Ebby Steppach, who disappeared after a party has been found just yards away from where her car was found in a Little Rock, Arkansas, park in October 2015. Cold case detectives who found the the 18-year-old high school senior's remains are now searching for her killer. Nancy Grace talks to Ebby's mother Laurie Jernigan and Doc Washburn of Little Rock's NewsRadio 102.9 about the case. She is joined by forensics expert Joseph Scott Morgan and Crime Stories co-host Alan Duke.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name.
Get started Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM
Triumph Channel one thirty too. A major break in the
(01:07):
case in the search for a beautiful young teen girl,
Ebbie Stepic. What this family has been through is tortuous.
Now is it finally over? I Nancy Grace, this is
crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I remember
(01:28):
the day Ebbie went missing. Guys joining me shortly will
be Ebby's mother MS. Journegan but right now with me
Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville
State University, renowned psychologists out of Manhattan, doctor Patricia Saunders,
(01:49):
and Alan Duke joining me from l A. Let's start
at the beginning, Alan, exactly when did Ebbie go missing?
Ebbie Jane Stepack was eighteen, disappearing October and this was
a day after she told her mother she had been
(02:10):
sexually assaulted at a high school party. And she wasn't
seen since that day, no sign of her. Alan, that
cannot be a coincidence in my mind, I just don't
think she tells her mom she gets assaulted, sexually assaulted
at a high school party. The next day she goes missing.
(02:33):
What do we know about the clues left behind? Alan?
The one thing they found her car. They found it
in a park in Little Rock. It was a little Volkswagen, Ryan, Yeah,
it was registered to her dad, but it was the
car she used. Also, her cell phone was peemed in
the park, So that was a big clue and you
(02:53):
would think that that would be the thing that would
lead them to this child. Well, in the last hours
and major break in the case, Alan, what happened. They
found her near the car, near where the car was.
Wait wait wait, wait wait wait, she goes missing in
her car in two thousand fifteen, they find her car,
(03:17):
and now her remains are found beside the car. How
can that be? Two years have passed. Yeah, you would
think that they would have found this, this, this young lady.
She was in a drain pipe and Nancy Little Rock
police have just announced the results are back from the
Arkansas State Crime Lab confirming that it is Ebby. It's
(03:38):
remarkable to realize the drain pipe where her skeletal remains
were found was just yards away from where Ebby's car
was found three years ago and where friends and family
erected a memorial for her. Oh oh, the thought of
that that Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, I don't understand.
(03:59):
We're right now that although no formal idea has been made,
we believe remains found in the West Little Rock Park
are eavy steppic. Now. Her car was located shortly after
she goes missing in that same park, the missing teen girl,
but her remains were in an underground pipe. Right now,
(04:25):
public works crew have dug up more of the pipe
searching for evidence. It's an underground drain pipe at Shelamont
Park and that's just south of Joe T. Robinson School
on the western end of the neighborhood. She was reporting
reported missing October. Her Volkswagen found a few days later
(04:47):
in that park. The park has been searched many times
since her disappearance. Nobody can explain how the body wasn't found.
Joe Scott, it seems to me if the police have
brought in cade ever dogs, they would have found her,
even though it's an underground drain pipe. Yeah, can ever
dogs live to go down in spaces like that. It's
obvious that this probably did not occur. This is a
(05:10):
very uh confined area and it's something in my experience
that the normal person would not want to egress through.
Let me paint the picture for you. In this pipe itself,
it's gonna have a big thick base of silt that's
sitting down there. Her body, if this is her, has
been down there, and we're three years down range at
(05:32):
this point, Nancy, So anything that's contained in that pipe
is going to be skeletonized, so they have to be
very very careful. One report that I'm seeing is that
they're literally digging the pipe up, extra extricating it from
the ground. They're gonna put it on top of the ground.
And it would not actually surprise me to see them
(05:52):
take this thing out in sections and take it to
the crime lab. But you never know. I don't know
how they'll be doing this in Arkansas. That's the way
I would handle the case to keep it containing. It's
just making me just sick to my stomach because the
parents have long say they had to beg beg police
to convince law enforcement that Ebby was taken against her will.
(06:15):
She had never run away, she had never gone missing.
She was an honored student, just scrubbed in sunshine. Ebby
disappears just after telling her parents she was sexually assaulted
at a high school party. Then all this time later,
she hasn't been found. But right now a break in
the case of Ebby steppic Now, according to her parents,
(06:38):
police delayed interviewing witnesses, starting to search for her, or
even getting some Walmart and footage that may show what
their daughter was doing in the hours just before she
goes missing. Now what else do we know? We know
A few days after Ebby's disappearance, cops told the mom
(07:00):
Ebby's cell phone was last used in the middle of
the woods, and the officers refused to search the area.
So the mommy Lori Jernigan, goes out in the woods
herself to look for her daughter. And then after all that,
with the mom out in the woods calling exhaustively into
(07:23):
the night for her daughter, can you imagine, then cops
tell her they had entered the wrong phone number. That's
just a little bit of what the parents have gone
through right now, and psychologist Dr Patricia Saunders joining us
from New York. Dr Patricia the visual the middle image
(07:44):
of them holding the memorial, the candlelight vigils where her
car was parked, and now they know that a few
feet under them is their daughter's body or was she
even possibly still live with them standing over her. Patricia's
double trauma. In any event, First the daughter goes missing
(08:09):
after telling her parents that she was sexually assaulted um
and then the police, the people who were supposed to
out parents families were a missing eighteen year old, don't
forks to do very much and in hindsight, for them
to realize that they were standing right on top of
(08:31):
a daughter who might have been said, is the worst
night there for a parent. I mean, I could hardly
take it in. Um. In the last hours, we find
out that human remains have been found in an underground
drain pipe. Joseph got Morgan, forensics expert. Do you have
studied the facts? What would someone have to do to
(08:55):
get her dead or alive into that drain pipe? Who
would he even think of that? Well, there's two ways
that you can access a drain pipe, Nancy, I've been
thinking about this. First off, you would have to know
where the thing terminates. That is, where it opens up
where you can access Wait a minute, that tells me
it's a local right there, Go ahead, yeah, yeah, Or
(09:15):
you would have to have manhole access. Again, you would
have to be aware of where this is. And I
find it real curious, Nancy, that this is in a park,
her car, is there maybe woods adjacent to it? Well,
you know what if and this is a big what if?
What if she was summoned to that location by somebody
just to have a talk, if you know what I mean,
(09:37):
And then they get out there and then something bad
goes wrong and they're looking for a quick way to
dispose of her body. Um, after this has been facilitated.
A grown person could take her, She's not a very
large uh child, take her and literally bring her the
(09:58):
length of that pipe to have for secluded in this area.
I think that's gonna be key. So yeah, I think
you're right. I think that this is probably a local
that has an awareness of this area. She got some
into that park. I'd like to know the nature of
that park. What goes on there? Do teenagers hang out?
Is this a lover's laying kind of area? Who frequents
that park? Uh? So? Has she ever been known to
(10:21):
go there before? This is I think there's a lot
of meat on the bone here relative to uh, relative
to the investigation and things that they can look into.
I am just shocked, absolutely shocked that they didn't pursue
this any further uh than they did when this thing
initially kicked off. You know too, Dr Patricia Saunders, not
(10:42):
only dealing with I mean, I don't even know what
I would do if I did not have the twins
to look forward to at night, too, you know, making
their supper, helping them with their school projects. I mean,
it's it's my whole world, and I'm thinking about Ebbie's parents,
(11:03):
not only dealing with her not being there, but then
not knowing. Dr Patricia, that's probably the worst part of this,
and that's why I said this is a double trauma,
not only using the door that she's missing, not knowing,
but the very people who were supposed to help don't
(11:24):
really And this is as far outside. But if this
was a local is there a possibly some covernment that
will be investigated. I'm sure because if what we're hearing
from the parents about the way the case was handled,
apparently police didn't even believe she had been taken against
(11:45):
her will. To start with, guys, right now, let's go
straight out to a police press conference. Cold case investigators
came out here in Lamont Park. Well utilize our public
works department with the city, and they began to follow
on once they leads. But they just began to follow
up on the investigation into the disappearance of every step it. Um.
(12:07):
You know, we've been working on this case since two
thousand and fifteen. We've been back out to this park
in two thousand and sixteen. I was actually one of
the ones out here and we never found anything. Today, Um,
those cold case investigators decided that we needed to look
in a drainage pipe that runs here down the back
of the park, and we used public works to pull
(12:31):
up the pipe and to dig it up. And once
we got the pipe up, they were able to see
that there was human marine remains inside that part of
the pipe. Immediately stopped. UM contacted more detectives. We've got
a crime scene out here, and we've contacted the FBI.
They have sent their Evidence Response team out here to
assist us. The Plaska County corners out here also to assist.
(12:55):
Because what we're doing now as a recovery situation where
this is going to take quite a at a time. UM,
as you can imagine the remains are, it's gonna take
time to sift through the pipe that we have. We're
gonna pull up possibly more of that pipe and go
through that also. UM. Right now, I can just verify
(13:15):
that it is human remains. I can't verify who it
is UM at this time. We'll have to take the
remains that we do gather up to the Medical Examiner's
office and from there having autopsy to DNA and trying
to you know, confirm the identity. So you can't confriend
that the UM. The remains were found in a drainage pipe.
(13:37):
That's correct. They were they skeletal remains or were they
at this point and we're still going through the pipe.
So at this point what we have is skeletal Um.
We still have dirt and other debris that's been pushed
through that pipe to go through also so um. But
(13:59):
right now what we're seeing the skeleton. So I know
everyone is wondering, is is this ebby Steppic Do you
believe there's any any connection or y'all any update with
that because this is the park where you search for
her in two thousand and sixteen, this is where she
her car was found. Yes, and those are all good points.
(14:20):
That's why we were out here today to follow up
on the missing report on miss step It. So, yes,
the where we started um, as you can see the
memorial back here behind us is where the our vehicle
was found and that drainage pipe starts not far from there.
So this is all based upon following up on that case. Detectives.
(14:44):
If we've never given up on this, you know, I know, Um,
it's taken a while and sometimetimes these things do. And
then with the creation of the cold case squad, we
were able to utilize them, while homicide detectives and the
violent crime detectives were able to work on the new
stuff that comes in daily in a little rock, and
then the cold case was able to continue to look
(15:04):
through the file do follow up, and one of the
investigators decided that, hey, we need to look further into this,
and then that's what led us here today. So a
tip didn't lead you here, No, No, this was purely
our investigators and and manly the cold case guys just
following up and kind of using gut instinct and going
through that file and seeing, you know what what we
(15:25):
could do next? Can you describe? So you said, once again,
where was the trainage pipe in relation to the park? Here?
It runs but sat behind the park. Of course you
can't see it. That runs down there's a parking lot
back there and it runs um kind of paralleliction. Besides
human remains with their clothing found or can you come
(15:45):
in on that. Can't come in on that because right
now we're still this is gonna be a slow process.
We're still gonna slowly remove the stuff out of that pipe.
And I don't know, I haven't been informed of any
clothing yet, but it's still way early No tip led
us here. We knew this is the last place that
we knew she was, but based on our car and
protectives just came back here again today. Is there some
(16:08):
sort of opening like in the park to where that
pipe is? It's a typical um I think like a
manhole cover that goes down here too. So is this
the first time to be able to nation. No, it's
the first time we've into that depth. Yes, they had
(16:31):
never gone all the way through it. I don't know,
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Straight out to our special guest, Ebbie's mother, Lorie journ Again,
(18:04):
also with me little rock radio host dot Washburn to
both of you, Welcome to Syria, sex M one thirty two.
I want to hear all about Ebby. First to you,
Lori jurn Agin. Tell me what happened when Ebby went missing.
(18:25):
Start at the beginning. For our listeners that don't know Ebby. UM,
this is so overwhelming, I'm sorry if I start crying. UM.
Ebbie was a senior, had just started high school, had
started a new school by her choice, Um, and she
(18:46):
went to a party she was staying with my son,
her brother. She went to a party on Friday night,
October and was assaulted sexually assaulted. UM. She found out
that it was being recorded, so she left the party.
(19:07):
She contacted my husband Saturday evening UM and told him
about it. She didn't want me to know about it,
told him that she wanted that. She did call the police, UM,
they were not helpful. She told my husband exactly what happened.
She mentioned she had also text other friends and told
(19:28):
him what happened. So this guy that raped her, she
knew him correct from school? From school and is that
one of the guys that went on to get a
scholarship to school? Exactly? Mm hmm okay, so that happens
(19:52):
that night. She doesn't tell you because she doesn't want
you upset. She tells her dad instead. Did they report
the rape? No, he did not. Ebby called the police
before she told my husband, which is ebby stepdad. Um.
She did not get any answers from the police what
(20:12):
to do. Uh. They did not give her any answers
of coming downtown reporting it. So after she told my
husband in text message everything that happened, he was going
to meet her and go to police station with her
before they met. Ebby disappeared. The night before she was
(20:34):
raped by a guy that she knew. She's still in
high school. That she called police. Nothing was ever done
about it. She disappears and he goes on to get
a sports scholarship. Is my understanding of what happened. And
(20:57):
then the next morning she goes with her brother. She's
supposed to go with her brother to visit the grandma
and west Little Rock. Your husband, her stepfather was supposed
to meet her there, but when he gets there, she's gone.
Her family never saw Abby again. Is that correct? That's correct.
(21:24):
She was at her grandmother's house around seven pm. She
texts my husband told him everything that happened. He said,
I'll meet you. She didn't want him become to my
parents house. He didn't. She didn't want them upset, so
she said, yes, we'll meet um. He left, called her
to get a place to meet. He never heard from her.
(21:48):
He couldn't get in touch with her. He verified with
my parents that she was there, that she left. She
actually told my parents I'll be back later, love you.
Was not upset and left. We don't know where she went,
or who she met, or what happened to her until
(22:11):
five Sunday afternoon. The next day. The next afternoon, after
all of us trying to reach her, she finally answered
the phone. My son called her. She finally answered the phone.
He said, where are you? And she said, I'm in
front of your house. So my son Trevor hung up
(22:32):
and said, okay, I'm on my way out. He went
out there. She wasn't there, and he called her back.
He said, you're not here. Where are you? And she said,
I don't know. I'm with my car. And isn't it
true that in that conversation, your son says, Abby sounded
very disoriented, that she didn't seem to know what was
(22:56):
going on. What do you mean by that? What do
you mean? But she sounded disoriented. She didn't sound drunk
or slurring, but she did not know where she was,
She didn't know who was with her. All she could
say to him was I'm in my car. I'm with
my car. And the more he tried to question her,
that's all he could get from her was And this
(23:19):
conversation went on four minutes, and all she could say
over and is I'm with my car. I don't know
who I'm with. I don't know where I am, and
he when that's all I could get from her, he
called my husband to get her phone, paining to find
out where she was. That that's what was going on.
(23:43):
He called my husband. That's what they were trying to do.
At the same time, my husband's driving everywhere looking to her.
And when Trevor called her back, she never answered again.
We've never heard from her again since that phone call
to dot Washburn little radio host joining us. Isn't it
true that a few days after she disappears, her car
(24:05):
it was a silver Volkswagen, and her belongings, including her
cell phone, her contact lenses, were found in West Little Rock?
What do we know, Doc? Yeah, the car was found
and the guy who found it was I guess the
security guy there at the at the development of the
(24:28):
neighborhood there in West Little Rock, and he contacted the
police saying, I don't know why this this car is
out here. Um, I guess the the keys are still
an ignission, that the battery was dead, it was out
of gas, and it took several days for the police
to respond. Why did it take several days for the
(24:49):
police to respond. Ebby had already been reported missing and
this is her car. Yeah, sure, well the the guy,
the guy didn't know it was was Ebbie car apparently.
But when the police did finally went out there and
got the car, you know, Eddie's name is on the title,
and her birth father's name is on the title, and
(25:11):
even though everybody in town knows she's missing, the police
called the birth father and say, hey, we find a
car out here. What's what's going on? As if they didn't, Nancy,
let me interrupt you. Here that security guard Guy Hooper
is speaking to reporters about the discovery of the remains
(25:31):
in the drainage pipe. Let's listen. Long years when I
got the call about what they had possibly found, you
hit the real hard. But probably within a hundred yards
were the young like hello or whoever it is, was
down there. We think, we hope for closure, that the
way we hope it's not, but then we still don't
(25:53):
have answers. That just seems unimaginable to me that this girl,
this young girl, a high schooler for Pete's sake, goes
missing in a relatively small town. I mean, I mean,
we compare it to New York or l A, San Francisco.
This is a small town everybody knows she's missing, and
(26:15):
there's her car, and it takes days for police to
get there. And then they called the dango, Oh hey,
even found your car. For that matter, the guy who
finds the car. UM. You know, Ebie's family was told, oh, yeah,
we interviewed him and everything, etcetera, etcetera. Months later to
find out, no, they didn't. Months later to find out
(26:37):
that apparently this guy had a video on a thumb drive,
UM that they never bothered messing with for that matter. UM.
The refusal to try to find out much about the
people she was hanging out with. UM, nobody with a
(26:58):
police department, with with a crew that was investigating this
at first, was was interested in trying to get cell
phones of people that she was with. I mean, it's
just one thing after another. And and the verbal abuse
I believe, and of course Laurie can speak to us
better than than I can, uh that that she and
her husband experienced from from people who are still on
(27:21):
the forest with a little wife. Police depart hold on
hold on verbal abuse abuse on a victim's mom with
me is Ebby's mom. And if you could see the
photos of this girl, she is absolutely stunning She's just
precious and in a few short years, my little Lucy
(27:44):
would be her age and my John David too. Laurie Jurakin,
who is Ebbie's mom. What is Dot Washburn saying about?
What verbal abuse? Is doc talking about? Lorie? I it
happened the whole during the whole case. These officers, this lieutenant,
(28:06):
the sergeant, the detective. No one would investigate this, no one.
It went on and I would show up at the
police station. I brought I can't tell you how many
copies of phone records I brought. Every time I would
show up, they would It would be ugly, and they
got mad because I would come down and confront them. Uh,
(28:28):
they got mad because I would show that, you know,
I would show where they were lying to me. It
got so bad that the prosecutor here in Little Rock
sent one of his ex employees with me so she
could take notes, just just to have some when they're
(28:48):
taking notes. That's the third party. When I asked them
for the phones, the boys phones, they said no, we
didn't get them, and I was just I couldn't believe it.
Another one of Ebbie's friends had Abby's original phone and
had been sharing the cloud with Ebby. I asked if
(29:10):
they got her phone. No, we didn't get them. I
asked them, are they know we're not we don't have
probable cause. I was just outrage. I can't even describe
how I felt, how I still feel about it. I'm
so angry. Um, when I I got so angry that
(29:31):
the whole police force, like the captain, all the lieutenants,
everyone met with me. I went over reason after reason
after reason to get these boys phones, to get subpoenas
for him. And that captain looked at me and said,
there's no probable cause. And I looked at him and said,
what does it take for probable cause? And he looked
(29:54):
at me and said, I decide what's probable cause. I this,
I can't even I can't even express how what that
did to my family. Over and over it got to
be so bad. Um. I had the lieutenant, well, the
(30:15):
sergeant that was head of this case at the time.
We were very angry at each other, and we had
text messages back and forth. They took my husband. They
didn't ask for polygraph tests for us from the beginning,
which we were absolutely would have done in a second. Um,
they're this sergeant for whatever reason, was hell bent on
(30:39):
running putting my my husband, putting this on my husband.
There's no wreck, I mean everything, There's nothing that would
suggest my husband had anything involved. Well, the last person
to talk to her was her brother, and your husband's
whereabouts how been verified. At the time of that conversation,
(31:02):
he was not with her. Laurie, tell Nancy Grace what
happened when you apparently committed the unpardonable sin of referring
to some of the guys that that Ebby have been
hanging out with his thugs. Yeah. I want to hear
exactly what happened, Laurie, because you confronted the police about
(31:26):
the guys that were at that party that night, and
they didn't want to hear anything about it. They did
not want to hear one word about it. So, Laurie,
my question is what has become of those guys that
you believe raped Ebby. Nothing. They've gone to school there
(31:51):
on with their lives. They've not been questioned again. They
were questioned at the very beginning briefly, Um the guy
said no, you're not getting our phones and they were left.
I mean, so they've gone on with their lives now.
Abby had a very unusual tattoo. What did it say, Lisa?
(32:12):
With every with every darker night becomes a brighter day,
and is that on her arm, that's on her torso
on her right? With every with every darker night there
comes a brighter day, and that was her heart. A
(32:36):
major break in the case in the search for ebby
Stepic in two thousand fifteen, they find her car and
now her remains are found dot Washburn. Little rock radio host,
I find it too much of coincidence that she was
raped the night before and it was videoed by the
(33:00):
creep that did it, and in the next within you know,
forty eight hours, she goes missing, her car has found
abandoned in an unrelated upscale suburban home housing development. I
find that very I mean, there is no coincidence in
criminal criminal law, I very often say so, it's hard
(33:22):
for me to think that one night she's raped, she
calls the police, she tells her stepdad, there's an outcry,
witness two of them, and then suddenly she's gone, I'm
just not buying it, Doc. No, I'm not either, Nancy.
(33:44):
And obviously you're you're thinking like a prosecutor, and you know,
I've never had any law law courses, but I've talked
to Polny lawyers and usually I think the most reasonable
explanation is a correct one. And the fact that they
people at the Little art Of Police department we were
supposed to be investigating, are telling Laurie and her husband
(34:05):
right off the bat, well, don't go to the media,
don't publicize this. And the fact that they told this
family for months. Yes, we we interviewed the custodian there
at the at the residential area where the car was found,
and then months later when Ev gets ahold of a
(34:26):
private investigator, he finds out now they didn't interview the guy,
and the guy had video on the thumb drive for months.
It might have helped, but now the thumb drive has gone.
And the fact that they're refusing to follow up with
these guys that that eye was hanging out with, I mean,
the whole crew that was handling supposedly this investigation for
(34:47):
the first eight months seemed determined to not want to
know what happened to her. I think that if they
had actually conducted a competent investigation from the start and
we would have found out Abby was planning to go
to the Little Rock p d to report a sex
(35:08):
assault a rape, but before she could actually talk to police,
before she could get to the police station, she disappears.
Why she's become famous within the Little Rock, Arkansas community,
but for for what? For going missing? Ebby goes to
(35:30):
a house party. That was the end of the trail
for Abby. For all intents and purposes. She goes to
a party on a Friday night. She has sex assaulted there.
It was video taped. Police never got that video to
(35:51):
her mom joining me Lorie Journe again, Laurie, when you
wake up in the morning and you put your feet
on the floor and you think of your girl Abby,
what goes through your mind? Um, I'm I'm devastating. I
(36:16):
miss her so much. Um. I had so much anger
towards two police that were involved in this in the beginning.
I have so much gratitude for the the cats that
have it. Now. I miss her so much. I miss
her so much. I wonder back. I want her body back. Well,
(36:46):
I'm going back over all the evidence. In my mind,
I mean, what teen girl, he's behind her cell phone
or clothing or makeup, contact lenses and her cell phone.
I mean, that's the world. Why would she willingly leave
that behind. There was a fifty thousand dollar reward offered.
(37:09):
She was last seen at her grandmother's house. She made
one mystery call to her brother, but was disoriented and
it was clearly asking for help, but couldn't seem to
be able to say where she was or who had her.
Days later, her car turns up in an upscale area
near Little Rock. It was sitting there. Took police three
(37:31):
days to come get her car, in the car, her
cell phone, her makeup, her contact lenses. No teen girl
wants to be separated from her cell phone. I can
tell you that much. So let me go to our
special guest, dout Washburn, little Rock radio host and Ebbie's mother,
(37:52):
Lorie Journe Again. Ebbie was. Ebbie was all about social media.
She was on social media you all the time, as
kids are on social media. I'm reading a post that you,
Laurie rn Again posted. It says, Lord God, Almighty, maker
of Heaven and Earth. I asked, boldly, give me Ebby today.
(38:20):
Tell me what was going through your mind when you
wrote that, Laurie. Now I write that I feel that
every day I pray to have her every day. I
have very strong faith but this will sure make you
question it. Um, I plead. We have ebby spacebook page
(38:42):
and we have so many followers that pray for her
and pray for us every day. I don't even know
most of these people, but Ebbie has touched their heart
in the mystery. You can't you can't just disappear. You
just can't disappear. You know. It's amazing to me. It's
(39:04):
amazing to me. Dot Washburn police told the parents not
to go public. That that why, you know, that's the
six or four thousand dollar question, Nancy. I wish I knew.
But again, the way they treated this family, at least
the the police with the Little Rock Police Department, who
(39:26):
were supposedly supposed to be doing the investigation for the
first eight months, is it's an outrage. Um. You know
that the people who picked up the ball after the
first eight months seemed to have been doing a good job,
but so much was lost in that initial time period
that you can't go back and get. What's amazing to
(39:48):
me is that the rape was never investigated and the
alleged rapist has now gone off to college with a scholarship.
The alleged rapists, I can't outright say rape because it
was never even investigated. So nobody's a suspect, nobody's a perpetrator,
(40:08):
nobody's person of interest because it was never investigated. And
then the videotape, as I understand it was on a
hard drive, was on and that's been lost. Explained that
to me, Doc. The thumb drive that I was talking
about was was the video of where the car was
found the security guy at the development. Wait, wait, wait,
(40:31):
there's surreillance video of her car being driven. What do
we know about that video? Is it real? Is that
her car? Well, you know, if the Little Lick Police Department,
if the people at the Little Life Police Department hadn't
lied and said, yeah, we interviewed the security guy out
of the development, and months later the p I found out,
(40:55):
well no that's not true. They didn't interview him, and
he had a thumb drive with video that area for
several months before he got rid of it. Um, you
know that there's so much like that that has been
missed by people who seem to be determined to not
find out what happened to this young lady. We're very close.
(41:16):
She she would spend the night out, but she would
come home. Um, she wanted to be at home. She
wanted her friends to be at our home. She was
more comfortable at home. There's not a day that has
been gone by in her life that she's not We
haven't been in contact or with her. Let's talk about
the facts. Let's talk about her cell phone. What evidence,
(41:40):
if any, was recovered from her cell phone? What were
her last phone calls and text Do you know that? No?
I don't why I've not been told that where's the phone?
FBI has it? The FBI? Would they allow you to
see it? We first got the phone, um, in the
(42:01):
very beginning, the little police department gave us the phone
and asked us if we knew how to unlock it.
Oh boy, that's not a good sign. And they couldn't
get it unlocked. Well, I don't know her past code.
I assumed police officers knew how to do that. Well,
ours didn't. They didn't know how to get into her Snapchat,
(42:22):
her Instagram, her Facebook. I literally had to download and
copy the the directions for law enforcement to get information
from apps. I had to download that. That's what you
agree to when you download any any app. I had
to copy that and give that to them so they
(42:42):
can figure out how to contact Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, So
the FBI has it now. It's amazing to me that
that you don't know. They haven't told you her most
her last text, her license, voicemails, who spoke to her
last and you can definitely triangulate or figure out where
(43:05):
her cell phone had been prior to finding it, and
where it had been prior to those last pings, if
anybody contacted her said hey, meet me, anything like that.
And why do you think dot Washburn that her car
turned up and this upscale housing development that she has
no connection to, It looks like somebody dumped the car
(43:27):
to me, I mean, look, if they had the search
done out there and they couldn't find any trace that
she had been in that development outside that car, you know,
even if she was abducted, it doesn't look like she
was abducted there. That that's the one thing. And then
the other thing, as what Laurie was talking about about
(43:50):
how it seemed to be like pulling teeth to get
the Little Life police department interested in checking out social media.
My understanding is, and I don't know if it's change
since every disappeared, but a little like police department didn't
have an I T. Guy. Uh, they didn't know anything
about social media. Oh, dear Lord in Heaven. I mean,
(44:11):
it wasn't that long ago. For Pete's sake, every every
force has an I T. Guy. This is what we know.
Ebby Stepic disappears October two thousand fifteen. No one has
come forward with any information. The reward has increased. It
is now fifty thousand dollars. That's a lot of money.
(44:33):
Back to Laurie journ Again, mother of missing Ebby Jane, Laura,
tell me how do you keep your hope alive? Faith?
My my belief and God. Um, that's the only thing
that keeps me going. And when I don't have it,
(44:55):
as other prayers that keep me going, that's the only
way I can keep going. Um. I will fight whoever
I need to fight until I find her, until I
find her body, until I find her, I will fight
till my last breath. I have made so many enemies
(45:16):
in our legal depart in our law enforcement here in Arkansas,
and I've had also I've also had advocates show up
in our police department. Um, that's where my that's where
my hope lives is our detective right now, Tommy Hudson,
(45:37):
he's obsessed with this. He came out of retirement for
this case. That's that's the case he works on full time. UM.
We had an assistant chief Beauley Wyane Buley that when
he removed the case from our original group, he apologized
to me over and over of how we were treated,
(45:58):
how the case was mishandled. We had files stossified, we
had um our original group investigators get into her Google
account and manipulate her account. Um. There's so many things
that were done to, like God said, prevent us from
finding our daughter. They wanted to stick with their theory
(46:20):
she's a runaway, she'll come home. Of course, police always
look at those closest to a victim, and that would
include her stepfather. Police investigated him and he has totally
been cleared. There was even no suggestion that he was
involved in this. And I want to put that in
(46:41):
the listeners minds right now, because there was nothing at
all to suggest her brother or stepfather or bio dad
had anything to do with her disappearance. And I'm saying
that because that's the first place all homicide or kidnap
investigations start with those family members and then it goes
(47:02):
out to UH love objects, romantic interests X as it
goes from there. I'm gonna put it on the record
right now. The stepfather, the bio dad, the brother have
absolutely nothing to do with Ebby's disappearance. To Ebbe's mom,
Laurie Journakin, Laurie, when you think of Abby, what is
(47:25):
your most vivid memory, how happy she is, her love
of people, animals, and her happiness, her affection, She she loved, loved, loved,
and she helped others that gave her so much story
(47:46):
to help others, her friends. The constant theme is she
would do anything for you, and she she would. Um,
I don't have that anymore. I don't have her here.
I don't get to see that face, hear her funny stories.
I don't have that anymore. And those that have come
(48:09):
to know her through this investigation, she's touched so many loves.
She's touched so many loves through all this. I have
to fight for her because Ebbie is a fighter. I
search in search and I share everything I searched, and
that's what Ebby would do for me. The irony and
(48:30):
the discovery of these remains that we believe our Ebby's
tomorrow as National Missing Children's Day, and we are devoting
ourselves to finding missing children. And my heart is breaking
for the stepics now. And if you have information regarding
(48:55):
who killed little Ebby and put her parents through so
much misery, please call five zero one three seven one
four six three six or six six to four to
zero six five one eight. There is a fifty thousand
(49:17):
dollar reward. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
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Visit truth finder dot com, slash Nancy, enter your own name.
Get started Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Sirius XM
Triumph Channel one thirty too. A major break in the
(01:07):
case in the search for a beautiful young teen girl,
Ebbie Stepic. What this family has been through is tortuous.
Now is it finally over? I Nancy Grace, this is
crime Stories. Thank you for being with us. I remember
(01:28):
the day Ebbie went missing. Guys joining me shortly will
be Ebby's mother MS. Journegan but right now with me
Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, Professor of Forensics at Jacksonville
State University, renowned psychologists out of Manhattan, doctor Patricia Saunders,
(01:49):
and Alan Duke joining me from l A. Let's start
at the beginning, Alan, exactly when did Ebbie go missing?
Ebbie Jane Stepack was eighteen, disappearing October and this was
a day after she told her mother she had been
(02:10):
sexually assaulted at a high school party. And she wasn't
seen since that day, no sign of her. Alan, that
cannot be a coincidence in my mind, I just don't
think she tells her mom she gets assaulted, sexually assaulted
at a high school party. The next day she goes missing.
(02:33):
What do we know about the clues left behind? Alan?
The one thing they found her car. They found it
in a park in Little Rock. It was a little Volkswagen, Ryan, Yeah,
it was registered to her dad, but it was the
car she used. Also, her cell phone was peemed in
the park, So that was a big clue and you
(02:53):
would think that that would be the thing that would
lead them to this child. Well, in the last hours
and major break in the case, Alan, what happened. They
found her near the car, near where the car was.
Wait wait wait, wait wait wait, she goes missing in
her car in two thousand fifteen, they find her car,
(03:17):
and now her remains are found beside the car. How
can that be? Two years have passed. Yeah, you would
think that they would have found this, this, this young lady.
She was in a drain pipe and Nancy Little Rock
police have just announced the results are back from the
Arkansas State Crime Lab confirming that it is Ebby. It's
(03:38):
remarkable to realize the drain pipe where her skeletal remains
were found was just yards away from where Ebby's car
was found three years ago and where friends and family
erected a memorial for her. Oh oh, the thought of
that that Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, I don't understand.
(03:59):
We're right now that although no formal idea has been made,
we believe remains found in the West Little Rock Park
are eavy steppic. Now. Her car was located shortly after
she goes missing in that same park, the missing teen girl,
but her remains were in an underground pipe. Right now,
(04:25):
public works crew have dug up more of the pipe
searching for evidence. It's an underground drain pipe at Shelamont
Park and that's just south of Joe T. Robinson School
on the western end of the neighborhood. She was reporting
reported missing October. Her Volkswagen found a few days later
(04:47):
in that park. The park has been searched many times
since her disappearance. Nobody can explain how the body wasn't found.
Joe Scott, it seems to me if the police have
brought in cade ever dogs, they would have found her,
even though it's an underground drain pipe. Yeah, can ever
dogs live to go down in spaces like that. It's
obvious that this probably did not occur. This is a
(05:10):
very uh confined area and it's something in my experience
that the normal person would not want to egress through.
Let me paint the picture for you. In this pipe itself,
it's gonna have a big thick base of silt that's
sitting down there. Her body, if this is her, has
been down there, and we're three years down range at
(05:32):
this point, Nancy, So anything that's contained in that pipe
is going to be skeletonized, so they have to be
very very careful. One report that I'm seeing is that
they're literally digging the pipe up, extra extricating it from
the ground. They're gonna put it on top of the ground.
And it would not actually surprise me to see them
(05:52):
take this thing out in sections and take it to
the crime lab. But you never know. I don't know
how they'll be doing this in Arkansas. That's the way
I would handle the case to keep it containing. It's
just making me just sick to my stomach because the
parents have long say they had to beg beg police
to convince law enforcement that Ebby was taken against her will.
(06:15):
She had never run away, she had never gone missing.
She was an honored student, just scrubbed in sunshine. Ebby
disappears just after telling her parents she was sexually assaulted
at a high school party. Then all this time later,
she hasn't been found. But right now a break in
the case of Ebby steppic Now, according to her parents,
(06:38):
police delayed interviewing witnesses, starting to search for her, or
even getting some Walmart and footage that may show what
their daughter was doing in the hours just before she
goes missing. Now what else do we know? We know
A few days after Ebby's disappearance, cops told the mom
(07:00):
Ebby's cell phone was last used in the middle of
the woods, and the officers refused to search the area.
So the mommy Lori Jernigan, goes out in the woods
herself to look for her daughter. And then after all that,
with the mom out in the woods calling exhaustively into
(07:23):
the night for her daughter, can you imagine, then cops
tell her they had entered the wrong phone number. That's
just a little bit of what the parents have gone
through right now, and psychologist Dr Patricia Saunders joining us
from New York. Dr Patricia the visual the middle image
(07:44):
of them holding the memorial, the candlelight vigils where her
car was parked, and now they know that a few
feet under them is their daughter's body or was she
even possibly still live with them standing over her. Patricia's
double trauma. In any event, First the daughter goes missing
(08:09):
after telling her parents that she was sexually assaulted um
and then the police, the people who were supposed to
out parents families were a missing eighteen year old, don't
forks to do very much and in hindsight, for them
to realize that they were standing right on top of
(08:31):
a daughter who might have been said, is the worst
night there for a parent. I mean, I could hardly
take it in. Um. In the last hours, we find
out that human remains have been found in an underground
drain pipe. Joseph got Morgan, forensics expert. Do you have
studied the facts? What would someone have to do to
(08:55):
get her dead or alive into that drain pipe? Who
would he even think of that? Well, there's two ways
that you can access a drain pipe, Nancy, I've been
thinking about this. First off, you would have to know
where the thing terminates. That is, where it opens up
where you can access Wait a minute, that tells me
it's a local right there, Go ahead, yeah, yeah, Or
(09:15):
you would have to have manhole access. Again, you would
have to be aware of where this is. And I
find it real curious, Nancy, that this is in a park,
her car, is there maybe woods adjacent to it? Well,
you know what if and this is a big what if?
What if she was summoned to that location by somebody
just to have a talk, if you know what I mean,
(09:37):
And then they get out there and then something bad
goes wrong and they're looking for a quick way to
dispose of her body. Um, after this has been facilitated.
A grown person could take her, She's not a very
large uh child, take her and literally bring her the
(09:58):
length of that pipe to have for secluded in this area.
I think that's gonna be key. So yeah, I think
you're right. I think that this is probably a local
that has an awareness of this area. She got some
into that park. I'd like to know the nature of
that park. What goes on there? Do teenagers hang out?
Is this a lover's laying kind of area? Who frequents
that park? Uh? So? Has she ever been known to
(10:21):
go there before? This is I think there's a lot
of meat on the bone here relative to uh, relative
to the investigation and things that they can look into.
I am just shocked, absolutely shocked that they didn't pursue
this any further uh than they did when this thing
initially kicked off. You know too, Dr Patricia Saunders, not
(10:42):
only dealing with I mean, I don't even know what
I would do if I did not have the twins
to look forward to at night, too, you know, making
their supper, helping them with their school projects. I mean,
it's it's my whole world, and I'm thinking about Ebbie's parents,
(11:03):
not only dealing with her not being there, but then
not knowing. Dr Patricia, that's probably the worst part of this,
and that's why I said this is a double trauma,
not only using the door that she's missing, not knowing,
but the very people who were supposed to help don't
(11:24):
really And this is as far outside. But if this
was a local is there a possibly some covernment that
will be investigated. I'm sure because if what we're hearing
from the parents about the way the case was handled,
apparently police didn't even believe she had been taken against
(11:45):
her will. To start with, guys, right now, let's go
straight out to a police press conference. Cold case investigators
came out here in Lamont Park. Well utilize our public
works department with the city, and they began to follow
on once they leads. But they just began to follow
up on the investigation into the disappearance of every step it. Um.
(12:07):
You know, we've been working on this case since two
thousand and fifteen. We've been back out to this park
in two thousand and sixteen. I was actually one of
the ones out here and we never found anything. Today, Um,
those cold case investigators decided that we needed to look
in a drainage pipe that runs here down the back
of the park, and we used public works to pull
(12:31):
up the pipe and to dig it up. And once
we got the pipe up, they were able to see
that there was human marine remains inside that part of
the pipe. Immediately stopped. UM contacted more detectives. We've got
a crime scene out here, and we've contacted the FBI.
They have sent their Evidence Response team out here to
assist us. The Plaska County corners out here also to assist.
(12:55):
Because what we're doing now as a recovery situation where
this is going to take quite a at a time. UM,
as you can imagine the remains are, it's gonna take
time to sift through the pipe that we have. We're
gonna pull up possibly more of that pipe and go
through that also. UM. Right now, I can just verify
(13:15):
that it is human remains. I can't verify who it
is UM at this time. We'll have to take the
remains that we do gather up to the Medical Examiner's
office and from there having autopsy to DNA and trying
to you know, confirm the identity. So you can't confriend
that the UM. The remains were found in a drainage pipe.
(13:37):
That's correct. They were they skeletal remains or were they
at this point and we're still going through the pipe.
So at this point what we have is skeletal Um.
We still have dirt and other debris that's been pushed
through that pipe to go through also so um. But
(13:59):
right now what we're seeing the skeleton. So I know
everyone is wondering, is is this ebby Steppic Do you
believe there's any any connection or y'all any update with
that because this is the park where you search for
her in two thousand and sixteen, this is where she
her car was found. Yes, and those are all good points.
(14:20):
That's why we were out here today to follow up
on the missing report on miss step It. So, yes,
the where we started um, as you can see the
memorial back here behind us is where the our vehicle
was found and that drainage pipe starts not far from there.
So this is all based upon following up on that case. Detectives.
(14:44):
If we've never given up on this, you know, I know, Um,
it's taken a while and sometimetimes these things do. And
then with the creation of the cold case squad, we
were able to utilize them, while homicide detectives and the
violent crime detectives were able to work on the new
stuff that comes in daily in a little rock, and
then the cold case was able to continue to look
(15:04):
through the file do follow up, and one of the
investigators decided that, hey, we need to look further into this,
and then that's what led us here today. So a
tip didn't lead you here, No, No, this was purely
our investigators and and manly the cold case guys just
following up and kind of using gut instinct and going
through that file and seeing, you know what what we
(15:25):
could do next? Can you describe? So you said, once again,
where was the trainage pipe in relation to the park? Here?
It runs but sat behind the park. Of course you
can't see it. That runs down there's a parking lot
back there and it runs um kind of paralleliction. Besides
human remains with their clothing found or can you come
(15:45):
in on that. Can't come in on that because right
now we're still this is gonna be a slow process.
We're still gonna slowly remove the stuff out of that pipe.
And I don't know, I haven't been informed of any
clothing yet, but it's still way early No tip led
us here. We knew this is the last place that
we knew she was, but based on our car and
protectives just came back here again today. Is there some
(16:08):
sort of opening like in the park to where that
pipe is? It's a typical um I think like a
manhole cover that goes down here too. So is this
the first time to be able to nation. No, it's
the first time we've into that depth. Yes, they had
(16:31):
never gone all the way through it. I don't know,
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Straight out to our special guest, Ebbie's mother, Lorie journ Again,
(18:04):
also with me little rock radio host dot Washburn to
both of you, Welcome to Syria, sex M one thirty two.
I want to hear all about Ebby. First to you,
Lori jurn Agin. Tell me what happened when Ebby went missing.
(18:25):
Start at the beginning. For our listeners that don't know Ebby. UM,
this is so overwhelming, I'm sorry if I start crying. UM.
Ebbie was a senior, had just started high school, had
started a new school by her choice, Um, and she
(18:46):
went to a party she was staying with my son,
her brother. She went to a party on Friday night,
October and was assaulted sexually assaulted. UM. She found out
that it was being recorded, so she left the party.
(19:07):
She contacted my husband Saturday evening UM and told him
about it. She didn't want me to know about it,
told him that she wanted that. She did call the police, UM,
they were not helpful. She told my husband exactly what happened.
She mentioned she had also text other friends and told
(19:28):
him what happened. So this guy that raped her, she
knew him correct from school? From school and is that
one of the guys that went on to get a
scholarship to school? Exactly? Mm hmm okay, so that happens
(19:52):
that night. She doesn't tell you because she doesn't want
you upset. She tells her dad instead. Did they report
the rape? No, he did not. Ebby called the police
before she told my husband, which is ebby stepdad. Um.
She did not get any answers from the police what
(20:12):
to do. Uh. They did not give her any answers
of coming downtown reporting it. So after she told my
husband in text message everything that happened, he was going
to meet her and go to police station with her
before they met. Ebby disappeared. The night before she was
(20:34):
raped by a guy that she knew. She's still in
high school. That she called police. Nothing was ever done
about it. She disappears and he goes on to get
a sports scholarship. Is my understanding of what happened. And
(20:57):
then the next morning she goes with her brother. She's
supposed to go with her brother to visit the grandma
and west Little Rock. Your husband, her stepfather was supposed
to meet her there, but when he gets there, she's gone.
Her family never saw Abby again. Is that correct? That's correct.
(21:24):
She was at her grandmother's house around seven pm. She
texts my husband told him everything that happened. He said,
I'll meet you. She didn't want him become to my
parents house. He didn't. She didn't want them upset, so
she said, yes, we'll meet um. He left, called her
to get a place to meet. He never heard from her.
(21:48):
He couldn't get in touch with her. He verified with
my parents that she was there, that she left. She
actually told my parents I'll be back later, love you.
Was not upset and left. We don't know where she went,
or who she met, or what happened to her until
(22:11):
five Sunday afternoon. The next day. The next afternoon, after
all of us trying to reach her, she finally answered
the phone. My son called her. She finally answered the phone.
He said, where are you? And she said, I'm in
front of your house. So my son Trevor hung up
(22:32):
and said, okay, I'm on my way out. He went
out there. She wasn't there, and he called her back.
He said, you're not here. Where are you? And she said,
I don't know. I'm with my car. And isn't it
true that in that conversation, your son says, Abby sounded
very disoriented, that she didn't seem to know what was
(22:56):
going on. What do you mean by that? What do
you mean? But she sounded disoriented. She didn't sound drunk
or slurring, but she did not know where she was,
She didn't know who was with her. All she could
say to him was I'm in my car. I'm with
my car. And the more he tried to question her,
that's all he could get from her was And this
(23:19):
conversation went on four minutes, and all she could say
over and is I'm with my car. I don't know
who I'm with. I don't know where I am, and
he when that's all I could get from her, he
called my husband to get her phone, paining to find
out where she was. That that's what was going on.
(23:43):
He called my husband. That's what they were trying to do.
At the same time, my husband's driving everywhere looking to her.
And when Trevor called her back, she never answered again.
We've never heard from her again since that phone call
to dot Washburn little radio host joining us. Isn't it
true that a few days after she disappears, her car
(24:05):
it was a silver Volkswagen, and her belongings, including her
cell phone, her contact lenses, were found in West Little Rock?
What do we know, Doc? Yeah, the car was found
and the guy who found it was I guess the
security guy there at the at the development of the
(24:28):
neighborhood there in West Little Rock, and he contacted the
police saying, I don't know why this this car is
out here. Um, I guess the the keys are still
an ignission, that the battery was dead, it was out
of gas, and it took several days for the police
to respond. Why did it take several days for the
(24:49):
police to respond. Ebby had already been reported missing and
this is her car. Yeah, sure, well the the guy,
the guy didn't know it was was Ebbie car apparently.
But when the police did finally went out there and
got the car, you know, Eddie's name is on the title,
and her birth father's name is on the title, and
(25:11):
even though everybody in town knows she's missing, the police
called the birth father and say, hey, we find a
car out here. What's what's going on? As if they didn't, Nancy,
let me interrupt you. Here that security guard Guy Hooper
is speaking to reporters about the discovery of the remains
(25:31):
in the drainage pipe. Let's listen. Long years when I
got the call about what they had possibly found, you
hit the real hard. But probably within a hundred yards
were the young like hello or whoever it is, was
down there. We think, we hope for closure, that the
way we hope it's not, but then we still don't
(25:53):
have answers. That just seems unimaginable to me that this girl,
this young girl, a high schooler for Pete's sake, goes
missing in a relatively small town. I mean, I mean,
we compare it to New York or l A, San Francisco.
This is a small town everybody knows she's missing, and
(26:15):
there's her car, and it takes days for police to
get there. And then they called the dango, Oh hey,
even found your car. For that matter, the guy who
finds the car. UM. You know, Ebie's family was told, oh, yeah,
we interviewed him and everything, etcetera, etcetera. Months later to
find out, no, they didn't. Months later to find out
(26:37):
that apparently this guy had a video on a thumb drive,
UM that they never bothered messing with for that matter. UM.
The refusal to try to find out much about the
people she was hanging out with. UM, nobody with a
(26:58):
police department, with with a crew that was investigating this
at first, was was interested in trying to get cell
phones of people that she was with. I mean, it's
just one thing after another. And and the verbal abuse
I believe, and of course Laurie can speak to us
better than than I can, uh that that she and
her husband experienced from from people who are still on
(27:21):
the forest with a little wife. Police depart hold on
hold on verbal abuse abuse on a victim's mom with
me is Ebby's mom. And if you could see the
photos of this girl, she is absolutely stunning She's just
precious and in a few short years, my little Lucy
(27:44):
would be her age and my John David too. Laurie Jurakin,
who is Ebbie's mom. What is Dot Washburn saying about?
What verbal abuse? Is doc talking about? Lorie? I it
happened the whole during the whole case. These officers, this lieutenant,
(28:06):
the sergeant, the detective. No one would investigate this, no one.
It went on and I would show up at the
police station. I brought I can't tell you how many
copies of phone records I brought. Every time I would
show up, they would It would be ugly, and they
got mad because I would come down and confront them. Uh,
(28:28):
they got mad because I would show that, you know,
I would show where they were lying to me. It
got so bad that the prosecutor here in Little Rock
sent one of his ex employees with me so she
could take notes, just just to have some when they're
(28:48):
taking notes. That's the third party. When I asked them
for the phones, the boys phones, they said no, we
didn't get them, and I was just I couldn't believe it.
Another one of Ebbie's friends had Abby's original phone and
had been sharing the cloud with Ebby. I asked if
(29:10):
they got her phone. No, we didn't get them. I
asked them, are they know we're not we don't have
probable cause. I was just outrage. I can't even describe
how I felt, how I still feel about it. I'm
so angry. Um, when I I got so angry that
(29:31):
the whole police force, like the captain, all the lieutenants,
everyone met with me. I went over reason after reason
after reason to get these boys phones, to get subpoenas
for him. And that captain looked at me and said,
there's no probable cause. And I looked at him and said,
what does it take for probable cause? And he looked
(29:54):
at me and said, I decide what's probable cause. I this,
I can't even I can't even express how what that
did to my family. Over and over it got to
be so bad. Um. I had the lieutenant, well, the
(30:15):
sergeant that was head of this case at the time.
We were very angry at each other, and we had
text messages back and forth. They took my husband. They
didn't ask for polygraph tests for us from the beginning,
which we were absolutely would have done in a second. Um,
they're this sergeant for whatever reason, was hell bent on
(30:39):
running putting my my husband, putting this on my husband.
There's no wreck, I mean everything, There's nothing that would
suggest my husband had anything involved. Well, the last person
to talk to her was her brother, and your husband's
whereabouts how been verified. At the time of that conversation,
(31:02):
he was not with her. Laurie, tell Nancy Grace what
happened when you apparently committed the unpardonable sin of referring
to some of the guys that that Ebby have been
hanging out with his thugs. Yeah. I want to hear
exactly what happened, Laurie, because you confronted the police about
(31:26):
the guys that were at that party that night, and
they didn't want to hear anything about it. They did
not want to hear one word about it. So, Laurie,
my question is what has become of those guys that
you believe raped Ebby. Nothing. They've gone to school there
(31:51):
on with their lives. They've not been questioned again. They
were questioned at the very beginning briefly, Um the guy
said no, you're not getting our phones and they were left.
I mean, so they've gone on with their lives now.
Abby had a very unusual tattoo. What did it say, Lisa?
(32:12):
With every with every darker night becomes a brighter day,
and is that on her arm, that's on her torso
on her right? With every with every darker night there
comes a brighter day, and that was her heart. A
(32:36):
major break in the case in the search for ebby
Stepic in two thousand fifteen, they find her car and
now her remains are found dot Washburn. Little rock radio host,
I find it too much of coincidence that she was
raped the night before and it was videoed by the
(33:00):
creep that did it, and in the next within you know,
forty eight hours, she goes missing, her car has found
abandoned in an unrelated upscale suburban home housing development. I
find that very I mean, there is no coincidence in
criminal criminal law, I very often say so, it's hard
(33:22):
for me to think that one night she's raped, she
calls the police, she tells her stepdad, there's an outcry,
witness two of them, and then suddenly she's gone, I'm
just not buying it, Doc. No, I'm not either, Nancy.
(33:44):
And obviously you're you're thinking like a prosecutor, and you know,
I've never had any law law courses, but I've talked
to Polny lawyers and usually I think the most reasonable
explanation is a correct one. And the fact that they
people at the Little art Of Police department we were
supposed to be investigating, are telling Laurie and her husband
(34:05):
right off the bat, well, don't go to the media,
don't publicize this. And the fact that they told this
family for months. Yes, we we interviewed the custodian there
at the at the residential area where the car was found,
and then months later when Ev gets ahold of a
(34:26):
private investigator, he finds out now they didn't interview the guy,
and the guy had video on the thumb drive for months.
It might have helped, but now the thumb drive has gone.
And the fact that they're refusing to follow up with
these guys that that eye was hanging out with, I mean,
the whole crew that was handling supposedly this investigation for
(34:47):
the first eight months seemed determined to not want to
know what happened to her. I think that if they
had actually conducted a competent investigation from the start and
we would have found out Abby was planning to go
to the Little Rock p d to report a sex
(35:08):
assault a rape, but before she could actually talk to police,
before she could get to the police station, she disappears.
Why she's become famous within the Little Rock, Arkansas community,
but for for what? For going missing? Ebby goes to
(35:30):
a house party. That was the end of the trail
for Abby. For all intents and purposes. She goes to
a party on a Friday night. She has sex assaulted there.
It was video taped. Police never got that video to
(35:51):
her mom joining me Lorie Journe again, Laurie, when you
wake up in the morning and you put your feet
on the floor and you think of your girl Abby,
what goes through your mind? Um, I'm I'm devastating. I
(36:16):
miss her so much. Um. I had so much anger
towards two police that were involved in this in the beginning.
I have so much gratitude for the the cats that
have it. Now. I miss her so much. I miss
her so much. I wonder back. I want her body back. Well,
(36:46):
I'm going back over all the evidence. In my mind,
I mean, what teen girl, he's behind her cell phone
or clothing or makeup, contact lenses and her cell phone.
I mean, that's the world. Why would she willingly leave
that behind. There was a fifty thousand dollar reward offered.
(37:09):
She was last seen at her grandmother's house. She made
one mystery call to her brother, but was disoriented and
it was clearly asking for help, but couldn't seem to
be able to say where she was or who had her.
Days later, her car turns up in an upscale area
near Little Rock. It was sitting there. Took police three
(37:31):
days to come get her car, in the car, her
cell phone, her makeup, her contact lenses. No teen girl
wants to be separated from her cell phone. I can
tell you that much. So let me go to our
special guest, dout Washburn, little Rock radio host and Ebbie's mother,
(37:52):
Lorie Journe Again. Ebbie was. Ebbie was all about social media.
She was on social media you all the time, as
kids are on social media. I'm reading a post that you,
Laurie rn Again posted. It says, Lord God, Almighty, maker
of Heaven and Earth. I asked, boldly, give me Ebby today.
(38:20):
Tell me what was going through your mind when you
wrote that, Laurie. Now I write that I feel that
every day I pray to have her every day. I
have very strong faith but this will sure make you
question it. Um, I plead. We have ebby spacebook page
(38:42):
and we have so many followers that pray for her
and pray for us every day. I don't even know
most of these people, but Ebbie has touched their heart
in the mystery. You can't you can't just disappear. You
just can't disappear. You know. It's amazing to me. It's
(39:04):
amazing to me. Dot Washburn police told the parents not
to go public. That that why, you know, that's the
six or four thousand dollar question, Nancy. I wish I knew.
But again, the way they treated this family, at least
the the police with the Little Rock Police Department, who
(39:26):
were supposedly supposed to be doing the investigation for the
first eight months, is it's an outrage. Um. You know
that the people who picked up the ball after the
first eight months seemed to have been doing a good job,
but so much was lost in that initial time period
that you can't go back and get. What's amazing to
(39:48):
me is that the rape was never investigated and the
alleged rapist has now gone off to college with a scholarship.
The alleged rapists, I can't outright say rape because it
was never even investigated. So nobody's a suspect, nobody's a perpetrator,
(40:08):
nobody's person of interest because it was never investigated. And
then the videotape, as I understand it was on a
hard drive, was on and that's been lost. Explained that
to me, Doc. The thumb drive that I was talking
about was was the video of where the car was
found the security guy at the development. Wait, wait, wait,
(40:31):
there's surreillance video of her car being driven. What do
we know about that video? Is it real? Is that
her car? Well, you know, if the Little Lick Police Department,
if the people at the Little Life Police Department hadn't
lied and said, yeah, we interviewed the security guy out
of the development, and months later the p I found out,
(40:55):
well no that's not true. They didn't interview him, and
he had a thumb drive with video that area for
several months before he got rid of it. Um, you
know that there's so much like that that has been
missed by people who seem to be determined to not
find out what happened to this young lady. We're very close.
(41:16):
She she would spend the night out, but she would
come home. Um, she wanted to be at home. She
wanted her friends to be at our home. She was
more comfortable at home. There's not a day that has
been gone by in her life that she's not We
haven't been in contact or with her. Let's talk about
the facts. Let's talk about her cell phone. What evidence,
(41:40):
if any, was recovered from her cell phone? What were
her last phone calls and text Do you know that? No?
I don't why I've not been told that where's the phone?
FBI has it? The FBI? Would they allow you to
see it? We first got the phone, um, in the
(42:01):
very beginning, the little police department gave us the phone
and asked us if we knew how to unlock it.
Oh boy, that's not a good sign. And they couldn't
get it unlocked. Well, I don't know her past code.
I assumed police officers knew how to do that. Well,
ours didn't. They didn't know how to get into her Snapchat,
(42:22):
her Instagram, her Facebook. I literally had to download and
copy the the directions for law enforcement to get information
from apps. I had to download that. That's what you
agree to when you download any any app. I had
to copy that and give that to them so they
(42:42):
can figure out how to contact Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, So
the FBI has it now. It's amazing to me that
that you don't know. They haven't told you her most
her last text, her license, voicemails, who spoke to her
last and you can definitely triangulate or figure out where
(43:05):
her cell phone had been prior to finding it, and
where it had been prior to those last pings, if
anybody contacted her said hey, meet me, anything like that.
And why do you think dot Washburn that her car
turned up and this upscale housing development that she has
no connection to, It looks like somebody dumped the car
(43:27):
to me, I mean, look, if they had the search
done out there and they couldn't find any trace that
she had been in that development outside that car, you know,
even if she was abducted, it doesn't look like she
was abducted there. That that's the one thing. And then
the other thing, as what Laurie was talking about about
(43:50):
how it seemed to be like pulling teeth to get
the Little Life police department interested in checking out social media.
My understanding is, and I don't know if it's change
since every disappeared, but a little like police department didn't
have an I T. Guy. Uh, they didn't know anything
about social media. Oh, dear Lord in Heaven. I mean,
(44:11):
it wasn't that long ago. For Pete's sake, every every
force has an I T. Guy. This is what we know.
Ebby Stepic disappears October two thousand fifteen. No one has
come forward with any information. The reward has increased. It
is now fifty thousand dollars. That's a lot of money.
(44:33):
Back to Laurie journ Again, mother of missing Ebby Jane, Laura,
tell me how do you keep your hope alive? Faith?
My my belief and God. Um, that's the only thing
that keeps me going. And when I don't have it,
(44:55):
as other prayers that keep me going, that's the only
way I can keep going. Um. I will fight whoever
I need to fight until I find her, until I
find her body, until I find her, I will fight
till my last breath. I have made so many enemies
(45:16):
in our legal depart in our law enforcement here in Arkansas,
and I've had also I've also had advocates show up
in our police department. Um, that's where my that's where
my hope lives is our detective right now, Tommy Hudson,
(45:37):
he's obsessed with this. He came out of retirement for
this case. That's that's the case he works on full time. UM.
We had an assistant chief Beauley Wyane Buley that when
he removed the case from our original group, he apologized
to me over and over of how we were treated,
(45:58):
how the case was mishandled. We had files stossified, we
had um our original group investigators get into her Google
account and manipulate her account. Um. There's so many things
that were done to, like God said, prevent us from
finding our daughter. They wanted to stick with their theory
(46:20):
she's a runaway, she'll come home. Of course, police always
look at those closest to a victim, and that would
include her stepfather. Police investigated him and he has totally
been cleared. There was even no suggestion that he was
involved in this. And I want to put that in
(46:41):
the listeners minds right now, because there was nothing at
all to suggest her brother or stepfather or bio dad
had anything to do with her disappearance. And I'm saying
that because that's the first place all homicide or kidnap
investigations start with those family members and then it goes
(47:02):
out to UH love objects, romantic interests X as it
goes from there. I'm gonna put it on the record
right now. The stepfather, the bio dad, the brother have
absolutely nothing to do with Ebby's disappearance. To Ebbe's mom,
Laurie Journakin, Laurie, when you think of Abby, what is
(47:25):
your most vivid memory, how happy she is, her love
of people, animals, and her happiness, her affection, She she loved, loved, loved,
and she helped others that gave her so much story
(47:46):
to help others, her friends. The constant theme is she
would do anything for you, and she she would. Um,
I don't have that anymore. I don't have her here.
I don't get to see that face, hear her funny stories.
I don't have that anymore. And those that have come
(48:09):
to know her through this investigation, she's touched so many loves.
She's touched so many loves through all this. I have
to fight for her because Ebbie is a fighter. I
search in search and I share everything I searched, and
that's what Ebby would do for me. The irony and
(48:30):
the discovery of these remains that we believe our Ebby's
tomorrow as National Missing Children's Day, and we are devoting
ourselves to finding missing children. And my heart is breaking
for the stepics now. And if you have information regarding
(48:55):
who killed little Ebby and put her parents through so
much misery, please call five zero one three seven one
four six three six or six six to four to
zero six five one eight. There is a fifty thousand
(49:17):
dollar reward. Nancy Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friend.
There's a brand new website causing a lot of trouble
for people with something to hide? Have you ever had
a bad feeling about somebody, suspect that a partner of cheating,
(49:37):
worried about your online reputation? If you answer yes to
any of those questions, you may need truth Finder. Truth
Finder may reveal court records, bankruptcies, contact information, social dating profiles, assets,
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(49:59):
to a of an eye when you can do the
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and enter any name to get started. M
Host
Nancy Grace
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