April 19, 2025 • 22 mins
Our guest is Dr. Camilla Westenberg. Dr. Westenberg has been a decades-long advocate for equity for both women and marginalized communities. She is a Charter member of the NMAAHC. Additionally, she currently serves as the VP for Political Action of the Maricopa County Branch of the NAACP, she is a distinguished leader in the Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Phoenix Chapter. Additionally, she is a Life Member of the National Council of Negro Women.
In the second half of the show, we talk about Harvard University’s defiant response to Trump’s demands, the purpose of institutions of higher learning, and what other organizations and entities could learn from their stance.
Support the show: https://www.patreon.com/civiccipher?utm_source=search
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host, Rams'.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ja he is Ramsey's Jaw.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am q ward.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yes you are, and we appreciate it. We are joined
by our teacher, doctor Camilla Westenberg. If you don't know,
she has been a decade long advocate for equality, both
for women and marginalized communities. She is a charter member
of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Additionally,
she currently serves as the VP for Political Action of
the Maricopa County Branch of the NAACP. She is a
(00:33):
distinguished leader in the Alpha Cappa alph Sorority Phoenix Chapter.
She is a member of the Phoenix Chapter of the Lynx.
She is also a member of the Top Ladies of
Distinction Phoenix Chapter, currently holding the position of Historian. Additionally,
she is a life member of the National Council of
Negro Women. She is here as herself, not any of
the nonpartisan institutions that she is a part of, but
(00:54):
she is indeed our teacher and she is going to
help us make heads or tails of this next part
of the show. But before we get there is time
to be aba become a better ally. And what we
want you to do this week in terms of becoming
a better ally.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Is to donate.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Donate to the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
I'm going to share something from their website for those
that don't know in m AAHC, that's National Museum of
African American History and Culture in AHC dot SI or
Smithsonian Institution dot edu. I know that's a lot, but
(01:32):
of course you can google them as well. All right.
This is from their website. In their words, help us
tell the full African American story. Join as a member
of the National Museum of African American History and Culture
to help elevate the African American experience to its rightful
place at the center of our nation's history and culture.
Please be generous and welcome to the museum family. Visit
(01:54):
the gift membership page to give the gift of membership
to someone special again that is in m.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
A HC dot SI dot ed.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
U, and then they have a thank you VENNMA share.
It says thanks to these steadfast.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Supporters of UH Sorry the stead Thanks to the steadfast
support of our loyal members and donors, we are expanding
and sharing digital resources with the world, impacting millions with
unique stories from the collection, online exhibitions, and diverse experiences
in American history all through the African American lens.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Again, I want to restate that a huge part of.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What funds these museums is people donating, and it is
possible for us to sustain our institutions and run out
the clock on the opposition there. And so if you
are in a position, there is a way to do it.
There is a path forward. And you know, everyone has
to pick their battle. This might be the one that
(02:57):
might resonate with you.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
It doesn't have to be large, not at all.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Now, I want to shift gears just a bit, but
I want to shift to a gear that you kind
of touched on already, Doctor Westernberg. I'm going to share
something here. It's from CNN. The Trump administration announced Monday
that it would freeze two point two billion dollars in
multi year grants and sixty million dollars in multi year
(03:25):
contract value at Harvard University after the school said it
would not follow policy demands from the administration. Earlier Monday,
Harvard University said it would reject the Trump administration's demands
for policy changes at the school in response to the
funding freeze. The university referred CNN to its earlier statement
that it would not comply with the administration's demands, specifically
(03:49):
focusing on the following quote. For the government to retreat
from these partnerships now risks not only the health and
well being of millions of individuals, but also the economic
security and vitality of our nation. The university received a
letter from a federal task force last week outlining additional
policy demands that will quote maintain Harvard's financial relationship with
(04:11):
the federal government.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
We have informed the administration through our legal council, that
we will not accept their proposed agreement, Harvard President Alan M.
Garber said in a statement. Goes on to say, the
university will not surrender its independence or its constitutional rights. Okay, So,
at a time when authoritarianism looms, democracy is in jeopardy.
(04:50):
The president is moving in a manner consistent with a dictator.
Resistance is to be commended, it is to be applauded.
Q and I had a conversation earlier in the week
(05:10):
on the Black Information.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Network where we discussed.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
President Barack Obama's response to Harvard, basically saying, bring it
to Donald Trump. And I don't want to talk too
much here because I would definitely like to get your
thoughts here. But you mentioned something in the first part
of the show where you said that oftentimes the only
(05:38):
time people will hear about certain histories is in an
academic institution because some people don't make it to museums even.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And Harvard.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'm not sure where we landed, Q, but we did
determine that Harvard was a among the top names that
a person would think of when you think of higher education.
And so for them to take this stance to reject,
you know, the plight of this administration to erase history
(06:17):
again is something to be commended. And I know you
understand the importance of this move. Your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, I think a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Of it has to do with the financial equation and
all of the instances.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Sure, it's just like the African.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
American Museum, if the bulk of it is being funded,
if it's a private entity being funded by people of
the public, and a small segment of the funding comes
from the government, your better position to survive and say no,
we're going to go along with the omission. And and
(07:01):
that is the way Harvard is positioned. To my understanding,
that it is wealthy as a result of donors who
believe in the enterprise of intellectual thought and research. And consequently,
(07:27):
what funding may be taken away from the institution may
hurt it in some way, but will not destroy it.
For in some instances that's what has been occurring. Just
if that industry is going to survive and those federal
(07:50):
funds are taken away, then it literally destroys that enterprise,
if you will. And so to think that Harvard has
some principled individuals on its board and its president, it's
alumni and it's students that will allow him it to
(08:16):
take that stance and say, no, we are supposed to
be the premier institution of this country and the world,
and we are going to stand on that and not
allow you to dilute who we are. And I applaud
them for the position that they are taking. It's interesting,
(08:41):
and again I have to say from a nonpartisan perspective, though,
but if you look at the people who are in
charge right now a number of them went to Ivy
League institutions. But there is something.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I don't want.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
What is that there's not jealousy or an insecurity, or
there isn't the capacity to stand up in your own
right being who you are next to someone else in
their own right, being who they are, Okay, and stand
(09:22):
tall each in your own right. What has to happen
is they have to come and knock you down or
take away. And in my mind, that's a weakness, although
it's viewed as a strength other than money, and money
(09:42):
isn't everything you said a minute ago earlier in the show.
You know, none of us are going to be on
this earth indefinitely. We're all going to be turned to dust. Dust,
Thou art to dust, return it. That's going to happen
to everyone. And what you have achieved is not.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You're not gonna be able to take it with you.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
And my hope is that who you are, who you
are is brought to the forefront and you know what
your legacy was. My sensibility tells me if you stand
and say I'm going to represent a country that believes
(10:35):
in freedom of speech, and you take the oath, but
you don't put your hand on the Bible.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
There's something to be said for that.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Sure, there is really something you are not. There are
so many things taking place right now that are hurtful,
but one person not to understand the hurt and the
damage that you are doing because of who you are.
(11:14):
To take a student off of a campus.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And take them.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Out of this country and not have that person go
through any kind of process to determine whether you are
deserving to stay here to go? How can that be right?
And how can you say you are the epitome of
what you should be when you are exhibiting that kind
(11:44):
of behavior. That's the reality of it. There is a
lot of falsehood taking place, and then on top of that,
when it's brought to your attention, there is retribution. Are
your retalian? I have to be careful. I'm seventy seven,
(12:06):
but I want to live longer. Why come at me
because of what I say? Why take me out? There
are people that are being harmed. Part of the reason
that people are aligning themselves with some of the executive
orders is because of finances, because of fear. And then
(12:30):
there are others who want to move into this world
of finances. I want to have I want to be rich.
I want to think I'm more than and it's it is,
in my estimation, the lowest of law of processes in humanity,
and it is very sad for the United States of America.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Now, now, que I remember that, I don't remember the
exact number, but we were talking about this, and you
said that Harvard was indeed sitting on like I forget
the name of the fund, whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
You have about a fifty billion dollar endowment.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Okay, okay, So so Harvard has enough to weather a storm, right,
But there was another point that I want to I
don't know if we had this in private conversation or
we were talking on an episode or something like that,
but you made another point.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Q.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
About a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Capitalistic like businesses that pledged to start listening to black people,
start hiring black people in numbers that reflect the population
and reflect the skill set of human beings available to them,
that committed to promoting black people and listening to black women,
(14:08):
and you know, bringing diverse perspectives into you know, conversations
that helped shape the future of these companies, et cetera.
Those companies were perhaps well positioned to weather a storm
in the same way that we're seeing Harvard doing it.
And you know, your reaction to the stark difference there
(14:32):
is I think worth repeating here, So give me your
thoughts on those companies now that we see what's possible
with Harvard.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The more interesting thing, more than even Harvard having this
endowment that gives them some financial and fiscal protection, is
that they had to steal be okay with losing federal funding.
As doctor Westernberg pointed out, a lot of these private
(15:03):
corporations do not require federal funding to thrive. M that's good.
So them kissing the ring or bending the knee.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
ORSU company makes pressure out of the.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Administration, are more in line with them doing what they
want to do and feeling some type of external pressure fiscally.
Because a lot of these companies have lost billions of
dollars in revenue, I think they forgot the two trillion
dollars worth of buying power from our community alone and
other marginalized communities who have stood in solidarity with us,
(15:39):
you know, through this bit of a storm that we're
going through, and it was really discouraging and kind of
embarrassing that so many very very successful corporations and very,
very wealthy people who had the autonomy to not have
to just give in to these ideas. Not only did
they give in, but again it was with no pressure.
(15:59):
They voluntarily align themselves with this administration and with its mission.
And that was scary, that was discouraging, it was infuriating.
You know, we have conversations with people who have decidedly
different political opinions and views than we do, but I
(16:21):
try to always bring our conversations to a level of
just basic humanity. I told a story on the show
Once upon a Time, and I'm paraphrasing because I don't
remember it in specific detail, but it was about a
college professor who had a class and most of the
students didn't pass an exam. It was a final, and
(16:42):
it had a very heavy weight on their grades. This
professor realized that some of the students would not pass,
therefore would not graduate if they didn't pass this final,
so he made a deal with the class. If everybody
votes in unison, everyone pass is the final. And this
(17:04):
story about humanity has a very partisan lens on it.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
At the end, Okay, I think I know where you're going.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
If every student in the class says yes, everyone passes
the exam, and today's America that would be the Democratic Party.
We don't want anyone to fail, So let's create a
system where everyone can be successful. Let's call it DEI
(17:34):
in this conversation, where everyone has access to success. Unfortunately,
every student in that class did not pass the final
because they did not vote in unison. Because like the GOP,
the Republican Party, the right wing, there were students in
(17:56):
that class who also didn't not pass on their own,
but did not want anyone that they deemed unworthy or
undeserving of passing to pass either. So there are students
who didn't pass on their own, who didn't even vote
for themselves to pass because they didn't want a classmate
(18:20):
who they thought might not deserve it to pass either.
And that is just a lesson on humanity. There are
those of us who will harm ourselves just to ensure
that other people don't get a leg up, and there
are those of us that would sacrifice the work that
we did to assure that everyone has a chance. These
(18:45):
are not political differences in views and values. These are
humanitarian differences in views and values. So this is why
those who marched, who stormed, and who adorned their heads
with that red cap. I have a very very hard
time having anything in common with you, because you've made
(19:07):
a humanitarian decision that goes against the safety, the well being,
the potential for a healthy, abundant life. You've gone out
of your way to make sure that there are people
who don't have access to that for no other reason
(19:28):
than in most cases hate, and that is a very
very difficult thing to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, I think that the gravity of that story is worth,
you know, some some reflection, because, yeah, you knows, there's
always this conversation about people voting against their own interests,
but often enough I find that it's true, a especially
(20:01):
true among poorer white folks in this country, in the South,
especially where they.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
The aperture that they.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Choose to lean into the Republican Party is through religion,
and that's how they align and then they excuse everything else.
But ultimately, yeah, a lot of the policies they are
(20:33):
inherent in the party that.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
They vote for.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Don't really create opportunities for them to advance their standing.
But what they do is they make it harder for
people that don't look like them, and that's enough, and
that feels crazy but in order to have these type
of conversations that we're having, and they have conversations across
(20:58):
the aisle, you need a space to have discourse, to
have a debate, to find out which ideas are going
to survive, which ideas are worthwhile. And you know, as
doctor Westernberg pointed out, the one place where that is.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Celebrated discourse and the exchange of ideas.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Is in the institutions of higher learning exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And so you know, I guess we'll leave it there.
Any final thoughts, Doctor Westburn.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I have to remain hopeful, Okay, I have to remain
hopeful for you all, for my daughter, for my granddaughter,
for myself, but senior citizens, for all of us, because
we are all really in a state of uncertainty right now. Yeah,
(21:53):
we are navigating as we go through our day, unsure
of what's going to happen. We don't know if we
are going to be labeled a citizen food serious. You know,
at any point you walk out and there they are
so apprehending you and taking you off and not giving
(22:19):
you the opportunity to expound on who you are and
to provide the necessary documents to prove that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
We've seen it we've seen, so that's frightening. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, like you said, we have to remain hopeful and
we will remain hopeful right here on Civic Cipher. So
we'll leave it right there. Thank you as always, Doctor Westernberg,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Coming on to the show.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Please lock in with us on all social media. You
can find us at Civic Cipher. You can find me
on all platforms at Rams's.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Jah I am q Warred on all social media as well.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And until next week, y'all be good to each other. Peace,
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am your host, Rams'.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Ja he is Ramsey's Jaw.
Speaker 3 (00:09):
I am q ward.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
You are tuned into Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yes you are, and we appreciate it. We are joined
by our teacher, doctor Camilla Westenberg. If you don't know,
she has been a decade long advocate for equality, both
for women and marginalized communities. She is a charter member
of the National Museum of African American History and Culture. Additionally,
she currently serves as the VP for Political Action of
the Maricopa County Branch of the NAACP. She is a
(00:33):
distinguished leader in the Alpha Cappa alph Sorority Phoenix Chapter.
She is a member of the Phoenix Chapter of the Lynx.
She is also a member of the Top Ladies of
Distinction Phoenix Chapter, currently holding the position of Historian. Additionally,
she is a life member of the National Council of
Negro Women. She is here as herself, not any of
the nonpartisan institutions that she is a part of, but
(00:54):
she is indeed our teacher and she is going to
help us make heads or tails of this next part
of the show. But before we get there is time
to be aba become a better ally. And what we
want you to do this week in terms of becoming
a better ally.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Is to donate.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Donate to the National Museum of African American History and Culture.
I'm going to share something from their website for those
that don't know in m AAHC, that's National Museum of
African American History and Culture in AHC dot SI or
Smithsonian Institution dot edu. I know that's a lot, but
(01:32):
of course you can google them as well. All right.
This is from their website. In their words, help us
tell the full African American story. Join as a member
of the National Museum of African American History and Culture
to help elevate the African American experience to its rightful
place at the center of our nation's history and culture.
Please be generous and welcome to the museum family. Visit
(01:54):
the gift membership page to give the gift of membership
to someone special again that is in m.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
A HC dot SI dot ed.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
U, and then they have a thank you VENNMA share.
It says thanks to these steadfast.
Speaker 4 (02:07):
Supporters of UH Sorry the stead Thanks to the steadfast
support of our loyal members and donors, we are expanding
and sharing digital resources with the world, impacting millions with
unique stories from the collection, online exhibitions, and diverse experiences
in American history all through the African American lens.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Again, I want to restate that a huge part of.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
What funds these museums is people donating, and it is
possible for us to sustain our institutions and run out
the clock on the opposition there. And so if you
are in a position, there is a way to do it.
There is a path forward. And you know, everyone has
to pick their battle. This might be the one that
(02:57):
might resonate with you.
Speaker 5 (02:58):
It doesn't have to be large, not at all.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
All Right.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Now, I want to shift gears just a bit, but
I want to shift to a gear that you kind
of touched on already, Doctor Westernberg. I'm going to share
something here. It's from CNN. The Trump administration announced Monday
that it would freeze two point two billion dollars in
multi year grants and sixty million dollars in multi year
(03:25):
contract value at Harvard University after the school said it
would not follow policy demands from the administration. Earlier Monday,
Harvard University said it would reject the Trump administration's demands
for policy changes at the school in response to the
funding freeze. The university referred CNN to its earlier statement
that it would not comply with the administration's demands, specifically
(03:49):
focusing on the following quote. For the government to retreat
from these partnerships now risks not only the health and
well being of millions of individuals, but also the economic
security and vitality of our nation. The university received a
letter from a federal task force last week outlining additional
policy demands that will quote maintain Harvard's financial relationship with
(04:11):
the federal government.
Speaker 3 (04:13):
Quote.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
We have informed the administration through our legal council, that
we will not accept their proposed agreement, Harvard President Alan M.
Garber said in a statement. Goes on to say, the
university will not surrender its independence or its constitutional rights. Okay, So,
at a time when authoritarianism looms, democracy is in jeopardy.
(04:50):
The president is moving in a manner consistent with a dictator.
Resistance is to be commended, it is to be applauded.
Q and I had a conversation earlier in the week
(05:10):
on the Black Information.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Network where we discussed.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
President Barack Obama's response to Harvard, basically saying, bring it
to Donald Trump. And I don't want to talk too
much here because I would definitely like to get your
thoughts here. But you mentioned something in the first part
of the show where you said that oftentimes the only
(05:38):
time people will hear about certain histories is in an
academic institution because some people don't make it to museums even.
Speaker 3 (05:50):
And Harvard.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
I'm not sure where we landed, Q, but we did
determine that Harvard was a among the top names that
a person would think of when you think of higher education.
And so for them to take this stance to reject,
you know, the plight of this administration to erase history
(06:17):
again is something to be commended. And I know you
understand the importance of this move. Your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Well, I think a lot.
Speaker 5 (06:26):
Of it has to do with the financial equation and
all of the instances.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Sure, it's just like the African.
Speaker 5 (06:36):
American Museum, if the bulk of it is being funded,
if it's a private entity being funded by people of
the public, and a small segment of the funding comes
from the government, your better position to survive and say no,
we're going to go along with the omission. And and
(07:01):
that is the way Harvard is positioned. To my understanding,
that it is wealthy as a result of donors who
believe in the enterprise of intellectual thought and research. And consequently,
(07:27):
what funding may be taken away from the institution may
hurt it in some way, but will not destroy it.
For in some instances that's what has been occurring. Just
if that industry is going to survive and those federal
(07:50):
funds are taken away, then it literally destroys that enterprise,
if you will. And so to think that Harvard has
some principled individuals on its board and its president, it's
alumni and it's students that will allow him it to
(08:16):
take that stance and say, no, we are supposed to
be the premier institution of this country and the world,
and we are going to stand on that and not
allow you to dilute who we are. And I applaud
them for the position that they are taking. It's interesting,
(08:41):
and again I have to say from a nonpartisan perspective, though,
but if you look at the people who are in
charge right now a number of them went to Ivy
League institutions. But there is something.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
I don't want.
Speaker 5 (09:01):
What is that there's not jealousy or an insecurity, or
there isn't the capacity to stand up in your own
right being who you are next to someone else in
their own right, being who they are, Okay, and stand
(09:22):
tall each in your own right. What has to happen
is they have to come and knock you down or
take away. And in my mind, that's a weakness, although
it's viewed as a strength other than money, and money
(09:42):
isn't everything you said a minute ago earlier in the show.
You know, none of us are going to be on
this earth indefinitely. We're all going to be turned to dust. Dust,
Thou art to dust, return it. That's going to happen
to everyone. And what you have achieved is not.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
You're not gonna be able to take it with you.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
And my hope is that who you are, who you
are is brought to the forefront and you know what
your legacy was. My sensibility tells me if you stand
and say I'm going to represent a country that believes
(10:35):
in freedom of speech, and you take the oath, but
you don't put your hand on the Bible.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
There's something to be said for that.
Speaker 5 (10:53):
Sure, there is really something you are not. There are
so many things taking place right now that are hurtful,
but one person not to understand the hurt and the
damage that you are doing because of who you are.
(11:14):
To take a student off of a campus.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
And take them.
Speaker 5 (11:19):
Out of this country and not have that person go
through any kind of process to determine whether you are
deserving to stay here to go? How can that be right?
And how can you say you are the epitome of
what you should be when you are exhibiting that kind
(11:44):
of behavior. That's the reality of it. There is a
lot of falsehood taking place, and then on top of that,
when it's brought to your attention, there is retribution. Are
your retalian? I have to be careful. I'm seventy seven,
(12:06):
but I want to live longer. Why come at me
because of what I say? Why take me out? There
are people that are being harmed. Part of the reason
that people are aligning themselves with some of the executive
orders is because of finances, because of fear. And then
(12:30):
there are others who want to move into this world
of finances. I want to have I want to be rich.
I want to think I'm more than and it's it is,
in my estimation, the lowest of law of processes in humanity,
and it is very sad for the United States of America.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Now, now, que I remember that, I don't remember the
exact number, but we were talking about this, and you
said that Harvard was indeed sitting on like I forget
the name of the fund, whatever it was.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
You have about a fifty billion dollar endowment.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Okay, okay, So so Harvard has enough to weather a storm, right,
But there was another point that I want to I
don't know if we had this in private conversation or
we were talking on an episode or something like that,
but you made another point.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Q.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
About a lot of the.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Capitalistic like businesses that pledged to start listening to black people,
start hiring black people in numbers that reflect the population
and reflect the skill set of human beings available to them,
that committed to promoting black people and listening to black women,
(14:08):
and you know, bringing diverse perspectives into you know, conversations
that helped shape the future of these companies, et cetera.
Those companies were perhaps well positioned to weather a storm
in the same way that we're seeing Harvard doing it.
And you know, your reaction to the stark difference there
(14:32):
is I think worth repeating here, So give me your
thoughts on those companies now that we see what's possible
with Harvard.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The more interesting thing, more than even Harvard having this
endowment that gives them some financial and fiscal protection, is
that they had to steal be okay with losing federal funding.
As doctor Westernberg pointed out, a lot of these private
(15:03):
corporations do not require federal funding to thrive. M that's good.
So them kissing the ring or bending the knee.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
ORSU company makes pressure out of the.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Administration, are more in line with them doing what they
want to do and feeling some type of external pressure fiscally.
Because a lot of these companies have lost billions of
dollars in revenue, I think they forgot the two trillion
dollars worth of buying power from our community alone and
other marginalized communities who have stood in solidarity with us,
(15:39):
you know, through this bit of a storm that we're
going through, and it was really discouraging and kind of
embarrassing that so many very very successful corporations and very,
very wealthy people who had the autonomy to not have
to just give in to these ideas. Not only did
they give in, but again it was with no pressure.
(15:59):
They voluntarily align themselves with this administration and with its mission.
And that was scary, that was discouraging, it was infuriating.
You know, we have conversations with people who have decidedly
different political opinions and views than we do, but I
(16:21):
try to always bring our conversations to a level of
just basic humanity. I told a story on the show
Once upon a Time, and I'm paraphrasing because I don't
remember it in specific detail, but it was about a
college professor who had a class and most of the
students didn't pass an exam. It was a final, and
(16:42):
it had a very heavy weight on their grades. This
professor realized that some of the students would not pass,
therefore would not graduate if they didn't pass this final,
so he made a deal with the class. If everybody
votes in unison, everyone pass is the final. And this
(17:04):
story about humanity has a very partisan lens on it.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
At the end, Okay, I think I know where you're going.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
If every student in the class says yes, everyone passes
the exam, and today's America that would be the Democratic Party.
We don't want anyone to fail, So let's create a
system where everyone can be successful. Let's call it DEI
(17:34):
in this conversation, where everyone has access to success. Unfortunately,
every student in that class did not pass the final
because they did not vote in unison. Because like the GOP,
the Republican Party, the right wing, there were students in
(17:56):
that class who also didn't not pass on their own,
but did not want anyone that they deemed unworthy or
undeserving of passing to pass either. So there are students
who didn't pass on their own, who didn't even vote
for themselves to pass because they didn't want a classmate
(18:20):
who they thought might not deserve it to pass either.
And that is just a lesson on humanity. There are
those of us who will harm ourselves just to ensure
that other people don't get a leg up, and there
are those of us that would sacrifice the work that
we did to assure that everyone has a chance. These
(18:45):
are not political differences in views and values. These are
humanitarian differences in views and values. So this is why
those who marched, who stormed, and who adorned their heads
with that red cap. I have a very very hard
time having anything in common with you, because you've made
(19:07):
a humanitarian decision that goes against the safety, the well being,
the potential for a healthy, abundant life. You've gone out
of your way to make sure that there are people
who don't have access to that for no other reason
(19:28):
than in most cases hate, and that is a very
very difficult thing to reconcile.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, I think that the gravity of that story is worth,
you know, some some reflection, because, yeah, you knows, there's
always this conversation about people voting against their own interests,
but often enough I find that it's true, a especially
(20:01):
true among poorer white folks in this country, in the South,
especially where they.
Speaker 3 (20:08):
The aperture that they.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Choose to lean into the Republican Party is through religion,
and that's how they align and then they excuse everything else.
But ultimately, yeah, a lot of the policies they are
(20:33):
inherent in the party that.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
They vote for.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Don't really create opportunities for them to advance their standing.
But what they do is they make it harder for
people that don't look like them, and that's enough, and
that feels crazy but in order to have these type
of conversations that we're having, and they have conversations across
(20:58):
the aisle, you need a space to have discourse, to
have a debate, to find out which ideas are going
to survive, which ideas are worthwhile. And you know, as
doctor Westernberg pointed out, the one place where that is.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Celebrated discourse and the exchange of ideas.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Is in the institutions of higher learning exactly.
Speaker 3 (21:24):
And so you know, I guess we'll leave it there.
Any final thoughts, Doctor Westburn.
Speaker 5 (21:33):
I have to remain hopeful, Okay, I have to remain
hopeful for you all, for my daughter, for my granddaughter,
for myself, but senior citizens, for all of us, because
we are all really in a state of uncertainty right now. Yeah,
(21:53):
we are navigating as we go through our day, unsure
of what's going to happen. We don't know if we
are going to be labeled a citizen food serious. You know,
at any point you walk out and there they are
so apprehending you and taking you off and not giving
(22:19):
you the opportunity to expound on who you are and
to provide the necessary documents to prove that.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
We've seen it we've seen, so that's frightening. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Well, like you said, we have to remain hopeful and
we will remain hopeful right here on Civic Cipher. So
we'll leave it right there. Thank you as always, Doctor Westernberg,
thank you.
Speaker 3 (22:42):
Coming on to the show.
Speaker 5 (22:43):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
Please lock in with us on all social media. You
can find us at Civic Cipher. You can find me
on all platforms at Rams's.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Jah I am q Warred on all social media as well.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
And until next week, y'all be good to each other. Peace,
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