April 28, 2023 • 44 mins
This week, Rachel Zoe is joined by one of the most sought after colorists for the stars, the incredibly talented Tracey Cunningham. Tracey is such a trailblazer in the hair industry and truly made her own path in the field. She might even be the hardest working woman in the beauty industry!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:28):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Keels. This show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. With me, we have
one of the most well known, sought after colorists in
the world for the stars, the incredibly talented Tracy Cunningham.
(00:52):
Tracy is beyond a trailblazer in the hair industry and
truly forged her own path in the crazy world of hair.
She might be quite possibly one of the hardest working
women in the beauty industry, and she is beyond hilarious
and so incredibly kind. I've known her for what feels
(01:13):
like half my life, and Tracy is just so impressive
and she's worked so hard. I'm so excited for you.
All to listen. And I think if you know about
hair color, you know of Tracy Cunningham. So let's get
started and you're going to really enjoy this one. I
(01:34):
think it's important for people to learn that things don't
happen overnight. Success doesn't happen overnight. I've never seen it
happen actually in my whole life, and that because they
see you here, Tracy Cunningham, the most well known brilliant
hair color is I'm going to say in the world.
You'll fight me on that because I know you, but
I'm just going to say that. And I've been fortunate
(01:57):
to know you for many, many years. I know hundreds
of people that have you color their hair and love
and adore you as family and friend and will go
to no one else. And so I think for me,
it's very important to talk to you because you're a
very behind the scenes person and you're I also think
that historically hair colorless are not as talked about and
(02:23):
known as hair stylists per se. It's just because when
you're doing a red carpet, they're like the makeup artists,
the stylist, the manicurist, and the hairstylist. They're not like,
oh wait, who did the hair color? But I think
in the case of miss Tracy Cunningham, you know she does.
I'm going to argue to say a massive majority of
(02:45):
the color you see on the red carpet and has
done for years. But I think the thing that I
do want to talk about a bit later is that
you are the most supportive artist. You support the people
that you mentor you help them grow. And I'm going
to use Bryce Scarlett, but we'll talk about that later
because you know, he used to do my blow drys
(03:06):
when you colored my hair, and he's now like, you know,
the stylist to the stars doing Marco Robbie and you know,
I could name another, you know, whole handful of incredible
women that he does, but we talk about you know,
he owes that to you because you know you nurtured
that talent. So I do want to start a little
(03:26):
bit at the beginning because I think that's important, and
I also like to really embrace how you sort of
grew up and how that impacted who you are now.
First of all, where did you grow up? I grew
up to Washington and then and like how so, okay,
were you a good student? Were you shy? Were you
like outgoing and bubbly. I kind of feel like I
(03:47):
know the answer to this, but hit me with it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I was never a good student ever. I really tried.
I remember every year at the beginning of the year,
I would, you know, you get all your new peachees
and you know, your organizer and everything, and I was like,
this year, I'm going to be so good. I'm going
to do all my homework. I'm going to do everything
that I have to do to be successful. And I
could never do it. It just wasn't my brain right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And that's okay. I'm going to argue to say that
seventy percent of the women I've had on here said
that they were horrific students, not just not good, but horrific.
But that's okay because everybody's a different learner. And I
think the time we're living and now, children that learn
in a million different ways are nurtured and celebrated and supported.
So I think when we all grew up that was
(04:33):
not the case. You were a student or you weren't,
and there wasn't really a middle ground, right.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
But I had an Asian mom, like I really wanted
to do well.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And So was there a lot of pressure then from
mom to do well or was she just supportive and
was like, no, you're going to find your way.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You know what. My grandpa was really good about it.
He really wanted me to do well, obviously, but I
think he understood. I think he just understood it wasn't me,
right and my mom too. Right, Okay, did you have
a ton of friends? Were you like super social? So
social you were?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh? Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Like I feel like I could have run for mayor
and like really for sure and I would have won.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And so were you like okay? So then all right,
so you're in let's just say you're in junior higher
high school, right, So what's next? Are you like, I'm
going to college or no freaking why I want to
start working?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay? So, first of all, people don't just go to
beauty school in Seattle. Everyone goes to college, you know, sure,
real college town. It's how my family all got to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
My grandfather went to the University of Washington and stayed.
My dad went to the University of Washington and stayed.
And so that's how we got to Seattle. From my
mom's side and my dad's side.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh yeah. But I went to the principal and I said, look,
I really love doing hair, and I wish that you
had one of those programs where, you know, you could
let the student go work at the field that they
want to they want to work in that they're interested in,
(06:06):
you know, at the end of the day. So he
made that program for me.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
When you were in high school. That's incredible. Yeah, he
didn't look at you like you're crazy, what are you
asking for?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes, it was great. I just I just asked for it,
and he and everyone was so excited because it wasn't
just me that to do it, it was everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That's incredible. Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So then, okay, so we went to Evergreen College on
certain days. Other days, we got to pick a place
where we would work, and I chose Gene Morrez, which
was it still is a salon in Seattle, used to
be in all the Nord drums and in four seasons.
And I got to work there after school and I
(06:50):
thought it was the coolest person ever. And I was
doing the laundry and I was offering people tea and
coffee when they came, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Were that cute girl that was like Can I get
you tea? Can I get you water?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I like to say that I was the housekeeper, you
know I was, but I thought I was the ship.
I was the housekeeper and I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
That's it incredible, That's literally incredible. It wasn't was technically
an internship trace or no, like not really it was.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Of course it was an internship.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What were you paid? No?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, no no, it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Was part of part of the school. I got it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah. I got to leave at fourth period, take the
bus downtown and go work at g Mores.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That is it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But you know what it is, Rachel, just being around
people that are creative help you understand your creativity and
you just get pumped, you know, like I can say
that when I'm around you, I want to dress better,
I want to be you. I want to wear everything
(07:59):
that you wear.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I love you, but you're the freaking cutas. And every
time I see you, all I go is Jesus, I
need new hair color, Jesus I need.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I'm in love with this sequence soup that Rachel domakes.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I have to get you one of those. By the way,
It's so interesting, Chase, because when I think about it,
you know, people always ask me how I started, and
I was like, and how did you know that you
were going to do this? I said, I'll be honest,
I didn't even know being a stylist was a job.
I just remember showing up, being paid literally next to nothing,
being hired to work like less than three days a week,
(08:34):
and I worked like seven. I went in on weekends,
I like asked for the keys. I would just go in.
And it was because I loved being in it. I
loved being around it. It made me feel like whole,
it like it just got me so excited about everything.
And I think as we get older in our life
and our careers, you actually forget that feeling. I think
(08:56):
of that. It's almost like when you start dating somebody,
right and you're in the honeymoon. It's like that same
kind of feeling. So here you are, you're washing hair
towels and doing laundry. You're bringing customers to, my guess
is very fancy women. Likely because this is a very
fancy salon.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yes, but it's also Seattle, right, So.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
There you are. You're like, I can't believe I'm here.
I love being around people. This is my like, I'm
so excited, right, now, okay, so what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So what happened was, honestly, when I was about to graduate,
everyone was like, what are you going to do? What
are you going to do? And I was embarrassed to
say I was going to go to beauty school for
some reason, because I felt like everybody else was, it's
not college, it's not college college. So I tried college
and it wasn't for me, and I moved to California.
(09:50):
I lived in La Joya. I worked at a real
estate company. Okay, and I worked for a real estate
person and then his name was I worked as an
assistant for a moment for this guy Mike Bruno, who
actually started First Dips.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I know I haven't talked to him since I was
his assistant, but literally I was telling somebody the story
that I used to work for this guy, this real
estate guy in San Diego, and he was so cute
and he was in his twenties and we just I
just loved it, and I was Bruno he started First Dips.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I'm like, wow, well right exactly, like yay everyone, yeah,
hey lo everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah. I always loved surrounding myself with either smart are
really creative people just honestly, no one between right'. I
don't have time for these other people. Like I love it.
I love kooky people and I love really smart people.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
It makes so much sense. Okay, so you moved to
La Joya, you're working in real estate, and then how
do you trip into like hair world? What happens?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Then I moved to Los Angeles and I started working.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
At La Models, okay, and I know it's crazy, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They started doing this other thing at La Models, my god, headhunters.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And so I started working on that side okay, and
the person next to me hated me and he got
me fired, and there were like traces not doing her work.
I was like, yeah, I am, I'm doing the best
I can at this desk job, and I swear. And
then I got a job at a PR firm.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You literally did all of this before you got to hair.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
This is oh yeah, Well keep in mind, I'm not
keeping jobs from me right O.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wait, how old are you at this point? Trace? Are
you like twenty nineteen nineteen? Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Okay, okay, So I've a little lived a very long
wife in like two years. So then I got fired.
I went to a PR agency, trying to remember the
name of the agency. It's a big one. And then
I got a job working for Bet Midler as nan queen,
as a nanny. And I said to her, look, i
could do this for about a year and then I've
(12:02):
got to move on. But I just thought, what a
great job to have.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Hold. You got a job working as a nanny to
Brett Midler. I mean I think we just slipped up
pause for a second. Okay, yeah, I mean Bette Midler's
like the queen. Okay, okay, So what happens.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So her hairdresser, Robert Ramos would come over all the time,
and I would go hang out at a stilo all
the time. And I mean Teddy Antline and Chris McMillan
and Robert all these great people.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
These are like legends of hairstylists and hair world and
hair stylists for celebs, photo shoots, fashion everything. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, so I knew Chris McMillan before he was Chris McMillan.
I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And then we had this huge earthquake and by the way,
pregnant while I was working for Bet.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Oh my gosh. Then let me mention. I got pregnant
while I was a nanny for Bett Midler.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I'm wonder for movies for the boys. I was working
for Bet, going to a stilo all the time. When
Robert wasn't around, I would do BET's.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Hair, ah, got it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I went to cook. Yeah, I just did so much.
I would cook. And it was the best job.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
It's the best job. You will never learn more than
when you are someone's nanny, your personal assistant, or family assistant.
You will do literally every job imaginable and figure out
what it is that you love to do. I say, my.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Dream is being like a full time mom. That's all
I ever wanted to be. So it was a great job.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Ye. And then we have this huge earthquake and Bett
decided to move to New York.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And so I got another job working for another celebrity.
And Bet said, I don't want you to schleppin for
anyone else. You need to go to beauty school.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So, oh my god, I love her.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There was this whole thing. But then she paid for
me to go to beauty school.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Of course she did.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
See, these these are the people, Tracy that we I
mean yours of course happens to be Bett Midler. But
like it's not like you didn't pay your dues prior
to that. But I mean, that's that's what you call
like a gift mentor that not only sees your starry
eyes and your drive and your talent, but says, Okay,
I'm going to help you take the next step. That's
(14:21):
like the dream.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And also obviously I was like a really hard work.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, of course she wouldn't have done it.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Oh, and which it was great because I could work
while I was going to school. And you know, she
thinks of the full picture. She didn't just say i'll
pay for your beauty school. She said I'll pay for
your beauty school and I'll pay for Max's daycare. Yeah,
truly blessed. And her daughter was best friends since they
were five years old. With Lily Aldridge. Really and you know,
(14:52):
Chris McMillan had the Rachel and I had the Lily Cambre.
Oh my god, yes, And I guess that that is
a really a real natural hair color that just happened.
I mean you could see it in all the children
that you see see the natural and everyone says, oh
my gosh, I wish I had those highlights. Well, when
Lily was like I think she was sixteen or seventeen, she.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Did, I met them for you, by the way, I
met right for you. Right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
She did the cover of Mexico Vogue Mexican Vote, and
they dyed her hair dark, and she always had a
little ombre naturally, so even though the hair color was around,
it was you know, you could see different people with
this hair color because it was a natural occurring hair color.
(15:39):
But I did it on Lily and she has such
dark hair and it just was such a hit. I
remember Jacqueline Jarrett came in from Nylon magazine. Do you
remember when? Of course she walks into the salon and
she says, okay, what do you have for me? What's new?
What's going on? And I said, okay, well everyone's obsessed
with Lily Aldrich's hair color. She said, I don't know
(16:00):
who Lily Aldridge is. And I was, oh, okay, never mind.
So I said, what do you want to do to
your hair? Jacqueline. She pulls out the cover of Marie
Claire magazine and it has both my clients on it,
Jennifer Garner and Jessica Biale. And you open it up
and in the middle this ten page something of the
(16:21):
most beautiful pictures colors of Lily Aldridge's hair, and I said, bitch,
that's the photo that everyone's like, what and we laughed
so hard.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So that's mombre. That's not bronde, right, different? No, okay,
totally totally different. And for those of you that don't
know Lily Aldridge, she is a longtime supermodel, one of
the very famous faces of Ralph Lauren. She's a huge
model and mom, I'm amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Personal Yeah, yeah, she's amazing, And everybody wanted her hair
and then they and then it started going into like
dip dye and all this crazy stuff. But it was
amazing because I mean, I was successful.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But it's nice I turn the corner. Sure, yeah, nice
to have a signet show. Oh my god, Tracy, that's
so crazy. It's so interesting though, because you're also so
famous for blondes. Every shade of blonde. I think brunette
is such a challenge, and every brunette I know is like,
should I go blonde? I'm like, no, there's this huge
(17:25):
beautiful gray area between you know that. I think you've
really created trace and I think that's your signature. But
I feel like everyone feel like you're the Queen Tracy,
Like everyone just is like no.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
But I think that so many people become blonde toholics
and they get too blonde. And it was a really
nice thing, the ombre, because it was it really it
gave brunettes an opportunity of blonde and brunette at the
same time. Of course, and then you know, I have
(17:58):
all my famous redheads.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes you do, Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Listen. I just think, as a colorist, you should try
to be good at all the colors.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yes, you should be. Yes, you need to be great
at all the colors.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You shouldn't be blinds or brunette.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I agree. To be honest, Tracy, I don't think about
you as one thing at all. I think of you
as the everyone. Every manager, every agent, every bubblicist just
would always this is like me and my styling life.
They'd be like, Okay, she's going to go to Tracy
today and then she'll be at the fitting afterwards. So
she's going from Platinum to Brunett for this part. So
(18:37):
she's going to be at Tracy a while. It was
always like the Tracy chapter and then like send to us,
you know, do you wake up ever and go because
I remember coming to the salon for you, and it
was like every week it got more and more and
bigger and bigger, and more people want to Tracy, and
more people want to Tracy, and more people want to Tracy.
(18:57):
And at any point where you just like, oh my god,
I'm going to lose my mind because I never I
never sense that from you. I never sense a lack
of gratitude for where you are. I also always still
see this sparkle in your eye that no matter how
tired you are, even if you've colored forty people in
a day, or you did a twenty four hour trip
(19:17):
to New York to go do someone before a big event,
you always are still like kind of laughing and giggly
and you're sort of like even if you're delirious, but
you still show how much you love and appreciate what
you're doing. I mean, that's how I always feel around you.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, I'm going to go back to I was the
housekeeper at a salmon to start off.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Is everybody listening because this is what we talk about
when you when we say pay your dues, pay your dues,
and you will be grateful life forever.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I did the Powells and I offered people market spice
tea or coffee water, and I thought it was the
best job in the world. And then now I get
to be one of those people that I was so
in love with.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yep, so I'm flying high.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
You know, being so busy, and I was a single mom,
so I never I never dreamt as big as I.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Got, sure if I did.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I just want to do well too. I just wanted
to be able to pay my rent and you know,
feed my kid and take them on vacation, you know,
pay for school.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So so I mean, I'm pretty sure we've really surpassed
that by a landslide. And I did.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
But I never said no. I never said no. Always
worked really hard and still no way. I know that
there are some people that that will say to me, still,
you have to have boundaries, and I'll say to them,
I'm in the service business. If you want to be
successful in the service business, you can't have boundaries. And
(20:50):
it's really nice to be on a show like this
and you're blowing me up, but I'm going to be
honest with you, Rachel, I'm not you know. I mean,
I'm very popular, but I'm not. You know, youeople are
like celebrity colors. I get embarrassed, well because I'm because
I work for a living. I do hair for a living.
I don't, you know, I'm not. I'm not a genius,
you know what I mean. So I'm not. I would
(21:12):
argue that I'm not whatever. I'm not a singer. I'm not,
you know. I color hair for a living, and I honestly,
I see so many, you know, hairdressers that get such
big heads, and I honestly don't like it. Yeah, I
kind of get disgusted by them. And I think you
need to keep your feet on the ground and remember
(21:34):
that you are in the service business and you're here
to serve. And I'm super happy about that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
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Can I tell you something funny, Trace, There's a reason
(24:19):
we've been connected friends for many years, and that is
the fact that I say the exact same thing at
least once a day that I think there is this
big confusion and movement now where like, yes, I ended
up on the other side, not because that was the plan.
It just kind of happened, and I will always be
more comfortable behind. But I will say that the thing
(24:40):
I scream at the top of the mountains. Is that
when you are a colorist, a stylist, a hairstylist, a manicurist,
makeup artist, you're providing a service. And it's so interesting
what you said because I never had boundaries. I didn't
have a boundary until I had my kids. Honestly, I
(25:01):
remember I didn't. And what you just said to me
is so profound because I don't know other than to
myself and to my team, when I'm just like, there
are no boundaries because if you don't say yes, someone
else is right. If you don't answer that phone, there's
someone else's right. And like, if you're okay with that,
then fine, make your boundaries. But just know no one
(25:22):
waits for anybody, and you are a service and you're
providing a service. And when people used to say, oh,
richid 'or this, you're that. No, I'm dressing people, I'm
styling people, I'm creating an image with people. This is
this is a process, and this is a service. And
I think over the last ten years, even the last five,
I mean, there is just there are a lot of
(25:42):
people in this industry who are getting a bit confused.
And I think that you think it's Internet. Yes, our
whole group that we all sort of grew up with.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Aren't like that.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
No. I think it's partly the Internet where everyone can
be their own you know, celebrity and advocate and promote
their own self and their brands and things like that.
And then I also think that there's a lot more
support from the talent, so meaning, you know, I always
tell the stylists now, I'm like, you guys have no
idea Like I didn't. There wasn't There was never a
(26:14):
thing where I would ask a client to be on
a cover of a magazine with me, let alone post
in a photo with me, or like do an interview
on my behalf. You know, that would have had to
have gone through five different people to happen, do you
know what I mean? So, I think it's just a
different time. And I think the one great thing is
how supportive the actual many of the actual celebrities and
(26:37):
talent are supporting their teams and advocating for their stylists
and their hair and their makeup, and you know, giving
them so much public love. I think that's really kind.
I just didn't grow up that way, and I think
that's why there wasn't confusion as to who is fun
what side. But I think to your point, people do
(26:57):
get inflated and they do lose their way. And I
think in that that's my whole point about you is
I think you are such a success because when I
see you working and when I see you with your clients,
it's like there is no confusion as to your role
in this equation, right. But I do think I'm still
going to argue with you and say that you are,
in my opinion, the most well known hair colors in
(27:18):
the world, because I don't I think when people say
Tracy Cunningham, I don't I think anyone who knows hair
color and what that is, they'll say, oh my god,
Jaycey Hunningham. Right, And you can take that as you will,
But I think it's also led to incredible opportunities in
your creative consultant to Oliplex and Redkin and you know,
all of these amazing products that you know. I would
arguably say that Oliplex did change the texture of my hair.
(27:39):
I would say that, and I actually didn't even know
you had anything to do with it as a consultant
or any anything otherwise. But I mean, how do you
feel now do you approach work differently in terms of
like do you say like because I know Jenakin now,
like she literally has certain days that she says, these
are for my kids, here's days that you can reach me.
She has it very scheduled. I'm like, you do like,
(28:01):
I wouldn't even know how to do that. I wouldn't
even know how to be like, don't call me today,
call me tomorrow, because today is not a day where
I can talk to you.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yes, I feel like Gen's always been good like.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
That, I know, but I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
So Yesterday I got to my client's house at six
point thirty.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And am or pm. Yeah, okay, And.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
They thought for sure that I'd been resting all day
because it was Sunday, but no, I had the salon
yesterday all day long. Of course we were doing eleven people,
so of course you are. And it was all because
I couldn't say no, and I didn't have any room
to put them in any other days. So I just said,
you know what, guys, let's just open up Monday our Sunday.
(28:45):
And my assistant said, I thought we were only going
in for two people, but I kept adding it because
people kept texting me and.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I kept saying yes, trade.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
But I will say this. I will say this, I
have trained a lot of amazing, amazing hair color.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is yes, and I've just used one and plan to
use her again because Ashley, she's incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
She's very especial. Me too. But you know, COVID changed me.
COVID totally changed me where not my work ethic. But Rachel,
you know you saw me do on a regular day,
it would be like forty people.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh yeah, no, actually holidays.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Would be more like fifty. And you're like, how do
you do fifty people a day? Because a lot of
them are bases, right, Because I don't just do celebrities.
I do a lot of women with gray hair.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Also, you do a lot of women that are I
would like to go on record and say Tracy does
a lot of non famous people that are just amazing women,
a lot, a lot, a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And people are like, you should give up your regular people.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And now you're not that person, No way, no way.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I mean I've known these people since before they had children,
since before they got married, since before you know. I mean,
you just don't get rid of people that have stuck
by you for twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
But hear that listeners. Here's that listeners.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, thirty years, twenty five years. So during COVID, imagine
I'm an athlete, because I mean people can't do that
kind of work, like standing on their feet all day long,
and what I do is okay. So if I start
at nine and someone calls me and says I need
to be squeezed in and I already have thirty five people,
what am I going to do? Well? I add them
(30:31):
at eight thirty obviously, and then the next person I
ad them at eight, and then the next person, I'm like, oh,
you can't do early morning, okay, So my last client's
at five. I'll take you at five thirty, you know, So,
oh you have face color, come at four and then
I'll do your highlights at five, you know. I mean
I'm constantly juggling and making every trying to make everybody happy,
and so it was like I was an Olympic athlete,
(30:54):
training every single day for the fucking you know.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I've sign it, I've seen it in it's mental.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Soh COVID, COVID. All of a sudden, I'm forced to
sit in my room for seventy three days, like never
going out of my house. I mean, not even Jlo
was getting her base color done. I was sending everybody
their base colors.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh, I learned to I learned to bump my base
in COVID. I did yeah, I did yeah. And I
had Skyler, my oldest son, do the back Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I face timed with j Lo and Mariah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Carey casual me too.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Face it, and I FaceTime with Ellen DeGeneres because I
had to color to her so she could do Porscha's hair,
I swear, But I did not leave the house. And
it was crazy, and I slowed down, like if you're
an Olympic athlete and you don't train every single day.
(31:51):
We got back to work and we're like it was
dasted to doing ten people exhausted. And the greatest gift
of all was my assistants who did go back to
work after the seventy three days, and some of them
would have to go and do bass during those days.
They all went on the floor. They all created relationships
(32:14):
that are relationships with my clients, and they now do
a lot of my clients and it's so awesome and
they're all doing so well.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Isn't that incredible? And you're like the mama bear, right.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yes, and it makes me so happy because they're all
killing it.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yep, I love it. I want to quote that. So
it makes you so happy that they're all killing it
and they're loyal to you, they are grateful to you,
and they learned from you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yes, I love it. Just makes me so happy because
all you want for everybody else to do well around you.
You don't want to be the only one.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
No, of course, except I just you know, for me,
part of the reason I had to pause from styling
was because I just it didn't work for me. I
didn't have magical people like you. I had the people
that do the opposite, hired the people that take the clients, run,
stab you in the back and leave. I had. I
had a handful, of course, yeah, exactly. I mean, listen,
it's it's hard, but I think the fact is this
(33:12):
has been blood, sweat and tears. Was Have you ever
woken up and been like, I can't do it anymore?
Or do you still wake up now and go I
love what I do. I love what I do, and
I've found a healthier way to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well. I don't know if it's healthier, but I do.
I do less people during the day but I'm still
working almost every single.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Day and you still love it. You still love it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I do. I still love it. If I didn't love it,
I would I would not do it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
By the way, That's what I always said. That's that's
why I had to pause from styling, because I said,
if I can't wake up and remember why I love this,
I have to pause, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
So I wake up every morning and I'm like in
a panic, like what am I doing today?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
What time do I start?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You know, By the way, it's like that salon like,
it's that salon panic. It's the eating while you're standing
running in the back shoving a sandwich face. Yes, love
you so much, Tracy. I think you're a living legend,
quite frankly, and your energy is very loving, your talent
is beyond I know a lot of the celebrities that
(34:17):
you do, and I know a lot of the everyday
women that you do, and they all love you and
appreciate you the same, to be honest, And so my
question for you really is you're obviously, in my opinion
from where I sit, you're probably living beyond your dreams
at this point. Just your life in general. Nothing to
change your money just you know. Yeah, I think, as
(34:37):
you said earlier, I think it's like your goal was
to feed your son as a single mom, pay your
rent and be able to take him on vacation and
sent h to school. Yes, and now you are really
just at the top. And it was so important to
have you on. And when I started this podcast months ago,
I was like, I really want to have Tracy on.
And I think it's because people don't recognize the importance
(34:58):
of hair colorists and hair artists, hair geniuses. And I
think people don't talk about the talent behind enough. And
when I think of hair color I think of you.
So I've had the view from the inside, and I think,
just like your story, your journey, I mean it was hard.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yes, it was very hard. I've cried many nights.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
And so your advice to young Tracy, to young people,
or even not young, just people that are like, hey,
I love doing hair I may want to consider doing this,
I want to pivot. Or my kids have just left
for college and I've always been great at hair styling
or coloring. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I would say, find somebody really good to assist and work.
Just please remember I don't care how big you get
on Instagram. Please remember that you are in the service business,
and remember that the best way to get clients is
through referrals. And you know, it's funny because I don't
(35:57):
take anybody from the front desk, and I haven't for years.
I would say about ten years, Like you call my salon,
I do not. You cannot book an appointment with me.
But if you know somebody that knows me and you say, like, oh, Rachel,
if you called me and said, oh, my housekeeper put
black all over her hair, can you please take her
on Monday? And I would say, yes, right, I don't
(36:19):
care who is I just want to make sure that
that someone can vouch for them.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
That's so interesting. That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And the only thing I ask, I don't ask like
what do they do or whatever?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I say, crazy, right, right, crazy.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I just don't want crazy, Okay, is it? But I like,
I don't mind. And my assistance, you know, every once
in a while, because I gave so many clients away
during COVID, and you know, because I really wanted to
build all of my old assistants, and so every once
in a while we'll take a new client and I
always say to my assistants, I'm taking this client because
(36:55):
I want to make sure you have people to take
you know, when you go on. So yeah, but I honestly,
I just want people to stay grounded, get a good education,
try to take classes. Redkin has classes which are great.
You can also get a lot of great online classes.
(37:16):
You just have to become really good at your craft.
And when I knew I was successful, Rachel, I knew
I was when I would have moms and daughters, sisters,
you know, those kind of referrals or groups of friends
would all come to me. You know, that's the biggest compliment.
And then of course now we have Instagram and that's
(37:40):
a good way to do it, you know, but you know,
it's still still hard to build. And you know, you
just have to be very consistent and listen to your
client and if they say, you know, I'm not sure
if I like my hair, you know, don't get upset
you didn't, you know, just fix it. That's what I
love about color. You can fix anything.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You know. That's actually a really good point because when
I watch people do color, it is actually a science.
It's like a chemistry experiment. Every single time in my
opinion when I'm watching it and I'm like, God, there's
so much margin for error here. To me, that would
be so stressful. But to your point, it's like you
(38:21):
can change it. You can change it, and you can
fix it. And I think that when you're an artist,
no matter what kind of artists, but when you're working
with people and they're hiring you to do something, there
is this thing where you know, I think you hear
about artists that have tantrums and they're like, if you
don't like it, go somewhere else, right, So I think
another really great takeaway here is basically like you did it.
(38:44):
They're saying we don't love it. I don't love it,
and you say, okay, let's talk about it. Let's fix it.
You listen to them novel idea trace right.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I'll listen to my assistants talking to my clients. They're
blow drying their hair to check and this assistant saying, no,
it's really good, it's really good. But do you think
it's too stripey or whatever. I don't know what there's
And I always say, let's just let's fix it right now.
And I'll say to my assistant, look, you have to
(39:14):
listen to the client. The client's saying that they don't
like it when they're in your chair. Imagine what's going
to happen when they go home as all of their
friends if they like you know, you ask everybody, wait,
what do you think? What do you think of my hair?
I think it's this and they're all going to you know,
and then you're going to have to come back and
do it anyway, So just do it then fix it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It's so true. My god, my god, Jacy, It's so true. Also,
I do want to note Jessica Biel's hair colors epic
like it actually is. That she's so beautiful. It's actually
mental how beautiful she is. But that hair, that gorgeous hair,
it really just and the cheek bones and all of it. Yes,
but like, yes, you know well, I love you, Trace,
(39:55):
I love your story, I love your success, I love
how nurturing you are, love what a mama bear you are.
I love that you've been this badass, single mom, working
your fucking ass off. But I also love watching you
help other people win because that's rare, and you know
that that is.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
One of the most important things that you can do
in this world. Yes, help other people. Yes, I know
some people don't helped, but if they want to be helped,
then you help them.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yep. I love you. Trace.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I want to say this. I've watched you with all
of your people and how nurturing you are, and I
want to say, same girl, same. You're an inspiration to watch.
And I've known you since the beginning, well not the beginning,
but I mean, no one knows I mean you knows
you from the beginning. Is Roger at Georgetown.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
That's that's true. By the way, Trace, that is true.
He's the only one given my parents.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Ye I've seen it all and you've also been amazing
and a nurture. So I love you, I love you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I love you too. It's that time in the show
when I answer too. Let's listener questions. So let's see
what we have today. Okay, this is an embarrassing question.
What Telvin shows are you currently watching? Okay? See, if
you know me, I'm not a really big TV watcher,
(41:13):
and I also tend to watch series over and over
and over again because TV to me is my sort
of like eleven PM, like check out kind of thing.
It's an escape and very often I find myself watching
teen or tween shows and movies very admittedly. So currently
(41:35):
I am binge watching for the second time Outer Banks.
So there, I said it, okay. And I might have
stalked Madison Bailey at an event recently and said we
were going to take a picture for my kids, because
my kids watch it with me. Of course they fast
forward the inappropriate point parts. But yeah, I may have
taken that picture for me, but it's cool, So I'm
(41:57):
just going to own that. Okay, what's the one thing
you're cleaning out or getting rid of for spring. I
don't necessarily get rid of things necessarily, but I would
say that I do a shift. I do like a
closet shift, and I start to take all my heavy,
clunky boots and swap them out, you know, and take
the prime real estate in my closet for more like
(42:17):
kaftans and light down and pieces, and it's time for
spring and spring shoes and spring bags, and I start
to just take out all my heavy, heavy things that
I just can't even look at anymore because we've had
such a rainy winter in La. So I'm very excited
for spring summer this year. Normally it doesn't I don't
even know that it's happening, but this year very excited. Okay, everyone,
(42:40):
don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
All you have to do is dm us your questions
to at Climbing in Hills pod on Instagram and I
just might answer them. I just want to thank my
friend Tracy Cunningham for coming on the podcast. She is
so such a unique and incredibly talented soul, and I mean,
(43:04):
one of the things I love most about her, I
would say, is that she really cares as much today
as she did when she, you know, as she talked
about was bringing tea and doing laundry at her very
first job in high school at a very fancy hair
salon in Washington. And I think for me, and it
(43:25):
might be because I'm just a little bit old school,
but I just have such an incredible appreciation for the
legends that I know in the fashion industry and the
beauty industry who just really started what they do from
the very bottom, climbed their way up by just really
(43:45):
working harder than everybody else in the room, and most importantly,
I would say, driven by an incredible amount of passion
and love for what they do. And I think That's
why Tracy, with all of her success, she really does
not need to work anymore, certainly not as hard as
she does. And she's doing regular people, she's doing famous people,
(44:07):
she's doing the people that she has been doing since
they were teenagers that are now, you know, mothers with
kids in college. And I think, to me, that's just
a testament to her talent, her work ethic, and ultimately
her very deserved success. If you want more climbing and
hals content, follow me on at Rachel Zoe and at
(44:28):
Climbing in Hailes pod on Instagram for more updates on
upcoming guests, episodes, and all things carator. I will see
you all next week
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(00:28):
Hi everyone, I'm Rachel Zoe and you're listening to Climbing
in Keels. This show is all about celebrating the most
extraordinary superwomen who will be sharing their incredible journeys to
the top, all while staying glamorous. With me, we have
one of the most well known, sought after colorists in
the world for the stars, the incredibly talented Tracy Cunningham.
(00:52):
Tracy is beyond a trailblazer in the hair industry and
truly forged her own path in the crazy world of hair.
She might be quite possibly one of the hardest working
women in the beauty industry, and she is beyond hilarious
and so incredibly kind. I've known her for what feels
(01:13):
like half my life, and Tracy is just so impressive
and she's worked so hard. I'm so excited for you.
All to listen. And I think if you know about
hair color, you know of Tracy Cunningham. So let's get
started and you're going to really enjoy this one. I
(01:34):
think it's important for people to learn that things don't
happen overnight. Success doesn't happen overnight. I've never seen it
happen actually in my whole life, and that because they
see you here, Tracy Cunningham, the most well known brilliant
hair color is I'm going to say in the world.
You'll fight me on that because I know you, but
I'm just going to say that. And I've been fortunate
(01:57):
to know you for many, many years. I know hundreds
of people that have you color their hair and love
and adore you as family and friend and will go
to no one else. And so I think for me,
it's very important to talk to you because you're a
very behind the scenes person and you're I also think
that historically hair colorless are not as talked about and
(02:23):
known as hair stylists per se. It's just because when
you're doing a red carpet, they're like the makeup artists,
the stylist, the manicurist, and the hairstylist. They're not like,
oh wait, who did the hair color? But I think
in the case of miss Tracy Cunningham, you know she does.
I'm going to argue to say a massive majority of
(02:45):
the color you see on the red carpet and has
done for years. But I think the thing that I
do want to talk about a bit later is that
you are the most supportive artist. You support the people
that you mentor you help them grow. And I'm going
to use Bryce Scarlett, but we'll talk about that later
because you know, he used to do my blow drys
(03:06):
when you colored my hair, and he's now like, you know,
the stylist to the stars doing Marco Robbie and you know,
I could name another, you know, whole handful of incredible
women that he does, but we talk about you know,
he owes that to you because you know you nurtured
that talent. So I do want to start a little
(03:26):
bit at the beginning because I think that's important, and
I also like to really embrace how you sort of
grew up and how that impacted who you are now.
First of all, where did you grow up? I grew
up to Washington and then and like how so, okay,
were you a good student? Were you shy? Were you
like outgoing and bubbly. I kind of feel like I
(03:47):
know the answer to this, but hit me with it.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
I was never a good student ever. I really tried.
I remember every year at the beginning of the year,
I would, you know, you get all your new peachees
and you know, your organizer and everything, and I was like,
this year, I'm going to be so good. I'm going
to do all my homework. I'm going to do everything
that I have to do to be successful. And I
could never do it. It just wasn't my brain right.
Speaker 1 (04:12):
And that's okay. I'm going to argue to say that
seventy percent of the women I've had on here said
that they were horrific students, not just not good, but horrific.
But that's okay because everybody's a different learner. And I
think the time we're living and now, children that learn
in a million different ways are nurtured and celebrated and supported.
So I think when we all grew up that was
(04:33):
not the case. You were a student or you weren't,
and there wasn't really a middle ground, right.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
But I had an Asian mom, like I really wanted
to do well.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
And So was there a lot of pressure then from
mom to do well or was she just supportive and
was like, no, you're going to find your way.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You know what. My grandpa was really good about it.
He really wanted me to do well, obviously, but I
think he understood. I think he just understood it wasn't me,
right and my mom too. Right, Okay, did you have
a ton of friends? Were you like super social? So
social you were?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Oh? Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Like I feel like I could have run for mayor
and like really for sure and I would have won.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
And so were you like okay? So then all right,
so you're in let's just say you're in junior higher
high school, right, So what's next? Are you like, I'm
going to college or no freaking why I want to
start working?
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Okay? So, first of all, people don't just go to
beauty school in Seattle. Everyone goes to college, you know, sure,
real college town. It's how my family all got to Seattle.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
My grandfather went to the University of Washington and stayed.
My dad went to the University of Washington and stayed.
And so that's how we got to Seattle. From my
mom's side and my dad's side.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
Interesting.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Oh yeah. But I went to the principal and I said, look,
I really love doing hair, and I wish that you
had one of those programs where, you know, you could
let the student go work at the field that they
want to they want to work in that they're interested in,
(06:06):
you know, at the end of the day. So he
made that program for me.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
When you were in high school. That's incredible. Yeah, he
didn't look at you like you're crazy, what are you
asking for?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Yes, it was great. I just I just asked for it,
and he and everyone was so excited because it wasn't
just me that to do it, it was everyone.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That's incredible. Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
So then, okay, so we went to Evergreen College on
certain days. Other days, we got to pick a place
where we would work, and I chose Gene Morrez, which
was it still is a salon in Seattle, used to
be in all the Nord drums and in four seasons.
And I got to work there after school and I
(06:50):
thought it was the coolest person ever. And I was
doing the laundry and I was offering people tea and
coffee when they came, and I.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Were that cute girl that was like Can I get
you tea? Can I get you water?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
I like to say that I was the housekeeper, you
know I was, but I thought I was the ship.
I was the housekeeper and I love it.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
That's it incredible, That's literally incredible. It wasn't was technically
an internship trace or no, like not really it was.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Of course it was an internship.
Speaker 1 (07:25):
What were you paid? No?
Speaker 2 (07:27):
No, no no, it.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Was part of part of the school. I got it.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah. I got to leave at fourth period, take the
bus downtown and go work at g Mores.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
That is it was incredible.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
But you know what it is, Rachel, just being around
people that are creative help you understand your creativity and
you just get pumped, you know, like I can say
that when I'm around you, I want to dress better,
I want to be you. I want to wear everything
(07:59):
that you wear.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
I love you, but you're the freaking cutas. And every
time I see you, all I go is Jesus, I
need new hair color, Jesus I need.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
I'm in love with this sequence soup that Rachel domakes.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I have to get you one of those. By the way,
It's so interesting, Chase, because when I think about it,
you know, people always ask me how I started, and
I was like, and how did you know that you
were going to do this? I said, I'll be honest,
I didn't even know being a stylist was a job.
I just remember showing up, being paid literally next to nothing,
being hired to work like less than three days a week,
(08:34):
and I worked like seven. I went in on weekends,
I like asked for the keys. I would just go in.
And it was because I loved being in it. I
loved being around it. It made me feel like whole,
it like it just got me so excited about everything.
And I think as we get older in our life
and our careers, you actually forget that feeling. I think
(08:56):
of that. It's almost like when you start dating somebody,
right and you're in the honeymoon. It's like that same
kind of feeling. So here you are, you're washing hair
towels and doing laundry. You're bringing customers to, my guess
is very fancy women. Likely because this is a very
fancy salon.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yes, but it's also Seattle, right, So.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
There you are. You're like, I can't believe I'm here.
I love being around people. This is my like, I'm
so excited, right, now, okay, so what happened.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
So what happened was, honestly, when I was about to graduate,
everyone was like, what are you going to do? What
are you going to do? And I was embarrassed to
say I was going to go to beauty school for
some reason, because I felt like everybody else was, it's
not college, it's not college college. So I tried college
and it wasn't for me, and I moved to California.
(09:50):
I lived in La Joya. I worked at a real
estate company. Okay, and I worked for a real estate
person and then his name was I worked as an
assistant for a moment for this guy Mike Bruno, who
actually started First Dips.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
I know I haven't talked to him since I was
his assistant, but literally I was telling somebody the story
that I used to work for this guy, this real
estate guy in San Diego, and he was so cute
and he was in his twenties and we just I
just loved it, and I was Bruno he started First Dips.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
I'm like, wow, well right exactly, like yay everyone, yeah,
hey lo everyone.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah. I always loved surrounding myself with either smart are
really creative people just honestly, no one between right'. I
don't have time for these other people. Like I love it.
I love kooky people and I love really smart people.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
It makes so much sense. Okay, so you moved to
La Joya, you're working in real estate, and then how
do you trip into like hair world? What happens?
Speaker 2 (10:55):
Then I moved to Los Angeles and I started working.
Speaker 1 (10:59):
At La Models, okay, and I know it's crazy, Oh
my god.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
They started doing this other thing at La Models, my god, headhunters.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
And so I started working on that side okay, and
the person next to me hated me and he got
me fired, and there were like traces not doing her work.
I was like, yeah, I am, I'm doing the best
I can at this desk job, and I swear. And
then I got a job at a PR firm.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
You literally did all of this before you got to hair.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
This is oh yeah, Well keep in mind, I'm not
keeping jobs from me right O.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
Wait, how old are you at this point? Trace? Are
you like twenty nineteen nineteen? Okay?
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Okay, okay, So I've a little lived a very long
wife in like two years. So then I got fired.
I went to a PR agency, trying to remember the
name of the agency. It's a big one. And then
I got a job working for Bet Midler as nan queen,
as a nanny. And I said to her, look, i
could do this for about a year and then I've
(12:02):
got to move on. But I just thought, what a
great job to have.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
Hold. You got a job working as a nanny to
Brett Midler. I mean I think we just slipped up
pause for a second. Okay, yeah, I mean Bette Midler's
like the queen. Okay, okay, So what happens.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
So her hairdresser, Robert Ramos would come over all the time,
and I would go hang out at a stilo all
the time. And I mean Teddy Antline and Chris McMillan
and Robert all these great people.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
These are like legends of hairstylists and hair world and
hair stylists for celebs, photo shoots, fashion everything. Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Okay, so I knew Chris McMillan before he was Chris McMillan.
I'll just put it that way.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
And then we had this huge earthquake and by the way,
pregnant while I was working for Bet.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Oh my gosh. Then let me mention. I got pregnant
while I was a nanny for Bett Midler.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
I'm wonder for movies for the boys. I was working
for Bet, going to a stilo all the time. When
Robert wasn't around, I would do BET's.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Hair, ah, got it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
I went to cook. Yeah, I just did so much.
I would cook. And it was the best job.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
It's the best job. You will never learn more than
when you are someone's nanny, your personal assistant, or family assistant.
You will do literally every job imaginable and figure out
what it is that you love to do. I say, my.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Dream is being like a full time mom. That's all
I ever wanted to be. So it was a great job.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Ye. And then we have this huge earthquake and Bett
decided to move to New York.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Got it.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And so I got another job working for another celebrity.
And Bet said, I don't want you to schleppin for
anyone else. You need to go to beauty school.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So, oh my god, I love her.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There was this whole thing. But then she paid for
me to go to beauty school.
Speaker 1 (13:58):
Of course she did.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
See, these these are the people, Tracy that we I
mean yours of course happens to be Bett Midler. But
like it's not like you didn't pay your dues prior
to that. But I mean, that's that's what you call
like a gift mentor that not only sees your starry
eyes and your drive and your talent, but says, Okay,
I'm going to help you take the next step. That's
(14:21):
like the dream.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
And also obviously I was like a really hard work.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, of course she wouldn't have done it.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Oh, and which it was great because I could work
while I was going to school. And you know, she
thinks of the full picture. She didn't just say i'll
pay for your beauty school. She said I'll pay for
your beauty school and I'll pay for Max's daycare. Yeah,
truly blessed. And her daughter was best friends since they
were five years old. With Lily Aldridge. Really and you know,
(14:52):
Chris McMillan had the Rachel and I had the Lily Cambre.
Oh my god, yes, And I guess that that is
a really a real natural hair color that just happened.
I mean you could see it in all the children
that you see see the natural and everyone says, oh
my gosh, I wish I had those highlights. Well, when
Lily was like I think she was sixteen or seventeen, she.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Did, I met them for you, by the way, I
met right for you. Right.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
She did the cover of Mexico Vogue Mexican Vote, and
they dyed her hair dark, and she always had a
little ombre naturally, so even though the hair color was around,
it was you know, you could see different people with
this hair color because it was a natural occurring hair color.
(15:39):
But I did it on Lily and she has such
dark hair and it just was such a hit. I
remember Jacqueline Jarrett came in from Nylon magazine. Do you
remember when? Of course she walks into the salon and
she says, okay, what do you have for me? What's new?
What's going on? And I said, okay, well everyone's obsessed
with Lily Aldrich's hair color. She said, I don't know
(16:00):
who Lily Aldridge is. And I was, oh, okay, never mind.
So I said, what do you want to do to
your hair? Jacqueline. She pulls out the cover of Marie
Claire magazine and it has both my clients on it,
Jennifer Garner and Jessica Biale. And you open it up
and in the middle this ten page something of the
(16:21):
most beautiful pictures colors of Lily Aldridge's hair, and I said, bitch,
that's the photo that everyone's like, what and we laughed
so hard.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
So that's mombre. That's not bronde, right, different? No, okay,
totally totally different. And for those of you that don't
know Lily Aldridge, she is a longtime supermodel, one of
the very famous faces of Ralph Lauren. She's a huge
model and mom, I'm amazing.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Personal Yeah, yeah, she's amazing, And everybody wanted her hair
and then they and then it started going into like
dip dye and all this crazy stuff. But it was
amazing because I mean, I was successful.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
But it's nice I turn the corner. Sure, yeah, nice
to have a signet show. Oh my god, Tracy, that's
so crazy. It's so interesting though, because you're also so
famous for blondes. Every shade of blonde. I think brunette
is such a challenge, and every brunette I know is like,
should I go blonde? I'm like, no, there's this huge
(17:25):
beautiful gray area between you know that. I think you've
really created trace and I think that's your signature. But
I feel like everyone feel like you're the Queen Tracy,
Like everyone just is like no.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
But I think that so many people become blonde toholics
and they get too blonde. And it was a really
nice thing, the ombre, because it was it really it
gave brunettes an opportunity of blonde and brunette at the
same time. Of course, and then you know, I have
(17:58):
all my famous redheads.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Yes you do, Yes, I do.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Listen. I just think, as a colorist, you should try
to be good at all the colors.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Yes, you should be. Yes, you need to be great
at all the colors.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
You shouldn't be blinds or brunette.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
I agree. To be honest, Tracy, I don't think about
you as one thing at all. I think of you
as the everyone. Every manager, every agent, every bubblicist just
would always this is like me and my styling life.
They'd be like, Okay, she's going to go to Tracy
today and then she'll be at the fitting afterwards. So
she's going from Platinum to Brunett for this part. So
(18:37):
she's going to be at Tracy a while. It was
always like the Tracy chapter and then like send to us,
you know, do you wake up ever and go because
I remember coming to the salon for you, and it
was like every week it got more and more and
bigger and bigger, and more people want to Tracy, and
more people want to Tracy, and more people want to Tracy.
(18:57):
And at any point where you just like, oh my god,
I'm going to lose my mind because I never I
never sense that from you. I never sense a lack
of gratitude for where you are. I also always still
see this sparkle in your eye that no matter how
tired you are, even if you've colored forty people in
a day, or you did a twenty four hour trip
(19:17):
to New York to go do someone before a big event,
you always are still like kind of laughing and giggly
and you're sort of like even if you're delirious, but
you still show how much you love and appreciate what
you're doing. I mean, that's how I always feel around you.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Well, I'm going to go back to I was the
housekeeper at a salmon to start off.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
Is everybody listening because this is what we talk about
when you when we say pay your dues, pay your dues,
and you will be grateful life forever.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
I did the Powells and I offered people market spice
tea or coffee water, and I thought it was the
best job in the world. And then now I get
to be one of those people that I was so
in love with.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yep, so I'm flying high.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
You know, being so busy, and I was a single mom,
so I never I never dreamt as big as I.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Got, sure if I did.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
I just want to do well too. I just wanted
to be able to pay my rent and you know,
feed my kid and take them on vacation, you know,
pay for school.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
So so I mean, I'm pretty sure we've really surpassed
that by a landslide. And I did.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
But I never said no. I never said no. Always
worked really hard and still no way. I know that
there are some people that that will say to me, still,
you have to have boundaries, and I'll say to them,
I'm in the service business. If you want to be
successful in the service business, you can't have boundaries. And
(20:50):
it's really nice to be on a show like this
and you're blowing me up, but I'm going to be
honest with you, Rachel, I'm not you know. I mean,
I'm very popular, but I'm not. You know, youeople are
like celebrity colors. I get embarrassed, well because I'm because
I work for a living. I do hair for a living.
I don't, you know, I'm not. I'm not a genius,
you know what I mean. So I'm not. I would
(21:12):
argue that I'm not whatever. I'm not a singer. I'm not,
you know. I color hair for a living, and I honestly,
I see so many, you know, hairdressers that get such
big heads, and I honestly don't like it. Yeah, I
kind of get disgusted by them. And I think you
need to keep your feet on the ground and remember
(21:34):
that you are in the service business and you're here
to serve. And I'm super happy about that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
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Can I tell you something funny, Trace, There's a reason
(24:19):
we've been connected friends for many years, and that is
the fact that I say the exact same thing at
least once a day that I think there is this
big confusion and movement now where like, yes, I ended
up on the other side, not because that was the plan.
It just kind of happened, and I will always be
more comfortable behind. But I will say that the thing
(24:40):
I scream at the top of the mountains. Is that
when you are a colorist, a stylist, a hairstylist, a manicurist,
makeup artist, you're providing a service. And it's so interesting
what you said because I never had boundaries. I didn't
have a boundary until I had my kids. Honestly, I
(25:01):
remember I didn't. And what you just said to me
is so profound because I don't know other than to
myself and to my team, when I'm just like, there
are no boundaries because if you don't say yes, someone
else is right. If you don't answer that phone, there's
someone else's right. And like, if you're okay with that,
then fine, make your boundaries. But just know no one
(25:22):
waits for anybody, and you are a service and you're
providing a service. And when people used to say, oh,
richid 'or this, you're that. No, I'm dressing people, I'm
styling people, I'm creating an image with people. This is
this is a process, and this is a service. And
I think over the last ten years, even the last five,
I mean, there is just there are a lot of
(25:42):
people in this industry who are getting a bit confused.
And I think that you think it's Internet. Yes, our
whole group that we all sort of grew up with.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Aren't like that.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
No. I think it's partly the Internet where everyone can
be their own you know, celebrity and advocate and promote
their own self and their brands and things like that.
And then I also think that there's a lot more
support from the talent, so meaning, you know, I always
tell the stylists now, I'm like, you guys have no
idea Like I didn't. There wasn't There was never a
(26:14):
thing where I would ask a client to be on
a cover of a magazine with me, let alone post
in a photo with me, or like do an interview
on my behalf. You know, that would have had to
have gone through five different people to happen, do you
know what I mean? So, I think it's just a
different time. And I think the one great thing is
how supportive the actual many of the actual celebrities and
(26:37):
talent are supporting their teams and advocating for their stylists
and their hair and their makeup, and you know, giving
them so much public love. I think that's really kind.
I just didn't grow up that way, and I think
that's why there wasn't confusion as to who is fun
what side. But I think to your point, people do
(26:57):
get inflated and they do lose their way. And I
think in that that's my whole point about you is
I think you are such a success because when I
see you working and when I see you with your clients,
it's like there is no confusion as to your role
in this equation, right. But I do think I'm still
going to argue with you and say that you are,
in my opinion, the most well known hair colors in
(27:18):
the world, because I don't I think when people say
Tracy Cunningham, I don't I think anyone who knows hair
color and what that is, they'll say, oh my god,
Jaycey Hunningham. Right, And you can take that as you will,
But I think it's also led to incredible opportunities in
your creative consultant to Oliplex and Redkin and you know,
all of these amazing products that you know. I would
arguably say that Oliplex did change the texture of my hair.
(27:39):
I would say that, and I actually didn't even know
you had anything to do with it as a consultant
or any anything otherwise. But I mean, how do you
feel now do you approach work differently in terms of
like do you say like because I know Jenakin now,
like she literally has certain days that she says, these
are for my kids, here's days that you can reach me.
She has it very scheduled. I'm like, you do like,
(28:01):
I wouldn't even know how to do that. I wouldn't
even know how to be like, don't call me today,
call me tomorrow, because today is not a day where
I can talk to you.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Yes, I feel like Gen's always been good like.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
That, I know, but I'm not. I'm not.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
So Yesterday I got to my client's house at six
point thirty.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And am or pm. Yeah, okay, And.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
They thought for sure that I'd been resting all day
because it was Sunday, but no, I had the salon
yesterday all day long. Of course we were doing eleven people,
so of course you are. And it was all because
I couldn't say no, and I didn't have any room
to put them in any other days. So I just said,
you know what, guys, let's just open up Monday our Sunday.
(28:45):
And my assistant said, I thought we were only going
in for two people, but I kept adding it because
people kept texting me and.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
I kept saying yes, trade.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
But I will say this. I will say this, I
have trained a lot of amazing, amazing hair color.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Is yes, and I've just used one and plan to
use her again because Ashley, she's incredible.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
She's very especial. Me too. But you know, COVID changed me.
COVID totally changed me where not my work ethic. But Rachel,
you know you saw me do on a regular day,
it would be like forty people.
Speaker 1 (29:26):
Oh yeah, no, actually holidays.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Would be more like fifty. And you're like, how do
you do fifty people a day? Because a lot of
them are bases, right, Because I don't just do celebrities.
I do a lot of women with gray hair.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Also, you do a lot of women that are I
would like to go on record and say Tracy does
a lot of non famous people that are just amazing women,
a lot, a lot, a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
And people are like, you should give up your regular people.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
And now you're not that person, No way, no way.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
I mean I've known these people since before they had children,
since before they got married, since before you know. I mean,
you just don't get rid of people that have stuck
by you for twenty five years.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
But hear that listeners. Here's that listeners.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, thirty years, twenty five years. So during COVID, imagine
I'm an athlete, because I mean people can't do that
kind of work, like standing on their feet all day long,
and what I do is okay. So if I start
at nine and someone calls me and says I need
to be squeezed in and I already have thirty five people,
what am I going to do? Well? I add them
(30:31):
at eight thirty obviously, and then the next person I
ad them at eight, and then the next person, I'm like, oh,
you can't do early morning, okay, So my last client's
at five. I'll take you at five thirty, you know, So,
oh you have face color, come at four and then
I'll do your highlights at five, you know. I mean
I'm constantly juggling and making every trying to make everybody happy,
and so it was like I was an Olympic athlete,
(30:54):
training every single day for the fucking you know.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
I've sign it, I've seen it in it's mental.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Soh COVID, COVID. All of a sudden, I'm forced to
sit in my room for seventy three days, like never
going out of my house. I mean, not even Jlo
was getting her base color done. I was sending everybody
their base colors.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Oh, I learned to I learned to bump my base
in COVID. I did yeah, I did yeah. And I
had Skyler, my oldest son, do the back Yes.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
I face timed with j Lo and Mariah.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Carey casual me too.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Face it, and I FaceTime with Ellen DeGeneres because I
had to color to her so she could do Porscha's hair,
I swear, But I did not leave the house. And
it was crazy, and I slowed down, like if you're
an Olympic athlete and you don't train every single day.
(31:51):
We got back to work and we're like it was
dasted to doing ten people exhausted. And the greatest gift
of all was my assistants who did go back to
work after the seventy three days, and some of them
would have to go and do bass during those days.
They all went on the floor. They all created relationships
(32:14):
that are relationships with my clients, and they now do
a lot of my clients and it's so awesome and
they're all doing so well.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Isn't that incredible? And you're like the mama bear, right.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yes, and it makes me so happy because they're all
killing it.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
Yep, I love it. I want to quote that. So
it makes you so happy that they're all killing it
and they're loyal to you, they are grateful to you,
and they learned from you.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yes, I love it. Just makes me so happy because
all you want for everybody else to do well around you.
You don't want to be the only one.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
No, of course, except I just you know, for me,
part of the reason I had to pause from styling
was because I just it didn't work for me. I
didn't have magical people like you. I had the people
that do the opposite, hired the people that take the clients, run,
stab you in the back and leave. I had. I
had a handful, of course, yeah, exactly. I mean, listen,
it's it's hard, but I think the fact is this
(33:12):
has been blood, sweat and tears. Was Have you ever
woken up and been like, I can't do it anymore?
Or do you still wake up now and go I
love what I do. I love what I do, and
I've found a healthier way to do it.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Well. I don't know if it's healthier, but I do.
I do less people during the day but I'm still
working almost every single.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Day and you still love it. You still love it.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
I do. I still love it. If I didn't love it,
I would I would not do it.
Speaker 1 (33:38):
By the way, That's what I always said. That's that's
why I had to pause from styling, because I said,
if I can't wake up and remember why I love this,
I have to pause, you know.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
So I wake up every morning and I'm like in
a panic, like what am I doing today?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
What am I doing?
Speaker 2 (33:53):
What time do I start?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
You know, By the way, it's like that salon like,
it's that salon panic. It's the eating while you're standing
running in the back shoving a sandwich face. Yes, love
you so much, Tracy. I think you're a living legend,
quite frankly, and your energy is very loving, your talent
is beyond I know a lot of the celebrities that
(34:17):
you do, and I know a lot of the everyday
women that you do, and they all love you and
appreciate you the same, to be honest, And so my
question for you really is you're obviously, in my opinion
from where I sit, you're probably living beyond your dreams
at this point. Just your life in general. Nothing to
change your money just you know. Yeah, I think, as
(34:37):
you said earlier, I think it's like your goal was
to feed your son as a single mom, pay your
rent and be able to take him on vacation and
sent h to school. Yes, and now you are really
just at the top. And it was so important to
have you on. And when I started this podcast months ago,
I was like, I really want to have Tracy on.
And I think it's because people don't recognize the importance
(34:58):
of hair colorists and hair artists, hair geniuses. And I
think people don't talk about the talent behind enough. And
when I think of hair color I think of you.
So I've had the view from the inside, and I think,
just like your story, your journey, I mean it was hard.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
Yes, it was very hard. I've cried many nights.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
And so your advice to young Tracy, to young people,
or even not young, just people that are like, hey,
I love doing hair I may want to consider doing this,
I want to pivot. Or my kids have just left
for college and I've always been great at hair styling
or coloring. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2 (35:34):
I would say, find somebody really good to assist and work.
Just please remember I don't care how big you get
on Instagram. Please remember that you are in the service business,
and remember that the best way to get clients is
through referrals. And you know, it's funny because I don't
(35:57):
take anybody from the front desk, and I haven't for years.
I would say about ten years, Like you call my salon,
I do not. You cannot book an appointment with me.
But if you know somebody that knows me and you say, like, oh, Rachel,
if you called me and said, oh, my housekeeper put
black all over her hair, can you please take her
on Monday? And I would say, yes, right, I don't
(36:19):
care who is I just want to make sure that
that someone can vouch for them.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
That's so interesting. That's so interesting.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
And the only thing I ask, I don't ask like
what do they do or whatever?
Speaker 1 (36:30):
I say, crazy, right, right, crazy.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
I just don't want crazy, Okay, is it? But I like,
I don't mind. And my assistance, you know, every once
in a while, because I gave so many clients away
during COVID, and you know, because I really wanted to
build all of my old assistants, and so every once
in a while we'll take a new client and I
always say to my assistants, I'm taking this client because
(36:55):
I want to make sure you have people to take
you know, when you go on. So yeah, but I honestly,
I just want people to stay grounded, get a good education,
try to take classes. Redkin has classes which are great.
You can also get a lot of great online classes.
(37:16):
You just have to become really good at your craft.
And when I knew I was successful, Rachel, I knew
I was when I would have moms and daughters, sisters,
you know, those kind of referrals or groups of friends
would all come to me. You know, that's the biggest compliment.
And then of course now we have Instagram and that's
(37:40):
a good way to do it, you know, but you know,
it's still still hard to build. And you know, you
just have to be very consistent and listen to your
client and if they say, you know, I'm not sure
if I like my hair, you know, don't get upset
you didn't, you know, just fix it. That's what I
love about color. You can fix anything.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
You know. That's actually a really good point because when
I watch people do color, it is actually a science.
It's like a chemistry experiment. Every single time in my
opinion when I'm watching it and I'm like, God, there's
so much margin for error here. To me, that would
be so stressful. But to your point, it's like you
(38:21):
can change it. You can change it, and you can
fix it. And I think that when you're an artist,
no matter what kind of artists, but when you're working
with people and they're hiring you to do something, there
is this thing where you know, I think you hear
about artists that have tantrums and they're like, if you
don't like it, go somewhere else, right, So I think
another really great takeaway here is basically like you did it.
(38:44):
They're saying we don't love it. I don't love it,
and you say, okay, let's talk about it. Let's fix it.
You listen to them novel idea trace right.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
I'll listen to my assistants talking to my clients. They're
blow drying their hair to check and this assistant saying, no,
it's really good, it's really good. But do you think
it's too stripey or whatever. I don't know what there's
And I always say, let's just let's fix it right now.
And I'll say to my assistant, look, you have to
(39:14):
listen to the client. The client's saying that they don't
like it when they're in your chair. Imagine what's going
to happen when they go home as all of their
friends if they like you know, you ask everybody, wait,
what do you think? What do you think of my hair?
I think it's this and they're all going to you know,
and then you're going to have to come back and
do it anyway, So just do it then fix it.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
It's so true. My god, my god, Jacy, It's so true. Also,
I do want to note Jessica Biel's hair colors epic
like it actually is. That she's so beautiful. It's actually
mental how beautiful she is. But that hair, that gorgeous hair,
it really just and the cheek bones and all of it. Yes,
but like, yes, you know well, I love you, Trace,
(39:55):
I love your story, I love your success, I love
how nurturing you are, love what a mama bear you are.
I love that you've been this badass, single mom, working
your fucking ass off. But I also love watching you
help other people win because that's rare, and you know
that that is.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
One of the most important things that you can do
in this world. Yes, help other people. Yes, I know
some people don't helped, but if they want to be helped,
then you help them.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Yep. I love you. Trace.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
I want to say this. I've watched you with all
of your people and how nurturing you are, and I
want to say, same girl, same. You're an inspiration to watch.
And I've known you since the beginning, well not the beginning,
but I mean, no one knows I mean you knows
you from the beginning. Is Roger at Georgetown.
Speaker 1 (40:40):
That's that's true. By the way, Trace, that is true.
He's the only one given my parents.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
Ye I've seen it all and you've also been amazing
and a nurture. So I love you, I love you.
Speaker 1 (40:52):
I love you too. It's that time in the show
when I answer too. Let's listener questions. So let's see
what we have today. Okay, this is an embarrassing question.
What Telvin shows are you currently watching? Okay? See, if
you know me, I'm not a really big TV watcher,
(41:13):
and I also tend to watch series over and over
and over again because TV to me is my sort
of like eleven PM, like check out kind of thing.
It's an escape and very often I find myself watching
teen or tween shows and movies very admittedly. So currently
(41:35):
I am binge watching for the second time Outer Banks.
So there, I said it, okay. And I might have
stalked Madison Bailey at an event recently and said we
were going to take a picture for my kids, because
my kids watch it with me. Of course they fast
forward the inappropriate point parts. But yeah, I may have
taken that picture for me, but it's cool, So I'm
(41:57):
just going to own that. Okay, what's the one thing
you're cleaning out or getting rid of for spring. I
don't necessarily get rid of things necessarily, but I would
say that I do a shift. I do like a
closet shift, and I start to take all my heavy,
clunky boots and swap them out, you know, and take
the prime real estate in my closet for more like
(42:17):
kaftans and light down and pieces, and it's time for
spring and spring shoes and spring bags, and I start
to just take out all my heavy, heavy things that
I just can't even look at anymore because we've had
such a rainy winter in La. So I'm very excited
for spring summer this year. Normally it doesn't I don't
even know that it's happening, but this year very excited. Okay, everyone,
(42:40):
don't forget to submit your questions for next week's episode.
All you have to do is dm us your questions
to at Climbing in Hills pod on Instagram and I
just might answer them. I just want to thank my
friend Tracy Cunningham for coming on the podcast. She is
so such a unique and incredibly talented soul, and I mean,
(43:04):
one of the things I love most about her, I
would say, is that she really cares as much today
as she did when she, you know, as she talked
about was bringing tea and doing laundry at her very
first job in high school at a very fancy hair
salon in Washington. And I think for me, and it
(43:25):
might be because I'm just a little bit old school,
but I just have such an incredible appreciation for the
legends that I know in the fashion industry and the
beauty industry who just really started what they do from
the very bottom, climbed their way up by just really
(43:45):
working harder than everybody else in the room, and most importantly,
I would say, driven by an incredible amount of passion
and love for what they do. And I think That's
why Tracy, with all of her success, she really does
not need to work anymore, certainly not as hard as
she does. And she's doing regular people, she's doing famous people,
(44:07):
she's doing the people that she has been doing since
they were teenagers that are now, you know, mothers with
kids in college. And I think, to me, that's just
a testament to her talent, her work ethic, and ultimately
her very deserved success. If you want more climbing and
hals content, follow me on at Rachel Zoe and at
(44:28):
Climbing in Hailes pod on Instagram for more updates on
upcoming guests, episodes, and all things carator. I will see
you all next week
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