CZM Rewind: The Civil War Within the Civil War: How the South Won the War for the Union

Original Air Date: May 16, 2022

Margaret talks with Prop about how people escaping slavery turned the tide of the American Civil War and how the South was anything but united.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, and welcome to Cool People who did cool stuff.
I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this is a flashback week,
which just means we're gonna rerun something because Cool Zone
Media has the week off because people fought and died
for days off or even entire weeks off. Sometimes it's

(00:20):
called vacation. This week, I'm going to rerun the Civil
War within the Civil War with prop as the guest,
because it was the second episode we ever aired and
it's one of my favorites. And so if you've never
gone back and listened to the old episodes, here's your
chance to listen to it. And if you have already
listened to it, I have absolutely not gone through and

(00:41):
interspersed different Easter eggs for you to find. That has
not happened, but I will say this week or very soon,
I have yet another game that is going to kickstart
called Defenders of the Wild. It is a board game
and then I helped with the role playing game side
of it, and that also comes with a complete role
playing game system and you can find it on Kickstarter

(01:03):
you by searching Defenders of the Wild by Outlandish Games.
Here's an episode. Hello and welcome to Cool People Who
Did Cool Stuff, which is, of course the only podcast
that clearly says what it's about in the title, leaves
no room at all for confusion about its contents. Nope,
I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and each week I'm going

(01:24):
to bring you another story about rebellion, resistance and all.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
The cool people who did cool stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
My guest this week is Prop, who I believe you're
a poet, an mc and activist and you're also the
host of Hood Politics.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Nailed it great. How are you doing today? Man? I'm
all right, it's pretty hot out here. I'm I'm good.

Speaker 3 (01:45):
You know, I'm apprehensive because I'm so nervous about any
any pod that somebody says is like it's kylic bastards
and I'm like, but reverse, and I'm like, ow, I'm
just nervous. I'm going on comany in blind Yeah, I'm
saying Margaret, Yeah, but I'm here for the ride.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
All right, all right, And we have Sophie on the
call to Sophie, how are you doing.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
I'm good. I'm excited to have Prop here for this one.
I think I think he'll enjoy it. And I mean
that like, I'll actually think you'll enjoy this. Okay, when
you're on bassards rou I'm like, oh, this is going
to be a good one, which means it's not going
to be a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Yeah, which means oh, you're going to enjoy this. I'm like,
oh yeah, murder, murder, murder, racism, So enjoy it.

Speaker 4 (02:28):
So and so, Margaret, what are we talking about today?

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well, there is there is murder and racism, but it's
not from the point of view of the people who
do the murder and the races.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
So because this week we're going to talk about this
war you might have heard of, called the Civil War,
the US Civil War, but specifically yeah, yeah, but specifically
I'm going to talk about the civil war within the
civil war, okay, which, if you write it out and
you put it in between, is the civil civil war war.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
And I'm going to talk about Well done, Thank you,
old y'all. Pause, foot at that was great, Okay, I
am now impressed. Like again, I was apprehensive. I know
what I was getting into. But the civil civil war war,
that's brilliant. Yeah, I like that.

Speaker 2 (03:21):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
And so we're going to talk about the basically how
there was a civil war within the Civil War, there
was a race and a class revolt against the white Confederates. Yeah,
and so in the first half, we're going to talk
about the ways that a lot of different black people
in the South pot for their own freedom, whether under
the US flag or not under the US flag. And

(03:43):
we're going to talk about how the South wasn't a
unified place and support of the Confederacy, and how all
types of people from the South basically were like, well,
fuck this Confederacy thing and fought against it.

Speaker 2 (03:54):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
And in the second half, we're going to talk about
the Lowry Gang, who're an indigenous led guerrilla insurgency in
northwest Carolina.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
Let's go, all right, let's go.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
I also, dude, you know what, I'm glad I'm on this,
you know, for a number of reasons. But one I
think it's like, obviously it's so timely with like you know,
adding Ukraine to the list of like conflicts and wars
across the world right now. But like the idea that
like you can't just you know, say, it's not like

(04:27):
everybody in Russia is down with this, you know what
I'm saying, And it's like it's good to remember that
when you start, like, you know, making your like sort
of American versions of like good guys and bad guys
to be like, yo, do you.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Agree with everything your country do?

Speaker 3 (04:43):
So why you think why you think anywhere else would
be the same, you know what I'm saying, Like or
wouldn't be the same, Like people say everybody ain't down
with what you know they government do or what they
saw do. Like so I think that this is I'm
glad that this is coming up because that mugg is like, like, yo,
like be realalistic about what you're watching, you know what
I'm saying, And it's that like, well, man, no.

Speaker 5 (05:03):
I think China really, I think China loves China, you
know what I'm saying, Like, yeah, they gon't do what
we do where it's like I'm not gonna let you
talk about us, but you know what I'm saying, Yeah,
but nah, it's full be on some bullshit, you know.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah anyway, no, no, and like and it's even true
on the other side too, right, like because the North
was not like yeah, I mean you got the bad
guys in the story the Confederacy are the bad guys,
Like I'm not going to tend anything else other than that. No, no, no, no,
but the North is like, well some of them are
good guys and assholes too, you know.

Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yeah, yeah, just because you lived up there, you know
what I'm saying that somehow your locale means that you
think differently, like nah man, yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
So the So the Civil War, it runs from eighteen
sixty one to eighteen sixty five. It kills six hundred
and twenty thousand people, which, to put that number in perspective,
that's half again as many Americans died in World War Two,
or two thirds as many as have died from COVID
as of the time we're recording this.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
Sheesh.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
But uh, Civil War starts because eighteen sixty Abraham Lincoln
got elected on a new States out West, shouldn't be
Slave states platform and a bunch of rich white people
in the slave States didn't like that, so they succeeded.
The North said now you're not allowed to do that,
and then in eighteen sixty one, ya.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
Have a war.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
And to be clear, and I don't know what did
you get taught growing up that the Civil War was
about slavery?

Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, yes, I mean, I'm remember I'm in California, and
some black panther from the inner city. So I absolutely ay,
was thought this was about slaves.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
That's that is better than the education I received, dude,
I tell you man.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
Like when I heard people like it was like, it's
the other way around, where like you know, obviously from
your section, like for somebody you to become a full
grown adult and somebody would be like, no, this is
about slavery, and how y'all probably like in y'all's area,
was like, what, No, it's about states rights? You Like,
I felt the other way around when somebody actually said

(07:01):
what was about to say, He's like.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
What what are you talking about? Yeah? Like you who
told you that states rights to do?

Speaker 4 (07:07):
What?

Speaker 2 (07:07):
This is a big question? That was like that's what
I was thinking. I was like, you hear yourself.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
States rights to own sly, don't I get seriously? You know?

Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yeah? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:19):
And so I will argue that the entire South, white
and black new is about slavery. Then the North wasn't
sure about what it was about. For a lot of
the North, a lot of the white North and obviously
all the black North, A lot of the white North
knew is about slavery, but some of the white North
was fighting for like, you're not allowed to break away,
fuck you, And some of them were even arguing. I've

(07:40):
read some scholars arguing that some of them were fighting
to free the poor whites in the South. But the
Confederates knew what the fuck they were fighting for. They
were fighting for slavery.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
There's no question they didn't know.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, so the start of this war, the Confederates, they're outnumbered,
just proof that just because you're the underdog doesn't make
you a better person. And they have little industrial production
so they can't make their own weapons. Really, but they
have this advantage that they're fighting on their home territory,
and then since their population's more rural, more of the
soldiers come in, better horse riders and better shots, so

(08:13):
they have some advantages. But they have one big disadvantage
because their entire economy. You probably know this, and probably
the audience knows this. The entire economy of the South
relied on slavery and repressing people. It turns out takes
constant attention. Yes, and all their best fighters suddenly went

(08:37):
off to war. Yes, So this is going to bring
us to a woman named Rose from South Carolina.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
Well, saw a Rose okay.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
And so at the beginning of the war, the Union
didn't let black folks in as soldiers, right, But it
turns out you don't actually need anyone's permission to kill
slavers or steal all their shit, or grind their economy
at a halt, or help everyone run the fuck away.
You could just do it. It's cool and good. It
is always morally correct. Yeah, and so people realized that

(09:08):
it was actually this this woman Rose. She's one of
my favorite stories in all of us, but she's actually
one of the hardest to get any information about. This
Historian Favolia Glymph is the only historian I found who's
collected information about this woman because the only primary sources
we have are all of the terrified white women writing
in their diaries. How fucking scared they are. This woman

(09:28):
named Rose.

Speaker 4 (09:30):
Story name is like, it's so classic, it is so
it is.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah, it's perfect name, Glymph, you said, yeah, perfect name.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:43):
I was definitely gonna want to put a pin in
her name too. So but I'm glad you did, Healfie,
because that's that's quite a name. Also, terrified white women
journals is like the thing that just doesn't die.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
God, they seriously like all journals are like, I can't
sleep at night. I'm up at four am writing this
note because I'm so terrified of the Negroes and the Yankees,
and specifically I'm afraid of this you know, Rose that
is leading an insurrection.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
In their town. Yes, so so.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Pineville, South Carolina is this like small resort town. It's
basically sixty summer homes for like the rich fock slavers
when they're like taking breaks from their plantations. But with
the Civil War, a lot of the families moved their
full time okay, and basically saw as this place of
refuge against to hide from the war. And they tried
to bring like all the people they claim to own,

(10:35):
but most of them were like, no, we're not going
to come with you.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Fuck you.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
You have no means with which to compel us to
come with you, so fuck.

Speaker 2 (10:40):
Off to oversee you going at war?

Speaker 3 (10:44):
Yeah you you ninety two years old and your wife
keep catching the vapors every time it gets too hot.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
No, we not going I love it. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
And some people did go, and then they kind of
just didn't work, or everyone who went there just refused
to work and then this was happening all over the South.
I want to use this. This is one of my
examples because it ties into this other thing. The socialist
author W. E. B. Du Bois is the first person
I've heard of really talk about this. In his nineteen

(11:17):
thirty five book Black Reconstruction. Basically, he claims that the
thing that won the Civil War was the most powerful
general strike the US has ever seen, which was the
Confederate economy was just completely gutted as black workers, as
he refers to them as black workers withhold their labor
from the Confederates and then offer it for a wage
to the union. And half a million black workers ended

(11:42):
up working for a wage at union camps. And then,
I mean, under really shitty conditions. And we're going to
get into this, but.

Speaker 3 (11:48):
Yeah, I think that, like, I'm glad you kind of
like landing there, because I think like the you know,
when you think about the arc of somebody like an
Abraham Lincoln, and arc of like the country finally falling
into secession and then accepting the fact that like, okay,
this is about slaves, like like finally letting themselves say

(12:09):
it out loud, like what we already do? You know
what I'm saying when you take a slaver that was like,
I mean, it's just it's just way too much money
on the table. Like I'm being as obviously, I'm like,
this is me being a slave descendant, just understanding like
what's happening in this moment in time when you like
looking man, that that cotton crop like it, I mean

(12:29):
you're talking about the the the entire like makes more
than every other commodity in the country combined, Like when
you add it all together just from that because you
ain't paying the workers.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
You know what I'm saying, this is this is pure profit.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
You know what I'm saying, you know, notwithstanding the investment
to get the get and feed as small as you can,
you know, the slavery, the slave that you had, and
you could take somebody who might have been in the
beginning like on.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Some like.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
A I know, I just kind of like close my
eyes and do it. I mean, ye, that kind of sucks,
but I'm like, I'm just one guy. I mean, you know,
you're in the ocean. You might as well swim. I
mean it sucks, but like here, what's a loon of money?

Speaker 2 (13:10):
You know what I'm saying, and then at first check
come and you're like nah, fam nah this much. Look
you can't get it. Look, look I'm.

Speaker 3 (13:17):
Sorry, sorry, not sorry, you know what I'm saying, Like,
and how that evolution of just being like and then
then the whole like, well, it's it's too big to fail,
Like I mean, it's you know, you if we shut
this down, you shut down the whole country, Like there's
no it's the biggest of what do you want us
to do, dude, just the biggest money maker, you know
what I'm saying. And that evolution of like assuming that

(13:37):
at some point, like you said, my ancestors would be like,
uh nah.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Yeah, I mean what worse can you do to us? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (13:50):
You know yeah yeah no, And and du Bois makes
the argument, I have no counter argument. I believe this
whole heartedly. This is what fucking wins the war on
the end more than anything else. Yeah, black workers refusing
to work, also, black soldiers fighting, but.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
Black soldiers, yeah in it and being still paid less yeah,
less food, still being treated like you know, really human,
but carrying the work, you know what I'm saying. But yeah,
like absolutely yep, who's being like, well, hit you in
your pocket?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:21):
And in the end, as so people would flee, especially
once as the Union would come through the South, they'd
be like, yep, and they cross the lines. In the end,
apparently twelve percent of the South's labor pool, I guess
you could call it. They just fuck off and they
cross Union lines. But then further historians have argued that
it's not just the people who left who did this work,

(14:42):
who did this general strike. So in Pineville, South Carolina,
it's happening everywhere, It's happening everywhere. When folks on Pineville,
South Carolina in eighteen sixty five, in the very last
months of the war, this woman named Rose is an
enslaved house servant. She has at least two grown up kids.
There's very little known about it, right, but she frees
herself and then she doesn't fuck off across the Union lines.
She sticks around to help fight and organize. And she

(15:06):
was probably the leader of the insurrection along with her
son Pringle.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
And we know that what Pringle. Yeah, man's name is Pringle.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, I looked it up at way pre date. Springles.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
I was gonna again another name that I was like,
I'm gonna let this pass because he let a slave revolt,
So I'm not going to drag you. I'm not going
to drag you right like I think it's yeah, yeah,
it's like, you know, two hundred years later, the association
with the chips.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
You know what I'm saying. But he could say my
name is Pringle because I get all the chips. You
know what I'm saying. Yeah, I made him a rapper.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
You did, you did, and I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
So this insurrection they lead, it leads hundreds of people
to safety during the time before the Union army even approaches.
And then by the time at one point the Union
army like sweeps through really quickly. They don't actually conquer
the area, but they get a thousand people across the
line when that happens. And then it's hard to tell
how much it was a quiet insurrection versus a loud one.

(16:07):
A lot of it was that people just refused work,
slowed down. A lot of them gave themselves quotas like oh,
I'm going to do half a task per day, so
they were like working just fast enough and.

Speaker 2 (16:17):
They love it.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yeah, and there's no one around to compel their labor,
right because yeah, all the white dudes are off fighting
the war. Yeah, and at its peak, this insurrection has
the run of the town. The scared white folks hide
in their houses and write in their journals while black
folks are drilling in the streets and military formation.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
And they stole whatever they needed from the people who've
been stealing from them their whole fucking lives. And it's
just kept spreading miles and miles in every direction. People
kept coming here, and eventually Confederate armies like, all right,
we have to fucking do something about this, and so
they send these these scouts, who are the gorilla troops
for the Confederate Army. The Union Army has scouts too,
but they're the official gorillas and they go around do

(16:59):
the dirty work. And so they round up and kill
a bunch of the leaders this insurrection. They don't get
Pringle or Rose yet, and they force everyone back to work,
and this kind of turns into this protracted, slow guerrilla
war between the scouts and the insurrection, and eventually it
keeps going on long enough that the Confederate Army has
to send an entire company of cavalry, which is like
one hundred cavalrymen could have been off fighting the war

(17:22):
and instead of to keep going to fight this civil
war happening within the South.

Speaker 2 (17:26):
They have a big battle.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
It goes really badly for Rose and Pringle and the
rest of them. Twenty to thirty of them die and
they only managed to injure some of the cavalrymen, and
Pringle and Rose get found and executed. But even though
they lose this specific battle, this is after they freed
you know, the record I see as like implying at

(17:48):
least thirteen hundred people.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Right, wow, and so knows that many?

Speaker 1 (17:52):
Yeah, like, yeah, that seems like an all right, you know,
like the.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
Mathos And I'm positive that, like I know, like.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
Those executions were burutal, like they were like trying to
you know, they try to make a statement when they
capture somebody that like led.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
You know, other people to freedom.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
So I already know, like, even without knowing her particular story,
I already know the way they killed them two was
public and disgusting.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah, it was, and which I mean leads to
the argument that dying in the streets fighting, you know,
seems nice.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
It's still pretty rad like it just yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
And then so the end, the Union Army of course
it doesn't have their backs at all. There's Lincoln's like
Rules of War that he wrote specifically called this type
of thing. It's qualified the same as piracy or banditry.
But they still do all this awesome shit. Yeah, so
let's go Rose, And speaking of Pringle and potato chips,

(19:01):
I'm trying to get sponsored by really wholesome products on
this show, and so our official sponsor, I believe, our
only official sponsor all the other ads you here are
unofficial and they're not allowed, is potatoes.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
The concept of potatoes.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
I'll take that because, like you know, I just I
just listened to three hours on a potato famin So
how good potatoes are? You know?

Speaker 2 (19:26):
And I am a French fry connoisseur. All right, so
I'm here for that.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
Well you're on the right show, then, yes, yes, all right,
here's some ads and we're back after those ads that
were not about some I hope most of them are
about potatoes.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
I hope they're potatoes.

Speaker 3 (19:44):
Let me tell you something, man, I'm going to invoke
something right now that's probably not fair. The thing is, like, okay,
I am fully aware of the totality of the problematicness
of somewhere like a Chick fil a. However, crossed by
feed at some point was this person with two buckets

(20:05):
of French of like the Chris cut fries, and I
was like, that's an immediate retweet. I'm like, this is
and all I saw I just saw fries and my
eyes glazed over.

Speaker 2 (20:16):
I was just like, oh my god, the buckets. Let's go.
And then I was like, damn, man, I know, I
know it's I know, I know, I know. It's okay, guys, like,
hear me out though, I know it's.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Chick filet, but it's not the potato's fault, you know,
but it ain't the potato fault. Yeah, you understand what
I'm saying. I'm like, they pay whale, the places pay whale. Okay, okay, anyway, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
All right.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
So the next next chunk of the story is about
a man named Abraham Galloway okay, and he and the
Coastal the Coastal Black Militia North Carolina. And we've got
way more information about him, in part because he survives
the war, which is a nice anti spoiler, you know,
like he's not king died during the story, at least not.

(21:03):
They were like done with the story as the downside
is right. With bastards, you have this part where you're like,
all this bad stuff's happening, but then they die in
the end and you're happy that they die.

Speaker 4 (21:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
And then with cool people hit cool stuff, they die
in the end, it's not as good. That's history. So
Abraham Galloway he was born enslaved in a tiny fishing
town near Wilmington, North Carolina, and he was he was
owned by his own second cousin.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
Great.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, he moved to Wilmington. He becomes a brickmaker and
basically his fucking cousin tells him that he has to
go work and give him the money. And but Wilmington
is a hot bed of abolitionism, which is which I'm
not talking about. Like like when I got told about
abolitionism when I was in public school or whatever, I

(21:53):
got told it was like well meaning white people who
like wrote the government about how morality demanded the end of.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Slavery or whatever.

Speaker 1 (22:01):
Wilmington was a hotbed of abolition And by that I
mean it was full of black people free and enslaved,
who are teaching black people how to read and write,
who are smuggling fugitives north who are passing around tracks
that called for the moral necessity of violence to end slavery,
including this tracked by black abolitionist David Walker to the
colored citizens of the world, which and this is a

(22:22):
reoccurring theme, and all the abolition is propaganda I've ever seen,
specifically includes the need for the rights of women. Also,
and this is the pamphlet that basically Nat Turner's eighteen
thirty one rebellion gets blamed on. And so David Walker
might have written it in Boston, but he was born
in Wilmington, which is where our hero is currently. He's
twenty years old, it's eighteen fifty seven. He decides to

(22:43):
get the fuck out. He was nervous that he was
going to get sold further south, so his friend Richard Eden,
decides to come with. Richard was a barber who had
just gotten busted for daring to marry a free mixed
race woman. So he was facing the lash and he's like, yeah,
fuck this, I'm getting out, And it was hard to
get out. Anyone who was caught helping them would have

(23:04):
been killed or sold. One anti slavery ring that had
just been busted right before this or around that time,
the black pilot got sold further south, which was like
one of the main threats that people would face, and
the white Quaker, who was involved in the whole thing
also as a pilot, got murdered. Yeah so, but they
eventually they do find a pilot who will sneak them

(23:26):
onto the boat and off they go. They make it
to Philly. They join up with a Vigilance Society there,
which is a crew of abolitionists who fed and housed
and generally helped fugitives. The Fugitive Slave Law of eighteen
fifty means that even the Free States weren't free for fugitives, right,
Bounty hunters could just show up and yeah, yeah, And
so they keep going right because the North isn't even safe.

(23:48):
They make it up to Canada with train tickets that
the society buys them, and they once they're up there,
the abolitionists give them room and board and find them work.
Galloway gets a job laying brick eating gets to open
a barber shop. I just like including Eden. He kind
of disappears from the story here, but I'm glad he
gets to go fucking be a free barber. You know, yes, yes, yes,

(24:08):
but Abraham Galloway, he didn't want to lay bricks, not really.
He wanted to destroy slavery. So he goes back across.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
The throw bricks.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, exactly, Yeah, and I'm sure he got the chance. Yeah,
he goes back across the border, and he starts giving
speeches and then getting in fights with all the people
trying to kill him.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And then I knew. I knew his name before.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
I was like, I know Abraham Galloway, and now now
you're at the park that I know him.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, okay, anyway, go on.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:36):
So in Boston he hangs out with the Vigilant Society,
and then he hangs out with this this league I'd
never heard of before I did this research. You've ever
heard of? The Anti Man Hunting League?

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yes? These people fucking rule so dope. Yeah, yeah, tell
him about him. I'm leaning back. Let you tell the story.

Speaker 4 (24:53):
Yeah, not.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
These fools are hard.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
So it's a crew of people who are basically like,
all right, well, kidnappers keep coming here and kidnapping people,
all right, so we should just track down the kidnappers
and then kidnap them basically, And they show up and
basically their their dealers they'll find they'll find a fucking
bounty hunter and they'll be like, hey, you would be
so much happier and healthier if you just left Boston
right now. So that's what they did.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
It was so dope. It was so dup.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
I know, fools were just like, hey, listen, don't come
to Boston. Yeah, I'm telling you right now, don't come
to Boston. We body snatches, all right, yeah, don't come.
Oh you're gonna come, okay, cool?

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah, we told you. What would happen? I told you
not to come?

Speaker 3 (25:36):
Fan.

Speaker 4 (25:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
And so the reason that this league starts is another
interesting story. Eighteen fifty four, you have a guy named
Anthony Burns who also decided to fuck off from slavery,
and he gets smuggled up to Boston, and because of
the fugitive slave law, the marshals come after him and
he gets arrested and a crew of black and white
abolitionists storm the courthouse. They break down the door of

(25:59):
the battery ram and then shoot a federal marshal dead.
Let's go, and then they get they eventually get repelled. Apparently,
I think they have to call in the army or
some shit. Yeah, and so so Burns gets returned to slavery,
but for a moment, and as he's been like marched
out of town, fifty thousand people in Boston come out
to like really aggressively protest his capture. Yeah, and I

(26:22):
don't have in front of me the population of Boston
at the time, but the population of the United States
was not particularly large back then, so.

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
It's also I love this because it's like, you know,
a lot of times when you flatten history, you just think, like,
you know, these two armies and you have citizens just
kind of like sitting around waiting to see what happens,
you know, especially like this the American slave narrative that
was like, well, I guess we were just out in
the fields hoping everything worked out, you know what I'm saying,

(26:54):
totally nah fam like yeah nah fighting, Yeah, yeah, I
gave us a green light. We was like, all right,
it's own, We're gonna do our best. Yeah, you know, yeah, no,
that's fucking exactly it.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
And like, yeah, okay, so this change is Boston overnight.
And then that's how they pass all these laws making
it harder to come and capture people, but just in
case people try it anyway, you have the Anti man
Hunting League that starts after this and then burns himself.
The abolitionists raise up enough money to buy his freedom.
He goes to college, he becomes a minister, and then,

(27:28):
because it was the fucking nineteenth century, he dies of
tuberculosis like fucking everyone else, twenty eight when he dies
of tuberculosis.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Life before penicillin.

Speaker 3 (27:38):
Dog, These dudes be living triple lives in one life.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Yeah, and then and then you die at twenty eight
after all that.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Yeah, I'm thirty nine and I haven't touched a quarter
of what this person.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Do you understand what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (27:52):
I'm like that you did all that in about twenty nine, Okay.

Speaker 1 (27:56):
Yeah, So so Galloway, he's passing through Boston on his
way to Haiti because the abolitionists, right after John Brown
gets executed, they're not just like waiting around for the
US to get its act together to abolish slavery. They
head to Haiti and they organized they're organizing a raid
from Haiti on the American South, hoping to directly incite

(28:19):
a civil war to end slavery.

Speaker 6 (28:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:21):
So, so Galloway takes passage alongside some other abolitionists, including
this the Scottish immigrant named James Redpath, who helped secure
Haiti's diplomatic connections to the US, this guy Francis Mariam,
who was one of the only people to escape from
John Brown's Harper's Ferry raid, who later fled to Canada
with the help of Farah. Because everyone was actually doing

(28:42):
all kinds of weird share at the time. The abolitionists
they show up in Haiti, they're received by by Haiti's
president because all a Haiti fucking declares three days a
morning when John.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Brown is killed.

Speaker 1 (28:52):
And it's not just because they I mean, they fucking
hate slavery, right, this is the history of Haiti. But
it's not just that because they're also looking out for
their own country. Because in the eighteen fifties, the US
drew up plans to conquer Haiti and turn it into
a slave state, and then some adventure asshole tried to
conquer Cuba to turn it into a slave state around
that time. Yeah, another one fucking actually conquered Nicaragua for

(29:14):
a moment until the people down there murdered him and
didn't let him turn it into a slave state.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Perfect.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah, And I was the on was going to say, Man,
I don't know, like what made them think. I don't
know why you would want it with Haiti if you
didn't really if you know anything about the history, it's like, nah, fam,
don't don't come try to down here. Yeah you know,
we don't. Won't play down here. Don't don't bring it
down here, fam.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
And so Galloway stays in Haiti for a while planning
this raid, but then the South seceeds, and so he
hurries the fuck back to States to fight, because that
was their whole point was to try and get a
civil war. And you know, but it didn't take invading
the South. All you had to do to start a
civil war apparently was to get a moderate Republican named
Lincoln in offense, right, he was a.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
Moderate and like yo, like.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
The Apple TV just did like for Black History, did
a dope little three part series on him.

Speaker 2 (30:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah, it's called the Lincoln Dilemma, which was really more
about Frederick Douglass and how like really that Frederick Douglas
kind of radicalized him.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
That was like that, like the and just sort of
the evolution of.

Speaker 3 (30:27):
This, like you said, rather Khaki, you know, moderate Republican
turning into this like oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
No, we gotta we can't, this can't last, you know
what I'm saying. And it was really Frederick Douglas.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
So that's but yeah, yeah, what took them to finally
leave was there just slightly a little less tiny less racist?

Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah yeah, yeah, which has no I mean living in
the US now, it's impossible to imagine the right wing
getting set by a moderate.

Speaker 2 (31:00):
Yeah, yeah, right, by like just the just vitamin D
milk version.

Speaker 3 (31:08):
It's just the most plane yeah, saltine cracker.

Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, no, seasoned.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Fried chicken, undercooked, like just just potato salad with raisin.
I'm sorry, but yeah, yeah, the most basic, Yeah, moderates
and they can't handle it.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So they have a whole they can't handle it. Yeah, yes,
which good. It got them fucking crushed. I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
But yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:38):
So so Galloway he shows back up in the US
and he's like all right, he gets himself recruited into
the spy service for the US Army and he's not
really a union guy, but it's like the best thing going. Yeah,
And he's reporting directly to General Benjamin Butler, who kind
of starts the war an asshole. He's like, not, he's
even more let's say moderate than he wasn't even particularly

(32:01):
anti slavery at the start of the war. But he's
actually he's the first Union general who starts hiring black refugees.
And it's the biographer I read, David Sisselski, suggests that
it's possible he got this idea from Galloway, and if so,
Galloway just changed the fucking face of history. Yeah, and
that one moment amazing because all that general strike shit

(32:22):
I'm talking about, starts with that. And so then Galloway
goes on and does spy ship for two and a
half years, and he's incredibly valuable, as are all of
the black spies in the US Service, because they know
the terrain. Uh. And also because white people just ignore
black people and pretend it is because people are fucking racist,

(32:42):
and so sure.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Surely they can't figure out how to do things. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, And so he actually goes and he scouts the
landing for the Union Army and the shores of North Carolina,
which again changes the fucking face of history because the
landing in North Carolin is how is part of how
the US runs. It's blockade on Southern shipping and helps
crush their economy. That's all fucking Galloway. And then I mean,

(33:10):
it's also a ton of other people, right, I'm not
trying to be like it's just Galloway. Like, you know,
he found black pilots to help navigate the ships to
shore and shit like that, So the black pilots who
are not named in.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
This also get all the fucking credit. Yeah, And then he.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
Gets set down in Mississippi, and then he sees the
Union treat black refugees like shit, and they start turning
away black refugees. They start working other ones to death
building a canal so that they can siege a fortress
that was a bad idea in the first fucking place,
of course, and the Union fails at seizing the fortress,

(33:45):
and then they just fuck off and they ditch all
of the people, all the black people who are there
helping them, including Galloway. They just fucking ditch him, and
he gets captured by the Confederacy. His story goes dark
for a minute, and we don't know he actually he
never literate, and so we don't have as much of
his own words written down, but we know that he escapes,

(34:06):
and he makes his way overland over the course of
months through the entire fucking Confederacy back to North Carolina
to the city of New Bern, where the Union is
now in control thanks to his own scouting to town
besieged the rebel lines are only miles away, but has
access to shipping, so it's not really fully besieged. More
than ten thousand black people seeking their freedom now live there.

(34:28):
And these are like the hardest and most militant refugees
the war fucking sees, because these are the first people
who are like, I'm getting the fuck out. They didn't
get out.

Speaker 2 (34:36):
When it was.

Speaker 1 (34:38):
I'm not try, you know, but they got out when
the going was hard, you know.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
And all these people, not all these people. A lot
of these people start working with Scouts and spies formally
or informally, and they head back into Confederate territory in
a regular basis. Some of them do it for the Union,
some of them just do it for their own fucking
families and their friends and fucking everyone.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
You know.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, but Galloway doesn't rejoin the Union. He's like, fuck
the Union, what the fuck? Trust y'all either, yeah, and
so instead he just becomes an organizer. He's twenty six,
he's sarcastic, he's charming, he open carries a pistol for
the rest of his life.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Let's go.

Speaker 1 (35:14):
And so in eighteen sixty three, the Union's like, but
we need Galloway, We need Galloway to get us an army.
Because at this point they finally decided the fifty fourth
Regiment Massachusetts is the was the first all black regiment
of the war. And this is the one that that
movie Glory is about. Yeah, and it I'm really actually

(35:35):
the main there's lots of things to be mad about
that movie. One of the main things I'm mad about
is two of Frederick Douglas's sons were in the fucking
fifty fourth. I didn't know that they should have been
the fucking main characters of that movie.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
But I you just blew my mind. I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, Frederick Douglas wasn't afraid to fucking I mean, well,
his kids weren't afraid to put some skin in the.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Gay weren't afraid to shoot.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yeah. Yeah, And so fifty fourth is all black except
the not except no commissioned officers are black.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
It works, right, the fifty fourth is a like positive
test or whatever. And so they're like, oh, and also,
we're losing this war and we fucking need more people. Yes,
And so they send down this guy is this white
recruiter named Edward Kinsley. They send him down in eighteen
sixty three down to New Burn to find Galloway, who's
like hidden there, and try and convince him to come over.

(36:28):
And Galloway won't meet with this guy until he and
his friends watch him for a week to see how
he treats black people. And he basically wins Galloway over
just by like the bare fucking minimum of not being
a dick.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
Like listen, listen, I hope that's a lesson to all
white people everywhere.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
That's just like, listen, dog like, it ain't that hard.

Speaker 3 (36:50):
Just we gonna watch you, like I was gonna say,
like even him just being like I ain't gonna meet
with you, but I'm ahad of home.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
He's watched you, you know, So which is what we do, right,
we all do it.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
It's like, well let me, you know, let me let
me shoot up do our little googles, you know, run
your name up the flag pole, find that what's going on,
and then once we see what's up, it's like it's
just it's like the bar is so low, like just hey, man,
like just just don't just don't be awful.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Yeah, it's pretty it's not hard. It's not hard to
not be awful. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
All he did is he he he tipped his hat
some black workers and got yelled at by the by
the union soldiers and yeah, and if you do that, you.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
Tip your hat to to to to the black people
and then the white dudes yell at you like hey,
what the fuck you're doing.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
You just look at me like, man, fuck you dog,
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 3 (37:39):
The man just man, shut the fuck up, and you
just keep going where you're like you then I'm gonna
be like I like that guy.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah all right, yeah, like it's that easy. Yeah, the
bar is on the floor, so he wants you to
step over the bar.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, something like you have to dig a hole into
the ground to go under this floor.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Totally.

Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yes, Yeah, there's plenty of people at this point, plenty
white people are willing.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
To at it.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
Yeah, yes, but so so they end up meeting with
Galloway and this like perfect like Cloak and Daggers thing,
you know, where he meets with the innkeeper and she
takes him upstairs and then the room is just entirely
full of people and galoways there and they tell him
point blank why we don't trust the union. They're not
paying black soldiers the same wage as white soldiers. Black

(38:24):
people are not being granted citizenship by the Emancipation Proclamation.
Black people had already been fighting alongside of and dying
alongside of Union troops with absolutely no recognition. And sometimes
these were in like scouting missions, and sometimes they were
like literally like you know, a place is being attacked
and you know, the black people are there also fucking
fight and no recognition from the Union army. And then

(38:46):
also a bunch of specifically racist shit is happening in newbern.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
So they're like, yeah, all this shit's happening.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
And they didn't say like, no, we're not going to
fight for the Union. They're saying, we're not going to
do it unless you meet our demands. Yeah, And so
they say, we want to be outfitted the same and
paid the same, we want housing for our families, we
want education for our kids, and we want the Union
to compel the Confederacy to treat captured black soldiers as
prisoners of war instead of selling or executing them. And

(39:15):
and this part's a little like, so Kinsley says yes, right,
so that of course he does. Yeah exactly. So then
they hold guns to his head and make him say
it again.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Let me tell you how much I love my people? Yeah,
let me tell you how much? Because that is the answer.

Speaker 3 (39:31):
When that man say yes, like, I don't think I
need to make sure say it again.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
No, wait, wait, no, no, no, I'll say it again now
you Now you promising on your mama, this, on your mama,
on your hood, on your children.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
You gonna do this, yeah, Joe said, man, I love
my people.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Yeah no, And so he says yes again. And the
thing I read is like Kinsley knows he can't actually
do these things. Galloways can't do these things. What they're
saying is you're gonna fucking try, And he yes, yes,
and he does try.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
He doesn't.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
Some of the things get met eventually, some of them whatever.
But Kinsley and Galloway they end up staying friends and
stay in touch the rest of their lives. And over
five thousand black men volunteer for the Union Army in
New Bern alone, they form what was generally known as
the African Brigade. In the end, one hundred and eighty
six thousand black men fought for the Union. The vast
majority of them were formally enslaved people, and they were

(40:22):
as you point out, they're paid less than white soldiers
until eighteen sixty four, and part of that gets applied retroactively,
and there's a million fucking loopholes for the equal pay
that they eventually get. They're still prevented from being commissioned
officers and combat roles. You get some commissioned officers in
like medical roles, and then the Confederacy just keeps executing
captured black people and any white officer fighting alongside of them,

(40:46):
and the Union could have done something about it and
fucking didn't. Except actually, and I didn't write this in
the script, so I'll get all the details wrong. Except actually,
the white guy who was the commissioned officer for this
African Brigade, he was known as like the hanging like
I don't know, the hangman or whatever the fuck, because
whenever black soldiers were captured and killed, he would kill
Confederate prisoners.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I love it because he was like, no I don't
do it. Yeah, no, right, yeah, it's like you shouldn't
kill prisoners a war. But like was, yeah, but you
take one, we take five. Yeah, it's what you're doing. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
And then but union army is still proving to be
racist as fuck. And one guy, William Walker, he goes
on strike until he gets an equal wage. He was
court martialed and shot. Another guy, William Johnson, he was
caught deserting. He was executed in this like highly publicized
case that where they brought out a photographer to make
a big spectacle of killing this black man. Two of

(41:41):
the soldiers was to shoot him withere these German immigrants,
and they refused to shoot, so they were arrested.

Speaker 2 (41:47):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
But even with all that going on. So Galloway is
like two jobs now. One is that he is recruiting
black men to fight, and he's also fighting against all
the racism within the military. He even gets his old
general Butler the Moderate, to press his higher ups for
equal equal pay. But he's no longer a union spy.
But his network's ran deep. And I should probably talk
about potatoes right now. It feels like a good time

(42:11):
to talk about potatoes and French fries, which I really love.
I'm really excited about my air fryer, which makes really
good French fries.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
They really do.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
Man, you could even go with like frozen like a
bag of frozen ones for that air.

Speaker 4 (42:23):
Right device to reheat French fries.

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Yeah, because you can't reheat fries. It's really hard to
do that. But if you could do, we could do
it in an air fry with a little bit of
olive oil on the mug.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Little lowries. You good.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
Yeah, And so that's we're sponsored by the idea of
French fries and these other ads.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
And we're back. Yeah, we are.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I I sometimes try to put myself in the shoes
of like a just moderately reasonable white dude at this
time who like like like you're saying, is like trying
to tell his higher ups, like yo, we should pay
these dudes the same as everybody else, and just being
like and just kind of looking at them like but

(43:06):
they they holding the same, They the bullet don't care
like they dying just like we ding Like I don't
understand why you think they what this don't make no
sense to me, Like they life in just as much dangerous,
are not more danger because they running a higher matter
of fact, we should be paying them more. Yeah, because
they running a higher risk than we are. Like, don't

(43:28):
that don't make sense to you? And they got more
mistake they you think the bullet care what color they are?

Speaker 2 (43:34):
Like, what you know? So just I just wonder.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
I just sometimes I just think, like, man, how maddening
that must have been, even if you just like slightly
just logical, You're like, what, we're doing the same job though,
aren't we Like are we doing the same job?

Speaker 2 (43:47):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (43:48):
I think a lot of even white people got radicalassed
by all this, Like in all my reading is a
lot of people start off being like, oh, I don't know,
and then they're like, oh, this shit's evil, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
So Galloway right no longer a Union spy, but his
networks run really deep all over the South. He managed
to smuggle his own mother out of Wilmington, which is
seventy five miles beyond Confederate lines in one of the
most heavily fortified cities in the entire Confederacy. He gets
his mom out, he arranges for her to set up
to be Boston, where she stays with one of his

(44:19):
friends from the Anti Man Hunting League.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
Yes, I want to think that I would have the
balls to do that, have to get my mom out.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying, Like seventy five mile dang, Yeah,
that's a long walk.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
Yes, yeah, And so okay, So it's hard to overstate
the importance of the black soldiers and black insurgents fighting
like and the striking black workers on the war efforts.
So I'll just say that they fucking won the war. Militarily,
they win it by fighting hard and well and by
spying and scouting. But economically they want it to And
I've already said that like three times, but I just

(44:52):
want to make sure everyone leaves with that impression. And
then North Carolinian journalist David Forbes puts it like this.
In April eighteen sixty four, Lincoln met with a delegation
of Galloway and several other prominent insurgent figures from the
North Carolina ports. The President greeted them with an unusual,
almost obsequious hospitality. The few observers at the meeting noted

(45:14):
that the delegates weren't deferential, They were direct that they
wanted the greatest of privileges, their political rights and autonomy
and pointedly emphasized the dire straits the war effort would
be in without their support. The incident comes off not
as a commander in chief giving orders, but is essentially
autonomous militias fully aware of their leverage, and a government
eager to keep them actively on their side.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
That stuff they don't tell you.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
Yeah, exactly, Like everything I'd always read is like, oh
and then the you know, the grateful black people were
so excited that the white Irish and Northerners saved them
or whatever.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, from the.

Speaker 1 (45:50):
Horrible racists of the South, And like, no, first of all,
the white people are racist everywhere, and some of them
are on racists everywhere. But yeah, fucking anyway, yeah, I
love that. So so Galloway end of the war. He
he moves to Wilmington, the Confederacy takes off their gray
uniforms and put on white hoods. As we all know.

Speaker 2 (46:09):
We all know.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
In eighteen sixty seven, the KKK demanded that all black
organizing cease in Wilmington. So Galloway and the black militia
were like, well, you could, you could fucking.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Make us if you want. Yeah, how about that.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
There's like four days of street battles with the Klan,
and then the Klan fucks off out of Wilmington for
the next thirty years.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Love it.

Speaker 1 (46:28):
He winds up a senator. He refuses to show deference
to white people. He fought for the rights of women,
including full subrage. He walked around carrying a pistol. He
fought for labor rights. He started working to build coalitions
with poor whites along class lines. And then because of
the fucking nineteenth century, you know what he did, he
died at thirty three.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Thirty.

Speaker 4 (46:48):
Oh my goodness, this man like thirty This man was
so successful.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
No, listen, we are all like listen, see we're all losers, y'ah, like.

Speaker 2 (47:03):
Uk thirty three dug okay? Yeah then yeah, yeah, he
dies at thirty three because it's nice thing.

Speaker 4 (47:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
And then he either dies of like a fever or
he gets poisoned. It depends on what what history book
you out you read, But yeah, that's that's goll Away.
And there's a few more parts of this whole Civil
War within the Civil War, the Civil Civil War, War,
and Civil Civil War. One part is that the the
white South was far from united in the support of

(47:31):
the Confederacy. A lot of people didn't want to fight
and die for slavery, a few of them because they
thought slavery was bad, more because they were just like
too poor to get to own people themselves. Yeah, but
in eighteen sixty, no, go ahead, I.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
Was gonna say, I think that that's important part of
the story to this, Like you're like, why intersectionality and
critical race theory, like why you need to notice stuff?
Is that type of intersection to where it's like, hey, dude, like, yeah,
maybe I'm not a slave, but I can see that
that's bullshit and I can't afford to have one anyway,
and I can't stand your owner.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
Either, like totally.

Speaker 3 (48:09):
You know what I'm saying, Like, Nah, he's a dickhead,
you're right, Yeah, nah, fuck that guy.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
But I'm just as poor as you are. Yeah you
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (48:16):
Well, not just as poor, but like in their perception
they're just like, I mean, I'm poor too, Like noah, fuck,
this guy's gonna fight for that, you know what I'm saying.
So it's more like it's not so much they're like
you know, like obviously like socially conscious and aware for
their time, but just more the reality of like this,
this is what a lack of resources does makes you

(48:37):
be like man fighting your principal cause like you're talking
about nah man fuck that guy.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
You know. Yeah, you just summarize the next chunk of
my script. I just let's go. But yeah, like, okay,
So in eighteen sixty, most way Southerners they don't live
in the plantation belt. They live upland they live in
mountains and hills. And then most of them they don't
grow cash cash crops though even the ones who own

(49:05):
land they didn't so they didn't grow cotton. They were
just subsistence farmers. Some of them were heard Muslim subsistence
farmers called the and they get called the yeomen, which
is a word I never knew how to pronounce. I
only know how to spell because it's also a word
in like ye oldie medieval stories. But yeah, So that
when the Confederacy formed and seceded, a lot of delegates

(49:25):
from the mountains voted to remain within the union or
only voted for secession after they were threatened. That's another
thing that doesn't get talked about. Even some of the
people voted for secession were like or you're gonna kill me,
So I all right, you.

Speaker 2 (49:36):
Know, yeah, yeah, I guess, uh huh.

Speaker 1 (49:38):
And then the reason West Virginia, where I live, the
reason it exists is because it didn't want to secede
from the Union, so it seceded from Virginia.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
The whole of East Tennessee voted to remain in the
Union two to one, and they they weren't playing around.
Pro Union military companies formed in every county. One guy
went up to d C to be like, hey, if
we blow up all the bridges from the rest of Tennessee,
where you send down troops to protect us.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
And the general is like, yeah, sure, guy, we can
do that. So they went and they torched for bridges,
but they weren't able to capture the rest so they
were too heavily guarded by the Confederates. Uh So, instead
of a Union army marching in, a Confederate army marched
in and occupied East Tennessee.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
They declare martial law.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
They start seizing property, A bunch of the ring leaders
are executed, hundreds are arrested, and then thousands of men
of military age flee through the mountains through the Confederacy
to go join the Union Army.

Speaker 2 (50:30):
When the when the Union.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Recaptures East Tennessee, it was it was led by a
Union regiment of Tennessee infantry. They had enough fucking people
fuck off that they were able to form an entire
fucking regiment.

Speaker 3 (50:42):
That was like, no, we know, we know these we
know these blue mountains. Now we know these smoking mountains.
Because let me tell you where to go. You know
what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, Winston County, Alabama, in the northern part of the state,
they voted to secede from the Confederacy. So they decided, look,
if the Confederates are allowed to secede from the Union,
were allowed to secede from the Confederacy. They they four
militia bands that stopped Confederate conscription and they protected local
families from being robbed by the army. The Peace and
Constitutional Society of Arkansas again in the mountains, this time

(51:11):
in the Ozarks and so Yeapalaccha. They resist conscription. One
hundred of them are arrested, eight thousand of them fled
and served in the Union Army. In the total, over
the course of the war, one hundred thousand Confederate troops deserted,
most of them facing execution if they got caught. Yeah,
almost all of them are folks who didn't own slaves,
and they knew that there. They ran off because they

(51:31):
were like, my family will fucking starve. I'm a subsistence farmer. Like,
if I'm not there to put crops in the ground,
my family will die. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Fuck this war. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
In the hills of Choctaw County, Mississippi, a loyal league
of deserters spied for the Union, helped people desert robbed
the families of those who were loyal to the Confederacy.
Northern Alabama started off loyal to the Confederacy, but by
eighteen sixty three was full of people resisting and Floyd
County was go ahead.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
I was gonna say, man, at some point, it's like,
I don't care what your politics are, man, you're not
gonna feed your children and know me, grinder, Yeah, you
know what I mean. Like, at some point you like
this is yeah, like you said, it's some bullshit, man.
Like even if you started off being like yeah, you know,
and then you're like, you know what this look, man, I'm.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Go home grow some potatoes. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
Basically, all through the South, people just fought against the Confederacy.
They would ambush, they would rob, they would sabotage, they
would assassinate, and then they were met with massacres. In Arson,
there's a whole fucking civil war within the Civil War
in North Carolina. The coast had black and indigenous gorillas.
They had maroons hanging out in the swamps who would
attack the center, had these like direct action abolitionists. The

(52:41):
west in the mountains had diehard Unionists. Madison County, which
is where I lived for four or five years before now,
was called Bloody Madison. The Confederates there came from the cities,
but they were outnumbered by the anti Confederates who came
from the hills and the unions there. Basically, they're tired
of being robbed constantly by the Confederates, so they robbed
all their own shit back. And then the Confederates came

(53:03):
and they rounded up thirteen people and shot them in
the mountains, including a thirteen.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
Year old boy.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
Some of the soldiers hesitated to shoot, and the commander said,
anyone who doesn't shoot is going to get shot to
the most famous of these yeomen results revolts.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Sorry.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
In the Civil war was the Free State of Jones, Mississippi.
It is another Hollywood movie you ever seen, Free stated Jones.
It's another Hollywood movie that gets fucking white savory about
this shitah. But basically, there's this Confederate soldier named Newton Knight.
He heard that his brother in law was abusing his kids,
so he deserts. He walks two hundred miles home, and

(53:39):
he kills the aforementioned brother in law. Then he takes
to the swamps where he's hanging out with the maroon community,
the runaway enslave folks, or the people no longer enslaved,
the people fleeing enslavement. So he's hanging out there and
then other Confederate deserters. They form a multiracial gorilla gang.
They raid Confederate storehouses, they distribute the food back to
the farmers. They fought fourteen skirmishes with the Confederate Army.

(54:02):
Newton Knights said their numbers never exceed one hundred and
twenty five fighters, but a general from the Union Army
claims it was six hundred. They declared their county free
from Confederates. They raised the US flagger of the courthouse,
and they declared a free state of equal rights and
so dope. After the war, Newton Knight writes to the
US government and he asks for compensation for the families
of the men who died in battle. The US is like, no,

(54:24):
we don't know you all.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
We do and you don't know you nothing.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, because my argument is that the Union isn't really
the good guys in the story.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
They're just the better than the Confederates guys, the other guys.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Dude, there's a this this is a dope moment, like
culturally for a number of reasons. But I think one
of the doper like modern tie ins is especially around
like the Appalachia stuff because just like the origins of
like folk music, like the banjo is West African, Like

(54:59):
that's a West After instrument. So when you have this
like interaction of freed or like you know, self emancipating slaves, right,
former slaves hit these Appalachian with these like Gaelic and Irish,
So you have these type of sing songy stuff that's
Gaelic and Irish that were hiding in the Appalachians, plus

(55:21):
this like African banjos, and it made what we know
as folk music. You know what I'm said, yeah, is
these people existing in these mountains who was poor trying
to figure out what they did and they was playing
music outside And I'm like that to me is like
a sign of like you said, what you talking about
to where it's like these these people up in the
mouths like, man, fuck your war, Like I had nothing

(55:42):
to do with that. Nah, y'all come stay with us,
you know what I'm saying, Or the other way around,
Like black people just found this mountain and was like,
oh damn, people live up here, you know.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
It was like what y'all doing?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
You know?

Speaker 2 (55:54):
Yeah we free.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
Now I ain't scared of y'all, you know, but uh yeah,
So I just think they have these I wish more
people would tell these stories, if anything, just not for
those no, like you know, make make us feel better
about like well not all white people, right, not for
that thing, but to just understand that, you know, history

(56:16):
is way more complicated than we was taught.

Speaker 2 (56:19):
Yeah, no, exactly.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
Like even as I was trying to write this, I'm
trying to be like, I'm not trying to fucking center
the white anti racist in this, right, but I want
people to know that, like, for whatever the reasons, the
South was not a fucking unified place, you know, and
then to close off this whole thing about it. Even
some of the fucking plantation owners.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Fuck them. I'm not defending them.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
They get in on the effect of hating the Confederacy,
but they do it purely out of self interest because
they're a bunch of fucking capitalists, right and so yes,
of course when well, they'll do whatever is the most profitable.
When New Orleans gets occupied in eighteen sixty two and
then throughout Mississippi in eighteen sixty three, some rich focks
are like, you know what, fuck it, Well, so we
got cotton and sugar will sell it to the Union
Army instead, which is like, it's basically what you get

(57:02):
when you try to run a war based on the
idea of creating like the collective self interest of capitalists.
They don't have collective self interest, Like, no.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
There is no Yeah, it's the self interest is the money. Yeah,
so I love it.

Speaker 3 (57:16):
They was like, y'all fighting for us to be able
to keep slaves, but y'all don't buy enough, so, uh.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
What's up with y'all?

Speaker 7 (57:24):
Y'all, y'all, y'all, y'all was some sugar, yo, say, and
then y'all smoke y'all, smoke y'all, smoke yo, we got
this tobacco.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
And that is the story of the Civil Civil War war.
I feel about the Civil Civil War war, man, I am.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
I hope that this pod gets so much like air
and oxygen in it because of the amount of stories
that aren't told out of this, not only just to
like the culture as a whole, but black people period.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I think a lot of times, like.

Speaker 3 (58:08):
You know, we know that we know the uh, we
know the highlight reels, you know what I mean, the
Harriet Tubmans, then that Turner.

Speaker 2 (58:15):
It's the soul Jenner truths, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
You know, the Frederick Douglas is the ones that were
literate and you know, wrote biographies and autobiographies and such.
But like these like you know, regular dudes that were
like nah, fam, you think you think your ancestors, you
know what I'm saying, You really think your ancestors just
took it like they didn't just take it like you

(58:38):
know what I'm saying, Like nah, like fuck tooth and
nail the whole time, you know, So I think they're
like even just hearing that you're right this. I have
the opposite feeling of the best thing, where I feel
like invigorated and inspired, like yeah food.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
Yeah, you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I succeeded.

Speaker 3 (58:57):
You did, Margaret. I appreciate you calling me for this one.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Thanks for coming on. And on Wednesday, we're gonna talk
about the Lowry Gang, which is tying into all of this,
and you all will not be disappointed by this.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Let's go prop.

Speaker 4 (59:11):
You got any pluggables for us at the end here?

Speaker 3 (59:13):
Yeah? Uh, prop hip hop dot Com.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
You know what I'm gonna do.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
Haven't plugged this on any other podject, But if y'all
are in the LA area, I do this thing called
Club Real Ones.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
It's every first Sunday in Long Beach.

Speaker 3 (59:29):
It's and it's it's just the day party for y'all
grown folks that gotta work the next day. We're done
by eight, you know what I'm saying. And there's there's
at there. I mean, there's an after part. If you
want to, you can go get cocktails next door. We
have that too if you don't got to work tomorrow.
But if you do, yo three to three to eight,
just come chill with us. It's the greatest DJs in Cali.
You know what I'm saying. Uh yeah, Club real Ones

(59:51):
dot It's on my website prop hip hop dot com.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
And then all the professional stuff like, oh, I wrote a.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Book, you know, I got my podcast or politics, yeah, Terrify.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, which I just got an award yesterday for which
is a shito. Yeah. Anyway, so yeah, those are my plugs, Margaret.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
Anything you want to plug at the end here.

Speaker 1 (01:00:11):
Uh well, at the moment, I seem to like plug
in my new podcast, Cool People Did Cool Stuff. You
can also follow me on Twitter at Magpie Killjoy and
a bunch of books out. I guess the most recent
one that's out is called A Country of Ghosts. It's
an anarchist utopian novel.

Speaker 4 (01:00:27):
Okay, so we'll be back. We'll be back on Wednesday.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
We're back in the feeds. We're back in the feeds.
The wrapping is mean.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
By my.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Hello, and welcome back to Cool People Did Cool Stuff?
The podcast my podcast in which I declared myself the
arbiter of what counts as cool for both people and stuff.
And then I tell you what I decided.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
I've got so true, so true, I was like, wait,
that's I I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
I sure did. Thanks.

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
I like when you laugh at my scripted jokes. Okay,
so I've got too such a great blong with me today.
I've got I've got prop who's an activist, a poet,
an MC and the host of the podcast Hood Politics,
which I'm just assuming you all have listened to, because
obviously you should listen to it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
How are you doing, that's a fair assumption. I'm cool.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
I'm hot as hell over here. So I got my
little glass of water, you know what I'm saying, so
I don't catch the vapors. That's my southernsumption. Oh yeah,
that's my Southern bell.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Well I do declare.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
Well, then you're gonna get robbed in this episode. Yes,
as a Southern bell. Okay, no, no, I'm with it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Let them they sitting there, what they eliminate? Talk about?

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
They lemonade while Big Daddy just beats my ancestors like, nah,
rob dad lady.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:03):
And I've got Sophie on here as well. She's our producer.
She's the reason that podcasts exist, all podcasts. She invented podcasts.

Speaker 4 (01:02:10):
Yeah, invented podcasting and no podcast exists without my.

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
Approval, yep, exactly. And sports invented the concept of sports.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
Invented the concept of sports. And for the record, the
Joe Rogan Podcast is a YouTube show.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
This is the second part in our two part series
about the Joe Rogan experience. No, about the Civil War.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Within about the Civil Civil War war.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Yeah, the Civil Civil War war. So you probably go
back to listen to part one, or you could just
listen to this part. Who am I to tell you
what to do to your life?

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
You're the person that gets to You're the arbiter of
what is cool? Oh I should tell people?

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Well you should tell Okay, go back and listen to
part one and we'll wait here.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Okay, you're back. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
So the last time, we talked about a whole bunch
of different, various ways that people across the South work
to fuck up the Confederacy because the Confederacy needed getting
fucked up. But today we're going to deep dive into
one of my favorite groups of all time. Who fucked
up with the Confederacy. They fucked up the Confederacy, they
fucked up the Klan, they fucked up the rich plantation owners,
all Robinhood style. They even fucked up the hypocrite reconstructious

(01:03:14):
Republicans eventually, and they were indigenous led multi racial insurrection
or bandit crew, depending on what you want to call it.
From North Carolina. Dozens of racist sheriffs and far right
militia members get murdered in this story. There's at least
five prison breaks. And that's right. I'm talking about the
one and the only lowry gang. I wrote air horns

(01:03:35):
please so if.

Speaker 2 (01:03:38):
I think it's very.

Speaker 3 (01:03:39):
Important to remember too that like the Confederate Nation lasted
four years, like y'all, Like Nirvana had a longer run,
Like yeah, there's y'all, like y'all, Audi hoop over something
that was four years long, like Lebron got a longer
career than the Confederate Nation.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
You know what I'm saying. I'm just like y'all anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
No, no, yeah, Like, which is actually why when you
talk about principled people, you're talking about shit that they
were doing before and after the Civil War, because like, yeah,
because fuck, you have Confederates is great, but there was
people worth fucking up before the Confederacy and absolute literacy.

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
Absolutely, it's like yeah, and then y'allo and then y'all
like fifty years later, fifty one hundred years later, decided
to like raise some monuments, Yeah for your four year
long career anyway, where.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
You just terrorized everyone who lived there? Were you just terrorized?

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Yeah, in your own hood, like you've just heard, your
own hood didn't mess with you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:43):
These people really ain't fooling with y'all like this.

Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
So, so before I can tell you about the Lottery Gang,
I want to I want to go way the fuck
back and tell you some shit from hundreds of years back.
And I'm going to tell you about going to Croatan, Okay,
the lost colony of Roanoke.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
What you know where this is going.

Speaker 3 (01:05:04):
Discovery Channel styles, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I love this.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
This story is incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
There's an island off the coast in North Carolina called
Roanoak Island. In fifteen eighty five, the English tried to
put their first permanent settlement in the New World there,
like this is before the fucking Mayflower. Jamestown, Virginia wasn't
until sixteen oh seven. But this settlement effort was led
by some piece of shit household named Ralph Lane, who
had spent the last two years as a colonial sheriff
in Ireland before he had, Before that, he'd been the

(01:05:33):
kind of asshole. His job it is to catch smugglers.
I really don't like this guy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
No, he's the worse.

Speaker 1 (01:05:38):
He lands on the island and he tries to set
up shop. One of the first fucking things he builds
is a fucking jail, yes, and then he gets mad
at one. It turns out people lived there already. He
gets mad at one of the indigenous leaders and he
kills him, and for some odd reason it's hard for
me to totally understand, the local folks didn't like this,
and they didn't ye, they didn't actually he the white

(01:06:00):
people out after they killed their leader, and so the
colony fails and Ralph Lane fucks off back to England
and he leaves behind a couple guys so that they can, like,
so England can be like it's ours or whatever. You know,
clearly there's plenty of a couple guys there already, but whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:16):
Fortunately, like ten years later, just to close the Ralph
Lane saga, he goes back to colonizing Ireland, and then
the Irish fucking rise up and gravely wound him, and
he lives in terrible pain for the few remaining years
of his life. Anyway, back to Roanoke fifteen eighty seven,
you've got another guy, John White.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
He's honestly not that much better.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
He goes on his way to set up a colony
in Virginia on the Chesapeake, and he swings by to
drop off supplies for these guys that Ralph Lane ditched
there except John White. He has a Spanish guy on
board named Simon Fernandez, Simon Fernandez probably, and he's a
fucking pirate. He's just he's been arrested for piracy. He
was going to be fucking killed as a pirate. And

(01:06:58):
then the British Crown was like, actually we kind of
want him on.

Speaker 2 (01:07:02):
Our ses, that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, And so they land on this island
and then Simon is like, actually, we're not going any further,
y'all are going to stay here. This is where we're
setting up the colony. And he like forces them to
set up the colony on Roanoke and no one knows
why he did this, and so they unload one hundred
and seventeen colonists and then this one indigenous guy named

(01:07:25):
Mantio who was just catching a ride back to North
America from England, and no one knows why Simon did this.
He said he did it because they were running out
of time to get crops in the ground. Like he's
just in a fucking hurry, he wants to get home
or something. Other people are like, oh, some spy shit,
some geopolitical whatever. Others say that he wanted to stay

(01:07:45):
close to the West Indies, so he get back to
Piracy as soon as possible. I kind of think for
no reason. I'm like, I think he just talked to Mantio,
and Mantio is like, no, this just set up near
my friends.

Speaker 3 (01:07:57):
I honestly think it was like yeah, like the Path
of Lea's Resistance, just like yeah, yeah, how's you doing
over here?

Speaker 1 (01:08:04):
Yeah, totally. And so this guy Mantio, they kept calling
him a chief, but he wasn't a fucking chief. His
mom was in charge. But I don't think he worked
really hard to convince them that he wasn't a chief.
I think he was like, all right with going to
England and you call the chief or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:19):
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
So Simon and Ralph they are not Ralph the fucking
John White. They don't stick around. They leave one hundred
and seventeen people, one hundred and eighteen people, and then
they just fuck off back to England to get more supplies,
and they're like, h good luck, see you soon, but
they they don't come back soon. They get sucked into
the Anglo Spanish War, which is like a back and
forth piracy thing. They come back three years later, and

(01:08:41):
then fifteen eighty when they show up, the settlement is
fucking gone.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
It's gone. Yes, yeah, anything.

Speaker 4 (01:08:47):
On a boat happen quickly, Like.

Speaker 1 (01:08:50):
No, probably not back then, yeah no, but yeah, yeah,
I like that anyway, No, keep telling the story.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
So they show up and there's a palisade around the settlement, right,
and it's completely abandoned, and the word Croatan is carved
into the palisade, and then the word crow is carved
into a tree, and people act like this is like
the greatest mystery of all time. Croatan is the name
of like the next island over where Mantana's from, Like

(01:09:19):
so easy, yeah, And then instead of going to go
see if that's where their colonists are the next island over,
they're like, well, this is like a storm coming, so
I guess I'm going to go back to England. It
just fucking goes back to England instead of looking so
and like as if their message is super fucking cryptic
and no one actually knows for sure what happened to

(01:09:40):
the colony but the most likely answer, and people like
didn't want to accept that people just fucked off and
joined indigenous groups around there, because people like couldn't fathom that,
like white people would do that. But there's like more
and more evidence that basically every single time white people
join indigenous tribes, they never want to go back to
be in European and they like the opposite is rarely true,

(01:10:05):
but so anyway, people are like, what a fucking cryptic
note they wrote down the name of the fucking island
they went to, which brings us to the Lumbye. The
Lumbia are a tribe in coastal North Carolina. The federal
government has never recognized them officially, though the State of
North Carolina has, and the heroes of today's story are
mostly Lumby and all of its centers around the Lumbee community.

(01:10:25):
So the Lumbia descended from a mix of SiO In, Algonquin,
and Iroquoian people. In addition, at least two Lumbe historians
claim that when the Lumbee met Scotch Irish and English
colonists for the first time, the Lumbia were already speaking English.
In fact, they were speaking this very old fashioned version
of English, and many of them had gray or blue
eyes and blonde hair. And so Adolph Diel, who's a

(01:10:47):
Lumbia historian, writes this plainly in his book The Only
Land I Know that the Lumbi are descended. In addition,
they're also descended from the lost colony of Roanoke, and
actual birth records and the like don't fucking exist. Dial
argues that the evidence matches up with the oral tradition
of the Lumbe as well, and at least one of
the people im I talk about today in the Lowry Wars,

(01:11:09):
which we'll be talking about a second, also believes that
this is true. But this is not actually full consensus
about where the Lumbee come from, but an interesting story,
and it's one that ties into what the Lowries that
I will be talking about seem to believe about themselves
as well. I just feel weird being like and this
is the origin of I mean, these people are still
fucking around right like, Yeah, you know I'm yeah, but

(01:11:33):
and there's not like consensus between in any given group
either way. In the eighteen sixties, the Lumbee are an
unrecognized tribe living in their own traditional territory in the Swampson,
North Carolina, centered on what becomes Robison County, and in
eighteen sixty four, with the Civil War raging all around them,
that's where the story of the Lowry Gang begins. Okay,

(01:11:54):
so yellow fever had just killed off a lot of
the enslaved people who are being forced to build a
place called Fort Fisher the Confederacy. So the Confederacy started
conscripting the Lumby and they conscript several cousins of the
Lowry family, which is a large and influential family in
that area. Henry Barry Lowry, he's our main character, and
a bunch of others. They hit out in the swamps

(01:12:15):
to avoid all this conscription. And it wasn't actually strictly
legal even within the Confederacy to force manual labor out
of people who weren't black. So but no white people
gave a shit that this is fucking happening, and so
they get away with it, and they would do this
thing called tied mule conscription, where you basically the example
version is you set a tied mule out on someone's

(01:12:36):
land and then or you like, let loose a bunch
of hogs or something, and then you wait for them
to get a quote stolen by the people whose land
it is. Wow, and then you blackmail them.

Speaker 2 (01:12:46):
Of course, yeah, of course you do.

Speaker 1 (01:12:50):
And so they get blackmailed for money or land or
forced labor so that they don't get taken a court.
Rich landowners have been doing the shit to the lumby
for a while, basically slowly stealing all their fucking land
by doing this. And one history and I was reading
and pointed out that this is it's comparable to how
plea bargains work. Right, You catch someone up on some
fucking bullshit charges and then you blackmail them into pleading

(01:13:11):
out for a lesser charger or fine.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Yes, yes, that's exactly it. Oh, it's so lame.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
Yeah, And that's what they're doing to these people. And
this guy named James P. Barnes, he was doing this
to some lowries and he probably would have lived to
regret it, but he didn't get a chance to live
to regret it because Barnes was a wealthy slave owner
and a minor Confederate official. And on December twenty first,

(01:13:38):
eighteen sixty four, after he'd accused some lowries of stealing
his hogs, he's on his way to the post office
when he gets shot with a shotgun and then takes
a bullet point blank to the head.

Speaker 3 (01:13:48):
True colative pointed at your dome, yeah, d.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
So next they kill this guy named James Brantley Harris,
who's a Confederate conscription officer, a known rape and a
sheriff who liked to round up all the non white
people and force them into labor camps. And in order
to tell you about Harris, I've got to tell you
about this idea called Scuffletown. Harris was supposed to keep
peace in this place called Scuffletown. And the thing is

(01:14:14):
is that, at least in none of the historians that
I've read and actually know exactly what Scuffletown means it.
It might be that some people know and I haven't
been able to find it. But Scuffletown was it was
the place that the lumbee met in Robison County at
the time. It was the center of the social world
and it was maybe a fixed location or maybe it
was just the word that they used for wherever they
all were, right, like a roving free space basically. And

(01:14:39):
so they're all at Scuffletown. It's Confederate fuck. Harris is
harassing a woman and two of the boys of the
Lowry clan stand up to him and he beats them
to death, this fucking sheriff. So everyone's fucking furious. They
all show up at the boy's funeral and a warrant
goes out for Harris, but he doesn't get to show
up in court because he was out pleasure riding in

(01:15:01):
his buggy when some people just fucking shot it up
and killed him in his buggy after he did this bullshit,
and maybe his body was thrown down a well, maybe
it was buried like facing north south instead of east
west and like basically as a sign of disrespect. Yeah,
And so now the Lowries have this sort of problem.
They've just killed a bunch of fucking people, and they're like, well,

(01:15:24):
we're probably not coming back from this, right, So they
decided to go on the offensive. And decades earlier in
North Carolina had passed gun control laws that basically said
free people of color weren't allowed to own guns, and
this applied to indigenous people as well. Of course, Yeah,
where fucking most of the gun control laws in this
country come from.

Speaker 2 (01:15:44):
Shit like that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
Yes, But so the lowries didn't have enough guns of
their own because it was harder for them to get them.
But they knew where some were kept, the courthouse where
they kept all the guns for the local militia. So
they fucking steal all the guns from the courthouse and
then they're like, all right, fuck it, we're all in.
And they basically just become robin hoods and they spend
they rob plantations, they distribute all the shit that they

(01:16:07):
steal in Scuffle Town. In all their raids, they avoid
robbing black folks, Indigenous folks, and then what get called buckskins,
which are the Scotch Irish who are sort of a
step below white at this time, they're still above indigenous
people and black people. And one time they actually do
rob this buckskin that they think is rich, but they
found out he only had fifteen bucks, so they just
give him his money back and let him go. I know,

(01:16:33):
they're so sweet.

Speaker 4 (01:16:34):
They're like, excuse me, you are broke, broke it's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:16:38):
Yeah, it's not gonna help. You're not helping, bro, It's
all good, don't worry about it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
So okay, So half their members are literally just people
with the last named Lowry. But the Lowry Gang was multiracial.
They had a bunch of people who had escaped enslavement,
at least one Confederate deserter, a handful of like random
white folks, especially buckskins, and for a while, a bunch
of Unions solders who are scaping pow camps, including one
of them who probably like is credited, who's credited for

(01:17:06):
training them in guerrilla tactics because he was a Union scout,
and and the Lowry Gang fucking loved guns. They just
they each one of them carried two to three revolvers,
a shotgun, a rifle, and a bowie knife. Apparently, I
don't even fuck, I don't know, but yeah, I'm impressed.

Speaker 2 (01:17:27):
It's a little bit excessive.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
Yeah, but I'm like, I'm just like, the how's the
physicality of carrying that many weapons? Like, okay, well, I mean,
full respect, there's a lot of things that people do
in that century that I'm not able to do. Yeah,
let me go ahead, fall back on these foods.

Speaker 1 (01:17:46):
And I feel like, because if you did it now, right,
you just need it. You're going a little overboard. It's
completely unnecessary to have that many guns. But think about
reloading in the nineteenth century, you know, and you're like,
you shoot your rifle, and do you want to wait
like forty seconds to reload your rifle or do you
want to drop it pick up your shotgun?

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
You know that's actually a that's actually.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
A tooche touche margarete.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Because yeah, like I ain't really got time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:15):
You can't just yeah, these ain't automatic weapons, like you
gotta like dang touche.

Speaker 2 (01:18:21):
I never even thought you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:22):
Are absolutely correct. Yeah, no, it makes sense because you like,
oh yeah, you can't just yeah, you got I just
need another gun.

Speaker 2 (01:18:32):
I can't just be like click click click click, like yeah, yeah,
good point on me.

Speaker 1 (01:18:38):
So Henry Lowry, he's there a leader, either formally or informally,
it's hard to know. His history books always pick a leader,
and sometimes people in history pick leaders, but not always right.
He always ties into the banjo thing. He's a he's
a quiet, handsome man. All everyone talks about that, and
he all he loves playing banjo and fiddle when he's
not murdering people who need murdering. Okay, and they're all

(01:18:59):
and they're all young as shit, which probably ties into
way have so many guns too, to be real true,
Like some of them are fourteen years old. Henry is
twenty when all this starts. They're numbers. They ebb and flow,
and they often would like just live their normal lives
and then go run off to the swamps when it's
time to avoid repression, and then would go join up
the gang when it's time to go, you know, rob

(01:19:19):
somebody who needs robbing full respect, And they basically just
act as the armed wing of Scuffle Town. It seems
like they and we know that Henry Lowry was like
sort of in charge or whatever, but they also operated
through voting. At one point, they decide to hang someone
based on majority vote, and whoa, Okay, yeah, I love

(01:19:40):
we gotta kill this guy. I thin't werenna kill this guy.
I'll guess let's story but later yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:43):
Yeah, yeah, what's out thing? We just I mean, so
we should like we should hang him, right all right?
So okay, look, show a hands, do we hang this
dude or not? I love it?

Speaker 1 (01:19:55):
Yeah, you imagine being that guy, and you're just like, no,
vote the other way.

Speaker 3 (01:19:59):
Yeah, yeah, i'd you're like, ah, no, man, like you
raise your mess Yeah, a messy, don't you think.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Yeah, Like, sorry, dude, you're outvoted. You're gonna get that.
This is what we're doing. Hey, sorry, homie, we gonna
hang you. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
And the whole larger community is helping them out, the
entire county, like the Lumbee folks, the black folks, and
a few of the white folks. Not the rich fucking
white folks around there, but they're all like passing along information,
they're scouting, they're treating the wounded, and at some point
they muster a militia to frustrate attempts to find them.
And the reason some of that stuff is important, to

(01:20:38):
quote historians Neil Shirley and Sarah le Stafford, to privilege
specific acts of banditry over this larger network of resistance
would be to misunderstand the roots of a rebellion that
had already begun well before the first assassinations of Confederate officers,
and would result in an over emphasis on the quote
men's work of an insurgency that actually involved the entire community.

(01:20:59):
I just like that, because it's like everyone is involved
in this shit, right, Like some of the people, mostly men,
are off doing the direct work, but all of the
other work that helps them is fucking just as important.
And so okay, So they've killed all these guys, right,
eighteen sixty five, six of them are rounded up, and
they go and they're put on trial, and they're put

(01:21:20):
on trial by actually I think I've heard you talk
about them. They're put on trial by the Home Guard,
which is the local policing body that led later to
the police that tracks down Confederate deserters, escaped Union prisoners,
and people escaping enslavement. So this is the precursor to
the police in the South as the Home Plus, which yeah,

(01:21:40):
behind the police. Is actually the first time I heard
of them, so that's why I was like excited to
put this in. So six folks are arrested, accused of
stealing food and weapons from nearby plantations and helping Confederate
deserters and escaped Union POWs all of They probably did
all this shit, right, they denied it. They were like, no,
we didn't do any of that. We're like innocent and stuff,
you know. Of course, no, we did it, Yeah, totally, nah, no,

(01:22:07):
it's not. Two of the Lowryes, Alan and William, who
are father and son. They get tried by this jury
that's made up of the fucking Home Guard and they're executed.
A few days later, the Home Guard shows back up
and arrests Grandma Lowry Mary. They tired of a fucking
steak and blindfold her and then mock executor, firing their

(01:22:28):
guns into the air above her, demanding that she tell
them where her sons are, and she refuses.

Speaker 3 (01:22:36):
Good for her, Yeah, you're you're a rider, Yeah, like
you have to know if your sons act like this,
your grant is this your grandchildren that are like riders
like this, then you definitely come from a stock to
where your grandmom is like, yeah, I'm a snitch on
my own grandchildren. Yeah, exactly, shoot your guns, shoot them, yeah,
keep shooting them and yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
And after this it actually calms down for a while,
and like several points in the story, it probably would
have all ended, except then the Home Guard decides to
fuck with Henry's wedding. Henry he marries his cousin, a
woman named Rhoda Strong, and the wedding is fucking I know,
those times are yeah, uh, it's one of them.

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:23:20):
So this is like one of the most important Lumby
families that universally loved. The feast table is seventy five
feet long, right for their fucking wedding. Hundreds of people
are there. And with hundreds of people there, the Home
Guard shows up to arrest Henry for the murder of
one of these Confederate focks that they killed earlier. So
he grabs like one of the only two white people
there and hides behind them, which I think is fucking brilliant.

(01:23:40):
So the cops don't shoot him, and then the entire
wedding party attacks the Home Guard unarmed. They're beaten back,
and eventually they do successfully arrest Henry, but they didn't
fucking kill him, which I think is completely possible.

Speaker 2 (01:23:53):
They would have just killed him there, you know. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:56):
Yeah, he goes to jail, He gets put on trial,
and he completely re uses to cooperate. He won't speak
on his own behalf, he won't cross examine witnesses. He's
just like, now, fuck this, fuck you, yeah, all day
every day. Yeah, because he knows his family has his back, right,
So he's in jail for not very long. He uses

(01:24:17):
a file to file through the bars of the jail
and then break out. And the oral yeah, the oral
tradition here is that that his wife wrote a strong
baked the file into a cake.

Speaker 3 (01:24:30):
So it's like, so it's like old school. This is
a movie cartoon. Yeah, let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:24:39):
Oh, it's going to get so much more cartoony.

Speaker 2 (01:24:42):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
And so what I was reading this, I was like,
is this where this comes from? This idea of bake
the file into the cake. No, it's older than this.
One time, like twenty years earlier, Alexander Duma had used
it as a plot point in one of his books.
And then like years later, so Irish anti colonial forces

(01:25:03):
bust someone out of jail in Ireland by doing this,
so dope, and so.

Speaker 2 (01:25:11):
I respect it so much. I respect it so damn much.

Speaker 1 (01:25:14):
So he files his fucking way out of the jail
and he's out. And then the Civil War comes to
an end, and when General Sherman passes through the area,
most of the Union members who are part of the
gang go and leave and rejoin the military. But even
with the Confederacy defeated, the US didn't stop Former Confederate
officials from continuing on in the new administration in the area,

(01:25:35):
and the KKK rises to power as an extra legal
arm of the repressive state, basically of course, and so
during this time, the poor folks in Robison County they
turn to the Lowries for protection, and the Republicans are like,
fucked right, because they're in a their base entirely loves
the Lowries, right, but their whole thing is that they're

(01:25:56):
trying to be like law and order, and so they're
incredibly divine on it. But in the end they reinstate
the bounty against Henry Lowry, which again, it all could
have just fucking stopped. If they'd stopped coming after this guy,
it all would have been fucking over. But the new
Republican sheriff and someone from the Freedman's Bureau, which is

(01:26:16):
the federal agency test with helping newly freed people. They
show up at Henry's house very politely, and they have
like a pleasant meal and a chat, and Henry plays
fiddle for them. They and they convince him. They're like, look,
your best shot is to go and stand trial and
be found innocent and put all of this behind you.
So he agrees and he goes off to jail because

(01:26:36):
he's like, all right, new administration, let's see what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
It is what it is? Yeah, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:26:41):
But when he's in jail, he starts hearing rumors that
there's a posse out to lynch him and they're going
to drown him in the river. So he's like, you
know what, you fuck this. There isn't enough fucking security
at the jail to stop a posse, which I think
Henry must have figured it means that there wasn't enough
security to keep him locked in. So one day the
guard comes to the meal and Lowry he pulls out
a gun and a knife on him, because I guess

(01:27:03):
when he turned himself in he just brought a gun
and a knife in case he needed them in jail,
just in case.

Speaker 3 (01:27:08):
How you'd be able to hi, how is his man
able to hold on to a gun and a knight? Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
I don't fucking know, h man, you lucky dog, and
saying yeah, His quote to the jailer that he pulls
the gun on is I'm tired of this.

Speaker 2 (01:27:21):
And then he just lets himself out of jail. What what?

Speaker 1 (01:27:28):
And then apparently on his way out of town, he
stops at a house and breaks in and steals crackers
to eat, and then leaves and goes into the swamps.

Speaker 2 (01:27:39):
I know, you know what I'm done playing with y'all. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
So six weeks later, the Lowery Gang is back in business,
and there's this wealthy landowner named Reuben King. He spent
decades catching enslaved people on the run, brutalizing Indigenous people
and evicting poor tenants. So the Lowry Gang shows up
at his house, kills him in his parlor and steals
all this shit. And so now instead of just being

(01:28:04):
instead of at war with the Confederacy, the entire large
community they're part of is now at war with the
new Republican government in the area. Okay, so the Republicans
they hire an ex Confederate again, Captain Owen Norman, to
hunt down the Lowryes. And you know his job during
the fucking Confederacy was that he hunted down indigenous folks
for the Confederacy, and now he's going to do it

(01:28:25):
for the Republicans. The Home Guard is disbanded, but now
you have the new Police Guard, which is I think
the same people doing the same thing.

Speaker 2 (01:28:32):
Literally the same Yeah, we won't let that pass. We
won't let that pass. Bido. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
So the police guard and this led by this guy Norman,
grab eight of the gang. Two of them do give
info under torture, but then like later repudiate their statements
and say not as is made under duress, and but
eight of their number being in jailed and slow anything down.
One newspaper at the time, which fucking hated them and
was like trying to talk shit on them, claim that

(01:28:59):
there's three hundred fighters in the Lowry gang, which is
probably an exaggeration, but there was there was no shortage
of people willing to go fucking do this shit in
the area. So a few days before the trial, this
asshole captain Owen Normant the he hears a noise at
his door at his fucking plantation, because of course he
lives on a fucking plantation.

Speaker 2 (01:29:19):
Of course he does, yes, And so.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
He goes outside because he hears a noise, and he
somehow finds himself with an extra bullet in him and
his family runs off to get a doctor who rushes
over in a buggy with a mule pulling it. And
then the poor mule is about a mile away from
the plantation when the mule also develops a case of
too many bullets and dies, which is as far as

(01:29:42):
like its the only innocent victim that the loweries get anywhere. Yeah,
or collateral damage bent out callous you're feeling, you know,
like whether you're not you shoot the mule. The mule,
I know, the doctor goes on on foot and it's
too late to save Norman. Norman dies and then this
is going to shock you. It turns out that killing
uh Norman didn't help the case of the people who

(01:30:04):
were on trial. You'd think, right, but no, yeah, it
didn't help.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
So at all.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Two of them get tried for one of the sheriff
killings and they're sentenced to hang. But meanwhile, wrote a
strong our jail brick, extraordinary wife smuggles an augur into
one of the three to three of the guys and
which is basically it's a drill bit with a handle
on it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:35):
That's how I was going to ask. So, yeah, just.

Speaker 3 (01:30:38):
You know, I know what it is, but remind me
specypically and in detail.

Speaker 6 (01:30:43):
Yeah, what's an augur? Yo say, I don't know what
it is? Yeah, No, that was the joke trying to make. Yeah, yeah,
I mean I I put it in the script. I
was like, I describe it too right, because I hear
an Augur in an article and I'm like, well, what
does that mean?

Speaker 1 (01:30:55):
The fucking nineteenth century? Right, like like now it's a
big gas power machine that I used to put in
fence posts. Oh, They're like, no, no, it's a jackhammer.
That's a that's for concrete thing. No, no, no, no.
I spend way too much my time think about power tools.
I live on a fucking such a city boy house
in the woods.

Speaker 2 (01:31:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:14):
So, but in Augur in this case, it's like, it's
a before you have a fucking power drill, you use
a hand drill. Right, So they they steal in a
they smuggle in a hand drill, and then they somehow
in this part I don't fucking get, they drill a
hole in the wall of they're selling escape Like I
don't know what they used to make jails out of.

Speaker 3 (01:31:35):
I'm and I'm like, wait, and I got no guards? Hey,
you know anybody here that y'all like where y'all? Like what, okay,
what tell.

Speaker 2 (01:31:47):
Me about y'all's prison system?

Speaker 3 (01:31:48):
And the thing is like it's not like I like,
I'm here for it all, but I'm like, I mean,
yall ain't here.

Speaker 2 (01:31:57):
Yall ain't here to augur. Yeah, I ain't see that,
y'all ain't see the fire.

Speaker 3 (01:32:01):
Y'all ain't hear the man filing the You ain't walk
by the jail cell and go, hey, man, why you
what are you rubbing rigorously on the bars?

Speaker 2 (01:32:12):
I didn't know.

Speaker 3 (01:32:13):
And then the man that was like, you know what, man,
And then when Naomi was like, you know what, man,
fuck this, I'm leaving.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
That's gonna get better. That like y'all like, who are
you hiring y'all?

Speaker 3 (01:32:24):
This must be like look, look, look they hiring teenagers.
You know what I'm saying that like just won't like
a minimum wate job, and it's like, oh, fuck, you
know what I'm saying, just woole work at the mall.
They hire people to work at GAP that are like, yeah,
steal the sweats. I don't care, am I sweats?

Speaker 2 (01:32:41):
Yeah, that's what's happening here.

Speaker 3 (01:32:43):
I don't pay me enough freaking mall cops like, steal
whatever person you want.

Speaker 2 (01:32:49):
I don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:32:51):
So so after this, after some of them break out,
they take the rest of them and they put them
in a brick jail.

Speaker 2 (01:33:00):
You know what, guys, I got some notes from last time.

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Uh, we should go with brick because Homie just drilled
a hole through the wall last time, so we should
probably just do you all right, guys, all in favor
of bricks, and maybe we shouldn't hire your fucking nephew, Jo.
I'm saying to watch them because that food must have
been drunk as hell or just don't care.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
And you know what, it was harder for them to
break out of the brick prison, but they did it
really quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
Anyway, let's go out.

Speaker 1 (01:33:35):
So this time, because this is a cartoon, Rona goes
in and seduces the guards. I fucking kid, you not
every out?

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Yes, this is who framed Roger Rabbit.

Speaker 3 (01:33:50):
Yeah this is yeah, he said, hey, you a big strong man.

Speaker 1 (01:33:56):
So she goes in and does this while and while
she's doing that, someone else goes to the window and
smuggles them a hatchet, a file, and a chisel, which
they then use to turn a spoon into a lock pick.

Speaker 2 (01:34:14):
How much time you got, how much time you got?
How fine is this girl? How much time you got.

Speaker 4 (01:34:23):
To do that?

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (01:34:25):
Yeah, so then they now they can come and go
from their cell whenever they want because they got a
lock pick. So they take their time. I assume at night,
but I don't know. They take their time. They find
an outside wall and they slowly chisel through the outside wall.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Oh my god, this is hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:34:41):
Whereupon they climb out on a rope made out of blankets.

Speaker 3 (01:34:46):
It's okay, you're Margaret, you're making this up, trolling me, Margaret.

Speaker 1 (01:34:51):
I checked more than one history book about as much
as the ship as I could.

Speaker 2 (01:34:55):
Because I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:34:57):
Like, okay, did you Yeah, some of this might have
gone into folklore. I'm reading this in history books. But
these people are fucking They are absolutely mythologized like Robin Hood.

Speaker 2 (01:35:09):
Of course, so but still.

Speaker 1 (01:35:12):
Yeah, except one guy doesn't break out. He's in a
different cell and he's like, you know what, I have
a solid alibi, which is true. So his employer vouched
for his whereabouts and he was found innocent, and then
he like never joins the gang again and just fucks off,
and it's like lives a quiet life. But but so

(01:35:32):
the gang keeps up their raids during all this shit,
even when people are in jail.

Speaker 2 (01:35:37):
This is so great. I love this. I got an alibi. Ya,
y'all do I'm cool.

Speaker 1 (01:35:43):
Yeah, I love it. I feel like that would be
me and all this. You know, I'm just like, well
that was fun, but I almost got hanged.

Speaker 2 (01:35:51):
And I'm good. I'm good.

Speaker 1 (01:35:53):
I got stories to tell my grandchildren.

Speaker 2 (01:35:54):
I'm good. I did all right. I'll just you know,
I'll just do it, y'all. Y'all, y'all, go ahead, just
bring me back some of rio.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
Yeah, yeah, okay. So then they hire an undercover cop.
They hire this guy named John Saunders, a detective out
of Boston who showed up and pretended to be a
Republican from the North, a white dude, and he starts
hanging out in Scuffletown and eventually makes acquaintances with the
Lowries and basically he's like, hey, you all, I can

(01:36:20):
smuggle you out to safety because they're in all of this,
the Lowries are looking for they're out right, yeah, They're
constantly like, how the fuck do we get out of
this alive? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:36:28):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
And he's fellow youths yeah, and so he's like, hey,
just follow me west to safety.

Speaker 1 (01:36:35):
But they don't quite trust him, so they keep an
eye on him and then they catch him. You know,
reporting back to his fucking other officers or whatever the fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:36:44):
Being a snitch. Yeah, they catch him being a snitch.
Hey guys, you guys want some drugs around this corner. Yeah,
you guys into drugs?

Speaker 2 (01:36:54):
Huh. You guys like smoking the smoking on the weed, huh.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
Come over here. I got him. I'm a fellow kid. Yeah,
I'm a bandit.

Speaker 2 (01:37:04):
Hey, look at me. I'm a bandit from the North.
I mean break it out of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
Yeah, I like vandalism, spray painting, some shit behind the
seven stupid spray painty.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
Hey, guys, I got some spray paint. Yeah, totally. So
they fucking catch you, right, of course.

Speaker 1 (01:37:25):
And they so they catch him, and they're like not
really into the cold blood and murder thing, but this
guy knows too much. And so here's where they put
it to a vote, and they vote to kill him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:37):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:37:37):
They let him write a letter to his wife. They
send a photograph of him and his last letter up
to his wife, and then they I think they shoot him.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
Maybe they hang him, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:37:48):
And at this point they're kind of just winning, Like
it's eighteen seventy. All the county's best law enforcement are
fucking dead. The police spy is dead, and all of
the lowries who've been captured have escaped. So they call
and federal troops. At this point, the whole fucking army
comes in, Federal troops, and so militias also start combing

(01:38:10):
the swamps for the outlaws. And then again, because this
is the most cartoon thing I've ever fucking relayed the
story of when the militia's out hunting for them in
the swamps, some of the lowries put on militia uniforms
and joined the hunt for themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
Now now it's bugs. Now it's looney tunes. Now it's bugs, bunny.

Speaker 1 (01:38:28):
Yeah, like yes, And what they what they found in
the swamps instead was potatoes, the finest potatoes that money
can buy, much like the potatoes that we advertise on
this show.

Speaker 2 (01:38:42):
Swamp potatoes.

Speaker 3 (01:38:43):
Yeah, it's nothing like it.

Speaker 1 (01:38:46):
This is a break to some ads, and now here
are some ads, all right, and we're back and we're
talking about swamp fries apparently.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
Which are gator tots.

Speaker 1 (01:38:55):
Yes, And so the militias in the air, ye're looking
for them as well as the federal troops. And the
militia is just fucking made up of KKK as far
as I can tell, and they, you'll be shocked to know,
gave up on the whole rule of law thing, and
so they just started going to the Yeah, they go
to the lowry residents and they try to capture and
murder murder them, and they kill at least one of

(01:39:16):
them this way. However, the KKK leader responsible, John Taylor,
also developed a case of too many bullets and dies.
But then so then the militia is like, all right,
we're going after your supporters, and so they murder a
black man who was supporting them, and two of the
white men responsible for killing that black man were then

(01:39:38):
immediately killed by the lowries. And then the Conservatives come
to power. The Republicans, they kind of lost all their
wealthy support because they didn't catch the lowries, and then
they lost all their working class support because they were
going after the lowries in the first place. And the
KKK is riding around fucking intimidating voters and being regular
worse things that's ever happened.

Speaker 3 (01:39:56):
Yeah, dude, they had their moment, Yeah, their moment of
shining where and it's like, we should probably end shadow slavery.

Speaker 2 (01:40:06):
They just haven't clocked a w since.

Speaker 1 (01:40:08):
Yeah, exactly, God, So the Conservatives put a bounty of
twelve thousand dollars on the heads of each of the Lowries.
So the Loweryes then put bounties back on the county
commissioner and a bunch of the other folks working. They
don't have as much money, so because they only offer
a thousand dollars, the county commissioner two hundred for a
bunch of the people working for him. But then racists

(01:40:31):
from all around come to Robison County and they're looking
for the bounty money. Right one Lowry gang member named
apple White is ambush near his house. He's shot in
the back and then in the mouth, But then the
posse that shoots him is afraid that he has friends around,
so they take off running and they plan to come
back later for the body. When they come back, apple
White he's gone, and so they they harass his wife.

(01:40:53):
They arrest his brother for no good reason. A few
days later, another posse finds Henry Lowry's cabin in the
swamps and they creep up on it and there's apple
White and he he had crawled away, spit the bullet
out of his mouth and was resting in the sun
at the Lowry's house.

Speaker 4 (01:41:07):
What, yeah, this really is a movie?

Speaker 2 (01:41:12):
I know, why is it not one? Yeah? Well raises
it mostly? Oh well yeah, but well.

Speaker 3 (01:41:21):
Yeah, uh my man caught the bullet with his two
front teeth.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Okay, spits out the bullet keeps going. It's the bullet out.

Speaker 3 (01:41:31):
Hey, seriously, if you shoot at somebody and they spit
the bullet out, the fight's over.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
It's done. Lead that person today own devices.

Speaker 1 (01:41:44):
Oh my god, one time, one day, I'm gonna tell
the story of al Fusilado and the Mexican in the
Mexican Revolution. This guy gets put in front of a
firing squad and shot with like thirteen bullets or whatever,
and he doesn't die. So the officer comes up, puts
a gun to his head and shoots him in the
head and he doesn't die. And so so then they're like,
you know what, you can go like, we shot you

(01:42:06):
in the fucking head and twelve times in the body.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
I don't know what to say anymore. Guys. Yeah, look, listen,
let me tell you something.

Speaker 3 (01:42:15):
Your little politics I talk all the time about, Like listen,
if you if you you know is the rule? If
you're about to get jumped, you know, which hopefully this
doesn't happen to anybody. And one, we're full grown adults now,
so this is stupid. But if you were, it's like,
you have to like lose your mind on the toughest

(01:42:35):
of them. Whoever toughest is or the loudest is in
that group, you got to lose your mind on them
so that everybody else thinks twice, right.

Speaker 2 (01:42:43):
Yeah, la, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
So that like, and that gives you that split second
because they're like, oh, dang, he just punched that. She
just punched the baddest of all of us. Okay, we
should probably like, yo, let's think twice about this. So
and it's the same as the other way around. Somebody
bought a fist up, caught their arm back and fire
on you and you just take it. Yeah, then then

(01:43:07):
it's time then yeah yeah, like that food that your
jaws steal.

Speaker 2 (01:43:12):
So lead this person alone.

Speaker 1 (01:43:14):
That's what I used to do. I was like when
I was more of a street kid. Someone who's drunk
and looking for a fight punches you, and it sounds
kind of counterintuitive. It's not like someone punches and you're
like oh no, I'm so sorry. I wish you hadn't
punched me. But instead someone punches and you just stare
at them. Yes, then they go find someone else to fight. Now,
if someone's trying to fuck you up, that don't work, right,

(01:43:35):
But like yeah, if someone's looking for a fight and
they punch you and you just stare them down, they
fuck usually fuck off, yeah, because they're just.

Speaker 3 (01:43:42):
Like, ah, that just gave you everything I had, Yeah,
and that was it?

Speaker 6 (01:43:47):
Yeah yeah yeah, and you just you just take it
just like Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:51):
It's a hard it's a hard math to figure out though, right,
it really is.

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
It really is unless you're a fighter.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
Like if you're a fighter and somebody to your best
punch and just drank it, yeah, then you like, oh
yeah that's it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
Let me go ahead, because I don't know what your swing.
Don't feel like anyway?

Speaker 3 (01:44:09):
Yeah. So yeah, a man that takes a firing squad
and a point blank and just looks at you like y'all,
y'all good, like we done here? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:44:20):
Are we done?

Speaker 1 (01:44:22):
All? Right?

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
Them out?

Speaker 1 (01:44:23):
Yeah, and he just lives the rest of his life.
I can't remember what work he got up to. It's
been a while since I read his story. But all right,
So they show up at Henry Lowery's cabin. There's fucking
bullet spinner apple White, and they get into a gunfight,
and then the gunfight goes on for a while, like
from inside the cabin, outside the cabin, and then all
the shooting stops. So they run up on the cabin
and they break in and there's a hidden hatch in

(01:44:44):
the basement of a fucking cabin that leads to a
tunnel that goes sixty three through the fucking swamps. And
they've gotten the fuck out brilliant, which is an important thing.
If you're gonna be a bandit gang, you need a
fucking tunnel under your house.

Speaker 3 (01:44:56):
You need a tunnel dog. Come on, man, Yeah, that's
a no brainer. And you and nim swamps don't nobody
know where you like, You can't navigate swamp, you can't
map swamps.

Speaker 2 (01:45:05):
You have to just be. You have to just be
from there.

Speaker 1 (01:45:07):
Yeah, which is I mean, I didn't even get into
the Maroons during the last episode one day or a
whole thing about them. But yeah, people, if you know
the swamps, you can fucking do a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 (01:45:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
So okay, so they get away, right, But at this
point two of their people are in jail, one member
of their gang and then one of their supporters that
the brother, right, and they're like, well, this isn't going
to do. So a whole bunch of them show up
armed at the jail and they just hold up the
jail at gunpoint and they're like, hey, let our friends go,

(01:45:38):
and they do.

Speaker 3 (01:45:40):
Yes, because it's fifteen year olds that are good in prison.

Speaker 2 (01:45:43):
Yeah, and fifteen year olds with guns on the outside too.

Speaker 3 (01:45:46):
To be real, you know, oh yeah, I forgot the
only I forgot. Everything happens. You've already ran for president
at nine.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:54):
Nineteenth century, Yes, Lincoln was actually fourteen. He just looks
real sport, just the haggard fourteen.

Speaker 3 (01:46:02):
It was just a really hard life out there, man,
he's real, really fourteen yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:46:08):
So basically the entire community is ungovernable at this point, right, yes,
And taxes weren't able to be collected in the area,
No warrants were being served in the area. Black train
hands were sending warnings down the line whatever troops were
approaching by rail, and so the Conservative government by eighteen
seventy one, they give up trying to target the gang,

(01:46:28):
and they just start terrorizing the entire community. And they
start arresting familiar Yeah, and they started arresting Lumbey women
in their homes and they basically are like, well, you know,
these people are involved too or whatever. So and during
all of this, again this is a story I read
from one or two historians, but again it's CARTOONI as shit,
But this is the story. Yeah, during all this, some

(01:46:51):
soldiers stumble upon Henry and he's like rowing down the river,
so they open fire on him, so he dives into
the water. He overturns his boat as cover, and then
instead of running away, he advances on them and then
picks them off one by one until they all fuck
off and run.

Speaker 2 (01:47:04):
And now it's now it's Rambo. Okay, yeah, now it's Rambo.

Speaker 3 (01:47:09):
Now he's Jean Claude Vand now this is the Steven
Sagall movie.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Yeah, okay, and I believe it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:17):
Yeah, I mean I know right like it's it's it's
fucking because the tropes come from somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:47:23):
Yeah, yeah, because tropes come from somewhere. Yeah. So you like, okay,
that's incredible. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:47:29):
And so then they send the sheriff a letter, and
they say, we make a request that our wives, who
are arrested a few days ago and placed in jail
be released to come home to their families by Monday morning,
and if not, the bloodiest times will be here that
ever was before. The life of every man will be
in jeopardy. That is the most polite. Oh my, I

(01:47:52):
love how polite these people were back there.

Speaker 4 (01:47:55):
Yeah, like, now, prop prop did they release them or
did they not release them?

Speaker 2 (01:48:00):
Of course they released it. Of course they did. Somebody
somebody that somebody that dangerous. That calm.

Speaker 3 (01:48:10):
That's another thing. Somebody that that's dangerous and that calm.
You know, Okay, you know something I don't because you're
suposed to come up in here.

Speaker 2 (01:48:18):
Being like listen, listen, I don't see my ladies by tonight.
I'm murdering. I'm gonna kill your fucking parakeets too.

Speaker 3 (01:48:27):
Everybody dying. Everybody, everyone's dying. I'm taking a train. I'm
taking a train to Tennessee, and I'm finding your grandma.
I'm murdering. Where your ma mistake? Where your grandma mistay?
Where your homeboys stay? Everybody dying? That's how you posted
to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:48:45):
He's like, you know, this is gonna be a really
hard day for everybody.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
I'm just I'm just saying, all the men are in
danger if you don't give us our ladies back.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
Yeah, okay, And so it works, and of course, but
they can't actually as as fucking hard as they are
and as much as they rule, they can't actually get
up keep up their antics with federal troops everywhere, right, Like,
they're not doing a lot of robbery at this point,
but they do apparently get up some good shenanigans. And again, okay,
this is reported by the William Williamton Star at the time,

(01:49:17):
a newspaper at the time. Okay, an officer received a
note from Lowry that said, and I'm paraphrasing here, just
to make sure y'all were doing okay, I took it
upon myself to come into your your camp and inspect
your guns. And so then they they searched their guns,
and Henry Lowry has signed his name on one of

(01:49:39):
the fucking guns these dub And again, I don't know
what the fuck is truth or myth here, but this
is what's being reported at the time, this is what's
being reported in the history books. I'm just yeah, these
people fucking.

Speaker 2 (01:49:51):
Rule, even if it's myth it's so great. Yeah, this
is great.

Speaker 3 (01:49:57):
This is great mythology, even if it is myth Yeah,
and wonderful at least some huge chunk of it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:03):
I mean again, I don't fucking know, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:50:05):
Yeah, okay, And so both both sides actually want this
to end at this point, and so there's this brief
truce and then some of the like wiser heads in
the government are like, hey, why don't we just give
them all pardons and then this could all fucking go away. Yeah,
But the law and order crowd is like, hell no,
And so the truce disappears.

Speaker 2 (01:50:24):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:50:25):
So the Lowry's rob one thousand dollars from a merchant
in town, and then they steal the iron safe out
of the sheriff's office with twenty two thousand dollars inside.

Speaker 2 (01:50:36):
Another cartoon moment, all right.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
And then Henry Lowry just fucking disappears.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Gone. Yeah in the wind.

Speaker 1 (01:50:44):
Bounty hunters combed the area for the next two years.
They kill at least three of the gang during all
of us. One of them this one of the Scott's
Irish members, Zachariah McLaughlin. He got to drinking with some
other white guy, and he told him like, hey, you
should join this gang. And then the white guy for
Zack to fall asleep, shot him in the head with
his own pistol and turned his body in for the bounty.

(01:51:06):
And then that dude got the fuck out of Robinson County.

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
Yes, I was gonna say, like, you're gonna turn You're
gonna turn in somebody that's like a gangster like that
dude put the money, you bet it disappear. You better
get to Canada real soon. Yeah, because get your money,
get up out of here, which I kind of feel
like that's what Lowry did twenty two thousand.

Speaker 2 (01:51:25):
Yeah. Man, he in France, homie.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
Yeah, he's fucking He's gone. And then to quote the
historians I was quoting earlier, Neil Shirley and sarahly Stafford.
They have a book called Dixie b Damned about rebellions
in the South, and they sum up the theories with
this quote or this is a quote I'm summing up
with theories. A variety of folk tales, legends, and hypotheses exist,

(01:51:47):
some supported by more evidence than others, but all inconclusive.
That Lowry escaped the county undercover as an injured soldier
with the help of a sympathetic general, that he faked
his own death and funeral with a straw stuffed corpse,
later a skin from the country in a stolen military uniform,
that he escaped by train in his own coffin, that
he survived his endeavors and emerged under a different name

(01:52:09):
as a leader of native resistance in the Pacific Northwest.
A few years later, that he died on his brother's
Tom's land by accidental discharge of his rifle, secretly buried
by his comrades to continue the legend and rebellion and
symbolic status. Local newspapers tended to prefer the accidental death story,
but their papers also had a political interest in undermining
the legend of the man. What's more, neither the body

(01:52:31):
nor the grave site of Henry Barry Lowry has ever
been found.

Speaker 2 (01:52:36):
I loved so. Yeah you think he's in France?

Speaker 3 (01:52:42):
Nah? I think, yeah, headed to the Northwest. I could
see that and being like, look, we was able to
do this down here. Yeah, I'll bet you we could
pull this off if they think I'll go And then again,
I'm just like, if you got that much money, yeah, yeah,
you out. Yeah, Like I'm out. What I did, My
work here is done. I'm out, Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:53:03):
Ann ain't an you ain't.

Speaker 3 (01:53:04):
Fighting federal soldiers, you know what I'm saying. And y'all gangsters.
So it's like, you know, you look, we'd have done y'all.
Look y'all get y'all. Y'all got y'all thousand dollars. Y'all
need to get the fuck out the city too. Like
you don't need me to tell you, y'all get y'all
go for I got mine.

Speaker 2 (01:53:19):
You go get yours. Yeah, I'm out. Yeah, you know
what I'm saying. Totally. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53:24):
So there's there's one more story in all this. It
happens in Robison County with the Lumbee and fighting against
racist and shit.

Speaker 2 (01:53:32):
That's worth it.

Speaker 1 (01:53:33):
I mean, there's a million more stories we're telling. This
is the other one that looms large in a lot
of this history, and this is the Battle of Hayes Pond.
It's like one hundred fucking years later, it's nineteen fifty
eight and the Lumbee were targeted by the KKK. On
January thirteenth. The clan burned two crosses, one in the
yard of a Lumbe family who'd moved into a white neighborhood,
and one on the yard of a white woman who

(01:53:54):
is believed to be sleeping with a Lumbee man, a
South Carolina grand dragon or wizard or and to whatever
D and D shit they named themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:54:02):
Yeah, just yeah, anyway, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:54:05):
His name is fucking James Catfish Coal and oh my god, yeah,
oh my god, these guys, I know, like, you name
yourself a wizard and a catfish, I'm supposed to take
you serious.

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
I'm just unpleased to take you serious.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
Yeah, And so he decides he's gonna throw a big
old clan rally to end all the race mixing, and
he tries to run a field near town, but everyone's
like fuck you. So eventually he finds a place to
have their rally further out of town, like ten miles
out of town. And apparently the sheriff was like, hey, hey, Bud,
you really might not want to do this. People might
not like it if you do this. Yeah, but the

(01:54:39):
brave grand l for Hobbit or whatever it decides to
do it anyway. And so you know, I have to
hate someone if I'm going to drag D and D
That's how much I fucking hate them, is that I'm
willing to pick on nerds even though I fucking play
D and D. Okay, of course, So they have the
rally an old grand catfish coal he wants. He thinks
five thousand of his dudes are going to show up

(01:55:00):
fifty two.

Speaker 2 (01:55:01):
I was like, you ain't getting no five okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:04):
Yeah, but five hundred lumbees show up, and everyone on
all sides is armed, and so there's this tense stand off.
It's mostly the lumbe making fun of the dumb fucking clansmen,
of course, and then there's like the shortest scuffle. One
lumby man pulls down the KKK bander and the Klan
only had like one light bulb to light up their
makeshift stage attached to a generator or whatever. So someone

(01:55:26):
fucking shoots it out, and then a bunch of other
people start shooting, and I think the lumbe might have
been being nice here and shot into the air because
no one's injured in all this, and they're surrounded by
five hundred armed fucking people.

Speaker 3 (01:55:38):
Yeah yeah, they were like, look, dude, show a little
lame ass out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:55:42):
So what happens next Yeah, yeah, exactly. Lumbee historian Melinda
Maynor Lowry puts it like this, Cole took off running
in the swamps. His panicked followers dropped their guns, jumped
in their cars, and drove in all directions, some straight
into the ditches surrounding the field. Cole abandoned his own
white Caroline at the scene. She either escaped on foot

(01:56:03):
with her three children, or, as some Lumbees like to
tell the story, drove her car into a ditch and
had to have Lumbee men pull her out. Miraculously, no
one was seriously injured. Even though Sandford Lockleyar's threat to
kill Cole was real, one of the people was like,
I'm gonna fucking kill Cole. Wow, I'm still puzzled that
no one got killed, said one of the women who
confronted the Klan and Catfish.

Speaker 2 (01:56:24):
Cole.

Speaker 1 (01:56:25):
He goes and he hides in the swamps and he doesn't
come out of his hiding place for two fucking days
after the shit, and he's arrested for inciting a riot,
extradited from South Carolina, and he's given like eighteen months.
And one of the one of the jury was like,
they were like, why do you convict? And he was
like a lot of very angry people with guns were

(01:56:46):
very very interested in this man being convicted this oh
and you know that catfish. On his like sentencing or whatever,
he makes this grand statement about how the Core is
proving him right, that the country is falling into like
communism and dictatorship.

Speaker 2 (01:57:04):
Of course, of course it doesn't sound familiar to now
at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no one's ever done that.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
The guy who grabs the banner, he has his photo
taken to two guys have their photo taken wrapped in
the banner and become a celebrity. And he gets thousands
of letters of support from eight different countries. And this
ends KKK activity in Robison County. So that's the story
of the Lowry Gang, or sometimes called the Lowry Wars.

(01:57:30):
They live on in legend in North Carolina. And I
thought it fitting to end with them because I think
it's I think it's important to like really drive home
that the rebellion against the Confederacy wasn't necessarily a pro
union thing, it was a pro freedom thing.

Speaker 2 (01:57:42):
And kept going.

Speaker 3 (01:57:44):
That's dope, I what am I trying to say here?
There's something that I've always like, I haven't been able
to put words on until recently. That's so unique about
the type of like going back to this clan guy
then and this last thing in nineteen fifty eight, like this,

(01:58:07):
I just don't understand, Like there's so many ways in
the black community to say that's none of my business,
just my your own business, Like you know, we just
be like, look, that's your business, Like listen, listen, my
n ain't been ittt, I ain't in it. I mean,
we just have a million ways just to be like,
that's none of my business, you know what I'm saying, Like,

(01:58:29):
I just don't listen. If I see two Korean people
talking on the train, they talking to each other in
their own language, that's none of my business you talking.
So this man is so mad about something? Who is ladies?
Who this lady smashing fox doors down? What the hell
she got to do with you? It's none of your business.

(01:58:50):
This family moves into this house, what it's none of
your business. I just don't like, like, why do you
make shit that's not your business. It's a specific type
of white supremacy to me that makes everything they business.
And I'm just like you, Yeah, I'm like, look, let

(01:59:10):
me let me okay, clan, let me give you some pointers.

Speaker 2 (01:59:15):
You can.

Speaker 3 (01:59:18):
Do your racism. But why you look so stupid to
us is because you worried about shit that ain't your business.

Speaker 2 (01:59:26):
What the fuck you can? What the fuck do you care? Like,
why do you care about that?

Speaker 4 (01:59:31):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:59:31):
And I'm like, and that evolves into the Karen phenomenon.
You just feel like shit is your business, and I'm
just like, that's mind your own fucking business. Like, how
many things would just be if you just mind your
own just mino, that's not your business. And it's like,
to me, one of listen, one of the easiest things

(01:59:55):
to discern. To me, the easiest thing in the world
for me to understand is what's my business and what's
not my business?

Speaker 2 (02:00:05):
Yeah, Margaret, you are part of the trans community.

Speaker 1 (02:00:10):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (02:00:10):
You know why I have.

Speaker 3 (02:00:11):
No thoughts about that because it's none of my business.

Speaker 2 (02:00:15):
If that's what you want to do, it ain't my business. Yeah,
j Unders says. I'm just like, it was so easy.
It is so easy for me.

Speaker 3 (02:00:24):
Yeah, you know, I just don't understand why people don't
understand what is not their business.

Speaker 2 (02:00:31):
Yeah, I got that.

Speaker 4 (02:00:33):
Why so many of them are politicians.

Speaker 2 (02:00:37):
That's what John says. Wad Yeah, why did those people
grow up? And I'm because they think everything is their business?

Speaker 1 (02:00:43):
So they should because they take everything they totally.

Speaker 3 (02:00:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:00:46):
The number of people who thinks their business whether or
I'm wearing a dress in public or whatever, it's fucking wild.
I'm like, it's why, listen, does this impact the fact
that I'm trying to buy French fries at my favorite
French frying poor?

Speaker 3 (02:00:56):
Um no, no, Margaret, if you and front of me
in address, you know what I'm thinking about? What size
fries I want? Yeah, exactly, That's what I'm thinking about. Yeah,
I'm just like, I'm not good, it's not my business.

Speaker 2 (02:01:14):
That's a total stranger.

Speaker 4 (02:01:15):
Yeah, you know, it comes back to potatoes.

Speaker 2 (02:01:18):
It all comes back.

Speaker 3 (02:01:19):
I just want to know what sized fries I'm gonna get.
That's all I'm worried about. And I'm looking to see
if they just fried him back there. I hope they
hopefully they fresh. That probably impacts what size you want
to you know exactly.

Speaker 2 (02:01:31):
If I look out there and I'm like, they ain't
dip those in in a while, I go to small.
But if I'm like he just made them right. Let
me get it, Let me get a bucket. Yeah, you know,
Oh my god, I want French fries so bad. Learning
now so bad as soon as we get on. Yeah,
that's what I mean. Yo, this was great. Thanks for
having me. Yeah, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:51):
This the new show on the on the on the
media zone. Huh the cool Zone.

Speaker 4 (02:01:55):
Yeah, it's a new Czum joint.

Speaker 2 (02:01:57):
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Welcome to the family. Thank
you you.

Speaker 4 (02:02:01):
Yeah you wanna you wanna plug that cool Zone media
show that that you host, prop.

Speaker 2 (02:02:06):
Yo, I'm on a cool zone too, man. It's called
hood politics. You know what I'm saying. Uh we hood
politics will prop Like I am of the belief that.

Speaker 3 (02:02:17):
You understand more than you think you understand. You just
need somebody to point at it, you know. And especially
if you were, as Margaret said, at some point a
street kid, you know, then you understand more than you
think you do. And that's really what the Hood Politics
is about.

Speaker 2 (02:02:32):
And I enjoy doing it.

Speaker 1 (02:02:36):
It's a good fucking show and people should listen to it.
Thank you, although I kind of assume most people are
listening to us. I've already heard it, but just in
case you haven't.

Speaker 2 (02:02:43):
You never know, you got your own fans. You know
what I'm saying, Well, lets you be listening to your show.
That's what I mean, That's what I'm insinuating.

Speaker 4 (02:02:50):
Yeah, Yeah, And we'll be back on Monday, right, Margaret.

Speaker 2 (02:02:58):
Back on Monday. Stuff. Cool Stuff in the Cool Zone Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:03:07):
They cool people who did Cool Stuff is a production
of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,
visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get
your podcasts.