Charles Barkley Part 1

Charles Barkley grabs a rebound at Club Shay Shay and joins Shannon Sharpe for an enthralling conversation that transcends basketball. Barkley opens up about his deep-rooted ties to his Alabama hometown, revealing poignant anecdotes from his upbringing, including his grandmother's unconventional side hustle and his father's impactful visit during a pivotal moment in high school. From childhood mishaps to transformative life lessons, Barkley shares the raw and authentic experiences that shaped his journey to NBA stardom. Reflecting on his early NBA career, Barkley delves into the inner turmoil that fueled his competitive fire, shedding light on pivotal moments of self-realization, including a notorious spitting incident and poignant encounters with influential figures like Moses Malone and Dr. J. With candid honesty, Barkley navigates through the highs and lows of his illustrious career, from the exhilaration of collegiate success at Auburn to the challenges of sportsmanship and the weight of societal and professional expectations. He offers a unique perspective on the evolution of the NBA, touching on topics ranging from player contracts and league dynamics to the enduring legacy of basketball icons like Larry Bird and Michael Jordan. Through laughter, introspection, and unwavering authenticity, Barkley paints a vivid portrait of resilience, determination, and the unwavering pursuit of excellence. Join Shannon Sharpe and Charles Barkley for an unforgettable first half of their conversation through the triumphs and tribulations of a living legend, as they explore the timeless truths that transcend the boundaries of sport.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
I got in shape.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
For two million dollars the money these guys are making today,
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Wait for thirty five dollars fifty sixty your I know
I'll be. They'd be like, we gotta get charge to eat.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
He's action all my life, grinding all my life, sacrifice
hustle back price.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
One slice got the bronic gist to swap all my life.

Speaker 3 (00:25):
I've been grinding all my life, all my life, drowning
all my life, sacrifice hustle back price. One slice got
the bronic gist to swap all my life.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
I've been grounding all my life.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
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Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hello wasn't to another episode of Club Sha Shay. I
am your host, Shannon Sharp. I'm also the for private
Club Sha Shay. The guy that's stopping buy for conversation
and the drink today is a sports icon and a
true superstar. One of the game's greatest NBA players and
power forwards of all time. He's one of the greatest
rebounders of all time. He's the shortest player in NBA
history to lead the league in rebounding. A sixteen year

(02:12):
NBA VET, eleven time NBA All Star, eleven time member
of the All NBA Team, the nineteen ninety three Most
Valuable Player All Star Game MVP, A two times Gold Medalist,
the leading scorer on the Famous Dream Team. He's also
named to the fiftieth and seventy fifth Anniversary Team. He
has his number retired in Philly, Phoenix and at the
University of alvern SEC player of the nineteen eighters, a

(02:33):
two time inductee of the Hall of Fame, A four
time Emmy Award winning personality, analyst and commentator, fan favorite,
successful author sout after speaker Philanthroprints. One of the game's
greatest character he was like no other, a larger than
life personality. He might be the most quotable sports figure
in all of sports. Sir Charles, the round Milder Rebound,
the Prince of Pizza. Guess what they call him, The

(02:55):
Leaning Tower of Pizza, The Chris Go Kid, the Wide
Load from Leeds, one of the most popular figures in
NBA history. Ladies and gentlemen, Sir Charles Markley, you wrote that.
You read that just like I wrote it. Hey, I
appreciate that.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Now.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's an honor, man, Thank you for having me. Man,
I've been you know, we've been trying to do this
for a long we have. We have between gol I
figured out we're Chris crossed each other across the country
every week because I'm flying to Atlanta, You're flying to
la back and forth. So I'm glad that that's an
honor though. Man, you're doing a hell of a job, y'all. Man,
I want to say thank you for opening up. I mean,
your NBA career goes without saying, but what you've been

(03:33):
able to do to transition after the NBA and to
become a lot of people might not like you, but
they respect what you've been able to accomplish, and you
open the doors for a lot of us, especially myself
because I took my que from you, and we'll get
into that a little later.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
So I want to take TOAs your success. This is
my kanyak.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
Hey, you know, we got to talk about your Kangnac
because I can't get into the dark liquor. Man, this
is so smooth. It don't drink like to see it drinks.
It's a vs O P. But it drinks like an ex.
Soa tell you what before we that's your that's your
you get home before we finish today, I'm gonna try something. Okay,

(04:15):
you got my word, you got you got your you
got your red monk.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
So you know it's a company of distillery. I bought
in Alabama about four years ago. You know, being from Alabama,
I will always look for business opportunities in Alabama.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
And the distillery opened up and I was like, okay,
they do vodka. Jen, I think we got a great product.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
The only thing I worry about the men and my
boys drinking all of the property, you know, because I'm
a vodka guy. But you know, we do a vodka
a gin. Shout out to red Mond. It's been it's
been cool. It's a very interesting business. When I say interesting,
I mean corrupt.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
Uh yeah, yeah it is.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
But you know, as long as I invest in Alabama.
You know, I grew up in a small town outside
of Birmingham, but I'm always looking for some opportunities in Alabama.
But that that's that's always be home. You grew up
in a small town. I grew up in a small town, Leeds, Alabama.
What was Charles Barkley childhood?

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Like? Well, you know, Shannon, it's interesting because poor people
don't know they're poor.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Poor.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Everybody around you is poor. You know.

Speaker 2 (05:22):
I had a great mother and grandmother. My mother was
a maid. My grandmother worked at the chicken factory. But
they did awesome. And you know, I had three brothers.
Two of my brothers have passed away. But man, we
didn't even know we were poor. We lived in the
projects and they were They worked all the time, but

(05:43):
we didn't go without anything. So I've always tried to
take care of them when they were alive. But I
didn't know, like yo, we had everything we needed. We
never went hungry. We always had good clothing. And I
was so blessed to have a great mother and grandmother.
My dad was not in the picture, and me and
my dad we got along later in life. At the beginning,

(06:05):
I had number of animosity and hate toward him because
he wasn't around. Because he wasn't around and he didn't
do anything for us. And to see my mother and
grandmother struggling, you know, because you know, bringing up those boys,
trying to make sure we got you know, cleaning people houses.
And my grandmother was crazy. She'd bring a million chicken

(06:26):
feed home. And for you, people don't know what chicken
feed are, that they are what they say they are.
And you know what people don't understand, this is a
chicken feed. There's only one piece of meat right here,
and you have to eat like a hundred of them
to get a full meal. She would bring all types
of body parts home from the butcher shop all the time.
But you know, I made peace with my dad later

(06:48):
in life, and because uh, he died a couple of
years ago, but we became casual friends. I didn't need
a dad by the time we reconnected. But I beared
the hatchet because you know, you can't go through life
and angry because it just weighs you down. Yes, but
I was so fortunate to have a great mother and grandmother.
The forgiveness that you gave him, that was for you

(07:10):
because he was living his life. Yes, you was carrying
around something that was weighing you down. Well, you know,
that was a really traumatic experience in my life. When
I was in high school, so when I got ready.
So it's a couple of goals in my basketball career.
I'm really proud of number one, getting my team to

(07:32):
the state tournament. My high school had never been to
the state tournament, and then getting all into March back,
and those are two of the most important things I've
ever done in my life.

Speaker 1 (07:42):
But to get back to the high school thing.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
My junior year, we got beat by a better team.
My senior year, we were the best team in the state.
But I kind of got hurt. I got hurt and
we lost, and I kind of was just so depressed.
I got of stayed in bed for like two weeks.
I mean, I was so mad that the first year
get him to the tournament was a big deal because

(08:05):
they had never been before the next year, like, I
want to bring him the first state championship to my
high school, and then we lost.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I just went into a deep depression.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
So I got behind in all my classes and I
caught him in everyone of myself Spanish. First of all,
I have no reason why I was taking Spanish in
hours album, so I caught up in all my classes
self Spanish, so I didn't graduate.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
I had to go to summer school.

Speaker 2 (08:27):
Oh Man, and my dad, who was living in California
my whole childhood, flew in and he ripped me a
new ashole. And I'm already traumatized that I'm not going
to get to March, and when he flew in at
that point, I just say, man, I ain't never going
to forgive this dude ever again, yelling at me like that,
because I was already down. So how often proud of

(08:48):
him flying in to read you from bailing that class?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
How often had you seen him? How active was he
in your life? Zero? So that was that was like
he just came in just for that.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, And it's my memories vaguely, but I don't think
I probably saw it probably ten times in my childhood.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
But he flew in for that high school reunion. I
didn't know.

Speaker 2 (09:08):
I couldn't that I had flunck the file exam until
right before graduation, and he ripped me a new one.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
But that night I went to the high school.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
And I stood next door on the stadium and watched
the graduation and cried for like two hours. And that
night I said, this is the last time I'm gonna
let anybody ever have control of my life.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
I mean, I was crying.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
It was brutal, of course, and I was standing there
just watching all my friends graduating and some of the perido.
Let's be honest, they wasn't that nice to me. They
were calling me dummy and things like that. So I
was obviously I was kind of out of it. Then
I went to summer school and then from that point
on I got my act together. But the biggest problem
was my first few years in the NBA. I was

(09:56):
such a whole because I was I was. I was
playing so angry because I was thinking about two people,
Miss Gomez and my.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
Dad, Miss Goldman.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
I'm assume it is a Spanish tea, yes, And you know,
people said, man, why you play so angry and so aggressive?
And I never told anybody until later, I said, man,
I was every time I stepped on the court, I said,
I'm gonna stick it to Miss Gomez and my dad.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
And it wasn't until.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
The spending incident in New Jersey, when I was sitting
in the hotel room crying that night, I said, yo, man,
you are an old don't play basketball. To try to
take it to people, the kids who made fun of
you in high school, Miss Gomes. First of all, it
was your fault three flunk Spanish. It wasn't Miss Gomad's fault.
It was your fault three flunk Spanish. Hey, listen, your

(10:47):
dad's told that's on him. Play basketball, because number one,
you're good at it. But it's just just just play.
And that was like the turning point in my life,
you know. And the second turning point was probably meeting
Moses Malone, right because when I got because I was

(11:08):
in college for three years and I waited about two
ninety ish to three hundred, I was always fluctuating right
in there.

Speaker 1 (11:15):
And then when I got drafted by.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
The Sixers, because I left the league in said rebound area.
So you know, I think I'm successful. I'm in good shape.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Right, But there's no reason for you to lose weighting
here doing all that.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yes, and you know, you know, because you've been a
Hall of Famer. Obviously, college shape ain't pro shaped. Yeah,
college shape ain't pro shaated. It's a different animal he is.
And I remember I got lucky because Moses lived in
the same building as me, and I said, Moses, can
I wasn't getting to play.

Speaker 1 (11:45):
I was supposed can I come see you? Tonight.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
He said, surely, what's up? I said, I'll tell you later,
and I supposed to. Why am I not getting to play?
He said, charge you're fatter.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
You're lazy. It's that blood. Oh yeah, he was great.
He's like e of Huddon.

Speaker 2 (11:59):
He didn't say much right, but he was such an
elder statement and was so respected. He was like Yef Huddon,
like every time Moses said something, because Doc spoke, Andrew, Tony,
Bobby Jones, those guys Mo Cheeks too, But Moses never
really said a lot. But when he spoke, that whole
locker room like Moses talking set the hell up. And

(12:21):
he when he told me I was family lazy. But
then he said the next thing. He said, you want
me to help you lose weight? And he said, I'll
meet you before practice, after practice, and he said, let's
lose ten pounds. I said, okay, And then I lost.
I got to about two ninety and then he's, let's
lose ten more. Then I get to two eighty. Now
I'm getting to play, okay because I can sustain it.

(12:42):
You can't sustain effort at three hundred. So now I'm
at two eighty. He said, let's lose ten more. He
gets me to two seventy two sixty two fifty and
I look back at that when I talk to kids
about losing weight, I said, let's lose some weight, because
if you have to say to me, let's lose fifty pounds,
I was like, whoa. But he did it in such

(13:02):
a smart way. He said, let's lose ten pounds. Let's
lose ten.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
And then when he got the two, when I got
to fifty, the rest is history.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
I'm looking at your childhood. I read that your grandmother
ran the bar. Well, no, she didn't run a bar.
We had people come to the house get drunk every week.

Speaker 1 (13:18):
No. See, so it was and do you think that's normal? Right?

Speaker 2 (13:22):
It was crazy about this shadow. It was a fight
every weekend. Every weekend. Yeah, because he's drinking, involved and
gambling probably, so that's what it was.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
So we didn't have a bar in my hometown.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Oh okay, so every starting Friday, pay period, pay period everybody.
So now you know, everybody's trying to make extra money.
And do you know once they started losing, it's going
to be a fight because they started drinking. So my
grandmother would go to Georgia every week and get cheaper
alcohol and me.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
And the poor do shots.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
So I was kind of like the guy who bought
the shots out and then go back to my room.
Charles come out. He didn another drink. But starting Friday
around six o'clock ten people would come over and gamble,
and then once it started always started out civil, and
then once somebody got drunk and started losing their money,

(14:21):
it was always going to be a fight, of course.
And we did that every Friday and Saturday pretty much
my entire childhood. And that's how we made extra money
because you're not making enough money working in a meat
factory and as a maid. But it was crazy because
and my grandmother, she was amazing, but it was crazy.

(14:41):
It's crazy thinking about it now. Yeah, what kind of
lessons did that teach you? Seeing your grandmother doing what
she could to make ends meet, You see your mom
doing what she can to make ends meet. There's four
boys going on, You're not getting the assistance that you
need or from your dad. You're not getting the love,
the advice from your Yeah, so what kind of impact

(15:02):
did that have on you? Well, so I had started
stealing and one night the cops chased us. That was
the closest way I got to getting arrested. And I
remember when I was crawling on the ground in the
woods because they chased us. They were chasing us, and
we were crawling us to crawled like one hundred two

(15:24):
hundred yards, and I remember I had dirt everywhere and
scars everywhere, and I was like, damn, my mother and
grandmother are working there off every day and you out
here being a crook. And then that's when I said,
you know what, I got to get these lady to
love and the respect they deserve. So then I said,

(15:44):
you know what, I'm gonna just play sports. What's really
funny about it. I sucked at sports. I wasn't any
good because I didn't have my girls friend because I
most people don't know that I was only five ten
when I was a junior in high school. If I
had to gros spurt, ain't no telling what I would
be doing today because I was about five ten backup

(16:05):
point guard.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
And then one year I grew from five to ten
to six five.

Speaker 2 (16:10):
I mean, but at five to ten you probably waited
probably why no, I was like two twenty football player.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
Right now, have been running back.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yeah, let me tell you something. My friends make fun
of me. I played football for one day. You know,
football is my favorite sport in boxing, because I think
I think it takes a real man to play football
in box, because those are only sports you can really
get hurt. That And I was like, I played football
for one day, and I was like, and I was

(16:39):
just joke with the football coach. Later after I had
my gross sburder and I later in life, he's like,
I think I made a mistake putting you on the
offensive line. I says, no, you made a mistake talking
me into playing football because I played the one day
and I just ran into it. I says, I just
ran into a guy full speed for like two hours.
This is the stupidest ever. And I remember I was

(17:01):
sitting in the locker room. I was bloody and beating
up and I had my head down. I was totally
at the first after the first day of practice, and
the coach says, I'll see y'all tomorrow. I said, wait,
we're doing this and said I said, I'm not doing
this tomorrow. I said no, under no circumstances as a coach,
and I went and after practice, I went on to coach,

(17:23):
I want to thank you for the opportunity. But football
right back in after that first day, this is not
for me, This is not for me. I say that
the one reason football is my favorite sport, I think
it takes tremendous courage that in boxing are by faring
away my two favorite sports, because you can't cheat in football.

Speaker 1 (17:43):
In boxing, basketball you.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Can skate, skate on offense or defense and you know whatever.
But if you put if you're on a football field,
you cannot cheat. Same thing in a boxing ring, You're
gonna get your head knocked off. That's why I admire
football players and boxers because it takes and his courage
to go out there. You're born in Alabama. We understand
the history of racism in Alabama. Yeah, did you experience

(18:08):
any racism growing up when you were in that small
town of Alabama? No, because the year I was born
was the church bombing. He had to sell them a massacre.
You had the Montgomery boardcart my grandmother in my town.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It was it was.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
I think it was a great place to grow up
because we weren't in a small town. I think I
don't even think we really know what the hell going on.
I've experienced more racism and see more racists when I
got out of there, obviously, And you know, I was
one of the first two kids to integrate the school system,

(18:49):
and I didn't we didn't know what the hell was
going on. I didn't find out that later. There was
a guy named mister Allen who drove me and two
other kids actually to segregate to integrate the schools, the
elementary school. But I never felt I never felt racism
in Leeds, to be honest with you, that accident very

(19:14):
I have one very heavy colloquial dialect that's indigenous to
the South.

Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yes, did people make fun of the way you spoke?
Or did everybody speak like that? They?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I didn't realize it until I got to Philadelphia, you know,
because I spent my entire life in Alabata. You know,
you know, one of the great decisions I made was
going to Auburn.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, okay, so I would say, you know, by now,
I'm really close to my mother and grandmother. I'm gonna
stay in the box, right uab is twenty five thirty
minutes from my house. Tuscaloosa is an hour fifteen from
my house. Auburn is the funest way by far, it's

(20:02):
like a legit two hours. So when I was trying
to figure out where to go to college, uab led
by the great Gene Bartow made it to the sweet sixteen.
Alabama made it to the sweet sixteen, and they both
had everybody coming back. Bobby Ly hurt an, Well, no,
we came out together. Not only did they both make

(20:24):
it to the sweet sixteen, Alabama signed and it's Wally
and Bobby Ly hurt it. So I'm saying, I'm saying
to myself, man, I want to play right. So I
go down to Auburn and I said I'm looking around.
I said, damn, these bombs gonna lost twelve games the road.

(20:44):
So asked coach Smith, I said, you got a pin
on you? He said, oh, what you a big time?
You're getting ready to sign the autograph. I said, nope,
I'm signing right now because these damn guys can't play dead.
Y'all on lost twelve games in a row, and I
don't see anybody out there who put fear and more heart.
And that's actually how the whole thing at Auburn went down.
I said, it's signing was made. Says you're gonna sign autographs.

(21:06):
Of Nope, I'm signing a scholarship right on the spot
because these dudes cannot play dead. And that's how I
made the best decision to go to Auburn, because I
tell all these kids, some of these kids are dummies.
I said, hell, man, look who they have on the
team before you go there. If you know there's a
guy who's really good and you play the same position,

(21:27):
no matter how much comfidence you got, you probably not
gonna beat him out.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
He's gonna be veryer, stronger, more experienced.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
When you I said, the number one thing, I said,
if you want to education, you get an education anywhere.
But the number one thing where you're deciding to go
to college is playing time, because that's gonna be the
first time you're away from home. And if you don't
get to play, college's gonna suck. Your grade's gonna suck,
your personal life gonna suck. You really need to look

(21:53):
at who's on the roster before you decide to go.
So you said you didn't realize that you had an
accent until you got the Philly. Once you got to Philly,
did you ever try to change the way you talk
or nunciate words? No, not really, because, as you know, fame,
like everybody trying to explain being in the limelight of fame,

(22:16):
whatever words you want to use, trying to explain that
to a normal person, like talking Chinese or talking to
an alien.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
You're not a sport, do you celebrities other? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (22:27):
But when I first like, it's overwhelming when it first happened. Yes,
Like I said, you can't even prepare for it. I said,
when they start sticking those cameras and you turn on TV,
they talking good or bad about you. In Philadelphia on
the radio, going to the black barbershop, Hey, never go

(22:48):
to a black barbershop when you're on a bad team. Ever, Hey,
any circumstances, I said, do you never hey the Wooded
Brothers in Philadelphia, Man, I played on some team of
just sucking Philly when Doctor Moses had went away. Never
go to a black barbershop when things are going back.
They will tell you the truth. And even if it's

(23:08):
not your fault, they just gonna tell you y'all suck.
Y'all suck. But no, I was trying to adjust and
in a really important pivotal moment had when I was
with Doctor j So my second year in the league.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'm starting to.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Become a good player, and I hate when guys get
on TV and say they don't give it what people think.
Blah blah blah. Everybody wants to be liked, they do.
But I was trying to make everybody happy. They started
because my first couple of years, they went to Moses,
Doctor J, Marie Cheeks, Andrew Tony, those guys, Bobby Jones like.

(23:47):
I don't think I ever got an interview with my
rookie year. So later in my second year, I'm starting
to get it together and learn. The games slowing down
for me and Doctor J. I said, Doc, how do
I talk to the press? He said, well, you gotta know,
you gotta do it. Figure it out because they're coming
to you.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Now. You turn into a hell of a player. And
I said, I want everybody like me.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
He says, well, that's that's kind of an interesting question
because no matter what you say, have people gonna like
it and have people gonna dislike it. And I said,
what does that mean? He says, that's the way this
thing works. You can't make everybody happy. And then that
was the turning point for me. I said, what if
I just say my truth? He says, you might as

(24:26):
well say you're truth because even if you said what
everybody wants you to say, some people are gonna disagree
with it.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
And then I changed my whole philosophy as far as like,
just be honest.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
That does not mean I'm right all the time, but
I'm gonna try to be fair and give my honest opinion.
And I can live with the repercussions because you said
something earlier, whether people like me or not. At least
guys like you know what, at least Charles, even if
I disagree with him, he doesn't have a haden agenda.
Because the one thing I hate about these guys somebody
and you know, I got this to hate towards Skip

(24:57):
Baylor's because it's specially being black. I think I'm representing
some bigger I think every black person on television. Television
is really powerful. Really. Mike Wilbon one of my mentors,
one of the best people I ever met. He said

(25:18):
something me one time, he says, when he first got
the job at PTI one of my favorite shows with
him in corn Houser, he says, Man, I didn't realize
how powerful television was. He says, I've been with The
Washington Post for twenty five years. I walk around nobody
say hello, kiss my anything. I'm on TV for a week. Hey,

(25:39):
you're the guy from TV. And he said he had
to learn, like man, TV is a powerful thing. But
the point I want to make as a black person,
I'm really conscious of everything I say. You gotta be
because there is a double standard. Idiot, Because one thing
that drives me crazy when when people use cold word

(26:01):
describing me, you, steven A, guys like that, I says,
And I want to be very careful because I'm not
trying to offend anybody, but I want to make this point.
I says, well, I'm curious you don't use those type
of words. You use words and we know what they
mean black when you talk about Shannon steven A and

(26:21):
Chuck I said, But when Colin Coward, Jim Rome, Mike Greenberg,
who are great guys, I might add, when they say stuff,
you don't use those cold words with them. And I says,
so I'm very cognizant of like, Okay, there's a double standard.

(26:42):
So I'm really careful about some of the stuff I say.
But I'm not afraid of anything because my opinion matters
just like theirs do.

Speaker 1 (26:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
But I think we start to understand is that it's
not what we say, it's the breaking them down of everything,
of every word, of parsing it, trying to like with.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
This no, yes, this is my favorite.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well, when I see shows like well this is what
he said, but this is what he meant, I'm like, no,
I know.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
What I meant.

Speaker 2 (27:19):
I said, yeah, I said, But I always laugh when
they say like, well he said this, but this is
what he mean, this is what he was trying to say.
I'm like, no, I said exactly what I meant to say.
It drives me crazy when I see when they not
mainly saying about me, but talking about other people. Well
this jock said this because Jim Rohm says something I

(27:40):
really love. He says, every time somebody says, I mean
no disrespect, you know what's coming next? Disrespect? Jim Jim Rome,
Who's I really like a lot.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
He said.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
He does a segment every week where he says that
he says, you know it's time for the disrespect moment,
and he always played a pong. Well, I mean, no
disresp he said, wait for it. You know what's coming next?
Disrespect and I love that when you played, were you
a trash talker? Not much, not much, not much because
I had to, you know, because I had too much

(28:11):
going on in my brain. Because when you're six '
five playing against a six eight guy, sixty nine guy,
six ' ten guy, I have to have a strategy,
you know. I say, I think if somebody says son
to me one time they went and looked at the numbers,
I'm the only person in the history of sports who
never played against anybody who was shorter than them. Because

(28:33):
I played center in college, right and then obviously in
an NBA, I'm always going to be the shortest guy
and shortest power forty yes in history. So I says,
I had so much going on in my brain. I'm like, Okay,
they bringing this guy in. He does this, well, he
does this, he plays me this way. Then they bring
the other guy in. I said, what he brings he
plays me this way, They're gonna do this.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
So I had so much going on in my brain.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I mean, because like I say, when you you can't
out talent, I mean, if you're Michael lebron Kobe Shaq,
you can out talent. Ninety nine percent of the guys
in the world. But when you're a six y five
power forward, you can't out talent people. I tell people

(29:20):
that you can't out talent people at my size. You
have to use your brain. Were you did you fight
a lot as a kid?

Speaker 1 (29:28):
No?

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Because I was too little. You can see that. That's
the thing that people don't understand. Like, I was always
small until I had the gros sperg. When you, like
I said, when you're a little dude, you can't be
going around fighting people. Can you gonna get your kids?
It was really you know, you know people always ask
me though about the gros spurg. Yeah, I never had
any pain, really, like when you go when you wake

(29:49):
up one day and you five ten and the next
day you six five, Like I never went through Like.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
It was really weird that never it never hurt me.
But could you tell that you had grown that much
over the summer?

Speaker 2 (30:03):
I did not know it. That's what's weird. The coach
said to me, you've grown over the summer. I think
I've grown a little bit. And then he said, like
you like six four and a half six five and
from five ten?

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:16):
And the best thing, though, Shannon, the best thing was
because The number one asset of my game was my
ability to dribble. Yes, because you can't post up guys
who are sixty nine six ten, but they don't want
to move their feet right, So when I played guard
all those years, that was probably the best asset to

(30:36):
me when I got to play against those big guys. Yeah, yeah,
because they them big dudes. The one thing it's hard
to post them up, but they can't move their feet
more than one or two times. And that was the
biggest asset of my game, my ability to dribble. If
you grow that much in a summer, I mean you're clothes,
you probably look like you have throw bodin brother. Well,

(30:56):
that's the one thing about being poor. You're just dropping down.
Oh so you weren't handisht You're hev me down because
you know we ain't gonna get no you know, you're
gonna get your one Super Easter. Yeah, you're gonna get
a couple of outfairs of Christmas. The rest of ourself
are gonna be hand me down.

Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
And also when you're in a small town, it's a
very close knit community. So when you get done with clothing,
it's always a name somebody get something. That's why I'll
always appreciate growing up in a small town. You know,
Kenny grew up in New York. I wouldn't want to
assure how my life would have been different if I
had grown up in New York. But growing up in

(31:35):
a small town, it really it was a surreally sense
of community. Community, Yes everybody, I mean, And that's what
when I'm on Nightcap and I try to tell people this,
it was always everybody was yes sir, no, sir, yes.

Speaker 1 (31:48):
Yes, no, ma'am.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
If you misbehave miss such and such, we tell your tale,
you're gonna get two whim and then she gonna go
home and say, Mary, I had to whip that boy
because he was being managed or he's he was cursing,
and then you got another whipping.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Yep, what happened to that sense of community?

Speaker 2 (32:03):
Other? You know, we we in the black community, we
just have to do better. We gotta Number one, Racism exists,
always has and always will, you know. I really, I look,

(32:27):
I tell people this. Sports are a great thing for
black kids. It's really helped a lot of us get
out of here and help them go back and make
things better.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
But you have to understand something.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
If you're born and it's white poor too, oh yeah,
because it's really economic racism, like calling people names and
stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
That's just silly and stupid.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
But economic racism is the biggest problem we have in
this country because if you're black and poor or white
and poor, you're gonna be born in a bad neighborhood.
You're gonna go to an inferior school. And I always
use this analogy. Yes, it's if you play baseball and
if every time you step up to the plate you
got two strikes against you. Yeah, shine up, gonna get

(33:11):
a hit, Chuck gonna get a hit, and we're gonna
have a couple little hits for most people are gonna
strike out, yes, or your fade to swing.

Speaker 1 (33:19):
Yeah, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
So I just think that we got to do a
better job of holding each other accountable and accept the
fact that, hey, it's a double standard.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
But you can never give up.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
You can never be like you know what, I'm tired,
because let's be realistic, it's still better than it used
to be. Yes, it ain't perfect, but it's still better
than it used to be.

Speaker 1 (33:42):
Check us out.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
When you got to auber you weigh three hundred pounds
the first two hundred days in college. It's reported that
you ordered one hundred pieces, but you led to SEC
in rebounding your three years you were there. You hold
the record for the career field goal percentage at almost
sixty three percent. You was SEC player of the Year
and the decade of the eighties, and you're a member
of the Alburns All Century Team.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
How dare you do that at three hundred.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Pounds, man, I had some serious talent, to be honest
with you, And like I say, the college game is
not near as fast, and you know, we just live
in a different generation a lot faster now. But you know,
you kind of unless you get a fast because when
teams score, you walking the ball up and down the court.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
And it was really interesting.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
One of my coaches, Roger Banks, I struggled, like the
first week I was in college.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
He says, son, what is your problem?

Speaker 2 (34:39):
Because I was twenty rebounds a game in high school
because I played with a really good high school team
and they never ran play. So I decided to get
my own. I had to get my own, and you
were passing the back guy, you got no. So we
had we had about eight players who got scholled. We
had really good teams. Yeah, we had really good sports
teams in my hometown. Because you know, a lot of
times when people in small towns they got like three

(35:01):
high schools. The one thing about my high school, we
got one high school. You go K to twelve with
the same group, so we always had good sports team.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Well you didn't go K to twelve in the same class,
did you? No? No, No, But I'm telling it was crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
You see the same people from K to twelve, and
it's so funny. How like we always had good team
in football and basketball, always had good team in football
and basketball.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
Did it never dawn on you? You're like, well, man,
I'm really killing it.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I'm getting the i'm playing, I'm averaging thirteen fourteen, fifteen points,
I'm getting ten, twelve rebounds. Man, if I lost a
few pounds, I might be able to bump that up
to do twenty fifteenth. Did I ever thought crock your
mind in college?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
No?

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Because when you when you know the toughest thing about
a player and you know this and a team kind
of happened to my Eagles this year when they got
off to like a ten and one start. A lot
of times where people don't understand when you're having six says,
you still need to get better as a player, as

(36:03):
a team and have because you can have bad habits,
but your team is so good you keep winning. So
I'm talking, I'm not sure, but like, I'm probably the
only freshman that ever leads to SEC and rebounding and
then I let it every year. So I'm not thinking
about flaws. I think I'm doing pretty good. Yeah, so

(36:25):
I'm not thinking about yo, man, lose weight. I'm like, yo,
I'm all SEC. I'm leading the league in rebound as
a freshman, as a sophomore, as a junior, and I'm like, no,
I'm good. And you know, actually, my coach tried to
get me to lose weight and we fought a little

(36:47):
bit early in my career. We're really close today because
I had to go back and apologize.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
I said, you know what, you were right, You were right.
I was wrong. I should have lost weight sooner. I
could have been better.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
But you know, we're all when you're eighteen and having success,
you don't you don't think anything.

Speaker 1 (37:03):
You good? Yeah yeah, So.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
I it goes back to my thing with Miss Gomez
and my dad, Like you know what.

Speaker 1 (37:14):
It's you. You know, I tell you.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
The one thing about being in the limelight, man, very
few people have the ability to say my fault, my bad. Yeah,
they ain't a whole lot of capability going on. It's
a lot of people kissing your Yeah. Very few people
have the ability to say, hey, you know what, it's
my fault, it's my bad. I was wrong, because, like
I said, you got so many people kissing you. You

(37:38):
got so many people on the payroll kissing you. It's like,
so you have to be self aware. And that's the
only thing I hate about life. All the dummies you did.
You get older, you get so much smarter and get
so much wisdom, and you go back, Man, what a
dummy I was.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
But nobody told you that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
But but but you you know, that's that's that's the
one thing about life that I that I really hate
that you don't learn all this smart stuff that you
get older, because there are so many people out there.
There's so many people out there who make mistakes that
they either die from or.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
Ruins their life.

Speaker 2 (38:15):
And if you get older, you're like, man, what I
did back then was dumb and stupid, and I wish
that more young kids would pick up talk to people
like you me because we've been through some stuff. Like
when I watch you all the time, you talk about
preparing for success. You talk about your time in Denver,

(38:38):
you talk about your time with the Ravens, about trying
to teach the young guys how to do things, take
care of them bodies and things like that. I tell
these guys that, Yo, man, it's like Zon. I like
Zon a lot does of you. He reminds me. I mean,
he's more, he's more athletic. But the sooner he gets

(38:59):
in shape, the better he's gonna be. Have you had
a conversation with him, No, but and I don't. I
don't know him, but I try to tell him that
on television. I hope he hears. And don't take it
as a criticism because like he he has got so
much talent. And you can't get in shape during the season. No,
you get in shape during the summer.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
And I've seen that he's lost about twenty five pounds.
That's what the report started. During the season. You gotta
do that during the summer because you got to be
ready to go when the season starts. Because he got man,
he is so explosive because that last game that he
got hurt in against the Lakers, that's the best I've
ever seen him play. But you, man, and listen, listen.

(39:43):
I got in shape for two million dollars. The money
these guys are making today, I'd be damn near an
arresting for.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
For thirty five dollars make fifty sixty I know. I mean,
they'd be like, we got to get charge to eat.
He's at rest.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
I was like, my first contract was four years, two
million dollars, and I said, I lost fifty pounds for
that type of money. I said, for thirty forty fifty
sixty million dollars. And they're like, your guys, Charge is
losing too much weight. He's we will have to make
sure he ain't a limit or something. I said, like,
But so man, I just hope he listens and don't
take it because guys who've been in this business, like

(40:24):
yourself and myself, man, this is it's just the best
job in the world. But sometimes you need to take
constructive criticism. But the problem is is that a lot
of time athletes and I've been one and now I'm
on the other side, is that we have people around
us that tell us what we wanted to hear, what
we need to know. Yes, And so a person that

(40:44):
tells you what you need to know, you're less apt
to move away from that persons and keep the people
that tell you what you want to hear around.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
They should tell him, they shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
He should see it because when I first saw him,
I say, he reminds me of Charles Barkley, but he's
more explosive. Yes, Chuck, but if he lost it, if
he got down to two fifty.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
They'd have to change.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
That'd be like because the thing he did against the
Lakers in that one game, he could do that every night.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
And it goes back to my original thing.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Like I could have a couple of good plays when
I was three hundred pounds, butn't sustain it. But I
couldn't sustain it. When I got to fifty, I can
sustain it. And I could go the next day and
the next day, the next day. And I hope you
know these guys, And I hate to be the old
man because when you say something or I say something,
we hate what we hate, or we the old get

(41:36):
all my long guys. I'm like, no, we know how
this story ends. I says, let me tell you something.
I know how every NBA story is gonna end. I
played against Bird, I played against Magic, Kareem Michael. You
know I play like I know what it takes to
be successful, and no, you know what it takes to
be great? Yes, And you know the thing is, it's like,

(41:59):
let's talk about drugs. I had a younger brother who
was a junkie who died at a young age. When
I talked to these young kids in high school to
college about drugs, I said, yo, man, it ain't a matter.
If it's a matter when you know, it broke my
mom's heart. It broke my heart for a long time.
I said, yo, man, I don't understand why you gotta

(42:19):
do drugs.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
I just don't get it.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
And I almost did cocaine one time, because you know,
I had put my brother in a bunch of rehabs
and I was like, what's what's the petition? And I
talked to one of my boys. I says, yo, man,
I want you to get me some cocaine. And he says, Charles,
she's sucking nuts. I says, man, my brother he gonna
die at some point. And I ain't never had something

(42:46):
so strong that I would give up the NBA or
my money, saying, you know, I gotta do.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Drugs and he knows it's killing him, but he can't
stop me.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Catch up John Lucas, who's a great, great man, he said,
He said, Chuck lem gonna tell you something about it.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
The junkie.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
He says, if I put a million dollars on this
table cash and a pile of cocaine over there, or
a crack or whatever you want to say, a junkie
would not say, Man, I can buy a lot of
cocaine with that money, he gonna go right for that
pile over there.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Wow. And my brother died. I think he was forty
when he died.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
He got his life together, he got his life together,
but he had done so much damage to.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
His body and it just gave out.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
And when I talk to these kids, I said, oh, man,
it ain't a matter if. It's just a matter of when.
If you're doing this drug thing, it's somebody. You're finally
gonna get a call one night that it's over. And
that I felt so bad for my mom because she
never got over it, never got over it. You come

(43:48):
out the nineteen ninety four Draft now eighty four draft,
the eighty four draft Michael Jordan, John Stopping, Charles Barkla,
Keim Elijah Wan the first three with call of fa,
I mean LOGI one with I think he went first, Yes,
Jordan went third, sample lamboy with second. Y'all had Hall

(44:08):
of famers, the eighty five draft Karmelone, Patrick Ewing and
Chris Mullins, Charles Oakley, Joe Dumars, eighty seven David Robinson,
Reggie Miller, Scotty Miller, Scottie Pippin, Hardest, Mark Jackson, Muggsy Bowl,
ninety sixth draft, Kobe Ray, Allen, Steve Nash, Allen, Ivericks
Alon Everson's, Stefan Marrer, Deak Fisher, and obviously the two
thousand and three draft, Lebron d Wade, Chris Bosh, mellow

(44:29):
All Hall of Famer. What's the best draft? Well, I
don't know if you can say who's the best draft?
You know, I get an example why I say that,
Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Dan Marino during the conversation of

(44:53):
the greatest quarterbacks ever and Pat Mahomes only ascending. Yeah,
those guys ain't never gonna be knitter record books in
five to ten years, and there are some of the
best ever to do it.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
The games have.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Changed, the rules have changed, doesn't make better or worse,
it's just different. Should we consider that when we're talking
about greatness because of the rule change in footballer, I
think you have to, like, I don't care who think
about this. There's probably gonna be ten quarterbacks in the
next five years. It's gonna shatter all the records, and

(45:31):
they're gonna be one third the player Tom Brady, Joe Montana,
Dan Marino, Drew Brees, Peyton Manning. Those guys are gonna
be They probably won't think about it in ten fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (45:44):
No, probably won't even be that long.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
They won't even be in the top ten yardages and
touchdown passes because the rules have changed, and it's obviously
just now number one. They're gonna pass it more a
lot more. But also defensive are handicap right now. Also,
so all the players you mentioned are great, great, great,
But it is just a lot easier to play basketball

(46:08):
because I tell people, Michael, I played well.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
You played them boys from the Pistons.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
We used always say call your family, telling me love
them and goodbye, because there was a chance you wasn't
gonna make it out.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
They were trying to hurt people.

Speaker 2 (46:29):
They had six guys who used their files. You know,
it's so crazy that when I was watching that the
documentary or the Last Dance, some of those files will
get you suspended for ten games today. Oh absolutely, yeah, yes, yeah,
there was just one Bob back then, ye, Bill Lamber.
Bill Lamber would have been out of the lead at

(46:49):
least thirty games. At least he was delivered with Heyes,
ain't the same thing with Mahorn, John Sally, Dennis Rodman.
I mean, think about you and you go back and
uh because Lambert, all the guys, so.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
The rules have changed. They're not like I say.

Speaker 2 (47:06):
I don't ever say things are better, but all these
guys are great. And I was blessed to play in
the generation because the two most important figures in NBA
history of magic Johnson Larry Berg. If it wasn't for
those two guys, and race has something to do with that, Yes,

(47:29):
Reece has something to do with that.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Drew line.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
But it's still the best thing that ever happened to
the NBA. It is because before the end, the average
salary then was two hundred thousand dollars when Magic and
Bird came in confirms it was too.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Black, two thuggish, too drug infest and we were tape delayed.
People don't realize that.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
They don't even know that NBA Finals was don tape
the lake and Seanne, you got one game a week
on say you did?

Speaker 1 (48:00):
I remember, you got one game a week.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
On Sunday and people, now you can go. You can
watch the game seven days a week. We own all
the game, all the games. I said, no, you don't
understand this, And like I said, it was a long
time ago.

Speaker 1 (48:15):
But think about it.

Speaker 2 (48:16):
The finals were take were tape the league and that
was only one game on Sunday, and the average salary
was two hundred thousand dollars. The average salary now is
ten million dollars. We got what's gonna be crazy. We
got three NBA players, I think three or four are
making sixty million dollars a year. In the next five years,

(48:37):
we're gonna have guys making seventy eighty nine. First, it's
gonna be crazy eighty a year, jump eighty a year
to play basketball. And what's crazy shallow? That's how old
I am. I remember vividly me Doc Moses Barbie Johns
Andrew Tony that we're in the locker room one day

(48:59):
and it broke the magic. Johnson had been the first
NBA player to make a million dollars. We were walking
around high five in each other. We could not believe,
we could not believe that an NBA player made a
million dollars.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And I'm like, and.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
I'm with Doc and Moses now, who are all time greats.
They're high five of each other. They're like, we can't
believe an NBA player making a million dollars. That's how
that's how crazy it was thinking about money back in
the day. Wow It says it was reported that you
didn't want to go to Philly so bad that in
a forty eight hours span, you ate two Denny Grand

(49:37):
Slam breakfasts, six pancakes. Bacon told him about sixteen hundred calories,
a vanilla milkshake, Kentucky fried chicken, bucket, mashed potatoes, coleslaw,
half the menu at Red Lobster, two McDonalds fish bilades,
large fries.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
I don't know why to hear you ate had a
died coach to wash it down.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Two takes of save barbecue sandwich is a t bow steak,
baked potato, three desserts. Repeated it for the next day
game twenty pounds also while drinking.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
What the hell you could kill yourself. You could have
went to a pool Tooma.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
I could have been poor too. No, so you know
they had a really hard cap, right. So I'm with
my agent, so I you know, you do your visits. Yeah,
the owner of the seventy six, it says, put me
on the scale. I'm wearhing about two ninety five. This

(50:27):
is about a month before the draft. He says, you know,
we're concerned about your weight. I said, well, well, I'm
gonna get in shape, I think. But whatever, blah blah blah.
He said, we want you to weigh We want you
to lose ten pounds. We want you to come in
the day to draft, stopping Philly on your way to

(50:49):
New York for the draft.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
So I go train for a month down in the Houston.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
I think at the time I'm weighing about two eighty two,
two eighty three somewhere in there. I don't know if
that's gonna happen in the month. No, I got down.
It was only like twelve pounds. Oh, he wanted you
to get the two.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Eighty okay, yes, okay, he says, we want you to
get to eighty five.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
So I go down to Houston train for a month
and I'm like, too, eighty two, and we get on
the scale. He says, Now, truck, we have a problem.
That's what's the problem. He says, Well, the sixers are
over there at the cap. They can only give you
a one year deal for seventy five thousand dollars. I said,
I didn't leave college for five thousand dollars. Are y'all crazy?

(51:37):
He says, Well, I don't know what to tell you.
He says, sixers want to take you. I said, I
don't want to. I said, I didn't leave college for
one year for seventy five thousand.

Speaker 1 (51:46):
What if I get hurt.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I'm trying to take care of my family, set my
family up for financial for life. He says, well, if
the sixth draft, you're going to sign a one year
deal for seventy five thousand. I said, what can we do?
He says, well, we're stopping in Philly on the way
to New York.

Speaker 1 (52:01):
Man. We went right to Dennis. I got a grand slam.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
I counseled workouts for the next two days, I got
me a grand Slam.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
We went out.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
I got me some shakes, went to a big steakhouse
the night before, got me the big t bone, got
me some fries, got me a big old.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Piece of cake. Did the same thing. The next day.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I get back to Philly. We stopped. I'm two ninety eight.
The owner team called me, walked up, walked up. Me
and my ages look at each other like, thank god,
we dodged a bullet. And if you go back and
look at my face and out of the draft and
that sweet burging the shot, I might add. Man when

(52:52):
they said with the number five pick, the sev seventy
sixth select Charles Barkley, the look on my face, I'm
in shock, and I'm thinking, damn, I left college with
seventy five thousand dollars. I got to be the biggest
fool in the world. And so we go down the
Philly and he says, you know, go to the summer League.

(53:20):
And I said, well, I got no choice. So I
go to the Summer League and I started just whipping
I do. I was like, I got this. And he says, Okay,
we're gonna trade some players because we're not gonna make
you sign a one year deal, and they traded Franklin
at work and I think Mark ivor RONI and my

(53:41):
first year, my first deal was four years, two million dollars.
You was on the court when Doc and Larry got
into it. What calls that man? First of all, I
hate the NBA for that reason. They owe me five
thousand dollars. I'm still pissed to this day because the
one thing I would never do, this hole a guy

(54:02):
for another guy to hit him.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
And I've been mad.

Speaker 2 (54:05):
I'm still Madress Day yawed me five thousand dollars out
of Severn. So Larbrary was a great trash talker and
he's like, Charles, y'all better get this old man off me,
I'm telling you, And he's just roasting Doc. He's like,
and this is doc last year. I think he was right.

(54:27):
It was last year of the year before he's killing
Doc and he's like, Chuck, I'm telling you for the
last time, you better get over here because I'm gonna
kill this old man. And it goes on up and
down and he Larry's just killing him and Doc had
just had enough and I just had them. They come

(54:47):
together and I just kind of grabbed Larry. I'm not
even looking at Doc when I went back and looked
at the tape, Doctor nailing his eyes.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
I was just trying to pull guys apart. Yeah, but
you know, you can't fight.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
You can't grab one unless somebody, hey, you grab him.

Speaker 1 (55:02):
I grabbed Larry because I didn't want him hitting Doc.
But ain't nobody grabbed Doc.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
I know, I know, but but you just said something.
If I grabbed Doc and Larry started pummling, I ain't.
I can't go back to Philly, right, I can't.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
Go back to Philly.

Speaker 2 (55:15):
So I grabbed Larry to stop him from hitting Doc,
and Doc welling away. But it started because Doc was
like Larry's like, yo, man, y'all better get and he's
screaming it too. Everybody here, y'all better get this old
man off me. I'm gonna kill him out here. Larry's wanted,
I tell you. Lara Brary was one of the best
trash talkers ever. So one of my teammates, Leon Wood

(55:35):
was great. He's an NBA official now. So we in
the room getting ready for the three point contest at
an All Star game. Larry walks in says, which one
of y'all gonna come in second place. Y'all heard me,
which one of y'all gonna come in second place? Like damn,

(55:59):
that was like my first real talk to him. Oh
that sounded pretty aggressive. He won though he won. I
mean he was he was. He was one of the
best at trash talking. Man. When he came in there
and said that you could have heard a pan drop,
everybody's all excited and everythingybody, yeah, we get Larry Walker
and said, which one y'all gonna come in the same

(56:19):
place second place?

Speaker 1 (56:20):
You could have heard a pan drop?

Speaker 2 (56:23):
You probably played when you look at the era in
which you played Magic Bird, kareem Ya, Michael Elijahuan Patrick Robinson.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
Yeah, what was that era like?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Because that was that that era made it possible for
this era. And I don't know if this era gives
that era enough credit, and maybe that era doesn't give
this era enough credit. Well, that's a great question. We
should always give credit to the guys who came before us, always,

(56:58):
because if it won for those guys, nobody will be
y'all making this money. Because y'all were born at the
right time. You're not better than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson,
Larry Birdy, Kareem, Bill Russell. You're not better than those guys.
Let me ask you this, let me push back those guys,

(57:20):
but I'm saying average. If you look at the teams now,
guys are more skilled. You have more guys that can
shoot the equivalent of Reggie and Larry Yes on a team.
Just to be appreciative of that was that generation. Okay,
I got number of love for these young guys because
number one, they're great, yes, but they should always have

(57:42):
great appreciation for the older guys because those guys did
all the heavy lifting.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
It's kind of like being black.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
In my opinion, I have so much love for older
black people, absolutely, because I don't know what it's like
for people to spray me with a water holes the dog,
the dog, or tell me we're taping this.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
In the four seasons, we couldn't have been here.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
They said, take your black up to the Motel six
and do this interview, like if you can't. Every time
I meet an older black person again, example, one of
my mentor was Jill Morgan. Okay, he called his dad
one day. He said, Dad, we're gonna meet Jackie Robinson tomorrow.
He said, what do I say, he says, just tell
him thank you. And I think every time I meet

(58:34):
an older black person, I want to say thank you
because y'all did all the heavy lifting. Y'all did all
the heavy lifting what they had to do. I can't
and and I can't even imagine, like I can go
to any restaurant I want to.

Speaker 1 (58:49):
I can say in a hotel, I want to.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
I don't even know what it's like when people say, well,
you can't stay here, you or good to the back
of the bus, the bus or the movie theaters. I'm
old enough to remember the movie The Black set up top. Yeah,
you couldn't sit down load. I'm old enough. I do
remember that. And that's and and so that's and so
the analogy of every basketball player today just say, yo, man,

(59:12):
I want to thank you.

Speaker 1 (59:13):
Not even me because I made a good living.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
But every time I made an older guy, I was like, yo, man,
thank you for what you did for me. But every
time I meet Magic and Bird, I tell them guys, man,
thank y'all, because because in sports there are a lot
of great players, but there's only a few guys who.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Moved to Needlem.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Correct Like in golf there are a lot of great
players today, but Jack Nicholas, n A Palmer, Gary player,
Phil Mickens.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
And Tiger Woods.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Those guys took the sport to a whole nother level.
And like, there are a lot of great players, but
very few players are like, Oh, I got to watch
that guy on television. We gonna we need to do
the TV deal because of that guy. And all you
want from any generation is number one to leave it better.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
Correct.

Speaker 2 (01:00:05):
Like, I'm disappointed in these guys today with this low management.
I said, yo, man, first of all, we're not teachers,
we're not nurses, we're not in the service.

Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
People who work like hard every day.

Speaker 2 (01:00:22):
Yeah, we play a stupid basketball game for three or
four days a week. You're not gonna play more than
three or four days a week. You're gonna make thirty
forty million, sixty million. I'm pretty sure the nurse don't
want to go to work sometime. You gave low manage.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
You can't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I'm pretty sure teachers can't load manage. I says, man,
just play basketball. You got the best shoes. Can you
imagine Bill Russell playing in those canvas shoes? Taylor Chuck
Taylor's can.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
You imagine can you imagine no support.

Speaker 2 (01:00:55):
No support, and they played every game for three thousand
dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
You can't just like, of course you're sore. I'm pretty
sure doctors and nurse is are sore.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
But man, just to be appreciative, how lucky and blessed
we are to do something stupid and make a gazillion dollars.
How different would your career have been if you weren't
drafted and played in the era of Michael Jordan? Do
you want a title? That's a great question. I don't know,

(01:01:27):
but I'm glad I played in his era because number one,
you want to play in a great player, the greatest
or you know, it's a debate between him and Lebron.
Some people still think, Kareem, you want to play in
that because number one, what Michael did. Going back to
what we were talking about, how respect for the oldest generation.
If it wasn't for Michael, we wouldn't I wouldn't make

(01:01:51):
millions of dollars from Nike a year, right, Lebron Kobe
wouldn't make millions of dollars from Nike a year. If
it went to Michael Jordan, we all wouldn't have commercials.
People act like athletes always did commercials.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
No. Number one.

Speaker 2 (01:02:07):
None of us had a shoe deal until Michael. None
of us shot commercials until Michael. So whether you want
to debate who's the greatest, that guy is the reason
we make That's the reason I think about this. And
when I was in it was really fun in that
movie Air because I mean, I'm technically in the movie
because me and Michael in the same generations, his mom

(01:02:29):
and dad having the foreth thoughts to say he gonna
get a piece of a shoe, and then Matt Damon
who plays son and says, well, we don't do.

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
It like that. Miss Jordan said, yeah, we do it
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
And because of that, I made millions of dollars from Nike,
just from and also from my significant shoe.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
So I lost to Michael Jordan.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
It would have been great and the only thing I
ever felt bad about, trying to be honest, I couldn't
win the seventy six or not the seven six, the
signs a championship because in Philly they had one, in
Houston they had one. I have always felt bad that
I wasn't able to bring a championship.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Defeatis because that's my home they gave me. When I
got traded there, my life just changed.

Speaker 2 (01:03:28):
Dramatically, because, man, all I wanted was some help, because
when you're a great player, man, it's hard to go
out there, you know. Because there's a couple of things
that happened to me that really because I was getting
so depressed in Philly, because I was saying to myself, Damn,
I suck as a basketball player. I says we never well,

(01:03:49):
says we get beat in the first round every year.
And I'm like, I know I'm great, but our team
wasn't very good. But because I'm like, hell, man, and
I'm having my private moments and I'm talking to my friends,
I'm like, man, am I not good at basketball?

Speaker 1 (01:04:06):
I think I'm great? Blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
And then when they called me for the Dream Team,
I was like, Damn, I am pretty good.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
I'm like, I am good to thank you, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
And then when I got traded to Phoenix, they gave
me Dan Marley and Kevin Johnson.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
And Mark West, those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:23):
I'm like, because when I got there that first day,
I said, guys, I think I'm the best basketball player
in the world. We're gonna play the Bulls for the championship.
Michael Jordan just has some more help. I'm just as
good as him. They look at me like I'm crazy.
They're like what I said, I think I'm the best
basketball player in the world. Y'all gonna find out right now,

(01:04:47):
because we're gonna go out here and start kicking somebody, right.
I told them at the first day, and there was
a turning point in the season, and I know Michael, well,
we got off to a good start. We play the
Bulls and he just kick out and I was saying
to myself, he know we're gonna play them in the finals.
He wanted to send us a message. So after the game,

(01:05:09):
I told him, I said, guys, we got to get better.
That guy sent me a message tonight and I didn't
like the message, but I received it. Yeah, I received it.
And then we went on like a twelve thirteen game
winning streak, finished with the best record of the NBA,
get to the finals, and I said, I get the
chance to prove my point. And I'll tell you that's

(01:05:31):
the first time in my life I felt like I said, damn,
that guy's better at basketball than me. Because I had
my chance to showdown at the OK Corral, and.

Speaker 1 (01:05:44):
So no I was.

Speaker 2 (01:05:45):
It was an honor, same thing I say, but Bird
in Magic Kareem, it was just a great time. This
concludes the first half of my conversation. Part two is
also posted and you can access it to whichever podcast
platform you just listened to. Part going on Just simply
go back to club profile and I'll see you there.