August 12, 2024 • 48 mins
For the first time, Camilla opens up about the secret she’s been keeping. She gets candid with vestibular audiologist and neuroplasticity therapist, Joey Remenyi, and is spilling all the details. This may even be something you have as millions of people suffer from this. With the help of an expert, we are determined to help her get through it.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Call It what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So everyone listening, I hope this is I'm gonna give
it a whirl.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Okay, tell me what you think.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Call It Crew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Was that good? That was pretty good?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know what, It's got.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
A little groove in it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I want to shake it up.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I'm feeling kind of like sexy all of a sudden.
Thanks for letting me try that on for size.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh my gosh, I think now it's it's imperative that
we take turns.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Maybe we do. I don't know. It's hard, it's yours,
it's yours. No, it's ours, it's yours. Well, this one,
this episode, Call It Crew, I'm gonna talk about some
thing that I actually have not really talked about before,
definitely have not talked about in detail, and we wanted
(01:08):
to make a special episode about it and have someone
on that was an expert because I have since discovered
that there are millions and millions and millions of people
also diagnosed with this and it felt very lonely when
I first realized I had it. And it's okay, So
we're just gonna we're gonna talk about Jess.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I was gonna say, they're gonna have a lot of guesses.
It's gonna be really traumatic.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, no, it's not. Okay. Two ish three, maybe twoish
years ago, I was watching Ghostbusters and there are a
lot of silent parts in it. And I turned to
Matt and I said, is the TV buzzing? I was
very confused and he was like no. I'm like, do
you hear that ringing in your ear? And he was like, no,
(01:55):
I don't. And long story short, I realized that I
I had something called Tonight's which is and I still
have it to this day, which is a constant noise.
Actually I don't have it. You can have it in
one ear or the other ear. I only have it
in my right ear. I have it right now. I
(02:15):
can always hear it. And it was very distressing to
me because I realized, after a few days, oh, I
still hear this constantly. I'm not sure this is something
that's going to go away. And I have to say
that I was really devastated over it. I heard it
(02:38):
very loudly a lot. I found it very hard to parent.
I was so self conscious. I felt like I was
going a little crazy, and I ended up doing a
hearing test and finding out that I also had some
hearing loss. Apparently I am have the hearing of someone
who is more like sixty years old and found that
(03:02):
news very distressing. And then I was told that Tonight's
could be caused by some sort of hearing loss I
don't need right now. I don't need a hearing aid,
although I'm sure I may need one at some point,
maybe in my forties, and I'm going to rock that,
by the way. Everyone but that it could also be
caused by a tumor, so I had to go for
an MRI. It was a whole thing where they had
(03:23):
to make sure that I didn't have a tumor and
I did not have a tumor on my scan, and
then I had to learn that this was something that
wasn't going to go away and I had to live
with it. And it's taken me some time, and I've
learned that after the pandemic especially, But I want to
ask our amazing expert on about this. That more and
(03:44):
more young people quote unquote have come forward with saying
that they have Tonightis and being diagnosed with it, and
I want to talk about it, because honestly, it was
not something that I knew a lot about and I
kind of want to get into it and for anyone
listen that has vertigo also can be another symptom of it.
I just think it would be really nice to feel
(04:07):
comforted by knowledge and stories.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
This has never come up in our friendship, only when
we started working on the podcast, and obviously multi layer
aspects of who we are come to light. And another
one of the producers on the show also has experienced
this and it was incredibly interesting to hear you two
talk about it the way that you reported how you felt,
(04:33):
what you felt when you felt it, and then also
obviously just the bigness of it that I had. I
had no idea what was happening in your life. So
today we have an expert. Her name is Joey Ramenie
and she is a trained vestibular audiologist and a national
best selling author. She is also the founder and director
(04:54):
of Seeking Balance International. She supports people from all over
the world on how to change their brain body with
the neuroplasticity recovery process. She is from Melbourne and she
is here today with us to discuss all and I'm
so excited to learn more this. I feel like this
is a learning of journey.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Hi Joey, Hello Joey, Hi, Hi, welcome to the pod.
Call it what it is. We are so excited to
have you. I'm personally so excited to have you on.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I'm delighted to be invited. So sunny Australia, warm vibes.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I want to dive in a little bit because
when I was first diagnosed with tonight is what I
was told was that the sound that I was hearing
is not a sound that actually really exists and is
something my brain. This is what I was told, but
I don't know, was just something my brain was making up,
(06:01):
basically imagining.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
There's so many different ways to describe tinatus. It is
it's a sound that is generated inside of our body
that nobody else can hear. And it could be sounds
and mechanically generated like if you think about just even
popping your elbow or your knee, so it could be
inside the ear. There's tiny little bones and muscles, so
(06:24):
that is a type of tinatus, which is like a
mechanical generated sound. But what you're referring to there is
there's other biological events happening. So every single moment of
the day, there's a lot of neurons firing in terms
of our thoughts, our emotions, just making sense of the world,
you know, sensing the wind and the pressure of the
chair or the clothes we're wearing. So all of that
(06:45):
neurological activity also has the potential to create kind of
sound in the brain, in the auditory cortex that we
become aware of. And that's why often when we're experiencing
chronic stress, so we're just really busy, we can hear
this white static in our head and it's like the
brain is like fizzing and buzzing like a disco So
(07:06):
it's real, it's happening. The question of whether we hear
it or not I put down to this filter system,
so the brain is actually looking for okay, is this
useful information? Is a boring not relevant? So if I
hear the washing machine or the fridge whirring, often we
filter that out because we just know it's not making
(07:27):
our life better by noticing those sounds. I often think
about the body sensations as like little messages from our soul.
You know. The body is kind of the sacred filter
as we're living through this cosmic life, and the body
is essentially saying, hey, you might want to pause and
slow down. I've got some things to digest, you know,
(07:48):
I've got some difficult conversations to have, or I've got
this stock take I need to do in life. So
sometimes I think the tinatus can actually be the body's
way of drawing us inwards and asking us to pause
and slow down a little bit for any myriad number
of reasons. But it can also just be a false alarm.
So the sound comes in, we get a shock, and
(08:11):
then someone freaks us out and says, oh my god,
you can't cure it. You're gonna have it forever. And
then that just generates its own little panic cycle, which
means it slips through the filter. We keep noticing it,
and we keep going, oh my god, is it there?
Is it? There?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Is it there?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And it's kind of just a false alarm cycle that
we have to unwind.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
That's what I when I first had it, I was
definitely looking for it all the time because I was
hoping that it had gone. I was hoping that had gone.
And a doctor told me that it really helped me.
He said, listen at some point, you will hear it
a lot less because it's like when you wear clothes,
a sensation of clothes on your body. You don't feel
(08:48):
it anymore, right, You're not looking for that sensation, and
it will be something that your senses sort of filter out.
So I can hear it right now, but it's much
much quieter, and through my day I can't really I
don't pay attention to it anymore. However, I know for
other people there are different versions of these sounds, right,
So I've heard that sometimes it can sound like a
(09:10):
worshing sound, and my tonights is it sounds like that.
You know when you leave a concert and it's like
that high kind of just you've probably had that feeling
you leave a loud concert and there's like it. It
almost sounds like yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So, as the person sort of on the outside of
this for a second, I just want to catch myself
up and maybe catch other people listening up. Can we
just take a moment to go to the origin story
of it, because obviously, Camilla, you had a life before
it and then there was a recognition of its presence.
So tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
This was very soon after the pandemic. I had a
young child, and I, you know, we've talked on the
pot about stress and anxiety and all those things. When
I'm hearing you talk and it's about like a sign
at your body, maybe like hey, stop, there's something going on.
I think that I was diagnosed with some hearing loss
(10:07):
right because I had to go have a I talked
about how I had to go have a hearing test
and I have the hearing of like a sixty year old.
So I understand that it could be purely from hearing loss. However,
I do think that it was also triggered by stress
for me. And I heard that more young people were
diagnosed with tonight as after the pandemic. Is that true.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, there's so many factors at play, but yes, and
also chronic dizziness, which is the other. So these are
both invisible symptoms generated from the inner ear. So that's
kind of my geeky realm. So chronic dizziness, chronic brain fog,
even visual spotting and dotting like from using lots of screens,
from lots of zoom. And yeah, all the stresses of
(10:54):
the pandemic and the lockdowns and homeschooling and just the
compounding layers of life demands. I think it genuinely has
impacted our sensory system and our brain's capacity to juggle everything.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was told that it is not curable, and that
is what was very maddening to me early on. What
would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, I can actually feel my blood boiling, like, this
is why I have seeking balance and do what I do,
because it's it's unfair to say that it's not true,
it's inaccurate. As these beautiful biological beings that we are,
we are constantly in dynamic change like no, like we
literally have cells dying and replenishing on three seven ten
(11:39):
day cycles. We are being remade all the time and reborn.
So nothing is static, nothing is forever. And the sounds
that our body makes and the way we interpret them
is such a dance. It is such a maneuverable, beautiful
dance that we participate in. So if I concentrate on
my tenetus all the time, if I worry about it,
(11:59):
if I focus on it, if I pay attention to it,
my brain actually says, Okay, Team Joey's really interested in this.
She's studying it all the time, she's talking about it,
she's thinking about it. So let's give her more neurological
attention to this sound. We'll give her more neurons, We'll
give her more, and then she'll be able to better
study it. So I'm actually participating in the tinatus sound
(12:20):
by directing all of that focus and attention, and I
get that biological dance. It responds to me and gives
me more. I've had tinatus by the way, so I
get it. On the other hand, what I do with
my rock steadic community and people who are using neuroplasticity
and this holistic way of approaching it is that we
(12:40):
understand that, Okay, the body is talking to me, but
it's usually not about the tinatus itself. You can think
about it like the smoke and the fire. So if
your house is on fire and you're just obsessed about
the smoke, you miss the fire. So underneath the tinatus
there's usually a conversation, which could be am I actually
getting enough time to myself? Am I prioritizing everybody else's needs?
(13:02):
And I'm falling way back second? You know, am I
just the cook? Am I the taxi? Am I? Am
I in the right job? Am I in the right marriage?
So sometimes it's about really pausing and saying, am I
actually getting my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual needs met? And
even more importantly, do I know what brings me enjoyment
(13:23):
and pleasure? Am I actually telling my brain, hey, focus
on all those moments I feel grounded? Because if I'm
very much paying attention to my feet, am I pulvis
and dropping into what feels nice and comfortable? I get
more of that neurological activity. So I'm shaping my internal
experience of the day by how I'm in communication with
(13:44):
my body. So this mind body very intimate connection. On
a side note, the mind body is essentially the one
thing there is no disconnect. So yeah, it's about really
participating in how we are shaping and crafting the interior
landscape of our mind body neurology. So building these sensory
(14:05):
maps is exactly what I do for a living. So yes,
it's changeable. I don't actually think tentatus needs a cure.
I think it comes and goes at the perfect time
for us in life. And it's not actually a disease
or a diagnosis per se. I would say it's more
of a healthy biological event that we participate in.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have so many questions so when I first could
hear it, I found it so distressing that if somebody
had told me trying not to concentrate on that, it
was all that I felt like a vicious cycle of like,
don't concentrate on that. Now you're hearing it. Now you're
making it worse your approach to it. I know, I'm
sure it's you can't go through it all obviously on
(15:00):
just a podcast. But what are some of the first
things you do to help people with it?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah? Well, first and foremost, honestly, I think it's important
to freak out and focus on it and actually go
through that rite of passage because in essence, we all
do that, all of us, me too. So just to
really acknowledge and honor that it's okay to focus on it,
worry about it, all of that is a sign that
I care about myself, that it's all coming back to
well being in self care. So different people will spend
(15:29):
shorter or longer amounts of time in that phace. Some
people will literally spend eight years, others are week and
they move through that really quickly and they're like, Okay,
what can I do? So the second bit would be
actually get accurate information you know, don't necessarily believe your doctors.
What they were teaching us in university twenty thirty forty
(15:50):
years ago is different to what we know today. So
there is there are myths.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
What are some of those myths that you could that
you can't cure it? Okay?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Is not necessarily associated with hearing loss. You can have
tinatus and absolutely perfect hearing. You can have terrible hearing
loss and no tinatus. They're independent events.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
If I was if the tenatus is from or tonights
is from hearing loss though, can it still be cured?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yes? The tinatus itself is a neurological signal. So your
neurons have got these little fingertips that are sending electro
chemicals along these neural pathways literally through your body and brain.
It's not just the brain, it's not just the years,
it's the entire system. And one of those neural patterns
or neural maps is generating a sound. And what happens
(16:41):
is when we change our relationship to the sound, which
is part of the rock steady process. I walk people
through and it's not straightforward, you know, it's the full package, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual.
It takes time. It takes work, but as we change
our relationship to that neural map, we can essentially make
it louder or make it softer. And we're in the
driver's seat. So right now I can actually tune into
(17:04):
my tenetus and like if I want to hear it,
I can or I cannot. So I begin to actually
be the queen of my kingdom, and I'm choosing how
I shape the internal landscape. So a lot of it's
about getting that accurate information about what is it, how
am I participating in what's going on between my brain
and body, and where do I have choice and where
(17:26):
do I actually have to surrender because there's nothing I
can do, so that the letting go and the surrender
is certainly equally important. We can't control it all.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I know from reading that some people have it so loud.
I've heard that people it sounds almost like a jet
taking off. Yeah, So for the people that have it
that loud, that extreme all the time, because it's not
how mine has manifested, are you able to help people
(17:58):
that have had it that extra Yes?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The answer is yes, And part of it is we
need to get back into the body. Right If we
focus heavily on whatever's going on between the ears, we
do end up keeping ourselves in a nervous system state
of flight freeze or fam so we end up in
these trauma looping and from that place it's really hard
to use neuroplasticity to disengage the tinator's signal and build
(18:24):
a new map. So getting into the body and body
scanning is really really primal. We have to get back
into our feet, into our legs, into our pulverse, and
essentially move the attention and focus away from above the shoulders.
So that can be really really nourishing and supportive, especially
if people do have significant traumas, and the tinatus is
like a byproduct of that. So getting back into the
(18:46):
body is really important. So that was what we call
bottom up therapies, sensing and feeling in the body itself.
Top down aspects is when we go okay. So I
have a lived example of this at a really really
busy day, I think it was pre Christmas shopping Da
da da da dada. Came home, just crashed out on
the couch and was like whoa super loud tenatus, like
(19:07):
you know, nine out of ten, and it sounded like
I was hiking in Tasmania in this incredible forest and
I'd found a little tin shed and there was really
really really strong rain, really heavy rain, and I'm in
a tiny shed. The rain is pounding down on this
like corrugated tin iron roof and it's extremely loud. So
(19:29):
the top down process there was rather than freak out,
I lay on the couch and visualized hiking and being
in the sanctuary of this little tin shed while there's
a torrential downpour. So what that means is I had
emotionally associated the sound with a nature hike and a
sanctuary and a pause. And so with that emotional association
with the actual sound, I'm not pushing it away. I'm
(19:52):
not trying to get rid of it. I'm actually welcoming
it in and creating a creative imaginal space where my
body has a place. So it's like it's bringing in
that sense of Okay, this sound belongs here right now,
and before you know it, you're rough daydreaming, you forget
about it, and it just fizzles into the background. So
we have these skills and tools that we can start
to employ and use once we're not really really lodged
(20:17):
in that place between the ears and the midbrain where
we're stuck in the fight flight freeze form trauma patterns.
That's a really really difficult place to be and the
you know, the longer we're there, the more we get.
I think the consequences of consequences through the chronic stress
patterns and cycles, which actually goes beyond just poor digestion
(20:40):
and sort of skin issues and into relationship breakdowns, difficulty
with Korea, like not unable to attend work. You know,
there really are so many debilitating consequences if these chronic
and visible symptoms are not attended to with holistic care.
You know, it's not just about is and people are
(21:01):
not making it up. They are real neural signals that
need real neural support.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I love this conversation so much because one thing that
really helped me is I was trying to describe the
noise to my husband one time because I was like,
I just wish you could hear it and just experience
this for a second. And in trying to describe it,
I said, you know what it sounds like when it's
really loud, It sounds like there's crickets outside at night. Well,
I actually love that sound in the evening, sitting on
(21:29):
a porch when I, you know, go visit family in Kentucky,
and I love that sound. It's a very soothing sound
to me. And the second I said that, I was like, Oh,
it's actually no I can kind of work with that.
And so sometimes when I'm stressed out and I hear it,
I always I kind of think, how you thought, like, okay,
(21:51):
the rain and the shed, I think to myself, Okay,
I'm on the porch outside it's a crickets at night,
and it changed my relationship a little bit with the
sound itself. I have noticed, and I want to know
your opinion on this. I've noticed certain things that I
feel like can make it worse, But I don't know
(22:12):
if it's just in my head. For example, lack of
sleep the next morning, if I drink too much alcohol
the night before, and if I eat too much salt,
And I don't know if those are things that you
have heard people say before. I'm sure you probably have.
But are there literal things that we're ingesting in our
(22:33):
body sleep? I can see how that relates to the stress,
but are things that we're ingesting in our body that
can make it worse or is that just me feeling
that way imagined.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
You're absolutely noticing things, and everybody is different, like no
true human beings on the planet are wide in the
same way. So it's really important that people are given
this self authority and self permission to go. Actually, this
is how my body is responding to that caffeine or
you know that high process food, or you know this
type of hydration and sleep needs. Like actually learning to
(23:05):
respond to the cues of the body and take ownership over. Okay,
and maybe different to other people, but I am noticing
I need nine hours sleep at night, or I function
so much better if I just get up at six
am every day and that becomes a consistent routine for me.
So yes, what you're noticing is very real and true,
and it will change, you know, as we go through
(23:25):
different phases of life, some of those things won't have
effect anymore. So again, we're dynamic, we are changing, but
learning to be and call and response between my inner
world and what I'm sensing and feeling, which which you know,
I'm a bit of a neural nerd, but everything really
is a neural signal, whether it's an emotion, whether it's
(23:45):
a memory and intuition, a sensation a thought. These are
all neurons bouncing around through the body. That's our inner world,
that's our inner landscapes and inner architecture. And then the
outer world is our conversations, our friends, whether the wind,
the food, alcohol. We're actually learning to dance between the
inner and outer world and become really fluent in that
(24:07):
and to fully participate so that we're a feeling safe
and robust and connected more often, and b we're noticing
when okay, this is actually taking my energy. Okay, this
is my boundaries. You know, we're starting to learn where
do I end and where do you begin? And I
(24:28):
think in the modern day world, we are literally drowning
in data. We're drowning in all of these outer world inputs.
We're losing ourselves and we're merging with other people and
other places and other politics, and it's really really frightening.
And I think to survive, we numb ourselves go grab
you know, more food, or more coffee, or more alcohol,
or go shopping. Like we really move to outer world
(24:50):
distractions to cope, and the body samata sizes and that's
when we get our tenetus in our dizziness and our
brain fog and the chronic fatigue that you know, you
just wake up Monday morning with dread because you've got
to do the whole week again. So this idea of
cleaning out our inner world outer world messiness and having
those stronger boundaries that brings us into sovereignty, that brings
(25:11):
us into self authority, self permission. So yeah, the short
answer is yes, what you're noticing is real, and just
because it's real for you doesn't mean it's real for
the next person. So again, really honoring uniqueness, individuality, and
I think having sas you know, having a little bit
of that badass, unapologetic this is my body, this is
my life.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh she's got that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, he's got that.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
So I'm listening to you, and first of all, I'm
it's like intoxicating. I'm like, I'm watching you and I'm
listening to you dark and I'm like yes and yes
and yes.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well this is reminding me of when you had your
eye twitch and you were talking. Yeah, this is what
this is reminding me about. I think you have to
repeat the story so that Joy can hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Well, I mean I again, Kimila and I a joke
or do we that we like to bring it back
to how we've expect something. And since I'm on the
outside of this little diad, I got an eye twitch.
And it was during a time where I think that
my body was saying.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Hold the fuck up, Yeah, you need.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
To calm down, you need to chill out, you need well, actually, honestly,
more than anything, I think, it was like I need
your attention. You're not paying attention to me, and I wasn't.
I was like, just keep swamming, just keep swamming. I've
got this, We've got this, and to keep going. And
I would stand there talking to someone while I was
(26:33):
trying to get something done, and I would be holding my.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Eyelid and because it lasted a year for her, it
lasted a year.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And people would be like, why are you holding your
eye lid? And they're like, well, I just it's not
you can't see it, but I can. So is that something?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
My guess is that all those neuropathways are obviously looking
to different. We have a news that that's another form
of it.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yes, And like this trim twitching, jerking, they're actually like
little ways the neural system is expelling and discharging a
pent up neurological energy. So it's like, so the next
book I'm writing is actually talking about how we digest
and metabolize and excreet all the invisible data that we're
(27:20):
taking in. So as we go about our day, we're
taking in like politics, judgments, assumptions, cultural nuance, thoughts. You know,
even if like someone was to give you the evil
eye and give you a bit of a smirk so
that no words passed, but there is a message they're
coming like in all of this human relating, and we
have to take that in and digest it. And so
(27:41):
the body's literally riddled with all of these neurological traffic
jams and undigested life experience where we haven't been able
to biochemically complete what we've just experienced in the day.
This is when people come to me because they're smaticizing,
and I help them learn to integrate and excrete. So
it's not actually all about tinatus and dizziness. It's the
(28:01):
whole human experience.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So only because I'm trying to also be a person
who I mean, who doesn't semat size? Will you please define?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's the word we use when the symptomatology is coming up.
So the soma, the sematics the body. So the physical
body is beginning to say okay, shoulders tenching or eyelids twitching,
and this is the body doing what it's yeah to
complete its biochemical processes.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So in my experience, my body has told me things
that my mind hasn't. So for me, a sematic response
would be I've talked about this before. When I'm in
a difficult conversation, when I'm nervous, when I'm just feeling
challenged on some level, I can instantly feel my body
(29:03):
temperature rise and I get armpit sweat super cute. I know,
I know, it's charming. It's a really lovely part of me.
You can all just imagine me with my armpit sweat
rings right now. But I instantly start sweating. And it's
how I know, because sometimes my mind is like, again,
(29:25):
just keep swimming, you've got this. I'm an opt I
skew optimistic. I've dealt with a lot in my life.
I've kept going. I know I can, or at least
I believe I can. I think and there and therefore
I am. But my body, it's it's it's it's actually
a weird. Obviously, it's like an inverse of some people's challenge.
(29:46):
Some people are like, I can't do it. I can't
do it. I can't do it. I'm like, I can
do it, and then my body is like nope, nope,
something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's just white knuckle to it. Make it happen. The
body's giving us that feedback loop, the Bayo feedback loop.
And you know, I just think you can't do life wrong.
It's not even about you know, I don't know, tuning
in and living perfectly. It's like when your body's really
going to talk to you, the pain gets higher. Like
pain is the body's most efficient form of communications. So
(30:16):
we do what we can until we reach that threshold
where we're like whoa, whoa, this is too much. And
that's usually when people come to me. But yeah, this
trip tremoring, jerking, twitching, that can actually be the body's
way of, in a healthy context, releasing neural excess energy
that doesn't need to live in the body. And that's
why actually shaking it out and dancing and physical activity
(30:39):
is so important for our health to complete some of
those biochemical processes.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And it's funny because we were talking about, you know,
not that a tremor is painful but that there are
these ways that our body experiences pain or discomfort and
it's actually got purpose. It's a signal. Yeah, it's letting
you know exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I would say every single thought, sensation, story, intuition, image,
all of it. I think all of it has its place.
And I really encourage people and teach people to pause
as often as they can, body scan and actually take
notice of what's going on in my body and multiple
(31:18):
times a day. And I call that collecting the warm data,
Like inside your body is the warm data that is
giving you that feedback. It's like the dashboard of your car.
It's always available to you. And then the cold data
is from outside of us. That's the outside looking in.
That's your test results, your blood tests, your MRI scans,
that's all the cold data. The warm data is that
(31:38):
intuitive data that's in the body, and we sense it
and feel it, and we get better and better and
better at that with practice and support, and in the
beginning we're just like, oh my god, it's just overwhelming.
I can't make sense of anything inside of me. But
it does honestly become much more fluid and fluid.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
One of the things I was told right at the
very beginning was to have white noise on in every
room so I could start to sort of tune it out.
Is that something that you would recommend for people listening?
What I'm just thinking, because why I'm asking is it
would be easier, much easier for me now to go
(32:19):
through a program that helps me. In the beginning, it
was so distressing. My anxiety about it was so bad
that it felt disoriented in you know, like I didn't
It's just I couldn't even hear my children. Even though
I could they were talking and I could hear them,
I couldn't that that's the only thing I could hear.
What is something initially you would recommend to help someone
(32:43):
sort of sender themselves that you've seen work.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Oh one hundred percent. Well, the body scan for sure,
if they're capable of that. Getting out in nature also
really really supportive and useful in so many levels, but
out and about around the house. I mean, any kind
of noise. If you want to use white noise, pink noise, whatever,
go for it. But I wouldn't use it to drown
out the sinatus because what that's doing is teaching the brain. Hey, brain,
(33:06):
we have a problem, focus on it. Get rid of it.
I talk about this in my book rock Steady. The
more we focus on the tinatus as a problem, the
more we neurologically exacerbate it, which keeps the perpetuated symptom loop.
So what I say to people is there's nothing wrong
with using noise, but just think about what's my motivation
if I put on my favorite playlist, like listening to
(33:26):
your podcast or you know, all this fun music to
match my mood. You know, maybe I'm sad and I
want to listen to blues music or Willie Nelson. Maybe
I want to dance, so I put on some Latin
music when I'm choosing the music, which is still going
to drown out the tinatus. But when I'm choosing the
playlist to get me in an emotional state that's coming
from a place of desire, pleasure, moving, you know music
(33:50):
took to cook to. Yeah, I'm actually achieving the same
purpose of shifting the neural activity away from the tintus.
But it's not coming from getting rid of it. It's
coming from moving toward the desire to feel my body
dance and move, to be emotionally connected. So I think
a lot of modern day therapies and tinatus retraining techniques,
(34:11):
they kind of miss the juicy importance of bringing the
emotional body along because we can't just look at the
physical it's if you look at the whole person. Actually,
you can't just look at the thoughts or just look
at the emotions, or just look at the sound. We
have to look at the whole person and say, Okay,
how can we best participate in these neural maps. And
(34:33):
it's going to be everything from body position to the
mindset and the thoughts to meaningfully addressing and meeting the
fears that are alive in that moment. We have to
digest and process the fears or the fears takeover. And
then the missing piece, which I really talk about at
length in my rock Steady book, is what do I
desire to feel? Because they're the neural pathways I need
(34:54):
to start focusing on. And if I want to feel connected, juicy, playful, free,
maybe I have a playlist that takes me on that
journey and I can groove to the music and then
I'm really firing the neurons and actually has nothing to
do with the tinatus. So again that's the smoke, not
the fire.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I think even the knowledge that something can be done
about it, because when you have it and you go
to a doctor and and you say this is so distressing,
it feels very isolating. Initially, and I felt very lonely
because I felt like I'm the only one that can
hear this, Nobody else can it. Just I felt very alone.
(35:35):
I think just the knowl if someone had just said
to me, Hey, there's actually a way to cure this
is what you're saying to write, I think I would
have felt gotten over hearing it so loudly a lot quicker.
I think the hopelessness comes from people saying there's nothing
(35:55):
to be done, and so that's why I feel like
this is so exciting, and I hope anyone listening, because
the more I said, oh I have this, I was
shocked at how many people around me were like, oh yeah,
I had that too.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It's one in three people, it's a lot. Not everybody
has it to psychologically distressing levels, but some people are
debilitated and suicidal. And there are so many people who
literally their lives are saved when they enter the rock
steady process because they get their life back.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's that duck I found that distressing too. I found
it very triggering to know that some people had ended
their own lives over it, because I thought, God, what
if it gets that bad one day? Because I understood
that mine wasn't the worst that it could be. I've
heard the sort of noises that other people hear sounds
other people here, and it was unimaginable to me.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
There's quite a few people that have written in, so
I would love to read some of their questions. If
that works for everyone, Yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
And can I just add here if you are listening
and you're really in that difficult alone place. On my website,
there are heaps of case studies of people who have
gone through it, and they've gone through the dark soul
of the night. They're on the other side, and I
think there's a lot of companionship gauging with real life
stories where you're getting it. We want to recondition ourselves
(37:33):
to believe in the body and to really participate in
the process and not feel like we're just passive victims
and lives being thrown upon us. So, yeah, the case
studies are powerful, and my book also, rock Steady, has
a lot of mythbusting and useful supportive tricks and ideas
and home practices that you can try straight away.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
And also we will put make sure this is in
all of our online for everybody. But can you just
say what your website is.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's seeking balance dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Okay, Anne wrote it, and she said, any quick and
easy solutions for dizziness because I get dizzy very often.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
My heart is with you, an I'm I'm gonna say
the body scan. It's all about reorienting ourselves to understand, Okay,
my shoulders are above my hips, I can feel both
feet on the ground. Like we want to really build
our neurological structures in the proprioceptive system, which is thirty
percent of our balance function. So you have your ears,
your eyes, and your proprioceptive system, which is a fancy
(38:34):
word for how we orient ourselves, how we locate ourselves
and the sensation of touch. So when we're swaying side
to side, our propriaceptive system is going okay, lifts and right,
and we hone that we absolutely refine that function through practice,
and my book Crop Steady has a lot of really
simple practices that will help you with that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Okay, yes, because I know that verdigo is part of this.
And I wrote in and they said that there is
constant itchy and cracking noises in the ear for months
a cause of concern. My current doctor has been very
dismissive and very agitated. Is that something that tonight's orus
can sound like? Can it sound like that?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yes? Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Am I itching too?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Itching?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Not so much?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
It's got no, it's just it's going a bit laterally.
But honestly, you can get dermatitis and like exma in
your ears. Oh and so you can medically soothe that,
or you know, olive oil is very safe to try
in the ears. Just a drop of olive oil and
just allow that to have a little bit of a
lubrication and moisturizing effect. But honestly, psoriasis treatments, all of
(39:46):
those things are still relevant. And and you know, try
a different doctor if you're feeling dismissed.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Always yes, advocating for yourself. So Kiki wrote in and said,
for several years, if I sleep my any side besides
my left, I get vertigo. Any suggestions on how to
fix this?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Well? BEPPV Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo is the technical term
for the most common form of vertigo. I've actually had
it twice. One in four people get it, so very
common and you can treat it. I talk about it
in my book. You can google it, and there's basically
little calcium carbonate odiconia molecules. They call them crystals, and
(40:29):
they live in the ears. They're healthy, but they can
fall out of their little bedroom and start rolling around
the ear. So if it's the right side that's getting dizzy,
it might be the right ear that's affected. So what
we do is we test and treat which ear where
the crystals are, and then we literally just roll them back.
It's like less than two minutes the treatment, and once
you're treated, you're treated full life.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's incredible, So it can come and go.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Like I said, I've had it twice, but you can
test and treat it literally on the spot. And in
my rock Steady program, I have a whole video tutorial
where people do that themselves. Because it's so debilitating, you
can be like, I never ever want to go traveling
ever again because I need to have my physiotherapist around
the corner nearby in case the crystals come out. So
it's really debilitating. But once you have this education that Okay,
(41:14):
I can test and treat myself. I can literally do
that in my hotel in Thailand. So really important to
get that kind of basic stuff covered because you don't
have to live with it, and many people do.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
My friend also has has been diagnosed with to notice
he wants to know if your treatment because this is
what I would keep reading when I would google. It
is part of it to do with listing to different frequencies,
because I've heard that that's something that people sometimes they
treat tonight us with that, although it doesn't necessarily sound
(41:49):
like it's a curing it.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah, look, I think we're really trained to look outside
of ourselves for answers to distract, to numb, to ignore,
to medicate, And I think some of these fancy devices
I don't recommend them, but I also don't not recommend them.
So it's like, you know yourself, if you love gadgets
and devices that lights you up, it makes you excited,
go for it in all that frequency matching.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Because you're getting that feeling internally, and that's really maybe
what that is.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, it's an emotional yearning for like, ah, you know,
I really want that inspector gadget watch and you know,
this makes me feel like I'm an avatar. So it's
like different strokes for different folks. But me, I would
go music. I would go the full spectrum of frequencies.
I would let myself be really flooded with music that
I love, rather than trying to isolate a frequency and
(42:37):
really overly obsess about something very linear. I always go
the nonlinear. I always go the complex. Human beings are complex,
and I think we need to meet complexity with complexity,
not try and make tenesis into some linear simple You know,
I have a splinter. Get the Tweezers pulled the splinter out.
This is not what we're talking about. It's going on LINEA.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I love what you've said repeatedly, which is the body scan,
because I do think. I mean, there's a whole book
about the body knows the score. Your body doesn't forget
all the things that's been through. It actually doesn't. Your
mind actually has a different and more sophisticated coping system,
but your body actually is a little more raw and
remembers it all. This has been so incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Thank you so much, incredibly.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Informative for me. I mean, sitting on the outside I
could watch you guys and hear and listen to you.
But thank you so much for spend Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yes, and I actually did not know that statistic of
one in three, So I'm sure so many people listening
will relate to this and be given hope. I really
you're the first, literally the first person I've heard that
could ever be like, wow, this is something that could
fix I love this. You still have it right I
can hear right now because we're talking about it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I smell a part too between you two.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I will happily have you on in listeners. If you
have more specific questions about this, please hit us in
the comments, hit us in our DMS.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
I really deliberately have a neurodiversity and complexity affirming community
because we're all so different, and so many of my
participants have not been believed. It's yes, it's heart wrenching
and neurodivergences and all of these things matter, like we
have to figure out what brain am I born with?
What body am I born with? How are they communicating?
And how can I fully participate? So I'm actually happy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Thank you so much for being joy.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We will have you back on pleasure. Yes, thank you
so much. This was so incredible. Thank you. Okay, bye bye.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Bye, have a great day you too.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I love that she joined us all the way from Australia.
I want to end this podcast just by saying that
Jess and I started this podcast to build community for
people not to feel so alone. When I first had this,
I felt so alon, I felt crazy, I felt like
it was maddening. And I know this is a very
(45:06):
specific topic that we are tackling today, but maybe you
even know someone in your life that has it and
you don't have it. Please please give this podcast to them.
It has meant so much to me just listening to this.
It really felt hopeless for a long time. And this
is very exciting, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yes, And obviously, I mean, you know when people when
we bring on the professionals, and we bring on the doctors,
and we bring on to the people who study these
things with their whole beings every single day, they have
a different set of vocabulary and there are always I
always love when I'm in a conversation when I hear
a new word.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Because I'm like, write it down, look.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It up, you know. So you know, she's clearly given
us so many things to think about, and so many
different words and ways of seeing things. And I'm so
excited to take my notes from today's podcast and double
click and look some words up and make sure that
I understand all that she was talking about. And I
(46:09):
have heard about body scans. It is definitely it's not
an actual scan, by the way. You don't go get
it in a doctor's office. And I don't want to
speak to it specifically because I don't know that I
will describe it as it should be described. But it
is definitely not a doctor's office visit. It is a
body scan that you do with yourself, and I'm going
to now go look it up so I re equate
(46:30):
myself with it. But it is something that I think
everyone should look into if you're interested in this topic,
and also please let us know what was interesting about
this and what you would like to know more about
if there's other subjects.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Because she's talking also about brain fog, and I know
that a lot of people, a lot of people right now,
I feel like they're suffering from that.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So, oh my gosh, as it pertains to long COVID,
as it pertains to perimenopause, menopause, we're going to talk
about that, by the way. Yeah, there's going to be
so many things that we're going to talk about, and
often we're going to talk about the chit chat and
the being together and all that, and then sometimes we're
gonna pull in these moments and I would love to
hear from you all and the crew, you know, how
you respond to it, if it's interesting, if it's like
(47:11):
what what would be what would be a topic that
you'd like to go do a deep dive into. And
because it's we're so lucky we have, you know, incredible
people that are really ready to come on and talk
to us.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, and if we don't know what it is, we
will find someone that does. We're all about those experts.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Let's go, let's go, let go.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I think that we we're gonna call it the end
of the episode, but I think that we I'm gonna
call it community because I think sharing all of this
kind of shit that feels lonely sometimes is gonna be
key to helping us all be so much happier. So
quite simply just happier at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yes, yes, and I will I will add to it.
I would also call it you are not.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Alone yeah, absolutely all right guys, thanks for joining us
and hit us up in the comments.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Thank you so much to Joey, Thank you Joey.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Bye.
Call It what It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So everyone listening, I hope this is I'm gonna give
it a whirl.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Okay, tell me what you think.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Hello, Hello, Hello, Call It Crew.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Was that good? That was pretty good?
Speaker 3 (00:32):
You know what, It's got.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
A little groove in it.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yeah, it does.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I want to shake it up.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yeah, I'm feeling kind of like sexy all of a sudden.
Thanks for letting me try that on for size.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Oh my gosh, I think now it's it's imperative that
we take turns.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Maybe we do. I don't know. It's hard, it's yours,
it's yours. No, it's ours, it's yours. Well, this one,
this episode, Call It Crew, I'm gonna talk about some
thing that I actually have not really talked about before,
definitely have not talked about in detail, and we wanted
(01:08):
to make a special episode about it and have someone
on that was an expert because I have since discovered
that there are millions and millions and millions of people
also diagnosed with this and it felt very lonely when
I first realized I had it. And it's okay, So
we're just gonna we're gonna talk about Jess.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I was gonna say, they're gonna have a lot of guesses.
It's gonna be really traumatic.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Yeah, no, it's not. Okay. Two ish three, maybe twoish
years ago, I was watching Ghostbusters and there are a
lot of silent parts in it. And I turned to
Matt and I said, is the TV buzzing? I was
very confused and he was like no. I'm like, do
you hear that ringing in your ear? And he was like, no,
(01:55):
I don't. And long story short, I realized that I
I had something called Tonight's which is and I still
have it to this day, which is a constant noise.
Actually I don't have it. You can have it in
one ear or the other ear. I only have it
in my right ear. I have it right now. I
(02:15):
can always hear it. And it was very distressing to
me because I realized, after a few days, oh, I
still hear this constantly. I'm not sure this is something
that's going to go away. And I have to say
that I was really devastated over it. I heard it
(02:38):
very loudly a lot. I found it very hard to parent.
I was so self conscious. I felt like I was
going a little crazy, and I ended up doing a
hearing test and finding out that I also had some
hearing loss. Apparently I am have the hearing of someone
who is more like sixty years old and found that
(03:02):
news very distressing. And then I was told that Tonight's
could be caused by some sort of hearing loss I
don't need right now. I don't need a hearing aid,
although I'm sure I may need one at some point,
maybe in my forties, and I'm going to rock that,
by the way. Everyone but that it could also be
caused by a tumor, so I had to go for
an MRI. It was a whole thing where they had
(03:23):
to make sure that I didn't have a tumor and
I did not have a tumor on my scan, and
then I had to learn that this was something that
wasn't going to go away and I had to live
with it. And it's taken me some time, and I've
learned that after the pandemic especially, But I want to
ask our amazing expert on about this. That more and
(03:44):
more young people quote unquote have come forward with saying
that they have Tonightis and being diagnosed with it, and
I want to talk about it, because honestly, it was
not something that I knew a lot about and I
kind of want to get into it and for anyone
listen that has vertigo also can be another symptom of it.
I just think it would be really nice to feel
(04:07):
comforted by knowledge and stories.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
This has never come up in our friendship, only when
we started working on the podcast, and obviously multi layer
aspects of who we are come to light. And another
one of the producers on the show also has experienced
this and it was incredibly interesting to hear you two
talk about it the way that you reported how you felt,
(04:33):
what you felt when you felt it, and then also
obviously just the bigness of it that I had. I
had no idea what was happening in your life. So
today we have an expert. Her name is Joey Ramenie
and she is a trained vestibular audiologist and a national
best selling author. She is also the founder and director
(04:54):
of Seeking Balance International. She supports people from all over
the world on how to change their brain body with
the neuroplasticity recovery process. She is from Melbourne and she
is here today with us to discuss all and I'm
so excited to learn more this. I feel like this
is a learning of journey.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
Hi Joey, Hello Joey, Hi, Hi, welcome to the pod.
Call it what it is. We are so excited to
have you. I'm personally so excited to have you on.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I'm delighted to be invited. So sunny Australia, warm vibes.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
So I want to dive in a little bit because
when I was first diagnosed with tonight is what I
was told was that the sound that I was hearing
is not a sound that actually really exists and is
something my brain. This is what I was told, but
I don't know, was just something my brain was making up,
(06:01):
basically imagining.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
There's so many different ways to describe tinatus. It is
it's a sound that is generated inside of our body
that nobody else can hear. And it could be sounds
and mechanically generated like if you think about just even
popping your elbow or your knee, so it could be
inside the ear. There's tiny little bones and muscles, so
(06:24):
that is a type of tinatus, which is like a
mechanical generated sound. But what you're referring to there is
there's other biological events happening. So every single moment of
the day, there's a lot of neurons firing in terms
of our thoughts, our emotions, just making sense of the world,
you know, sensing the wind and the pressure of the
chair or the clothes we're wearing. So all of that
(06:45):
neurological activity also has the potential to create kind of
sound in the brain, in the auditory cortex that we
become aware of. And that's why often when we're experiencing
chronic stress, so we're just really busy, we can hear
this white static in our head and it's like the
brain is like fizzing and buzzing like a disco So
(07:06):
it's real, it's happening. The question of whether we hear
it or not I put down to this filter system,
so the brain is actually looking for okay, is this
useful information? Is a boring not relevant? So if I
hear the washing machine or the fridge whirring, often we
filter that out because we just know it's not making
(07:27):
our life better by noticing those sounds. I often think
about the body sensations as like little messages from our soul.
You know. The body is kind of the sacred filter
as we're living through this cosmic life, and the body
is essentially saying, hey, you might want to pause and
slow down. I've got some things to digest, you know,
(07:48):
I've got some difficult conversations to have, or I've got
this stock take I need to do in life. So
sometimes I think the tinatus can actually be the body's
way of drawing us inwards and asking us to pause
and slow down a little bit for any myriad number
of reasons. But it can also just be a false alarm.
So the sound comes in, we get a shock, and
(08:11):
then someone freaks us out and says, oh my god,
you can't cure it. You're gonna have it forever. And
then that just generates its own little panic cycle, which
means it slips through the filter. We keep noticing it,
and we keep going, oh my god, is it there?
Is it? There?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Is it there?
Speaker 3 (08:23):
And it's kind of just a false alarm cycle that
we have to unwind.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
That's what I when I first had it, I was
definitely looking for it all the time because I was
hoping that it had gone. I was hoping that had gone.
And a doctor told me that it really helped me.
He said, listen at some point, you will hear it
a lot less because it's like when you wear clothes,
a sensation of clothes on your body. You don't feel
(08:48):
it anymore, right, You're not looking for that sensation, and
it will be something that your senses sort of filter out.
So I can hear it right now, but it's much
much quieter, and through my day I can't really I
don't pay attention to it anymore. However, I know for
other people there are different versions of these sounds, right,
So I've heard that sometimes it can sound like a
(09:10):
worshing sound, and my tonights is it sounds like that.
You know when you leave a concert and it's like
that high kind of just you've probably had that feeling
you leave a loud concert and there's like it. It
almost sounds like yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
So, as the person sort of on the outside of
this for a second, I just want to catch myself
up and maybe catch other people listening up. Can we
just take a moment to go to the origin story
of it, because obviously, Camilla, you had a life before
it and then there was a recognition of its presence.
So tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
This was very soon after the pandemic. I had a
young child, and I, you know, we've talked on the
pot about stress and anxiety and all those things. When
I'm hearing you talk and it's about like a sign
at your body, maybe like hey, stop, there's something going on.
I think that I was diagnosed with some hearing loss
(10:07):
right because I had to go have a I talked
about how I had to go have a hearing test
and I have the hearing of like a sixty year old.
So I understand that it could be purely from hearing loss. However,
I do think that it was also triggered by stress
for me. And I heard that more young people were
diagnosed with tonight as after the pandemic. Is that true.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah, there's so many factors at play, but yes, and
also chronic dizziness, which is the other. So these are
both invisible symptoms generated from the inner ear. So that's
kind of my geeky realm. So chronic dizziness, chronic brain fog,
even visual spotting and dotting like from using lots of screens,
from lots of zoom. And yeah, all the stresses of
(10:54):
the pandemic and the lockdowns and homeschooling and just the
compounding layers of life demands. I think it genuinely has
impacted our sensory system and our brain's capacity to juggle everything.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I was told that it is not curable, and that
is what was very maddening to me early on. What
would you say about that?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Well, I can actually feel my blood boiling, like, this
is why I have seeking balance and do what I do,
because it's it's unfair to say that it's not true,
it's inaccurate. As these beautiful biological beings that we are,
we are constantly in dynamic change like no, like we
literally have cells dying and replenishing on three seven ten
(11:39):
day cycles. We are being remade all the time and reborn.
So nothing is static, nothing is forever. And the sounds
that our body makes and the way we interpret them
is such a dance. It is such a maneuverable, beautiful
dance that we participate in. So if I concentrate on
my tenetus all the time, if I worry about it,
(11:59):
if I focus on it, if I pay attention to it,
my brain actually says, Okay, Team Joey's really interested in this.
She's studying it all the time, she's talking about it,
she's thinking about it. So let's give her more neurological
attention to this sound. We'll give her more neurons, We'll
give her more, and then she'll be able to better
study it. So I'm actually participating in the tinatus sound
(12:20):
by directing all of that focus and attention, and I
get that biological dance. It responds to me and gives
me more. I've had tinatus by the way, so I
get it. On the other hand, what I do with
my rock steadic community and people who are using neuroplasticity
and this holistic way of approaching it is that we
(12:40):
understand that, Okay, the body is talking to me, but
it's usually not about the tinatus itself. You can think
about it like the smoke and the fire. So if
your house is on fire and you're just obsessed about
the smoke, you miss the fire. So underneath the tinatus
there's usually a conversation, which could be am I actually
getting enough time to myself? Am I prioritizing everybody else's needs?
(13:02):
And I'm falling way back second? You know, am I
just the cook? Am I the taxi? Am I? Am
I in the right job? Am I in the right marriage?
So sometimes it's about really pausing and saying, am I
actually getting my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual needs met? And
even more importantly, do I know what brings me enjoyment
(13:23):
and pleasure? Am I actually telling my brain, hey, focus
on all those moments I feel grounded? Because if I'm
very much paying attention to my feet, am I pulvis
and dropping into what feels nice and comfortable? I get
more of that neurological activity. So I'm shaping my internal
experience of the day by how I'm in communication with
(13:44):
my body. So this mind body very intimate connection. On
a side note, the mind body is essentially the one
thing there is no disconnect. So yeah, it's about really
participating in how we are shaping and crafting the interior
landscape of our mind body neurology. So building these sensory
(14:05):
maps is exactly what I do for a living. So yes,
it's changeable. I don't actually think tentatus needs a cure.
I think it comes and goes at the perfect time
for us in life. And it's not actually a disease
or a diagnosis per se. I would say it's more
of a healthy biological event that we participate in.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
I have so many questions so when I first could
hear it, I found it so distressing that if somebody
had told me trying not to concentrate on that, it
was all that I felt like a vicious cycle of like,
don't concentrate on that. Now you're hearing it. Now you're
making it worse your approach to it. I know, I'm
sure it's you can't go through it all obviously on
(15:00):
just a podcast. But what are some of the first
things you do to help people with it?
Speaker 3 (15:05):
Yeah? Well, first and foremost, honestly, I think it's important
to freak out and focus on it and actually go
through that rite of passage because in essence, we all
do that, all of us, me too. So just to
really acknowledge and honor that it's okay to focus on it,
worry about it, all of that is a sign that
I care about myself, that it's all coming back to
well being in self care. So different people will spend
(15:29):
shorter or longer amounts of time in that phace. Some
people will literally spend eight years, others are week and
they move through that really quickly and they're like, Okay,
what can I do? So the second bit would be
actually get accurate information you know, don't necessarily believe your doctors.
What they were teaching us in university twenty thirty forty
(15:50):
years ago is different to what we know today. So
there is there are myths.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
What are some of those myths that you could that
you can't cure it? Okay?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Is not necessarily associated with hearing loss. You can have
tinatus and absolutely perfect hearing. You can have terrible hearing
loss and no tinatus. They're independent events.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
If I was if the tenatus is from or tonights
is from hearing loss though, can it still be cured?
Speaker 3 (16:19):
Yes? The tinatus itself is a neurological signal. So your
neurons have got these little fingertips that are sending electro
chemicals along these neural pathways literally through your body and brain.
It's not just the brain, it's not just the years,
it's the entire system. And one of those neural patterns
or neural maps is generating a sound. And what happens
(16:41):
is when we change our relationship to the sound, which
is part of the rock steady process. I walk people
through and it's not straightforward, you know, it's the full package, physical, mental, emotional, spiritual.
It takes time. It takes work, but as we change
our relationship to that neural map, we can essentially make
it louder or make it softer. And we're in the
driver's seat. So right now I can actually tune into
(17:04):
my tenetus and like if I want to hear it,
I can or I cannot. So I begin to actually
be the queen of my kingdom, and I'm choosing how
I shape the internal landscape. So a lot of it's
about getting that accurate information about what is it, how
am I participating in what's going on between my brain
and body, and where do I have choice and where
(17:26):
do I actually have to surrender because there's nothing I
can do, so that the letting go and the surrender
is certainly equally important. We can't control it all.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
I know from reading that some people have it so loud.
I've heard that people it sounds almost like a jet
taking off. Yeah, So for the people that have it
that loud, that extreme all the time, because it's not
how mine has manifested, are you able to help people
(17:58):
that have had it that extra Yes?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
The answer is yes, And part of it is we
need to get back into the body. Right If we
focus heavily on whatever's going on between the ears, we
do end up keeping ourselves in a nervous system state
of flight freeze or fam so we end up in
these trauma looping and from that place it's really hard
to use neuroplasticity to disengage the tinator's signal and build
(18:24):
a new map. So getting into the body and body
scanning is really really primal. We have to get back
into our feet, into our legs, into our pulverse, and
essentially move the attention and focus away from above the shoulders.
So that can be really really nourishing and supportive, especially
if people do have significant traumas, and the tinatus is
like a byproduct of that. So getting back into the
(18:46):
body is really important. So that was what we call
bottom up therapies, sensing and feeling in the body itself.
Top down aspects is when we go okay. So I
have a lived example of this at a really really
busy day, I think it was pre Christmas shopping Da
da da da dada. Came home, just crashed out on
the couch and was like whoa super loud tenatus, like
(19:07):
you know, nine out of ten, and it sounded like
I was hiking in Tasmania in this incredible forest and
I'd found a little tin shed and there was really
really really strong rain, really heavy rain, and I'm in
a tiny shed. The rain is pounding down on this
like corrugated tin iron roof and it's extremely loud. So
(19:29):
the top down process there was rather than freak out,
I lay on the couch and visualized hiking and being
in the sanctuary of this little tin shed while there's
a torrential downpour. So what that means is I had
emotionally associated the sound with a nature hike and a
sanctuary and a pause. And so with that emotional association
with the actual sound, I'm not pushing it away. I'm
(19:52):
not trying to get rid of it. I'm actually welcoming
it in and creating a creative imaginal space where my
body has a place. So it's like it's bringing in
that sense of Okay, this sound belongs here right now,
and before you know it, you're rough daydreaming, you forget
about it, and it just fizzles into the background. So
we have these skills and tools that we can start
to employ and use once we're not really really lodged
(20:17):
in that place between the ears and the midbrain where
we're stuck in the fight flight freeze form trauma patterns.
That's a really really difficult place to be and the
you know, the longer we're there, the more we get.
I think the consequences of consequences through the chronic stress
patterns and cycles, which actually goes beyond just poor digestion
(20:40):
and sort of skin issues and into relationship breakdowns, difficulty
with Korea, like not unable to attend work. You know,
there really are so many debilitating consequences if these chronic
and visible symptoms are not attended to with holistic care.
You know, it's not just about is and people are
(21:01):
not making it up. They are real neural signals that
need real neural support.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
I love this conversation so much because one thing that
really helped me is I was trying to describe the
noise to my husband one time because I was like,
I just wish you could hear it and just experience
this for a second. And in trying to describe it,
I said, you know what it sounds like when it's
really loud, It sounds like there's crickets outside at night. Well,
I actually love that sound in the evening, sitting on
(21:29):
a porch when I, you know, go visit family in Kentucky,
and I love that sound. It's a very soothing sound
to me. And the second I said that, I was like, Oh,
it's actually no I can kind of work with that.
And so sometimes when I'm stressed out and I hear it,
I always I kind of think, how you thought, like, okay,
(21:51):
the rain and the shed, I think to myself, Okay,
I'm on the porch outside it's a crickets at night,
and it changed my relationship a little bit with the
sound itself. I have noticed, and I want to know
your opinion on this. I've noticed certain things that I
feel like can make it worse, But I don't know
(22:12):
if it's just in my head. For example, lack of
sleep the next morning, if I drink too much alcohol
the night before, and if I eat too much salt,
And I don't know if those are things that you
have heard people say before. I'm sure you probably have.
But are there literal things that we're ingesting in our
(22:33):
body sleep? I can see how that relates to the stress,
but are things that we're ingesting in our body that
can make it worse or is that just me feeling
that way imagined.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
You're absolutely noticing things, and everybody is different, like no
true human beings on the planet are wide in the
same way. So it's really important that people are given
this self authority and self permission to go. Actually, this
is how my body is responding to that caffeine or
you know that high process food, or you know this
type of hydration and sleep needs. Like actually learning to
(23:05):
respond to the cues of the body and take ownership over. Okay,
and maybe different to other people, but I am noticing
I need nine hours sleep at night, or I function
so much better if I just get up at six
am every day and that becomes a consistent routine for me.
So yes, what you're noticing is very real and true,
and it will change, you know, as we go through
(23:25):
different phases of life, some of those things won't have
effect anymore. So again, we're dynamic, we are changing, but
learning to be and call and response between my inner
world and what I'm sensing and feeling, which which you know,
I'm a bit of a neural nerd, but everything really
is a neural signal, whether it's an emotion, whether it's
(23:45):
a memory and intuition, a sensation a thought. These are
all neurons bouncing around through the body. That's our inner world,
that's our inner landscapes and inner architecture. And then the
outer world is our conversations, our friends, whether the wind,
the food, alcohol. We're actually learning to dance between the
inner and outer world and become really fluent in that
(24:07):
and to fully participate so that we're a feeling safe
and robust and connected more often, and b we're noticing
when okay, this is actually taking my energy. Okay, this
is my boundaries. You know, we're starting to learn where
do I end and where do you begin? And I
(24:28):
think in the modern day world, we are literally drowning
in data. We're drowning in all of these outer world inputs.
We're losing ourselves and we're merging with other people and
other places and other politics, and it's really really frightening.
And I think to survive, we numb ourselves go grab
you know, more food, or more coffee, or more alcohol,
or go shopping. Like we really move to outer world
(24:50):
distractions to cope, and the body samata sizes and that's
when we get our tenetus in our dizziness and our
brain fog and the chronic fatigue that you know, you
just wake up Monday morning with dread because you've got
to do the whole week again. So this idea of
cleaning out our inner world outer world messiness and having
those stronger boundaries that brings us into sovereignty, that brings
(25:11):
us into self authority, self permission. So yeah, the short
answer is yes, what you're noticing is real, and just
because it's real for you doesn't mean it's real for
the next person. So again, really honoring uniqueness, individuality, and
I think having sas you know, having a little bit
of that badass, unapologetic this is my body, this is
my life.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Oh she's got that.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
Yeah, he's got that.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
So I'm listening to you, and first of all, I'm
it's like intoxicating. I'm like, I'm watching you and I'm
listening to you dark and I'm like yes and yes
and yes.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
Well this is reminding me of when you had your
eye twitch and you were talking. Yeah, this is what
this is reminding me about. I think you have to
repeat the story so that Joy can hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
Well, I mean I again, Kimila and I a joke
or do we that we like to bring it back
to how we've expect something. And since I'm on the
outside of this little diad, I got an eye twitch.
And it was during a time where I think that
my body was saying.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Hold the fuck up, Yeah, you need.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
To calm down, you need to chill out, you need well, actually, honestly,
more than anything, I think, it was like I need
your attention. You're not paying attention to me, and I wasn't.
I was like, just keep swamming, just keep swamming. I've
got this, We've got this, and to keep going. And
I would stand there talking to someone while I was
(26:33):
trying to get something done, and I would be holding my.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
Eyelid and because it lasted a year for her, it
lasted a year.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
And people would be like, why are you holding your
eye lid? And they're like, well, I just it's not
you can't see it, but I can. So is that something?
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I mean?
Speaker 1 (26:50):
My guess is that all those neuropathways are obviously looking
to different. We have a news that that's another form
of it.
Speaker 3 (26:58):
Yes, And like this trim twitching, jerking, they're actually like
little ways the neural system is expelling and discharging a
pent up neurological energy. So it's like, so the next
book I'm writing is actually talking about how we digest
and metabolize and excreet all the invisible data that we're
(27:20):
taking in. So as we go about our day, we're
taking in like politics, judgments, assumptions, cultural nuance, thoughts. You know,
even if like someone was to give you the evil
eye and give you a bit of a smirk so
that no words passed, but there is a message they're
coming like in all of this human relating, and we
have to take that in and digest it. And so
(27:41):
the body's literally riddled with all of these neurological traffic
jams and undigested life experience where we haven't been able
to biochemically complete what we've just experienced in the day.
This is when people come to me because they're smaticizing,
and I help them learn to integrate and excrete. So
it's not actually all about tinatus and dizziness. It's the
(28:01):
whole human experience.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
So only because I'm trying to also be a person
who I mean, who doesn't semat size? Will you please define?
Speaker 3 (28:10):
That's the word we use when the symptomatology is coming up.
So the soma, the sematics the body. So the physical
body is beginning to say okay, shoulders tenching or eyelids twitching,
and this is the body doing what it's yeah to
complete its biochemical processes.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
So in my experience, my body has told me things
that my mind hasn't. So for me, a sematic response
would be I've talked about this before. When I'm in
a difficult conversation, when I'm nervous, when I'm just feeling
challenged on some level, I can instantly feel my body
(29:03):
temperature rise and I get armpit sweat super cute. I know,
I know, it's charming. It's a really lovely part of me.
You can all just imagine me with my armpit sweat
rings right now. But I instantly start sweating. And it's
how I know, because sometimes my mind is like, again,
(29:25):
just keep swimming, you've got this. I'm an opt I
skew optimistic. I've dealt with a lot in my life.
I've kept going. I know I can, or at least
I believe I can. I think and there and therefore
I am. But my body, it's it's it's it's actually
a weird. Obviously, it's like an inverse of some people's challenge.
(29:46):
Some people are like, I can't do it. I can't
do it. I can't do it. I'm like, I can
do it, and then my body is like nope, nope,
something's wrong.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
It's just white knuckle to it. Make it happen. The
body's giving us that feedback loop, the Bayo feedback loop.
And you know, I just think you can't do life wrong.
It's not even about you know, I don't know, tuning
in and living perfectly. It's like when your body's really
going to talk to you, the pain gets higher. Like
pain is the body's most efficient form of communications. So
(30:16):
we do what we can until we reach that threshold
where we're like whoa, whoa, this is too much. And
that's usually when people come to me. But yeah, this
trip tremoring, jerking, twitching, that can actually be the body's
way of, in a healthy context, releasing neural excess energy
that doesn't need to live in the body. And that's
why actually shaking it out and dancing and physical activity
(30:39):
is so important for our health to complete some of
those biochemical processes.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
And it's funny because we were talking about, you know,
not that a tremor is painful but that there are
these ways that our body experiences pain or discomfort and
it's actually got purpose. It's a signal. Yeah, it's letting
you know exactly.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
I would say every single thought, sensation, story, intuition, image,
all of it. I think all of it has its place.
And I really encourage people and teach people to pause
as often as they can, body scan and actually take
notice of what's going on in my body and multiple
(31:18):
times a day. And I call that collecting the warm data,
Like inside your body is the warm data that is
giving you that feedback. It's like the dashboard of your car.
It's always available to you. And then the cold data
is from outside of us. That's the outside looking in.
That's your test results, your blood tests, your MRI scans,
that's all the cold data. The warm data is that
(31:38):
intuitive data that's in the body, and we sense it
and feel it, and we get better and better and
better at that with practice and support, and in the
beginning we're just like, oh my god, it's just overwhelming.
I can't make sense of anything inside of me. But
it does honestly become much more fluid and fluid.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
One of the things I was told right at the
very beginning was to have white noise on in every
room so I could start to sort of tune it out.
Is that something that you would recommend for people listening?
What I'm just thinking, because why I'm asking is it
would be easier, much easier for me now to go
(32:19):
through a program that helps me. In the beginning, it
was so distressing. My anxiety about it was so bad
that it felt disoriented in you know, like I didn't
It's just I couldn't even hear my children. Even though
I could they were talking and I could hear them,
I couldn't that that's the only thing I could hear.
What is something initially you would recommend to help someone
(32:43):
sort of sender themselves that you've seen work.
Speaker 3 (32:46):
Oh one hundred percent. Well, the body scan for sure,
if they're capable of that. Getting out in nature also
really really supportive and useful in so many levels, but
out and about around the house. I mean, any kind
of noise. If you want to use white noise, pink noise, whatever,
go for it. But I wouldn't use it to drown
out the sinatus because what that's doing is teaching the brain. Hey, brain,
(33:06):
we have a problem, focus on it. Get rid of it.
I talk about this in my book rock Steady. The
more we focus on the tinatus as a problem, the
more we neurologically exacerbate it, which keeps the perpetuated symptom loop.
So what I say to people is there's nothing wrong
with using noise, but just think about what's my motivation
if I put on my favorite playlist, like listening to
(33:26):
your podcast or you know, all this fun music to
match my mood. You know, maybe I'm sad and I
want to listen to blues music or Willie Nelson. Maybe
I want to dance, so I put on some Latin
music when I'm choosing the music, which is still going
to drown out the tinatus. But when I'm choosing the
playlist to get me in an emotional state that's coming
from a place of desire, pleasure, moving, you know music
(33:50):
took to cook to. Yeah, I'm actually achieving the same
purpose of shifting the neural activity away from the tintus.
But it's not coming from getting rid of it. It's
coming from moving toward the desire to feel my body
dance and move, to be emotionally connected. So I think
a lot of modern day therapies and tinatus retraining techniques,
(34:11):
they kind of miss the juicy importance of bringing the
emotional body along because we can't just look at the
physical it's if you look at the whole person. Actually,
you can't just look at the thoughts or just look
at the emotions, or just look at the sound. We
have to look at the whole person and say, Okay,
how can we best participate in these neural maps. And
(34:33):
it's going to be everything from body position to the
mindset and the thoughts to meaningfully addressing and meeting the
fears that are alive in that moment. We have to
digest and process the fears or the fears takeover. And
then the missing piece, which I really talk about at
length in my rock Steady book, is what do I
desire to feel? Because they're the neural pathways I need
(34:54):
to start focusing on. And if I want to feel connected, juicy, playful, free,
maybe I have a playlist that takes me on that
journey and I can groove to the music and then
I'm really firing the neurons and actually has nothing to
do with the tinatus. So again that's the smoke, not
the fire.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
I love that analogy.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I think even the knowledge that something can be done
about it, because when you have it and you go
to a doctor and and you say this is so distressing,
it feels very isolating. Initially, and I felt very lonely
because I felt like I'm the only one that can
hear this, Nobody else can it. Just I felt very alone.
(35:35):
I think just the knowl if someone had just said
to me, Hey, there's actually a way to cure this
is what you're saying to write, I think I would
have felt gotten over hearing it so loudly a lot quicker.
I think the hopelessness comes from people saying there's nothing
(35:55):
to be done, and so that's why I feel like
this is so exciting, and I hope anyone listening, because
the more I said, oh I have this, I was
shocked at how many people around me were like, oh yeah,
I had that too.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It's one in three people, it's a lot. Not everybody
has it to psychologically distressing levels, but some people are
debilitated and suicidal. And there are so many people who
literally their lives are saved when they enter the rock
steady process because they get their life back.
Speaker 2 (36:25):
It's that duck I found that distressing too. I found
it very triggering to know that some people had ended
their own lives over it, because I thought, God, what
if it gets that bad one day? Because I understood
that mine wasn't the worst that it could be. I've
heard the sort of noises that other people hear sounds
other people here, and it was unimaginable to me.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
There's quite a few people that have written in, so
I would love to read some of their questions. If
that works for everyone, Yeah, I would love to.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
And can I just add here if you are listening
and you're really in that difficult alone place. On my website,
there are heaps of case studies of people who have
gone through it, and they've gone through the dark soul
of the night. They're on the other side, and I
think there's a lot of companionship gauging with real life
stories where you're getting it. We want to recondition ourselves
(37:33):
to believe in the body and to really participate in
the process and not feel like we're just passive victims
and lives being thrown upon us. So, yeah, the case
studies are powerful, and my book also, rock Steady, has
a lot of mythbusting and useful supportive tricks and ideas
and home practices that you can try straight away.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
And also we will put make sure this is in
all of our online for everybody. But can you just
say what your website is.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
It's seeking balance dot com dot au.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
Okay, Anne wrote it, and she said, any quick and
easy solutions for dizziness because I get dizzy very often.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
My heart is with you, an I'm I'm gonna say
the body scan. It's all about reorienting ourselves to understand, Okay,
my shoulders are above my hips, I can feel both
feet on the ground. Like we want to really build
our neurological structures in the proprioceptive system, which is thirty
percent of our balance function. So you have your ears,
your eyes, and your proprioceptive system, which is a fancy
(38:34):
word for how we orient ourselves, how we locate ourselves
and the sensation of touch. So when we're swaying side
to side, our propriaceptive system is going okay, lifts and right,
and we hone that we absolutely refine that function through practice,
and my book Crop Steady has a lot of really
simple practices that will help you with that.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Okay, yes, because I know that verdigo is part of this.
And I wrote in and they said that there is
constant itchy and cracking noises in the ear for months
a cause of concern. My current doctor has been very
dismissive and very agitated. Is that something that tonight's orus
can sound like? Can it sound like that?
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Yes? Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Am I itching too?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Itching?
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Not so much?
Speaker 3 (39:23):
It's got no, it's just it's going a bit laterally.
But honestly, you can get dermatitis and like exma in
your ears. Oh and so you can medically soothe that,
or you know, olive oil is very safe to try
in the ears. Just a drop of olive oil and
just allow that to have a little bit of a
lubrication and moisturizing effect. But honestly, psoriasis treatments, all of
(39:46):
those things are still relevant. And and you know, try
a different doctor if you're feeling dismissed.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Always yes, advocating for yourself. So Kiki wrote in and said,
for several years, if I sleep my any side besides
my left, I get vertigo. Any suggestions on how to
fix this?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Well? BEPPV Benign paroxysmal positional vertigo is the technical term
for the most common form of vertigo. I've actually had
it twice. One in four people get it, so very
common and you can treat it. I talk about it
in my book. You can google it, and there's basically
little calcium carbonate odiconia molecules. They call them crystals, and
(40:29):
they live in the ears. They're healthy, but they can
fall out of their little bedroom and start rolling around
the ear. So if it's the right side that's getting dizzy,
it might be the right ear that's affected. So what
we do is we test and treat which ear where
the crystals are, and then we literally just roll them back.
It's like less than two minutes the treatment, and once
you're treated, you're treated full life.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
That's incredible, So it can come and go.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Like I said, I've had it twice, but you can
test and treat it literally on the spot. And in
my rock Steady program, I have a whole video tutorial
where people do that themselves. Because it's so debilitating, you
can be like, I never ever want to go traveling
ever again because I need to have my physiotherapist around
the corner nearby in case the crystals come out. So
it's really debilitating. But once you have this education that Okay,
(41:14):
I can test and treat myself. I can literally do
that in my hotel in Thailand. So really important to
get that kind of basic stuff covered because you don't
have to live with it, and many people do.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
My friend also has has been diagnosed with to notice
he wants to know if your treatment because this is
what I would keep reading when I would google. It
is part of it to do with listing to different frequencies,
because I've heard that that's something that people sometimes they
treat tonight us with that, although it doesn't necessarily sound
(41:49):
like it's a curing it.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
Yeah, look, I think we're really trained to look outside
of ourselves for answers to distract, to numb, to ignore,
to medicate, And I think some of these fancy devices
I don't recommend them, but I also don't not recommend them.
So it's like, you know yourself, if you love gadgets
and devices that lights you up, it makes you excited,
go for it in all that frequency matching.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Because you're getting that feeling internally, and that's really maybe
what that is.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
Yeah, it's an emotional yearning for like, ah, you know,
I really want that inspector gadget watch and you know,
this makes me feel like I'm an avatar. So it's
like different strokes for different folks. But me, I would
go music. I would go the full spectrum of frequencies.
I would let myself be really flooded with music that
I love, rather than trying to isolate a frequency and
(42:37):
really overly obsess about something very linear. I always go
the nonlinear. I always go the complex. Human beings are complex,
and I think we need to meet complexity with complexity,
not try and make tenesis into some linear simple You know,
I have a splinter. Get the Tweezers pulled the splinter out.
This is not what we're talking about. It's going on LINEA.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
I love what you've said repeatedly, which is the body scan,
because I do think. I mean, there's a whole book
about the body knows the score. Your body doesn't forget
all the things that's been through. It actually doesn't. Your
mind actually has a different and more sophisticated coping system,
but your body actually is a little more raw and
remembers it all. This has been so incredible.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
Thank you so much, incredibly.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Informative for me. I mean, sitting on the outside I
could watch you guys and hear and listen to you.
But thank you so much for spend Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Yes, and I actually did not know that statistic of
one in three, So I'm sure so many people listening
will relate to this and be given hope. I really
you're the first, literally the first person I've heard that
could ever be like, wow, this is something that could
fix I love this. You still have it right I
can hear right now because we're talking about it.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
I smell a part too between you two.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I will happily have you on in listeners. If you
have more specific questions about this, please hit us in
the comments, hit us in our DMS.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
I really deliberately have a neurodiversity and complexity affirming community
because we're all so different, and so many of my
participants have not been believed. It's yes, it's heart wrenching
and neurodivergences and all of these things matter, like we
have to figure out what brain am I born with?
What body am I born with? How are they communicating?
And how can I fully participate? So I'm actually happy.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Thank you so much for being joy.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
We will have you back on pleasure. Yes, thank you
so much. This was so incredible. Thank you. Okay, bye bye.
Speaker 3 (44:40):
Bye, have a great day you too.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
I love that she joined us all the way from Australia.
I want to end this podcast just by saying that
Jess and I started this podcast to build community for
people not to feel so alone. When I first had this,
I felt so alon, I felt crazy, I felt like
it was maddening. And I know this is a very
(45:06):
specific topic that we are tackling today, but maybe you
even know someone in your life that has it and
you don't have it. Please please give this podcast to them.
It has meant so much to me just listening to this.
It really felt hopeless for a long time. And this
is very exciting, very exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
Yes, And obviously, I mean, you know when people when
we bring on the professionals, and we bring on the doctors,
and we bring on to the people who study these
things with their whole beings every single day, they have
a different set of vocabulary and there are always I
always love when I'm in a conversation when I hear
a new word.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Because I'm like, write it down, look.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
It up, you know. So you know, she's clearly given
us so many things to think about, and so many
different words and ways of seeing things. And I'm so
excited to take my notes from today's podcast and double
click and look some words up and make sure that
I understand all that she was talking about. And I
(46:09):
have heard about body scans. It is definitely it's not
an actual scan, by the way. You don't go get
it in a doctor's office. And I don't want to
speak to it specifically because I don't know that I
will describe it as it should be described. But it
is definitely not a doctor's office visit. It is a
body scan that you do with yourself, and I'm going
to now go look it up so I re equate
(46:30):
myself with it. But it is something that I think
everyone should look into if you're interested in this topic,
and also please let us know what was interesting about
this and what you would like to know more about
if there's other subjects.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
Because she's talking also about brain fog, and I know
that a lot of people, a lot of people right now,
I feel like they're suffering from that.
Speaker 1 (46:50):
So, oh my gosh, as it pertains to long COVID,
as it pertains to perimenopause, menopause, we're going to talk
about that, by the way. Yeah, there's going to be
so many things that we're going to talk about, and
often we're going to talk about the chit chat and
the being together and all that, and then sometimes we're
gonna pull in these moments and I would love to
hear from you all and the crew, you know, how
you respond to it, if it's interesting, if it's like
(47:11):
what what would be what would be a topic that
you'd like to go do a deep dive into. And
because it's we're so lucky we have, you know, incredible
people that are really ready to come on and talk
to us.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Yeah, and if we don't know what it is, we
will find someone that does. We're all about those experts.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
Let's go, let's go, let go.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
I think that we we're gonna call it the end
of the episode, but I think that we I'm gonna
call it community because I think sharing all of this
kind of shit that feels lonely sometimes is gonna be
key to helping us all be so much happier. So
quite simply just happier at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (47:50):
Yes, yes, and I will I will add to it.
I would also call it you are not.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
Alone yeah, absolutely all right guys, thanks for joining us
and hit us up in the comments.
Speaker 1 (48:04):
Thank you so much to Joey, Thank you Joey.
Speaker 2 (48:06):
Bye.
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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