June 13, 2024 • 40 mins
The Acura Integra Type S has us examining the state of the affordable sports sedan. Hosts Tony Quiroga and Eddie Alterman take the Integra Type S out for a drive and then sit down with Acura product planner Jonathon Rivers to get the back story on this 10 Best-winning car.
For more on the Acura Integra Type S visit Car and Driver online.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Car and Drivers Into Cars, a
podcast from iHeartMedia is Ruby Studio, brought to you by
eBay Motors. I'm Tony ki Roger, the editor in chief
of Car and Driver, and I'm joined by my co host,
former editor in chief and current Chief Brand and Content Officer,
Eddie Alterman, and together we're Into Cars.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Each episode of this podcast covers a new car that
we think is worthy of your attention. The cars we
select may feature a novel design, cutting edge engineering, or
something entirely new. We'll cover the stories behind the cars,
answering the whys and exploring the whats to bring you
into the experience. We'll drive the things and let you
listen in, and then we'll sit down with the people
(00:44):
who made the cars to answer your questions about them.
Come along for the ride and you'll hear it all
the good, the bad, and the ugly in the way
that only Car and Driver delivers.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Today, we're examining the state of the affordable sportsdan by
digging into the Accura Integra type. Closely related to the
Honda Civic type are the Integer typees goes its own
way by offering a more mature approach to performance. It's
also unique against its competition because it only comes with
the manual transmission. It follows the classic sport compact formula,
a powerful turbocharge force cylinder, front wheel drive, a manual transmission,
(01:18):
and a chansis built to handle.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Let's dig into this thing. You and I have both
driven it extensively on a variety of roads, and it's
really different feeling than the Civic Type R on which
it's based. And it's funny because when Acer came out
in the mid eighties with cars like the Legend that
(01:47):
was the first one, and then they did the NSX,
it was more than just Honda Plus, right, you know,
longitudinal front drive layouts. The Accura Vigor had the five
cylinder to go up against Audi. The NSX was obviously
everybody knows that's like the godhead supercar.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean it was a luxury and performance brand.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And there was so much value and content in these
things because the end was so strong. But now we
have an Accura with perfectly nice cars TLX, MDX, RDX
and this Integra Type S, but they're alsort of Honda Plus.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
However, Yeah, this one's pretty special, and you could think
of it as being a Honda Plus almost because it's
so closely related to the Civic type bar. But it
really goes its own way. Like you said, as soon
as you get into it, you realize it's just a
more mature car. The Civic type bars for under forty
and the Integra is for people over forty. So I mean,
(02:50):
if you've got hair growing out of your ears and
it's falling out of your head, that's exactly the one
you'll pick. And if you have hair on your head
and none in your ears, you all for the Civic typear.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right. The Civic type bar is a hot hatch. The
Integret type is a sport sedan, right that happens to
have a hatchback. But yeah, it's not the same thing.
It doesn't have the ridiculous wing, it doesn't look as crazy.
Yes it has fender flares, but it's something only somebody
in the know would necessarily notice, so you fly under
the radar. And it also makes a really lovely daily driver.
Accurate tuned it so that the suspension is just a
(03:20):
little bit softer on rebound, so you don't feel those
impacts as hard as frenetic. Yeah, it's not as like
high strung as the CTR.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But then you don't lose any of the great stuff.
You don't lose any of the fun of the powertrain.
You still have that same wonderful manual transmission, which is
one of the best since like the S two thousand.
I mean, it's a spectacular manual transmission and you get
five bonus horsepower. Oh nice, and it sounds better. I
think it does. It does sound better.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, But you know the Civic type are the interior
is so gautty. I mean it looks like a vape
shop in there. And this is really pretty refined and
nice and you know, great metallic surfaces and handles. And
the one I think real improvement on the INTI is
they went from the all titanium shift knob on the
Civic type bar to a leather rapped one so you
(04:05):
don't burn your hand.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That's right, Yeah, I mean, because Accur is a luxury brand,
so you want to have that little strip. That little
ring of leather makes all the difference. But it really
actually does, because when it's incredibly hot out and the
sun's been beating down on your shifter, you get like
the Raiders of the Lost Arc style print in your hand.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's sort of the kind of car that isn't made
a lot these days. There is a competitive set for it,
which is like the BMW M two thirty five Grand
coupe and the Audi S three, which is around the
same horse power.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And there is a cluster of these like three hundred
horsepower small sedans, but crucially, none of them have manual transmissions,
and they're all a lot heavier than the Accura as well.
They're all three to four to five hundre pounds heavier
because they're all have all wheel drive systems, which do
enable them to put up some pretty impressive performance numbers
when it comes to acceleration. But acceleration in everything. I
(04:58):
know that sounds crazy coming carent driver. You know, we
test everything in zero to sixty is so important to us,
but it's not everything. And the Accurate does a lot
of things that these other cars don't do because of
driver involvement. And it's just a lighter car, so it
feels more playful and it just feels like a slightly
less serious car.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And I think that's the whole point of this thing.
It's not about the numbers. It truly returns great driver
feel great chansis feel great engine sounds, whereas the other
heavier cars feel a little dead and remote. By comparison,
I think only the Audi S three in that competitive
set has some of that playfulness. Maybe CT four V,
(05:35):
but as you said, those are more sort of grown up,
big boy cars.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, those cars all sort of want to be the
bigger cars in their lineup in some way. But the
Integra Type S doesn't at all. It doesn't want to
be a TLX. It's real happy being an Integra Type S.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah. And you know, there are a lot of fanboys,
Accura lovers, and if you go and bring a trailer,
you see crazy money being paid for old Integra and
they don't necessarily like that this thing has four doors
and that it's so expensive relative to the Civic type BR.
But man, it's really worth it. You have to drive it,
(06:11):
and it's what seven seventy one dollars more expensive than.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It's not an insurmountable amount of money, And considering Civic
type bars all had a huge price gouging basically happening
at the dealer level. Maybe there's price parody. I don't know,
Maybe it's cheaper, yeah, exactly. You might find an accurate
dealer that's willing to sell it to you at sticker
versus a Honda dealer.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, that's right, Like the accurate dealer is trying to
get rid of this thing because it's you know, it's
kind of manal trans and like the MDX fires going
in there to the dealership going what what is this? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
What is this crazy little thing? So it doesn't really
quite fit into the lineup, but it would have fit
into the lineup beautifully, as you pointed out in the nineties.
But I think Accurate sort of moving in that direction.
They brought the NSX out and that lasted until a
couple of years ago. So they do want performance, and
they really they seem to understand that performance is really part.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Of the Should we go drive it?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, let's go see what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, okay, here we are. You know now that we're
in the Integra type s to the earlier point about
Acura's just being hot. The plus now, the Hondas are
so good that if you plus them up a little bit,
(07:30):
they become sort of incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Absolutely, And I mean one of the first seas you
noticed is it's just easier to get into because of
the seats over seas. Yeah, the bolsters aren't as big.
And then there's no red carpet. You can get different
interior colors in this car rather than than just the
red carpet and the red front seats.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the level of fit and finish is extraordinarily high,
and it's also true of the Honda. But it really
feels at home here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And the nice thing I mean ergonomically, you get a
volume knob, which is something Honda made a mistake of
getting away from for a while. You get automatic climate control,
you get a lot of luxury car bits to this.
You get heated seats, which I don't think you can
get in the Civic type Bar.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, I don't have a power seat on my side,
Oh you don't.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
A lot of Porsches don't have that. It's weight saving,
that's exactly right. And we got the hot audio in
this thing. Yeah, it's got the ELS system.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you know what ELS means?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, it's Elliott Shiner El's he was the Steely Dan engineer.
Oh is that right? Yeah? The standard system in the
Civic Type Bar is a Bose system, So it also
has a good a pretty good sound system. Should we
get driving.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, let's get going, all right. See what this thing is?
All of us shifters so sweet? It is sweet. I
put on the rev match for you. Oh nice, because
you're an old man.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah exactly, And I'm an old man. That's why I
prefer the type s have I told you about the
law of conservation of hair, the law of conservation of mass, right, Okay,
So any hair you lose on your body ends up
growing somewhere else. So I've lost a lot of hair
on the top of my head, and I've noticed it's
really coming into my ears. So this is really the type,
(09:06):
as I think, is the car for guys who have
some ear hair.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, mine has migrated from the top of my head
to my back.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Exactly. Love conservation of hair.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I like that. Love conservators there you can either create
nor destroy hair.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Right, Yes, it just comes out somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
The ride doesn't beat you up.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
No, it's immediately apparent that it's not the jittery, taffeinated ride.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, pacific type of like I'm a sports car. I'm exciting.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I'm going to show you.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah exactly, that's that's not what's happening here at all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And they did that by relaxing the rebound damping.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, and it has it has multi mode, so you
can still kick it up to a pretty stiff ride.
But in the Honda on Track, when I drove that
at VIR at Virginia International Raceway, I dialed it back
because any rode and he like bumps on the track
like unsettled the car, and I just wanted that much
more compliance. But with this car, they were actually able
to run it in the stiffer modes because the stiffer
(10:05):
modes sort of align with the softer modes in the
Civic Wild.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
But that said, the Civic is, Oh that sounds great now,
I noticed a little torque steer.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, it's definitely from wheel drive. This isn't the most
like even surface, so you'll get a little bit of
a tug. But I mean it does have three hundred
twenty horsepower, so there's a lot of power going through
the front wheels. And it has the dual access struts
which are sort of like GM's hyperstrut.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Or forty knuckle separating the steering end the.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Steering from the strut, and it just it just improves
the wheel geometry and eliminates some of that torque steer.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And this has a front limited slip.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
To yeah, it's got a helical front limited slip, so
that basically allows power to go to the wheel that
needs it most. I didn't get to drive this car
on track, but I drove the Civic type bar on track,
and unlike most front wheel drive cars where you have
to be patient and wait and wait and wait to
put the power down, you could just stop it and
then the magical dift like just figured it out, no worries,
(11:09):
no problem. It was really, really, really an amazing thing.
And there's so much higher. It's two sixty five's all
the way around, so it's like a ridiculous I mean,
that was like a rear tire size on a nine
to eleven not that long, and you get four of
them here.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So it's I think it pulls over a G, like
just over a G on the skid pad. So our
skid pad test is a large circle and we basically
test how long the car hangs onto the ground and
it pulls over a G. So it's basically your weight
being pulled left or to the right. It's pretty amazing
that a car does.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That one gravity. Oh nice maneuver, sir, that was a
good piece of driving.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We're driving on public roads.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yes, and love being Annaburm, Michigan. I also have a theory,
not unlike your hair conservation theory, which is the more
intellectuals you have in a city, the worse the driving
will be. Yes, and Boston is my kind of proof
of interest there. Oh yeah, that shifter is so sweet.
(12:12):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
We talked about it before. But just this little piece
of leather here makes all the difference.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Look, it's got this little ultra suede booty, this Alcantara
style booty. That's a cool little touch. And I'm not
feeling like I'm in a Honda.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
No, it's much quieter just going down the road. And
in our testing the sound level meter didn't really pick
up a difference. It's seventy miles an hour. They were
both the same amount of sound. They were both seventy
three decibels. It's just the quality of sound character so
much better. You don't get all the tire noise, you
don't get very much wind rush, you don't get any
engine drone. Really, it's really it's the adult version of
(12:49):
the platform.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
There's a lot more sound deadening for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And it doesn't really weigh that much more either. It
weighs like thirty or forty or fifty pounds more than
the Civic Type bar, so it's not like you're putting
on this huge weight gain. It's not like a Lincoln
town Car style sound deadening experience either.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, how much does the Civic Type are wing way?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
But yeah, the lightweight of this car is really what
makes I mean, to me, what makes it and the
Civic Type are really special.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
It's got sort of, I don't want to say, a
retro feel, but it does feel unlike a lot of
cars now that feel very heavy and plodding and sort
of clamp over the road. This thing is just light
on its feet. It dances around.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And there aren't a lot of cars left like that,
I know. I mean, even it's competition, they all weigh
a lot more because of their all wheel drive systems,
and they all sort of aspire to be a car
that they a larger car or a more refined car.
This car sort of is happy being the kind of
car that it is.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, and it's it's playful and it's not I mean,
I just find myself gravitating towards smaller cars nowadays because
everything has you know, so much extra mass, and the
steering is so dead on so many cars now with
you know, electric power assist instead of hydraulic assists, and
(14:10):
there's a numbing effect that's happened on a lot of cars.
And this is a rare sort of car that's both
very alive but also subdued when it needs to be.
It's not always a band faced totally totally of like
being a great daily driver and not being annoying. You
can put people in the car and they don't like
(14:30):
sort of like look at you strangely because your car's
really noisier, rides terribly. So we're going to go on
a highway on ramp right now, all right, Tony is
a master.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
There's some bumpy too, yeah, I mean, there's just no
lack of grip. And what's funny is there's you know,
two thirds, almost two thirds of the weight of the
car is in the front and you just don't notice it.
The car just grips and grips and grips and grips,
and that's the beauty of a sports It can do
almost everything that a sports car can do, but you
(15:05):
get all this comfort, and I think as if you
define sports dan in that way, this is a better
sports sedan than say the Civic type bar, which, like
you said, is more of a hot hatch.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So if we've toggled through the modes in the Civic
type bar, you get sort of a different gauge cluster.
You get like a track gauge cluster, and this one
you just get the two gauges, and they're virtual gauges.
I should mention it's when I'm looking at a display
of a tachometer and a spinometer. They could have made
real gauges, which I kind of prefer, but I'm getting
used to these digital gauges.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I prefer analog. Now we're back of mugs the UH.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And the power builds pretty linearly. There's not like a
big there's not a lot of turbo lag. It doesn't
you're not waiting for the turbo necessarily. It builds like
not quite like a naturally aspirated car, but certainly like.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
It's pretty linear.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it pulls pretty strong throughout. There's
no like surges, there's no like waiting for the power.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And it sounds good. It sounds refined. For you know,
turbocharge two liter four sounds pretty pretty ready and willing.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
If somebody said there's a two and a half liter
under the hood or the turbocharger, I would have no
reason to doubt them. It did turn out to be
a little bit slower than the.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Civic type AR.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I think the Civic type AR did sixty and four
to nine and this one did five to one. But
I don't think anyone's going to notice that different. Who
can tell no one, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And also, just generally speaking, acceleration is a war that's
been won, you know, by electrics, and acceleration is not
the achievement it used to be. It's more about to
me at least, and I think a lot of enthusiasts
more about the kind of feedback it car gives you.
(16:52):
You were talking about sports sedans and sports cars earlier.
To me, the definition of a sports sidan is a
vehicle that gives you a good deal of feedback and
feel sensitive and gives you information about what's happening at
the tires, gives you information about what's happening under the hood,
(17:15):
at the break calibers.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
They should be fun at every speed that's right. That
feedback makes the car entertaining and fun at every speed.
But you don't want so much feedback because race cars
have a lot of feedback. You don't want so much
feedback that it's annoying. You want just the right amount
and then in balance. And this car does the balance
thing really well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The way the steering feels, the way the brakes feel,
the way they accelerate, it's all in harmony, and it all.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Works really really well. I couldn't agree more. And I
think they really really nailed it. And all of those
little subtle refinements that are happening throughout this car, it's
down to somebody caring about them and somebody spending the
time and honing and tuning and getting those inputs harmonious.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
It takes a long time to dial a car in
like this and to get it this right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And at this price. I know, people say, well, you know,
it's fifty three thousand dollars, and that is it's a
lot of money. I mean it was a lot of money.
I mean the average price of.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
A new car was like, there's not much less than this.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I know, I think there's a tremendous amount of
value here relative to the Germans.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know what I'm noticing is you can see really
well out of this car. Yes, Like the A pillars
aren't that big, small, that thick. The side glass is big.
A lot of car companies like to chase building a
car that looks like a concept car. That's sort of
the Camaro's curse. It's a great look at car, but
then when you get in it, you can't see out
of it. This you can see everything. I can see
down the hood perfectly. The windshield is somewhat upright. It
(18:44):
feels like not an old car, like you said, but
it has touchstones of the past.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well, you know, there's that whole Honda philosophy of person
maximum machine minimum. These cars sort of disappear a little bit.
A court does that too. There's a lot of space inside,
there's great visibility out. That's always been a hon to Hallmark,
and it extends to the Accura here too, for sure,
no one.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It makes it just so wonderful and livable when you're
just commuting, when you're just driving around. But then you
throw this thing on a racetrack and it'll do it well.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think this drive really sort of encapsulates this car's
capabilities because we're driving around town and we're keeping out
of harm's way, and then you throw it into a
corner and it's like, oh my god, that preob.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then if you're bored, you just do what I've
been doing and just play with the shifter endlessly, just
going up and down the gears and having it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Why can they do this and nobody else can do
shifters as well?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't know, nobody cares about manuals anymore. Yeah, And
this is just magic, and it's short throws and it's
just I would never miss a gear.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's so perfectly damped. It never goes into the wrong slot.
It just feels so honed and tuned and right.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
And the clutch take up is predict yes, it's like
not heavy, it's not light. It catches predictably. It's just wonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
The best shifter I ever experienced was in the hot
S two thousand exactly. This is not too far off
far off.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, but it's also delicate at the same time, like
it's happy to you drive it, you know, with a
delicate hand. The Integra really manages the wheel spin like
you get basically no wheel spin because it's just maximizing
the amount of traction that the car has converts all
(20:34):
of that energy to the road instead of having a
bunch of like time robbing wheel spin. Yeah oh yeah, Yeah,
it just tucks up really nicely. And that's not easy
to do with a front wheel drive car with three
and twenty horsepower to get that magic right.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Cool, Well, here we are back at base. Okay, let's
take it in visually. Yeah, it's beefy looking. It is.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The fender flares. I think everything a pillar forward, so
that's the windshield. Pillar forward is unique to the type S.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yes, but that's it. Yeah, And it's wide. It looks
wide up front. The wheels are great. I mean it's
splitspoke wheels. Yeah, it's a wide wheel.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's a nine and a half inch wheel on a
with a two sixty five tire. That's a lot more
tire than they put on the regular Integra.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, that's why it hooks up so great.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It hooks up amazingly well. And the same in the back.
It's got a square set up and then they've got
the fender flaring back too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And so you can kind of see the bones of
the Civic under here, but it's pretty well masked it is.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It looks like a different car, and you don't have
the giant spoiler of the Type R. The Type S
just as a small carbon fiber lips spoiler. People that
know will not, but people that don't know aren't. It's
not going to get a second glance probably, but right
for people in the know, I mean, the fender flares
mean a lot, the three exhaust pipes mean a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And that's beefy from the back with that diffuser, and
I love a hatch, you know. It just increases the
utility of.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The car, oh totally, and the practicality just goes up,
goes up, goes up.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're back at our desks after that drive. That was
a fun one and I feel like I know a
lot more about the Integra Type best than I do
before we set out. Do you have any other questions
about it? I think I do, Eddie.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But there are some things that only those on the
inside can tell us about a car. So let's reach
out to accurate product planner Jonathan Rivers and maybe find
out what a product planner does too.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Okay, great, after the break, we'll talk to Jonathan. Welcome
back to car and drivers into cars. Thanks for being
with us, Jonathan. We're excited to talk about the integritypees today,
(23:06):
or as you call it, the its. I thought you
said IBS and I was like, I have that, yeah,
But before we get into the car, your job is
really cool. So what does a product planner do? Can
you explain that to our audience?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You know, it's a question I get asked quite a lot,
because you know, if you're not in the know or
in the industry, you actually don't know what we do.
And so I think the best way to kind of
dumb it down a little bit is we kind of
come up with the recipe for what a future vehicle
will be, and once we can get that approved, then
we're working together with the designers, the engineers, the production associates,
(23:45):
and ultimately like the sales and marketing folks to get
that in the customer's hands.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So you kind of scope out the mark and say
we need a vehicle here.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
At a high level.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yes, I mean it's quite detailed, right, because we're working
from the original concept of the vehicle all the way
through mass production, and so along the way we're looking
at like you said, market trends, you know, doing customer clinics,
focus groups, talking to the dealers, the media, trying to
get all kinds of insights as to, like you said,
what would be the best positioning for a new product,
(24:16):
but then really starting to get into the weeds with
what are the features, the technologies, what does it look like,
what are the colors?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
All these things.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Tony and I were talking earlier about kind of the
history of Accura and how it went from very sort
of bespoke engineering, high feature stuff to sort of Honda
plus in a way, you know, I mean to cast
no aspersions by saying that, in a sense, the Honda
stuff has gotten so good, where does Accura go from there?
(24:47):
But did you plan this alongside the civic type? Are
was there a crossing of the streams, if you will,
between Honda and Accura when it came time to you know,
plan civic the highest expression of civic, then a level
above it with Akira.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
So to maybe take a quick step back, I came
into the planning role back in twenty fifteen for Acura,
and yeah, I mean back then, Hey, I'll give you
a fair point. I mean the lineup was quite different.
I think the brand direction was quite different, and so
that was around when Essex was getting close to launch
and the brand kind of went back to its roots,
right with precision craft to performance and for all the
(25:25):
reasons you just mentioned, so that we weren't just viewed
as a Honda plus and that we did offer a
true alternative to Honda. So internally, it's not about being
better than Honda, but it's about just offering a different alternative.
In our case, it really is about leveraging the performance.
Because if you go back to eighty six when the
brand launched, when an Integra was there and obviously the
(25:49):
legend and then eventually INSX and things like that, that's
what Accura was known for. And so by us pivoting
back there, it really changed the entire brand, the marketing,
and then ultimately the product lineup. Different designers, different engineers,
They're built in different locations, so there's different production associates,
different product planners. I'm not the product planning pacific type are.
(26:12):
We had our own vision of what we wanted it
to be, all the while being aware of what this
other product was going to be too.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Jonathan, thank you for saving the manuals with this car,
By the way, how hard was it to convince people
within the company to only offer this car with a
manual transmission?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Well, it's funny because I have a car and driver
hashtag save the Manual's coffee cup.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's actually on my desk.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
So we get to do some stickers too.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
If you'd like some, please, I'll put them on my
laptop at work. So no, I mean, honestly, that question
is actually more relevant to the regular Integer, right, because
you know, once the regular Integra was developed and we
had already decided to put the six speed manual in
that car, putting it on something like a Type S
was a no brainer. And then kind of to Eddie's point,
(26:58):
you know, the fact that we were leverage some hardware
from Civic Type Are, well, we already had one of
the best manuals in the business. So yeah, no reason
not to put it into this car. And of course
we get asked questions all the time, why didn't you
make a DCT this or auto this?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
But that was my next question.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Well, I mean, to me, the answer is super easy.
We wanted the ultimate driver's car. We wanted a true enthusiast,
engaging driver's car, and not that you can't get that
with a DCT. But fundamentally, what we were trying to
do was create a very fun, engaging and really a
unique product in the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And some manufacturers offer manual, but the manual isn't that great.
And in this case, this is like one of the
greatest shifting cars. And this is consistent across Honda and
Accura from back in the sex days. So how do
you do it in like one hundred words or less?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, what's the secret? Sauce?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I was gonna say, you go make me give up
that recipe, right, And look, I'm not here to take
credit for everything. I'm clearly not the engineers that work
the magic and make these things happen. But what I
can say as being you know, someone I've been at
the company fourteen years, I've been here a while, and
I can say it's really just in our DNA and
like how we want the man machine to not just
(28:15):
be equal, it's got to be about the person that's
controlling the vehicle. And so when that's at the forefront
of how you engineer and how you think, it comes
through in the product itself. Because like you said, anybody
can make a transmission and you know, we can use
the same components and hardware, but it's the tuning and
the feeling. It's almost this kind of like raw notchiness
(28:37):
in the car that just it feels so good every
time you switch gears.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Right, But you also have to know, I mean the
engineers also have to know what's good. And with a
history like S two thousand, you've set the bar pretty high.
I've driven a lot of manuals, and it's like, what
other manuals have these engineers driven.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Well, it's funny because you know, as I sit here
and say, you know, I worked here for fourteen years,
many of our development engineers and other chief engineers they've
been here twenty five thirty years. So they are the
same guy that did the S two thousand transmission, right like,
or they were involved in that project. So a lot
of that prowess and that knowledge and that knowhow has
has stayed within the company and continues to trickle down today.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So other vehicles in this competitive set, like the OLDS
three or the bmw M two thirty five Grand Coupe,
they don't offer manuals. What were you benchmarking in this segment?
Maybe it was outside the segment. What sort of cars
were you driving and saying we need to beat that?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So and this is true.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I think for any product planner, right when we talk
about competitive sets, there can be different competitive sets depending
on where you're trying to benchmark. So I think when
you look at a total vehicle, like, okay, what's the
price point where it is in the segment? You know,
the cars that you just mentioned, the S three, the
M two thirty five I, the CLA thirty five, those
types of small premium sedan performance vehicles are a clear
(30:04):
kind of competitive set for this car. But yeah, I'll
be honest to say that we're obviously aware of, you know,
things like the golf are and other products that could
be cross shopped in that type of segment. With that said,
kind of going full circle back to you know why
we did the manual only is because again that makes
this car stand out in that segment. Again, there's clearly
people that want DCT, but you know, if they're looking
(30:26):
for a manual, they kind of have to come to us.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I have a question about the sound in the Type
S versus the Type R. Our sound level meter finds
virtually no difference between a Type S and a Type R.
But the human ear is not a sound level meters.
You know, why are they so different to our ears?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Really good question.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
I own an Integrat Type S and so I've now
obviously outside of the development, like I live with it now,
and so what I can say is that in the
Civic Type R, I feel like you get a lot
more induction noise, a lot more noise from the intake.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It almost feels like.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It's coming from the front of the vehicle. And I
love that because that's also just total Honda, right. It
just you know, rips and screams like the Hondas of
the eighties and the nineties exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's like an NSX thing. You just hear it inside
the car.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right, Whereas Integra Type BEST.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Not that you don't get some of those noises, but
one of the key development areas for the car was
the exhaust, and we wanted it to sound raw and aggressive,
and you know that's why it's got those you know,
berbals and pops and things like that. And so I
feel like you're getting a lot more of that coming
from the rear of the vehicle versus the intake and
(31:33):
induction noise from the front of the vehicle, and like
to your point, from maybe a pure decibel standpoint, they're
not different, but where the sounds coming from and what
you're hearing is quite different between the two.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Cars, Jonathan, I wanted to get back to something you
were saying. In evaluating and putting together the competitive set
for this car, most of those cars are all wheel drive,
and Accura has a great and evolving super handling all
wheel drive system. Was there any thought given to making
this at least optionally all wheel.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Drive from a development standpoint, No, But your point is valid.
You know, as we look across the segment, we recognize
that it's either optional its standard, and we also recognize
again there's a lot of people that just want it
because you know, if you're in inclement weather you've got
a ton of snow, that's obviously a thing. But at
the same time, knowing what our chassis was capable of,
(32:25):
knowing the platform that we were utilizing, it wouldn't have
made a lot of sense to try to tear that
up just to add an all will drive. Look, I
tell people, they'll go, hey, you know, because they say, oh,
the Integra type I should have been a manual and
should have been all will drive I go.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
We got a car like that. It's called the TLX it.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Rips Jonathan, you own an integer type S when you're
in it, is there one particular part of the car
that you're proud of that you worked on, that you
fought for.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oof, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
There's a lot, you know, I think, because you know,
the vehicle development is several years, right, so there's there's
a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
A lot of losses.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, blood, sweat and tears. But yeah, when
I drive it, I'm just happy it exists. And you know,
the acceleration is really strong. But this car is about
so much more than just sort of numbers or raw performance.
It's a little Miata like in that sense where it's
about driver feel and driver feedback.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
And did you have to fight for that? Did you
have to say, you know what, the numbers aren't important here? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
And again I feel like, you know, some customers are
enthusiasts in general.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They're so quick to write off cars.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
If de Zerto sixty is not three suconds and you know,
that's just not what this car is about. I tell
people all the time, I'm like, just get in it
and drive it and then come back and let me
know what you think. And there's just this joy, right,
there's this joy with like the connected feel. The steering
is a great way. The ergonomics are good, Like that's
very important. I think that gets overlooked a lot, Like
(33:51):
you know, are you sitting in the right position? Can
you heal and tow All these things kind of come
together with like the position, the steering way, the chassis balance,
The power's good, the sounds good.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
The audio is really good.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Like there's there's just all these things that kind of
accumulate together to create this really like awesome driving experience
that again, it just doesn't come through inspects and numbers.
And I know, moving forward, every va in the world
is going to be faster than this car in a
straight line, but it won't matter, Like this car will
still be special, right, And that's what we tried to create.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So you mentioned a little bit about the exhaust system.
Are the Honda folks envious of the Accura's exhaust And
is that because the Accura is basically just for our
market and so you could get away with a little
bit larder exhaust.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, you nailed it on the head. So the Civic
Type are being a global product and having to adhere
to other stricter sound regulations, particular in Europe, and that
did at some level limit maybe what they could do.
But at the same time, you know, here's a little
side story. Early on in development, I actually owned a
Focus RS.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Oh great car.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, it was fun. It was a good car.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Did you swap out the dampers?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I wanted to?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
That was way too So that's one of the stiffest
cars ever.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
And then it had a button to make it even stifferent, right,
Like it was like, who does that?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
So, but I tell you what I bought that car.
Admittedly I had a very ulterior motive, right, and it
was to push our development engineers. I actually gave the
chief engineer the Integra type ass. He came out to
La We're early on in development. I said, hey, take
this car for a spin, you know, I just got this.
And he came back and he's like laughing. He goes,
he goes, what kind of exhaust did you put on this?
(35:33):
I go, nope, that's factory I go, this is what
it's He was in complete disbelief, but that really changed
some things. He went back to Japan, and you know,
then they started benchmarking that and like the M two
and all these cars that have these burbos and crackles,
and they're like, this is what people like.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And I'm like, yes to me, there's such a great
refinement in the ride on the its and that's a
dark art And how did you figure that out?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Well?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
It was funny because you know, like I said about
just the overall planning of this versus something like the
civic type bar, we knew what direction they were going in,
and not that it's a bad direction at all, Like
that car is what it is. It's meant for track.
It's got the crazy bucket seats for track. It's got
the very stiff yet compliant, you know, suspension set up
for track duty. And so we knew our concept was
(36:25):
to be this ultimate canyon carving like street performer. So
for us, it was about how do we like make
this car livable on a daily basis, but yet still
be totally capable of handling like Mulholland or you know,
the Ortega Highway or just some crazy canyon blast. Right,
Could you take any one of our type best models
(36:46):
to the track?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, you could.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
That's why they got big brimbo breaks. You know, they've
got summer tires, they've got turbo engines and lots of power.
We knew the buyer was going to be maybe a
little bit older, maybe has some kids. Maybe you want
to use it, you know, take real usage of that,
like extra utility, and so we knew you couldn't have
this ultra stiff suspension setting, right.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, we sort of see him as under forty over forty. Well,
I know what camp I'm in, Yeah, exactly. Likewise, thanks
for giving me away, Tony. Yeah, I'm just a little
bit about yourself. What was a dreamcar when you were
growing up.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I'm from Michigan, so I loved like a Dodge Viper
Man those like a Dodge Viper GTS the blue with
the white racing stripes, like I had that poster on
my wall growing up. But I tell you what for me,
when I was eighteen, that was the first time I
learned to really drive stick shift And it was on
my cousin's nineteen ninety eight accurate Integra GSR Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
It was total nineties.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
That dark green you know what I've talked about, that
dark green with beige interior. But you know, I had
tried to drive some of my friends like fox Body
Mustangs and some Camaros that you know, were manuals and Italy.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
I wasn't very good at it. I was stalling.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
It was just it wasn't fun, right, And so then finally, I,
you know, my cousin was crazy enough to let me
drive his car. And okay, I struggle at the beginning,
but after five minutes, all of a sudden, it became
fun and I loved it, and yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I was sold after that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And then got to ask this question, what was your
first car? Oh?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Does anyone ever want to say that? Let alad on
a podcast with a car and driver. But you can
you decline to answer if you want, no, no, I'll say
it was a Mercury Cougar.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I tried to spice it up as much as I
put some wheels on it, whatever else.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But that was my first ride. So hey, there's worse.
People were excited about that when it came out.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It was a cool car? Was it was Monday oh coop?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah? Yeah, not a bad Verse car. Thank you so much, Jonathan.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It was so great to be with you and to
get your take on what really was happening behind the scenes.
So thank you for all that you do and thanks
for being with us.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah or he is a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Jonathan, Hey, thanks to both of you, thanks for having
us and yeah forward, we'll have to go for a
cruise Sunday, so absolutely we'll take you about that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That interview was brought to you by Ebaymotors. Visit ebaymotors
dot com for more.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Car friends. Driving the Integer Type S is a lot
of fun, and that's exactly what a Sportsidan should be.
It should have a high percentage of amusement, but it
should also be a car that you want to drive
daily and something that won't make your passengers uncomfortable. For
our money, the Type S nails the sports Adan brief.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
For a front driver with a four cylinder. This thing
is the real deal. It honors the legacy of the
Integral while pushing things forward in a cool and modern way. Hell,
I'd buy one.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
For more on the accurate Integra Type S, visit carent
driver dot com and be sure to pick up the
latest issue of Car and Driver magazine.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Car
and Drivers Into Cars.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And be sure to tune into next week's episode where
we drive two BMW five series Sedan's the all electric
I five M sixty and see how it compares to
the gas powered five IX. It's going to be the
gas versus electric showdown you won't want to miss. Let's
still a quick launch, okay, O hard I love fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
You know humans weren't engineered to go accelerate that gig.
If you enjoy the show, join us every week for
new episodes, and don't forget to rate and review wherever
you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Car and Drivers Into Cars is a production of Car
and Driver and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio. Our show is hosted
by Eddie Alterman and myself Tony Kiroga. Our executive producer
is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post Production is Matt Stillo.
Our supervising producer is Sierra Kaiser. This show was edited
by Sierra Spreen special thanks to our location sound recordist
Matthew Cisco. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Hello, and welcome to Car and Drivers Into Cars, a
podcast from iHeartMedia is Ruby Studio, brought to you by
eBay Motors. I'm Tony ki Roger, the editor in chief
of Car and Driver, and I'm joined by my co host,
former editor in chief and current Chief Brand and Content Officer,
Eddie Alterman, and together we're Into Cars.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Each episode of this podcast covers a new car that
we think is worthy of your attention. The cars we
select may feature a novel design, cutting edge engineering, or
something entirely new. We'll cover the stories behind the cars,
answering the whys and exploring the whats to bring you
into the experience. We'll drive the things and let you
listen in, and then we'll sit down with the people
(00:44):
who made the cars to answer your questions about them.
Come along for the ride and you'll hear it all
the good, the bad, and the ugly in the way
that only Car and Driver delivers.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Today, we're examining the state of the affordable sportsdan by
digging into the Accura Integra type. Closely related to the
Honda Civic type are the Integer typees goes its own
way by offering a more mature approach to performance. It's
also unique against its competition because it only comes with
the manual transmission. It follows the classic sport compact formula,
a powerful turbocharge force cylinder, front wheel drive, a manual transmission,
(01:18):
and a chansis built to handle.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Let's dig into this thing. You and I have both
driven it extensively on a variety of roads, and it's
really different feeling than the Civic Type R on which
it's based. And it's funny because when Acer came out
in the mid eighties with cars like the Legend that
(01:47):
was the first one, and then they did the NSX,
it was more than just Honda Plus, right, you know,
longitudinal front drive layouts. The Accura Vigor had the five
cylinder to go up against Audi. The NSX was obviously
everybody knows that's like the godhead supercar.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah, I mean it was a luxury and performance brand.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Right exactly.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
And there was so much value and content in these
things because the end was so strong. But now we
have an Accura with perfectly nice cars TLX, MDX, RDX
and this Integra Type S, but they're alsort of Honda Plus.
Speaker 1 (02:29):
However, Yeah, this one's pretty special, and you could think
of it as being a Honda Plus almost because it's
so closely related to the Civic type bar. But it
really goes its own way. Like you said, as soon
as you get into it, you realize it's just a
more mature car. The Civic type bars for under forty
and the Integra is for people over forty. So I mean,
(02:50):
if you've got hair growing out of your ears and
it's falling out of your head, that's exactly the one
you'll pick. And if you have hair on your head
and none in your ears, you all for the Civic typear.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Right. The Civic type bar is a hot hatch. The
Integret type is a sport sedan, right that happens to
have a hatchback. But yeah, it's not the same thing.
It doesn't have the ridiculous wing, it doesn't look as crazy.
Yes it has fender flares, but it's something only somebody
in the know would necessarily notice, so you fly under
the radar. And it also makes a really lovely daily driver.
Accurate tuned it so that the suspension is just a
(03:20):
little bit softer on rebound, so you don't feel those
impacts as hard as frenetic. Yeah, it's not as like
high strung as the CTR.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
But then you don't lose any of the great stuff.
You don't lose any of the fun of the powertrain.
You still have that same wonderful manual transmission, which is
one of the best since like the S two thousand.
I mean, it's a spectacular manual transmission and you get
five bonus horsepower. Oh nice, and it sounds better. I
think it does. It does sound better.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Yeah, But you know the Civic type are the interior
is so gautty. I mean it looks like a vape
shop in there. And this is really pretty refined and
nice and you know, great metallic surfaces and handles. And
the one I think real improvement on the INTI is
they went from the all titanium shift knob on the
Civic type bar to a leather rapped one so you
(04:05):
don't burn your hand.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
That's right, Yeah, I mean, because Accur is a luxury brand,
so you want to have that little strip. That little
ring of leather makes all the difference. But it really
actually does, because when it's incredibly hot out and the
sun's been beating down on your shifter, you get like
the Raiders of the Lost Arc style print in your hand.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
It's sort of the kind of car that isn't made
a lot these days. There is a competitive set for it,
which is like the BMW M two thirty five Grand
coupe and the Audi S three, which is around the
same horse power.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
And there is a cluster of these like three hundred
horsepower small sedans, but crucially, none of them have manual transmissions,
and they're all a lot heavier than the Accura as well.
They're all three to four to five hundre pounds heavier
because they're all have all wheel drive systems, which do
enable them to put up some pretty impressive performance numbers
when it comes to acceleration. But acceleration in everything. I
(04:58):
know that sounds crazy coming carent driver. You know, we
test everything in zero to sixty is so important to us,
but it's not everything. And the Accurate does a lot
of things that these other cars don't do because of
driver involvement. And it's just a lighter car, so it
feels more playful and it just feels like a slightly
less serious car.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
And I think that's the whole point of this thing.
It's not about the numbers. It truly returns great driver
feel great chansis feel great engine sounds, whereas the other
heavier cars feel a little dead and remote. By comparison,
I think only the Audi S three in that competitive
set has some of that playfulness. Maybe CT four V,
(05:35):
but as you said, those are more sort of grown up,
big boy cars.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Yeah, those cars all sort of want to be the
bigger cars in their lineup in some way. But the
Integra Type S doesn't at all. It doesn't want to
be a TLX. It's real happy being an Integra Type S.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah. And you know, there are a lot of fanboys,
Accura lovers, and if you go and bring a trailer,
you see crazy money being paid for old Integra and
they don't necessarily like that this thing has four doors
and that it's so expensive relative to the Civic type BR.
But man, it's really worth it. You have to drive it,
(06:11):
and it's what seven seventy one dollars more expensive than.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
It's not an insurmountable amount of money, And considering Civic
type bars all had a huge price gouging basically happening
at the dealer level. Maybe there's price parody. I don't know,
Maybe it's cheaper, yeah, exactly. You might find an accurate
dealer that's willing to sell it to you at sticker
versus a Honda dealer.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, that's right, Like the accurate dealer is trying to
get rid of this thing because it's you know, it's
kind of manal trans and like the MDX fires going
in there to the dealership going what what is this? Right?
Speaker 1 (06:41):
What is this crazy little thing? So it doesn't really
quite fit into the lineup, but it would have fit
into the lineup beautifully, as you pointed out in the nineties.
But I think Accurate sort of moving in that direction.
They brought the NSX out and that lasted until a
couple of years ago. So they do want performance, and
they really they seem to understand that performance is really part.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Of the Should we go drive it?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Yeah, let's go see what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, okay, here we are. You know now that we're
in the Integra type s to the earlier point about
Acura's just being hot. The plus now, the Hondas are
so good that if you plus them up a little bit,
(07:30):
they become sort of incredible.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Absolutely, And I mean one of the first seas you
noticed is it's just easier to get into because of
the seats over seas. Yeah, the bolsters aren't as big.
And then there's no red carpet. You can get different
interior colors in this car rather than than just the
red carpet and the red front seats.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
But the level of fit and finish is extraordinarily high,
and it's also true of the Honda. But it really
feels at home here.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
And the nice thing I mean ergonomically, you get a
volume knob, which is something Honda made a mistake of
getting away from for a while. You get automatic climate control,
you get a lot of luxury car bits to this.
You get heated seats, which I don't think you can
get in the Civic type Bar.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Well, I don't have a power seat on my side,
Oh you don't.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
A lot of Porsches don't have that. It's weight saving,
that's exactly right. And we got the hot audio in
this thing. Yeah, it's got the ELS system.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Do you know what ELS means?
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Yeah, it's Elliott Shiner El's he was the Steely Dan engineer.
Oh is that right? Yeah? The standard system in the
Civic Type Bar is a Bose system, So it also
has a good a pretty good sound system. Should we
get driving.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, let's get going, all right. See what this thing is?
All of us shifters so sweet? It is sweet. I
put on the rev match for you. Oh nice, because
you're an old man.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah exactly, And I'm an old man. That's why I
prefer the type s have I told you about the
law of conservation of hair, the law of conservation of mass, right, Okay,
So any hair you lose on your body ends up
growing somewhere else. So I've lost a lot of hair
on the top of my head, and I've noticed it's
really coming into my ears. So this is really the type,
(09:06):
as I think, is the car for guys who have
some ear hair.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, mine has migrated from the top of my head
to my back.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Exactly. Love conservation of hair.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
I like that. Love conservators there you can either create
nor destroy hair.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
Right, Yes, it just comes out somewhere else.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
The ride doesn't beat you up.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
No, it's immediately apparent that it's not the jittery, taffeinated ride.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, pacific type of like I'm a sports car. I'm exciting.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
I'm going to show you.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah exactly, that's that's not what's happening here at all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
And they did that by relaxing the rebound damping.
Speaker 1 (09:44):
Yeah, and it has it has multi mode, so you
can still kick it up to a pretty stiff ride.
But in the Honda on Track, when I drove that
at VIR at Virginia International Raceway, I dialed it back
because any rode and he like bumps on the track
like unsettled the car, and I just wanted that much
more compliance. But with this car, they were actually able
to run it in the stiffer modes because the stiffer
(10:05):
modes sort of align with the softer modes in the
Civic Wild.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
But that said, the Civic is, Oh that sounds great now,
I noticed a little torque steer.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, it's definitely from wheel drive. This isn't the most
like even surface, so you'll get a little bit of
a tug. But I mean it does have three hundred
twenty horsepower, so there's a lot of power going through
the front wheels. And it has the dual access struts
which are sort of like GM's hyperstrut.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Or forty knuckle separating the steering end the.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Steering from the strut, and it just it just improves
the wheel geometry and eliminates some of that torque steer.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And this has a front limited slip.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
To yeah, it's got a helical front limited slip, so
that basically allows power to go to the wheel that
needs it most. I didn't get to drive this car
on track, but I drove the Civic type bar on track,
and unlike most front wheel drive cars where you have
to be patient and wait and wait and wait to
put the power down, you could just stop it and
then the magical dift like just figured it out, no worries,
(11:09):
no problem. It was really, really, really an amazing thing.
And there's so much higher. It's two sixty five's all
the way around, so it's like a ridiculous I mean,
that was like a rear tire size on a nine
to eleven not that long, and you get four of
them here.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
So it's I think it pulls over a G, like
just over a G on the skid pad. So our
skid pad test is a large circle and we basically
test how long the car hangs onto the ground and
it pulls over a G. So it's basically your weight
being pulled left or to the right. It's pretty amazing
that a car does.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
That one gravity. Oh nice maneuver, sir, that was a
good piece of driving.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
We're driving on public roads.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yes, and love being Annaburm, Michigan. I also have a theory,
not unlike your hair conservation theory, which is the more
intellectuals you have in a city, the worse the driving
will be. Yes, and Boston is my kind of proof
of interest there. Oh yeah, that shifter is so sweet.
(12:12):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
We talked about it before. But just this little piece
of leather here makes all the difference.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Look, it's got this little ultra suede booty, this Alcantara
style booty. That's a cool little touch. And I'm not
feeling like I'm in a Honda.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
No, it's much quieter just going down the road. And
in our testing the sound level meter didn't really pick
up a difference. It's seventy miles an hour. They were
both the same amount of sound. They were both seventy
three decibels. It's just the quality of sound character so
much better. You don't get all the tire noise, you
don't get very much wind rush, you don't get any
engine drone. Really, it's really it's the adult version of
(12:49):
the platform.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
There's a lot more sound deadening for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
And it doesn't really weigh that much more either. It
weighs like thirty or forty or fifty pounds more than
the Civic Type bar, so it's not like you're putting
on this huge weight gain. It's not like a Lincoln
town Car style sound deadening experience either.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, how much does the Civic Type are wing way?
Speaker 1 (13:09):
But yeah, the lightweight of this car is really what
makes I mean, to me, what makes it and the
Civic Type are really special.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
It's got sort of, I don't want to say, a
retro feel, but it does feel unlike a lot of
cars now that feel very heavy and plodding and sort
of clamp over the road. This thing is just light
on its feet. It dances around.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
And there aren't a lot of cars left like that,
I know. I mean, even it's competition, they all weigh
a lot more because of their all wheel drive systems,
and they all sort of aspire to be a car
that they a larger car or a more refined car.
This car sort of is happy being the kind of
car that it is.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, and it's it's playful and it's not I mean,
I just find myself gravitating towards smaller cars nowadays because
everything has you know, so much extra mass, and the
steering is so dead on so many cars now with
you know, electric power assist instead of hydraulic assists, and
(14:10):
there's a numbing effect that's happened on a lot of cars.
And this is a rare sort of car that's both
very alive but also subdued when it needs to be.
It's not always a band faced totally totally of like
being a great daily driver and not being annoying. You
can put people in the car and they don't like
(14:30):
sort of like look at you strangely because your car's
really noisier, rides terribly. So we're going to go on
a highway on ramp right now, all right, Tony is
a master.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
There's some bumpy too, yeah, I mean, there's just no
lack of grip. And what's funny is there's you know,
two thirds, almost two thirds of the weight of the
car is in the front and you just don't notice it.
The car just grips and grips and grips and grips,
and that's the beauty of a sports It can do
almost everything that a sports car can do, but you
(15:05):
get all this comfort, and I think as if you
define sports dan in that way, this is a better
sports sedan than say the Civic type bar, which, like
you said, is more of a hot hatch.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
So if we've toggled through the modes in the Civic
type bar, you get sort of a different gauge cluster.
You get like a track gauge cluster, and this one
you just get the two gauges, and they're virtual gauges.
I should mention it's when I'm looking at a display
of a tachometer and a spinometer. They could have made
real gauges, which I kind of prefer, but I'm getting
used to these digital gauges.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I prefer analog. Now we're back of mugs the UH.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And the power builds pretty linearly. There's not like a
big there's not a lot of turbo lag. It doesn't
you're not waiting for the turbo necessarily. It builds like
not quite like a naturally aspirated car, but certainly like.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
It's pretty linear.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it pulls pretty strong throughout. There's
no like surges, there's no like waiting for the power.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
And it sounds good. It sounds refined. For you know,
turbocharge two liter four sounds pretty pretty ready and willing.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
If somebody said there's a two and a half liter
under the hood or the turbocharger, I would have no
reason to doubt them. It did turn out to be
a little bit slower than the.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Civic type AR.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
I think the Civic type AR did sixty and four
to nine and this one did five to one. But
I don't think anyone's going to notice that different. Who
can tell no one, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
And also, just generally speaking, acceleration is a war that's
been won, you know, by electrics, and acceleration is not
the achievement it used to be. It's more about to
me at least, and I think a lot of enthusiasts
more about the kind of feedback it car gives you.
(16:52):
You were talking about sports sedans and sports cars earlier.
To me, the definition of a sports sidan is a
vehicle that gives you a good deal of feedback and
feel sensitive and gives you information about what's happening at
the tires, gives you information about what's happening under the hood,
(17:15):
at the break calibers.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
They should be fun at every speed that's right. That
feedback makes the car entertaining and fun at every speed.
But you don't want so much feedback because race cars
have a lot of feedback. You don't want so much
feedback that it's annoying. You want just the right amount
and then in balance. And this car does the balance
thing really well.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
The way the steering feels, the way the brakes feel,
the way they accelerate, it's all in harmony, and it all.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Works really really well. I couldn't agree more. And I
think they really really nailed it. And all of those
little subtle refinements that are happening throughout this car, it's
down to somebody caring about them and somebody spending the
time and honing and tuning and getting those inputs harmonious.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
It takes a long time to dial a car in
like this and to get it this right.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
And at this price. I know, people say, well, you know,
it's fifty three thousand dollars, and that is it's a
lot of money. I mean it was a lot of money.
I mean the average price of.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
A new car was like, there's not much less than this.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Yeah, I know, I think there's a tremendous amount of
value here relative to the Germans.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
You know what I'm noticing is you can see really
well out of this car. Yes, Like the A pillars
aren't that big, small, that thick. The side glass is big.
A lot of car companies like to chase building a
car that looks like a concept car. That's sort of
the Camaro's curse. It's a great look at car, but
then when you get in it, you can't see out
of it. This you can see everything. I can see
down the hood perfectly. The windshield is somewhat upright. It
(18:44):
feels like not an old car, like you said, but
it has touchstones of the past.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Well, you know, there's that whole Honda philosophy of person
maximum machine minimum. These cars sort of disappear a little bit.
A court does that too. There's a lot of space inside,
there's great visibility out. That's always been a hon to Hallmark,
and it extends to the Accura here too, for sure,
no one.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
It makes it just so wonderful and livable when you're
just commuting, when you're just driving around. But then you
throw this thing on a racetrack and it'll do it well.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
I think this drive really sort of encapsulates this car's
capabilities because we're driving around town and we're keeping out
of harm's way, and then you throw it into a
corner and it's like, oh my god, that preob.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
And then if you're bored, you just do what I've
been doing and just play with the shifter endlessly, just
going up and down the gears and having it.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Why can they do this and nobody else can do
shifters as well?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
I don't know, nobody cares about manuals anymore. Yeah, And
this is just magic, and it's short throws and it's
just I would never miss a gear.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
It's so perfectly damped. It never goes into the wrong slot.
It just feels so honed and tuned and right.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
And the clutch take up is predict yes, it's like
not heavy, it's not light. It catches predictably. It's just wonderful.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
The best shifter I ever experienced was in the hot
S two thousand exactly. This is not too far off
far off.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, but it's also delicate at the same time, like
it's happy to you drive it, you know, with a
delicate hand. The Integra really manages the wheel spin like
you get basically no wheel spin because it's just maximizing
the amount of traction that the car has converts all
(20:34):
of that energy to the road instead of having a
bunch of like time robbing wheel spin. Yeah oh yeah, Yeah,
it just tucks up really nicely. And that's not easy
to do with a front wheel drive car with three
and twenty horsepower to get that magic right.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Cool, Well, here we are back at base. Okay, let's
take it in visually. Yeah, it's beefy looking. It is.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
The fender flares. I think everything a pillar forward, so
that's the windshield. Pillar forward is unique to the type S.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yes, but that's it. Yeah, And it's wide. It looks
wide up front. The wheels are great. I mean it's
splitspoke wheels. Yeah, it's a wide wheel.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
It's a nine and a half inch wheel on a
with a two sixty five tire. That's a lot more
tire than they put on the regular Integra.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, that's why it hooks up so great.
Speaker 1 (21:39):
It hooks up amazingly well. And the same in the back.
It's got a square set up and then they've got
the fender flaring back too.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
And so you can kind of see the bones of
the Civic under here, but it's pretty well masked it is.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
It looks like a different car, and you don't have
the giant spoiler of the Type R. The Type S
just as a small carbon fiber lips spoiler. People that
know will not, but people that don't know aren't. It's
not going to get a second glance probably, but right
for people in the know, I mean, the fender flares
mean a lot, the three exhaust pipes mean a lot.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
And that's beefy from the back with that diffuser, and
I love a hatch, you know. It just increases the
utility of.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
The car, oh totally, and the practicality just goes up,
goes up, goes up.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
We're back at our desks after that drive. That was
a fun one and I feel like I know a
lot more about the Integra Type best than I do
before we set out. Do you have any other questions
about it? I think I do, Eddie.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
But there are some things that only those on the
inside can tell us about a car. So let's reach
out to accurate product planner Jonathan Rivers and maybe find
out what a product planner does too.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Okay, great, after the break, we'll talk to Jonathan. Welcome
back to car and drivers into cars. Thanks for being
with us, Jonathan. We're excited to talk about the integritypees today,
(23:06):
or as you call it, the its. I thought you
said IBS and I was like, I have that, yeah,
But before we get into the car, your job is
really cool. So what does a product planner do? Can
you explain that to our audience?
Speaker 3 (23:20):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
You know, it's a question I get asked quite a lot,
because you know, if you're not in the know or
in the industry, you actually don't know what we do.
And so I think the best way to kind of
dumb it down a little bit is we kind of
come up with the recipe for what a future vehicle
will be, and once we can get that approved, then
we're working together with the designers, the engineers, the production associates,
(23:45):
and ultimately like the sales and marketing folks to get
that in the customer's hands.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So you kind of scope out the mark and say
we need a vehicle here.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
At a high level.
Speaker 4 (23:55):
Yes, I mean it's quite detailed, right, because we're working
from the original concept of the vehicle all the way
through mass production, and so along the way we're looking
at like you said, market trends, you know, doing customer clinics,
focus groups, talking to the dealers, the media, trying to
get all kinds of insights as to, like you said,
what would be the best positioning for a new product,
(24:16):
but then really starting to get into the weeds with
what are the features, the technologies, what does it look like,
what are the colors?
Speaker 3 (24:22):
All these things.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Tony and I were talking earlier about kind of the
history of Accura and how it went from very sort
of bespoke engineering, high feature stuff to sort of Honda
plus in a way, you know, I mean to cast
no aspersions by saying that, in a sense, the Honda
stuff has gotten so good, where does Accura go from there?
(24:47):
But did you plan this alongside the civic type? Are
was there a crossing of the streams, if you will,
between Honda and Accura when it came time to you know,
plan civic the highest expression of civic, then a level
above it with Akira.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
So to maybe take a quick step back, I came
into the planning role back in twenty fifteen for Acura,
and yeah, I mean back then, Hey, I'll give you
a fair point. I mean the lineup was quite different.
I think the brand direction was quite different, and so
that was around when Essex was getting close to launch
and the brand kind of went back to its roots,
right with precision craft to performance and for all the
(25:25):
reasons you just mentioned, so that we weren't just viewed
as a Honda plus and that we did offer a
true alternative to Honda. So internally, it's not about being
better than Honda, but it's about just offering a different alternative.
In our case, it really is about leveraging the performance.
Because if you go back to eighty six when the
brand launched, when an Integra was there and obviously the
(25:49):
legend and then eventually INSX and things like that, that's
what Accura was known for. And so by us pivoting
back there, it really changed the entire brand, the marketing,
and then ultimately the product lineup. Different designers, different engineers,
They're built in different locations, so there's different production associates,
different product planners. I'm not the product planning pacific type are.
(26:12):
We had our own vision of what we wanted it
to be, all the while being aware of what this
other product was going to be too.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Jonathan, thank you for saving the manuals with this car,
By the way, how hard was it to convince people
within the company to only offer this car with a
manual transmission?
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Well, it's funny because I have a car and driver
hashtag save the Manual's coffee cup.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
It's actually on my desk.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
So we get to do some stickers too.
Speaker 4 (26:36):
If you'd like some, please, I'll put them on my
laptop at work. So no, I mean, honestly, that question
is actually more relevant to the regular Integer, right, because
you know, once the regular Integra was developed and we
had already decided to put the six speed manual in
that car, putting it on something like a Type S
was a no brainer. And then kind of to Eddie's point,
(26:58):
you know, the fact that we were leverage some hardware
from Civic Type Are, well, we already had one of
the best manuals in the business. So yeah, no reason
not to put it into this car. And of course
we get asked questions all the time, why didn't you
make a DCT this or auto this?
Speaker 1 (27:12):
But that was my next question.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
Well, I mean, to me, the answer is super easy.
We wanted the ultimate driver's car. We wanted a true enthusiast,
engaging driver's car, and not that you can't get that
with a DCT. But fundamentally, what we were trying to
do was create a very fun, engaging and really a
unique product in the marketplace.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
And some manufacturers offer manual, but the manual isn't that great.
And in this case, this is like one of the
greatest shifting cars. And this is consistent across Honda and
Accura from back in the sex days. So how do
you do it in like one hundred words or less?
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Yeah, what's the secret? Sauce?
Speaker 4 (27:53):
I was gonna say, you go make me give up
that recipe, right, And look, I'm not here to take
credit for everything. I'm clearly not the engineers that work
the magic and make these things happen. But what I
can say as being you know, someone I've been at
the company fourteen years, I've been here a while, and
I can say it's really just in our DNA and
like how we want the man machine to not just
(28:15):
be equal, it's got to be about the person that's
controlling the vehicle. And so when that's at the forefront
of how you engineer and how you think, it comes
through in the product itself. Because like you said, anybody
can make a transmission and you know, we can use
the same components and hardware, but it's the tuning and
the feeling. It's almost this kind of like raw notchiness
(28:37):
in the car that just it feels so good every
time you switch gears.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Right, But you also have to know, I mean the
engineers also have to know what's good. And with a
history like S two thousand, you've set the bar pretty high.
I've driven a lot of manuals, and it's like, what
other manuals have these engineers driven.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Well, it's funny because you know, as I sit here
and say, you know, I worked here for fourteen years,
many of our development engineers and other chief engineers they've
been here twenty five thirty years. So they are the
same guy that did the S two thousand transmission, right like,
or they were involved in that project. So a lot
of that prowess and that knowledge and that knowhow has
has stayed within the company and continues to trickle down today.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
So other vehicles in this competitive set, like the OLDS
three or the bmw M two thirty five Grand Coupe,
they don't offer manuals. What were you benchmarking in this segment?
Maybe it was outside the segment. What sort of cars
were you driving and saying we need to beat that?
Speaker 3 (29:38):
So and this is true.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I think for any product planner, right when we talk
about competitive sets, there can be different competitive sets depending
on where you're trying to benchmark. So I think when
you look at a total vehicle, like, okay, what's the
price point where it is in the segment? You know,
the cars that you just mentioned, the S three, the
M two thirty five I, the CLA thirty five, those
types of small premium sedan performance vehicles are a clear
(30:04):
kind of competitive set for this car. But yeah, I'll
be honest to say that we're obviously aware of, you know,
things like the golf are and other products that could
be cross shopped in that type of segment. With that said,
kind of going full circle back to you know why
we did the manual only is because again that makes
this car stand out in that segment. Again, there's clearly
people that want DCT, but you know, if they're looking
(30:26):
for a manual, they kind of have to come to us.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
I have a question about the sound in the Type
S versus the Type R. Our sound level meter finds
virtually no difference between a Type S and a Type R.
But the human ear is not a sound level meters.
You know, why are they so different to our ears?
Speaker 3 (30:43):
Really good question.
Speaker 4 (30:44):
I own an Integrat Type S and so I've now
obviously outside of the development, like I live with it now,
and so what I can say is that in the
Civic Type R, I feel like you get a lot
more induction noise, a lot more noise from the intake.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
It almost feels like.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
It's coming from the front of the vehicle. And I
love that because that's also just total Honda, right. It
just you know, rips and screams like the Hondas of
the eighties and the nineties exactly.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
That's like an NSX thing. You just hear it inside
the car.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right, Whereas Integra Type BEST.
Speaker 4 (31:12):
Not that you don't get some of those noises, but
one of the key development areas for the car was
the exhaust, and we wanted it to sound raw and aggressive,
and you know that's why it's got those you know,
berbals and pops and things like that. And so I
feel like you're getting a lot more of that coming
from the rear of the vehicle versus the intake and
(31:33):
induction noise from the front of the vehicle, and like
to your point, from maybe a pure decibel standpoint, they're
not different, but where the sounds coming from and what
you're hearing is quite different between the two.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Cars, Jonathan, I wanted to get back to something you
were saying. In evaluating and putting together the competitive set
for this car, most of those cars are all wheel drive,
and Accura has a great and evolving super handling all
wheel drive system. Was there any thought given to making
this at least optionally all wheel.
Speaker 4 (32:04):
Drive from a development standpoint, No, But your point is valid.
You know, as we look across the segment, we recognize
that it's either optional its standard, and we also recognize
again there's a lot of people that just want it
because you know, if you're in inclement weather you've got
a ton of snow, that's obviously a thing. But at
the same time, knowing what our chassis was capable of,
(32:25):
knowing the platform that we were utilizing, it wouldn't have
made a lot of sense to try to tear that
up just to add an all will drive. Look, I
tell people, they'll go, hey, you know, because they say, oh,
the Integra type I should have been a manual and
should have been all will drive I go.
Speaker 3 (32:38):
We got a car like that. It's called the TLX it.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Rips Jonathan, you own an integer type S when you're
in it, is there one particular part of the car
that you're proud of that you worked on, that you
fought for.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Oof, that's a tough one.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
There's a lot, you know, I think, because you know,
the vehicle development is several years, right, so there's there's
a lot of ways.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
A lot of losses.
Speaker 4 (33:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, blood, sweat and tears. But yeah, when
I drive it, I'm just happy it exists. And you know,
the acceleration is really strong. But this car is about
so much more than just sort of numbers or raw performance.
It's a little Miata like in that sense where it's
about driver feel and driver feedback.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
And did you have to fight for that? Did you
have to say, you know what, the numbers aren't important here? Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (33:24):
And again I feel like, you know, some customers are
enthusiasts in general.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
They're so quick to write off cars.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
If de Zerto sixty is not three suconds and you know,
that's just not what this car is about. I tell
people all the time, I'm like, just get in it
and drive it and then come back and let me
know what you think. And there's just this joy, right,
there's this joy with like the connected feel. The steering
is a great way. The ergonomics are good, Like that's
very important. I think that gets overlooked a lot, Like
(33:51):
you know, are you sitting in the right position? Can
you heal and tow All these things kind of come
together with like the position, the steering way, the chassis balance,
The power's good, the sounds good.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
The audio is really good.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Like there's there's just all these things that kind of
accumulate together to create this really like awesome driving experience
that again, it just doesn't come through inspects and numbers.
And I know, moving forward, every va in the world
is going to be faster than this car in a
straight line, but it won't matter, Like this car will
still be special, right, And that's what we tried to create.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
So you mentioned a little bit about the exhaust system.
Are the Honda folks envious of the Accura's exhaust And
is that because the Accura is basically just for our
market and so you could get away with a little
bit larder exhaust.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Yeah, you nailed it on the head. So the Civic
Type are being a global product and having to adhere
to other stricter sound regulations, particular in Europe, and that
did at some level limit maybe what they could do.
But at the same time, you know, here's a little
side story. Early on in development, I actually owned a
Focus RS.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
Oh great car.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
Yeah, yeah, it was fun. It was a good car.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
Did you swap out the dampers?
Speaker 3 (35:04):
I wanted to?
Speaker 1 (35:05):
That was way too So that's one of the stiffest
cars ever.
Speaker 4 (35:09):
And then it had a button to make it even stifferent, right,
Like it was like, who does that?
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Right?
Speaker 4 (35:13):
So, but I tell you what I bought that car.
Admittedly I had a very ulterior motive, right, and it
was to push our development engineers. I actually gave the
chief engineer the Integra type ass. He came out to
La We're early on in development. I said, hey, take
this car for a spin, you know, I just got this.
And he came back and he's like laughing. He goes,
he goes, what kind of exhaust did you put on this?
(35:33):
I go, nope, that's factory I go, this is what
it's He was in complete disbelief, but that really changed
some things. He went back to Japan, and you know,
then they started benchmarking that and like the M two
and all these cars that have these burbos and crackles,
and they're like, this is what people like.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
And I'm like, yes to me, there's such a great
refinement in the ride on the its and that's a
dark art And how did you figure that out?
Speaker 3 (36:01):
Well?
Speaker 4 (36:02):
It was funny because you know, like I said about
just the overall planning of this versus something like the
civic type bar, we knew what direction they were going in,
and not that it's a bad direction at all, Like
that car is what it is. It's meant for track.
It's got the crazy bucket seats for track. It's got
the very stiff yet compliant, you know, suspension set up
for track duty. And so we knew our concept was
(36:25):
to be this ultimate canyon carving like street performer. So
for us, it was about how do we like make
this car livable on a daily basis, but yet still
be totally capable of handling like Mulholland or you know,
the Ortega Highway or just some crazy canyon blast. Right,
Could you take any one of our type best models
(36:46):
to the track?
Speaker 3 (36:47):
Yeah, you could.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
That's why they got big brimbo breaks. You know, they've
got summer tires, they've got turbo engines and lots of power.
We knew the buyer was going to be maybe a
little bit older, maybe has some kids. Maybe you want
to use it, you know, take real usage of that,
like extra utility, and so we knew you couldn't have
this ultra stiff suspension setting, right.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Yeah, we sort of see him as under forty over forty. Well,
I know what camp I'm in, Yeah, exactly. Likewise, thanks
for giving me away, Tony. Yeah, I'm just a little
bit about yourself. What was a dreamcar when you were
growing up.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
I'm from Michigan, so I loved like a Dodge Viper
Man those like a Dodge Viper GTS the blue with
the white racing stripes, like I had that poster on
my wall growing up. But I tell you what for me,
when I was eighteen, that was the first time I
learned to really drive stick shift And it was on
my cousin's nineteen ninety eight accurate Integra GSR Oh wow.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
It was total nineties.
Speaker 4 (37:43):
That dark green you know what I've talked about, that
dark green with beige interior. But you know, I had
tried to drive some of my friends like fox Body
Mustangs and some Camaros that you know, were manuals and Italy.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
I wasn't very good at it. I was stalling.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
It was just it wasn't fun, right, And so then finally, I,
you know, my cousin was crazy enough to let me
drive his car. And okay, I struggle at the beginning,
but after five minutes, all of a sudden, it became
fun and I loved it, and yeah, I was.
Speaker 3 (38:10):
I was sold after that.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
And then got to ask this question, what was your
first car? Oh?
Speaker 4 (38:16):
Does anyone ever want to say that? Let alad on
a podcast with a car and driver. But you can
you decline to answer if you want, no, no, I'll say
it was a Mercury Cougar.
Speaker 2 (38:28):
Hey.
Speaker 4 (38:28):
I tried to spice it up as much as I
put some wheels on it, whatever else.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
But that was my first ride. So hey, there's worse.
People were excited about that when it came out.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
It was a cool car? Was it was Monday oh coop?
Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah? Yeah, not a bad Verse car. Thank you so much, Jonathan.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
It was so great to be with you and to
get your take on what really was happening behind the scenes.
So thank you for all that you do and thanks
for being with us.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah or he is a pleasure talking to you.
Speaker 4 (38:55):
Jonathan, Hey, thanks to both of you, thanks for having
us and yeah forward, we'll have to go for a
cruise Sunday, so absolutely we'll take you about that.
Speaker 2 (39:06):
That interview was brought to you by Ebaymotors. Visit ebaymotors
dot com for more.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
Car friends. Driving the Integer Type S is a lot
of fun, and that's exactly what a Sportsidan should be.
It should have a high percentage of amusement, but it
should also be a car that you want to drive
daily and something that won't make your passengers uncomfortable. For
our money, the Type S nails the sports Adan brief.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
For a front driver with a four cylinder. This thing
is the real deal. It honors the legacy of the
Integral while pushing things forward in a cool and modern way. Hell,
I'd buy one.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
For more on the accurate Integra Type S, visit carent
driver dot com and be sure to pick up the
latest issue of Car and Driver magazine.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Thank you for joining us on this episode of Car
and Drivers Into Cars.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
And be sure to tune into next week's episode where
we drive two BMW five series Sedan's the all electric
I five M sixty and see how it compares to
the gas powered five IX. It's going to be the
gas versus electric showdown you won't want to miss. Let's
still a quick launch, okay, O hard I love fantastic.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
You know humans weren't engineered to go accelerate that gig.
If you enjoy the show, join us every week for
new episodes, and don't forget to rate and review wherever
you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Car and Drivers Into Cars is a production of Car
and Driver and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio. Our show is hosted
by Eddie Alterman and myself Tony Kiroga. Our executive producer
is Matt Romano. Our EP of Post Production is Matt Stillo.
Our supervising producer is Sierra Kaiser. This show was edited
by Sierra Spreen special thanks to our location sound recordist
Matthew Cisco. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time.
Hosts And Creators
Eddie Alterman
Tony Quiroga
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