Part One: Lakota Resistance to the American Empire

Margaret talks with Miriam about two centuries of resistance to American imperialism, from Crazy Horse to Leonard Peltier.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Cool Zone Media.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to it could happen like bastards are dying?
Is cool Doing cool Stuff? Wow? Eh, that's my that's
my cool Zone Media mixed with the show that isn't
Cool Zone Media introduction or well you all know the
title of it. You clicked on it in the thing.

(00:26):
Everyone else is holding up dogs and or dog pillows.
But my dog is out saving the world from airplanes
by running around my yard barking at them, and not
a single airplane has come into my yard since my
dog has started keeping watch. So I will just say earlier, yeahshaw, okay,
shout out to someone sent me a message where someone

(00:48):
was like, oh, I really liked that podcast Cool People
Did Cool Stuff. I can't remember the name of the host.
You know that lady who like lives alone with her dog?
And I'm like, oh, is that who you are? You're
the lady who lives alone with her dog? Yeah, I'm
doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
So the podcast that you're all listening to is cool
People Did Cool Stuff. The voices you are hearing is
our producer Sophie. Hi, Sophie, I Margaret, I missed you.
I missed you too, And what is the name of
your dog splash dog pillow.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
Oh, I'm holding an exact replica pillow of my dog
Anderson that my best friend Robin gave us. It's pretty amazing,
is amazing, and Anderson sleeps on her Anderson pillow.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
So that's that's pretty great, so beautifully narcissistic.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
I love that she's alive. Yeah. The other voice you
are hearing is my guest, Miriam.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
I'm hi, I'm Miriam. I'm also holding up a dog.
This is a real dog and not a cushion, although I.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Could not convince me. Yeah, this is a cushion shaped dog,
a furry cushion.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah, this is a cushion that eats a surprising amount
of dog food.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
There are dogs in today's episode, not a lot of them. Well,
actually there are a lot of them, but they're not
a major part of the story.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
I don't know what today's episode is about, because all
the only hint you would text me was that it
was suggested to you by my girlfriend. And when I
asked my girlfriend, they didn't remember. So I guessed the
two most likely people that they would have suggested to you.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
They were wrong, wrong on both cowns.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
No, Bo didn't tell you to do, Fred Hampton.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I most told me to do a lot of people,
but the particular person we're doing today, this week and
next week. It was going to be a one two parter,
but immediately got carried away because there's so much cool
shit that's going to happen. I'm also a lot of
heartbreaking shit because today we are going to talk about
Lakota resistance to the American Empire. Fantastic.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Mo is bouncing up and down next to me because
I'm wearing headphones. We are talking about Lakota resistance to
the American Empire. Yeah, most really happy about that.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Eventually, it's going to culminate into something that is happening now,
which is that there is a campaign that has been
going on longer than I've been alive to get a
man named Leonard Peltier free. That's where we're going to
talk about next week. First, we're going to talk about
the nineteenth century shit this week, which is also cool
and also unfortunately heartbreaking. But next week we'll talk about

(03:40):
the twentieth century and how it continues into the twenty
first century and hopefully not into the centuries after that. Instead,
people will be like, man, remember when there used to
be a United States of America instead of a confederation
of Indigenous lands, and people will be like, that's wacky,
and that's and then someone will get mad because we'll
have figured out something the word whacky not having never

(04:02):
mind anyway.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
So you're I like, how you're imagining future people to
get mad at you. Yeah, yeah, kind of the opposite
of imagining a guy to get mad at Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
It's probably because I joined back on Twitter. I was
free for months, Margret, Why did you do this? Because
I wanted more up to date news about the genocide
that my tax dollars are funding. Because the New York
Times will look at things like hundreds of thousands of
people marching in DC and say thousands of people gather

(04:35):
and then say even in the article, it was like,
we don't know how many people. And I'm like, crowd
estimates are as old as journalism, Like I can do
crowd estimates. By the time you've been to your like
fifth massive demonstration, you can do crowd estimates. Oh crap,

(04:56):
our audio engineers, Ian, this would have been a cursed episode,
Hi ian Ian. So we're going to start with an
awful lot of context.

Speaker 4 (05:07):
Because oh man, context I know from me on cool people.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I know cool context that happened the cool terrible context
that happened to cool people. That's I will say for once.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
I'm pretty sure the cool context is not going to
take us to medieval Ireland so or pre Roman Ireland.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Even I wonder if I can get that in here,
unfortunately in a very bad way, because we are going
to talk at some point about how settlers, often coming
from colonize in the pressed situations, become bad once they
enter a settler position, which, of course there's no modern
context anyway, think of any No, certainly not nothing that

(05:51):
got me back on Twitter. Okay, So I would argue
that the biggest lie I got told by my American
education was that the Revolutionary War was a good thing.
This is like my least popular opinion, if you ask
the broad population. The Revolutionary War was a was a

(06:12):
lateral move at best. And I'm going to explain why
I believe that this is the case.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
I mean, you should make that point and make it hard,
but spoiler alert, I already agree with you.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah no, yeah, that doesn't surprise me. The most important
thing is that I got kind of told it was
certainly heavily implied that this is the end of colonization, right,
We're no longer colony. We are now a nation, and
so colonization has ended. This is an absolute lie. The
American Revolution was the unleashing of unfettered colonization that continues

(06:44):
to this day. An anti colonial independence movement is when
the indigenous people and cultures of an area retained control
over their terrain. This is not what happened in the
American Revolutionary War, because in like the seventeen fifties or
so for anyone, the American Revolution was seventeen seventy six

(07:05):
to seventeen eighty three. In the In the seventeen fifties,
Britain controlled only the east coast of the United States
the Midwest, basically everything past the Appalachian Mountains was claimed
by France, who generally had friendlier relationships with various indigenous nations,
not because they were like, we're so good, French government

(07:29):
is nicer, but basically like they just they weren't as
interested in settling. They were much more interested in the
fur trade. They already had a good way of extracting
money from that area, basically.

Speaker 3 (07:44):
And they were they were doing more of their atrocities
elsewhere in the Americas.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Yeah, that makes sense. The French kept also then they
were still fucking up these areas too, to be clear,
They kept trying to make people have like a clear
cut authoritarian hierarchy and use capitalism and all that shit,
and all these various nations are like, why the fuck
would we do that? We already have our own cool,
complicated systems already, right, that baffle the mind of the

(08:10):
you know, Western European hierarchical thinking, not because.

Speaker 3 (08:15):
You know, you're not You're not dealing with people who
are like, who are going to be good to deal
with when they demand that you restructure your entire society
in order to have a fucking conversation.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so the British were like, well,
we want to go west of the Appalachians especially, we
want that. Actually this is more of the British colonists,
the Americans as they call themselves, and they're like, we
especially want that, sweet sense.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I like that you just dead named the American colonists.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah that's right, fucking Brits.

Speaker 3 (08:53):
George Washington, who calls himself a American.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Now, yeah, so they want Ohio and so then we
get do you know that we had a world war
in the eighteenth century. I do know that I didn't
really I like, vaguely, vaguely new. I'm going to call
this World War zero or that's very cool thing to

(09:17):
call it. Yeah, and it probably didn't deserve it. But
and this is called the Seven Years War, or if
you grew up in the United States, it's called the
French and Indian War, which is not France and indigenous
folks fighting against each other. It's US fighting against the
French and indigenous people. It's basically a pissing match. The
World War zero is a pissing match between France and

(09:38):
England that dragged half the world into it because of colonization,
and it obviously involved North America as well. The English
colonists fought the French, and some indigenous nations fought on
each side of that war, basically whatever suited their specific interests.
England wins that war. By seventeen sixty three, France in

(10:00):
England signed the Treaty of Paris. Spain gets Louisiana, England
gets the rest of the territory of New France, basically
the Midwest.

Speaker 3 (10:08):
Shit well, and Louisiana went up a lot further on
that map than it does now.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Yeah, that makes sense. Okay, England gets Florida from Spain.
Plus there's a bunch of shit that England steals from
the French who had already stolen it in Africa and
the Indian sub continent. And this is always really funny
to me when you imagine the people like dividing up
this territory, because imagine like me and my neighbors like

(10:35):
go break into someone's house and then while the people
who are living there are like screaming at me and shit,
we just start to start fighting over like who gets
what bedroom? You know, That's what this war was.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yes, that is funny and not at all horrifying.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
No, oh my god, there's so much horror movie like,
Oh American history, this is going to be a rough one. Yeah,
I mean yeah, but there'll be really beautiful moments.

Speaker 3 (11:02):
I mean most of the ones that you've had me
on for have involved genocide. I think the Pirate one
was genocide free mostly, but you know.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
It's yeah, that was just instead of different kind of
moral complexity, like the immoral dis choice that I made
to make my sailor friend come on and talk about pirates.
That was great. Mariam had like one rule, just never
have me on about pirates, and I was like, let's
talk about pirates anyway, y'all should go back and listen

(11:31):
to that one. So so the colonists are like, fuck, yeah,
we won this war. We're gonna go rob that fucking
land a sweet Ohio it's waiting for us, you know.
But they didn't actually get to go there right away. First,
you get, well, two things gonna happen roughly at the
same time. You get Pontiac's War, where a ton of
indigenous people got together and are like, fuck you Brits,

(11:53):
get the fuck out. We were okay with the French kinda,
you all are way worse. This ended up in pretty
much a stalemate, and this is when genocidal fervor by
the colonists reaches an all time high because they're like,
but we just won this war. Can't we have all
your stuff now, you know? And so all the land
between the Appalachians and the Mississippi were a great, big

(12:15):
old Indian reserve and the king was like, don't go west,
young man. That's my that's my best joke of the week. Unfortunate.

Speaker 3 (12:25):
No, it's great, it's.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, No, it's it's always important to point out when
you make a joke, that's how people know it's funny.
So the colonists are like, what do you fucking mean?
You can't just give all this fucking land to them,
Like we just want You can't.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
Just give all this land to people who are already
on it and have been on it since time immemorial.

Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yeah, like, what are you doing? We are British, I
mean or Americans and so. And to be clear, the
Crown wasn't doing this because they're like anti racist or
some shit. They wanted that fur trade that's already very
lucrative and brings a bunch of money, and they didn't
want to like specifically help the settlers who are starting
to get kind of kind of antsy. Anyway.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
You know what I learned in my like late in
life American history class is that they didn't want to
send troops to deal with defending American settlers. Oh that
makes lushing into this area that they were told not
to go to. They were like, no, we like made
a whole piece and part of that piece involves you

(13:28):
not going there. And if you go there, then we're
going to have to protect you because you're our guys.
And that's that's like a whole use of resources that
we the British Empire don't feel like doing right now.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah, And there's a lot of I'm learning more and
more about this pattern in history where settlers want to
go steal more territory in their settled colonial state, and
the like state itself is a little bit like really
right now, like you can do it later, and the
settlers like, oh, we're doing it, and then the state's like,
all right, I guess we're doing it, not because the

(14:01):
state is the good guy, but like it's just a
weird dynamic anyway, right.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Or like you tacitly allow settlers to go someplace where
they're officially not allowed to be, and then when harm
comes to them in the place that they are not
supposed to be, you're like, we must go and defend
them at all costs. And again, no parallels to anything.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
No, it's a nineteenth century, exclusively.

Speaker 3 (14:24):
Eighteenth and nineteenth century phenomenon. Yeah, history doesn't repeat itself.

Speaker 2 (14:30):
Absolutely not. So the white Americans they throw a little
war you might have heard of. It's called the settlers
want to keep going west to steal more ship, but
the king won't let them. War also sometimes called the
Revolutionary War by certain like war hipsters, but mostly it's
known as the settlers want to keep going west to
steal moreship, but the king won't let them. War.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
I always thought, though it was the Revolutionary War was
over selling it because like in a revolution you have
to overthrow a government, and like, I'm sorry, but like
the government of England was still very much the government
of England after the Revolutionary War.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah, and there were other reasons too. The main thing
I got taught in school, which is true, is this
like big tax thing, But the landgrad was actually a
huge part of it. And also as soon as the
patriots won the war, they said higher taxes than the
crowd ever did.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Yeah, what was the Second War America did?

Speaker 2 (15:30):
So speaking of that far more whiskey rebellion joke, Oh wait,
I didn't get that, No, I didn't. I don't know
as much about the whisky rebellion. I'm like vaguely aware
of it, but not.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
Oh okay, well, now I'm slightly on the spot because
I like pulled out a reference to something that I
only half remember. But my memory of this is that
very soon after the War of Independence, a bunch of
rural guys, like farmers, most of whom were veterans of
the war, were brewing ski because why wouldn't you, right,

(16:04):
and the government wanted to tax it, and they didn't
want to let them, and so George Washington himself, I think,
and the US Army such as it was at the time,
like went and put down the rebellion of these guys
who didn't want the government to tax their whiskey. Because
the unless I'm like completely getting this wrong, and like,

(16:25):
I'm sure nobody will tweet at you if I'm wrong, Yeah,
you shouldn't have gotten back on Twitter. But that basically
as soon as the like you can't tax us war
was completed, that same government turned around and were like,
we're gonna tax you and fought a war for that purpose.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Okay, no, yeah, that makes sense, And yeah I was.
The little I knew about whiskey rebellion is the like
the actual like sort of oral working class was like, wait,
the aristocracy won again. That sucks. Yeah, I don't. I
don't entirely know. During the Revolutionary War, one thing I

(17:03):
do know because I did research on it for this episode.
I sort of knew this anyway, because I love talking
shit on the Revolutionary War. It's like my I totally
earned the name Kiljoy. Far more black and Indigenous people
fought against the Patriots than alongside them. About five thousand
to nine thousand black men became Black Patriots, whereas about

(17:24):
twenty thousand black men escaped their Patriots slavers to join
the British army because they were promised freedom by the king.

Speaker 3 (17:30):
And this is the first deal that only one side
offered in that war. The Americans did not offer an
equivalent deal.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, I think some of the Black patriots were free,
but I think mostly they were free in the first
place or were enslaved the whole time.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Yeah, No, I think it was only like Britain, because
Britain offered like a blanket deal of if you come
fight for us, then you can be free. And they,
like I used to lead tours about the were history tours,
walking tours, and I once referenced this fact in a
tour to a group of school children and like the
mom who is like I'm contributing, like popped up and

(18:07):
went But the British lied because like, the British are the.

Speaker 2 (18:10):
Bad guys, and I was like, no, they didn't, like.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
Black people went to Canada, Like that's I don't know
why you think the British had to be like cartoon villains,
Like they were not lying about that one.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
They lied a lot, but yeah, no, yeah, And then
there was a whole thing where like, I mean, the
ones who moved to England weren't necessarily treated super great,
but they weren't enslaved. So that's fucking sound.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
I don't know about a lot of I don't know
what happened in terms of moving to England, but they
were like really thriving communities of what were called like
black loyalists in Canada.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
Cool the US Declaration of Independence, like sub tweets this
this emancipation gotta get you back off Twitter when it
says that the king had quote excited domestic insurrections among
us and there was actually an earlier draft of the
Declaration of Independence that's more explicit like these motherfuckers I
had to steal our property or whatever.

Speaker 3 (19:01):
You know.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
So and this isn't because the king was good, to
be clear, England just wasn't nearly concerned as concerned about
slavery ensure didn't mind fucking up the economy of the
colonies have kept them in line. One of the other
impacts of the Revolutionary War that's really tragic from my
point of view, is that there's this mighty and really
neat Iroquois confederacy, the Hodnashone, And this is a confederation

(19:27):
of six nations whose democracy influenced everything from the American
Constitution to Karl Marx to modern radicals of all stripes.
And this confederation was hundreds of years old at the
time of the Revolutionary War, and it was split by
the war. Four of the nations sided with the crown
because the king didn't want to steal their land as bad.

(19:48):
Two of the nations sided with the colonists because they
were like closer with the colonists. Basically, all of the
indigenous nations that fought in the Revolutionary War, they weren't
doing it because they're like we love the king, or
like we're patriots, right. They were just fighting for their
own interests, in their own independence as best they saw fit.
But in seventeen eighty three, the patriots win the war

(20:12):
and colonists are like free land and it was bad
and it was a land crab. And you know what
else is run on stuff to the Homestead Act. Yes,
but sponsor of this show, the Homestead Act, go get yourself.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
Really, that's a bad one market sponsorship.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh interesting, Well I already got paid by them to
do strike. Okay, we are brought to you by strikes
and not stealing land. Is that better? I liked it?

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:58):
Okay, all right, well here's the ads only for those things.
And Rebecca, we're not actually going to talk. So this
is when they all rush into Ohio where many of
you are probably listening, but we're not going to talk
about Ohio today.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
Congratulations on the abortion and weed by.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
The way, Oh yeah, fuck yeah, yeah do at the
same time?

Speaker 3 (21:23):
Well no, absolutely, abortion while you smoke a joint, I know,
don't smoke the.

Speaker 2 (21:27):
Joint after Yeah, after smoke the joint, and only after
December seventh, because otherwise we'll be a crime. Why do
I know that data goes I don't live in Ohio
and I don't smoke weed. Whatever, I still think it's
fucking cool.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
We did make that line cooler knowing what day goes
into effect. Thanks.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Yeah, I one of my friends lives in Ohio and
smokes weed, and I was like, holy shit, are you excited?
And then I was like, wait, don't get excited yet,
because obviously they don't smoke weed now, but they will.

Speaker 3 (21:58):
Of course December seventh. They will smoke their first year.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Because we all totally believe in the system of law,
and no one understands that it's just a cudgel to
be used against their enemies. Everyone believes in law. But today,
instead of talking about Ohio, we're going to focused on
the Black Hills. Is the area around an area around
Wyoming and the Dakotas which only took like a generation

(22:22):
or two for the white people to get to from
Ohio and all that the Black Hills here. Been to
the Black Hills, I have not. They're really pretty. I
understand why everyone fought over them.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
I mean, you don't think that that had more to
do with extractive resources. You think it was this, It
was at the scenery. It can't have been the scenery.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Now it's about gold. I'll talk about that later. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Look, I haven't been, but I did watch Deadwood.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
So although there's a lot of fighting before white people
get there, about who gets to live there, so fair
kill people fight.

Speaker 4 (23:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
The Black Hills are an isolated mountain range where Wyoming
in South Dakota meet. It got its name from the
Lakota people, who called it Hissapa or Black Mountains, because
the pines grow so dense that they appear to be
black from a distance. It has always been a sacred
place for the Lakota and for the groups that came
before them. Lots of folks hung out there in various

(23:22):
pre colonial history, and they often fought over it. The
Arakari were there as well as the Cheyenne and the
Crow and some other folks. And then in seventeen seventy six,
while well everyone's paying zenent to someone else, it actually
is completely unrelated thousands of miles away. In seventeen seventy six,
the Lakota basically kick everyone out and take the Black Hills,

(23:44):
which sets up an animosity that is going to come
up a lot later and broadly. The various groups that
are living there are what are called the Great Plains tribes.
Some of them are semi nomadic, some are fully nomadic,
and they rely heavily on hunting. The vast herds of buffet
flow before the introduction of the horse. They relied on

(24:04):
dogs with sledges to hale stuff around. Like an Ari
Kara family would have thirty to forty dogs per family,
which is just imagine being that rich.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
That's such a wonderful number of dogs. I know you
did promise me dogs in this episode.

Speaker 2 (24:19):
This is the dogs. Yeah, And I said there was
gonna be a lot of them, but they weren't going
to be very important of the story because I was like,
there's not that many dogs the sound.

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Final to the story. Well, if you have a nomadic
society and dogs are your your primary pack animal, that's
a those are very important dogs. I will not let
you dismiss these dogs.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
It's true, but there are hundreds of years ago by
the time that we're stuffing talking about.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
Their context it is you're all about the contexts. Are
contextual dogs.

Speaker 2 (24:45):
Right, contextual dogs. Later they are master horsemen and great planes.
Tribes are used as the archetypical Indian in White American culture,
partly because they were really fucking good at fighting US
military and so they were like around to be at
war longer, Like I mean, not everyone's been around, right,

(25:07):
Like one of the other greatest lies that we hear
is that like that it's done. Everyone's subjugated, it's over
two lay for decolonization, all that bullshit.

Speaker 1 (25:16):
Right, But.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
These folks, it's part of why they live on in
the white American imagination and become this like stereotypical reflection
of all indigenous people in North America. So if there's
like a thing that you think of, this probably comes
from the Great Plain Stribes. Most of who we're going
to talk about today are generally called the Sioux, including

(25:40):
by a lot of them, but more historically than presently,
it's an outside name for them and is less in
use today. There are three branches or subculture of what
gets called the Sioux. There's the Lakota, the san Tea
or the Eastern Dakota, and the Yankton or the Western Dakota.
And each of these groups is further divide into various bands.
The names is an exonym that comes from Najibwe word

(26:02):
for little snakes, because it was meant to be mean.
I believe mostly will be talking about Lakota this week,
and so I point that out because like, if you
google a lot of this, you'll have to look for
like sue stuff, you know, white people didn't really start
showing up in the Black Hills until the early eighteen hundreds.

(26:22):
At first, relationships were complicated, but not necessarily super bad
when there's just like a couple of white people around.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
Right.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
By the eighteen twenties, the US is setting one group
against the other and hiring folks to help them with
various raids. And it's not hard to get some of
these groups to fight each other because they their issues
with each other are like all pretty legit, you know,
of course. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:48):
And by the eighteen when like a super powerful, you know,
outside entity comes in and is like making use of that,
of course there's going to be you know, that's going
to be a terear situation.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
Yeah, absolutely, And it like and people are just doing
what they think is best with the information that they
have available to them, right, They're like, oh, well, this
this other group is my main enemy. These fucking white people.
Help me fight them or like vice, you know. Like
by the eighteen forties, folks are like, wait, what the fuck,
We're all like dying of disease. These motherfuckers keep slaughtering

(27:23):
the ever loving shit out of the Buffalo. This sucks,
and resistance start.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
Allying with them never actually works out great.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
No, it really really doesn't, especially making treaties with them.
Not a historically honoring treaty bunch.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
White Americans really really love to make treaties, love to
break treaties, does the United States?

Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, it's like a serial monogamous who loves to cheat.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
Never mind, is it like that, It's like a serial
monogamous who is also a serial killer.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
Yes much, yes, more, better, better. Yeah. I never thought
it'd be like, oh, serial killer better better better. Yeah.
So the Gold Russian Oregon Trail bullshit in the eighteen
forties saw so many settlers headling west. Is really fucking
things up, and folks are moving right through their territory.

(28:19):
There's this eighteen fifty one treaty that, of course the
US immediately broke, and the Oglala band of the Lakota
people was particularly not fucking having it. There's one war leader,
his name's Red Cloud, and in eighteen sixty six he said,
quote the White Chief comes a soldiers to steal the
land that they were like considering selling, comes to steal

(28:42):
before the Indian says yes or no, I will talk
with you, no more, I will go now, and I
will fight you as long as I live. I will
fight you for the last hunting grounds of my people.
Red Cloud. Yeah, he's not fucking around. He killed the
head chief of the Oglala Bulbar for being too friendly
with the invaders. Gottnna do what you gotta do, yep.

(29:05):
So let's talk about how bad the invaders were. This
is gonna be my favorite part. Uh, they're really invading Heck,
for example, you ever heard of a guy named Kit Carson?
Has yes?

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Heard of that guy?

Speaker 2 (29:19):
So he's not involved here. But I'm gonna tell you
why I'm gonna. I need to you to understand him,
to understand the relative morality of some of these invaders.
He's more involved in the Southwest. Uh, particularly, I believe
he's involved in murdering and sexually assaulting Tonay people. Kit
Carson was a Union officer who immediately after the Civil

(29:41):
War went to go join the Indian Wars and got
the nickname Indian Killer, which is a bad name and
if you have it, you should die. He went around
the Southwest and destroyed everyone's food supplies. That was like
how he won his quote unquote wars. He was really
into destroying people's food supplies. He was famous as shit
as like a dime store novel hero. He's like the

(30:02):
face of like America fighting in the Indian Wars or whatever.
The Dney called him long Knives, which is another bad
nickname to have, and he used to play catch with
the sever breast of Indigenous women that he's slaughtered. Jesus Christ,
because American history is a fucking horror movie, you know what.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
Like, I fancy myself a fairly educated person. And as
soon as you started talking about this about Kit Carson specifically,
I was like, well, I don't know a lot about
Kit Carson specifically, but I bet nothing she's gonna tell
me is gonna shock me. I know about the American
genocide of and god fucking damn it, no, that is

(30:46):
actually I mean ges Christ.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Yeah, And any listener knows that I hate being really
explicit about some of this kind of stuff. I take
it very carefully. I think it's worth understanding who these
motherfuckers are.

Speaker 3 (31:04):
There's I mean there there is like a a level
of disregard for human life that needs to be understood
in this situation because you can have you know, but
because body counts don't tell the full story. But something
like that is pretty pretty like demonstrative of the mindset

(31:29):
at work and the just sheer like genocidal fervor at work.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, absolutely and absolutely does not see people as human.
There's a park named after him in California. You can
go to Kit Carson Park. Okay, the reason I'm telling
you about Kit.

Speaker 3 (31:50):
Carson Jesus, Okay, put that on the on the list.
After all the Confederate well not after all the Confederate
monuments are While the Confederate monuments are being melt down,
maybe there's any other human that that things could be
named after a wo Kit Kit sounds like a bullshit
fucking nickname for like a nineteen fifties girl detective, and

(32:11):
like he's I don't know, it's so likely he's trying
to be so non threatening and chill, Like I hate.

Speaker 2 (32:19):
That non threatening chill. Yeah, okay, Kit isn't fuck that guy.
So some of the shit that was happening in the
Black Hills by the settlers in the army that's supporting them,
all the murder and rape and murder rape, including of
an entire camp of Chyenne people, Kit Carson, Kit fucking Carson,

(32:42):
looked at that and said that the settlers who did
that were cowards and dogs because of how evil the
settlers and the Black Hills are.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I mean, are we sure he wasn't just jealous?

Speaker 2 (32:56):
It's completely possible. But it's like that, how fucking that's
if this is the moral compass? Like this is why
I had to explain Kit Carson. It's also worth understanding
Kit Carson because it's worth understanding that the villain from
the Saw movies is the archetypical hero of the Indian
Wars from the American side. I have still not seen

(33:18):
the Saw movies. It's not my style of thing.

Speaker 3 (33:20):
I'm not gonna watch though, And I know you love context,
but I'm not gonna watch the Saw movies for context
for your explanation of Kit Carson no murder. I mean, yeah,
I'm generally given to understand that people don't come out
of those movies, you know, with all their parts.

Speaker 2 (33:39):
Yeah. So Red Cloud and a bunch of other folks
are like, fuck this, We're gonna do a fucking war,
and it gets called Red Cloud's war. It's not really
his war. You can't own a war. Also, it's like
that's like a basically a white imposition to call him
the leader of the war. There's a lot of leaders.

(34:01):
It's also it would also be a lie to claim
it was all equals, right, But it's like a lot
of complicated different groups working together and fighting a very
righteous and beautiful war. I mean, well beautiful whatever. It's
fucking whatever they.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Do what they were, yeah, doing something that needed to
be done. And like, I think there's also something where
you like name a by like naming a war after
the one guy, where the US can kind of pretend
that it's smaller than it is, like, oh, it's just
this guy who has a problem with us. I don't
know what his deal is. And it's like, no, it's
all of these people who you have screwed over in

(34:37):
this just in you know, in this sort of language
defying way, that are now fighting back, and you're just like, oh, well,
it's you're trying to like put it on one person, right.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
Red Cloud got a little upset one day after, you know.

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Right, like if people had called the War of Independence
like and I can't name a single foundation, right, like
Ben Franklin's war, it would have sounded trivial and silly, right,
And you.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Know, and so there are Lakota, Cheyenne and Arapahoe folks
fighting alongside one another, and they're just like fucking the
Americans up in Red Clouds War. But if you want
to go to war, do we Yeah, do we sell? Nope? Nope, nope,

(35:31):
none of that happened. Here's ads and we're back. So
the US Army was protecting something called the Bozeman Trail,
which connected up to the Oregon Trail, and they've just
built a bunch of forts on Crow Territory, and the
Crow are generally allied with the US throughout most of

(35:54):
this because they're sick of the Lakota trying to put
their territory. Captain William J. Fetterman is in charge of
a bunch of these guys. I try really hard not
to be mad at people for their last names, but
Fetterman is the name of a person who puts people
in chains and he's a bad guy.

Speaker 3 (36:11):
Oh yeah, that's that's what that means, I guess, yeah,
or it means featherman. Maybe I'm pretty.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
Sure it's jail guy. I don't know, whatever, I don't know.
You're not actually responsible for your last name, and like me, killjoy,
I mean, who would have picked a name anyway, so.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Charged Unlike you, I didn't pick his name, but it
sounds like hearth.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
Yeah. So he has no experience in the Indian Wars.
This guy Fetterman, and he's entirely contemptious of the quote
unquote savages. At one point he says, give me eighty
men and I can ride through the whole Sux nation.

Speaker 3 (36:48):
I am so excited for this man to get killed
so hard?

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Is that? Am I going to get to see this
man killed so hard? Well, I'll tell you that he
gets exactly eighty or eighty one men, and then he
tries to through the whole six nation. I'll tell you
that much. Does it not work out? So about a
thousand warriors laid in ambush in the hills, four miles
away from the enemy. Fort ten folks volunteer to serve

(37:15):
as bait, evenly split from the various groups involved, including
and introducing one of the coolest motherfuckers in history, Crazy Horse.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
And meanwhile, there's a wink To, which is a two
spirit person who gives advice to Red Cloud about the battle,
saying that in their vision they saw a hundred blue
Coat soldiers in their hands and this prophecy gives the
upcoming battle the name the Battle of the Hundred in

(37:46):
the hands. US sources call it the Fetterman Fight, which is.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Boring, yeah, much much less good name.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Yeah, although it was a little bit like kind of
what we were saying that people say about like Red
Cloud's war, while he got kind of upset and he
went to war. That's kind of what happens with Fetterman.
He's like a little upset, you know. And so the
ten decoys harassed the detachment of eighty one soldiers, which
I believe is Fan and his eighty guys.

Speaker 3 (38:13):
Had ass ten people like that is an incredible thing
to volunteer for.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
They are literally mooning soldiers who are shooting grape shot
from cannons at them.

Speaker 3 (38:25):
Fucking legend. That is so cool. Good for them, and
oh my.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
God, And it's like it's so funny too, right, because
it's like when I first read this, I thought it
was like, oh, no, we set up as if we're
easy to attack. Don't attack us. You know. That's because
that's what I would assume would write.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
I was picturing somebody like running through like, oh no,
I've twisted my ankle, don't chase me.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
But yeah, yeah, no, they were literally mooning them.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
They were like, hey, we're harassing you and try to
get you to follow us so we can kill you.
And they're like, okay, we're gonna follow and kill you.
You know, this couldn't possibly be a trap. Yeah, every
and so the decoys let the soldiers further away from
any support. Every one of the eighty one soldiers died
in the ambush. Cool. The indigenous folks had like very

(39:16):
few guns at this point. They are mostly fighting with
bows and arrows, spears and clubs against muskets. Fetterman himself
died when someone slashed his throat. For years they were like, no,
he shot himself in suicide because he couldn't be killed.
But he had to, you know, he knew he was
gonna die, and like the forensics were just like his

(39:38):
fucking throat was slashed. Like he's not a hero, He's
just a fucking piece of shit who wasn't very smart,
who got himself fucking murdered.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
He really got mad when he saw some butts, Yeah,
and did not at all think perhaps I am being manipulated.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
Yeah, totally. When in doubt of a strained showing you
their butt. They're manipulating you.

Speaker 3 (40:02):
They're trying to get some kind of reaction from you.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Think hard about what that kind of reaction might be. Yeah. Also,
if you ever want to read a what modern bias
looks like, read the Wikipedia account about the Fetterman Fight,
because it was clearly written by someone who sees the
US Army as heroes. And it blows my mind that
in the year of Our Lord twenty twenty three, there

(40:25):
are people who think that the white Americans were justified
in like fucking anything they did during the founding of
this nation.

Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yeah, that's a I I guess I always like think
that I'm like walking around surrounded by people who don't
think like the directors of nineteen fifties Westerns. Yeah, but
I guess I guess that's who's around me, or at
least since who's editing Wikipedia.

Speaker 1 (40:52):
Well.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
And the justification is that a lot of this is
happening on Crow Territory where the rather than Lakota territory.
But I'm like, people are resisting colonization. A bunch of
different indigenous nations are coming together resist colonization and destroy
people who are don't see them as human.

Speaker 3 (41:09):
Yeah, and if the justification involves the fact that this
is on Crow territory, I'm going to need that justification
to be supported by a detailed account of how the
US Army treated the Crow. Yeah, and I'm gonna guess
that that doesn't support that justification.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, during a lot of this, the Crow are the
allies of the US government. Okay, but because of but
I actually I only know about specific Crow scouts. I
actually don't know larger and I'm really not trying to
paint you know, entire groups of people with brushes and.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
This, sure, And I mean I'm just saying, like, yeah,
in the long term, painting the United States is just
at with thet the best interests of the Crow at heart.
Sounds pretty suspect to me.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Absolutely. Anyhow, Red Clouds War, which Red Cloud wasn't in
charge of, just was one of people in charge of.
A ton of badass motherfuckers are up in this, like
Crazy Horse, a guy named Spotted Tail, American Horse. But
several of these badass motherfuckers later become sellout motherfuckers by
most accounts. Unfortunately, it's complicated everywhere always Shortly thereafter, during

(42:20):
the midst of this war, that the Federman fight doesn't
end that war, right, but it is the greatest loss
in the Indian wars in US history up to that point.
But don't worry.

Speaker 3 (42:29):
Rarely can you end a war by killing eighty one
extremely dumb motherfuckers. Yeah, even as satisfying as it may.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Be, Well one, don't worry. Lakota warriors and some other
folks are going to kill an even greater number of
US soldiers fantastic the reasonably near future. But also they're
going to win this war spoiler. Shortly thereafter, the soldiers
get given breech loaders instead of muzzleloaders, and this does

(42:56):
fuck up the tactics of the indigenous folks because one
of their main tactics is to rush before they can reload,
so you only have to suffer one volley, right, And
with breech loaders, they're shooting too fast, and so they
are two different attacks on forts, and both these attacks fail.
So the Indigenous nations go back to doing what their

(43:18):
best at, which is guerrilla attacks. And the US realized
they calculated it would take them twenty thousand soldiers to
put down this group of indigenous more than eighty Yeah,
a little bit more in eighty, so the US sued
for peace. They were like, we can't do that, we
give up, and Red Cloud was like, I'm not going

(43:40):
to fucking meet you unless you give up all, unless
you abandon these three forts. So the US abandoned those forts.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Nice, that's like the concession before he'll even come to
the table.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
Yep, before all you come to the table. So then
again before they come to the table, the warriors went
and burned those forts to the fucking round. Fuck yeah,
And this part is important to our story. The US
government sued for peace in eighteen sixty eight in the
Treaty of eighteen sixty eight. They're really original namers, the
kind of people come up with Fetterman Fight and Red

(44:14):
Cloud War. Are going to call it the Treaty of
eighteen sixty eight. Sometimes this is called the Treaty of
Fort Laramie because it was signed at Fort Laramie.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
That's what they called it on the TV show Deadwood,
where it which is okay, where most of what I
know about the Black Hills unfortunately comes.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
From I didn't watch that, and sometimes I actually try
to watch this stuff. That's like, here's what mostly people
say about the following thing.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (44:38):
On November sixth, eighteen sixty eight, Red Cloud signed this treaty,
and it guaranteed indigenous groups quote, absolute and undisputed use
of the Great Sioux Reservation. No persons shall ever be
permitted to pass, over, settle upon, or reside in territory
described in this article, or without consent of the Indians

(45:01):
passed through the same. No treaty for the secession of
any portion or part of the reservation herein described shall
be of any validity or force unless executed and signed
by at least three fourths of the adult male Indians
occupying or interested in the same. So it's a very
clear treaty. It is a this is yours, it's yours now.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
Yeah, that's unambiguous, really specific and clear. It would be
very obvious if somebody were to break the terms of
that treaty.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Well, unfortunately it's stayed intact ever since. And that's the
four parter good thing in the.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
US keeps its promises, huh, which actually gets into some
of this interesting I'll probably end up talking about more
this more next week, but obviously i'm buying large using
you know, I'm referring to people as indigenous people rather
than like Indians, for example, right, obviously, except when I'm
quoting things.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
There are arguments the American Indian Movement aim which will
be a major subject of next week. There are arguments
that people made at various points where they're like, you
know what, I actually prefer that word. And one of
the reasons that sometimes people preferred that word again, I'm
talking about the nineteen sixties, nineteen seventies, I'm not trying
to make an argument for it now, was specifically around
a lot of their fights were around the legal ees

(46:21):
of these various documents, and they were like, we need
to make it clear that we are the group of
people who sign this document.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Right, are we are who were supposedly granted these right
these concessions and these rights.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
Right?

Speaker 1 (46:37):
But that is y.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
You know, I don't have a I have no interest
in having an opinion on that. It does not matter.
You know, whatever folks decide to go with, that's what
I'm going with, and buy and large and you know,
in the United States, I tend to use indigenous peoples
and then like a lot of people in Canada use
First Nations peoples and you know whatever. So the indigenous
people who sign this condes this treaty. They're also supposed

(47:01):
to be get given clothes, food, education, a sawmill and
a gristmill, a warehouse, a doctor, an instruction in white
man's agriculture and technology. This last part is part of
the US policy to like civilize the indigenous people.

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Right, right, but the forest assimilation right.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
In exchange, the Lakota agree to withdraw opposition to the
construction of the railroad and other roads elsewhere, you know,
and wouldn't lead raids out from their territories against settlers.
And this treaty snuck in just under the wire. By
eighteen seventy one, the US passed a rider to a
bill that said, quote hereafter, no Indian nation or tribe

(47:46):
within the United States shall be acknowledged or recognized as
an independent nation, tribe, or power with whom the United
States may contract by treaty. This was when they were like, no,
you are all fucking ours, right, you know, we do
not respect anyone else to have any I don't like

(48:06):
government very.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
Much, so well, yeah, it's bad. I mean, just I
think based on the conversation we've been having for the
last hour, so I think I'm ready to say the
government is bad.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
Yeah, the America government is not actually overall a force
for good. I hate to you know, people don't get
real mad about that now whatever. So Red Cloud he
signs this, but he and some of the other folks,
they're kind of defeated after this. They like he goes
east in eighteen seventy and he just sees how many
fucking white people there are and he's like, oh fuck,

(48:43):
we're fucked, like we can't and he never again goes
back to war and he mostly starts playing ball with
the invaders, although he's still got some good moments of
resistance in him. And it's complicated. I'm not trying to
be like, well whatever, I can't sit my fucking answer.
Just did this shit. They were the other side of this,
so whatever, you know. Meanwhile, the guy in charge of

(49:07):
the reservation system, as best as I can tell, his
guy named Francis Walker, and he said that the goal
of the reservation system was to reduce quote the wild
beasts to the condition of supplicants for charity Jesus, like,
not even about assimilation. It is about making them no
longer have agency. Yeah, so the Lakota and other flash

(49:34):
I just I don't know.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
I again, I really thought that, like, oh well, I
know this stuff. I know how horrible this was. But
like occasionally somebody will just like say something, not even occasionally,
seems like constantly, you know, people will just fucking say
things like.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
That, yeah yeah, and people in power will say things
like that, yeah right. That's the thing.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
This wasn't like some crank who's like, I don't I
don't think that we should treat people well. This is
like the guy who's in charge of the reservation system Jesus.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
As best as I can tell, I like spent a
while trying to figure out I read the quote and
then try to infer from context and then try to
like google around it a lot because the quote is
so affecting. But it wasn't entirely clear. That was my
best guess as the person's job who said it. But
still they've got this treaty of eighteen sixty eight, and
the Lakota and other folks are like sort of sat

(50:29):
for you know, they're like, Okay, we have the reservation,
we have sovereignty, and we've got the Black Hills. You know,
this is very important to us. But Miriam, do you
ever think about like, what if white people wanted the hills?

Speaker 3 (50:43):
Yeah, I mean white people usually get what they want, right,
that's how that goes.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
Huh. Yeah, They're like, well, why can't we have the
hills even though we just signed this treaty because we
lost a war, even.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Though yeah, even though we literally just said you can
have that and we won't try to take it.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
Right.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
So, six years later, like not a generation later, not
half a generation later. Six years later, enter onto stage
Colonel George Custer.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Well, I am excited for how this ends, but I'm
not excited for what's going to happen. First.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Oh, yeah, he's a dick. In eighteen seventy four, he
leads an expedition into the sovereign territory of the Lakota
to confirm rumors that there's gold, and he's like, Yep,
there's gold. George Custer is such a piece of shit
that a superior officer once said about him. The year prior,

(51:40):
eighteen seventy three, a superior officer said about him that
he was quote a cold blooded, untruthful, and unprincipled man,
universally despised by all the officers of his regiment.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Okay, so why is He'm like, why is he allowed
to be in charge of anything?

Speaker 5 (51:57):
I argue, baby, I just I mean, I love that,
like ninety percent of the people that you've like, of,
like the genocidal white people you've talked about so far,
there's like somebody standing right behind them going like, we
all hate this piece of shit. And it's then stop
giving him guns and people to command, totally, totally, and
we're going to talk about Oh, we'll get to it.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
George Custer, you will be shocked to know is a
huge proponent of the Indigenous people aren't human theory, and
he was the He was the kind of guy who
would say shit like I don't know what the Prime
Minister of Israel says about Palestinian people in the Year
of a Lord twenty twenty three, not that anyone would
draw historical parallels.

Speaker 3 (52:37):
I thought we agreed that history doesn't repeat or rhyme
or or do any of those things that it does.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
No, totally not. So miners everywhere are like, we need
to get the fuck into those hills, Like there's gold there.
I have a god given right to steal all of
the gold and kill everyone who's between me and it,
you know.

Speaker 3 (53:01):
And only logical.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
Yeah, and this is actually one of the only interesting
to me. I don't know, it's like the first time
that settlement happened in the eastern direction, like because it
was like people who had gone gold rushing out west
were like, oh, there's gold in the middle of the
country too. They like swung back into the middle of
the country.

Speaker 3 (53:19):
Ah, that is interesting, Yeah, that is interesting. Don't undersell
your interesting facts.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah. So miners started gathering in towns like wagons are
getting people are like lining up right and ready to pillage.
But the US had at the moment, the US had
troops stationed to keep them out of the hills in
order to keep them honoring the treaty. And the US
was like, well, we should settle this properly. We should

(53:49):
buy all the land. And so they offered five million dollars,
which is one hundred and forty million dollars in today's money,
and the indigenous folk were like fuck no. Sitting bowl
of the hunk, Papa Lakota said, quote, we want to
know white men here. The Black hills belong to me.
If the whites tried to take them, I will fight.

(54:12):
And he said he would not sell even a pinch
of dust to the Americans. Good call. Yeah, crazy horse.
Who if I ever like go revisit this, I'm just
going to a solid crazy horse thing because he seems
really interesting as a person. He was a really quiet
reserved guy. Yeah, totally, and so so crazy Horses. Just

(54:33):
a quiet reserved guy who like wouldn't sing and dance,
like wouldn't participate in all this stuff. He was always
really nice to everyone, but it was just a little
bit withdrawn you know. It's fucking cool. I really like him.
He and so he's generally pretty quiet. But he said
about this quote, one does not sell the land on
which the people walk, and the resistant chiefs promised that

(54:57):
any chief who sold the Black Hills would be killed.
So Red Red Cloud and Spotted Tail are like they're
thinking about it. They're like, oh no, maybe you know.
And then they were like, oh, we don't want to
sell it.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
We've just been given a pressing counteroffer.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah, wherein we don't get murdered. Yeah, And it's like
hard to say exactly my money based on everything else
I read is that like Red Cloud was a little
bit more on the level and Spotted Tail was a
little bit less on the level at this point. But well,
we'll get more into their stuff. So Red Cloud and
Spotted Tail are like, now, we're not fucking signing. And

(55:34):
Crazy Horse had another really good quote. I'm just going
to stick in here because I like it. Quote. We
did not ask you white men to come here. The
Great Spirit gave us this country as a home you
had yours. We did not interfere with you. The Great
Spirit gave us plenty of land to live on the
and buffalo deer and antelope and other game. But you
have come here. You are taking my land from me.
You are killing off our game. So it is hard

(55:55):
for us to live. Now. You tell us to work
for a living, but the Great Spirit didn't make us
to work, but to live by hunting. You white men
can work if you want to. We do not interfere
with you. And again you say, why do you not
become civilized? We do not want your civilization. We would
live as our fathers did and their fathers before them.

(56:17):
Fuck yeah, yeah, no fucking notes, So the indigenous people
wouldn't sell. President Grant was like, fine, I'll withdraw all
my troops that are protecting you from settlers, and I'll
let the settlers do the work, and then he got
ready to wage a war because he had to go
protect those settlers too. You know. As for how that went,

(56:40):
we'll talk about it on Wednesday. Spoiler alert, it does
not go well for Custer personally.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
That was such a cool quote you read a second ago, though,
like I want to go Yeah, I want to go
back to it because it was really fucking cool. Will
you read it again, like it just resonates.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
Yeah, it's a crazy horse quote. We did not ask
you white men to come here. The Great Spirit gave
us this country as a home you had yours. We
did not interfere with you. The Great Spirit gave us
plenty of land to live on in buffalo, deer, antelope,
and other game. But you have come here. You are
taking my land from me. You are killing off our game.
So it is hard for us to live now. You
tell us to work for a living, but the Great

(57:19):
Spirit did not make us to work, but to live
by hunting. You white men can work if you want to.
We do not interfere with you. And again you say,
why do you not become civilized? We do not want
your civilization. We would live as our fathers did and
their fathers before them.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Lock.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
Yeah, yeah, that's really powerful. Thanks for reading it again.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
Yeah, can't wait for Wednesday.

Speaker 3 (57:44):
Can't wait for Custard to die.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, he's gonna die so dead, He's like gonna be
super dead. There's three wounds and they're not sure which
one killed him.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Not to call back to the Pirate episode, but like wimp.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
Black had like twenty yeah totally. Oh it's so funny.
Well that's then the part one of a four parter
because we have so much more to talk about. But first, Miriam, Yeah,
I think you want to.

Speaker 3 (58:17):
Talk about Yeah, if I said anything that was incorrect
or you'd disagree with, I'm not on Twitter, so talk
to Margaret about it.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
So ha ha ha.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
But maybe if you are a person who has some
money of any amount, you could go to Medical Aid
for Palestinians at m AP dot org dot uk and
give them some money. Maybe you did that already at
the beginning of the bombing of Gaza, and maybe you
should do it again. If you did it already, and

(58:52):
if you haven't done it at all, maybe you should
do it.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
I think that's what I would plug to And then
also to say that just read more about how colonization
happens here in the US and how it's an ongoing
project and how it's not over. And then like the
thing that I keep pointing out because it sits in
my head, it's my Roman Empire. It's the thing I
think of every once so fucking week, is that in

(59:19):
the grand scheme of things, the United States has not
actually been a colonized territory for all of that long.
It's been a very long time, and it's been a
very horrible time, full of awful atrocities, but it's not over,
Like there are many places where colonization lasted longer and
then ended.

Speaker 3 (59:38):
You know, Yeah, to to paraphrase Ursula Legwyn, we live
under settler colonialism. Its power seems inescapable, So did the
divine right of kings. All human power can be undone
by human hands.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Yeah. So, have you got anything you want to plug?

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Just could happen here?

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah? Oh, specifically on it could happen here. There's a
really good episode that Mia did about settler colonialism and
what it looks like that I actually listened to while
writing this episode, and I think it's it's worth going back. Oh,
I don't remember the title. It'll be from right around
the week of November, like third or fourth or something

(01:00:26):
like that, and it's really worth listening to. It talks
a lot about is.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
It the cheapest land is bought in Blood?

Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Yeah, go listen to Cheap It's a two part listen
to that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I highly recommend that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
To Murder as well.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
From Martin. All Right, see you all Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
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