February 17, 2025 • 44 mins
"Up and Vanished" host Payne Lindsey joins the program to discuss the focus of "Up and Vanished: In The Midnight Sun" - The Disappearance of Florence Okpealuk.
Thirty-three-year-old Florence Okpealuk was last seen on West Beach in Nome, Alaska.
When Blaire could not reach her sister, she posted on Facebook, asking if anyone had seen Florence, and began searching around town. Florence had not been to work or the grocery store, and neither her ex nor her friends had seen or heard from her. Blaire felt she had exhausted all leads when Naomi, a bartender at Board and Trade, messaged her. Naomi said she last saw Florence on her birthday, but a man at the bar claimed he saw Florence on West Beach with a miner the night she did not come home.
Blaire and several family members canvassed West Beach, asking anyone willing to talk if they had seen Florence. Eventually, a man told Blaire he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent around 4 p.m. He asked Blaire to wait while he rummaged inside his tent, then returned with Florence’s socks, shoes, and jacket. Bewildered, Blaire asked where Florence was and why he had her belongings. The man became quiet but insisted he did not bring Florence to West Beach and claimed he found her belongings outside his tent.
An older man in the neighboring tent offered a different account. He said he saw Florence with his neighbor the night before, riding down the beach on an ATV. The ATV did not return until the next morning, but his neighbor was the only rider.
Blaire reported Florence missing at 6:15 p.m. that evening, two days after she last saw her sister.
Payne Lindsey, host of the "Up and Vanished" podcast, traveled to Nome to investigate Florence’s disappearance. Lindsey contacted Naomi, the bartender from Board and Trade, who received a tip from a patron that Florence was last seen on West Beach. Naomi said the man who reportedly saw Florence worked as a freelance gold miner and also drove a taxi for Checkers Cabs. He lived in a tent on West Beach and was known locally as “Oregon John.
- Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Deilah Johnson - friend of Florence, Tribal Resources Director for the Village of Solomon, author of “One of Our Own” available at www.villageofsolomon.org; Facebook: Deilahrj; IG: @deilah_rex; TikTok: @deilahsolomonenwi
- Randolph Rice - Former Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense & Civil Attorney at Rice, Murtha, Psoras, website: ricelawmd.com, IG, FB, X: @ricelawmd
- Angela Arnold - Psychiatrist, Atlanta GA, AngelaArnoldMD.com, Expert in the Treatment of Pregnant/Postpartum Women, Former Assistant Professor of Psychiatry, Obstetrics and Gynecology: Emory University, Former Medical Director of The Psychiatric Ob-Gyn Clinic at Grady Memorial Hospital, Voted My Buckhead’s Best Psychiatric Practice of 2022, 2023 and 2024
- Chris McDonough - Director At the Cold Case Foundation, Former Homicide Detective, Worked over 300 Homicides in 25 year career, Trained the first Native American Homicide Task Force; & Host of YouTube channel, "The Interview Room." Website: www.coldcasefoundation.org/chris-mcdonough
- Payne Lindsey - Podcast Host & Executive Producer of “Up and Vanished,” a true crime podcast about missing persons.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A missing mom's shoes, socks and jacket found, But where's Florence?
Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Missing in Alaska, young mom vanishes in the middle of
the day. Her family on a restless quest for answers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Where is missing mom of Florence? Her disappearance haunting locals. Listen,
We load ourselves supports and take off.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
No Miss.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
One of those unforgettable spots in history.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It sits along the beach of the Baring Sea, just
under the Arctic Circle.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There's a lot of red flags waving, and they're not
choosing to recognize.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That red flags waving is certainly an understatement. That's where
our friend Payne Lindsay's podcast up and vanished The Midnight Sun.
How did the whole thing start?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Listen?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Just a few days after her thirty third birthday, Florence
goes to see her sister Blair at work. It isn't
unusual that Flow ignores Blair for a few hours after
their conversation, but concern grows when Blair learns Florence didn't
come home that night. Over the next two days, Blair
texts and calls Florence dozens of times, but all of
them go unanswered.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know regarding Florence's disappearance. But first straight out
to our friend Payne Lindsey, executive producer of Up and Vanished.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I've got a question, ka.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
When Florence first goes missing, the sister is the one
that raised the alarm. She said it was very uncommon
for Florence to ignore her calls and texts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Is that true?
Speaker 7 (01:54):
That's very true. Yeah, she just fell off the map
completely and that was odd.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Joining us is Aila Johnson, a very close friend of Florence's.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
When the sister.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Says how unusual it was for Florence to ignore calls
and text did you find that to be true as well?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Initially not entirely.
Speaker 8 (02:18):
I kind of thought maybe her phone had died, but
you know, after several days then it was a deep,
true concern.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
De Ailah Johnson joining us, very close friend of Florence.
I'm trying to get a handle on Florence's personality now
she's a mother.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Would she often just vanish for days on end? I
mean so often?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Do Ailah I have her police tell anguished family of friends,
Oh she's at with her boyfriend or her new boyfriend.
There's not one, or she just wants some alone time
away from her children. From what I know of Florence,
I find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Was that her pattern. Would she go off for alone time?
Speaker 8 (03:08):
No, But growing up in the nome geographic location, I
would say that, you know, sometimes people will go out
camping and you don't have reliable connection to communicate with
people that maybe.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Haven't heard from you in a day.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
It's not uncommon for people to maybe kind of be
off grid, especially during that time of year. It's kind
of like the end of the summer, so people want
to try to get out of town as much.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
As they can. So at first it wasn't super.
Speaker 8 (03:40):
Alarming, but I know that a lot of people, mostly
the police department, would want to just kind of brush
it off, like it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So d'alla have you ever known Florence to go camping
or hiking ever her children behind where nobody knew how
to reach her.
Speaker 8 (04:03):
No, I mean, she would have given someone a heads up.
This isn't routine for her to just disappear the way
that this had occurred.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So, Deilah, when you state that it wouldn't be uncommon
for people to go hiking or camping, actually it would
be uncommon for Florence to go hiking or camping without
her children, or leave at the very least, leaving them
with no idea where their mother was.
Speaker 9 (04:29):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
How old are the children, may I ask Dihilah.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
She has one daughter who is about to be eleven.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So Deilah, you're referring to her daughter, Aleithia. Did you
ever know of a single time, even once when Florence
left Alithia without knowing where she was not there to
take care of her, and people had to come over
and get the daughter.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
No, never, So Payne Lindsay joining me the star of
up and vanished pain.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I'm trying to get a handle on the beginning of
the timeline, because, as you know, I like to start
all investigations with that. It could be from the last
time a text was received, if that's truly a text
from the victim, or in the oj Simpson case, it
could be where the neighbors hear the dog wailing in
the middle of the night when Nicole Brown was murdered.
(05:30):
So timelines are very tricky, but it seems like all
we've got to go on here, pain is when the
sister realized after a period of time that Florence wasn't responding.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Would you agree that's where we start the timeline.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Yeah, the timeline is money because it took several days
to realize that she's not responding, and then days have
gone by from likely the moment that she went missing.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Joining me is the director.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Of the Cold Case Foundation and more important, former homicide
detective who has worked over.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Three hundred homicides.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
By the way, he trained the very first Native American
homicide task Force. He is the star of the YouTube
channel The Interview Room. Chris mcdonnah, thank you for being
with us. Explain in simple terms why establishing the exception
of the timeline is so important in cracking a missing
person or homicide case.
Speaker 10 (06:27):
Yo, Nancy, So, what we would call that is an
initial victimology. So what we want to do is kind
of create this fact pattern in relationship to her life.
And we know for a fact that she has a
daughter at the time who's very young, and we can
take a look at that timeline of how she handled
(06:49):
that child and if there were any anomalies. We're raising
the girl, and then we get to that muddy timeline
that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Chris McDonough I said, terms no offense.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
We got to get out of inside ball and focus
on why the timeline is so important. I see it
like this, and tell me if I'm wrong. If I
could place her alive on a certain day, then I'm
not looking at who she was with the day before
or the week before. I need to know where she
was last seen, who she was with, where she was going.
(07:26):
I need to find pings on her phone starting then
that's where you start the investigation. Who was she with,
what was she doing? Was she in her car somebody
else's car? You can't spin your wheels in the wrong timeline.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Would you agree with that much?
Speaker 8 (07:45):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (07:46):
Yeah, I agree one hundred percent with everything you just said,
because that's the starting point that you can move forward,
and quite frankly, you can go backwards as well.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Take a listen to Crimalline investigator Sydney Sumner.
Speaker 11 (07:58):
Unable to get in touch with their sister, Blair posts
a Facebook asking if anyone seen Florence and starts looking
around town. Florence hasn't been to work or the grocery
store in neither a Lithia's father or her friends have
seen or heard from her. Whair feels like she's exhausted
all of her leads. When Naomi, a bartender at bored
In Trade, messages Blair, Naomi says she last saw Florence
(08:21):
on her birthday, but that a man in the bar
says he saw Florence on West Beach with a minor
the night she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Let's talk about the bar, joining me and you know
him well, our friend Payne Lindsey star up up and vanished,
who has focused on the disappearance of Florence. Tell me
about the bar. Why do so many of our cases
start at a bar?
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Pain It sure does seem like it Innaom. This is
one of the few gathering places. Gnome is not a
huge place, but this bar is super old. It's been
there a long time and is right there on Front Street,
right near the water right downtown, a popular spot for
locals to go and even tourists to go. And she
(09:06):
was seen there and we know that because I went
myself with my team and I talked to patrons. I
also talked to the bartender who works there and she
recalls seeing her, and people have multiple witnesses have placed
her having been there before.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Leaving that night.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can you tell me, Payne, was she there to meet
a friend? Was she there with girlfriends? So many things
can go wrong at a bar. What do we know
about what occurred at the bar? Did anyone notice anything
at all out of the ordinary?
Speaker 7 (09:42):
Having talked to Florence's sister, it seemed like during the
time of her disappearance, when she would have been at
this bar, she was kind of going through her own
personal life struggles and was you know, expressing that to
other people around her friends Fai and she was there
by herself, but we know that she was also surrounded
(10:04):
by other individuals, all men who are gold miners, who
are essentially traveling through and they go in and they
go out and aren't from Nome, but are therefore Oh no.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Pain, you're telling me they're transience.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Absolutely okay, you're giving me a chill down my spine
yet again, Pain, You're famous for giving people chills down
their spines. Because I'm thinking of a case that you
and I have both covered out of Florida, Jennifer KESSI
because Kessie goes missing, You go into her place. The
(10:44):
parents go into her place the next day when she
doesn't answer calls, just like in this case, they find
where her clothes are laid out to go to work
the following morning, the showers actually still damp.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No sign of Jennifer. Where do transience fit into this?
You know where?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Because surrounding her condo was a lot of development down
in Florida and a lot of transience building the condos,
I mean, when they're gone, they're gone. Nobody has their name,
they're LKA last known addresses by.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Could they be witnesses?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Could they be perpetrators? They could be either of those.
So you're telling me many people in the bar that
night are a mail and don't fight with me about
this pain. We all know that the perp, if there
is one, is likely a male. Statistically, don't start with
women can kidnap.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And murder too. I know that, But I'm telling you
that's not what happened. So she's at a bar pain.
According to you, you've been to the bar that night.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
She's surrounded by a lot of guys, and many of
them are transient miners. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
Pain, lindsay, that's absolutely correct, and it was a recipe
for disaster because that's the last known place.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Hey, Pain, when you went in the bar. Tell me
about the bar. It's what's it like? I mean, honestly,
it's a super small place. It's old, it's dusty. You
have some locals in there who seem like they spend
you know, half their days in there.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
You have a couple random people who are visiting, and
it seems like a consistent bar clientele that circles in
and out.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Pain. I like that part because, yeah, that means if
you see the same people like Cheers, right, yea Cheers,
you know everybody, and they would know her and they
could give me some leads.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Right, you'd think, so yeah, unless that person was harboring
a secret.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know, Pain, I've come to be very suspicious when
you say things like you'd think, so, okay, who is Florence.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Let's look at that. Who is Florence?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can looking at her at her standard routine, her personality
even give me a clue. Listen Florence's flow.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
Akpilook is the youngest of seven siblings, raised in the
small village of Wales, Alaska. Florence learns to practice subsistence,
just as inu ancestors lived off the land.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But when Florence.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Learns she is expecting a baby girl, she decides to
move about one hundred miles south to the larger city
of Nome so her daughter has better access to healthcare
and education.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Her daughter her whole world.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
She's even willing to maybe one hundred miles away for
a better life for her daughter.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
What more do we know?
Speaker 12 (13:36):
Lawrence gets a job working in the hospital with Norton
Sound Health Corporation and is a wonderful mother to a Lithia,
now six years old. Florence is well known and well
liked in Nome and becomes close with siblings that live
in Nome, a brother and a sister, Blair, who is
now expecting a baby of her own. Florence has plenty
of friends to celebrate with her for her birthday, stopping
in at Board of Trade, one of the oldest bars
(13:58):
in town.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Authorities on a desperate mission to find a missing Alaskan mom.
As the FBI joins.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
The search, Blair reports Florence missing at six fifteen PM
that evening, two days after she last saw her sister
two days after the report, searches begin for the young mom.
Nome PD and dozens of volunteers go up and down
West Beach searching for any sign of Florence. FBI agents
and canine units eventually join the search, and one more
(14:32):
piece of Florence's clothing is discovered, but there's no other
leads on Florence.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Ocpolok socks and ses left behind of a missing mom.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But where is Florence?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
You may be.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Sitting down, but you may need to lay down.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Wrote what you're about to hear the working theory of
the local PD. Brace yourself, listen well.
Speaker 12 (14:54):
There are many theories on what happened to Florence Akpelock.
Nome PD has released very few details on their investigation.
Their only official theory is a bear attack and they
simply haven't found the body. The public has very little
trust in the department, which struggles remain staffed. Chief William
Crockett agrees to an interview with Payne Lindsay, but isn't
in the office at the agreed upon time, then fails
(15:16):
to return any calls afterwards. The FBI assisted with searches
shortly after Florence's disappearance, but agents now direct anyone looking
for information on her case back to nome PD.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Okay, let me understand this. The working theory is that
Florence died of a bear attack. Well, let me get
straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Randolph Rice, joining
us former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney, no stranger to
a courtroom, and what that means is he knows evidence, really, Randolph,
(15:51):
So you're going to defend a case like this, And
the theory is what that mommy took off for socks
before the bear ate her.
Speaker 13 (15:58):
Yeah, this looks like the non police apartments attempt to
sort of push this under the rug because they can't
seem to put together the evidence that they need to
ultimately say what happened to Florence. You know, nobody leaves
the scene with their socks and their shoes and their
clothes just it doesn't make sense, which leans to the
probability that this was foul play, and therefore the known
police department needs to follow that foul play trail of evidence.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Somebody needs to put a fire under their rear.
Speaker 8 (16:24):
End.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Angela Arnold, excuse me, doctor Angela Arnold joining us renowned
psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, whose expertise is focusing
on the mental and emotional welfare of women. Doctor Arnold,
do you ever get tired of police investigators? Ellie in
(16:48):
general law enforcement? And I am former law enforcement. Okay,
so this is a bitter peal for me to swallow.
When a woman goes missing, they say, oh, she's having
a time. She is with her whoever, you can fill
in the blank. Ex boyfriend, lover. What hold up in
some hotel having a great time while her daughter's sitting
(17:09):
at home trying to find something to eat.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But here they really take the cake, doctor Angela.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
They say, a bear ate her. I mean, if I
were her family, I would want to go burn down
the police department a bear. Yeah.
Speaker 14 (17:23):
And you know, Nancy in they're wasting time, And everybody
knows how important those those first minutes and days are
in finding someone that has gone missing. Why don't they
If that's all they have to offer to the situation,
then they just need to keep their mouths shut, because Nancy,
that is the least helpful thing that anyone could have
(17:44):
said in this Okay, So, now this poor woman has
been missing, any kind of evidence is gone, and all
the police can come up with.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
By the minute.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yes, hey, the evidence is evaporating. Pain. Lens that you
heard what doctor Angela Arnold had to say. Pain. Is
this really a working theory?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
No wonder the share of hid?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What was he under his desk when you went.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
To interview, he was back there hiding somewhere. I mean,
I just wish that they would shoot me straight. The
job of just talking about this case with a journalist
isn't that complicated, But they made it complicated because I
think that they're embarrassed so pain.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Hey, guys, if you don't know, Payne Lindsay, got to
listen to his podcast Up and Vanished. He was incredible
on the Tara Grinstead case. And here's his new one
in the Midnight Sun, referring to, of course this case
in no pain. How can they say with a straight
face a bear did it?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
Well, they don't say it with a straight face.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
They hide their face.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Actually, if you try to ask them that question in person,
they'll say, yeah, i'll meet you tomorrow and then they'll
dodge you. I don't know how anyone.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Could say that with a straight face.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
Bears don't eat jeans and shoes and cell phones and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That's ridiculous, Paine. I'm sorry I have to correct you
on air, but this was a very picky bear.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
He took off her shoes and socks. He didn't eat them, right.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean how they can say this with a straight face.
Of course, as Payne Lindsay accurately points out, they don't
say it with a straight face. They hide when they
say things like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
A bear ate her.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Deilah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence'silah,
did you hear this wacky zany theory that a bear
ate her? Unfortunately?
Speaker 8 (19:44):
I hear that as a resolution to several missing people,
because it seems as though that's a really easy way
to put a resolution on any missing person in our area.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Well, Deilah Johnson is exactly correct. A bear eight fill
in the blank seems to be the go to for
local law enforces. This would be laughable if a mother
wasn't missing, and I suspect very strongly that she has
been murdered. Does the name Joseph Baldaras ring a bell?
(20:23):
If not, it will now listen.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Joseph Baldaras works a gnome as the law clerk and
is an avid outdoorsman who loves hiking, running, and fishing
out in the country. Joseph always responds to his fiancee,
Meghan's text as quickly as possible, but Saturday morning, Joseph
stops answering her. When Joseph doesn't show up for work
Monday morning, his family knows something is seriously wrong. That afternoon,
(20:49):
Joseph's truck is found backed into a pullout forty four
miles from town. Searches turn up nothing, and Joseph's roommate
is caught lying to police about his whereabouts Friday and
on Saturday night, but authorities truck is disappearance up to
a bear attack.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Okay, apparently the bear can drive because the bear backed
the victim's vehicle into a pullout.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And there's more.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Take a listen to our friends at ktv F.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
A search dog unit alerted to bowl there is sent
about a mile down the road from his truck, but
lost the trails soon after. Search pilots reported a noticeable
amount of bear activity in the area, but his family
suggested that they suspect fellow play pain.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Help me, How can this stand?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
How can one case after the next be attributed to
quote bear activity. There's no evidence. You recall you and
I have discussed me to many times the case of
Susanne Morphew, where it's claimed that a while animal dragged
her off. There's no sign of animal activity. There's no blood,
(21:56):
there's no drag marks which you would find if this
had happened. There is no half eaten carcass, there are
no bones, there's no other clothing, nothing to suggest that happened.
In any of the three cases we're talking about right now,
specifically with.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
Florence, it's just an easy cop out response. I mean,
the thing is, like you said, if this is their theory,
usually a theory is backed by some sort of information
that supports that. I would entertain the bear theory if
there was any evidence at all that suggested that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
But there isn't.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
There's nothing, So.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
That's just a blanket excuse answer for basically, in other words,
I don't know, or we screwed.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Up Florence our pe luck. Last scene leaving a tent
on Alaska's West Beach, her family desperate for answers.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Leaving a tent on the beach, Well, that's odd because
when does it say she was last seen at a bar?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Or was she with a ba Listen.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
Payne Lindsay, host of the Up and Vanish podcast, travels
to Nome to investigate Florence's disappearance. Lindsay gets in contact
with Naomi, the bartender from Bored and Trade, who got
the tip from a patron that Florence was last seen
on West Beach. Naomi says the man came to know
him as a freelance gold miner, but also drove a
taxi in town for Checkers Cabs. The man resided in
(23:24):
a tent on West Beach. Naomi only knew him as
Oregon John to a very.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Dear friend, Florence's Jailah Johnson, author of One on One Dailah,
is that common that the transient miners that come to
them live in tent villages?
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Yes, the entire summer. The population of No Malaska fluctuates
probably two thousand during the summer, so that people think
that they're going to know him to get rich.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, that's not helpful at all, Dilah. I'm not saying
it's not true. I know it to be true what
you just said. But to Chris McDonough joining me veteran
homicide detective, not helpful at all that there is an
entire transient village and that's not the first place police
(24:19):
went or sheriffs went. Everyone else in that bar, according
to Payne Lindsay, is likely a local except for the transience. Okay,
So when you throw into a situation Chris mcdonoughh one variable,
and that being transience at the bar that night, that's
(24:39):
where you go. The rest of the world doesn't understand
that this is normal. For no and other mining areas.
People flood in for a mining season and then they disappear,
just like transience disappeared from the Jennifer Kessey scene.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
They're there for the work.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And then they leave, and once they leave, you'll never
find them again.
Speaker 9 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:06):
Absolutely, And that point of contact I e. Where these
old transients go, I E. The bar potentially. But more importantly,
one of the things I want to point out, Nancy,
that you mentioned is there's a witness that says, you know, well,
she was last seen on the beach with a minor
coming out of a tent. Well that individual just put
(25:28):
themselves at the beach watching her come out of a tent.
So that's a huge red flag. If it's the same
guy there, you go, let's start from there.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Man, you are so right, Payne Lindsay joining me, host
of up and Vanas, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance,
even traveling to know to find out what he could
and trying to confront local La who basically hid from him.
So the bartender, the female bartender, Naomi at the Board
(25:59):
and Trade, get's a tip that Florence's last seen on
West Beach. What else did she learn?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Pain?
Speaker 7 (26:07):
She learned that she was with a specific individual who
she knew by a nickname, a pseudonym. Oregon John was
his name.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What can you tell me about clothing? About Florence's clothing
being found?
Speaker 7 (26:23):
So, Oregon John was a minor like several others who
were camped out on this area of West Beach, and
at nighttime they would kind of have parties and stuff there,
and they were all transient people. Flows items, her personal items,
her clothing was found outside of this man's tent. And
(26:46):
when someone goes missing and you have her things in
your possession, it would be common sense to ask this
person what the hell happened? But that was never done
in an official capacity. In this case, pay.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
When you say her items are you talking about the
socks as we've heard about, Are you talking about her
bra and underwear?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
What was found?
Speaker 7 (27:10):
There's mixed conflicting reports of that because initially it was
FLOE's family who was out there searching, and they're the
ones who discovered that any of her items at all
were in this man's possession, but he willingly gave it
over to the police and to the family. The fact
(27:30):
that he has anything of hers at all is strange
because that's the last place she was. Why would she
not leave with her clothes on?
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Blair and several family members canvas West Beach, asking anyone
who will talk to them about Florence. Eventually, a man
says he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent a round
four pm. The man asks Blair to wait a moment
and rummages around inside his tent. He returns with Florence's socks, shoes,
and jacket. Bewildered, Blair asked where Florence is and why
(28:00):
he has her things. The man seems to clam up,
but insists he did not bring Florence to West Beach
and he found her belongings outside his tent.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Where is Florence? Uck pluck, the mom last seen leaving
a gold miner's tent before vanishing into the Alaskan wilderness.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
At the bar on the beach in a tent. Then
we hear disturbing reports about a very eerie phone call
made by Florence that night.
Speaker 11 (28:34):
Listen Gnome Pedi also follows up with the man who
gave Blair some of Florence's clothing. The man gives cops
the same story of finding her belongings outside his tent
and turns over one more item, Florence's cell phone. Law
enforcement never publicly divulges if anything found on the phone
provided new leads, but according to a local with friends
(28:54):
on the search and rescue team, Florence made a troubling
call to a friend that night, saying, I'm in the
bushes with some people. They're passing something around and I
don't feel safe.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
With my close friend of Florence's, her confidant Deilah Johnson,
author of one of our own Danna, thank you for
being with us. What do you know about this phone
call made by Florence?
Speaker 8 (29:19):
That it's terrifying that it does kind of provide more
than just speculation on what maybe had occurred, that evening to.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Payne Lindsay, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance. Payne, what
do we know about the call? Who did she call?
And how do you decipher what she said? She was clearly.
Speaker 7 (29:42):
Scared, she was in a state of distress, and she
names being with multiple individuals. Now I know these people's names.
I have not publicly stated all of them because sometimes
I'm still talking to but collect actively. Here you have
a group of men who were the last people to
(30:04):
see Florence alive and then she simply vanishes. These people
need to be questioned by law enforcement. The fact that
they haven't been is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, it's like the Terry Grinsday case all over again. Well,
can you tell me about another conflicting story? Pain a
story that another witness states that Florence was with his
neighbor the night before, driving on the beach on an
ATV all terrain vehicle, and then the witness sees the
(30:39):
neighbor returning and Florence wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
It was just the neighbor.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
Bottom line is you can sit here and look at
all the different conflicting stories and theories. When you whittle
it all down, which I've done my best to do here.
Speaker 15 (30:55):
What stays true is that she was at the bar,
then she left and went to West Beach, no matter
how she got there, and she has never been seen
since then.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Do you believe those witnesses pain?
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I believe that the timing of everything may not be perfect, right.
I think that the bottom line is she was there.
There's physical evidence that she was there. Her stuff is there,
so we know for the fact that she was there
and people saw her correct and it was outside of
a specific tint, not just any tent.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We know whose tint it was. Why do you have
her stuff?
Speaker 7 (31:33):
I don't have any missing person's stuff outside of my tent.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
To make matters even more heartbreaking. In addition to what Payne,
Lindsay accurately points out that none of these witnesses have
been questioned, much less under oath. Many of them gone
dispersed at the end of the season. The family, they're
the ones that are out searching for Florence. Listen.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
After two weeks with no leads from West Beach, law
enforcement agencies suspend their searches. Florence's family returns to beach
every day for eight months, refusing to give up on Florence,
but felt that someone didn't want them searching there. Family
members have several videos of two men in a black
truck following them as they search along the beach. In
one incident, the passenger sticks a gun out of the
(32:20):
window and fire shots in the air. Nome PD seems
to brush off their concerns and ask the family to
back off and let them do their job.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Payne lindsay, in addition to the time that the local ELI,
I guess the sheriff didn't show up for an interview.
It's an eerie reminder for me the Natalie Holloway case.
Beth Twitty and I went back, as you know, to
Aruba to try to scare up some more leads, and
(32:49):
it was there we drove by a structure pain and
she said, yeah, I sat in there for five hours
waiting to speak to the chief of police. They told
me he was at the barber shop. They told me this.
They told me that after five hours, he walks out,
not realizing she's still sitting there rubbing his stomach because
(33:10):
they had just brought him food so he wouldn't have
to see her.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
He ate in his office and then ran into her.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I mean that sounds like what's happening now with them
ducking you. As a matter of fact, you're not the
only one he's ducking.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Listen pain.
Speaker 11 (33:27):
Months into the search for Florence, Aunc Piollok, her best
friend to Aila, and sister Blair hold a march for
missing and murdered Indigenous people through downtown Nome, ending in
a local genesium for several speakers to highlight their loved ones.
While Blair speaks expressing concern for the lack of police
investigation through heart wrenching sobs. The Nome PD chief makes
(33:49):
an appearance, shocking the crowd, but the chief isn't there
for the event. He calmly walks past the crowd to
the gym equipment for his workout.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Geolo Johnson tell me what.
Speaker 9 (34:01):
That was A.
Speaker 8 (34:03):
I mean, when we gather to support and honor any
mmi w G or m MIP individual as natives, you know,
we it's a It's already a challenging time because we
are having to honor those that aren't with us anymore,
and a lot of the time there's a lot of
systemic injustice. But when we were specifically honoring managing Florence Socpiollock,
(34:28):
and then we also noticed that the chief is there
for a workout. That was also just heartrenching for us,
because we would love.
Speaker 9 (34:40):
To have.
Speaker 8 (34:42):
The entire community, all law enforcement, search and rescue, all
community leaders, all people within the community come together because
we all it's an isolated area, and so if we
can all help one another and support one another, I
think there would be there would be better relationships, and
the lack of trust probably wouldn't be such a stain
(35:05):
on the community.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Members PAYLUSA just having a horrible time understanding the sheriff.
While family and friends are out there bringing awareness to
Florence's disappearance, he walks up like he's going to the
vigil and it just keeps walking and goes to the
gym to work out.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I mean, come on, bro, even if giving him the
benefit of the doubt, that is just the biggest lack
of awareness I've ever seen. Clearly, you do not care
about this case. Clearly, if you didn't know this was happening,
you're not actively investigating it. All that tells me is
that hand over the damn case file then, because you're
(35:45):
not doing anything about it and you're comfortable being rude
in public and sending this strange message to people who
are fighting for justice right here out in the open
in your own town.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Take a listen to up and banished the midnight Sun.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
There we are.
Speaker 16 (36:04):
He took a beautiful person from this earth. I hope
you feel horrible and you feel guilty. I love you.
Speaker 11 (36:13):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
There's actual facts that need to be run to ground,
that need to be looked into because they're very.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Suspicious crime stories with Nancy Grace. Who is this so
called Oregon John, his moniker that was last scene with Florence.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Well, this is what we've learned about him.
Speaker 11 (36:45):
It turns out Oregon John has ninety three arrests in Gnome.
The charges include everything from disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, harassment,
probation violation, and cruelty to animals to theft's assaults and
two rapes. Oregon John appears to be very dangerous, and
with John having Florence his socks, shoes, jacket, and cell phone,
(37:09):
he may very well be the last person to see her.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Pay Lindsay joining us, who has spent so many months
investigating Florence's disappearance.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Where is he now?
Speaker 7 (37:22):
I know exactly where he is I'm not going to
say it on live air right now because mostly because
you have a lot of listeners and viewers, and so
do I. I don't want the Good Samaritans to go
spook this guy anymore. But I'm in communication with them,
and I have maintained that he has questions that need answers,
(37:46):
and everything points back to Oregon. John. You can dive
down a million rabbit holes, but you must explain why
he had her things. And look at who we're talking
about here. Ninety three and offenses, rape, cruelty to animals.
These aren't petty offenses. This is a big This paints
(38:09):
a character of somebody who is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Between him walking free with ninety three offenses and the
shriff hiding under his desk when you try to interview him.
Chris mcdonnad joining me, veteran homicide detective and star of
the Interview Room on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Chris.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
In any other universe other than Nome, Alaska, this guy
would be alone in a jail cell under the jail,
but instead he's out free having long chats with Payne Lindsay.
Speaker 10 (38:40):
Yeah, and he's dangerous, And the fact that this guy's
an apex predator is what we'll call him. And I
think if they took cadaver dogs within probably fifty yards
of that tent, they they may really want to focus
very clearly in that particular geographic type of profile.
Speaker 9 (39:00):
And by the way, he hasn't stopped.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Chris, please spare me any evidence that would have been near.
That tent is long gone. It's on the beach number one.
Speaker 9 (39:11):
Except for except for except for her body.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes, yes, but I guarantee you the body is.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
He's he's not taking a book.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Okay, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
And another thing I'd like to point out, this is
by far the first time that someone disappears in Nome,
and usually they blame it on a bear.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
But take a listen to this.
Speaker 17 (39:32):
Case brought a greater accountability to the police department in
the city of Nome. You now have a records management
system and it'll be a little bit harder for a
police officer to do it. Owens was able to do
to the city of Nome and to the known police department.
Speaker 16 (39:57):
So we thought, hey, I wonder if always picked up
a gun from the HEAVI and slacker, they could always
return it, presumably so nobody would know send it to
Bob Sham at the crime lab and like a eighty
ninety percent match somewhere in there. So we're fairly confident
that we had the right gun.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
So many people missing out of Nome, Alaska accounted for.
That's where our friends at Oxygen Payne lindsay, is Florence's
case going to end up like all the others out
of known know where there is no resolution and they
end up just saying bear attack. No, it's not.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Mostly because of people like Deila in the community and
our team and you keeping this case alive. The bottom
line is I try to talk to local police. They
didn't want to. They're not going to be able to
help me anyways. I bet you their case file is
literally a paragraph on a page. They haven't done anything actively.
(40:57):
We don't need them to help us. The bottom line
is at this point, based on their history, I mean
a known police officer killed a woman one time, they
don't have a good track record here. Someone from the
state agency or even the FBI, because they do this
in small towns like this in Alaska, needs to step
(41:18):
in and look at this objectively and say, hey, let's
try to figure this out. There's a lot of red
flags waving, but they're doing nothing about it. If anything,
they're hindering journalists like myself from uncovering more truth.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
You know, you mentioned one of the la they are
actually being responsible for a disappearance. That was Sonya Ivanoff
that we were just discussing. Who vanishes but pain there
are so many others as you are uncovering guys his
podcast Amazing up and vanish.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
This is the Midnight Sun.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Many people attribute pain to cracking the case of Terara Grinstead,
and I pray to God this case will also be cracked.
Dailah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence's,
her little girl still wanting mommy. I don't want Florence's
(42:18):
case to just be another statistic in No Alaska where
they end up a year from now going oh yeah
close case bear did it me?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Neither?
Speaker 8 (42:30):
And I'm so grateful for all of the platforms available
to raise awareness around this case, because oftentimes it is
not well covered in the news and in any media.
So it has been wonderful because I know that law
enforcement feels the pressure, and there has been a lot
of tension within the community based on a lot of
(42:53):
the talk around town now, and I think that it
has brought a lot of other conversations where previously community
members were nervous to speak about this, and now it's
becoming more of a comfortable conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of Florence or about so called Oregon John, I
beg you dial nine zero seven four four three five
two six ' two repeat nine zero seven four four
three five.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Two six ' two.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
If you want to make a change, contact the Governor's
office in Alaska. Do they not know that Gnome law
enforcement blame one disappearance after the next on bear attacks?
Speaker 1 (43:44):
How can that stand?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
How can the governor show his face number nine zero
seven two six nine fifty one hundred, call him by name?
Greg Taylor. We waked as justice unfolds God willing in
the disappearance of Florence. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
A missing mom's shoes, socks and jacket found, But where's Florence?
Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank
you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Missing in Alaska, young mom vanishes in the middle of
the day. Her family on a restless quest for answers.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Where is missing mom of Florence? Her disappearance haunting locals. Listen,
We load ourselves supports and take off.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
No Miss.
Speaker 5 (00:38):
One of those unforgettable spots in history.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
It sits along the beach of the Baring Sea, just
under the Arctic Circle.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
There's a lot of red flags waving, and they're not
choosing to recognize.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
That red flags waving is certainly an understatement. That's where
our friend Payne Lindsay's podcast up and vanished The Midnight Sun.
How did the whole thing start?
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Listen?
Speaker 6 (01:05):
Just a few days after her thirty third birthday, Florence
goes to see her sister Blair at work. It isn't
unusual that Flow ignores Blair for a few hours after
their conversation, but concern grows when Blair learns Florence didn't
come home that night. Over the next two days, Blair
texts and calls Florence dozens of times, but all of
them go unanswered.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of
what we know regarding Florence's disappearance. But first straight out
to our friend Payne Lindsey, executive producer of Up and Vanished.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I've got a question, ka.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
When Florence first goes missing, the sister is the one
that raised the alarm. She said it was very uncommon
for Florence to ignore her calls and texts.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Is that true?
Speaker 7 (01:54):
That's very true. Yeah, she just fell off the map
completely and that was odd.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Joining us is Aila Johnson, a very close friend of Florence's.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
When the sister.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Says how unusual it was for Florence to ignore calls
and text did you find that to be true as well?
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Initially not entirely.
Speaker 8 (02:18):
I kind of thought maybe her phone had died, but
you know, after several days then it was a deep,
true concern.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
De Ailah Johnson joining us, very close friend of Florence.
I'm trying to get a handle on Florence's personality now
she's a mother.
Speaker 1 (02:40):
Would she often just vanish for days on end? I
mean so often?
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Do Ailah I have her police tell anguished family of friends,
Oh she's at with her boyfriend or her new boyfriend.
There's not one, or she just wants some alone time
away from her children. From what I know of Florence,
I find that very hard to believe.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Was that her pattern. Would she go off for alone time?
Speaker 8 (03:08):
No, But growing up in the nome geographic location, I
would say that, you know, sometimes people will go out
camping and you don't have reliable connection to communicate with
people that maybe.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Haven't heard from you in a day.
Speaker 8 (03:25):
It's not uncommon for people to maybe kind of be
off grid, especially during that time of year. It's kind
of like the end of the summer, so people want
to try to get out of town as much.
Speaker 9 (03:38):
As they can. So at first it wasn't super.
Speaker 8 (03:40):
Alarming, but I know that a lot of people, mostly
the police department, would want to just kind of brush
it off, like it's no big deal.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
So d'alla have you ever known Florence to go camping
or hiking ever her children behind where nobody knew how
to reach her.
Speaker 8 (04:03):
No, I mean, she would have given someone a heads up.
This isn't routine for her to just disappear the way
that this had occurred.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So, Deilah, when you state that it wouldn't be uncommon
for people to go hiking or camping, actually it would
be uncommon for Florence to go hiking or camping without
her children, or leave at the very least, leaving them
with no idea where their mother was.
Speaker 9 (04:29):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
How old are the children, may I ask Dihilah.
Speaker 8 (04:32):
She has one daughter who is about to be eleven.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
So Deilah, you're referring to her daughter, Aleithia. Did you
ever know of a single time, even once when Florence
left Alithia without knowing where she was not there to
take care of her, and people had to come over
and get the daughter.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
No, never, So Payne Lindsay joining me the star of
up and vanished pain.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I'm trying to get a handle on the beginning of
the timeline, because, as you know, I like to start
all investigations with that. It could be from the last
time a text was received, if that's truly a text
from the victim, or in the oj Simpson case, it
could be where the neighbors hear the dog wailing in
the middle of the night when Nicole Brown was murdered.
(05:30):
So timelines are very tricky, but it seems like all
we've got to go on here, pain is when the
sister realized after a period of time that Florence wasn't responding.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Would you agree that's where we start the timeline.
Speaker 7 (05:46):
Yeah, the timeline is money because it took several days
to realize that she's not responding, and then days have
gone by from likely the moment that she went missing.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Joining me is the director.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
Of the Cold Case Foundation and more important, former homicide
detective who has worked over.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Three hundred homicides.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
By the way, he trained the very first Native American
homicide task Force. He is the star of the YouTube
channel The Interview Room. Chris mcdonnah, thank you for being
with us. Explain in simple terms why establishing the exception
of the timeline is so important in cracking a missing
person or homicide case.
Speaker 10 (06:27):
Yo, Nancy, So, what we would call that is an
initial victimology. So what we want to do is kind
of create this fact pattern in relationship to her life.
And we know for a fact that she has a
daughter at the time who's very young, and we can
take a look at that timeline of how she handled
(06:49):
that child and if there were any anomalies. We're raising
the girl, and then we get to that muddy timeline
that you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Chris McDonough I said, terms no offense.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
I mean.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
We got to get out of inside ball and focus
on why the timeline is so important. I see it
like this, and tell me if I'm wrong. If I
could place her alive on a certain day, then I'm
not looking at who she was with the day before
or the week before. I need to know where she
was last seen, who she was with, where she was going.
(07:26):
I need to find pings on her phone starting then
that's where you start the investigation. Who was she with,
what was she doing? Was she in her car somebody
else's car? You can't spin your wheels in the wrong timeline.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Would you agree with that much?
Speaker 8 (07:45):
Oh?
Speaker 10 (07:46):
Yeah, I agree one hundred percent with everything you just said,
because that's the starting point that you can move forward,
and quite frankly, you can go backwards as well.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Take a listen to Crimalline investigator Sydney Sumner.
Speaker 11 (07:58):
Unable to get in touch with their sister, Blair posts
a Facebook asking if anyone seen Florence and starts looking
around town. Florence hasn't been to work or the grocery
store in neither a Lithia's father or her friends have
seen or heard from her. Whair feels like she's exhausted
all of her leads. When Naomi, a bartender at bored
In Trade, messages Blair, Naomi says she last saw Florence
(08:21):
on her birthday, but that a man in the bar
says he saw Florence on West Beach with a minor
the night she didn't come home.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Let's talk about the bar, joining me and you know
him well, our friend Payne Lindsey star up up and vanished,
who has focused on the disappearance of Florence. Tell me
about the bar. Why do so many of our cases
start at a bar?
Speaker 7 (08:44):
Pain It sure does seem like it Innaom. This is
one of the few gathering places. Gnome is not a
huge place, but this bar is super old. It's been
there a long time and is right there on Front Street,
right near the water right downtown, a popular spot for
locals to go and even tourists to go. And she
(09:06):
was seen there and we know that because I went
myself with my team and I talked to patrons. I
also talked to the bartender who works there and she
recalls seeing her, and people have multiple witnesses have placed
her having been there before.
Speaker 4 (09:24):
Leaving that night.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Can you tell me, Payne, was she there to meet
a friend? Was she there with girlfriends? So many things
can go wrong at a bar. What do we know
about what occurred at the bar? Did anyone notice anything
at all out of the ordinary?
Speaker 7 (09:42):
Having talked to Florence's sister, it seemed like during the
time of her disappearance, when she would have been at
this bar, she was kind of going through her own
personal life struggles and was you know, expressing that to
other people around her friends Fai and she was there
by herself, but we know that she was also surrounded
(10:04):
by other individuals, all men who are gold miners, who
are essentially traveling through and they go in and they
go out and aren't from Nome, but are therefore Oh no.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Pain, you're telling me they're transience.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Absolutely okay, you're giving me a chill down my spine
yet again, Pain, You're famous for giving people chills down
their spines. Because I'm thinking of a case that you
and I have both covered out of Florida, Jennifer KESSI
because Kessie goes missing, You go into her place. The
(10:44):
parents go into her place the next day when she
doesn't answer calls, just like in this case, they find
where her clothes are laid out to go to work
the following morning, the showers actually still damp.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
No sign of Jennifer. Where do transience fit into this?
You know where?
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Because surrounding her condo was a lot of development down
in Florida and a lot of transience building the condos,
I mean, when they're gone, they're gone. Nobody has their name,
they're LKA last known addresses by.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Could they be witnesses?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Could they be perpetrators? They could be either of those.
So you're telling me many people in the bar that
night are a mail and don't fight with me about
this pain. We all know that the perp, if there
is one, is likely a male. Statistically, don't start with
women can kidnap.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
And murder too. I know that, But I'm telling you
that's not what happened. So she's at a bar pain.
According to you, you've been to the bar that night.
Speaker 2 (11:49):
She's surrounded by a lot of guys, and many of
them are transient miners. Is that right?
Speaker 1 (11:56):
That's a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 7 (11:58):
Pain, lindsay, that's absolutely correct, and it was a recipe
for disaster because that's the last known place.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Hey, Pain, when you went in the bar. Tell me
about the bar. It's what's it like? I mean, honestly,
it's a super small place. It's old, it's dusty. You
have some locals in there who seem like they spend
you know, half their days in there.
Speaker 7 (12:20):
You have a couple random people who are visiting, and
it seems like a consistent bar clientele that circles in
and out.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Pain. I like that part because, yeah, that means if
you see the same people like Cheers, right, yea Cheers,
you know everybody, and they would know her and they
could give me some leads.
Speaker 7 (12:43):
Right, you'd think, so yeah, unless that person was harboring
a secret.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
You know, Pain, I've come to be very suspicious when
you say things like you'd think, so, okay, who is Florence.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Let's look at that. Who is Florence?
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Can looking at her at her standard routine, her personality
even give me a clue. Listen Florence's flow.
Speaker 6 (13:06):
Akpilook is the youngest of seven siblings, raised in the
small village of Wales, Alaska. Florence learns to practice subsistence,
just as inu ancestors lived off the land.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But when Florence.
Speaker 6 (13:17):
Learns she is expecting a baby girl, she decides to
move about one hundred miles south to the larger city
of Nome so her daughter has better access to healthcare
and education.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Her daughter her whole world.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
She's even willing to maybe one hundred miles away for
a better life for her daughter.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
What more do we know?
Speaker 12 (13:36):
Lawrence gets a job working in the hospital with Norton
Sound Health Corporation and is a wonderful mother to a Lithia,
now six years old. Florence is well known and well
liked in Nome and becomes close with siblings that live
in Nome, a brother and a sister, Blair, who is
now expecting a baby of her own. Florence has plenty
of friends to celebrate with her for her birthday, stopping
in at Board of Trade, one of the oldest bars
(13:58):
in town.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Authorities on a desperate mission to find a missing Alaskan mom.
As the FBI joins.
Speaker 6 (14:11):
The search, Blair reports Florence missing at six fifteen PM
that evening, two days after she last saw her sister
two days after the report, searches begin for the young mom.
Nome PD and dozens of volunteers go up and down
West Beach searching for any sign of Florence. FBI agents
and canine units eventually join the search, and one more
(14:32):
piece of Florence's clothing is discovered, but there's no other
leads on Florence.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Ocpolok socks and ses left behind of a missing mom.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
But where is Florence?
Speaker 3 (14:43):
You may be.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Sitting down, but you may need to lay down.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Wrote what you're about to hear the working theory of
the local PD. Brace yourself, listen well.
Speaker 12 (14:54):
There are many theories on what happened to Florence Akpelock.
Nome PD has released very few details on their investigation.
Their only official theory is a bear attack and they
simply haven't found the body. The public has very little
trust in the department, which struggles remain staffed. Chief William
Crockett agrees to an interview with Payne Lindsay, but isn't
in the office at the agreed upon time, then fails
(15:16):
to return any calls afterwards. The FBI assisted with searches
shortly after Florence's disappearance, but agents now direct anyone looking
for information on her case back to nome PD.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Okay, let me understand this. The working theory is that
Florence died of a bear attack. Well, let me get
straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Randolph Rice, joining
us former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney, no stranger to
a courtroom, and what that means is he knows evidence, really, Randolph,
(15:51):
So you're going to defend a case like this, And
the theory is what that mommy took off for socks
before the bear ate her.
Speaker 13 (15:58):
Yeah, this looks like the non police apartments attempt to
sort of push this under the rug because they can't
seem to put together the evidence that they need to
ultimately say what happened to Florence. You know, nobody leaves
the scene with their socks and their shoes and their
clothes just it doesn't make sense, which leans to the
probability that this was foul play, and therefore the known
police department needs to follow that foul play trail of evidence.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
Somebody needs to put a fire under their rear.
Speaker 8 (16:24):
End.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Angela Arnold, excuse me, doctor Angela Arnold joining us renowned
psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, whose expertise is focusing
on the mental and emotional welfare of women. Doctor Arnold,
do you ever get tired of police investigators? Ellie in
(16:48):
general law enforcement? And I am former law enforcement. Okay,
so this is a bitter peal for me to swallow.
When a woman goes missing, they say, oh, she's having
a time. She is with her whoever, you can fill
in the blank. Ex boyfriend, lover. What hold up in
some hotel having a great time while her daughter's sitting
(17:09):
at home trying to find something to eat.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
But here they really take the cake, doctor Angela.
Speaker 2 (17:15):
They say, a bear ate her. I mean, if I
were her family, I would want to go burn down
the police department a bear. Yeah.
Speaker 14 (17:23):
And you know, Nancy in they're wasting time, And everybody
knows how important those those first minutes and days are
in finding someone that has gone missing. Why don't they
If that's all they have to offer to the situation,
then they just need to keep their mouths shut, because Nancy,
that is the least helpful thing that anyone could have
(17:44):
said in this Okay, So, now this poor woman has
been missing, any kind of evidence is gone, and all
the police can come up with.
Speaker 1 (17:52):
By the minute.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
Yes, hey, the evidence is evaporating. Pain. Lens that you
heard what doctor Angela Arnold had to say. Pain. Is
this really a working theory?
Speaker 1 (18:03):
No wonder the share of hid?
Speaker 2 (18:05):
What was he under his desk when you went.
Speaker 7 (18:07):
To interview, he was back there hiding somewhere. I mean,
I just wish that they would shoot me straight. The
job of just talking about this case with a journalist
isn't that complicated, But they made it complicated because I
think that they're embarrassed so pain.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Hey, guys, if you don't know, Payne Lindsay, got to
listen to his podcast Up and Vanished. He was incredible
on the Tara Grinstead case. And here's his new one
in the Midnight Sun, referring to, of course this case
in no pain. How can they say with a straight
face a bear did it?
Speaker 7 (18:47):
Well, they don't say it with a straight face.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
They hide their face.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
Actually, if you try to ask them that question in person,
they'll say, yeah, i'll meet you tomorrow and then they'll
dodge you. I don't know how anyone.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Could say that with a straight face.
Speaker 7 (19:01):
Bears don't eat jeans and shoes and cell phones and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
That's ridiculous, Paine. I'm sorry I have to correct you
on air, but this was a very picky bear.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
He took off her shoes and socks. He didn't eat them, right.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
I mean how they can say this with a straight face.
Of course, as Payne Lindsay accurately points out, they don't
say it with a straight face. They hide when they
say things like.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
A bear ate her.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Deilah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence'silah,
did you hear this wacky zany theory that a bear
ate her? Unfortunately?
Speaker 8 (19:44):
I hear that as a resolution to several missing people,
because it seems as though that's a really easy way
to put a resolution on any missing person in our area.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Well, Deilah Johnson is exactly correct. A bear eight fill
in the blank seems to be the go to for
local law enforces. This would be laughable if a mother
wasn't missing, and I suspect very strongly that she has
been murdered. Does the name Joseph Baldaras ring a bell?
(20:23):
If not, it will now listen.
Speaker 11 (20:26):
Joseph Baldaras works a gnome as the law clerk and
is an avid outdoorsman who loves hiking, running, and fishing
out in the country. Joseph always responds to his fiancee,
Meghan's text as quickly as possible, but Saturday morning, Joseph
stops answering her. When Joseph doesn't show up for work
Monday morning, his family knows something is seriously wrong. That afternoon,
(20:49):
Joseph's truck is found backed into a pullout forty four
miles from town. Searches turn up nothing, and Joseph's roommate
is caught lying to police about his whereabouts Friday and
on Saturday night, but authorities truck is disappearance up to
a bear attack.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
Okay, apparently the bear can drive because the bear backed
the victim's vehicle into a pullout.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
And there's more.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Take a listen to our friends at ktv F.
Speaker 5 (21:17):
A search dog unit alerted to bowl there is sent
about a mile down the road from his truck, but
lost the trails soon after. Search pilots reported a noticeable
amount of bear activity in the area, but his family
suggested that they suspect fellow play pain.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Help me, How can this stand?
Speaker 2 (21:32):
How can one case after the next be attributed to
quote bear activity. There's no evidence. You recall you and
I have discussed me to many times the case of
Susanne Morphew, where it's claimed that a while animal dragged
her off. There's no sign of animal activity. There's no blood,
(21:56):
there's no drag marks which you would find if this
had happened. There is no half eaten carcass, there are
no bones, there's no other clothing, nothing to suggest that happened.
In any of the three cases we're talking about right now,
specifically with.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
Florence, it's just an easy cop out response. I mean,
the thing is, like you said, if this is their theory,
usually a theory is backed by some sort of information
that supports that. I would entertain the bear theory if
there was any evidence at all that suggested that.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
But there isn't.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
There's nothing, So.
Speaker 7 (22:34):
That's just a blanket excuse answer for basically, in other words,
I don't know, or we screwed.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Up Florence our pe luck. Last scene leaving a tent
on Alaska's West Beach, her family desperate for answers.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Leaving a tent on the beach, Well, that's odd because
when does it say she was last seen at a bar?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Or was she with a ba Listen.
Speaker 11 (23:01):
Payne Lindsay, host of the Up and Vanish podcast, travels
to Nome to investigate Florence's disappearance. Lindsay gets in contact
with Naomi, the bartender from Bored and Trade, who got
the tip from a patron that Florence was last seen
on West Beach. Naomi says the man came to know
him as a freelance gold miner, but also drove a
taxi in town for Checkers Cabs. The man resided in
(23:24):
a tent on West Beach. Naomi only knew him as
Oregon John to a very.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Dear friend, Florence's Jailah Johnson, author of One on One Dailah,
is that common that the transient miners that come to
them live in tent villages?
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Yes, the entire summer. The population of No Malaska fluctuates
probably two thousand during the summer, so that people think
that they're going to know him to get rich.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Okay, that's not helpful at all, Dilah. I'm not saying
it's not true. I know it to be true what
you just said. But to Chris McDonough joining me veteran
homicide detective, not helpful at all that there is an
entire transient village and that's not the first place police
(24:19):
went or sheriffs went. Everyone else in that bar, according
to Payne Lindsay, is likely a local except for the transience. Okay,
So when you throw into a situation Chris mcdonoughh one variable,
and that being transience at the bar that night, that's
(24:39):
where you go. The rest of the world doesn't understand
that this is normal. For no and other mining areas.
People flood in for a mining season and then they disappear,
just like transience disappeared from the Jennifer Kessey scene.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
They're there for the work.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
And then they leave, and once they leave, you'll never
find them again.
Speaker 9 (25:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 10 (25:06):
Absolutely, And that point of contact I e. Where these
old transients go, I E. The bar potentially. But more importantly,
one of the things I want to point out, Nancy,
that you mentioned is there's a witness that says, you know, well,
she was last seen on the beach with a minor
coming out of a tent. Well that individual just put
(25:28):
themselves at the beach watching her come out of a tent.
So that's a huge red flag. If it's the same
guy there, you go, let's start from there.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Man, you are so right, Payne Lindsay joining me, host
of up and Vanas, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance,
even traveling to know to find out what he could
and trying to confront local La who basically hid from him.
So the bartender, the female bartender, Naomi at the Board
(25:59):
and Trade, get's a tip that Florence's last seen on
West Beach. What else did she learn?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
Pain?
Speaker 7 (26:07):
She learned that she was with a specific individual who
she knew by a nickname, a pseudonym. Oregon John was
his name.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
What can you tell me about clothing? About Florence's clothing
being found?
Speaker 7 (26:23):
So, Oregon John was a minor like several others who
were camped out on this area of West Beach, and
at nighttime they would kind of have parties and stuff there,
and they were all transient people. Flows items, her personal items,
her clothing was found outside of this man's tent. And
(26:46):
when someone goes missing and you have her things in
your possession, it would be common sense to ask this
person what the hell happened? But that was never done
in an official capacity. In this case, pay.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
When you say her items are you talking about the
socks as we've heard about, Are you talking about her
bra and underwear?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
What was found?
Speaker 7 (27:10):
There's mixed conflicting reports of that because initially it was
FLOE's family who was out there searching, and they're the
ones who discovered that any of her items at all
were in this man's possession, but he willingly gave it
over to the police and to the family. The fact
(27:30):
that he has anything of hers at all is strange
because that's the last place she was. Why would she
not leave with her clothes on?
Speaker 6 (27:40):
Blair and several family members canvas West Beach, asking anyone
who will talk to them about Florence. Eventually, a man
says he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent a round
four pm. The man asks Blair to wait a moment
and rummages around inside his tent. He returns with Florence's socks, shoes,
and jacket. Bewildered, Blair asked where Florence is and why
(28:00):
he has her things. The man seems to clam up,
but insists he did not bring Florence to West Beach
and he found her belongings outside his tent.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Where is Florence? Uck pluck, the mom last seen leaving
a gold miner's tent before vanishing into the Alaskan wilderness.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
At the bar on the beach in a tent. Then
we hear disturbing reports about a very eerie phone call
made by Florence that night.
Speaker 11 (28:34):
Listen Gnome Pedi also follows up with the man who
gave Blair some of Florence's clothing. The man gives cops
the same story of finding her belongings outside his tent
and turns over one more item, Florence's cell phone. Law
enforcement never publicly divulges if anything found on the phone
provided new leads, but according to a local with friends
(28:54):
on the search and rescue team, Florence made a troubling
call to a friend that night, saying, I'm in the
bushes with some people. They're passing something around and I
don't feel safe.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
With my close friend of Florence's, her confidant Deilah Johnson,
author of one of our own Danna, thank you for
being with us. What do you know about this phone
call made by Florence?
Speaker 8 (29:19):
That it's terrifying that it does kind of provide more
than just speculation on what maybe had occurred, that evening to.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Payne Lindsay, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance. Payne, what
do we know about the call? Who did she call?
And how do you decipher what she said? She was clearly.
Speaker 7 (29:42):
Scared, she was in a state of distress, and she
names being with multiple individuals. Now I know these people's names.
I have not publicly stated all of them because sometimes
I'm still talking to but collect actively. Here you have
a group of men who were the last people to
(30:04):
see Florence alive and then she simply vanishes. These people
need to be questioned by law enforcement. The fact that
they haven't been is ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I mean, it's like the Terry Grinsday case all over again. Well,
can you tell me about another conflicting story? Pain a
story that another witness states that Florence was with his
neighbor the night before, driving on the beach on an
ATV all terrain vehicle, and then the witness sees the
(30:39):
neighbor returning and Florence wasn't there.
Speaker 1 (30:43):
It was just the neighbor.
Speaker 7 (30:45):
Bottom line is you can sit here and look at
all the different conflicting stories and theories. When you whittle
it all down, which I've done my best to do here.
Speaker 15 (30:55):
What stays true is that she was at the bar,
then she left and went to West Beach, no matter
how she got there, and she has never been seen
since then.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Do you believe those witnesses pain?
Speaker 7 (31:08):
I believe that the timing of everything may not be perfect, right.
I think that the bottom line is she was there.
There's physical evidence that she was there. Her stuff is there,
so we know for the fact that she was there
and people saw her correct and it was outside of
a specific tint, not just any tent.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
We know whose tint it was. Why do you have
her stuff?
Speaker 7 (31:33):
I don't have any missing person's stuff outside of my tent.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
To make matters even more heartbreaking. In addition to what Payne,
Lindsay accurately points out that none of these witnesses have
been questioned, much less under oath. Many of them gone
dispersed at the end of the season. The family, they're
the ones that are out searching for Florence. Listen.
Speaker 12 (31:58):
After two weeks with no leads from West Beach, law
enforcement agencies suspend their searches. Florence's family returns to beach
every day for eight months, refusing to give up on Florence,
but felt that someone didn't want them searching there. Family
members have several videos of two men in a black
truck following them as they search along the beach. In
one incident, the passenger sticks a gun out of the
(32:20):
window and fire shots in the air. Nome PD seems
to brush off their concerns and ask the family to
back off and let them do their job.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
Payne lindsay, in addition to the time that the local ELI,
I guess the sheriff didn't show up for an interview.
It's an eerie reminder for me the Natalie Holloway case.
Beth Twitty and I went back, as you know, to
Aruba to try to scare up some more leads, and
(32:49):
it was there we drove by a structure pain and
she said, yeah, I sat in there for five hours
waiting to speak to the chief of police. They told
me he was at the barber shop. They told me this.
They told me that after five hours, he walks out,
not realizing she's still sitting there rubbing his stomach because
(33:10):
they had just brought him food so he wouldn't have
to see her.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
He ate in his office and then ran into her.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I mean that sounds like what's happening now with them
ducking you. As a matter of fact, you're not the
only one he's ducking.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Listen pain.
Speaker 11 (33:27):
Months into the search for Florence, Aunc Piollok, her best
friend to Aila, and sister Blair hold a march for
missing and murdered Indigenous people through downtown Nome, ending in
a local genesium for several speakers to highlight their loved ones.
While Blair speaks expressing concern for the lack of police
investigation through heart wrenching sobs. The Nome PD chief makes
(33:49):
an appearance, shocking the crowd, but the chief isn't there
for the event. He calmly walks past the crowd to
the gym equipment for his workout.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Geolo Johnson tell me what.
Speaker 9 (34:01):
That was A.
Speaker 8 (34:03):
I mean, when we gather to support and honor any
mmi w G or m MIP individual as natives, you know,
we it's a It's already a challenging time because we
are having to honor those that aren't with us anymore,
and a lot of the time there's a lot of
systemic injustice. But when we were specifically honoring managing Florence Socpiollock,
(34:28):
and then we also noticed that the chief is there
for a workout. That was also just heartrenching for us,
because we would love.
Speaker 9 (34:40):
To have.
Speaker 8 (34:42):
The entire community, all law enforcement, search and rescue, all
community leaders, all people within the community come together because
we all it's an isolated area, and so if we
can all help one another and support one another, I
think there would be there would be better relationships, and
the lack of trust probably wouldn't be such a stain
(35:05):
on the community.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Members PAYLUSA just having a horrible time understanding the sheriff.
While family and friends are out there bringing awareness to
Florence's disappearance, he walks up like he's going to the
vigil and it just keeps walking and goes to the
gym to work out.
Speaker 7 (35:24):
I mean, come on, bro, even if giving him the
benefit of the doubt, that is just the biggest lack
of awareness I've ever seen. Clearly, you do not care
about this case. Clearly, if you didn't know this was happening,
you're not actively investigating it. All that tells me is
that hand over the damn case file then, because you're
(35:45):
not doing anything about it and you're comfortable being rude
in public and sending this strange message to people who
are fighting for justice right here out in the open
in your own town.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Take a listen to up and banished the midnight Sun.
Speaker 9 (36:02):
There we are.
Speaker 16 (36:04):
He took a beautiful person from this earth. I hope
you feel horrible and you feel guilty. I love you.
Speaker 11 (36:13):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (36:17):
There's actual facts that need to be run to ground,
that need to be looked into because they're very.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Suspicious crime stories with Nancy Grace. Who is this so
called Oregon John, his moniker that was last scene with Florence.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Well, this is what we've learned about him.
Speaker 11 (36:45):
It turns out Oregon John has ninety three arrests in Gnome.
The charges include everything from disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, harassment,
probation violation, and cruelty to animals to theft's assaults and
two rapes. Oregon John appears to be very dangerous, and
with John having Florence his socks, shoes, jacket, and cell phone,
(37:09):
he may very well be the last person to see her.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Pay Lindsay joining us, who has spent so many months
investigating Florence's disappearance.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Where is he now?
Speaker 7 (37:22):
I know exactly where he is I'm not going to
say it on live air right now because mostly because
you have a lot of listeners and viewers, and so
do I. I don't want the Good Samaritans to go
spook this guy anymore. But I'm in communication with them,
and I have maintained that he has questions that need answers,
(37:46):
and everything points back to Oregon. John. You can dive
down a million rabbit holes, but you must explain why
he had her things. And look at who we're talking
about here. Ninety three and offenses, rape, cruelty to animals.
These aren't petty offenses. This is a big This paints
(38:09):
a character of somebody who is dangerous.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Between him walking free with ninety three offenses and the
shriff hiding under his desk when you try to interview him.
Chris mcdonnad joining me, veteran homicide detective and star of
the Interview Room on YouTube.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Chris.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
In any other universe other than Nome, Alaska, this guy
would be alone in a jail cell under the jail,
but instead he's out free having long chats with Payne Lindsay.
Speaker 10 (38:40):
Yeah, and he's dangerous, And the fact that this guy's
an apex predator is what we'll call him. And I
think if they took cadaver dogs within probably fifty yards
of that tent, they they may really want to focus
very clearly in that particular geographic type of profile.
Speaker 9 (39:00):
And by the way, he hasn't stopped.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Chris, please spare me any evidence that would have been near.
That tent is long gone. It's on the beach number one.
Speaker 9 (39:11):
Except for except for except for her body.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Yes, yes, but I guarantee you the body is.
Speaker 9 (39:17):
He's he's not taking a book.
Speaker 1 (39:19):
Okay, that's a really good point.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
And another thing I'd like to point out, this is
by far the first time that someone disappears in Nome,
and usually they blame it on a bear.
Speaker 1 (39:30):
But take a listen to this.
Speaker 17 (39:32):
Case brought a greater accountability to the police department in
the city of Nome. You now have a records management
system and it'll be a little bit harder for a
police officer to do it. Owens was able to do
to the city of Nome and to the known police department.
Speaker 16 (39:57):
So we thought, hey, I wonder if always picked up
a gun from the HEAVI and slacker, they could always
return it, presumably so nobody would know send it to
Bob Sham at the crime lab and like a eighty
ninety percent match somewhere in there. So we're fairly confident
that we had the right gun.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
So many people missing out of Nome, Alaska accounted for.
That's where our friends at Oxygen Payne lindsay, is Florence's
case going to end up like all the others out
of known know where there is no resolution and they
end up just saying bear attack. No, it's not.
Speaker 7 (40:35):
Mostly because of people like Deila in the community and
our team and you keeping this case alive. The bottom
line is I try to talk to local police. They
didn't want to. They're not going to be able to
help me anyways. I bet you their case file is
literally a paragraph on a page. They haven't done anything actively.
(40:57):
We don't need them to help us. The bottom line
is at this point, based on their history, I mean
a known police officer killed a woman one time, they
don't have a good track record here. Someone from the
state agency or even the FBI, because they do this
in small towns like this in Alaska, needs to step
(41:18):
in and look at this objectively and say, hey, let's
try to figure this out. There's a lot of red
flags waving, but they're doing nothing about it. If anything,
they're hindering journalists like myself from uncovering more truth.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
You know, you mentioned one of the la they are
actually being responsible for a disappearance. That was Sonya Ivanoff
that we were just discussing. Who vanishes but pain there
are so many others as you are uncovering guys his
podcast Amazing up and vanish.
Speaker 1 (41:52):
This is the Midnight Sun.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
Many people attribute pain to cracking the case of Terara Grinstead,
and I pray to God this case will also be cracked.
Dailah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence's,
her little girl still wanting mommy. I don't want Florence's
(42:18):
case to just be another statistic in No Alaska where
they end up a year from now going oh yeah
close case bear did it me?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Neither?
Speaker 8 (42:30):
And I'm so grateful for all of the platforms available
to raise awareness around this case, because oftentimes it is
not well covered in the news and in any media.
So it has been wonderful because I know that law
enforcement feels the pressure, and there has been a lot
of tension within the community based on a lot of
(42:53):
the talk around town now, and I think that it
has brought a lot of other conversations where previously community
members were nervous to speak about this, and now it's
becoming more of a comfortable conversation.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
If you know or think you know anything about the
disappearance of Florence or about so called Oregon John, I
beg you dial nine zero seven four four three five
two six ' two repeat nine zero seven four four
three five.
Speaker 1 (43:28):
Two six ' two.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
If you want to make a change, contact the Governor's
office in Alaska. Do they not know that Gnome law
enforcement blame one disappearance after the next on bear attacks?
Speaker 1 (43:44):
How can that stand?
Speaker 2 (43:46):
How can the governor show his face number nine zero
seven two six nine fifty one hundred, call him by name?
Greg Taylor. We waked as justice unfolds God willing in
the disappearance of Florence. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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