October 28, 2024 • 40 mins
Jess and Camilla finally break their silence about “Grey’s” writer Elisabeth R. Finch.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast. Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew,
(00:22):
and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Just a Capshaw well Luddington. Do you receive a phone
call out of nowhere, text out of nowhere saying can
I start to you for a second recently, just randomly?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And do they have something in common when you call
that person back, text that person back and they experience
what their question and query is? Yes, yes, and what
would that be? Let's see if it's the same as mine.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It was about a little no, We're not so little
documentary that came out.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was gonna say, a little documentary a very big liar.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, yes, And it got us on this in big,
huge conversation about people who appear to be one way
end up really and end up really being another way,
and how shocking that can be and how much it
can throw you like yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, well listen, I remember when I heard this documentary
was being made. But that actually came after finding out
that someone that was in my daily life at Grace
had completely lied about her entire identity, who she was.
Things that had happened to her, but like a whole
(01:41):
other person, whole nother, whole nother, And you know that
says something about me as shocked as I was for
some reason when people lie to great lengths, I'm not
as shocked as everyone else. What's that say? People have
lied to be in my life?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, so now I have a question for you. Have
you had experience before in your life where someone has
consistently lied or told such a whopper that you're like
kind of blown away.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Because maybe you've had.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Experience in some way with that or maybe not.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I've had people lie. I mean, like again early days.
We've touched on this about dating, right. It just you know,
because lying is you know, ends up being pretty cozy
and feels like a nice little roommate for cheating.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's such a funny way to put it. Yes, yes,
I do feel like unfortunately that is a somewhat common
way of line. Right, but have you ever had someone
where you're like, wow, they're not even like where they
went to school, where they like almost like a dateline episode, like.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
An identity Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, never that deep.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Well, it's interesting because the call It crew by the way,
seem to have had this experience, which we'll get into.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I cannot wait to get to these Well, let me
expose myself for a second. Maybe this might be why
lying is always sort of like hmm. When I was younger,
like a little younger, like I don't know from what
I can remember, so probably like five until probably nine
or ten, I'd think I had a very big imagination
(03:20):
and I would fly back and forth because my mother
lived in Los Angeles and my father lived in New York,
and I would have to go by myself, like and
I was called a company minor, and I would go
and so I would just like be sat next to
a stranger, and my imagination would get the best of me,
and I would tell them stories about who I was.
(03:41):
We're not real, I mean, lie li. I mean again,
I'm making it seem nice because I was a kid
and I was telling a story, but I was lying
as fact. One time I told my cozy little neighbor
who you know, they always are nice to the kid,
And you know, you can imagine me just sitting there
all by myself with my two little pig tails. I
told someone, which is so silly, because my mother is
(04:02):
an actress, was an actress. I told someone that I
was Meryl Streep's daughter and I was flying back to her.
I'd been on location and I don't know what I
was done. No, yeah, it's a full lie. Like again,
so when you say identity like I have lied, I
have memory of being a child who lied. Now this
story ends in wait.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Have you ever ran into Meryll and told her that
this is you were her long lost daughter?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Oh? You heard it here first. This is the first
time that I've admitted to this lie. If we're going
to be really, really clear, because guess what, no one
really cares. No one's really like put my feet to
the fire and said, did you ever say that you
were Meryl Streeps talker, to which I said, okay, fine,
I did. No, I did. I lied big. I lied
a lot, and I wasn't just on airplanes. My mom
(04:49):
always said that I had a lying face, like my
eyes kind of look like they're going to pop out
of my face and pop out of my head, and
like nothing moves on my face, like nothing, none of
my facial features move. And when she asks me, like,
you know, hey, Jay, like did you did you heard
some of the hawkinized chocolate ice cream last night, and
I'd be like, no, yes I did, for sure I did.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So you have your you give it all away in
your face.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So completely bad liar is what I am? Very bad liar.
I mean it would be nice to find that person
who sat next to me and see if they believed
I was MARYL. Streep's daughter. That's really funny. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
If you sat next to a little blonde check and
you're like you ever heard this story? Contact us? I
am also not a great liar either. I get very sweaty.
It makes me very uncomfortable that I'm very bad. I
just it makes me not feel good.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What's scary in this sparked conversation this week? It is
scary when someone can lie so easily, so confidently, Yeah,
that you really cannot tell. And there's a whole Macavelian element.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I was gonna say, yeah, because there's a harm element,
like an intention to do harm.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, that's and there is no part of them that
feels sorry right there.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes, they are completely unrepentant. Well what I was gonna
say that? Buttons up? What my big lying phase and
the reason why I don't anymore as of what ten
is that I remember, And it must have been traumatic
becase I don't remember what it was. But I got
caught in a lie and on the flight, No, not
on the fly, not on that king when I when
(06:28):
I got picked up, It wasn't maryl. Street. No, I
got caught in some lie when I was younger. That
felt so bad and created such deep shame inside of me,
like I was so ashamed to be who I was
and have said what I said and all the thing
that I truly were, like nine year old, ten year
old Jessica making a true promise to myself that I
(06:50):
would never lie again in my whole entire life, and
that like to to my own like detriment, I would
tell the truth. I don't know how long that lasted, right,
Like we all tell white lives right now, right, I mean, yeah,
and I think it's slightly calm white lives. I think
we tell. We we say things that might not be
complete truths, you know, to make massage certain situations or not,
(07:14):
you know, say things that would be unkind right, But yeah,
I just I thought it was interesting that I that
in my development I went so far one way and
I realized what the repercussions of lying were at such
an early age that I decided like that was not
for me and I was not going to feel that
kind of shame again. And I'm guessing that people who
(07:35):
lie about their identities and do these really horrible things,
like the woman that's starring in that documentary, I'm guessing
that they do not feel remorse or shame about lying.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
No, And that's where it gets very creepy if I'm
being honest.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And like moves into mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, I'm assuming. I mean, I don't you know, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Hard because you do.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You watch these documentaries, right like, you watch these documentaries
on Dateline, and you're and you're always I'm like this,
I'm like I would have known, right like I would
know that person's lying. And then you have an experience
where it basically feels like you're in a Dateline documentary
and you realize like, I did not know. I truly
(08:20):
did not know. And I think that that kind of
throws you for a loop because then you feel like
your own instinct on stuff is way off, and so
it makes you question your This is what I don't
like about it. It makes you start questioning yourself. Yeah,
like you're not just questioning that person now, it's like
why did I see that? How did I believe that?
(08:43):
And I don't like this self doubt. And then, by
the way, it can affect other areas of your life,
where now you're meeting somebody and they say something that
sounds maybe outlandish about themselves or even not.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So when you're like, is that true?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, No, I've experienced someone that has lied about the
most wild, crazy things.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah. I have to say with Finchy, who's the writer
who was in question in the documentary, it never it
never occurred to me to not believe her. I mean
there was never a moment where I was thinking, like,
the things that she lied about, you could never in
(09:23):
a million years imagine questioning, Yeah, this is somebody that
lied to us.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever
had this experience about many things, but about cancer, right,
So that's something that you don't ever imagine someone could
ever lie about.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And then offered up specific information about or experience with
it what it felt like.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But now I'm interested because you said that you were
not surprised, you were surprised of course, but it wasn't
like a gobsmack like I was like, you.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Know, yeah, it's so hard to explain. Of course, I
was surprised that someone that she of course I was
surprised that she wasn't who she really said she was,
and she was not reporting any experiences that were actually hers.
But I wasn't surprised that someone could do that, and
(10:19):
I sort of just felt like, oh, well, like she
was really good at that because I believed her. But again,
I was not sitting in the seat of the woman
who she married and represented a completely different life too.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That's a whole difference that feels like a movie. That
feels like a movie for sure. I will say this
because I have been asked to comment on this documentary.
Very strange experience seeing yourself in that kind of way,
and I don't personally don't want to talk about my
(10:56):
experience on set with this person. It's hard for me
to even, you know, with this person. But I will
say that what happened. I will say one little piece
of information that nobody knows, it's not in the documentary,
and I will share it here on the podcast. What
I really hate again about this is it makes you
go back and sort of question all the different things.
(11:18):
And this person. I remember going to Hawaii for the
first time, and.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was so excited that I.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Could afford going to Hawaii. I was never able to
afford something so tropical and glamorous. And I told everybody
that I was going to Kawaii and I was really excited.
And I was going with my boyfriend who's now my husband, obviously.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I think it was about three days into that trip
and FINCHI Finch was sat at the bar in the hotel.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
What, yes, not the airport bar, the the hotel where
you were a.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Hotel where I was in Kawai, sat in the bar
three days into my trip.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
What are you talking about? Yeah, she was with.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Somebody else, and I just remember thinking it was the
most random coincidence.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Had you told her what hotel you were going to?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I had probably told It's funny because then you start
to do this while you start to think back about
like who did I tell? You know, I had told
so many people where I was going. I'm sure I
would have told her. And is there a world in
which like she was just happened to be on vacation
at the same time as me at that hotel in Kawaii. Sure,
there's definitely a world where that happens. People run into
(12:43):
each other like it's crazy. I don't know, but I
don't like the now questioning of whether, like you know
that going back and sort of reevaluating all those things.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Did she check in as Joe Wilson. It's not even funny.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
God, I won't talk about set. I don't, it doesn't
make me feel comfortable, but I will share that that
story that happened in my personal life with her.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, well I saw her all the time on set,
but again I completely believed everything she said. There was
never a moment of suspicion. I never thought that's funny
that she said that like that, nothing nothing, nothing. And
when I left, I remember having a really she came
and found me and we ended up having a really
really long conversation outside my trailer because she was so
(13:35):
sad that I was leaving and wanted to talk about it.
And maybe she wasn't sad at all. Kamilla, Well, this is.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
What I'm saying that we do. I mean, this is
what I'm saying, like what is true and what's not true?
And I don't like I don't like having felt like
someone was like that was in our orbit no, and
not feeling like I sensed any of that the truth myself.
It just is uncomfortable, and you know, none of it
feels good.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I totally respect that you don't want to talk about
the bits on set. It's funny to me when people
behave like that, when people show themselves to be liars,
I have a funny little like normally, I think I
think we've seen on the podcast or heard on the
podcast that I kind of I like to find the
sunny side of the street. I like to get a
(14:24):
little optimistic. I like to find the joy. I'm a
little cutthroat when it comes to this shit. When you lie,
yeah about who you are, when you do things to
hurt people with your words, I'm a little like done
with you and listen. I do I believe in forgiveness.
(14:46):
That's a very personal thing and that's in you know,
relationships specific. But I mean, I do think when a
documentary like this comes out and obviously she's so exposed,
I'm a little like, would you I think that's gonna happen?
I don't. I do not like.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Us all getting caught up in it though.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
One else, but no one did anything wrong only no,
of course not.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I know, I just don't. It just it sucks to
be part of the story. It's uncomfortable to be part
of the story.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, anyway, let's get to the call It crew, because
we did you and I we made videos.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Let's leave that bad liar behind and let's get into something.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Let's move on to some others. I don't know how juice.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
They are just outright terrible.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I know, so Unfortunately this is sort of weirdly somewhat
common because we got so much feedback.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We did really quickly too.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, and I just want to before we get into it,
I do want to talk about some statistics around Lyne
which I found kind of interesting. So, uh, why do
people lie lies? This is from the University of Wisconsin.
They examined almost a little over six one hundred participants
over three months, and this is what they found. People
(16:04):
lie for a variety of reasons, and we can go
through this together. The first is twenty one percent lie
to avoid others.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Then twenty percent as a humor. I don't like that
kind of humor. By the way, I don't like that either.
I can that's not Nope, but I don't like jokes
and pranks. How about that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fourteen percent to protect oneself.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I get it. Thirteen percent to impress or appear more favorable,
I get it, but also never works.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
No, it doesn't work yet. Eleven percent to protect another
person okay.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
That yeah, nine percent for personal benefit or gain that
gives me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He Begbi's five percent for the benefit of another person okay.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Two percent to hurt another person just two percent. I mean,
I'm glad. It seems like a small number. But also
and then five percent friends specified reasons or explicitly for
no reason at all, which would maybe be the mental
health bucket, right, like when you're lying or you're me
not an adulta flight, Yeah, across the country, nine year
(17:10):
old me, just lying.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Okay, So let's get into some of the submissions that
we got. I'm going to read the first one ready.
So anonymous wrote us and they said, so, my dad
is a big liar. This may be a pretty common story,
but maybe not. When I was nineteen, we found out
that my dad had a whole secret life outside of
our family. To us, he was a quiet, shy, gentle soul,
(17:33):
raising us as reformed Christians married to my mom for
twenty plus years. Very upright guy, But in reality, he
had multiple girlfriends in other cities and even in other countries,
one of which he would fly in from Europe. He
was also a secret alcoholic and drug addict. We knew
nothing about it and thought he was working and we
(17:54):
were just really poor.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh that's the gut punch is a crazy crazy for
being like, okay, all right, I mean I've seen that
in like a TV show before, right, Like he's got
girlfriends everywhere blue bly flying in from Europe sounds pretty extravagant, right, all.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Awful, But like they that there was a financial cost
to their family.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That they did not have money because their father was
a liar and a cheat.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I mean, obviously this is disgusting. I hate that he
was with his mom. He was with their mom for
twenty plus years, and.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm sorry, as a reformed Christian, I don't like that either.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Because it feels like the mask, right, yeah, Like, not
only am I gonna lie, I'm going to create this
whole other persona to cover for the lie. This is
where it gets so creepy to me. Okay, God, are Selphie?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
This is terrible. Sophie wrote in and said, when I
was twelve, a friend that my best friend introduced our
group two told us she is cancer. I cried that
evening thinking about it as I had a granddad who
had had cancer and had seen what it had done
to him. I was really worried about all she had
said and done, and eventually told my mom, who decided
to pick up the phone and call the school asking
about all these stories that this new friend had been
telling us. It turns out she was lying about having
(19:07):
cancer the whole time. She also lied about her little
sister passing away, which to this day shocks me. I
can't believe someone could be like this at such a
young age.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Wow, this makes me nauseous. I don't know how. And
again we've had this experience, but I don't know how.
Somebody lies about someone else and it feels like the
early signs of a sociopath. I hate to say it,
I'm not diagnosing anybody, but like, it feels like that's
(19:38):
just dark.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well I think it's because it's the nature of her lie, right,
Because again, like you can lie, you can make up stories.
It's the nature of the lie. It's the nature of
the lie being I had cancer and now I get
all this attention and you feel terrible for me and
also my sister. My little sister died and you're gonna
(20:02):
give me all this attention, and that's so it's just really,
I mean, clearly this friend needs some help. I hope
they got it.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And again, I feel like when the lies are that dark, right,
it's it's if you don't have that sort of like
I don't even know how to describe it, that if
you are not this kind of person that could tell
these lies, it's so jarring. Yeah, and feel so sick.
(20:28):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how
else to describe it. Yeah, Okay, Rachel, I had a
best friend for three years when I was in my
(20:50):
last years of high school. When we first became friends,
he confided to me that he was gay, and we
would go everywhere together. I feel like, I know where
this is going. It's a movie, right, It's like this
is a but it could be a horror or movie slash.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
We'd go on trips together and share beds. I get
dressed in front of him because he was my gay bestie.
Except he wasn't gay.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Gay, He wasn't gay.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
He told me he was because he wanted to get
close to me as he was in love with me.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Gross, Okay, so that's not funny anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
He let this slip to a high school teacher who
took me aside to let me know as she was
concerned about the situation. All this time, I'd slept in
the same bed with him and got changed in front
of him, thinking he was gay.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Ah no, this is a horror movie. No, I know.
I feel terrible that I just went I went at
it with levity. I saw like a rom com, or
like the guy was actually sweet, nice and adam brody ish.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, because there has been some there's probably been some
rom coms back in the two thousands where it's like,
you know, nice Bogue Q and you're like, oh my god,
this is a door. But that's a movie, and this
is life and this is actually, I mean to be honest,
this is this is almost about consent a little bit,
because she's not. She's consenting to her gay best friend
(22:11):
being in bed with her, getting dressed in front of
undressed in front of him, and he's not. And not
only is he not gay. It's not that he's not gay.
He's not gay, and he's.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Also in love with her. So this is like but
by the way, bad approach, Like this is your way in.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Nobody is okay, talk about an AI wedding speech. You
need to AI this wedding speech because you cannot tell
the truth of how if these two ended up together.
I'd be like, this is under lock and key. Nobody
is gonna find this is funny at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But also, did he have no other friends like his?
Was his entire identity in high school as a young
gay man or was he like just holding on to
this identity when he.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Was with her. I do find it interesting that a
high school teacher is the one who took her aside
and revealed his sexual orientation to her. Yeah, that's really
interesting to me because I'm glad she did. It does
feel predatory that I just yeah, he asked, would have
told her? I mean, I'm assuming he's telling everybody. It's
(23:09):
not just her that he's telling is gay, that he's gay.
He's telling everybody. Oh, I don't like it. I'm sorry, Rachel,
I'm getting the hebgb's this whole podcast, Okay, Cecilia.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I got pregnant nineteen years old. Halfway through my pregnancy,
my mom called me and told me she needed me
to meet someone. My mom has always been a bit sketchy, shady.
I don't know a better way to explain it, but
she is my mom, so I always gave her a pass. Well.
I met up with her at a coffee shop, like requested,
and there was this random man sitting there with her.
I sit down and she goes, what I cheated on
(23:41):
your dad nineteen years ago. The dad who raised you
is not your dad. This man is. He has cancer
and has less than a year to live, so I
wanted to give you the opportunity to meet him. So
she lied to me in my entire life. Also cheated
and let my dad, who wasn't really my dad, think
I was his kid the entire time, and also lied
to this man about having his kid. She was so
(24:03):
nonchalant about it too. Never apologize what never apologized either.
I'm now fifty four years old and I often think
how different my life would have been. How a sociopath
not raised me.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
This is horrendous. I'm speechless at this one. This is
this is insane, this is its own documentary.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On a scale of one to ten,
this is this is a tenor.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And also, how do you even if the lie is
that big? How do you know that this is now
the truth? That's what's so scary about these people, right,
what's so scary is it's like, even if they apologize
and said all the right things, if you let them
back into your life ever in any form, is this
now the truth? Or are they I just want to know, like,
(24:53):
do these people live forever? Is their recovery in this
situation like this? I don't know. We need a mental
health professional on here to tell us because I would
cut I wouldn't be able to talk to this mom ever. Again,
what's true? What's not? If you can lie that big
and you're casual about it?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, I think it's But I think it's also it's
got to be somewhere in your mind you it's the
no remorse, It's the no it's the no empathy. It's
it's not having the feelings receptors that let you know
that this is so hurtful, that this would hurt your child,
that she didn't know who her dad was, and that
she does a dad it's not really her dad, and
(25:35):
now you're just casually bringing this guy to a diner
when you're half pregnant, and it's just all bad.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I can't imagine. I find it hard to even like,
I mean, I don't really small lie about anything to
my kids, but I find it. I mean sometimes I do,
Like I have one word for you, what Santa? Okay,
if Santa was not real, which he is everybody he
definitely is, I would even dread the day that I
(26:06):
had to reveal that he wasn't real, which he is.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, So for someone to do this, it's it's just
so I can't It's again, these are things that you
can't comprehend. They don't make sense, they don't compute like
you can't.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, the tooth fairy. Yeahby well, can you stop? Should think?
Because I was thinking about whether or not I lie
to my kids, and I was thinking, hey, I think
that sometimes. I mean, you never said something was closed
when it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know if I feel real
guilty about buyout, no honey, no sclowse Ron, I just
go on my merry way.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I'm definitely there's a lot of things that are close
truth about some things. Actually I can't.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
No, you're bringing up no, I like two with my
kids for sure, No, for sure, for sure, there is
they've run out of Rocky Road.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, completely out of that definitely, definitely, yeah, oh for sure.
And once they start getting a little bit older, I
a real sticky one I have found because I consider
myself someone who has, you know, real conversations with my kids.
And they're going to start asking you about things like
(27:30):
when did you first have sex?
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And when did you have did you ever do drinks?
And when did you have your first drink? And you're
forty five? Yeah, twenty five was the answer to all those.
And I've never touched weed.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's what you're gonna say.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It's really I gotta tell you it's no, that's that's
not fun. That's not fun. You know what's really funny.
I mean, this is like comp kind of off topic.
But when I was little, this is a white lie.
My mom told me I always wanted and we just
couldn't afford them, the power wheels cars. And my mom
(28:14):
told me that, and I wanted that. I was like,
we can't afford it, but Santa can make anything. And
she would always tell me, Kamla, it's going to take
up a lot of room on the sleigh. Yeah, he
was some kids losing out on their toys to make
way for your Barbie power wheels. Go ahead and write it,
And of course I was like, oh my god, no,
(28:35):
I can't do that, and so.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Little the lot. Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that
we lie to our kids more than we think we do.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, I said, I did say on here just
now that I don't tellw many little lies, and I
realized i'd tell many of them.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, any big ones, Okay, I'm sorry. My last thing
about the kids, No, I have noticed, since they spanned
from eight to seventeen, I have noticed that there's I
have to like when they ask me a question that
I am not going to give them the honest answer to.
I have to quickly calibrate how old they are and
(29:10):
if they will be able to fact check. That is important. Yeah,
because I'm not going to get caught.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
No, but do your kids know your caught face? Because
your mom knows it?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well maybe since maybe from all these years of acting,
I've gotten it better.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I'm a badler. I am, actually I.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Think I know I think I am too. Okay, Gabby
is really excited for this topic. She wrote, I hope
(29:49):
everyone as well, and I'm so excited for this topic.
I have this friend who lies about everything for attention.
Some examples are that she lies about getting injured and
it doesn't correlate with a timeline. She gives, lies about
sleeping with people, lies about moving, just stuff like that.
(30:10):
One time she lied saying that her car got flipped
and rolled three times.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Like what the hell?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Why in the world would you want to lie about
something so intense like that. She also said this after
someone we knew had just rolled their car. I'd understand
her and her logic, and I'm currently ghosting her because
I just can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That sucks. I think I had a friend in sixth
grade who lied a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well, this is someone older, this is someone who can drive.
I get like, there's gonna be kids say yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, I went to grade school story.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I mean, I you know, we all, yes, we all
had the you know the I mean the stupidest lies
that I got told when I was little by other friends.
So I still think of one of them. Gladiators in
the UK was like such a huge show, and she
told me that the Pink Gladiator, who is my favorite
jet Inland, lived with her grandma and let her try
on her uniform. And I was like, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
We were like, Saven see this one I'm talking about.
I think there's a there's a there's a window of
lying that actually is just part of your development. I
think that you're I think that those lies.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I think we're.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Probably I mean, I'm maybe I'm just convincing myself that
I don't have issues. But yeah, I think that that's normal,
like having those lies. But it's when you're in a
grown up that's different. Okay, isy gosh, another just I mean,
what is wrong with people? I hate to say it,
but my father turned out to be a massive liar.
My dad is a firefighter and for five months he
was carrying out a whole other life with a female
(31:36):
cop who happened to work in the same city as him,
for five whole months. During these five months, my dad, mom,
my brother, and I went on a family vacation, and
this whole family vacation, he and the woman were in
contact with each other. When my dad came out and
told us about the affair. He said he would discontinue
any contact with the woman. A few days later, my
mom went to go talk with my dad at our
yacht club because he was staying on the boat. Lo
(31:57):
and behold the woman was with him when my mom
show up. Ah, wrong with people?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What the heck? The dads aren't looking so good today?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I mean, neither was a bad mother, was a bad
mom mom too bad liar, lying liar. How do you
deal with a liar? Good question?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How do you deal with a liar? I mean, when
the liars are this big, I do think for the
sake of your sanity, you can't have that person in
your life.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah. I was gonna say total abandoned jump ship, but.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
This is really hard. So I mean, some of these
people are related if you're married to them, I mean yeah,
married related. They're your mom, that your dad.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, and by the way, the extent that they go
through to do. I have another bad story, a bad
dad story. I just heard this from a friend of
mind that there was a dad who was like again,
picture perfect, like squeaky, cleaning, always game like, always taking
the kids everywhere, and he was with the daughter I
don't even know how she was and she had his phone,
(33:03):
and he kept getting hit up by this. But it
was a contact that was like in there is like
not the right name. Yeah, And she looked at it
and it was sexy talk. And then because these things
happen when you find them, you for some reason cannot
look away. You have to keep looking. Yeah, you got
(33:24):
to start scrolling. The finger comes out, you're swiping, you're strolling,
you're scrolling, you're scrolling an swiping, You're doing all the things.
And she got into some seriously Shenanigany territory. There was sex,
there were boobs, there was all of it. All it
one person. Yes, but I'd been going on for a
(33:46):
very long time. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot the punchline.
It was her friend's mom.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
No, yes, no, yeah, yeah again.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I for some reason, these crazy stories come out. I'm like, oh, I.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Get So the friend is now involved. That's what sucks too.
Now the friend is involved, And how does she feel
about the mom, And.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
How does she tell them? How does she Yeah, he
should tell them, but then she no, And then that's
a heat. The message killed the messenger. The whole thing
is just awful, terrible, terrible, And that's the thing I
think that I really don't like about liars. They really
take people down, you know, they change your life with lies.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, well your trust well, I mean there's so many
things that are affected, but your foundation for trust feels
really shaken. Mm hmm, especially when they especially when it's
just so wild where you're listening to it and it's
still like the person that we're talking about. For us personally,
(34:45):
I still can't compute. It still doesn't like compute for me.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Why I accept it? So I'm like, oh, yeah, because
it doesn't because I'm like.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It doesn't feel real almost.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
No, No, it does not feel real.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
No, And for these people, I imagine it takes a
very long time or maybe it never feels I mean,
to be honest, the one with the mom who said
that you know this is your dad, I would need
the DNA test. I wouldn't even want to take her
word on it. Yeah, Like what makes me believe this
new lie?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
What's slightly terrifying is we made these videos, I mean
put them out on Instagram, and we just got so
many submissions and they weren't small stories. I mean, we
can dig into this morning another episode. Obviously, this is
a huge subject affecting so many people. They were huge,
huge monumental betrayals. Yeah, because that's what the line ends
(35:40):
up being, ends up being a betrayal of your trust,
of your friendship.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
They literally had well we had hundreds of submissions. Yeah,
hundreds in like twenty four hours. Yeah, fightening.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
It's frightening because you feel like you imagine that there
aren't that many people walking around the world who can
lie like this, and when you see from our crew
the response, You're like.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Wait, this is so creepy. Yeah. You know what I
think it makes uh for some some good therapy after
you've been lied to, is talking about it, like I mean,
like calling a friend and like just getting it all out,
like because I feel like that's what's happened with this
documentary is people just want to talk about it because
(36:22):
they can't wrap their heads around it. They can't think
of how, you know, someone could ever lie like that.
But I do have to say, and again I'm a
I'm not I'm was just a person that worked there
as well, right, Like, I'm not a huge part of
the story, but I can tell you that the very
many people who have reached out to me, I wanted
to talk about it. I think that they feel like
some uh and they're not even personally involved, but I
(36:44):
think they feel better when they've just like heard a
little bit more talked it out. I think that it's
so just like you said, it's so unsettling to think
that there are people out there who can, who can,
who can behave that way.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, that's why it's interesting, And I think great when
our crew write in and they just they give us
their stories, because I think sharing them, there's somebody else
listening to this, thinking my experience with this person was
so wild it can't possibly it must be so rare.
And then you're hearing other people and you're like, wow,
that's that's even worse or that's the same, or that's the.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And there's other people dealing with this and yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Exactly, which is why we wanted to do this episode,
because it does feel kind of isolating when you've been
in a situation that feels insane.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I always find that when I'm dealing with people who
I can't who I feel like I feel an instinct
about that I can't trust, or if I have been
in relationships with people where it's such an overused term
these days, I think, but I actually mean it in
the truest sense of its meeting, which is gaslighting where
someone's you know, you're saying, hey, but I didn't love
when this happened, and they're like, what are you talking about?
That didn't happen? Yeah? Really? Yeah, are you sure? Because
(37:57):
I and it's wild because of course it usual really
only happens when it's you and that person in conversation, right,
like when there's witnesses, there's no it's a little bit harder.
But yeah, I've had a couple people in my life
where I'm like, can I just like put a GoPro
on my head? Like, do you mind if I just
videotape all of our interactions because this feels unsafe, Like
you feel like being with you and being in relationship
(38:19):
with you makes me feel like I'm living in the
upside down. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I don't know if I could have very close relations
with people that know.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
But sometimes you're forced into it. I mean, sometimes you
just have people in your life where you know, either
by circumstance or yeah, of course all the different things
there they are. But I do think, yeah, that's that's
I think that's my last thought on it is that
I do think that there are big fat liars out there,
and I can only imagine that we all experience them,
(38:49):
and that the only uh, the only way out is
the rough that lie and to talk about it with
other people and figure out how to get right with
it and understand that you didn't contribute to it and
exactly send them on their way. And by the way,
I feel like when people have, you know, lied a lot. Again,
I'm a big fan of when people have lied a lot.
(39:11):
I'm a big fan of getting your way to forgiveness.
But I don't think you need to forget it. I
think that was actually information that's necessary in going forward
in a relationship with that person. Yeah, I agree that
bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
All right, I think we need to We keep saying
this that it's only because the crew is just so
incredible that I'm like, we need enough. We gotta do more.
We got to get through more of your submissions and stories.
But for now, we're gonna call it just the end
of the lying episode.
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast. Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello Call It crew,
(00:22):
and welcome to another episode of Call It What It Is?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Just a Capshaw well Luddington. Do you receive a phone
call out of nowhere, text out of nowhere saying can
I start to you for a second recently, just randomly?
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:36):
And do they have something in common when you call
that person back, text that person back and they experience
what their question and query is? Yes, yes, and what
would that be? Let's see if it's the same as mine.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It was about a little no, We're not so little
documentary that came out.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
I was gonna say, a little documentary a very big liar.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Yes, yes, And it got us on this in big,
huge conversation about people who appear to be one way
end up really and end up really being another way,
and how shocking that can be and how much it
can throw you like yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah, well listen, I remember when I heard this documentary
was being made. But that actually came after finding out
that someone that was in my daily life at Grace
had completely lied about her entire identity, who she was.
Things that had happened to her, but like a whole
(01:41):
other person, whole nother, whole nother, And you know that
says something about me as shocked as I was for
some reason when people lie to great lengths, I'm not
as shocked as everyone else. What's that say? People have
lied to be in my life?
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Okay, so now I have a question for you. Have
you had experience before in your life where someone has
consistently lied or told such a whopper that you're like
kind of blown away.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Because maybe you've had.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Experience in some way with that or maybe not.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Yeah, I've had people lie. I mean, like again early days.
We've touched on this about dating, right. It just you know,
because lying is you know, ends up being pretty cozy
and feels like a nice little roommate for cheating.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's such a funny way to put it. Yes, yes,
I do feel like unfortunately that is a somewhat common
way of line. Right, but have you ever had someone
where you're like, wow, they're not even like where they
went to school, where they like almost like a dateline episode, like.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
An identity Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, never that deep.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Well, it's interesting because the call It crew by the way,
seem to have had this experience, which we'll get into.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I cannot wait to get to these Well, let me
expose myself for a second. Maybe this might be why
lying is always sort of like hmm. When I was younger,
like a little younger, like I don't know from what
I can remember, so probably like five until probably nine
or ten, I'd think I had a very big imagination
(03:20):
and I would fly back and forth because my mother
lived in Los Angeles and my father lived in New York,
and I would have to go by myself, like and
I was called a company minor, and I would go
and so I would just like be sat next to
a stranger, and my imagination would get the best of me,
and I would tell them stories about who I was.
(03:41):
We're not real, I mean, lie li. I mean again,
I'm making it seem nice because I was a kid
and I was telling a story, but I was lying
as fact. One time I told my cozy little neighbor
who you know, they always are nice to the kid,
And you know, you can imagine me just sitting there
all by myself with my two little pig tails. I
told someone, which is so silly, because my mother is
(04:02):
an actress, was an actress. I told someone that I
was Meryl Streep's daughter and I was flying back to her.
I'd been on location and I don't know what I
was done. No, yeah, it's a full lie. Like again,
so when you say identity like I have lied, I
have memory of being a child who lied. Now this
story ends in wait.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Have you ever ran into Meryll and told her that
this is you were her long lost daughter?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Oh? You heard it here first. This is the first
time that I've admitted to this lie. If we're going
to be really, really clear, because guess what, no one
really cares. No one's really like put my feet to
the fire and said, did you ever say that you
were Meryl Streeps talker, to which I said, okay, fine,
I did. No, I did. I lied big. I lied
a lot, and I wasn't just on airplanes. My mom
(04:49):
always said that I had a lying face, like my
eyes kind of look like they're going to pop out
of my face and pop out of my head, and
like nothing moves on my face, like nothing, none of
my facial features move. And when she asks me, like,
you know, hey, Jay, like did you did you heard
some of the hawkinized chocolate ice cream last night, and
I'd be like, no, yes I did, for sure I did.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
So you have your you give it all away in
your face.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
So completely bad liar is what I am? Very bad liar.
I mean it would be nice to find that person
who sat next to me and see if they believed
I was MARYL. Streep's daughter. That's really funny. Yeah, I mean,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (05:21):
If you sat next to a little blonde check and
you're like you ever heard this story? Contact us? I
am also not a great liar either. I get very sweaty.
It makes me very uncomfortable that I'm very bad. I
just it makes me not feel good.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
I think.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
What's scary in this sparked conversation this week? It is
scary when someone can lie so easily, so confidently, Yeah,
that you really cannot tell. And there's a whole Macavelian element.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I was gonna say, yeah, because there's a harm element,
like an intention to do harm.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, that's and there is no part of them that
feels sorry right there.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yes, they are completely unrepentant. Well what I was gonna
say that? Buttons up? What my big lying phase and
the reason why I don't anymore as of what ten
is that I remember, And it must have been traumatic
becase I don't remember what it was. But I got
caught in a lie and on the flight, No, not
on the fly, not on that king when I when
(06:28):
I got picked up, It wasn't maryl. Street. No, I
got caught in some lie when I was younger. That
felt so bad and created such deep shame inside of me,
like I was so ashamed to be who I was
and have said what I said and all the thing
that I truly were, like nine year old, ten year
old Jessica making a true promise to myself that I
(06:50):
would never lie again in my whole entire life, and
that like to to my own like detriment, I would
tell the truth. I don't know how long that lasted, right,
Like we all tell white lives right now, right, I mean, yeah,
and I think it's slightly calm white lives. I think
we tell. We we say things that might not be
complete truths, you know, to make massage certain situations or not,
(07:14):
you know, say things that would be unkind right, But yeah,
I just I thought it was interesting that I that
in my development I went so far one way and
I realized what the repercussions of lying were at such
an early age that I decided like that was not
for me and I was not going to feel that
kind of shame again. And I'm guessing that people who
(07:35):
lie about their identities and do these really horrible things,
like the woman that's starring in that documentary, I'm guessing
that they do not feel remorse or shame about lying.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
No, And that's where it gets very creepy if I'm
being honest.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And like moves into mental health issues.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, I'm assuming. I mean, I don't you know, Like it's.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Hard because you do.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
You watch these documentaries, right like, you watch these documentaries
on Dateline, and you're and you're always I'm like this,
I'm like I would have known, right like I would
know that person's lying. And then you have an experience
where it basically feels like you're in a Dateline documentary
and you realize like, I did not know. I truly
(08:20):
did not know. And I think that that kind of
throws you for a loop because then you feel like
your own instinct on stuff is way off, and so
it makes you question your This is what I don't
like about it. It makes you start questioning yourself. Yeah,
like you're not just questioning that person now, it's like
why did I see that? How did I believe that?
(08:43):
And I don't like this self doubt. And then, by
the way, it can affect other areas of your life,
where now you're meeting somebody and they say something that
sounds maybe outlandish about themselves or even not.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
So when you're like, is that true?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, No, I've experienced someone that has lied about the
most wild, crazy things.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
Yeah. I have to say with Finchy, who's the writer
who was in question in the documentary, it never it
never occurred to me to not believe her. I mean
there was never a moment where I was thinking, like,
the things that she lied about, you could never in
(09:23):
a million years imagine questioning, Yeah, this is somebody that
lied to us.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I mean, I don't know if you guys have ever
had this experience about many things, but about cancer, right,
So that's something that you don't ever imagine someone could
ever lie about.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
And then offered up specific information about or experience with
it what it felt like.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
But now I'm interested because you said that you were
not surprised, you were surprised of course, but it wasn't
like a gobsmack like I was like, you.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
Know, yeah, it's so hard to explain. Of course, I
was surprised that someone that she of course I was
surprised that she wasn't who she really said she was,
and she was not reporting any experiences that were actually hers.
But I wasn't surprised that someone could do that, and
(10:19):
I sort of just felt like, oh, well, like she
was really good at that because I believed her. But again,
I was not sitting in the seat of the woman
who she married and represented a completely different life too.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
That's a whole difference that feels like a movie. That
feels like a movie for sure. I will say this
because I have been asked to comment on this documentary.
Very strange experience seeing yourself in that kind of way,
and I don't personally don't want to talk about my
(10:56):
experience on set with this person. It's hard for me
to even, you know, with this person. But I will
say that what happened. I will say one little piece
of information that nobody knows, it's not in the documentary,
and I will share it here on the podcast. What
I really hate again about this is it makes you
go back and sort of question all the different things.
(11:18):
And this person. I remember going to Hawaii for the
first time, and.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
I was so excited that I.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Could afford going to Hawaii. I was never able to
afford something so tropical and glamorous. And I told everybody
that I was going to Kawaii and I was really excited.
And I was going with my boyfriend who's now my husband, obviously.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
And.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
I think it was about three days into that trip
and FINCHI Finch was sat at the bar in the hotel.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
What, yes, not the airport bar, the the hotel where
you were a.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
Hotel where I was in Kawai, sat in the bar
three days into my trip.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
What are you talking about? Yeah, she was with.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Somebody else, and I just remember thinking it was the
most random coincidence.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Had you told her what hotel you were going to?
Speaker 1 (12:22):
I had probably told It's funny because then you start
to do this while you start to think back about
like who did I tell? You know, I had told
so many people where I was going. I'm sure I
would have told her. And is there a world in
which like she was just happened to be on vacation
at the same time as me at that hotel in Kawaii. Sure,
there's definitely a world where that happens. People run into
(12:43):
each other like it's crazy. I don't know, but I
don't like the now questioning of whether, like you know
that going back and sort of reevaluating all those things.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Did she check in as Joe Wilson. It's not even funny.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
God, I won't talk about set. I don't, it doesn't
make me feel comfortable, but I will share that that
story that happened in my personal life with her.
Speaker 2 (13:13):
Yeah, well I saw her all the time on set,
but again I completely believed everything she said. There was
never a moment of suspicion. I never thought that's funny
that she said that like that, nothing nothing, nothing. And
when I left, I remember having a really she came
and found me and we ended up having a really
really long conversation outside my trailer because she was so
(13:35):
sad that I was leaving and wanted to talk about it.
And maybe she wasn't sad at all. Kamilla, Well, this is.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
What I'm saying that we do. I mean, this is
what I'm saying, like what is true and what's not true?
And I don't like I don't like having felt like
someone was like that was in our orbit no, and
not feeling like I sensed any of that the truth myself.
It just is uncomfortable, and you know, none of it
feels good.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
I totally respect that you don't want to talk about
the bits on set. It's funny to me when people
behave like that, when people show themselves to be liars,
I have a funny little like normally, I think I
think we've seen on the podcast or heard on the
podcast that I kind of I like to find the
sunny side of the street. I like to get a
(14:24):
little optimistic. I like to find the joy. I'm a
little cutthroat when it comes to this shit. When you lie,
yeah about who you are, when you do things to
hurt people with your words, I'm a little like done
with you and listen. I do I believe in forgiveness.
(14:46):
That's a very personal thing and that's in you know,
relationships specific. But I mean, I do think when a
documentary like this comes out and obviously she's so exposed,
I'm a little like, would you I think that's gonna happen?
I don't. I do not like.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Us all getting caught up in it though.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
One else, but no one did anything wrong only no,
of course not.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
I know, I just don't. It just it sucks to
be part of the story. It's uncomfortable to be part
of the story.
Speaker 3 (15:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Well, anyway, let's get to the call It crew, because
we did you and I we made videos.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
Let's leave that bad liar behind and let's get into something.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Let's move on to some others. I don't know how juice.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
They are just outright terrible.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
I know, so Unfortunately this is sort of weirdly somewhat
common because we got so much feedback.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
We did really quickly too.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
Yeah, and I just want to before we get into it,
I do want to talk about some statistics around Lyne
which I found kind of interesting. So, uh, why do
people lie lies? This is from the University of Wisconsin.
They examined almost a little over six one hundred participants
over three months, and this is what they found. People
(16:04):
lie for a variety of reasons, and we can go
through this together. The first is twenty one percent lie
to avoid others.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Then twenty percent as a humor. I don't like that
kind of humor. By the way, I don't like that either.
I can that's not Nope, but I don't like jokes
and pranks. How about that.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Fourteen percent to protect oneself.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
I get it. Thirteen percent to impress or appear more favorable,
I get it, but also never works.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
No, it doesn't work yet. Eleven percent to protect another
person okay.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
That yeah, nine percent for personal benefit or gain that
gives me.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
He Begbi's five percent for the benefit of another person okay.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Two percent to hurt another person just two percent. I mean,
I'm glad. It seems like a small number. But also
and then five percent friends specified reasons or explicitly for
no reason at all, which would maybe be the mental
health bucket, right, like when you're lying or you're me
not an adulta flight, Yeah, across the country, nine year
(17:10):
old me, just lying.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Okay, So let's get into some of the submissions that
we got. I'm going to read the first one ready.
So anonymous wrote us and they said, so, my dad
is a big liar. This may be a pretty common story,
but maybe not. When I was nineteen, we found out
that my dad had a whole secret life outside of
our family. To us, he was a quiet, shy, gentle soul,
(17:33):
raising us as reformed Christians married to my mom for
twenty plus years. Very upright guy, But in reality, he
had multiple girlfriends in other cities and even in other countries,
one of which he would fly in from Europe. He
was also a secret alcoholic and drug addict. We knew
nothing about it and thought he was working and we
(17:54):
were just really poor.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Oh that's the gut punch is a crazy crazy for
being like, okay, all right, I mean I've seen that
in like a TV show before, right, Like he's got
girlfriends everywhere blue bly flying in from Europe sounds pretty extravagant, right, all.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Awful, But like they that there was a financial cost
to their family.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
That they did not have money because their father was
a liar and a cheat.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
I mean, obviously this is disgusting. I hate that he
was with his mom. He was with their mom for
twenty plus years, and.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
I'm sorry, as a reformed Christian, I don't like that either.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Because it feels like the mask, right, yeah, Like, not
only am I gonna lie, I'm going to create this
whole other persona to cover for the lie. This is
where it gets so creepy to me. Okay, God, are Selphie?
Speaker 2 (18:45):
This is terrible. Sophie wrote in and said, when I
was twelve, a friend that my best friend introduced our
group two told us she is cancer. I cried that
evening thinking about it as I had a granddad who
had had cancer and had seen what it had done
to him. I was really worried about all she had
said and done, and eventually told my mom, who decided
to pick up the phone and call the school asking
about all these stories that this new friend had been
telling us. It turns out she was lying about having
(19:07):
cancer the whole time. She also lied about her little
sister passing away, which to this day shocks me. I
can't believe someone could be like this at such a
young age.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Wow, this makes me nauseous. I don't know how. And
again we've had this experience, but I don't know how.
Somebody lies about someone else and it feels like the
early signs of a sociopath. I hate to say it,
I'm not diagnosing anybody, but like, it feels like that's
(19:38):
just dark.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Well I think it's because it's the nature of her lie, right,
Because again, like you can lie, you can make up stories.
It's the nature of the lie. It's the nature of
the lie being I had cancer and now I get
all this attention and you feel terrible for me and
also my sister. My little sister died and you're gonna
(20:02):
give me all this attention, and that's so it's just really,
I mean, clearly this friend needs some help. I hope
they got it.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
And again, I feel like when the lies are that dark, right,
it's it's if you don't have that sort of like
I don't even know how to describe it, that if
you are not this kind of person that could tell
these lies, it's so jarring. Yeah, and feel so sick.
(20:28):
I don't know, I don't know, I don't know how
else to describe it. Yeah, Okay, Rachel, I had a
best friend for three years when I was in my
(20:50):
last years of high school. When we first became friends,
he confided to me that he was gay, and we
would go everywhere together. I feel like, I know where
this is going. It's a movie, right, It's like this
is a but it could be a horror or movie slash.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
We'd go on trips together and share beds. I get
dressed in front of him because he was my gay bestie.
Except he wasn't gay.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
Gay, He wasn't gay.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
He told me he was because he wanted to get
close to me as he was in love with me.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
No.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Gross, Okay, so that's not funny anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
He let this slip to a high school teacher who
took me aside to let me know as she was
concerned about the situation. All this time, I'd slept in
the same bed with him and got changed in front
of him, thinking he was gay.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Ah no, this is a horror movie. No, I know.
I feel terrible that I just went I went at
it with levity. I saw like a rom com, or
like the guy was actually sweet, nice and adam brody ish.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yes, because there has been some there's probably been some
rom coms back in the two thousands where it's like,
you know, nice Bogue Q and you're like, oh my god,
this is a door. But that's a movie, and this
is life and this is actually, I mean to be honest,
this is this is almost about consent a little bit,
because she's not. She's consenting to her gay best friend
(22:11):
being in bed with her, getting dressed in front of
undressed in front of him, and he's not. And not
only is he not gay. It's not that he's not gay.
He's not gay, and he's.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Also in love with her. So this is like but
by the way, bad approach, Like this is your way in.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Nobody is okay, talk about an AI wedding speech. You
need to AI this wedding speech because you cannot tell
the truth of how if these two ended up together.
I'd be like, this is under lock and key. Nobody
is gonna find this is funny at the wedding.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
But also, did he have no other friends like his?
Was his entire identity in high school as a young
gay man or was he like just holding on to
this identity when he.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Was with her. I do find it interesting that a
high school teacher is the one who took her aside
and revealed his sexual orientation to her. Yeah, that's really
interesting to me because I'm glad she did. It does
feel predatory that I just yeah, he asked, would have
told her? I mean, I'm assuming he's telling everybody. It's
(23:09):
not just her that he's telling is gay, that he's gay.
He's telling everybody. Oh, I don't like it. I'm sorry, Rachel,
I'm getting the hebgb's this whole podcast, Okay, Cecilia.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
I got pregnant nineteen years old. Halfway through my pregnancy,
my mom called me and told me she needed me
to meet someone. My mom has always been a bit sketchy, shady.
I don't know a better way to explain it, but
she is my mom, so I always gave her a pass. Well.
I met up with her at a coffee shop, like requested,
and there was this random man sitting there with her.
I sit down and she goes, what I cheated on
(23:41):
your dad nineteen years ago. The dad who raised you
is not your dad. This man is. He has cancer
and has less than a year to live, so I
wanted to give you the opportunity to meet him. So
she lied to me in my entire life. Also cheated
and let my dad, who wasn't really my dad, think
I was his kid the entire time, and also lied
to this man about having his kid. She was so
(24:03):
nonchalant about it too. Never apologize what never apologized either.
I'm now fifty four years old and I often think
how different my life would have been. How a sociopath
not raised me.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
This is horrendous. I'm speechless at this one. This is
this is insane, this is its own documentary.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. On a scale of one to ten,
this is this is a tenor.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
And also, how do you even if the lie is
that big? How do you know that this is now
the truth? That's what's so scary about these people, right,
what's so scary is it's like, even if they apologize
and said all the right things, if you let them
back into your life ever in any form, is this
now the truth? Or are they I just want to know, like,
(24:53):
do these people live forever? Is their recovery in this
situation like this? I don't know. We need a mental
health professional on here to tell us because I would
cut I wouldn't be able to talk to this mom ever. Again,
what's true? What's not? If you can lie that big
and you're casual about it?
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Yeah, I think it's But I think it's also it's
got to be somewhere in your mind you it's the
no remorse, It's the no it's the no empathy. It's
it's not having the feelings receptors that let you know
that this is so hurtful, that this would hurt your child,
that she didn't know who her dad was, and that
she does a dad it's not really her dad, and
(25:35):
now you're just casually bringing this guy to a diner
when you're half pregnant, and it's just all bad.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
I can't imagine. I find it hard to even like,
I mean, I don't really small lie about anything to
my kids, but I find it. I mean sometimes I do,
Like I have one word for you, what Santa? Okay,
if Santa was not real, which he is everybody he
definitely is, I would even dread the day that I
(26:06):
had to reveal that he wasn't real, which he is.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, So for someone to do this, it's it's just
so I can't It's again, these are things that you
can't comprehend. They don't make sense, they don't compute like
you can't.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, the tooth fairy. Yeahby well, can you stop? Should think?
Because I was thinking about whether or not I lie
to my kids, and I was thinking, hey, I think
that sometimes. I mean, you never said something was closed
when it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (26:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, I don't know if I feel real
guilty about buyout, no honey, no sclowse Ron, I just
go on my merry way.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
I'm definitely there's a lot of things that are close
truth about some things. Actually I can't.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
No, you're bringing up no, I like two with my
kids for sure, No, for sure, for sure, there is
they've run out of Rocky Road.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Yeah, completely out of that definitely, definitely, yeah, oh for sure.
And once they start getting a little bit older, I
a real sticky one I have found because I consider
myself someone who has, you know, real conversations with my kids.
And they're going to start asking you about things like
(27:30):
when did you first have sex?
Speaker 4 (27:33):
And when did you have did you ever do drinks?
And when did you have your first drink? And you're
forty five? Yeah, twenty five was the answer to all those.
And I've never touched weed.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
That's what you're gonna say.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
It's really I gotta tell you it's no, that's that's
not fun. That's not fun. You know what's really funny.
I mean, this is like comp kind of off topic.
But when I was little, this is a white lie.
My mom told me I always wanted and we just
couldn't afford them, the power wheels cars. And my mom
(28:14):
told me that, and I wanted that. I was like,
we can't afford it, but Santa can make anything. And
she would always tell me, Kamla, it's going to take
up a lot of room on the sleigh. Yeah, he
was some kids losing out on their toys to make
way for your Barbie power wheels. Go ahead and write it,
And of course I was like, oh my god, no,
(28:35):
I can't do that, and so.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Little the lot. Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that
we lie to our kids more than we think we do.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, I said, I did say on here just
now that I don't tellw many little lies, and I
realized i'd tell many of them.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
Yeah, any big ones, Okay, I'm sorry. My last thing
about the kids, No, I have noticed, since they spanned
from eight to seventeen, I have noticed that there's I
have to like when they ask me a question that
I am not going to give them the honest answer to.
I have to quickly calibrate how old they are and
(29:10):
if they will be able to fact check. That is important. Yeah,
because I'm not going to get caught.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
No, but do your kids know your caught face? Because
your mom knows it?
Speaker 4 (29:21):
I know.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Well maybe since maybe from all these years of acting,
I've gotten it better.
Speaker 3 (29:26):
No, I don't.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I'm a badler. I am, actually I.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Think I know I think I am too. Okay, Gabby
is really excited for this topic. She wrote, I hope
(29:49):
everyone as well, and I'm so excited for this topic.
I have this friend who lies about everything for attention.
Some examples are that she lies about getting injured and
it doesn't correlate with a timeline. She gives, lies about
sleeping with people, lies about moving, just stuff like that.
(30:10):
One time she lied saying that her car got flipped
and rolled three times.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Like what the hell?
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Why in the world would you want to lie about
something so intense like that. She also said this after
someone we knew had just rolled their car. I'd understand
her and her logic, and I'm currently ghosting her because
I just can't do it anymore.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
That sucks. I think I had a friend in sixth
grade who lied a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
Well, this is someone older, this is someone who can drive.
I get like, there's gonna be kids say yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, yeah, I went to grade school story.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
I mean, I you know, we all, yes, we all
had the you know the I mean the stupidest lies
that I got told when I was little by other friends.
So I still think of one of them. Gladiators in
the UK was like such a huge show, and she
told me that the Pink Gladiator, who is my favorite
jet Inland, lived with her grandma and let her try
on her uniform. And I was like, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
We were like, Saven see this one I'm talking about.
I think there's a there's a there's a window of
lying that actually is just part of your development. I
think that you're I think that those lies.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
I think we're.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Probably I mean, I'm maybe I'm just convincing myself that
I don't have issues. But yeah, I think that that's normal,
like having those lies. But it's when you're in a
grown up that's different. Okay, isy gosh, another just I mean,
what is wrong with people? I hate to say it,
but my father turned out to be a massive liar.
My dad is a firefighter and for five months he
was carrying out a whole other life with a female
(31:36):
cop who happened to work in the same city as him,
for five whole months. During these five months, my dad, mom,
my brother, and I went on a family vacation, and
this whole family vacation, he and the woman were in
contact with each other. When my dad came out and
told us about the affair. He said he would discontinue
any contact with the woman. A few days later, my
mom went to go talk with my dad at our
yacht club because he was staying on the boat. Lo
(31:57):
and behold the woman was with him when my mom
show up. Ah, wrong with people?
Speaker 1 (32:05):
What the heck? The dads aren't looking so good today?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I mean, neither was a bad mother, was a bad
mom mom too bad liar, lying liar. How do you
deal with a liar? Good question?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How do you deal with a liar? I mean, when
the liars are this big, I do think for the
sake of your sanity, you can't have that person in
your life.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah. I was gonna say total abandoned jump ship, but.
Speaker 1 (32:32):
This is really hard. So I mean, some of these
people are related if you're married to them, I mean yeah,
married related. They're your mom, that your dad.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
Yeah, and by the way, the extent that they go
through to do. I have another bad story, a bad
dad story. I just heard this from a friend of
mind that there was a dad who was like again,
picture perfect, like squeaky, cleaning, always game like, always taking
the kids everywhere, and he was with the daughter I
don't even know how she was and she had his phone,
(33:03):
and he kept getting hit up by this. But it
was a contact that was like in there is like
not the right name. Yeah, And she looked at it
and it was sexy talk. And then because these things
happen when you find them, you for some reason cannot
look away. You have to keep looking. Yeah, you got
(33:24):
to start scrolling. The finger comes out, you're swiping, you're strolling,
you're scrolling, you're scrolling an swiping, You're doing all the things.
And she got into some seriously Shenanigany territory. There was sex,
there were boobs, there was all of it. All it
one person. Yes, but I'd been going on for a
(33:46):
very long time. Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot the punchline.
It was her friend's mom.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
No, yes, no, yeah, yeah again.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
I for some reason, these crazy stories come out. I'm like, oh, I.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Get So the friend is now involved. That's what sucks too.
Now the friend is involved, And how does she feel
about the mom, And.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
How does she tell them? How does she Yeah, he
should tell them, but then she no, And then that's
a heat. The message killed the messenger. The whole thing
is just awful, terrible, terrible, And that's the thing I
think that I really don't like about liars. They really
take people down, you know, they change your life with lies.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
Yeah, well your trust well, I mean there's so many
things that are affected, but your foundation for trust feels
really shaken. Mm hmm, especially when they especially when it's
just so wild where you're listening to it and it's
still like the person that we're talking about. For us personally,
(34:45):
I still can't compute. It still doesn't like compute for me.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
Why I accept it? So I'm like, oh, yeah, because
it doesn't because I'm like.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It doesn't feel real almost.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
No, No, it does not feel real.
Speaker 1 (34:57):
No, And for these people, I imagine it takes a
very long time or maybe it never feels I mean,
to be honest, the one with the mom who said
that you know this is your dad, I would need
the DNA test. I wouldn't even want to take her
word on it. Yeah, Like what makes me believe this
new lie?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:15):
What's slightly terrifying is we made these videos, I mean
put them out on Instagram, and we just got so
many submissions and they weren't small stories. I mean, we
can dig into this morning another episode. Obviously, this is
a huge subject affecting so many people. They were huge,
huge monumental betrayals. Yeah, because that's what the line ends
(35:40):
up being, ends up being a betrayal of your trust,
of your friendship.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
They literally had well we had hundreds of submissions. Yeah,
hundreds in like twenty four hours. Yeah, fightening.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
It's frightening because you feel like you imagine that there
aren't that many people walking around the world who can
lie like this, and when you see from our crew
the response, You're like.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
Wait, this is so creepy. Yeah. You know what I
think it makes uh for some some good therapy after
you've been lied to, is talking about it, like I mean,
like calling a friend and like just getting it all out,
like because I feel like that's what's happened with this
documentary is people just want to talk about it because
(36:22):
they can't wrap their heads around it. They can't think
of how, you know, someone could ever lie like that.
But I do have to say, and again I'm a
I'm not I'm was just a person that worked there
as well, right, Like, I'm not a huge part of
the story, but I can tell you that the very
many people who have reached out to me, I wanted
to talk about it. I think that they feel like
some uh and they're not even personally involved, but I
(36:44):
think they feel better when they've just like heard a
little bit more talked it out. I think that it's
so just like you said, it's so unsettling to think
that there are people out there who can, who can,
who can behave that way.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Well, that's why it's interesting, And I think great when
our crew write in and they just they give us
their stories, because I think sharing them, there's somebody else
listening to this, thinking my experience with this person was
so wild it can't possibly it must be so rare.
And then you're hearing other people and you're like, wow,
that's that's even worse or that's the same, or that's the.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
And there's other people dealing with this and yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Exactly, which is why we wanted to do this episode,
because it does feel kind of isolating when you've been
in a situation that feels insane.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
I always find that when I'm dealing with people who
I can't who I feel like I feel an instinct
about that I can't trust, or if I have been
in relationships with people where it's such an overused term
these days, I think, but I actually mean it in
the truest sense of its meeting, which is gaslighting where
someone's you know, you're saying, hey, but I didn't love
when this happened, and they're like, what are you talking about?
That didn't happen? Yeah? Really? Yeah, are you sure? Because
(37:57):
I and it's wild because of course it usual really
only happens when it's you and that person in conversation, right,
like when there's witnesses, there's no it's a little bit harder.
But yeah, I've had a couple people in my life
where I'm like, can I just like put a GoPro
on my head? Like, do you mind if I just
videotape all of our interactions because this feels unsafe, Like
you feel like being with you and being in relationship
(38:19):
with you makes me feel like I'm living in the
upside down. Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I don't know if I could have very close relations
with people that know.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
But sometimes you're forced into it. I mean, sometimes you
just have people in your life where you know, either
by circumstance or yeah, of course all the different things
there they are. But I do think, yeah, that's that's
I think that's my last thought on it is that
I do think that there are big fat liars out there,
and I can only imagine that we all experience them,
(38:49):
and that the only uh, the only way out is
the rough that lie and to talk about it with
other people and figure out how to get right with
it and understand that you didn't contribute to it and
exactly send them on their way. And by the way,
I feel like when people have, you know, lied a lot. Again,
I'm a big fan of when people have lied a lot.
(39:11):
I'm a big fan of getting your way to forgiveness.
But I don't think you need to forget it. I
think that was actually information that's necessary in going forward
in a relationship with that person. Yeah, I agree that
bye bye bye.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
All right, I think we need to We keep saying
this that it's only because the crew is just so
incredible that I'm like, we need enough. We gotta do more.
We got to get through more of your submissions and stories.
But for now, we're gonna call it just the end
of the lying episode.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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