January 27, 2025 • 50 mins
The Camp Cohen Waterpark in northeast El Paso is holding a "soft opening" as staff prepares for the summer.
The playful sounds of children at the park are interrupted by lifeguards blowing whistles and ordering everyone out of the pool. An unconscious boy, not wearing a life jacket, is pulled from a four-foot-deep section of the water. Multiple signs at Camp Cohen state that children six and younger “must be directly attended by a swimming adult” at all times and “must be supervised by an adult within arm’s reach.” Parents gather around as lifeguards perform life-saving measures, but the boy's parents are not immediately identified.
Jessica Weaver, a 35-year-old single mother, lounges at Camp Cohen Waterpark while her 3-year-old son, Anthony, plays among other children. The scene is disrupted by lifeguards blowing whistles and clearing the pool. About five minutes later, Jessica notices the commotion and moves toward the pool, searching for Anthony. As she approaches, she realizes lifeguards are working on her son. She jumps into the pool, rushing to him.
Investigators probing the Mother’s Day weekend drowning of 3-year-old Anthony Malave are surprised to learn that his mother has filed a lawsuit against Destination El Paso, the company managing the city’s watermarks, and the City of El Paso. Jessica Weaver, represented by a Houston law firm, alleges gross negligence and wrongful death. The lawsuit claims that during the park’s “soft opening,” the city and Destination El Paso “focused more on packing the watermark with people and ensuring the live band was playing” than on safety.
Two months after Jessica filed the lawsuit and nearly four months after Anthony’s death, she is arrested. Authorities in Indiana arrest Weaver on a fugitive from justice warrant issued in El Paso, Texas. After waiving extradition, she is transported to El Paso, where she is released on a $100,000 bond.
Weaver’s attorneys in the wrongful death case against the city call her arrest a "retaliatory tactic" in response to her lawsuit
Joining Nancy Grace today:
- Eric Faddis – Partner at Varner Faddis Elite Legal, Former Felony Prosecutor and Current Criminal Defense and Civil Litigation Attorney; Instagram: @e_fad @varnerfaddis; TikTok: @varnerfaddis
- Caryn Stark – Psychologist, renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych, FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dr. Tom Griffiths -Drowning Expert - President and Founder, Aquatic Safety Research Group, co-host of the podcast “The Drowning Files”; Creator of Dr. Tom’s Lifeguard Vision app; Author of “Dr. Tom’s Lifeguard Chronicles”; “Safer Beaches” ; “Beter Beaches” and “The Complete Swimming Pool Reference”; website: www.aquaticsafetygroup.com and https://drtomslifeguardvision.com/; X: @AquaticSafetyGr; Facebook: AquaticSafetyResearchGroup
- Dr. Thomas Coyne - Chief Medical Examiner, District 2 Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida; Forensic Pathologist, Neuropathologist, Toxicologist; X: @DrTMCoyne
- Elaine Aradillas - Investigative Reporter; X: @theelaineja, Instagram: @the_elaine
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. According to witnesses, Mommy is
all dolled up, taking countless selfies and singing into her
iPhone while her top son, just three years old, drowns,
and tonight she's suing the water park. Good evening, I'm
(00:24):
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us. The water park just got sued. But according
to witnesses, Mommy was in a completely different area, left
her son alone for over an hour while she took
selfies and sang into her iPhone. I never thought about
putting on a mouthful of red lipstick to go to
(00:45):
the water park with the twins, but to each her own.
Joining us an all star panel to make sense of
what we are hearing right now, this is what we
understand as to how the day started.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's a beautiful Mother's Day weekend when Jessica Weaver and
her three year old son Anthony arrive at El Paso's
Camp Cohen water Park. The little boy is playing in
a four feet deep section of the pool while his
mother is lying out in the sun. Jessica entertains herself
with her phone while Anthony is seen eating chips and
spitting them out in the water as he plays. His
(01:22):
mother doesn't seem to notice or care as other parents
get frustrated at the disgusting addition to the water.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Joining me and All Star panel straight out to Elaine
Aadiaz investigative reporter, Alaine, thank you for being with us. Okay, So,
the first sign of trouble was when all the other
moms see the little three year old spitting his food
back into the water.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
In fact, one mother actually called the police and reported this,
this is not something you want to endure after spending
all this money to go into a water park have
a good time, you have an expectation of clean water.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know, although when you know there are a bunch
of children in the water, I mean aligne. They all
tete in the pool. So I'm not sure what potato
chips spit back in the water, how that's going to
change anything. But it's very overt that the child is there.
It's not the child's fault. And how long did that go?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Well, go ahead, I mean, I think that's a good example.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
That his mother was not monitoring him, right, Because yes,
it is a huge water park, has a capacity of
you know, hosting fourteen hundred people, and so you know,
kids are having a good time, But where was Jessica Weaver,
the boy's mother, while this is happening, And so you know,
(02:49):
he's out there plane and she's on her phone the
entire time, according to witnesses.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know align On Idias joining us high profile investigative
reporter Aligne. When the children, my twins were taughts, I
remember specifically being at Disney and I think they have
something called typhoon, lagoon something like that, and every X
number of seconds waves come out. They actually make waves,
(03:20):
and I kept telling them no, no, no, no, you
can't go there. They wanted to get in so badly.
I was a nervous wreck watching the trying to watch
two at the same time when those waves would come.
The thought of them being alone in the water, I
mean to Karen started joining me, our renowned psychologists joining
us from the Manhattan Jurisdiction, TV radio trauma expert. I
(03:44):
guess that's a personal fear because I had a water
accident as a young girl and almost drowned. That said,
don't we as humans have an innate fear of the
water where we're kind of on our guard.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Well, it's not natural for us to just dive in
the water. And usually when you're very young, unlike what
happened to you, Nancy, you wind up taking away that
fear goes away. You learn how to slim or be
in the water, to do something that keeps you alive. However,
in this situation, we're talking about a three year old
(04:20):
and a parent that's not being vigilant, and that goes
against that innate desire to protect your child and make
sure they're not.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Going to be in danger.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You know, we're learning a lot about what witnesses are saying,
but listen to this.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
The fun sounds of children playing at Camp Cohen water
Park is interrupted by lifeguard's blowing whistles telling everyone to
get out of the pool. An unconscious boy not wearing
a life jacket is pulled out of a four foot
deep section of water. Multiple signs at Camp Cohen state
that children six and younger must be directly attended by
a swimming adult at all times, and must be supervised
(04:58):
by an adult within arms reach. Parents gather around as guards,
but again life saving measures, but the victim's parents aren't found.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You know another thing. Eric Fattus joining me, criminal defense attorney,
civil litigator founding partner Varner fattest Elite Legal. Eric, you
know you can't judge a book by its cover. Not judging,
don't care. I have seen defendants that are gorgeous and beautiful.
(05:28):
I've seen them looking like they have just rolled out
from under a bridge or just rolled out of bed.
I've seen all sorts of defendants, but that is certainly
a look for the water park. A mouthful of red lipstick,
the long fake nails, the face full of makeup, the
sunglasses back on the hair. I'm not going to refer
(05:51):
to her declotage. That's none of my business. But Eric,
it doesn't look like she ever intended to get in
the water.
Speaker 8 (05:57):
Well, you know, in looking at her appearance, you know
that could just mean that she likes to be presentable
when she goes out. Look, she's a woman in her thirties,
she's a single mother. She was just going to get
a reprieve of being a single mother by entrusting the
care of her child to this amusement park. And then
lo and behold, here we are. I think there's another
story here.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Eric, question, do you have children?
Speaker 9 (06:20):
I do not?
Speaker 10 (06:21):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Okay, yeah, because what you just said is completely crazy.
You just said taking your child to a water park
is a reprieve for her? Hl n No, uh huh.
I've never been more freaked out in my life than
when I have the children at a water park. Not now,
(06:42):
but when they were this age. One time I dove
into the water while the twins were with the swimming instructure.
The instructor had John David Lucy's screen. Mommy, I was
fully dressed. I just got off h ol Anthropete's say
straight in choose the works. What do you mean taking
(07:03):
your child to a water park is a reprieve for mommy.
I've never been so jacked up in my life. I
might as well have been trying to triple homicide. Then
seeing those two in the water and it's my duty
to watch them. You think I trust some sixteen year
old boy to save my child? No, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 11 (07:22):
Man?
Speaker 8 (07:23):
You know, getting a break from single mother does not
mean that that you just completely ignore the child's well
being in safety.
Speaker 12 (07:29):
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is every
single mother every year. It is entitled what.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Are you saying getting a break from being a mom
at a water park?
Speaker 8 (07:38):
I'm saying that everyone is entitled to a little breather
here and there, and a common activity would be to
take your child to some amusement facility like this, and
that's not unreasonable to me.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Eric, you know you're not gonna get away from saying
this was a reprieve for mommy, But I'm gonna give
you a moment to regroup and gather your thoughts. Joining me,
Doctor Tom Griffiths joining us from State College in Pennsylvania,
Drowning Expert, President, founder Aquatic Safety Research Group, co host
of The Drowning Files. Okay, that just scared the crap
(08:12):
out of me, The Drowning Files, Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Vision
app author of Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
and the complete swimming pool Reference. It goes on and on,
Doctor Tom Griffith, thank you for being with us. Can
you understand what Eric Fattis just said? Because if he
(08:35):
says that in front of the civil jury, they're gonna
laugh him straight out of the courtroom. Mommy had a reprieve,
got a break from being a single mom by dumping
her child at a water park and then singing into
the cell phone and taking selfies. Uh huh.
Speaker 13 (08:50):
Unfortunately, Eric is right in some ways that's the biggest
fear of lifeguards and water park managers. Parents come to
the facility assuming that the lifeguards are perfect and they
are going to guarantee patron safety. But lifeguards, no matter
how well trained they are, no matter how vigilant they are,
(09:14):
they can't watch every child all the time. They can
only watch one child at a time. So in this case,
you're using human beings to watch other human beings, and
this woman was not watching apparently based upon eyewitness accounts.
And the lifeguards are looking, but sometimes they're not seeing.
(09:35):
Even the best trains lifeguards, we wouldn't be here today
if the child was in a properly fitting coast Guard
a proof life jackets. We've never found a single child
drowning in a water park who is wearing a properly
fitting coast Guard approved life jacket.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
No are Tom Griffins. I know you've written all these
books about swimming, but I think that's total bas to
say that people go into a water park assuming they
don't have responsibility for their own three year old child.
Speaker 13 (10:06):
They parents subconsciously rely upon the lifeguards. Not all parents,
many parents are great. In fact, most parents are great.
But when you see these professionally dressed and very active
lifeguards pointing and blowing their whistles, you're assume that you
have this layer of protection that's impenetrable, and it's not.
(10:28):
No one's perfect. Whenever you have human beings watching other
human beings, we're gonna miss some. But most parents are good,
vigilant parents like you certainly were with your children. But
not everyone is like that. And so Eric does speak
or address some of those adults.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Okay, well we'll see if jury agrees with doctor Tom
Griffiths and Eric fattest. I will say this Fattest, and
just because it is done doesn't mean it should be done.
And I go uh with the twins to our community pool.
I see a whole string of drunk moms. Now I
(11:08):
don't even see any dads anywhere. I don't know where
they are, but I see a string of drunk moms
almost asleep getting a sun tan. I guess I don't
know the sun causes cancer. But that said, and all
the children are in the pool. I mean, I feel
like I have to watch them. But just because they
(11:30):
do that doesn't mean it's right.
Speaker 8 (11:33):
It doesn't, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's criminal either.
Speaker 12 (11:36):
That's the distinction.
Speaker 8 (11:37):
There are varying levels of attention that a parents may
give this in this scenario, the criminal law does not
require them to be super superman and superwoman parents. And
that's just not what the legal threshold is.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We look at you. They don't have to be super
mom to keep your eyes open and off your cell phone,
to watch your child in the water over its head.
That's that's not super mom. That is a normal mom.
That's a responsible mom.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
Well, I saw in that video you played earlier where
mother Jessica Weaver, moments before her child died, apparently was
filming her child going down the slide, and so to
say she was completely an attentive seems contradictory to the evidence.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Defense attorney Eric Fattus says, it's okay if mommy comes
to a water park with her three year old child
that obviously can't swim, for a reprieve, for a time out,
for a respite for mommy to chill while her son
paddles around in the water and drowns. Well, the district
(12:39):
attorney disagrees.
Speaker 14 (12:41):
Listen, there's numerous witnesses that have come forward who have
given their account that they were there at the park,
they were watching, they saw her not paying attention to
her child, and that the child ended up drowning.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
Witness one said a woman matching Weaver's description was on
her sitting outside of the pool for over an hour,
saying she was never looking up or paying attention to anything.
Witness too said she saw a boy without his mother
and that she saw Weaver laying down and singing along
to her phone for approximately seven minutes before the toddler
(13:17):
was pulled out of the water. Witness iree said a
woman matching Weaver's description encouraged the toddler to go into
the pool before walking away and leaving the boy by himself.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Some of that from our friends at Kate Fox fourteen
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Elaine Autadiaz
joining US investigative reporter, Elaine, all these witnesses are coming forward,
(13:48):
what is your understanding of the timeline that happened that day?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
So they go to the water park. It's a soft opening,
which means they're kind of getting ready their big, you know,
grand opening was going to be two weeks later for
Memorial Day weekend, and so that day they go, there's
(14:12):
about four hundred and sixty six people at this park,
which actually holds one thy four hundred and sixty people. Now,
the thing is she the mom goes, finds a lounge chair,
hangs out, and this is witness after witness after witness
tells investigators that she was not paying attention to her
(14:38):
boy while he was going through the lazy river and
the other thing.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
To note a lazy river.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Wait a minute, elne out Adias, did you say lazy river?
Those currents are strong? What was this baby able to
get into a lazy river? It's not lazy.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
It's lazy meaning you don't have to do any work
because it will take you.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
The current takes you around and around.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
And he did not have a life jacket, according to
witnesses and police.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
And you know, at three years old.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
There is a sign that says children under six should
have life jackets.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So you know, again something that's going to be brought
up in court. I'm sure you know.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Faddess Jackie here in the studio with me, saved two
children at the pool when she was there with her
little boy. When mommy's and dads weren't watching. I've saved
one when mommy wasn't watching. Get you know where mommy was.
She was on the side of the pool drinking alcohol
(15:53):
in a big red solo cut. Okay, I could smell it.
I say, not judging, but I am judging here because
in this case, the child is dead. Did you hear
what Elaine out Adiez just said. There are signs everywhere
that says under six years old, your child must wear
(16:14):
a life jacket.
Speaker 8 (16:15):
Well, according to Jessica Weaver's attorney, the company actually prohibits
people from bringing their own life jackets. You'd have to
use the life jackets there. This was the first day
of this place was open. It's unclear how many extra
life jackets were available and what the process was for
distributing those to people who enter. Perhaps they should have
been distributed immediately upon entry.
Speaker 12 (16:34):
That did not happen. And thank Kevin's you were there
to save those kids.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
That this company should hire you all as lifeguards because
the lifeguards who were there failed in their role of
protecting these jugs.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I'm sorry, I can't do that. I'm busy dealing with you.
Faddish Elaine Aidias, that's not true because according to not
only the police investigation, but what the cityvale Passe was
saying back, there were plenty of water jackets, right.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
There was a third of the people in there in
the water park. So the city is claiming that there
were more than enough life jackets, and the mother is
saying that there were not.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Another witness saw Jessica Weaver sitting by the pool on
the outside concrete area which separated the Lazy River and
the jungle gym with a slide, and that Weaver was
not in the water at any point and he never
saw her with a child. What caught his attention was
the way Weaver was acting, how she was all dulled up,
sitting outside the pool on her phone and taking pictures
(17:38):
the entire time he saw her. The man said, when
the child was pulled out of the water, Weaver was
still in the same spot and had not moved. She
only got in the water after her son was pulled out.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I can tell you this, Eric fattasaw. You're a criminal
defense attorney, boy, does she need one? The digital evidence
in this case is going to be the steak in
mommy's heart. Of course, she's presumed innocent if and until
she is proven guilty in a court of law. But
if this witness is correct, and I have no reason
(18:09):
to believe all of these witnesses lined up against her, Okay,
I love arguing that to the jury. What you believe
him or her over the eight witnesses that don't even
know her? Are they all lying and she's the only
one telling the truth? Okay, you could argue that to
a jury, But how are you going to argue fattest
(18:30):
the digital evidence? And what I mean is when the
alarm is raised, I guarantee you there's a time and
accurate time as to when the child was first spotted
face down in the water. They're going to take her phone,
or they should take her phone and look at what
(18:51):
time she was taking selfies. Did you see that selfie
of her with a mouthful of red lipstick? Okay, that
selfie didn't take itself. Okay, she's doing that. That's what's
happening right there while her son is drowning. And they're
going to match up the time that she was listening
to music and singing into her iPhone and taking selfies.
(19:14):
They're going to match it up to the exact time
her little boy died.
Speaker 8 (19:19):
That'll be an issue with which defense has to contend.
But what was everyone else doing during that time too,
that's also important, right, And it turns out some of
the lifeguards were directed to be cooking churos and attending
to the sour cream and making sure the place makes money.
This is a matter of corporate greed that really infused
this horrible set of circumstances and contributed substantially to what
(19:41):
happened here. So certainly her phone is is a problem.
But what these folks were doing in the concessions, these lifeguards,
that's also a problem.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I don't know that I would call her phone a problem.
I don't think her phone was the problem. I think
she's the problem. And you're saying, what about all the
other people? Okay, Eric, I hope you don't mean passers
by or other people lounging outside the pool with their
(20:09):
own children, taking care of their own children. I assume
you're saying that the lifeguards were the ones busy cooking truros.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 12 (20:18):
According to Jesscuaver's attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yes, okay. Can I ask you, do you believe that
the lifeguards, according to her, that were in doing kitchen duty?
Are responsible for Weaver not watching her child? You're saying
the tot is their responsibility, not her responsibility.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
What I'm saying is we're talking about, in the criminal
law context, who caused this death, and but for these
lifeguards not doing their job, they would have swooped in
and done what they were paid to do, what they
were ostensibly trained to do, although there's some question.
Speaker 12 (20:56):
I swear they got adequate training whatsoever.
Speaker 8 (20:59):
And so we're talking about causation here, and we're talking
about blame, and I think that we need to take
a broader look at that when we're talking about all
the actors involved and how this culminated into this orrible event.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Eric Fadas, this is a yes.
Speaker 11 (21:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Do you think I just fell off the turnip truck? No? Okay,
that was wise because you are trying to mix civil
law with criminal law. Causation and a nexus between actions
and results are for civil liability. What we're looking at
right here is mother's criminal activity, neglect and abandoning her
(21:38):
child in a dangerous situation. Again, it's just like throwing
you in the ring with a bunch of Rottwilers and
saying have a nice day. And then singing along with
your iPhone.
Speaker 12 (21:49):
Fancy.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Throughout the course of human history, there have been horrible
accidents that happen to children while they're in their parents' care.
Not every single one of those accidents is a prosecutable murder.
Sometimes these are just horrible events that happen, and it's
more appropriate to litigate them in the civil realm. And
that's what the mother is trying to do with her
lawsuit against the city of el Pass.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Defense attorney Eric Fattis calls it mommy's time out, mommy's reprieve. Well,
the district attorney calls it a first degree felony. Joining
me now, special guest Doctor Thomas Coyne, Chief and Medical
Examiner and District two in the state of Florida, which
(22:30):
is packed with water parks, forensic pathologists, neuropathologist, toxicologists. You
can find him at doctor tmcoin. Doctor Coin, thank you
for being with us. You just heard Elaine Autodias report
that the child, according to witnesses, was alone for about
an hour, where other witnesses observed later identified to be
(22:51):
mommy taking selfies, lying in the sun, singing into her
iPhone and more anything but being with the boy an
hour Dodger coin. How long does it take for someone
to drown?
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Very fast? Actually, you know, for an adult, the loss
of consciousness probably occurs that around a time when you
can no longer hold your breath, So for adults that
may take about three minutes, but for kids much faster
than that, probably in around one and a half minutes.
But that may even be faster if the child has
in a panic and starts to aspirate or breathe in water,
(23:28):
which will cause you know, a spasm of the larynx,
preventing further breathing. So I mean it could possibly be seconds.
But on the other hand, we're also assuming that this
child was awake when it became submerged. But playing around
in a water park like this is very common for
a child to get concussed, elbowed by another child, fall
comes down a slide, hits his head, so he maybe
(23:49):
knocked unconscious and then become submerged, and then of course
death probably occurs within three minutes. The heart will stop
once not enough oxygen is going to the brain as
well as at the heart.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Doctor coin. The state of Florida is dotted with water
parks and pools for children. How many swimming deaths do
you see a year approximately, Well, i'll tell you.
Speaker 9 (24:13):
In terms of our practice, it's the second leading cause
of accidental death amongst children. We see a large volume
of pool related deaths. Most of the cases we see
are in home pools. You know, the classic story as
a parent becomes distracted maybe with other children, allowing let's
say a toddler to gain access to the outdoor Lenai,
(24:35):
and then they fall into a pool. These are course
of preventable deaths. In most cases, it's because the proper
safety measures weren't in place. But yeah, unfortunately, every year
in Florida, we see a large number of these unfortunate deaths.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Doctor Coin, we were talking about how long it takes
for a person to drown, and you mentioned that the
child could have been concussed or had fallen asleep in
the sun after playing the water for so long. Let's
pretend that he was not concussed and that he was
not over exerted from playing by himself for so long
(25:11):
in a typical drowning. How long does that take?
Speaker 9 (25:15):
Generally it would take around I say a child this
age probably a minute to a minute and a half.
And the reason being is because once the child goes
into the water and becomes submerged, of course your initial
reflex is to hold your breath, but then panic ensues.
Your heart rate goes up and it's natural for you
to try to take a breath, and water is aspirated
into the mouth and that causes a reflex closing of
(25:38):
your larynx which would stop breathing. And so that really
the time to loss of consciousness is how much oxygen
reserve does this child have. This child is very young,
high metabolic rate, probably running around all day, so I
would assume that this process is much smaller. So I
would bet you probably in about a minute of being
submerged too, lost consciousness and then just under the water
(26:01):
waiting for someone to find him an extract.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Doctor Tom Griffiths agree or disagree?
Speaker 13 (26:05):
Well, I agree with the doctor definitely. It can be
as little as ninety seconds. Traditional drownings may take for
adults four to six minutes. But it's he's spot on.
It can happen in seconds and again anywhere from ninety
seconds in my mind, to a longer period of four
to six minutes. But younger kids usually go sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So doctor Tom Griffiths. Knowing that a child can drown
from A to Z start to finish in less than
two minutes, you still stand by your theory. Agreeing with
Fattest that it's okay for mommy to be on her
cell phone taking selfies for an hour, I did.
Speaker 13 (26:50):
I did not agree with Fattest. I just agreed with
him stating that sometimes parents do this negligent behavior. I
don't agree that it's acceptable parents do this. I'm trying
to point out that we have well trained lifeguards in
good numbers at these water parks, and the training agencies
like Ellis and Associates are excellent, but they can't overcome
(27:13):
parents who neglect their children. I don't agree with Fattus.
I'm just agree that they're not negligent. I'm agreeing that
this does happen. This is the important point. Parents need
to watch their children. I agree with the way you
behave when your twins are at the water park.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, you know, I'd like your objective opinion, doctor Tom Griffiths,
because I'm overly protected because in my world, not only
can something conceivably go wrong, it will go wrong, because
in my world, it's gone wrong before. After the murder
(27:52):
of my fiance, so I see the world in a
different way. Okay, I think it's very likely that something
will go wrong, But for normal people, what is your advice?
I mean, you've written all of these books, Doctor Tom Lifeguard,
Vision app Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
(28:16):
and the complete swimming pool Reference, which is pretty amazing.
You can find Tom at Aquaticsafetygroup dot com. That sounds
a lot like the group we found to teach the
kid our children to swim. We went through swimming twice
when they were about I don't know, two and a half,
(28:38):
then when they were a little older, and then I
went with them for both of them to get their
Scout Merit badge in swimming, which was no easy thing,
was very rigorous. In fact, Doctor Griffiths, I know this
was overdoing it. But when they went out of town
to scout camp, I jumped in the water and did
(29:03):
the know. I know they must have been humiliated, and
did the swim test with them that would allow them
to be around the water. You know. For the rest
of the week I was so worried, frankly about my
daughter being able to have the stamina to finish the
swim test for Scout Camp because there's really a long test.
(29:25):
I had to stop in the middle of dog paddle
before I could finish the thing. So reasonably speaking for
a normal person, what do you advise at a water park?
Because that's a lot different than a pool in my mind,
because water parks are crazy. There are so many children,
there's a slide, there's music, there's people yelling, there's people eating,
(29:49):
there's a lot of commotion, their birthday parties going on
that people are singing, happy. It's crazy. It's a lot
different from just being alone with your child in the pool.
What should parents do?
Speaker 13 (30:02):
You're right, there's so many distractions at a water park.
Number one, they should put their cell phone away. We
like to say texting is neglecting. If you're on your phone,
you're not watching your kids. If you're taking video of
your child, you're really not watching your kid. We've had
we've lost children while the mother was taking photos of
(30:22):
their child. But a coast guard, a proof life jacket
I believe, we believe should be required at these water parks.
We don't think parents should be given the choice. I
know everyone likes free choice, but for non swimming children
under the age of six six and under or under
forty eight inches tall, they should be in a properly
fitting coast guard prove life jacket, because the life jacket
(30:46):
is more vigilant than any parent or any lifeguard could
ever be. So we believe in a note and float
mentality where you note your child as a non swimmer
and you float them in a coast guard a prove
life jacket.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You know what's interesting, I was talking about that community
to be a pool where all those moms were out
getting a son tan cancer and their children were unattended
to be in the pool. I believe you should have
a swimming test before you're in the pool. But that said,
a lot of the children are too young to be
(31:18):
able to swim. They should be in the kiddie pool.
But I want you to hear doctor what mommy has
to say.
Speaker 10 (31:26):
Like watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
That's my friends at k Fox fourteen. But Elaine Autodiaz,
she says it was just like watching a slow train wreck.
She wasn't watching even when medics were working on her son.
He was pulled out of the water, and all the
other parents were gathering around. They didn't know who the
mom was, much less the dad. Dad wasn't there, but
(31:56):
they didn't even know who the mom was. So she
wasn't watching any slow train wreck, right.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Witness after witness say that she was lounging. She was
just staring at her phone. I believe one witness even
had she stared into her phone for seven minutes, and
that is just repeated over and over and for the
(32:27):
longest time, she had no idea what her child was doing.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
How would a witness know that mommy was looking at
her phone for seven straight minutes.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Because she's all dolled up at a water park. And
I get it, you know, especially if you're going with
your girlfriends, you're turning it into a thing. You're gonna
get dressed up in your best swimsuit. But she's a
mother to a three year old, and she was, you know,
(32:57):
all dulled up as they say, and you know, I
mean she's wearing this yellow top. I mean you cannot
look away. And so I think you know, someone watched
her for seven minutes, because that's what was reported to police.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Crimes tours with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 15 (33:26):
Investigators looking into the Mother's Day weekend drowning death of
three year old Anthony Malave are stunned to find out
the mother of the toddler is filing a lawsuit against
Destination al Paso, the company that runs the city's water parks,
and against the City of El Paso, alleging gross negligence
and wrongful death. The lawsuit has been filed on behalf
of Jessica Weaver by a Houston law firm and claims
(33:47):
that during the park's soft opening, the city and Destination
al Paso we're too concerned with packing the water park
with people and ensuring that the live band was playing.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Well, let's hear it from the Horse's Mouth.
Speaker 10 (33:58):
City.
Speaker 16 (33:59):
You know had this soft opening to get their operations going,
but it cost my son because they weren't ready.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
They weren't ready.
Speaker 16 (34:08):
For a drowning and more children trying to save children.
And I understand, you know, they're like they're young lifeguards,
but at least have someone who's done this before.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Karen start with me. Renowned psychologists joining us from the
Manhattan jurisdiction. Karen, when I analyzed her words, the city
had a soft opening but it cost my son. They
weren't ready. She goes on to say that the lifeguards
looked young and inexperienced. I mean, when you go to
(34:42):
a water park with a single most important thing in
your world, which is your child, shouldn't you look at
the lifeguards and you, as the parent, assess whether they
are capable.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
Not only that, Nancy, of course, the lifeguards should have
been trained in However, this child should have been wearing
a vest. She doesn't even mention anything about a life vest.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
You've been at pools. I've been at pools.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
All little babies, three year olds are wearing those water wings.
In addition to it, it's very interesting to me that
she's all dialed up at that pool, but during this
interview she looks much more conservative, pulled together, and it
doesn't seem like there's any grief. I've seen so many
(35:30):
parents talk about dead children and they're tearing up and
crying while they're talking.
Speaker 12 (35:35):
About that child.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
And here I see, honestly, the same narcissism, the narcissistic
neglect that you see at that pool, and somebody who
is very composed, ready to defend herself and deflect the blame.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You know, what I think you're right, Karen start. Let's
take a look at mommy. Here she is at the
pool as opposed to speaking for her lawsuit.
Speaker 10 (36:01):
Listen watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
From our friends at Kay Fox fourteen. And now listen
to Mommy's next claim.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Two months after Jessica Weaver filed her wrongful death lawsuit
and almost four months after Anthony's death, thirty five year
old Jessica Weaver is arrested in her home state of
Indiana on a fugitive warrant out of El Paso, Texas.
Waving extradition.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
She is transported to.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
El Paso, where she is let out of jail with
a one hundred thousand dollars bond. Weaver's attorneys claimed the
arrest of Weaver is retaliatory tactics for her lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Okay, Elene Autodios, let me understand. She's arrested and now
the civil attorney, which is a lawyer not defending you
on a crime, but is seeking money damages for you.
The civil lawyer is claiming Mommy was arrested out of
revenge for the lawsuit.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Well, let's take a look at the timeline. So Anthony,
three year old Anthony dies on May thirteenth, twenty twenty three.
Then about six weeks later, on June thirtieth, the civil
lawsuit is filed. And then September fifth, twenty twenty three,
(37:25):
she's arrested. But then in Texas she's just arrested. Her
indictment came in December, so it's been it's been a
bit of a timeline. And so they are saying that
because she filed a million dollar lawsuit against the city
of El Paso, that they in turn went and arrested her.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Okay, she got indicted.
Speaker 17 (37:50):
Listen, Jessica Weaver indicted in the death of her three
year old son, and if convicted, could face life in prison.
The indictment states Weaver failed to provide care for her son,
did not give her toddler a life vest, did not
get in the water with her son, she did not
follow park rules, she did not keep her son in
her sight, and allowed Anthony in the water soon after eating.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
As Mommy blames the city of El Paso and the lifeguards.
This is what the district attorney has to say.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
Lifeguards at our water parks are not babysitters. They are
there to try to provide life saving treatment, but they're
not there to babysit. It is a parent's responsibility to
take care of your children.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Now from our friends that Kate Fox at fourteen, it's
not the first time that a mom has been criminally
charged for ignoring their child in the water.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
Ayas allegedly asked the hotel staff to open this indoor
pool so Caitlin could swim. The workers warned her there
was no lifeguard on duty, mom, says a watcher. Meanwhile,
Ericabias has a five month old son that she left
alone in the hotel room. Still five month old boy
left alone in the hotel room. Seven year old girl
(39:07):
left alone at the pool while mom goes to the bar.
Bias went to check on the little girl. They found
her quote floating lifeless in the pool, according to the
district attorney, But instead of leaping right in to get
her daughter, Bias took her time, allegedly removing her shoes
and socks and making sure her phone won't get wet
before jumping in to save her daughter.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That is a senior editor with the Daily Wire Ash
short So in that case. Also, Eric Fattus, we see
mommy using the pool as a babysitter, while she actually
asked the hotel staff to let the child in so
she can have alone time before she retreats to the bar.
Speaker 12 (39:49):
That's correct in that case.
Speaker 8 (39:51):
You know, I'm also aware of a case where this
woman essentially just let her child walk around the neighborhood
for an hour or so longer and was charge with
child abuse in that scenario.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
So where is the line?
Speaker 9 (40:03):
You know?
Speaker 8 (40:03):
I understand that that we need attentive parents, but that
doesn't mean you need to have your eyes glued to
them every second of every day, especially if you've entrusted
their care to another.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Okay, number one, I don't trust your rendition of the
facts that a child walked for one hour and mom
was arrested. I'd like to know how old a child is,
and I'd like to point out that there's a big
difference in a child I don't know the age because
you conveniently left that fact out. A child walking in
its own neighborhood amongst neighbors, breathing air, and being left
(40:37):
alone in a life threatening situation water where you can die.
I mean, didn't you say Thomas Coin that a person,
much less a child can die in less than two
minutes in the water.
Speaker 9 (40:50):
That's correct, that fast?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yes, yes, doctor, So there's a huge difference in the
two scenarios you're laying out fattest. I mean, give me
something real if you want to, don't bring a knife
to a gunfight. Okay, I don't let you think about
that for just a moment. Try to figure out what
that means. The phone. In Dubaya's case, mommy's on the phone.
(41:14):
In this case, mommy's on the phone. So to doctor
Tom Griffiths, whats with that?
Speaker 13 (41:20):
Parents shouldn't be on the phone and parents, like kids,
are addicted to their phones. There's water parks in Western
Australia that have the parents shoot a QR code as
they enter the facility and it says welcome to our pool.
Now get off your phone and watch your kids. We
have to be more aggressive about warning parents, adults, caregivers
(41:45):
to stay off their phones, turn them off and keep
them away because they've got to not only be off
their phones, but they have to be in the water
with their children. The phones are a problem, Apple watches
are a problem. Any handheld technology around the water is
a real problem because we don't have enough discipline to
stay off them.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Katherine Bodom leaves her eleven month old daughter, Cecilia and
her two and a half year old son alone in
the bathtub with the water running, to go downstairs to
shop online for shoes. Botom's ten year old daughter says
after nineteen minutes, the two year old boy comes down
the stairs saying there's a problem. Mom stops shopping long
enough to go upstairs and find Cecilia unconscious and turning blue.
(42:28):
Botom is charged with second degree manslaughter.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Eric fat Is joining US high profile criminal defense lawyer.
What about that mommy shopping online for shoes while the
children are in the bathtub. I guess that's mommy getting
time out and a reprieve, as you call it.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
I think what it goes to show is that these
cases are factually dependent.
Speaker 12 (42:48):
We've got to take them on a case by case basis.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
There weren't any lifeguards in that bathroom where those children
were in the bathtub, and so certainly there are different
facts that we'll have bearing on each individual case. But
the facts here suggest that there are other folks responsible
besides just this single mother who lost her son.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Karen, start joining me psychologists, Karen, the fixation on iPhones,
shopping online while your children are in the water. I
guess the next thing Fats is going to argue is
that mommies and dads were addicted to their cell phones.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
Well, this is crazy, because people are addicted to their
cell phones, Nancy, but when it comes to their children,
there's nothing more important than your children. So we're talking
about really someone who's narcissistic and not equipped to be parenting.
Not an hour, I don't care how long you're on
(43:44):
your phone and your child is in the water without
you being there, and you're taking pictures.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And let me ask you this, Karen start. I don't
mean just being rude and having your phone out at
the dinner table. I mean it is being online addiction
like alcohol or drugs, where it completely takes over your
life and you're unaware of what's happening around you. I mean,
I know it's a bad habit, but is that I
(44:11):
don't see that it can be an addiction to that extent.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
Well, I don't know. It's sort of becoming an addiction,
but that's really not what we're talking about here. I
don't think we're talking about someone who's addicted. I think
we're talking about someone who's narcissistic and self involved.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
But I'm saying, Karen, that I could see a defense
when their first defense fails, their second defense fails. First
they're going to say the lifeguards were cooking uros okay.
Then they're going to say there were not enough lifeguards.
Then they're going to say they didn't put the life
jacket on my child because we now know there were
(44:48):
lifejackets there that the child wasn't wearing. Then they're going
to be witnesses claiming she was on her phone. I
know it's far fetched. I know it sounds laughable in stark,
but I could see her arguing that she has a
phone addiction, a digital addiction, social media addiction, and that
(45:11):
it blinded her to what was happening around her, including
her child drowning. Do I think it makes sense? No,
of course not. But what else can she say?
Speaker 6 (45:20):
Yeah, but I don't know anything in the DSM right now, Nancy,
which actually says the Diagnostic Manual for Psychologists and psychiatrists,
but it actually says that there's such a thing as
a phone a social media addiction. They're making that up.
I don't see how Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
You heard it, Eric Fattis, don't tune up. Second verse
same as the first. And there's more. It happens every day,
Olivia Miller.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Listen, No, we're not trying to treat dios.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
Maybe as the rest of my life, for this break
magm Son, I would never imagine him.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Like we are literally just having the first time I
did here today.
Speaker 10 (46:03):
Well, I believe in like heaven and stuff.
Speaker 8 (46:07):
I don't believe that it was his time.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, I don't believe that anything knows clever right, he
was supposed to come up. What is she saying? Okay,
First of all, she says, I think that she's being
treated like an animal in that case. Fattest, as I
was talking about the digital trail of evidence that mom
(46:30):
was on the phone for twenty one straight minutes before
calling nine to one one her child died. Thoughts more
of a little break, a little time out for mom.
Speaker 12 (46:42):
You know, I think that there's a distinction there.
Speaker 8 (46:44):
On the phone for twenty minutes, you're actively engaged in
a conversation, You're listening, you're receiving information, you're putting information
out there as opposed to just sort of scrolling one's phone.
I think anyone who has a phone would say those
are different activities. Now doesn't mean that one person should
be guilty and one person shouldn't be guilty. I can't
go that far, but I'm saying that there are little
factual nuances that matter in each of these cases.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
You know, Elaine Attidiaz joining US investigative reporter. I've been
taking a look at the defendant in the case in chief,
and like Karen Stark said, there's no indication that she
is upset about her so uncertainly she must be. I mean,
I'm just maybe projecting onto her, but she seems pretty calm,
cool and collected talking about how it's everybody else's fault.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
There is never a perfect victim. There's no rule book
on how grieving parents react.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I think, oh, wait, are you saying that mom is
the victim?
Speaker 5 (47:40):
I am saying, I'm just giving you facts that you
just said.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
There's no perfect victim. The victim in this case is
a three year old child that was left alone in
the water at a crowded water park while mommy took
selfies and reapplied lipstick. That's the victim. Mommy's not the
victim here, but.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
She's being charged.
Speaker 18 (48:02):
She is a defendant, and so that's right, you know,
you know, and so she is going to come at them.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
With everything she has because this is serious. She can
go to prison for life, and so you know she's
going to go after.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I know that she's the possibility of life behind bars.
Am I supposed to feel bad about that? What I
feel bad about is a three year old? You know,
to you, doctor Coyne, what is it like to drown?
What does a victim go through when they drowned? Doctor
Thomas COINMT. So that's a little boy.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
To me, I can only imagine it must be horrible fear.
I mean in that moment, the anxiety that you are
wrought with because you know, as you begin especially to
aspirate or inhale water and suddenly realize you can't reade.
I mean me, just as a person with asthma, I
know I have a really bad asthma attack. My anxiety
picks up pretty fast if I realize I can't breathe.
And so in that moment that I just just must
(49:00):
have had complete fear and horror.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It must have been horrible, you know, doctor Coyne, I
recalled distinctly two incidents of near drowning. One when I
was about three and my mom was talking to another
lady about four feet away from me the moment I
went underwater. She jumped in in her clothes and saved me. Okay,
(49:24):
I was just sitting on the steps of a pool
and was playing a game and jumped off the step
and went immediately underwater and didn't know how to swim
yet she saved me. The second time, I was about
thirteen at a big lake and went under and that feeling.
I immediately gulped in a lot of water. It was
(49:45):
way over my head with a lake, you know, the
surface at the bottom is uneven and I was walking
out and immediately went under. And I remember the feeling
you're describing, and it was scary. It was horrific. I remember,
like it happened yesterday, Doctor Coin.
Speaker 9 (50:01):
Yeah, I had the same thing. Happened when I was
two on the Jersey Shore. I had a wave that
took me under. Thankfully my father was watching me. It
came ran over and pulled me right out right away.
But I can still remember that if I closed my eyes,
just the fear of the moment, I think it stays
with you for life.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. According to witnesses, Mommy is
all dolled up, taking countless selfies and singing into her
iPhone while her top son, just three years old, drowns,
and tonight she's suing the water park. Good evening, I'm
(00:24):
Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
with us. The water park just got sued. But according
to witnesses, Mommy was in a completely different area, left
her son alone for over an hour while she took
selfies and sang into her iPhone. I never thought about
putting on a mouthful of red lipstick to go to
(00:45):
the water park with the twins, but to each her own.
Joining us an all star panel to make sense of
what we are hearing right now, this is what we
understand as to how the day started.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's a beautiful Mother's Day weekend when Jessica Weaver and
her three year old son Anthony arrive at El Paso's
Camp Cohen water Park. The little boy is playing in
a four feet deep section of the pool while his
mother is lying out in the sun. Jessica entertains herself
with her phone while Anthony is seen eating chips and
spitting them out in the water as he plays. His
(01:22):
mother doesn't seem to notice or care as other parents
get frustrated at the disgusting addition to the water.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Joining me and All Star panel straight out to Elaine
Aadiaz investigative reporter, Alaine, thank you for being with us. Okay, So,
the first sign of trouble was when all the other
moms see the little three year old spitting his food
back into the water.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Right.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
In fact, one mother actually called the police and reported this,
this is not something you want to endure after spending
all this money to go into a water park have
a good time, you have an expectation of clean water.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
You know, although when you know there are a bunch
of children in the water, I mean aligne. They all
tete in the pool. So I'm not sure what potato
chips spit back in the water, how that's going to
change anything. But it's very overt that the child is there.
It's not the child's fault. And how long did that go?
Speaker 5 (02:24):
Well, go ahead, I mean, I think that's a good example.
Speaker 4 (02:27):
That his mother was not monitoring him, right, Because yes,
it is a huge water park, has a capacity of
you know, hosting fourteen hundred people, and so you know,
kids are having a good time, But where was Jessica Weaver,
the boy's mother, while this is happening, And so you know,
(02:49):
he's out there plane and she's on her phone the
entire time, according to witnesses.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
You know align On Idias joining us high profile investigative
reporter Aligne. When the children, my twins were taughts, I
remember specifically being at Disney and I think they have
something called typhoon, lagoon something like that, and every X
number of seconds waves come out. They actually make waves,
(03:20):
and I kept telling them no, no, no, no, you
can't go there. They wanted to get in so badly.
I was a nervous wreck watching the trying to watch
two at the same time when those waves would come.
The thought of them being alone in the water, I
mean to Karen started joining me, our renowned psychologists joining
us from the Manhattan Jurisdiction, TV radio trauma expert. I
(03:44):
guess that's a personal fear because I had a water
accident as a young girl and almost drowned. That said,
don't we as humans have an innate fear of the
water where we're kind of on our guard.
Speaker 6 (04:00):
Well, it's not natural for us to just dive in
the water. And usually when you're very young, unlike what
happened to you, Nancy, you wind up taking away that
fear goes away. You learn how to slim or be
in the water, to do something that keeps you alive. However,
in this situation, we're talking about a three year old
(04:20):
and a parent that's not being vigilant, and that goes
against that innate desire to protect your child and make
sure they're not.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
Going to be in danger.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
You know, we're learning a lot about what witnesses are saying,
but listen to this.
Speaker 7 (04:34):
The fun sounds of children playing at Camp Cohen water
Park is interrupted by lifeguard's blowing whistles telling everyone to
get out of the pool. An unconscious boy not wearing
a life jacket is pulled out of a four foot
deep section of water. Multiple signs at Camp Cohen state
that children six and younger must be directly attended by
a swimming adult at all times, and must be supervised
(04:58):
by an adult within arms reach. Parents gather around as guards,
but again life saving measures, but the victim's parents aren't found.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
You know another thing. Eric Fattus joining me, criminal defense attorney,
civil litigator founding partner Varner fattest Elite Legal. Eric, you
know you can't judge a book by its cover. Not judging,
don't care. I have seen defendants that are gorgeous and beautiful.
(05:28):
I've seen them looking like they have just rolled out
from under a bridge or just rolled out of bed.
I've seen all sorts of defendants, but that is certainly
a look for the water park. A mouthful of red lipstick,
the long fake nails, the face full of makeup, the
sunglasses back on the hair. I'm not going to refer
(05:51):
to her declotage. That's none of my business. But Eric,
it doesn't look like she ever intended to get in
the water.
Speaker 8 (05:57):
Well, you know, in looking at her appearance, you know
that could just mean that she likes to be presentable
when she goes out. Look, she's a woman in her thirties,
she's a single mother. She was just going to get
a reprieve of being a single mother by entrusting the
care of her child to this amusement park. And then
lo and behold, here we are. I think there's another
story here.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Eric, question, do you have children?
Speaker 9 (06:20):
I do not?
Speaker 10 (06:21):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Okay, yeah, because what you just said is completely crazy.
You just said taking your child to a water park
is a reprieve for her? Hl n No, uh huh.
I've never been more freaked out in my life than
when I have the children at a water park. Not now,
(06:42):
but when they were this age. One time I dove
into the water while the twins were with the swimming instructure.
The instructor had John David Lucy's screen. Mommy, I was
fully dressed. I just got off h ol Anthropete's say
straight in choose the works. What do you mean taking
(07:03):
your child to a water park is a reprieve for mommy.
I've never been so jacked up in my life. I
might as well have been trying to triple homicide. Then
seeing those two in the water and it's my duty
to watch them. You think I trust some sixteen year
old boy to save my child? No, what are you
talking about?
Speaker 11 (07:22):
Man?
Speaker 8 (07:23):
You know, getting a break from single mother does not
mean that that you just completely ignore the child's well
being in safety.
Speaker 12 (07:29):
That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is every
single mother every year. It is entitled what.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Are you saying getting a break from being a mom
at a water park?
Speaker 8 (07:38):
I'm saying that everyone is entitled to a little breather
here and there, and a common activity would be to
take your child to some amusement facility like this, and
that's not unreasonable to me.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
Eric, you know you're not gonna get away from saying
this was a reprieve for mommy, But I'm gonna give
you a moment to regroup and gather your thoughts. Joining me,
Doctor Tom Griffiths joining us from State College in Pennsylvania,
Drowning Expert, President, founder Aquatic Safety Research Group, co host
of The Drowning Files. Okay, that just scared the crap
(08:12):
out of me, The Drowning Files, Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Vision
app author of Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
and the complete swimming pool Reference. It goes on and on,
Doctor Tom Griffith, thank you for being with us. Can
you understand what Eric Fattis just said? Because if he
(08:35):
says that in front of the civil jury, they're gonna
laugh him straight out of the courtroom. Mommy had a reprieve,
got a break from being a single mom by dumping
her child at a water park and then singing into
the cell phone and taking selfies. Uh huh.
Speaker 13 (08:50):
Unfortunately, Eric is right in some ways that's the biggest
fear of lifeguards and water park managers. Parents come to
the facility assuming that the lifeguards are perfect and they
are going to guarantee patron safety. But lifeguards, no matter
how well trained they are, no matter how vigilant they are,
(09:14):
they can't watch every child all the time. They can
only watch one child at a time. So in this case,
you're using human beings to watch other human beings, and
this woman was not watching apparently based upon eyewitness accounts.
And the lifeguards are looking, but sometimes they're not seeing.
(09:35):
Even the best trains lifeguards, we wouldn't be here today
if the child was in a properly fitting coast Guard
a proof life jackets. We've never found a single child
drowning in a water park who is wearing a properly
fitting coast Guard approved life jacket.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
No are Tom Griffins. I know you've written all these
books about swimming, but I think that's total bas to
say that people go into a water park assuming they
don't have responsibility for their own three year old child.
Speaker 13 (10:06):
They parents subconsciously rely upon the lifeguards. Not all parents,
many parents are great. In fact, most parents are great.
But when you see these professionally dressed and very active
lifeguards pointing and blowing their whistles, you're assume that you
have this layer of protection that's impenetrable, and it's not.
(10:28):
No one's perfect. Whenever you have human beings watching other
human beings, we're gonna miss some. But most parents are good,
vigilant parents like you certainly were with your children. But
not everyone is like that. And so Eric does speak
or address some of those adults.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Okay, well we'll see if jury agrees with doctor Tom
Griffiths and Eric fattest. I will say this Fattest, and
just because it is done doesn't mean it should be done.
And I go uh with the twins to our community pool.
I see a whole string of drunk moms. Now I
(11:08):
don't even see any dads anywhere. I don't know where
they are, but I see a string of drunk moms
almost asleep getting a sun tan. I guess I don't
know the sun causes cancer. But that said, and all
the children are in the pool. I mean, I feel
like I have to watch them. But just because they
(11:30):
do that doesn't mean it's right.
Speaker 8 (11:33):
It doesn't, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's criminal either.
Speaker 12 (11:36):
That's the distinction.
Speaker 8 (11:37):
There are varying levels of attention that a parents may
give this in this scenario, the criminal law does not
require them to be super superman and superwoman parents. And
that's just not what the legal threshold is.
Speaker 1 (11:50):
We look at you. They don't have to be super
mom to keep your eyes open and off your cell phone,
to watch your child in the water over its head.
That's that's not super mom. That is a normal mom.
That's a responsible mom.
Speaker 8 (12:06):
Well, I saw in that video you played earlier where
mother Jessica Weaver, moments before her child died, apparently was
filming her child going down the slide, and so to
say she was completely an attentive seems contradictory to the evidence.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Defense attorney Eric Fattus says, it's okay if mommy comes
to a water park with her three year old child
that obviously can't swim, for a reprieve, for a time out,
for a respite for mommy to chill while her son
paddles around in the water and drowns. Well, the district
(12:39):
attorney disagrees.
Speaker 14 (12:41):
Listen, there's numerous witnesses that have come forward who have
given their account that they were there at the park,
they were watching, they saw her not paying attention to
her child, and that the child ended up drowning.
Speaker 7 (12:56):
Witness one said a woman matching Weaver's description was on
her sitting outside of the pool for over an hour,
saying she was never looking up or paying attention to anything.
Witness too said she saw a boy without his mother
and that she saw Weaver laying down and singing along
to her phone for approximately seven minutes before the toddler
(13:17):
was pulled out of the water. Witness iree said a
woman matching Weaver's description encouraged the toddler to go into
the pool before walking away and leaving the boy by himself.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Some of that from our friends at Kate Fox fourteen
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace straight out to Elaine Autadiaz
joining US investigative reporter, Elaine, all these witnesses are coming forward,
(13:48):
what is your understanding of the timeline that happened that day?
Speaker 4 (13:52):
So they go to the water park. It's a soft opening,
which means they're kind of getting ready their big, you know,
grand opening was going to be two weeks later for
Memorial Day weekend, and so that day they go, there's
(14:12):
about four hundred and sixty six people at this park,
which actually holds one thy four hundred and sixty people. Now,
the thing is she the mom goes, finds a lounge chair,
hangs out, and this is witness after witness after witness
tells investigators that she was not paying attention to her
(14:38):
boy while he was going through the lazy river and
the other thing.
Speaker 5 (14:43):
To note a lazy river.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
Wait a minute, elne out Adias, did you say lazy river?
Those currents are strong? What was this baby able to
get into a lazy river? It's not lazy.
Speaker 4 (14:59):
It's lazy meaning you don't have to do any work
because it will take you.
Speaker 5 (15:05):
The current takes you around and around.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
And he did not have a life jacket, according to
witnesses and police.
Speaker 5 (15:16):
And you know, at three years old.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
There is a sign that says children under six should
have life jackets.
Speaker 5 (15:26):
So you know, again something that's going to be brought
up in court. I'm sure you know.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Faddess Jackie here in the studio with me, saved two
children at the pool when she was there with her
little boy. When mommy's and dads weren't watching. I've saved
one when mommy wasn't watching. Get you know where mommy was.
She was on the side of the pool drinking alcohol
(15:53):
in a big red solo cut. Okay, I could smell it.
I say, not judging, but I am judging here because
in this case, the child is dead. Did you hear
what Elaine out Adiez just said. There are signs everywhere
that says under six years old, your child must wear
(16:14):
a life jacket.
Speaker 8 (16:15):
Well, according to Jessica Weaver's attorney, the company actually prohibits
people from bringing their own life jackets. You'd have to
use the life jackets there. This was the first day
of this place was open. It's unclear how many extra
life jackets were available and what the process was for
distributing those to people who enter. Perhaps they should have
been distributed immediately upon entry.
Speaker 12 (16:34):
That did not happen. And thank Kevin's you were there
to save those kids.
Speaker 8 (16:38):
That this company should hire you all as lifeguards because
the lifeguards who were there failed in their role of
protecting these jugs.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
I'm sorry, I can't do that. I'm busy dealing with you.
Faddish Elaine Aidias, that's not true because according to not
only the police investigation, but what the cityvale Passe was
saying back, there were plenty of water jackets, right.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
There was a third of the people in there in
the water park. So the city is claiming that there
were more than enough life jackets, and the mother is
saying that there were not.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Another witness saw Jessica Weaver sitting by the pool on
the outside concrete area which separated the Lazy River and
the jungle gym with a slide, and that Weaver was
not in the water at any point and he never
saw her with a child. What caught his attention was
the way Weaver was acting, how she was all dulled up,
sitting outside the pool on her phone and taking pictures
(17:38):
the entire time he saw her. The man said, when
the child was pulled out of the water, Weaver was
still in the same spot and had not moved. She
only got in the water after her son was pulled out.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
I can tell you this, Eric fattasaw. You're a criminal
defense attorney, boy, does she need one? The digital evidence
in this case is going to be the steak in
mommy's heart. Of course, she's presumed innocent if and until
she is proven guilty in a court of law. But
if this witness is correct, and I have no reason
(18:09):
to believe all of these witnesses lined up against her, Okay,
I love arguing that to the jury. What you believe
him or her over the eight witnesses that don't even
know her? Are they all lying and she's the only
one telling the truth? Okay, you could argue that to
a jury, But how are you going to argue fattest
(18:30):
the digital evidence? And what I mean is when the
alarm is raised, I guarantee you there's a time and
accurate time as to when the child was first spotted
face down in the water. They're going to take her phone,
or they should take her phone and look at what
(18:51):
time she was taking selfies. Did you see that selfie
of her with a mouthful of red lipstick? Okay, that
selfie didn't take itself. Okay, she's doing that. That's what's
happening right there while her son is drowning. And they're
going to match up the time that she was listening
to music and singing into her iPhone and taking selfies.
(19:14):
They're going to match it up to the exact time
her little boy died.
Speaker 8 (19:19):
That'll be an issue with which defense has to contend.
But what was everyone else doing during that time too,
that's also important, right, And it turns out some of
the lifeguards were directed to be cooking churos and attending
to the sour cream and making sure the place makes money.
This is a matter of corporate greed that really infused
this horrible set of circumstances and contributed substantially to what
(19:41):
happened here. So certainly her phone is is a problem.
But what these folks were doing in the concessions, these lifeguards,
that's also a problem.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I don't know that I would call her phone a problem.
I don't think her phone was the problem. I think
she's the problem. And you're saying, what about all the
other people? Okay, Eric, I hope you don't mean passers
by or other people lounging outside the pool with their
(20:09):
own children, taking care of their own children. I assume
you're saying that the lifeguards were the ones busy cooking truros.
Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 12 (20:18):
According to Jesscuaver's attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yes, okay. Can I ask you, do you believe that
the lifeguards, according to her, that were in doing kitchen duty?
Are responsible for Weaver not watching her child? You're saying
the tot is their responsibility, not her responsibility.
Speaker 8 (20:41):
What I'm saying is we're talking about, in the criminal
law context, who caused this death, and but for these
lifeguards not doing their job, they would have swooped in
and done what they were paid to do, what they
were ostensibly trained to do, although there's some question.
Speaker 12 (20:56):
I swear they got adequate training whatsoever.
Speaker 8 (20:59):
And so we're talking about causation here, and we're talking
about blame, and I think that we need to take
a broader look at that when we're talking about all
the actors involved and how this culminated into this orrible event.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Eric Fadas, this is a yes.
Speaker 11 (21:11):
No.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Do you think I just fell off the turnip truck? No? Okay,
that was wise because you are trying to mix civil
law with criminal law. Causation and a nexus between actions
and results are for civil liability. What we're looking at
right here is mother's criminal activity, neglect and abandoning her
(21:38):
child in a dangerous situation. Again, it's just like throwing
you in the ring with a bunch of Rottwilers and
saying have a nice day. And then singing along with
your iPhone.
Speaker 12 (21:49):
Fancy.
Speaker 8 (21:50):
Throughout the course of human history, there have been horrible
accidents that happen to children while they're in their parents' care.
Not every single one of those accidents is a prosecutable murder.
Sometimes these are just horrible events that happen, and it's
more appropriate to litigate them in the civil realm. And
that's what the mother is trying to do with her
lawsuit against the city of el Pass.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Defense attorney Eric Fattis calls it mommy's time out, mommy's reprieve. Well,
the district attorney calls it a first degree felony. Joining
me now, special guest Doctor Thomas Coyne, Chief and Medical
Examiner and District two in the state of Florida, which
(22:30):
is packed with water parks, forensic pathologists, neuropathologist, toxicologists. You
can find him at doctor tmcoin. Doctor Coin, thank you
for being with us. You just heard Elaine Autodias report
that the child, according to witnesses, was alone for about
an hour, where other witnesses observed later identified to be
(22:51):
mommy taking selfies, lying in the sun, singing into her
iPhone and more anything but being with the boy an
hour Dodger coin. How long does it take for someone
to drown?
Speaker 9 (23:07):
Very fast? Actually, you know, for an adult, the loss
of consciousness probably occurs that around a time when you
can no longer hold your breath, So for adults that
may take about three minutes, but for kids much faster
than that, probably in around one and a half minutes.
But that may even be faster if the child has
in a panic and starts to aspirate or breathe in water,
(23:28):
which will cause you know, a spasm of the larynx,
preventing further breathing. So I mean it could possibly be seconds.
But on the other hand, we're also assuming that this
child was awake when it became submerged. But playing around
in a water park like this is very common for
a child to get concussed, elbowed by another child, fall
comes down a slide, hits his head, so he maybe
(23:49):
knocked unconscious and then become submerged, and then of course
death probably occurs within three minutes. The heart will stop
once not enough oxygen is going to the brain as
well as at the heart.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Doctor coin. The state of Florida is dotted with water
parks and pools for children. How many swimming deaths do
you see a year approximately, Well, i'll tell you.
Speaker 9 (24:13):
In terms of our practice, it's the second leading cause
of accidental death amongst children. We see a large volume
of pool related deaths. Most of the cases we see
are in home pools. You know, the classic story as
a parent becomes distracted maybe with other children, allowing let's
say a toddler to gain access to the outdoor Lenai,
(24:35):
and then they fall into a pool. These are course
of preventable deaths. In most cases, it's because the proper
safety measures weren't in place. But yeah, unfortunately, every year
in Florida, we see a large number of these unfortunate deaths.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Doctor Coin, we were talking about how long it takes
for a person to drown, and you mentioned that the
child could have been concussed or had fallen asleep in
the sun after playing the water for so long. Let's
pretend that he was not concussed and that he was
not over exerted from playing by himself for so long
(25:11):
in a typical drowning. How long does that take?
Speaker 9 (25:15):
Generally it would take around I say a child this
age probably a minute to a minute and a half.
And the reason being is because once the child goes
into the water and becomes submerged, of course your initial
reflex is to hold your breath, but then panic ensues.
Your heart rate goes up and it's natural for you
to try to take a breath, and water is aspirated
into the mouth and that causes a reflex closing of
(25:38):
your larynx which would stop breathing. And so that really
the time to loss of consciousness is how much oxygen
reserve does this child have. This child is very young,
high metabolic rate, probably running around all day, so I
would assume that this process is much smaller. So I
would bet you probably in about a minute of being
submerged too, lost consciousness and then just under the water
(26:01):
waiting for someone to find him an extract.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Doctor Tom Griffiths agree or disagree?
Speaker 13 (26:05):
Well, I agree with the doctor definitely. It can be
as little as ninety seconds. Traditional drownings may take for
adults four to six minutes. But it's he's spot on.
It can happen in seconds and again anywhere from ninety
seconds in my mind, to a longer period of four
to six minutes. But younger kids usually go sooner than later.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So doctor Tom Griffiths. Knowing that a child can drown
from A to Z start to finish in less than
two minutes, you still stand by your theory. Agreeing with
Fattest that it's okay for mommy to be on her
cell phone taking selfies for an hour, I did.
Speaker 13 (26:50):
I did not agree with Fattest. I just agreed with
him stating that sometimes parents do this negligent behavior. I
don't agree that it's acceptable parents do this. I'm trying
to point out that we have well trained lifeguards in
good numbers at these water parks, and the training agencies
like Ellis and Associates are excellent, but they can't overcome
(27:13):
parents who neglect their children. I don't agree with Fattus.
I'm just agree that they're not negligent. I'm agreeing that
this does happen. This is the important point. Parents need
to watch their children. I agree with the way you
behave when your twins are at the water park.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Well, you know, I'd like your objective opinion, doctor Tom Griffiths,
because I'm overly protected because in my world, not only
can something conceivably go wrong, it will go wrong, because
in my world, it's gone wrong before. After the murder
(27:52):
of my fiance, so I see the world in a
different way. Okay, I think it's very likely that something
will go wrong, But for normal people, what is your advice?
I mean, you've written all of these books, Doctor Tom Lifeguard,
Vision app Doctor Tom's Lifeguard Chronicles, Safer Beaches, Better Beaches,
(28:16):
and the complete swimming pool Reference, which is pretty amazing.
You can find Tom at Aquaticsafetygroup dot com. That sounds
a lot like the group we found to teach the
kid our children to swim. We went through swimming twice
when they were about I don't know, two and a half,
(28:38):
then when they were a little older, and then I
went with them for both of them to get their
Scout Merit badge in swimming, which was no easy thing,
was very rigorous. In fact, Doctor Griffiths, I know this
was overdoing it. But when they went out of town
to scout camp, I jumped in the water and did
(29:03):
the know. I know they must have been humiliated, and
did the swim test with them that would allow them
to be around the water. You know. For the rest
of the week I was so worried, frankly about my
daughter being able to have the stamina to finish the
swim test for Scout Camp because there's really a long test.
(29:25):
I had to stop in the middle of dog paddle
before I could finish the thing. So reasonably speaking for
a normal person, what do you advise at a water park?
Because that's a lot different than a pool in my mind,
because water parks are crazy. There are so many children,
there's a slide, there's music, there's people yelling, there's people eating,
(29:49):
there's a lot of commotion, their birthday parties going on
that people are singing, happy. It's crazy. It's a lot
different from just being alone with your child in the pool.
What should parents do?
Speaker 13 (30:02):
You're right, there's so many distractions at a water park.
Number one, they should put their cell phone away. We
like to say texting is neglecting. If you're on your phone,
you're not watching your kids. If you're taking video of
your child, you're really not watching your kid. We've had
we've lost children while the mother was taking photos of
(30:22):
their child. But a coast guard, a proof life jacket
I believe, we believe should be required at these water parks.
We don't think parents should be given the choice. I
know everyone likes free choice, but for non swimming children
under the age of six six and under or under
forty eight inches tall, they should be in a properly
fitting coast guard prove life jacket, because the life jacket
(30:46):
is more vigilant than any parent or any lifeguard could
ever be. So we believe in a note and float
mentality where you note your child as a non swimmer
and you float them in a coast guard a prove
life jacket.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
You know what's interesting, I was talking about that community
to be a pool where all those moms were out
getting a son tan cancer and their children were unattended
to be in the pool. I believe you should have
a swimming test before you're in the pool. But that said,
a lot of the children are too young to be
(31:18):
able to swim. They should be in the kiddie pool.
But I want you to hear doctor what mommy has
to say.
Speaker 10 (31:26):
Like watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
That's my friends at k Fox fourteen. But Elaine Autodiaz,
she says it was just like watching a slow train wreck.
She wasn't watching even when medics were working on her son.
He was pulled out of the water, and all the
other parents were gathering around. They didn't know who the
mom was, much less the dad. Dad wasn't there, but
(31:56):
they didn't even know who the mom was. So she
wasn't watching any slow train wreck, right.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
Witness after witness say that she was lounging. She was
just staring at her phone. I believe one witness even
had she stared into her phone for seven minutes, and
that is just repeated over and over and for the
(32:27):
longest time, she had no idea what her child was doing.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
How would a witness know that mommy was looking at
her phone for seven straight minutes.
Speaker 4 (32:36):
Because she's all dolled up at a water park. And
I get it, you know, especially if you're going with
your girlfriends, you're turning it into a thing. You're gonna
get dressed up in your best swimsuit. But she's a
mother to a three year old, and she was, you know,
(32:57):
all dulled up as they say, and you know, I
mean she's wearing this yellow top. I mean you cannot
look away. And so I think you know, someone watched
her for seven minutes, because that's what was reported to police.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Crimes tours with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 15 (33:26):
Investigators looking into the Mother's Day weekend drowning death of
three year old Anthony Malave are stunned to find out
the mother of the toddler is filing a lawsuit against
Destination al Paso, the company that runs the city's water parks,
and against the City of El Paso, alleging gross negligence
and wrongful death. The lawsuit has been filed on behalf
of Jessica Weaver by a Houston law firm and claims
(33:47):
that during the park's soft opening, the city and Destination
al Paso we're too concerned with packing the water park
with people and ensuring that the live band was playing.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Well, let's hear it from the Horse's Mouth.
Speaker 10 (33:58):
City.
Speaker 16 (33:59):
You know had this soft opening to get their operations going,
but it cost my son because they weren't ready.
Speaker 10 (34:07):
They weren't ready.
Speaker 16 (34:08):
For a drowning and more children trying to save children.
And I understand, you know, they're like they're young lifeguards,
but at least have someone who's done this before.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Karen start with me. Renowned psychologists joining us from the
Manhattan jurisdiction. Karen, when I analyzed her words, the city
had a soft opening but it cost my son. They
weren't ready. She goes on to say that the lifeguards
looked young and inexperienced. I mean, when you go to
(34:42):
a water park with a single most important thing in
your world, which is your child, shouldn't you look at
the lifeguards and you, as the parent, assess whether they
are capable.
Speaker 6 (34:56):
Not only that, Nancy, of course, the lifeguards should have
been trained in However, this child should have been wearing
a vest. She doesn't even mention anything about a life vest.
Speaker 5 (35:07):
You've been at pools. I've been at pools.
Speaker 6 (35:09):
All little babies, three year olds are wearing those water wings.
In addition to it, it's very interesting to me that
she's all dialed up at that pool, but during this
interview she looks much more conservative, pulled together, and it
doesn't seem like there's any grief. I've seen so many
(35:30):
parents talk about dead children and they're tearing up and
crying while they're talking.
Speaker 12 (35:35):
About that child.
Speaker 6 (35:36):
And here I see, honestly, the same narcissism, the narcissistic
neglect that you see at that pool, and somebody who
is very composed, ready to defend herself and deflect the blame.
Speaker 1 (35:51):
You know, what I think you're right, Karen start. Let's
take a look at mommy. Here she is at the
pool as opposed to speaking for her lawsuit.
Speaker 10 (36:01):
Listen watching a slow train wreck because they weren't prepared.
They didn't know. Really, it was panicking and chaos.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
From our friends at Kay Fox fourteen. And now listen
to Mommy's next claim.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Two months after Jessica Weaver filed her wrongful death lawsuit
and almost four months after Anthony's death, thirty five year
old Jessica Weaver is arrested in her home state of
Indiana on a fugitive warrant out of El Paso, Texas.
Waving extradition.
Speaker 1 (36:30):
She is transported to.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
El Paso, where she is let out of jail with
a one hundred thousand dollars bond. Weaver's attorneys claimed the
arrest of Weaver is retaliatory tactics for her lawsuit.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
Okay, Elene Autodios, let me understand. She's arrested and now
the civil attorney, which is a lawyer not defending you
on a crime, but is seeking money damages for you.
The civil lawyer is claiming Mommy was arrested out of
revenge for the lawsuit.
Speaker 4 (37:02):
Well, let's take a look at the timeline. So Anthony,
three year old Anthony dies on May thirteenth, twenty twenty three.
Then about six weeks later, on June thirtieth, the civil
lawsuit is filed. And then September fifth, twenty twenty three,
(37:25):
she's arrested. But then in Texas she's just arrested. Her
indictment came in December, so it's been it's been a
bit of a timeline. And so they are saying that
because she filed a million dollar lawsuit against the city
of El Paso, that they in turn went and arrested her.
Speaker 1 (37:48):
Okay, she got indicted.
Speaker 17 (37:50):
Listen, Jessica Weaver indicted in the death of her three
year old son, and if convicted, could face life in prison.
The indictment states Weaver failed to provide care for her son,
did not give her toddler a life vest, did not
get in the water with her son, she did not
follow park rules, she did not keep her son in
her sight, and allowed Anthony in the water soon after eating.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
As Mommy blames the city of El Paso and the lifeguards.
This is what the district attorney has to say.
Speaker 14 (38:18):
Lifeguards at our water parks are not babysitters. They are
there to try to provide life saving treatment, but they're
not there to babysit. It is a parent's responsibility to
take care of your children.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Now from our friends that Kate Fox at fourteen, it's
not the first time that a mom has been criminally
charged for ignoring their child in the water.
Speaker 11 (38:46):
Ayas allegedly asked the hotel staff to open this indoor
pool so Caitlin could swim. The workers warned her there
was no lifeguard on duty, mom, says a watcher. Meanwhile,
Ericabias has a five month old son that she left
alone in the hotel room. Still five month old boy
left alone in the hotel room. Seven year old girl
(39:07):
left alone at the pool while mom goes to the bar.
Bias went to check on the little girl. They found
her quote floating lifeless in the pool, according to the
district attorney, But instead of leaping right in to get
her daughter, Bias took her time, allegedly removing her shoes
and socks and making sure her phone won't get wet
before jumping in to save her daughter.
Speaker 1 (39:27):
That is a senior editor with the Daily Wire Ash
short So in that case. Also, Eric Fattus, we see
mommy using the pool as a babysitter, while she actually
asked the hotel staff to let the child in so
she can have alone time before she retreats to the bar.
Speaker 12 (39:49):
That's correct in that case.
Speaker 8 (39:51):
You know, I'm also aware of a case where this
woman essentially just let her child walk around the neighborhood
for an hour or so longer and was charge with
child abuse in that scenario.
Speaker 12 (40:02):
So where is the line?
Speaker 9 (40:03):
You know?
Speaker 8 (40:03):
I understand that that we need attentive parents, but that
doesn't mean you need to have your eyes glued to
them every second of every day, especially if you've entrusted
their care to another.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
Okay, number one, I don't trust your rendition of the
facts that a child walked for one hour and mom
was arrested. I'd like to know how old a child is,
and I'd like to point out that there's a big
difference in a child I don't know the age because
you conveniently left that fact out. A child walking in
its own neighborhood amongst neighbors, breathing air, and being left
(40:37):
alone in a life threatening situation water where you can die.
I mean, didn't you say Thomas Coin that a person,
much less a child can die in less than two
minutes in the water.
Speaker 9 (40:50):
That's correct, that fast?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yes, yes, doctor, So there's a huge difference in the
two scenarios you're laying out fattest. I mean, give me
something real if you want to, don't bring a knife
to a gunfight. Okay, I don't let you think about
that for just a moment. Try to figure out what
that means. The phone. In Dubaya's case, mommy's on the phone.
(41:14):
In this case, mommy's on the phone. So to doctor
Tom Griffiths, whats with that?
Speaker 13 (41:20):
Parents shouldn't be on the phone and parents, like kids,
are addicted to their phones. There's water parks in Western
Australia that have the parents shoot a QR code as
they enter the facility and it says welcome to our pool.
Now get off your phone and watch your kids. We
have to be more aggressive about warning parents, adults, caregivers
(41:45):
to stay off their phones, turn them off and keep
them away because they've got to not only be off
their phones, but they have to be in the water
with their children. The phones are a problem, Apple watches
are a problem. Any handheld technology around the water is
a real problem because we don't have enough discipline to
stay off them.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Katherine Bodom leaves her eleven month old daughter, Cecilia and
her two and a half year old son alone in
the bathtub with the water running, to go downstairs to
shop online for shoes. Botom's ten year old daughter says
after nineteen minutes, the two year old boy comes down
the stairs saying there's a problem. Mom stops shopping long
enough to go upstairs and find Cecilia unconscious and turning blue.
(42:28):
Botom is charged with second degree manslaughter.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Eric fat Is joining US high profile criminal defense lawyer.
What about that mommy shopping online for shoes while the
children are in the bathtub. I guess that's mommy getting
time out and a reprieve, as you call it.
Speaker 8 (42:44):
I think what it goes to show is that these
cases are factually dependent.
Speaker 12 (42:48):
We've got to take them on a case by case basis.
Speaker 8 (42:51):
There weren't any lifeguards in that bathroom where those children
were in the bathtub, and so certainly there are different
facts that we'll have bearing on each individual case. But
the facts here suggest that there are other folks responsible
besides just this single mother who lost her son.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Karen, start joining me psychologists, Karen, the fixation on iPhones,
shopping online while your children are in the water. I
guess the next thing Fats is going to argue is
that mommies and dads were addicted to their cell phones.
Speaker 6 (43:23):
Well, this is crazy, because people are addicted to their
cell phones, Nancy, but when it comes to their children,
there's nothing more important than your children. So we're talking
about really someone who's narcissistic and not equipped to be parenting.
Not an hour, I don't care how long you're on
(43:44):
your phone and your child is in the water without
you being there, and you're taking pictures.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
And let me ask you this, Karen start. I don't
mean just being rude and having your phone out at
the dinner table. I mean it is being online addiction
like alcohol or drugs, where it completely takes over your
life and you're unaware of what's happening around you. I mean,
I know it's a bad habit, but is that I
(44:11):
don't see that it can be an addiction to that extent.
Speaker 6 (44:13):
Well, I don't know. It's sort of becoming an addiction,
but that's really not what we're talking about here. I
don't think we're talking about someone who's addicted. I think
we're talking about someone who's narcissistic and self involved.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
But I'm saying, Karen, that I could see a defense
when their first defense fails, their second defense fails. First
they're going to say the lifeguards were cooking uros okay.
Then they're going to say there were not enough lifeguards.
Then they're going to say they didn't put the life
jacket on my child because we now know there were
(44:48):
lifejackets there that the child wasn't wearing. Then they're going
to be witnesses claiming she was on her phone. I
know it's far fetched. I know it sounds laughable in stark,
but I could see her arguing that she has a
phone addiction, a digital addiction, social media addiction, and that
(45:11):
it blinded her to what was happening around her, including
her child drowning. Do I think it makes sense? No,
of course not. But what else can she say?
Speaker 6 (45:20):
Yeah, but I don't know anything in the DSM right now, Nancy,
which actually says the Diagnostic Manual for Psychologists and psychiatrists,
but it actually says that there's such a thing as
a phone a social media addiction. They're making that up.
I don't see how Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
You heard it, Eric Fattis, don't tune up. Second verse
same as the first. And there's more. It happens every day,
Olivia Miller.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
Listen, No, we're not trying to treat dios.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (45:54):
Maybe as the rest of my life, for this break
magm Son, I would never imagine him.
Speaker 5 (46:00):
Like we are literally just having the first time I
did here today.
Speaker 10 (46:03):
Well, I believe in like heaven and stuff.
Speaker 8 (46:07):
I don't believe that it was his time.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
Yeah, I don't believe that anything knows clever right, he
was supposed to come up. What is she saying? Okay,
First of all, she says, I think that she's being
treated like an animal in that case. Fattest, as I
was talking about the digital trail of evidence that mom
(46:30):
was on the phone for twenty one straight minutes before
calling nine to one one her child died. Thoughts more
of a little break, a little time out for mom.
Speaker 12 (46:42):
You know, I think that there's a distinction there.
Speaker 8 (46:44):
On the phone for twenty minutes, you're actively engaged in
a conversation, You're listening, you're receiving information, you're putting information
out there as opposed to just sort of scrolling one's phone.
I think anyone who has a phone would say those
are different activities. Now doesn't mean that one person should
be guilty and one person shouldn't be guilty. I can't
go that far, but I'm saying that there are little
factual nuances that matter in each of these cases.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
You know, Elaine Attidiaz joining US investigative reporter. I've been
taking a look at the defendant in the case in chief,
and like Karen Stark said, there's no indication that she
is upset about her so uncertainly she must be. I mean,
I'm just maybe projecting onto her, but she seems pretty calm,
cool and collected talking about how it's everybody else's fault.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
There is never a perfect victim. There's no rule book
on how grieving parents react.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I think, oh, wait, are you saying that mom is
the victim?
Speaker 5 (47:40):
I am saying, I'm just giving you facts that you
just said.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
There's no perfect victim. The victim in this case is
a three year old child that was left alone in
the water at a crowded water park while mommy took
selfies and reapplied lipstick. That's the victim. Mommy's not the
victim here, but.
Speaker 5 (48:00):
She's being charged.
Speaker 18 (48:02):
She is a defendant, and so that's right, you know,
you know, and so she is going to come at them.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
With everything she has because this is serious. She can
go to prison for life, and so you know she's
going to go after.
Speaker 1 (48:22):
I know that she's the possibility of life behind bars.
Am I supposed to feel bad about that? What I
feel bad about is a three year old? You know,
to you, doctor Coyne, what is it like to drown?
What does a victim go through when they drowned? Doctor
Thomas COINMT. So that's a little boy.
Speaker 9 (48:38):
To me, I can only imagine it must be horrible fear.
I mean in that moment, the anxiety that you are
wrought with because you know, as you begin especially to
aspirate or inhale water and suddenly realize you can't reade.
I mean me, just as a person with asthma, I
know I have a really bad asthma attack. My anxiety
picks up pretty fast if I realize I can't breathe.
And so in that moment that I just just must
(49:00):
have had complete fear and horror.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
It must have been horrible, you know, doctor Coyne, I
recalled distinctly two incidents of near drowning. One when I
was about three and my mom was talking to another
lady about four feet away from me the moment I
went underwater. She jumped in in her clothes and saved me. Okay,
(49:24):
I was just sitting on the steps of a pool
and was playing a game and jumped off the step
and went immediately underwater and didn't know how to swim
yet she saved me. The second time, I was about
thirteen at a big lake and went under and that feeling.
I immediately gulped in a lot of water. It was
(49:45):
way over my head with a lake, you know, the
surface at the bottom is uneven and I was walking
out and immediately went under. And I remember the feeling
you're describing, and it was scary. It was horrific. I remember,
like it happened yesterday, Doctor Coin.
Speaker 9 (50:01):
Yeah, I had the same thing. Happened when I was
two on the Jersey Shore. I had a wave that
took me under. Thankfully my father was watching me. It
came ran over and pulled me right out right away.
But I can still remember that if I closed my eyes,
just the fear of the moment, I think it stays
with you for life.
Speaker 1 (50:16):
We wait as just a sun falls. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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