October 18, 2024 • 57 mins
This week, Rachel is joined by the wonderful Gucci Westman who is sharing her incredible story about becoming one of the most sought after makeup artists to Hollywood’s A-list. Gucci has built an extraordinary career while simultaneously creating and overseeing her clean make-up line, Westman Atelier.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and
of course fun. If you're a makeup lover, this episode
is for you. The extraordinary, incomparable guccis Man is on
the podcast today sharing her incredible story about being one
(00:29):
of the most sought after makeup artists to truly Hollywood's
a list from the time I started and she is
still completely on top of her game. Guchi's also the
founder of her incredible clean makeup line, Westman Attilie. I
love adore Gucci so much. She's a friend, she is
(00:51):
an inspiration, and there's so much I cannot wait for
you to hear her story. I actually learned so much.
I'm so excited about how she grew up, where she
grew up, and how she is married to her business partner,
so lots to get into and also a mother of three,
So let's jump in. What I want to talk about is,
(01:14):
you know, I was lucky enough to meet you very
early on in my career, but you were already when
I met you, which I want to say it was
like two thousand and four or five something, crazy like
that you were already at that point, meaning very young,
(01:34):
already like the most thought after like in Hollywood, because
I had just come here and I was working with
you know, Cameron Diaz and a lot of women who
were like, oh my god, can you get Gucci Westman?
Oh my god, wait, Kucci Wesson's going to come to
her make Gucci's doing her for the premiere. So like well,
and it was sort of like, Okay, if Kuchi's doing somebody,
none of us have to worry about anything. We're like, okay,
(01:56):
we don't have to tell anything. So I want to
talk about your sort of beginning for a minute, just
sort of like how did you Where did you grow up?
And how on earth did you say like I'm going
to be a makeup artist? Like what how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
A really good question. So I I was born.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
In California and my parents were kind of hippyish.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
We lived in.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
An Ostrom for a short amount of time, which is
where my name came from, and it was a nickname
of you know, like a Hindu name. And then my
dad is Swedish, so we moved to Sweden when I
was fifth No, I was.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Ten from California. Yeah, it's a huge shift. Okay, big,
that's talk about heavy lift. Yeah, that was considered a
I think a heavy lift. I don't even believe I
owned socks at the time. I was like, great things.
I didn't speak Swedish, I didn't have socks. And then
(02:59):
we didn't just moved.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
To Sweden, but we moved to one of the most
northern parts of Sweden, to Umio, which is on the
very northern tip.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And why was that? I'm just curious because you had
these very bohemian parents, right, he's very hippie tip parents
who gave you the coolest name in history that I'm
sure every day of your life someone says, is that
your real name? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So last night I was next Sunrise, Yes love her,
and she goes, so, tell me about your name. It's
unique and I was like, says Sunrise. And then I
told her and I was like, so, what's the story
with your name? And she's like, I was born at Sunrise,
(03:44):
Like okay, we.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I would have thought that Gucci came from like Italian
parents born in Milan. And I'm sure, I mean, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
What everyone thinks. Of course you.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And if you moved to Sweden, Gucchi.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So you moved to Sweden with the name Guji, my
dad ish and okay. There he was completing art school, okay,
and he.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Had a course there he wanted to complete, and he
wanted us to grow up, and he wanted us to
live in Sweden, and so I we I lived there
for twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And I think part of.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
My I guess my formative really formative years happened in Sweden,
as in where my true values lie and just you know,
believing in quality over and over.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I have to say, I go back to growing up
that way and with my parents being really interested in
ingredients and what are we eating and is it necessary?
And that's been my whole life, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, before it was a thing and befo it was
like cool, and before it was like it was always clean.
You're like, everything I've ever eaten in my first twenty
five years of life was clean and unprocessed. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Everything was always like that in our family. I didn't
know anything different, and so I did rebel for a
period of time. I would take my lunch money and
buy candy as much as I could. Of course, we
weren't allowed to have sugar.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I mean, it was crazy. We weren't allowed to have
anything that was like for a moment. They were super
strict for a while, like nothing processed in our kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I was like, I'm never invited anyone over. It's so weird.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Was not everybody in Sweden like that?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You no who it was? Even vegetarian?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I was like, great, not only do I have this
weird name, and you guys like sing like these Hindu
songs on third days.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And meditate all the time of all these gods everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Not only that, but a vegetarian. I'm like, nobody eats
like that, and so.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Wait, so do you have siblings? Are you? And only
no I have I have three brothers.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You have three brothers?
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Okay, so it must have been also really hard for them.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I mean no, they were younger.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Oh okay, okay, it was the oldest.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Honestly, it was the hardest for me because I was ten, right,
I was leaving my friend group and speak the language,
and I just was. I struggled for a bit, and
then I was super grateful. All I remember is being
so grateful for having grown up there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Right, well, because I would imagine now it's like, thank god, right,
like that was the greatest gift your parents could have.
I would do anything to raise my kids in like
countryside of Sweden right now.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I think I think it was a really nice
you know and.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Disguise that just to be exposed to that cultural aspect
that is so rich and I would have never you know,
I have to say, my little friends that I was
hanging out with in Claremont, which is where I lived
before we moved, they were like smoking pot and drinking
(07:22):
it like I was ten, so like before that they
were smoking pot and drinking and I never, luckily never
wanted to do that. I knew somehow that it was wrong,
and I also probably knew that my parents would get
really mad. But I guess I had more supervision than
(07:43):
some of my other friends. And yeah, I did feel
really grateful because also when you're in eure Up, you're
so much closer to.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Everything, everything, you can jump out to anywhere I know
so much better.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I just feel like, oh, you know, I can go
and be a no pair in Switzerland, or I can
live in France for a summer and it's easy.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You take a train or you know, it's not like
such a big deal.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well wait, so okay, so you're in Sweden, you live
there for twenty five years, what happens you like, go
to college? Like like tell me about like how do
you wake up? Or you like, I'm not this kind
of person. I want to be an artist because clearly
so your dad is an artist. Yes, yes, that's important.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, so he he's very creatively gifted and he's really tough.
Well he's also very good at computer graphics, and he's
a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Technical. I think then I'm more more seriously creative as
opposed to like mathematical. Same, that's I'm not. That's definitely
not my h in my real house exactly. It's so
(09:11):
funny when people ask, you know, when we do interviews
and they're like, so, what is your ebadar? What do
you just like, what are your not?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
That's how it sounds to me, of course, what is
your what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Resale versus no? I mean, I'm like, okay, let me
get David. It's like, you don't make me sound like
so basic of course, But by the way, Gucci, that's
totally and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I really want to talk about that because I think
it's really important. So okay, so you comment, so you're like, Okay,
when do you decide that you want to be a
makeup artist? Because I want to go back to this
because I want to talk about a working with your
husband as yours partner because it wasn't always, and B
talking about the different roles and how important that is,
(10:03):
because I do think that's really important. But I first
want to talk about how you became good us men, Like,
how does that even happen? It's hard?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Oh well, I so my parents are both academic.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
My mom is an English teacher, has or was an
English teacher for her entire career. My dad, you know,
is very creative, but he also had taught computer graphics
or art graphics at universities. And I sat with them
(10:39):
after I finished. It's a little bit different in Sweden,
but I did this language course in what's kind of
the comparison is high school.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's called gymnasium.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so it's four years.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
And after I finished that, I sat with them and
I said that I definitely wanted to take a year
to see what I wanted to do, and they were like,
you know, very open and supportive about that as and
I know so that I was very you know, it's
(11:14):
that's such a big part of it though.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's why I'm saying I don't want to I don't
want to downplay that because a lot of women I
have on the pod, the parents are like no, maybe
a lawyer or like from this day fourth you're cut
off or from you know, no matter how much money
they had or didn't have. It was sort of like
year done, we're done, we love you, but like go
(11:38):
be free.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, and that's that is a huge part of it
because just understanding that there are so many different types
in the world. And and so I then went off
to Switzerland to be an au pair and perfect my
French and also you know, I that's a long story,
but I was. I lived with this family and the
(12:01):
mother was a fashion journalist and she would give me
boxes and boxes of makeup. And I growing up also
wasn't allowed to wear makeup, so which is kind of ironic,
and it made me really into it because I wasn't
allowed to.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Of course, yes, but here's the funny part about it.
You have the most non makeup makeup. Like I will
say to you, you look like you have nothing on,
but you're like, okay, let me tell you what I
have on.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
But that's you.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
But I think that's your gift, is that you can
do that.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I have a lot going on, I would say, I mean, yeah,
that you have Wes and Attilie, but it's like it
all ties back and it all works, and it's that fresh,
beautiful face.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It doesn't matter if it is or not, it just
matters that it looks that way.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, I mean I think that that aesthetic is there's
an appetite for that sort of just enhancing yourself. Yes,
you know, so you.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Look like Rachel who's hot and beautiful and gorgeous, still
can feel special.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know, it's still got to cover what needs to
be covered.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, I want to cover what you want it to
be for you, and it's you know, it's not for
the approval of others or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It is really for you and your kind of personal
joy and confidence and all those things.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Anyways, so the mother and the family, I was very
interested in makeup, and I also wanted to continue with
the languages.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I had a few different ideas. After I spent
I think nine or ten months in Switzerland. I thought, well,
maybe I want to be a translator, because I.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Why that makes me laugh. I don't know why that
makes me laugh. It's because I only know you as you,
so I'm having the visual.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Okay, yeah, so I that was a serious consideration for
a while because I do sort of have an ear
for language, and I thought maybe that would be what
I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Or then I also thought I wanted to be a.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Professional jumper horse jumper, and.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That makes more sense to me.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Okay, well that is also way more expensive to society,
so that was really an option. And then I did
really like this makeup concept and I would also go
to fashion shows in Paris and I thought, ooh, there's
something to that. And she helped me find a school
(14:50):
in Paris called Christian Chaveo e Calde Marciage, and I
ended up going there because I thought, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
It was actually in French, and I thought, if I'm
not good at makeup, at least I didn't waste my
time because.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's in French. Sure, So that was my thought proposition, right.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I was there for four months and then I felt
like I got enough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was like longer, but I felt like I got enough.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
After that, I wanted to go to this. I wanted
to see if I liked movies or movie makeup.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
You know, it's just trying to cover all the bases
and not waste time. So then I went to LA
and did a really crappy course called Joe Blasco okay, where.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
They asked me to be a teacher after two weeks.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, yeah, So that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Shows you what sort of quality that was, No, or
it shows that you start out it could be that too. Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Still in two weeks, I was like, are you I
don't even know what I'm doing here, but so so
I did that, and I was kind of, you know,
twiddling my thumbs for a little bit. And I met.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Casey Storm, you know, somewhere in that first six months
or so.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And how old were you at this point?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Like I was, I was maybe twenty four, twenty five okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
At that point you were like, I'm living in LA
I want to stay here.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well I didn't know that at that point, but yeah,
I was kind of becoming more and more clear.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I just thought that it was more opportunity, okay. And
and then I met Spike Jones through Casey, and after
that first meeting where I thought I totally wasn't sure
if he liked me or not because he was so
kind of difficult to read, I was like okay, and
needed like hardly, so I don't even think he said anything.
(16:56):
I don't remember. But then suddenly I did, you know,
commercial and every music video and everything with him a
long time, and then I did being John Malkovich.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And just before that, I ad met Cameron and had
done a few things with her, but not that many things.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And it was actually Spike who wanted me to do
the movie, not Cameron. Spike wanted me to do it right,
because I didn't know Cameron that well at the time.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
But we became hosts on that movie, and I did
make up John Malkovich cuzat Keener Cow So.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Men and women, because that's a whole different thing grooming.
It's you know, I mean, I think that's like a
whole another Not many people are strong in doing men's
grooming and women.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah. Well, I think also it's having done a lot
a lot of commercials and music videos, I really understood
and I really.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Responded to this idea of characters and not lighting. Yeah,
and not being distracted by the look of a person.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
If you're watching a movie and Rachel, you feel like
the clothing doesn't look authentically distressed acting, And it's the
same with a makeup. You know, I'm looking at a
guy who's supposed to look like he's beat up or
something and he's not.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It doesn't look real, then I'm not going to believe it.
It's going to be annoying and it's going to look cheap.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that was a big part of how I viewed
makeup full stop.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's also a really big skill set that I also
want to address because film makeup is so far different
than red carpet or like photo shoot makeup. Totally different thing,
and that is a skill in and of itself. And
I very often say the best makeup artists in my
(19:08):
career have always been artists that have worked on film. Yeah,
it's a totally different thing.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I think it's a different thing, and it gives you
a little bit more of perspective and that was helpful
for me.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And I think the way I do makeup is very much,
you know, my own way and what I feel best doing,
what I like the best, of course, very different from you.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Know, Pat and you know all these Cluccia Pironi and
all these artists who are so wildly talented, but they
have it's a different.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It's very perception and it's sort of like a thing.
And I love that, and I love getting my rocks off.
But I also I really appreciate, you know, when I've
finished someone's makeup and they're like, oh my god, I
feel so beautiful that yes, you.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Know, that's the wind, that's the wind, and.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
It feels really good. And I love that, and I love,
you know, having the ability to access something slightly different
about a person.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
That you know they may not have seen in themselves
or you know, not to be too kind.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Of get it deep, but no, I think it is deep.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think it is deep. Makeup is the deepest, in
my opinion, because I mean, I think coming up in
this industry and working with so many of the most
high profile people in the world, what I would say
is that the biggest celebrities I know or have worked with,
(20:56):
they are the most loyal to their makeup people, because
that is, in my opinion, the most vulnerable, right, So
they're loyal to stylist they're loyal to hair, but here
you can tweak, you can take it down if you
don't like it. Whatever. When you're putting your face out there,
that to me, that is the most personal, that is
(21:17):
the most exposed, that is the most vulnerable. And if
you don't like your makeup, you literally talk different, You
look down, don't have the confidence when they put that
camera on you, you go like this. There's a difference, right.
But what I've realized, one of the biggest testaments to you,
in my opinion, is that when I started my career
(21:38):
and was working with these people, are like early in
my career, you know, you were then the most sought after,
but it was also what I find to be the
most amazing is now twenty years later, after launching your
own brand, which I want to talk about that still today,
you're still the most for so much many, for so.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Many And the reason I want to.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Talk about that is because I do think that in
the last five to seven eight years, we've seen a
huge trend towards quite frankly, people looking unrecognizable in the
heaviness of makeup. And I think, look, I'm not here
(22:22):
to judge. I think I love makeup. You know, I
love makeup, but I think that there is a time
right now where sometimes I literally don't know who somebody
is when I first look, because I think they're actually
somebody else. I think that these faces are so painted,
and I think that's what the artist loves in God's speed,
(22:44):
and I think that's great, But I guess when I'm
turning on like let's just say Venice Film Festival, I
think it was recently, or Nicole Kimmen comes off a
boat and I believe you did her or whatever it was.
She just did a major thing where you did her
for it was you and I think a deer. Yeah,
And I was like, oh, those are my people. Like well,
(23:06):
because what I'll tell you is, at first I was like, God,
she looks unreal, Like she looks unreal, and she always
looks unreal, but like noticeably, just like the best version
of her. And then I saw that it was you
and a deer, and I was like, Okay, this makes
absolute sense to me. I'm totally unbiased, but I think
(23:26):
because she looks like the most gorgeous version of herself, right,
and I think that is your signature, and so I
want I think it's important to talk about your success
and how you've always stuck to your thing.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, I think I want to.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Talk about that. Honestly. I think it's important because you
can lose your way right like as a hair stylist
or a stylist when there's a trend towards like whether
it's grunge or whether it's like the naked trend or whatever,
but that's not you know, if I was still styling now,
like that's not my thing. I'm not doing that right now.
How do you do that? Do you ever say, oh,
(24:04):
maybe I should.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Do more of that or like, yeah, I for sure
I have gone through moments like that in my career
where I've thought, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh maybe I should tweak my style a little bit,
you know, yeah, yeah, maybe I should go heavier, take
a little personality crisis, And yeah, I feel like you're.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Such in a vulnerable position putting yourself out there all
the time with your name on something. And also, as
you said, in fashion, it can be such a harsh
environment and it can be anything but sweet and compassionate.
(24:48):
So you know, you're putting yourself out there and it's
a lot of men, and it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Of you know, competition.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, and it's not light.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, so there's there is a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So of course you have moments of self doubt. Plus well,
the addition to that.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's really challenging, I think for a freelance makeup artist
is that there's no guarantee how long we're going to work, how.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Much you're going to work, how if the same people
you worked with for five years will hire you ever again,
there's no and that's fine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You can feel very good thinking about as a woman.
You know, we we like nurture. We like nurturing, you know,
you like a certain amount of safety and knowing what
to expect.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But always being in this kind of position is hard
and I think, you know, I'll never forget. Years ago
Joe McKenna said to me years ago, I was just starting,
and he said, Oh, you're gonna be like all the
rest and you're gonna be married to your makeup bag.
And I was like, oh, no, I'm not. I'm definitely
not going to be that.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
And but you can see how it happens how because
you have to give up everything, things.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That are not reasonable, you know, like give up your
best friend's wedding or you know, like mom's sixtieth or
something like that. It's like these things that you do
not have to ever are not breastfeeding, you know, just
those things where you're going.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
To happen to me. I had to stop breastfeeding after
three months because I was on set and I was traveling,
and I was like, I can't, I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I know.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
I remember a philist I'm not going to mention, but
had his assistant come and get me out of the
bathroom when I was.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Pumping on a Sunday doing Interview magazine a men shoot.
So it was.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, So that that was oh, and then you just
become so then you think that, oh my god, that's
all you know, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So crazy too. Anyways, I sort of lost my train
of thought.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But no, it becomes harder and your and your freelance
and it's scary and people aren't nice and you start
to lose your way.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And I think what helps with all of understanding your
style and that you possibly do have a style, which
I certainly do, and I may have been in denial
for a period of time when people would say, oh,
you're known for the most beautiful natural makeup, for.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
The natural skin and it used to be so annoying
to me. I used to think, can you not see
what else I do?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That Mogue cover or that French Vogue or you know.
And I used to think to myself, gosh, I do
have a range, don't you see it? But it's just
what is more intuitive to me? And I think you
mature as a person and you feel more comfortable in
your own skin. All of that feels better, and it
(28:16):
feels like more something more confident than to own it. Yeah,
and and I just think.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
That over you know, the years of people telling, you know,
wanting to hire me for the skin, and you know,
I really do think that it obviously at some point
has to trickle down, even to me, like being how
sweetish having grown up in Sweden where no one's allowed.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
To take a compliment. Oh no, not, by the way,
say I don't. I don't think anyone taught it to me.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I actually think it's I just think it's women having
to be retrained to be able to take a compt lament.
I've never taken. I've never taken one and said thank you.
There's always like a defense.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
No, But why is that bad?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Why it's so interesting and feel arrogant if you just
say thank you somehow that feels arrogant.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well I am.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have I know a girl who I actually will
never forget this, but I did her makeup and she's
not a model, but she's very beautiful and I'll never
forget I did her makeup for something.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And I was like, gosh, she looks so beautiful. She's like,
I know, thanks, and you were like so caught up?
Good right, I don't what do you say? What's wrong
with you? No? Just it's not wild, but it's like refleshing,
you're like resinging it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I actually think it was Kate Hudson. I will never forget.
She actually looked in the mirror and was like I'm
not good. She was like this is good, right, and
this was your maybe fifteen twenty years ago, and I
was like, they're just so confident.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I fucking love her, Like, why can't we all be
like that? What is wrong? I had so much respect
for her same.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah she can own her yeah shit, yeah she really, but.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
She does it gracefully, and she does it in a
way where it's real. She means it firing. Yes, you
know it feels kind of like yes.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yes, yes, So I want to talk about launching your brand,
because I think that there must have been this point.
And I remember sitting at our friend's dinner outside in
East Hampton many summers ago. I want to say it
was like seventeen or eight twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen,
(30:48):
very end of summer, and we were sitting next to
each other and you were about to launch your brand,
and you were in a panic. You were so nervous.
You were like, oh my god, Rachel, I'm not I
don't like it tension. I don't the social media thing,
like I can't like do this, like I can't be
the person. I don't want to make it about me,
(31:09):
like and I want to do organic. But I then
it expires and there was all these things you were like.
I was like, creachy, this is going to be like
the best of the best. I just remember looking at
you and being like, I cannot believe you're nervous, Like
I cannot believe you're anxious because and I'll never forget
(31:29):
the conversation because you had so many questions and so
many things and all the things. And then I remember
it happening and it was like, of course, but I
imagine the thought process, and I want to hear what
made you start it was that at some point becoming
a mom and working so hard, and I think realizing
(31:53):
to your earlier point, you didn't want to be that
person married to their kid, right their make it back,
and you needed to have something that you could touch,
that was something you owned, that was something you could build, right.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, yes I did.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
And I think that you know, you can just continue
to run the circle where you're doing advertising editorial, maybe
get a contract for five years here and there, like
you can just continue and then.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Suddenly you're sixty and then you're like, oh, whoa. So
I did have kind of an idea on my head
when I wanted to sort of slow down running to
every single shoot, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And you were at Revlon for many years, right, you
were like the the what are your creative director?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
How do you? What are?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
You're a land home, right, I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You come first and major at Revlon is major. Yeah, well,
I mean it was a big deal.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Good you don't play it down.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Well. I always really liked the the product aspect and
it was really rewarding to get to play with they'll,
you know, just work with the chemists and kind of
think about what is what can.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
We make that women globally will respond to and we
can actually see.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Numbers and things. So I really found that very exhilarating,
and also just the way in which I got to
work with the chemist, especially at Landcombe. I worked so
closely with them, and I understood right away that that's
where the magic happens. You have to work directly with them.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I didn't want to work, you know, have a person
translating stuff for me. I wanted to work in the
room with them, and so that's so they can hear
your passion and all of that so nothing gets lost.
But I did at some point of after Revlon because
social media.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Became such a big thing. So I couldn't just, you know,
start quietly working on my own brand while at Revlon.
It'd just be possible.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So when I finished at Revlon, I was very close
to licensing my name and for a professional line, and
the night before we were really deep in negotiations, and
the night before the final signature, I was sitting with
(34:32):
David and when we lived in Chelsea, and I said,
do you think this is right?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Do you really think this is right? And you said,
I don't know, you get one shot, do you want
this to be the shot?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And I was looking at the deck and there was
like a wow. The fifth year was iwear and I
was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Think I want this to be the shot. Wow.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Then we decided to move away from that, and it
was awkward because that Chris. It was just like a
month later we went skiing and the people that we
were supposed to do the thing with were in place.
It was like they did not want to sit anywhere
near s. Yeah, of course I decided that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know, it was very it came relatively quickly. Well
it wasn't that quick, but at some point I thought, Okay,
I'm known for this skin, the quality of the skin,
and my philosophy around the skin. So I want to
create a system.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And that's very edited, very intuitive, that's rooted in skincare
that is more. It's obviously clean, it's more, but it
also has these active skincare ingredients that are at maximum
levels the right delivery systems, so they actually do something
(35:56):
for your skin. Because I use Roseasha for a long time,
but I don't want to just you know, use foundation
to put on.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
My skin and correct it. I want to I want
to actually repair my skin right on a multitask, and
so I wanted to peel back the layers and really
work on this system and share this kind of philosophy
with women, you know, all over because I feel like
I knew how to make it easy. Sure, and of
(36:24):
course the products have to perform, the ingredients have to
be phenomenal. You know.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
We really have always worked with really premium, premium you know, formulas,
and they've all been customized for us. Nothing has been
off a shelf, nothing packaging or formula. It's everything is
always customized up until now.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And it's still you know, one day maybe I'm hoping
we can make it easier, but it's it's not that
way yet. And I just thought that this, this could
be something, and we only have turn and turned.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Out Guccie, that it is something. It's everywhere, well, I
mean everywhere in a good way. It's not over it's
not over distributed. It's just in all the best places.
I mean, it's and it's so good. How many products
do you have now? Approximate ten thirty sixty.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Definitely not sixty. When we met with.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Barney's, I remember, yeah, because we were launching in twenty
and eighteen.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I feel like I kept asking you advice.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
But I remember it. I remember seeing it for the
first time.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, and we met with Barney's and they said, oh,
you have to launch at least sixty five skews and we're.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Like, we might launch with like nine or ten or
something like that, and they were like, okay, we'll take it.
But they also because we wanted it to be refilled
from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Right, that's not our customer, that's not going to work here.
And then of course we couldn't launch with.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Something that they said wasn't going to work for their customers.
So you have to sort of go back and do that,
you know, afterwards, that's okay. At least we didn't have
to go back and reformulate. We started with a really
small edit. And I remember to this day being in
Barney's the day we launched, and this woman had her
(38:20):
headphones on and she was like walking straight toward the
counter and she was talking to somebody and she was like,
where's where's the west Manttilia? I heard its launching today
and she had she had a British accent, and I
started crying because she was it. I know, I was like,
she's looking for It's like the first time you heard
(38:41):
it in the wild. Any Yes, and so I'm like,
oh my god, this is actually here in real life.
And I still get that, you know feeling, and yes,
I get.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
I feel so much validation now because there's so many
different type of women and there's so you know, many
who are so generous with coming up and just saying
different experiences they've had with different products and how they
they all almost always say that they feel their skin
quality has improved.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Wow, And we do work, you know, with serious scientists.
We're not playing around, so we're doing it definitely.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I mean, David and I always joke you could have
never done it harder. I don't think it's foresure the
hardest way you could ever.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I mean, but by the way I mean it's I
mean you can tell the difference. You see the difference.
It's luxury. I think it's luxury makeup. I think it's
worth every I mean, I think it's absolutely fair. I
don't think it's the most or the least. I think,
but it is. It's so good.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have it all over my face.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I mean I probably need to touch up, but I
just you know it's like my seven am run out
the door face. But let's talk about working with your husband,
because so David is a former very very successful uh
in the fashion industry Rag and Bow and some of
you may have heard of it.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
But what made you.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Make that decision? Because we are few and far between.
Obviously I have a different outcome right now. But it's
been a great run.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
Right But but but but I think I want to
talk about it because I think there are many I
don't even want to say many.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
They're a handful of husband and wife partners that I
know and have tremendous success and it still really works.
And so I want to talk about how you made
that decision and how it's been and are their challenges
And it doesn't have to be personal, it's just more.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I mean, I think I've always held such tremendous respects
for David and his intuition, his business sense. I mean,
I feel like two a large degree. We work together
a lot at.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Rag and Bone too, right right, because I brought all
the girl all the outs, and I.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Were also like amused for the brand too. I mean,
you know, well, I think just by nature, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, yeah, I mean I feel like I helped
with some of the clothing, the perfume. I mean, you know,
it's just a lot of collaborations. So it's always been
natural to us. But then this, I don't think I
would have ever wanted to do this with anybody else
(41:45):
because there's such inherent trust.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
I know, that's what I you know, between the two
of us.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And I respect and value his just I would never
quite any of his decisions when it comes to distribution, cadence,
when it comes.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
To of you know, if he ever raises his voice.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
On the phone with any business, any partner, I know
that there's a reason for it, because he never does that.
He's very logical, very He's just has this other it's wild.
He has a sixth sense when it comes to business.
(42:34):
And we just don't ever need to step in each
other's toes. The only thing I needed, you know, a
little prodding on earlier in the game.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Was making decisions, you know, sooner when it came approving
colors or you know.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
But now I just I have such a much bigger
understanding for calendars, and I.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Mean this has been like that was very early days
when I would just.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It's all learning process, that's building a business process.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
But I think he also appreciates what I bring and
we both where we both come together, which is so
fun is the packaging, you know, the look and feel
the product and what we wanted to look you know,
to look like, and we have.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We just both had love the packaging.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
You know, we love.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Design and objects and we've always the magnet.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I love the magnet.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Satisfying me too. You know, we've always had this kind
of flow when it came to aesthetic.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
It's never been a point of disagreement for us at home.
It's never been It's always been I love that I love.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We've always read.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
That's so important and so rare. I also think it's
very rare to me to find a person with a
creative eye and a business savvy that is, that is
to me in my career, in my life, that is
I have met literally maybe I could count on one hand.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, David is very unique.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Seriously, you know, it's it's really unique to have to
be able to wear both of those hats but still
be so respectful of your creative partner.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
If that makes it absolutely and I always feel like
David is right if he if I'm wearing an outfit
for example, Yes, what about more of a fitted top
or something?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Love him always right, love him, you know, and I
love him. Every guy should go to a David training
school is but it's true.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And he's always so generous with his time, and he's
given so much advice to young designers and young business entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
He's just very knowledgeable and he's a very very good listener.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, and he has two daughters, so I think that
also makes you an even better listener. He's got three
women in his house.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
He does have three women, that's true.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
And then put plus on our team at West Mantilia
and you're like ninety eight percent women.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I imagine we probably have Mormon than that now.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
But I think it's just very harmonious and there's just
no kind of like our values are the same.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
He's English, I grew up in Sweden.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
I'm half Swedish, and he wants we both stand for quality,
and we wanted to always create something that was different
and would stand the test of time, and that wouldn't
be just you know, a cash project that we just
do and be done. You know a lot of brands
(46:00):
are like I see them, they've been around for a
couple of years, they're already for sale, and it's like
boom boom boom, aractional And I just feel like we're
not those kind of people. And I think it's we're
creating the brand that is the closest that possibly could
be to the two of us, of course, with the
(46:21):
brilliant team that we have, but I think it it
really couldn't be any other way if it was the
two of us doing it the you know, in a
matter that we wanted to, you know, where we decide.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
What is the dream Gucci in terms of like, so
you're building this brand, and what's great is you likely
get to still pick and choose what you do in
terms of how you work with different clients, because you
do still do a lot with Anne Hathaway or Nicole
Kimmen or whomever. But I think like, as you continue
to build Westmintilier, like what is do you think about?
(46:59):
Like do you just want to keep perfecting the twenty products?
Are you like, Okay, can't wait to launch skin or
I'm just going to expand the range or like is
there I mean you kind of already answered this, You're
not really going at this as a in three years,
we want to sell this for X. It's sort of like,
let's continue to build the dream. We love what we're doing.
(47:20):
It's doing really well. But like, do you guys talk
a lot or do you like about what's next? Or
do you just keep living in the moment and keep
kind of doing what you're doing, Because I'm sure the girls,
you know, I mean, you have three children, a son
and two daughters, all just magnificent. Are you like, oh
my god, I want the kids to work in this
(47:42):
or you just don't even think about that.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I Mean sometimes I think both of us do think
that we want to you know, leave a brand that
it is rooted integrity, and we'll be around and bigger
and better when they you know, come of age and
so you know, they can feel proud.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
And I think that's always been our goal, is to
create something we all feel that our children that we
would want our children to you know, to the girls
to be able to use and not worry that they're
going to get, you know.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Some sort of disease from the ingredient. You know, I
think that that's honest, that's all been a goal.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
But you know, we are we do talk a lot
obviously about the business and about you know, life and
quality of life, and I do think there's there's a balance,
you know, being realistic but also knowing you know, that
some things may at some point need to shift.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Slightly to be able to do bigger and better things.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I feel that we absolutely are just getting warmed up
since we have now two skincare pure skincare products, we're
you know, launching, We're working on more. We we have
a few other categories that we're entering, and I do
feel that it's kind of nice because I've always been
(49:18):
interested in style and you know, lifestyle both you know,
wellness and home and all.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Of those things. I think there is a little bit
of space to kind of explore brand. Yeah, because because
I'm not just you know, a fashion makeup artist. Of course,
I'm living my you know, the brand lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
It's the Gucci Westman lifestyle. It's the Westman ittiliate lifestyle,
which is even Yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I see it, but I also see it because.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think, I don't know, I don't I look at
you as obviously like an iconic makeup artist, but I
weirdly more see you as like you the person as
the brand because you're someone that also people want to
show up at big events and wear great clothes and
have your own style. And I also think as you
(50:19):
expand your skincare, it's exciting because I do think that
taking what you are known for that's not a bad thing.
It's always great to be known for something. It doesn't
mean you can't diversify and be known for a lot
of things. But I think if you're going to be
known for beautiful skin, I mean that's a pretty great
thing to be known as as a makeup artist because
in my opinion, that's the most important thing you can
(50:42):
be great at. You know, when it comes to that's
it the biggest organ for God's sake.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
That's the money, that's the ticket.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Literally, it's that is My most biggest obsession is the skin.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
And you know, I'll never forget. David and I had
dinner with Bobby Brown and her husband.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Stevens, the coolest, coolest And this was years before we launched,
and I remember, you know, she was like, let me
you got to launch a brand and I was like, well,
I and I was really struggling when I got my office.
David was like, the ideas will come to you. And
Bobby was like, the ideas will.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Come to you like pull out tear sheets, and I
was like twiddling my I was like, no ideas are
coming to me. But I said to her, I think
I want to actually do skincare. I want to launch
with skincare, because that's that's I'm so passionate about skincare.
(51:42):
But I've always kind of combined skincare and makeup. And
she said that was ridiculous. I'm known for makeup. I
need to launch with a makeup, you know, wine and
And so I think that now it's we've done We've
done it well, and.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
You're in control of it with your name on it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And I think that all of the color products are
rooted in skincare, and they are. You know, we do
have clinical studies on the products, and it's just nice
just to show that it's not like a pivot, it's
not a marketing exept. Of course, my friend, this has
been how I grew up on an aschrom No meat,
(52:29):
It's like, this is a real deal meat. Now, No, so.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
You've never eaten meat like your whole life, that's how
you were raised. Yeah, I'm obsessed, like before it was cool.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Before it was cool. It was definitely not cool when
I was suffering in Sweden eating meals for lunch.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Does it make you feel better? I haven't eaten meat
since I was sixteen, where it was cool. And I
did not grow up in an ashram and come from
the biggest family of carnivores you've ever like and still now,
like flai grass, like steak tarted. I mean, you name it.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
A little cute mom.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
They love me. My whole family loves me.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
They love me.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
They think I'm like a mental patient.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
I do think that a little bit. It has to
do with your body type. And if you're you know,
you're what, you need something.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
And I don't think I could have meat, to be.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Honest, you couldn't if you've never had it, I don't
know would know what to do.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, Like pedal is so weird with.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
You know, even fish now she's like, doesn't she gets
so worried about the fish and I'm you know, And
and Dashes really mean to her because like a few
years ago, she went through the stage of wanting to
try chicken noodle soup, and Dash would say to her
in Spanish because she speaks Spanish to her nanny. He
would say, oh, the chicken died and the noodles, but
(54:00):
in Spanish, you know, so it sounded oho and lad,
and so she's like every anyways, well, I'm obsessed and
my listeners cannot here, cannot see your dewey skin right now,
(54:22):
But like she has, I'm looking at Gucci right now
and her her cheeks have this gorgeous like glow and
dew on them.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Can I tell is that?
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Please tell me? Is it baby cheeks? What is it?
Speaker 5 (54:34):
It's this really beautiful, bright, bluish futia and it just
brightens really action, and when you see it in the
in a compact.
Speaker 3 (54:47):
You're like, oh, I don't know about that, but when
you put it on the skin, it's like it looks.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
So that's something to talk about, because I do think
so many people, for us, like sim billions that look
at makeup and we're like, okay, we know the bronzie,
we know the pinky, we know whatever. But you see,
to your point, something that might look like a fuchho
or a blueish whatever, You're like, no, not for me,
(55:16):
not for me, but it might be, But then it
might be, and it becomes.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Completely for you once you see what it does to
your skin. It's so flattering on.
Speaker 3 (55:27):
I like eighty I would say every single person that
I've put it on, they're like, oh my god, well.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Fouci, I think you're going to have to do that
on social You're going to have to show that because
I think you should show that, Like, oh, you think
this won't work on you?
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, Oh that's a good idea, yes, Rachel, not just
a really cute grace.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Okay. I want to thank my beautiful friend Gucci for
being on the pod today. I mean, Gucci is you know,
she's this sort of like quiet force. She's got this
extraordinary story. She is incredibly humble. She has been one
of the most sought after makeup artists since I started
(56:23):
in two thousand and two thousand and three. We met
working with a mutual client and friend many many months ago,
and to now see her still being booked for the
biggest celebrities in the world twenty years later, and having
launched the most beautiful cosmetic line westmin Antilier that is
(56:44):
all over sold all over the world, and it's so good.
I am so obsessed with it. It's always in my
bag and always on my vanity and just hearing Gucci's story,
which I didn't even really know even more than half of,
was so incredible and so so unbelievably inspiring. I hope
(57:06):
you loved this episode as much as I did. Okay,
thank you so much for listening to Clembian Heels. If
you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
the iheartapp, or wherever you get your podcasts so you
don't miss a single episode this season. And be sure
to follow me on Instagram at Rachel Zoe and the
show at cleming in Heils pod for the latest episodes
(57:29):
and updates. I will talk to you soon.
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Heels for your weekly dose of glamour, inspiration and
of course fun. If you're a makeup lover, this episode
is for you. The extraordinary, incomparable guccis Man is on
the podcast today sharing her incredible story about being one
(00:29):
of the most sought after makeup artists to truly Hollywood's
a list from the time I started and she is
still completely on top of her game. Guchi's also the
founder of her incredible clean makeup line, Westman Attilie. I
love adore Gucci so much. She's a friend, she is
(00:51):
an inspiration, and there's so much I cannot wait for
you to hear her story. I actually learned so much.
I'm so excited about how she grew up, where she
grew up, and how she is married to her business partner,
so lots to get into and also a mother of three,
So let's jump in. What I want to talk about is,
(01:14):
you know, I was lucky enough to meet you very
early on in my career, but you were already when
I met you, which I want to say it was
like two thousand and four or five something, crazy like
that you were already at that point, meaning very young,
(01:34):
already like the most thought after like in Hollywood, because
I had just come here and I was working with
you know, Cameron Diaz and a lot of women who
were like, oh my god, can you get Gucci Westman?
Oh my god, wait, Kucci Wesson's going to come to
her make Gucci's doing her for the premiere. So like well,
and it was sort of like, Okay, if Kuchi's doing somebody,
none of us have to worry about anything. We're like, okay,
(01:56):
we don't have to tell anything. So I want to
talk about your sort of beginning for a minute, just
sort of like how did you Where did you grow up?
And how on earth did you say like I'm going
to be a makeup artist? Like what how does that happen?
Speaker 2 (02:12):
A really good question. So I I was born.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
In California and my parents were kind of hippyish.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
We lived in.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
An Ostrom for a short amount of time, which is
where my name came from, and it was a nickname
of you know, like a Hindu name. And then my
dad is Swedish, so we moved to Sweden when I
was fifth No, I was.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Ten from California. Yeah, it's a huge shift. Okay, big,
that's talk about heavy lift. Yeah, that was considered a
I think a heavy lift. I don't even believe I
owned socks at the time. I was like, great things.
I didn't speak Swedish, I didn't have socks. And then
(02:59):
we didn't just moved.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
To Sweden, but we moved to one of the most
northern parts of Sweden, to Umio, which is on the
very northern tip.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And why was that? I'm just curious because you had
these very bohemian parents, right, he's very hippie tip parents
who gave you the coolest name in history that I'm
sure every day of your life someone says, is that
your real name? Right? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
So last night I was next Sunrise, Yes love her,
and she goes, so, tell me about your name. It's
unique and I was like, says Sunrise. And then I
told her and I was like, so, what's the story
with your name? And she's like, I was born at Sunrise,
(03:44):
Like okay, we.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
I would have thought that Gucci came from like Italian
parents born in Milan. And I'm sure, I mean, okay.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
What everyone thinks. Of course you.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
And if you moved to Sweden, Gucchi.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
So you moved to Sweden with the name Guji, my
dad ish and okay. There he was completing art school, okay,
and he.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
Had a course there he wanted to complete, and he
wanted us to grow up, and he wanted us to
live in Sweden, and so I we I lived there
for twenty five years.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
And I think part of.
Speaker 3 (04:24):
My I guess my formative really formative years happened in Sweden,
as in where my true values lie and just you know,
believing in quality over and over.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I have to say, I go back to growing up
that way and with my parents being really interested in
ingredients and what are we eating and is it necessary?
And that's been my whole life, you know.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, before it was a thing and befo it was
like cool, and before it was like it was always clean.
You're like, everything I've ever eaten in my first twenty
five years of life was clean and unprocessed. Yeah, it was.
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Everything was always like that in our family. I didn't
know anything different, and so I did rebel for a
period of time. I would take my lunch money and
buy candy as much as I could. Of course, we
weren't allowed to have sugar.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
I mean, it was crazy. We weren't allowed to have
anything that was like for a moment. They were super
strict for a while, like nothing processed in our kitchen.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I was like, I'm never invited anyone over. It's so weird.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Was not everybody in Sweden like that?
Speaker 2 (05:46):
You no who it was? Even vegetarian?
Speaker 3 (05:50):
I was like, great, not only do I have this
weird name, and you guys like sing like these Hindu
songs on third days.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
And meditate all the time of all these gods everywhere.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Not only that, but a vegetarian. I'm like, nobody eats
like that, and so.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
That's so funny.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Wait, so do you have siblings? Are you? And only
no I have I have three brothers.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You have three brothers?
Speaker 5 (06:18):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Okay, so it must have been also really hard for them.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I mean no, they were younger.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Oh okay, okay, it was the oldest.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Honestly, it was the hardest for me because I was ten, right,
I was leaving my friend group and speak the language,
and I just was. I struggled for a bit, and
then I was super grateful. All I remember is being
so grateful for having grown up there.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
Right, well, because I would imagine now it's like, thank god, right,
like that was the greatest gift your parents could have.
I would do anything to raise my kids in like
countryside of Sweden right now.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah, I think I think it was a really nice
you know and.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
Disguise that just to be exposed to that cultural aspect
that is so rich and I would have never you know,
I have to say, my little friends that I was
hanging out with in Claremont, which is where I lived
before we moved, they were like smoking pot and drinking
(07:22):
it like I was ten, so like before that they
were smoking pot and drinking and I never, luckily never
wanted to do that. I knew somehow that it was wrong,
and I also probably knew that my parents would get
really mad. But I guess I had more supervision than
(07:43):
some of my other friends. And yeah, I did feel
really grateful because also when you're in eure Up, you're
so much closer to.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Everything, everything, you can jump out to anywhere I know
so much better.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
I just feel like, oh, you know, I can go
and be a no pair in Switzerland, or I can
live in France for a summer and it's easy.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
You take a train or you know, it's not like
such a big deal.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well wait, so okay, so you're in Sweden, you live
there for twenty five years, what happens you like, go
to college? Like like tell me about like how do
you wake up? Or you like, I'm not this kind
of person. I want to be an artist because clearly
so your dad is an artist. Yes, yes, that's important.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Yeah, so he he's very creatively gifted and he's really tough.
Well he's also very good at computer graphics, and he's
a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Technical. I think then I'm more more seriously creative as
opposed to like mathematical. Same, that's I'm not. That's definitely
not my h in my real house exactly. It's so
(09:11):
funny when people ask, you know, when we do interviews
and they're like, so, what is your ebadar? What do
you just like, what are your not?
Speaker 3 (09:20):
That's how it sounds to me, of course, what is
your what are you doing now?
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Resale versus no? I mean, I'm like, okay, let me
get David. It's like, you don't make me sound like
so basic of course, But by the way, Gucci, that's
totally and.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
I really want to talk about that because I think
it's really important. So okay, so you comment, so you're like, Okay,
when do you decide that you want to be a
makeup artist? Because I want to go back to this
because I want to talk about a working with your
husband as yours partner because it wasn't always, and B
talking about the different roles and how important that is,
(10:03):
because I do think that's really important. But I first
want to talk about how you became good us men, Like,
how does that even happen? It's hard?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Oh well, I so my parents are both academic.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
You know.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
My mom is an English teacher, has or was an
English teacher for her entire career. My dad, you know,
is very creative, but he also had taught computer graphics
or art graphics at universities. And I sat with them
(10:39):
after I finished. It's a little bit different in Sweden,
but I did this language course in what's kind of
the comparison is high school.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
It's called gymnasium.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
Okay, so it's four years.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
And after I finished that, I sat with them and
I said that I definitely wanted to take a year
to see what I wanted to do, and they were like,
you know, very open and supportive about that as and
I know so that I was very you know, it's
(11:14):
that's such a big part of it though.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
It is.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
That's why I'm saying I don't want to I don't
want to downplay that because a lot of women I
have on the pod, the parents are like no, maybe
a lawyer or like from this day fourth you're cut
off or from you know, no matter how much money
they had or didn't have. It was sort of like
year done, we're done, we love you, but like go
(11:38):
be free.
Speaker 3 (11:39):
Yeah, and that's that is a huge part of it
because just understanding that there are so many different types
in the world. And and so I then went off
to Switzerland to be an au pair and perfect my
French and also you know, I that's a long story,
but I was. I lived with this family and the
(12:01):
mother was a fashion journalist and she would give me
boxes and boxes of makeup. And I growing up also
wasn't allowed to wear makeup, so which is kind of ironic,
and it made me really into it because I wasn't
allowed to.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Of course, yes, but here's the funny part about it.
You have the most non makeup makeup. Like I will
say to you, you look like you have nothing on,
but you're like, okay, let me tell you what I
have on.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
But that's you.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
But I think that's your gift, is that you can
do that.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
I have a lot going on, I would say, I mean, yeah,
that you have Wes and Attilie, but it's like it
all ties back and it all works, and it's that fresh,
beautiful face.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It doesn't matter if it is or not, it just
matters that it looks that way.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, I mean I think that that aesthetic is there's
an appetite for that sort of just enhancing yourself. Yes,
you know, so you.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Look like Rachel who's hot and beautiful and gorgeous, still
can feel special.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
You know, it's still got to cover what needs to
be covered.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah, I want to cover what you want it to
be for you, and it's you know, it's not for
the approval of others or anything like that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
It is really for you and your kind of personal
joy and confidence and all those things.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Anyways, so the mother and the family, I was very
interested in makeup, and I also wanted to continue with
the languages.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
So I had a few different ideas. After I spent
I think nine or ten months in Switzerland. I thought, well,
maybe I want to be a translator, because I.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Know, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Why that makes me laugh. I don't know why that
makes me laugh. It's because I only know you as you,
so I'm having the visual.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Okay, yeah, so I that was a serious consideration for
a while because I do sort of have an ear
for language, and I thought maybe that would be what
I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Or then I also thought I wanted to be a.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Professional jumper horse jumper, and.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That makes more sense to me.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Okay, well that is also way more expensive to society,
so that was really an option. And then I did
really like this makeup concept and I would also go
to fashion shows in Paris and I thought, ooh, there's
something to that. And she helped me find a school
(14:50):
in Paris called Christian Chaveo e Calde Marciage, and I
ended up going there because I thought, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
It was actually in French, and I thought, if I'm
not good at makeup, at least I didn't waste my
time because.
Speaker 2 (15:06):
It's in French. Sure, So that was my thought proposition, right.
Speaker 3 (15:12):
I was there for four months and then I felt
like I got enough.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
It was like longer, but I felt like I got enough.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
After that, I wanted to go to this. I wanted
to see if I liked movies or movie makeup.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
You know, it's just trying to cover all the bases
and not waste time. So then I went to LA
and did a really crappy course called Joe Blasco okay, where.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
They asked me to be a teacher after two weeks.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Yeah, yeah, So that.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Shows you what sort of quality that was, No, or
it shows that you start out it could be that too. Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Still in two weeks, I was like, are you I
don't even know what I'm doing here, but so so
I did that, and I was kind of, you know,
twiddling my thumbs for a little bit. And I met.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Casey Storm, you know, somewhere in that first six months
or so.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
And how old were you at this point?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Like I was, I was maybe twenty four, twenty five okay, okay, yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
At that point you were like, I'm living in LA
I want to stay here.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Well I didn't know that at that point, but yeah,
I was kind of becoming more and more clear.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
I just thought that it was more opportunity, okay. And
and then I met Spike Jones through Casey, and after
that first meeting where I thought I totally wasn't sure
if he liked me or not because he was so
kind of difficult to read, I was like okay, and
needed like hardly, so I don't even think he said anything.
(16:56):
I don't remember. But then suddenly I did, you know,
commercial and every music video and everything with him a
long time, and then I did being John Malkovich.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
And just before that, I ad met Cameron and had
done a few things with her, but not that many things.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And it was actually Spike who wanted me to do
the movie, not Cameron. Spike wanted me to do it right,
because I didn't know Cameron that well at the time.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
But we became hosts on that movie, and I did
make up John Malkovich cuzat Keener Cow So.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Men and women, because that's a whole different thing grooming.
It's you know, I mean, I think that's like a
whole another Not many people are strong in doing men's
grooming and women.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah. Well, I think also it's having done a lot
a lot of commercials and music videos, I really understood
and I really.
Speaker 3 (18:06):
Responded to this idea of characters and not lighting. Yeah,
and not being distracted by the look of a person.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
If you're watching a movie and Rachel, you feel like
the clothing doesn't look authentically distressed acting, And it's the
same with a makeup. You know, I'm looking at a
guy who's supposed to look like he's beat up or
something and he's not.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
It doesn't look real, then I'm not going to believe it.
It's going to be annoying and it's going to look cheap.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
So that was a big part of how I viewed
makeup full stop.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
That's also a really big skill set that I also
want to address because film makeup is so far different
than red carpet or like photo shoot makeup. Totally different thing,
and that is a skill in and of itself. And
I very often say the best makeup artists in my
(19:08):
career have always been artists that have worked on film. Yeah,
it's a totally different thing.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I think it's a different thing, and it gives you
a little bit more of perspective and that was helpful
for me.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
And I think the way I do makeup is very much,
you know, my own way and what I feel best doing,
what I like the best, of course, very different from you.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Know, Pat and you know all these Cluccia Pironi and
all these artists who are so wildly talented, but they
have it's a different.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
It's very perception and it's sort of like a thing.
And I love that, and I love getting my rocks off.
But I also I really appreciate, you know, when I've
finished someone's makeup and they're like, oh my god, I
feel so beautiful that yes, you.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Know, that's the wind, that's the wind, and.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
It feels really good. And I love that, and I love,
you know, having the ability to access something slightly different
about a person.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
That you know they may not have seen in themselves
or you know, not to be too kind.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Of get it deep, but no, I think it is deep.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
I think it is deep. Makeup is the deepest, in
my opinion, because I mean, I think coming up in
this industry and working with so many of the most
high profile people in the world, what I would say
is that the biggest celebrities I know or have worked with,
(20:56):
they are the most loyal to their makeup people, because
that is, in my opinion, the most vulnerable, right, So
they're loyal to stylist they're loyal to hair, but here
you can tweak, you can take it down if you
don't like it. Whatever. When you're putting your face out there,
that to me, that is the most personal, that is
(21:17):
the most exposed, that is the most vulnerable. And if
you don't like your makeup, you literally talk different, You
look down, don't have the confidence when they put that
camera on you, you go like this. There's a difference, right.
But what I've realized, one of the biggest testaments to you,
in my opinion, is that when I started my career
(21:38):
and was working with these people, are like early in
my career, you know, you were then the most sought after,
but it was also what I find to be the
most amazing is now twenty years later, after launching your
own brand, which I want to talk about that still today,
you're still the most for so much many, for so.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Many And the reason I want to.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Talk about that is because I do think that in
the last five to seven eight years, we've seen a
huge trend towards quite frankly, people looking unrecognizable in the
heaviness of makeup. And I think, look, I'm not here
(22:22):
to judge. I think I love makeup. You know, I
love makeup, but I think that there is a time
right now where sometimes I literally don't know who somebody
is when I first look, because I think they're actually
somebody else. I think that these faces are so painted,
and I think that's what the artist loves in God's speed,
(22:44):
and I think that's great, But I guess when I'm
turning on like let's just say Venice Film Festival, I
think it was recently, or Nicole Kimmen comes off a
boat and I believe you did her or whatever it was.
She just did a major thing where you did her
for it was you and I think a deer. Yeah,
And I was like, oh, those are my people. Like well,
(23:06):
because what I'll tell you is, at first I was like, God,
she looks unreal, Like she looks unreal, and she always
looks unreal, but like noticeably, just like the best version
of her. And then I saw that it was you
and a deer, and I was like, Okay, this makes
absolute sense to me. I'm totally unbiased, but I think
(23:26):
because she looks like the most gorgeous version of herself, right,
and I think that is your signature, and so I
want I think it's important to talk about your success
and how you've always stuck to your thing.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, I think I want to.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
Talk about that. Honestly. I think it's important because you
can lose your way right like as a hair stylist
or a stylist when there's a trend towards like whether
it's grunge or whether it's like the naked trend or whatever,
but that's not you know, if I was still styling now,
like that's not my thing. I'm not doing that right now.
How do you do that? Do you ever say, oh,
(24:04):
maybe I should.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
Do more of that or like, yeah, I for sure
I have gone through moments like that in my career
where I've thought, you know.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Oh maybe I should tweak my style a little bit,
you know, yeah, yeah, maybe I should go heavier, take
a little personality crisis, And yeah, I feel like you're.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
Such in a vulnerable position putting yourself out there all
the time with your name on something. And also, as
you said, in fashion, it can be such a harsh
environment and it can be anything but sweet and compassionate.
(24:48):
So you know, you're putting yourself out there and it's
a lot of men, and it's a lot.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Of you know, competition.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, and it's not light.
Speaker 3 (25:00):
Yeah, so there's there is a lot of that.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
So of course you have moments of self doubt. Plus well,
the addition to that.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
That's really challenging, I think for a freelance makeup artist
is that there's no guarantee how long we're going to work, how.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Much you're going to work, how if the same people
you worked with for five years will hire you ever again,
there's no and that's fine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
You can feel very good thinking about as a woman.
You know, we we like nurture. We like nurturing, you know,
you like a certain amount of safety and knowing what
to expect.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
But always being in this kind of position is hard
and I think, you know, I'll never forget. Years ago
Joe McKenna said to me years ago, I was just starting,
and he said, Oh, you're gonna be like all the
rest and you're gonna be married to your makeup bag.
And I was like, oh, no, I'm not. I'm definitely
not going to be that.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
And but you can see how it happens how because
you have to give up everything, things.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
That are not reasonable, you know, like give up your
best friend's wedding or you know, like mom's sixtieth or
something like that. It's like these things that you do
not have to ever are not breastfeeding, you know, just
those things where you're going.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
To happen to me. I had to stop breastfeeding after
three months because I was on set and I was traveling,
and I was like, I can't, I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I know.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
I remember a philist I'm not going to mention, but
had his assistant come and get me out of the
bathroom when I was.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Pumping on a Sunday doing Interview magazine a men shoot.
So it was.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
Yeah, So that that was oh, and then you just
become so then you think that, oh my god, that's
all you know, and it's.
Speaker 2 (27:14):
So crazy too. Anyways, I sort of lost my train
of thought.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
But no, it becomes harder and your and your freelance
and it's scary and people aren't nice and you start
to lose your way.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
And I think what helps with all of understanding your
style and that you possibly do have a style, which
I certainly do, and I may have been in denial
for a period of time when people would say, oh,
you're known for the most beautiful natural makeup, for.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
The natural skin and it used to be so annoying
to me. I used to think, can you not see
what else I do?
Speaker 2 (27:53):
That Mogue cover or that French Vogue or you know.
And I used to think to myself, gosh, I do
have a range, don't you see it? But it's just
what is more intuitive to me? And I think you
mature as a person and you feel more comfortable in
your own skin. All of that feels better, and it
(28:16):
feels like more something more confident than to own it. Yeah,
and and I just think.
Speaker 3 (28:24):
That over you know, the years of people telling, you know,
wanting to hire me for the skin, and you know,
I really do think that it obviously at some point
has to trickle down, even to me, like being how
sweetish having grown up in Sweden where no one's allowed.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
To take a compliment. Oh no, not, by the way,
say I don't. I don't think anyone taught it to me.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I actually think it's I just think it's women having
to be retrained to be able to take a compt lament.
I've never taken. I've never taken one and said thank you.
There's always like a defense.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
No, But why is that bad?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Why it's so interesting and feel arrogant if you just
say thank you somehow that feels arrogant.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Well I am.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have I know a girl who I actually will
never forget this, but I did her makeup and she's
not a model, but she's very beautiful and I'll never
forget I did her makeup for something.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
And I was like, gosh, she looks so beautiful. She's like,
I know, thanks, and you were like so caught up?
Good right, I don't what do you say? What's wrong
with you? No? Just it's not wild, but it's like refleshing,
you're like resinging it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
I actually think it was Kate Hudson. I will never forget.
She actually looked in the mirror and was like I'm
not good. She was like this is good, right, and
this was your maybe fifteen twenty years ago, and I
was like, they're just so confident.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I fucking love her, Like, why can't we all be
like that? What is wrong? I had so much respect
for her same.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
Yeah she can own her yeah shit, yeah she really, but.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
She does it gracefully, and she does it in a
way where it's real. She means it firing. Yes, you
know it feels kind of like yes.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Yes, yes, So I want to talk about launching your brand,
because I think that there must have been this point.
And I remember sitting at our friend's dinner outside in
East Hampton many summers ago. I want to say it
was like seventeen or eight twenty seventeen or twenty eighteen,
(30:48):
very end of summer, and we were sitting next to
each other and you were about to launch your brand,
and you were in a panic. You were so nervous.
You were like, oh my god, Rachel, I'm not I
don't like it tension. I don't the social media thing,
like I can't like do this, like I can't be
the person. I don't want to make it about me,
(31:09):
like and I want to do organic. But I then
it expires and there was all these things you were like.
I was like, creachy, this is going to be like
the best of the best. I just remember looking at
you and being like, I cannot believe you're nervous, Like
I cannot believe you're anxious because and I'll never forget
(31:29):
the conversation because you had so many questions and so
many things and all the things. And then I remember
it happening and it was like, of course, but I
imagine the thought process, and I want to hear what
made you start it was that at some point becoming
a mom and working so hard, and I think realizing
(31:53):
to your earlier point, you didn't want to be that
person married to their kid, right their make it back,
and you needed to have something that you could touch,
that was something you owned, that was something you could build, right.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
Yeah, yes I did.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
And I think that you know, you can just continue
to run the circle where you're doing advertising editorial, maybe
get a contract for five years here and there, like
you can just continue and then.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
Suddenly you're sixty and then you're like, oh, whoa. So
I did have kind of an idea on my head
when I wanted to sort of slow down running to
every single shoot, you know.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
And you were at Revlon for many years, right, you
were like the the what are your creative director?
Speaker 2 (32:45):
How do you? What are?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
You're a land home, right, I mean.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
You come first and major at Revlon is major. Yeah, well,
I mean it was a big deal.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
Good you don't play it down.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Well. I always really liked the the product aspect and
it was really rewarding to get to play with they'll,
you know, just work with the chemists and kind of
think about what is what can.
Speaker 3 (33:14):
We make that women globally will respond to and we
can actually see.
Speaker 2 (33:20):
Numbers and things. So I really found that very exhilarating,
and also just the way in which I got to
work with the chemist, especially at Landcombe. I worked so
closely with them, and I understood right away that that's
where the magic happens. You have to work directly with them.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
I didn't want to work, you know, have a person
translating stuff for me. I wanted to work in the
room with them, and so that's so they can hear
your passion and all of that so nothing gets lost.
But I did at some point of after Revlon because
social media.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
Became such a big thing. So I couldn't just, you know,
start quietly working on my own brand while at Revlon.
It'd just be possible.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
So when I finished at Revlon, I was very close
to licensing my name and for a professional line, and
the night before we were really deep in negotiations, and
the night before the final signature, I was sitting with
(34:32):
David and when we lived in Chelsea, and I said,
do you think this is right?
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Do you really think this is right? And you said,
I don't know, you get one shot, do you want
this to be the shot?
Speaker 3 (34:42):
And I was looking at the deck and there was
like a wow. The fifth year was iwear and I
was like, no, I don't.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
Think I want this to be the shot. Wow.
Speaker 3 (34:53):
Then we decided to move away from that, and it
was awkward because that Chris. It was just like a
month later we went skiing and the people that we
were supposed to do the thing with were in place.
It was like they did not want to sit anywhere
near s. Yeah, of course I decided that.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
You know, it was very it came relatively quickly. Well
it wasn't that quick, but at some point I thought, Okay,
I'm known for this skin, the quality of the skin,
and my philosophy around the skin. So I want to
create a system.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
And that's very edited, very intuitive, that's rooted in skincare
that is more. It's obviously clean, it's more, but it
also has these active skincare ingredients that are at maximum
levels the right delivery systems, so they actually do something
(35:56):
for your skin. Because I use Roseasha for a long time,
but I don't want to just you know, use foundation
to put on.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
My skin and correct it. I want to I want
to actually repair my skin right on a multitask, and
so I wanted to peel back the layers and really
work on this system and share this kind of philosophy
with women, you know, all over because I feel like
I knew how to make it easy. Sure, and of
(36:24):
course the products have to perform, the ingredients have to
be phenomenal. You know.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
We really have always worked with really premium, premium you know, formulas,
and they've all been customized for us. Nothing has been
off a shelf, nothing packaging or formula. It's everything is
always customized up until now.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
And it's still you know, one day maybe I'm hoping
we can make it easier, but it's it's not that
way yet. And I just thought that this, this could
be something, and we only have turn and turned.
Speaker 1 (37:00):
Out Guccie, that it is something. It's everywhere, well, I
mean everywhere in a good way. It's not over it's
not over distributed. It's just in all the best places.
I mean, it's and it's so good. How many products
do you have now? Approximate ten thirty sixty.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Definitely not sixty. When we met with.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Barney's, I remember, yeah, because we were launching in twenty
and eighteen.
Speaker 2 (37:27):
I feel like I kept asking you advice.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
But I remember it. I remember seeing it for the
first time.
Speaker 3 (37:33):
Yeah, and we met with Barney's and they said, oh,
you have to launch at least sixty five skews and we're.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Like, we might launch with like nine or ten or
something like that, and they were like, okay, we'll take it.
But they also because we wanted it to be refilled
from the beginning.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
Right, that's not our customer, that's not going to work here.
And then of course we couldn't launch with.
Speaker 2 (37:59):
Something that they said wasn't going to work for their customers.
So you have to sort of go back and do that,
you know, afterwards, that's okay. At least we didn't have
to go back and reformulate. We started with a really
small edit. And I remember to this day being in
Barney's the day we launched, and this woman had her
(38:20):
headphones on and she was like walking straight toward the
counter and she was talking to somebody and she was like,
where's where's the west Manttilia? I heard its launching today
and she had she had a British accent, and I
started crying because she was it. I know, I was like,
she's looking for It's like the first time you heard
(38:41):
it in the wild. Any Yes, and so I'm like,
oh my god, this is actually here in real life.
And I still get that, you know feeling, and yes,
I get.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
I feel so much validation now because there's so many
different type of women and there's so you know, many
who are so generous with coming up and just saying
different experiences they've had with different products and how they
they all almost always say that they feel their skin
quality has improved.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Wow, And we do work, you know, with serious scientists.
We're not playing around, so we're doing it definitely.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
I mean, David and I always joke you could have
never done it harder. I don't think it's foresure the
hardest way you could ever.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I mean, but by the way I mean it's I
mean you can tell the difference. You see the difference.
It's luxury. I think it's luxury makeup. I think it's
worth every I mean, I think it's absolutely fair. I
don't think it's the most or the least. I think,
but it is. It's so good.
Speaker 2 (39:49):
I have it all over my face.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I mean I probably need to touch up, but I
just you know it's like my seven am run out
the door face. But let's talk about working with your husband,
because so David is a former very very successful uh
in the fashion industry Rag and Bow and some of
you may have heard of it.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
But what made you.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Make that decision? Because we are few and far between.
Obviously I have a different outcome right now. But it's
been a great run.
Speaker 7 (40:25):
Right But but but but I think I want to
talk about it because I think there are many I
don't even want to say many.
Speaker 1 (40:36):
They're a handful of husband and wife partners that I
know and have tremendous success and it still really works.
And so I want to talk about how you made
that decision and how it's been and are their challenges
And it doesn't have to be personal, it's just more.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I mean, I think I've always held such tremendous respects
for David and his intuition, his business sense. I mean,
I feel like two a large degree. We work together
a lot at.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Rag and Bone too, right right, because I brought all
the girl all the outs, and I.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
Were also like amused for the brand too. I mean,
you know, well, I think just by nature, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
You know, yeah, I mean I feel like I helped
with some of the clothing, the perfume. I mean, you know,
it's just a lot of collaborations. So it's always been
natural to us. But then this, I don't think I
would have ever wanted to do this with anybody else
(41:45):
because there's such inherent trust.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
I know, that's what I you know, between the two
of us.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
And I respect and value his just I would never
quite any of his decisions when it comes to distribution, cadence,
when it comes.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
To of you know, if he ever raises his voice.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
On the phone with any business, any partner, I know
that there's a reason for it, because he never does that.
He's very logical, very He's just has this other it's wild.
He has a sixth sense when it comes to business.
(42:34):
And we just don't ever need to step in each
other's toes. The only thing I needed, you know, a
little prodding on earlier in the game.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
Was making decisions, you know, sooner when it came approving
colors or you know.
Speaker 3 (42:51):
But now I just I have such a much bigger
understanding for calendars, and I.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Mean this has been like that was very early days
when I would just.
Speaker 1 (43:04):
It's all learning process, that's building a business process.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
But I think he also appreciates what I bring and
we both where we both come together, which is so
fun is the packaging, you know, the look and feel
the product and what we wanted to look you know,
to look like, and we have.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
We just both had love the packaging.
Speaker 2 (43:28):
You know, we love.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Design and objects and we've always the magnet.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, I love the magnet.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
Satisfying me too. You know, we've always had this kind
of flow when it came to aesthetic.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
It's never been a point of disagreement for us at home.
It's never been It's always been I love that I love.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
We've always read.
Speaker 1 (43:55):
That's so important and so rare. I also think it's
very rare to me to find a person with a
creative eye and a business savvy that is, that is
to me in my career, in my life, that is
I have met literally maybe I could count on one hand.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
Yeah, David is very unique.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
Seriously, you know, it's it's really unique to have to
be able to wear both of those hats but still
be so respectful of your creative partner.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
If that makes it absolutely and I always feel like
David is right if he if I'm wearing an outfit
for example, Yes, what about more of a fitted top
or something?
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Love him always right, love him, you know, and I
love him. Every guy should go to a David training
school is but it's true.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
You know.
Speaker 3 (44:50):
And he's always so generous with his time, and he's
given so much advice to young designers and young business entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
He's just very knowledgeable and he's a very very good listener.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
Yeah, and he has two daughters, so I think that
also makes you an even better listener. He's got three
women in his house.
Speaker 2 (45:14):
He does have three women, that's true.
Speaker 3 (45:18):
And then put plus on our team at West Mantilia
and you're like ninety eight percent women.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I imagine we probably have Mormon than that now.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
But I think it's just very harmonious and there's just
no kind of like our values are the same.
Speaker 2 (45:35):
He's English, I grew up in Sweden.
Speaker 3 (45:38):
I'm half Swedish, and he wants we both stand for quality,
and we wanted to always create something that was different
and would stand the test of time, and that wouldn't
be just you know, a cash project that we just
do and be done. You know a lot of brands
(46:00):
are like I see them, they've been around for a
couple of years, they're already for sale, and it's like
boom boom boom, aractional And I just feel like we're
not those kind of people. And I think it's we're
creating the brand that is the closest that possibly could
be to the two of us, of course, with the
(46:21):
brilliant team that we have, but I think it it
really couldn't be any other way if it was the
two of us doing it the you know, in a
matter that we wanted to, you know, where we decide.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
What is the dream Gucci in terms of like, so
you're building this brand, and what's great is you likely
get to still pick and choose what you do in
terms of how you work with different clients, because you
do still do a lot with Anne Hathaway or Nicole
Kimmen or whomever. But I think like, as you continue
to build Westmintilier, like what is do you think about?
(46:59):
Like do you just want to keep perfecting the twenty products?
Are you like, Okay, can't wait to launch skin or
I'm just going to expand the range or like is
there I mean you kind of already answered this, You're
not really going at this as a in three years,
we want to sell this for X. It's sort of like,
let's continue to build the dream. We love what we're doing.
(47:20):
It's doing really well. But like, do you guys talk
a lot or do you like about what's next? Or
do you just keep living in the moment and keep
kind of doing what you're doing, Because I'm sure the girls,
you know, I mean, you have three children, a son
and two daughters, all just magnificent. Are you like, oh
my god, I want the kids to work in this
(47:42):
or you just don't even think about that.
Speaker 2 (47:45):
I Mean sometimes I think both of us do think
that we want to you know, leave a brand that
it is rooted integrity, and we'll be around and bigger
and better when they you know, come of age and
so you know, they can feel proud.
Speaker 3 (48:06):
And I think that's always been our goal, is to
create something we all feel that our children that we
would want our children to you know, to the girls
to be able to use and not worry that they're
going to get, you know.
Speaker 2 (48:20):
Some sort of disease from the ingredient. You know, I
think that that's honest, that's all been a goal.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
But you know, we are we do talk a lot
obviously about the business and about you know, life and
quality of life, and I do think there's there's a balance,
you know, being realistic but also knowing you know, that
some things may at some point need to shift.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Slightly to be able to do bigger and better things.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I feel that we absolutely are just getting warmed up
since we have now two skincare pure skincare products, we're
you know, launching, We're working on more. We we have
a few other categories that we're entering, and I do
feel that it's kind of nice because I've always been
(49:18):
interested in style and you know, lifestyle both you know,
wellness and home and all.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
Of those things. I think there is a little bit
of space to kind of explore brand. Yeah, because because
I'm not just you know, a fashion makeup artist. Of course,
I'm living my you know, the brand lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (49:47):
It's the Gucci Westman lifestyle. It's the Westman ittiliate lifestyle,
which is even Yeah, I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I see it, but I also see it because.
Speaker 1 (49:57):
I think, I don't know, I don't I look at
you as obviously like an iconic makeup artist, but I
weirdly more see you as like you the person as
the brand because you're someone that also people want to
show up at big events and wear great clothes and
have your own style. And I also think as you
(50:19):
expand your skincare, it's exciting because I do think that
taking what you are known for that's not a bad thing.
It's always great to be known for something. It doesn't
mean you can't diversify and be known for a lot
of things. But I think if you're going to be
known for beautiful skin, I mean that's a pretty great
thing to be known as as a makeup artist because
in my opinion, that's the most important thing you can
(50:42):
be great at. You know, when it comes to that's
it the biggest organ for God's sake.
Speaker 2 (50:48):
That's the money, that's the ticket.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
Literally, it's that is My most biggest obsession is the skin.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
And you know, I'll never forget. David and I had
dinner with Bobby Brown and her husband.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Stevens, the coolest, coolest And this was years before we launched,
and I remember, you know, she was like, let me
you got to launch a brand and I was like, well,
I and I was really struggling when I got my office.
David was like, the ideas will come to you. And
Bobby was like, the ideas will.
Speaker 2 (51:21):
Come to you like pull out tear sheets, and I
was like twiddling my I was like, no ideas are
coming to me. But I said to her, I think
I want to actually do skincare. I want to launch
with skincare, because that's that's I'm so passionate about skincare.
(51:42):
But I've always kind of combined skincare and makeup. And
she said that was ridiculous. I'm known for makeup. I
need to launch with a makeup, you know, wine and
And so I think that now it's we've done We've
done it well, and.
Speaker 1 (51:58):
You're in control of it with your name on it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And I think that all of the color products are
rooted in skincare, and they are. You know, we do
have clinical studies on the products, and it's just nice
just to show that it's not like a pivot, it's
not a marketing exept. Of course, my friend, this has
been how I grew up on an aschrom No meat,
(52:29):
It's like, this is a real deal meat. Now, No, so.
Speaker 1 (52:33):
You've never eaten meat like your whole life, that's how
you were raised. Yeah, I'm obsessed, like before it was cool.
Speaker 2 (52:41):
Before it was cool. It was definitely not cool when
I was suffering in Sweden eating meals for lunch.
Speaker 1 (52:49):
Does it make you feel better? I haven't eaten meat
since I was sixteen, where it was cool. And I
did not grow up in an ashram and come from
the biggest family of carnivores you've ever like and still now,
like flai grass, like steak tarted. I mean, you name it.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
A little cute mom.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
They love me. My whole family loves me.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
They love me.
Speaker 1 (53:10):
They think I'm like a mental patient.
Speaker 3 (53:14):
I do think that a little bit. It has to
do with your body type. And if you're you know,
you're what, you need something.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
And I don't think I could have meat, to be.
Speaker 1 (53:26):
Honest, you couldn't if you've never had it, I don't
know would know what to do.
Speaker 2 (53:31):
Yeah, Like pedal is so weird with.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
You know, even fish now she's like, doesn't she gets
so worried about the fish and I'm you know, And
and Dashes really mean to her because like a few
years ago, she went through the stage of wanting to
try chicken noodle soup, and Dash would say to her
in Spanish because she speaks Spanish to her nanny. He
would say, oh, the chicken died and the noodles, but
(54:00):
in Spanish, you know, so it sounded oho and lad,
and so she's like every anyways, well, I'm obsessed and
my listeners cannot here, cannot see your dewey skin right now,
(54:22):
But like she has, I'm looking at Gucci right now
and her her cheeks have this gorgeous like glow and
dew on them.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Can I tell is that?
Speaker 1 (54:32):
Please tell me? Is it baby cheeks? What is it?
Speaker 5 (54:34):
It's this really beautiful, bright, bluish futia and it just
brightens really action, and when you see it in the
in a compact.
Speaker 3 (54:47):
You're like, oh, I don't know about that, but when
you put it on the skin, it's like it looks.
Speaker 1 (54:54):
So that's something to talk about, because I do think
so many people, for us, like sim billions that look
at makeup and we're like, okay, we know the bronzie,
we know the pinky, we know whatever. But you see,
to your point, something that might look like a fuchho
or a blueish whatever, You're like, no, not for me,
(55:16):
not for me, but it might be, But then it
might be, and it becomes.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
Completely for you once you see what it does to
your skin. It's so flattering on.
Speaker 3 (55:27):
I like eighty I would say every single person that
I've put it on, they're like, oh my god, well.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
Fouci, I think you're going to have to do that
on social You're going to have to show that because
I think you should show that, Like, oh, you think
this won't work on you?
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, Oh that's a good idea, yes, Rachel, not just
a really cute grace.
Speaker 1 (56:00):
Okay. I want to thank my beautiful friend Gucci for
being on the pod today. I mean, Gucci is you know,
she's this sort of like quiet force. She's got this
extraordinary story. She is incredibly humble. She has been one
of the most sought after makeup artists since I started
(56:23):
in two thousand and two thousand and three. We met
working with a mutual client and friend many many months ago,
and to now see her still being booked for the
biggest celebrities in the world twenty years later, and having
launched the most beautiful cosmetic line westmin Antilier that is
(56:44):
all over sold all over the world, and it's so good.
I am so obsessed with it. It's always in my
bag and always on my vanity and just hearing Gucci's story,
which I didn't even really know even more than half of,
was so incredible and so so unbelievably inspiring. I hope
(57:06):
you loved this episode as much as I did. Okay,
thank you so much for listening to Clembian Heels. If
you haven't already, please subscribe to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
the iheartapp, or wherever you get your podcasts so you
don't miss a single episode this season. And be sure
to follow me on Instagram at Rachel Zoe and the
show at cleming in Heils pod for the latest episodes
(57:29):
and updates. I will talk to you soon.
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