not
look at your life and wonder what may have been
(34:49):
if we had conducted ourselves differently. That is a fool's
form of torture. I have left the past behind. You
should do the same. There's a big faction of people
who are like for Marina and not for Marina, and
so I guess what were your conversations like our conversations
were fantastic, are really open. Ruby Barker is a lovely, lovely,
(35:15):
intelligent actor and wanted to play this from a position
of strength, and we absolutely talked about that. Colin as
she says, you're a little boy. You're projecting things on
me that aren't me. You need to grow up and
you need to look at the person who really loves you,
my Penelope. And it's a tough thing to say, because
(35:37):
this boy has come all the way to her married
life and tried to tell her that her marriage is
no good and she says, no, Actually, listen, I've got
a big house, I've got a two children. My husband
will take care of me and he respects me, and
that's pretty good for a woman in that era, you know.
(35:57):
And I need to be saved. I was like, oh
my goodness, yeah, you know, And so part of our
rehearsal process is understanding with me and Ruby and Luke,
understanding completely what we want to achieve in those scenes.
And then, as I said, letting them loose and we're
in Westwickcombe Park. Most amazing this is, I might add,
(36:21):
here's another little secret. The room that father gave birth
in was over on the other side of the hallway,
but on our side we were in Marina's new house.
Oh wow, you know, she had the freedom, I hope,
to express herself. And of course there's that terrible look
of regret when connin Fanny does go yeah, you know,
(36:44):
very small, very subtle, and I think kind of she's
been strong. She's told him he's a boy, but actually
he's still got the best. He's had the best of opportunities,
and he's thrown them all the way. I now feel
like he was a little presumptuous. He went to see
totally Marina. You know. I'm like, oh, I just really
(37:04):
loved at that moment because it just reinforces where these
women are actually coming from, Like they know they're in
this society, but they have opinions, and I feel like
we see that more of this season, and I think
this is the other reason Bridge is so successful. Every
scene is about how women who have no power, or
(37:25):
very little power, or very small narrow corridors of movement
are able to manipulate their world and make the most
of it. There is a commonality between the troubles of
people of color and women in the world today. And indeed,
the approach I had was really about how they all
(37:46):
use their cleverness, that personality to push that through. You know,
whether you're talking about that lady Featherington, who of course
only has she's got no money, but she's got this
extraordinary termination to push through things, whether it's Eloise for example,
with her fantastic intellect, or you've got Penelope, who of
(38:07):
course is completely powerless, but actually she has great power
again through the power of her mind, the ability to
have created her newsletter and to put it out there.
And I would say to Nicola a Copland and playing Penny,
I said, you know, she's got a superpower, like she's
actually invisible. She hears stuff and then she puts it
(38:30):
out there. And if that was a Marvel movie, she
would have a superpower. I don't know what she would
be called. I might leave that to you or your
listeners to work out what Penny's Marvels superhero re name
would be, but it would be something amazing, and she'd
still be dressed into her citrus outfit. In some ways,
that it was about seeing what the superpower was in
(38:51):
each of these women. That was important to me because
a superpower in things like the Marvel universe are really
bad things that you have to keep secret. If everyone new,
then they would be compromised, they would actually be trapped.
It's a hugely entertaining to see someone who is an
underdog actually triumph against the forces against them. And you
(39:13):
know that alone is enough to bring me to the
show and hopefully bring all our listeners today as well.
They are determined to carve out as much power as
they can. Yeah, you know that they know that they're
not going to They're not going to be the ones
to overthrow the patriarchy. It's just we're too far back
(39:34):
for that. And I think it's important to write about
the women who pulled out the bricks so that other
women can knock down the wall. Because this is the
time period that I've chosen to write in. You know,
we're we're we're still a few generations away from women's
suffrage and you know, even more general rations away from
you know what we think of now as feminism. But
somebody's got to start the process. And that's what these
(39:55):
women are doing. And you know, it would be unrealistic
of me to write them as as the women like
running over the wall. It's just we weren't there yet historically.
But I can write these women who are grabbing power
and nurturing power where they can, and that's what I
(40:16):
want to do. And then I get to I get
to say it's part of the Bridger Verse, which my son,
who was like into like Marble movies and stuff, is like,
you are not allowed to say that, mom, That is
not cool. You're going too far if you start talking
about the Bridger Verse. That is really cute. Hold on,
I have to write that down. The Bridger Verse. Everyone
(40:38):
loves Newton. Do you want to give a shout out
to the little dog actor who played Newton? I don't know.
I was surprised at how many people were like, yay
for Newton. I was yeah. When when those stills were
released and people saw that there was a corgy in
one of the photos. That was all anybody could talk about. Yeah,
I think there were so many readers who were so
afraid Newton wouldn't be in the show. Newton's big moment
(41:02):
in the books did not make it into the show.
Newton had like a very pivotal moment in the books,
but still just the fact that he's there. I think
book readers would have been very disappointed if Newton weren't.
And here's to Newton, Here's to the CORGI I know,
and that I learned when the book came out that
Corgis were not called Corgis. Then, Oh, I can't even
(41:24):
remember the details except that, like I got slacked down
by the Historical Accuracy Police about Corey's existing but not
being called Corgis, and I you know, I think I
may have actually put that on my website. I have
a section for every single book there's like about the
(41:47):
inside the story it's called, and I have the background information,
and it's got stuff about various research stuff and things
I got wrong, and like if there's inside jokes for readers,
let's see here. Oh, here we go. I will not
read you from my website. Regular readers know that I
(42:08):
love to include animals in my books. Newton the Overweight
Corgie was modeled after Homer, a very friendly Corgi who
lived on My street. Corgies, while not an officially recognized
breed in Britain until the nineteen twenties, originated in Wales
during the Middle Ages. Corgies are also very popular with
the Royal family. Queen Elizabeth's dogs are Doorgies, which are
Corgi docs and mixes. I maybe I saw this on
(42:29):
your site. Yes, that Inside the Story I'm sure is
a result of people like getting all upset with me
calling them corgies since they were not recognized breed until
in eighteen twenties. But it is a fun thing for
if you are one of my readers, please come to
the website and every every single book has a page,
and every single book page has a section called inside
the Story which has these fun little tidbits about the
(42:52):
booking once again schooling us, letting us in, and I
could talk to you about characters and your like inspiration
for hours. Literally, Well, thank you, and you're just such
a pleasure to speak to. Alex Play. Thank you so
(43:13):
much for your time and your candor and letting us
inside you're ahead. Thank you so much, Gaby. You've been
incredibly generous as a hust and you know, I'm really
really looking forward to everyone's reactions, and i know I'm
sure many of them positives. So I'm looking forward to
thank you for joining us on this deep dive into
(43:35):
the world of Bridgerton. Next week, host Gabrielle Collins will
be joined by Tom Verica, director and head of Creative
Production at Shondaland, and Simone Ashley, who plays Kay Charma.
If you're enjoying this show, please subscribe, share with your friends, rate,
or leave us a review. And if you haven't finished
binging Bridgerton on Netflix, please go do that so you
can enjoy all of the juicy spoilers with us. Bridgerton.
(43:57):
The Official Podcast is executive produced by Sandy Aley, Lauren Holman,
Tyler Klang, and Gabrielle Collins. Our producer and editor is
Vince de Jonny Bridgerton. The Official Podcast is a production
of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you
(44:19):
subscribe to your favorite shows.
Host
Gabrielle Collins
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