April 5, 2025 • 22 mins
Our guest is civil rights attorney Portia Allen-Kyle – the managing director of the nation’s largest online racial justice organization, Color of Change. As a national online force driven by 7 million members, they move decision-makers in corporations and government to create a more human and less hostile world for Black people in America.
In the second half of the show, we discuss the plight of civil rights organizations under Trump, as well as what individuals can do to support (or boycott) initiatives they feel align with their interests as citizens.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Army host Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
He is Rams's Jaw I am q Ward. You are
tuned in to Civic SciTE, Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You are, and we appreciate you sticking around because we
are having a fantastic conversation with the one the only
civil rights attorney, Portia Allen Kyle, the managing director of
Color of Change for again, for those who are unfamiliar
to the Color of Changes, the nation's largest online racial
justice organization. They help people respond effectively to injustice in
the world, and as a national online force driven by
seven million members, they move decision makers and corporations and
(00:34):
government to create a more human and less hostile world
for black people in America. We're having a conversation about
the new administration and how that affects social justice organizations
and the plights of those organizations, hers in particular. And
a quick note, I want to make sure that I
say that our Ebony Excellence segment earlier was erroneously credited
(00:57):
to Forbes. It actually comes from Essence magazine, but right now,
we're going to get to what comes from Forbes magazine.
This is our time to show you how to be
ABA become a better Allied by BLA NQ take it Away.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
A twenty one year old man in New York has
been cured of sickle cell anemia following treatment with a
pioneering gene therapy. According to his doctors, New York residents,
Sebastian Bozil was treated with a pioneering new gene therapy
approach called Lithgenia, developed by biotech company Bluebird Bio. Mister
(01:31):
Bozil received the treatment on December seventeenth, twenty twenty four,
and has not had any symptom of sickle cell anemia since,
leading his doctors to believe that the treatment has likely
cured the disease. Scle cell anemia is a serious inherited
disorder of red blood cells, which mostly affects black and
Hispanic people. There are over one hundred thousand people with
(01:51):
the disorder in the US, and the condition causes a
range of symptoms, including blood clots and strokes, and a
resultant reduction and lifespan of twenty years on average. Is
caused by inheriting defective copies of a hemoglobin gene, causing hemoglobin,
which carries oxygen in red blood cells, to be subfunctional.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The defect causes red.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Blood cells and effective people to be sickle or crescent
shaped instead of disshaped as normal, limiting the cell's ability
to carry oxygen. Sickle red blood cells are also more
prone to clump together and cause blockages to blood vessels,
causing severe pain and tissue damage. Previously, people with sickle
cellinemia have been mostly treated with therapies which can control
(02:32):
but not cure the disease. Some people have been cured
by giving them bone marew transplants from external donors, normally
a close relative without sickle cell anemia, but the procedure
does not always work comes with a host of side
effects and a risk of dying according to the Natural
According to the National Institute of Health, about one in
twenty children under sixteen receiving bone marrow transplants per sycle
(02:55):
cellinemia have died, and one of ten of people sixteen
years or older.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You think of certain things as kind of like quintessentially American.
You know, things that people will do no matter what
because they are American people things that people will get
no matter what because they are American. And to see
this administration villainize the Department of Education as though it's
(03:21):
somehow corrupt, somehow wasteful, you know whatever, without substantiating any
of those claims, and then you know, just with the
wave of a pen, dismantled this. This it's now a
legacy department. You know, you mentioned Brown versus Board of Education,
which was decades ago. So this is now fundamentally who
(03:42):
we are as a nation, as a superpower on the
global stage. It's it's it's it's it's crazy how there's
a surprising calm associated with it, and in terms of
the administration, how they handle the optics around it, Like
(04:03):
the presidents signed that with black children around him, so
as to say this is not to you know, disproportionately
affect back black children. This is going to be a
benefit to all right, And so they got these props
that they use to you know, it's such a crazy,
uh time to live in. And I know I can't
state that enough, but we're stuck here, right and I
(04:27):
know that can be very frustrating for people, And I
don't want to pretend like it's not frustrating for us
who are kind of the voices and are kind of
leading movements here and there. But you know, for people
that don't have a microphone and an audience like you
and I and you have today that still feel like
(04:50):
doing nothing is insufficient, talk to us about some ways
that maybe individuals can resis the forces of this administration,
you know. And I don't want to state your brief here,
but I do want to mention that, you know, we
(05:12):
talked about the boycotts, and that's obviously one one way
that we can go about doing it. But Target has
and I don't know if you've heard about this, but
Target is pushed back on that, saying, well, the black
products don't sell, and the people that we've hired or
that we've kind of put on the store shelves have
only made products that appeal to black people, and so
(05:33):
the products don't move as quickly, and so they need
like more in the way development. That's something to which
I pushed back and said, you know, you know, if
you can lose money on a Black Friday with loss
leaders to get more people in the store, then there's
a business case that you can make for that. And
on top of that if you have black products on
(05:57):
the shelves and you're committed to working with these these
creators and these black entrepreneurs to develop the businesses alongside
this island target, then you know you can commit the
resources and the business strategies and so forth to develop
the brands. You don't just give up after a couple
of years. In any event, that's just me kind of
leading you in the in the direction I didn't want
(06:17):
to do that. But again, the question is like ways
that individuals can you know, in your own house, when
you go to work, you come home, you take care
of your kids, you put them to sleep, you wake
up tomorrow, you got to fix the garage, and we
can what are those people what can they do to
maybe help all of us resist the forces of this administration?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You know those you said so many things. No, I'm sorry,
through my mind. Well, I mean, the.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
First thing that was running through my mind is I
really wish we could like get aligned to stop allowing
people to use our babies as props.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
But maybe that's separate conference.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
But the second thing that started running through my mind was,
you know how just not plausible, like just actually not
believable some of the arguments that these like you know,
corporations and folks are making and so like, even on
the on the attacks against diversity, equity and inclusion and
(07:12):
the administration's position that like these are illegal and you know,
reverse discrimination. Like if that were to be true, then
all of these companies across industries, with all of their
counsel in separate law firms, and all of these colleges
and all of these programs had to all come to
the same wrong conclusion about their legality of these programs
(07:36):
and about you know, what they do. And now, like
when you really break it down, what had to happen
to get some of these programs together.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The idea that they're like all just illegal and you know.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Running a foul of the law and discriminating against white
people is like actually kind of laughable as a like
as a premise. But to the question you actually asked,
not the question I wanted to answer.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like, well do both.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I mean, we're here.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
It's you know, there is so much people can do
on an individual basis, and I you know, really will
say it all matters because there there's levels of engagement.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right, Like there's really levels to this.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
And people organizing their family at Thanksgiving is just as
important as like showing up you know, in the in
the street for protests. Right like, we all have lanes
that we occupy.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
We all have we all have a role in those
lanes and a role that we could play very well.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Right Like, so if your your starting places, I'm new
to this trying to learn, then like the best thing
you can do is go be well informed because our
people are subject to misinformation. And if your family is
like my family, you know, we we got the text chats,
the WhatsApp chains. Some are still sending email from their
AOL you know accounts like and you know, trying to
(08:53):
figure out what's real what's not. Got an email from
my aunt about like our social security, you know, windfall
and this and that.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Like we're all.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Trying to figure out what's true when we're taking in
different information from all places, some of those places more
reputable than others. But like anybody that can, you know,
take the time and do the work. We all have
that cousin we call when we have a question about
you know, maybe money or something we have that you
know person we call when we have a question about
you know that we trust as a messenger, et cetera.
(09:21):
And if you're one of those persons, as many of
us are, on at least one issue, be the reputable
source and not you know, the source that fans the misinformation,
right like, they're the second.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Thing. We need institutions.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And I don't just say this, you know as Portie
who is you know, the interim executive director of Color
of Change. I say this as like someone who understands
very deeply in an eat from an ecosystem perspective, the
role that all of these various organizations play. And we
can't all play the same role, right Like, we need
someone who is more amenable to the end side who's
(10:00):
going to kind of do their thing that then allows
Color of Change from the outside to come in from
a different angle and go a little harder and push,
you know, a little further.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We need organizations that are you know, focused on uh,
you know, whipping together attorneys. We need folks who are
focused on the you know, media and narrative. We need
people that are going to take on those democracy and
voting fites, who are going to organize students who are
going to But all of those institutions need funding. And
(10:30):
resources and more importantly, they need engagement you know from folks,
and so for folks looking how to you know, do
something and stand up, become involved whatever that choice is
for you, find a find an organization and love it
like love it with your time, love it with your
resources if you can, love it with your energy and
your expertise, because we all need reinforcement and you know,
(10:54):
support from from the community in this moment if we're
going to weather the storm, because our institutions will be
under attack, and you know we've seen that in history,
we've already seen it to start today. The third thing
that I you know, really in addition to you know,
kind of being being the educating and being the source
(11:15):
of you know, good information to you know, becoming involved
with organizations, et cetera. When see something, say something is
like maybe a shorthand way to put it, but there
are oftentimes that we see injustice in any form. Right
like we're at work and somebody says something really messed
up and instead of saying, hey, that was wrong, in
(11:36):
the moment and calling it out will maybe give some private,
you know, some private consolation to you know, somebody who
was wronged or heard or discriminated, discriminated against, or aggrieved.
This is a moment and the hate that we're experiencing,
the like neo segregationist, the agenda that we're experiencing, thrives
in silence.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
We have to, you know, speak up.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
We have to push back on these ideas and have
to be really loud about it, because they will drown
out the ecosystem. There's just more there aren't folks at
the same There's no Twitter for like or ex for
justice at the moment. Right Blue Sky is trying to
be a thing. It does not have the reach of x.
(12:18):
It does not have the reach of Facebook. It does
not have the reach of you know, of Instagram or
Meta or Reddit or many of them. Yeah, like, the
infrastructure of hate is deep, and the infrastructure that props
up right wing agendas and propaganda is really really deep.
(12:39):
We need to you know, really figure out the ways
to counterbalance that. And part of that is even in
those spaces to continue to you know, rise up. Part
of it is making investments in a different set of
ecosystem and infrastructure that's going to get to our people
and find our people where they are.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I want to stay where we are for a second,
you spoke about kind of being the source for good information,
and in the spaces that we all work in, we
admittedly and knowing we have access to more accurate information
than most people. The problem I've been facing in my ecosystem,
and I've shared this with Ramses with increasing frustration by
(13:22):
the day, is that it seems that no one wants
to be properly informed. Everybody just wants to be right,
so they'll post something or blast something off and it'll
be wrong, and I'll go fact check and do the
research and bring them accurate information, and they just have
no interest in the information I'm bringing, even though it's
(13:42):
far more accurate and far more true. Using our tools
and our resources to kind of galvanize our communities around
good information, it seems that all of us have also
learned that there is wealth in writing, because people who
are seeking out information do still read. Ramses and I
(14:03):
are working on a book really about radical candorous allyship
with intention. Like you said, passive, you can't be a
passive ally anymore. You can't be a neutral ally anymore.
You can't just not be racist, you have to be
anti racist. So we're working on a project now to
that end. However, you are an author who I think
(14:27):
a lot more people should be following and should be
getting more information from. Can you talk to us a
little bit about advice to thrive by because we want
listeners to be able to tap in with that as well.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Oh that first, that's very kind, So thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
One of the lessons and takeaways that I've had across
like it really actually doesn't matter what role I've been in,
is that the bench is too small. There are not
enough of us who are not just where we are now,
we're you know, already somewhat outnumbered in this capacity, but
those who are coming up behind. We have not necessarily
(15:12):
invested the time, the resources, the energy to build up
that next generation to make sure that when it's you know,
time to step aside, it's time to step aside, right,
And I would love nothing more. You know, I'm not
as young as I used to be and not as
old as I hope to get right, but I fully
(15:32):
anticipate and want to be when it's my time to
step aside, to be outflanked by somebody coming up younger
who's like, hey, you're not pushing us bold enough, you're
not taking us far enough, we should be demanding more
raising the standard and really you know, towing the line
and so invice to thrive by, you know, was really
(15:53):
born from that desire on how to build up the bench,
and particularly for attorneys and for public interest attorneys specifically.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
You know, there isn't really a clear career path, you know,
for those who want to come into this and do
this type of work. And there certainly aren't, you know,
any aren't A lot of cheat codes are kind of
behind the scenes on like hey, this is you know,
kind of how it works. Here's how to engage in
some strategy to get you know, from from where we
are to where we're going, and wanting to provide some
(16:29):
of the advice that would otherwise require insider information backgrounds,
you know, just hidden things that people who you know
have been in space know, but if you don't have
access to spaces, or you're the first one from your
family or the first one you know from your social
(16:49):
network may just not know that.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Can help open doors. And like that that was the
impetus with the goal of you know, really perhaps trying
in a personal way to open more doors in a
more lasting and systemic way where one on one. Mentorship
is never was never going to get to scale as
much as I love it, and it's very fulfilling. But like,
(17:12):
we can't mentor ourselves out of systemic injustices, right, and
so then how do we pass information that allows people
to take advantage and allows people to engage and equips
them with the tools that hopefully makes their journey and
their pathway a little bit easier, Not you know, not
addicating duties of mentorship and sponsorship altogether, but wanting to
(17:34):
you know, make impact us a little bit more lasting.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Poorscha, I first want to say thank you for just
making time for us. These conversations are so much more
important than we realize. I think a lot of our constituents,
a lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues
are dealing with this combination of anger, frustration, and hopelessness.
And we turn out to be the voices that they trust.
(18:00):
And we know this because people walk up to us
and tell us, you know, we we are more necessary
now than we were a few months ago. And as
hard as it is to accept the gravity of that statement,
we've heard it enough times to know that it's true.
So someone like yourself making time to talk to us
and just inspire us. Because even we have those days
(18:23):
where we're looking around like the sky is falling and
we have no idea what to do next. How can
we support you? Where do we follow you? Where do
we look for you? If we want to get in
the support Porsche business, if we want to be your brother,
get the book, Guards and Allies, and we want more
people to read this book, tell us, tell us and
(18:45):
tell listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yes, I mean you can always find me a color
change out of work right like go you know, join in.
We are on some of the platforms we campaign against,
and so you can also find us on X like
on Instagram, on Facebook, where our people are frankly, you know,
(19:09):
on the in the corners of the interwebs. The one
thing I will say in terms, I'm so happy and
like appreciative of the opportunity to be here, and I
would say it is, you know, folks like y'all, and
you know shows like this that are how we are
going to get our people back. That won't happen talking
to people, you know through the New York Times and
(19:30):
the Washington Post like that just isn't where our folks
are and so it is. You know ya, y'all play
such an important role in the ecosystem. Yeah, I know,
I've said ecosystem a thousand times, but it is such
an important role in any way, you know, to be
supportive to you know, engaged, to let folks know about
our work, keep people informed, and let people know how
(19:51):
to get engaged.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Glad to be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We just followed you, sent you a message, so we
are definitely going to lock in you know, we we
would love to have you back on this show. We'd
love to have you on any one of our other
shows or all of them. We'd love to continue to
build with you. This is a moment where we are
(20:17):
you know, We've always been about you know, solidarity and
kind of galvanizing all of this energy, you know from
folks who want to make the world more equitable for
all of us. But now it's not just a nice thought.
Now it's kind of mission critical. We kind of need
each other more than everything. So we'll definitely do our part.
(20:39):
As I mentioned, we're following you. Our hope is that
we can continue these conversations moving forward. But for now,
you know, I just want to say thank you. On
behalf of me and Q and Chris and all of
us here at the Black Information Network. Thank you very
much for coming on to share your time and your
your brilliance. And you know, the work that you have done,
(21:00):
work that your organization has done, the work that you
are doing, work you continue to do. It's a joy,
it's an honor. And you know, count us among you
know your brothers. Uh, you know when you need we
need a little extra on this side of the world
and the media side of the world or whatever, because
we got the bullhorn still too, and the batteries do work.
So we did the ground any sign right once again the.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Day of Action and so any you know, anyway, if
you can highlight their events going on across the country.
Color of Change is you know, one of the sponsors
of that Day of action. It's really about hands off
our medicaid, hands off our student loans, sure, hands off
our healthcare, like hands off food for our children, and
hands off snap And so if you can amplify that
(21:44):
gets to attend and hopefully turn out that be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Oh, we are all over it. Don't worry about that.
That's that's kind of what we do. We do believe
in direct action around here, so I'll leave you to
interpret that for your own purposes, all right, and that
is going to do it for us here on Civic Cipher.
So we appreciate you tuning in once again. I've been
your host. Rams' Jah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
He is Ramsy's jaw king Ramses John's how I refer
to him. I am q Ward and I appreciate you
guys once again tuning in with us on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yes, indeed, and just so you know, that actually is
my name. It's all my birth certificate, so King is
not just flattery around here. It actually is my name. Anyway,
do us a favor. Hit the website download this in
any previous episodes. We need subscribers for the podcast as well,
so please subscribe. Subscribe, subscribe, even if you can't listen
(22:36):
to it every week. The subscription helps us out a lot.
If you're a fan of the show and you want
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follow me on all social media at Rams's joh
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I Am Qward on all social media as well, and
we are civic cipher on other platforms, so lock him
with us there as well, and until next week you'll peace.
Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast
the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop
Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher Army host Rams's Jah.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
He is Rams's Jaw I am q Ward. You are
tuned in to Civic SciTE, Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
You are, and we appreciate you sticking around because we
are having a fantastic conversation with the one the only
civil rights attorney, Portia Allen Kyle, the managing director of
Color of Change for again, for those who are unfamiliar
to the Color of Changes, the nation's largest online racial
justice organization. They help people respond effectively to injustice in
the world, and as a national online force driven by
seven million members, they move decision makers and corporations and
(00:34):
government to create a more human and less hostile world
for black people in America. We're having a conversation about
the new administration and how that affects social justice organizations
and the plights of those organizations, hers in particular. And
a quick note, I want to make sure that I
say that our Ebony Excellence segment earlier was erroneously credited
(00:57):
to Forbes. It actually comes from Essence magazine, but right now,
we're going to get to what comes from Forbes magazine.
This is our time to show you how to be
ABA become a better Allied by BLA NQ take it Away.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
A twenty one year old man in New York has
been cured of sickle cell anemia following treatment with a
pioneering gene therapy. According to his doctors, New York residents,
Sebastian Bozil was treated with a pioneering new gene therapy
approach called Lithgenia, developed by biotech company Bluebird Bio. Mister
(01:31):
Bozil received the treatment on December seventeenth, twenty twenty four,
and has not had any symptom of sickle cell anemia since,
leading his doctors to believe that the treatment has likely
cured the disease. Scle cell anemia is a serious inherited
disorder of red blood cells, which mostly affects black and
Hispanic people. There are over one hundred thousand people with
(01:51):
the disorder in the US, and the condition causes a
range of symptoms, including blood clots and strokes, and a
resultant reduction and lifespan of twenty years on average. Is
caused by inheriting defective copies of a hemoglobin gene, causing hemoglobin,
which carries oxygen in red blood cells, to be subfunctional.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
The defect causes red.
Speaker 2 (02:11):
Blood cells and effective people to be sickle or crescent
shaped instead of disshaped as normal, limiting the cell's ability
to carry oxygen. Sickle red blood cells are also more
prone to clump together and cause blockages to blood vessels,
causing severe pain and tissue damage. Previously, people with sickle
cellinemia have been mostly treated with therapies which can control
(02:32):
but not cure the disease. Some people have been cured
by giving them bone marew transplants from external donors, normally
a close relative without sickle cell anemia, but the procedure
does not always work comes with a host of side
effects and a risk of dying according to the Natural
According to the National Institute of Health, about one in
twenty children under sixteen receiving bone marrow transplants per sycle
(02:55):
cellinemia have died, and one of ten of people sixteen
years or older.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
You think of certain things as kind of like quintessentially American.
You know, things that people will do no matter what
because they are American people things that people will get
no matter what because they are American. And to see
this administration villainize the Department of Education as though it's
(03:21):
somehow corrupt, somehow wasteful, you know whatever, without substantiating any
of those claims, and then you know, just with the
wave of a pen, dismantled this. This it's now a
legacy department. You know, you mentioned Brown versus Board of Education,
which was decades ago. So this is now fundamentally who
(03:42):
we are as a nation, as a superpower on the
global stage. It's it's it's it's it's crazy how there's
a surprising calm associated with it, and in terms of
the administration, how they handle the optics around it, Like
(04:03):
the presidents signed that with black children around him, so
as to say this is not to you know, disproportionately
affect back black children. This is going to be a
benefit to all right, And so they got these props
that they use to you know, it's such a crazy,
uh time to live in. And I know I can't
state that enough, but we're stuck here, right and I
(04:27):
know that can be very frustrating for people, And I
don't want to pretend like it's not frustrating for us
who are kind of the voices and are kind of
leading movements here and there. But you know, for people
that don't have a microphone and an audience like you
and I and you have today that still feel like
(04:50):
doing nothing is insufficient, talk to us about some ways
that maybe individuals can resis the forces of this administration,
you know. And I don't want to state your brief here,
but I do want to mention that, you know, we
(05:12):
talked about the boycotts, and that's obviously one one way
that we can go about doing it. But Target has
and I don't know if you've heard about this, but
Target is pushed back on that, saying, well, the black
products don't sell, and the people that we've hired or
that we've kind of put on the store shelves have
only made products that appeal to black people, and so
(05:33):
the products don't move as quickly, and so they need
like more in the way development. That's something to which
I pushed back and said, you know, you know, if
you can lose money on a Black Friday with loss
leaders to get more people in the store, then there's
a business case that you can make for that. And
on top of that if you have black products on
(05:57):
the shelves and you're committed to working with these these
creators and these black entrepreneurs to develop the businesses alongside
this island target, then you know you can commit the
resources and the business strategies and so forth to develop
the brands. You don't just give up after a couple
of years. In any event, that's just me kind of
leading you in the in the direction I didn't want
(06:17):
to do that. But again, the question is like ways
that individuals can you know, in your own house, when
you go to work, you come home, you take care
of your kids, you put them to sleep, you wake
up tomorrow, you got to fix the garage, and we
can what are those people what can they do to
maybe help all of us resist the forces of this administration?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
You know those you said so many things. No, I'm sorry,
through my mind. Well, I mean, the.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
First thing that was running through my mind is I
really wish we could like get aligned to stop allowing
people to use our babies as props.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
But maybe that's separate conference.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, no, no, you're not wrong.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
But the second thing that started running through my mind was,
you know how just not plausible, like just actually not
believable some of the arguments that these like you know,
corporations and folks are making and so like, even on
the on the attacks against diversity, equity and inclusion and
(07:12):
the administration's position that like these are illegal and you know,
reverse discrimination. Like if that were to be true, then
all of these companies across industries, with all of their
counsel in separate law firms, and all of these colleges
and all of these programs had to all come to
the same wrong conclusion about their legality of these programs
(07:36):
and about you know, what they do. And now, like
when you really break it down, what had to happen
to get some of these programs together.
Speaker 3 (07:43):
The idea that they're like all just illegal and you know.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
Running a foul of the law and discriminating against white
people is like actually kind of laughable as a like
as a premise. But to the question you actually asked,
not the question I wanted to answer.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Like, well do both.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I mean, we're here.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
It's you know, there is so much people can do
on an individual basis, and I you know, really will
say it all matters because there there's levels of engagement.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Right, Like there's really levels to this.
Speaker 4 (08:14):
And people organizing their family at Thanksgiving is just as
important as like showing up you know, in the in
the street for protests. Right like, we all have lanes
that we occupy.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
We all have we all have a role in those
lanes and a role that we could play very well.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
Right Like, so if your your starting places, I'm new
to this trying to learn, then like the best thing
you can do is go be well informed because our
people are subject to misinformation. And if your family is
like my family, you know, we we got the text chats,
the WhatsApp chains. Some are still sending email from their
AOL you know accounts like and you know, trying to
(08:53):
figure out what's real what's not. Got an email from
my aunt about like our social security, you know, windfall
and this and that.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Like we're all.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Trying to figure out what's true when we're taking in
different information from all places, some of those places more
reputable than others. But like anybody that can, you know,
take the time and do the work. We all have
that cousin we call when we have a question about
you know, maybe money or something we have that you
know person we call when we have a question about
you know that we trust as a messenger, et cetera.
(09:21):
And if you're one of those persons, as many of
us are, on at least one issue, be the reputable
source and not you know, the source that fans the misinformation,
right like, they're the second.
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Thing. We need institutions.
Speaker 4 (09:38):
And I don't just say this, you know as Portie
who is you know, the interim executive director of Color
of Change. I say this as like someone who understands
very deeply in an eat from an ecosystem perspective, the
role that all of these various organizations play. And we
can't all play the same role, right Like, we need
someone who is more amenable to the end side who's
(10:00):
going to kind of do their thing that then allows
Color of Change from the outside to come in from
a different angle and go a little harder and push,
you know, a little further.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Right.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
We need organizations that are you know, focused on uh,
you know, whipping together attorneys. We need folks who are
focused on the you know, media and narrative. We need
people that are going to take on those democracy and
voting fites, who are going to organize students who are
going to But all of those institutions need funding. And
(10:30):
resources and more importantly, they need engagement you know from folks,
and so for folks looking how to you know, do
something and stand up, become involved whatever that choice is
for you, find a find an organization and love it
like love it with your time, love it with your
resources if you can, love it with your energy and
your expertise, because we all need reinforcement and you know,
(10:54):
support from from the community in this moment if we're
going to weather the storm, because our institutions will be
under attack, and you know we've seen that in history,
we've already seen it to start today. The third thing
that I you know, really in addition to you know,
kind of being being the educating and being the source
(11:15):
of you know, good information to you know, becoming involved
with organizations, et cetera. When see something, say something is
like maybe a shorthand way to put it, but there
are oftentimes that we see injustice in any form. Right
like we're at work and somebody says something really messed
up and instead of saying, hey, that was wrong, in
(11:36):
the moment and calling it out will maybe give some private,
you know, some private consolation to you know, somebody who
was wronged or heard or discriminated, discriminated against, or aggrieved.
This is a moment and the hate that we're experiencing,
the like neo segregationist, the agenda that we're experiencing, thrives
in silence.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
We have to, you know, speak up.
Speaker 4 (11:58):
We have to push back on these ideas and have
to be really loud about it, because they will drown
out the ecosystem. There's just more there aren't folks at
the same There's no Twitter for like or ex for
justice at the moment. Right Blue Sky is trying to
be a thing. It does not have the reach of x.
(12:18):
It does not have the reach of Facebook. It does
not have the reach of you know, of Instagram or
Meta or Reddit or many of them. Yeah, like, the
infrastructure of hate is deep, and the infrastructure that props
up right wing agendas and propaganda is really really deep.
(12:39):
We need to you know, really figure out the ways
to counterbalance that. And part of that is even in
those spaces to continue to you know, rise up. Part
of it is making investments in a different set of
ecosystem and infrastructure that's going to get to our people
and find our people where they are.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
I want to stay where we are for a second,
you spoke about kind of being the source for good information,
and in the spaces that we all work in, we
admittedly and knowing we have access to more accurate information
than most people. The problem I've been facing in my ecosystem,
and I've shared this with Ramses with increasing frustration by
(13:22):
the day, is that it seems that no one wants
to be properly informed. Everybody just wants to be right,
so they'll post something or blast something off and it'll
be wrong, and I'll go fact check and do the
research and bring them accurate information, and they just have
no interest in the information I'm bringing, even though it's
(13:42):
far more accurate and far more true. Using our tools
and our resources to kind of galvanize our communities around
good information, it seems that all of us have also
learned that there is wealth in writing, because people who
are seeking out information do still read. Ramses and I
(14:03):
are working on a book really about radical candorous allyship
with intention. Like you said, passive, you can't be a
passive ally anymore. You can't be a neutral ally anymore.
You can't just not be racist, you have to be
anti racist. So we're working on a project now to
that end. However, you are an author who I think
(14:27):
a lot more people should be following and should be
getting more information from. Can you talk to us a
little bit about advice to thrive by because we want
listeners to be able to tap in with that as well.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Oh that first, that's very kind, So thank you.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
You know.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
One of the lessons and takeaways that I've had across
like it really actually doesn't matter what role I've been in,
is that the bench is too small. There are not
enough of us who are not just where we are now,
we're you know, already somewhat outnumbered in this capacity, but
those who are coming up behind. We have not necessarily
(15:12):
invested the time, the resources, the energy to build up
that next generation to make sure that when it's you know,
time to step aside, it's time to step aside, right,
And I would love nothing more. You know, I'm not
as young as I used to be and not as
old as I hope to get right, but I fully
(15:32):
anticipate and want to be when it's my time to
step aside, to be outflanked by somebody coming up younger
who's like, hey, you're not pushing us bold enough, you're
not taking us far enough, we should be demanding more
raising the standard and really you know, towing the line
and so invice to thrive by, you know, was really
(15:53):
born from that desire on how to build up the bench,
and particularly for attorneys and for public interest attorneys specifically.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
You know, there isn't really a clear career path, you know,
for those who want to come into this and do
this type of work. And there certainly aren't, you know,
any aren't A lot of cheat codes are kind of
behind the scenes on like hey, this is you know,
kind of how it works. Here's how to engage in
some strategy to get you know, from from where we
are to where we're going, and wanting to provide some
(16:29):
of the advice that would otherwise require insider information backgrounds,
you know, just hidden things that people who you know
have been in space know, but if you don't have
access to spaces, or you're the first one from your
family or the first one you know from your social
(16:49):
network may just not know that.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
Can help open doors. And like that that was the
impetus with the goal of you know, really perhaps trying
in a personal way to open more doors in a
more lasting and systemic way where one on one. Mentorship
is never was never going to get to scale as
much as I love it, and it's very fulfilling. But like,
(17:12):
we can't mentor ourselves out of systemic injustices, right, and
so then how do we pass information that allows people
to take advantage and allows people to engage and equips
them with the tools that hopefully makes their journey and
their pathway a little bit easier, Not you know, not
addicating duties of mentorship and sponsorship altogether, but wanting to
(17:34):
you know, make impact us a little bit more lasting.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Poorscha, I first want to say thank you for just
making time for us. These conversations are so much more
important than we realize. I think a lot of our constituents,
a lot of our friends, a lot of our colleagues
are dealing with this combination of anger, frustration, and hopelessness.
And we turn out to be the voices that they trust.
(18:00):
And we know this because people walk up to us
and tell us, you know, we we are more necessary
now than we were a few months ago. And as
hard as it is to accept the gravity of that statement,
we've heard it enough times to know that it's true.
So someone like yourself making time to talk to us
and just inspire us. Because even we have those days
(18:23):
where we're looking around like the sky is falling and
we have no idea what to do next. How can
we support you? Where do we follow you? Where do
we look for you? If we want to get in
the support Porsche business, if we want to be your brother,
get the book, Guards and Allies, and we want more
people to read this book, tell us, tell us and
(18:45):
tell listeners where they can find you.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
Yes, I mean you can always find me a color
change out of work right like go you know, join in.
We are on some of the platforms we campaign against,
and so you can also find us on X like
on Instagram, on Facebook, where our people are frankly, you know,
(19:09):
on the in the corners of the interwebs. The one
thing I will say in terms, I'm so happy and
like appreciative of the opportunity to be here, and I
would say it is, you know, folks like y'all, and
you know shows like this that are how we are
going to get our people back. That won't happen talking
to people, you know through the New York Times and
(19:30):
the Washington Post like that just isn't where our folks
are and so it is. You know ya, y'all play
such an important role in the ecosystem. Yeah, I know,
I've said ecosystem a thousand times, but it is such
an important role in any way, you know, to be
supportive to you know, engaged, to let folks know about
our work, keep people informed, and let people know how
(19:51):
to get engaged.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
Glad to be able to do so well.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We just followed you, sent you a message, so we
are definitely going to lock in you know, we we
would love to have you back on this show. We'd
love to have you on any one of our other
shows or all of them. We'd love to continue to
build with you. This is a moment where we are
(20:17):
you know, We've always been about you know, solidarity and
kind of galvanizing all of this energy, you know from
folks who want to make the world more equitable for
all of us. But now it's not just a nice thought.
Now it's kind of mission critical. We kind of need
each other more than everything. So we'll definitely do our part.
(20:39):
As I mentioned, we're following you. Our hope is that
we can continue these conversations moving forward. But for now,
you know, I just want to say thank you. On
behalf of me and Q and Chris and all of
us here at the Black Information Network. Thank you very
much for coming on to share your time and your
your brilliance. And you know, the work that you have done,
(21:00):
work that your organization has done, the work that you
are doing, work you continue to do. It's a joy,
it's an honor. And you know, count us among you
know your brothers. Uh, you know when you need we
need a little extra on this side of the world
and the media side of the world or whatever, because
we got the bullhorn still too, and the batteries do work.
So we did the ground any sign right once again the.
Speaker 4 (21:21):
Day of Action and so any you know, anyway, if
you can highlight their events going on across the country.
Color of Change is you know, one of the sponsors
of that Day of action. It's really about hands off
our medicaid, hands off our student loans, sure, hands off
our healthcare, like hands off food for our children, and
hands off snap And so if you can amplify that
(21:44):
gets to attend and hopefully turn out that be wonderful.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Oh, we are all over it. Don't worry about that.
That's that's kind of what we do. We do believe
in direct action around here, so I'll leave you to
interpret that for your own purposes, all right, and that
is going to do it for us here on Civic Cipher.
So we appreciate you tuning in once again. I've been
your host. Rams' Jah.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
He is Ramsy's jaw king Ramses John's how I refer
to him. I am q Ward and I appreciate you
guys once again tuning in with us on Civic Cipher.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
Yes, indeed, and just so you know, that actually is
my name. It's all my birth certificate, so King is
not just flattery around here. It actually is my name. Anyway,
do us a favor. Hit the website download this in
any previous episodes. We need subscribers for the podcast as well,
so please subscribe. Subscribe, subscribe, even if you can't listen
(22:36):
to it every week. The subscription helps us out a lot.
If you're a fan of the show and you want
us to keep growing and you can't donate, you can't
do any of the other things on the website, you
can subscribe. You can subscribe on YouTube and subscribe to
the podcast. It really helps to show out. You can
follow me on all social media at Rams's joh
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I Am Qward on all social media as well, and
we are civic cipher on other platforms, so lock him
with us there as well, and until next week you'll peace.
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