Vol. 5: “The Jail Blazers” with Bonzi Wells

For the fifth episode of Charges, Rex brings Bonzi Wells onto the show to talk about his career and look back on one of the most mistreated and misunderstood teams from the NBA, the so-called “Jail Blazers.” Rex and Bonzi discuss : Draft Night & being picked by The Pistons before the Lockout (2:49), getting traded to Portland & arriving with nerves (5:54), coming to the city for the first time & what he loved about his team (10:18), hearing the term "Jailblazers" for the first time & headlines going worldwide that affected his family (13:36), their relationship with Police in Portland & marijuana (22:35), racism being portrayed through the media (27:53), decriminalization in Oregon today & marijuana use throughout his time in the league (31:18), the winning ways of his Trailblazers teams & trades (36:20), Game 7 of the Western Conference Finals in 2000 versus Shaq, Kobe & The Los Angeles Lakers and the aftermath (42:30), civil unrest in the country & how the NBA stepped up during Summer of 2020 (47:16), what he'd like people to know & what's next & more (48:54). 

Listen to Bonzi Wells podcast with Rasheed Wallace, “Let’s Get Technical,” available on all podcasting platforms and follow @bonziwells42.

Charges is Created by CTRL Media & Portal A. It's produced by DBPodcasts in association with iHeartMedia. 

Executive Producers: Steve Nash, Brandon Kraines, Ezra Holland, Nate Houghteling, and Todd Barrish.

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Produced by: Gene Crenshaw (@yuyuthemaker) and Draft (@Draft3009)

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Charges. It's created by PORTALAI and Control Media. It's produced
by dB Podcasts in association with iHeart Radio. This time
a former Son's player who you might remember as t Rex.
More video in just a moment, But this is Rex
Chapman's mug Shawn, and we are learning a lot more
about the charge of the Chargeman. Do you remember the

(00:23):
first time you've heard the term jail blazers? How'd that
make you feel? Why are y'all filifying us? And y'all
love love love Bill Walton, who's a fucking hippie like
we've got understand the polices will pull up over as
soon as you left the arena, not only now is
weird legal in Oregon? How does it make you feel?
Given all the aggravations y'all were presented with while living there,

(00:46):
I feel like there awe some reparations. Welcome to Charges.
I'm your host, Rex Chapman. Join me. In the late nineties,
the league was in transition. Michael Jordan had just hit
his famous game winner in Utah and walked away and
guess what the league in some ways didn't know what

(01:08):
the hell to do next. I was older, heading towards
the end of my career, but there was all this energy, moxie, attitude,
and in some ways entitlement coming from a new influx
of talent into the league. Our guest today as Gowan
D'Angelo Wells, or as the world knows him. Bonzi drafted

(01:28):
by Detroit as the eleventh pick in the nineteen ninety
eight draft. He was traded to Portland, and well, if
you know anything about the Portland Trailblazers in the late
nineties and early two thousands, I don't have to tell
you that's where it gets interesting. Bonsai spent five seasons
in Portland, and his team made the playoffs in his

(01:48):
first four. That would be celebrated in today's NBA press
and not attacked at every turn. Bonzi was a huge
part of his team's success, but he was at the
center of controversy for a team that, by his and
my measure, was very, very misunderstood. Welcome to charges. I'm

(02:11):
your host, Rex Chapman. Unfortunately, at times perception is reality,
and especially in the media, you can be charged in
the court of public opinions. The team I'm referring to
is none other than the Jailblazers of Portland. I'm happy
to have on a man and a player of a
very specific time in NBA history, the one time captain

(02:35):
of the infamously known Jailblazers, the pride of Ball State
where my son also went to school, and Bonds he
took care of him for a year. Bondzi is here.
Thank you for being here. Thanks brob Yeah, bless us
to you. FAM Draft night nineteen ninety eight, the eleventh pick.
What do you remember about that night? Did you have
any idea about the Portland thing coming up? You know, honestly, Bro,

(02:58):
I didn't know anything that was so green into the game. Man.
You know, I'm like I tell people, I didn't meet
a pro until I went pro. So you know, I'm
from months, Indiana, small town. I went to Ball States,
so I never left my city really until it was
time to go to go pro. So you know, during
that draft process, you know, me and my family, we
got an opportunity to attend a draft. So it was
in Vancouver, Canada, and we were just kind of just

(03:19):
sitting there and I remember, you know, the draft was
going on and you can kind of know when it
was your turn to get drafted because the camera man
to kind of be kind of like kind of like
looking up in the air whistling, and then he let
they know, you know, he right there, and you're like,
so I watched the play out ten other times before
my time, and I was just like, oh, and I
just remember he was kind of easying to etch of
my way. And then I looked at my age and
his phone and rung and I was like, oh, I

(03:42):
did have a good grind in Detroit, like I did work,
you know, I did work. I didn't. I didn't I
did worker boys ask in Detroit. So I was like, OK.
I was like, well, y'all said, well, maybe Detroit. So
then he kind of I saw him do the car
he just gave me and he just smiled, and then
next thing, you know, the cameras was on me, and
it was just amazing feeling because you know, being from Indiana,
I was just like, man, this is gonna be awesome.
You know, my family will be able to you know,

(04:02):
be able to come see me play a lot of games.
I'll be you know, not so far away from home,
since I've never been away from home, you know, my
support system and being awesome. So I thought it would
be a great situation on top of playing with the
great Joe Dumars, great Grand Hill, you know, and and
the Detroit franchise at the time was just a you know,
awesome franchise that you wanted to be a part of,
especially with the history of the Bad Boys and everything
they had going on. And did you know Portland was

(04:25):
interested in you? I didn't. I didn't. It was funny,
you know. Uh, by time after I got traded. You know,
the general manager name was Mark Working Team, and I
remember seeing so, you know it Mark were together in Denver, so,
you know Work. So I had always seen Work at
all my games, but I didn't know who he was because,
you know, Work just look like a common man, you know,
he does a regular you know, just a common man.
You know, He's an Indiana guy. So he was like

(04:48):
so when he traded for me, he was like, Bonds,
I've been on you first a long time. I had
to get you. So I didn't really know anything about it.
So I came into the league. It was the lockout years.
So once I got drafted in June July, first hit,
we couldn't have contact with our teams till the lockout
was over. So I remember the lockout was about over
in January. I was headed back to Detroit and they
called me. It was like, hey, just stay home. We're

(05:08):
ninety nine percent sure we're trading you. We just don't
know where. So I was like okay, Yeah, I was
like okay. So I just sat back and twittered my thumbs,
me and my age in the family for two days
and they called me. It's like, hey, you're going to Portland,
and I was like, wow, I'm going way over there,
like you know, just like wow, I've never been anywhere before.
So it was scary. It was nerve wrecking, but I
was still excited because I was an NBA player regardless,

(05:30):
but just doing something totally different for me, it was
it was a very scary situation for the moment, right,
So when I got there, I do remember my first
day there, and you know how trades go, you can't
really do nothing until both sides, you know, both sides
have checked in. So I had like two days. I
got traded for like Lloyd Vault and Christian Latern or
somebody else, so it was like a three team trade

(05:50):
or whatever. So they had to wait a few days.
So I remember just sitting in practice, Bro and I
remember just sitting down and I was I was like, man,
so I'm gonna go down to roster for you. From
each spot, I remember at the guard spot they had
Damon Stardom, Greg Anthony, and Gary Grant. At the points,
at the two guards that had Jimmy Jackson Jr. Rider
and myself. At the three they had Stacy Ugman, Walt Williams,

(06:13):
and like Carlos Rogers. And then at the four they
had sheet they had Brian Grant, and then at the
center they had some bonus and Jermaine O'Neill, and then
you know it was training camp, so they had about
six or seven other guys that was tenured NBA guys.
So I remember just sitting on the bit for two
days and you know I had to come early work
out with the legendary coach Gergerich. You know, Greg was

(06:33):
putting me through it. He put me through it, and
I just remember sitting there and I was just sending
myself like I don't even know if I can compete
with these guys that I'm watching some real pros. And
mind you, this my first time ever meeting pros, let
alone seeing them and by the play with them. So
it was just a whole lot of anxiety. And I
was just remember going home, just looking at it. I
was at the hotel that looking in the ceiling, like,
oh my god, what if I gotten myself into? And

(06:54):
it was scary at first, but you know, once I
got my feet wet, got them first, you know, runs
and the first couple of bumps, and you know, felt
the speed and the power, and I was like, okay,
you know, maybe after about a week or so, I
got adjusted and just kind of try to find my way. Man,
I get goosebumps talking about it. Would you say in
that that you were nervous like that, wondering if you
could because those are pros. Man, that team was nothing

(07:16):
but dogs and guys that liked to practice every day,
like to play. But you've got one of the greatest
I said it the other day talking to my guys.
Before this, you had one of the greatest poker faces
ever because nobody would have ever known you had nerves Bondsi. Yeah,
you really had a look that you know, we can
play basketball or we can just fight right here right now.

(07:38):
I would just assume fight. That's what you gave off.
And good for you. Good for you because then some
guys do that and then they can't play. Yeah, but
the thing was you had a game that matched that
exactly because you did defend. You know, you're going in there,
and I played against those teams before you got there.
They were good. You're getting on the floor with JR

(08:01):
Riders on the team, and you guys were weirdly kind
of ala. You guarded way better, but you were bigger too,
but you posted up. Both of you were bouncy and
could handle and shoot. It was just a problem team.
But to hear you had nerves, you know, it means something.
You know, it really does. And it's funny you said
that about the face because you know, I'll still laugh

(08:21):
about it because if you know me in real life,
of the life of the party, I'm a joker. I
played too damn much. But you know that that poker
face came from my father. I remember when I was younger,
and I don't know if you're you know, remember this word,
but whenever you're on the court playing around, they consider
you dagging. Like stop dagging, stop playing around. So my
dad used to say that all the time. He used
to be like, man, listen, man, you keep dagging, You're
gonna get hurt on the court. So he was like, listen,

(08:44):
I don't care what if I catch you playing around
on that court again. It's gonna be me and you,
he said before the game. But be bonds whenever, he said,
But when you get on that court, I better see
you stone faced. I don't want to see you messing around.
You better be locked in trying to kill these dudes.
And you know, and once I started having that mindset,
it helped me. And I remember one game, it was
years after I was in the NBA, and I was

(09:04):
out there playing around this and that. My pops is
on the East coast time, you know, when on the
West coast. He probably caught me like two in the morning, like,
hey man, good game. Y'alla YadA yalla, But man, you
need to put all that playing around and all that
smiling on the course. And I was like, I'm like, Pops,
come on, man. You know he was joking or whatever,
but you know, still for him to still recognize that,
it's just something that always stuck with me, like, you know,
be serious out there, like you know, because it's your job.

(09:26):
You know what I'm saying. My Pop's worked in the
factory thirty years and he was a you know, blue
collar worker. You know, he's a factory workers, similar line worker,
so he understands, you know, a hard days of work,
a hard days pay, you know, a good pay. So
that was his whole thing with me, like, man, you
gotta go out there and work hard because everybody wants
your job, so you gotta take this serious. And I
really respected him for that, and a lot of people
took it as like, yo, he's mean and this and that,
and I'm like, brou I'm just out here just trying

(09:47):
to be serious because I know it's millions out here
that would love to be in my situation. So that's
just all it was for me. I wasn't trying to disrespect.
I was just trying to compete. Man. That's beautiful, Yeah,
just beautiful. I mean, because you know, that's valuable. I
wish you guys would have had this sort of platform, yeah,
back when y'all were playing, because this would have been

(10:08):
valuable for people to see, you know that you were
beyond you know what we'll get into with the Jailblazers.
Just ridiculous. If there was one consistent featuring trait of
those late nineties Trailblazer teams. It was how unfairly they
were portrayed in the press. The term Jailblazers was coined

(10:31):
in nineteen ninety six by a cover article of local
paper in Portland. That reputation hung with them for their
entire run. Playing in Portland then meant having a playoff pedigree.
The Trailblazers had made it to the postseason every season
since nineteen eighty two. Expectations were high. When you got

(10:51):
to Portland, what were your impressions of the city. You
hadn't been out of months? E Man, it's way different, man.
I thought I was in New York City. I mean
when I was. When I got to downtown Portland, I
was like, oh my goodness, look at these high rises
and all these big businesses and stuff clustered together, like
it's a real downtown. And I was just seeing stuff.
And it was it was rainy when I got there,
you know, the Upper Northwest it was around at the time.

(11:12):
It was raining, but I didn't even care. It was
just like, look how green this place is. I could
see mountainous areas. It smelled different out there, the air
was different. I was just like like wild and it
took me a little while to get adjusted to it
because you know, it was just away from home. It
was different from Midwest living. But once I got intertwined
to the city and my teammates really took him under
their wing. You know, I'm thankful for Damon Stodomier because

(11:34):
he's from Portland, so he put me on to Portland
and people in Portland where I could go to, you know,
shout out to Terrell Brandon's barbershop because that was our
hub for guys to go to, and kind of you
know what I'm saying, kind of intertwined the people and
and embraced me, showed me love. I mean it was
nothing but love at first. I mean when we first
got there, it was a it was just great. Here's

(11:54):
what I really want to know. What was the team chemistry? Like,
how did all these different people co exist? What was
it like in practice? What was it like off nights
in a shortened season shoot man practice and as you know,
when you got three solid fives, practice can get gritty,
you know what I'm saying. Practice, And that's what it
was with us. We used to say man practices were
harder than the games sometimes because we were going at

(12:17):
it so tough. And I remember our first union was
Damon Jr. Walt Sheet, and Sabonis. Then the second union
was Greg Anthony, Jimmy, Walt williams uh somebody else. And
it was like thinking, like something I can't even remember.
Then on the third unions, me and jo and and
we used to I'm talking we was the young boys. Yeah,
we was the young boys and we used to just

(12:38):
go at them and we used to go at it.
So practice was just crazy. I mean, we was just
I mean by time we got through a practice, I
mean we was fighting each other. You know, it was
wars in there. You know, we would fighting. We was fighting,
like for real, fighting like scrapping. And then, you know
what I'm saying, by time we get into the locker room,
were brothers and hugging and it's all good and it's
all love. I see you tomorrow. We're gonna fight again tomorrow.
You know how to go. But you know those were

(12:59):
the good time. And then you know, after we lead
a gym, you know it's our downtime. So we What
I loved about our team is that when it's time
to hang out, out of the fifteen guys, you're gonna
have at least ten every single time. And that's when
you knew our team was tight knit, that we wasn't
going anywhere without each other. I mean, we wouldn't leave
the hotel if we were going out somewhere in our
city where in Portland we call them everybody and we're

(13:20):
linking up before we even make a move. Because that's
how tight we was. And that's why I loved our team.
I like, when I got traded, I was disgusted because
I didn't want to leave my brothers because I was like,
I don't I don't know if I'm able to find
a bond like this, because these dudes are my brothers
for real. Do you remember the first time you heard
the term jail blazers? How did that make you feel? Man?

(13:41):
When I first heard it, man, I thought it was
cool at first, because you know what I'm saying, I
didn't understand. I wasn't thinking about the cultural part of it.
I think maybe a lot of us might have because
thinking back, you know, because y'all kind of it wasn't
like you ran from its. Where were you gonna run?
How are you gonna run? I mean? But so in
a weird way. It kind of reminded me of like

(14:02):
the Raiders, you know, or the bad Boys, Like that
was bad boys, that was our identity, Like Okay, this
is who we are with some bad boys. You know
what I'm saying. I like I internalized that in my mind.
Is like it's in term of endearment at first, you
know what I mean, Like okay, but until they just started,
you know, putting thugs on sail. You know, you're we
read the articles and stuff. So then when you can

(14:24):
start seeing the thugs and quotes and all this stuff,
and you'd be like, hold up, brou hold up, hold up.
Now you can call us jail blazers and we are
here on some tough guys stuff, But don't put that
on us, like we're really going to jail and we're
doing this stuff, because that's real. Like they don't understand
like how that stuff follows you throughout your whole life
and your whole career and and one thing, as a

(14:45):
black man, we don't want our names associated with being
in jail. So, like I said, we kind of just
played it like it's a terminal endearment. Let's just use
it for what it is worth. From what it is
and we can kind of like, you know, this is
who we are in high by hind a little bit,
but realistically it was some bullshit. Yeah, it was bless
y'all for playing through it, because I know a lot

(15:06):
of people couldn't. All right, So at some point, you know,
newspapers start reporting things and what was the blowback when
you know, all of a sudden, the laws involved that
you guys are in the headlines mighty mouse rusheet can
tell woods queue uh, I mean, tell me about it,
because I remember seeing it be like, what in the
world is going on over there? You know, brou It

(15:28):
was funny to us because it really wasn't like that,
you know what I mean, I believe you know what
I mean. That's why we used to trip. We used
to be laughing. We used to be like because we
looked at it like they have us were like jaywalking
with the intent to kill, you know what I mean,
That's how they and we used to be like, bruh,
that didn't even happen like that. But when you got
people writing newspapers and on the media outlet, they're great wordsmiths,

(15:49):
and once they paint that picture and our whole thing
was like, man, we're not going to defend ourselves. Why
we got to defend ourselves to him with being they
just hating him talking because I know for myself, I
didn't understand it, so sat the press, I didn't understand.
It went really across the world. This is who you.
We were just like, man, we just out here hooping,
like man, we win in fifty plus games every year.
We're making these runs. Man, we don't care about what
the haters are saying, so we didn't. We didn't address

(16:12):
a lot of that stuff. I know, I never said
nothing about all the stuff they were saying. Rashid kind
of made his stance. Uh. Both teams played hard and
he didn't really want to give him anything. You know,
Damon always stayed professional. But it was just crazy that
you just kind of saw how these news reporters were
just every time just I don't care what we did good,
they always remind us of the bad. Oh the Blazers
played good today, but yeah, you remember Damon him got

(16:34):
pulled over seven months ago for that we charge Huh,
And you'd be like, man, what the You'd be like, man,
what that got to do with you? Remember bonds? He
got seventeen technical fouls last year, even though he had
thirty five a day. We don't we don't forget them
seventeen texts you had two years ago. We used black
Brouh like Luka got seventeen this year. Yeah, but they
ain't gonna say that. But you know what I'm saying.
But that's that's how it used to be easy. And

(16:54):
we used to be like Brouh, Like, man, you gotta understand, man,
we're not mistake free people. But they used to make
it like we just making mistakes on purpose, and we
felons and were bad dudes, and we used to be
like Brouh. It w used to piss me off too,
because I'm family oriented and people gotta they gotta understand
when they're knocking us, they're knocking our whole family. So
it's a domino effect. Our mothers, our fathers, our grandparents,
great grandparent, uncles and everybody who supported us. It's like, damn,

(17:17):
why they're saying that about our son. We know he
ain't like that, and it hurts deeper than just to
me and I then we never understood that, and that's
why we like the guys that was out there. I
was writing all the articles and then they're trying to
be in your face the next day. They write the
worst shit about you and your family and then put
up a mic in your face the next day and
ask you some questions you do after you don't read it,
and you'd be looking at this clown like and that's
when you get some of them bad sound bites because

(17:39):
you kind of tight that this dude wrote the worst
thing about you and your family, your family name, and
then now he wanted to be cool twelve hours later,
like come on, brouh. Yeah, you know I when you
say that, it gives me all kinds of emotions, But
mainly I feel bad. I feel bad because where the
hell were all the rest of us? And now I

(17:59):
know it wasn't like we were seeing. There was no internet,
and this was in the nineties, in early two thousand,
so it wasn't like it is now. But can you
imagine a team in the league today being treated that
way and the other players on other teams not guys
would stand up today and see, I feel bad that

(18:20):
we didn't back then for you guys, And maybe we
didn't know the extent of it, but still, I mean,
what was going on was wrong, but you know, when
we were in it, we didn't think about it like that.
Like you know, like we're looking at the reporters that
was writing and we're like, man, them do some clowns?
They don't even you know what I mean, Like if
if people saw the people out writing and we're like, man,

(18:41):
not no disrespect to them, but like, man, these dudes
ain't like they're just writing stuff just to hate and
trying to blow up their names so they could become,
you know, elevate themselves. We get it. You know what
I'm saying, We ain't, you know, and I'm not trying
to disrespect them. But that's how we was like, that's
clown stuff to us, because you know what I'm saying,
you're using us to springboard your career. That's why I'm
calling them clowns. So that's how we looked at and
we was like, man, we don't them dudes. Opendion don't matter. Man.

(19:02):
We over here grinding trying to win a championship. That's it.
That's all we care about. And every time we felt short,
they amplified their voice of hating and trying to bring
us down and bring us down more and bring us down.
And it was like, bruh, We're the only game in town.
We're trying to win a championship. Why are you trying
to bring the negative when it should bring more positive
stuff out here so we can at least get the

(19:23):
league on notice that we got some positive stuff in
Portland and hopefully they let us win a championship again.
But but since you're writing all this negative stuff about us,
the NBA don't want us represent the NBA as the
jail Blazers the world champions How would they here wrap that,
you know what I mean? How would they had wrap
that bowl of us jail Blazer the bad Boys. I mean,
they probably hated to give Detroit Bad Boys the championship

(19:45):
back then, so they you know what I mean, So
they weren't gonna let us win a championship. And that's
what we didn't understand, Like why are y'all against us
when we're trying to win? We winning fifty to sixty
games a year and we were making runs and y'all
making an extra hard and that was just one of
the things we didn't understand and like totally as a team.
And I think the thing that probably the rest of us.
That confused everything was that y'all packed it every night.

(20:08):
They loved y'all. They loved y'all. It wasn't like they
thought you were bad guys and you were losing. You
were winning winning in Portland. Oh, the fans were amazing.
I mean like twenty thousand every night everywhere you go to.
And that's what we was tripping off of. Like the fans.
I mean, they didn't start doing us until it was
like later on when it got bad. But when it
was like they would write all the bad stuff, we

(20:28):
didn't even care because the fans showed us that they
wasn't tripping. They were like, man, we weren't tripping. Let's
go about it. Ah they you know, the fans are crazy.
So we were like, yeah, that's what's up. But then
when it went bad, we were like, ah, man, they
falling for the sauce, Like oh, they starting to read
this stuff and starting to really unders think we're like that.
And on top of not winning championships, that can make
people tight too. So I kind of understood it towards

(20:50):
the end, but at first it was like, Wow, why
would y'all do this to us? You said back in
the day, that the press came for you, you and
your family name at a time where you couldn't spawn.
You said, they misquoted you badly. They also misquoted you badly.
I know. How difficult is it dealing with the media
as an NBA player in that sort of frenzy. It

(21:12):
makes you not want to deal with them, you know
what I mean, Like I'd rather talk more on I
used to talk more on the road, and I would
talk at home, you know what I mean, because you know,
because you have to roll reporters that you know you're
only gonna see, you know, once, maybe twice this year,
or maybe in the playoffs, And you know, they asked
you a cool They some dudes be fishing every now
and then, but I would give them more of a chance.
But them people that you saw every single day, that

(21:34):
you knowing, is just trying to beat you down and
wear you down and basically cost you money by the
end of the day, you know what I mean, Like
you don't really have time for them. And that's that
was one of the things, Like media was just so
stupid to me. But you know, as you know, if
you don't talk to the media, you're gonna get that
little pink slip on your chair and a little fine
money gonna come. So it kind of puts you in
a trick bag that you know, and it just depending

(21:56):
on what type of motion you're in, Like if I'm
mad and I feel like going on my rants. We've
all seen these rants that went viral, so you know,
and then you gotta kind of watch what you say
because then the other finally come that what's that conduct
detrimental to the league or to the team, So if
you say something stupid, you're gonna get their fifty k fine.
So it was always a fine line. So you always
just kind of just played the game, like you know,

(22:16):
like Rashid said, both teams play hard because he just
kept him consistent so he wouldn't lose no money. Both
teams play hard, man, he was a good game. Both
teams play hard. Both teams play hard. Both teams play hard.
About blessing good night? Yeah, all right, give me a
second ass this question. I want to preface it a
little bit. So you were traded to Memphis and your

(22:38):
team and and friend Rashid Wallace vented his frustrations finally
had some strong language, right, but had other stronger language
about African American players. He said, quote, it's as if
we're just going to shut up, sign for the money
and do what they tell us. That outburst, that explosion
seemed like it was a long time coming. You know,

(23:01):
you guys have been painted in such a light for
so long that Rashid felt the need to lash out
at then Commissioner David Stern in such a way that
was mostly swept under the rug. If you and your
Blazers team played today, Bonzi, how do you think fans
and media would treat you? Oh, they would love us
because they wouldn't let the media handle us like that,

(23:21):
you know what I mean. And if they did try
to handle us like that, we jumping on this thing immediately. Man,
they lying, may lying. Didn't even happen like that. Nope,
I mean, I wasn't doing nothing chilling. Matter of fact,
you know, because we have evidence now, they ain't gonna
be able to play us like they did. Like the
police ain't pulling us over like me. You gotta understand,
the police used to pull us over as soon as
we left the arena. We were like, bro, at least
let's get a chance to get a drinking us or something.

(23:41):
Get to the club, you're gonna pull us over now,
like damn you jumping the gun, bro Like, Like we
used to go to the club and they don't have
their little spies in there to see how many drinks
we having, and they'd call their people. They'd be waiting
on us to lead the clubs. They can pull us
over down the street just to say, hey, he's been
drinking and driving, or hey, we smell a stinch that
we thought was marijuana, just the kind just to put
the you know, saying, just put that out there and

(24:02):
then you know you might get arrested with it, but
then just throw that out there in the atmosphere. And
that's just what it was, man, And it just really
sucked that that's how he used to try to handle us.
But if it was in today's world, we have our camera, like, no, hey,
what you say, We ain't got nothing in here, right
and we have our evidence. We didn't have no evidence,
and we didn't have no voice. And that's this, you know,
we felt like we, you know, were the voiceless back there.

(24:27):
In November of two thousand and two, Rashid Wallace and
Damon Stoddemyer were pulled over for speeding after a game
in Seattle and cops found marijuana in their vehicle. It
was part of a pattern. Even in their hometown. A
target was firmly on the backs of these quote unquote
jailblazers of Portland. All right, let's change gears for a second.

(24:48):
Let's start with weed, which I used to maintain. How
did it bond y'all's team? Or did it? I mean see,
And this is what I used to try to tell
the NBA back in the day. I said, y'all got
the game twisted. I said, y'all need to ban alcohol
and let people not for real, y'all need to ban
alcohol and let people smoke weed because weed is the

(25:09):
best babysitter you can ever get. Like I said, if
y'all want people at home eating some chicken nuggets and
got their feet up, give them a couple joints. But
if you want these dudes turned up and out here
making reckless decisions and all that stuff, take the joints
away from them, because they're gonna be at the club,
they're gonna be drinking, and next thing, you know, a
mistake could be made and it could be very costly

(25:29):
for someone. And you know, what I'm saying. So that's
what I used to try to explain to them, and
they used to look at us like all your drug
eas and all y'all smoke weed and this and that.
We're like, bro, we just smoke weed because we don't.
We don't smoke weed to get high. We're just chilling.
We don't. We're not trying to get high and doing drugs.
Ain't not here on that. We're just chilling. And if
you know anything about marijuana, it's a peaceful drug. And
it's a drug that you can smoke. I don't even
want to call it a drug. It's a plant, right,

(25:51):
That's what I say. It's my medicine. Man's I gotta
use it to maintain to deal with the bullshit. So
I was like, man, I said, brou all we doing
is smoking some weed and chilling. We ain't trying to
go out win wallowing all that stuff. So that's when
they started like making it like it was a bad thing.
And then our this is our biggest beef. Why are
y'all felifying us? And y'all love love love Bill Walton,

(26:14):
who's a fucking hippie. I've been with the NBA for
forty three years, there's never been a fan face that
would bring the shines about where they're from, who they love,
what you're stand for, what you're represent. I remember the
Shinins on this shine ship. Jag Organ loves the pleasures. Yeah,
we stood tall and proud, spark it out, let's go

(26:37):
there you go. We were like, bruh, he out here,
grateful daddy on in front of everybody, in front of it.
I'm not saying Big Red has done anything and all
that stuff, but I'm just saying in theory, if you want,
you know what I'm saying. So that's what our problem.
We're like, yo, okay, what makes his stuff like? Oh,
Bill Walton is the best thing ero. He can do
no wrong. And don't get me wrong, he won a championship.
He was a part of the championship team and he

(26:58):
did it. But the off the course stuff, it's the
same as ours. And we we was vilifying like all
these woke weed I can't believe they're getting high and
this and that, and I'm like, brou we're getting who
fun wrong with y'all as race as them? Yeah, I mean,
but you gotta think if we would have said that
back then, and I'm still not even I'm not even
saying it today like that because I know it's tough times,

(27:19):
you know what I'm saying, and if people understand what
it is that it ain't gonna be explained or said.
But it was just like, you know, if you say
anything back then you get you get fined for conduct
detrimental to the league. That you could be black black
That was a lot of what a lot of people
didn't understand because look, there was only one person making
that kind of well Shack and Michael. The rest of

(27:40):
the guys in the league in the seventies, eighties, nineties. Man,
you're just trying to stay in the league for as
long as you can, and you know, not everybody is
a star. So I always wondered how that was going.
Did you feel like Portland the longer you were there,
did you realize it had any sort of racist tendencies
or did you ever notice that from the fans. I

(28:02):
would never say it from the fans. I never felt
that from the fans. I never felt one time where
I was out and somebody was making me feel a
racist vibe. But I just felt the way they was
portraying us through the media. That's just what it was
for us. I mean, I'm for myself personally, I never
but you know, I'm six six, you know I'm a
going out here. You know what I'm saying. So ain't
too many people gonna be coming to me like yo
on some racist stuff because you know what I mean. So,

(28:23):
I you know my walk is different than other people's.
But just through the media, and when they put the
term jailblazers on us, that let us know everything we
needed to know because I listen, I get it, but
ain't none of you dudes or rappers. I know, trailblazers
and jailblazers rhyme. But y'all ain't know y'all ain't you know?
Say yall ain't jay Z or nothing. You know, a
little baby or nothing people out here, So quit trying
to make stuff rhyme. Just say what you're saying. So

(28:44):
then when that moniker was on us, we over here
looking like hold up bruh. First of all, as black
men in our family, we our whole job is to
try to go through life without being in anybody's system.
We don't want to We don't never want to be arrested.
Have you know, no disrespect. I'm looking at your your
charges with rec Chapman and my picture over here. But
that's one of the things we never wanted, you know

(29:05):
what I'm saying, because generationally, that's all you know, that's
all your family knows and friends know, is people getting arrested,
going to jail, the cycle and when they put that
on us, and a lot of us has never been
to jail. I ain't never been to nobody's jail. I've
been arrested before some bullcrap, but I ain't never been
to jail. See and I have, and you you just
said it exactly looking at my mug shot. I was,
you know, researching, doing all the stuff that I do

(29:27):
for these U episodes, and you know, I'm looking around.
I didn't see mug shots, y'all, no mug shots. But
you let the media tell it. And it's a whole
different story because nobody, you know, they think jail blazers.
They just went along with it. These are guys that
are just bad news. They're bad trouble or thugs, which

(29:48):
is ridiculous, and that's what it was. And they used
to portray us. I mean, they did the Sports Illustrated
article and they just wrote all this bad stuff about us,
and they wrote some stuff like Bonds he said, he
hate the fans. They were just writing all this bad
and I was just like broh, like I get it.
But then for us it kind of felt like this
is what we used to kind of feel like you
know how in every movie is the good guy and

(30:09):
the bad guy, the villain. We were okay being the villains,
you know what I'm saying, because like, okay, yeah, I
thought y'all we embraced it because we had to because
back then it was not like you said just a
minute ago, we couldn't call it out because we don't
cost our careers. So we just almost had to, you know,
be tough with it, like Okay, yeah, we're gonna come
in this smug and be who y'all want us to be.
And sometimes maybe it got out of hand, but you know,

(30:31):
it took on the life of itself because everybody perceived
us as that. Like perception is reality for everybody. So
if you don't know people, if you perceive them to something,
and that's who you totally concrete that's who you think
they are, and that's what carried like that whole Moniker
has carried through me to this day. If people see
me right now, they're gonna handle me and like, oh shit,
let's be cool because Bonds he might go off and

(30:52):
turn into that jail blazer person that we heard about,
and they'll handled me and such and they all be
all cool, Yes, sir bods, Yeah, everything's cool, Everything cooler.
As soon as I leave, they'd be like, who shit,
who glad we didn't catch that. And I'm be like
man brou if you really knew me in real life,
they're gon be like man one thing about him. He
played too much. I'm solid as a riot, but I
ain't never on no bullshit. Hey, but Bonzie, I'm telling

(31:15):
you that shit worked. It worked. When you played it worked,
it worked. It worked. The legacy of marijuana criminalization is
having a reckoning in our society, but also in the NBA.
Pod is now legal in fourteen states, including of course, Oregon,
which makes it all the more ironic that this team
was attacked and stigmatized for their use of a drug

(31:37):
that's now celebrated in popular culture. When we saw stars
like Rashid Wallace and Damon Stoddermeyer blasted in the headlines,
it was about marijuana. Damon even had felony marijuana charges
filed against him after police searched his home. For context,
the NBA isn't even drug testing this season. Not only

(32:00):
now is h weed legal in Oregon? Yeah, and it
has its first decriminalization law in place. Now, how does
it make you feel? Given all the aggravation y'all were
presented with while living there, I feel like they owe
some reparations. Hey, go oh man, ya owe something? Man,

(32:22):
that was a big apology something. It was a big
a pound of weed or something. I mean hazard pay. Yeah, man,
the hazard pay for all those years they got to
send us a free pound of weed every six months
or something. Man, just something from what I did does.
But now it was, you know, just that's what it is, man.
They finally got the understanding instead of criminalizing, they understand.
They finally got the stick up out of their asses

(32:44):
and just looked at the numbers and just looked at
the data like this is the data. Like I mean,
I'm still trying to find out how many marijuana deaths
they have been in the world compared to alcohol deaths.
Hear all the other stuff, and that's what it is.
For a lot of guys like it's not about trying
to do drugs and get high, It's just more just
about relaxing, Like guys are. This is such a social

(33:05):
drug as crazy. And I've never seen nobody just on
the ground and just lost everything because he's smoked a joint.
I've just seen him happy and want him to get
a sandwich and some chips. Alcohol parties end in fights,
and weed parties in in love. You know, it's that yeah,
you know, I'm an advocate, of course for marijuana and opioids,

(33:25):
recovering against opioids. When you got hurt during your career,
did you take any pain killers? Were you using weed
at the time maybe just at the time you knew
it helped with pain. I don't know. I'm asking do
you think and should it be allowed for guys in
the season. Honestly, man, I've never been a drug guy. Man,
I mean, but I don't consider weed. I mean, I've
been smoking weed my whole life. I've been smoking weeds
since I was probably fourteen years old, since I was

(33:47):
a young and but I've never looked at weed as
a drug, you know what I mean. But when it
was coming to like doing real drugs. I'm like, no,
I'm cool. I don't even like taking Tyler all and
all that stuff. I mean, I mean, I'll take it
because I understand it. But I used to be worried
about the anti inflammatories back in the day. You remember
they's giving those anti inflammatories and and I knew what
it was. The stomach up and you're doing all the stuff,

(34:07):
and I remember taking those and I was like, man,
I don't really like drugs in my body like that.
But weed always understood weed because weed has always been
something that makes me really feel my body, like when
you know, like when I if I smoke, I can
just sit back and just really chill and I can
just really just take a real calibration on my body,
like I feel my body and just but then it
also relaxes me, like, Okay, I supposed to be off

(34:29):
my feet. If I'm hurt, I'm gonna be off my
feet and relaxing, just kind of just chilling. I don't
want to turn up, I don't want to do anything.
So I've always been an advocate of someone like smoking
marijuana over doing any other drug. Oh is it after
the game thing? For you? Could you do it on game? Days. See,
it don't matter for me. I mean, it don't matter,
like it's all day for me. You know, It's okay,

(34:50):
seem like me I smoke, you smoke for the game.
That's not I'm like, man, I don't. I guess you
say yeah, but it's like, yeah, I like it before
now yeah, I was like, yeah, I'll be like I
didn't like the games at seven. I ain't smoke at
six fifty nine, and no shit like that. But you
know what I'm saying, we don't have a long day,
and it's you know, and people don't understand the ax,
like like this is what I tell people. I said,
I'll be worried about somebody smoking a jointment or blunt

(35:12):
before the game, but was nobody was tripping When Jordan
was smoking his long ass cigar in the locker room
before every game, I said, man, I said, that's a
big ass tobacco thing is you know that's killing that
man right now straight train cancer and nobody even nobody
even batter the eye. So but if imagine somebody sitting
in the locker room with a joint before a game
talking about yeah, man, you know, you know, come on,

(35:36):
I'm with you. I'm with you. So that's why you know.
I've always been like, man, listen, smoke a good old joint.
You won't never drink again. As I tell everybody, you'll
understand what it is because it's not it's like a
good lane for the for the people that just want
to stay in the slow lane, like this is just
perfect lane that's well put. Yeah. I came in and
walked in my first locker room, first exhibition game, my

(35:58):
rookie year or two guys looking cigarettes wow in the
locker room. In the locker room, wow, and nobody better
to eye, nobody better. But I was like, what the
fuck is going on around? But if you walked there
way to a joint, boy, you would have it would
have been smoking. With the game two Blazer Jan Mavericks

(36:24):
welves again barely, Curtland out the perimeter. Wells's carrying Portland's Wells.
It's got twelve thirteen, Portland's fifteen points again again. Whatever
he's putting up bits coming down Cotton Wells. What's a tree?

(36:46):
What's true? Will's response to n Fitzky's fire from team
So all right, jail Blazers done, I want to talk
about your Blazers teams, not the jail Blazers, the Trailblazers
teams in a positive right now, because you guys were really,
really good. Let's start with your rookie year strikes shortened season.

(37:09):
You guys get the number one seed in the West
and but you end up getting eventually swept by assuming
to be champion Spurs with Timmy Duncan and the Admiral
David Robinson in the Western Conference finals. You didn't get
much playing time on that squad. But what did you
learn the most from that season? First of all, we
should have beat San Antonio. And you know, I don't

(37:31):
know if you remember that shot to Sean Elliott hit
when he was he was on his tiptoes, he should
have been out of bound. But we had dominated that
team that whole game. And I think that series was
when the I think, if I'm not mistaken, it was
inner turmoil stuff going on amongst the team. You know,
we were having a power of struggle in terms of
who's going to be the man who's finishing stuff. I
think that's what it was. When I was young, so

(37:53):
I didn't really understand all the ends and outs, but
from my recollection, it's just the continuity down the stretch
and then the it seemed like we were just kind
of falling apart a little bit. So that's what I
do remember, is in terms of Okay, we can't have
that and crunch times like this, like I gotta stay
you know, I always gotta stay locked in, like I
gotta understand his team, and then I gotta sacrifice. I'm

(38:13):
used to like when in college. You know, I was
twenty five in college, so you know everybody that was
twenty five. So then when you come to the pros,
you gotta sacrifice. So that's when I understood, like, Okay,
ten points, it's going to be my twenty five. You
know what I'm saying. Twelve points is gonna be my
twenty five. If I get fifteen, that's my thirty. Like that,
you know, you had to so I had to change
my mindset, like I just want to be a part
of this. How did you do that? How did you

(38:34):
know to do that? I mean I didn't do that.
I never thought about that. I mean I guess I
did at some point, but I didn't. It wasn't something
I was aware of. Well, it kind of took me
back to my when I was as shorty, when you know,
my OG's first started letting me play on the court
with him, and you know how it probably was for you.
You don't get no offensive calls. You gotta go get hustle, plays, rebounds.

(38:54):
You gotta show us that you can play, and then
we might throw you a bone, and then so on
and so on. So I took that same philosophy, like, Okay,
I got a grind and show these dudes. I'm anna hustle. Dude,
I'm gonna start cutting hard. I'm gonna run these lanes.
I'm ana pit boards on defense. And then once they
started trusting me, okay, let's throw Bonds a bone. Let's
get him a post play. And then once like I
was never even a post guy ever. I was a slasher.

(39:16):
So but then I posted a couple of guys and Jr.
Showed me how to post and really get big, and
I was like, oh, this is all you gotta do
and he was like yeah, So he was like all right.
So then he showed me my first year, and then
you know, as we get to going on my second year,
we bring in a technical guy like Steve Smith, who
showed who shows me all the ins and out, some
post spins, clamps, pump fakes, subtle moves. You know. He

(39:39):
even showed me the smithy that I never I never
could get. But just stuff like that was just it was.
It was just perfect. I'm sorry for going fast forward
past a year, but no, that's all right. Fact the
perfect segue because the next year you get twenty minutes
a game and veteran influx that lives shrimp Steve Scottie. Ye,
it was a big deal leaving chicag What were the

(40:00):
expectations put on you at that point and your teammates
by the press going into that season ninety nine two thousand,
it was different because I remember going into that summer.
I remember the gym called me into his office and
he was like, hey, really like you, we're going into
the summer league. If you have a really good summer league,
we'll make something happen for you to be able to
play next year. So I'm like, you know, okay, you know,
you know, I'm thinking they're telling everybody on the exit

(40:22):
meeting shit like that. So I'm like, all right, cool.
So confidence is through the roof. I had great four
and a half months practicing with the guys. My confidence
was through the roof. So I'm like, Okay, if I
go to the Summer League, I'm gonna kill these dudes
because I've been hooping against Ice every day. Ice stacey
'all going and guarding me every day, and I was
starting to score on him. I'm starting to actually, you know,
I'm thinking, my mind, he can't really guard me like that.
So my confidence is through the roof. I'm not, you know.

(40:43):
So I go into like this is when it was
at Long Beach. You remember the Summer League was at
Long Beach. Oh yeah, So I went to Long Beach
and I average about thirty and I ended up winning MVP.
I ended up winning like MVP out there. And then
I think we went to Salt Lake City and I
average about twenty nine out there, and I remember I
came home and then like a month later, they traded
uh Jr. And Jimmy, who were both in front of me,

(41:03):
and they brought in Steve Smith and they was like, hey,
we're bringing in Smitty. It's gonna be his spot, but
we're gonna have him groom and mentor you for this spot.
If you know what I'm saying, If you do the
right stuff kind of you know whatever. Smithy was kind
of on the other side of his career. So when
Smitty and then he was like, hey, we got another
trade that we're thinking about doing. We're thinking about bringing
in Scottie Pippen. I literally almost feigning like, oh so,
you know, like wg in is a local channel for

(41:25):
ours and you know, everybody loved Mike and I love
Mike too, but I pattern I used to try to
be like a Scottie Pippen, like more well rounded, you
know what I'm saying. Point forward, could dribble, play defense,
you know, pass, So that was one of the guys
I tried to pattern my game on on top of
playing trying to play like Glenn Robinson. That was really
my my guy guy. But you know that was just
you know, when they brought Scotty in, it was just like,

(41:47):
oh my goodness. And then you know, they brought in
Dela Shrimp and you know, Deli's just played for the
Pacers back in the day and I'm a huge Pacer
fan and he was our six man guys. So I
was like, oh man, they bringing in some dogs. So
then the conversation goes from okay, I went to the
Western Conference was last year. Now we got some reinforcements.
This is a championship team. What y'all gonna do? So
the mindset was different, the practices were different. The paying

(42:08):
attention to detail was different than intensity was different. Like
our first year were just out there all guerrilla, and
then on the second year, now we got veteran players
in there. That was like, okay, yeah, you can grill
it for a minute, but all right, let me reel
y'all back in. Let's get back locked in. So that's
what was good about them is that they'll let us
get away a little bit, but then the ogs are
real us back in, Like, all right, let's let's get
back focused, you know, for the most part. So y'all

(42:30):
end up really good that year. Western Conference Finals again,
Game seven, Shack and Kobe. You guys got a fifteen
point lead, bro I am, and then the historic comeback
capped off by that big Kobe shack Alley. How did
the team change after that loss? Three time outs, two

(42:55):
playing five to four, and the last nine minutes fifty
second Man, I was so sickening, man, it was. You know,
I've only been able to watch it since. Rest in
peace cold. That's the only reason why I watch it now,

(43:16):
because I couldn't watch it. It It was sickening because for me,
you know, that was just a heck of a series.
You know, the Lakers had jumped on us, and then
you know, we had got our confidence and we were
just rolling. We was playing well, and then we were
just they were defeated. I mean, you know, we were
up seventeen, remember, I mean, I'm looking at him in
their eyes on the bench, everybody's head down, the whole
Staple Center is crazy, and I just think it just

(43:36):
a couple adjustments that coach made that kind of, you know,
changed the momentium. I think Brian Shaw hit the three
at the end of the third quarter that kind of
gave him a little momentium. I think they was down
like twelve thirteen, and you know, twelve thirteen the NBA
game is nothing, and especially when it's twelve minutes. I
would just remember watching the score and I was like,
how was the score going faster than the clock? Like,

(43:56):
I was like, how is the score, like the deficitors
going like over thirteen twelve. I'm looking at the clock,
it's eleven fifty nine, eleven fifty eight. Down set, like,
you know, I was like, man him. So I just
kept looking back and forth and and it was crazy.
We went from the hottest team in the world for
like three games in three quarters until we missed thirteen

(44:17):
straight shots. Bro. It was unbelievable shots that we were hitting,
and it was just like, that's just what it was.
It was just in the cards for them win. And
I just remember that, you know, I was sitting on
the bench when we were up and they ended up
playing Indiana for the championship, and I was just thinking
to myself, like, dang, we're gonna play the Patients for
the championship. I'm gonna be able to go home and
win a chip like I had it. I'm gonna have
a party. I'm turned up, I'm at parade. I had

(44:38):
all this stuff on my mind, and I just looked
up at the score like dad were down, and I
was like, oh my goodness, soul was over. And I
just remember, you know, I'm young, I'm on my second year,
and I just remember going to the locker room thinking like,
oh shit, we'll be back next year because I don't
went to the Western Conference finals two years in a row,
Like oh shit, this is easy. We'll be back next year.
I wasn't tripping, but the older guys they're going crazy,
and ah they are. I'm over here looking like, man,

(45:00):
we're fine. You know what I'm saying. We got them,
We were back. But it just right after that, you know, management,
you know Bob Wits and all those guys, they were
just kind of got caught up in trades and trades
and just start trying to bring in, you know, guys
that were established pros. Well, I'll go through it right
then and there two thousand off season, things really changed

(45:22):
after going to two straight Western Conference party Brian Grant
for Sean Kemp, Jermaine O'Neill for Dale Davis. Ye. Rubin
was signed as a freed agent, but he brought some
baggage with him. You guys won forty two of your
first sixty games, then lost fourteen of your last twenty two.
You got hurt for the season. Yeah, but tore My

(45:44):
c Yep, you got hurt for the season. The team
got swept in the first round of the playoffs against
the Lakers. Was that the beginning of the end? I
think it was because it became to the point where
they was just trying to move pieces and saying, hey,
go win a championship, go play well, and they wasn't
understanding the reality of okay, like some of the names

(46:05):
that you name, it came in like okay. For example,
like a Sean Kimp. Sean Kimp has never been a
role player. He's been a star, right, So you're asking
stars to come in and being adjusted to adjust on
the fly. And as you know, it take a little
time to get some cohesiveness with different players, and then
they gotta understand how we play. We gotta understand how
he played. It's an adjustment. You know, he may not

(46:25):
be playing how he's used to hear the grumbling the rumbling,
and that's just not him and would just be with
all our different players, because we had a lot of
guys that were franchise players at one time in their career.
So as that stuff started coming along, you'll hear all
the grumbling and it's like uh. And then you know,
like instead of ten guys hanging out going to the
club and hanging out together now and getting down like

(46:46):
eight and seven, And then you started to see kind
of like the decline of it. And then by telling
my fifth year, I remember the training Kemp Rashid came
in was like, hey, Bons, these are last couple of
days here. May you might as well sell your crib
because we're about to get traded Because they brought this
guy to trade. Everybody's name was John nash and they
like John Nashville and me and watching. Yeah, so we

(47:07):
knew it. It It was the beginning of the end once
they started, Like my third year, I knew what it
was so set. I'm starting my fourth year going into
my fourth year. Last summer summer twenty twenty, a lot
of unrest in the country was taken head on by
the NBA actually in the bubble. How did you feel
about it then? And what would you like to see
done by the league now? To continue that messaging. I

(47:29):
couldn't have been even more proud of my NBA last year.
I mean, they stepped up big time in this social situation, man.
I mean I mean our players stepped up. I mean,
bron see just all our guys that was supposed to
step up stepped up. Man. And just you know, I
really love what Adam Silver is doing with the league, man,
because he listens. You know, he has an inclusion type
policy where he's trying to include guys in the conversation

(47:51):
and trying to make stuff better. Man, That's what I
really like about him. And just to be able to
create a bubble to give the world a chance to
watch who because you know, sports heels as we know,
and just got a chance to just you know, and
I know it was tough for the guys. Man. I
was just so proud of my guys because I know
it was tough for them to be able to play
in these unprecedented times. And man, I was just so proud, man.

(48:14):
And it was therapeutic for the world. Man. And just
to sit back and watch, you know, our fraternity, you
know what I'm saying, our brothers out there healing in
the world, man, and felt good. You know. Going into
this year, man, they've still been doing a lot of
great things to kind of keep the message going and
stand on top of you know, the social issue, the
COVID nineteen, you know, a wariness, just just everything. Man.
I'm just proud to be an NBA and I'm not

(48:35):
You couldn't have said that any better, you know. And
I can have my opinions on it, but I'm a
white guy, man, and I'm always gonna be a white guy,
and I say those things I say, I'm so proud
of the NBA. I'm so proud of I say everything
you say, but hearing you say it, it's different, and
I appreciate that. VONSI, what's one thing you'd like these

(48:55):
listeners to know about what it's like to be under
the microscope of the media and everything isn't always what
it seems when it's written in black and white. What
would you like people to know? I mean exactly what
you said. Man, don't believe everything what you hear or read.
You know, trust your own information because you know, I
know for guys like myself and all the guys who

(49:16):
kind of went through the gossip and stuff, it's tough
to be recover when people think that you're just such
a bad, negative person, you know what I'm saying. At
least just try to try to give a person a chance,
get to know them before you you know what I'm saying,
make your total decision, because I know myself, I lost
so many opportunities and jobs and just situations because people

(49:36):
were scared to touch me. So before you you know,
like ostracize a person and just kill their character, just
think about their livelihood, think about their families, and just
think about their futures before you really just put that
on the man, because a lot of people can recover.
And you know, I've been blessed to have friends and
in situations that help me, you know, gather situations. But

(49:57):
everybody don't have these opportunities. So just think before you hate.
You're a wise man, what's going on in your life today,
how you're enjoying creating your own podcast with Rashid while
it's called Let's Get Technical, Oh beautiful, name what you
up to? Man? We're doing that. Man. We started Let's
Get Technical about a year ago. You know, it's funny,
you know, we all started this podcast Lane during the

(50:18):
COVID crisis when everything shut down, so we were just
trying to figure out what's next. And we hadn't thought
about doing it a couple of years ago. And and
like we talked about, Rashid Rashi is anti media, so
about two years ago, I was like, yo, she let's
do it. Let's do it. He was like, nah, Bonds,
I'm straight, I'm cool on this media bullshit. So I'm like,
all right, brou it's cool. So no, Stephen Jackson. That's
my brother. So he had been telling me that his

(50:40):
plan on how he was gonna, you know, just get
on every media outlet and just start being him and
let the world know who he is and stop hiding.
Like I'm not hiding who I am no more. So
he told me he was gonna do it, and I
was like, Bro, the world ain't ready for that. He
was like, man, not for real. Because I was like, man,
they're gonna He's like, Bro, they're gonna hear it. They're
gonna learn us because he was. He kept saying us
a lot more people out there like us Bonds than
it is like those goody two shoes people that they

(51:01):
portray on TV. And he said that to me out
to set back and thought about it, and I was like, man,
you're right. So he was like, man, pull up on us.
In New York, we're filming all the smoke. Just come
see how we do it. So I pull it up
on them and I just watched them and Rex, you know,
we're so used to making a physical buck. I'm watching
my brothers talk coming to the other room, smoke talk,

(51:22):
going the other room, smoke talk, and they was like,
we're done working it's a rap. And I said that's
work and they was like, yeah, that's what we're doing now.
So I left there. I called Rashid. I said, listen,
brou If you don't listen nothing else, I say, we
got to start a podcast right now. And I don't
know if if the lines and all the guys were
just looking down on me, and he was like, you know, where, Brouh,

(51:43):
let's do it. Set it up. I'm gonna do it.
So I just like, oh my goodness. So you know,
I got on the horn and I set it up
and we filmed about forty episodes, man, just kind of
we didn't want to have no sponsorship. We just wanted
to make sure we loved it. And we just started
calling our friends and just start doing interviews and just
you know, just getting season and just send it to
something we can do. And you know, it's been about

(52:03):
a month since we filmed our last show, but we
just partnered with Baller's Life to get on a big
platform now, man, So we're Baller's Life now. Man. They
have a you know, eighteen to twenty million subscribers that
that's with them daily, man, And we're just excited about
the opportunity, and we're just ready to step on that platform.
But our thing we want to do is we're gonna
still do our pop, but we really want to just
touch the youth. You know, me and Rashid, we're both

(52:24):
high school of basketball coaches and we're you know, we're
community guys, and we just got a really a mindset
of each one teach one mindset, and we just really
just want to tap into these kids, you know, on
the court and off the court, and just let them know,
you know, that we're here for them and just they
can be we can be some of the guys that
can talk to when they go through these different situations
that none of their friends and nobody you know, in
their family maybe can give them advice on Bondsy Gowan, Well,

(52:49):
I got it right there. Gowan, Well, I gotta thank
you for joining me today bonds to and for being
so honest. Really, You've got so many fans around the world,
I'm for sure one of them. Been amazing to take
this journey down memory lane with you, you you know, and
somebody I you know, we didn't share a locker room.
I played against you for a short while and I
watched your career and you just had an unbelievable career.

(53:11):
I appreciate you giving us the real and raw look
at what life was like under the spotlight in the NBA,
when you know you were really trying to find yourself.
If you ever need anything, Bro, I'm here for you,
looking forward to seeing the rest of your success and
whatever you do next, man, And I really appreciate you
saying that. Man, thank you for having me on. Anything
you ever need from us, Man, and we definitely got

(53:32):
to have you on our pod Man. We would love.
It'll be an honor to have you on the pop Man,
and come spiss some game because we got some questions
we want to ask you that we want to get
technical about ourselves. So you know, I appreciate it. Man,
blessing us to you and the fam. Make sure you
tell that son of yours Man, I said, what's up? Man,
that's my boy. I will, I will, and I'll come
on your show any any anytime. You and Rashid shoot,

(53:52):
come on, let's go. Yes, So let's go with Thanks
by runs with the law. Charge is shut, Lee send
the tenus emball as a charge is the celebrity gank
forms charges. We came along Way from Living Law That's Charges.
Severin a run ins with the law, charge supply send
the tenus emball as a charge is the celebrity gank

(54:14):
forms charge we Came Along Way from Living Law. That's Charge.
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