September 24, 2024 • 46 mins
In this episode of Butternomics, Brandon Butler chops it up with Jah Rawlings, the mastermind behind AEBL, to break down how he flipped Atlanta’s basketball culture on its head. From surprise drop-ins by NBA superstar Kyrie Irving to teaming up with big brands and pulling in ATL legends like 2 Chainz and Lou Williams, Jah gives us the inside scoop on how he built AEBL into a basketball movement that’s all about the community.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The right team is key because you're like, yo, I
got people. You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, I
know this versus they can do this right, you know,
like yeah, let me you know, I need a full team. Yes,
you can do it by yourself up to a certain degree.
It is being pushed right now that you need a team.
You gotta have a CPA. You got to have a lawyer.
You got to start first, start first, and then figure
(00:23):
out what you are good at and then figure out
what you're not good at to find those people. And
you got to have the right people, and it has
to be very aligned to Yes, everybody want to be paid,
everybody want to make money, but it's like, ultimately, while
we're making this money, you got to have a passion
for what we're building too, because if you don't, it
ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's going on, y'all? Welcome to another episode of butter Nomics.
I am your host, Brandon Butler, and we have a
special special guest in here today, a friend, a homie,
my boy, Joe Rawlins of abl Joe. How you doing man,
I'm doing good man, Thanks for having me. Hey man,
glad to pull up. Now, you know a lot of
folks know me and Job. We work together on a
couple of things. A little thing called four or four day.
(01:10):
We got some more stuff up, a little something something.
We were talking about some other stuff right now. Man, Job,
he runs a ton of brands, a ton of companies
around Atlanta, and they're all over the place. But you know,
you're probably most known for ABL. Josh So, like, just
tell people real quick, how did that get started?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah? So ABL is now twelve years old. We're celebrating
our twelve summer this year. Congratulations, appreciate it. Man. So
growing up originally from New York, obviously basketball is king
in New York, especially in the summer, and I always
just envision like creating my own tournament. Really growing up,
I didn't know what that was gonna be. I just
(01:46):
always when I played in tournaments, I was always the
guy that was like, damn, how they put this together?
How they get all these teams, you know, like teams
coming from all over the place. And then when I
moved to Atlanta to come here to play college basketball
at Georgia Perimeter, I was like, hemn, Atlanta's missing something
in the summer. I was like, music is hot. You know,
black power entrepreneurship. You know, you see a lot of
(02:08):
wealthy people, celebrities. We call it black Hollywood. So I'm like, man,
the Hawks there are NBA franchise, but they don't necessarily
do summer basketball. So I was like, man, I want
to bring what I grew up in New York to
Atlanta where I confused the music, sports, and community together.
So twelve years ago, Man I was working at the
(02:28):
Atlanta Hawks by way doing basketball development, and I was like, man,
I really just want to get out and do my
own thing and really see if I can take basketball
to a new height and start an ABL organization. People
don't know ABEL is a nonprofit. I know we work
with a lot of big brands, but we are nonprofit organization.
Our first event was actually a celebrity charity game where
(02:51):
it was the first time people had sort of migos.
So we did it at Grady High School which is
now Midtown High School, and we had everybody come out,
all the celebrities, and once I seen that, I was like, yeah,
I know, I'm gonna do this summer league. So the
next year, that was twenty twelve. Christmas twenty thirteen, we
launched the Pro am League man, So.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And how just so folks know, like when you're putting
this league together, like how'd you find players? Like how
do you go from zero to one on something like that?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, I mean it. Just like I said, I was
already in the basketball community. You know, I coached AAU,
so I knew a lot of the guys that were
going to college are playing pro. And then I reached
out to the guys that I kind of came up
with that were either coaches, you know, on the collegiate
level or agents or whatever. And I was like, y'all
really want to do this, and you know, our first
real support man. And I really try to let people
(03:41):
know that these people help us get it off the
ground with awareness. So like Lou Will, who is one
of our guys who've been with us from the beginning.
You know, Lou was Lou six man, Lou you know,
every the NBA star's favorite star, you know. And then
shout out the Streeter X and two Chains, Trinidad James,
like k Camp, Like I said to Migos, those guys
(04:03):
were kind of with us at the beginning. So you
got to think, if I'm creating a basketball league and
then I already got these guys that people know and
they're pulling up. You know, people just was like, Yo,
we need to go play. But I will say the
first two years man out the Gate. My vision was
to create an outdoor summer basketball league, just like the
Rugy of New York. You know. The first year we
(04:24):
played straight the asphalt. You know, we just put out
call out. Social media had just became a big thing,
so we like, yo, you want to play ABL, come out,
So players would come out. You obviously, the teams that
we had in they knew players or they have a
network of players. Second year, you know, my big mind
and my big dreams that I got, Bro, I brought
out the hardwood that's like at State Farm Arena to
(04:47):
Central Park, getting the fourth ward, you know what I mean.
And crazy enough, Bro, that was like one of the
like pivotal points in ABL because man, that court probably
because like fifty thousand had to pay like I want
to say, somewhere between fifteen hundred and eighteen hundred a
weekend because the city wouldn't let us keep it down,
(05:08):
so I had to keep taking it up and putting
it down every weekend. And then the weather so as
you know, it can be ninety degrees and the damn
you know, the sun of disappearing and then world drop
out in Atlanta. So it rained every other weekend. So
what I realized, I was like, yo, I don't really
want to go inside. I mean I thought it every week. Man.
(05:31):
My team was like, yo, just let's go inside. I'm like, nah,
we wait until six o'clock, you know, to see if
this is going rain or not. And literally every we
only got to play three weekends on the court out
of six weeks or seven weekends because we used to
go seven weekends. But when we went in that gym,
it turned into a whole different thing. Because Atlanta or
(05:51):
Georgia is known for more indoor basketball. High Flyers, New York, Chicago,
you know, the bigger basketball cities in the sense are
used to playing outdoor, you know. So when we did that, Man,
when when that vision shifted to go to the gym
a little bit, I think it changed the whole scope
of what we now know as abl Now.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Job man, look man, now you know good and will
these folks in Atlanta down here, Like I remember when
the Falcons was getting ready to build that new stadium
and they were like, Oh, it's gonna be open air.
I said, let me tell y'all something. Ain't nobody going
to the football game in Atlanta open air? Like people
coming out there.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And they heels on showtime.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It's showtime, right, So you know, it was one thing
when you were out there outside. When you moved in,
it feels like that's what, But no, the crazy thing
is no man like.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think the women really liked it because it was
the you know, the summer flair, like they can sit courtside.
So when I say I think the the narrative ship.
It was more for the players. The fans loved it.
People to this day asking us when y'all gonna do
another outdoor league or outdoor tournament. I think it was
the players because they weren't used to playing in the
(06:55):
open air, you know, like New York or like the
street ball vibe, like it's it's a thing. Now in
Atlanta we do a lot like Red Bull, you know,
we do three on three outside whatever. But back then
it was still like we play indoors with air condition.
We ain't outside with the heat. The people enjoyed it
because they can come, they can see it. You ain't
got to be all the way in the mix. And
then the women. I mean, obviously ABL is dominated by
(07:19):
you know, the women, Atlanta is dominated by women, but
I think it was more so the players, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No man, and so you talked about some of people
that pulled up like there was a moment when Kyrie
came out there, Like what was that?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Like it was what took us to where we are now?
For sure. I feel like that. You know, Lou Chains,
Migos kkm are city guys kind of help us start
the first five years. He came on the sixth year
and I still tell people to this day, bro, like
that was only God, Bro, because what are the chances
(07:51):
of this? Think about this. Kyrie's in Atlanta shooting a movie, right,
he was shooting Uncle Drew. Yeah, he pulls up to
the ABL. It wasn't playing. We didn't know. I had
talked to him and his sister, and you know, he
already had knew about ABEL because he's seen all of
the other NBA guys playing in it. But he comes
in place. He's in a green uniform. Think about this, bro,
(08:13):
He's in a green uniform on Monday after he wins
the championship, he gets traded to the boss of Celtics.
It's no way that happened, bro, Like, you couldn't even
we couldn't plan that even if he told me, like, yo, man,
you know Monday, I'm getting traded to the Boys and Celtics.
I can't be like, yo, you know what on this weekend,
(08:33):
we're gonna put him on the team that's in green.
We didn't know that that team was gonna win. That
team just happened to be Lou Wills team, you know.
So when Kyrie came in, I would say, for me,
there's three guys that has come to our league outside
of our guys that you know, the Lou Wills and
Jaylen Brown's that always support us. When Kyrie came in,
(08:55):
he took every picture, he signed, every autograph, he played
with the kids while they were on the court. He's
stuck around after the game, like, and you talking about Kyrie, Kyrie,
this is Kyrie at the height, you know what I mean? Like,
you don't really see that. Man. Most guys have come,
you know, play and then they like yo, I gotta go.
They might even leave before the game is over. So
(09:15):
I feel like that moment for us as a league
and as representing Atlanta Basketball, showed the city what we
were coming with. But it also showed me that like
you don't really got to bage people, you know what
I'm saying, Like if they want to really do community
and they want to be about it, they want to
show up and give back in their way, that's the example.
You know. So man, we haven't looked back since, you know,
(09:38):
so it's been exciting to see you know, this league
grow into It's actually grown tremendously faster than I thought
it would. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What's that like for the players Because you got again,
you got these you know, amateur and I'm not say
an amateur in a bad way, but you got guys
you know, they're pro semi probe and all of a
sudden they see a Kyrie pull up or lou Will
pull up. Like just from a players standpoint, yeah, are
they trying the buses?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Ass?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Every and and and shout out to Trey Young. But
when we so we scheduled trade like we knew what
day he was coming, we knew who he was gonna play.
Like one of our guys, Chris CHRAMARTI that something may
know Chris has been in the league, you know, since
we started it. I mean, Chris went crazy on them,
(10:23):
like he was like, I'm gonna prove my point, Like yeah,
you're Trey Young, the guy for the Hogs. But when
it comes to this city basketball, were going at your neck.
So all the guys, any NBA players that come through
a bl we always match him up against our best
and they go they go hard against him, and not
in a way that like we don't respect you, but like, yo,
(10:44):
I'm gonna earn my respect too. And that's our model.
And that's what all of our guys breed. We earned.
Our model has earned your name. So when you come
we don't care of you in the NBA. You got
to earn your name. You got to get the respect
from the city. You gotta get the respect from the
players in our league. You know. Now when you go
off and we root for you in the in the
in the NBA, that's a whole different thing. But yeah, man,
(11:04):
the guys they take it serious and they want people
to know that our league is the best program in
the country.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Now, now you said something interesting I want to kind
of go back to for a second. You said, in
the beginning that ABL is a nonprofit, Yes, sir, was
that intentional?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No? I think for me, I before I even really
scaled that I was going to create a league, I
was always thinking about using basketball for the community, you know,
like creating leagues and tournaments for kids doing camp. So
I'm like, if I'm going to do that, I need
to do it by way of being a nonprofit where
I can get help and support from organizations or large corporations.
(11:41):
But man, like I said, after the first two years,
seeing my vision come to life, I just really was like,
you know, I got to make this bigger. So that's
why we don't really push in nonprofit nonprofit because we
know that like people sometimes take that as your bagging
or you you want something, until I really started understanding that, like, no,
(12:03):
nonprofits are also corporations that operate a lot of big
companies that people don't know is nonprofits. You know. But
we've been blessed. We've had some amazing corporate partners over
the years. You know. We just did a huge deal,
like a one of a kind unique thing with Turbo
Tax this summer with Turbo Tax is official type response
(12:24):
of ABL. We did the name patch on the jerseys,
So we've really been pushing that angle for you know,
basketball in this city.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, man, that's that's that's dope on the partnership. And look,
one thing I know about you, John, you stayed with
the partnerships, bro, Like, let me tell you, y'all stay.
I don't know how you work these but just tell people, like,
you know, how how do you find these these brands
and partners actually work with? Like how does that relationship
kind of start?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah? So for me it is very relationship driven. I've
been in the marketing advertising space for about eighteen plus
years now. I've interned or have contract work with majority
of all the major agencies at some point to kind
of learn that was like my entry point to this
side of the business. But for me, it's very relationship driven,
(13:11):
making sure that I'm always serviceable to people, you know,
asking them about like what they have going on, not
always coming to them with like, hey I got something
on Hey can you sponsor something? People don't know that
you know. Even when I was doing or creating ABL,
I used to be the brand partnership manager for a
three c hiby festival, so I kind of got my
(13:33):
relationships from there along with like all other stuff that
I was doing. I've been working with artists, a lot
of the Atlanta artists that are you know, hot or big. Now,
I was working with them when they first started to
help them leverage their brands, you know. But it's to me,
it's very relationship driven. And then I also research a lot,
you know, I'm always paying attention to these corporate brand trends,
(13:57):
what they're trying to attack, like who's their own for
the answer, because I know that, like, in order to
work with them, in order to get money, I got
to know who they're trying to target, you know, So
I put a lot of resource, so a lot of
people like man, you know, like you said, like man,
you work with all these brands. It's like I know
everything that I need to know about these brands before
I approach them to say, hey, let's work or if
(14:18):
hey can how can I help you? And typically I
lead with that, it's like, how can I help you?
What are you trying to do in Atlanta or the
Southeast I mean now our agency services, you know, brands
throughout the country, But it's always hey, how can I
help you? First? What can I do to lend my resources?
And knowledge and experience to you, and then that turned
(14:39):
into an ongoing relationship that benefits us both, you know.
So that's how I've been successful in that space. I've
taken some brands that you know, some people know, some
people don't to hold new heights that they've never really
even thought about going to. And then I've also helped
some brands that people may not really think that we
could work with as a culture, as black people, right
(15:01):
and say, yo, let's really do something. Let's make some
dope stuff happen in our city. And when I go
in these rooms, man, you know, and I know I
joke a lot about this, is that being from New York,
somebody that moved to Atlanta, you know, I know the
stigma is that, you know, everybody moved to Atlanta and
then tried to do their own thing. But I did
the exact opposite when I came here to go to
(15:21):
college and play college basketball and then moved into the
entrepreneur small business, you know, marketing space. I always went
and represented Atlanta, no matter if I was walking in
Nike Headquarters, Puma, Adidas, Papa John's, Jack Dais whoever, I'm
always talking about Atlanta. Who's making moves, who's doing different
things that need to be supported in celebrated. So I
(15:44):
never looked at it like as a job thing, and
I think truly that's what helped that representation because fifteen
years ago, nobody was really doing sponsorship. People didn't know
what that was. It was like almost like an air quote,
like how did you get smartship? You know what I mean?
Me and Mike Wahlberg former you know, owner and director
(16:05):
of A three C We you know, me and Mike
used to be in the trenches. You get what I'm saying, Like,
people don't know if I can, like when I do
tell a story about how I got to that point
where it's like working with brands and sponsorships are like
super easy because you got to know those things. You
gotta know the relationship. It's key. You gotta know what
they want. PBR, Red Bull, you know, like little brands
(16:27):
that were giving us like five hundred thousand dollars, but
we made it look like they was giving us ten
and fifteen thousand dollars and then it just took off
from there. Man. So you know, it's been an amazing
journey man, and I ain't done yet though.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now with all this What was it like in the
early days though, before you started bringing these brands on,
because you said you were paying for this stuff out
of pocket? Like when did it really kind of like
when was that moment where things kind of start to
change and you know you weren't you weren't spending as
much money.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
As you work before. Yeah, so I think I think
for me, like definitely empty my bank account, you know,
couldn't pay my mortgage. She went all in, Yeah, man,
I was like, I really believe in that model, man,
Like you know, I say it all the time. I
really bet on myself. I just knew this was gonna work. Look,
I left a good paying job at the Atlanta Hawks.
(17:27):
I stopped coaching AAU basketball which three of my guys
are in the NBA now Malcolm Brock then being one
of them. I was like, now I don't want to
do that, no one. I don't want to be a
like high school college coach, a coaching the NBA and whatever.
I literally depleted my bank account zero. I mean, I'm
scrambling acting friends like yo, can you help me out
this month? For about six months, man, and then I
(17:51):
really was like, yo, I gotta make this work, Like,
if anything is gonna work for me, this gotta be
it and then I can take care of everything later.
And I you know, first, I would say the first
three first three and a half years, everything was out
of my pocket. You know, I was moving. We were
not profitable yet, you know, we were like really like
(18:11):
right at the low end the negative, you know, like
we just were scratching bringing even. But I knew it
was worth it, you know. And then shout out the
Red Bull because Red Bull has been a supporter of
ABL since day one, so they kind of gave me
a little leverage to be able to start doing more
basketball that could create revenue for me. But I would
(18:31):
say that that major deal that like set it apart
was two thousand and fifteen, sixteen, we signed a five
year deal with Pepsi where Pepsi was pushing Mountain dude,
they had just signed the NBA deal, And that was
what like turned the knob where it was like, all right, okay,
we can make some money now, you know, we can't
(18:54):
get comfortable. But it set me up for the next
really the next three to five years to be able
to work with operate in budget and what about reinvesting
because again, a lot of people, man, people think that
you know, when they hear about companies making millions of
dollars that like all that money is just going into
the CEO and the owners pocket and they don't really
understand like they do. You might have a million top line, right,
you know, your expenses might be nine hundred and niney
(19:16):
nine thousand, right, So like from a reinvestment standpoint, what's
your perspective on that where you're saying, you know what,
we got this deal from PEPSI. Now we got these
partners coming in, Like I'm a I'm a hold off
on you know, paying myself fully what I'm worth. I'm
gonna make sure my team is taken care of or
did you just say, you know what, we gotta check
were gonna have a good time along with Noah till
this day. You know, I pay myself last, you know,
(19:36):
and sometimes I don't even pay myself if it's meaning
that my team got to get eat, you know, they
have to eat or we need to reinvest in the community.
That is very, very priority to everything that we do
at ABL. I think to date we've probably spent over
half a million dollars in community investment over the twelve years,
making sure that kids don't have to pay for basketball,
(19:58):
you know, going to camps, our kids to the Hawkes
games or Falcons games. Making sure that our volunteer coaches
and stuff have the resources that they need. So for us,
it's always reinvest into our brand so we can continue
to grow. Make sure that your team is taken care of.
And again, you're right, a lot of people look at
(20:18):
my personal social media and they're like, man, look at
his cars and he always traveling and he's doing this.
But but you don't realize is that I'm a serial entrepreneur.
So ABL actually isn't the breadwinner. ABL is just a
vehicle that I want to use for the community. As
a businessman, I'm doing tons of other things that allowed
me to use that lifestyle. And I had to really
(20:39):
start building my team in that way because they were
looking at it like, well, damn, you know you got
all this money, and I'm like, nah, I'm building to
the money and you guys are part of it. So
you know, as we've been going these last twelve years,
I would say like the last seven years to be exact,
is when we've really started like bringing on full time
and part times staff. You know, making sure that we
(21:01):
have a three sixty five approach where there's always a
working capital for whatever we want to do. Like if
we like Yo, B, we're gonna link up with butter
and we're gonna go feed the community. Notice I'm never
like we don't got no money. It's like, B, let's go,
let's go do it and then we'll figure out what
we need to do on the back end. So ABL
our businesses just as a whole, me as a businessman,
(21:23):
I'm taken that approach of you last right, if you
do it the way that you're supposed to do it,
you're gonna eat. You're gonna eat regardless, and you're gonna
be able to set yourself up for future success. So
you know, that's priority to us to make sure that
our staff, our community, and the people that are kind
of in the ABL community are supported. You know, that's
(21:44):
what our sponsorships and you know we don't people don't
know this a lot of times. That's why I think
they don't come to ABL all the time, is that
it's free to get in. Yeah, we don't charge, we
don't charge for parking, we don't charge for entry, So
sometimes that can be missed kind of like because you're
like it's free or I can go whenever, you know
what I mean. But if we can't because we are
(22:05):
NBA sanctioned league, and what that means is we're basically
just like NBA Summer League in Vegas. We're just based
in Atlanta and they allow us to have their shield
for NBA players NWNBA players now to come play at
the league. And then we're also NCAA sanction which allows
the college players to come and play, so we can't
(22:26):
charge entry or parking. What people also don't know about
ABL is that the reason why I created the whole
mantra of free and it for the community is because
when you're a kid growing up in the hood and
your mom and dad don't have it, you can't go
to us a hawked game to see your favorite NBA player,
(22:47):
You can't go to a concert to see the artists
that you love. So we bring those people to the
community for free, you know. And that's really like why
ABL is so special, man. It's you know, Keisha said it,
what she gave us our proclamation is that ABL has
become the fabric of the Atlanta community because we're the
centerfold that brings all of it together. You know. There's
(23:09):
not too many places that can do that. Yeah. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
You know what's interesting too, is you talked about like
how you came down here from New York and you
kind of embraced Atlanta. I think a lot of people whatever,
they come from out of town and they look at
us like, oh man, these folks are slow.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
They don't get it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm gonna come down here and show them how to
do it the right way. But you know, always say, like,
you know, Atlanta will support you if you embit yourself
from the community and if you build something in public
and you do it the right way.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Is that kind of what your experience is. Yeah? Yeah,
I think when I came I definitely didn't come with
that mantra because I was already in the South. So
I finished school and finished college in South Carolina, which
is way slow it in yeah, Atlanta, you know. So
when I got here, what I saw was a lot
of successful black people that all come from different walks
(23:56):
of life, similar to myself growing up in New York.
I saw a lot of like support. It seemed like
everybody rock with each other. It was so like it
was unified. It was like no matter what events you
went to, it was like you And that's literally probably
how me and you met was like just seeing each
other at multiple events. So for me, it was like,
(24:16):
I'm very strategic in figuring out where I can approach
things that need to be done. So when I came,
it was like, all right, music is thing I love.
I always thought I was going to be in the
music industry as well. It was like either make it
to the NBA or be in the music industry. So
when I came and I started kind of networking in
the music space. I interned that grand hustle with Atlantic Records,
(24:40):
you know, I started my own management company where we
were supporting local artists and producers, helping them bridge out
of Atlanta. I saw the open it. I was like,
but you know, my real love and passion is basketball,
and I don't see community basketball in this city the
way that I would have seen it, you know, like
growing up in New So I think for me it
(25:02):
was more like, let me make something big for this
city using basketball. That was literally like I still got
my little marble notebook that I wrote it down. It
was like, make basketball better in Atlanta, cause I don't
like it. Like when I go to the gyms, it
don't it's no energy. They we did have Nike Pro
City League here while I was in college. I forget
what years stopped, but it was almost private, and I
(25:25):
mean iverson shack. Everybody was playing, but it was like,
whatn't nobody in the stands. I'm like, bro, this feels
like like a morning run than a league, you know
what I'm saying. So, and I mean they of course
they had their like height end weekends or whatever, but
I just knew that, like whatever I built, I wanted
it to be for Atlanta because this city helped me
(25:48):
get my dreams out. You know, I don't think people
say all the time, do you think you could have
did this in New York? Yeah, but it's fifteen million
basketball leagues in New York. Literally every neighborhood has their
own basketball leage. In Atlanta, we didn't have that. So
I think this city, even though we get kind of
tied up only to music, I think I saw the
bigger part of just being able to level and get
(26:11):
to where I wanted to be as a black man
and a business owner that this city provided so I've
always respected and you know, obviously I'm fighting for it
now too, you know. So, Nah, I definitely think this
city kind of helped me get to where I'm at
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, that's one of the beautiful things about Atlanta. Man,
in Atlanta, it's still possible, you know what I mean.
I think for a lot of places you travel, you
go around, whether you're trying to buy a house or
you know, start a family, it's hard in some of
these bigger cities. You know, it's hard to go buy
a house in New York and kind of you know,
lock in. It's tell it's hard to get an apartment
in the Years Act, you know what I'm saying. But again,
I think when you when you think about Atlanta, even
(26:46):
though we joke around and say we're full and all
this stuff, there's just still so much potential down here.
You just got to tap into it. Yeah, And like
I said before, if you do it the right way,
the city will support you. Like, things are much more
accessible down here than they are in other places. And
plus you got people you have again, people with jobs
down here with money that can come in and support
it and do stuff. But again, it's it's much more
(27:06):
possible down here than it is in a lot of
other places. Now, one of the things you were talking
about too, was, you know, putting your team together. And
that's something I've kind of heard from a lot of
(27:27):
people is that's been one of the hardest parts of
kind of building this business, like kind of putting that
core team together, people that you can support and trust.
How's that been. Where did you find those people at?
Have you had to kind of like go through different
iterations of it, or has there been something else that's
been a little bit more difficult than like building a
team to help get ABO to where it's at.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of it all. Man.
I think that the right team is key. You know,
I hear and and this is coming from like just
going through it and cause you're like, yo, I got people.
You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, I know this
is Mary right. Yeah, let me you know, I need
a full team. Yes, you can do it by yourself
(28:06):
up to a certain degree. I do believe in that,
and I do want to share that expression to other entrepreneurs,
is that it is being pushed right now that you
need a team. You gotta have a CPA. You got
to have a lawyer. You got to start first, start first,
and then figure out what you are good at and
then figure out what you're not good at to find
(28:27):
those people. And you got to have the right people,
and it has to be very aligned to Yes, everybody
want to be paid, everybody want to make money, but
it's like, ultimately, while we're making this money, you got
to have a passion for what we're building too, because
if you don't, it ain't gonna work. Not for me.
Now for other business structures it may. It may I
(28:47):
need employees to show up, be here physically, clock in,
clock out, and go on with yourself. For me, I
can't do that. You got to believe in it. You
got to understand where we're trying to go. And I
think the hardest part for me and I literally this
is almost like an epiphany right now that I'm talking
to you about this, because I said, as many people
that have come through the ABL brand, and I could
(29:10):
probably name twenty of them right off the top that
are now super successful and really doing good and what
they're doing. I say that like, if I knew what
I knew now, I could have walked away from this
business a long time ago and let them run it.
But we all were learning. We didn't know. We were
trying to figure things out. Like if I knew what
I knew now, I was like, yo, Jo, you don't
(29:32):
got to be there every day and do everything. Do
what you're good at, which is your partnerships, the business development,
you know, working behind the scenes and make sure the
relationships with the players are good and let these people
run it. You know, I'm not very tactical, and I
tell people that all the time. I'm more strategic, so
I think and I go right by the time you
(29:54):
see me do something, the strategy was created way before
you saw it. Whereas you got to have people that
can fold in between, like the passion. They want to
get paid and they see the big picture too. And
I think, unfortunately we're in the generation where everybody's like,
I want it now, I want to be the boss
right there. It's no more internship, it's no more development.
(30:16):
It's like I got an idea, I'm going you know,
and then those same people come back to you and
then they're like, I need an opportunity, and I'm like, well,
you got to start from scratch. Yeah, you might be
successful over here, but with us, you got to start
from scratch. And I think any of my staff will
tell you that that everybody at ABL that's getting paid
now started for free. It's just our way. It's because
(30:40):
I got to know that you believe in it the
way we believe in it. You might not have my
safe vision because I'm the brains, but you got to
believe in it in your way, like your thing, Like
my god, that's right there behind you with the camera
started for free, came and shot our games, edited, cut it.
I'd be like, yo, show up, I'm going to radio.
He coming. I'm going to do this with my son
at this football game. He come in. So now it's
(31:02):
like when I'm going to look for money and I'm
going to try to find ways to bring revenue in.
I'm thinking about those people, like how can I may
not be able to give you everything. And I think
that's the part that I also want to express it
that your value one place may not be the same
somewhere else. You got to go with the people who
(31:23):
value you. They may not have all the money. You
get what I'm saying, And I preach that a lot
because I deal with it. I'm sure you deal with
it where we know what I should be making a
million dollars every time I talk to you. You get
what I'm saying, But I know that may not be
your budget. I know you may not have that right now.
And to go back to your point about the relationships
with the sponsors, I've done things for one thousand dollars.
(31:46):
That's somebody that does not have had the experience that
I have or the knowledge or the relationships are charging
you twenty thousand dollars for so guess what you charge
a twenty just because you're like, I'm worth twenty thousand
dollars and they like, we don't got it, and you're
not willing to budge or be flexible. They told me
they had a thousand. I made it work. Guess what.
(32:10):
I made it work so good that they trust me
now that now they got a million dollars and they like,
give it to him. You see what I'm saying, because
he save my model. My model is a lot of
these corporate brands model, and I get it. We fight
against it all the time because we like, we know
y'all got money. You get what I'm saying, But sometimes
we're not the only person they're doing business with. So
(32:31):
I try to take that same approach that I take
on the marketing and the advertising side and really do
that with my team. Like, man, I ain't got ten
g's to give you right now, I ain't got but seven.
But if you believe in trusting what we're doing, I'm
gonna go get you ten more. You get what I'm saying.
You might not get it right then and there on
that project you're working on, but the next project, we
(32:53):
gonna double down and we're gonna get more money, and
I'm gonna look out for you. So I think now
businesses are so social media too, because everybody it's a
highlight reel. So everybody look like they're getting money, right,
So then when you go to hire somebody and they
go to your Instagram, they're like, oh, he got money.
But yeah, I got money, But my business is still
(33:14):
growing and developing and I'm still investing in it. But
it's a growth thing. And then you got to pay.
I tell my kids, the kids that are around me
who want to be entrepreneurs, you got to put your
skin in the game by helping somebody else. It's okay,
you're going to be a boss. Too help somebody else,
bill help them navigate to their dreams. Because guess what,
(33:35):
in some capacities you can get I don't know every capacity,
but some capacities you can get paid to learn on
the job, and or you're learning free gain that nobody
else can get and that will help you so you
don't got to pay for it later. And I think
that's where I really try to dive in and really
double down on. Like how I build my team, I
(33:59):
try to build with people who are very smart, you know,
a lot of time smarter than me in places, have
a passion in a drive and assertiveness to go out
and get it right, whatever that realm is. And then
also believe in the unified front of what we're trying
to accomplish, because you can accomplish anything with a dope team.
We did it, you know what I'm saying. We're all
(34:21):
successful in our own right and we came together and
now we're looking to even double our pockets, you know
what I'm saying. But while we're doing good and creating
more jobs so people, you know, some people will be like, nah,
that's not the right way, but everybody's approach is different.
My approach is to make sure that I'm also developing
the next entrepreneurs, the next leaders of our city, whether
(34:42):
they do basketball, music, marketing, whatever it may be. I
don't think there's and I'm a really humble brag on this.
I think that I've put more money in this city
in the last ten years than a lot of corporate
companies that are worth billions of dollars. Just because I share,
I don't I'm going to meet and be like, yeah,
(35:03):
hell yeah, caught Butter. That's my guy. You know what
I mean. I know he gonna do. Oh you want
to do this, you want to market, you want to
go to Butter. It ain't gonna cut my pocket. You
get what I'm saying. I'm calling and I've always done that,
and everybody in the city that is really the people
that we rock with, the leaders, will say your job
always look out. Now, I can't make brands do what
(35:24):
they don't want to do, but it don't matter. Be
you could come to me and say, Yo, bro, were
trying to do a Butter helicopter. I'm like, YO, to
give me a second. Let me let me see who
I can call that got a helicopter. It ain't gonna
hurt me, bro, And what it also I'm gonna do
is gonna build a lot of respect with you, and
it's gonna build respect with the people that we go
to because I'm like, damn, he did that easy, he
(35:45):
didn't like, yo, I need a commission off that. And
I just think, Man, for me, it's like I'm still
learning every day. Bro. I try to pay attention to
people who are doing unique things and that are successful
in their way and take bits and pieces of it.
And I think, ultimately, for me as I go into
this next phase of trying to go to the next level,
(36:05):
the key to it is having a great team, man.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know, yeah, I mean like I think hustle culture,
you know, I think hustle culture has like really kind
of done a lot of people in this service.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Because I agree with.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
You, man, Like I always tell people, I don't know
why everybody's so in a rush to be an entrepreneur.
First of all, this shit is hard, you know. Second
of all, I learned so much in corporate America while
getting paid, you know, to basically understand how to send
an email, to understand how to run a meeting, right, Like,
I can't imagine my career without having that experience. It's
(36:36):
like literally you getting paid to learn how to work.
And I think so many people kind of skip over
that part and all of a sudden you get them.
They don't know how to run a meeting, they can't
send an email, they don't know how to do followed,
they couldn't put a deck together because they literally got
no experience in But again why but they saw it online?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
They think issues we're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And I think that's a big issue in Atlanta is
we got a lot of people that are just like
hustling trying to figure something out because they've discounted the
idea of like working or working for free or just learning.
But like, at the end of the day, there's a
lot of people out here that were probably really good.
You know, number two's number threes, Number four is in
a company, but they're so busy trying to be a
(37:11):
number one, and they don't know why they stressed out.
You stressed out because you should need to be in
that place in the first pot. You know, you stressed
out because you put yourself in a position to run
a business and to run I literally had somebody talk
to me the other week about how a company they
were working with, like the CEO basically disappeared because they
were running out of money and the CEO didn't even
know how to communicate to his team that we're dealing
(37:32):
with financial issues right now. And it really makes me wonder,
like that that person actually had that experience. Has he
been through that fire before or is he's figuring it
out now? He's taking it all personal, right, So, you know,
I tell people all the time because I get it
with Butter. All the time people come to me, oh, man,
I want to work with you. I want to help you.
It's like, all right, cool, And the first thing they
do is they have their hands out. Well, I got
to get paid though. Look I tell everybody the same thing.
(37:55):
You can't work for me until you work for me.
You know, I literally give so one of the things
I do is I give people little projects. I say,
you know what, I'll give you an option. You can
either be an intern or I'm gonna get this little
project and I'm gonna pay you one hundred bucks. I'm gonna
pay you for it. But I want to see what
your work product is like. I want to see if
you're gonna return these emails all. I do it all
the time. I give people a little project. I'll say,
(38:16):
you know, some light, I just want to see how
they come back to me. Is your stuff gonna be
organized or is it just gonna send me a bunch
of emails that don't make sense?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And it's again, you don't know how people work until
you actually see them work. And I think, especially as entrepreneurs,
that's a lot of risk on us because you know,
people don't understand that. When you hire somebody, that's one thing,
but losing a person can set you back because now
they done fucked up. Yeah, and they don't mess something up.
They didn't tell you it was broken and now you
got to fix it. So losing people can be even
(38:46):
more dangerous than hiring the right people. So you know,
that's a little trick that I try to do, is
you can't work for me until you work for me.
I'm gonna give you some kind of little project to
start off with. Yeah, I think that's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think I'm incorporating that because see, I'll be and
you know, and you know, because you you operated multiple channels,
but it's so hard to find people, bro So so
it's like when you finally get a person You're like,
well that come on, just good. You know, you seem
to you checked off the boxes. But you're right, man,
Like I'm actually, man, I'm gonna steal that from you. Man.
(39:18):
So when you start hearing me talk about you, like, yeah,
I told them on the podcasts, But yeah, man, I
think I think you're You're right because I think when
you actually realize. And that's why I say about my
the first phase of ABL team was all these people
now are successful doing their own thing, and I've always
stressed to them like, hey, use this platform to go
(39:39):
do you, but while you're here, do us, like, do
what you got to do here. And I think if
I could take that and bottle that up in some
way and for my next five years, take a little
bit of what you just said, I think I can
build the next generation of executives in sports. You get
what I'm saying, because they learned so much on the fly.
(40:01):
But a lot of these kids they see you and
they like, I can do that too, But they think
they can do it now, not like hey in a
couple of years, Joe, how long did it take you
to be able to do this? They like, well, you
do it. I can do it, and I'm like, it
don't work like that. And then as soon as you
give them the real that's the other misfortunate about this generation.
(40:22):
When you give them that real conversation that we was
looking for from the ogs, like, yo, bro, tell me
I'm doing this wrong, so I can fix it, they disappear.
Yeah they can't. They don't. They can't. They can't. They
can't take it. They can't take the feedback yet, you know.
So that's that's been extremely hard, bro. But yeah, look man,
so again y'all.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
The hardest thing out here for a lot of these businesses,
like Josh said, is building a team.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
For getting the right team. I say this all the time.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
A A PLUS team with even a decent idea will
go way farther than a C team with an amazing idea.
Like you have to have the people around you, and
you can only do so much as an entrepreneur by yourself,
you know. Think like I've learned that lesson many times.
I've been burnt out, you know, because I'm trying to
do everything. I'm trying to run over here and support
everybody and get all this stuff. But again, when you
(41:07):
start finding those people that can really do it, you know,
hold on to them, take care of them, and they
will just help you get your stuff to the next level.
So with all the stuff you got going on, Y're like,
what's next with ABL, Like, what's kind of your global
vision for for all the stuff you want?
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah? Man, So what's next for a b L is this,
and I have dropped it a little bit, is that
we we are working on creating like a G league
or minor league system for the w n b A.
I think that the women's game we've been in the
forefront of it. Obviously there's there's other people doing it
as well, but I don't think nobody doing it like
(41:41):
we do it out to.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Women too, because the NCAA even the gold medal game
for the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, so you know, we're we're we're working on that. Actually,
wanted to put that into operations next going into next year,
probably right as March Madness is. It'll be something that
is kind of a subsidiary, but it will not be
the pro am. We'll still have our women's program, but
we'll have like a league that pays women. Hopefully, you know,
(42:11):
we'll get some investments and some people that believe in
where women's basketball is going, so we can pay these
women what they deserve. And then for US man, we're
already looking at a global opportunity to expand what our
footprints are. So we do the HBCU Elite one hundred,
which is a bridge to get high schools through the
(42:31):
athletes to HBCUs to play. We're talking with NBA Africa
about bringing that HBCU over to Africa to create a
program there. Obviously some other international countries have reached out
to us about it as well. So expanding beyond the
US is what's next for us. That's kind of in
(42:53):
my five year kind of global plan is to make
sure that we're touching multiple countries to bring is that
gap for basketball in the grassroots space. Obviously pro is
you know, they have pro leagues all over the world,
but they're missing that grassroot part. There's a lot of countries,
i e. Africa, the Virgin Islands that don't have those
(43:15):
you know, those resources, so we're going to try to
bring those to them. I'm super excited about our Career
Pathways program. It's a program where we take our college
high school students and we start developing them now so
they don't have to wait to do the internship after
school where they're learning media. They're learning marketing and game ops,
event management, pr all those type of things. So we've
(43:39):
had some huge success over the past two and a
half years. It will be going intop third year where
we place some people. A lot of my staff work
at Ote, Atlanta Hawks, Atlanta Dream, Nike, you name it.
You know, we got staff that has been with us
when they first started into their career journeys that are
in some really great positions. My form or executive assistant,
(44:01):
Jenessa is now the community direct at Nike, you know.
So I feel like we're doing a good job. Obviously,
I want to do a better job because I want
to be able to give more jobs out. But I'm
excited about that, man, and continuously just building a brand
to be looked at as a go to not just league,
but an organization in Atlanta in the country to serve
(44:22):
our community. Man. So that's really what's important to me. Obviously,
just continuing to build up these partnerships a lot of brands,
like you know, we have a big deal with Adidas
where we got our own shoe, you know. So it's
like continuing to make this a big brand where it's
respected and people like when you think of Atlanta Basketball,
you think of ABL. Yeah, that's that's really the vision. Man. No, man,
(44:45):
that's dope. Man.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Look before we get out of here, tell folks how
can they learn more about ABL the stuff you're working on.
How can they support how can they find y'all?
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, So we love everyone's support by following us at
ABL Hoops. Our website is ABL hoops dot com. We
are celebrating our championship weekend this weekend at KIP Atlanta
Collegiate on the West Side every summer, every Saturday and
Sunday for eight weeks. As I said, it's always free
for the community and for me, man, just you know,
(45:13):
be a resource network with me, talk to me, let
me know what you're doing. See how we can help
each other on my social pages job a CEO on Instagram,
and let's just keep empowering our people man in this city.
And I think as long as we keep doing that, man,
the support for us to keep, you know, keep coming.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
So yep, yo, shout out to John, Thanks for pulling
up man. This has been an amazing conversation and that's
the pod.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You've been listening to butter Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, comments feedback. Want to be a part of
the show, Send us an email today at Hello at
butterdomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia
at iHeartMedia by Ramsey, with marketing support from Queen and Nike.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Music provided by mister Hanky.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never
missed an episode, and be sure to follow us on
all our social platforms at butter dot a t L.
Listen to button NoMix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
The right team is key because you're like, yo, I
got people. You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, I
know this versus they can do this right, you know,
like yeah, let me you know, I need a full team. Yes,
you can do it by yourself up to a certain degree.
It is being pushed right now that you need a team.
You gotta have a CPA. You got to have a lawyer.
You got to start first, start first, and then figure
(00:23):
out what you are good at and then figure out
what you're not good at to find those people. And
you got to have the right people, and it has
to be very aligned to Yes, everybody want to be paid,
everybody want to make money, but it's like, ultimately, while
we're making this money, you got to have a passion
for what we're building too, because if you don't, it
ain't gonna work.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
What's going on, y'all? Welcome to another episode of butter Nomics.
I am your host, Brandon Butler, and we have a
special special guest in here today, a friend, a homie,
my boy, Joe Rawlins of abl Joe. How you doing man,
I'm doing good man, Thanks for having me. Hey man,
glad to pull up. Now, you know a lot of
folks know me and Job. We work together on a
couple of things. A little thing called four or four day.
(01:10):
We got some more stuff up, a little something something.
We were talking about some other stuff right now. Man, Job,
he runs a ton of brands, a ton of companies
around Atlanta, and they're all over the place. But you know,
you're probably most known for ABL. Josh So, like, just
tell people real quick, how did that get started?
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah? So ABL is now twelve years old. We're celebrating
our twelve summer this year. Congratulations, appreciate it. Man. So
growing up originally from New York, obviously basketball is king
in New York, especially in the summer, and I always
just envision like creating my own tournament. Really growing up,
I didn't know what that was gonna be. I just
(01:46):
always when I played in tournaments, I was always the
guy that was like, damn, how they put this together?
How they get all these teams, you know, like teams
coming from all over the place. And then when I
moved to Atlanta to come here to play college basketball
at Georgia Perimeter, I was like, hemn, Atlanta's missing something
in the summer. I was like, music is hot. You know,
black power entrepreneurship. You know, you see a lot of
(02:08):
wealthy people, celebrities. We call it black Hollywood. So I'm like, man,
the Hawks there are NBA franchise, but they don't necessarily
do summer basketball. So I was like, man, I want
to bring what I grew up in New York to
Atlanta where I confused the music, sports, and community together.
So twelve years ago, Man I was working at the
(02:28):
Atlanta Hawks by way doing basketball development, and I was like, man,
I really just want to get out and do my
own thing and really see if I can take basketball
to a new height and start an ABL organization. People
don't know ABEL is a nonprofit. I know we work
with a lot of big brands, but we are nonprofit organization.
Our first event was actually a celebrity charity game where
(02:51):
it was the first time people had sort of migos.
So we did it at Grady High School which is
now Midtown High School, and we had everybody come out,
all the celebrities, and once I seen that, I was like, yeah,
I know, I'm gonna do this summer league. So the
next year, that was twenty twelve. Christmas twenty thirteen, we
launched the Pro am League man, So.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
And how just so folks know, like when you're putting
this league together, like how'd you find players? Like how
do you go from zero to one on something like that?
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Yeah, I mean it. Just like I said, I was
already in the basketball community. You know, I coached AAU,
so I knew a lot of the guys that were
going to college are playing pro. And then I reached
out to the guys that I kind of came up
with that were either coaches, you know, on the collegiate
level or agents or whatever. And I was like, y'all
really want to do this, and you know, our first
real support man. And I really try to let people
(03:41):
know that these people help us get it off the
ground with awareness. So like Lou Will, who is one
of our guys who've been with us from the beginning.
You know, Lou was Lou six man, Lou you know,
every the NBA star's favorite star, you know. And then
shout out the Streeter X and two Chains, Trinidad James,
like k Camp, Like I said to Migos, those guys
(04:03):
were kind of with us at the beginning. So you
got to think, if I'm creating a basketball league and
then I already got these guys that people know and
they're pulling up. You know, people just was like, Yo,
we need to go play. But I will say the
first two years man out the Gate. My vision was
to create an outdoor summer basketball league, just like the
Rugy of New York. You know. The first year we
(04:24):
played straight the asphalt. You know, we just put out
call out. Social media had just became a big thing,
so we like, yo, you want to play ABL, come out,
So players would come out. You obviously, the teams that
we had in they knew players or they have a
network of players. Second year, you know, my big mind
and my big dreams that I got, Bro, I brought
out the hardwood that's like at State Farm Arena to
(04:47):
Central Park, getting the fourth ward, you know what I mean.
And crazy enough, Bro, that was like one of the
like pivotal points in ABL because man, that court probably
because like fifty thousand had to pay like I want
to say, somewhere between fifteen hundred and eighteen hundred a
weekend because the city wouldn't let us keep it down,
(05:08):
so I had to keep taking it up and putting
it down every weekend. And then the weather so as
you know, it can be ninety degrees and the damn
you know, the sun of disappearing and then world drop
out in Atlanta. So it rained every other weekend. So
what I realized, I was like, yo, I don't really
want to go inside. I mean I thought it every week. Man.
(05:31):
My team was like, yo, just let's go inside. I'm like, nah,
we wait until six o'clock, you know, to see if
this is going rain or not. And literally every we
only got to play three weekends on the court out
of six weeks or seven weekends because we used to
go seven weekends. But when we went in that gym,
it turned into a whole different thing. Because Atlanta or
(05:51):
Georgia is known for more indoor basketball. High Flyers, New York, Chicago,
you know, the bigger basketball cities in the sense are
used to playing outdoor, you know. So when we did that, Man,
when when that vision shifted to go to the gym
a little bit, I think it changed the whole scope
of what we now know as abl Now.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Job man, look man, now you know good and will
these folks in Atlanta down here, Like I remember when
the Falcons was getting ready to build that new stadium
and they were like, Oh, it's gonna be open air.
I said, let me tell y'all something. Ain't nobody going
to the football game in Atlanta open air? Like people
coming out there.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
And they heels on showtime.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
It's showtime, right, So you know, it was one thing
when you were out there outside. When you moved in,
it feels like that's what, But no, the crazy thing
is no man like.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
I think the women really liked it because it was
the you know, the summer flair, like they can sit courtside.
So when I say I think the the narrative ship.
It was more for the players. The fans loved it.
People to this day asking us when y'all gonna do
another outdoor league or outdoor tournament. I think it was
the players because they weren't used to playing in the
(06:55):
open air, you know, like New York or like the
street ball vibe, like it's it's a thing. Now in
Atlanta we do a lot like Red Bull, you know,
we do three on three outside whatever. But back then
it was still like we play indoors with air condition.
We ain't outside with the heat. The people enjoyed it
because they can come, they can see it. You ain't
got to be all the way in the mix. And
then the women. I mean, obviously ABL is dominated by
(07:19):
you know, the women, Atlanta is dominated by women, but
I think it was more so the players, you know.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
No man, and so you talked about some of people
that pulled up like there was a moment when Kyrie
came out there, Like what was that?
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Like it was what took us to where we are now?
For sure. I feel like that. You know, Lou Chains,
Migos kkm are city guys kind of help us start
the first five years. He came on the sixth year
and I still tell people to this day, bro, like
that was only God, Bro, because what are the chances
(07:51):
of this? Think about this. Kyrie's in Atlanta shooting a movie, right,
he was shooting Uncle Drew. Yeah, he pulls up to
the ABL. It wasn't playing. We didn't know. I had
talked to him and his sister, and you know, he
already had knew about ABEL because he's seen all of
the other NBA guys playing in it. But he comes
in place. He's in a green uniform. Think about this, bro,
(08:13):
He's in a green uniform on Monday after he wins
the championship, he gets traded to the boss of Celtics.
It's no way that happened, bro, Like, you couldn't even
we couldn't plan that even if he told me, like, yo, man,
you know Monday, I'm getting traded to the Boys and Celtics.
I can't be like, yo, you know what on this weekend,
(08:33):
we're gonna put him on the team that's in green.
We didn't know that that team was gonna win. That
team just happened to be Lou Wills team, you know.
So when Kyrie came in, I would say, for me,
there's three guys that has come to our league outside
of our guys that you know, the Lou Wills and
Jaylen Brown's that always support us. When Kyrie came in,
(08:55):
he took every picture, he signed, every autograph, he played
with the kids while they were on the court. He's
stuck around after the game, like, and you talking about Kyrie, Kyrie,
this is Kyrie at the height, you know what I mean? Like,
you don't really see that. Man. Most guys have come,
you know, play and then they like yo, I gotta go.
They might even leave before the game is over. So
(09:15):
I feel like that moment for us as a league
and as representing Atlanta Basketball, showed the city what we
were coming with. But it also showed me that like
you don't really got to bage people, you know what
I'm saying, Like if they want to really do community
and they want to be about it, they want to
show up and give back in their way, that's the example.
You know. So man, we haven't looked back since, you know,
(09:38):
so it's been exciting to see you know, this league
grow into It's actually grown tremendously faster than I thought
it would. I'll be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What's that like for the players Because you got again,
you got these you know, amateur and I'm not say
an amateur in a bad way, but you got guys
you know, they're pro semi probe and all of a
sudden they see a Kyrie pull up or lou Will
pull up. Like just from a players standpoint, yeah, are
they trying the buses?
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Ass?
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Every and and and shout out to Trey Young. But
when we so we scheduled trade like we knew what
day he was coming, we knew who he was gonna play.
Like one of our guys, Chris CHRAMARTI that something may
know Chris has been in the league, you know, since
we started it. I mean, Chris went crazy on them,
(10:23):
like he was like, I'm gonna prove my point, Like yeah,
you're Trey Young, the guy for the Hogs. But when
it comes to this city basketball, were going at your neck.
So all the guys, any NBA players that come through
a bl we always match him up against our best
and they go they go hard against him, and not
in a way that like we don't respect you, but like, yo,
(10:44):
I'm gonna earn my respect too. And that's our model.
And that's what all of our guys breed. We earned.
Our model has earned your name. So when you come
we don't care of you in the NBA. You got
to earn your name. You got to get the respect
from the city. You gotta get the respect from the
players in our league. You know. Now when you go
off and we root for you in the in the
in the NBA, that's a whole different thing. But yeah, man,
(11:04):
the guys they take it serious and they want people
to know that our league is the best program in
the country.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Now, now you said something interesting I want to kind
of go back to for a second. You said, in
the beginning that ABL is a nonprofit, Yes, sir, was
that intentional?
Speaker 1 (11:17):
No? I think for me, I before I even really
scaled that I was going to create a league, I
was always thinking about using basketball for the community, you know,
like creating leagues and tournaments for kids doing camp. So
I'm like, if I'm going to do that, I need
to do it by way of being a nonprofit where
I can get help and support from organizations or large corporations.
(11:41):
But man, like I said, after the first two years,
seeing my vision come to life, I just really was like,
you know, I got to make this bigger. So that's
why we don't really push in nonprofit nonprofit because we
know that like people sometimes take that as your bagging
or you you want something, until I really started understanding that, like, no,
(12:03):
nonprofits are also corporations that operate a lot of big
companies that people don't know is nonprofits. You know. But
we've been blessed. We've had some amazing corporate partners over
the years. You know. We just did a huge deal,
like a one of a kind unique thing with Turbo
Tax this summer with Turbo Tax is official type response
(12:24):
of ABL. We did the name patch on the jerseys,
So we've really been pushing that angle for you know,
basketball in this city.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, man, that's that's that's dope on the partnership. And look,
one thing I know about you, John, you stayed with
the partnerships, bro, Like, let me tell you, y'all stay.
I don't know how you work these but just tell people, like,
you know, how how do you find these these brands
and partners actually work with? Like how does that relationship
kind of start?
Speaker 1 (12:48):
Yeah? So for me it is very relationship driven. I've
been in the marketing advertising space for about eighteen plus
years now. I've interned or have contract work with majority
of all the major agencies at some point to kind
of learn that was like my entry point to this
side of the business. But for me, it's very relationship driven,
(13:11):
making sure that I'm always serviceable to people, you know,
asking them about like what they have going on, not
always coming to them with like, hey I got something
on Hey can you sponsor something? People don't know that
you know. Even when I was doing or creating ABL,
I used to be the brand partnership manager for a
three c hiby festival, so I kind of got my
(13:33):
relationships from there along with like all other stuff that
I was doing. I've been working with artists, a lot
of the Atlanta artists that are you know, hot or big. Now,
I was working with them when they first started to
help them leverage their brands, you know. But it's to me,
it's very relationship driven. And then I also research a lot,
you know, I'm always paying attention to these corporate brand trends,
(13:57):
what they're trying to attack, like who's their own for
the answer, because I know that, like, in order to
work with them, in order to get money, I got
to know who they're trying to target, you know, So
I put a lot of resource, so a lot of
people like man, you know, like you said, like man,
you work with all these brands. It's like I know
everything that I need to know about these brands before
I approach them to say, hey, let's work or if
(14:18):
hey can how can I help you? And typically I
lead with that, it's like, how can I help you?
What are you trying to do in Atlanta or the
Southeast I mean now our agency services, you know, brands
throughout the country, But it's always hey, how can I
help you? First? What can I do to lend my resources?
And knowledge and experience to you, and then that turned
(14:39):
into an ongoing relationship that benefits us both, you know.
So that's how I've been successful in that space. I've
taken some brands that you know, some people know, some
people don't to hold new heights that they've never really
even thought about going to. And then I've also helped
some brands that people may not really think that we
could work with as a culture, as black people, right
(15:01):
and say, yo, let's really do something. Let's make some
dope stuff happen in our city. And when I go
in these rooms, man, you know, and I know I
joke a lot about this, is that being from New York,
somebody that moved to Atlanta, you know, I know the
stigma is that, you know, everybody moved to Atlanta and
then tried to do their own thing. But I did
the exact opposite when I came here to go to
(15:21):
college and play college basketball and then moved into the
entrepreneur small business, you know, marketing space. I always went
and represented Atlanta, no matter if I was walking in
Nike Headquarters, Puma, Adidas, Papa John's, Jack Dais whoever, I'm
always talking about Atlanta. Who's making moves, who's doing different
things that need to be supported in celebrated. So I
(15:44):
never looked at it like as a job thing, and
I think truly that's what helped that representation because fifteen
years ago, nobody was really doing sponsorship. People didn't know
what that was. It was like almost like an air quote,
like how did you get smartship? You know what I mean?
Me and Mike Wahlberg former you know, owner and director
(16:05):
of A three C We you know, me and Mike
used to be in the trenches. You get what I'm saying, Like,
people don't know if I can, like when I do
tell a story about how I got to that point
where it's like working with brands and sponsorships are like
super easy because you got to know those things. You
gotta know the relationship. It's key. You gotta know what
they want. PBR, Red Bull, you know, like little brands
(16:27):
that were giving us like five hundred thousand dollars, but
we made it look like they was giving us ten
and fifteen thousand dollars and then it just took off
from there. Man. So you know, it's been an amazing
journey man, and I ain't done yet though.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Now with all this What was it like in the
early days though, before you started bringing these brands on,
because you said you were paying for this stuff out
of pocket? Like when did it really kind of like
when was that moment where things kind of start to
change and you know you weren't you weren't spending as
much money.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
As you work before. Yeah, so I think I think
for me, like definitely empty my bank account, you know,
couldn't pay my mortgage. She went all in, Yeah, man,
I was like, I really believe in that model, man,
Like you know, I say it all the time. I
really bet on myself. I just knew this was gonna work. Look,
I left a good paying job at the Atlanta Hawks.
(17:27):
I stopped coaching AAU basketball which three of my guys
are in the NBA now Malcolm Brock then being one
of them. I was like, now I don't want to
do that, no one. I don't want to be a
like high school college coach, a coaching the NBA and whatever.
I literally depleted my bank account zero. I mean, I'm
scrambling acting friends like yo, can you help me out
this month? For about six months, man, and then I
(17:51):
really was like, yo, I gotta make this work, Like,
if anything is gonna work for me, this gotta be
it and then I can take care of everything later.
And I you know, first, I would say the first
three first three and a half years, everything was out
of my pocket. You know, I was moving. We were
not profitable yet, you know, we were like really like
(18:11):
right at the low end the negative, you know, like
we just were scratching bringing even. But I knew it
was worth it, you know. And then shout out the
Red Bull because Red Bull has been a supporter of
ABL since day one, so they kind of gave me
a little leverage to be able to start doing more
basketball that could create revenue for me. But I would
(18:31):
say that that major deal that like set it apart
was two thousand and fifteen, sixteen, we signed a five
year deal with Pepsi where Pepsi was pushing Mountain dude,
they had just signed the NBA deal, And that was
what like turned the knob where it was like, all right, okay,
we can make some money now, you know, we can't
(18:54):
get comfortable. But it set me up for the next
really the next three to five years to be able
to work with operate in budget and what about reinvesting
because again, a lot of people, man, people think that
you know, when they hear about companies making millions of
dollars that like all that money is just going into
the CEO and the owners pocket and they don't really
understand like they do. You might have a million top line, right,
you know, your expenses might be nine hundred and niney
(19:16):
nine thousand, right, So like from a reinvestment standpoint, what's
your perspective on that where you're saying, you know what,
we got this deal from PEPSI. Now we got these
partners coming in, Like I'm a I'm a hold off
on you know, paying myself fully what I'm worth. I'm
gonna make sure my team is taken care of or
did you just say, you know what, we gotta check
were gonna have a good time along with Noah till
this day. You know, I pay myself last, you know,
(19:36):
and sometimes I don't even pay myself if it's meaning
that my team got to get eat, you know, they
have to eat or we need to reinvest in the community.
That is very, very priority to everything that we do
at ABL. I think to date we've probably spent over
half a million dollars in community investment over the twelve years,
making sure that kids don't have to pay for basketball,
(19:58):
you know, going to camps, our kids to the Hawkes
games or Falcons games. Making sure that our volunteer coaches
and stuff have the resources that they need. So for us,
it's always reinvest into our brand so we can continue
to grow. Make sure that your team is taken care of.
And again, you're right, a lot of people look at
(20:18):
my personal social media and they're like, man, look at
his cars and he always traveling and he's doing this.
But but you don't realize is that I'm a serial entrepreneur.
So ABL actually isn't the breadwinner. ABL is just a
vehicle that I want to use for the community. As
a businessman, I'm doing tons of other things that allowed
me to use that lifestyle. And I had to really
(20:39):
start building my team in that way because they were
looking at it like, well, damn, you know you got
all this money, and I'm like, nah, I'm building to
the money and you guys are part of it. So
you know, as we've been going these last twelve years,
I would say like the last seven years to be exact,
is when we've really started like bringing on full time
and part times staff. You know, making sure that we
(21:01):
have a three sixty five approach where there's always a
working capital for whatever we want to do. Like if
we like Yo, B, we're gonna link up with butter
and we're gonna go feed the community. Notice I'm never
like we don't got no money. It's like, B, let's go,
let's go do it and then we'll figure out what
we need to do on the back end. So ABL
our businesses just as a whole, me as a businessman,
(21:23):
I'm taken that approach of you last right, if you
do it the way that you're supposed to do it,
you're gonna eat. You're gonna eat regardless, and you're gonna
be able to set yourself up for future success. So
you know, that's priority to us to make sure that
our staff, our community, and the people that are kind
of in the ABL community are supported. You know, that's
(21:44):
what our sponsorships and you know we don't people don't
know this a lot of times. That's why I think
they don't come to ABL all the time, is that
it's free to get in. Yeah, we don't charge, we
don't charge for parking, we don't charge for entry, So
sometimes that can be missed kind of like because you're
like it's free or I can go whenever, you know
what I mean. But if we can't because we are
(22:05):
NBA sanctioned league, and what that means is we're basically
just like NBA Summer League in Vegas. We're just based
in Atlanta and they allow us to have their shield
for NBA players NWNBA players now to come play at
the league. And then we're also NCAA sanction which allows
the college players to come and play, so we can't
(22:26):
charge entry or parking. What people also don't know about
ABL is that the reason why I created the whole
mantra of free and it for the community is because
when you're a kid growing up in the hood and
your mom and dad don't have it, you can't go
to us a hawked game to see your favorite NBA player,
(22:47):
You can't go to a concert to see the artists
that you love. So we bring those people to the
community for free, you know. And that's really like why
ABL is so special, man. It's you know, Keisha said it,
what she gave us our proclamation is that ABL has
become the fabric of the Atlanta community because we're the
centerfold that brings all of it together. You know. There's
(23:09):
not too many places that can do that. Yeah. Man.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
You know what's interesting too, is you talked about like
how you came down here from New York and you
kind of embraced Atlanta. I think a lot of people whatever,
they come from out of town and they look at
us like, oh man, these folks are slow.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
They don't get it.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I'm gonna come down here and show them how to
do it the right way. But you know, always say, like,
you know, Atlanta will support you if you embit yourself
from the community and if you build something in public
and you do it the right way.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
Is that kind of what your experience is. Yeah? Yeah,
I think when I came I definitely didn't come with
that mantra because I was already in the South. So
I finished school and finished college in South Carolina, which
is way slow it in yeah, Atlanta, you know. So
when I got here, what I saw was a lot
of successful black people that all come from different walks
(23:56):
of life, similar to myself growing up in New York.
I saw a lot of like support. It seemed like
everybody rock with each other. It was so like it
was unified. It was like no matter what events you
went to, it was like you And that's literally probably
how me and you met was like just seeing each
other at multiple events. So for me, it was like,
(24:16):
I'm very strategic in figuring out where I can approach
things that need to be done. So when I came,
it was like, all right, music is thing I love.
I always thought I was going to be in the
music industry as well. It was like either make it
to the NBA or be in the music industry. So
when I came and I started kind of networking in
the music space. I interned that grand hustle with Atlantic Records,
(24:40):
you know, I started my own management company where we
were supporting local artists and producers, helping them bridge out
of Atlanta. I saw the open it. I was like,
but you know, my real love and passion is basketball,
and I don't see community basketball in this city the
way that I would have seen it, you know, like
growing up in New So I think for me it
(25:02):
was more like, let me make something big for this
city using basketball. That was literally like I still got
my little marble notebook that I wrote it down. It
was like, make basketball better in Atlanta, cause I don't
like it. Like when I go to the gyms, it
don't it's no energy. They we did have Nike Pro
City League here while I was in college. I forget
what years stopped, but it was almost private, and I
(25:25):
mean iverson shack. Everybody was playing, but it was like,
whatn't nobody in the stands. I'm like, bro, this feels
like like a morning run than a league, you know
what I'm saying. So, and I mean they of course
they had their like height end weekends or whatever, but
I just knew that, like whatever I built, I wanted
it to be for Atlanta because this city helped me
(25:48):
get my dreams out. You know, I don't think people
say all the time, do you think you could have
did this in New York? Yeah, but it's fifteen million
basketball leagues in New York. Literally every neighborhood has their
own basketball leage. In Atlanta, we didn't have that. So
I think this city, even though we get kind of
tied up only to music, I think I saw the
bigger part of just being able to level and get
(26:11):
to where I wanted to be as a black man
and a business owner that this city provided so I've
always respected and you know, obviously I'm fighting for it
now too, you know. So, Nah, I definitely think this
city kind of helped me get to where I'm at
for sure.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
No, that's one of the beautiful things about Atlanta. Man,
in Atlanta, it's still possible, you know what I mean.
I think for a lot of places you travel, you
go around, whether you're trying to buy a house or
you know, start a family, it's hard in some of
these bigger cities. You know, it's hard to go buy
a house in New York and kind of you know,
lock in. It's tell it's hard to get an apartment
in the Years Act, you know what I'm saying. But again,
I think when you when you think about Atlanta, even
(26:46):
though we joke around and say we're full and all
this stuff, there's just still so much potential down here.
You just got to tap into it. Yeah, And like
I said before, if you do it the right way,
the city will support you. Like, things are much more
accessible down here than they are in other places. And
plus you got people you have again, people with jobs
down here with money that can come in and support
it and do stuff. But again, it's it's much more
(27:06):
possible down here than it is in a lot of
other places. Now, one of the things you were talking
about too, was, you know, putting your team together. And
that's something I've kind of heard from a lot of
(27:27):
people is that's been one of the hardest parts of
kind of building this business, like kind of putting that
core team together, people that you can support and trust.
How's that been. Where did you find those people at?
Have you had to kind of like go through different
iterations of it, or has there been something else that's
been a little bit more difficult than like building a
team to help get ABO to where it's at.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, I think it's a combination of it all. Man.
I think that the right team is key. You know,
I hear and and this is coming from like just
going through it and cause you're like, yo, I got people.
You know what I'm saying, like, yeah, I know this
is Mary right. Yeah, let me you know, I need
a full team. Yes, you can do it by yourself
(28:06):
up to a certain degree. I do believe in that,
and I do want to share that expression to other entrepreneurs,
is that it is being pushed right now that you
need a team. You gotta have a CPA. You got
to have a lawyer. You got to start first, start first,
and then figure out what you are good at and
then figure out what you're not good at to find
(28:27):
those people. And you got to have the right people,
and it has to be very aligned to Yes, everybody
want to be paid, everybody want to make money, but
it's like, ultimately, while we're making this money, you got
to have a passion for what we're building too, because
if you don't, it ain't gonna work. Not for me.
Now for other business structures it may. It may I
(28:47):
need employees to show up, be here physically, clock in,
clock out, and go on with yourself. For me, I
can't do that. You got to believe in it. You
got to understand where we're trying to go. And I
think the hardest part for me and I literally this
is almost like an epiphany right now that I'm talking
to you about this, because I said, as many people
that have come through the ABL brand, and I could
(29:10):
probably name twenty of them right off the top that
are now super successful and really doing good and what
they're doing. I say that like, if I knew what
I knew now, I could have walked away from this
business a long time ago and let them run it.
But we all were learning. We didn't know. We were
trying to figure things out. Like if I knew what
I knew now, I was like, yo, Jo, you don't
(29:32):
got to be there every day and do everything. Do
what you're good at, which is your partnerships, the business development,
you know, working behind the scenes and make sure the
relationships with the players are good and let these people
run it. You know, I'm not very tactical, and I
tell people that all the time. I'm more strategic, so
I think and I go right by the time you
(29:54):
see me do something, the strategy was created way before
you saw it. Whereas you got to have people that
can fold in between, like the passion. They want to
get paid and they see the big picture too. And
I think, unfortunately we're in the generation where everybody's like,
I want it now, I want to be the boss
right there. It's no more internship, it's no more development.
(30:16):
It's like I got an idea, I'm going you know,
and then those same people come back to you and
then they're like, I need an opportunity, and I'm like, well,
you got to start from scratch. Yeah, you might be
successful over here, but with us, you got to start
from scratch. And I think any of my staff will
tell you that that everybody at ABL that's getting paid
now started for free. It's just our way. It's because
(30:40):
I got to know that you believe in it the
way we believe in it. You might not have my
safe vision because I'm the brains, but you got to
believe in it in your way, like your thing, Like
my god, that's right there behind you with the camera
started for free, came and shot our games, edited, cut it.
I'd be like, yo, show up, I'm going to radio.
He coming. I'm going to do this with my son
at this football game. He come in. So now it's
(31:02):
like when I'm going to look for money and I'm
going to try to find ways to bring revenue in.
I'm thinking about those people, like how can I may
not be able to give you everything. And I think
that's the part that I also want to express it
that your value one place may not be the same
somewhere else. You got to go with the people who
(31:23):
value you. They may not have all the money. You
get what I'm saying, And I preach that a lot
because I deal with it. I'm sure you deal with
it where we know what I should be making a
million dollars every time I talk to you. You get
what I'm saying, But I know that may not be
your budget. I know you may not have that right now.
And to go back to your point about the relationships
with the sponsors, I've done things for one thousand dollars.
(31:46):
That's somebody that does not have had the experience that
I have or the knowledge or the relationships are charging
you twenty thousand dollars for so guess what you charge
a twenty just because you're like, I'm worth twenty thousand
dollars and they like, we don't got it, and you're
not willing to budge or be flexible. They told me
they had a thousand. I made it work. Guess what.
(32:10):
I made it work so good that they trust me
now that now they got a million dollars and they like,
give it to him. You see what I'm saying, because
he save my model. My model is a lot of
these corporate brands model, and I get it. We fight
against it all the time because we like, we know
y'all got money. You get what I'm saying, But sometimes
we're not the only person they're doing business with. So
(32:31):
I try to take that same approach that I take
on the marketing and the advertising side and really do
that with my team. Like, man, I ain't got ten
g's to give you right now, I ain't got but seven.
But if you believe in trusting what we're doing, I'm
gonna go get you ten more. You get what I'm saying.
You might not get it right then and there on
that project you're working on, but the next project, we
(32:53):
gonna double down and we're gonna get more money, and
I'm gonna look out for you. So I think now
businesses are so social media too, because everybody it's a
highlight reel. So everybody look like they're getting money, right,
So then when you go to hire somebody and they
go to your Instagram, they're like, oh, he got money.
But yeah, I got money, But my business is still
(33:14):
growing and developing and I'm still investing in it. But
it's a growth thing. And then you got to pay.
I tell my kids, the kids that are around me
who want to be entrepreneurs, you got to put your
skin in the game by helping somebody else. It's okay,
you're going to be a boss. Too help somebody else,
bill help them navigate to their dreams. Because guess what,
(33:35):
in some capacities you can get I don't know every capacity,
but some capacities you can get paid to learn on
the job, and or you're learning free gain that nobody
else can get and that will help you so you
don't got to pay for it later. And I think
that's where I really try to dive in and really
double down on. Like how I build my team, I
(33:59):
try to build with people who are very smart, you know,
a lot of time smarter than me in places, have
a passion in a drive and assertiveness to go out
and get it right, whatever that realm is. And then
also believe in the unified front of what we're trying
to accomplish, because you can accomplish anything with a dope team.
We did it, you know what I'm saying. We're all
(34:21):
successful in our own right and we came together and
now we're looking to even double our pockets, you know
what I'm saying. But while we're doing good and creating
more jobs so people, you know, some people will be like, nah,
that's not the right way, but everybody's approach is different.
My approach is to make sure that I'm also developing
the next entrepreneurs, the next leaders of our city, whether
(34:42):
they do basketball, music, marketing, whatever it may be. I
don't think there's and I'm a really humble brag on this.
I think that I've put more money in this city
in the last ten years than a lot of corporate
companies that are worth billions of dollars. Just because I share,
I don't I'm going to meet and be like, yeah,
(35:03):
hell yeah, caught Butter. That's my guy. You know what
I mean. I know he gonna do. Oh you want
to do this, you want to market, you want to
go to Butter. It ain't gonna cut my pocket. You
get what I'm saying. I'm calling and I've always done that,
and everybody in the city that is really the people
that we rock with, the leaders, will say your job
always look out. Now, I can't make brands do what
(35:24):
they don't want to do, but it don't matter. Be
you could come to me and say, Yo, bro, were
trying to do a Butter helicopter. I'm like, YO, to
give me a second. Let me let me see who
I can call that got a helicopter. It ain't gonna
hurt me, bro, And what it also I'm gonna do
is gonna build a lot of respect with you, and
it's gonna build respect with the people that we go
to because I'm like, damn, he did that easy, he
(35:45):
didn't like, yo, I need a commission off that. And
I just think, Man, for me, it's like I'm still
learning every day. Bro. I try to pay attention to
people who are doing unique things and that are successful
in their way and take bits and pieces of it.
And I think, ultimately, for me as I go into
this next phase of trying to go to the next level,
(36:05):
the key to it is having a great team, man.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
You know, yeah, I mean like I think hustle culture,
you know, I think hustle culture has like really kind
of done a lot of people in this service.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Because I agree with.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
You, man, Like I always tell people, I don't know
why everybody's so in a rush to be an entrepreneur.
First of all, this shit is hard, you know. Second
of all, I learned so much in corporate America while
getting paid, you know, to basically understand how to send
an email, to understand how to run a meeting, right, Like,
I can't imagine my career without having that experience. It's
(36:36):
like literally you getting paid to learn how to work.
And I think so many people kind of skip over
that part and all of a sudden you get them.
They don't know how to run a meeting, they can't
send an email, they don't know how to do followed,
they couldn't put a deck together because they literally got
no experience in But again why but they saw it online?
Speaker 1 (36:50):
They think issues we're supposed to do.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
And I think that's a big issue in Atlanta is
we got a lot of people that are just like
hustling trying to figure something out because they've discounted the
idea of like working or working for free or just learning.
But like, at the end of the day, there's a
lot of people out here that were probably really good.
You know, number two's number threes, Number four is in
a company, but they're so busy trying to be a
(37:11):
number one, and they don't know why they stressed out.
You stressed out because you should need to be in
that place in the first pot. You know, you stressed
out because you put yourself in a position to run
a business and to run I literally had somebody talk
to me the other week about how a company they
were working with, like the CEO basically disappeared because they
were running out of money and the CEO didn't even
know how to communicate to his team that we're dealing
(37:32):
with financial issues right now. And it really makes me wonder,
like that that person actually had that experience. Has he
been through that fire before or is he's figuring it
out now? He's taking it all personal, right, So, you know,
I tell people all the time because I get it
with Butter. All the time people come to me, oh, man,
I want to work with you. I want to help you.
It's like, all right, cool, And the first thing they
do is they have their hands out. Well, I got
to get paid though. Look I tell everybody the same thing.
(37:55):
You can't work for me until you work for me.
You know, I literally give so one of the things
I do is I give people little projects. I say,
you know what, I'll give you an option. You can
either be an intern or I'm gonna get this little
project and I'm gonna pay you one hundred bucks. I'm gonna
pay you for it. But I want to see what
your work product is like. I want to see if
you're gonna return these emails all. I do it all
the time. I give people a little project. I'll say,
(38:16):
you know, some light, I just want to see how
they come back to me. Is your stuff gonna be
organized or is it just gonna send me a bunch
of emails that don't make sense?
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Right?
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And it's again, you don't know how people work until
you actually see them work. And I think, especially as entrepreneurs,
that's a lot of risk on us because you know,
people don't understand that. When you hire somebody, that's one thing,
but losing a person can set you back because now
they done fucked up. Yeah, and they don't mess something up.
They didn't tell you it was broken and now you
got to fix it. So losing people can be even
(38:46):
more dangerous than hiring the right people. So you know,
that's a little trick that I try to do, is
you can't work for me until you work for me.
I'm gonna give you some kind of little project to
start off with. Yeah, I think that's fine.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
I think I'm incorporating that because see, I'll be and
you know, and you know, because you you operated multiple channels,
but it's so hard to find people, bro So so
it's like when you finally get a person You're like,
well that come on, just good. You know, you seem
to you checked off the boxes. But you're right, man,
Like I'm actually, man, I'm gonna steal that from you. Man.
(39:18):
So when you start hearing me talk about you, like, yeah,
I told them on the podcasts, But yeah, man, I
think I think you're You're right because I think when
you actually realize. And that's why I say about my
the first phase of ABL team was all these people
now are successful doing their own thing, and I've always
stressed to them like, hey, use this platform to go
(39:39):
do you, but while you're here, do us, like, do
what you got to do here. And I think if
I could take that and bottle that up in some
way and for my next five years, take a little
bit of what you just said, I think I can
build the next generation of executives in sports. You get
what I'm saying, because they learned so much on the fly.
(40:01):
But a lot of these kids they see you and
they like, I can do that too, But they think
they can do it now, not like hey in a
couple of years, Joe, how long did it take you
to be able to do this? They like, well, you
do it. I can do it, and I'm like, it
don't work like that. And then as soon as you
give them the real that's the other misfortunate about this generation.
(40:22):
When you give them that real conversation that we was
looking for from the ogs, like, yo, bro, tell me
I'm doing this wrong, so I can fix it, they disappear.
Yeah they can't. They don't. They can't. They can't. They
can't take it. They can't take the feedback yet, you know.
So that's that's been extremely hard, bro. But yeah, look man,
so again y'all.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
The hardest thing out here for a lot of these businesses,
like Josh said, is building a team.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
For getting the right team. I say this all the time.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
A A PLUS team with even a decent idea will
go way farther than a C team with an amazing idea.
Like you have to have the people around you, and
you can only do so much as an entrepreneur by yourself,
you know. Think like I've learned that lesson many times.
I've been burnt out, you know, because I'm trying to
do everything. I'm trying to run over here and support
everybody and get all this stuff. But again, when you
(41:07):
start finding those people that can really do it, you know,
hold on to them, take care of them, and they
will just help you get your stuff to the next level.
So with all the stuff you got going on, Y're like,
what's next with ABL, Like, what's kind of your global
vision for for all the stuff you want?
Speaker 1 (41:20):
Yeah? Man, So what's next for a b L is this,
and I have dropped it a little bit, is that
we we are working on creating like a G league
or minor league system for the w n b A.
I think that the women's game we've been in the
forefront of it. Obviously there's there's other people doing it
as well, but I don't think nobody doing it like
(41:41):
we do it out to.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Women too, because the NCAA even the gold medal game
for the Olympics.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, so you know, we're we're we're working on that. Actually,
wanted to put that into operations next going into next year,
probably right as March Madness is. It'll be something that
is kind of a subsidiary, but it will not be
the pro am. We'll still have our women's program, but
we'll have like a league that pays women. Hopefully, you know,
(42:11):
we'll get some investments and some people that believe in
where women's basketball is going, so we can pay these
women what they deserve. And then for US man, we're
already looking at a global opportunity to expand what our
footprints are. So we do the HBCU Elite one hundred,
which is a bridge to get high schools through the
(42:31):
athletes to HBCUs to play. We're talking with NBA Africa
about bringing that HBCU over to Africa to create a
program there. Obviously some other international countries have reached out
to us about it as well. So expanding beyond the
US is what's next for us. That's kind of in
(42:53):
my five year kind of global plan is to make
sure that we're touching multiple countries to bring is that
gap for basketball in the grassroots space. Obviously pro is
you know, they have pro leagues all over the world,
but they're missing that grassroot part. There's a lot of countries,
i e. Africa, the Virgin Islands that don't have those
(43:15):
you know, those resources, so we're going to try to
bring those to them. I'm super excited about our Career
Pathways program. It's a program where we take our college
high school students and we start developing them now so
they don't have to wait to do the internship after
school where they're learning media. They're learning marketing and game ops,
event management, pr all those type of things. So we've
(43:39):
had some huge success over the past two and a
half years. It will be going intop third year where
we place some people. A lot of my staff work
at Ote, Atlanta Hawks, Atlanta Dream, Nike, you name it.
You know, we got staff that has been with us
when they first started into their career journeys that are
in some really great positions. My form or executive assistant,
(44:01):
Jenessa is now the community direct at Nike, you know.
So I feel like we're doing a good job. Obviously,
I want to do a better job because I want
to be able to give more jobs out. But I'm
excited about that, man, and continuously just building a brand
to be looked at as a go to not just league,
but an organization in Atlanta in the country to serve
(44:22):
our community. Man. So that's really what's important to me. Obviously,
just continuing to build up these partnerships a lot of brands,
like you know, we have a big deal with Adidas
where we got our own shoe, you know. So it's
like continuing to make this a big brand where it's
respected and people like when you think of Atlanta Basketball,
you think of ABL. Yeah, that's that's really the vision. Man. No, man,
(44:45):
that's dope. Man.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Look before we get out of here, tell folks how
can they learn more about ABL the stuff you're working on.
How can they support how can they find y'all?
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Yeah, So we love everyone's support by following us at
ABL Hoops. Our website is ABL hoops dot com. We
are celebrating our championship weekend this weekend at KIP Atlanta
Collegiate on the West Side every summer, every Saturday and
Sunday for eight weeks. As I said, it's always free
for the community and for me, man, just you know,
(45:13):
be a resource network with me, talk to me, let
me know what you're doing. See how we can help
each other on my social pages job a CEO on Instagram,
and let's just keep empowering our people man in this city.
And I think as long as we keep doing that, man,
the support for us to keep, you know, keep coming.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
So yep, yo, shout out to John, Thanks for pulling
up man. This has been an amazing conversation and that's
the pod.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Appreciate you having me.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
You've been listening to butter Nomics and I'm your host,
Brandon Butler, comments feedback. Want to be a part of
the show, Send us an email today at Hello at
butterdomics dot com. Butter Nomics is produced in Atlanta, Georgia
at iHeartMedia by Ramsey, with marketing support from Queen and Nike.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Music provided by mister Hanky.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
If you haven't already, hit that subscribe button and never
missed an episode, and be sure to follow us on
all our social platforms at butter dot a t L.
Listen to button NoMix on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you get your podcasts.
Host
Brandon Butler
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