January 15, 2025 • 8 mins
Burden of Guilt has been turned into a docuseries, now streaming only on Paramount+. Available to watch HERE!
And make sure to binge all episodes of the podcast that inspired the show before you watch!
Paramount+ has turned Burden of Guilt into a docuseries. Nancy Glass talks with Executive Producer Jon Hirsch about the upcoming three-part docuseries. You can stream, Burden of Guilt starting February 4th on Paramount+.
If you would like to reach out to the Burden of Guilt Team, email us at burdenofguiltpod@gmail.com.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, It's Nancy Glass. I want to introduce you to
an award winning filmmaker and executive producer, John Hirsch. He
has created documentaries that have aired on CNN. He did Pope,
he did Lincoln, he did Jefferson on History, he did
(00:21):
Betrayal on Hulu, and he is executive producer with me
A Burden of Guilt and that's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, it is. It is so thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You and I we put together the documentary for A
Burden of Guilt on Paramount Plus. What did you think
when I first told you that we were going to
do audio documentary and a video documentary on a woman
who was accused of murdering her baby brother.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, I will never forget when you called me to
tell me about this story. You sent me a text actually,
and he said, you got a minute. I got an
incredible story to share, And so I called you a
couple minutes later and he said, Johnny's sitting down. I've
found a story that I think is one of the
best I've ever come across. And you know you and
I have worked together long enough, and you know how
(01:16):
much I trust your instincts when it comes to story,
and I said, all right, lay it on me. What
do you got. And you know, at this point, we've
worked on serial killer documentaries and cold cases, and you know,
we've seen a lot, we've heard a lot. It's hard
to be shocked anymore. And Nancy, you started telling me
about the story and telling me about Tracy Urkel's journey
from what she knew growing up, about her baby brother,
(01:38):
you know, passing away, and sort of the questions that existed.
And then you started hitting me with one thing after
the next, after the next, after the next, and I
was like, this can't be true, because no true crime
story reads or sounds the way this one does, which
sounded almost like a scripted movie, like you couldn't make
up these twists and turns, and I so it's really
(02:00):
taken aback. I almost didn't believe the story at first.
And I think the part of it that I couldn't
get over was having worked on so many cases that
had gone cold that you had a little spark that
got an investigation restarted. Never had I seen one where
it was over two decades had passed since law enforcement
had made a determination about what happened, and in that case,
(02:22):
actually getting not only reopened but solved. I mean, that
just doesn't happen. It's such an incredible amount of time
to pass, and so many things can happen, and the
way in which this case gets reopened and then solved
is just remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It is remarkable. And I have to tell you my
only I guess hesitation was the way I personally feel
about Tracy Rouquel, because I don't get involved that way,
but I care so much for her as a person.
I admire her so much. I mean, here's somebody who
(02:58):
grows up and as is horrible. I mean some of
the stories we weren't even allowed to use about this horrible,
horrible childhood, and she grows up and really becomes a hero.
You know. She solves her baby brother's murder, she gets
the murderer convicted, She becomes an incredible mother. She cares
(03:21):
so much about people. She is one of the strongest
people I've ever known.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When I first met her, when you and I went
out to Colorado that first time to meet her in person,
I was taken aback right away by her warmth. She's
incredibly warm and genuine to everybody that she meets, whether
it was you know, us coming to meet her to
talk about potentially telling her story, or just the waiter
who was telling us the specials that night when we
all went out to dinner. She just has a kindness
(03:48):
about her that it's endearing, but it's also a little
surprising when you start to know about some of the
incredible hardship. It's true that she's been through. It's amazing,
and it's ever to see.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It that way though. That's the whole thing. You know.
She talked about being an opening of a center for
abused women or children, and they were calling her a victim,
and she thought, oh my god, I'm not a victim.
She didn't even think of it that way, thought herself,
not a victim.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
A crusader, is what she Yes, yeah, absolutely, this case
was dead in the water. I mean, law enforcement had
made a determination the day that Matthew tragically passed away
that you know, unfortunately, could have buried this crime forever.
And Tracy's the reason this case got looked into again.
It's the reason the case got reopened. And you know,
(04:36):
I don't I don't want to share too many spoilers,
but the efforts that she put in that triggered the
reopening of this case are unprecedented. I've never seen it
from a private citizen to do what they did twenty
five years after a crime took place, to spark this
kind of you know, reinterest and then actually getting the
case reopened is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And she also risked her life, she was threatened. I
really admire her for it. I am, you know, so
proud to call her my friend.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Absolutely. That's as important to me as you know a
lot of people tuning in. I mean, this relationship is
one that you know, means a lot to us right now,
and it's going to mean a lot to us ten
years from now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So John as the executive producer of Burden of Guilt,
which you can see on Paramount Plus starting February fourth,
what is it that people will see on the documentary
that they didn't hear in the podcast. Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, the biggest thing is an interview with the murderer himself.
You're going to hear it from him, his version of
what happened that day and the aftermath, and it is
pretty wild and not often that you when the dust
settles on a story that's just as extreme as this
one is, and a documentary that is as heartfelt is
(05:56):
this one is you don't often get to hear that
side from the murder's out himself, and that that is
something I think viewers are really going to be interested
in and surprise by.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
We actually had to put up a warning on the
screen saying this man looks very different from the way
he looked in his youth, and I didn't even want
to do that because I think he looks like the
person he is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I thought that was
a tricky situation, and I look at it this way.
You know, having worked in prisons on prison shows and
being around people who are living that life. Prison is
a really really tough place, right and it'll aid you quickly,
But it's an even tougher place when you murdered a
kid and it shows on his face and in his body.
(06:43):
What the toll of decades behind bars for doing what
he did.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I agree. I also think that we've heard from all
these people, but seeing them makes a difference. We all
imagine what these people look like, but I think you'll
be impressed when you see what Terracy ur Kell looks like.
When you see the prosecutors, you hear how they've reacted
(07:08):
to things, and it's very moving.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Look, it is a three part documentary that I know
you and I are both incredibly proud of. I think
we've done the story justice. But it is a story
that is hard to believe at times, with the twists
and turns and the things that happen. You know, after
the truth comes out and you get into the legal
process of the trial and the trials in this case,
(07:31):
you see the ways in which, you know, our legal
system kind of can converge with facts of a case
and feelings towards a case, and the little nuances of
the rules of law and how those end up inflating
this case. Tracy or Kell doesn't just fight to clear
her name and find out who actually committed the murder,
but she's also up against a justice system that, twenty
(07:54):
five plus years later, you know, is set up in
a way that makes it really, really difficult to navigate.
And she navigates it, I don't want to say flawlessly,
because she doesn't, and it makes it even more dramatic
on the back end to finally get to that conclusion
after all the twists and turns and this saga that
we're on. It's so incredibly satisfying when you get to
(08:16):
the end, because you're rooting so hard for Tracy Raqual
that when you finally get to the end, it's like, Ah,
she did it, we did it. And I really hope
the audience, you know, feels that way as well, and
I'm confident they will.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So I hope that people will watch Burden of Guilt,
and I hope they walk away from it feeling like
there is justice in this world.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I hope so too.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Burden of Guilt premiere is February fourth on Paramount Plus.
I hope you'll tune in and watch
Hi, It's Nancy Glass. I want to introduce you to
an award winning filmmaker and executive producer, John Hirsch. He
has created documentaries that have aired on CNN. He did Pope,
he did Lincoln, he did Jefferson on History, he did
(00:21):
Betrayal on Hulu, and he is executive producer with me
A Burden of Guilt and that's why you're here.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Yes, it is. It is so thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
You and I we put together the documentary for A
Burden of Guilt on Paramount Plus. What did you think
when I first told you that we were going to
do audio documentary and a video documentary on a woman
who was accused of murdering her baby brother.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
Well, I will never forget when you called me to
tell me about this story. You sent me a text actually,
and he said, you got a minute. I got an
incredible story to share, And so I called you a
couple minutes later and he said, Johnny's sitting down. I've
found a story that I think is one of the
best I've ever come across. And you know you and
I have worked together long enough, and you know how
(01:16):
much I trust your instincts when it comes to story,
and I said, all right, lay it on me. What
do you got. And you know, at this point, we've
worked on serial killer documentaries and cold cases, and you know,
we've seen a lot, we've heard a lot. It's hard
to be shocked anymore. And Nancy, you started telling me
about the story and telling me about Tracy Urkel's journey
from what she knew growing up, about her baby brother,
(01:38):
you know, passing away, and sort of the questions that existed.
And then you started hitting me with one thing after
the next, after the next, after the next, and I
was like, this can't be true, because no true crime
story reads or sounds the way this one does, which
sounded almost like a scripted movie, like you couldn't make
up these twists and turns, and I so it's really
(02:00):
taken aback. I almost didn't believe the story at first.
And I think the part of it that I couldn't
get over was having worked on so many cases that
had gone cold that you had a little spark that
got an investigation restarted. Never had I seen one where
it was over two decades had passed since law enforcement
had made a determination about what happened, and in that case,
(02:22):
actually getting not only reopened but solved. I mean, that
just doesn't happen. It's such an incredible amount of time
to pass, and so many things can happen, and the
way in which this case gets reopened and then solved
is just remarkable.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
It is remarkable. And I have to tell you my
only I guess hesitation was the way I personally feel
about Tracy Rouquel, because I don't get involved that way,
but I care so much for her as a person.
I admire her so much. I mean, here's somebody who
(02:58):
grows up and as is horrible. I mean some of
the stories we weren't even allowed to use about this horrible,
horrible childhood, and she grows up and really becomes a hero.
You know. She solves her baby brother's murder, she gets
the murderer convicted, She becomes an incredible mother. She cares
(03:21):
so much about people. She is one of the strongest
people I've ever known.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
When I first met her, when you and I went
out to Colorado that first time to meet her in person,
I was taken aback right away by her warmth. She's
incredibly warm and genuine to everybody that she meets, whether
it was you know, us coming to meet her to
talk about potentially telling her story, or just the waiter
who was telling us the specials that night when we
all went out to dinner. She just has a kindness
(03:48):
about her that it's endearing, but it's also a little
surprising when you start to know about some of the
incredible hardship. It's true that she's been through. It's amazing,
and it's ever to see.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
It that way though. That's the whole thing. You know.
She talked about being an opening of a center for
abused women or children, and they were calling her a victim,
and she thought, oh my god, I'm not a victim.
She didn't even think of it that way, thought herself,
not a victim.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
A crusader, is what she Yes, yeah, absolutely, this case
was dead in the water. I mean, law enforcement had
made a determination the day that Matthew tragically passed away
that you know, unfortunately, could have buried this crime forever.
And Tracy's the reason this case got looked into again.
It's the reason the case got reopened. And you know,
(04:36):
I don't I don't want to share too many spoilers,
but the efforts that she put in that triggered the
reopening of this case are unprecedented. I've never seen it
from a private citizen to do what they did twenty
five years after a crime took place, to spark this
kind of you know, reinterest and then actually getting the
case reopened is unbelievable.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
And she also risked her life, she was threatened. I
really admire her for it. I am, you know, so
proud to call her my friend.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Absolutely. That's as important to me as you know a
lot of people tuning in. I mean, this relationship is
one that you know, means a lot to us right now,
and it's going to mean a lot to us ten
years from now.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
So John as the executive producer of Burden of Guilt,
which you can see on Paramount Plus starting February fourth,
what is it that people will see on the documentary
that they didn't hear in the podcast. Oh?
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Well, the biggest thing is an interview with the murderer himself.
You're going to hear it from him, his version of
what happened that day and the aftermath, and it is
pretty wild and not often that you when the dust
settles on a story that's just as extreme as this
one is, and a documentary that is as heartfelt is
(05:56):
this one is you don't often get to hear that
side from the murder's out himself, and that that is
something I think viewers are really going to be interested
in and surprise by.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
We actually had to put up a warning on the
screen saying this man looks very different from the way
he looked in his youth, and I didn't even want
to do that because I think he looks like the
person he is.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah, I don't disagree with you. I thought that was
a tricky situation, and I look at it this way.
You know, having worked in prisons on prison shows and
being around people who are living that life. Prison is
a really really tough place, right and it'll aid you quickly,
But it's an even tougher place when you murdered a
kid and it shows on his face and in his body.
(06:43):
What the toll of decades behind bars for doing what
he did.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I agree. I also think that we've heard from all
these people, but seeing them makes a difference. We all
imagine what these people look like, but I think you'll
be impressed when you see what Terracy ur Kell looks like.
When you see the prosecutors, you hear how they've reacted
(07:08):
to things, and it's very moving.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Look, it is a three part documentary that I know
you and I are both incredibly proud of. I think
we've done the story justice. But it is a story
that is hard to believe at times, with the twists
and turns and the things that happen. You know, after
the truth comes out and you get into the legal
process of the trial and the trials in this case,
(07:31):
you see the ways in which, you know, our legal
system kind of can converge with facts of a case
and feelings towards a case, and the little nuances of
the rules of law and how those end up inflating
this case. Tracy or Kell doesn't just fight to clear
her name and find out who actually committed the murder,
but she's also up against a justice system that, twenty
(07:54):
five plus years later, you know, is set up in
a way that makes it really, really difficult to navigate.
And she navigates it, I don't want to say flawlessly,
because she doesn't, and it makes it even more dramatic
on the back end to finally get to that conclusion
after all the twists and turns and this saga that
we're on. It's so incredibly satisfying when you get to
(08:16):
the end, because you're rooting so hard for Tracy Raqual
that when you finally get to the end, it's like, Ah,
she did it, we did it. And I really hope
the audience, you know, feels that way as well, and
I'm confident they will.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
So I hope that people will watch Burden of Guilt,
and I hope they walk away from it feeling like
there is justice in this world.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
I hope so too.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Burden of Guilt premiere is February fourth on Paramount Plus.
I hope you'll tune in and watch
Host
Nancy Glass
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