June 25, 2024 • 47 mins
A new book claims Bryan Kohberger is not a random spree killer, but rather, he had one target in mind the night he allegedly killed four college students in their home off-campus in Moscow, Idaho.
Author Howard Blum claims investigators believe in a non-targeted attack, the killer would have stopped at the first door inside the house, and it would have been instinctive to go into the first rooms after gaining entry, but that isn't what happened. Investigators point to the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortenson and Bethany Funke, as proof that Kohberger is after a specific target.
Listen as Nancy Grace and her panel discuss the points Howard Blum uncovers during his own investigation of the evidence submitted to a grand jury.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Howard Blum - Author: "When The Night Comes Falling, A Requiem for The Idaho Student Murders;" Instagram: howard_blum_author /X: howardblum
- Brian C. Stewart - Trial Attorney and Managing Partner at Parker & McConkie, https://www.parkerandmcconkie.com
- Dr. Angela Arnold – Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA. Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital
- Chris McDonough – Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective; Host of YouTube channel: “The Interview Room”
- Joseph Scott Morgan – Professor of Forensics: Jacksonville State University, Author, “Blood Beneath My Feet,” and Host: “Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan;” Twitter/X: @JoScottForensic
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, bone chilling Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Details emerge.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Bombshell, a new tell old book reveals a bone chilling
theory on Idaho murder suspect Brian Coberger. Author Howard Bloom
joins Crime Stories for an exclusive interview.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Howard Bloom is joining us right now from Manhattan along
with an all star panel to dissect what we know
and what we are learning from Howard Bloom, you know
I have poured over every document, every search warrant, every return,
every witness statement.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That I could get my mits on.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I have flown to Idaho, to Moscow, Idaho, in the
midst of winter and shruws through the snow to look
at the scene as best as I could to drive
the route I believe, oh yeah, good times freezing, then
got in an suv at night in the pitch dark
(01:15):
at the time I believe Brian Coberger left that crime
scene and started his securitiest route. Oh the word hour's
drive to his apartment at nearby Washington State University of Pullman,
which should have been about an eight minute drive and
somewhere along the way, he turns his cell phone by
con that said, after all that, I still learned so
(01:41):
much from reading Howard Bloom's book The Name when the
Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wow, even the title made me stop.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And in the midst of everything we all do in
regular life, working your children, your cat, your dog, your mom,
I managed to finish this book in one day. I
practically could not put it down. I had it in
two forms. I printed out what I had and had
it on my iPad so I could look at it
(02:22):
no matter where I was. Howard Bloom, it's amazing you
had me sitting in the Costco parking lot in the
heat reading your book, trying to get to the next
chapter before I came back home.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, I appreciate that. It's very kind. You're sitting in
a room as an author, and you wonder if anyone
will read what you write. Meant to hear someone talk
about it so graciously. I'm very flat of it. So
thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, I've never been accused of being kind before, so
I will take that with a box of salt. I
want to get right to it. There's so much in
your book. I had to take copious notes, so I'll
just started at the beginning. It was an amazing intro,
and I was struck by the fact that you start
your book from Coburger's father's point of view, and what
(03:12):
I learned about his father really touched my heart. How
he never got to go to college, and he was
so proud of Brian Coburger and was already referring to
him as doctor Coburger amongst his coworkers. And it reminded
(03:32):
me so much, howard of my father, how he didn't
get we're first generation college and when I got through
law school, in his mind, it was the most amazing
thing ever, so proud. Right Now, here's my question with
that lead up. Almost at the beginning, his father and
(03:56):
his family, Coburger's family suspected him of being the killer.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I found that just.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I was dumbstruck, because you know, when I read about
a crime, I don't immediately think, oh, my son did that.
In fact, I've never thought that. Tell me you're thinking,
and why you say.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
That Michael Koberger makes this trip out to see his son,
to make the ride back with him. You know, this
is a twenty eight year old man and his father
is worried about him. He's making this trip, it's fatiguing,
it's expensive, but he's worried about his son. He's sitting
next to him in this car, shoulder to shoulder. He
(04:40):
knows the police are looking for a white hand. And
one of the first things he realizes when he meets
his son is that his son's mood is volatile. That's
his first sign that Brian is in a state. He
goes out to meet his son in Washington State, and
he doesn't know which Brian and He's going to encounter,
(05:01):
but that's his first sign. And he begins to see
has the moods change and become deeper and more acerbic.
He begins to wonder, oh, my gosh, he begins to
think the unthinkable. He begins to consider that his son
could in fact be a murderer. And all this is
building building in his mind, and he's afraid to go there,
(05:24):
as any father would. But he's getting these clues as
if he were following footsteps in the snow, and the
footsteps are becoming bloodier and bloodier, and he now realizes
could this really be true? And then all of a sudden,
they're driving along in Indiana and they see police sirens
in the back and the car has to pull over,
(05:44):
and he begins to feel what is going to happen next?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, guys with me, Howard Bloom, who has literally written
the book the name of the book, When the Night
Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murder. And
I have learned so much more than we the public,
have learned, more than my sources have told me, by
(06:10):
exhaustive research by Howard Bloom.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You're looking right at him, Howard.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You stated that these aren't your words, that you discovered
this from what Coburger's father stated to other people. What
did he state about immediately suspecting here's his son was
the killer.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
He went out to Idaho Washington State at the beginning
with suspicions. You have to remember that, Michael, this is
not his first trip out there. He even took his
son out on the first trip in August when some
was just registering for school. He had real concerns about
(06:54):
his son. Some was a former heroin attic, his fun
son had psychological problems. At the same time, he wanted
to believe against gold hope that his son was changing,
that his son had reinvented himself. He had come in
a mediocre student, and now he was in an excellent
graduate program for criminology. And Michael wanted to believe that
(07:18):
his son was going to get a PhD. He was
going to be my doctor, Brian Coburger, and yet at
the same time, in the back of his mind trying,
he was thinking the unthinkable. And then things just fall
into place. There was a shooting at just blocks from
where Brian lived. As they were making this trip across country.
(07:43):
A man, a former veteran, went berserk and took hostages
in a student housing and a swat team had to
come in and they killed him. And Michael Colberger, as
he told people who spoke with me, began to feel
that there was something just in this part of the
world that were evil forces. That's how he put it
(08:04):
at work.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And his son was you know what.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I've read a lot and investigated a lot about the
family dynamics of Brian Coburger Listen.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Riyan Coberger's family members are concerned about Brian's behavior prior
to his arrest. Author Howard Bloom says one of Coberger's
sisters confronts their father about the possibility that Brian Coberger
is involved in the Moscow murders, but Michael Coberger apparently
brushes off their concerns. Bloom says Michael Coberger is on
edge when he picks up his son to drive back
from Washington to Pennsylvania, claiming the senior Coburger has seen
(08:39):
the headlines. He knows four students are killed twelve miles
from his son's house, and according to Bloom, Michael Koberger
knows what a troubled son he has.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, you know, joining me an all star panel. In
addition to this incredible author Howard Bloom, Howard, I noticed
that one of the points of contention was about the
route when I was driving that route from the King
Road murder scene back to his apartment in Pullman. At Pullman,
(09:09):
I was wondering why he did that, Why he drove
an hour in the middle of the night. And I'm
sure you know there's no street lights, it's incres pitched black,
and you only ran off the road a couple of
times when a semi would come by.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But he basically did the same thing with his dad.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
The dad flies out, does a quick turnaround, he's exhausted,
he gets in the launcher with his son, and the
sun refuses to go the direct and much shorter route.
Do you think that had anything to do with Coburger
believing he was being followed or monitored.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I think Colberger, being a criminology student, was trying to
take precautions at this point. I don't think he had
any belief or any knowledge that he was being followed. However,
he was trying to be circumspect. He was trying to
be one step smarter than the authority.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Crime stories.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
With Nancy Grace, I want to go out to Chris
McDonough joining us, the director of the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective, host on the Interview Room on YouTube,
who like me, like Howard, has seen the evidence, has
walked the scene, very familiar with the area. Chris mcdonnaugh,
(10:41):
You've had a lot of homicide cases and very often
family members know their son is a killer, but they
will never admit it. And I'm thinking about Coburger's dad,
who knew he had suspicions at the beginning his son
was a quadruple killer.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Yeah, and Nancy, I think what happens is write that
parental you know, tendency kicks in a relationship to they
want to believe it, but they don't necessarily want to
believe it, and so it's kind of a you know,
a tug and pull from a parental physician. However, in
this particular case, it's obvious dad had his radar was
(11:24):
way up and had taken that trip to go out
and pick up his son.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Well, you know, think about it, Chris, and let me
throw this to doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
Angela Arnold MD dot com. Have you ever seen parents
a tiptoe around their child all the time that they're
just waiting for an explosion? And when I was reading
the first chapter in Howard's book, When the Night Comes Falling,
(11:51):
you could feel the tension of the father in the
car with Coburger on this long drive, just waiting for
an explosion. But we got to keep in mind the dad,
Michael Coburger, has spent his whole life trying to prop
up support help Brian Coburger, so he knew it was
(12:14):
like walking through a minefield.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Anything can make him explode.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And when Coburger insisted on this secuitous route, which to
hours and hours longer than I direct route. He went, Okay, fine,
you're the boss. Those are the words the father used
to Coburger.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Well, sure, because Nancy, the last thing he was going
to do was confront this guy. Because I have to
wonder if the father, if the father knew all of this.
Was the father a little bit terrified of what could
set Brian off? And possibly was the father's life in
danger at this point because apparently Brian was agitated at
(12:50):
this time. I wonder if the circuitous route had anything
to do with some sort of OCD kind of disorder
that this guy has.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Bloom.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You also described Brian Koberger his Heroin habit, how he
got into Heroin and when he managed to kick Heroin
after his father turned him in for stealing the sister's
poae and he had to go into some sort of
a rehabit treatment to get his life straight. He kicked
(13:21):
Heroin and decided his body was a temple. And that
is when he became a vegetarian. And I had wondered
where that started, because now he's demanding certain types of
meals behind bars and he's getting them. And I remember
an anecdote where the family couldn't cook with certain pots
and pants because they had once cooked meat.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm working up to it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You reveal that Coburger had two types of plastic surgery
after he loses one hundred pounds.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
What were they Well, Brian Colberger is intent, and this
is the admirable part. He's trying to reinvent himself. He
comes out of this depressing, hard scrabble existence, a family
with two bankruptcies. He's going to hard scrabble high school.
His father is a janitor at the high school. He's
sort of embarrassed by that. He becomes a heroin addict,
(14:19):
and yet, to his credit, he works himself out of this.
He then wants to he's trying to approach girls at
high school. They're ignoring him. He loses the weight and
he still has this sort of flesh that's going over
his midsection, and it's just not the sort of guy
he wants to be. He wants to be a player,
(14:42):
he wants to be one of the cool guys, and
he thinks so he has this surgery. These two surgeries
are covered by insurance, and he reinvents himself. He's in
good shape, as you can see him in the photographs.
He works out he does martial arts, and he still
tries to become the man he wants to be.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The plastic surgeries.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
He has these two plastic surgeries to get over his midsection.
So there's not this sort of envelope.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Powered you're so polite. Okay, you outline it in your book.
He had two surgeries, one of them being an abdominoplasty
and the other you know what they're long. Let me
rephrase list. You described two plastic surgeries that Brian Koberger has.
Both of them, I believe were a were related to
(15:34):
removing flaps of skin left over from the one hundred
plus pound weight loss, a flap of skin and tissue
that went down over his private parts and his lower stomach.
He wanted to get rid of that, and when he
did get rid of that through plastic surgery, he had
(15:55):
a serious buff body. Is the way I take it
from your book is that what happened.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That's exactly what happened. He had this vision that he
would become a new Brian Coburger, and the tragedy is
he almost succeeded. He gets out to Washington State a
new man, and he's trying to live a new life
and yet he's pulled back in to what he always is,
(16:23):
to his aspens, I believe.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Brian Coberger allegedly enters the home and walks past the
first rooms he sees coming into the Moscow, Idaho house,
and goes straight up a narrow staircase and turns directly
into the room of his target, Madison Mogan. Author Howard
Bloom says investigators believe Matti Mogan is the target. Inter
best friend Kaylegan's office is killed because she's in the
room with Mogan.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Did Brian Cooberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new
book suggests family knew more than they ever let on
about their troubled son. Author Howard Bloom tells us more.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Guys joining me is the author Howard Bloom, author of
When the Night Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho
student murders. Howard Bloom has gone where many have not
tediously investigating everything about this case, and the book is
full of revelations. We were just describing how Coberger's own
(17:22):
family thought at the get go, before he was ever
named a suspect or even a POY person of interest,
that he committed the quadruple murders. And in this vein,
can you imagine Coburger's father so proud of his son
getting his PhD, flies out to Washington to drive Coburger.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Back home to the Poconos area for.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Thanksgiving, and he's sitting there for all these hours in
this white Elantra, which of course he knows has been
named in the case, and looking over at his son
who was acting more and more volatile.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
But I want to move on to the next point. Listen.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
In a shocking revelation, author Howard Bloom claims Brian Coberger
is not a random spree killer. He had one target
in mind the night he allegedly killed four college students
in their home off campus in Moscow, Idaho. Bloom says
investigators believe in a non targeted attack, the killer would
have stopped at the first door inside the house. It
would have been instinctive to go into the first rooms
(18:27):
after gaining entry, But that isn't what happened. Investigators point
to the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk,
as proof Coburger is after a specific target.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
You know, you really back your theory up with a
lot of facts and the way they're laid out, it
makes perfect sense. But all along it has been believed,
it has been accepted that killing Goldsolves was the target,
(18:57):
the original target, and the others were just collateral damage.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But you say no, why.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Well, at this point, Haley is not even really living
in the house. She's living up north with her family.
She's going to graduate at the end of the term
in December. And Brian really wouldn't have come in contact
with her necessarily. But he did go to the Mad
Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow, is sort of vegan food
(19:26):
which he liked, which he was here to strictly, and
Maddie was a waitress there, And my belief is that
they encountered one another in the restaurant any words said,
did they have a conversation? I don't think that was necessary.
You know, both the prosecution and the defense have said
(19:47):
for the record that there was no interaction between Brian
Coburger and any of the victims. They did not follow
any of them on social media to their knowledge, never
had any real conversations with them. But Brian was a
man whose life was sort of determined by obsessions, determined
(20:08):
such as being addicted to heroin, such as losing one
hundred pounds, such as deciding to become the best student
after being a mediocre student. And I think once he
saw Maddie for whatever reasons, I mean, she's an attractive,
blonde woman, charming, vivacious, at juliant, he becomes interested in her,
(20:31):
and I think his fixation. He would see the parties
he would be I believe, on the periphery of events,
as parties were hosted at this house on King Road,
a party house, and he would look at that and
he felt it was in some ways a constant rebuke
to the life that he was leading and the life
(20:54):
he wanted to live. He could never be a part
of that. And he decided, in his rage and I believe,
to do something about it. And when he entered the
house that night, and he goes in through the kitchen,
he passes two bedrooms, the bedroom where Xana is with
Ethan and also the bedroom where Villain is. He doesn't stop.
(21:18):
He goes up up a flight, which isn't your natural inclination,
into Maddie's room and he finds her, but he's surprised
to see that Kaylee is there. He had no idea
that as she's sleeping over that she's staying for the weekend.
She'd come to town to show up her new car.
She's just gotten a used range Rover, and she was
(21:38):
very proud of it and excited by it, and she
wanted to share that with her friends. And he discovers
Maddie and then kills her. Cayley fights back, climbs out
of the bed that's pressed against the wall, and he
kills her, and Cayley is collateral damage when he goes downstairs.
(21:59):
The two other victims are collateral damage too.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Joining me is a now famous professor of forensics, Joe
Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
Beneath My Feet on Amazon, a star of a hit
series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But for my purposes,
and most importantly, he is a quote death investigator who
(22:27):
has investigated over one thousand deaths. Joe Scott Morgan, you
and I have gone over the evidence, both on air
and off, trying to determine who was the target. First
of all, doesn't matter who was the target, because they
were all for murdered. But the reason we were looking
(22:48):
for this needle in a haystack is to determine if
we knew the target, we could better figure out who
was the perpetrator. Right, So you're hearing what Howard Bloom
outlines in his chapter fifteen, and I think this may
be dispositive from your point of view. The attacks on
(23:10):
Ghost Solvice versus Mattie Mogan, they are very revealing.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Explain, They're very revealing because of the level of violence
I think that's involved here. You've got these two victims
that are contained in that bedroom up there. And I
got to tell you, based upon what Howard is saying,
the idea that this individual Coberger allegedly knew where to
(23:38):
go in this house because as you well know, you
stood outside that house, Nancy, it's a very confusing layout.
You would have to have specific knowledge of where her
room would be at that particular time. Now, the fact
that there was another occupant in there, maybe that's the
case and he was surprised by that. But it goes
(24:00):
to this idea of I would like to try to
understand if he had scoped this place out for a
particular period of time. Also, this kind of dovetails with
what Howard had said as well, that he saw parties
going on, and that this is kind of a projection.
He understands the life in there. There was a real
(24:21):
chilling video that came up, I don't know about a
year ago. I don't know if you guys recall this
of them the occupants of that house, actually giving internal
views of that in a TikTok video. It made my
skin crawl as a dad and as a college professor,
because the individual that's seeing this can see the layout
(24:41):
inside of that, inside of that structure, which I think
that we can all agree is kind of peculiar, to
say the very least.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, you can't have it both ways, Joscott Morgan or
you Howard Bloom, do I dare to call you on
the carpet after you've literally written the book we can't
have He's full of ray age and goes after these
girls because he can't have them. He can't have the
party life, the popularity, the thing he's been seeking since
(25:09):
he lost that one hundred pounds and had those two
plastic surgeries.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It's not happening for him. You can't have the rage.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Plus, I really like the way you laid this out
and trying to ah, here we go.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Near the beginning of your.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Book, you talk about Brian Coberger delving into quote the
criminal mind and will be a quote scientist exploring why
criminals do what they do. It's been kicked around that
his motive, not that the state needs to prove a motive.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
They don't, but jury's like to hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
So practically speaking, you better hand one over on a
silver platter on top of the Christmas tree.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can't have him.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Full of rage and methodically trying to carry out the
perfect murder and get away with that very calmly and methodically.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So which one is it? What about it? Bloom?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
He was filled with mania, which is not the same
thing as rage, And you're trying to understand make a
rational explanation for completely irrational acts. What Brian Coburger tried
to do that night is to commit I believe the
perfect crime. I believe he wanted to get Maddie, he
wanted to kill her, and then once he gets into
(26:29):
the house, once he finds another girl there, all his
plans fall apart. That's why he leaves the knife sheet behind.
He did think things out, as the police well know.
There wasn't any blood, a trail of blood left by
the perpetrator in the house. All they had was the
touch DNA on the knife sheet. There was no trail
(26:53):
of blood going up the hill or where a car
was parked. To this day, hey, they have not found
the murder weapon. To this day, they have not found
any clothes covered with blood from that house. And the
house was filled with blood. We've all seen the pictures
of the rivulets of blood leaking out from the foundation
of the house. So he did have some planning. New
(27:16):
enough he thought to turn off his phone from two
forty seven to four forty eight for those two hours
when the murders were taking place, and he was getting say.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Howard Bloom, you're the fire hydrant.
You're giving me the information faster than I can take
it in I can't drink from a fire hydrant. You've
got to give it to me teaspoon by teaspoon. And
I'm telling you this book amazing. But Brian C. Stewart
joining me, high profile lawyer joining us who practices in
(27:47):
this jurisdiction as well as in Utah. Brian, I hear
what Howard is saying. I hear what Joe Scott Morgan
is saying, and I've got to agree, I empathize, I
get both the theories. The reality is the state never
has to prove a motive, but your ours want to
(28:10):
hear a motive. So do you believe that in this
case Joseic's trial, which it is, despite the defense dragging
their feet and dragging the judge along with them, he's
going along with it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Do you believe the.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
State has to pick a theory as to motive because
these two were not consistent, or are they rage versus method?
Speaker 9 (28:33):
Well, motive can be an important part of the circumstantial
evidence that leads a jury to understand why a perpetrator
commits a crime, But as you said, it's not necessary
to prove that they committed the crime. Here, you know
where Brian Colberger seems like somebody who's studying criminal justice
and perhaps sees himself as the smartest person in the
(28:56):
room or a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
His motivation may.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
Be to commit the perfect crime, and he would know
that choosing someone in another city who he doesn't have
a relationship with would create a lot of distance between
him and the potential victim.
Speaker 8 (29:11):
That's the first thing that police look for.
Speaker 9 (29:13):
His relationships in a murder, and he might have chosen
Maddie as someone who's young and blonde and beautiful and
might get him a lot of notoriety as he evades justice.
And so if that's his motivation, that could certainly be
the reason why he chose somebody and doesn't have necessarily
(29:35):
rage for Maddie, but has rage for the system, or mania,
as Harold says, to beat the system.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
What happened the Faithful Night of the University of Idaho
for Murderous New Theories revealed in a special episode with
author Howard Bloom.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And joining us.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Howard Bloom has meticulously investigated so many facts of the
case that we didn't know about, including Coburger's past, how
he lost one hundred pounds and had two different plastic
surgeries to remove a flap of skin from his stomach
(30:17):
that went down over his genitals.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
He didn't want that look.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
He lost one hundred pounds on his own, had two
plastic surgeries to reinvent himself as a modern day Adonis.
But according to his friends what I'm reading in When
the Night Comes Falling, his friends didn't like how that
transformation changed his personality. He became I know it all
(30:43):
very aggressive, and that was born out at Washington State University.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
He treated his friends in high school that way. After
he got his new look, he.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Became in his mind the it guy, but somehow he
couldn't pull it off.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What if anything, did.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That have to do with the murders of four beautiful
University Idaho's students.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Okay, you know, to this whole.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Panel, including Howard Bloom joining us, I've got to have
more than what Joe Scott Morgan is telling me that
the attack on Kelly was much more savage than the
attack on Matty Morgan. Why all four of them were
brutally stabbed dead? I need to know who is my target?
(31:36):
And in this book Bloom describes a blood trail.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
He also describes the blood literally leaking.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Down the outside of the house, which I observed when
I went to Idaho. But that said, let's talk about
the blood evidence, Howard Bloom, What about the blood evidence
convinces you to who the real target was?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Well, one point that you've just made about the wounds
on Kayley being so severe, Caylee bought back. She was not.
She was originally in the bed with Maddie. She gets
up from the bed. The room is very narrow. She
tries to get towards the wall, but she's trapped by
(32:22):
Coburger and she's fighting back, and she is not dying easily.
It's a very violent death, and he's enraged that he
even has to. I believe that he had to encounter her.
He did not expect her, and to then find this
woman fighting back like a tiger is putting him in
(32:46):
his mania, is exacerbating the situation. He thought he would
go in there and kill Maddie, who was her presence
rebuked him. I think that's what was going on that
night that house.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Nancy.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
In so there's a couple of things that you know,
from my think thought process in this one is you
know that Evening cobergers he's he's I don't think he's manic, depressive,
or in a manic state in any way, shape or form.
My personal opinion, I think he's very organized. He selected
(33:22):
his target set on purpose. And the reason I feel
that way, there's a couple of things. One is both
Madison and Kayley they're attached at the him from you know,
elementary school they go through, they select the same college.
They have the same kind of birthday parties together. They're
(33:43):
in the exact same house, and that evening, when Coburger
pulls up, if he's our guy, they he's got to
see her car. He's got to know based on the
surveillance that he's been doing, that she potentially could be
there as well. And so'll we have to now ask
our shelves.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Oh wha, No, I disagree.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I disagree because I don't know that Coburger knew about
her new car, Arrange Rover that was new and well,
I mean it's a used vehicle.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
At this point, Kelly is not really living in the house.
She's living at Courd Dealin. She just comes in for
that weekend and he didn't know that. He didn't expect it.
And when he's circling the house, he's I believe he's
not really doing that night three times he comes and goes.
I believe he's not doing surveillance. I believe he's trying
(34:37):
to find the will inside himself to turn off the motor,
to stop the car, to climb down the hill and
commit this crime. Each time he circles the house, it
is not to see what's going on. He doesn't even
really notice the cars, but it's really an internal battle
he's fighting. If he had seen the cars, if you'd
(34:58):
even seen the door Dad delivery, there was a door
Dass delivery at four am, he might have considered it.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Howard Bloom, you were taking our program down a big path.
Now I guess you're joining us from Manhattan that you
have never been down a pig path.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But what a pig path is?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
It is certainly not a direct line or goes in
any organized manner.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
It just goes all over the place.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
But you know what, Howard Bloom, that's the way an
investigation is. When I would sit around a table talking
with investigators and witnesses other das one topic leads to
another topic, leads to another topic, and it's hard to
marshal your evidence, which you did a great job in
your book doing.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
But guys, he brought up another thing. He brought up.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Bloom brought up that coburger circles the house three times.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And yes, I'm going to get.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
To that store clerk who, in my mind, helped crack
this case.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Who you say wants to main anonymous? I don't, Blamer.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Long story short, how did you confirm, Howard Bloom that
a white Elantra. Our car similar to a white Elantra,
circled the King wrote address three times leading up to
the quadruple murder.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
How did you confirm that?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Well, part of it is in court documents and the
public affidavits, but I also spoke with the gas station
attendant who gave the surveillance video to the police too,
So a lot of that is public record. What is
not public record, clearly, is what was in the driver's
mind at that time as he was circling. Something you
(36:44):
have to remember, in all the surveillance videos, there's not
one photograph of the license plate of the car. There's
not one photograph of the driver. You can't see who
it is holding the steering wheel. The FBI has tried
everything to try to pully a picture from inside the
car of who was driving that night, and they couldn't.
(37:06):
So Colburger I believe was the man in that in
that honde a Lantra, and he was trying to find
the will to cross over into the man who was
thinking about this horrific crime, to becoming the sort of
man who could commit it. And it was a difficult,
difficult journey he was taking internally that.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Night families of the slain Idaho four victims await justice
as a judge sets a date for trial.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and that judge, many argue, is cow telling to
the defense. When are these families going to get justice?
That's a whole other can of worms with me. Howard Bloom,
the author of an incredible new book, When the Night
Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders. Okay,
all hands on deck to analyze what Howard Blome was
(37:56):
telling us. Now, Howard Bloom, you crossed over into the
gas station video, which is later when I believe Coburger.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Is leaving the scene.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I only to go back to you stating in your
book that you believe Coburger a white Elantra circles the
crime scene three times that we know of before the
murders occur. Now, not the gas station video you are
telling me that's caught on video?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
As you described at the end near the end of
chapter twenty, a guy who owns a rental complex, I
think three apartments a rental complex nearby, and he's got
a camera on top of the rental complex looking down.
Did his video catch the launcher circling three times before
(38:53):
the murders.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yes, and in this video too, they still can't make
out a license plate, still can't make out in the
darkness the driver, but they are able to make out
the car. When the FBI in Quantico is trying to
figure out from these videos what kind of car is,
they try three different times until they finally come up
with a Hondai Elanka from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen.
(39:17):
At first they thought it was just twenty eleven to
twenty thirteen. And that's one of the reasons why Brian
Colberger takes so long to find him, because they were
the authorities in Washington State were really looking for the
wrong car.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace just got Morgan and everybody
jump in. I'm going to circle back to you, Brian
Stewart about Mensrea about intent.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Is it even needed?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Do we need explicit intent or is it implicit by
the number of the killings that we have murder ones,
of course we do, But I want to talk to
you about the legal theory before that, Joe Scott Morgan.
You hear Howard Bloom describing three times he circled that
we know of, and it's caught.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I believe on the top of that rental facility.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
There's a camera up on the roofs and I looked everywhere.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
When I was out there, Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I went very slowly, and it was slippery and icy,
and I fell more than once. I looked all the
way up and down the street for surveillance videos.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
It's very narrow. I've told you this story.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I could sand on one side of the street, look
into the kitchen window across the street and tell you
what kind of liquid soap they had sitting on their
sink at the kitchen window.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's that close.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I did not see the overhead surveillance camera on that rental.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's on the roof. It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Now he was talking about the FBI tried everything to
enhance the tag and the driver.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
How what do they do doing ants?
Speaker 8 (41:09):
They're washing this thing through various programs that they have Nancy,
in order to try to tighten down the image because
it's I'm sure that it's very granulated, particularly given the
nighttime status of this, where you're not going to be
able to pick up you know, without some kind of
light enhancement like an infrared or something like this, that'll
(41:30):
be able to give you finer detail. So it's going
to be greatly compromised. And look, you know, you have
to think about the house itself. This house is kind
of shaded in darkness from the rear. You're not going
to see a lot there. There's not a lot. It's
not like being in a huge city where you've got
street lights that are all over the place that'll be
illuminating this environment. So it's going to be a tough
(41:53):
ask if you're thinking about attempting to get an image
that's that's capturable so that they can do what they
need to do in order to identify this individual.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Okay, Joe Scott, just please stop. You know what I
can see.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
I can see a tiny little crater on the moon,
but I can't get the tag number.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Or the visage of Coburger's face.
Speaker 8 (42:18):
Why. Because these houses don't have the Hubble telescope on them.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Nobody likes a smart alec or I know what all,
Joe Scott, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You're right.
Speaker 8 (42:27):
The cameras that you're talking about, they're not the highest
of quality. I mean, look, I mean he are turned
out every single day. They're in shops all over the place.
It doesn't mean that it's going to be a great quality.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Did Brian Coberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new
book suggests family knew more than they ever let on
about their troubled son.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Howard Bloom.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
His book is so talk full of evidence and facts
supporting what many of us have been thinking and pondering.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
So much more. When the night comes.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Falling my Howard to Bloom, Howard, we were just talking
to Joe Scott Morgan about why the FBI could not
enhance that video.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Better than it did? I get it? But I heard
you saying something in the background. What was that?
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Well, not only couldn't they enhance the video, the FBI
has this program that they developed really for anti terrorism activities,
and they tried three different times to analyze the car,
and they got three different years. Originally they had the
car was not a Hondai, a Lantra. They made a
Nissan CenTra, and then finally there was a twenty eleven,
(43:40):
and then it's twenty thirteen, and then they finally play
at the end said twenty eleven to twenty fifteen. I
can assure you the FBI's fumblings will come up in court.
I'm sure your fins will raise this and try to
impugne the identification of the car.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute.
The FBI fumbling. I don't see them fumbling here. What
do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Well, fumbling in the sense that their technology was just
not up to snuff and they gave declarations. The first
original be on the lookout notice was not for a
twenty to fifteen HONDEI Alantra, It was for a twenty
eleven honde Alandra.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Hold On, Howard Bloom, you mentioned a detail, and I'm
not sure if you thought I was just gonna ignore
it or didn't catch it, but you said the FBI
was trying to enhance They tried it three times, I
believe you said. But are you referring to the type
(44:42):
of video surveillance that was ultimately introduced in the Kyle
Rittenhouse case, where we had satellite surveillance from nearly nine
thousand feet in the air to figure out what really
happened and there was video, did the FBI go to
(45:06):
the extent of grabbing SAT video?
Speaker 4 (45:09):
So this was much more rudimentary. What they had was
the surveillance photograph, and they tried to enhance it. These
were grainy photographs and they thought they run them through
this machine, this process, this computer program that was developed
at vast expense by the Department of Defense, Defense and
Homeland Security, originally for terrorism activities, and they thought they
(45:32):
could get the identity of the car, and then they
passed it out in their original be on the lookout
at the Moscow police sent nationwide for a twenty eleven
to twenty thirteen Conde a Lantra that was a mistake.
That wasn't the year of the car they ultimately decided
was Coburg.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Guys, we are speaking to an all star panel, including
author Howard Bloom, who has just finished book When the
Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.
To my panel, I want to thank you for kindly
agreeing to join us again, because we've barely scratched the
(46:14):
surface of the evidence, how it was accumulated and what
does it mean with Howard Bloom, for instance, have we
found a receipt for the outfit Brian Coburger purchased in
war during the murders.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
There's so much more. Please join us.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
With the same all star panel, including Howard Bloom, as we,
like the investigators comb through the coburger evidence. Thank you
to our guests for being with us tonight and illuminating
the mysterious facts surrounding a quadruple murder of four beautiful students.
(47:00):
Thank you for joining us as we search for the
truth that will hopefully result in a true verdict.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, bone chilling Brian Coburger.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Details emerge.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Bombshell, a new tell old book reveals a bone chilling
theory on Idaho murder suspect Brian Coberger. Author Howard Bloom
joins Crime Stories for an exclusive interview.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Howard Bloom is joining us right now from Manhattan along
with an all star panel to dissect what we know
and what we are learning from Howard Bloom, you know
I have poured over every document, every search warrant, every return,
every witness statement.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
That I could get my mits on.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I have flown to Idaho, to Moscow, Idaho, in the
midst of winter and shruws through the snow to look
at the scene as best as I could to drive
the route I believe, oh yeah, good times freezing, then
got in an suv at night in the pitch dark
(01:15):
at the time I believe Brian Coberger left that crime
scene and started his securitiest route. Oh the word hour's
drive to his apartment at nearby Washington State University of Pullman,
which should have been about an eight minute drive and
somewhere along the way, he turns his cell phone by
con that said, after all that, I still learned so
(01:41):
much from reading Howard Bloom's book The Name when the
Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
Wow, even the title made me stop.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
And in the midst of everything we all do in
regular life, working your children, your cat, your dog, your mom,
I managed to finish this book in one day. I
practically could not put it down. I had it in
two forms. I printed out what I had and had
it on my iPad so I could look at it
(02:22):
no matter where I was. Howard Bloom, it's amazing you
had me sitting in the Costco parking lot in the
heat reading your book, trying to get to the next
chapter before I came back home.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Well, I appreciate that. It's very kind. You're sitting in
a room as an author, and you wonder if anyone
will read what you write. Meant to hear someone talk
about it so graciously. I'm very flat of it. So
thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, I've never been accused of being kind before, so
I will take that with a box of salt. I
want to get right to it. There's so much in
your book. I had to take copious notes, so I'll
just started at the beginning. It was an amazing intro,
and I was struck by the fact that you start
your book from Coburger's father's point of view, and what
(03:12):
I learned about his father really touched my heart. How
he never got to go to college, and he was
so proud of Brian Coburger and was already referring to
him as doctor Coburger amongst his coworkers. And it reminded
(03:32):
me so much, howard of my father, how he didn't
get we're first generation college and when I got through
law school, in his mind, it was the most amazing
thing ever, so proud. Right Now, here's my question with
that lead up. Almost at the beginning, his father and
(03:56):
his family, Coburger's family suspected him of being the killer.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
I found that just.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
I was dumbstruck, because you know, when I read about
a crime, I don't immediately think, oh, my son did that.
In fact, I've never thought that. Tell me you're thinking,
and why you say.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
That Michael Koberger makes this trip out to see his son,
to make the ride back with him. You know, this
is a twenty eight year old man and his father
is worried about him. He's making this trip, it's fatiguing,
it's expensive, but he's worried about his son. He's sitting
next to him in this car, shoulder to shoulder. He
(04:40):
knows the police are looking for a white hand. And
one of the first things he realizes when he meets
his son is that his son's mood is volatile. That's
his first sign that Brian is in a state. He
goes out to meet his son in Washington State, and
he doesn't know which Brian and He's going to encounter,
(05:01):
but that's his first sign. And he begins to see
has the moods change and become deeper and more acerbic.
He begins to wonder, oh, my gosh, he begins to
think the unthinkable. He begins to consider that his son
could in fact be a murderer. And all this is
building building in his mind, and he's afraid to go there,
(05:24):
as any father would. But he's getting these clues as
if he were following footsteps in the snow, and the
footsteps are becoming bloodier and bloodier, and he now realizes
could this really be true? And then all of a sudden,
they're driving along in Indiana and they see police sirens
in the back and the car has to pull over,
(05:44):
and he begins to feel what is going to happen next?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
Well, guys with me, Howard Bloom, who has literally written
the book the name of the book, When the Night
Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murder. And
I have learned so much more than we the public,
have learned, more than my sources have told me, by
(06:10):
exhaustive research by Howard Bloom.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
You're looking right at him, Howard.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
You stated that these aren't your words, that you discovered
this from what Coburger's father stated to other people. What
did he state about immediately suspecting here's his son was
the killer.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
He went out to Idaho Washington State at the beginning
with suspicions. You have to remember that, Michael, this is
not his first trip out there. He even took his
son out on the first trip in August when some
was just registering for school. He had real concerns about
(06:54):
his son. Some was a former heroin attic, his fun
son had psychological problems. At the same time, he wanted
to believe against gold hope that his son was changing,
that his son had reinvented himself. He had come in
a mediocre student, and now he was in an excellent
graduate program for criminology. And Michael wanted to believe that
(07:18):
his son was going to get a PhD. He was
going to be my doctor, Brian Coburger, and yet at
the same time, in the back of his mind trying,
he was thinking the unthinkable. And then things just fall
into place. There was a shooting at just blocks from
where Brian lived. As they were making this trip across country.
(07:43):
A man, a former veteran, went berserk and took hostages
in a student housing and a swat team had to
come in and they killed him. And Michael Colberger, as
he told people who spoke with me, began to feel
that there was something just in this part of the
world that were evil forces. That's how he put it
(08:04):
at work.
Speaker 2 (08:05):
And his son was you know what.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
I've read a lot and investigated a lot about the
family dynamics of Brian Coburger Listen.
Speaker 5 (08:16):
Riyan Coberger's family members are concerned about Brian's behavior prior
to his arrest. Author Howard Bloom says one of Coberger's
sisters confronts their father about the possibility that Brian Coberger
is involved in the Moscow murders, but Michael Coberger apparently
brushes off their concerns. Bloom says Michael Coberger is on
edge when he picks up his son to drive back
from Washington to Pennsylvania, claiming the senior Coburger has seen
(08:39):
the headlines. He knows four students are killed twelve miles
from his son's house, and according to Bloom, Michael Koberger
knows what a troubled son he has.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, you know, joining me an all star panel. In
addition to this incredible author Howard Bloom, Howard, I noticed
that one of the points of contention was about the
route when I was driving that route from the King
Road murder scene back to his apartment in Pullman. At Pullman,
(09:09):
I was wondering why he did that, Why he drove
an hour in the middle of the night. And I'm
sure you know there's no street lights, it's incres pitched black,
and you only ran off the road a couple of
times when a semi would come by.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
But he basically did the same thing with his dad.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
The dad flies out, does a quick turnaround, he's exhausted,
he gets in the launcher with his son, and the
sun refuses to go the direct and much shorter route.
Do you think that had anything to do with Coburger
believing he was being followed or monitored.
Speaker 4 (09:47):
I think Colberger, being a criminology student, was trying to
take precautions at this point. I don't think he had
any belief or any knowledge that he was being followed. However,
he was trying to be circumspect. He was trying to
be one step smarter than the authority.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Crime stories.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
With Nancy Grace, I want to go out to Chris
McDonough joining us, the director of the Cold Case Foundation,
former homicide detective, host on the Interview Room on YouTube,
who like me, like Howard, has seen the evidence, has
walked the scene, very familiar with the area. Chris mcdonnaugh,
(10:41):
You've had a lot of homicide cases and very often
family members know their son is a killer, but they
will never admit it. And I'm thinking about Coburger's dad,
who knew he had suspicions at the beginning his son
was a quadruple killer.
Speaker 6 (11:00):
Yeah, and Nancy, I think what happens is write that
parental you know, tendency kicks in a relationship to they
want to believe it, but they don't necessarily want to
believe it, and so it's kind of a you know,
a tug and pull from a parental physician. However, in
this particular case, it's obvious dad had his radar was
(11:24):
way up and had taken that trip to go out
and pick up his son.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Well, you know, think about it, Chris, and let me
throw this to doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrists joining us
Angela Arnold MD dot com. Have you ever seen parents
a tiptoe around their child all the time that they're
just waiting for an explosion? And when I was reading
the first chapter in Howard's book, When the Night Comes Falling,
(11:51):
you could feel the tension of the father in the
car with Coburger on this long drive, just waiting for
an explosion. But we got to keep in mind the dad,
Michael Coburger, has spent his whole life trying to prop
up support help Brian Coburger, so he knew it was
(12:14):
like walking through a minefield.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Anything can make him explode.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And when Coburger insisted on this secuitous route, which to
hours and hours longer than I direct route. He went, Okay, fine,
you're the boss. Those are the words the father used
to Coburger.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Well, sure, because Nancy, the last thing he was going
to do was confront this guy. Because I have to
wonder if the father, if the father knew all of this.
Was the father a little bit terrified of what could
set Brian off? And possibly was the father's life in
danger at this point because apparently Brian was agitated at
(12:50):
this time. I wonder if the circuitous route had anything
to do with some sort of OCD kind of disorder
that this guy has.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Bloom.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
You also described Brian Koberger his Heroin habit, how he
got into Heroin and when he managed to kick Heroin
after his father turned him in for stealing the sister's
poae and he had to go into some sort of
a rehabit treatment to get his life straight. He kicked
(13:21):
Heroin and decided his body was a temple. And that
is when he became a vegetarian. And I had wondered
where that started, because now he's demanding certain types of
meals behind bars and he's getting them. And I remember
an anecdote where the family couldn't cook with certain pots
and pants because they had once cooked meat.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
I'm working up to it.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You reveal that Coburger had two types of plastic surgery
after he loses one hundred pounds.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
What were they Well, Brian Colberger is intent, and this
is the admirable part. He's trying to reinvent himself. He
comes out of this depressing, hard scrabble existence, a family
with two bankruptcies. He's going to hard scrabble high school.
His father is a janitor at the high school. He's
sort of embarrassed by that. He becomes a heroin addict,
(14:19):
and yet, to his credit, he works himself out of this.
He then wants to he's trying to approach girls at
high school. They're ignoring him. He loses the weight and
he still has this sort of flesh that's going over
his midsection, and it's just not the sort of guy
he wants to be. He wants to be a player,
(14:42):
he wants to be one of the cool guys, and
he thinks so he has this surgery. These two surgeries
are covered by insurance, and he reinvents himself. He's in
good shape, as you can see him in the photographs.
He works out he does martial arts, and he still
tries to become the man he wants to be.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
The plastic surgeries.
Speaker 4 (15:04):
He has these two plastic surgeries to get over his midsection.
So there's not this sort of envelope.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Powered you're so polite. Okay, you outline it in your book.
He had two surgeries, one of them being an abdominoplasty
and the other you know what they're long. Let me
rephrase list. You described two plastic surgeries that Brian Koberger has.
Both of them, I believe were a were related to
(15:34):
removing flaps of skin left over from the one hundred
plus pound weight loss, a flap of skin and tissue
that went down over his private parts and his lower stomach.
He wanted to get rid of that, and when he
did get rid of that through plastic surgery, he had
(15:55):
a serious buff body. Is the way I take it
from your book is that what happened.
Speaker 4 (16:01):
That's exactly what happened. He had this vision that he
would become a new Brian Coburger, and the tragedy is
he almost succeeded. He gets out to Washington State a
new man, and he's trying to live a new life
and yet he's pulled back in to what he always is,
(16:23):
to his aspens, I believe.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Brian Coberger allegedly enters the home and walks past the
first rooms he sees coming into the Moscow, Idaho house,
and goes straight up a narrow staircase and turns directly
into the room of his target, Madison Mogan. Author Howard
Bloom says investigators believe Matti Mogan is the target. Inter
best friend Kaylegan's office is killed because she's in the
room with Mogan.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
Did Brian Cooberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new
book suggests family knew more than they ever let on
about their troubled son. Author Howard Bloom tells us more.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Guys joining me is the author Howard Bloom, author of
When the Night Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho
student murders. Howard Bloom has gone where many have not
tediously investigating everything about this case, and the book is
full of revelations. We were just describing how Coberger's own
(17:22):
family thought at the get go, before he was ever
named a suspect or even a POY person of interest,
that he committed the quadruple murders. And in this vein,
can you imagine Coburger's father so proud of his son
getting his PhD, flies out to Washington to drive Coburger.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
Back home to the Poconos area for.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Thanksgiving, and he's sitting there for all these hours in
this white Elantra, which of course he knows has been
named in the case, and looking over at his son
who was acting more and more volatile.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
But I want to move on to the next point. Listen.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
In a shocking revelation, author Howard Bloom claims Brian Coberger
is not a random spree killer. He had one target
in mind the night he allegedly killed four college students
in their home off campus in Moscow, Idaho. Bloom says
investigators believe in a non targeted attack, the killer would
have stopped at the first door inside the house. It
would have been instinctive to go into the first rooms
(18:27):
after gaining entry, But that isn't what happened. Investigators point
to the two surviving roommates, Dylan Mortensen and Bethany Funk,
as proof Coburger is after a specific target.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
You know, you really back your theory up with a
lot of facts and the way they're laid out, it
makes perfect sense. But all along it has been believed,
it has been accepted that killing Goldsolves was the target,
(18:57):
the original target, and the others were just collateral damage.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
But you say no, why.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Well, at this point, Haley is not even really living
in the house. She's living up north with her family.
She's going to graduate at the end of the term
in December. And Brian really wouldn't have come in contact
with her necessarily. But he did go to the Mad
Greek restaurant in downtown Moscow, is sort of vegan food
(19:26):
which he liked, which he was here to strictly, and
Maddie was a waitress there, And my belief is that
they encountered one another in the restaurant any words said,
did they have a conversation? I don't think that was necessary.
You know, both the prosecution and the defense have said
(19:47):
for the record that there was no interaction between Brian
Coburger and any of the victims. They did not follow
any of them on social media to their knowledge, never
had any real conversations with them. But Brian was a
man whose life was sort of determined by obsessions, determined
(20:08):
such as being addicted to heroin, such as losing one
hundred pounds, such as deciding to become the best student
after being a mediocre student. And I think once he
saw Maddie for whatever reasons, I mean, she's an attractive,
blonde woman, charming, vivacious, at juliant, he becomes interested in her,
(20:31):
and I think his fixation. He would see the parties
he would be I believe, on the periphery of events,
as parties were hosted at this house on King Road,
a party house, and he would look at that and
he felt it was in some ways a constant rebuke
to the life that he was leading and the life
(20:54):
he wanted to live. He could never be a part
of that. And he decided, in his rage and I believe,
to do something about it. And when he entered the
house that night, and he goes in through the kitchen,
he passes two bedrooms, the bedroom where Xana is with
Ethan and also the bedroom where Villain is. He doesn't stop.
(21:18):
He goes up up a flight, which isn't your natural inclination,
into Maddie's room and he finds her, but he's surprised
to see that Kaylee is there. He had no idea
that as she's sleeping over that she's staying for the weekend.
She'd come to town to show up her new car.
She's just gotten a used range Rover, and she was
(21:38):
very proud of it and excited by it, and she
wanted to share that with her friends. And he discovers
Maddie and then kills her. Cayley fights back, climbs out
of the bed that's pressed against the wall, and he
kills her, and Cayley is collateral damage when he goes downstairs.
(21:59):
The two other victims are collateral damage too.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Joining me is a now famous professor of forensics, Joe
Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood
Beneath My Feet on Amazon, a star of a hit
series Body Bags with Joe Scott Morgan. But for my purposes,
and most importantly, he is a quote death investigator who
(22:27):
has investigated over one thousand deaths. Joe Scott Morgan, you
and I have gone over the evidence, both on air
and off, trying to determine who was the target. First
of all, doesn't matter who was the target, because they
were all for murdered. But the reason we were looking
(22:48):
for this needle in a haystack is to determine if
we knew the target, we could better figure out who
was the perpetrator. Right, So you're hearing what Howard Bloom
outlines in his chapter fifteen, and I think this may
be dispositive from your point of view. The attacks on
(23:10):
Ghost Solvice versus Mattie Mogan, they are very revealing.
Speaker 8 (23:17):
Explain, They're very revealing because of the level of violence
I think that's involved here. You've got these two victims
that are contained in that bedroom up there. And I
got to tell you, based upon what Howard is saying,
the idea that this individual Coberger allegedly knew where to
(23:38):
go in this house because as you well know, you
stood outside that house, Nancy, it's a very confusing layout.
You would have to have specific knowledge of where her
room would be at that particular time. Now, the fact
that there was another occupant in there, maybe that's the
case and he was surprised by that. But it goes
(24:00):
to this idea of I would like to try to
understand if he had scoped this place out for a
particular period of time. Also, this kind of dovetails with
what Howard had said as well, that he saw parties
going on, and that this is kind of a projection.
He understands the life in there. There was a real
(24:21):
chilling video that came up, I don't know about a
year ago. I don't know if you guys recall this
of them the occupants of that house, actually giving internal
views of that in a TikTok video. It made my
skin crawl as a dad and as a college professor,
because the individual that's seeing this can see the layout
(24:41):
inside of that, inside of that structure, which I think
that we can all agree is kind of peculiar, to
say the very least.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Okay, you can't have it both ways, Joscott Morgan or
you Howard Bloom, do I dare to call you on
the carpet after you've literally written the book we can't
have He's full of ray age and goes after these
girls because he can't have them. He can't have the
party life, the popularity, the thing he's been seeking since
(25:09):
he lost that one hundred pounds and had those two
plastic surgeries.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
It's not happening for him. You can't have the rage.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
Plus, I really like the way you laid this out
and trying to ah, here we go.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Near the beginning of your.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Book, you talk about Brian Coberger delving into quote the
criminal mind and will be a quote scientist exploring why
criminals do what they do. It's been kicked around that
his motive, not that the state needs to prove a motive.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
They don't, but jury's like to hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
So practically speaking, you better hand one over on a
silver platter on top of the Christmas tree.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
You can't have him.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Full of rage and methodically trying to carry out the
perfect murder and get away with that very calmly and methodically.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So which one is it? What about it? Bloom?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
He was filled with mania, which is not the same
thing as rage, And you're trying to understand make a
rational explanation for completely irrational acts. What Brian Coburger tried
to do that night is to commit I believe the
perfect crime. I believe he wanted to get Maddie, he
wanted to kill her, and then once he gets into
(26:29):
the house, once he finds another girl there, all his
plans fall apart. That's why he leaves the knife sheet behind.
He did think things out, as the police well know.
There wasn't any blood, a trail of blood left by
the perpetrator in the house. All they had was the
touch DNA on the knife sheet. There was no trail
(26:53):
of blood going up the hill or where a car
was parked. To this day, hey, they have not found
the murder weapon. To this day, they have not found
any clothes covered with blood from that house. And the
house was filled with blood. We've all seen the pictures
of the rivulets of blood leaking out from the foundation
of the house. So he did have some planning. New
(27:16):
enough he thought to turn off his phone from two
forty seven to four forty eight for those two hours
when the murders were taking place, and he was getting say.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, Howard Bloom, you're the fire hydrant.
You're giving me the information faster than I can take
it in I can't drink from a fire hydrant. You've
got to give it to me teaspoon by teaspoon. And
I'm telling you this book amazing. But Brian C. Stewart
joining me, high profile lawyer joining us who practices in
(27:47):
this jurisdiction as well as in Utah. Brian, I hear
what Howard is saying. I hear what Joe Scott Morgan
is saying, and I've got to agree, I empathize, I
get both the theories. The reality is the state never
has to prove a motive, but your ours want to
(28:10):
hear a motive. So do you believe that in this
case Joseic's trial, which it is, despite the defense dragging
their feet and dragging the judge along with them, he's
going along with it.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
Do you believe the.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
State has to pick a theory as to motive because
these two were not consistent, or are they rage versus method?
Speaker 9 (28:33):
Well, motive can be an important part of the circumstantial
evidence that leads a jury to understand why a perpetrator
commits a crime, But as you said, it's not necessary
to prove that they committed the crime. Here, you know
where Brian Colberger seems like somebody who's studying criminal justice
and perhaps sees himself as the smartest person in the
(28:56):
room or a narcissist.
Speaker 3 (28:58):
His motivation may.
Speaker 9 (28:59):
Be to commit the perfect crime, and he would know
that choosing someone in another city who he doesn't have
a relationship with would create a lot of distance between
him and the potential victim.
Speaker 8 (29:11):
That's the first thing that police look for.
Speaker 9 (29:13):
His relationships in a murder, and he might have chosen
Maddie as someone who's young and blonde and beautiful and
might get him a lot of notoriety as he evades justice.
And so if that's his motivation, that could certainly be
the reason why he chose somebody and doesn't have necessarily
(29:35):
rage for Maddie, but has rage for the system, or mania,
as Harold says, to beat the system.
Speaker 3 (29:44):
What happened the Faithful Night of the University of Idaho
for Murderous New Theories revealed in a special episode with
author Howard Bloom.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And joining us.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Howard Bloom has meticulously investigated so many facts of the
case that we didn't know about, including Coburger's past, how
he lost one hundred pounds and had two different plastic
surgeries to remove a flap of skin from his stomach
(30:17):
that went down over his genitals.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
He didn't want that look.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
He lost one hundred pounds on his own, had two
plastic surgeries to reinvent himself as a modern day Adonis.
But according to his friends what I'm reading in When
the Night Comes Falling, his friends didn't like how that
transformation changed his personality. He became I know it all
(30:43):
very aggressive, and that was born out at Washington State University.
Speaker 2 (30:50):
He treated his friends in high school that way. After
he got his new look, he.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Became in his mind the it guy, but somehow he
couldn't pull it off.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What if anything, did.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
That have to do with the murders of four beautiful
University Idaho's students.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Okay, you know, to this whole.
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Panel, including Howard Bloom joining us, I've got to have
more than what Joe Scott Morgan is telling me that
the attack on Kelly was much more savage than the
attack on Matty Morgan. Why all four of them were
brutally stabbed dead? I need to know who is my target?
(31:36):
And in this book Bloom describes a blood trail.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
He also describes the blood literally leaking.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Down the outside of the house, which I observed when
I went to Idaho. But that said, let's talk about
the blood evidence, Howard Bloom, What about the blood evidence
convinces you to who the real target was?
Speaker 4 (32:02):
Well, one point that you've just made about the wounds
on Kayley being so severe, Caylee bought back. She was not.
She was originally in the bed with Maddie. She gets
up from the bed. The room is very narrow. She
tries to get towards the wall, but she's trapped by
(32:22):
Coburger and she's fighting back, and she is not dying easily.
It's a very violent death, and he's enraged that he
even has to. I believe that he had to encounter her.
He did not expect her, and to then find this
woman fighting back like a tiger is putting him in
(32:46):
his mania, is exacerbating the situation. He thought he would
go in there and kill Maddie, who was her presence
rebuked him. I think that's what was going on that
night that house.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Nancy.
Speaker 7 (33:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (33:01):
In so there's a couple of things that you know,
from my think thought process in this one is you
know that Evening cobergers he's he's I don't think he's manic, depressive,
or in a manic state in any way, shape or form.
My personal opinion, I think he's very organized. He selected
(33:22):
his target set on purpose. And the reason I feel
that way, there's a couple of things. One is both
Madison and Kayley they're attached at the him from you know,
elementary school they go through, they select the same college.
They have the same kind of birthday parties together. They're
(33:43):
in the exact same house, and that evening, when Coburger
pulls up, if he's our guy, they he's got to
see her car. He's got to know based on the
surveillance that he's been doing, that she potentially could be
there as well. And so'll we have to now ask
our shelves.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
Oh wha, No, I disagree.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
I disagree because I don't know that Coburger knew about
her new car, Arrange Rover that was new and well,
I mean it's a used vehicle.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
At this point, Kelly is not really living in the house.
She's living at Courd Dealin. She just comes in for
that weekend and he didn't know that. He didn't expect it.
And when he's circling the house, he's I believe he's
not really doing that night three times he comes and goes.
I believe he's not doing surveillance. I believe he's trying
(34:37):
to find the will inside himself to turn off the motor,
to stop the car, to climb down the hill and
commit this crime. Each time he circles the house, it
is not to see what's going on. He doesn't even
really notice the cars, but it's really an internal battle
he's fighting. If he had seen the cars, if you'd
(34:58):
even seen the door Dad delivery, there was a door
Dass delivery at four am, he might have considered it.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Howard Bloom, you were taking our program down a big path.
Now I guess you're joining us from Manhattan that you
have never been down a pig path.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
But what a pig path is?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
It is certainly not a direct line or goes in
any organized manner.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
It just goes all over the place.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
But you know what, Howard Bloom, that's the way an
investigation is. When I would sit around a table talking
with investigators and witnesses other das one topic leads to
another topic, leads to another topic, and it's hard to
marshal your evidence, which you did a great job in
your book doing.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
But guys, he brought up another thing. He brought up.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Bloom brought up that coburger circles the house three times.
Speaker 2 (35:53):
And yes, I'm going to get.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
To that store clerk who, in my mind, helped crack
this case.
Speaker 2 (35:58):
Who you say wants to main anonymous? I don't, Blamer.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Long story short, how did you confirm, Howard Bloom that
a white Elantra. Our car similar to a white Elantra,
circled the King wrote address three times leading up to
the quadruple murder.
Speaker 2 (36:20):
How did you confirm that?
Speaker 4 (36:21):
Well, part of it is in court documents and the
public affidavits, but I also spoke with the gas station
attendant who gave the surveillance video to the police too,
So a lot of that is public record. What is
not public record, clearly, is what was in the driver's
mind at that time as he was circling. Something you
(36:44):
have to remember, in all the surveillance videos, there's not
one photograph of the license plate of the car. There's
not one photograph of the driver. You can't see who
it is holding the steering wheel. The FBI has tried
everything to try to pully a picture from inside the
car of who was driving that night, and they couldn't.
(37:06):
So Colburger I believe was the man in that in
that honde a Lantra, and he was trying to find
the will to cross over into the man who was
thinking about this horrific crime, to becoming the sort of
man who could commit it. And it was a difficult,
difficult journey he was taking internally that.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Night families of the slain Idaho four victims await justice
as a judge sets a date for trial.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Yeah, and that judge, many argue, is cow telling to
the defense. When are these families going to get justice?
That's a whole other can of worms with me. Howard Bloom,
the author of an incredible new book, When the Night
Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders. Okay,
all hands on deck to analyze what Howard Blome was
(37:56):
telling us. Now, Howard Bloom, you crossed over into the
gas station video, which is later when I believe Coburger.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Is leaving the scene.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
I only to go back to you stating in your
book that you believe Coburger a white Elantra circles the
crime scene three times that we know of before the
murders occur. Now, not the gas station video you are
telling me that's caught on video?
Speaker 2 (38:27):
Is it?
Speaker 1 (38:28):
As you described at the end near the end of
chapter twenty, a guy who owns a rental complex, I
think three apartments a rental complex nearby, and he's got
a camera on top of the rental complex looking down.
Did his video catch the launcher circling three times before
(38:53):
the murders.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
Yes, and in this video too, they still can't make
out a license plate, still can't make out in the
darkness the driver, but they are able to make out
the car. When the FBI in Quantico is trying to
figure out from these videos what kind of car is,
they try three different times until they finally come up
with a Hondai Elanka from twenty eleven to twenty fifteen.
(39:17):
At first they thought it was just twenty eleven to
twenty thirteen. And that's one of the reasons why Brian
Colberger takes so long to find him, because they were
the authorities in Washington State were really looking for the
wrong car.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace just got Morgan and everybody
jump in. I'm going to circle back to you, Brian
Stewart about Mensrea about intent.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Is it even needed?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Do we need explicit intent or is it implicit by
the number of the killings that we have murder ones,
of course we do, But I want to talk to
you about the legal theory before that, Joe Scott Morgan.
You hear Howard Bloom describing three times he circled that
we know of, and it's caught.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
I believe on the top of that rental facility.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
There's a camera up on the roofs and I looked everywhere.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
When I was out there, Joe Scott Morgan.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
I went very slowly, and it was slippery and icy,
and I fell more than once. I looked all the
way up and down the street for surveillance videos.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
It's very narrow. I've told you this story.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
I could sand on one side of the street, look
into the kitchen window across the street and tell you
what kind of liquid soap they had sitting on their
sink at the kitchen window.
Speaker 2 (40:50):
It's that close.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I did not see the overhead surveillance camera on that rental.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
It's on the roof. It's incredible.
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Now he was talking about the FBI tried everything to
enhance the tag and the driver.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
How what do they do doing ants?
Speaker 8 (41:09):
They're washing this thing through various programs that they have Nancy,
in order to try to tighten down the image because
it's I'm sure that it's very granulated, particularly given the
nighttime status of this, where you're not going to be
able to pick up you know, without some kind of
light enhancement like an infrared or something like this, that'll
(41:30):
be able to give you finer detail. So it's going
to be greatly compromised. And look, you know, you have
to think about the house itself. This house is kind
of shaded in darkness from the rear. You're not going
to see a lot there. There's not a lot. It's
not like being in a huge city where you've got
street lights that are all over the place that'll be
illuminating this environment. So it's going to be a tough
(41:53):
ask if you're thinking about attempting to get an image
that's that's capturable so that they can do what they
need to do in order to identify this individual.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Okay, Joe Scott, just please stop. You know what I
can see.
Speaker 1 (42:07):
I can see a tiny little crater on the moon,
but I can't get the tag number.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Or the visage of Coburger's face.
Speaker 8 (42:18):
Why. Because these houses don't have the Hubble telescope on them.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Nobody likes a smart alec or I know what all,
Joe Scott, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:26):
You're right.
Speaker 8 (42:27):
The cameras that you're talking about, they're not the highest
of quality. I mean, look, I mean he are turned
out every single day. They're in shops all over the place.
It doesn't mean that it's going to be a great quality.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Did Brian Coberger's parents suspect their son? An explosive new
book suggests family knew more than they ever let on
about their troubled son.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Howard Bloom.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
His book is so talk full of evidence and facts
supporting what many of us have been thinking and pondering.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
So much more. When the night comes.
Speaker 1 (43:01):
Falling my Howard to Bloom, Howard, we were just talking
to Joe Scott Morgan about why the FBI could not
enhance that video.
Speaker 2 (43:11):
Better than it did? I get it? But I heard
you saying something in the background. What was that?
Speaker 4 (43:15):
Well, not only couldn't they enhance the video, the FBI
has this program that they developed really for anti terrorism activities,
and they tried three different times to analyze the car,
and they got three different years. Originally they had the
car was not a Hondai, a Lantra. They made a
Nissan CenTra, and then finally there was a twenty eleven,
(43:40):
and then it's twenty thirteen, and then they finally play
at the end said twenty eleven to twenty fifteen. I
can assure you the FBI's fumblings will come up in court.
I'm sure your fins will raise this and try to
impugne the identification of the car.
Speaker 1 (43:56):
Okay, wait a minute, Wait a minute, Wait a minute.
The FBI fumbling. I don't see them fumbling here. What
do you mean by that?
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Well, fumbling in the sense that their technology was just
not up to snuff and they gave declarations. The first
original be on the lookout notice was not for a
twenty to fifteen HONDEI Alantra, It was for a twenty
eleven honde Alandra.
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Hold On, Howard Bloom, you mentioned a detail, and I'm
not sure if you thought I was just gonna ignore
it or didn't catch it, but you said the FBI
was trying to enhance They tried it three times, I
believe you said. But are you referring to the type
(44:42):
of video surveillance that was ultimately introduced in the Kyle
Rittenhouse case, where we had satellite surveillance from nearly nine
thousand feet in the air to figure out what really
happened and there was video, did the FBI go to
(45:06):
the extent of grabbing SAT video?
Speaker 4 (45:09):
So this was much more rudimentary. What they had was
the surveillance photograph, and they tried to enhance it. These
were grainy photographs and they thought they run them through
this machine, this process, this computer program that was developed
at vast expense by the Department of Defense, Defense and
Homeland Security, originally for terrorism activities, and they thought they
(45:32):
could get the identity of the car, and then they
passed it out in their original be on the lookout
at the Moscow police sent nationwide for a twenty eleven
to twenty thirteen Conde a Lantra that was a mistake.
That wasn't the year of the car they ultimately decided
was Coburg.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Guys, we are speaking to an all star panel, including
author Howard Bloom, who has just finished book When the
Night Comes Falling a Requiem for the Idaho student murders.
To my panel, I want to thank you for kindly
agreeing to join us again, because we've barely scratched the
(46:14):
surface of the evidence, how it was accumulated and what
does it mean with Howard Bloom, for instance, have we
found a receipt for the outfit Brian Coburger purchased in
war during the murders.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
There's so much more. Please join us.
Speaker 1 (46:35):
With the same all star panel, including Howard Bloom, as we,
like the investigators comb through the coburger evidence. Thank you
to our guests for being with us tonight and illuminating
the mysterious facts surrounding a quadruple murder of four beautiful students.
(47:00):
Thank you for joining us as we search for the
truth that will hopefully result in a true verdict.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
Nancy Gray signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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