March 28, 2025 • 41 mins
After divorcing, Echo Lloyd moves 16 miles from her home to rural Edwards, Missouri. The property is remote. Kelsey Smith says her mother loves the quiet and begins planning renovations, cleaning up the landscaping, and deciding how to paint the house.
Kelsey visits her mother’s home with Mother’s Day gifts. Echo’s car is not in the driveway. Kelsey leaves a purple potted plant and a card asking Echo to call when she gets the gifts. Echo never does. After a week without contact, Kelsey returns.
The search for Echo Lloyd begins immediately when she does not answer the door. Kelsey walks around the home, knocking on the front and back doors, but gets no response. Echo’s car is now in the driveway. Walking around the property, Kelsey calls out for her mother but hears nothing. She notices a cracked back window and slides it open enough to climb inside.
Inside, Kelsey finds the home in disarray, which is unusual. Echo, who had OCD, kept everything in place. Her purse is under the nightstand with her wallet and ID inside. However, her car keys, pistol, and medications are missing. Kelsey reports her mother missing.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Kelsey Smith - Echo’s Daughter; Facebook: Bring Echo Home, Gofundme: Bring Echo Home:
- Wendy Patrick - California Prosecutor, President and Founder of Black Swan Verdicts, and Author: "Red Flags: Frenemies, Underminers, and Ruthless People;" Host of ‘Today with Dr Wendy’ on KCBQ San Diego; X: @WendyPatrickPHD
- Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, and Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital; Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022, 2023 and 2024
- Barry Hutchison - former police officer and detective, owner & Chief Investigator Barry & Associates Investigative Services Kansas & Missouri www.pibarry.com;
- Tim Miller - Founder, Texas EquuSearch; TexasEquuSearch.org
- Sherae Honeycutt - Emmy-winning Journalist, Public Relations Professional, Foster Care Advocate and Current Press Secretary and City Spokesperson for the City of Kansas City; IG: @sheraeloveskc; X: @sheraehoneycutt
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A gorgeous mom disappears from her own home. Where is Echo?
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
A Missouri mother disappears last scene at a local discount store.
Her family desperate to find Echo Lloyd.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mom for Echo.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Lloyd goes to a discount store, then comes home and
is apparently never seen again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That doesn't make sense, listen.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Kelsey Smith drops by her mother's home with Mother's Day gifts.
Echo's car is not in the driveway. Kelsey leaves a
purple potted plant and a card. The card has a
message for Echo to call when she gets the gifts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Echo doesn't.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
After a week with no contact, Kelsey returns to her
mom's home.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Highly highly unusual for Mom Echo to go over a
day without speaking to her daughter. The daughter going to
the home banging banging on the door, trying to reach Mom.
Echo can't reach her. Take a look at this beautiful
mom of four Echo Lloyd.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Where is Echo? Joining me?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Wendy Patrick, renowned prosecutor, author of Why Bad Looks So Good?
Second book, Reading People, How to Understand people, predict their
behavior anytime, any place. She is the star of Today
with doctor Wendy on Casey BQ Wendy. Behavior evidence or
routine evidence not predictable as in routine, but evidence of
(01:44):
your normal routine.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
For instance, if the camera.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Came to this seat and I was not in it,
that would be breaking routine and that means something path Wendy,
what does it mean?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It is powerful evidence of how of custom, of pattern
of practice, and it comes into evidence most frequently when
there's a gap. When there's a lag, when somebody like
Echo who follows the same routine, or anybody it suddenly
fails to follow the routine. They're disappearing. They don't show
up at work, they don't show up to pick children
up from school.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
So that type of.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Pattern evidence, even the route somebody takes to and from.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
Work, all of that is powerful evidence in court.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
When it's disrupted, that's when we start asking questions.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
The break and ones predictable routine. Think about it, Do
you have a routine?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I do. I wake up at five o'clock, I clean
out the guinea pig cage. I take care of my
mom and take her breakfast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I then wake up the twins, get them ready and
out the door for school and then my work day starts.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That is a predictable routine.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Same thing happened in another very high profile case, the
disappearance of a beautiful young girl, Jennifer Kessi.
Speaker 7 (03:03):
It looked like she slept in her bed. She had
two or three outfits laid out on the bed as
if she was choosing an outfit to wear she as
was stated, the bathroom looked like someone got ready to
go to work. The rest of the condo was just perfect.
It honestly looked like a maid came through, right down
to a full setting, four piece setting table setting on
(03:25):
her dining room table.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It doesn't make sense joining me is a veteran PI
twenty six years on the police force as a detective
now with Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Did you hear
that Barry talking about Jennifer Kessy And oh that was
me speaking to her father, Drew Cassie. We've been working
(03:47):
that cold case for so long, but that heartbreaking detail
of her keeping her little condo so perfect and in
order that she even had the four piece table setting
still sitting on her dining room table when mom and
dad got there.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
When she didn't show up to work.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
That's a heartbreaking detail that has always stuck with me, Barry.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
It does, and it doesn't make sense at all. You know,
people when they set patterns like that and you see
it disrupted, it's a good indicator that something is just
not right. And you know you know that right from
the get go, and it throws up the red flag
and they helped you direct your investigation.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
But sadly, hunches and just a gut feeling something's quote
not right. That's nothing I can bring in as evidence
in front of a jury.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We need more.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
As a matter of fact, listen to Jennifer Kesse's mother.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is Cassi one more?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Can you tell me about what time if you know
that she would contact her boyfriend in the morning.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
He well, Gen typically left for between seven thirty and
eight in the morning, and it was her habit to
call Rob when she got in her car, So as
she got in her car and was driving to work
is when she would make that good morning call. And
as we know, Rob never received that call.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
To doctor Angela Arnold joining us renowned psychiatrist in the
Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold m D.
Doctor Angie, just thinking about what Jennifer Kesse's parents have
told me then and have told me over the years
since Jennifer went missing. They went in her condo and
(05:31):
everything was as normal. She liked to lay out all
of her outfits she might wear that day on the
bed and look at them as she was getting ready
in the morning. The shower was damp, the towel was damp,
the clothes were all laid out with matching shoes that
she was picking from.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But no Jennifer.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And when she missed that morning call, she called her
boyfriend every morning on the way to work. Okay, I
had a routine like that all the way through law school,
even up until Oh my Stars, when I was pregnant
with the twins, when my mom and dad came to
stay with us. My mom called me every morning, every
(06:14):
morning at six point thirty.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
That was the routine.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Now, she said it was to make sure I was awake,
But now, being a mom, I know it was just,
you know, to get a chance to talk.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Before all hell breaks loose in the middle of the day.
So that was Jennifer's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Routine, right, And when that routine breaks in my mind,
that's the beginning of a criminal timeline, Doctor Angie.
Speaker 6 (06:38):
I completely agree with you, Nancy, And you know, Nancy,
are typical routines that we go through comforting to people.
We all have those. They comfort us as human beings.
So why would somebody The big question is why would
somebody break from their routine in particular morning, So, of
course that is indicative of when a crime line should start.
(07:03):
Why would you break in your routine?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And joining me right now an investigative reporter who knows
the Echo Lloyd case backwards and forwards, Charii Honeycut is
joining us. Emmy winning journalist Charay, thank you for being
with us. Tell me about what happened when Echo's daughter
came over to the house looking from mom.
Speaker 10 (07:26):
So she brought a gift home to her mom for
Mother's Day. She had a plant and a card, and
she couldn't find her mom at the house. She was
knocking on the door and wasn't responsive. She actually broke
into the house to get inside and see.
Speaker 11 (07:39):
If she was there.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
And it's interesting you mentioned, you know, everything in the
other cases home there were you know, things all.
Speaker 11 (07:47):
Laid out well.
Speaker 10 (07:48):
In Echo's case, things were a little strewn about and
things were missing, but some things were there, And it's
just interesting how this case played out that way. She
couldn't find her, she couldn't get a hold of her,
and then we just never heard what happened to her.
There was nothing from that. There was her car was there.
(08:08):
There was no way to know where she went. And
as you mentioned, you know, she was last seen at
a drug store and then hadn't seen her since.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
The daughter visits mom for Mother's Day, bringing a present
with her. Mom doesn't respond. She leaves, but the daughter
comes back curious where's Mom?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Kelsey Smith walks around the home front, door to back,
but no one answers. Echo's car is in the driveway.
Walking around the property, Kelsey yells her mom's name, still
no reply. Kelsey notices a back window is cracked and
is able to slide it open enough to climb through.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's pretty bold breaking into mom's home because she is
so convinced something is off, kilt or you just heard
investigative reporter Charay Honeycut describing a somewhat chaotic scene inside Listen.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Inside the home, Kelsey finds things in disarray, which is unusual. Echo,
who had OCD kept items in their place. Kelsey found
an open can of molded food on the kitchen island,
a mattress on the floor in front of the couch,
and trash piles scattered around. The air conditioning is on
full blast. In the bedroom, there was a pack of
(09:26):
cigarettes on top of the nightstand.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
None of that is consistent with Echo Lloyd's personality. To
doctor Angela Arnold, veteran psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction who
specializes in the treatment of women, hold on, she's OCD,
all right, and I'm gonna let you explain that, or
(09:51):
kindly ask you to explain that, And then compare that
to the way the daughter finds her mom's home. Wait
for it, she always kept everything in its place. A
lot of people function better if everything is in its place,
because out of place distracts them. Daughter Kelsey finds an
(10:11):
open can of food in the kitchen, a mattress on
the floor in front of the couch, trash piles scattered
around the home, air conditioner on full blast, and SIGs.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
On the nightstand. None of that is consistent with Echo.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Nancy. I mean, first of all, if you have obsest
compulsive disorder. That is something that does not come and go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That is an.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Anxiety disorder that you have all the time. And people
with OCD find it comforting to have everything in its place, okay,
And there are variations of that. Some people are more
OCD than others. But never would an OCD person have
(10:57):
moldy food, a mattress on the floor, cigarettes on the
bedside table. That sounds like somebody came in, And that
sounds like somebody came in and took over her home
to me, But that is not an OCD person would
never allow that to happen in their home.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
OCD obsessive compulsive.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Compuls disorder disorder.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It is so much.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
More than just being a neat nick. A lot of
people are neat nicks. That does not mean they're OCD.
Explain the difference in a neat nick and someone with OCD.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
There's a vast difference.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
Someone with First of all, like I said, Nancy, OCD
is it's a type of anxiety. Okay. So for someone
with OCD, if something is out of order, it actually
causes them a lot of anxiety. If there's a break
in their routine, if something in their home is is
misplaced a little bit that actually causes that person anxiety,
(11:57):
a neat knick. On the other hand, you like your
home to meet, but it's not going to cause you
a tremendous amount of possibly crippling anxiety if your home
isn't in it's in perfect condition, Okay, but someone with
OCD must, for example, Nancy. Sometimes people with OCD have
(12:19):
different routines and rituals that they have to do, for example,
before they go to bed at night or before they
get out of their car. They have very specific rituals.
Meat nicks do not have rituals.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Okay, someone that will remain nameless. I watched them get
in the car. I'm like, crank up, leave, but they
sit there and I can see them fidgeting around. And
it wasn't just once, it's every time that person gets
in the car, and there's like a one minute delay
(12:54):
where apparently they're just sitting there and maybe fidgeting with something,
but I can't make it out. You're saying people have
rituals even before they crank up and take off, like you, oh,
please take this right.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
For example, I've had situations where patients have told me
that when they get in the car or out of
the car, they have to turn the radio dial three
times forward and three times back before they put it
on the station that they want to listen to. I've
had people have to touch their handbag a certain amount
(13:28):
of times before they can start the car. All different
kinds of rituals that they're actually called.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, wait a minute, I need to be able to
speak this in understandable language.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Are you talking about like Monk?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Remember Monk, I love him, But remember Monk, I would
have to like touch every seventy steps on the way home.
And Okay, So now I've got a visual. So this
woman has the same thing that Monk has mon K
the investigator, and that was triggered by the murder of
his wife in the story, This woman echo Lloyd has that.
(14:08):
So it would be a cold day in helerell that
she's gonna have molded food on the counter, the matches
put in front of the TV, trash piles in the floor.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
He wouldn't be able to go to sleep at night
with her house looking like that. There is no way
that if you have OCD, that you could tolerate that
in your home.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Knox go unanswered Mother's Day gifts untouched. Echo, Lloyd's eldest
daughter finds the home a complete mess, but the mom
of four is nowhere in sight. Where is Echo joining
me in All Star panel? But straight back to investigative
reporter Emmy Award winning journalist Charre Honeycutt Scharray, thanks for
(14:56):
being with us. That's quite the dichotomy that her aha
is a complete disarray. She could function that way if
she's truly OCD, which she is, but yet certain she's gone,
but certain very critical items were there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Explain what they were and where they were.
Speaker 10 (15:16):
As you mentioned, you know, they found the purse under
the nightstand and the ID. And when you think about
you know, if somebody is just going to often leave
their life, that's something that they need and they need
that to function to go anywhere. They're going to need
that when they're making purchases or to especially if you're
leaving your life, you need that ID to start something new.
(15:36):
So the idea that she would leave her purse, she
would not have her medications and things like that, they
just don't make sense. And the way that you described
or you're calling described the home, it doesn't feel like
she was using her own home right we're talking about
someone who is very ocd and has a way and
a routine of doing things.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
Well, if you see.
Speaker 10 (15:57):
Trash piles on the floor, that's not what she would
be doing. So it not only feels like her things
were tampered with, but her home was used while she
probably wasn't there. And so one thing I wanted to
mention about this conversation is where she lives. So she
lives in Edwards, Missouri, which is an extremely rural part
of Missouri. It's out by the Lake of the Ozarks,
(16:20):
and where she actually where her home was, is extremely
in the middle of nowhere. So the idea that someone
is coming to your house and is in your house,
it's not like someone is just walking off the street
and going into your home. Someone would need to know
you live there, and there would need to be a
connection for that person to be there. I can't imagine
(16:41):
someone just coming upon her home and a stranger being
in there because the driveway is so long and so
far to the house, you wouldn't even know the house
was there.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
You know, Shurey Honeycott, you have an incredible track record,
you're an Emmy winner, you're highly regarded, but FYI were
to the wise, US country hicks don't like it when
somebody suggests we're country hicks, like out in the middle
of nowhere, that's somewhere to somebody, Okay, that said, joining me.
(17:12):
Tim Miller a longtime friend and colleague. He is the
founder of Texas Equa Search. He's on a search and
a cold case for a young woman right now, and
he's actually pulled off the search to join us tonight
in the search for Echo Lloyd. Tim Miller, I was
(17:33):
just pulling shry Honeycoff's leg on behalf of all US
country hicks. But Tim, her point is very well taken.
There's a big difference when you go missing from a
place like this with the population of twenty five hundred
in all versus you know, disappearing in the heart of
(17:54):
la or in Manhattan where anybody could have grabbed you.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Likelihood that a stranger.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Showed up and took Echo, that's a very low probability,
Tim Miller.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
Well, I think you're right. And I actually met with
two detectives with Missouri State Police and we spent several
hours together. They gave me a lot of maps, a
lot of information, and they've got an area of real
interest in the case, and we're going to go up
there and look this area over, and then right when
(18:28):
vegetation starts growing, we're going to go up there and
do the search. But I think we've got some pretty
good information. You know, it's been a while since she's
been missing, and we always say when we go into this,
no matter what resource we bring, there this small chance
that we're going to get located. But if we don't
(18:49):
do anything, there's no chance. But you know, Nancy, I am.
I'm pretty optimistic that she is findable with the information
that we've got.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Tim Miller, who was just in this jurisdiction in Missouri Edwards,
Missouri or Warsaw to be more specific, Tim Miller, when
you say an area of interest and you're headed back
to continue the search in depth, can you share with
us the area of interest which you will be searching.
Speaker 12 (19:22):
Well, you know, this area does have it's about twelve
hundred acres. I think we've got it maybe narrowed down
to maybe two hundred acres of him. You know, I
don't want to put too much stuff out there to
make a possible person of interest. You know, what's going
to be happening.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So you have an area of interest. I wasn't expecting
you to say it was two hundred square acres. That's
a very vast area of interest.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
How will you search that? I send with drones, with dogs,
with horses, with ATVs.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
How would you go about searching a two hundred acre
area of interest?
Speaker 12 (20:02):
Well, you know what everything that you just mentioned, but
you know what our drone pilot which he actually is,
he's a big educator in it and stuff and developed
so much software that it's unbelievable. And literally, Nancy, we
found a person that was murdered and buried eight years
(20:22):
later because when we flew the drone right when vegetation
started growing, there was a different area, different little color
of different vegetation and everything, and literally dug that body up.
We feel as oh, Etho Lloyd very possibly is buried
at a shallow grave. And so you know what, Yes,
(20:46):
we're going to bring in the ATV, so horses and
ground searchers, the dogs, the drone and everything that we
can possibly break in on this. And again meeting with
the two detail this from the Missouri State Police and
we spent several hours with them. The maps they gave
us the information they gave us. You know, of course
(21:08):
it's going to be a joint venture between US and
Missouri State. Please, and again I've said this one hundred times.
No matter what we bring in, there the small chance
that we're going to get them located. But if we
don't do anything, there's no chance. So you know we're
going to leave from Texas, go to Missouri and take
that small chance. And you know what, Nancy, we did
(21:31):
one seven eight months ago on Kimberley Langwell in Beaumont.
I remember the first time I searched for her in
two thousand and one and we got called twenty five
years later. In four minutes, we found her with ground
penetration units. So you know what, we bring in every
resource that we can bring in. And I always say,
(21:53):
if we leave the results up to God, and you
know what, God has certainly put us in the right
place the right time many times. We're just going to
ask him again.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, Tim Miller, what you said about your drone
operator being so great, you're right, because if your drone
operator could see I'm guessing a more vibrant and intense
shade of green in the vegetation in one area which
would signify newer growth, which would signify disturbed earth.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And then new growth.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
He spotted that and sure enough, that is where the
victim was.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That's amazing and Tim.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Miller will never ever brag on himself. Tim Miller is
a crime victim. His daughter was murdered. She went missing
and was murdered.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
He made it his.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Life's mission to help find missing people. That's who Tim
Miller of Equisearch is.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Now.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The reason we keep talking about Echo Lloyd's home and
the last time she was seen at this discount store.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Why why do we care so much?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Because we're trying to establish a time line, which is critical.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
In another high profile case.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
The disappearance of a young mom, Heidi Plank. It was
easy to establish her timeline. She's never been found.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I might add, but we've got a legitimate.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Timeline because she's caught on video walking her dog.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Heidi planks ex husband says the mom left their son's
football game at halftime, seemingly distracted. Security footage from October
seventeenth shows her leaving her West Los Angeles home with
her dog.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
In a bizarre turn.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Three hours later, in downtown Los Angeles, her dog was
found on the twenty eighth floor of an apartment building plank.
Her silver range rover, her purse, her personal phone, and
computer all gone. Her friend and ex husband say when
she didn't show up to pick up our son, they
knew that something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Cigarettes, purse and wallet left behind, but her phone, medications
and car keys are missing. Will these suspicious clues lead
authorities to the missing mom of four?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Where is this gorgeous young MoMA for Echo Lloyd? Now
we get a timeline of sorts. That's where the investigation starts.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Listen During the search for Echo, police begin a timeline.
On May ninth, Kelsey talked to her mother. On the tenth,
Kelsey decides to surprise her mother, but her car is
not at the home. A few witnesses came forward saying
they believe they had seen Echo at a Walmart in Warsaw, Missouri.
Authorities find a receipt with the same May tenth date
in her shower. The police investigation revealed that on May fourteenth,
(24:57):
Echo was possibly spotted at a nearby gas station trying
to buy a cell phone. According to reports, she tried
to pay for it with a check, but that was declined.
There has been no other activity on her account or
credit card.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Don't these convenience stores have surveillance video. For Pete's sake,
Charre Honeycutt joining me Emmy Award winning journalists tell me
about those sidings. Because the May fourteen siding is credible
to me because we know she didn't have her cell phone,
so the fact that someone states she was at a
nearby gas station trying to buy a cell phone makes
(25:35):
sense to me. That place is my timeline starting at
May fourteen. She's alive on that day.
Speaker 10 (25:40):
Sure, I think is odd she wanted to buy a
cell phone as well. I just think the purchase is
a little odd. And then when you go back to
talking about, you know, how she was, how things were
found in her home, the idea that there was a
receipt in her bathtub is very odd to me too,
and so I think that the report is credible. I
think that sometimes stores are difficult about giving over that
(26:04):
video or retaining it.
Speaker 11 (26:06):
So I'm not sure if that was part of the
issue as to why we don't know more.
Speaker 10 (26:10):
About it, But I think it does show that there
is a possibility that she was there and shows that
she was alive for that time period, and then unfortunately,
being in such a rural area, it's unclear as to
you know where she was and what was going on
at the time of her actual disappearance.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, there is no way with someone with OCD that
there will be a receipt in her shower, all right,
But when you don't know where to go, you backtrack
and you look at your victim. Who is in the
circle of people around her? Who is Echo Lloyd?
Speaker 13 (26:49):
Listen, Echo Lloyd is going through a divorce. She moved
sixteen miles from her current home to rule Edward, Missouri,
a town with a population of less than twenty five hundred.
Lloyd's ten acre property is a bit.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Secluded population of twenty five hundred that greatly reduces our
suspect pool.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
As Echo Lloyd looks for a place to start the
next chapter of her life, she makes her way to
the Lake of the Ozarks. The property in Edward's, Missouri
is remote. There's a gas station and a post office
and little else. But Kelsey Smith says her mom loves
the quiet of the property and begins making plans for renovations,
cleaning up the landscaping, creating ideas for how she wants
(27:32):
to paint the house, and right there that rolls out
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Any potential suicide. We have no evidence of that whatsoever. Agreed, disagree,
doctor Angie. If she is renovating her home and she's
out in the front yard landscaping and coming out bringing
home paint ships, she's planning.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
On a future in this time.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
She's not going to drop the paint rush and go,
you know what, I'm gonna kill myself And no evidence
of where I am. That did not happen to Shurrey
Honeycutt joining us. Shara, tell me about the ex. Do
I suspect the ex? No?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Not at this juncture.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That's contrary to everything I ever think as a knee
jerk reaction based on statistics, because statistically, a woman is
kidnapped or harmed or even killed by an ex husband,
a husband, a boyfriend, just some man in her life.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But that doesn't seem to be the case here, Schara.
Speaker 10 (28:30):
No, from what I understood with the relationships in the family,
she actually had a really good relationship with her ex
husband and they had separated amicably, and she had moved
to this new place to start a new life, and
they were still on very good terms. I spoke a
lot with her daughter, who says she was in very
good terms with her mom as well, and that they
(28:53):
just had a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Surey, Honeycutt correct me if I'm wrong, please, But even
with the home and no sign of echo Lloyd, investigators
still tell the family they do not believe there was
any foul play.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's what they originally said.
Speaker 10 (29:11):
Part of that has to do with no evidence of
maybe a body or any blood, or any real weapon
or struggle.
Speaker 11 (29:21):
I think the way the.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
House is described, it sounds like it's messy. The police
don't necessarily know her behaviors at that time when they
first start on the case, and so I think at
the beginning maybe they.
Speaker 11 (29:34):
Felt like there was no foul play.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
But I think the circumstances of the home definitely lead
to a different pathway for this case.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Wendy Patrick explain to me, why is it when a
woman goes missing, there's no foul play, She's just probably off.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
With her boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Remember Stacy Peterson, the fourth wife of then cop Drew Peterson.
He was later convicted in the murder of his wife,
Kathleen Savio.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
She was found drowned in.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
A bone dry bathtub. It was real access she's covered
in bruises.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I hate when you slip in the tub and your
whole body's covered in bruises and the tub is completely dry.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Hay when that happens. So it was.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Determined then based on the husband's word, that she had
made off with a boy friend. It happens over and
over and over, or mommy just wants some me time.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
That's total byes. Why is that always the knee jerk reaction. Yeah,
it's a shame.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Sometimes many people might think it's an easy reaction, but
there is no way it fits this fact pattern.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Nancy. That house was a.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Crime scene in every sense of the word because it
was so contrary to the OCD that Echo had. There
is no way she would be sharing space with somebody
that would leave the house in disarray like that. Not
to mention the amount of DNA that was likely left behind,
but that excuse, even though it's unfairly used in other cases,
does not fit in any way, shape or form in
(31:07):
this case. And that is one of the ways in
which this case is distinct and might many might think
more solvable. Given the amount of evidence that was left
at that what sounds like, as you mentioned the beginning
of a prime timeline.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Take a listen to the then share of Eric Knox.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
We're not sure what happened to you because we're domats Is.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
We don't even know where.
Speaker 12 (31:29):
You should look for him.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You have nothing, Wait, you don't know where to look?
Ask Tim Miller.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
That's from our friends at Paramount Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Where is a gorgeous young mom? Echo Lloyd straight out
to Tim Miller, joining us, founder and director of ECUA
(31:58):
Search on a mine should define missing people?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
What about it, Tim Miller?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The fact that at the get Go Ellie law enforcement
said nothing suggests foul play. In my mind, everything suggests
foul play.
Speaker 12 (32:12):
Yeah, you don't fancy. I experienced that when I reported
Laura listened and they said, do you know a go
home wait by or Ford Pol. Laura ran away. I
knew she did. I could get no help, zero none.
Seventeen months later, her body is found, along with three
other girls, of all of them murdered, still on solved.
(32:32):
So you know what, We've worked with some very very
great law enforcement agencies in the past, and we've worked
with something that are very very incompetent. And again, even
in today's world, subaly cases that we get out in
a very beginning, they said, oh, you know what, this
person had a problem. They was doing drugs, They was
doing this, and you know it's it makes my blood boil.
(33:00):
I hear that.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You know, Tim Miller is speaking about his daughter who
disappeared at age sixteen.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
He was told, oh, she's a runaway. She wasn't. She
had been.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Kidnapped and murdered, along with other girls found at the
same burial site. To doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist doctor Angie,
I don't want to get on a slapbox about this
because it's neither here nor there in finding echo. But
I do believe that it's misogynistic women haters that say, oh,
(33:34):
either she's quote a bitch or a quote hope. She
had so many enemies, she didn't get along with anybody,
she's hysterical blah blah blah okay, or she's a big hoe.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
She's out with her new boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, there's nothing wrong. Both are so inaccurate, Both
are so demeaning, and I hear it over and over.
She's hysterical translation, she ran off a committed toy I
and a fit of some sort.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Let's blame it on PMS. Let's just throw it all in.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Or she's out with a new boyfriend and leaving her children.
That's never true, doctor Angie. Have you noticed maybe they
should teach that at police academy?
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Oh my god, Nancy, it makes me so bad, and
you know, it also reminds me of what happened to
Babby Patito right before she was killed. So why doesn't
this change, Nancy? How can we inform the police officers
that are out there doing these jobs and I know
they've worked very hard, but then time, precious time is lost.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
To talk to talk doctor Angie, you had the nail
on the head and ps no o MG on crime stories. Okay, no,
we don't say that on crime stories.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But that said, then a major development, What, if anything,
does it mean? Listen?
Speaker 14 (34:56):
The next door neighbor and close friend of Echo Lloyd,
who did not help search for his friend, lives with
his grandfather. Two weeks after Echo Lloyd disappears, the grandfather
is found in the basement of his home suffering from
a broken back. He's taken to a hospital where he
succumbs to his injuries days later. According to Kelsey Smith,
while removing the grandfather from the basement, Echo Lloyd's missing
prescription medication and keys are found in the basement of
(35:18):
her neighbor's home. According to Smith, police did not get
a search warrant for the house before turning the investigation
over to the Missouri State Highway Patrol Missing Persons Clearinghouse.
Ben County Sheriff Eric Knox said of the Echo Lloyd case,
she is absolutely missing without a trace. Investigator's report, There's
been no use of her cell phone or bank cards
since she was reported missing, and the pharmacy has confirmed
(35:40):
none of Eckilloyd's necessary medications have been filled since she disappeared.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Shray Honeycutt joining us, who is this neighbor and why
are Echo Lloyd's items, including her missing prescription meds and
her keys found in his place?
Speaker 10 (35:59):
That is an incredible question, Nancy, and one that I
don't have a clear answer to. But what I can
tell you is in talking with Kelsey, she had confided
her mother had confided in her that she had met
this neighbor, they had become friends, and that he had
started to develop a crush on her. That she did
not reciprocate. You know, we were talking about her coming
(36:21):
out of a marriage and wanting to start a new life,
and a boyfriend, especially one that maybe younger than her,
wasn't really what she was looking for at the time,
is what Kelsey had told me. And so this relationship
was a little odd. But at some point I know
that she didn't really want to continue that relationship and
(36:41):
had expressed that.
Speaker 11 (36:42):
To him at some point.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And in my mind, there's more disturbing evidence to Barry
Hutcheson joining us twenty six years in law enforcement, now
owner and operator of Very Associates Investigative Services located in
this jurisdiction Marry in my mind, and possibly even more disturbing,
(37:04):
is that he Smith would walk over to Echo's property
and sometimes he would come into her home without knocking.
I mean, if I turned around in my kitchen there's
some guy standing there, I shoot him.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Oops, don't have a gun, But if I had a gun,
I would shoot him.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know.
Speaker 15 (37:23):
One of the things that hasn't been touched on with
this that I know in this case is I find
it's strange that the next door neighbor would have a
key to the house, but the daughter didn't and that
she would have to make it trained that.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Very odd too, very odd. Indeed, now this guy is
not a suspect.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Just because some people think his behavior is odd does
not make him a suspect.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But Tim Miller, I can't get away.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
I cannot get away from the fact that her meds
and her car keys were in his place.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Why are they there?
Speaker 12 (37:59):
I think by the time they determined that possibly foul
play was involved, instead of her just leaving on her own, well,
it was literally a cold case before it was a
missing first case. So you know, they had to start
from scratch, and you know, I think they got their
(38:20):
aid dinner Facebook. Bottom line is, I think they would
have looked just a little bit different in the very beginning.
Maybe we wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
To Tim Miller joining me from Texas Equisearch. Tim Miller,
let's take a look at those three working theories. Number one,
the second theory that she saw something in the woods
she shouldn't have seen. Now, that didn't happen. There's not
some nefarious killer out there that happened to me in
the middle of the woods, population twenty five hundred. That
(38:48):
didn't happen. That leaves me two choices of the working theories.
Now you've got the daughter who admits she had a
drug addiction, and it's claimed she had not all our debts,
So am I supposed to believe that because the daughter
had a past a drug addiction, that somebody came and
took or killed echo some revenge. No, that's way too far, feesh.
(39:14):
But what about this neighbor who is not a suspect?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Surey, honeycutt. What about the neighbor?
Speaker 10 (39:21):
That is the number one question everyone wants to know,
you know, did he do it? What was going on
at that time? I think a big piece of that
that is impeding the case is what we talked about earlier,
the inability to really investigate at the time this happened.
A lot of the evidence had sat there for a
(39:42):
long time. And what I will say when I got
involved in this case is that no one was covering
it and the public really wanted to understand what happened.
And I got an overwhelming amount of messages, just knowing
the work that I do, asking me to drive hours
out of my area to cover this case because it
(40:03):
wasn't getting the attention it needed.
Speaker 11 (40:06):
And it still hasn't in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
SUI, what can you tell me about the neighbor buying
nine bags of cement just before we think just before
because we don't have a clear timeline just before Echo
goes missing, and when the home was searched they only
found one bag out of nine.
Speaker 11 (40:26):
I would want to know what happened to eight bags
of cement?
Speaker 10 (40:29):
And if you look around that area, I mean it's
an expansive area. In my experience covering cases that have
turned into death investigations or homicides, typically the people are
found very close to home or where they were last seen.
And so I think Tim's work is going to be
(40:49):
very important this coming spring looking around that home, because
we know that people don't go very far from where
they're last seen.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of this young mom, Echo Lloyd, please dial toll
free eight hundred eight seven seven three four five two
repeat eight hundred eight seven seven three four five two.
(41:21):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A gorgeous mom disappears from her own home. Where is Echo?
I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
A Missouri mother disappears last scene at a local discount store.
Her family desperate to find Echo Lloyd.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Mom for Echo.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Lloyd goes to a discount store, then comes home and
is apparently never seen again.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
That doesn't make sense, listen.
Speaker 4 (00:36):
Kelsey Smith drops by her mother's home with Mother's Day gifts.
Echo's car is not in the driveway. Kelsey leaves a
purple potted plant and a card. The card has a
message for Echo to call when she gets the gifts.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Echo doesn't.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
After a week with no contact, Kelsey returns to her
mom's home.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Highly highly unusual for Mom Echo to go over a
day without speaking to her daughter. The daughter going to
the home banging banging on the door, trying to reach Mom.
Echo can't reach her. Take a look at this beautiful
mom of four Echo Lloyd.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Where is Echo? Joining me?
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Wendy Patrick, renowned prosecutor, author of Why Bad Looks So Good?
Second book, Reading People, How to Understand people, predict their
behavior anytime, any place. She is the star of Today
with doctor Wendy on Casey BQ Wendy. Behavior evidence or
routine evidence not predictable as in routine, but evidence of
(01:44):
your normal routine.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
For instance, if the camera.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Came to this seat and I was not in it,
that would be breaking routine and that means something path Wendy,
what does it mean?
Speaker 5 (01:58):
It is powerful evidence of how of custom, of pattern
of practice, and it comes into evidence most frequently when
there's a gap. When there's a lag, when somebody like
Echo who follows the same routine, or anybody it suddenly
fails to follow the routine. They're disappearing. They don't show
up at work, they don't show up to pick children
up from school.
Speaker 6 (02:18):
So that type of.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Pattern evidence, even the route somebody takes to and from.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
Work, all of that is powerful evidence in court.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
When it's disrupted, that's when we start asking questions.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
The break and ones predictable routine. Think about it, Do
you have a routine?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
I do. I wake up at five o'clock, I clean
out the guinea pig cage. I take care of my
mom and take her breakfast.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
I then wake up the twins, get them ready and
out the door for school and then my work day starts.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That is a predictable routine.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Same thing happened in another very high profile case, the
disappearance of a beautiful young girl, Jennifer Kessi.
Speaker 7 (03:03):
It looked like she slept in her bed. She had
two or three outfits laid out on the bed as
if she was choosing an outfit to wear she as
was stated, the bathroom looked like someone got ready to
go to work. The rest of the condo was just perfect.
It honestly looked like a maid came through, right down
to a full setting, four piece setting table setting on
(03:25):
her dining room table.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
It doesn't make sense joining me is a veteran PI
twenty six years on the police force as a detective
now with Barry and Associates Investigative Services. Did you hear
that Barry talking about Jennifer Kessy And oh that was
me speaking to her father, Drew Cassie. We've been working
(03:47):
that cold case for so long, but that heartbreaking detail
of her keeping her little condo so perfect and in
order that she even had the four piece table setting
still sitting on her dining room table when mom and
dad got there.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
When she didn't show up to work.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
That's a heartbreaking detail that has always stuck with me, Barry.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
It just doesn't make sense.
Speaker 8 (04:11):
It does, and it doesn't make sense at all. You know,
people when they set patterns like that and you see
it disrupted, it's a good indicator that something is just
not right. And you know you know that right from
the get go, and it throws up the red flag
and they helped you direct your investigation.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
But sadly, hunches and just a gut feeling something's quote
not right. That's nothing I can bring in as evidence
in front of a jury.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
We need more.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
As a matter of fact, listen to Jennifer Kesse's mother.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Is Cassi one more?
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Can you tell me about what time if you know
that she would contact her boyfriend in the morning.
Speaker 9 (04:47):
He well, Gen typically left for between seven thirty and
eight in the morning, and it was her habit to
call Rob when she got in her car, So as
she got in her car and was driving to work
is when she would make that good morning call. And
as we know, Rob never received that call.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
To doctor Angela Arnold joining us renowned psychiatrist in the
Atlanta jurisdiction. You can find her at Angela Arnold m D.
Doctor Angie, just thinking about what Jennifer Kesse's parents have
told me then and have told me over the years
since Jennifer went missing. They went in her condo and
(05:31):
everything was as normal. She liked to lay out all
of her outfits she might wear that day on the
bed and look at them as she was getting ready
in the morning. The shower was damp, the towel was damp,
the clothes were all laid out with matching shoes that
she was picking from.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
But no Jennifer.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
And when she missed that morning call, she called her
boyfriend every morning on the way to work. Okay, I
had a routine like that all the way through law school,
even up until Oh my Stars, when I was pregnant
with the twins, when my mom and dad came to
stay with us. My mom called me every morning, every
(06:14):
morning at six point thirty.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
That was the routine.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Now, she said it was to make sure I was awake,
But now, being a mom, I know it was just,
you know, to get a chance to talk.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Before all hell breaks loose in the middle of the day.
So that was Jennifer's.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Routine, right, And when that routine breaks in my mind,
that's the beginning of a criminal timeline, Doctor Angie.
Speaker 6 (06:38):
I completely agree with you, Nancy, And you know, Nancy,
are typical routines that we go through comforting to people.
We all have those. They comfort us as human beings.
So why would somebody The big question is why would
somebody break from their routine in particular morning, So, of
course that is indicative of when a crime line should start.
(07:03):
Why would you break in your routine?
Speaker 2 (07:05):
And joining me right now an investigative reporter who knows
the Echo Lloyd case backwards and forwards, Charii Honeycut is
joining us. Emmy winning journalist Charay, thank you for being
with us. Tell me about what happened when Echo's daughter
came over to the house looking from mom.
Speaker 10 (07:26):
So she brought a gift home to her mom for
Mother's Day. She had a plant and a card, and
she couldn't find her mom at the house. She was
knocking on the door and wasn't responsive. She actually broke
into the house to get inside and see.
Speaker 11 (07:39):
If she was there.
Speaker 10 (07:40):
And it's interesting you mentioned, you know, everything in the
other cases home there were you know, things all.
Speaker 11 (07:47):
Laid out well.
Speaker 10 (07:48):
In Echo's case, things were a little strewn about and
things were missing, but some things were there, And it's
just interesting how this case played out that way. She
couldn't find her, she couldn't get a hold of her,
and then we just never heard what happened to her.
There was nothing from that. There was her car was there.
(08:08):
There was no way to know where she went. And
as you mentioned, you know, she was last seen at
a drug store and then hadn't seen her since.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Guys.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
The daughter visits mom for Mother's Day, bringing a present
with her. Mom doesn't respond. She leaves, but the daughter
comes back curious where's Mom?
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (08:36):
Kelsey Smith walks around the home front, door to back,
but no one answers. Echo's car is in the driveway.
Walking around the property, Kelsey yells her mom's name, still
no reply. Kelsey notices a back window is cracked and
is able to slide it open enough to climb through.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
That's pretty bold breaking into mom's home because she is
so convinced something is off, kilt or you just heard
investigative reporter Charay Honeycut describing a somewhat chaotic scene inside Listen.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
Inside the home, Kelsey finds things in disarray, which is unusual. Echo,
who had OCD kept items in their place. Kelsey found
an open can of molded food on the kitchen island,
a mattress on the floor in front of the couch,
and trash piles scattered around. The air conditioning is on
full blast. In the bedroom, there was a pack of
(09:26):
cigarettes on top of the nightstand.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
None of that is consistent with Echo Lloyd's personality. To
doctor Angela Arnold, veteran psychiatrist in the Atlanta jurisdiction who
specializes in the treatment of women, hold on, she's OCD,
all right, and I'm gonna let you explain that, or
(09:51):
kindly ask you to explain that, And then compare that
to the way the daughter finds her mom's home. Wait
for it, she always kept everything in its place. A
lot of people function better if everything is in its place,
because out of place distracts them. Daughter Kelsey finds an
(10:11):
open can of food in the kitchen, a mattress on
the floor in front of the couch, trash piles scattered
around the home, air conditioner on full blast, and SIGs.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
On the nightstand. None of that is consistent with Echo.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Nancy. I mean, first of all, if you have obsest
compulsive disorder. That is something that does not come and go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That is an.
Speaker 6 (10:37):
Anxiety disorder that you have all the time. And people
with OCD find it comforting to have everything in its place, okay,
And there are variations of that. Some people are more
OCD than others. But never would an OCD person have
(10:57):
moldy food, a mattress on the floor, cigarettes on the
bedside table. That sounds like somebody came in, And that
sounds like somebody came in and took over her home
to me, But that is not an OCD person would
never allow that to happen in their home.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
OCD obsessive compulsive.
Speaker 6 (11:17):
Compuls disorder disorder.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
It is so much.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
More than just being a neat nick. A lot of
people are neat nicks. That does not mean they're OCD.
Explain the difference in a neat nick and someone with OCD.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
There's a vast difference.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
Someone with First of all, like I said, Nancy, OCD
is it's a type of anxiety. Okay. So for someone
with OCD, if something is out of order, it actually
causes them a lot of anxiety. If there's a break
in their routine, if something in their home is is
misplaced a little bit that actually causes that person anxiety,
(11:57):
a neat knick. On the other hand, you like your
home to meet, but it's not going to cause you
a tremendous amount of possibly crippling anxiety if your home
isn't in it's in perfect condition, Okay, but someone with
OCD must, for example, Nancy. Sometimes people with OCD have
(12:19):
different routines and rituals that they have to do, for example,
before they go to bed at night or before they
get out of their car. They have very specific rituals.
Meat nicks do not have rituals.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
Okay, someone that will remain nameless. I watched them get
in the car. I'm like, crank up, leave, but they
sit there and I can see them fidgeting around. And
it wasn't just once, it's every time that person gets
in the car, and there's like a one minute delay
(12:54):
where apparently they're just sitting there and maybe fidgeting with something,
but I can't make it out. You're saying people have
rituals even before they crank up and take off, like you, oh,
please take this right.
Speaker 6 (13:08):
For example, I've had situations where patients have told me
that when they get in the car or out of
the car, they have to turn the radio dial three
times forward and three times back before they put it
on the station that they want to listen to. I've
had people have to touch their handbag a certain amount
(13:28):
of times before they can start the car. All different
kinds of rituals that they're actually called.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Okay, wait a minute, I need to be able to
speak this in understandable language.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Are you talking about like Monk?
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Remember Monk, I love him, But remember Monk, I would
have to like touch every seventy steps on the way home.
And Okay, So now I've got a visual. So this
woman has the same thing that Monk has mon K
the investigator, and that was triggered by the murder of
his wife in the story, This woman echo Lloyd has that.
(14:08):
So it would be a cold day in helerell that
she's gonna have molded food on the counter, the matches
put in front of the TV, trash piles in the floor.
Speaker 6 (14:19):
He wouldn't be able to go to sleep at night
with her house looking like that. There is no way
that if you have OCD, that you could tolerate that
in your home.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Knox go unanswered Mother's Day gifts untouched. Echo, Lloyd's eldest
daughter finds the home a complete mess, but the mom
of four is nowhere in sight. Where is Echo joining
me in All Star panel? But straight back to investigative
reporter Emmy Award winning journalist Charre Honeycutt Scharray, thanks for
(14:56):
being with us. That's quite the dichotomy that her aha
is a complete disarray. She could function that way if
she's truly OCD, which she is, but yet certain she's gone,
but certain very critical items were there.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Explain what they were and where they were.
Speaker 10 (15:16):
As you mentioned, you know, they found the purse under
the nightstand and the ID. And when you think about
you know, if somebody is just going to often leave
their life, that's something that they need and they need
that to function to go anywhere. They're going to need
that when they're making purchases or to especially if you're
leaving your life, you need that ID to start something new.
(15:36):
So the idea that she would leave her purse, she
would not have her medications and things like that, they
just don't make sense. And the way that you described
or you're calling described the home, it doesn't feel like
she was using her own home right we're talking about
someone who is very ocd and has a way and
a routine of doing things.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
Well, if you see.
Speaker 10 (15:57):
Trash piles on the floor, that's not what she would
be doing. So it not only feels like her things
were tampered with, but her home was used while she
probably wasn't there. And so one thing I wanted to
mention about this conversation is where she lives. So she
lives in Edwards, Missouri, which is an extremely rural part
of Missouri. It's out by the Lake of the Ozarks,
(16:20):
and where she actually where her home was, is extremely
in the middle of nowhere. So the idea that someone
is coming to your house and is in your house,
it's not like someone is just walking off the street
and going into your home. Someone would need to know
you live there, and there would need to be a
connection for that person to be there. I can't imagine
(16:41):
someone just coming upon her home and a stranger being
in there because the driveway is so long and so
far to the house, you wouldn't even know the house
was there.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
You know, Shurey Honeycott, you have an incredible track record,
you're an Emmy winner, you're highly regarded, but FYI were
to the wise, US country hicks don't like it when
somebody suggests we're country hicks, like out in the middle
of nowhere, that's somewhere to somebody, Okay, that said, joining me.
(17:12):
Tim Miller a longtime friend and colleague. He is the
founder of Texas Equa Search. He's on a search and
a cold case for a young woman right now, and
he's actually pulled off the search to join us tonight
in the search for Echo Lloyd. Tim Miller, I was
(17:33):
just pulling shry Honeycoff's leg on behalf of all US
country hicks. But Tim, her point is very well taken.
There's a big difference when you go missing from a
place like this with the population of twenty five hundred
in all versus you know, disappearing in the heart of
(17:54):
la or in Manhattan where anybody could have grabbed you.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Likelihood that a stranger.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Showed up and took Echo, that's a very low probability,
Tim Miller.
Speaker 12 (18:08):
Well, I think you're right. And I actually met with
two detectives with Missouri State Police and we spent several
hours together. They gave me a lot of maps, a
lot of information, and they've got an area of real
interest in the case, and we're going to go up
there and look this area over, and then right when
(18:28):
vegetation starts growing, we're going to go up there and
do the search. But I think we've got some pretty
good information. You know, it's been a while since she's
been missing, and we always say when we go into this,
no matter what resource we bring, there this small chance
that we're going to get located. But if we don't
(18:49):
do anything, there's no chance. But you know, Nancy, I am.
I'm pretty optimistic that she is findable with the information
that we've got.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Tim Miller, who was just in this jurisdiction in Missouri Edwards,
Missouri or Warsaw to be more specific, Tim Miller, when
you say an area of interest and you're headed back
to continue the search in depth, can you share with
us the area of interest which you will be searching.
Speaker 12 (19:22):
Well, you know, this area does have it's about twelve
hundred acres. I think we've got it maybe narrowed down
to maybe two hundred acres of him. You know, I
don't want to put too much stuff out there to
make a possible person of interest. You know, what's going
to be happening.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
So you have an area of interest. I wasn't expecting
you to say it was two hundred square acres. That's
a very vast area of interest.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
How will you search that? I send with drones, with dogs,
with horses, with ATVs.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
How would you go about searching a two hundred acre
area of interest?
Speaker 12 (20:02):
Well, you know what everything that you just mentioned, but
you know what our drone pilot which he actually is,
he's a big educator in it and stuff and developed
so much software that it's unbelievable. And literally, Nancy, we
found a person that was murdered and buried eight years
(20:22):
later because when we flew the drone right when vegetation
started growing, there was a different area, different little color
of different vegetation and everything, and literally dug that body up.
We feel as oh, Etho Lloyd very possibly is buried
at a shallow grave. And so you know what, Yes,
(20:46):
we're going to bring in the ATV, so horses and
ground searchers, the dogs, the drone and everything that we
can possibly break in on this. And again meeting with
the two detail this from the Missouri State Police and
we spent several hours with them. The maps they gave
us the information they gave us. You know, of course
(21:08):
it's going to be a joint venture between US and
Missouri State. Please, and again I've said this one hundred times.
No matter what we bring in, there the small chance
that we're going to get them located. But if we
don't do anything, there's no chance. So you know we're
going to leave from Texas, go to Missouri and take
that small chance. And you know what, Nancy, we did
(21:31):
one seven eight months ago on Kimberley Langwell in Beaumont.
I remember the first time I searched for her in
two thousand and one and we got called twenty five
years later. In four minutes, we found her with ground
penetration units. So you know what, we bring in every
resource that we can bring in. And I always say,
(21:53):
if we leave the results up to God, and you
know what, God has certainly put us in the right
place the right time many times. We're just going to
ask him again.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
You know, Tim Miller, what you said about your drone
operator being so great, you're right, because if your drone
operator could see I'm guessing a more vibrant and intense
shade of green in the vegetation in one area which
would signify newer growth, which would signify disturbed earth.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
And then new growth.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
He spotted that and sure enough, that is where the
victim was.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
That's amazing and Tim.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Miller will never ever brag on himself. Tim Miller is
a crime victim. His daughter was murdered. She went missing
and was murdered.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
He made it his.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
Life's mission to help find missing people. That's who Tim
Miller of Equisearch is.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Now.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
The reason we keep talking about Echo Lloyd's home and
the last time she was seen at this discount store.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Why why do we care so much?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Because we're trying to establish a time line, which is critical.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
In another high profile case.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
The disappearance of a young mom, Heidi Plank. It was
easy to establish her timeline. She's never been found.
Speaker 1 (23:32):
I might add, but we've got a legitimate.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Timeline because she's caught on video walking her dog.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (23:38):
Heidi planks ex husband says the mom left their son's
football game at halftime, seemingly distracted. Security footage from October
seventeenth shows her leaving her West Los Angeles home with
her dog.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
In a bizarre turn.
Speaker 4 (23:51):
Three hours later, in downtown Los Angeles, her dog was
found on the twenty eighth floor of an apartment building plank.
Her silver range rover, her purse, her personal phone, and
computer all gone. Her friend and ex husband say when
she didn't show up to pick up our son, they
knew that something was wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Cigarettes, purse and wallet left behind, but her phone, medications
and car keys are missing. Will these suspicious clues lead
authorities to the missing mom of four?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Where is this gorgeous young MoMA for Echo Lloyd? Now
we get a timeline of sorts. That's where the investigation starts.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
Listen During the search for Echo, police begin a timeline.
On May ninth, Kelsey talked to her mother. On the tenth,
Kelsey decides to surprise her mother, but her car is
not at the home. A few witnesses came forward saying
they believe they had seen Echo at a Walmart in Warsaw, Missouri.
Authorities find a receipt with the same May tenth date
in her shower. The police investigation revealed that on May fourteenth,
(24:57):
Echo was possibly spotted at a nearby gas station trying
to buy a cell phone. According to reports, she tried
to pay for it with a check, but that was declined.
There has been no other activity on her account or
credit card.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Don't these convenience stores have surveillance video. For Pete's sake,
Charre Honeycutt joining me Emmy Award winning journalists tell me
about those sidings. Because the May fourteen siding is credible
to me because we know she didn't have her cell phone,
so the fact that someone states she was at a
nearby gas station trying to buy a cell phone makes
(25:35):
sense to me. That place is my timeline starting at
May fourteen. She's alive on that day.
Speaker 10 (25:40):
Sure, I think is odd she wanted to buy a
cell phone as well. I just think the purchase is
a little odd. And then when you go back to
talking about, you know, how she was, how things were
found in her home, the idea that there was a
receipt in her bathtub is very odd to me too,
and so I think that the report is credible. I
think that sometimes stores are difficult about giving over that
(26:04):
video or retaining it.
Speaker 11 (26:06):
So I'm not sure if that was part of the
issue as to why we don't know more.
Speaker 10 (26:10):
About it, But I think it does show that there
is a possibility that she was there and shows that
she was alive for that time period, and then unfortunately,
being in such a rural area, it's unclear as to
you know where she was and what was going on
at the time of her actual disappearance.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, there is no way with someone with OCD that
there will be a receipt in her shower, all right,
But when you don't know where to go, you backtrack
and you look at your victim. Who is in the
circle of people around her? Who is Echo Lloyd?
Speaker 13 (26:49):
Listen, Echo Lloyd is going through a divorce. She moved
sixteen miles from her current home to rule Edward, Missouri,
a town with a population of less than twenty five hundred.
Lloyd's ten acre property is a bit.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Secluded population of twenty five hundred that greatly reduces our
suspect pool.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
Listen.
Speaker 4 (27:08):
As Echo Lloyd looks for a place to start the
next chapter of her life, she makes her way to
the Lake of the Ozarks. The property in Edward's, Missouri
is remote. There's a gas station and a post office
and little else. But Kelsey Smith says her mom loves
the quiet of the property and begins making plans for renovations,
cleaning up the landscaping, creating ideas for how she wants
(27:32):
to paint the house, and right there that rolls out
in my mind.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Any potential suicide. We have no evidence of that whatsoever. Agreed, disagree,
doctor Angie. If she is renovating her home and she's
out in the front yard landscaping and coming out bringing
home paint ships, she's planning.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
On a future in this time.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
She's not going to drop the paint rush and go,
you know what, I'm gonna kill myself And no evidence
of where I am. That did not happen to Shurrey
Honeycutt joining us. Shara, tell me about the ex. Do
I suspect the ex? No?
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Not at this juncture.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
That's contrary to everything I ever think as a knee
jerk reaction based on statistics, because statistically, a woman is
kidnapped or harmed or even killed by an ex husband,
a husband, a boyfriend, just some man in her life.
Speaker 1 (28:26):
But that doesn't seem to be the case here, Schara.
Speaker 10 (28:30):
No, from what I understood with the relationships in the family,
she actually had a really good relationship with her ex
husband and they had separated amicably, and she had moved
to this new place to start a new life, and
they were still on very good terms. I spoke a
lot with her daughter, who says she was in very
good terms with her mom as well, and that they
(28:53):
just had a good relationship.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Surey, Honeycutt correct me if I'm wrong, please, But even
with the home and no sign of echo Lloyd, investigators
still tell the family they do not believe there was
any foul play.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
That's what they originally said.
Speaker 10 (29:11):
Part of that has to do with no evidence of
maybe a body or any blood, or any real weapon
or struggle.
Speaker 11 (29:21):
I think the way the.
Speaker 10 (29:22):
House is described, it sounds like it's messy. The police
don't necessarily know her behaviors at that time when they
first start on the case, and so I think at
the beginning maybe they.
Speaker 11 (29:34):
Felt like there was no foul play.
Speaker 10 (29:36):
But I think the circumstances of the home definitely lead
to a different pathway for this case.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Wendy Patrick explain to me, why is it when a
woman goes missing, there's no foul play, She's just probably off.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
With her boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
Remember Stacy Peterson, the fourth wife of then cop Drew Peterson.
He was later convicted in the murder of his wife,
Kathleen Savio.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
She was found drowned in.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
A bone dry bathtub. It was real access she's covered
in bruises.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
I hate when you slip in the tub and your
whole body's covered in bruises and the tub is completely dry.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Hay when that happens. So it was.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Determined then based on the husband's word, that she had
made off with a boy friend. It happens over and
over and over, or mommy just wants some me time.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
That's total byes. Why is that always the knee jerk reaction. Yeah,
it's a shame.
Speaker 5 (30:39):
Sometimes many people might think it's an easy reaction, but
there is no way it fits this fact pattern.
Speaker 6 (30:44):
Nancy. That house was a.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Crime scene in every sense of the word because it
was so contrary to the OCD that Echo had. There
is no way she would be sharing space with somebody
that would leave the house in disarray like that. Not
to mention the amount of DNA that was likely left behind,
but that excuse, even though it's unfairly used in other cases,
does not fit in any way, shape or form in
(31:07):
this case. And that is one of the ways in
which this case is distinct and might many might think
more solvable. Given the amount of evidence that was left
at that what sounds like, as you mentioned the beginning
of a prime timeline.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Take a listen to the then share of Eric Knox.
Speaker 7 (31:24):
We're not sure what happened to you because we're domats Is.
Speaker 6 (31:28):
We don't even know where.
Speaker 12 (31:29):
You should look for him.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
You have nothing, Wait, you don't know where to look?
Ask Tim Miller.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
That's from our friends at Paramount Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Where is a gorgeous young mom? Echo Lloyd straight out
to Tim Miller, joining us, founder and director of ECUA
(31:58):
Search on a mine should define missing people?
Speaker 1 (32:01):
What about it, Tim Miller?
Speaker 2 (32:03):
The fact that at the get Go Ellie law enforcement
said nothing suggests foul play. In my mind, everything suggests
foul play.
Speaker 12 (32:12):
Yeah, you don't fancy. I experienced that when I reported
Laura listened and they said, do you know a go
home wait by or Ford Pol. Laura ran away. I
knew she did. I could get no help, zero none.
Seventeen months later, her body is found, along with three
other girls, of all of them murdered, still on solved.
(32:32):
So you know what, We've worked with some very very
great law enforcement agencies in the past, and we've worked
with something that are very very incompetent. And again, even
in today's world, subaly cases that we get out in
a very beginning, they said, oh, you know what, this
person had a problem. They was doing drugs, They was
doing this, and you know it's it makes my blood boil.
(33:00):
I hear that.
Speaker 2 (33:01):
You know, Tim Miller is speaking about his daughter who
disappeared at age sixteen.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
He was told, oh, she's a runaway. She wasn't. She
had been.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Kidnapped and murdered, along with other girls found at the
same burial site. To doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist doctor Angie,
I don't want to get on a slapbox about this
because it's neither here nor there in finding echo. But
I do believe that it's misogynistic women haters that say, oh,
(33:34):
either she's quote a bitch or a quote hope. She
had so many enemies, she didn't get along with anybody,
she's hysterical blah blah blah okay, or she's a big hoe.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
She's out with her new boyfriend.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
You know, there's nothing wrong. Both are so inaccurate, Both
are so demeaning, and I hear it over and over.
She's hysterical translation, she ran off a committed toy I
and a fit of some sort.
Speaker 1 (34:02):
Let's blame it on PMS. Let's just throw it all in.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
Or she's out with a new boyfriend and leaving her children.
That's never true, doctor Angie. Have you noticed maybe they
should teach that at police academy?
Speaker 6 (34:14):
Oh my god, Nancy, it makes me so bad, and
you know, it also reminds me of what happened to
Babby Patito right before she was killed. So why doesn't
this change, Nancy? How can we inform the police officers
that are out there doing these jobs and I know
they've worked very hard, but then time, precious time is lost.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
To talk to talk doctor Angie, you had the nail
on the head and ps no o MG on crime stories. Okay, no,
we don't say that on crime stories.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
But that said, then a major development, What, if anything,
does it mean? Listen?
Speaker 14 (34:56):
The next door neighbor and close friend of Echo Lloyd,
who did not help search for his friend, lives with
his grandfather. Two weeks after Echo Lloyd disappears, the grandfather
is found in the basement of his home suffering from
a broken back. He's taken to a hospital where he
succumbs to his injuries days later. According to Kelsey Smith,
while removing the grandfather from the basement, Echo Lloyd's missing
prescription medication and keys are found in the basement of
(35:18):
her neighbor's home. According to Smith, police did not get
a search warrant for the house before turning the investigation
over to the Missouri State Highway Patrol Missing Persons Clearinghouse.
Ben County Sheriff Eric Knox said of the Echo Lloyd case,
she is absolutely missing without a trace. Investigator's report, There's
been no use of her cell phone or bank cards
since she was reported missing, and the pharmacy has confirmed
(35:40):
none of Eckilloyd's necessary medications have been filled since she disappeared.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Shray Honeycutt joining us, who is this neighbor and why
are Echo Lloyd's items, including her missing prescription meds and
her keys found in his place?
Speaker 10 (35:59):
That is an incredible question, Nancy, and one that I
don't have a clear answer to. But what I can
tell you is in talking with Kelsey, she had confided
her mother had confided in her that she had met
this neighbor, they had become friends, and that he had
started to develop a crush on her. That she did
not reciprocate. You know, we were talking about her coming
(36:21):
out of a marriage and wanting to start a new life,
and a boyfriend, especially one that maybe younger than her,
wasn't really what she was looking for at the time,
is what Kelsey had told me. And so this relationship
was a little odd. But at some point I know
that she didn't really want to continue that relationship and
(36:41):
had expressed that.
Speaker 11 (36:42):
To him at some point.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
And in my mind, there's more disturbing evidence to Barry
Hutcheson joining us twenty six years in law enforcement, now
owner and operator of Very Associates Investigative Services located in
this jurisdiction Marry in my mind, and possibly even more disturbing,
(37:04):
is that he Smith would walk over to Echo's property
and sometimes he would come into her home without knocking.
I mean, if I turned around in my kitchen there's
some guy standing there, I shoot him.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
Oops, don't have a gun, But if I had a gun,
I would shoot him.
Speaker 2 (37:23):
You know.
Speaker 15 (37:23):
One of the things that hasn't been touched on with
this that I know in this case is I find
it's strange that the next door neighbor would have a
key to the house, but the daughter didn't and that
she would have to make it trained that.
Speaker 1 (37:39):
Very odd too, very odd. Indeed, now this guy is
not a suspect.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Just because some people think his behavior is odd does
not make him a suspect.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But Tim Miller, I can't get away.
Speaker 2 (37:53):
I cannot get away from the fact that her meds
and her car keys were in his place.
Speaker 1 (37:58):
Why are they there?
Speaker 12 (37:59):
I think by the time they determined that possibly foul
play was involved, instead of her just leaving on her own, well,
it was literally a cold case before it was a
missing first case. So you know, they had to start
from scratch, and you know, I think they got their
(38:20):
aid dinner Facebook. Bottom line is, I think they would
have looked just a little bit different in the very beginning.
Maybe we wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
To Tim Miller joining me from Texas Equisearch. Tim Miller,
let's take a look at those three working theories. Number one,
the second theory that she saw something in the woods
she shouldn't have seen. Now, that didn't happen. There's not
some nefarious killer out there that happened to me in
the middle of the woods, population twenty five hundred. That
(38:48):
didn't happen. That leaves me two choices of the working theories.
Now you've got the daughter who admits she had a
drug addiction, and it's claimed she had not all our debts,
So am I supposed to believe that because the daughter
had a past a drug addiction, that somebody came and
took or killed echo some revenge. No, that's way too far, feesh.
(39:14):
But what about this neighbor who is not a suspect?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Surey, honeycutt. What about the neighbor?
Speaker 10 (39:21):
That is the number one question everyone wants to know,
you know, did he do it? What was going on
at that time? I think a big piece of that
that is impeding the case is what we talked about earlier,
the inability to really investigate at the time this happened.
A lot of the evidence had sat there for a
(39:42):
long time. And what I will say when I got
involved in this case is that no one was covering
it and the public really wanted to understand what happened.
And I got an overwhelming amount of messages, just knowing
the work that I do, asking me to drive hours
out of my area to cover this case because it
(40:03):
wasn't getting the attention it needed.
Speaker 11 (40:06):
And it still hasn't in my opinion.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
SUI, what can you tell me about the neighbor buying
nine bags of cement just before we think just before
because we don't have a clear timeline just before Echo
goes missing, and when the home was searched they only
found one bag out of nine.
Speaker 11 (40:26):
I would want to know what happened to eight bags
of cement?
Speaker 10 (40:29):
And if you look around that area, I mean it's
an expansive area. In my experience covering cases that have
turned into death investigations or homicides, typically the people are
found very close to home or where they were last seen.
And so I think Tim's work is going to be
(40:49):
very important this coming spring looking around that home, because
we know that people don't go very far from where
they're last seen.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of this young mom, Echo Lloyd, please dial toll
free eight hundred eight seven seven three four five two
repeat eight hundred eight seven seven three four five two.
(41:21):
Nancy Grace signing off, Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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