June 19, 2024 • 55 mins
Happy Pride, awesome humans! This week we celebrate queer actor (better known as the pan/poly star of the TV show "Younger") and activist Nico Tortorella and their book "The Space Between." We discuss setting boundaries, painting with c*m, threesomes with Zoe Kravitz, bottoming, white dreads, making saddle bags, sticking a spoon up your a**, toxic breakup emails, the heyday of the CW, and MORE because, just like polyamory, podcasting is a never-ending conversation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, club kids, Summer is upon us, and summer is.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Such a good time to slow down and reconnect with
your friends and make new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Pick up a seashell and smell.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It quietly, grill a hot talk.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Talk to your best friend for hours, go on a
beach walk.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This summer at CBC, we're doing what we call every
other Summer.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Where we'll be releasing a new episode every other week
on the main feed.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And the weeks that there is not a main feed episode,
that's when you're getting a VIP lounge.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You still get an episode every week, but just every
other week for main and VIP. Do you get what
we're talking.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You're saying there are no stupid questions if you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So, welcome to every other summer. Slow down, take stock,
be here, now, take a sip.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Listen every other summer.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.
You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books
and a bottle of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books,
it's gossip. I'm shook, it's memoir, it's Martini. Celebrity book
Club to read it while it's hot.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Tell your secrets.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We won't talk celerity books.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No boys are loud celet book say it loud and poud.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Celebrity book Club. Buzz me in, I brought the queer voe. Hello,
best friend, partner.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I am so proud to be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I feel so grateful of our sisters and brothers and
awesome humans before us that let us hear.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
All of the nibblings who have laid the groundwork for us.
The Niecks is all, and next Views and next Views
who have built railroads that we have crossed, and we
would not be sitting here today as part of the
outspoken network on iHeartRadio, which reaches sixty eight percent of
Americans every week.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Radio is one of the most queer forms of media
if you think about it, so true historically going back
to radio plays when men would play women. Yes, I
would say radio is the non binary of media.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Absolutely, there are no binaries here, not one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Welcome to Pride Monthly, Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Prime month Club. Kids. We're so proud. I've never been
more prime.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm so proud of you for listening. However, you identify to.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Be a member of the LGBTQA plus community. In twenty
twenty four is a radical act.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Sorry, as the author of our book, who we will
soon reveal at a queer pace. So slowly they say LGBTQ,
I A K A in there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
He put a P and a K in there.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
They put a ban a gay in there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I think he actually identifies as he now. Well, according
to the book, the book is actually quite oldly and
I don't know if you know this, but gender is fluid.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, gender is absolutely fluid. Okay, before we get started,
let's find out what our author Rex identifies as so
we can just kind of know going forward. Well, the
wiki says Torella uses nay them, but also identifies his
father and demisexual.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Demi sexual father. No, but I was just on his
if you look on his Insta and he's just like,
my gender is a journey and there's nothing wrong with
me moving through my non binary prom.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And Bethany the wife is identifying as she they.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I think she's still she's still shaved head.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, and the way and I'll go between they and
he goes in the book he identifies as they. But
you think recently, yeah, more fluid or are you just
seeing I guess.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What I'm trying to help you understand, because it's Pride Monthly,
is that gender is actually fluid, and so you're like
desperate attempt to cling to these fixed ideas about gender.
It's actually super harmful, I guess, because it's I just
want it super colonial.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I just want you to walk you in as I
know you're someone from the colonial state of Massachusetts, so
I know your upbringing. You have these really rigid, rigid,
almost pilgrim like values.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Right again, so the rigidity is actually coming from you
not letting him change his pronouns over the course of
his career, both sexually and professionally.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I guess I'm going from fair text and quoting them.
I'm just coming from a place of respect, is all
I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And I want you to come from a place of evolution.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
This is a book of evolution, so we're each going
to choose our own path.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yes, I think that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's so beautiful because podcasting is also fluid, and Nico,
you can reach out. Okay, who are we talking about?
Bride month wouldn't be anything without the person we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So true, what an essential part of the rainbow.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Fabric we're talking about? Of course, Nico Torturella, the love
interest on the show Younger, which was a show on
I think FX and Hulu maybe free for starring Sutton Foster,
Hillary Duff and Nico about a forty year old woman
(05:32):
who pretends to be twenty six in order to get
a job back and publishing.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And Sutton Foster is you're saying that name like it's
also a name that people are knowing, which I think
is going to be tough.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Sutton Foster is like known for being like a nineties star.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What was she in the nineties?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
She was on Bunheads.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Oh you know her from bun Head, Sutton Foster.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, and she was very big on Broadway Snoopy, the
music Flight of the Concords. She's a a Broadway star.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, Anyway, you probably definitely don't know Nicom Tortorella, even
if you are a fan of Younger.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And Nico plays like a totally like Fedoro wearing like
Williamsburg living love interest who's tatted and dates something Foster
in it. But Nico Tortorella wrote an insane book about
coming out as non binary and being poly and poll.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And beingual and being by and being an addict yeah,
and like to his credit, he is not like just
a straight guy who came out as non binary. Like
he is absolutely by he's like bottoming and really tells
you about the experience of votamine and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Like explains what a prostate is and how.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Bottom collapses ideas of massaging, but also in some way
sort of raifizes them if you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Will, I would say, also raises them, yes, yeah, yeah,
celebrates them you can. So this book is like completely
insane and I've been waging basically a campaign for us
to read this since twenty eighteen. Yeah, because I watched Younger,
of course, because Love Me, a Hillary Duff publishing led
(07:24):
television show. And when I was watching Younger, I wouldn't
say I was like, oh my god, like Nico Torturella
is like looks so good.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
In this episode. I was talking to a friend of
ours who literally watches Younger, yeah, and she was just like, mmm,
I'm gonna know that is He was like, oh right,
yeah the guy, yeah, tell you his name for the
life of me. I mean, his acting career is very
like so CW and just like this very sub level
(07:53):
where it's just like CWA. As you're working, you're in
these random shows that are all like C level, D level.
He's always in.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Like a hoodie and will be like it was a
huge year because like I got cast in The Beautiful
Life on CW, and I was like, I've never seen
The Beautiful Life.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Which is the show there for seven episodes with Misha.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Barbon right, and then they'll be like I was fucking
devastated when The Beautiful Life was canceled. But the way
Nico I think thinks he's famous is I think he
thinks he's brought what being a non binary actor is
to Hollywood. Like the way he writes this book is
(08:33):
so like self congratulatory.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's completely It's just like I know that I'm actually
the craziest fucking gender warrior of all time.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Like I'm the biggest fucking trailblazer in the entire world.
Like I kind of introduced what a poly marriage was
like to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean the very beginning, he goes, whether you found
this book or this book found you, We're about to
embark on this journey in town. This book comes alive
with you with your imagination. You are the life the conduit.
No matter the reaction, Thank you again. I love you.
All of it is you, saying I love you to
(09:13):
the reader book to read on page one.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, I mean he is Polly. Yeah, so that's going
to make sense. We're Polly with Nico.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah no, we're now in a relationship. We're absolutely in
after reading this book, like you're a part of the cule.
You're kind of forced into this cool I mean the
way you talk. So the whole book is basically not
really so much.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
About younger, younger famous.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Or Hollywood's career. Really, it's really just like his sexual
journey and like all of the girls that he dates
and then and then some men, men and he dates, and.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Just like some of the transfems he dates, and mostly
also it's about just like kind of the most traditional
story you've ever heard, Like he they marries Bethany, and
they have his wife and they have a kid.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But Bethany, as he calls to my wife, my husband,
my best friend, muse, butt head, soulmate, twin flame, Bethany,
Christina Myers, Torturella, baby, baby baby, none of this matters
without you. All of it has always been all of
it is you. All of it is you is a
phrase he loves to say.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well and He loves to say twin flame about Bethany,
which is like they're cold, very cult, and there was
that insane like Netflix cult DOLC. And it's like the
whole time Nico will be dating other people and be like, well,
they had to get along with my twin flame Bethany.
Bethany who is identifying as a lesbian currently in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Bethany identifies as a Delasian. Let's be in for like
half the book, and then obviously all his relationships end
because he's like getting Bethany involved in them, and she's
like toxically being like this person's bad for you. And
then like writing the breakup Female with the guy Gabriel
that was so crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, let's just jump in. He dates this like extremely
powerful Central American rich person named Gabriel, who we don't
know who that is. That's like a fake name, and
he whisks him away to Vegas and he's gone sober
this time. And then he falls off the wagon with
(11:27):
Don Julio in nineteen forty two and basically they fall
so fucking in love and it's insane, and Gabriel is
letting him try on his chief on she leather jackets
right off the runway.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Okay, so they meet at a club or something, and
then Gabriel's like, You're coming to Vegas with me the
next day? Who the fuck was this man? I honestly
had no idea. I'd packed my bag with all the
essential designer clothing, and as I rolled up on the tarmac,
I saw him softer than the night before, even more beautiful.
He was sober, unarmored, and a little nervous in a
cue way, which only made me more interested. We sat
(12:06):
side by side on the short flight as if we
known each other forever. There was no small talk. Everything
went straight to the heart immediately, childhood hopes and dreams,
all of it. We ride with the hotel and headed
straight to the presidential suitet gabrielaed booked. I'd never seen
a room full of these epic proportions other than the movies.
A proper food spreader was laid out, a fire already
burning the fireplace in his room of the corn my
eye I saw Butler shining a row of already immaculate shoes.
(12:30):
Where did these come from? The luggage and staff had
flown in a separate plane, but I couldn't imagine everyone
travel with so much. The butler smiled and without actually smiling,
and I'd realized he'd seen this reaction before. Okay, wait,
blah blah blah, then the oh, okay wait. I took
him by his stubled face, his skin a few shades
darker than mine, his breath warm, and ever so slightly
touched my lips to his. I knew not to give
(12:50):
it all up too quickly, so I threw off the
jacket and ran out of the closet all over again.
And it's being like this book is all about like
man always having scruff and him being like way.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Like face reminds me of my dad.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But then he goes he hadn't asked me what I preferred,
but he got the drink right, of course. A Don
Julio nineteen forty two on the rocks with a splash
of soda.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Can I just say that is like the most celebrity thing,
like Christian cavalariy Chloe Kardashian. It's like celebrities want one thing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
It's Don Julio on the rocks, splash of something.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, maybe it's twisted of one. That's all I want.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
It's really true this happens like I don't know what
it is when you're like basic and rich.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I mean it's because also which we're always trying to do,
like t Kila SODA's like in a with the low
cow version, but it's also like tequila keeps you up
and it's kind of like this crazy and like.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
There's an episode of Below Deck where there's this like
Israeli crue and they like chopp her in don Aglio
nineteen forty two because they get like the Don Julio
nineteen forty eight or something by accident. I'm like, this
girl is just like this is not right, and then
they fully have to chop Rida and Sandy's like so
pissed as She's like fuck, He's like they're the guests.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And I wonder if I'd be able to tell the
difference between in nineteen forty two and nineteen forty eight
on Julio.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I'd love to do a blind taste.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I would love to.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I bet maybe you could.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I think I could super taster. So also, a lot
of this book is just Nico being like I'm queer
because my father abandoned me. So he actually is saying
like in this way like child abuse makes you gay,
kind of like he's always been like my hot sexy
Italian father moved away when I was eight and I
miss sleeping in his nook of his arm, smelling the
(14:38):
CarMax on his lips.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, so basically like he locates the impetuous, the sort
of seed of his homosexuality and sleeping in his dad's
bed with his dad and nestling into the crook of
his arm. And later when he like starts sitting guys
like he will literally reper in the book, he.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Just multiple times.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Sorry y'all if this sounds weird, but yeah, he reminded
me of my dad, and I liked like resting my
head on the chest of a man, and that makes
me think of my dad and it brought me last
when I was ten.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And abandonment is queer. And it's also like him doing
this thing where it's like that where it's just anything.
He's trying to relate it as like this is what
queerness is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Well, I guess because that's sort of the whole point
of the book.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is queerness is everything, and the binary reinforcing.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The book is just like a story of gender, of
fluidity and sexuality that ultimately doesn't lead you on a
journey to having a baby.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
With the woman from Chicago who may identify she's a
It is extremely inked up.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
An ink is queer, I mean about queer because it's
about owning your body. I mean, I mean he is
basically saying all these like kind of truisms about like
modern queer culture, which is basically.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Just like us drugs and being inked and having an
symmetrical haircut. It's a lot of this. Like his first
description of one of his early apartments, I pulled out
one of the treasures I'd taken from Grandma, a wooden trunk.
I had a postered and painted with pagan symbols, which
now housed the wine and weed. I was the only
(16:17):
kid on the floor who had a bong, so the
pouty commenced. Bethany wound up staying later than everyone else.
We talked Lan into the night about religion and programming,
getting high and drinking tubac chuck. His family sounds iconic.
His mom is like a sassy Italian woman who owns
like seven bars and like Greater Chicago. His grandmother is
(16:39):
like an angry, homophobic, sassy Italian woman who owns a
vintage store. His stepdad works in the Chicago Stock Exchange,
and then his dad is like also like a brawny
Italian man.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I forget, but the dad was there. Their dad like trash.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Waste management, classic Italian job, and like he's always been
like my dad was essentially so queer because he didn't
care about money and he only got a job at
waste management because like my mom got him that job
and wasment It's like yeah, sure, and he's always like
(17:18):
barring like fabulous gold of rings from his grandmother, but
being like, fuck, my grandmother said something really homophobic. But
I love her and I'll always be there for her.
I mean it's kind of very my diary about my
grandmother because I was obsessed with her and I was
always writing the diary as a thirteen fourteen year old
kind of like coming to terms of my sexuality and gender,
(17:40):
being like, I wonder if my grandmother would like me
if she just met me we were related.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Oh right, if we met your grandmother at a bar?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, it was just and I was like, yeah, like
if we were just random roommates, would she be able
to like handle me blaming my bunk CDs.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
She met your freak, so to speak. Yeah, I don't know.
That's what's so tough about family. Yeah, this is part
of the beginning. I prefer to say that there's fluidy
to all of this and nothing is fixed. But if
you still need a label to help process who I
am in terms of my sexual gender identity, I am
comfortable today calling myself a queer, non binary, bisexual, or
(18:19):
pan sexual, depending on the social context. Se antics, happily married, polyamorous,
non monogamous human being.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes, say it loud.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
How he also has a spinal disease, which is very Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That is very gay. And at the end of the
book he's like, thank freaking God, I'm not in a
back brace. Yeah, and you're like, thank God too.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I know two gays who have spine issues, and I also.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You always say you have some spine.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Issues diagnosed with mild.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Say it loud and proud.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Okay, I am a polyamorous, non monogamous, happily married, spinally
challenged rammy sectual Ridgewood, citizen of.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This earth, of this earth. So I'm not sure if
he goes to my alma mater school's art suit or
Columbia College I'm guessing he went to no and he
(19:25):
makes like just like fucking awesome collages.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It sounds like, yeah, he's really into art. Throughout the book,
there's the large art piece he makes like in high
school that he has to destroy with his father, and
that's really cathartic bonding thing.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
He makes a huge kind of makes media piece, goes
to art school, meets twin Flame Bethany. They have this
like amazing connection, but he goes out. He transfers to
Loyola Marramount.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, that's why it's like, I don't think you transfer
se a C to Loyal and Marrimount. I think that's
more of a Columbia college.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, it' like art and marketing. And of course this
book ends up with like ayahuasca, because every celebrity and
it starts with this is like his college dorm. I
positioned a Muslim prayer rug with a clear picture of
Mecca at the center of its red fringe wool in
front of my altar cross culture. Sometimes contradictory religious figures
are dain the mess shelving always with the proper amount
(20:22):
of nog champa burning. I was honoring all these art
types without ever really knowing who were what they were,
like coloss at college where you're just like.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Buddha prayer flags.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Other stuff from the Free.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Prayer Rug, lots of just like fish flat, yeah, like
going being like wait, like discovering like one Mexican shop
and being like, I found the most amazing candles.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But so he moves out to La and is like,
fuck it, I need to try like acting, man, I'm
gonna do this, and like gets a job at like
a raw food restaurant, and it's heavily in influenced by
this aunt and uncle who are raw fuddists the whole book.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, and it's really traumatic later when they moved.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
To the Florida way, let's break that down for a second.
Throughout this entire book, it's like the dad kind of
abandoning and then that makes sense to me. But he
has this uncle who, when he's like twenty five, moved
from Chicago to Florida, and he's like, they didn't fucking
tell anyone. Yeah, and they still won't talk about it.
(21:26):
But I was really just like and like, I'm torn
to fucking pieces that my uncle moved to Florida.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I don't even live in Chicago and you're upset that
you're he lived in la at the time, the most
normal thing a retired Italian tiny American couple to move
to Florida from being cold to warm.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, and then looking and then the uncle's planting a
palm tree.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
And the palm tree falls on him and he breaks
his legs, but he won't let me go come and
take care of him because.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
He didn't want to show his weakness. Yeah, and the queerness.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And the queerness of not showing your weakness when your
legs at crushed by a palm tree.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So let's get to his kind of first interaction with
anal play.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But just to wrap up the art loop, So he's
in this kind of like thruple while he's shooting this
movie twelve again, something that no one has ever seen?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You ever heard of? The movie twelve No?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And it's with all these young kids and there's actually
a ton of famous people in it. And Jeremy Allen
White isn't it? And Zoe Kravitz isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And Chase Crawford iscent, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And he gets in this threttle and I do kind
of think Chase Crawford is the guy in it because
I've heard that Trace Crawford does go to events, pink
washed events, no, like sex events.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's so awesome. Yeah, I've heard that, but I hope
you aren't outing anyone on pride mind. I would never
actually kind of well, actually your business.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
You can go to an event and not identify as anything,
and you can be a polyamorous.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Tons of events and I don't identify as zero identity. Yeah,
one single thing.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
But he goes there was a boy and a girl
in this movie. Immediately formed a bond that I can't
help but beam with absolute soul full joy when I
think about one night we got pretty fucked up at
a party and wound up all looking up at the bathroom,
pretty innocently and pretty straight. Two boys in young love
with one starlet. This was my first real polyamorous situationship.
We would spend days in her apartment and Soho writing poetry,
(23:16):
blasting music, making short films, and just being free. She
went out of town one weekend and he and I
stayed at my apartment for two days, painting hot air
balloons and romantic verse on this door we had found
in the street in the East Village. When she got
back in town. It was pouring, ran outside, and he
and I wrapped the door in garbage bags and walked
to her apartment to surprise her with it as a present.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Fucking magic, okay, and guessing who the girl in this?
I think it is Zoe Kravitz. Yeah, because I'm like
writing poetry and blasting music.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And also soho. She's so soft and soho for like six.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Weeks and leaving him being like, you can do whatever
the fuck you want, Ohndred. But then she comes back
and it's actually really pissed and doesn't remember that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
She says that that's the start of also her like
secret evil bisexual.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Art, and then more art when he gets his own
loft and five eye. I bought some eight foot tall
wooden fence and from home depot and split the space
into three large rooms, two bedrooms in a sprawling living room,
and painted the apartment in bright colors and geometric patterns.
This was my first real New York loft, and I
was gonna make it a gallery. I hung artwork all
(24:29):
around the apartment, overlapping pieces at odd angles, as if
they had just fallen from an earthquake in heaven or
rather the underworld highly curated, highly imagine, highly free, like.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
The most fucking psychotic ugly apartment. It sounds like mao Wolf,
doesn't that like the interactive art installation?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I know a former CEO of mal former CEO.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yes, characters share.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
My sister's close friends. Oh listener of the pod. Good
for that?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, well we love We think it's so interesting and
it's really cool the kind of immersive experiences that you
guys created over it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But really Nico is very like in turn Wolf.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I mean his whole athetic because it's all triangles and
I want and.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Bright colors and mecca and again religious and this is
like sleeve no more plus me I will plus like
movie about performance art when he gets sober and he
starts making big paintings and he jerks off on all
the paintings and uses his com as a varnish.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
He's just so housive. Yes, which is this that's ultimately
us space in Bushwick. That's so just like all these
guys who are like such realtors, Like.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
It's a key they realtors where it's like Nico's gender.
And I did look actually in this recent People article
and in the written form so on People dot com.
He prefers he.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Him on people dot Com.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well, and that's a thing straight publication.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And gender is fluid, and sometimes when you're flowing into
people dot Com, you're he.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I just feel like the patriarchy, the people dot Com
is forcing him and to heed him. And this is
an article about his new of course children's book, which
we'll be doing. All of vet is you, olivet.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Oh, not all of it is you.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
No, it's about I think a girl name Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
He's really trying to like brand himself as having this
phrase all of it is you and this is his
just like this faces that are coming out, all of
it is you.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And that's like about self acceptance. And I was wondering
about come be as someone who went to art school.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, were there are a lot of guys doing the common paintings.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I was surprised that no, but maybe if I continued
on the painting major, I would see that more. Like
I remember a guy like definitely like shitting in a
box in our dorm. We had like the top floor
was the studio, and a guy like shitt in a
box as his art. Yeah, and then was like asking
people to come over and be like come over and
check this out.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Up.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, he is now passed, so that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Is okay, Lily, that's really fucked up.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm just saying the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You're making fun of the dead.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm not making fun of the dead. I'm literally just
saying art that was made by someone who's dead, which
is very cool artist.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
No, that's true cool artists. We talked about Picasso, Yeah,
I mean shitting the box is now more interesting than
rather exactly because he died.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And then I remember a guy did make like a
sixteen millimeter film of like him sucking his girlfriend. Okay,
but others, And I remember my teacher was so just like,
this is actually boring.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
And that was so shocking. Yes, the first time you
heard someone call sex boring.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And was like, you think if you just film yourself
having sex and black and white, that's art.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I was like no, and he was like so sh shamed.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Wow. Yeah. Did you guys all watch it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Could you see penetration?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah? It was missionary guy on top.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay, you saw a lot of ass. Okay, oh, so
you weren't seeing like the actual like side view of
the dick going down.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
No more ass thrusting? Yeah, girl, spread legs.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay, I feel like that's not as maybe bold as no.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think he probably could have gone bolder.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I mean Andy Warhol famously has this video that's like
a guy getting a blowjob, but you don't see.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You see just like the face, right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Like him getting it, but you don't see the actual
blow portion.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And it's like just Nico is the most art school
person on earth because it's just like him being like, yeah,
I came on a collage, I made my Calabasas home.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
He doesn't actually go to art schools. It's like the
art is so.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well you went to Flemia College, which isn't art school, okay, right,
but like so recognize that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I guess it would be like more art school if
he were like, yeah, I'm making these paintings right now,
and like it's taking me like nine months and I'm
being such an alcoholic about it and like but then
maybe you're finally seeing them. But like, I feel like
it's not so art school to be like I'm moving
to a lot and immediately hanging like upside down like
red canvases everywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, at least that's just the only thing I'll give
him is just that like he actually isn't trying to
have a gallery showever of his like art.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I don't know if it's looked at that people article
a little bit more. He probably does have an art
show that's just like it's actually like an installation in
a yoga studio because he's so the global yoga community
and top onun.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And he does this thing where he assumes we all
know what Bethany's Jim that she teaches at is named,
like he's always He.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Was like, yeah, her workout career was like really taking off, and.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He was like, we weren't together at the time, but
we had this rule where if one of us called
two times in a row, we had to pick up.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
The two call rules just kind of us. It is
of us, And no, I was like, I guess that's beautiful,
and like, who do you have the two phone call rule? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just like you know, even if you haven't spoken for years.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Right, if you war dial as we call it, community,
like you're picking up. I feel like I have a
two phone call rule with like maybe a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, it's kind of a lot of people, really damn. Okay, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Kind of an international signal meaning like, Okay, this is
important if I'm calling again.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
So Hiven Bethany. They break up. He dates this older woman, Jamie,
as he's starting to become an actor, and then with
Jamie that's when he gets into ass play.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
That's before he meets Red on The New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, it kind of preps his more gay interaction. So
he's like Jamie, who is like older and like also
an actress, was like, Jamie was really into oil pulling,
so how coeer is this? They kept a huge jug
of coconut oil by their bed, and he was like,
we just had this fucking cosmic relationship. We even like
kiss for the first time. For our first year. We
(31:01):
just slept in the same bed, drinking wine, having conversations.
And then one night she's he sticks a spoon up
his ass.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, and he's like it was a spoon.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I'm so weird and he's like, not the main side
of the spoon, you sickos. And then it's like, actually,
sorry for king shaming anyone who does like stick up
the like spoon, end up your ass, do whatever you
want on some humans.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, that was kind of triggering for me.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Have you spooned?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
No, but I did put another object of my ass once.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I won't pry it was. That's actually like clothes cap on.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Got fun it. I put it inside of a condom.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Safety first, remember this pride. We can't have pride if
we are not safe.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
But then it kind of like went like all the
way up in. Yeah, like you lost it. I lost it.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Okay, boom stick down, boot stick down. Wait, this is
so jackass, dude, let's put glue up your ass.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's very jackass. And then I kind of had to
like root around in there and it was like it
was not easy to get it back out. But luckily
the condom was gave me something.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
To grab pull on. Yea, it was. And I will
say it, that's experimentation.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I had already had sex with me. I don't know
what I was really hoping for.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I was you were just playing and queer.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I was exploring.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Glue is queer because horses, Yeah, and horses one of
them more queer animals.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Hello, they sleeping, standing up.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Enjoying water but not wanting to get like two into it.
I feel like that's very horse. It's like they don't
want to like swim, but they do want to kind
of frolic in the waves.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Right, and horses like are tops, but do get roade?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Wow, do you think about the queer taxonomy?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Like even though like if you're you know, an amazing
rider jockey, you have the commands.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
At the end of the day, right, the horse is
the top. The horse is the top, and you're the
jockey is such a bossy bottom, right, So that sort
of paves the way for his anal experience. Then he
falls in love with this guy on this set of
another movie no One's seen in New.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Mexico, in New Mexico, and like, oh, it's a Joel
Shoemaker film, right, and he's amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Way of it was a supernatural thriller called Odd Thomas.
We all know this, like twenty eleven hit Odd Thomas.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Oh classic, Oh my god, Opening Night you have the
Blue Red.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
What I do think is maybe interesting most career is
there's a slight timing issue where it's like his career
started kind of after like the end of real Hollywood,
where it's like, you know, the end of like the
Romcome era and like Blockbusters and like the start of
just like things only being either Marvel or like, yes,
a Netflix show that's like known as Seen. It's like
the start of like the streaming world of everything being
(34:07):
so diffused and so like the world for actual TV
shows and movies in the early twenty tens is kind
of like so dead and there isn't really like well, and.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I would say also he caught the tail end of
I think like c W shows.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
That was already the like fifth least watch network.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
But The Beautiful Life was like his big breakout stars
quote unquote. He's always like, yeah, so I'm a white
CISK guy with a symmetrical face and is like basically
calling himself like beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And The Beautiful Life starring Misha Barton and Sarah Paxton, Okay,
Sarah Pataxton, famous star Sarah Paxton who ends up dating.
But it's like he missed being on like VOC or
even like yeah, I guess he could have been on
like Riverdale maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, and if you'd like come of age now, like
maybe he could be on like seven seasons of whatever
like Game of Prones or something that people like. But
but this.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Medium, whether he was like right, a cwten star or
like in an action movie, yeah, it doesn't also seem
in this book that he really like cares even though
he really wants to be an actor.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, I don't feel like.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
There's this point where his hair is like one dread
and he's like, yeah, I had super problematic dreadlocks, but
continues to get dreadlocks altered throughout the book, and then
his managers are like, you actually need to stop looking
like so nasty and white heavy, and.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Then she just the hold thing about her hair is
long and it's feminine and he needs to have short hair.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
That was the first time he was like put in
the closet was when he was told to cut his
long hair.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I had to go back in the closet for
the eighteenth time.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's like when iHeart told you you had to dye
your hair blonde to stay on the Outspoken network.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
It was really hard, but I was like fine, Like
all I wanted to do is be in the closet
my whole life. I'm forced to million myself in the
Outspoken work every week. So he starts dating this guy. Oh,
he's like, first of all, we both sleep with other
women on set. Then we start dating each other, like
because we finally fall in love, and they FaceTime the girls.
They used to date while they're like in bed together
(36:14):
on this like New Mexican road trip post shooting as.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
This kind of closeted thing, and he's.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Like they were actually totally chill with it, but like
also thought it was weird, and I'm like, that's just
so toxic to me.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
There are so many toxic moments where he's not living
on too probably like how toxic he is, He'll be
like Bethany actually was pretty pissed at me that, like
I didn't tell her I was sleeping in the same
bed as Jamie. Jamie actually was pretty mad at me
that I didn't tell her Bethany was moving to LA.
The girls were actually kind of mad that I was
with Red on this road trip. And it's like you
(36:44):
are just being like a dick, And it's like this
whole point is him being like Polly and deconstruction relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
But it's like, I mean again, and this is the
thing where I'm like all the language around polyamory is
only just like how can I.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Get away with everything and then blame you being mad
at me?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Right? And I waged my own guilt in the process,
and then take accountability by talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It A Lee endlessly for hours. And this is part
where he's like, Bethany can't tell me what to do
with my body because that's the patriarchy. But then like
he's telling Bethany that it's the patriarchy for her being
mad at him, which is like goss like boots.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Okayat But I want to get to this description of botomy.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And by the way, I was blasting that at full
volume in my cars. I was driving through a torrential
down Poor yesterday and they could hardly hear it, and
I was like volume up to sixty, okay go.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I told him I wanted to bottom for him. I'd
never done that before, and I was scared, but I
also wanted to be vulnerable with him. Something in me
needed this. It's like, yeah, that I'd never had anyone
inside me before. Inside is italicized in the text, by
the way. And when I let Red do this, I
felt like I understood something I hadn't known for the
(38:00):
kind of trust it takes, the openness it takes to
bring someone else inside of you. It's just like yes,
the openness, It's like yeah, Literally, it was a breaking
open for me, a kind of sacred stillness that came
in after it was over. I was aware of my
vulnerability of my own body. You know how it's acceptable
(38:21):
or more acceptable for men to have sex with other
men as long as they maintain the position of dominance
of only toppying, never being entered. How men who bottom
are looked down upon. I think part of that reason
for this is that the act does upend what it
means to be a man. To bottom, you have to
admit your vulnerability, to welcome it, to give up control.
(38:42):
And it changed me, made me feel another part of myself.
We're taught in sexual education that men have a penis
to insert, but what we're not taught is the sacred
power of our prostinate. So let's talk about the prostate.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Y'all. Y'all see this book. Drink every time they say.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Y'all, it just get this walnut size glan is located
inside the rectum. It's just a protect sperm, say misogenes.
Stimulation can be both exciting and beneficial to one's health. Now,
it's just very like.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Ourselves, like whoa, whoa, whoa hold on. It seems like
in our society masculinity is favored over being the bottom.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It's so burning made because he's so.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Like having these realization.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Long hair who are all like, we're actually protecting our
sacred seed together. And that's why doing like an insane
circle jerk where we're all wearing leather necklaces and beads,
the patriarchs fighting the patriarchy, and we all have like
Chinese character tattoos that were taking accountability for being problematic
while getting more because he.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Was like, my mom, who's fucking hilarious but really problematic,
took me to get a Chinese tattoo, and then he
covers it up with like a cross made of typewriter letters.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, and then you see when he goes awask a
Brew and he's just like and actually, Ian, the guy
who was Dat at the time, opened my eyes to
how problematic it is for SISS pass.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Pass white passing, white.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Passing privileged, beautiful, symmetrical, hot, rich actors to go to Peru.
And I'm going to go back, and that's a really
important conversation to have. But nonetheless, here I am in
Peru and.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
He's like, and here I was with my with my
she they lover, and how much like we had an
amazing time on Aya and he's like we'll cover maybe
that at another time. Speaking of his style, this part
of when he's discovering kind of his fluidity. I bought
an antique sewing machine from the late eighteen hundreds, one
(40:59):
of those heavy duty steel singers that was strong enough
to punch through leather. I was making these incredible recycled
animal skin saddle bags with intricate embroidery and repurpose crystal jewelry.
In the months before the pilot, tute I made tons
of trickets to wear his ornamental armor bags and fast
and necklaces, all with personal signa trick very much curing
(41:21):
the Nico torturella. Everyone's going to meet. This is right
before the beautiful life. So it's like bottoms once makes
saddle bags. But then also it's becoming so burning man
because of course it has to be on an eighteen
hundred sewing machine.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, I feel like burning them now is very just
like you're ordering your like Sanskrit off Amazon.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
It's very like sheen Amazon based. The other thing about
him being toxic is we like learn about his kind
of addiction and like because he'll be like h Ashton
Kutcher like yelled at me for doing coke.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
At the Boom Boom room. Right. That is very Ashton though,
to be like, dude, what the fuck, dude?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Not cool, dude, this is your fucking career. If you
want to blow it all up your nose, fine with me,
but not on my watch.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Like you could be the next me.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, like you could star in the sequel to Twelve Brothers. Meanwhile,
Demi is like.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Od ing on twelve in the other room, and he's
just like, not cool, dude. I have to go to
like a zoom meeting for one of my several startups
about stopping child trafficking.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It seems like his addiction though. He's always peeing everywhere,
which is the thing that other theme.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, he pees in like his mom's plant, and then
when him and best one night after he sleeps with
his stepdad's coworker.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, his parents moved to Calabasas and they have this
like big party and basically he's still in this closet
relationship with Red co star of the famous movie twelve.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
No No No co star of Thomas.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Sorry, I get mixed up with my favorite movies and
to prove to his family that he's straight. And this
is what the patriarchy will do to you. He sleeps
with his step father's.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Coatworker Walred is there, which is so fucked up, and
I guess he's like chucking it from actually because of
the patriarchy that I did this, that I like cheated
on my boyfriend in front of him.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And like pissed all over my mother's house and like
broke all of her pool fences. And also of course
he has like ten tiny puppies throughout this entire.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Time, Like our family of six was so beautiful me Jamie,
our pubs.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Like there was pea pets everywhere, and it's like, is
it the patriarchy?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And this was okay? Also so queer when he talks
about the house he bought where he buys the tortoise, Oh,
and it gives away returns it for a Boa constructor.
And I'm just like the amount of pets being re
homed casually, Oh, Lena.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Dumham to the boot, I like where And he's like,
I was actually afraid of achers and boa constricers are queer,
and so to get into my demisexual iness, I had
to conquer the fear of boas.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That was so I'm afraid of boas so I have
to buy one, but we'll have to like throw away
my tortoise, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, just trash the tortoise. Stump it.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Well. He is actually a villain, like full villain.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Completely insane villain and kind of Yeah, the climax of
this book, besides the ayahuasca and like marrying Bethany at
a fucking beautiful city hall like ceremony after I feel
like Bethany like d lesbians. Yeah, basically he's the man,
and he's like we had been deconstructing Bethany's lesbians for
(44:49):
quite some time.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
I Mean there's this scene where it's like they go
to dinner and it's him and Gabriel, the rich like
mysterious Central American guy.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
And Bethany and her found at the.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Time, and he's like, it was so fucking crazy because
even though I was like the feminine one in my
relationship with Gabriel, I was on a past skill and
role in my relationship with beth.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
What.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Oh my god, my mind's being blown. You're top with
your girlfriend, but at bottom with your like huge rich
Latin white friend.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And he's like, and Bethany was the top with her girlfriend,
and it's like, you know, Bethany was just being so
half shaved, tatted and like had just a slightly more
femin half shaved.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
But then it's like, as the book is on, like
he's becoming this like famous gender fluid person in his eyes, in.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
His eyes except for like this awesome trans family performance
artist like breaks down, like how fucking white he is.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And he cries and is like thank you for taking
me in and.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And he's being like, I haven't cried that much since
seeing Rent the musical.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
This is like when he starts to think he's really
starting making in the queer world. In the early half
of twenty seventeen, I was doing tons of cover stories
that interviews in queer magazines like four two nine, Alexa,
Gay Times, John all capitals with an accent on the
O and paper, Holy shit, you were in the cover
(46:18):
of four two nine and Alexa.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
My friend Christian Siriano dressed me in this asymmetrical electric
green zebra print suit, jacket and skirt. In my opening monogue.
This is at the gladiwords my opening monologue, I said, hey,
guess what we made it to Earth. We have no
idea why we're really here, but we have bodies, We
have minds. We have spirits, we have laughter and rainbows
every color of the spectrum. We have community. We have
(46:43):
our elders that pave the way. We have our youth
who are rewriting what it means to be queer. And
now we have each other.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Period.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
And then the following night, I wore a strapless black
and white billowy sleeve cottail gown to the glad Awards
and Bethany wore a classic masculine suit. Period genderfu great period.
It's like, I think women have been wearing suits for
a while now, Marlina Dietrich anyone. Yeah, but he's like, no,
(47:12):
I wore a pirate shirt and my wife wore a suit,
So handle that, bitches.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And then he invited to be the keynote speaker at
her conference, Her the app. I don't know why it's
called the Her Conference, but it's about like me too
and like women in the industry, and Bethany's really pissed.
Then he gets asked to speak at the her conference.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Oh, because like, how.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Dare the her conference invite you to speak, let alone keynote?
But then he taxes performance are queer? They friend a
locke who says, yes, you should do this, they will
get I gets so important to occupy these women's spaces.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
They're like, take over the women's spaces, and.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
That he does, that's how great.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Sting my non binary friend being like, hey, do you
think it's okay for me to take over a space?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
And they're like.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Absolutely, don't listen to your bidg as wife segment.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
What does she eat?
Speaker 2 (48:22):
What does she wear?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
How does she live?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
How does she live? Fucking collages everywhere, geometric shapes, peapads everywhere.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Like the Chaos, the queer.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Chaos, antlers, painted antlers.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
And it's religious and it's mural.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
And it's more Muslim rugs.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Are and it's just like so crystal girl, and there's
crystals and there's plants, and there's so much hanging rope everywhere,
and their sex swing is like in the living room.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
And there's also Guido fabulousness from his grandmother's antique store.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
It's just the most like chaotic mix of disgusting aesthetics
that you can mad to know in one place.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
And then I feel like the kitchen is just so.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Normal hashtag normal kitchen.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
What is he? They wear fucking everything from flat brims
to pirate charts.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I feel like his dad's style now it is the
most normal, like a soft henly beanie, like thin necklace
with like maybe not a bullet, but maybe yes a
bullet because it's like reclaiming the patriarchy or something.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
And he has like huge tattoos that I feel like
are very Chicago, where it's a huge portrait of his grandmother,
huge portrait of his dad.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, portrait of a dog, his brother's name, typewriter.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
As a cross. But yeah, then it is just like
skinny jeans, aloe running sneakers. But then it is like.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
A beanie is at where it's almost floating. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
It's like you're like, how does gravity work that way?
And then it is like probably a shared a costume
closet with Bethany, with all their freakery.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
They can explore gender in different ways.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, and it will be just like a leather jacket
and he's like put this on, you look like a
fucking badass, and then like legging bejeweled.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Stuff, thongs, but like mostlys but yeah, Monday through Friday,
Banobo's Sundays are for the pirate shirts. What do they eat? Well?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Like he was raw for a while and I feel
like now he's not fully raw, but it is pretty
like Bootable.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, he traces like his relationship with raw dieting to
like when he's neglecting his relationships and stuff, and he's like,
I'd fallen off the raw wagon, right, I like, so
like I'm a Cali sober daddy and I only do
like ayahuasca with my daughter.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Like and of course you so Cali sar being like, yeah,
am I sober from alcohol? Absolutely? Do I still smoke weed? Absolutely?
Do I still do ayahuasca? Absolutely? We all have her
own journey in that journey is queer.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But he's not putting Molly up his ass. That's like
Mom's house anymore.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
No, I don't know if he's oil pulling, but yeah,
I think he's just like salmon Bootable.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So it's not totally wrong that salmon's roasted.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I think the salmon's roasted. And we've like because then
he's always talking about like Bethany's eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
For their issues, we're gonna have to get anything.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
That's a whole other book, and like working for the
Mega Formation gym again what it's just like.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
They're always like two minutes away from joining an actual cult.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
The whole entire time. When he says that at some
point we went from dressing his hippies to dressing fully rockabilly,
that's like, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, the pipeline, the hippy to rockabilly pipeline, and like
they're being so like skull.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Scarf and and I feel like getting in different ayahuasca
cults where he's like, we were on one journey and
a guy became really violent, so I started to protect Bethany,
and I said, oh, we have to go right now.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
So he signed up for like a five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
We'll try a different one. Who are you? And the book? Goodness,
so many awesome people in this book. I feel like,
you're not Gabriel, No, you're not read. Read is more closeted. Yeah,
are you his fabulous grandma who has tons of gold?
(52:22):
I get you? Yeah. I was like, I'm the family's
grandma's like tons and I'm always, oh, his grandmother like
does curse someone with the Sicilian evil eye at some
point to get a role in high school? And he's like,
and then all of a sudden, the person who is
the star started vomiting.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
I kind of do think that I am like Sarah
Paxton or like Chase Crawford, like doing the door poetry.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah, like one crazy six weeks. Yeah, and there's like
tons of Facebook albums of your crazy six weeks, but
you don't really talk to Nico.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I give this book no other reading, but five top
buns out of five. This is one of the most
I think.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Actually, our rating system is super binary, so I am
not going to give this a number. I'm just going
to say that this book is all ratings.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
That's so awesome. That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Did it need to be written absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Not, absoluutely. Did we need to hear Nico's story about
transferring to loyal mirror amount and oil pulling and sticking
a spoon up his ass? Maybe maybe not. Yeah, Well,
some awesome queer folk find this in a thousand years,
and this will be an ancient text of what it's
(53:39):
like to do ayahuasca and then get a house in
Calabasas and have peapads.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Maybe maybe this will really open some doors.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
I just want to highlight there is a feature on
our online store where you can buy books that we've
read as a guest. Thanked you, and I think if
you're going to buy a present for someone, buy.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
This book, Well you can't actually pick.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
What I'm just saying. This next person is going.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
To get this book, is going to get this book
and we will sign it, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, and I'll leave my little post its in here too.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah you get.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
I just think this is honestly the funniest present to
get any Ally.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
It's pretty funny. Great ally gift. Okay, Okay, back best.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
I want to thank you some of my lovers. Producer
Darby Masters, we were together on and off for seven years.
He taught me what bottoming was our supervising producers a Bouzafar.
What we did together as teens shaped me forever. You
are a wolf in women and men's clothing.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
This podcast was executive produced by Christina Everett. Christina, you
have been there through the glory and the trauma and
my addiction. It would have been a fucking mess. And
I can't thank you enough for being my medicine and
a crazy, fucked up world. But Heath Frasier, you are
my God and my angel, my patronis my pala Santle,
(55:07):
my dragon's blood, and you also audio engineered this episode
our music was done by Steph Philip's first Stephen, you
are a storyteller and the stories that you tell will
change minds, hearts and help people achieve the more authentic
version of themselves. Thank you for all the work you do.
(55:28):
Our queer journey began with Prologue projects and we moved
onto iHeart after that journey, but we do want to
acknowledge them as being so instrumental to the beginning of
our queer journey.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
We wouldn't even be having a queer journey if it
wasn't for them, and what is being queer? But if
having podcasts on different.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Networks period, please write a review of our queer Journey
on that BOL podcasts.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Any lovers who I forgot to mention, No, I think
of you every single day.
Hey, club kids, Summer is upon us, and summer is.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Such a good time to slow down and reconnect with
your friends and make new friends.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Pick up a seashell and smell.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It quietly, grill a hot talk.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Talk to your best friend for hours, go on a
beach walk.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
This summer at CBC, we're doing what we call every
other Summer.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Where we'll be releasing a new episode every other week
on the main feed.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
And the weeks that there is not a main feed episode,
that's when you're getting a VIP lounge.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
You still get an episode every week, but just every
other week for main and VIP. Do you get what
we're talking.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
You're saying there are no stupid questions if you don't.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
So, welcome to every other summer. Slow down, take stock,
be here, now, take a sip.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Listen every other summer.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
Who's that knocking at the door. It's all your friends.
You've filthy horse, your husband's gone, and we've got books
and a bottle of wine to kill. It's Hollywood, it's books,
it's gossip. I'm shook, it's memoir, it's Martini. Celebrity book
Club to read it while it's hot.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Celebrity book Club.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Tell your secrets.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
We won't talk celerity books.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
No boys are loud celet book say it loud and poud.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Celebrity book Club. Buzz me in, I brought the queer voe. Hello,
best friend, partner.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
I am so proud to be here today.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I feel so grateful of our sisters and brothers and
awesome humans before us that let us hear.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
All of the nibblings who have laid the groundwork for us.
The Niecks is all, and next Views and next Views
who have built railroads that we have crossed, and we
would not be sitting here today as part of the
outspoken network on iHeartRadio, which reaches sixty eight percent of
Americans every week.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Radio is one of the most queer forms of media
if you think about it, so true historically going back
to radio plays when men would play women. Yes, I
would say radio is the non binary of media.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Absolutely, there are no binaries here, not one.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Welcome to Pride Monthly, Welcome to.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Prime month Club. Kids. We're so proud. I've never been
more prime.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
I'm so proud of you for listening. However, you identify to.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Be a member of the LGBTQA plus community. In twenty
twenty four is a radical act.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Sorry, as the author of our book, who we will
soon reveal at a queer pace. So slowly they say LGBTQ,
I A K A in there.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
He put a P and a K in there.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
They put a ban a gay in there.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I think he actually identifies as he now. Well, according
to the book, the book is actually quite oldly and
I don't know if you know this, but gender is fluid.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, gender is absolutely fluid. Okay, before we get started,
let's find out what our author Rex identifies as so
we can just kind of know going forward. Well, the
wiki says Torella uses nay them, but also identifies his
father and demisexual.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Demi sexual father. No, but I was just on his
if you look on his Insta and he's just like,
my gender is a journey and there's nothing wrong with
me moving through my non binary prom.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
And Bethany the wife is identifying as she they.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I think she's still she's still shaved head.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, and the way and I'll go between they and
he goes in the book he identifies as they. But
you think recently, yeah, more fluid or are you just
seeing I guess.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What I'm trying to help you understand, because it's Pride Monthly,
is that gender is actually fluid, and so you're like
desperate attempt to cling to these fixed ideas about gender.
It's actually super harmful, I guess, because it's I just
want it super colonial.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I just want you to walk you in as I
know you're someone from the colonial state of Massachusetts, so
I know your upbringing. You have these really rigid, rigid,
almost pilgrim like values.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
Right again, so the rigidity is actually coming from you
not letting him change his pronouns over the course of
his career, both sexually and professionally.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I guess I'm going from fair text and quoting them.
I'm just coming from a place of respect, is all
I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
And I want you to come from a place of evolution.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
This is a book of evolution, so we're each going
to choose our own path.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yes, I think that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
That's so beautiful because podcasting is also fluid, and Nico,
you can reach out. Okay, who are we talking about?
Bride month wouldn't be anything without the person we're talking about.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So true, what an essential part of the rainbow.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Fabric we're talking about? Of course, Nico Torturella, the love
interest on the show Younger, which was a show on
I think FX and Hulu maybe free for starring Sutton Foster,
Hillary Duff and Nico about a forty year old woman
(05:32):
who pretends to be twenty six in order to get
a job back and publishing.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
And Sutton Foster is you're saying that name like it's
also a name that people are knowing, which I think
is going to be tough.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Sutton Foster is like known for being like a nineties star.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
What was she in the nineties?
Speaker 2 (05:50):
She was on Bunheads.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Oh you know her from bun Head, Sutton Foster.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Yeah, and she was very big on Broadway Snoopy, the
music Flight of the Concords. She's a a Broadway star.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Okay, Anyway, you probably definitely don't know Nicom Tortorella, even
if you are a fan of Younger.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And Nico plays like a totally like Fedoro wearing like
Williamsburg living love interest who's tatted and dates something Foster
in it. But Nico Tortorella wrote an insane book about
coming out as non binary and being poly and poll.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
And beingual and being by and being an addict yeah,
and like to his credit, he is not like just
a straight guy who came out as non binary. Like
he is absolutely by he's like bottoming and really tells
you about the experience of votamine and.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Like explains what a prostate is and how.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
Bottom collapses ideas of massaging, but also in some way
sort of raifizes them if you.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Will, I would say, also raises them, yes, yeah, yeah,
celebrates them you can. So this book is like completely
insane and I've been waging basically a campaign for us
to read this since twenty eighteen. Yeah, because I watched Younger,
of course, because Love Me, a Hillary Duff publishing led
(07:24):
television show. And when I was watching Younger, I wouldn't
say I was like, oh my god, like Nico Torturella
is like looks so good.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
In this episode. I was talking to a friend of
ours who literally watches Younger, yeah, and she was just like, mmm,
I'm gonna know that is He was like, oh right,
yeah the guy, yeah, tell you his name for the
life of me. I mean, his acting career is very
like so CW and just like this very sub level
(07:53):
where it's just like CWA. As you're working, you're in
these random shows that are all like C level, D level.
He's always in.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Like a hoodie and will be like it was a
huge year because like I got cast in The Beautiful
Life on CW, and I was like, I've never seen
The Beautiful Life.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Which is the show there for seven episodes with Misha.
Speaker 2 (08:13):
Barbon right, and then they'll be like I was fucking
devastated when The Beautiful Life was canceled. But the way
Nico I think thinks he's famous is I think he
thinks he's brought what being a non binary actor is
to Hollywood. Like the way he writes this book is
(08:33):
so like self congratulatory.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
It's completely It's just like I know that I'm actually
the craziest fucking gender warrior of all time.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Like I'm the biggest fucking trailblazer in the entire world.
Like I kind of introduced what a poly marriage was
like to Hollywood.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I mean the very beginning, he goes, whether you found
this book or this book found you, We're about to
embark on this journey in town. This book comes alive
with you with your imagination. You are the life the conduit.
No matter the reaction, Thank you again. I love you.
All of it is you, saying I love you to
(09:13):
the reader book to read on page one.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Well, I mean he is Polly. Yeah, so that's going
to make sense. We're Polly with Nico.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Yeah no, we're now in a relationship. We're absolutely in
after reading this book, like you're a part of the cule.
You're kind of forced into this cool I mean the
way you talk. So the whole book is basically not
really so much.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
About younger, younger famous.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Or Hollywood's career. Really, it's really just like his sexual
journey and like all of the girls that he dates
and then and then some men, men and he dates, and.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Just like some of the transfems he dates, and mostly
also it's about just like kind of the most traditional
story you've ever heard, Like he they marries Bethany, and
they have his wife and they have a kid.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
But Bethany, as he calls to my wife, my husband,
my best friend, muse, butt head, soulmate, twin flame, Bethany,
Christina Myers, Torturella, baby, baby baby, none of this matters
without you. All of it has always been all of
it is you. All of it is you is a
phrase he loves to say.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Well and He loves to say twin flame about Bethany,
which is like they're cold, very cult, and there was
that insane like Netflix cult DOLC. And it's like the
whole time Nico will be dating other people and be like, well,
they had to get along with my twin flame Bethany.
Bethany who is identifying as a lesbian currently in Dallas.
Speaker 1 (10:49):
Bethany identifies as a Delasian. Let's be in for like
half the book, and then obviously all his relationships end
because he's like getting Bethany involved in them, and she's
like toxically being like this person's bad for you. And
then like writing the breakup Female with the guy Gabriel
that was so crazy.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Okay, let's just jump in. He dates this like extremely
powerful Central American rich person named Gabriel, who we don't
know who that is. That's like a fake name, and
he whisks him away to Vegas and he's gone sober
this time. And then he falls off the wagon with
(11:27):
Don Julio in nineteen forty two and basically they fall
so fucking in love and it's insane, and Gabriel is
letting him try on his chief on she leather jackets
right off the runway.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Okay, so they meet at a club or something, and
then Gabriel's like, You're coming to Vegas with me the
next day? Who the fuck was this man? I honestly
had no idea. I'd packed my bag with all the
essential designer clothing, and as I rolled up on the tarmac,
I saw him softer than the night before, even more beautiful.
He was sober, unarmored, and a little nervous in a
cue way, which only made me more interested. We sat
(12:06):
side by side on the short flight as if we
known each other forever. There was no small talk. Everything
went straight to the heart immediately, childhood hopes and dreams,
all of it. We ride with the hotel and headed
straight to the presidential suitet gabrielaed booked. I'd never seen
a room full of these epic proportions other than the movies.
A proper food spreader was laid out, a fire already
burning the fireplace in his room of the corn my
eye I saw Butler shining a row of already immaculate shoes.
(12:30):
Where did these come from? The luggage and staff had
flown in a separate plane, but I couldn't imagine everyone
travel with so much. The butler smiled and without actually smiling,
and I'd realized he'd seen this reaction before. Okay, wait,
blah blah blah, then the oh, okay wait. I took
him by his stubled face, his skin a few shades
darker than mine, his breath warm, and ever so slightly
touched my lips to his. I knew not to give
(12:50):
it all up too quickly, so I threw off the
jacket and ran out of the closet all over again.
And it's being like this book is all about like
man always having scruff and him being like way.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Like face reminds me of my dad.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
But then he goes he hadn't asked me what I preferred,
but he got the drink right, of course. A Don
Julio nineteen forty two on the rocks with a splash
of soda.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Can I just say that is like the most celebrity thing,
like Christian cavalariy Chloe Kardashian. It's like celebrities want one thing.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
It's Don Julio on the rocks, splash of something.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Yeah, maybe it's twisted of one. That's all I want.
Speaker 1 (13:22):
It's really true this happens like I don't know what
it is when you're like basic and rich.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
I mean it's because also which we're always trying to do,
like t Kila SODA's like in a with the low
cow version, but it's also like tequila keeps you up
and it's kind of like this crazy and like.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
There's an episode of Below Deck where there's this like
Israeli crue and they like chopp her in don Aglio
nineteen forty two because they get like the Don Julio
nineteen forty eight or something by accident. I'm like, this
girl is just like this is not right, and then
they fully have to chop Rida and Sandy's like so
pissed as She's like fuck, He's like they're the guests.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
And I wonder if I'd be able to tell the
difference between in nineteen forty two and nineteen forty eight
on Julio.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, I'd love to do a blind taste.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
I would love to.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
I bet maybe you could.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I think I could super taster. So also, a lot
of this book is just Nico being like I'm queer
because my father abandoned me. So he actually is saying
like in this way like child abuse makes you gay,
kind of like he's always been like my hot sexy
Italian father moved away when I was eight and I
miss sleeping in his nook of his arm, smelling the
(14:38):
CarMax on his lips.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
Yeah, so basically like he locates the impetuous, the sort
of seed of his homosexuality and sleeping in his dad's
bed with his dad and nestling into the crook of
his arm. And later when he like starts sitting guys
like he will literally reper in the book, he.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Just multiple times.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
Sorry y'all if this sounds weird, but yeah, he reminded
me of my dad, and I liked like resting my
head on the chest of a man, and that makes
me think of my dad and it brought me last
when I was ten.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
And abandonment is queer. And it's also like him doing
this thing where it's like that where it's just anything.
He's trying to relate it as like this is what
queerness is.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Well, I guess because that's sort of the whole point
of the book.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Is queerness is everything, and the binary reinforcing.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
The book is just like a story of gender, of
fluidity and sexuality that ultimately doesn't lead you on a
journey to having a baby.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
With the woman from Chicago who may identify she's a
It is extremely inked up.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
An ink is queer, I mean about queer because it's
about owning your body. I mean, I mean he is
basically saying all these like kind of truisms about like
modern queer culture, which is basically.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
Just like us drugs and being inked and having an
symmetrical haircut. It's a lot of this. Like his first
description of one of his early apartments, I pulled out
one of the treasures I'd taken from Grandma, a wooden trunk.
I had a postered and painted with pagan symbols, which
now housed the wine and weed. I was the only
(16:17):
kid on the floor who had a bong, so the
pouty commenced. Bethany wound up staying later than everyone else.
We talked Lan into the night about religion and programming,
getting high and drinking tubac chuck. His family sounds iconic.
His mom is like a sassy Italian woman who owns
like seven bars and like Greater Chicago. His grandmother is
(16:39):
like an angry, homophobic, sassy Italian woman who owns a
vintage store. His stepdad works in the Chicago Stock Exchange,
and then his dad is like also like a brawny
Italian man.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I forget, but the dad was there. Their dad like trash.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Waste management, classic Italian job, and like he's always been
like my dad was essentially so queer because he didn't
care about money and he only got a job at
waste management because like my mom got him that job
and wasment It's like yeah, sure, and he's always like
(17:18):
barring like fabulous gold of rings from his grandmother, but
being like, fuck, my grandmother said something really homophobic. But
I love her and I'll always be there for her.
I mean it's kind of very my diary about my
grandmother because I was obsessed with her and I was
always writing the diary as a thirteen fourteen year old
kind of like coming to terms of my sexuality and gender,
(17:40):
being like, I wonder if my grandmother would like me
if she just met me we were related.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Oh right, if we met your grandmother at a bar?
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Yeah, it was just and I was like, yeah, like
if we were just random roommates, would she be able
to like handle me blaming my bunk CDs.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
She met your freak, so to speak. Yeah, I don't know.
That's what's so tough about family. Yeah, this is part
of the beginning. I prefer to say that there's fluidy
to all of this and nothing is fixed. But if
you still need a label to help process who I
am in terms of my sexual gender identity, I am
comfortable today calling myself a queer, non binary, bisexual, or
(18:19):
pan sexual, depending on the social context. Se antics, happily married, polyamorous,
non monogamous human being.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yes, say it loud.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
How he also has a spinal disease, which is very Yes.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
That is very gay. And at the end of the
book he's like, thank freaking God, I'm not in a
back brace. Yeah, and you're like, thank God too.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I know two gays who have spine issues, and I also.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
You always say you have some spine.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
Issues diagnosed with mild.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Say it loud and proud.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Okay, I am a polyamorous, non monogamous, happily married, spinally
challenged rammy sectual Ridgewood, citizen of.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
This earth, of this earth. So I'm not sure if
he goes to my alma mater school's art suit or
Columbia College I'm guessing he went to no and he
(19:25):
makes like just like fucking awesome collages.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
It sounds like, yeah, he's really into art. Throughout the book,
there's the large art piece he makes like in high
school that he has to destroy with his father, and
that's really cathartic bonding thing.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
He makes a huge kind of makes media piece, goes
to art school, meets twin Flame Bethany. They have this
like amazing connection, but he goes out. He transfers to
Loyola Marramount.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
Yeah, that's why it's like, I don't think you transfer
se a C to Loyal and Marrimount. I think that's
more of a Columbia college.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, it' like art and marketing. And of course this
book ends up with like ayahuasca, because every celebrity and
it starts with this is like his college dorm. I
positioned a Muslim prayer rug with a clear picture of
Mecca at the center of its red fringe wool in
front of my altar cross culture. Sometimes contradictory religious figures
are dain the mess shelving always with the proper amount
(20:22):
of nog champa burning. I was honoring all these art
types without ever really knowing who were what they were,
like coloss at college where you're just like.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Buddha prayer flags.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Other stuff from the Free.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Prayer Rug, lots of just like fish flat, yeah, like
going being like wait, like discovering like one Mexican shop
and being like, I found the most amazing candles.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
But so he moves out to La and is like,
fuck it, I need to try like acting, man, I'm
gonna do this, and like gets a job at like
a raw food restaurant, and it's heavily in influenced by
this aunt and uncle who are raw fuddists the whole book.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, and it's really traumatic later when they moved.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
To the Florida way, let's break that down for a second.
Throughout this entire book, it's like the dad kind of
abandoning and then that makes sense to me. But he
has this uncle who, when he's like twenty five, moved
from Chicago to Florida, and he's like, they didn't fucking
tell anyone. Yeah, and they still won't talk about it.
(21:26):
But I was really just like and like, I'm torn
to fucking pieces that my uncle moved to Florida.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I don't even live in Chicago and you're upset that
you're he lived in la at the time, the most
normal thing a retired Italian tiny American couple to move
to Florida from being cold to warm.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, and then looking and then the uncle's planting a
palm tree.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
And the palm tree falls on him and he breaks
his legs, but he won't let me go come and
take care of him because.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
He didn't want to show his weakness. Yeah, and the queerness.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
And the queerness of not showing your weakness when your
legs at crushed by a palm tree.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So let's get to his kind of first interaction with
anal play.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
But just to wrap up the art loop, So he's
in this kind of like thruple while he's shooting this
movie twelve again, something that no one has ever seen?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You ever heard of? The movie twelve No?
Speaker 1 (22:16):
And it's with all these young kids and there's actually
a ton of famous people in it. And Jeremy Allen
White isn't it? And Zoe Kravitz isn't it?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
And Chase Crawford iscent, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (22:25):
And he gets in this threttle and I do kind
of think Chase Crawford is the guy in it because
I've heard that Trace Crawford does go to events, pink
washed events, no, like sex events.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's so awesome. Yeah, I've heard that, but I hope
you aren't outing anyone on pride mind. I would never
actually kind of well, actually your business.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
You can go to an event and not identify as anything,
and you can be a polyamorous.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Tons of events and I don't identify as zero identity. Yeah,
one single thing.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
But he goes there was a boy and a girl
in this movie. Immediately formed a bond that I can't
help but beam with absolute soul full joy when I
think about one night we got pretty fucked up at
a party and wound up all looking up at the bathroom,
pretty innocently and pretty straight. Two boys in young love
with one starlet. This was my first real polyamorous situationship.
We would spend days in her apartment and Soho writing poetry,
(23:16):
blasting music, making short films, and just being free. She
went out of town one weekend and he and I
stayed at my apartment for two days, painting hot air
balloons and romantic verse on this door we had found
in the street in the East Village. When she got
back in town. It was pouring, ran outside, and he
and I wrapped the door in garbage bags and walked
to her apartment to surprise her with it as a present.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Fucking magic, okay, and guessing who the girl in this?
I think it is Zoe Kravitz. Yeah, because I'm like
writing poetry and blasting music.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
And also soho. She's so soft and soho for like six.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Weeks and leaving him being like, you can do whatever
the fuck you want, Ohndred. But then she comes back
and it's actually really pissed and doesn't remember that.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
She says that that's the start of also her like
secret evil bisexual.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Art, and then more art when he gets his own
loft and five eye. I bought some eight foot tall
wooden fence and from home depot and split the space
into three large rooms, two bedrooms in a sprawling living room,
and painted the apartment in bright colors and geometric patterns.
This was my first real New York loft, and I
was gonna make it a gallery. I hung artwork all
(24:29):
around the apartment, overlapping pieces at odd angles, as if
they had just fallen from an earthquake in heaven or
rather the underworld highly curated, highly imagine, highly free, like.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
The most fucking psychotic ugly apartment. It sounds like mao Wolf,
doesn't that like the interactive art installation?
Speaker 2 (24:52):
I know a former CEO of mal former CEO.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Yes, characters share.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
My sister's close friends. Oh listener of the pod. Good
for that?
Speaker 1 (25:02):
Yeah, well we love We think it's so interesting and
it's really cool the kind of immersive experiences that you
guys created over it.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
But really Nico is very like in turn Wolf.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
I mean his whole athetic because it's all triangles and
I want and.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Bright colors and mecca and again religious and this is
like sleeve no more plus me I will plus like
movie about performance art when he gets sober and he
starts making big paintings and he jerks off on all
the paintings and uses his com as a varnish.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
He's just so housive. Yes, which is this that's ultimately
us space in Bushwick. That's so just like all these
guys who are like such realtors, Like.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
It's a key they realtors where it's like Nico's gender.
And I did look actually in this recent People article
and in the written form so on People dot com.
He prefers he.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Him on people dot Com.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
Well, and that's a thing straight publication.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
And gender is fluid, and sometimes when you're flowing into
people dot Com, you're he.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
I just feel like the patriarchy, the people dot Com
is forcing him and to heed him. And this is
an article about his new of course children's book, which
we'll be doing. All of vet is you, olivet.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Oh, not all of it is you.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
No, it's about I think a girl name Yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
He's really trying to like brand himself as having this
phrase all of it is you and this is his
just like this faces that are coming out, all of
it is you.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
And that's like about self acceptance. And I was wondering
about come be as someone who went to art school.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Yeah, were there are a lot of guys doing the common paintings.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
I was surprised that no, but maybe if I continued
on the painting major, I would see that more. Like
I remember a guy like definitely like shitting in a
box in our dorm. We had like the top floor
was the studio, and a guy like shitt in a
box as his art. Yeah, and then was like asking
people to come over and be like come over and
check this out.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
Up.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, he is now passed, so that.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Is okay, Lily, that's really fucked up.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
I'm just saying the truth.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
You're making fun of the dead.
Speaker 2 (27:22):
I'm not making fun of the dead. I'm literally just
saying art that was made by someone who's dead, which
is very cool artist.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
No, that's true cool artists. We talked about Picasso, Yeah,
I mean shitting the box is now more interesting than
rather exactly because he died.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
And then I remember a guy did make like a
sixteen millimeter film of like him sucking his girlfriend. Okay,
but others, And I remember my teacher was so just like,
this is actually boring.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
And that was so shocking. Yes, the first time you
heard someone call sex boring.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
And was like, you think if you just film yourself
having sex and black and white, that's art.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I was like no, and he was like so sh shamed.
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Wow. Yeah. Did you guys all watch it?
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Could you see penetration?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah? It was missionary guy on top.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Okay, you saw a lot of ass. Okay, oh, so
you weren't seeing like the actual like side view of
the dick going down.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
No more ass thrusting? Yeah, girl, spread legs.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Okay, I feel like that's not as maybe bold as no.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
I think he probably could have gone bolder.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
I mean Andy Warhol famously has this video that's like
a guy getting a blowjob, but you don't see.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You see just like the face, right, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Like him getting it, but you don't see the actual
blow portion.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
And it's like just Nico is the most art school
person on earth because it's just like him being like, yeah,
I came on a collage, I made my Calabasas home.
Speaker 1 (28:48):
He doesn't actually go to art schools. It's like the
art is so.
Speaker 2 (28:52):
Well you went to Flemia College, which isn't art school, okay, right,
but like so recognize that.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
I guess it would be like more art school if
he were like, yeah, I'm making these paintings right now,
and like it's taking me like nine months and I'm
being such an alcoholic about it and like but then
maybe you're finally seeing them. But like, I feel like
it's not so art school to be like I'm moving
to a lot and immediately hanging like upside down like
red canvases everywhere.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Well, at least that's just the only thing I'll give
him is just that like he actually isn't trying to
have a gallery showever of his like art.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
I don't know if it's looked at that people article
a little bit more. He probably does have an art
show that's just like it's actually like an installation in
a yoga studio because he's so the global yoga community
and top onun.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
And he does this thing where he assumes we all
know what Bethany's Jim that she teaches at is named,
like he's always He.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
Was like, yeah, her workout career was like really taking off, and.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He was like, we weren't together at the time, but
we had this rule where if one of us called
two times in a row, we had to pick up.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
The two call rules just kind of us. It is
of us, And no, I was like, I guess that's beautiful,
and like, who do you have the two phone call rule? Right?
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Just like you know, even if you haven't spoken for years.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Right, if you war dial as we call it, community,
like you're picking up. I feel like I have a
two phone call rule with like maybe a lot of people.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, it's kind of a lot of people, really damn. Okay, Yeah, he's.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Kind of an international signal meaning like, Okay, this is
important if I'm calling again.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
So Hiven Bethany. They break up. He dates this older woman, Jamie,
as he's starting to become an actor, and then with
Jamie that's when he gets into ass play.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
That's before he meets Red on The New Mexico.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, it kind of preps his more gay interaction. So
he's like Jamie, who is like older and like also
an actress, was like, Jamie was really into oil pulling,
so how coeer is this? They kept a huge jug
of coconut oil by their bed, and he was like,
we just had this fucking cosmic relationship. We even like
kiss for the first time. For our first year. We
(31:01):
just slept in the same bed, drinking wine, having conversations.
And then one night she's he sticks a spoon up
his ass.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah, and he's like it was a spoon.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I'm so weird and he's like, not the main side
of the spoon, you sickos. And then it's like, actually,
sorry for king shaming anyone who does like stick up
the like spoon, end up your ass, do whatever you
want on some humans.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, that was kind of triggering for me.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Have you spooned?
Speaker 1 (31:33):
No, but I did put another object of my ass once.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I won't pry it was. That's actually like clothes cap on.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Got fun it. I put it inside of a condom.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
Safety first, remember this pride. We can't have pride if
we are not safe.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
But then it kind of like went like all the
way up in. Yeah, like you lost it. I lost it.
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Okay, boom stick down, boot stick down. Wait, this is
so jackass, dude, let's put glue up your ass.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
That's very jackass. And then I kind of had to
like root around in there and it was like it
was not easy to get it back out. But luckily
the condom was gave me something.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
To grab pull on. Yea, it was. And I will
say it, that's experimentation.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
I had already had sex with me. I don't know
what I was really hoping for.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
I was you were just playing and queer.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
I was exploring.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Glue is queer because horses, Yeah, and horses one of
them more queer animals.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Hello, they sleeping, standing up.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Enjoying water but not wanting to get like two into it.
I feel like that's very horse. It's like they don't
want to like swim, but they do want to kind
of frolic in the waves.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Right, and horses like are tops, but do get roade?
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Wow, do you think about the queer taxonomy?
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Like even though like if you're you know, an amazing
rider jockey, you have the commands.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
At the end of the day, right, the horse is
the top. The horse is the top, and you're the
jockey is such a bossy bottom, right, So that sort
of paves the way for his anal experience. Then he
falls in love with this guy on this set of
another movie no One's seen in New.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Mexico, in New Mexico, and like, oh, it's a Joel
Shoemaker film, right, and he's amazing.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Way of it was a supernatural thriller called Odd Thomas.
We all know this, like twenty eleven hit Odd Thomas.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Oh classic, Oh my god, Opening Night you have the
Blue Red.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
What I do think is maybe interesting most career is
there's a slight timing issue where it's like his career
started kind of after like the end of real Hollywood,
where it's like, you know, the end of like the
Romcome era and like Blockbusters and like the start of
just like things only being either Marvel or like, yes,
a Netflix show that's like known as Seen. It's like
the start of like the streaming world of everything being
(34:07):
so diffused and so like the world for actual TV
shows and movies in the early twenty tens is kind
of like so dead and there isn't really like well, and.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
I would say also he caught the tail end of
I think like c W shows.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
That was already the like fifth least watch network.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
But The Beautiful Life was like his big breakout stars
quote unquote. He's always like, yeah, so I'm a white
CISK guy with a symmetrical face and is like basically
calling himself like beautiful.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And The Beautiful Life starring Misha Barton and Sarah Paxton, Okay,
Sarah Pataxton, famous star Sarah Paxton who ends up dating.
But it's like he missed being on like VOC or
even like yeah, I guess he could have been on
like Riverdale maybe.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, and if you'd like come of age now, like
maybe he could be on like seven seasons of whatever
like Game of Prones or something that people like. But
but this.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Medium, whether he was like right, a cwten star or
like in an action movie, yeah, it doesn't also seem
in this book that he really like cares even though
he really wants to be an actor.
Speaker 1 (35:15):
Yeah, I don't feel like.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
There's this point where his hair is like one dread
and he's like, yeah, I had super problematic dreadlocks, but
continues to get dreadlocks altered throughout the book, and then
his managers are like, you actually need to stop looking
like so nasty and white heavy, and.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
Then she just the hold thing about her hair is
long and it's feminine and he needs to have short hair.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
That was the first time he was like put in
the closet was when he was told to cut his
long hair.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
Yeah, I had to go back in the closet for
the eighteenth time.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It's like when iHeart told you you had to dye
your hair blonde to stay on the Outspoken network.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
It was really hard, but I was like fine, Like
all I wanted to do is be in the closet
my whole life. I'm forced to million myself in the
Outspoken work every week. So he starts dating this guy. Oh,
he's like, first of all, we both sleep with other
women on set. Then we start dating each other, like
because we finally fall in love, and they FaceTime the girls.
They used to date while they're like in bed together
(36:14):
on this like New Mexican road trip post shooting as.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
This kind of closeted thing, and he's.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Like they were actually totally chill with it, but like
also thought it was weird, and I'm like, that's just
so toxic to me.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
There are so many toxic moments where he's not living
on too probably like how toxic he is, He'll be
like Bethany actually was pretty pissed at me that, like
I didn't tell her I was sleeping in the same
bed as Jamie. Jamie actually was pretty mad at me
that I didn't tell her Bethany was moving to LA.
The girls were actually kind of mad that I was
with Red on this road trip. And it's like you
(36:44):
are just being like a dick, And it's like this
whole point is him being like Polly and deconstruction relationships.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
But it's like, I mean again, and this is the
thing where I'm like all the language around polyamory is
only just like how can I.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Get away with everything and then blame you being mad
at me?
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Right? And I waged my own guilt in the process,
and then take accountability by talking about.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
It A Lee endlessly for hours. And this is part
where he's like, Bethany can't tell me what to do
with my body because that's the patriarchy. But then like
he's telling Bethany that it's the patriarchy for her being
mad at him, which is like goss like boots.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
Okayat But I want to get to this description of botomy.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
And by the way, I was blasting that at full
volume in my cars. I was driving through a torrential
down Poor yesterday and they could hardly hear it, and
I was like volume up to sixty, okay go.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I told him I wanted to bottom for him. I'd
never done that before, and I was scared, but I
also wanted to be vulnerable with him. Something in me
needed this. It's like, yeah, that I'd never had anyone
inside me before. Inside is italicized in the text, by
the way. And when I let Red do this, I
felt like I understood something I hadn't known for the
(38:00):
kind of trust it takes, the openness it takes to
bring someone else inside of you. It's just like yes,
the openness, It's like yeah, Literally, it was a breaking
open for me, a kind of sacred stillness that came
in after it was over. I was aware of my
vulnerability of my own body. You know how it's acceptable
(38:21):
or more acceptable for men to have sex with other
men as long as they maintain the position of dominance
of only toppying, never being entered. How men who bottom
are looked down upon. I think part of that reason
for this is that the act does upend what it
means to be a man. To bottom, you have to
admit your vulnerability, to welcome it, to give up control.
(38:42):
And it changed me, made me feel another part of myself.
We're taught in sexual education that men have a penis
to insert, but what we're not taught is the sacred
power of our prostinate. So let's talk about the prostate.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Y'all. Y'all see this book. Drink every time they say.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
Y'all, it just get this walnut size glan is located
inside the rectum. It's just a protect sperm, say misogenes.
Stimulation can be both exciting and beneficial to one's health. Now,
it's just very like.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Ourselves, like whoa, whoa, whoa hold on. It seems like
in our society masculinity is favored over being the bottom.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
It's so burning made because he's so.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
Like having these realization.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Long hair who are all like, we're actually protecting our
sacred seed together. And that's why doing like an insane
circle jerk where we're all wearing leather necklaces and beads,
the patriarchs fighting the patriarchy, and we all have like
Chinese character tattoos that were taking accountability for being problematic
while getting more because he.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Was like, my mom, who's fucking hilarious but really problematic,
took me to get a Chinese tattoo, and then he
covers it up with like a cross made of typewriter letters.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, and then you see when he goes awask a
Brew and he's just like and actually, Ian, the guy
who was Dat at the time, opened my eyes to
how problematic it is for SISS pass.
Speaker 2 (40:20):
Pass white passing, white.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
Passing privileged, beautiful, symmetrical, hot, rich actors to go to Peru.
And I'm going to go back, and that's a really
important conversation to have. But nonetheless, here I am in
Peru and.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
He's like, and here I was with my with my
she they lover, and how much like we had an
amazing time on Aya and he's like we'll cover maybe
that at another time. Speaking of his style, this part
of when he's discovering kind of his fluidity. I bought
an antique sewing machine from the late eighteen hundreds, one
(40:59):
of those heavy duty steel singers that was strong enough
to punch through leather. I was making these incredible recycled
animal skin saddle bags with intricate embroidery and repurpose crystal jewelry.
In the months before the pilot, tute I made tons
of trickets to wear his ornamental armor bags and fast
and necklaces, all with personal signa trick very much curing
(41:21):
the Nico torturella. Everyone's going to meet. This is right
before the beautiful life. So it's like bottoms once makes
saddle bags. But then also it's becoming so burning man
because of course it has to be on an eighteen
hundred sewing machine.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
Well, I feel like burning them now is very just
like you're ordering your like Sanskrit off Amazon.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
It's very like sheen Amazon based. The other thing about
him being toxic is we like learn about his kind
of addiction and like because he'll be like h Ashton
Kutcher like yelled at me for doing coke.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
At the Boom Boom room. Right. That is very Ashton though,
to be like, dude, what the fuck, dude?
Speaker 2 (42:02):
Not cool, dude, this is your fucking career. If you
want to blow it all up your nose, fine with me,
but not on my watch.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Like you could be the next me.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, like you could star in the sequel to Twelve Brothers. Meanwhile,
Demi is like.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
Od ing on twelve in the other room, and he's
just like, not cool, dude. I have to go to
like a zoom meeting for one of my several startups
about stopping child trafficking.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
It seems like his addiction though. He's always peeing everywhere,
which is the thing that other theme.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Yeah, he pees in like his mom's plant, and then
when him and best one night after he sleeps with
his stepdad's coworker.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, his parents moved to Calabasas and they have this
like big party and basically he's still in this closet
relationship with Red co star of the famous movie twelve.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
No No No co star of Thomas.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Sorry, I get mixed up with my favorite movies and
to prove to his family that he's straight. And this
is what the patriarchy will do to you. He sleeps
with his step father's.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
Coatworker Walred is there, which is so fucked up, and
I guess he's like chucking it from actually because of
the patriarchy that I did this, that I like cheated
on my boyfriend in front of him.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
And like pissed all over my mother's house and like
broke all of her pool fences. And also of course
he has like ten tiny puppies throughout this entire.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Time, Like our family of six was so beautiful me Jamie,
our pubs.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Like there was pea pets everywhere, and it's like, is
it the patriarchy?
Speaker 1 (43:46):
And this was okay? Also so queer when he talks
about the house he bought where he buys the tortoise, Oh,
and it gives away returns it for a Boa constructor.
And I'm just like the amount of pets being re
homed casually, Oh, Lena.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Dumham to the boot, I like where And he's like,
I was actually afraid of achers and boa constricers are queer,
and so to get into my demisexual iness, I had
to conquer the fear of boas.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
That was so I'm afraid of boas so I have
to buy one, but we'll have to like throw away
my tortoise, Like.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
Yeah, just trash the tortoise. Stump it.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Well. He is actually a villain, like full villain.
Speaker 2 (44:25):
Completely insane villain and kind of Yeah, the climax of
this book, besides the ayahuasca and like marrying Bethany at
a fucking beautiful city hall like ceremony after I feel
like Bethany like d lesbians. Yeah, basically he's the man,
and he's like we had been deconstructing Bethany's lesbians for
(44:49):
quite some time.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
I Mean there's this scene where it's like they go
to dinner and it's him and Gabriel, the rich like
mysterious Central American guy.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
And Bethany and her found at the.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Time, and he's like, it was so fucking crazy because
even though I was like the feminine one in my
relationship with Gabriel, I was on a past skill and
role in my relationship with beth.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
What.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Oh my god, my mind's being blown. You're top with
your girlfriend, but at bottom with your like huge rich
Latin white friend.
Speaker 2 (45:21):
And he's like, and Bethany was the top with her girlfriend,
and it's like, you know, Bethany was just being so
half shaved, tatted and like had just a slightly more
femin half shaved.
Speaker 1 (45:34):
But then it's like, as the book is on, like
he's becoming this like famous gender fluid person in his eyes, in.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
His eyes except for like this awesome trans family performance
artist like breaks down, like how fucking white he is.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
And he cries and is like thank you for taking
me in and.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
And he's being like, I haven't cried that much since
seeing Rent the musical.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
This is like when he starts to think he's really
starting making in the queer world. In the early half
of twenty seventeen, I was doing tons of cover stories
that interviews in queer magazines like four two nine, Alexa,
Gay Times, John all capitals with an accent on the
O and paper, Holy shit, you were in the cover
(46:18):
of four two nine and Alexa.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
My friend Christian Siriano dressed me in this asymmetrical electric
green zebra print suit, jacket and skirt. In my opening monogue.
This is at the gladiwords my opening monologue, I said, hey,
guess what we made it to Earth. We have no
idea why we're really here, but we have bodies, We
have minds. We have spirits, we have laughter and rainbows
every color of the spectrum. We have community. We have
(46:43):
our elders that pave the way. We have our youth
who are rewriting what it means to be queer. And
now we have each other.
Speaker 1 (46:48):
Period.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
And then the following night, I wore a strapless black
and white billowy sleeve cottail gown to the glad Awards
and Bethany wore a classic masculine suit. Period genderfu great period.
It's like, I think women have been wearing suits for
a while now, Marlina Dietrich anyone. Yeah, but he's like, no,
(47:12):
I wore a pirate shirt and my wife wore a suit,
So handle that, bitches.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
And then he invited to be the keynote speaker at
her conference, Her the app. I don't know why it's
called the Her Conference, but it's about like me too
and like women in the industry, and Bethany's really pissed.
Then he gets asked to speak at the her conference.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Oh, because like, how.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Dare the her conference invite you to speak, let alone keynote?
But then he taxes performance are queer? They friend a
locke who says, yes, you should do this, they will
get I gets so important to occupy these women's spaces.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
They're like, take over the women's spaces, and.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
That he does, that's how great.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
Sting my non binary friend being like, hey, do you
think it's okay for me to take over a space?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
And they're like.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
Absolutely, don't listen to your bidg as wife segment.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
What does she eat?
Speaker 2 (48:22):
What does she wear?
Speaker 1 (48:23):
How does she live?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
How does she live? Fucking collages everywhere, geometric shapes, peapads everywhere.
Speaker 1 (48:30):
Like the Chaos, the queer.
Speaker 2 (48:33):
Chaos, antlers, painted antlers.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
And it's religious and it's mural.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
And it's more Muslim rugs.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Are and it's just like so crystal girl, and there's
crystals and there's plants, and there's so much hanging rope everywhere,
and their sex swing is like in the living room.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
And there's also Guido fabulousness from his grandmother's antique store.
Speaker 1 (48:55):
It's just the most like chaotic mix of disgusting aesthetics
that you can mad to know in one place.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
And then I feel like the kitchen is just so.
Speaker 1 (49:03):
Normal hashtag normal kitchen.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
What is he? They wear fucking everything from flat brims
to pirate charts.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
I feel like his dad's style now it is the
most normal, like a soft henly beanie, like thin necklace
with like maybe not a bullet, but maybe yes a
bullet because it's like reclaiming the patriarchy or something.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
And he has like huge tattoos that I feel like
are very Chicago, where it's a huge portrait of his grandmother,
huge portrait of his dad.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
Yeah, portrait of a dog, his brother's name, typewriter.
Speaker 2 (49:37):
As a cross. But yeah, then it is just like
skinny jeans, aloe running sneakers. But then it is like.
Speaker 1 (49:46):
A beanie is at where it's almost floating. It's so bad.
Speaker 2 (49:50):
It's like you're like, how does gravity work that way?
And then it is like probably a shared a costume
closet with Bethany, with all their freakery.
Speaker 1 (49:59):
They can explore gender in different ways.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
Yeah, and it will be just like a leather jacket
and he's like put this on, you look like a
fucking badass, and then like legging bejeweled.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
Stuff, thongs, but like mostlys but yeah, Monday through Friday,
Banobo's Sundays are for the pirate shirts. What do they eat? Well?
Speaker 2 (50:26):
Like he was raw for a while and I feel
like now he's not fully raw, but it is pretty
like Bootable.
Speaker 1 (50:34):
Well, he traces like his relationship with raw dieting to
like when he's neglecting his relationships and stuff, and he's like,
I'd fallen off the raw wagon, right, I like, so
like I'm a Cali sober daddy and I only do
like ayahuasca with my daughter.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Like and of course you so Cali sar being like, yeah,
am I sober from alcohol? Absolutely? Do I still smoke weed? Absolutely?
Do I still do ayahuasca? Absolutely? We all have her
own journey in that journey is queer.
Speaker 1 (51:02):
But he's not putting Molly up his ass. That's like
Mom's house anymore.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
No, I don't know if he's oil pulling, but yeah,
I think he's just like salmon Bootable.
Speaker 1 (51:10):
So it's not totally wrong that salmon's roasted.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
I think the salmon's roasted. And we've like because then
he's always talking about like Bethany's eating disorder.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
For their issues, we're gonna have to get anything.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
That's a whole other book, and like working for the
Mega Formation gym again what it's just like.
Speaker 1 (51:24):
They're always like two minutes away from joining an actual cult.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
The whole entire time. When he says that at some
point we went from dressing his hippies to dressing fully rockabilly,
that's like, of course you did.
Speaker 1 (51:36):
Yeah, the pipeline, the hippy to rockabilly pipeline, and like
they're being so like skull.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Scarf and and I feel like getting in different ayahuasca
cults where he's like, we were on one journey and
a guy became really violent, so I started to protect Bethany,
and I said, oh, we have to go right now.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
So he signed up for like a five thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
We'll try a different one. Who are you? And the book? Goodness,
so many awesome people in this book. I feel like,
you're not Gabriel, No, you're not read. Read is more closeted. Yeah,
are you his fabulous grandma who has tons of gold?
(52:22):
I get you? Yeah. I was like, I'm the family's
grandma's like tons and I'm always, oh, his grandmother like
does curse someone with the Sicilian evil eye at some
point to get a role in high school? And he's like,
and then all of a sudden, the person who is
the star started vomiting.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
I kind of do think that I am like Sarah
Paxton or like Chase Crawford, like doing the door poetry.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Yeah, like one crazy six weeks. Yeah, and there's like
tons of Facebook albums of your crazy six weeks, but
you don't really talk to Nico.
Speaker 1 (52:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:55):
I give this book no other reading, but five top
buns out of five. This is one of the most
I think.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Actually, our rating system is super binary, so I am
not going to give this a number. I'm just going
to say that this book is all ratings.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
That's so awesome. That's so awesome.
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Did it need to be written absolutely.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
Not, absoluutely. Did we need to hear Nico's story about
transferring to loyal mirror amount and oil pulling and sticking
a spoon up his ass? Maybe maybe not. Yeah, Well,
some awesome queer folk find this in a thousand years,
and this will be an ancient text of what it's
(53:39):
like to do ayahuasca and then get a house in
Calabasas and have peapads.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Maybe maybe this will really open some doors.
Speaker 2 (53:50):
I just want to highlight there is a feature on
our online store where you can buy books that we've
read as a guest. Thanked you, and I think if
you're going to buy a present for someone, buy.
Speaker 1 (54:00):
This book, Well you can't actually pick.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
What I'm just saying. This next person is going.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
To get this book, is going to get this book
and we will sign it, which is cool.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
Yeah, and I'll leave my little post its in here too.
Speaker 1 (54:12):
Yeah you get.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
I just think this is honestly the funniest present to
get any Ally.
Speaker 1 (54:17):
It's pretty funny. Great ally gift. Okay, Okay, back best.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
I want to thank you some of my lovers. Producer
Darby Masters, we were together on and off for seven years.
He taught me what bottoming was our supervising producers a Bouzafar.
What we did together as teens shaped me forever. You
are a wolf in women and men's clothing.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
This podcast was executive produced by Christina Everett. Christina, you
have been there through the glory and the trauma and
my addiction. It would have been a fucking mess. And
I can't thank you enough for being my medicine and
a crazy, fucked up world. But Heath Frasier, you are
my God and my angel, my patronis my pala Santle,
(55:07):
my dragon's blood, and you also audio engineered this episode
our music was done by Steph Philip's first Stephen, you
are a storyteller and the stories that you tell will
change minds, hearts and help people achieve the more authentic
version of themselves. Thank you for all the work you do.
(55:28):
Our queer journey began with Prologue projects and we moved
onto iHeart after that journey, but we do want to
acknowledge them as being so instrumental to the beginning of
our queer journey.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
We wouldn't even be having a queer journey if it
wasn't for them, and what is being queer? But if
having podcasts on different.
Speaker 1 (55:46):
Networks period, please write a review of our queer Journey
on that BOL podcasts.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
Any lovers who I forgot to mention, No, I think
of you every single day.
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