February 17, 2025 • 56 mins
Jess is fangirling out in the biggest way because Mel Robbins is in the house!
Camilla asks Mel to break down her "Let Them" theory as Jess works through her recovering phase as a people pleaser.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, hello, hello, Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to another
episode of Call It What It Is.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We have a very special guest today. Do you notice
anything different about me as we prepared for this episode?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I did.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I have never noticed you sweating over guests before, and
you're a little sweaty today.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Glistening you mean a little bit disgusting.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Glistening in my armpits as opposed to my face.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
For everyone listening, you have been talking about this theory
and this person on this podcast for a long time.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Now I have, I have. We're talking about the one
and only mel mel Robins.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So Oprah put a huge spotlight on you right around
the holidays, is what I remember. And she started talking
about your new book, They'll let them theory.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I immediately went.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
To order your book, buy your book, Where can I
get this book? And it was not available, It wasn't
out yet, and I went sneaky, sneaking to my friends
who've my friends in high places who have connections, and
I somehow got a digital copy like the galley is
that what they call it in the business, the galley,
and I got a pre I got a galley, I
(01:37):
got a little sneak peek and I started reading it
and I was so excited. And then as I'm reading it,
I'm getting all the wisdom. And then because I also
pre ordered it on Amazon and I get my real copy.
But don't think that I stopped there. I also got
it on my audible. So I am like, it's like
(01:57):
a three way frontal attack of mel Robbins and the
let Them theory. Anyways, I couldn't do it alone. I
reached out to my mom and I was like, Mom,
we know me. I'm a recovering people pleaser. I'm the
oldest daughter in this family. I think that this theory
was made for me.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Not only me. It's just a personal book for you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, but why don't you mom read this with me?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Well, no, wonder you love the book because I wrote
it with my oldest daughter. There's like first daughter energy
in the book.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So yes, yeah, what I thought a lot was what
a gift it was for me. But then what I
also thought was what a gift if I got this
when I was twenty And I think it also because
again I got the pre kid, I got all the copies,
and of course I sent one straight to my mom.
I was like, Mom, let's do let we're read this together,
(02:50):
and so we're reading them in tandem. And something about
reading your words allowed for our journey to have no stickiness.
It wasn't like either one of us was. It wasn't
like I was saying, like, you're so controlling, Yeah, chapter
fat did you read that part?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, And she wasn't saying it back to me.
It was just free here you were saying that, yeah,
And she could see herself and self report or take
that inventory, and I could see myself and so it
created a conversation. And so I think the multi generational
quality of it as well is just like.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
A little bit of a boom.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Well, thank you for saying that. There's so much I
want to unpack about what you just said. But in
case you're listening or watching this and you don't know
what the let them theory is, it's simply the act
of in a moment where you feel worried or stressed
out or frustrated or pissed off, you just say let them.
Whether it's about the traffic, or your mother's mood, or
it's the fact that somebody that you're interested in doesn't
(03:49):
want to be let them. And then the second part,
after you've said let them, and you started detach from
trying to control something that's already going on as you
say let me.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And when you say let me.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
What you're doing is you're reminding yourself in any situation,
whether it's a situation of heartbreak, or it's a situation
where you're overwhelmed, or a situation where you get fired
from a job, or you get a situation where you
don't get invited somewhere, a situation where your mom is
really disappointed in some way.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That you're living your life and the guilt is flooding in.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
When you say let me, you remind yourself that there's
only three things in life you can control. It's not
your mother's mood. It's not what your boss is doing.
It's not traffic. It's not whether or not somebody chooses
to love you back. It's not whether or not your
friends invite you. The only thing you can control is
what do I think about this? What am I going
to do or not do? And what am I going
(04:43):
to do in response? To the feelings that I feel. So,
if guilt is rising up because your mom's disappointed, am
I going to bend over backwards to try to make
her not disappointed? Or am I going to act like
a grown ass woman and let my mom be disappointed
because she is a grown up and she's allowed to
feel disappointed, She's allowed to have her experience.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And one of the reason, one of the ways I
can love her is to actually let her feel what.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
She feels without the need to fix it. And if,
like you and like me, you have.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Spent your life navigating people's moods or happiness or opinions
or expectations, it's exhausting and it doesn't work, And so
it does.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yes, I felt myself squarely in that spot. Ye. And
I remember hearing someone say you can't set yourself on
fire to keep everybody else warm, and it was like.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Right, that's true, but that's intellectual. So when somebody says
you got to take off you got to put on
your face back first, I'm.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Like, Okay, well, what the hell does that mean?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yes, and what is you can't light yourself on fire
to keep people warm? How do I apply that when
my life is on fire.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That's what I love about this book. Yes it's how,
Yes it's how.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And there's some things to think about, which is, you'll
never take control of your own life until you stop
trying to control everything and everyone around you. If you're exhausted,
if you're tired, if you're not as happy as you'd
like to be, if you don't have what you want
in your life, the problem isn't you. The problem is
(06:19):
the power you're giving to everybody else. Like you've wasted
so much of your precious time and energy trying to
please everyone else and meet their expectations and make sure
they think a certain thing, and they're not doing this,
and they're doing that, that you've exhausted yourself. And what
saying let them and let me taught me is that
there's a totally different way to go about your life.
And the shocking thing is that when you just let
(06:41):
people think negative thoughts, or let them have uncomfortable emotions,
or let them not understand, or let them not invite you,
or let them not want to be with you, you
recognize that you're actually capable of facing anything because the
power's not out there in managing other people. The power
is in hear in how you respond to it, and
(07:02):
we've forgotten that we have handed our power over to
other people's moods, opinions, to these crazy headlines, and in
doing so, we have forgotten that you have so much
power if you take it back, and you're never going
to feel powerful if all you're doing is just worrying
about everybody else and managing everybody else and trying it
(07:22):
and being pissed off about everybody else and stressed out
by the long lines and the traffic and what people
are doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We're like, no, let them.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But that's what's so interesting about that, because we can
describe the experience when we're pissed off, when we're annoyed,
when we're all the things.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
We're being human, Yes, right, we're just we're actually doing
what our brains were designed to do.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yes, what I have found your description of what to
do and the three things that I can control? Yeah,
and not react to respond to, which was a big
thing that I learned. Also, didn't know the difference between
reaction and response.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I didn't figure this out to my fifties ahead of me.
But that's all human.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, what you outline and these three steps makes me feel,
make me feel like you were giving me some kind
of permission to almost be superhuman, to get above my
human experience.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yes, not your your your your emotional experience.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yes, and get into that that that wise adult.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, like so.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I the reason why this is taken off is because
it doesn't exist in a vacuum. I have made ancient
wisdom a modern tool. This is stoicism, Buddhism, radical acceptance,
detachment theory, all of which are philosophical, intellectual concepts or
therapeutic modalities, all of which are very hard to access
(08:46):
if you're stressed out, pissed off, overwhelmed, or heartbroken. Because
when you're stressed out by life and you're overwhelmed, which
everybody is right now, you're in a state of fight
or flight. And so you're not going to remember the
serenity pro you're not going to remember the tenets of Buddhism.
You're not going to remember how to be stoic. When
you literally are so worried about paying your bills, how
(09:09):
the hell are you going to access something intellectual? And
so what I love about this and why it's taken
off is because a it is part of a legacy
of wisdom that has been around since the history of time,
and it is arriving as a gift to the world
at a moment where things feel absolutely out of control
(09:33):
for most people. And even if you're not worried about
the world at large, there's somebody in your family you're
worried about. You're worried about AI taking over jobs. You're
worried about the economy. You're worried about like a kid
that you have and how they're doing. You're worried about
a girlfriend who's dating some loser. There is some aspect
in your life you're worried about the sense that you're
not quite sure you're happy in the relationship or what
you want to do in the next chapter of your life,
(09:54):
and so you feel overwhelmed and stressed out. And when
you feel or at least me in those moments where
I feel like stressed out or pissed off or frustrated,
I feel out of control, and then I start to
try to control everybody else, and I miss where the
power is, and the power is in just saying let them,
(10:17):
because when you say let them, you're actually recognizing every
time you say let them, you're actually recognizing I can't
control this, Therefore it's not worth my time and energy.
And every time you say this isn't worth my time
and energy, let them, let that adult be mad and
not misunderstanding. Let those women gossip about me, Let these
people unfollow me online, let them let them, let them,
(10:39):
let them. When you say that, you recognize that your
time and energy has worth because you're protecting it, which
is so cool.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I mean, the reason why you're exhausted is because you're
giving your power away, and you can't have power until
you stop giving it away. And most of us are like, wait,
I have power? How could I have power if I'm
burnt out and stressed out and worried about everything and
I feel like I've made too many mistakes in life. Oh,
you have power, all right, you just forgot. And that's
the other thing as to why this is taking off.
(11:13):
I'm reminding you of something you know to be true.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But I think also handed hand, you're believing there's a
lot of empowerment. The way that you are on social media,
and then the way I hear you in the in
the on the audible, and then how I hear your
way you are empowered. I mean there's a sense that
you believe in me and you and I don't know you.
Of course I do, and I believe that you believe
(11:39):
in everyone.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
True.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I believe every single human being, yeah, has the ability
to make their life better. I believe every single human
being has possibility and potential for their life that they
are not in touch with. I a thousand percent believe
that because I have been in the dirt, in the hole,
I have reinvented myself so many fucking times, and I
(12:03):
understand that the only thing that's standing in between you
and what you deserve and desire in life is you.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I'm not kidding about this.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, like the two biggest things that are in everybody's
way because these are the things that were in my way.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm just going to boil it down. Number one, you
are obsessed.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
With what people think about you, and you actually believe
that there's something you can do that could guarantee that
somebody is going to think something you cannot, and so
you're putting so much power in managing people's opinions, expectations,
all that stuff that becomes a huge obstacle because if
you think about what other people are going to do
(12:43):
in response to what you want to do with your life,
you will always hold yourself back. Like if you're constantly
what are my parents going to think about that? I
guess I better not move. Oh what is my boyfriend?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
What is this?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
What you'll you'll.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Prioritize somebody else's happiness and expectations over your own desire
to do things in your life. And they didn't do
that to you, You did it to yourself. So when
you learn to say, let them be disappointed, let them
not understand, let them like actually not approve.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
There was a guy that wrote to.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Us yesterday because I am obsessed with reading people's comments
because I love knowing what is actually resonating and how
it's impacting people. And so there was a comment that
came in yesterday that somebody posted online publicly where a
guy was saying that he had read the let them
(13:36):
Theory book and he was so grateful because he's engaged
to Mary, his husband or his fiance, I guess at
the time, and his father is very Irish Catholic and disapproves,
and the wedding's coming up, and the dad had sent
his son and his son's fiance a letter that was
(13:58):
really awful and disapproving and calling into question whether or
not God, you know, is gonna whatever. And what this
guy basically said is before the let them theory, I
would have come unhinged.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I would have cut him out of my life.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I would have absolutely, like just been destroyed by it.
And he said, here's what I did. I said, let him,
let him have his opinion, let him have his experience,
let him write something that actually does hurt me, let
him not understand. My father, based on his life experience,
(14:34):
is allowed to believe what he believes. But I don't
have to let that change who I am or how
I'm living my life. And so when I say let him,
I now create space for two things that are true.
(14:54):
My father's opinion is bigoted and it makes me feel sad,
but I can also still want to figure out how
to have space to have a relationship with him. And
in saying let him and literally releasing from the emotion
(15:15):
and just being like, that's what he believes, I'm going
to let him have his belief, and I'm not going
to make it my job to actually try to change
his belief. What I'm going to do is I'm going
to let me remind myself that I get to choose
what I think about myself. I get to choose what
I do and don't do, and I get to choose
how I'm going to respond.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And I'm not going to.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Respond by allowing this hate to make me hateful. Yeah,
and so a couple days later, he wrote his father
back and basically was like, I you know understand that
you feel this way. We see things very differently. I'm
really good with my relationship with God. I hope that
you will be able to come. And that was it,
(15:54):
and he's like, I'm free because the secret in life
is when you focus on or values and who you
are as a person and the things that you really
want to do in your life, and that's where you
put your energy, and you know you have good intention
and you know where your heart is. It's so fascinating
how quickly you actually don't really think much about other
(16:17):
people at all because you know the truth.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And I've spent my life looking.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
For the truth about me and other people's opinions. I've
spent my whole life looking for the truth about me
in other people's opinions.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Out I know, I.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Know, Okay, So they let them part of it. So,
and I like this story as an example to it
because I'm wondering what the emotional component of it of. Okay,
so somebody hurts you, like the dad, right, yep. Because initially,
when I was hearing about the theory, it almost I
almost wondered if there was a part of it that
(16:56):
was like, are you by saying let them, are you
detaching emotion from that person? Are you almost numbing yourself
to the to whatever this is?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
So?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
How is it that both things are true? In that
you're you can't change that person, so you're getting that
power back, but also you can still be hurt by
that person.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You're turning yourself into a zombie. Okay, yeah, you're basically
in that situation. It is a mentally healthy response to
be hurt by somebody who says something hurtful.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Okay, yes, that's a sign that you're working.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Your body works well, right when you're hurt by something
that somebody says is hurtful. What we end up doing, though,
is we take those emotional experiences and then we try
to change the other person so the hurt goes away. Right,
You make the hurt go away by actually focusing on
your response to what just happened, not by trying to
change that person. Yes, and here's the other reason why.
(17:53):
There is one thing in life you can't change. It's
other people. You will never be able to change what
another person thinks, believes, does, says, or feels period. And
any time you try to change somebody's opinion by arguing
with them, or you get judgy, or you have suggestions
and they're not looking for any or you think you
know better, you're not organizing motivation. You're actually creating resistance
(18:14):
to the thing that you want.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
They smell your agenda.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So of course, people only change when they're ready to change.
And what's interesting about this example that I gave you
is that in this example, by saying let him, my
father's allowed to have his opinions. I disagree with them,
but he's allowed to have them. I get to choose
how I'm going to react and whether or not I
(18:37):
give more power to it, which you do when you
get angry. And I also get to choose if I'm
going to keep a space open. And what happens when
you allow people to have their feelings and have their
opinions and you create the space, and then you focus
on showing up in your life in the way.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
That you want to live it.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Funny thing happens over time with that's people start to
change their mind, not because you jammed it down their throat,
but because they have to reconcile the fact that their
opinion actually makes no sense based on how you live
your life. And there are bazillion examples of this. So,
for example, if you've ever quit a corporate job and
gone off and done your own thing and everybody in
(19:18):
your family doesn't get it, let them not get it,
let them be worried, let them think you're an idiot,
let them not understand this internet thing like whatever it
is that they're saying. Because a funny thing happens the
more you focus on building the new business or becoming
an influencer or writing the book and you're actually doing it.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Have you ever noticed your parents, like I always told
you shad Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
The space actually gives them this safety to come to
their own conclusion. You're actually loving them and respecting them
and giving them permission to be flawed or have d
up opinions or whatever else, and understanding that people do
change when they actually are ready to change. And through
(19:58):
your example and the influence that yeah, yeah, and so
I feel like, and there's another thing, because your question
was excellent, because one of the other things where I
thought you were going to go with it is when
you say let them. Let's like talk about a relationship,
because we all have that. We all have somebody in
our life who's in a relationship with somebody who is
treating them poorly. Like you see it, You're like, he
(20:22):
won't put a label on this, right, that means he's
having sex with other people. You know, That's what I
won't label. This means I want to be having sex
with other people. Yes, And you're up in your head
like I think, well, I think we're going to get
married in Lake Clomo, And you're like, I think you're
high and so but here's the thing. If you start
(20:43):
to question your friend, what happens is you push her
into the relationship.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I've had this, yep.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
And so they double down.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yes, as a double down there say let them.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And you're in a situation where a boss or a
parent or somebody you're dating is treating you poorly. People
are like, well, isn't saying let them mean you're just
letting them abuse you? I'm like, no, you're already allowing
that they're already abusing you. You're just explaining it away
in your head and making excuses for why, like this
is somehow acceptable and attractive to you. And I'm not
(21:21):
blaming the victim here, because there are serious situations. I
used to be a crisis intervention counselor on a domestic
violence hotline. The average person in an abusive relationship it's seven.
It's the seventh time that the leave actually sticks because
of the psychological torture of being in a relationship like that.
(21:43):
That said, one of the things that keeps you in
a dysfunctional dynamic with somebody is the hope that it's changing.
And so when you say let them, you are actually
forcing yourself to see someone's behavior as the truth, how
they treat you and feel about you. And the problem
that most of us get into is that we live
(22:05):
in a fantasy in our head instead of facing the
reality of what's actually happening. And if you find that
you're like, why am I always with people that won't commit,
it's because you're confusing yourself. If they only text you
and don't want to see you in real life, it
means they're not interested in you.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They're bored.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
If you know, like people are like I always have
people that sring me along. Nobody can string you along.
You actually tie yourself up in nuts. Yeah, because you're
unwilling to let their behavior speak the truth that they're
not interested in you.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
They're not listening.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yes, yeah, So that's why this is so critical when
it comes to relationships, because we make excuses for things
that we shouldn't be making excuses for.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Is this one that piece of being sort of settled
in familiar pain rather than seeking an unfamiliar pain comes in.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So there is some really interesting research about this was
like a fascinating and such a simple explanation. It comes
from doctor K who goes as the Healthy gamer online
and he's a Harvard trans psychiatrist who studies gaming addiction,
and he's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He had this way of explaining the brain and.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Motivation that completely demystified for me why it's so hard
to actually change. And he basically was like, look, the
problem with all of us is we don't understand our
own wiring the human brain.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Here's what you need to understand.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
You are actually wired to move towards what's easy right now,
That's why we sit on the couch instead of running.
It's why we think about building an online business instead
of doing it. It's why we think about paying our
bills instead of like and then we spend money. We
move towards what's easy now because your brain is actually
wired to do it. Your brain is also wired to
(23:54):
move and push against what feels hard. So in order
to change, you have to defy your own circuitry. You
have to either say, I know this thing is hard,
but I've got a reason that's important enough that I'm
willing to do the hard work to lose the weight,
(24:16):
to cut out sugar, to get up on time, to
get a different job. Now here's where this gets interesting,
because we are hardwired to move towards what's easy. People
actually typically only change if the situation that they're in
is harder than the thing that they're avoiding. So, like,
(24:38):
you know, anybody that has ever gotten sober will tell
you get to a point where it's harder to actually
drink right than facing the stuff that you want to face.
And so what happens in our relationships is, you know,
we want to change everybody else and so you know,
you see your spouse or Sarah, your partner, and they're
sitting on the couch munching some chips, watching the game,
(24:58):
and you're like.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Why are they not going? Why am I not doing that?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And then you make the suggestion and you didn't motivate
them by going it's a great day for a walk.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
What happened is they're like, no, your walk.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And if I would be going on a walk exactly,
I know that I could be going on a walk
right now. And so you now become the thing that's
actually feeling hard. So now they're like pushing away from you.
It's natural brain wiring. You're the one creating the resistance.
They're not the problem.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You are.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
This was me for fifty four years.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Yeah, I have.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
A question because I feel like this theory makes so
much sense when it comes to family, when it comes
to romantic relationships. Can you speak to how it can
work in a situation where you've landed your dream job? Uh,
the job market is terrible. You're like, yes, I've gotten this.
(26:04):
Now you have a toxic boss. Say right, how does
the let them let me theory work in a situation
like that where quitting is not feasible to you.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Where why is it not feasible?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Because maybe you have a family to raise and it's
going to take time to there may be the job
that you're in. There's not a lot of jobs out there,
And so say quitting's not on the table.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You're talking two actresses.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I don't think that's true, but okay, but say it
is true, okay for some people sitting here right.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Okay, if you would like your excuse, you can have it.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Okay, I'd like the excuse in the scenario. So in
this scenario, what can you do?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Because I feel like not everybody that has a toxic manager, whoever,
should have to quit their job to get out of
the situation.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Correct, So whether it's a great question, okay, And I
didn't mean to be a smart ass.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I meant to say that.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
When you're in a situation where you're confronted, it's easy
to say I have no power.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
There is a major difference between what is in your
control yeah, and actually having power.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
And in a situation where you have a boss or
a mother in law that is toxic, you are never
in control of your mother in law or your toxic boss.
You have to let them be who they are, because
wishing they're going to change is just going to create
angst and stress for you, Okay. And so when you
(27:40):
say let them, you are recognizing with steely, cold eyes,
the situation that you're in, okay, and you are going
to remove any hope that you can change them, and
you're going to remove any hope that they're actually going
to change. And the reason why this is important is
because the power is not in them. If you want
(28:02):
a situation to change, the only person who has the
power to change it is you. And so there are
a couple of things you can do here, okay. And
I'm going to assume, for the sake of the fact
that you said toxic boss, that we're not in a
situation where this is a person that's breaking laws. Okay,
So that is violating HR policies that would.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Get them fired. Yes, do this makes sense? They're just
a dick.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
They're a dick. And maybe there, you know, it's a
situation where you're always being looked over for the promotion
and you feel like that there, you know, in a
situation like that, how how can you help? It's so
frustrating because I feel like, if you're a toxic boss, like,
what are the repercussions for you?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
There should be.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You can't just go through life being a toxic boss.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Right. There's a lot of people that have very toxic behavior.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
There's a lot of challenging people, and unfortunately, we live
in a world where challenging people get rewarded because they
exhaust us and people get afraid of them, and everybody
tips around that person and everyone's scared to rock the boat.
Those kind of people bring in the money, so nobody
wants to rock them out. And so here's the choice
that you have. Because you can't control that person, and
(29:07):
you can't control what the company at large is going
to do. You can only control what you're going to
do in that situation. Okay, So number one, when you
say let them, you recognize that any hope that they're
changing is actually a waste of time and it keeps
you gaslating yourself, and any wish that they're changing is
you giving your power away and actually not recognizing that
(29:31):
you have power. And so one option that you have
after you say let them my boss is my boss,
is let me remind myself that my energy and time
matters and so as I'm driving into work, I'm not
going to brace because I know what I'm walking into.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
And let me remind myself.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
That if I'm going to continue to be in this
job and not actually go look for other things, then
I'm actually owning this situation and I'm going to learn
how to tolerate it. And the other thing that I
I will tell you is that your energy is more
powerful than your bosses. Even though you perceive that they
have control over everything, you're actually in control of your career.
(30:11):
I don't think it's true that there's only one place
to work. I don't think it's true that there aren't
other opportunities. I think we blind ourselves to it, and
we say, well, I need the money and I've worked
so hard, and this is n't fair. What if there
was something way better? Yeah, and putting all your energy
here is blinding you to the fact that there's another
(30:32):
door open over there. But because you waste all your
time and energy allowing this jackass to drain your life force,
when you get home at the end of the day,
you don't have the energy to look around the other
thing that you can do. If it's really that bad,
there's two other things I would recommend, since we're talking
about work, one is like document everything that's happening and
(30:52):
then actually talk to people that he reports to. And
you might get fired, yeah, but you might actually feel
empowered yeah, because you're not just taking it and taking
it and taking it. You're recognizing that I get to
choose how I respond. And then I want to let
that's let me piece. And then here's the other thing
I want to I want to give you some research.
It's really important for women to hear catalysts. Did a
(31:15):
huge study about what actually creates a salary raise or
a promotion for women, and I personally believe that this
research is true for absolutely anybody at any age. And
there's only one skill and one thing that actually directly
ties to somebody getting a promotion at work. You want
(31:38):
to know what it is?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Sure any guesses tolerance?
Speaker 6 (31:44):
No, nope, it's are your contributions known? There's the stamina,
but no, it's are your contributions known?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I call this visibility.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Are the contributions that you're making to the organization visible
to the people who could promote you? And the answers
probably know because you're busy with your head down working, working, working,
hoping that your boss notices, or hoping that their boss's notices.
And I'm going to tell you something in life, your
career is not your boss's responsibility, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I think that can happen in the home, of course,
those who work in the home. You can be going, going, going, going,
and nobody's.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Right, and then you're pissed off because your contributions aren't visible.
And what I'm here to say is that visibility is
your responsibility. And so if you feel like you are
being looked over, first of all, you deserve to work
somewhere where you feel seen and accepted and appreciated and
compensated to the work that you do. If you would
like to be compensated for more than what you are
(32:51):
currently doing, then you've got to make sure that you
are taking responsibility. Let me make sure that what I'm
and done is known by people and that it's more
than what they're actually paying me to do. Because if
you're doing a good job, great, that's what I'm paying
you to do. If you actually want a promotion, then
(33:12):
what are the contributions that you're making and how are
you making them visible?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So historically, men are maybe better at this. Sure I
have another scenario, Sure, bring it. We have young listeners.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Huh, so.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Bullying in school? How does the let them let Me
theory work in a.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Scenario like that?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
How old are the kids, like, say, they're in high school?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Okay, So the let them Theory book itself is about
adult relationships, and there's this huge download in the back
or can buy doctor Stuart Ablon from matt General Brigham
psychologist who's been practicing working with kids at mass General
Brigham in Boston for thirty years. And so there's this
huge guide that is so powerful that is going to
(34:14):
answer all the questions on parenting. But let's talk about
that situation. So you're if you are in high school
and you're listening to my words and you are being bullied.
When you say let them, you are not allowing somebody
to bully you. What you're actually doing is you are
(34:34):
separating your worth from what they say about you. Okay, now,
but here's the important thing. Okay, this is not something
to tolerate. I don't want you to just take this
on the chin. You shouldn't be taking this and having
to deal with this on your own.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
That's the let me part.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Let me remind myself that I deserve to walk into
school and actually feel safe and be able to be respected.
And because I deserve that, and I know that, I
am going to talk to my teachers, my parents, the
administration and tell them what's happening. Because what happens when
(35:19):
that sort of thing happens is you're so ashamed that
it's happening, and you're so beaten down that you don't
even ask for help. And so you say, let them
say what they're going to say, let them pick on me,
but let me remind myself because I can't. The powers
not in trying to control the bullies or avoiding them.
The power is in me recognizing this is not okay.
And so my response is going to be not to
(35:41):
tolerate this in silence, but to go and tell somebody
because they shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Be doing this.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Because the other thing we know about kids that bully
is that they got taught to do that because they
were probably being bullied by their parents. That doesn't mean
that it's okay. It means it's a learned behavior that
is not going away until adults step in and actually intervene.
And you know, part of The problem is is that
it doesn't just happen in school. You know, it's happening
(36:08):
in the hallways, but it's also happening online. And so
if it's happening to you online, you're gonna say let
them say, let let them because this is it's already happened.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
But then you're gonna let me remind myself I can
block people.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I need to tell people that this is happening to me,
like I I am not going to allow myself to
sit in silence because this is this kind of it's
not okay.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, it's the reaching out for help, yes, and how
much dignity there is and how much strength there is, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I think there's I think there's confusion though in the
wording of letting them in a situation like that, hearing it,
because it almost feels like let.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Them, let them do what they're gonna do, let them
say what they're going to say. I'm not going to
give these people power. I'm going to remind myself that
I get to choose what I think about myself and
saying this isn't okay, and you don't get to do
this to me, that is taking your power back. Saying
that is saying to yourself, I deserve to get some
(37:06):
help here. I'm not going to suffer in silence. When
you say let let them, you're not giving somebody permission
to harm you. What you're recognizing is spending time and
energy wishing it would go away doesn't make it go away. Yes,
spending time and energy trying to change the people that
(37:29):
are doing this to you actually drains your time and energy.
I want you to detach from what they're doing and
remind yourself. Let me remind myself that I deserve to
feel safe, I deserve to get help. I am not
(37:50):
here on this earth to suffer like this, and I'm
not going to allow myself to suffer alone.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
And that going to somebody.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
At school, whether it's a counselor whether it is somebody
in your family that you trust, and actually telling somebody
that is one of the greatest acts of self love
that you can do, because you are recognizing that you
are a person who doesn't deserve to be treated this way,
(38:21):
and you're saying it to somebody and you're getting help.
And I think one of the reasons why a lot
of kids suffer alone is because they're afraid their parents
are going to intervene, and then they're afraid they're going
to make it worse. And I know that I've had
situations with my kids when they're in middle school in
high school, especially our son, where I'm like.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
What are they? Don't you like?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And you have to restrain your emotions when somebody comes
to you with a very difficult situation like it.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, let's take one with adults.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
You've got a friend who confesses that you know somebody
in their life is cheated on them. The last thing
you want want to do is jump in and be
like that son of a bitch. You want to be like,
how are you feeling? What can I do?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
This must be so painful? Yeah, And simply.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Calming your own emotions and judgment and validating what somebody
is feeling, that's what they need. M Yes, And then
you ask and I would ask this if if I
had somebody in high school call me and talk about this,
I would say to them, no matter how serious this is,
doctor Stuart Ablin's approach, he calls it with them, have
(39:35):
you thought about what you want to do?
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:38):
So you have somebody that calls into your show and
they're distraught and there's so many kids struggling with anxiety
and depression and doing self harm and feeling like there's nobody.
Have you thought about what you might want to do? Course,
it's all they thought about, but they probably have some
really good ideas. And you even just asking that validates
that I actually think you're capable. I'd be curious to
(40:01):
hear what you think you'd like to do? How can
I support you in that?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Which, and now you start to feel empowered.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, which is so great in parenting and I love
that in friendship and marriage and as a daughter to
a mother.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Have you thought about what you'd like to do?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I find that hard with the kids, I'm learning, I'm
doing better, I swear I find myself like truly like
like like I've been slowed down, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I believe in your ability to fix the situation.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yes, and you and I have to say, I've really
like been like walking the talk and.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What's happening magical.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Like I walked by my seventeen year old son's room
the other day and I walked by the door's always open, which,
thank you lord, he still keeps his door open.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Because you're taking the door off. You've taken the door off.
I walk by, and I truly like, and I really
went like, huh.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
And I looked and I was like, because you've gone out.
And what I saw was a completely clean room with
a completely made bed.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
And guess what I hadn't done. I hadn't asked.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Him to clean his room.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, And I hadn't asked him to make his bed
that day. That day, that day, I had laid in
there like hey, and I kind of did.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Guys, you gotta read this book.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I did the thing I think I did. Tell me
how I did. I sat him down. I said, here's
the deal. When I walked by your room and the
bed's undone, and your bag's there, and everything's stilling out
and the expensive computers side with all the thing, it
makes me feel like you think I should be taking
(41:37):
care of your stuff. And I don't want to take
care of your stuff anymore. I want to go out
to dinner with you. I want to play a game
with you, I want to listen to what's happening.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, I didn't want to hear rid your girlfriend. I
don't want to.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Clean up sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And it was a conversation I had like two days
and then when I walked by, and I mean, goosebumps
all out my bike.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
No, I know, we're talking about cleaning up a room.
But it was a game changer and it was simple,
and I was just very honest and I really didn't
even put any like super you know, your mother's an
actress dramatic language in. I really just said exactly that.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I said exactly that.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Growth Yes, okay, you brought up an example, and I
think that we also have so many listeners that call
(42:33):
in heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Oh, yes, okay, let's go.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I know, right, and you mentioned something that I again
because I wish i'd read this when I was sixteen.
I actually probably could have gotten into this when I
was sixteen. But what a gift in my twenties to have,
in a heartbroken state taken a sentence out of your book,
which was, if someone were to tell me that they
(42:58):
knew with absolute certainty, but the love of my life
was five months away, what would I do with the
time that I was in?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yes, And it blew my mind.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Well, let's talk about heartbreak, because the interesting thing is like, yeah,
it would be get well.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Because you don't think they are.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
And so yeah, here's I want I want to back
up a little bit, because my twenty five year old
daughter and I wrote this book together. Yeah, we argued
over every word. I'd be like, well we should I
think I'm gonna tell this story. She's like, that's the
stupidest story. Twenty five year old person my age cares
about that, Like, we walk with my story. So when
we were writing the book, we were writing the love
section and how to use the let them theory to
(43:38):
really choose and create the best love story of your
life and the best loving relationships of your life. And
so we get to the part like we go through
like the early stages and situationships and then how to
take it to the next level, and then how to
decide is this the right person or is this not
my person?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
And then we get to the section on.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Heartbreak, and I kid you not, twenty four hours into
writing this section, her boyfriend, who she thought was going
to be the end of the aisle, broke up with her.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Wow, and she.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Was like, this is the stupidest advice I've ever And
she was in a heap, crying on the floor and
in a dispressive state. And of course when it happens,
because he was like part of our families, like in
the digital frame and now I'm like having to.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Hit Paul's oh god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Frame, and now he and his mother and I are texting,
and I know it's a boundary.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I can't believe this, you know, like yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
And so it was the most extraordinary gift of an experience, Yeah, yeah,
because we wrote that section of the book while she
was processing the biggest heartbreak of.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Her entire life in real time.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And when you say let them, let them walk out
the door, let them move on, let them not love me,
let them not want a commitment, doesn't take the pain away.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
It helps you recognize.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
That that chapter of your life is actually over. And
the advice is incredible because you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Say let them, let them, let them, let them, let them.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
And the only advice that's out there about heartbreak is like.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Well me cown a revenge diet.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Get like, and you don't love yourself, you can hate
yourself like you actually think you're unlovable. You think that
you're never going to find love again. You don't think
you're attractive. You feel rejected.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Aren't You're getting picked?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Yes, exactly, And so you are supposed to be in
a depressive state. This is why you've got to like,
if somebody in your life is going through this, they're grieving,
They're grieving the loss of the life they thought they
were going to have. And then the book goes even
deeper because I'd never thought about heartbreaks this way. Heartbreaks
(46:06):
hurt so badly because you're not just grieving the life
that you thought you were going to have, You're actually
having to unlearned life with a person. You are going
through detox in your nervous system, in your brain because
your nervous system and brain has actually created patterns in
your body because you've spent years with this person, and
(46:30):
so you hear their voice, you sense their presence, and
the mistake that we make, especially in the early days,
You're like, that must mean they miss me, that must
mean they're mind. No, it means your nervous system is
actually having to break patterns them. And so the recommendation,
which you know, my daughter and I did a whole
podcast episode about this too, and we've received more write
(46:50):
ends about this episode where she walked through the process
that our therapist said she should go through, which is
first of all, when you when it happens, allow yourself
to be in a depressive state.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Yeah, but you have to go.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Through a thirty day no contact, no photos, no voice memos,
no videos, no reminders, detox because you have to because anytime,
because you're going through this experience in your body where
(47:27):
your brain is actually breaking apart hearing the patterns of
their voice. You're going through an experience of your body,
of your nervous system sensing the presence in your bed.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
And this is normal.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
And so if you look at a voice memo or
you check their location, guess what you just did. It's
like an It's like somebody who's sober taking a drink. Yeah,
you literally just activated all those old pathways. So somebody
that you know, that girlfriend that can't get over somebody,
it's they've never taken a thirty day break. They still
see the photos, they still cut, so they keep this
old circuitry alive in their body.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Which is so much harder to do.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
Yes, this is why it's even more critical, because you're
actually keeping this alive.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Yes, and they fucking left. The worst thing that you
could do is be with somebody. Yeah when you don't
want to be with them.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I know.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Okay, so she did this yes, and what was it
like after the thirty days?
Speaker 4 (48:24):
So after she's she's adorable because after the thirty days,
she was like, okay, I can call him now. Oh god, yes, yes,
Well she's like, we're honest.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Course, Well no she's not.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
I'm saying she thinks she said that literally even hearing
the voice, Yeah, just flooded the body.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
So day thirty one she called her.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Of course, she said, I was able to actually have
a conversation, like any chance, and clearly there wasn't okay,
and it didn't hurt as much as it would have. Yeah,
and she was also able to go, Okay.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
I gotta move on.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
And without that, what would have happened is what happened
in like every relationship so many of us have, as
we hold on for so long, Yes, because we're keeping
them alive, like just literally replaying all the things. And
so you know, there's a couple of recommendations, which is
you're gonna say, let them, let them, let them, let them,
let them, let them, love them, to just detach, detached, detached, detached.
(49:37):
You should absolutely remove any anything that triggers a memory
of them. For those thirty days, you'd have to burn
it or do anything stupid or dramatic. Just put it
in a box, get it out of site. You Like,
I literally was pausing the photos in the frame and
I'm pausing like maybe we'll come back.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Okay, this would be great, Like I'm hold on, let them,
let them, let them.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
And then the other thing is is that I it
was a huge breakthrough for us because I am such
a fixer.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
I wanted to take her paint.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
Away and I just had to let her be depressed.
So let her where her pajamasy is. Let her collapse
on the floor and cry. Let her have that experience,
because that's how she's going to move through it. And
if I let her cry and I just you know,
put my arms around her, say nothing, I'm actually communicating
(50:27):
to her, I believe you can move through this even.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Though it sucks. And so.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
These are And another really important thing to do is
give your bedroom a small makeover because you spend a
lot of time there. And by small maker, I mean
you can move your bed to a different wall, you
can put a different comforter on. You can you know,
fluff up the pillows or get some cheap throw pillows somewhere,
like change it up, paint a wall as a visual
(50:54):
reminder that something new has begun, and the other There
are some other recommendations too, But you know, the research
is also helpful here because the research says that after
about eleven weeks, seventy.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Percent of people start to feel better.
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Why because time away helps you accept reality. But what
you do with that time matters. And so this third,
if you have if you're not over your ex, I
guarantee you you've never gone thirty days without checking their
location or watching a video or looking at their social
(51:33):
And that's and you're the one keeping them alive. You're
still living in a chapter of your life that's over. Yeah,
that's not that person's fault, it's yours. I believe that
everyone can do this, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
And I.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
So have loved hearing you say all this in person,
even though, like I said, I've actually heard it three
times and I hear.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
God keep listening to it. I would like to say
also that.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
To encapsulate how contagious let them theory is.
Speaker 5 (52:06):
I spoke about it a little bit. My daughter and
I went on a trip.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
We had car time.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
We're talking and she's asking what I'm reading. I'm not
asking her what she's reading, and we.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
Talked about it.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I just gave her like the elevator version. And I
hear her later we're in a hotel room. I'm in
the bathroom and she's on the phone with a friend
who's They put them all on speaker, and the friend
is saying how poorly she was treated by another friend.
And she's listening, and Eve is very compassionate, and just
that she's listening. She's listening, and I'm putting on makeup.
(52:37):
I don't know what I'm doing, and all of a
sudden I hear her say, you know what, let them yeah,
And I was like mid eyelash stroke, like what I
was like, And of course I go to listen.
Speaker 5 (52:53):
And she used it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
The friend hadn't been invited to go to bride, and
she said, let them go to brunch.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
They don't get to be with you. Let them go
to brunch.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Why don't you go for But it was just it
was so it was fluid, and it was supportive, and
it wasn't denying anyone their experiences of there are horrible
people in the world.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
And sadly a lot of them have a lot of power,
and they.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Have power we think they have power over us, but
this is an incredible tool and I'm so grateful to
have it out in the world. Yeah, so thank you
for being with us.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Thank you, and for anybody we had to let them
theory book that you can order.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
I think she even signed. When well she's signed, you're.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Gonna thout her and thank you so much. We have
so many generations of listeners and everything. You covered so
much in just the time that we had, and I
just know that it's going to be so helpful for
me everybody listening, and so yeah, we just want to
(53:57):
thank you so much. That's really gift, it really is. Yeah,
thank you, thank.
Speaker 4 (54:01):
You for inviting me here, thank you for reading the book.
I'm just excited that that so many people are excited
about a book that is helping you improve your life.
You know, I'm a huge fantasy reader, love fantasy, and
so I understand when like books take off in fantasy.
But it's amazing to see a book that isn't about
(54:23):
escaping your life into an alternate universe. It's about actually
turning back into your life, yes, and tapping into the
power that you have. And you know you were saying,
we're both saying very very kind things to me about
you know, the difference that I'm making. But I think
this is the way that I see it because I
just view myself as your friend that hast up a lot,
(54:45):
and I feel like we're all on this kind of
walk on life together, Like we're all on the road together,
and there are times in life where you're going to
be a couple steps ahead of me. There are times
where I'm going to be a couple steps ahead of you.
And if you open up your heart, you can actually
learn from anybody. And I think your best equipped to
help the person you used to be. And so to me,
(55:09):
the reason why this resonates is because I'm just reminding
you of something that you know to be true about you. Yes,
like I'm actually slowing you down and reminding you that
you do have power. I'm reminding you that the things
that we tend to overlook actually do matter. How you
(55:32):
talk to yourself, like the friendships, like your family, like
these things actually matter, and that your time and that
your energy is valuable, but it's only going to be
valuable if you protect it right, And this is helping
you do it, amen, And then yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
For sure, my goodness, absolutely.
Speaker 6 (55:55):
That yes yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes all right,
so much.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
To digest, So this is part of the episode.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
We're sadly the saddest time I've ever had to say this.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
Let's call it the end of the episode. That's such
a cute ending
Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Well, hello, hello, Hello, hello everyone, and welcome to another
episode of Call It What It Is.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
We have a very special guest today. Do you notice
anything different about me as we prepared for this episode?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I did.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
I have never noticed you sweating over guests before, and
you're a little sweaty today.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Glistening you mean a little bit disgusting.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Glistening in my armpits as opposed to my face.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
For everyone listening, you have been talking about this theory
and this person on this podcast for a long time.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Now I have, I have. We're talking about the one
and only mel mel Robins.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Welcome, Welcome.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
So Oprah put a huge spotlight on you right around
the holidays, is what I remember. And she started talking
about your new book, They'll let them theory.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I immediately went.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
To order your book, buy your book, Where can I
get this book? And it was not available, It wasn't
out yet, and I went sneaky, sneaking to my friends
who've my friends in high places who have connections, and
I somehow got a digital copy like the galley is
that what they call it in the business, the galley,
and I got a pre I got a galley, I
(01:37):
got a little sneak peek and I started reading it
and I was so excited. And then as I'm reading it,
I'm getting all the wisdom. And then because I also
pre ordered it on Amazon and I get my real copy.
But don't think that I stopped there. I also got
it on my audible. So I am like, it's like
(01:57):
a three way frontal attack of mel Robbins and the
let Them theory. Anyways, I couldn't do it alone. I
reached out to my mom and I was like, Mom,
we know me. I'm a recovering people pleaser. I'm the
oldest daughter in this family. I think that this theory
was made for me.
Speaker 3 (02:15):
Not only me. It's just a personal book for you.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, but why don't you mom read this with me?
Speaker 4 (02:23):
Well, no, wonder you love the book because I wrote
it with my oldest daughter. There's like first daughter energy
in the book.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
So yes, yeah, what I thought a lot was what
a gift it was for me. But then what I
also thought was what a gift if I got this
when I was twenty And I think it also because
again I got the pre kid, I got all the copies,
and of course I sent one straight to my mom.
I was like, Mom, let's do let we're read this together,
(02:50):
and so we're reading them in tandem. And something about
reading your words allowed for our journey to have no stickiness.
It wasn't like either one of us was. It wasn't
like I was saying, like, you're so controlling, Yeah, chapter
fat did you read that part?
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know, And she wasn't saying it back to me.
It was just free here you were saying that, yeah,
And she could see herself and self report or take
that inventory, and I could see myself and so it
created a conversation. And so I think the multi generational
quality of it as well is just like.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
A little bit of a boom.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
Well, thank you for saying that. There's so much I
want to unpack about what you just said. But in
case you're listening or watching this and you don't know
what the let them theory is, it's simply the act
of in a moment where you feel worried or stressed
out or frustrated or pissed off, you just say let them.
Whether it's about the traffic, or your mother's mood, or
it's the fact that somebody that you're interested in doesn't
(03:49):
want to be let them. And then the second part,
after you've said let them, and you started detach from
trying to control something that's already going on as you
say let me.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
And when you say let me.
Speaker 4 (04:01):
What you're doing is you're reminding yourself in any situation,
whether it's a situation of heartbreak, or it's a situation
where you're overwhelmed, or a situation where you get fired
from a job, or you get a situation where you
don't get invited somewhere, a situation where your mom is
really disappointed in some way.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
That you're living your life and the guilt is flooding in.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
When you say let me, you remind yourself that there's
only three things in life you can control. It's not
your mother's mood. It's not what your boss is doing.
It's not traffic. It's not whether or not somebody chooses
to love you back. It's not whether or not your
friends invite you. The only thing you can control is
what do I think about this? What am I going
to do or not do? And what am I going
(04:43):
to do in response? To the feelings that I feel. So,
if guilt is rising up because your mom's disappointed, am
I going to bend over backwards to try to make
her not disappointed? Or am I going to act like
a grown ass woman and let my mom be disappointed
because she is a grown up and she's allowed to
feel disappointed, She's allowed to have her experience.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
And one of the reason, one of the ways I
can love her is to actually let her feel what.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
She feels without the need to fix it. And if,
like you and like me, you have.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
Spent your life navigating people's moods or happiness or opinions
or expectations, it's exhausting and it doesn't work, And so
it does.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yes, I felt myself squarely in that spot. Ye. And
I remember hearing someone say you can't set yourself on
fire to keep everybody else warm, and it was like.
Speaker 4 (05:39):
Right, that's true, but that's intellectual. So when somebody says
you got to take off you got to put on
your face back first, I'm.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Like, Okay, well, what the hell does that mean?
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yes, and what is you can't light yourself on fire
to keep people warm? How do I apply that when
my life is on fire.
Speaker 3 (05:55):
That's what I love about this book. Yes it's how,
Yes it's how.
Speaker 4 (05:58):
And there's some things to think about, which is, you'll
never take control of your own life until you stop
trying to control everything and everyone around you. If you're exhausted,
if you're tired, if you're not as happy as you'd
like to be, if you don't have what you want
in your life, the problem isn't you. The problem is
(06:19):
the power you're giving to everybody else. Like you've wasted
so much of your precious time and energy trying to
please everyone else and meet their expectations and make sure
they think a certain thing, and they're not doing this,
and they're doing that, that you've exhausted yourself. And what
saying let them and let me taught me is that
there's a totally different way to go about your life.
And the shocking thing is that when you just let
(06:41):
people think negative thoughts, or let them have uncomfortable emotions,
or let them not understand, or let them not invite you,
or let them not want to be with you, you
recognize that you're actually capable of facing anything because the
power's not out there in managing other people. The power
is in hear in how you respond to it, and
(07:02):
we've forgotten that we have handed our power over to
other people's moods, opinions, to these crazy headlines, and in
doing so, we have forgotten that you have so much
power if you take it back, and you're never going
to feel powerful if all you're doing is just worrying
about everybody else and managing everybody else and trying it
(07:22):
and being pissed off about everybody else and stressed out
by the long lines and the traffic and what people
are doing it.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
We're like, no, let them.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But that's what's so interesting about that, because we can
describe the experience when we're pissed off, when we're annoyed,
when we're all the things.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
We're being human, Yes, right, we're just we're actually doing
what our brains were designed to do.
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Yes, what I have found your description of what to
do and the three things that I can control? Yeah,
and not react to respond to, which was a big
thing that I learned. Also, didn't know the difference between
reaction and response.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
I didn't figure this out to my fifties ahead of me.
But that's all human.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Okay, what you outline and these three steps makes me feel,
make me feel like you were giving me some kind
of permission to almost be superhuman, to get above my
human experience.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Yes, not your your your your emotional experience.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yes, and get into that that that wise adult.
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Yes, like so.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
I the reason why this is taken off is because
it doesn't exist in a vacuum. I have made ancient
wisdom a modern tool. This is stoicism, Buddhism, radical acceptance,
detachment theory, all of which are philosophical, intellectual concepts or
therapeutic modalities, all of which are very hard to access
(08:46):
if you're stressed out, pissed off, overwhelmed, or heartbroken. Because
when you're stressed out by life and you're overwhelmed, which
everybody is right now, you're in a state of fight
or flight. And so you're not going to remember the
serenity pro you're not going to remember the tenets of Buddhism.
You're not going to remember how to be stoic. When
you literally are so worried about paying your bills, how
(09:09):
the hell are you going to access something intellectual? And
so what I love about this and why it's taken
off is because a it is part of a legacy
of wisdom that has been around since the history of time,
and it is arriving as a gift to the world
at a moment where things feel absolutely out of control
(09:33):
for most people. And even if you're not worried about
the world at large, there's somebody in your family you're
worried about. You're worried about AI taking over jobs. You're
worried about the economy. You're worried about like a kid
that you have and how they're doing. You're worried about
a girlfriend who's dating some loser. There is some aspect
in your life you're worried about the sense that you're
not quite sure you're happy in the relationship or what
you want to do in the next chapter of your life,
(09:54):
and so you feel overwhelmed and stressed out. And when
you feel or at least me in those moments where
I feel like stressed out or pissed off or frustrated,
I feel out of control, and then I start to
try to control everybody else, and I miss where the
power is, and the power is in just saying let them,
(10:17):
because when you say let them, you're actually recognizing every
time you say let them, you're actually recognizing I can't
control this, Therefore it's not worth my time and energy.
And every time you say this isn't worth my time
and energy, let them, let that adult be mad and
not misunderstanding. Let those women gossip about me, Let these
people unfollow me online, let them let them, let them,
(10:39):
let them. When you say that, you recognize that your
time and energy has worth because you're protecting it, which
is so cool.
Speaker 5 (10:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
I mean, the reason why you're exhausted is because you're
giving your power away, and you can't have power until
you stop giving it away. And most of us are like, wait,
I have power? How could I have power if I'm
burnt out and stressed out and worried about everything and
I feel like I've made too many mistakes in life. Oh,
you have power, all right, you just forgot. And that's
the other thing as to why this is taking off.
(11:13):
I'm reminding you of something you know to be true.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
But I think also handed hand, you're believing there's a
lot of empowerment. The way that you are on social media,
and then the way I hear you in the in
the on the audible, and then how I hear your
way you are empowered. I mean there's a sense that
you believe in me and you and I don't know you.
Of course I do, and I believe that you believe
(11:39):
in everyone.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
True.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I believe every single human being, yeah, has the ability
to make their life better. I believe every single human
being has possibility and potential for their life that they
are not in touch with. I a thousand percent believe
that because I have been in the dirt, in the hole,
I have reinvented myself so many fucking times, and I
(12:03):
understand that the only thing that's standing in between you
and what you deserve and desire in life is you.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
I'm not kidding about this.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Yeah, like the two biggest things that are in everybody's
way because these are the things that were in my way.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
I'm just going to boil it down. Number one, you
are obsessed.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
With what people think about you, and you actually believe
that there's something you can do that could guarantee that
somebody is going to think something you cannot, and so
you're putting so much power in managing people's opinions, expectations,
all that stuff that becomes a huge obstacle because if
you think about what other people are going to do
(12:43):
in response to what you want to do with your life,
you will always hold yourself back. Like if you're constantly
what are my parents going to think about that? I
guess I better not move. Oh what is my boyfriend?
Speaker 5 (12:51):
What is this?
Speaker 3 (12:51):
What you'll you'll.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
Prioritize somebody else's happiness and expectations over your own desire
to do things in your life. And they didn't do
that to you, You did it to yourself. So when
you learn to say, let them be disappointed, let them
not understand, let them like actually not approve.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
There was a guy that wrote to.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
Us yesterday because I am obsessed with reading people's comments
because I love knowing what is actually resonating and how
it's impacting people. And so there was a comment that
came in yesterday that somebody posted online publicly where a
guy was saying that he had read the let them
(13:36):
Theory book and he was so grateful because he's engaged
to Mary, his husband or his fiance, I guess at
the time, and his father is very Irish Catholic and disapproves,
and the wedding's coming up, and the dad had sent
his son and his son's fiance a letter that was
(13:58):
really awful and disapproving and calling into question whether or
not God, you know, is gonna whatever. And what this
guy basically said is before the let them theory, I
would have come unhinged.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
I would have cut him out of my life.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
I would have absolutely, like just been destroyed by it.
And he said, here's what I did. I said, let him,
let him have his opinion, let him have his experience,
let him write something that actually does hurt me, let
him not understand. My father, based on his life experience,
(14:34):
is allowed to believe what he believes. But I don't
have to let that change who I am or how
I'm living my life. And so when I say let him,
I now create space for two things that are true.
(14:54):
My father's opinion is bigoted and it makes me feel sad,
but I can also still want to figure out how
to have space to have a relationship with him. And
in saying let him and literally releasing from the emotion
(15:15):
and just being like, that's what he believes, I'm going
to let him have his belief, and I'm not going
to make it my job to actually try to change
his belief. What I'm going to do is I'm going
to let me remind myself that I get to choose
what I think about myself. I get to choose what
I do and don't do, and I get to choose
how I'm going to respond.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And I'm not going to.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
Respond by allowing this hate to make me hateful. Yeah,
and so a couple days later, he wrote his father
back and basically was like, I you know understand that
you feel this way. We see things very differently. I'm
really good with my relationship with God. I hope that
you will be able to come. And that was it,
(15:54):
and he's like, I'm free because the secret in life
is when you focus on or values and who you
are as a person and the things that you really
want to do in your life, and that's where you
put your energy, and you know you have good intention
and you know where your heart is. It's so fascinating
how quickly you actually don't really think much about other
(16:17):
people at all because you know the truth.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
And I've spent my life looking.
Speaker 4 (16:22):
For the truth about me and other people's opinions. I've
spent my whole life looking for the truth about me
in other people's opinions.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Out I know, I.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Know, Okay, So they let them part of it. So,
and I like this story as an example to it
because I'm wondering what the emotional component of it of. Okay,
so somebody hurts you, like the dad, right, yep. Because initially,
when I was hearing about the theory, it almost I
almost wondered if there was a part of it that
(16:56):
was like, are you by saying let them, are you
detaching emotion from that person? Are you almost numbing yourself
to the to whatever this is?
Speaker 5 (17:06):
So?
Speaker 2 (17:06):
How is it that both things are true? In that
you're you can't change that person, so you're getting that
power back, but also you can still be hurt by
that person.
Speaker 4 (17:19):
You're turning yourself into a zombie. Okay, yeah, you're basically
in that situation. It is a mentally healthy response to
be hurt by somebody who says something hurtful.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
Okay, yes, that's a sign that you're working.
Speaker 4 (17:30):
Your body works well, right when you're hurt by something
that somebody says is hurtful. What we end up doing, though,
is we take those emotional experiences and then we try
to change the other person so the hurt goes away. Right,
You make the hurt go away by actually focusing on
your response to what just happened, not by trying to
change that person. Yes, and here's the other reason why.
(17:53):
There is one thing in life you can't change. It's
other people. You will never be able to change what
another person thinks, believes, does, says, or feels period. And
any time you try to change somebody's opinion by arguing
with them, or you get judgy, or you have suggestions
and they're not looking for any or you think you
know better, you're not organizing motivation. You're actually creating resistance
(18:14):
to the thing that you want.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
They smell your agenda.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
So of course, people only change when they're ready to change.
And what's interesting about this example that I gave you
is that in this example, by saying let him, my
father's allowed to have his opinions. I disagree with them,
but he's allowed to have them. I get to choose
how I'm going to react and whether or not I
(18:37):
give more power to it, which you do when you
get angry. And I also get to choose if I'm
going to keep a space open. And what happens when
you allow people to have their feelings and have their
opinions and you create the space, and then you focus
on showing up in your life in the way.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
That you want to live it.
Speaker 4 (18:57):
Funny thing happens over time with that's people start to
change their mind, not because you jammed it down their throat,
but because they have to reconcile the fact that their
opinion actually makes no sense based on how you live
your life. And there are bazillion examples of this. So,
for example, if you've ever quit a corporate job and
gone off and done your own thing and everybody in
(19:18):
your family doesn't get it, let them not get it,
let them be worried, let them think you're an idiot,
let them not understand this internet thing like whatever it
is that they're saying. Because a funny thing happens the
more you focus on building the new business or becoming
an influencer or writing the book and you're actually doing it.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Have you ever noticed your parents, like I always told
you shad Yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:38):
The space actually gives them this safety to come to
their own conclusion. You're actually loving them and respecting them
and giving them permission to be flawed or have d
up opinions or whatever else, and understanding that people do
change when they actually are ready to change. And through
(19:58):
your example and the influence that yeah, yeah, and so
I feel like, and there's another thing, because your question
was excellent, because one of the other things where I
thought you were going to go with it is when
you say let them. Let's like talk about a relationship,
because we all have that. We all have somebody in
our life who's in a relationship with somebody who is
treating them poorly. Like you see it, You're like, he
(20:22):
won't put a label on this, right, that means he's
having sex with other people. You know, That's what I
won't label. This means I want to be having sex
with other people. Yes, And you're up in your head
like I think, well, I think we're going to get
married in Lake Clomo, And you're like, I think you're
high and so but here's the thing. If you start
(20:43):
to question your friend, what happens is you push her
into the relationship.
Speaker 3 (20:50):
I've had this, yep.
Speaker 5 (20:52):
And so they double down.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
Yes, as a double down there say let them.
Speaker 4 (20:58):
And you're in a situation where a boss or a
parent or somebody you're dating is treating you poorly. People
are like, well, isn't saying let them mean you're just
letting them abuse you? I'm like, no, you're already allowing
that they're already abusing you. You're just explaining it away
in your head and making excuses for why, like this
is somehow acceptable and attractive to you. And I'm not
(21:21):
blaming the victim here, because there are serious situations. I
used to be a crisis intervention counselor on a domestic
violence hotline. The average person in an abusive relationship it's seven.
It's the seventh time that the leave actually sticks because
of the psychological torture of being in a relationship like that.
(21:43):
That said, one of the things that keeps you in
a dysfunctional dynamic with somebody is the hope that it's changing.
And so when you say let them, you are actually
forcing yourself to see someone's behavior as the truth, how
they treat you and feel about you. And the problem
that most of us get into is that we live
(22:05):
in a fantasy in our head instead of facing the
reality of what's actually happening. And if you find that
you're like, why am I always with people that won't commit,
it's because you're confusing yourself. If they only text you
and don't want to see you in real life, it
means they're not interested in you.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
They're bored.
Speaker 4 (22:24):
If you know, like people are like I always have
people that sring me along. Nobody can string you along.
You actually tie yourself up in nuts. Yeah, because you're
unwilling to let their behavior speak the truth that they're
not interested in you.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
They're not listening.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
Yes, yeah, So that's why this is so critical when
it comes to relationships, because we make excuses for things
that we shouldn't be making excuses for.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Is this one that piece of being sort of settled
in familiar pain rather than seeking an unfamiliar pain comes in.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
So there is some really interesting research about this was
like a fascinating and such a simple explanation. It comes
from doctor K who goes as the Healthy gamer online
and he's a Harvard trans psychiatrist who studies gaming addiction,
and he's unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
He had this way of explaining the brain and.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Motivation that completely demystified for me why it's so hard
to actually change. And he basically was like, look, the
problem with all of us is we don't understand our
own wiring the human brain.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Here's what you need to understand.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
You are actually wired to move towards what's easy right now,
That's why we sit on the couch instead of running.
It's why we think about building an online business instead
of doing it. It's why we think about paying our
bills instead of like and then we spend money. We
move towards what's easy now because your brain is actually
wired to do it. Your brain is also wired to
(23:54):
move and push against what feels hard. So in order
to change, you have to defy your own circuitry. You
have to either say, I know this thing is hard,
but I've got a reason that's important enough that I'm
willing to do the hard work to lose the weight,
(24:16):
to cut out sugar, to get up on time, to
get a different job. Now here's where this gets interesting,
because we are hardwired to move towards what's easy. People
actually typically only change if the situation that they're in
is harder than the thing that they're avoiding. So, like,
(24:38):
you know, anybody that has ever gotten sober will tell
you get to a point where it's harder to actually
drink right than facing the stuff that you want to face.
And so what happens in our relationships is, you know,
we want to change everybody else and so you know,
you see your spouse or Sarah, your partner, and they're
sitting on the couch munching some chips, watching the game,
(24:58):
and you're like.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
Why are they not going? Why am I not doing that?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
And then you make the suggestion and you didn't motivate
them by going it's a great day for a walk.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
What happened is they're like, no, your walk.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
And if I would be going on a walk exactly,
I know that I could be going on a walk
right now. And so you now become the thing that's
actually feeling hard. So now they're like pushing away from you.
It's natural brain wiring. You're the one creating the resistance.
They're not the problem.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
You are.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
This was me for fifty four years.
Speaker 5 (25:28):
Yeah, I have.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
A question because I feel like this theory makes so
much sense when it comes to family, when it comes
to romantic relationships. Can you speak to how it can
work in a situation where you've landed your dream job? Uh,
the job market is terrible. You're like, yes, I've gotten this.
(26:04):
Now you have a toxic boss. Say right, how does
the let them let me theory work in a situation
like that where quitting is not feasible to you.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Where why is it not feasible?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Because maybe you have a family to raise and it's
going to take time to there may be the job
that you're in. There's not a lot of jobs out there,
And so say quitting's not on the table.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
You're talking two actresses.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I don't think that's true, but okay, but say it
is true, okay for some people sitting here right.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Okay, if you would like your excuse, you can have it.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Okay, I'd like the excuse in the scenario. So in
this scenario, what can you do?
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Because I feel like not everybody that has a toxic manager, whoever,
should have to quit their job to get out of
the situation.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Correct, So whether it's a great question, okay, And I
didn't mean to be a smart ass.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I meant to say that.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
When you're in a situation where you're confronted, it's easy
to say I have no power.
Speaker 5 (27:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
There is a major difference between what is in your
control yeah, and actually having power.
Speaker 5 (27:17):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (27:18):
And in a situation where you have a boss or
a mother in law that is toxic, you are never
in control of your mother in law or your toxic boss.
You have to let them be who they are, because
wishing they're going to change is just going to create
angst and stress for you, Okay. And so when you
(27:40):
say let them, you are recognizing with steely, cold eyes,
the situation that you're in, okay, and you are going
to remove any hope that you can change them, and
you're going to remove any hope that they're actually going
to change. And the reason why this is important is
because the power is not in them. If you want
(28:02):
a situation to change, the only person who has the
power to change it is you. And so there are
a couple of things you can do here, okay. And
I'm going to assume, for the sake of the fact
that you said toxic boss, that we're not in a
situation where this is a person that's breaking laws. Okay,
So that is violating HR policies that would.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Get them fired. Yes, do this makes sense? They're just
a dick.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
They're a dick. And maybe there, you know, it's a
situation where you're always being looked over for the promotion
and you feel like that there, you know, in a
situation like that, how how can you help? It's so
frustrating because I feel like, if you're a toxic boss, like,
what are the repercussions for you?
Speaker 3 (28:40):
There should be.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
You can't just go through life being a toxic boss.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
Right. There's a lot of people that have very toxic behavior.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
There's a lot of challenging people, and unfortunately, we live
in a world where challenging people get rewarded because they
exhaust us and people get afraid of them, and everybody
tips around that person and everyone's scared to rock the boat.
Those kind of people bring in the money, so nobody
wants to rock them out. And so here's the choice
that you have. Because you can't control that person, and
(29:07):
you can't control what the company at large is going
to do. You can only control what you're going to
do in that situation. Okay, So number one, when you
say let them, you recognize that any hope that they're
changing is actually a waste of time and it keeps
you gaslating yourself, and any wish that they're changing is
you giving your power away and actually not recognizing that
(29:31):
you have power. And so one option that you have
after you say let them my boss is my boss,
is let me remind myself that my energy and time
matters and so as I'm driving into work, I'm not
going to brace because I know what I'm walking into.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
And let me remind myself.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
That if I'm going to continue to be in this
job and not actually go look for other things, then
I'm actually owning this situation and I'm going to learn
how to tolerate it. And the other thing that I
I will tell you is that your energy is more
powerful than your bosses. Even though you perceive that they
have control over everything, you're actually in control of your career.
(30:11):
I don't think it's true that there's only one place
to work. I don't think it's true that there aren't
other opportunities. I think we blind ourselves to it, and
we say, well, I need the money and I've worked
so hard, and this is n't fair. What if there
was something way better? Yeah, and putting all your energy
here is blinding you to the fact that there's another
(30:32):
door open over there. But because you waste all your
time and energy allowing this jackass to drain your life force,
when you get home at the end of the day,
you don't have the energy to look around the other
thing that you can do. If it's really that bad,
there's two other things I would recommend, since we're talking
about work, one is like document everything that's happening and
(30:52):
then actually talk to people that he reports to. And
you might get fired, yeah, but you might actually feel
empowered yeah, because you're not just taking it and taking
it and taking it. You're recognizing that I get to
choose how I respond. And then I want to let
that's let me piece. And then here's the other thing
I want to I want to give you some research.
It's really important for women to hear catalysts. Did a
(31:15):
huge study about what actually creates a salary raise or
a promotion for women, and I personally believe that this
research is true for absolutely anybody at any age. And
there's only one skill and one thing that actually directly
ties to somebody getting a promotion at work. You want
(31:38):
to know what it is?
Speaker 3 (31:39):
Sure any guesses tolerance?
Speaker 6 (31:44):
No, nope, it's are your contributions known? There's the stamina,
but no, it's are your contributions known?
Speaker 3 (31:57):
I call this visibility.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
Are the contributions that you're making to the organization visible
to the people who could promote you? And the answers
probably know because you're busy with your head down working, working, working,
hoping that your boss notices, or hoping that their boss's notices.
And I'm going to tell you something in life, your
career is not your boss's responsibility, it's yours.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, I think that can happen in the home, of course,
those who work in the home. You can be going, going, going, going,
and nobody's.
Speaker 4 (32:29):
Right, and then you're pissed off because your contributions aren't visible.
And what I'm here to say is that visibility is
your responsibility. And so if you feel like you are
being looked over, first of all, you deserve to work
somewhere where you feel seen and accepted and appreciated and
compensated to the work that you do. If you would
like to be compensated for more than what you are
(32:51):
currently doing, then you've got to make sure that you
are taking responsibility. Let me make sure that what I'm
and done is known by people and that it's more
than what they're actually paying me to do. Because if
you're doing a good job, great, that's what I'm paying
you to do. If you actually want a promotion, then
(33:12):
what are the contributions that you're making and how are
you making them visible?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
So historically, men are maybe better at this. Sure I
have another scenario, Sure, bring it. We have young listeners.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
Huh, so.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Bullying in school? How does the let them let Me
theory work in a.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Scenario like that?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
How old are the kids, like, say, they're in high school?
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Okay, So the let them Theory book itself is about
adult relationships, and there's this huge download in the back
or can buy doctor Stuart Ablon from matt General Brigham
psychologist who's been practicing working with kids at mass General
Brigham in Boston for thirty years. And so there's this
huge guide that is so powerful that is going to
(34:14):
answer all the questions on parenting. But let's talk about
that situation. So you're if you are in high school
and you're listening to my words and you are being bullied.
When you say let them, you are not allowing somebody
to bully you. What you're actually doing is you are
(34:34):
separating your worth from what they say about you. Okay, now,
but here's the important thing. Okay, this is not something
to tolerate. I don't want you to just take this
on the chin. You shouldn't be taking this and having
to deal with this on your own.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
That's the let me part.
Speaker 4 (34:56):
Let me remind myself that I deserve to walk into
school and actually feel safe and be able to be respected.
And because I deserve that, and I know that, I
am going to talk to my teachers, my parents, the
administration and tell them what's happening. Because what happens when
(35:19):
that sort of thing happens is you're so ashamed that
it's happening, and you're so beaten down that you don't
even ask for help. And so you say, let them
say what they're going to say, let them pick on me,
but let me remind myself because I can't. The powers
not in trying to control the bullies or avoiding them.
The power is in me recognizing this is not okay.
And so my response is going to be not to
(35:41):
tolerate this in silence, but to go and tell somebody
because they shouldn't.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Be doing this.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Because the other thing we know about kids that bully
is that they got taught to do that because they
were probably being bullied by their parents. That doesn't mean
that it's okay. It means it's a learned behavior that
is not going away until adults step in and actually intervene.
And you know, part of The problem is is that
it doesn't just happen in school. You know, it's happening
(36:08):
in the hallways, but it's also happening online. And so
if it's happening to you online, you're gonna say let
them say, let let them because this is it's already happened.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
But then you're gonna let me remind myself I can
block people.
Speaker 4 (36:21):
I need to tell people that this is happening to me,
like I I am not going to allow myself to
sit in silence because this is this kind of it's
not okay.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, it's the reaching out for help, yes, and how
much dignity there is and how much strength there is, yes.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
I think there's I think there's confusion though in the
wording of letting them in a situation like that, hearing it,
because it almost feels like let.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Them, let them do what they're gonna do, let them
say what they're going to say. I'm not going to
give these people power. I'm going to remind myself that
I get to choose what I think about myself and
saying this isn't okay, and you don't get to do
this to me, that is taking your power back. Saying
that is saying to yourself, I deserve to get some
(37:06):
help here. I'm not going to suffer in silence. When
you say let let them, you're not giving somebody permission
to harm you. What you're recognizing is spending time and
energy wishing it would go away doesn't make it go away. Yes,
spending time and energy trying to change the people that
(37:29):
are doing this to you actually drains your time and energy.
I want you to detach from what they're doing and
remind yourself. Let me remind myself that I deserve to
feel safe, I deserve to get help. I am not
(37:50):
here on this earth to suffer like this, and I'm
not going to allow myself to suffer alone.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
And that going to somebody.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
At school, whether it's a counselor whether it is somebody
in your family that you trust, and actually telling somebody
that is one of the greatest acts of self love
that you can do, because you are recognizing that you
are a person who doesn't deserve to be treated this way,
(38:21):
and you're saying it to somebody and you're getting help.
And I think one of the reasons why a lot
of kids suffer alone is because they're afraid their parents
are going to intervene, and then they're afraid they're going
to make it worse. And I know that I've had
situations with my kids when they're in middle school in
high school, especially our son, where I'm like.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
What are they? Don't you like?
Speaker 4 (38:41):
And you have to restrain your emotions when somebody comes
to you with a very difficult situation like it.
Speaker 3 (38:51):
Well, let's take one with adults.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
You've got a friend who confesses that you know somebody
in their life is cheated on them. The last thing
you want want to do is jump in and be
like that son of a bitch. You want to be like,
how are you feeling? What can I do?
Speaker 3 (39:06):
This must be so painful? Yeah, And simply.
Speaker 4 (39:13):
Calming your own emotions and judgment and validating what somebody
is feeling, that's what they need. M Yes, And then
you ask and I would ask this if if I
had somebody in high school call me and talk about this,
I would say to them, no matter how serious this is,
doctor Stuart Ablin's approach, he calls it with them, have
(39:35):
you thought about what you want to do?
Speaker 5 (39:37):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (39:38):
So you have somebody that calls into your show and
they're distraught and there's so many kids struggling with anxiety
and depression and doing self harm and feeling like there's nobody.
Have you thought about what you might want to do? Course,
it's all they thought about, but they probably have some
really good ideas. And you even just asking that validates
that I actually think you're capable. I'd be curious to
(40:01):
hear what you think you'd like to do? How can
I support you in that?
Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:04):
Which, and now you start to feel empowered.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, which is so great in parenting and I love
that in friendship and marriage and as a daughter to
a mother.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Have you thought about what you'd like to do?
Speaker 1 (40:14):
I find that hard with the kids, I'm learning, I'm
doing better, I swear I find myself like truly like
like like I've been slowed down, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I believe in your ability to fix the situation.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yes, and you and I have to say, I've really
like been like walking the talk and.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
What's happening magical.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Like I walked by my seventeen year old son's room
the other day and I walked by the door's always open, which,
thank you lord, he still keeps his door open.
Speaker 3 (40:41):
Because you're taking the door off. You've taken the door off.
I walk by, and I truly like, and I really
went like, huh.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
And I looked and I was like, because you've gone out.
And what I saw was a completely clean room with
a completely made bed.
Speaker 5 (41:01):
And guess what I hadn't done. I hadn't asked.
Speaker 3 (41:04):
Him to clean his room.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, And I hadn't asked him to make his bed
that day. That day, that day, I had laid in
there like hey, and I kind of did.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Guys, you gotta read this book.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
I did the thing I think I did. Tell me
how I did. I sat him down. I said, here's
the deal. When I walked by your room and the
bed's undone, and your bag's there, and everything's stilling out
and the expensive computers side with all the thing, it
makes me feel like you think I should be taking
(41:37):
care of your stuff. And I don't want to take
care of your stuff anymore. I want to go out
to dinner with you. I want to play a game
with you, I want to listen to what's happening.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Yeah, I didn't want to hear rid your girlfriend. I
don't want to.
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Clean up sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
And it was a conversation I had like two days
and then when I walked by, and I mean, goosebumps
all out my bike.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
No, I know, we're talking about cleaning up a room.
But it was a game changer and it was simple,
and I was just very honest and I really didn't
even put any like super you know, your mother's an
actress dramatic language in. I really just said exactly that.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
I said exactly that.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Growth Yes, okay, you brought up an example, and I
think that we also have so many listeners that call
(42:33):
in heartbroken.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Oh, yes, okay, let's go.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
I know, right, and you mentioned something that I again
because I wish i'd read this when I was sixteen.
I actually probably could have gotten into this when I
was sixteen. But what a gift in my twenties to have,
in a heartbroken state taken a sentence out of your book,
which was, if someone were to tell me that they
(42:58):
knew with absolute certainty, but the love of my life
was five months away, what would I do with the
time that I was in?
Speaker 3 (43:05):
Yes, And it blew my mind.
Speaker 4 (43:08):
Well, let's talk about heartbreak, because the interesting thing is like, yeah,
it would be get well.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Because you don't think they are.
Speaker 4 (43:15):
And so yeah, here's I want I want to back
up a little bit, because my twenty five year old
daughter and I wrote this book together. Yeah, we argued
over every word. I'd be like, well we should I
think I'm gonna tell this story. She's like, that's the
stupidest story. Twenty five year old person my age cares
about that, Like, we walk with my story. So when
we were writing the book, we were writing the love
section and how to use the let them theory to
(43:38):
really choose and create the best love story of your
life and the best loving relationships of your life. And
so we get to the part like we go through
like the early stages and situationships and then how to
take it to the next level, and then how to
decide is this the right person or is this not
my person?
Speaker 3 (43:55):
And then we get to the section on.
Speaker 4 (43:57):
Heartbreak, and I kid you not, twenty four hours into
writing this section, her boyfriend, who she thought was going
to be the end of the aisle, broke up with her.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Wow, and she.
Speaker 4 (44:14):
Was like, this is the stupidest advice I've ever And
she was in a heap, crying on the floor and
in a dispressive state. And of course when it happens,
because he was like part of our families, like in
the digital frame and now I'm like having to.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Hit Paul's oh god, yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
Frame, and now he and his mother and I are texting,
and I know it's a boundary.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
I can't believe this, you know, like yeah.
Speaker 4 (44:37):
And so it was the most extraordinary gift of an experience, Yeah, yeah,
because we wrote that section of the book while she
was processing the biggest heartbreak of.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Her entire life in real time.
Speaker 4 (44:56):
And when you say let them, let them walk out
the door, let them move on, let them not love me,
let them not want a commitment, doesn't take the pain away.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
It helps you recognize.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
That that chapter of your life is actually over. And
the advice is incredible because you're gonna.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Say let them, let them, let them, let them, let them.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
And the only advice that's out there about heartbreak is like.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Well me cown a revenge diet.
Speaker 4 (45:31):
Get like, and you don't love yourself, you can hate
yourself like you actually think you're unlovable. You think that
you're never going to find love again. You don't think
you're attractive. You feel rejected.
Speaker 5 (45:43):
Aren't You're getting picked?
Speaker 4 (45:45):
Yes, exactly, And so you are supposed to be in
a depressive state. This is why you've got to like,
if somebody in your life is going through this, they're grieving,
They're grieving the loss of the life they thought they
were going to have. And then the book goes even
deeper because I'd never thought about heartbreaks this way. Heartbreaks
(46:06):
hurt so badly because you're not just grieving the life
that you thought you were going to have, You're actually
having to unlearned life with a person. You are going
through detox in your nervous system, in your brain because
your nervous system and brain has actually created patterns in
your body because you've spent years with this person, and
(46:30):
so you hear their voice, you sense their presence, and
the mistake that we make, especially in the early days,
You're like, that must mean they miss me, that must
mean they're mind. No, it means your nervous system is
actually having to break patterns them. And so the recommendation,
which you know, my daughter and I did a whole
podcast episode about this too, and we've received more write
(46:50):
ends about this episode where she walked through the process
that our therapist said she should go through, which is
first of all, when you when it happens, allow yourself
to be in a depressive state.
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Yeah, but you have to go.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
Through a thirty day no contact, no photos, no voice memos,
no videos, no reminders, detox because you have to because anytime,
because you're going through this experience in your body where
(47:27):
your brain is actually breaking apart hearing the patterns of
their voice. You're going through an experience of your body,
of your nervous system sensing the presence in your bed.
Speaker 3 (47:38):
And this is normal.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
And so if you look at a voice memo or
you check their location, guess what you just did. It's
like an It's like somebody who's sober taking a drink. Yeah,
you literally just activated all those old pathways. So somebody
that you know, that girlfriend that can't get over somebody,
it's they've never taken a thirty day break. They still
see the photos, they still cut, so they keep this
old circuitry alive in their body.
Speaker 3 (48:02):
Which is so much harder to do.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
Yes, this is why it's even more critical, because you're
actually keeping this alive.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
Yes, and they fucking left. The worst thing that you
could do is be with somebody. Yeah when you don't
want to be with them.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
I know.
Speaker 2 (48:19):
Okay, so she did this yes, and what was it
like after the thirty days?
Speaker 4 (48:24):
So after she's she's adorable because after the thirty days,
she was like, okay, I can call him now. Oh god, yes, yes,
Well she's like, we're honest.
Speaker 2 (48:35):
Yeah, yeah, of.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
Course, Well no she's not.
Speaker 4 (48:39):
I'm saying she thinks she said that literally even hearing
the voice, Yeah, just flooded the body.
Speaker 2 (48:48):
So day thirty one she called her.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
Of course, she said, I was able to actually have
a conversation, like any chance, and clearly there wasn't okay,
and it didn't hurt as much as it would have. Yeah,
and she was also able to go, Okay.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
I gotta move on.
Speaker 4 (49:13):
And without that, what would have happened is what happened
in like every relationship so many of us have, as
we hold on for so long, Yes, because we're keeping
them alive, like just literally replaying all the things. And
so you know, there's a couple of recommendations, which is
you're gonna say, let them, let them, let them, let them,
let them, let them, love them, to just detach, detached, detached, detached.
(49:37):
You should absolutely remove any anything that triggers a memory
of them. For those thirty days, you'd have to burn
it or do anything stupid or dramatic. Just put it
in a box, get it out of site. You Like,
I literally was pausing the photos in the frame and
I'm pausing like maybe we'll come back.
Speaker 3 (49:53):
Okay, this would be great, Like I'm hold on, let them,
let them, let them.
Speaker 4 (49:56):
And then the other thing is is that I it
was a huge breakthrough for us because I am such
a fixer.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
I wanted to take her paint.
Speaker 4 (50:04):
Away and I just had to let her be depressed.
So let her where her pajamasy is. Let her collapse
on the floor and cry. Let her have that experience,
because that's how she's going to move through it. And
if I let her cry and I just you know,
put my arms around her, say nothing, I'm actually communicating
(50:27):
to her, I believe you can move through this even.
Speaker 3 (50:30):
Though it sucks. And so.
Speaker 4 (50:33):
These are And another really important thing to do is
give your bedroom a small makeover because you spend a
lot of time there. And by small maker, I mean
you can move your bed to a different wall, you
can put a different comforter on. You can you know,
fluff up the pillows or get some cheap throw pillows somewhere,
like change it up, paint a wall as a visual
(50:54):
reminder that something new has begun, and the other There
are some other recommendations too, But you know, the research
is also helpful here because the research says that after
about eleven weeks, seventy.
Speaker 3 (51:09):
Percent of people start to feel better.
Speaker 4 (51:12):
Why because time away helps you accept reality. But what
you do with that time matters. And so this third,
if you have if you're not over your ex, I
guarantee you you've never gone thirty days without checking their
location or watching a video or looking at their social
(51:33):
And that's and you're the one keeping them alive. You're
still living in a chapter of your life that's over. Yeah,
that's not that person's fault, it's yours. I believe that
everyone can do this, absolutely.
Speaker 5 (51:50):
And I.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
So have loved hearing you say all this in person,
even though, like I said, I've actually heard it three
times and I hear.
Speaker 5 (51:58):
God keep listening to it. I would like to say
also that.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
To encapsulate how contagious let them theory is.
Speaker 5 (52:06):
I spoke about it a little bit. My daughter and
I went on a trip.
Speaker 3 (52:08):
We had car time.
Speaker 1 (52:09):
We're talking and she's asking what I'm reading. I'm not
asking her what she's reading, and we.
Speaker 5 (52:13):
Talked about it.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
I just gave her like the elevator version. And I
hear her later we're in a hotel room. I'm in
the bathroom and she's on the phone with a friend
who's They put them all on speaker, and the friend
is saying how poorly she was treated by another friend.
And she's listening, and Eve is very compassionate, and just
that she's listening. She's listening, and I'm putting on makeup.
(52:37):
I don't know what I'm doing, and all of a
sudden I hear her say, you know what, let them yeah,
And I was like mid eyelash stroke, like what I
was like, And of course I go to listen.
Speaker 5 (52:53):
And she used it perfectly.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
The friend hadn't been invited to go to bride, and
she said, let them go to brunch.
Speaker 3 (53:02):
They don't get to be with you. Let them go
to brunch.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Why don't you go for But it was just it
was so it was fluid, and it was supportive, and
it wasn't denying anyone their experiences of there are horrible
people in the world.
Speaker 3 (53:16):
And sadly a lot of them have a lot of power,
and they.
Speaker 1 (53:18):
Have power we think they have power over us, but
this is an incredible tool and I'm so grateful to
have it out in the world. Yeah, so thank you
for being with us.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Thank you, and for anybody we had to let them
theory book that you can order.
Speaker 3 (53:31):
I think she even signed. When well she's signed, you're.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Gonna thout her and thank you so much. We have
so many generations of listeners and everything. You covered so
much in just the time that we had, and I
just know that it's going to be so helpful for
me everybody listening, and so yeah, we just want to
(53:57):
thank you so much. That's really gift, it really is. Yeah,
thank you, thank.
Speaker 4 (54:01):
You for inviting me here, thank you for reading the book.
I'm just excited that that so many people are excited
about a book that is helping you improve your life.
You know, I'm a huge fantasy reader, love fantasy, and
so I understand when like books take off in fantasy.
But it's amazing to see a book that isn't about
(54:23):
escaping your life into an alternate universe. It's about actually
turning back into your life, yes, and tapping into the
power that you have. And you know you were saying,
we're both saying very very kind things to me about
you know, the difference that I'm making. But I think
this is the way that I see it because I
just view myself as your friend that hast up a lot,
(54:45):
and I feel like we're all on this kind of
walk on life together, Like we're all on the road together,
and there are times in life where you're going to
be a couple steps ahead of me. There are times
where I'm going to be a couple steps ahead of you.
And if you open up your heart, you can actually
learn from anybody. And I think your best equipped to
help the person you used to be. And so to me,
(55:09):
the reason why this resonates is because I'm just reminding
you of something that you know to be true about you. Yes,
like I'm actually slowing you down and reminding you that
you do have power. I'm reminding you that the things
that we tend to overlook actually do matter. How you
(55:32):
talk to yourself, like the friendships, like your family, like
these things actually matter, and that your time and that
your energy is valuable, but it's only going to be
valuable if you protect it right, And this is helping
you do it, amen, And then yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
For sure, my goodness, absolutely.
Speaker 6 (55:55):
That yes yes, yes, yes, yes yes yes all right,
so much.
Speaker 3 (55:58):
To digest, So this is part of the episode.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
We're sadly the saddest time I've ever had to say this.
Speaker 3 (56:05):
Let's call it the end of the episode. That's such
a cute ending
Hosts And Creators
Jessica Capshaw
Camilla Luddington
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