June 26, 2024 • 57 mins
Giddy up, cowgirls! Time travel with us to the 1870s as we read famously problematic wife Elizabeth Bacon Custer’s book "Boots and Saddles." This historical ho spent her whole life writing books defending husband General Custer’s legacy…obsessed much?! We try to cover it all and talk about plover sandwiches, the Sioux tribe, beautiful fabrics, wartime pranks, rewriting history, making love in saloons, getting drunk on lamp oil, our boy Ulysses S. Grant, horse death, and generally being a freaking guy's girl.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, club kids, summer is upon us.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And summer is such a good time to slow down
and reconnect with your friends and make new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Pick up a seashell and smell it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Quietly, grill a hota.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Talk to your best friend for hours, go on a
beach walk.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This summer at CBC, we're doing what we call.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Every other Summer, where we'll be releasing a new episode
every other week on the main feed.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And the weeks that there is not a main feed episode,
that's when you're getting a vip loud.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You still get an episode every week, but just every
other week for main and VIP.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Do you get what we're talking You're saying, Hey, there
are no stupid questions if you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So, welcome to every other Summer. Slow down, take stock,
be here, now.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Take a sip listen every other Summer. Celebrity book Club, Libby,
thank you for joining me on this walk through downtown Bismarck.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What a sad town, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Aren't you from here?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Oh? What a rude thing for women of your statue
to say. But as we are wives of the planes,
we have little to do as we await our valiant
husbands return from their military campaigns against the Sioux and
other Indians.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I haven't seen my husband in six months, and can
I tell you a secret, Libby, I don't think I
care to see him ever again. Whenever he comes home,
he just takes to the cask.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I wouldn't really know much about that. My husband, General Custer,
commander of the seventh Cavalry. Well, he's just about the
healthiest fit and fiddle man I've ever met in my life,
never weary or wanting for a drink or even a
spot of plover at the end of the night, because
he's so fed by life himself.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's just funny. You say that, Libby, because one of
my husband's friends saw him drinking from a Worcestershire bottle.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Scoops or marry you tripped? How awful?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Ah, oh, Libby, I'm just I don't know to do
anymore these winters of the planes.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes, it's quite hard for you as a weak, pathetic woman.
You do sound very much like a horse. I need
to shoot Oh, just.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Shoot me out back, won't you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't you retire to this dismal hotel here in
this sad town. I'm going to go back to post
for I'm a strong woman, and I don't mind living
on the fort awaiting my husband.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh you're so strong to go out with those men.
It's almost like you want to be a soldier yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Libby, No, No, what a ridiculous thing for you to say.
It is only because I am so feminine and appropriately
by my husband's side that I don't mind being in
the fort.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's just interesting because I as a lady, even a
weak lady with disent, terry and one leg, it's become lame.
I would never go out with my husband onto the
fields and fight. It's just an unlady like.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, well, perhaps you should. Your face is so frightening
it would terrify the Indians into retreat. As you are
quite an ugly woman.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well father always said the ugly woman gets the goat,
and the goat who gets the husband prays away the
dysentery onwards. I'm going to check into my hotel because
I'll be honest, I have a cask in there. I'm
looking to supper.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, go lie down, your alcoholic bitch. Who's that knocking
at the door. It's all your friends, you filthy horse.
Your husband's gone and he've got books and a bottle
of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
I'm shurek memoir, It's Martini.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Celebrity poof club.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
To read it while it's hot.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Celebrity poof club. Tell your secrets.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We won't talk books. No boys are loud, say it
loud and pounds ceto clubs.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Spuzz me in. I brought the queer fow.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Hello best Hello, best friend.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
How is dar thou? Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I am mused quite well in fact, these days.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Mmmm, as the sun arises, I have to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
No, please don't, please don't. I can't bear any more
bad news.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's actually quite wonderful news. Okay, across the street from
our recording studio, I kid you not, a Kraffel cafe
has opened up.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is that a cross between a croissant and a waffle? Yes?
What is it? Twenty eleven?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know. I was like, we're just opening up craws.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Finally there's a Kraffels vitament out fly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I almost got a swamp.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was like, this is too did they look tasty air?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
They looked a little sitting there. The drinks looked like
crazy And you're actually gonna die for them because they're
all like London berry macha fogs. Oh, it's kind of
like a tea festival. I just got a cortado. But
and then the krawfels were kind of just like waffle
with like a pistachio glaze on them, and I was
like not dying for this crawfel.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So it looks like layered liquor croissant, and yet it
has the indentations of a waffle on the top.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I wanted it to look flakier. It just looked like
a waffle with a lot of toppings on it that
are like alternative.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, so right, that plays a tornado crap in my
neighborhood that has these nasty craps that have been sitting
in the window for ten years were supposed to be
made fresh. Yeah, and they're covering like chocolate and avocado,
just like I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
When crapes have avocado in them? No? Can I call
three one one?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know who else would have called three one one?
A lot? A lot?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Karen a clock and also who probably she she could
taste a crawfel.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
No, but she's down for the plover sandwhich is that
her maid makes are bustin'sn't a lesson?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yum yum yum.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We read a historic memoir by a historic figure.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Historic figure who had been canceled teeneyed today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think in many ways
calling her.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The Christineome of her generation.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Okay, she's not Christineome, though she likes the animals. She's
a murdered dog modern times.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Although see let's get into let's release the dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, so you know her from her husband, General Custer,
famous eighteen hundreds era general in the Silver War and
then later in the frontier campaigns against various and sundry Indian.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Tribes really tried to kind of like.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And did and did, and ultimately met his demise in
a famous battle called Little Big Horn and then also
known as Custard's.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Last Stand stand and what I've been calling Custard's Last
Custard's Last Stand, because while we were reading this book,
I passed a kind of old and timey ice cream
store called Custard's Last Stand hilarious, especially with a historical pun.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Now you might be thinking, Okay, Custer got it, but
wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Hold on, Yeah, he died right, okay, yeah, before.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
He could really write his memoirs. He was young, in
his thirties. But his wife, Mama, oh, she wrote, and
he didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Let her write while he was alive, And when he died,
she said, I'm putting them to paper, and I'm going
to write only about my totally problematic.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Husband, my husband who I'm obsessed with, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Going to kind of make a propaganda about him for
like my entire life.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So that's what she did. And this is the first
of her books. It's called Boots and Saddles by none
other than Elizabeth Bacon Custer, also known as Libby. It's
a big Custer.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Something about the name, like Libby is already so scary.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Because like, you're Libby is definitely like getting you in
trouble for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and she's like, ha, I'm Libby. Yeah, you're like, oh,
you're telling and it's like she's pissed, big smile, Yeah,
big smile. The church fair.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, No, she's absolutely telling your dad that she saw
you drinking the parking lot. The cover of my book
is sort of cipio tone photo. We got Custer on
the left and she's on the right. He's very like
indie guy, mustache, hair sweep back.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
His vibe is also he looks exactly like one of
the witnesses in My cousin.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Finny, you haven't insect with pedagnology. I no, you don't share,
but okay, he is just.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
For like in photos with him, like he looks very
even though like throughout this entire book we'll get into
she talks about like cow Insanley sexy and healthy he is.
He looks more like frail Beverly Hillbilding.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Let me editor's notes in this, because there's a note
at one point where she's once again talking about how
like muscular and gorgeous and studying the cavalry is and
like they're all the hottest prime specimens of human forms
so built, And then there's an editor's note that's just
like autopsies did later show that a lot of the
cavalry was like absolutely like destroyed by their time of
(09:37):
the planes and like they had like bad hips from
just like being in the saddle all the time. Just
like we're obviously riddled with like gunshot wounds and arrow wounds,
and like they were like brittle bones and we're just like.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So tiny little bones that are being broken, and she'll
be like the Sioux tribe, well, all their hands were
so weak because they didn't do any manual labor. On
the other hand, my husband was huge and.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Strong, rippling muscles like glinted in the late afternoon sun.
I'm my girl.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There was photography with starting at that era. It's like
the proof is in the vintage pudding, like he was
not like huge. The cover of this book is very
like go to a amusement park and get a saloon photo.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yes, it's evoking what it should, which is the past.
She's kind of looking directly at camera with this kind
of slightly like smarmy smirk on her face, just being like, yeah, damned,
that's right, baggedam what jealous you should be? Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And she's doing like two braids it looks like. And
she's wearing this kind of like heavy, almost like washed
waxed cotton dress in a barbour type of way.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I don't think it's as like waxy and thick as
you're imagining from this like grainy photo. I don't think
it's a barber jacket of a dress. I bet it's
like linen in like pretty lightweight.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's not Lina. She's not wearing a wax dress, okay,
but maybe it's like heavy cotton.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Although, as we find out from this book, well a
the flannel where she like stupidly makes this red flannel
that's like visible from like across the plains and gives
away their position to the Indians, and then she's just like, well,
stupid woman, so stupid. They're like, oh, Libby, you're so
dumb for making your red flannel shirts for us that
we're not going to wear. But she is like, the
(11:35):
weather in the planes can be really all over the place.
Oh my god, sometimes it's so cold, and then sometimes
it's actually really it's actually really hot.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
The winters in the plains and the Dakotas can be
really awful.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
But we start out this quite detailed.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
This book is very like this is about Custro, Like
we just kind of like get right into their marriage,
like he visits, they marry.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, and like it sounds like they're fucking. She has
some euphemisms where she's like, we spent three glorious weeks
together in Virginia while he was waiting his assignment.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, she says the phrase, but not about them making
love once in this book.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Oh when they all like are fucking in the fields
of Memphis. Yes, we're seems crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I can pull that up. But it's like they're
on like this you know, big war trip as I.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Call it, big war trip. They do be marching and
making camp et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And they get back and she's like, oh, all the
infantry men like went to the saloon and they all
got to like make love with all these women in Memphis,
and like her vibe is very like she's kind of
acts like she's the only one who's married. And it's
because she they go in their honeymoon and he's like,
I have to go to war, and she's like, can
(12:50):
I please come?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, the whole time she's been like waait I want
to come.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I want to come. It's so boys trip with the
girls like wait, can I go?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Constantly and like all the other wives are always being.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Like girl, we're staying back.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, like girl, I'm not trying to go just like
be murdered like in a war. And she's just like,
but wait, my husband think he needs me, and he's
like so hot. Okay, But here's the like fucking in
the field section. Steamers are ready for us at Memphis,
and we went thither by rail to embark. When the
regiment was gathered together after separation of two years, there
were hearty greetings, so it's like they're kind of part
(13:25):
of the regiment's meaning, rest of the measurement, et cetera.
And exchanges of troubulous or droll experiences, and thankful once
more to be reunited. We entered again, heart and soul,
into the minutest detail of one of mother's lives. We
went into camp for a few days in the outskirts
of Memphis and exchange hospitalities with the citizens. The bachelors
found an elysium in this society of many very pretty girls,
(13:45):
and love making went on either in luxurious parlors or
in the open air as they rode in the warm
spring weather to and from our camp.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Straight up like on horses and the workman air. It
sounds like this crazy buch and all.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
So there's these luxurious like parlors and brothels of Memphis,
and then there's just like fields and like all the
local Memphis townswomen are just like fucking all these soldiers
and it's a fuck fest.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I mean, I think it's very like May West movies
or like any Western where the men go into the
saloon and then all the women have rooms upstairs.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Right, and they're all on the balcony and they're like
seven petticoats and lifting up all the dresses.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So many heavy dresses that they're lifting up, but they're
weak arms.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But yeah, I mean she established herself very quickly as
this kind of like you know, anti woke girl boss
who's not like other girls. And there's this kind of
tension I think in the whole book of her being
like I'm so feminine, I'm so like my husband's accessory.
I do what he wants, I go where he goes,
and yet also being just like actually like I am
(14:52):
this like strong frontiers woman and like I do know
about stuff and I'm not afraid to like be in
the cabin with him, and like the other girls are
like so like pathetic and like listeners, like going to
the hotel in the town, I'm not going there.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That's where I was like, it is kind of like
right she walks, so Sarah Palin could run where it
is this thing where it's like I am the ultimate
wife and like fam but also like absolutely I have
guns and I can handle a Bismarck Winter.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Okay, I think she's less Sarah Palin and like a
little bit more like modern indie girls that we maybe know,
but like cause Sarah Palin is being like I shot
a beer from a helicopter or whatever. Oh, she the
whole time is pretending that she's like not doing that,
Like she's like downplaying all of her like strength even
(15:37):
though while she's like revealing them in her writing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I guess I think she's more just like red Scared
Dimes square.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like one hundred percent who she's just like I love
like going upstate and like my husband's friends are.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Like so cool.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
They're so cool and like I don't need to hang
out with them, and I have no idea what they're
talking about when they get together. They're so random, and
they like have jobs but also chop would but whatever,
Like I'm like reading books and writing letters and like
taking care of my home. But also girls are weird
and so sad. They're so competitive and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And she was like literally no female friends in the moment,
like yeah, she does make a female friend, like this
woman who gets married three times?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
This was Annie, like the girl but who was also
called Old Nash, who was then later crushed by a
subway in New York City in nineteen fourteen.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And she does feel bad for she's like gossiping being
like wait, it's actually so sad, like her husband like
ran away with all of her money. Isn't that so sad?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
This is what I'm saying, Like this is so just
like girl who has no other friends or were girls,
and it's the only talking shit about them, Whereas like
Sarah Palin has just been like me and my five
girlfriends get together, get wine once a year and we
all have a sauvigny old blanc.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah and like shardonay and maybe a little sangria thinking
about and like Libby is so like sober and proud
of it. Yeah, it's so annoying. And she's always been like, oh,
these bums came to our house and like I made
my servant like give them like a little bit of
oil lamp to keep them like wasted.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Wait, well okay, well this is them that was like
this is crazy blizzard Dom and she's in this cabin
and then these like soldiers like who happened to be
out like find their blizzard cabin and they come in.
She's like, we had all this whiskey, because whiskey was
something you drank when you were like sick, but you like,
oh no, they didn't have they didn't you drank whiskey
(17:30):
when you were sick. But her husband was so healthy
that he never got He.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Literally never got sick, and they never needed whisky.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
She's literally constantly mentioning, like how he's so so healthy.
The frozen men were in so exhausted a condition that
they required immediate attention. Their sufferings were intense, and I
could not forgive myself for not having something with which
to revive them. The general never tasted liquor, and we
were both so well always we did not even keep
(17:58):
it for using of sickness, just like, sorry, we were
so healthy. I felt so bad I didn't have whiskey
to give them.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
But then they do give them like Worcestershire and like oil.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Lamp, yeah, and like cando tallow tallow or whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And then okay, that was insane, And she was like,
and we're all gathered together, no blankets, and the hogs pushing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Against off saw the house, you know, in the hogs
are like every outside and just like the shingles, like clappy.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
This will happen, and she'll be like, one young soldier
did this one thing and then like General Custer to
me like in bed, like made a joke about it,
and I laughed so hard I had to stuff my
face into our like woolen blankets so the other soldiers
wouldn't hear me laughing because like General Custers making me
laugh so much.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, it's very swift, being like that joke you mean
about your dad, Like you're so funny when she talks
about she actually is.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Very kind of swift in this way where you're like.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, I mean you know, she's a poet. I mean
definitely string a sentence together. Yeah, And like this whole
thing in the beginning, when Custer gets his assignment and
he throws chairs around and breaks chairs.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She's just like fuck and she's just.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Like and our lovely black servant was so angry at
General for breaking chairs, but of course I had to
forgive him for his temporary violence and excitement over his assignment,
and then he chased me around with a broken chair.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
No, it is really terrifying woman that you're like, you
see her like husband, who's like the worst person on
the planet and like everyone's just like at the party
being like that was so weird, and she's just being
so like, you're hilarious.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's hilarious. It's so funny. He like toxic.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Wait, do you guys remember when Custer was like chasing
at me with a broken chair. That was so funny. Right, everyone, Okay,
we have to get into like plover sandwiches, and let's
(20:05):
just break down the plover for a second. You know,
it's always hard in the Dakotas, you know what I
mean to eat, And she's always being like kind of
like so like picky about food when it's just like, wow,
this is life, you decide to lead yea, And she's
being like, okay, so we actually like captured all these
plovers and like smoked them and had the most like
(20:28):
burnt like plovers tonight and just like the meal sucked.
But then she's constantly eating plovers. Okay, this line where
she's talking about this is like more of a feast
they had when things were better and like they weren't
being so like broken down by hogs. We had nine
kinds of game on the table, some of it was
new to us. The beaver tail for instance, but it
(20:48):
was so like pork and so fat that I could
only taste it. We had an addition antelope, elk, buffalo, tongue,
wild turkey, black tailed deer, wild goose, plover, and duck.
The goose was sort of a fatted for us. The
soldier had caught it while young, and by constantly clipping
its wings had kept it from joining the flocks, which
its cries off and brought circling around the post. At
(21:09):
last began to make the life of the chickens a
burden to them, and we arrived in time to enjoy
the delicious bird, served with a jelly made from the
tart wild bullberries that grew near the river. And it's
like they're clipping this goose and it's just like not
flying walking around. She's just being like, shut up, fat goose,
My husband wants to eat you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That sounds kind of good, though with a very compo
like I.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Think it's probably very fal gral. They're fattening a goose
so it gets really fatty and can't like become gamey.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Occasionally she's just getting like so frontier as women gift guide,
where it's just being like we had a very satisfactory
little cook stove and then this like describing like this
sibly stove that Mary buys at like some town, and
she's like, you must have a canvas luncheon, hamper, tallow candles.
I don't trust any other kind. And you're just like, okay,
(22:02):
so who are you doing the gift guide for? Is
this for New York magazine?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well? Oh my god, I didn't even say. She writes
an introduction. This book was written when she lived literally
on Eighteenth Street in New York City.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah. The context of this book is her becoming Carrie Bradshaw, right,
and like writing about mister Big and having like an
endless widowhood where she's like sixty years of being a
widow of mister Big and writing about it.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It is just like I know, she was obsessed with him,
and she like looks down on people who remarry.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
She was obsessed with her legacy and like her own
law and her own low and it's like her lore
like ceases to be her own law if she like remarries,
or at least so she thought, because she's very self
righteous about like being this noble frontier's wife.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I did find though, sometimes I was like I feel
like you're a little bit afraid to be totally alone
with Custer.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Oh, and so she needs the regiment there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, she loved having the regiment her men there and
going to you know, the costco of the Dakotas and
having like always plover sandwiches ready. And then was like
and it was sometimes quiet in the winter.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It was like literally just awkward. I mean like so,
but then we played gin Rummy.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Again because she was like, well, we literally had nothing
to do in the winter.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. No, she's honest about the boredom for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And then she sits by his office his desk, which
I was like, I guess that's cute, and he reads
to her.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That was cute. The part where she's describing his office
and she describes she's like, the most he had a
portrait of his wife in her bridle dress above his desk,
and it's like yourself referring to yourself in the third
person in a photograph above his desk.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh, with this part where she just like gives his weight,
which is crazy. She's like, he weighed one hundred and
seventy pounds. It was nearly six feet in height. His
eyes were clear blue and deep set. His hair short, wavy,
and golden tint. His mustache was long and tawny in color.
His complexion was florid, except where his forehead was shaded
by his hat, for the sun always burned his skin ruthlessly.
(24:15):
Buckskin breeches fringed on the sides, a navy blue shirt
with a broad collar, red necktie whose ends floated over
his shoulder. Exactly, it's like this kind of like cheq profile.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, I means she's a fashionista. I love when she
is talking about how like frugal she is with water
usage because like she's kind of ecofluencer girl, which is
also very in this way, kind of like modern like
anto a girl boss coated where she's like sorry, like
I can do with less.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well when she all of their clothes burn and get
covered in mildo, she said her maid lies to like
the townspeople to make it sound like she had more
fabulous clothes. Overheard her maid being like, oh, like miss Bradshaw,
she just caring. Now she's care like Libby Bacon. Oh
(25:10):
like she sure misses her beautiful like linen dress, and
she's like in reality, I actually only was sad about
the one photograph that got burned of me and custar.
It's just like that is don't care about my clothes.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Sorry, I'm like a furial lesbian like I.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's like girl who watches Brandy Melville doc ones. Yeah,
and it's like and it's like, oh, I'm actually just
only thrifting now, and I don't really care about clothes.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
From being compelled to do with very little water, we
had learned almost to take a bath in a thimble,
And to this day I find myself pouring the water
out of a picture in a most gingerly manner. So
strong is the power of habit, even now with the
generous rush of the unstinted croton at my disposal.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Wait, speaking of the not talking about.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The New York water, and like how there's so much
of it.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And she's like these New Yorkers taking their long showers, okay,
but do you remember when they have She's like, oh,
I loved all the infantry men that came to visit,
except for this one, like Coogee soldier who came and
like she was a key certainly had some different ideas.
And his ideas was that you should take a bath
almost like a cat and just rub your hands against
(26:19):
your skin.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, the dry bath that she was actually like froze
sketch by. Well, it's funny because in this way she's
quite the gossip. Ye know, she's astute observer. I mean
one thing about this book that I will say, it's
like she is very observant, like she sees it all
go down, and like as much as she, like you know,
tries to portray herself as this just like dumb wife.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's like or you know, exaggerate things the exactly thing.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Like she's clocking. Yeah. I love how she said he
gloried in what he called advanced ideas and strove to
wear the martyr's crown that all pioneers a new and
extreme beliefs crowd on their heads. I love calling him
striving to where the martyr's crown Like, oh, this guy
thinks he's I mean it's also pot kettle because she
is wearing the martyr's crown on me.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Okay, but did you get this? It sounded like I
know he was giving himself a weird hands bath, but
it sounded like she woke up to him jerking off
because she's like I woke up to heavy breathing and
him like, I.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Was awakened by noise of vigorous friction and violent breathing,
as if someone laboring diligently.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Oh wait, okay, yeah, she's just like this old soldiers
like drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Oh and then he made up this story about dry bathing.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, like I love dry bathing.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh, and she repeated it. She's a fucking idiot. Maybe
she has done as hell as softly as I awakened
my husband and tried to whisper to him, he was
on nettles instantly hearing the quiver of my laughter in
my voice. He feared I might be heard, and that
the feelings of the man brw me in such regard
might be wounded. He promptly a requested me to smother
my laughter in the bankers. Oh, this is him being
like stop.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Stop laughing, friend, drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
All yeah, taking a bath with the palm of the hand.
M I'm kind of bath okay, but then side no counterpoint.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
My significant other who is from the Midwest, Yes, he
does this thing after a shower where he squeeges his
body with his hands.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Oh, because it's like the Dakota's and he's like learned
from his ancestors who were like an organ trail, and
so he's like taking I.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Mean he's doing it after a shower, but I'm still like, so.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
He's taking his hand, he's like rubbing off the water.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. Interesting, Well he's sort of a plain's tradition of rubbing.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I mean, maybe you could take a note from him,
because I remember once we were roasting you and how
like wet you are after a shower shower, and like
Libby would be so like infantry like Horst is like
wasting so much called a thimble.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Okay, okay. When she's talking about the horse Dandy, that
does and Dandy loved him so much, and that's like
the horses were jealous of the dogs who would come
into the tents just be like, oh, yeah, the horses
want to fuck your husband.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
No, she was like, yeah, this horse was so close
my husband, Like we could hear him like neighing outside.
It's like I don't know, it's an animal, and he's
being like, what's up, and she's like, no, he had
to get in there. And then she was like, oh,
Custer loves going out with all of our dogs and
like rustling in the fields and like laying down and
like the dogs are licking him like okay, okay. So
(29:43):
she's always being like, oh, the Sioux isn't hospitable to
us as they're like killing them, and she's just like
isn't that crazy? Like she's like they were like, uh,
you guys need to pay us for use of our land.
Can you believe that?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And the backstory here for those who don't know, this
is the eighteen seventies, So this is very much like
towards the end of like the several hundred year process
of the genocide of the Native Americans in the United States.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, and she's really kind of.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
And there isn't like major wars going on at this point,
Like it's technically like there's like the Great Sioux War whatever,
but it's just like the amount of Indians that are
left at this point is like very small, like most
have died from war and disease, displacement, et cetera, like
over hundreds of years, and so like this is post
civil war, but like you still have on the western frontier,
(30:35):
some tribes have like allied with the United States and
some are like banning together fighting in little pockets like
here and there. You know, it's definitely tense.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
One might say, yeah, tense is maybe one of the
words I would use.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And the US military was like making treaties with tribes
that they were always breaking. And she's obviously not like
giving a lot of this context, and when she's talking
about it, she's also not even like did you know
that before he went on this like Western campaign to
become this like I'm leading the army like against the
Indians in the West, he got an offer to go
(31:11):
like be a general in Mexico by like Benito Oh
or something who was like fighting like the French allied
Emperor of Mexico at the time or something, and he
was like, no, well, and I guess Grant was just like, actually, bitch,
you're not gonna go command a foreign army. And he
(31:32):
was like, but I want to. And he had this
whole like fight with Grant throughout his whole career, and
she doesn't really talk about that, but they have like
such a like rivalry and like he was always mad
at like Custer. Like I think Custer was like really
kind of this like toxic.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like he was a toxic and wanted to go like
rogue and like.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
And be like I want to go lead my men.
I want to go do this, and Grant was always
just like bitch, like slow your role and I'm arrest
new for deserting and like et cetera. And then like
finally was like, h fine, I'm gonna let him go
out because like, I to give this I have to
give this host something. And if we like lose against
the Sioux and he's not in command, that everyone's gonna
blame me for not putting him in charge, ironic to
(32:17):
the Boots, because who famously lost mister Custer. So but
that's kind of the context. So they're always like meeting
like these tribes and like having like a peace pipe
session with the Lakota, and she's been so sketched up.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
She's she could not be more sketched out, like, and
then she'll like sometimes be like in this like really
annoying way, be like okay, actually their outfits were really cute.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, because then she'll be like, wait, I love this chair.
I'm obsessed with that. But I mean that It's funny
how she's always just been like and here's the peace
pipe again, and we're smoking again, and we're passing the pipe.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
It's like again Libby she's like, I don't smoke me, so.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I don't smoke? Can you not smoke in here?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And she's like, well, I'll like allow like my husband's
toxic friends to like drink Scotch sometimes, but like weed,
that's where I draw the line, like I'm not gonna smoke.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
This part about like her relationship with women, where like
she meets this other general who like he's like, oh,
I'll defend like our land, but like I will not
defend like an officer's wife. And she was like, doesn't
this man know that God created women as his best product?
(33:37):
And she's kind of like weirded out by these like
men who aren't like honoring their women so much. Where
I'm just like, I do believe she was in love
with Custer, but I am just kind of like if
she maybe like did have the chance.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
To well, because when she describes the moment, she she oh, interesting,
I mean it would have never crossed her mind. But
she also describes, like other men, you know, the soldiers
were superb lot of men physically. The outdoor life had
developed them to perfect specimens of vigorous manhood, Like she
(34:08):
does seem horny for men.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Right, Wait, there's this other part where she's just like
he was so beautiful and it's just about like.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
He was the most agile, active man I ever knew,
and so strong and in such perfect physical condition that
he rarely knew even an hour's indisposition. And like that's
you know, the tawny in color, the deeps of blue eyes.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Like she is, no, she loves men.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
She's sure she loves men, is into her husband. But
you think that maybe like she's like in New York City,
don't you think if that if she or a woman
know that she would be kind of a switchy top.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
She'd be the top for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I don't see her like, no, I don't see her
like feminie. No, no, no, it's like in her New.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
York City like a tiny book.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It would be more her in like eighteen ninety.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Five, right, so like twenty years later, So now she's
like in her fifth fees and maybe she's.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Like kind of more like yeah, drinking some tea and
being like come over to my apartment.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, eighteenth Street. She hates cooking. She and her husband
hates when she cooks.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, he's like, oh, she's like, my husband hated to
see me in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Because she's like so trad that she's post trad because
she's just like, no, actually, don't even cook, because she's like,
it's kind of cool that I don't know how to
cook because I'm such a fucking idiot.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Like I think they associate that with like being like, oh,
you're just like this woman who, like you know, spends
her time as a simple pie making woman. I think
he's into the fact that she is a switchy top
and is like coming like you know, onto the frontier
with him and in the wagons and on the trains
and the steamships, because he'll be like reading to her
(35:53):
from like his great books and like playing pool with her.
He's like, my girlfriend is the guy's girl.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, he's really proudly the guy. Like dude, she literally
games and then like he's writing letters and telling her
about the campaigns and what's going on, and like that's
why it's kind of insane that time when she brags
about like being dumb and she's like I didn't know
this like whatever kind of idiosyncrasy of like military protocol,
(36:19):
and like all of the other husbands were actually surprised
by how little it meant that Custer had told me
about their protocol, and he was like, I was so
proud that my curiosity was less than that of any
woman he had ever known. And I'm like, what, Yeah,
You're like, I'm so proud.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I wasn't curious, Like you're so fucking crazy, just crazy
the lord she's building for herself.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Because I'm just like, girl, you're writing this whole incredibly
detailed book about everything that's going on. Like obviously you're
curious and you know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, Like you're writing every moment of like every like battle,
you're talking about outfits, you're talking about food, you're talking
about like the planes and the weather.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
You're just like, no, I'm just like this dumb bitch.
It's like he I likes you because you are smart
and he can talk to you and he can like
write you detailed letters, which is I think one of
the things I like about this book is how like
her contradictions are constantly being surfaced by her own writing.
I do you feel it's like any historical figure is
(37:23):
always like like historical figure not be of many contradictions
because it's.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Just kind of like the past was like always bad, bad,
and so like she'll say maybe like one thing that's
like not actually like so awful, and everyone's like, oh
my god. She's full of contradictions. And she played billiards
and yes, but she didn't take to the whiskey, so
(37:50):
she was full of contradictions, and I think full of contracts.
I found her. It's like we're in way. She like
is sassy and as a bitch, but is old so
kind of like so straight edge.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, but I also think that she wants to paint
a very reductive picture. I mean like she's constantly self
but everything, Like she wants to paint the Indians as
like violent savages. She's always calling them warlike right, But
then like will contradict herself when she's just like going
into the village and like having some peaceful session and
like the running antelope. That guy who like makes that
(38:26):
speech with the dovelance in his hand, and she's like
he's actually like so hot, and like well, she's.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Like he's such an amazing storyteller and his robe.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Is beautiful, and even after she talked about how she
thought the Indians were ugly, she was like, oh wait,
like he has like such a gorgeous spell structure. She's like,
hold on her hot and like she wants to portray
like all men is like being so like muscular and
like powerful and like leaders. But then like that's always
been sort of like contradicted by them being like so
like dying, and she's and then she's like women are
(38:58):
so stupid and like I'm in in and like dotterine
and like terrified of everything, and like every page's just
like my anxiety tore a hole through me. I could
not move. I did not know if I would ever
breathe again at the thought of more danger on the plane.
But then it's just like obviously, like.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Then she's signing up for another freaking like wagon ride
to war, and then she's there. She was like, I
was so nervous, which is such a funny way to
talk about, like war, it's nervous. I was like, really,
I was like cold and nervous.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But in that sense, I think it's like fun that
you keep seeing the contradiction's surface because she kind of
can't help herself in her writing, where it's like if
she were actually wanting to portray like the more simplistic
view of the world that she wants to, it would
be much more.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Like March first, eighteen sixty eight. Today was hard. Yes,
we ate plover, I got blankets. Next day many were killed.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah and that, but this over again.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
But this is her being like my servant was actually
able to add some seasoning to the plover, and it
had kind of an interesting smokiness to it.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Then she is an art ho. She's always referencing artists
and being like, uh, like, the shadows of the fire
and the long house reminded me of doray. Wait.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
She literally says something about, oh, wait here, it is okay.
Large photographs of the men my husband loved kept him
company on the walls. They were of General McClellan, General Sheridan,
and mister Lawrence Barrett. Comparatively, modern art was represented by
two of the Rogers statuettes that we had carried about
with us for years. Transportation for necessary household articles was
(40:52):
often so limited it was sometimes a question whether anything
that was not absolutely needed for the preservation of flight
should be taken with us. But our watchman for those
little figures. So she is like bringing around sculpture with.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Her, fully taking sculpture with her. On the lames, she'd
be like, well, I need like some sculptural works.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You would think that that would be the thing to go.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
No, I would like maybe like a poster, we could
do a painting, even sculpture.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Literally sculpture. And there was like, how is her wedding
dress getting ruined with mold but the sculpture is you
know why, because she stored the wedding dress and it
got moldy, and she's carrying the sculpture with her.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
The sculpture is like air rating, and she's probably also
like dusting it and wiping it down or whatever. She
has so much fabric whence fabric gets wet and mildewy
and you can't like take it to SuDS Alley or whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Way, Wait, this is the Joanna Gaines part. She called
and she redoes her house for laundry section SuDS Row.
Couldn't you see that big like iron sign above your
washing machine that says Sud's Row. And it was like
tin wheeled restoration hardware, like baskets with a heavy waxed.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
With her barber dresses. Oh my goodness. Okay, there's several
other things, like I did want to talk about how
the wines all the horses were fagged. I didn't know
what she meant by that. This is the section she
goes the ponies were captured, but it was useless to
try any further pursuit. All the horses were fagged, and
(42:31):
the officers and men suffering from the want of food
and water. Googling, I'm kind of just like, I don't
know what that means. Does she means that they were
killed British informal?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
What does fag mean? Drained of energy? Extremely?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
The horses were tired.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I guess they're tired. They're like, girl, I'm fa okay
learning new words boots. Also, did you clocked that part
when she was like, oh, the YMCA New York would
said magazines to the fort she was, and we.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Would receive amazing publications from the Young Christians Men's Association.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
That's random, but that's so like New York being like
the media arm of the country.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, and she's getting those magazines and she's like, maybe
one day I'll move to eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
It was to me like very gay about it, like
men getting YMCA magazines. I guess I think of the
YMCA is gay. Now, maybe that's just because of the
village people et cetera. Maybe it wasn't gay back then.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Yeah, and like it's all a little gay because it's
like a military well and especially it's like that's when
it was kind of single gendered and you would just
go and get your you know, little room, right, maybe
you'd share with another, maybe you'd.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Do a nice dry rub boots and segments. How did
she eat?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
How does she live?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Was she wear? Okay, what does she eat? Plover as
we discussed, Yeah, you know, whatever her mate whatever, Mary can.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Rustle up and sometimes she's going to bed hungry and
she is making sure like the infantry men like eat first.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, so certainly not any whiskey.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
No, I feel like she's not even drinking like water.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Well, you know, people didn't drink water in the nest,
Like that's only happened in the past, like twenty years
or even fifteen years that people started drinking water.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Like do you think she mentioned condensed milk at some point?
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yes, well, because she was like it was just so
hard to get like eggs, like, oh my god, it
was amazing when eggs came. But like she's so jostled
on the five hundred mile trip that like there was
like three eggs left.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, I know, it's like her care and so many
eggs is so it's very like when you're on a
road trip and you see like a little stand that's
like eggs and you stop by and you're like oh okay,
and you get it and you put the five dollars
in the box and then six hours on the way home.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I mean, and like that's getting jostled on horseback,
like honey, those eggs are not making it from Minneapolis
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
She's so black coffee. Oh yeah, she's a little little
mug Java. It is kind of stopping. It's like, oh,
the coffee taste muddy.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I feel like there's one point where she does describe
a coffee that actually tasted really good that maybe her
maid made in like a Southern way or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I mean it varies. It depends like if they're at campfire,
the coffee is gonna be muddy if things are.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Better, because when people talk about cowboy coffee and I
feel like that's a very kind of dirty, kind of
sludgy coffee.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, this is a cowboy coffee country.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Just remember the part where she's talked about how women
are born fearing mice I mean, I'm so afraid of ice.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
That's the one womanly thing of me. I'm afraid of mice.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I am I will yelp if I see a mouse, right, a.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Wild country mouse can be cute, like scampering through the fields. Yeah,
but like in your apartment, Well that's different, terrifying.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
What does she where I'm saying, Lennon, you're saying some
sort of waxy material.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, I'm taking like this heavier dress. Again, she supposedly
says she doesn't really care about.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Clothes, Like as she becomes like a girl boss writer,
like Carrie Bradshaw moos to New York, like, do you
think that she is keeping up with the fashions, and
like by the nineteen ten she's a Gibson girl.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I think she must be getting like big hats in NYC.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yes, she was doing big hats, But I still think
that she was being kind of like Dowager and like
I think she was so committed to roll of widow
that she was pretending to be in mourning for the
next like fifty years and.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Were always like wearing back and navy.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
And just being like, oh, I'm a widow. Oh how
awful these young girls right, and I'm marrying.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Walking like through Fifth Avenue, you know, and like as
we enter hashtag the Gilded Age, she's not like getting.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Gilded, Like she's not being so fabulous. No, I know,
she's still being like dowdy Dowager. I'm in mourning and like.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Maybe we'll buy like you know, she's like, oh, I
got a new.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Puffy dress, yeah, and like no makeup.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
But not like a white lace sash and maybe like
but like but.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Then maybe she does have like really strong opinions about
the designers, yes, and she has just been like, ugh,
I hate like Alfred of Alonzo's like latest line. It's
actually I mean I would never wear any of this stuff.
I don't care about clothes, but I hate the way
he's draping the girls lately.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
And I saw what Lady Astor was wearing and I
just think it's too flashy. Yeah, don't you.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
How does she live?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I mean in sculptures, sculptures, like she is a Western
style like beavers. She says they have a lot of
American lions.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Again, what is the American lion? Which I was like,
like a mountain lion, and that's.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
What I would just say. It a mountain lion, and like,
I think she's probably has like like a lot of
her husband's animal taxidermy, Like I don't think she got
rid of that, But I feel like I don't think.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
She has a part where they taxi during their dog
and it's like in some like courthouse in Minneapolis to
this day, we have a visit, you have to visit.
So she's still just being like it's a museum in there. Yeah,
I kind of think that she got a little bit
more like sculpture, sculpture and books and was being more
like I'm a woman of letters now and I'm being
so piled of books and desks big, and she wasn't
(48:16):
being so wagon wheel and like even though it's like, yes,
this book is so her being read Drummond and she
is so like SuDS Row Metal shocking in the Laundry.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Show from antlers above hung sub sabers, spurs, sabers, spurs, writing, whips,
gloves and caps field glasses of map case. The great
compass used on the marches. One of the sabers was
remarkably larger when it was given to the General in
the Wars, accompanied by the remark that there was doubtless
no other OLMNS service, So it literally is being this
(48:46):
full museum with like maps and goggles, and it's like,
I think you're right, Like now that he's dead, and
she has her apartment, she has a storage units, a
widows s has a widows unit.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Full of just like bison heads and sabers, but then
her apartment is being a little bit more velvet couch
piles of books. Absolutely, Okay, who are you in the book?
I feel like I identify with two people. Wine was
her just for like being a bitch and being like
I'm obsessed with my husband.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But also like you're so like a woman of contradictions.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I am woman of so many contradictions, but also running
Antelope when he like absconds with all the leftovers, and
she's like he did something I'd never seen someone do before.
I was at the end of the meal. He took
everyone's like uneaten food and put it into his cloak
and patched up the cloak and left, and I was like, wait,
that's so us.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
At an event, like give me the sliders put in the.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Bag, somebody shoed to shrimp in our pocket.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
And it's also that thing where it's like someone sees
us and they're like, where are you taking the free
sliders out of here? And we're like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 1 (49:56):
They're just like, oh, you guys are so sketchy.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I think, yeah, I'm running in. I also think I'm
the woman who marries three times but then dresses as
a man to like herd Oxen.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I would like to see you heard some Oxen, let's
fucking go. You heard Oxen for like twenty minutes and
just being like I'm gonna sit down.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Well, because that's kind of her mind. It's like she
dresses a man, heard Oxen for a while and then
was like wait, wait, I'm going to like go back
and go to like a dance.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Huh. Obviously, I think this book is fascinating. I think
it's such an interesting like companion to so much of
the history that we do learn and read.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, and I haven't read something this historical that was
like had so many kind of like asides and like
kind of random opinions, you know, like like not huge
political opinions, just kind of more like little observations.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I think it's very interesting, like because it shows the
real like animosity and hatred towards the Indians that like
she and I think other people her generation felt that
you don't really get when it's just being like blah
blah blah a military campaign, this battle happened, this battle happened,
and we all learn.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Like it's bad, and then you kind of see it
from her words and where you're like, oh, you're so bad.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, like you really have like this real visceral like
racist hatred towards people. What's also interesting is there's not
anything about like the Mission of America. There's not really
a lot of like propaganda I would say about like
manifest destiny or like why we need to like settle
the planes, or why it's important to like push westward,
like and I feel like you hear a lot about
(51:38):
that usually, and that's also not in here, which I
think also makes.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
It like this book is personal propaganda because she was
basically and they say, like his reputation is all because
of her, So she was just kind of like although
that low key, always trying to be like no, you guys,
he's hot and really good.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
But what's weird about that is maybe the other books
there's more of this, because I'm kind of like from
this book, I don't get at his reputation as being
like a fan of All I get is that he
was hot and made her left.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
That's what I'm saying. It Like she's being like, right, yeah,
she said.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Laying the runway for book two, which is like all
that he was like a military genius and like it
was so important for like spreading American civilization.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
She was like, let's just like settle the groundwork here.
Like he was hot, Like he was an amazing husband.
And when you're reading this and you're like, oh, he
does sound hot, then you're like wait a second.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Because you know he frankly was like not a great general.
And any way he was I was reading about the
Battle of the Little Bank Corner and Wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I was heading to wikipedia dot com as well.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
It was a mess, Mama, that was a mess.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
What were you thinking this well, and the fact it
really seemed where it's like no one was really telling
him to do this. No, I know, he had a
thirst for blood, and she's making it scene the other
way around. I know.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
It's like, not only were you like breaking treaties and
heading and and I think you know the pretext for
that was like, well, like the crow Indians who had
like were allied with the Americans, like wanted to like
stop the sue incursions into their territory. And it's just like,
don't act like they were like so caring about the
(53:16):
crows that much that they were like going to go
defund them and like because it's like really just about
like they were just like we're just like going to
go on a fun campaign. The arrogance, the hubris. She's
mildly outnumbered.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
She's like, oh, they five to one begging us for food,
and it's like, well you because you decimated the food supply.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah. So it's just like you really have to question
so much of Custer. Question Custer, you have to question
the legacy. But yeah, I mean it's interesting that, like
I do wonder what she was doing in the second
book to make it seem like he was he was,
because I'm just like the evidence, like you know, seemed
(53:55):
to point to the contrary. But that's again why the
book is such an interesting book of country. It's a
contradiction because she's saying all the stuff, and yet even
what she's saying counter is a counterpoint to what she's saying.
But that's why I think it should you know, kids
should read this.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
I like read it to see it as an example
of like casual cruelty in eighteen hundreds, where you're like, oh,
that's what people thought and why they were awful.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
And I think she does a good job like telling
what life was like on the on the plane, on
the planes, I mean like I feel like also in
so much of history books, I'm remembering like I'm sure
these don't exist too more, but the history books read
like twenty years ago in school, were at the very
end of the chapter. It's always just like and then
like women sometimes had a soup. Like it's always just
kind of like or you know, if you're seeing the
(54:39):
great daily life is always such a like small thing.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Ye, women made history and they sewed.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
This and like there was like a blanket and this
is kind of all about like the sculptures was.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Carrying sculptures in the wagon. So honestly, if you're interested
in history, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, I give this book four out of five.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, I'm with you. Porcupine Porcupines and dogs Dogs that
Love your Husband out of five.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Okay, great journey through the Paste.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I know. The eighteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Wow, what a time.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Take me back fast fast.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
While I was fording The Missouri, which took longer than
I was hoping for because I had a bad leg
because I kind of got run over by a wagon
outside of Minneapolis, which is so embarrassing, but I'm randomn
and my maid had just told a really funny joke. Anyway,
Darby Masters helped me forward The Missouri in her role
(55:41):
as producer of Our Steamer.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
In the year of eighteen sixty four, I married executive
producer Christina Everett. She was about to go to war,
and so I went with her. Upon there I met
her general counsel supervising producer Abooza.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Far good guy, really good guy. Love that guy. And
then also I made the music for the show because
I was bored and it was a long winter on camp.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
We were around the campfire, weren't we. Yeah, you just
came up with something on the.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Harpsichord was just did l him just diddlim the way.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
In downtown Bismarck, there was an amazing gallery and I
found this artist, Teddy Blanks, and so I had him
custom make some artwork for my podcast at the time,
beautiful artwork. I sold it eventually because I was destituted
in the Bismarck area after the war. So I did
need the money, but an amazing artist. And yes we
(56:41):
did forward a treaty at one point with the Prologue Projects.
That treaty was broken.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
We are so sorry to the Prologue tribe for breaking
that treaty. Please review our show if you could just
go to the local paper and write a review. It
doesn't take you that long, right.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Then, pobox Celebrity bookclub dot com.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
We'd really appreciate it.
Hey, club kids, summer is upon us.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And summer is such a good time to slow down
and reconnect with your friends and make new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Pick up a seashell and smell it.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Quietly, grill a hota.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Talk to your best friend for hours, go on a
beach walk.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This summer at CBC, we're doing what we call.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Every other Summer, where we'll be releasing a new episode
every other week on the main feed.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
And the weeks that there is not a main feed episode,
that's when you're getting a vip loud.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
You still get an episode every week, but just every
other week for main and VIP.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Do you get what we're talking You're saying, Hey, there
are no stupid questions if you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So, welcome to every other Summer. Slow down, take stock,
be here, now.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Take a sip listen every other Summer. Celebrity book Club, Libby,
thank you for joining me on this walk through downtown Bismarck.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
What a sad town, isn't it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Aren't you from here?
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Oh? What a rude thing for women of your statue
to say. But as we are wives of the planes,
we have little to do as we await our valiant
husbands return from their military campaigns against the Sioux and
other Indians.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
I haven't seen my husband in six months, and can
I tell you a secret, Libby, I don't think I
care to see him ever again. Whenever he comes home,
he just takes to the cask.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
I wouldn't really know much about that. My husband, General Custer,
commander of the seventh Cavalry. Well, he's just about the
healthiest fit and fiddle man I've ever met in my life,
never weary or wanting for a drink or even a
spot of plover at the end of the night, because
he's so fed by life himself.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
That's just funny. You say that, Libby, because one of
my husband's friends saw him drinking from a Worcestershire bottle.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Scoops or marry you tripped? How awful?
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Ah, oh, Libby, I'm just I don't know to do
anymore these winters of the planes.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yes, it's quite hard for you as a weak, pathetic woman.
You do sound very much like a horse. I need
to shoot Oh, just.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Shoot me out back, won't you.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Why don't you retire to this dismal hotel here in
this sad town. I'm going to go back to post
for I'm a strong woman, and I don't mind living
on the fort awaiting my husband.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Oh you're so strong to go out with those men.
It's almost like you want to be a soldier yourself.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Libby, No, No, what a ridiculous thing for you to say.
It is only because I am so feminine and appropriately
by my husband's side that I don't mind being in
the fort.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
It's just interesting because I as a lady, even a
weak lady with disent, terry and one leg, it's become lame.
I would never go out with my husband onto the
fields and fight. It's just an unlady like.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Yes, well, perhaps you should. Your face is so frightening
it would terrify the Indians into retreat. As you are
quite an ugly woman.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well father always said the ugly woman gets the goat,
and the goat who gets the husband prays away the
dysentery onwards. I'm going to check into my hotel because
I'll be honest, I have a cask in there. I'm
looking to supper.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Yes, go lie down, your alcoholic bitch. Who's that knocking
at the door. It's all your friends, you filthy horse.
Your husband's gone and he've got books and a bottle
of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books, it's gossip.
I'm shurek memoir, It's Martini.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Celebrity poof club.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
To read it while it's hot.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Celebrity poof club. Tell your secrets.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
We won't talk books. No boys are loud, say it
loud and pounds ceto clubs.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Spuzz me in. I brought the queer fow.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
Hello best Hello, best friend.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
How is dar thou? Oh?
Speaker 1 (04:18):
I am mused quite well in fact, these days.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Mmmm, as the sun arises, I have to tell you something.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
No, please don't, please don't. I can't bear any more
bad news.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
It's actually quite wonderful news. Okay, across the street from
our recording studio, I kid you not, a Kraffel cafe
has opened up.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is that a cross between a croissant and a waffle? Yes?
What is it? Twenty eleven?
Speaker 2 (04:44):
I know. I was like, we're just opening up craws.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Finally there's a Kraffels vitament out fly.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I almost got a swamp.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
I was like, this is too did they look tasty air?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
They looked a little sitting there. The drinks looked like
crazy And you're actually gonna die for them because they're
all like London berry macha fogs. Oh, it's kind of
like a tea festival. I just got a cortado. But
and then the krawfels were kind of just like waffle
with like a pistachio glaze on them, and I was
like not dying for this crawfel.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
So it looks like layered liquor croissant, and yet it
has the indentations of a waffle on the top.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
I wanted it to look flakier. It just looked like
a waffle with a lot of toppings on it that
are like alternative.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Okay, so right, that plays a tornado crap in my
neighborhood that has these nasty craps that have been sitting
in the window for ten years were supposed to be
made fresh. Yeah, and they're covering like chocolate and avocado,
just like I don't know what this is.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
When crapes have avocado in them? No? Can I call
three one one?
Speaker 1 (05:52):
You know who else would have called three one one?
A lot? A lot?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Karen a clock and also who probably she she could
taste a crawfel.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
No, but she's down for the plover sandwhich is that
her maid makes are bustin'sn't a lesson?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Yum yum yum.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
We read a historic memoir by a historic figure.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Historic figure who had been canceled teeneyed today.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, I think in many ways
calling her.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
The Christineome of her generation.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
Okay, she's not Christineome, though she likes the animals. She's
a murdered dog modern times.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Although see let's get into let's release the dogs.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Yeah, so you know her from her husband, General Custer,
famous eighteen hundreds era general in the Silver War and
then later in the frontier campaigns against various and sundry Indian.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Tribes really tried to kind of like.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
And did and did, and ultimately met his demise in
a famous battle called Little Big Horn and then also
known as Custard's.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Last Stand stand and what I've been calling Custard's Last
Custard's Last Stand, because while we were reading this book,
I passed a kind of old and timey ice cream
store called Custard's Last Stand hilarious, especially with a historical pun.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Now you might be thinking, Okay, Custer got it, but
wait a minute.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
Hold on, Yeah, he died right, okay, yeah, before.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
He could really write his memoirs. He was young, in
his thirties. But his wife, Mama, oh, she wrote, and
he didn't.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Let her write while he was alive, And when he died,
she said, I'm putting them to paper, and I'm going
to write only about my totally problematic.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Husband, my husband who I'm obsessed with, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Going to kind of make a propaganda about him for
like my entire life.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
So that's what she did. And this is the first
of her books. It's called Boots and Saddles by none
other than Elizabeth Bacon Custer, also known as Libby. It's
a big Custer.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Something about the name, like Libby is already so scary.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Because like, you're Libby is definitely like getting you in
trouble for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Yeah, and she's like, ha, I'm Libby. Yeah, you're like, oh,
you're telling and it's like she's pissed, big smile, Yeah,
big smile. The church fair.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, No, she's absolutely telling your dad that she saw
you drinking the parking lot. The cover of my book
is sort of cipio tone photo. We got Custer on
the left and she's on the right. He's very like
indie guy, mustache, hair sweep back.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
His vibe is also he looks exactly like one of
the witnesses in My cousin.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
Finny, you haven't insect with pedagnology. I no, you don't share,
but okay, he is just.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
For like in photos with him, like he looks very
even though like throughout this entire book we'll get into
she talks about like cow Insanley sexy and healthy he is.
He looks more like frail Beverly Hillbilding.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Let me editor's notes in this, because there's a note
at one point where she's once again talking about how
like muscular and gorgeous and studying the cavalry is and
like they're all the hottest prime specimens of human forms
so built, And then there's an editor's note that's just
like autopsies did later show that a lot of the
cavalry was like absolutely like destroyed by their time of
(09:37):
the planes and like they had like bad hips from
just like being in the saddle all the time. Just
like we're obviously riddled with like gunshot wounds and arrow wounds,
and like they were like brittle bones and we're just like.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
So tiny little bones that are being broken, and she'll
be like the Sioux tribe, well, all their hands were
so weak because they didn't do any manual labor. On
the other hand, my husband was huge and.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
Strong, rippling muscles like glinted in the late afternoon sun.
I'm my girl.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
There was photography with starting at that era. It's like
the proof is in the vintage pudding, like he was
not like huge. The cover of this book is very
like go to a amusement park and get a saloon photo.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yes, it's evoking what it should, which is the past.
She's kind of looking directly at camera with this kind
of slightly like smarmy smirk on her face, just being like, yeah, damned,
that's right, baggedam what jealous you should be? Oh yeah?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And she's doing like two braids it looks like. And
she's wearing this kind of like heavy, almost like washed
waxed cotton dress in a barbour type of way.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
I don't think it's as like waxy and thick as
you're imagining from this like grainy photo. I don't think
it's a barber jacket of a dress. I bet it's
like linen in like pretty lightweight.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's not Lina. She's not wearing a wax dress, okay,
but maybe it's like heavy cotton.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Although, as we find out from this book, well a
the flannel where she like stupidly makes this red flannel
that's like visible from like across the plains and gives
away their position to the Indians, and then she's just like, well,
stupid woman, so stupid. They're like, oh, Libby, you're so
dumb for making your red flannel shirts for us that
we're not going to wear. But she is like, the
(11:35):
weather in the planes can be really all over the place.
Oh my god, sometimes it's so cold, and then sometimes
it's actually really it's actually really hot.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
The winters in the plains and the Dakotas can be
really awful.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
But we start out this quite detailed.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
This book is very like this is about Custro, Like
we just kind of like get right into their marriage,
like he visits, they marry.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, and like it sounds like they're fucking. She has
some euphemisms where she's like, we spent three glorious weeks
together in Virginia while he was waiting his assignment.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Yeah, she says the phrase, but not about them making
love once in this book.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
Oh when they all like are fucking in the fields
of Memphis. Yes, we're seems crazy.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah, I can pull that up. But it's like they're
on like this you know, big war trip as I.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Call it, big war trip. They do be marching and
making camp et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
And they get back and she's like, oh, all the
infantry men like went to the saloon and they all
got to like make love with all these women in Memphis,
and like her vibe is very like she's kind of
acts like she's the only one who's married. And it's
because she they go in their honeymoon and he's like,
I have to go to war, and she's like, can
(12:50):
I please come?
Speaker 1 (12:52):
No, the whole time she's been like waait I want
to come.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I want to come. It's so boys trip with the
girls like wait, can I go?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Constantly and like all the other wives are always being.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Like girl, we're staying back.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Yeah, like girl, I'm not trying to go just like
be murdered like in a war. And she's just like,
but wait, my husband think he needs me, and he's
like so hot. Okay, But here's the like fucking in
the field section. Steamers are ready for us at Memphis,
and we went thither by rail to embark. When the
regiment was gathered together after separation of two years, there
were hearty greetings, so it's like they're kind of part
(13:25):
of the regiment's meaning, rest of the measurement, et cetera.
And exchanges of troubulous or droll experiences, and thankful once
more to be reunited. We entered again, heart and soul,
into the minutest detail of one of mother's lives. We
went into camp for a few days in the outskirts
of Memphis and exchange hospitalities with the citizens. The bachelors
found an elysium in this society of many very pretty girls,
(13:45):
and love making went on either in luxurious parlors or
in the open air as they rode in the warm
spring weather to and from our camp.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Straight up like on horses and the workman air. It
sounds like this crazy buch and all.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
So there's these luxurious like parlors and brothels of Memphis,
and then there's just like fields and like all the
local Memphis townswomen are just like fucking all these soldiers
and it's a fuck fest.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I mean, I think it's very like May West movies
or like any Western where the men go into the
saloon and then all the women have rooms upstairs.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Right, and they're all on the balcony and they're like
seven petticoats and lifting up all the dresses.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
So many heavy dresses that they're lifting up, but they're
weak arms.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
But yeah, I mean she established herself very quickly as
this kind of like you know, anti woke girl boss
who's not like other girls. And there's this kind of
tension I think in the whole book of her being
like I'm so feminine, I'm so like my husband's accessory.
I do what he wants, I go where he goes,
and yet also being just like actually like I am
(14:52):
this like strong frontiers woman and like I do know
about stuff and I'm not afraid to like be in
the cabin with him, and like the other girls are
like so like pathetic and like listeners, like going to
the hotel in the town, I'm not going there.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
That's where I was like, it is kind of like
right she walks, so Sarah Palin could run where it
is this thing where it's like I am the ultimate
wife and like fam but also like absolutely I have
guns and I can handle a Bismarck Winter.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Okay, I think she's less Sarah Palin and like a
little bit more like modern indie girls that we maybe know,
but like cause Sarah Palin is being like I shot
a beer from a helicopter or whatever. Oh, she the
whole time is pretending that she's like not doing that,
Like she's like downplaying all of her like strength even
(15:37):
though while she's like revealing them in her writing.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I guess I think she's more just like red Scared
Dimes square.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Like one hundred percent who she's just like I love
like going upstate and like my husband's friends are.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Like so cool.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
They're so cool and like I don't need to hang
out with them, and I have no idea what they're
talking about when they get together. They're so random, and
they like have jobs but also chop would but whatever,
Like I'm like reading books and writing letters and like
taking care of my home. But also girls are weird
and so sad. They're so competitive and I'm not.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
And she was like literally no female friends in the moment,
like yeah, she does make a female friend, like this
woman who gets married three times?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
This was Annie, like the girl but who was also
called Old Nash, who was then later crushed by a
subway in New York City in nineteen fourteen.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
And she does feel bad for she's like gossiping being
like wait, it's actually so sad, like her husband like
ran away with all of her money. Isn't that so sad?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
This is what I'm saying, Like this is so just
like girl who has no other friends or were girls,
and it's the only talking shit about them, Whereas like
Sarah Palin has just been like me and my five
girlfriends get together, get wine once a year and we
all have a sauvigny old blanc.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah and like shardonay and maybe a little sangria thinking
about and like Libby is so like sober and proud
of it. Yeah, it's so annoying. And she's always been like, oh,
these bums came to our house and like I made
my servant like give them like a little bit of
oil lamp to keep them like wasted.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Wait, well okay, well this is them that was like
this is crazy blizzard Dom and she's in this cabin
and then these like soldiers like who happened to be
out like find their blizzard cabin and they come in.
She's like, we had all this whiskey, because whiskey was
something you drank when you were like sick, but you like,
oh no, they didn't have they didn't you drank whiskey
(17:30):
when you were sick. But her husband was so healthy
that he never got He.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Literally never got sick, and they never needed whisky.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
She's literally constantly mentioning, like how he's so so healthy.
The frozen men were in so exhausted a condition that
they required immediate attention. Their sufferings were intense, and I
could not forgive myself for not having something with which
to revive them. The general never tasted liquor, and we
were both so well always we did not even keep
(17:58):
it for using of sickness, just like, sorry, we were
so healthy. I felt so bad I didn't have whiskey
to give them.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
But then they do give them like Worcestershire and like oil.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Lamp, yeah, and like cando tallow tallow or whatever.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And then okay, that was insane, And she was like,
and we're all gathered together, no blankets, and the hogs pushing.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Against off saw the house, you know, in the hogs
are like every outside and just like the shingles, like clappy.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
This will happen, and she'll be like, one young soldier
did this one thing and then like General Custer to
me like in bed, like made a joke about it,
and I laughed so hard I had to stuff my
face into our like woolen blankets so the other soldiers
wouldn't hear me laughing because like General Custers making me
laugh so much.
Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, it's very swift, being like that joke you mean
about your dad, Like you're so funny when she talks
about she actually is.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Very kind of swift in this way where you're like.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, I mean you know, she's a poet. I mean
definitely string a sentence together. Yeah, And like this whole
thing in the beginning, when Custer gets his assignment and
he throws chairs around and breaks chairs.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
She's just like fuck and she's just.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Like and our lovely black servant was so angry at
General for breaking chairs, but of course I had to
forgive him for his temporary violence and excitement over his assignment,
and then he chased me around with a broken chair.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
No, it is really terrifying woman that you're like, you
see her like husband, who's like the worst person on
the planet and like everyone's just like at the party
being like that was so weird, and she's just being
so like, you're hilarious.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It's hilarious. It's so funny. He like toxic.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Wait, do you guys remember when Custer was like chasing
at me with a broken chair. That was so funny. Right, everyone, Okay,
we have to get into like plover sandwiches, and let's
(20:05):
just break down the plover for a second. You know,
it's always hard in the Dakotas, you know what I
mean to eat, And she's always being like kind of
like so like picky about food when it's just like, wow,
this is life, you decide to lead yea, And she's
being like, okay, so we actually like captured all these
plovers and like smoked them and had the most like
(20:28):
burnt like plovers tonight and just like the meal sucked.
But then she's constantly eating plovers. Okay, this line where
she's talking about this is like more of a feast
they had when things were better and like they weren't
being so like broken down by hogs. We had nine
kinds of game on the table, some of it was
new to us. The beaver tail for instance, but it
(20:48):
was so like pork and so fat that I could
only taste it. We had an addition antelope, elk, buffalo, tongue,
wild turkey, black tailed deer, wild goose, plover, and duck.
The goose was sort of a fatted for us. The
soldier had caught it while young, and by constantly clipping
its wings had kept it from joining the flocks, which
its cries off and brought circling around the post. At
(21:09):
last began to make the life of the chickens a
burden to them, and we arrived in time to enjoy
the delicious bird, served with a jelly made from the
tart wild bullberries that grew near the river. And it's
like they're clipping this goose and it's just like not
flying walking around. She's just being like, shut up, fat goose,
My husband wants to eat you.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
That sounds kind of good, though with a very compo
like I.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Think it's probably very fal gral. They're fattening a goose
so it gets really fatty and can't like become gamey.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Occasionally she's just getting like so frontier as women gift guide,
where it's just being like we had a very satisfactory
little cook stove and then this like describing like this
sibly stove that Mary buys at like some town, and
she's like, you must have a canvas luncheon, hamper, tallow candles.
I don't trust any other kind. And you're just like, okay,
(22:02):
so who are you doing the gift guide for? Is
this for New York magazine?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Well? Oh my god, I didn't even say. She writes
an introduction. This book was written when she lived literally
on Eighteenth Street in New York City.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
Yeah. The context of this book is her becoming Carrie Bradshaw, right,
and like writing about mister Big and having like an
endless widowhood where she's like sixty years of being a
widow of mister Big and writing about it.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
It is just like I know, she was obsessed with him,
and she like looks down on people who remarry.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
She was obsessed with her legacy and like her own
law and her own low and it's like her lore
like ceases to be her own law if she like remarries,
or at least so she thought, because she's very self
righteous about like being this noble frontier's wife.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
I did find though, sometimes I was like I feel
like you're a little bit afraid to be totally alone
with Custer.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
Oh, and so she needs the regiment there.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yes, she loved having the regiment her men there and
going to you know, the costco of the Dakotas and
having like always plover sandwiches ready. And then was like
and it was sometimes quiet in the winter.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It was like literally just awkward. I mean like so,
but then we played gin Rummy.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Again because she was like, well, we literally had nothing
to do in the winter.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
Yeah. No, she's honest about the boredom for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
And then she sits by his office his desk, which
I was like, I guess that's cute, and he reads
to her.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
That was cute. The part where she's describing his office
and she describes she's like, the most he had a
portrait of his wife in her bridle dress above his desk,
and it's like yourself referring to yourself in the third
person in a photograph above his desk.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh, with this part where she just like gives his weight,
which is crazy. She's like, he weighed one hundred and
seventy pounds. It was nearly six feet in height. His
eyes were clear blue and deep set. His hair short, wavy,
and golden tint. His mustache was long and tawny in color.
His complexion was florid, except where his forehead was shaded
by his hat, for the sun always burned his skin ruthlessly.
(24:15):
Buckskin breeches fringed on the sides, a navy blue shirt
with a broad collar, red necktie whose ends floated over
his shoulder. Exactly, it's like this kind of like cheq profile.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
No, I means she's a fashionista. I love when she
is talking about how like frugal she is with water
usage because like she's kind of ecofluencer girl, which is
also very in this way, kind of like modern like
anto a girl boss coated where she's like sorry, like
I can do with less.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Well when she all of their clothes burn and get
covered in mildo, she said her maid lies to like
the townspeople to make it sound like she had more
fabulous clothes. Overheard her maid being like, oh, like miss Bradshaw,
she just caring. Now she's care like Libby Bacon. Oh
(25:10):
like she sure misses her beautiful like linen dress, and
she's like in reality, I actually only was sad about
the one photograph that got burned of me and custar.
It's just like that is don't care about my clothes.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Sorry, I'm like a furial lesbian like I.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
It's like girl who watches Brandy Melville doc ones. Yeah,
and it's like and it's like, oh, I'm actually just
only thrifting now, and I don't really care about clothes.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
From being compelled to do with very little water, we
had learned almost to take a bath in a thimble,
And to this day I find myself pouring the water
out of a picture in a most gingerly manner. So
strong is the power of habit, even now with the
generous rush of the unstinted croton at my disposal.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Wait, speaking of the not talking about.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The New York water, and like how there's so much
of it.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
And she's like these New Yorkers taking their long showers, okay,
but do you remember when they have She's like, oh,
I loved all the infantry men that came to visit,
except for this one, like Coogee soldier who came and
like she was a key certainly had some different ideas.
And his ideas was that you should take a bath
almost like a cat and just rub your hands against
(26:19):
your skin.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, the dry bath that she was actually like froze
sketch by. Well, it's funny because in this way she's
quite the gossip. Ye know, she's astute observer. I mean
one thing about this book that I will say, it's
like she is very observant, like she sees it all
go down, and like as much as she, like you know,
tries to portray herself as this just like dumb wife.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
It's like or you know, exaggerate things the exactly thing.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Like she's clocking. Yeah. I love how she said he
gloried in what he called advanced ideas and strove to
wear the martyr's crown that all pioneers a new and
extreme beliefs crowd on their heads. I love calling him
striving to where the martyr's crown Like, oh, this guy
thinks he's I mean it's also pot kettle because she
is wearing the martyr's crown on me.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Okay, but did you get this? It sounded like I
know he was giving himself a weird hands bath, but
it sounded like she woke up to him jerking off
because she's like I woke up to heavy breathing and
him like, I.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Was awakened by noise of vigorous friction and violent breathing,
as if someone laboring diligently.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
Oh wait, okay, yeah, she's just like this old soldiers
like drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Oh and then he made up this story about dry bathing.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Yeah, like I love dry bathing.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Oh, and she repeated it. She's a fucking idiot. Maybe
she has done as hell as softly as I awakened
my husband and tried to whisper to him, he was
on nettles instantly hearing the quiver of my laughter in
my voice. He feared I might be heard, and that
the feelings of the man brw me in such regard
might be wounded. He promptly a requested me to smother
my laughter in the bankers. Oh, this is him being
like stop.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Stop laughing, friend, drinking.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
All yeah, taking a bath with the palm of the hand.
M I'm kind of bath okay, but then side no counterpoint.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
My significant other who is from the Midwest, Yes, he
does this thing after a shower where he squeeges his
body with his hands.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Oh, because it's like the Dakota's and he's like learned
from his ancestors who were like an organ trail, and
so he's like taking I.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
Mean he's doing it after a shower, but I'm still like, so.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
He's taking his hand, he's like rubbing off the water.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah. Interesting, Well he's sort of a plain's tradition of rubbing.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I mean, maybe you could take a note from him,
because I remember once we were roasting you and how
like wet you are after a shower shower, and like
Libby would be so like infantry like Horst is like
wasting so much called a thimble.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Okay, okay. When she's talking about the horse Dandy, that
does and Dandy loved him so much, and that's like
the horses were jealous of the dogs who would come
into the tents just be like, oh, yeah, the horses
want to fuck your husband.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
No, she was like, yeah, this horse was so close
my husband, Like we could hear him like neighing outside.
It's like I don't know, it's an animal, and he's
being like, what's up, and she's like, no, he had
to get in there. And then she was like, oh,
Custer loves going out with all of our dogs and
like rustling in the fields and like laying down and
like the dogs are licking him like okay, okay. So
(29:43):
she's always being like, oh, the Sioux isn't hospitable to
us as they're like killing them, and she's just like
isn't that crazy? Like she's like they were like, uh,
you guys need to pay us for use of our land.
Can you believe that?
Speaker 1 (29:57):
And the backstory here for those who don't know, this
is the eighteen seventies, So this is very much like
towards the end of like the several hundred year process
of the genocide of the Native Americans in the United States.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, and she's really kind of.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
And there isn't like major wars going on at this point,
Like it's technically like there's like the Great Sioux War whatever,
but it's just like the amount of Indians that are
left at this point is like very small, like most
have died from war and disease, displacement, et cetera, like
over hundreds of years, and so like this is post
civil war, but like you still have on the western frontier,
(30:35):
some tribes have like allied with the United States and
some are like banning together fighting in little pockets like
here and there. You know, it's definitely tense.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
One might say, yeah, tense is maybe one of the
words I would use.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
And the US military was like making treaties with tribes
that they were always breaking. And she's obviously not like
giving a lot of this context, and when she's talking
about it, she's also not even like did you know
that before he went on this like Western campaign to
become this like I'm leading the army like against the
Indians in the West, he got an offer to go
(31:11):
like be a general in Mexico by like Benito Oh
or something who was like fighting like the French allied
Emperor of Mexico at the time or something, and he
was like, no, well, and I guess Grant was just like, actually, bitch,
you're not gonna go command a foreign army. And he
(31:32):
was like, but I want to. And he had this
whole like fight with Grant throughout his whole career, and
she doesn't really talk about that, but they have like
such a like rivalry and like he was always mad
at like Custer. Like I think Custer was like really
kind of this like toxic.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Like he was a toxic and wanted to go like
rogue and like.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
And be like I want to go lead my men.
I want to go do this, and Grant was always
just like bitch, like slow your role and I'm arrest
new for deserting and like et cetera. And then like
finally was like, h fine, I'm gonna let him go
out because like, I to give this I have to
give this host something. And if we like lose against
the Sioux and he's not in command, that everyone's gonna
blame me for not putting him in charge, ironic to
(32:17):
the Boots, because who famously lost mister Custer. So but
that's kind of the context. So they're always like meeting
like these tribes and like having like a peace pipe
session with the Lakota, and she's been so sketched up.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
She's she could not be more sketched out, like, and
then she'll like sometimes be like in this like really
annoying way, be like okay, actually their outfits were really cute.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah, because then she'll be like, wait, I love this chair.
I'm obsessed with that. But I mean that It's funny
how she's always just been like and here's the peace
pipe again, and we're smoking again, and we're passing the pipe.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
It's like again Libby she's like, I don't smoke me, so.
Speaker 1 (32:59):
I don't smoke? Can you not smoke in here?
Speaker 2 (33:04):
And she's like, well, I'll like allow like my husband's
toxic friends to like drink Scotch sometimes, but like weed,
that's where I draw the line, like I'm not gonna smoke.
Speaker 1 (33:16):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
This part about like her relationship with women, where like
she meets this other general who like he's like, oh,
I'll defend like our land, but like I will not
defend like an officer's wife. And she was like, doesn't
this man know that God created women as his best product?
(33:37):
And she's kind of like weirded out by these like
men who aren't like honoring their women so much. Where
I'm just like, I do believe she was in love
with Custer, but I am just kind of like if
she maybe like did have the chance.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
To well, because when she describes the moment, she she oh, interesting,
I mean it would have never crossed her mind. But
she also describes, like other men, you know, the soldiers
were superb lot of men physically. The outdoor life had
developed them to perfect specimens of vigorous manhood, Like she
(34:08):
does seem horny for men.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Right, Wait, there's this other part where she's just like
he was so beautiful and it's just about like.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
He was the most agile, active man I ever knew,
and so strong and in such perfect physical condition that
he rarely knew even an hour's indisposition. And like that's
you know, the tawny in color, the deeps of blue eyes.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Like she is, no, she loves men.
Speaker 1 (34:33):
She's sure she loves men, is into her husband. But
you think that maybe like she's like in New York City,
don't you think if that if she or a woman
know that she would be kind of a switchy top.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
She'd be the top for sure.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
I don't see her like, no, I don't see her
like feminie. No, no, no, it's like in her New.
Speaker 1 (34:48):
York City like a tiny book.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
It would be more her in like eighteen ninety.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Five, right, so like twenty years later, So now she's
like in her fifth fees and maybe she's.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Like kind of more like yeah, drinking some tea and
being like come over to my apartment.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Yeah, eighteenth Street. She hates cooking. She and her husband
hates when she cooks.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, he's like, oh, she's like, my husband hated to
see me in the kitchen.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
Because she's like so trad that she's post trad because
she's just like, no, actually, don't even cook, because she's like,
it's kind of cool that I don't know how to
cook because I'm such a fucking idiot.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Like I think they associate that with like being like, oh,
you're just like this woman who, like you know, spends
her time as a simple pie making woman. I think
he's into the fact that she is a switchy top
and is like coming like you know, onto the frontier
with him and in the wagons and on the trains
and the steamships, because he'll be like reading to her
(35:53):
from like his great books and like playing pool with her.
He's like, my girlfriend is the guy's girl.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, he's really proudly the guy. Like dude, she literally
games and then like he's writing letters and telling her
about the campaigns and what's going on, and like that's
why it's kind of insane that time when she brags
about like being dumb and she's like I didn't know
this like whatever kind of idiosyncrasy of like military protocol,
(36:19):
and like all of the other husbands were actually surprised
by how little it meant that Custer had told me
about their protocol, and he was like, I was so
proud that my curiosity was less than that of any
woman he had ever known. And I'm like, what, Yeah,
You're like, I'm so proud.
Speaker 2 (36:37):
I wasn't curious, Like you're so fucking crazy, just crazy
the lord she's building for herself.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
Because I'm just like, girl, you're writing this whole incredibly
detailed book about everything that's going on. Like obviously you're
curious and you know what's happening.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Yeah, Like you're writing every moment of like every like battle,
you're talking about outfits, you're talking about food, you're talking
about like the planes and the weather.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
You're just like, no, I'm just like this dumb bitch.
It's like he I likes you because you are smart
and he can talk to you and he can like
write you detailed letters, which is I think one of
the things I like about this book is how like
her contradictions are constantly being surfaced by her own writing.
I do you feel it's like any historical figure is
(37:23):
always like like historical figure not be of many contradictions
because it's.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Just kind of like the past was like always bad, bad,
and so like she'll say maybe like one thing that's
like not actually like so awful, and everyone's like, oh
my god. She's full of contradictions. And she played billiards
and yes, but she didn't take to the whiskey, so
(37:50):
she was full of contradictions, and I think full of contracts.
I found her. It's like we're in way. She like
is sassy and as a bitch, but is old so
kind of like so straight edge.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, but I also think that she wants to paint
a very reductive picture. I mean like she's constantly self
but everything, Like she wants to paint the Indians as
like violent savages. She's always calling them warlike right, But
then like will contradict herself when she's just like going
into the village and like having some peaceful session and
like the running antelope. That guy who like makes that
(38:26):
speech with the dovelance in his hand, and she's like
he's actually like so hot, and like well, she's.
Speaker 2 (38:30):
Like he's such an amazing storyteller and his robe.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Is beautiful, and even after she talked about how she
thought the Indians were ugly, she was like, oh wait,
like he has like such a gorgeous spell structure. She's like,
hold on her hot and like she wants to portray
like all men is like being so like muscular and
like powerful and like leaders. But then like that's always
been sort of like contradicted by them being like so
like dying, and she's and then she's like women are
(38:58):
so stupid and like I'm in in and like dotterine
and like terrified of everything, and like every page's just
like my anxiety tore a hole through me. I could
not move. I did not know if I would ever
breathe again at the thought of more danger on the plane.
But then it's just like obviously, like.
Speaker 2 (39:17):
Then she's signing up for another freaking like wagon ride
to war, and then she's there. She was like, I
was so nervous, which is such a funny way to
talk about, like war, it's nervous. I was like, really,
I was like cold and nervous.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
But in that sense, I think it's like fun that
you keep seeing the contradiction's surface because she kind of
can't help herself in her writing, where it's like if
she were actually wanting to portray like the more simplistic
view of the world that she wants to, it would
be much more.
Speaker 2 (39:50):
Like March first, eighteen sixty eight. Today was hard. Yes,
we ate plover, I got blankets. Next day many were killed.
Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah and that, but this over again.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
But this is her being like my servant was actually
able to add some seasoning to the plover, and it
had kind of an interesting smokiness to it.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Then she is an art ho. She's always referencing artists
and being like, uh, like, the shadows of the fire
and the long house reminded me of doray. Wait.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
She literally says something about, oh, wait here, it is okay.
Large photographs of the men my husband loved kept him
company on the walls. They were of General McClellan, General Sheridan,
and mister Lawrence Barrett. Comparatively, modern art was represented by
two of the Rogers statuettes that we had carried about
with us for years. Transportation for necessary household articles was
(40:52):
often so limited it was sometimes a question whether anything
that was not absolutely needed for the preservation of flight
should be taken with us. But our watchman for those
little figures. So she is like bringing around sculpture with.
Speaker 1 (41:03):
Her, fully taking sculpture with her. On the lames, she'd
be like, well, I need like some sculptural works.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
You would think that that would be the thing to go.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
No, I would like maybe like a poster, we could
do a painting, even sculpture.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
Literally sculpture. And there was like, how is her wedding
dress getting ruined with mold but the sculpture is you
know why, because she stored the wedding dress and it
got moldy, and she's carrying the sculpture with her.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
The sculpture is like air rating, and she's probably also
like dusting it and wiping it down or whatever. She
has so much fabric whence fabric gets wet and mildewy
and you can't like take it to SuDS Alley or whatever.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Way, Wait, this is the Joanna Gaines part. She called
and she redoes her house for laundry section SuDS Row.
Couldn't you see that big like iron sign above your
washing machine that says Sud's Row. And it was like
tin wheeled restoration hardware, like baskets with a heavy waxed.
Speaker 1 (42:09):
With her barber dresses. Oh my goodness. Okay, there's several
other things, like I did want to talk about how
the wines all the horses were fagged. I didn't know
what she meant by that. This is the section she
goes the ponies were captured, but it was useless to
try any further pursuit. All the horses were fagged, and
(42:31):
the officers and men suffering from the want of food
and water. Googling, I'm kind of just like, I don't
know what that means. Does she means that they were
killed British informal?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
What does fag mean? Drained of energy? Extremely?
Speaker 1 (42:44):
The horses were tired.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, it makes sense.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
I guess they're tired. They're like, girl, I'm fa okay
learning new words boots. Also, did you clocked that part
when she was like, oh, the YMCA New York would
said magazines to the fort she was, and we.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Would receive amazing publications from the Young Christians Men's Association.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
That's random, but that's so like New York being like
the media arm of the country.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Yeah, and she's getting those magazines and she's like, maybe
one day I'll move to eighteenth.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
It was to me like very gay about it, like
men getting YMCA magazines. I guess I think of the
YMCA is gay. Now, maybe that's just because of the
village people et cetera. Maybe it wasn't gay back then.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
Yeah, and like it's all a little gay because it's
like a military well and especially it's like that's when
it was kind of single gendered and you would just
go and get your you know, little room, right, maybe
you'd share with another, maybe you'd.
Speaker 1 (43:39):
Do a nice dry rub boots and segments. How did
she eat?
Speaker 2 (43:54):
How does she live?
Speaker 1 (43:55):
Was she wear? Okay, what does she eat? Plover as
we discussed, Yeah, you know, whatever her mate whatever, Mary can.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Rustle up and sometimes she's going to bed hungry and
she is making sure like the infantry men like eat first.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah, so certainly not any whiskey.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
No, I feel like she's not even drinking like water.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
Well, you know, people didn't drink water in the nest,
Like that's only happened in the past, like twenty years
or even fifteen years that people started drinking water.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Like do you think she mentioned condensed milk at some point?
Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yes, well, because she was like it was just so
hard to get like eggs, like, oh my god, it
was amazing when eggs came. But like she's so jostled
on the five hundred mile trip that like there was
like three eggs left.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Yeah, I know, it's like her care and so many
eggs is so it's very like when you're on a
road trip and you see like a little stand that's
like eggs and you stop by and you're like oh okay,
and you get it and you put the five dollars
in the box and then six hours on the way home.
Speaker 1 (44:57):
Yeah, I mean, and like that's getting jostled on horseback,
like honey, those eggs are not making it from Minneapolis
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
She's so black coffee. Oh yeah, she's a little little
mug Java. It is kind of stopping. It's like, oh,
the coffee taste muddy.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
I feel like there's one point where she does describe
a coffee that actually tasted really good that maybe her
maid made in like a Southern way or something. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:17):
I mean it varies. It depends like if they're at campfire,
the coffee is gonna be muddy if things are.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Better, because when people talk about cowboy coffee and I
feel like that's a very kind of dirty, kind of
sludgy coffee.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, this is a cowboy coffee country.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Just remember the part where she's talked about how women
are born fearing mice I mean, I'm so afraid of ice.
Speaker 2 (45:39):
That's the one womanly thing of me. I'm afraid of mice.
Speaker 1 (45:45):
I am I will yelp if I see a mouse, right, a.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
Wild country mouse can be cute, like scampering through the fields. Yeah,
but like in your apartment, Well that's different, terrifying.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
What does she where I'm saying, Lennon, you're saying some
sort of waxy material.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Yeah, I'm taking like this heavier dress. Again, she supposedly
says she doesn't really care about.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Clothes, Like as she becomes like a girl boss writer,
like Carrie Bradshaw moos to New York, like, do you
think that she is keeping up with the fashions, and
like by the nineteen ten she's a Gibson girl.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
I think she must be getting like big hats in NYC.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
Yes, she was doing big hats, But I still think
that she was being kind of like Dowager and like
I think she was so committed to roll of widow
that she was pretending to be in mourning for the
next like fifty years and.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Were always like wearing back and navy.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
And just being like, oh, I'm a widow. Oh how
awful these young girls right, and I'm marrying.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Walking like through Fifth Avenue, you know, and like as
we enter hashtag the Gilded Age, she's not like getting.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
Gilded, Like she's not being so fabulous. No, I know,
she's still being like dowdy Dowager. I'm in mourning and like.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Maybe we'll buy like you know, she's like, oh, I
got a new.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
Puffy dress, yeah, and like no makeup.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
But not like a white lace sash and maybe like
but like but.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
Then maybe she does have like really strong opinions about
the designers, yes, and she has just been like, ugh,
I hate like Alfred of Alonzo's like latest line. It's
actually I mean I would never wear any of this stuff.
I don't care about clothes, but I hate the way
he's draping the girls lately.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
And I saw what Lady Astor was wearing and I
just think it's too flashy. Yeah, don't you.
Speaker 1 (47:29):
How does she live?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
I mean in sculptures, sculptures, like she is a Western
style like beavers. She says they have a lot of
American lions.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Again, what is the American lion? Which I was like,
like a mountain lion, and that's.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
What I would just say. It a mountain lion, and like,
I think she's probably has like like a lot of
her husband's animal taxidermy, Like I don't think she got
rid of that, But I feel like I don't think.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
She has a part where they taxi during their dog
and it's like in some like courthouse in Minneapolis to
this day, we have a visit, you have to visit.
So she's still just being like it's a museum in there. Yeah,
I kind of think that she got a little bit
more like sculpture, sculpture and books and was being more
like I'm a woman of letters now and I'm being
so piled of books and desks big, and she wasn't
(48:16):
being so wagon wheel and like even though it's like, yes,
this book is so her being read Drummond and she
is so like SuDS Row Metal shocking in the Laundry.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Show from antlers above hung sub sabers, spurs, sabers, spurs, writing, whips,
gloves and caps field glasses of map case. The great
compass used on the marches. One of the sabers was
remarkably larger when it was given to the General in
the Wars, accompanied by the remark that there was doubtless
no other OLMNS service, So it literally is being this
(48:46):
full museum with like maps and goggles, and it's like,
I think you're right, Like now that he's dead, and
she has her apartment, she has a storage units, a
widows s has a widows unit.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
Full of just like bison heads and sabers, but then
her apartment is being a little bit more velvet couch
piles of books. Absolutely, Okay, who are you in the book?
I feel like I identify with two people. Wine was
her just for like being a bitch and being like
I'm obsessed with my husband.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
But also like you're so like a woman of contradictions.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I am woman of so many contradictions, but also running
Antelope when he like absconds with all the leftovers, and
she's like he did something I'd never seen someone do before.
I was at the end of the meal. He took
everyone's like uneaten food and put it into his cloak
and patched up the cloak and left, and I was like, wait,
that's so us.
Speaker 2 (49:43):
At an event, like give me the sliders put in the.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
Bag, somebody shoed to shrimp in our pocket.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
And it's also that thing where it's like someone sees
us and they're like, where are you taking the free
sliders out of here? And we're like, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 1 (49:56):
They're just like, oh, you guys are so sketchy.
Speaker 2 (49:58):
I think, yeah, I'm running in. I also think I'm
the woman who marries three times but then dresses as
a man to like herd Oxen.
Speaker 1 (50:13):
I would like to see you heard some Oxen, let's
fucking go. You heard Oxen for like twenty minutes and
just being like I'm gonna sit down.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
Well, because that's kind of her mind. It's like she
dresses a man, heard Oxen for a while and then
was like wait, wait, I'm going to like go back
and go to like a dance.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Huh. Obviously, I think this book is fascinating. I think
it's such an interesting like companion to so much of
the history that we do learn and read.
Speaker 2 (50:41):
Yeah, and I haven't read something this historical that was
like had so many kind of like asides and like
kind of random opinions, you know, like like not huge
political opinions, just kind of more like little observations.
Speaker 1 (50:57):
I think it's very interesting, like because it shows the
real like animosity and hatred towards the Indians that like
she and I think other people her generation felt that
you don't really get when it's just being like blah
blah blah a military campaign, this battle happened, this battle happened,
and we all learn.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Like it's bad, and then you kind of see it
from her words and where you're like, oh, you're so bad.
Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, like you really have like this real visceral like
racist hatred towards people. What's also interesting is there's not
anything about like the Mission of America. There's not really
a lot of like propaganda I would say about like
manifest destiny or like why we need to like settle
the planes, or why it's important to like push westward,
like and I feel like you hear a lot about
(51:38):
that usually, and that's also not in here, which I
think also makes.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
It like this book is personal propaganda because she was
basically and they say, like his reputation is all because
of her, So she was just kind of like although
that low key, always trying to be like no, you guys,
he's hot and really good.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
But what's weird about that is maybe the other books
there's more of this, because I'm kind of like from
this book, I don't get at his reputation as being
like a fan of All I get is that he
was hot and made her left.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
That's what I'm saying. It Like she's being like, right, yeah,
she said.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
Laying the runway for book two, which is like all
that he was like a military genius and like it
was so important for like spreading American civilization.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
She was like, let's just like settle the groundwork here.
Like he was hot, Like he was an amazing husband.
And when you're reading this and you're like, oh, he
does sound hot, then you're like wait a second.
Speaker 1 (52:29):
Because you know he frankly was like not a great general.
And any way he was I was reading about the
Battle of the Little Bank Corner and Wikipedia.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
I was heading to wikipedia dot com as well.
Speaker 1 (52:40):
It was a mess, Mama, that was a mess.
Speaker 2 (52:43):
What were you thinking this well, and the fact it
really seemed where it's like no one was really telling
him to do this. No, I know, he had a
thirst for blood, and she's making it scene the other
way around. I know.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
It's like, not only were you like breaking treaties and
heading and and I think you know the pretext for
that was like, well, like the crow Indians who had
like were allied with the Americans, like wanted to like
stop the sue incursions into their territory. And it's just like,
don't act like they were like so caring about the
(53:16):
crows that much that they were like going to go
defund them and like because it's like really just about
like they were just like we're just like going to
go on a fun campaign. The arrogance, the hubris. She's
mildly outnumbered.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
She's like, oh, they five to one begging us for food,
and it's like, well you because you decimated the food supply.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Yeah. So it's just like you really have to question
so much of Custer. Question Custer, you have to question
the legacy. But yeah, I mean it's interesting that, like
I do wonder what she was doing in the second
book to make it seem like he was he was,
because I'm just like the evidence, like you know, seemed
(53:55):
to point to the contrary. But that's again why the
book is such an interesting book of country. It's a
contradiction because she's saying all the stuff, and yet even
what she's saying counter is a counterpoint to what she's saying.
But that's why I think it should you know, kids
should read this.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
I like read it to see it as an example
of like casual cruelty in eighteen hundreds, where you're like, oh,
that's what people thought and why they were awful.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
And I think she does a good job like telling
what life was like on the on the plane, on
the planes, I mean like I feel like also in
so much of history books, I'm remembering like I'm sure
these don't exist too more, but the history books read
like twenty years ago in school, were at the very
end of the chapter. It's always just like and then
like women sometimes had a soup. Like it's always just
kind of like or you know, if you're seeing the
(54:39):
great daily life is always such a like small thing.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
Ye, women made history and they sewed.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
This and like there was like a blanket and this
is kind of all about like the sculptures was.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Carrying sculptures in the wagon. So honestly, if you're interested
in history, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:57):
Yeah, I give this book four out of five.
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, I'm with you. Porcupine Porcupines and dogs Dogs that
Love your Husband out of five.
Speaker 1 (55:07):
Okay, great journey through the Paste.
Speaker 2 (55:10):
I know. The eighteen sixties.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Wow, what a time.
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Take me back fast fast.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
While I was fording The Missouri, which took longer than
I was hoping for because I had a bad leg
because I kind of got run over by a wagon
outside of Minneapolis, which is so embarrassing, but I'm randomn
and my maid had just told a really funny joke. Anyway,
Darby Masters helped me forward The Missouri in her role
(55:41):
as producer of Our Steamer.
Speaker 2 (55:44):
In the year of eighteen sixty four, I married executive
producer Christina Everett. She was about to go to war,
and so I went with her. Upon there I met
her general counsel supervising producer Abooza.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Far good guy, really good guy. Love that guy. And
then also I made the music for the show because
I was bored and it was a long winter on camp.
Speaker 2 (56:11):
We were around the campfire, weren't we. Yeah, you just
came up with something on the.
Speaker 1 (56:16):
Harpsichord was just did l him just diddlim the way.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
In downtown Bismarck, there was an amazing gallery and I
found this artist, Teddy Blanks, and so I had him
custom make some artwork for my podcast at the time,
beautiful artwork. I sold it eventually because I was destituted
in the Bismarck area after the war. So I did
need the money, but an amazing artist. And yes we
(56:41):
did forward a treaty at one point with the Prologue Projects.
That treaty was broken.
Speaker 1 (56:49):
We are so sorry to the Prologue tribe for breaking
that treaty. Please review our show if you could just
go to the local paper and write a review. It
doesn't take you that long, right.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
Then, pobox Celebrity bookclub dot com.
Speaker 1 (57:03):
We'd really appreciate it.
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