Vol. 13: Ken Daneyko

For the thirteenth episode of Charges, Rex brings Ken Daneyko on to the show to talk about overcoming his decades long alcoholism & championship career. Rex & Ken discuss: Being the first in the NHL to publicly utilize the substance abuse program, Growing up in Canada & playing hockey, Being drafted by The New Jersey Devils & getting called up, Losing to The Rangers in 1994 Eastern Conference Finals & Winning his first Stanley Cup Championship in 1995, Going to rehab for the first time, The drinking culture in the NHL & his drinks of choice, When he knew he had a problem, Winning the Stanley Cup again in 2000 & 2003 then the alcohol taking hold of him again, Retirement & the hardest things to deal with in terms of sobriety & more. This episode is not to be missed!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. That's created by Portalais and Control Media. It's produced
by dB Podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
time a former Son's player who you might remember as
t Rex. More video in just a moment, but this
is Rex Chapman's mug Shaun, and we are learning a
lot more about the charge up and charge what's the

(00:22):
drinking culture? Like in the NHL, I was a partier.
I had to be in the action. I wasn't a
guy that just sat at home and drank. It's got
a hold of me again. Please God, take this obsession away.
I was all alone in a crowded room, if that
makes sense. Can you're an alcoholic? You need help. You
can't do it alone. You're not invincible anymore. Welcome to Charges.

(00:50):
I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Today on the show, we
have a pioneer, but not in the way you might think.
Ken Danko is a llegend in New Jersey and the
n A jail, a three time Stanley Cup champ, and
is affectionately known as Mr Devil. He's all time career
leader in games played for the New Jersey Devils. Ken

(01:10):
was a hard nosed defenseman who was always ready to
get physical. But I did say he was a pioneer,
just not on the ice. Ken was the first NHL
player to publicly take advantage of a program the league
and the Players Association bargained for where players could step
away from the game of hockey even during the season,

(01:30):
to get treatment for drugs and alcohol during the season.
Ken utilized that program for his problem with alcohol. This
his charges, Ken, thank you so much for being on
the show today. How are you, my buddy. I'm doing good, Rex,

(01:53):
and thank you for the warm, warm welcome. Yes, I
was first, uh publicly in the program, but I think
I talked to the guys now and I think I'm
number five on the all time list. The other four
went privately and that was their their choice. You could
do that as well, So I've got that going for me,

(02:15):
truly brave. I mean, you know, I played I was
playing ball in the nineties, and you know that was
something that you know not I know people in basketball
weren't doing that, So that that was a brave step,
my friend. Well, and you know what, Rex, at the time,
I had such great support from the Devil's organization and
that was important because obviously you're very scared that what's

(02:37):
it gonna do to my career? Are they going to
just throw me by the wayside after because I'm going
through some problems. And it was in season, early in
the year. I think I had played oh a handful
of games and I was playing well, and I just
for whatever reason, I wasn't right. And I knew long
ago I probably had some problems with alcohol, but it's

(03:00):
hard to admit it. It's hard to get humble and
understand that something's got me and I need help. And uh,
the game was so important to me, my team, the Devils.
I'd been there my entire career, so I had already
been there fourteen years as a player before I had
walked into Hall of Fame general manager Lou Lamarello, who

(03:20):
had been always in my corner, and he was tough
on me at times, rightfully so. But having said that,
he knew exactly what I was coming in for. And
I said, Lou, you know, if I'm going to take
this seriously and get my life together, I have to
step away from the game for a little bit. And
you know, without hesitation, Lamarillo goes ken, You've got our

(03:43):
total support. I'm not blind I've seen what's going on
in your life. You and I have been had a
lot of talks and I've been in the office a
lot with you. But to take your time as long
as you need, the team will be here for you.
And that was real comforting to me. I mean, that's
an ally right there. I mean, that's just huge and beautiful.

(04:03):
You grew up in Canada in the seventies, Ken, What
was that like and where did you grow up? I
grew up in Edmonton, Alberta, Western Canada. I was born
in Windsor, Ontario, but I always say I'm from out
west because we moved very young. My father transferred out
to Edmonton from Windsor, Ontario, where I was born. And
what was it like, rex Well, when you came out

(04:24):
of your mother's womb, if you didn't put a pair
of skates on, you had nothing else to do. That's
what it was like. And I was no different than
a lot of kids on the block. I love the
game of hockey and I would go out and ten
fifteen twenty degree below zero weather and skate on the rinks,

(04:45):
the ponds, whatever it was. It didn't matter how cold
it was. I had a passion for the game at
oh gosh, six seven years old and loved it. And
I grew up in a neighborhood with friends that all
were hockey players. If we weren't playing street hockey, we
were going to the pond, we were going to the
outdoor ice rinks and and playing some shinny and I

(05:05):
just fell in love with the game like a lot
of Canadians do over the years. Did you like the skating,
did you like the camaraderie, did you like all of it?
What was it about the hockey that you just you
had it? I think the best way I can describe it.
I mean, obviously you love all the those aspects of
skating and pock handling, And it was the competition for me.

(05:29):
I like to compete, and obviously growing up it was
about winning for me. It always was. I wanted to
be part of a team. I wanted to be part
of a foundation. It didn't matter what level, even at
a young age. And I tell people, you know, I
told my mother a handful of times a day from
seven years old on, I'm gonna play in the National

(05:50):
Hockey League. That was my dream as a little kid.
That was it. We watch hockey night in Canada together,
get around the TV after a spaghetti and meat sauce
dinner ever Saturday day night and watch Hockey Night in
Canada as a family and families throughout the country. That's
what you did. And right from there, I said, I'm

(06:10):
going to play the National Hockey League. Mom, and God
rest her soul. She passed about eight years ago. She
used to always passify me and go, yeah, yeah, Kenny.
I know, But I think she thought I was dreaming
a little bit high because there was ten Ken Donicos
on every corner where I grew up, in every corner
through Canada and obviously the United States, where the game
has grown tremendously. Back when I came in the league,

(06:32):
when I was drafting eighty two, was more Canadians and
the majority were Canadian hockey players, regardless of the teams
being in the United States at the time. But but
I just had a dream and my mother and I
wasn't so sure I was maybe reaching a little bit high.
I've I heard those same conversations. I had those same
conversations with my folks. What were your hobbies as a teenager?

(06:55):
For better or worse? Was fighting and drinking a part
of that or was that acquired baby. Yeah. When I
was a teenager, I mean obviously hockey was a team
sport in camaraderie. I left home real young rex I mean,
playing minor hockey, and I was obviously a pretty good player.
But like I said, there was so much talent. But

(07:16):
I was a good player. And when I turned fourteen,
you get put on a list to play junior hockey.
And if I was going to fulfill my dream, I
wanted to take whatever steps necessary. And by around fifteen
years old, I knew, well, maybe there's a chance here,
Maybe I have an opportunity to keep climbing the ladder.
So I have to go play and advance my career

(07:38):
at at whatever level. And junior was the next step.
And I had to leave home at fifteen years old.
And it was a tough, tough decision from the standpoint
that my father's born in Germany, raised in Germany, was
a soccer guy, not as much a hockey guy, but
he learned to love it moving to Canada. He moved
at twenty two and didn't I didn't speak a word
of English un till about twenty three or twenty before.

(08:01):
But he supported me and and met my mom in Canada, obviously,
and so my mother said, over my dead body, you're
leaving at fifteen years old. Now, I know the dynamic
was a little bit different back then today's day and age.
I would never let my kid leave at fifteen. I
have a twenty two year old so right now, the
six year old daughter. So my dad took me aside.
Old school guy didn't say a whole lot. He was

(08:23):
just a solid support system. And he says, Kenny, is
this what you want? And I said, Dad, this is
gonna help my career. They're asking me to go to
York to Saskatchewan to play Tier two junior hockey. The
Western Hockey League team the originally Great Falls Americans that
had put me on the protective list and said, we
think you're ready to jump right from Bannams to junior hockey,

(08:43):
but you're gonna have to move five dred miles away
because we're affiliated with his Tier two team in the
Saskatchewan Junior Hockey League and mid Midwest Canada. So my
dad says, look, and this is a true story. He
goes I had two days to decide, and the coach
of the York and Terrace was gonna pick me up
a gas station outside Edmonton, Alberta, and drive me back

(09:04):
to Yorkton, Saskatchewan. I said, Dad, this is what I
want to do. I said, uh, you know, it's a
big step. But he goes, we're not gonna tell your mother.
I'm gonna drive you there. I will handle her. She'll
get over it in a couple of weeks because we
don't want to have that house. And that's that's a
true story. So I went to the gas station, got
picked up by a coach named Jerry Bullets at the time,

(09:24):
and went off to Yorkton, Saskatchewan to play for the
Yorkton Terrors. I was one of two fifteen year olds
in the league Rex and I was young. I was
physically mature because I was big, I was strong. Yeah,
it was physical, and that's where probably it was good
for me. But on the flip side, from my life standpoint,

(09:45):
I was still a kid and I'm playing with seventeen eighteen,
nineteen year old guys. Drinking. Drinking became a big part
of it. It was play hard, party hard, right from
a young a age. And you know, you look back,
you reflect all the extracurricular activity and the partying, and

(10:07):
the drinking was always there. But again I had one
goal and one thing I will say, humblia. I had
the discipline in the work ethic and the heart to
always just pull my bootstraps up and and understand what
comes first until later on. And we'll get into that
after and you can ask me some questions when the
drinking really took hold of me. So you're drafted, and

(10:32):
at what point, though you're still a teenager, at what
point do you know that this sport is gonna take
you places? M hm, Well, I'll tell you a nineteen
eighty two. I'm eighteen years old, and that's when there
was no internet, obviously no cell phones, and and you
go back in your day, the same idea. Now they

(10:53):
know everything about you, when you eat, sleep, go to
the bathroom. But back then they relied on one scout
that would follow you around, or or a guy and
they would take recommendations. Now, I was not ranked to
go in the first round. There was twenty one teams.
At the time. I was cautiously optimistic I was going
to be drafted, but I still was uncertain because I

(11:14):
always had that in the back of my mind. I
don't know how good am I am? I any good?
I know? I played pretty well in junior and had
a pretty good playoffs my draft year. So the summer
of eighty two, the drafts in Montreal, two hour time difference.
So I go out the night before my brother who's
five years older, to take a little edge off, had

(11:35):
a few pops, you know, knowing the drafts. The next day,
I'm very nervous and just praying I get drafted, you know,
just pray I get drafted somewhere, anywhere, it doesn't matter
what round. So about forty minutes into the draft, I'm sleeping.
I'm out like a light. My mom walks up to
my bedroom and says, Kenny, wake up, you gotta take
this call. I go, mom, I look. I take a

(11:57):
peek at the clock with one I go, mom, it's
eight too early. I know what time it is in Montreal.
There's no way I'm drafted yet. And I was serious.
She goes, Kenny. Just my mom was a petite lady
of five ft one, very quiet, comes just come downstairs
and take this call. I go, I thought it was
a friend playing a prank. I said, it's probably friends
playing a prank, you know, Hey, Kenny, you know, congratulations

(12:20):
You've been drafted by the Montreal Canadians, and I really
believe that. I go down there, I pick up the phone.
Groggy voice go hello. Uh, he goes, Hi, can this
is Marshall Johnson. Congratulations, We've just picked you eighteenth overall.
And I still get goose bump saying it and almost
tears because I dropped the phone. I never asked who

(12:43):
it was. I dropped the phone. Swear to God, I
I'm going to my mom. I turned to my mother
and I go, you're not gonna believe this, And it
still brings me me tears like it goes, I just
got drafted eighteenth overall. My mother, who has never sworn
her life a little calt games, You've got to be
bleeping me like she was just dumbfounded beside her. So

(13:06):
she goes, we'll ask who it is. I picked the
phone up. I go, oh, yeah, who is this? He goes,
It's Marshall Johnson from New Jersey. Didn't have a team
name yet, no team name. They had just moved from
the Colorado Rockies and became New Jersey. The late grade
owner who was so in my corner to Dr John McMullin,
who haven't known the Houston Astors at the time as well,

(13:27):
bought the team from Colorado moved them to New Jersey.
So this was a big risk for him. And I
was one of his two picks in the first round
and there was no team name. They were voting in
the Star Ledger, the Newark Star Ledger papers still on
what the team name was gonna be and let the
fans vote. And we didn't have a ton of fans
at the time, really, but it ended up being the

(13:47):
New Jersey Devils. But I will tell you Rex, I
would have ran the two thousand miles from Edmonton, Alberta.
I don't care if they were sending me to Siberia.
I wanted my opportunity uh to play. This was my
dream as a young kid. This was the first step
getting drafted. I went way higher than I expected. And
it was one one scout, Bert Marshall was his name,

(14:10):
and he had followed me around and a beat up
Winnebago for about ten days. He had told me, and
I talked to him in two thousand twelve about this
because I didn't know the real story. But this is true,
he says. Kenny. I told the New Jersey Devils at eighteen,
you've got to take this kid, Ken Danico. They didn't
really know who I was much. They you know, obviously scout,

(14:30):
but there just wasn't as much information and access. And
they go Bert, he's not ranked there, we're not taking him.
Bert Marshall said, I'm putting my job line. He says, Bert,
if he doesn't pan out, you are putting your job
on the line. He says, because we really don't. They
were not going to take me, from what I understand,
and Bert confirmed this in two thousand twelve to me

(14:51):
because I gave him a big hug. Two thousand twelve,
the draft was in New Jersey. I happened to see
him because he's still scouting at the time for Caroline.
And then I go Bert, I, I I just want to
come up. I heard a story that you know, the
Devils didn't want to take me. And I gave him
a big hug, and I said, you know, it never
goes unnoticed. Thank you for believing in me, Thank you

(15:12):
for But he goes, Kenny, you don't know half the story.
He goes, I begged them. They right up till the
draft they were not going to take you, I said,
I will put my job in line, he says, And
I thank you because I'm still scouting because of that pick.
Because the eighth overall pick was Brian Tracy's brother. Wonderful guy,
but he only ended up playing games in the nash
Hock League. I was eighteenth overall and and then play

(15:35):
three regular season games hundred seventy five more in the playoffs.
But that's kind of what Burt says. He said to them,
I am telling you this kid will play ten fifteen
years for you. I followed him for two weeks. I
know his heart, I know his character, and uh, nobody
wants to win more. And that made me feel It
makes you feel good, you know. And when we laughed
about it, hug, but I just wanted to make sure
he understood. This was one guy putting all his eggs

(15:58):
in one basket at the draft, believing in in a
person and a player. And back then they had to
because they had to trust their scouts and they weren't
going to but they did. Man, it's so true. I mean,
kudos to him because you know, and you've been around
the sport a long time in round front offices and whatnot,
and a lot of times guys just want to keep
their job and to put your neck on the line

(16:21):
and say no, look, I believe in this. That's what
separates the good ones, are the bad ones from the
great ones. As we've explored in previous episodes with Chris
Knuckles Nyland on the NHL and Jim Laerts on The
Big Apple, the party when you're a drinker and in

(16:42):
the pros finds you. The ferociousness and tenacity that Kim
Daniko played with on the ice would be the same
for his alcohol consumption. Work, hard, party, heart. That would
be his calling for twenty seasons and even into retirement.
Rents and repeat. It's enough to bring even the biggest

(17:02):
bruiser to their knees. Little did young kid know what
lay ahead for him on his road to hockey immortality.
We'll be right back after this bird from our sponsors.
So you're called up? How did you celebrate when you're
called up to the called up to the NHL? You
know what, It's all a blur back then. But I'm

(17:22):
sure I went out, and I know I went with
some friends and we all got together at a house
and what do we do? We drank, We drank, we
have fun, We have a good time, and you know
that's all I knew. It was play hard, party hard,
really back then. But but I was excited and I
was over the moon, and and boy did I train
hard that summer going into my first camp. And and obviously, uh,

(17:45):
I got into exhibition games as an eighteen year. It
doesn't mean you're gonna make the team right away, because
they can still send you back to junior. I went
back to junior my first year. So I have to
tell you this quick story, and this is a good one. Rex.
So my second exhibition game is against the Gray New
York Islanders. They were a dynasty at the time. They
just finished winning four straight Stanley Cups. I had such

(18:05):
admiration for their team, and I was a student of
the fighters and of players and even as a young kid.
And they had the likes of some of the toughest
customers in the league. Bobby Nice from Clark Gillies, guys
that I'm friends with. Today we're playing golf charities together.
I love those guys, just the wonderful people. So I'm
gonna get noticed. It's game two of my exhibition career

(18:28):
for the Devil's in eighteen year old So John Tonelli,
a great hero over the playoffs for the Islanders, goes
in the corner and I come across full bore and
absolutely jump into him, knock him feet go up in
the air. He goes flying, head hits the ice, and
all of a sudden there's a big scrum and I
get grabbed around the neck and I turn around and

(18:51):
elbow this guy right in the head, you know, just
because it's a big melee and and it's a big scrum.
I turn around. It's Bobby nice from and I'm on,
oh my good god, I think I've been off a
lot more than I could chew for my first National
Hockey League fight. So I'm going I'm in deep trouble here,
because Bobby Nystrom was known to be one of the

(19:11):
best fighters in Nish hockey and he was a wild man,
and I'm going I'm dead here, and I'm going to
do whatever I can to stay on. So Bobby turns
and looks at me. We have gloves off. He holds
me and goes, kid, I respect what you're doing out here,
because I was that young guy once too. He says,
we're not going to fight on this opportunity, he says,

(19:31):
but just take it easy out there. I looked him
in the I said, thank you, Mr Nystrom. And to
this day, we playing charity outings, I see him in
the offseason. And about three years ago we told the
story when we were at Clark Gillis has a big
golf charity and Long Island. We told the story and

(19:52):
Bobby was just on the on the ground rolling and
he says, yeah, I vaguely remember that, Kenny. And I said, Bobby,
you don't know how appreciative I was at the time.
I was eighteen years old. I was not ready to
fight you just yet. And he was so respectful, kind
of that guy that he says, just go easy, kid.
I know, I understand you're trying to make a name

(20:12):
for yourself. That is just beautiful. That is just beautiful,
good greeting like old Stanley St. Josey. Teams are called

(20:32):
and he has all the right stuff. They all have
the right stuff. Because now that Aspies I love. The

(20:53):
Rangers famously win the Stanley Cup in four and the
New York City loved it course, But then the very
next season your Devil's winning in of all the trophies
and sports, the Stanley Cup. Tell me about the moment
you win it and the first moment you got to
hoist that trophy. Well, I'll tell you Rex four was

(21:15):
the step for our team, and a devastating step because
we lost the Eastern Conference Finals to the New York
Rangers and double overtime in Game seven and had a
lead in Game six to close up the series to nothing.
So all these things come into play as far as
when you you hear you gotta lose before you win,
you gotta understand what it takes. And they had a

(21:36):
great leader who I grew up with, Mark Messier, one
of the best leaders in sports. So I grew up
with an Edmonton Alberta by the way, a little older
than me. He was a mentor of mine. But all
the friendships stopped when he got traded the Rangers because
it was such a big rivalry, and you know, he
guaranteed a winning Game six. We had them down to
nothing and we just didn't know how to close the deal.

(21:57):
Mark took over, but obviously we tightened up and that
was our lesson to be learned and we were more
prepared for We're able to turn the switch on the
plasts we were the two best teams in ninety four
in the regular season, and if we beat the Rangers,
we felt no disrespect to Vancouver Canucks. We were gonna
win the Cup as well. So as devastating as that was,

(22:17):
the pain was eased by winning the Cup in and
that was my second dream playing road hockey. As a
ten year old, I'd carry a silver garbage can over
my head pretending it was the Stanley Cup. But right, so,
you've worked your way up. Your mainstay in Jersey at
this point the New York metropolitan area, and they love hockey.

(22:39):
What was it like on and off the ice around
this time New York I'll put it this way in summarize,
New York City chewed me up and spit me out
many a night. I was a kid from a small
Western Canada town for the most part going to New
York City and a kid that liked to have fun.
And I'm going out to the China Club, different clubs,

(23:00):
and they treated me like royalty because they loved athletes
and love love me and I'm seeing celebrities and actors
and actresses and I'm having the time of my life.
Reckx So it chewed me up and spit me out.
And obviously, twelve years later, we win the Stanley Cup. Uh,
and the party began. I mean, uh, this is something

(23:21):
that's really was kind of planted the seeds where I
knew I had a problem. And boy, it's it's so
long ago, but it brings back good and bad memories.
From the standpoint, I had just won the Stanley Cup,
the ultimate goal. After going on some vendors party in
New York, New Jersey, the Jersey Shore or everywhere you

(23:42):
name it. I brought the cup everywhere. I partied everywhere
with the fans. I was one of those blue collar guys,
like the state of New Jersey are great fans. They
they loved me. I love them. We're nothing, well the fans.
I still believe that today and have time for them.
Anytime they asked me for the fiftie picture. It goes
without fans were nothing, and I'll always believe that. So

(24:04):
I had partied my you know what, off, my butt off,
and two months in I'm empty, completely empty, and I'm
I'm going what is wrong with me? I really had
to sit down and and do uh, you know, some
soul searching, and I knew it was wrong. With me.
I didn't want a minute. I had a drinking problem.
I drank too much. I party too much, and it

(24:25):
hurt and I and I had guilt and shame and
and I had a ton of fun and did things
that we need a five hour podcast. What was your
What was your age here? What how old were you?
I was so ninety five? Jeez, I have to do
the math. But I was about thirty two years old,
and we want our cup. And you know, that's when

(24:47):
I really started to recognize I gotta take care of
myself so privately. And nine before I went public and
ninety seven to my second rehab, I went to a
rehab in Canada on my own. I didn't even tell
the team anybody, because that's when I was real scared
that if I tell them I I need help. If

(25:08):
I tell them I've got a drinking problem, you know,
couldn't end my career. Are they going to, you know,
stick by me? And so I talked to family and
supportive of my family around around here, and and went
to rehab it and I gave an earnest effort. I
was there for thirty days. I I was like that

(25:28):
models school student. I really took it serious the time,
and went into the season strong and felt good, stayed
sober for about five months at the time. But it
planted the seeds. And if they anybody thinks, uh, you're
gonna be a first time winner, it just doesn't happen
that often. I'm sure you know a little bit about that, Rich,
But I was there for the right reasons and obviously

(25:50):
still had to do some more experiment and didn't believe,
you know, to believe that you are an alcoholic, because
somebody once told me, once you're a pickle can, you
can't become a cucumber. Will I kept trying to become
a cucumber. I wanted to be that fun guy that
it was a heavy drinker, but just didn't cross the line.
But I was playing Russian roulettein the season came and

(26:10):
I was still discipline enough to keep in line and
my career going hard, and I had a god given
ability and body that could be put through a lot.
At the time, something that Ken just said resonated with me.
I was playing Russian Roulette. That is how he categorizes

(26:32):
his addiction. For those unfamiliar with this spectacle, that's the
game of suicidal tendency where the rules include putting one
bullet into the chamber that holds six, spinning it, placing
it to your temple, pulling the trigger, and hoping your
number is not called unless that is what you want.

(26:53):
Not all addicts are fortunate like Ken to be able
to recognize a problem but still keep the party going.
That's what many professional athletes from his air of dealt with,
especially in the NHL. What's the drinking culture like in
the NHL? And did you have a drink of choice?
Do you have your what was your beverage? And whatever

(27:15):
was put in front of me. But I hockey guys
back then, and and and it's changed dramatically since my day.
Kids take care of themselves so much better because they
are they are corporations now, the money they're making and
the teams are on top of them. These kids are
so well prepared. You know, back then, it was more acceptable. Obviously,
play hard, party hard, the mentality, but beer shots, you

(27:38):
name it. I was a big beer drinker obviously, but
anything to get me feeling uh, you know, get me
out of my comfort zone. You know, a lot of
it was I was this life of the party type guy.
But but I I found out later after rehabs and
and you know, some therapy along the way that you know,
I had insecurities. You know, I was as I'm a

(28:00):
pro athlete, I have the world by the tail and
making good money, and I had insecurities. I was a
guy that you know, as much as I believe in
myself and as much as I thought for the most part,
I was a good guy and people liked me. You know,
it was did I like myself enough? You know, nothing
was enough rex I win the Stanley Cup Championship, and
then I was empty two months later. So I was

(28:22):
always searching for more. I couldn't couldn't get that high
high enough. It was, if that makes sense to you,
I just needed more all the time, and I found
it through alcohol. And I couldn't quite understand what what
I was doing to myself and affecting my body and
people around me, as in particular family, because you heard

(28:43):
a lot of people around you. I know when I
struggled when I finally went to rehab to try to
get serious about it, you know, it was just I realized, man,
you don't even know who you are, you don't know
what you like. You've the only thing you've ever done
is play basket ball. You know you don't that is

(29:03):
your identity, and it was I'm gonna ask this. This
is kind of a long two parter, but when was
the first time you can remember thinking, you know, while
I'm not in control or might not fully be in
control of myself while drinking. I asked that because you know,
I've got that sort of personality addictive. I know what
it's like when I first got opioids and how that felt.

(29:25):
I knew, wow, okay, this is different. I like this,
but I really, I really like it. So I'm always
curious with someone who's main issue, you know that I
know of was drinking since that wasn't my thing. Uh,
and it's available everywhere every store, on ice all of that.
What was that process like for you realizing or not realizing, hey,

(29:47):
maybe I'm not in control of this. Well, first off, Rex,
I will say, I mean, yeah, you talk about addiction.
I anything put in front of me. Obviously, I always
had to be aware of it. And if you can
believe this or not, I know former players and guys
that I speak to, and uh, if I can help
anyway and give back, and that's what you try to

(30:08):
do along the way former players or teammates. I have
had teammates called me up out of the blue and said, Kenny,
how the hell did you do it? Guys that watched
me be the wildest man on the team and be
the craziest guy, and I could drink more than most
people in the bar on a nightly basis. I have

(30:28):
had problems with old piods. I never took one pill
in my life, so which it scared me. It was
the subconscious thing, even when I was getting hurt and
there was very accessible pills, and I kind of shunned
away from it. Always said, now I'll just take advil.
Whether it was my teeth knock though, whether it was institute,
whether it was a shoulder separation or that knee when

(30:50):
I hurt my knee and ninety four and tore my
knee him, I stayed away from it. I numbed it
with drinking, obviously, But there was something that scared me
because I know I would have grabbed it, would have
grabbed hold of me, and I know that how difficult
that is. I've never like I've been through the opiates.
But it's all relative, it's all the same addictions, addictions, addiction.
That's exactly how I felt about cocaine. You know the

(31:13):
other stuff. All right, let me try it whatever, But
I've I really felt I don't know why. I think
because of the way it was described to me. Always
that and I knew guys who played on it who
never got tired, and it had to be difficult. But
I had some late nights. I always had a rule,
try not to drink night before a game, and I

(31:35):
stuck to it, probably about not I'm trying, but I'm
telling your X. Probably the time that was kind of
that was my discipline because night before a game, I
can't do it. But now if I went out two
nights before, as I got older, it's it still would
affect me two nights later. So going back to your
in a roundabout way, your question is when when did

(31:57):
I notice, look, the seeds have been planted. If I
reflected after everything was all send done, I knew I
was overboard. Back in back in when I was twenty
years old. It was a problem because I couldn't control
my drinking. It was Russian or lette. I had the discipline,
like I had mentioned um, but had to be kind
of terrifying though at early twenties, you know, you look

(32:22):
around and you go, I'm not gonna you're telling me
I'm not gonna party and drink with my friends ever again.
I mean, that's uh, that's almost you can't even fathom that.
And that's why I never went for help back the
inner thought because I juggled it, obviously, but when it
really took call was the real year where I knew

(32:42):
something was wrong and still didn't quite get it. In
to nineties seven, I go away during the season, so
obviously everybody knew. When I was the first guy to
go public. Let's talk about that for a second, real quick.
Let's talk about that moment in nine seven when you
go to the general manager's office, the devil general manager.
What do you remember about that day? Did you have
a plan? How did the conversation go? I was scared

(33:04):
to death, rex Um go on, what's he gonna think
of me? Look? When I went in there, Louis like,
and look, we'd had talks. He told me I had
to curb my lifestyle for many years prior. So it's
not like he was aware. He he was so aware.
But he said to me, he says, Kenny. A few
times he goes, Damn, he says, I should trade you.

(33:25):
You know, sometimes I hear what you're doing. I hear
how late you're out. He goes, but damn, do you
come to play at seven thirty? He says, I don't
know how you do it at times, but he would
always say, imagine if you get it, put your your
life together. So he knew all along. So when I
went in there, I'd been there. He's a loyal man.
I'd been there a long time. And I throw in

(33:46):
Mr Dr mamal And who was my biggest supporter. I
was his first pick. I wore the crest with pride.
I you know, do anything to be a devil and
against support our team whatever way I could. So he
was always going to be in my corner. To a fault.
He almost enabled me at times, but I love the man,
God rest his soul, and and both those guys were

(34:06):
just right behind me, and Lou knew. So when I
went in there, initially I was scared. But I'll tell
you the day after X you get second thoughts. I
was getting cold feet and gonna run out, run away,
but lu said, no, you committed. You have to now
he had already called the the NHLP a behavioral and
subset abuse, and so you know that the guys that
were gonna help me, so I was already committed. Now

(34:29):
I had to go and get on that plane. And
I went to California to rehab. And I went away
for about two and a half months. This wasn't a month,
and they were gonna tell me when I was ready
to come back. So I missed half a season that
year and came back and was so anxious to play.
And I played and stayed sober about sixteen months at
that time, rex for a year, and and I went

(34:50):
back again a little bit gingerly, you know, because I
did have that discipline, but because at times I felt stronger,
felt better, but I didn't feel when I went into
a rut, I used it as a crutch. I wasn't
playing very well. I go, screw it. I've got to
be me. This isn't me. I'm not having fun in sobriety.
I'm not having fun out of it. You know that
one ft in, one foot out again. I was just

(35:12):
holding on again. And like I said, there hasn't been
many first time winners. But again, all the seeds planted.
And then when it really took hold, you know, I
played in we won the Cup in two thousand. We
went in two thousand three and that was my gonna
be my last year, and I went out on top
in a game seven. And during that time I had

(35:32):
a good sobriety off and on, but I was still relapsing,
going out being me, being can being the fun, crazy
guy because I was. I was a party er. I
had to be in the action. I wasn't a guy
that just sat at home and drank and drank like.
I wasn't this depressed guy I And it's all relative,
I say, because everybody goes through the same the bottom line,
it's addiction. But I had to be in the action.

(35:54):
I was all alone in a crowded room, if that
makes sense. That's somebody lou Lamail used to tell him.
He says, you're out there, you're the life of the party,
but you're all alone in the crowd of room because
you're dealing with your demons, yourself and your insecurities. And
that's what was transpiring. And then two thousand three comes Rex.

(36:14):
I go out on top game seven, my roles diminishing,
what a way to go out. I was just so
humbled and so grateful. I was in and out of
the lineup during the playoffs and knew it was over.
I said to go out on top every athlete's dream.
I go out on top two thousands of three. But ah,
now I don't have to be in shape. Now I
don't have as much responsibility, and let the party begin again.

(36:35):
And it began and began and went, and then I'd
stop again, feeling real bad, feeling guilty because I'd I'd
had the discipline to go two months, and then I'd
go back, and then now I'm going back and forth
and going what am I doing. I'm still with the
Devil's Organization. I'm doing some broadcasting, I'm doing stuff in
the community. They've been so supportive and in two thousand

(36:57):
nine Rex and I'll fast track because I know this
could go on for everybody with with battling this sobriety
and and just the recognition that Ken, you're an alcoholic,
you need help, you can't do it alone, You're not
invincible anymore. Those were the hardest things to deal with.

(37:18):
And anybody that's uh an alcoholic addict can relate because
I just I was this big, strong, tough hockey guy.
No way this thing has me. So I kept trying,
I'm going all right, and then I'd have a success
what I considered a successful night of drinking where I
got home at one of the morning and I wasn't
that bombed. That was successful, but I was playing Russian

(37:40):
let because the next time would be ten am, I'd
be out. I could drink that long. I'd be out
that long, and and just crazy nights, and you know,
people not knowing where I am, and then curling up
in bed to press go on, what am I doing
with my life? And and the Devil's once you know,
I got in trouble a couple of times. I'm going
They always stood by me, but you know, grow up here,

(38:02):
I have to mature. They're not gonna stand by me forever,
you know. And I had that aha moment, the spiritual awakening,
and yeah, I got my knees and prayed to the
Big Fellow. I said, it's got a hold of me again.
Please God take this obsession away. I'm not having fun
with it, I'm not having fun without it. But I
need to be comfortable in my own skin. Got on

(38:25):
my knees and I will tell you my It was
my girlfriend now my wife, Margaret, uh, my second wife, Margaret,
you know. Looked at her two days later and I
was depressed for a couple of days and and I
said to her, it's over. And she says to me,
I've heard this before, Kenny, and I'm telling you it's
it's gonna be tough for me to stick around. I

(38:46):
get emotional with it because she goes. She says, Kenny,
you are a wonderful guy, and you are a guy
that you wear your heart on your sleeve and you
help people, and you're great to the fans, but you're
not helping yourself. You are a mess. And I'm going, yeah, yeah,
don't worry. I said, I'm playing Russian. This is just me.
But at that moment, two days after my last bender,

(39:07):
I said to her I'm done. And she didn't believe me.
I said, I won't say it again. And time kept going,
and I had the obsession had left. I had asked
God and he answered my prayer and I said, a
year comes. She goes, you weren't you weren't kidding about this,
You're seriously said nope. I said, I'm done on something
happened to me. Something happened to me. Yes, I'd been

(39:27):
to a lot of meetings. Yes, I had some great
guys and other athletes that have had some sobriety called
me and talked to me, helped me, and I did
some took some steps. But all the season Planet I'd
gone to three rehabs, I had some sobriety. She'd asked
me after I'd said I'm done, she goes, do you
want to go to rehab again? I said, I'm not
going to rehab again. I said, if I don't get

(39:47):
this now and I don't take control of my life
with help from everybody that's been through it before me,
then you know, I don't know what I'm gonna do.
And and I knew that moment, I'm not invincible anymore.
You know, they a jail's institution and death, and now
I believed it, and I didn't want to lose everything.
I had young kids. I wanted to straighten my life out,

(40:08):
and I'm going to imagine the person I can be
sober and I'm still I'm not I'm still fun, I
still have a great time. But the obsession left me
August nine, this year's going to be ten years rex
and I probably as proud as that is my three
Stanley Cup championships, one day at a time. But but
again I say, have a little faith to anybody's struggling,

(40:31):
believing yourself, because if I can do it, anybody can.
But you can't do it alone. And there's no anybody
that asked me what you do. I said, there's no
magic potion, there's no magic wand being waived, I had
to get humble. I had to have humility. I had
to say I need help. This thing has beaten me.
I can't beat it. Beautiful. Did you love yourself? Have

(40:53):
you learned to love yourself? Did I love myself? No?
Absolutely not. There was I was running, I was hiding.
I is not comfortable in my skin, as I said,
So I believed in myself, which I think is an
attribute I love all young athletes have. But you've got
to love yourself and today, yeah, I absolutely do. But

(41:13):
uh I love myself because I can help other people.
I love myself because I'm there for my family. Uh yeah.
We all want accolades and we all want Patson back.
I'd had enough of those, you know, and we all
want success that's natural and rightfully. So you work hard,
you have some success in all walks of life. But
now you know, I've always been a guy that likes

(41:36):
to get back and do charitable things, But now it
has more meaning. I didn't understand why I was doing
I was doing it because I was a pretty good guy.
Now it I feel the impact because I love myself
first now and I'm sober and and I'm responsible. And
if somebody asked me, are you gonna be there at
ten o'clock tomorrow, I'll be there. It's not guessing. You
know what I mean. When I make a commitment, I commit,

(41:58):
you know. So those things are what's important to me
now in my life. To have a reckoning and a
rebound from self inflicted addiction and alcoholism is now a
badge that Ken wears proudly on his sweater sleeve. One
sour moment that we touched upon but did not cross
in depth, was how on July two thousand six, Mr

(42:21):
Devil was arrested on a d u I charge in Sparta,
New Jersey at age forty two, three years after his
playing career ended. This left a mark on his criminal
record and added another smudge on himself in the court
of public opinion. Not long after was when his depression deepened.
Ken chose to overcome, which is not the story for

(42:43):
many with his afflictions. Unfortunately, today he's amongst the most
celebrated and respected voices in the NHL who still broadcasts
or the Devils and gets to see his number three
hanging in the rafters. We'll right bat after this word
from our sponsors. Ken, You're known as Mr Devil? What

(43:06):
does that mean to you? Yeah, I'm so humbled by it.
It's amazing. And I go back to when I told
you I was that blue collar guy I think the
fans could relate to. I was that in the trenches guy.
I wasn't the star guy. I played with greats who
I loved to this day because team was everything to me.
Marty Broder Hall of Fame, Greatest goaltender all time, Scott Stevens,

(43:28):
a fur Ocean defenseman, Hall of Fame, Scott Niedermeyer one
of the best, the best player I've ever played with,
and the game was effortless. I could go on on
Patrick Keller's These guys were the stars of our organization,
UH and the main cogs and winning Stanley Cup Championships
what it was all about. But for me, I was that,
you know, in the trenches, blue collar type of guy.

(43:52):
Like I said, the fans could relate to me and
they respected. I guess over the years the fact that
I wanted to play for one team team. I wanted
to be a New Jersey Devil, the Devil's Organization where
my family. I've been here thirty eight years in the organization,
whether as a player with all the problems we have discussed,
whether as a player or in the community relations or

(44:12):
the broadcast. I broadcast all the games now on MSG,
which I love because I'm involved in the game and
I root for the success. But when the fans aptly
or whatever name me Mr Devil, I was, I was
kind of taking it back because I'm going really like
and now I embrace it, you know, I embrace it
because it means something to me. It touches my heart

(44:34):
and when I see it on social media or when
I see fans at the game a Mr. Devil and
you wave and you know it kind of it brings
me goose bumps and oh really, I'm Mr Devil. That's
pretty pretty wild, and I'm proud of it now, you know,
the old days out because though the guilt and shame,
if I was drinking everything, i'd be you know, I
don't deserve that. I don't want that. My number was

(44:57):
retired in two thousand six, and there's five guys numbers retired.
I was second behind our great captain Scott Stevens. And
I'll joke to people and say, which one of these
doesn't belong that Sesame Street kind of song. And I
do believe that because from a talent standpoint, But what
it shows, I go, I just you know, I scratched,

(45:18):
I claude, I did whatever took to help our team,
and might do my little part. But it shows if
you work hard and believing yourself and have heart, that
you can get those same accolades as star guys like
the Stevens, and rightfully so in the Nida Mers and
brothers like I said, and guys that I still love
today and are great friends. We have a bond because

(45:39):
we won three cups together, and Sergey Brelan and we
walked together forever, whether we see each other for a
year or not. And the Devil's like I said, and
no did I think I'd be named Mr devil. Absolutely not, Rex,
but I'm very proud of it. You should be. What's
next for you? Can? Uh? And what are you hoping
for in continuing to share your story on this type
of platform? Well, what's next? I mean, we're hoping to

(46:02):
go back to normal from a sports standpoint. It looks
like our season will start in time. I hope my
Devils get better. But what's next? Really, Rex? And the
important things in life is just staying sober one day
at a time, which I'm in a wonderful place, helping
others when I can, and obviously, Uh, there's one story
I wanted to tell you for young athletes about lou

(46:23):
lam Morello when I said understanding your roles, so so
he takes me in okay, N nine, He's only a
year in his ten year as general manager. He was
an unknown coming from Providence College as the a D
and um. He just commanded that respect. Certain people have that.
So he had that aura about him, and he was

(46:43):
an intimidating man. And I'm a defensive guy. I'm a
physical guy. I have to fight sometimes after protect teammates.
So I get four games on the power play because
one of our power play guys Bruce Drivers injured. I
have four points in those four games on the second
power play unit, so I want to do it all.
All us young athletes think we can do it all.

(47:05):
Now I can get oh great, I'm gonna get a
little more notoriety. I can pick up some points along
the way, because what everybody loves scoring? Right, So I'm disgruntled.
After Bruce comes back, I'm not getting any power play time.
And I wear my emotion on my sleeve. Lou Armor
l after practice, goes Kenny, coming to my office after practice.
We need to talk. He goes, sits me down. What's

(47:28):
troubling you? He knew exactly what was bothering me, exactly
what was bothered. And I said, well, Lou, and I'm
really fired up, and I'm going I have four points
in four games on the power play and all of
a sudden, I'm taking off the power play. What's up?
I mean? You know? I produced? He goes Kenny. He says,
Bruce Drivers back, he's the power play guy. It's pretty simple,
he says. I liken my team to an orchestra, and

(47:51):
in order to make beautiful music, everybody has to play
their instrument. There's drummers, there's penis, there's violinists. What category
do you think you fall in? There? Out a word
of a lie exactly how he put it, and I go,
I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer,
but I knew where he was going. I'm a drummer,
he goes. And Kenny, by the way, he says, if
you master that drum, your physical you're a penalty killer.

(48:14):
You get plenty of ice. I want you to keep
the puck out of it that. I want you to
protect teammates. I want you to protect your goaltender and
block shots and do your thing, he says, because that
is what's gonna help us have team success. You understanding
your role. You try to do too much and things
that you're not capable, then it takes away from what
you're really good at. And if you master that drum,

(48:36):
you're gonna play in this league for fifteen years. If
you want to be a violinist, I will call fifteen
teams and see if they need a violinist. Exactly Ezac words,
I get, I get out of the chair and throw
the chair. Not many guys would would challenge lou Emerald
because he just was an intimidating guy. I had that fire,

(48:57):
and lou actually respected that, even though he would back
you down and you always thought he was going to
discipline you order. I threw the chair, was ready to
slam the door, and and he that's when he said,
excuse me. He goes, oh, by very calmly, arms crossed.
By the way, Kenny, if you master that drum, you're
gonna play fifteen years in this league. So I slammed

(49:17):
the door. I'm angry, I'm I'm pissed. I can't believe
this because I want to do more. I want to
be jack of all trades. I want to do it all.
But I listened to him that day because I saw
so many players better than me, guys from junior that
I go had a cup of coffee nationally. Two years later,
I go, what happened to him? He was so good.
They didn't find their role. I found a role on

(49:40):
the team, and I stuck to it. He didn't care
if I scored. I was like an defensive lineman. My
job wasn't score touchdowns. Yeah it's nice once in a
while when you're chipping. But I had a specific role,
and that's why our team had success, and then when
I retired in two thousand three, we had a press conference,
sat beside lout Armrow. I turned to him and I said,

(50:01):
just to piss you off, lou I played twenty years,
and he started a laughing. He knew exactly what I
was talking about. I will see lu Lamorello. He'd go
to me, says Kenny. I still tell young guys the
Ken Danico story, says, I hope you don't mind me
using it. He says, I still, I said, I love it, Louke,
because he says, you were kind of the first guy
I really had to have a serious heart to heart with,

(50:24):
and and a lot of guys it sounds simplistic, right.
The GM tells you what you need to do, the
coach tells you what need to do. But we don't
always want to do that. And I was angry. I
was an emotional guy. I was an intense guy. But
I took the tart and said, lu just wants me
to do my part and be part of something and
I will help the team win. And that was a

(50:45):
big reason why I went on to have a long career.
I probably would have been out of the league in
five years with my abilities. That's coaching. That's teaching, and leadershiphip.
That's leadership. You know, he could have said it to
you any old way. He could have said it in
front of the team, which you definitely wouldn't have been
I would have been embarrassed everything I brought you in there.

(51:05):
He told you a whole story, and it's so so
much so stuck with you your whole life. You were
humbled by it. You took that information and even as
emotional and immature and and everything as you were, it
made sense to you. And that's that's leadership. Ken. It's
been my pleasure, buddy. Please know you're my brother in recovery,

(51:26):
and if you ever need anything, I'm always here for
you and my door is always open. Thanks so much
for doing this, buddy, real honor to be on with you.
And we'll have to do it again some time because
I got more. I can't wait. I'm in. But I'm
grateful man, grateful where I am out in life, and
gratefully add me on. Thanks buddy. Seving no runs with

(51:47):
the law charges Lee send tens charges, the celebrity charges
we came along with from living Law. That's charges. Seving
No runs with the law Charges sending Tina's and paul
is a charge is celebrity gank ms. Charge We came
along with from Living Lawless Charge Charges is created by

(52:08):
Portlay and Control Media is produced by DV Podcasts in
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