August 16, 2024 • 41 mins
Dueling documentaries are being released about the death of Laci Peterson and her unborn son, Conner.
Netflix is debuting American Murder: Laci Peterson, a three-part docuseries directed by Skye Borgman. The series includes Laci's mother, Sharon Rocha, speaking publicly for the first time since Laci’s tragic death. The second documentary, Face to Face with Scott Peterson, is a new three-part series premiering on Peacock on August 20. In this series, Scott Peterson, who was accused of the murder, speaks for the first time in the 21 years since his arrest.
Peterson reportedly admits to being unfaithful, calling himself a “total a-hole” for having an affair, but continues to deny killing Laci. Peterson was involved with Amber Frey at the time of Laci's disappearance. It was Laci’s stepfather, Ron Grantski, who reported her missing, not her husband. Initially, Scott Peterson told friends he had gone to play golf, but later changed his story to say he went fishing. Peterson has been fighting for years to overturn his conviction.
Although his death sentence was initially overturned, the California Supreme Court upheld his conviction while overturning the death sentence due to the improper dismissal of some jurors based on their views on the death penalty. Peterson remains in prison, sentenced to life without parole, but he is not giving up. In an effort to secure a new trial, Scott Peterson's legal team requested DNA testing on more than a dozen pieces of evidence.
However, after hearing the arguments, the judge ruled that only a single 15.5-inch piece of duct tape found on Laci Peterson's pants during her autopsy would be tested for DNA. The court denied requests to test all other evidence.
JOINING NANCY GRACE TODAY
- Skye Borgman - Director, "American Murder: Laci Peterson;" social media: @skyeborgman
- Richard Herman - Defense Attorney, X: @richardbherman website:
- Caryn L. Stark – Psychologist, Renowned TV and Radio Trauma Expert and Consultant; Instagram: carynpsych/FB: Caryn Stark Private Practice
- Dr. Eric Eason – Board-certified Forensic Pathologist, Consultant; Instagram: @eric_a_eason, Facebook: Eric August Eason, LinkedIn: Eric Eason, MD
- Susan Hendricks – Journalist, Author of “Down the Hill: My Descent into the Double Murder in Delphi;” IG @susan_hendricks, X @SusanHendicks“
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Scott Peterson. Does it never end with this guy? Remember him?
He was sitting on death row for years for the
murder of his wife, Lacey and their.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Unborn child Connor.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yes, well somehow he did a backflip and he's no
longer on death row, and now he says he's totally innocent,
claiming that a burned mattress and duct tape will prove quote,
I didn't murder Lacey. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Scott Peterson convicted of killing his wife Lacey and their
unborn son Connor. Now twenty two years later, he's speaking out.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
He's speaking out now, really, he's speaking out now when
he had the opportunity at trial to take the stand
and explain to the jury how he's innocent and he
did not kill his wife and unborn child, Connor. So
now he's speaking out for the cameras, okay, where nobody
(01:17):
such as me can cross examine him.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Wow, that'll be a piece of cake.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I just wonder how much money he or his family
is making off speaking out now. That said, I want
you to hear and I'm really looking forward to this
coming out on Netflix, American Murder Lacy Peterson. It's going
to be followed by a documentary. Oops almost in documentary,
(01:47):
but documentary in which Peterson allegedly speaks. But that said,
I want you to hear this from Netflix American Murder
Lacy Peterson.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was having Christmas Eve at my house and she
was going to have Christmas Morning at her house, and
that's pretty much when everything started. Scott called me to
find out if Lacy was at my house and I
said no, and he said, well that she's missing. Missing.
What do you mean missing? I mean, people don't use
(02:23):
that term lightly. So I told him to call her
friends and find out if anybody had seen her.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Christmas Eve. I got a call from Scott Licy's missing.
Have you talked to her today? What do you mean missing?
Where could she possibly be?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
He called and said the same thing to me, that
she's missing, and I was like, what do you mean missing?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Called me back and said that nobody has seen her.
I told Ron called the police, and I called a
friend of mine to come and pick me up. Because
it was so I've said, I mean instantly, it was panic.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Instantly you are hearing American Murder Lacy Peterson, it's going
to air on Netflix, and joining me right now, an
entire all star panel very intimately familiar with the Scott
Peterson case. But first a special guest, Sky Borgman, joining
us out of la the director of American Murder, Lacy Peterson. Sky,
(03:26):
thank you for being with us. You know what just
right there that takes me right back to the trial
and all the times that I have spoken with Lacey's mother,
Sharon Roache. And you know what, Sky, I will never
forget as long as I live. I had been out
in front of the courthouse. It was so hot, race
back in because Sharon was going to testify, and as
(03:49):
I recall, she had on this beautiful yellow outfit, and
I was almost late, and they would shut the doors
and let nobody in.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I got in at the end, entirely back row.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I had to sit on my backpack so I could
see Sharon, and she described, amongst so many other things,
sky burying her daughter, her skeletal remains, and in the
casket she buried baby Connor in Lacey's skeleton arms, so
(04:26):
that in death she could hold the baby.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
She was looking forward to so much. And I will.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Never forget Sharon Roache as long as I lip that
woman has lived through hell Sky.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
Yeah, she really hasn't. She's an incredible woman, and she
really looks she hasn't. She hasn't really wanted to participate
in a documentary about Lacey, and we were so honored
and so happy that she chose to talk with us.
And I think a lot of the reason behind that
is because there have been these other documentaries that are
saying that Scott Peterson is innocent and very much focused
(05:05):
on Scott, and she wanted our documentary, her documentary, any
documentary that she speaks on, to really.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Be about lazy.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
And I hope that we accomplish that in a way
that makes Sharon proud. I certainly think it will, and
I think our documentary is very lazy, for it is
always what I'm the most interested in when I'm telling
stories is having the victim really be at the forefront
of the story.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
In a sky.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's really a huge fat to get Sharon to speak
because it's so painful for her even now to talk
about Lacey going.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Missing and what happened.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I want to bring it back to what we
just played from the upcoming Netflix documentary which is called
American Murder Lacey Paterson Sky because I'm about to go
to a veteran trial lawyer who will disagree with me,
Richard Herman. But I remember when my son, and it
(06:11):
was just for a few moments, we were in this
giant baby superstore. He was about too It's got a
twin sister, Lucy, and I was way down on a
shelf from floor to ceiling looking for organic sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Don't even ask, but I stood up.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I said, well they don't have it, and I turned
around and there was Lucy.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I know John David.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I did not call my husband and say John David's missing.
I started screaming to the top of the lungs my
son's gone, and running through the stores. Hu's like a
warehouse with Lucy under my arm like a football, screaming
his name.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He's gone right there.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You capsulize it, Sky, who says Lacy's missing. Missing is
what you determine after all effort are exhausted, then she's missing.
You start with saying, hey, have you say Lacey.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
That's how you start. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
I mean, like I understand maybe that there was some
super weird behavior from Scott Peterson. But I think even
beyond the strange behavior that Scott exhibits, when you really
look at the evidence, to me, it sort of stacks
up and says one thing, and that's what the jury
decided on twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
When you say you look at the evidence and it
stacks up and says one thing, which evidence particularly speaks
to you, Scott.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Look, it's circumstantial, let's be real, but it is a
big stack of circumstantial evidence. What speaks to me the
most are, honestly, the conversations he had with Amber Fry,
the woman that he was in a relationship with while
he was still married, while Lacy was still alive, and
he talks about the end of his relationship, the end
of Lacey, the end of his wife. Before Lacey's goes
(07:56):
missing on December ninth, he talks about his marriage being over,
that his wife is dead. So he's sort of projecting
in a way, and that to me, and I believe
that to the jury members, at least the ones that
we spoke to, that was really the tipping point for
them to go. This was premeditated. This is something that
Scott was planned.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Joining me high profile trial lawyer Richard Herman defense attorney
joining us out of Vegas but practices all over the country,
and Richard Bheerman dot com Richard go ahead. Second verse,
same as the first hit me.
Speaker 7 (08:31):
The sky is right. The case is completely circumstantial and
circumstantial evens is strong. However, there's no murder weapon, there
are no witnesses, there's no determination of cause, time and
day to death. We have a trial judge who completely
screwed up and sentencing during the penalty phase, and therefore
the death penalty was reversed taken off. These are errors
(08:53):
in the case. Nancy. We want the search or truth.
That's what you want. That's what we all want. And
the defense is going to do everything they can to
show how the Medestinal police was horrible, how they did
not do a proper investigation here, how it means and
evidence is missing, which missing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
They did an exhaustive investigation. And let me start off
with what Sky just played for us. Day one moment,
one minute one. Scott Peterson is lying. He lied to
Amber Fry.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What is he? Clairvoyant?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Herman? He says to his mistress, Oh, this is my
first Christmas without my wife. She's dead, and then a
few weeks later, guess what, she was dead and he
had his first Christmas without his wife. You really want
me to think somebody else engineered that?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Seriously?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I mean really, just take off your hat as defense
attorney and be straight, just this one time. That's bs
He predicted it. Two weeks later it came true. Joining
me and Hendricks, investigative journalist and author of Down the Hill,
My Descent into the double murder in Delphi, Susan and
(10:07):
I covered the Peterson trial together.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Day after day after day.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Susan Hendricks the reports that Lacy Peterson was walking her dog.
We have been over and over and over those reports.
Those witnesses may have seen Lacy Peterson walking her dog
on a different day, at a different time. I have
(10:32):
heard about the dog walking ad nauseum, and it.
Speaker 8 (10:37):
Was brought up in the original trial, I mean Nancy
in the original trial, and I remember watching you and
you covering this. I feel like, although circumstantial, everything came
together in terms of what Scott did in the days
leading up to this, and what stands out to me
the most would be the boat that apparently no one
(10:58):
knew that he owned, and of course the interviews that
he did at the time, that raspy voice in a
whisper with no tears, talking really low and calmly about Lacey.
But there are people, groups of people on Twitter now
known as x that believe he is innocent, including his
sister in law, who, by the way, became a lawyer
(11:20):
to prove this. But I think you're right. The first
verdict that came back was the right one for Scott.
It'll be interesting to hear him speak, but I will
say I'm looking forward to the Netflix documentary to hear
more about Lacey and her family.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, back to the evidence at trial, and I'm going
to remind everybody, and I'm sure Sky Vorgman found this
as she was creating this incredible documentary. It's airing on Netflix.
American Murder Lacy Peterson. The testimony from those that knew
Lacy the best before she was murdered states that she
can no longer walk the dog as she had done.
(11:58):
It was time for her to give She was not
out walking her dog. That's not what happened now, Sky.
It's being argued that those witnesses that think they saw
her walking the dog after she'd already been kidnapped, they
have been interviewed.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
They have been interviewed. They were interviewed at the time
they were interviewed before the trial by Modesto PD, And
what Modesto PD continues to say is that nobody could
positively identify a person walking a dog as Lacy Peterson.
They may have seen a pregnant woman walking Golden retriever,
(12:39):
they may have seen a.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Non pregnant woman walking a different dog.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
They may have seen a woman in a white top
and black pants walking, But nobody that knew Lacey, that
knew who she was, could say I saw Lazy Peterson
walking Mackenzie at whatever time in the afternoon. That's what
Modesto Police says. There are police records to back it up.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
This was not somebody who was waiting for his wife
to come back.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Contacted by telephone, Scott Peterson said, quote, I hope their
efforts helped find my wife and kid. Her father told
NBC News quote, I'm glad they are looking in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I know he did it.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
At this point of the investigation, we think we know
what's going on, but we can't prove it yet. He's
predicting his wife is missing. Two weeks before she's missing.
Maybe he made five anchors and we can only find one.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Her hair is wrapped.
Speaker 9 (13:38):
Up in a pair of needlenosed pliers in his boat
that nobody knows about. We are feeling we have enough,
let's take him down, but we couldn't find the body.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We had a list of circumstantial evidence pointing at Scott,
but the DA in Stanslaw County, he told us privately, said,
you know, bring me a body or you don't have
a filing.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You're hearing just a tiny tidbit from American murder Lacy
Peterson airing on Netflix, And what a minage that was
of evidence that later came out at trial day one,
Lacey's dad says, I know he did it. They knew
(14:23):
on day one, but the prosecutor there in Stanislaus County said,
not going forward without a body, and can I remind
everyone how day after day after day, Scott Peterson was
tracked by GPS tracker going out to the edge of
San Francisco Bay looking out at the.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Water where she then washed ashore.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
First came a little baby's body, and then came Lacy.
What about that Richard Herman, that doesn't speak to you?
That out of all the places Scott Peterson could have
been looking for his missing wife, he happened to hone
in on the body of water where she was ultimately found.
Speaker 10 (15:08):
Which speaks to me more is the DNA evidence on
the duct tape and other items that the Innocent Project
of California finally is getting access to to run tests
on because they believe there are other persons attached to that,
to that document, to those to that duct tape. Can
you imagine if they were Can.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You answer the question, the question I asked you about
Scott Peterson repeatedly going and gazing out at the San
Francisco Bay, the body of water where Lacey and Connor
were found, and you.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Won't answer it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Out of all the places on earth he could go
look for his wife, he goes there where she was,
where her body had been thrown.
Speaker 10 (15:54):
Yeah, I know you want me to answer that. I
don't want to answer that. I'm to look at other.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
Items here, I bet.
Speaker 10 (15:58):
I mean that's not good, that's not good. But there
are other items that could exonerate him. And every item
is going to get turned over, piece by piece by piece.
Man's liberties at stake, and they have every right to
do that, and you, as a former decorative prosecutor, you
want the search for the truth, and we'd let it
get to the bottom line of everything. And at the
(16:18):
end of the day, if the evidence is not there,
or the DNA evidence doesn't show anything, then this condition
is going to stand.
Speaker 7 (16:25):
Twenty two years already he's in prison.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
See, you don't want to talk about the hard evidence.
You don't want to talk about And let me remind everybody,
as sky Borgman stated and Richard Herman has stated in
the past, not today. Of course, he was not going
to mention that unless I pull it out of him.
But I'm not a DDS, I'm a JdE. I can't
pull teeth. But Richard Herman knows as well as all
practicing lawyers that the black and white letter of the
(16:49):
lawyer law is circumstantial evidence is as powerful and probative
as direct evidence, such as an eyewitness or DNA or
a fingerp Circumstantial evidence under the law is given the
same way if a jury so decides as direct evidence.
Speaking of the so called DNA evidence on a duct
(17:13):
tape to which Richard Herrman is referring, listen.
Speaker 11 (17:17):
In an attempt to get a new trial, Scott Peterson's
team sought to have DNA testing done on over a
dozen pieces of evidence. After presenting their case, the judge
ruled that a single fifteen point five inch long piece
of duct tape that was found on Lacy Peterson's pants
at the time of her autopsy will be tested for DNA.
(17:38):
All the other evidence that Peterson's lawyers were asking to
have new DNA tests on were denied.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Okay to Susan Hendricks is joining US investigative journalist who
was on the case from the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Scott Peterson, who is somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Mashed at Wiggles's Way Off Death Row and the double
murder of Lacy and Connor, is now saying a burned
out mattress and what he thinks is going to be
DNA on a piece of duct tape will prove he's innocent.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Tell me about the duct tape, Susan.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
Yeah, I believe we will find that out because the
judge ruled that that piece of evidence could be retested
that was found on a pair of pants with Lacey's
remain So I believe that's in September that we shall
see that what will be on that duct tape and
like you said, Nancy, if it is something that will
free Scott Peterson, if he's not the person, that's what
(18:32):
everyone would want. And we've been talking and I see
pictures of Lacey on Loopierre and I remember speaking with
Fred Goldman years ago and he said, that's the most difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
They will always.
Speaker 8 (18:43):
Remain that age. And I can't imagine for Sharon what
she has to see and continues to go through. You
remember seeing her in that yellow in the courtroom and Connor,
her grandson, being buried in the arms of Lacey. The wrenching,
heartbreaking situation that she is still in twenty plus years later.
(19:05):
But again, Connor, her grandson, would have been what mid
twenties and Lacey a lot older, But she is stuck
in that moment and those are the memories that her
family has.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Joining me is a renowned pathologist, doctor Eric Easen, Doctor Ason,
thank you for being with us. The state of Lacey's
body when she was discovered, to my understanding, is that
she was basically skeletonized. Her pants, her maternity pants were
(19:38):
still loosely I think around the lower part of her skeleton.
Now there is a move a foot and it has
been granted by the judge for DNA testing to be
performed on duct tape found on those pants. Now, what
(19:58):
does that tell me? That Lacey was duct tape and
likely weighted down when she was killed. Baby Connor, however,
was almost pristine. His little body had been protected by
the thick uterine lining and wall of muscle. So when
that uterus finally decomposed, he basically floated out of her
(20:24):
stomach and washed ashore. The person that found baby Connor
said he looked like a little baby doll.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Not so for Lacey.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Explain to me what happened to Lacey's body. This is
the piece of duct tape the defense wants tested attached
to those maternity pants.
Speaker 12 (20:47):
So what happened to the body is the death occurred,
and it sounds like the body was placed into the water,
and over time, the body is going to start to decompose,
and that's going to occur from two different processes. And
so internally, when death occurs, the enzymes inside the body
will start to auto digest the tissue and that's combined
(21:07):
with bacteria and other animals that are going to predate
on the body and cause further decomposition. And so you're
going to end up over time, ending up with a skeleton.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
She's been gone almost as long as she was here.
I just wanted to be remembered as a person and
not as a victim of murder.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
She was alive, She's still lived to all of us.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I see dragonflies and I think of her this time
of the year. As a matter of fact, her legacies
is that she was a loving person. She left her husband.
She trusted her husband, and he betrayed her. He betrayed her,
and he betrayed everybody else. His family, our family, everybody
turned out.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
To veterans law. You're Richard Herman joining me out in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Scott Peterson quote speaks out, Really shouldn't he have done
that at the time of the trial. He's not going
to get cross examined, he's not going to get tested.
He's going to say whatever a fluffy piece of bs
he wants to say.
Speaker 10 (22:15):
Yeah. I think it's pretty dangerous for him to be
speaking out right now on any TV series. This is
what's going to get This could seal it for him
because nothing good is going to come from what he's
going to say in this documentary. Nothing good he can't
exonerate himself. Nobody believes him. He has no credibility personally,
so they have to get the evidence elsewhere. But him
(22:36):
speaking out, I think that's a very bad move. I
can't believe his defense counsel is letting him do it.
I wouldn't let a client do it. And it's just
it's no good. It's fraught with danger and fitthballs, and
a good interviewer probably bury him.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
So a good.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Interviewer, Richard Herman, Yes, if you or I were cross
examining him, he'd be limping out of that courtroom. But
instead this is a fluff piece, unlike what we're hearing
and American Murder Lacy Peterson focusing on Lacey Sky Boardman
is with us and she is the director of American
(23:15):
Murder Lacy Peterson Sky. I want to bring everybody's attention
back to what happened then, Not my opinion, not Richard
Herman's opinion of innocence, not what's going to be on
a special or a documentary that's going to occur on Netflix,
but the actual evidence. I want you to listen along
(23:36):
with me in the panel to Ron Grantsky's nine to
one one call listen.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Yes, my fellow, low call saying, well morning, my daughter has.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Been listing this morning.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
You have done for a walk in the cart from here.
God came home with.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Came.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I forgot your daughter right way, Peter, your stepdaughter lay.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Peter, thank e r F right p e r f
l if you got the Senecasian.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
She's forty, she's pack.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Why can you hear you the happening and come back
that we don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
We just got a call from our son in law.
Get he left your point at night the play off
about a half hour ago.
Speaker 13 (24:29):
Nowhere around anything.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
He would come up to the dog.
Speaker 14 (24:31):
Way walked it in here in that party he said.
Speaker 13 (24:37):
Pardon pregnant.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Watery okay, okay, okay, thanks all right, skyboardman. Let me
understand something and then I don't want call. Peterson tells
his father in law, at least his dad he went
playing golf.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Crazy me, I thought he said he went fishing.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
That's one of the intric interesting things about this too,
is this fishing or golf story that Scott put out there.
From my understanding, he told he told ron Gramski that
he went golfing, and he told one other neighbor that
he went golfing. Everybody else he told he went fishing.
I mean, I've tried to figure out the psychology behind that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
If it was just saink, I know the psychology. You
probably remember when I just told you the story about
when my son went missing in the Baby's er Us superstore. Yeah,
that story has never never changed. Has it changed, Shackie.
I've been telling it since he was almost two years old.
He's sixteen. Now, Why, because that's what happened. I haven't
changed it too. I was waltzing through sax Fifth Avenue. No,
(25:44):
I haven't said I was jogging. I haven't changed a
story that we were out in a park. Why because
that's not true. I think I know why he changed
his story, And I'm going to get.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
This from Susan Hendricks.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Susan Hendricks, joining US investigative journalist and author, covered the case.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Isn't it true that he changed his story?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Scott Peterson changed his story from golfing to fishing at
the San Francisco Bay, the marina where Lacey's body turned up,
after it came out that the guy collecting tickets or
letting people in and out of the parking area at
the marina remembered him.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So he was busted.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
He really was, and he had an explanation at the
time for anything that came his way, saying, well, the
weather in a whisper really wasn't good for golfing, so
you take a boat that no one knows you own
and go out on a boat when the weather's bad.
And I remember on December eighth, which screams premeditation to me,
he googled the tide, the bay tide for that time.
(26:51):
So I believe that Amber Fry gave him a motive
to do what he did, and he was able to
change the story from golfing to in his boat. You're
right now, see when he was busted, when he was caught.
And it doesn't surprise me that this narcissistic psychopath, in
my opinion, wants to speak out now because he believes
that he's charming enough to do so, and that what
(27:12):
he says may charm those who believe he is guilty.
Speaker 15 (27:16):
We'd like to thank all of you for being here
and helping us is trying to find our daughter. I
would just like to send a message out there that
whoever has her, please please please let her go bring
her back.
Speaker 12 (27:32):
So much.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
What a bock.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Please close our backs.
Speaker 15 (27:43):
We want her and our grandson home safely and immediately,
so please bring her back to us.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That is painful to watch. That is Sharon, that Slicy's
mom and Ron Grantsky dad, her stepdad, begging for her
safe return with my sky boardman Director of American Murder,
Lacey Paterson Sky You know, I remember that moment, and
(28:13):
even now when I see Sharon speaking in your special,
it seems like all that is still just just below
the surface.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
It is. I mean, I don't know if anybody could
ever recover from the loss of a child. I know
Sharon moves on, she lives her life, it doesn't consume her,
but she misses Lacey every day and she loves Lacey
every day. And it's a terrible tragedy. And I think
with all of the appeals, look, Scott Peterson and the
team behind him have been appealing for the last twenty years.
(28:46):
This hasn't it hasn't gone away. Scott has been there
presently and Sharon has to be on the receiving end
of that and she hears what's happening. And now with
this new DNA evidence, that they've put forward. It's hard
for her, it's hard for the entire family.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Speaking of Scott Peterson, take a listen to face to
face with Scott Peterson. A reminder he had a chance
to say on this in front of a jury, but
he knew he would be cross examined.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Listen, thanks for talking with me today.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
He didn't want to be a dad, didn't want to
pay childson board, didn't want to space spousal and this
is the way he thought about getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I believe my brother in law, Scott has been wrongfully
convicted of that murder. Okay, what about a burned out,
formerly bloody mattress. Peterson says, we'll exonerate him. To Susan Hendricks,
investigative journalist, what's he talking about.
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Yeah, there were two people arrested, though connected to I
believe it was a burglary or robbery in the area
during that same time period. But it doesn't mean, Nancy,
that two bad things couldn't have happened during the same time.
And I believe those involved in that have been questioned
and wanted to prove so much so that they were
not involved in the disappearance of Lacey but that tape
(30:20):
on Lacey's remains on her pants and the DNA testing,
will that show anything that will prove that Scott is innocent?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That is the big question.
Speaker 8 (30:28):
And I heard Skuy say that she's wondering how Lacey died,
and I don't believe will ever hear exactly.
Speaker 15 (30:36):
How she was.
Speaker 8 (30:37):
And I remember through the years hearing her mother say
that's what she wonders the most. How much did my
daughter suffer and what really happened to her? And I
don't see her ever reading the answer.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
To that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
To doctor Eric Ason, certified forensic pathologist. Doctor Ayson, her
body was essentially skeletonized. How can you ever get a
cod on a skeletonized body?
Speaker 12 (31:14):
Well, part of the problem is that only the torso
was found and the head was never recovered, and so
the best guess that I have is that he was
either a blunt force head trauma or a gunshot wounded
the head, or strangulation or throat slash, something like that.
But if the head is never going to be recovered,
then the cause of death is probably never going to
(31:34):
be found. I definitely know that the torso was found
and there were no gunshot wounds or stab wounds or
rib fractures or anything that would indicate that the trauma
was to the torso, so the cause of death is
still unknown.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Some evidence that Peterson is touting is said to include
a burnt van near the neighborhood, possibly connected to a burglary.
The fire investigator in Modesto at the time investigated the
burned out van. The vehicle was near the neighborhood and
it had a mattress in the back with a brown
(32:10):
stain on it. Some people feared it was human blood. Okay,
I don't know if that will be enough to exonerate
Scott Peterson since it's not connected to Lacy Peterson.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
That's the issue.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Listen to this for me, this elaborate night about her
missing and this tragedy and that and that that this
will be the first holidays without her.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Amber, God, I don't want to play with you. So
you know that I.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Or missing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, yes, you said you've lost your wife, obviously.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Without me staying much, but we were, Yes, you did.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I did lost my what my wife? Where Walmart?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You lost your wife? Come terminology? She's dead and then
she was. But that's not all.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Amber Fry, who many people have assailed. It's a perfectly
nice person. Now, mother, I've.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Spoken to her many many times.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
She truly believed she had hit the jackpot, found this
great single guy.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
That's just what Lacey thought. But listen to more. This
is the This is the call that.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Peterson places to Amber during Lacy Peterson's missing vigil.
Speaker 13 (33:31):
Listen ever, ever, every happy here?
Speaker 6 (33:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (33:56):
There?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I wish you could.
Speaker 13 (33:59):
Gainst I'm on the eye. I think that you're there.
I'm my the idlers getting real.
Speaker 15 (34:08):
God, you.
Speaker 13 (34:15):
Error you're there. I can't hear right now.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I'll call you on your knear.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Em Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The Eiffel Tower, my rear end. The Eiffel Tower. Richard Hermann.
He's calling his lover, claiming he's aid the Eiffel Tower,
and he's making the call during the vigil for his
missing wife.
Speaker 10 (34:49):
That's why you can't put any credibility to things. He's
telling this woman. You just can't. And you know she
a former messuse or whatever she was. She thought she
hit the jackpot with him.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
So you're telling me you can't believe what he says
to his mistress, Then why should I believe what he's
saying now in order to get out.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Of jail, to save his own skin. Why should I
believe him now?
Speaker 10 (35:12):
Because people say stupid things if they're cheating and they're
not honorable, they don't say the right things. They know
what they're doing is wrong. So you can't take credibility
for anything that he said to her. And here's another thing, Nancy,
if he really didn't want to be married, if he
didn't really want to be in that relationship, he could
have easily got a divorce. He didn't have to kill her.
(35:35):
I mean, come on, that's the extreme.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
No.
Speaker 14 (35:38):
I met Scott Peterson November twentieth, two thousand and two.
I was introduced to him. I was told he was unmarried.
Scott told me he was not married. We did have
a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in
the Lacy Peterson disappearance in the case, contacted the Modesto
(36:01):
Police Department. Although I could have sold or sold the
photos of Scott and I to tabloids, I knew this
was not the right thing to do. For fear of
jeopardizing the case or the police investigation. I will not
comment further.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
While the case is not all about Amberfry. If it
had not been for Amberfry coming forward, I sometimes wonder
if the case would ever have been cracked. Joining me
an all star panel to sky Boardman, the director of
American Murder, Lacy Peterson on Netflix, sky what led you
(36:46):
to take on this endeavor because you know a competing
streamer is going to come out with another special that
is all about but you chose this to be about
the facts of the trial and about Lacey and Sharon.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
You know, it's been twenty years since this was really
in the media in a significant way, and I remember
following it. But what was interesting to me is there
were so many things that I either didn't know or
details that I'd forgotten, and so sort of diving back
into it and doing the research, it just became more
and more clear to me what was happening, what was
(37:28):
going on during the time, and the different layers and
intricacies of this trial, but also how it was Really
it's not that much of a head scratcher. You watch
it and you're like, this seems to lead to a
certain point. It's not a mystery, it's not unknown. It's
pretty obvious what happened, and that's really something I got
as I was doing the research for this, and it
(37:50):
got to be very clear that this was a story
about Lacy Peterson, and that the facts that were presented
to a trial twenty years ago, years ago are still
the facts today.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I just wonder why, sky that so many people want
to latch on to facts that are not true that
were brought up a trial that Jerry heard them. Is
it the sensationalism that someone else murdered Lacey? What is it?
Speaker 6 (38:23):
I think it's sensationalism. I think some of it may
be denial. I think people want to believe in goodness
in people. But I really feel like there's a lot
of misinformation out there as well. You know, as soon
as things started getting on Reddit threads and all of
these different forums, and somebody grabs onto something and it
changes slightly. It's like this telephone game, and it changes
(38:45):
slightly again, and it changes slightly again, and it becomes
the truth without really looking at the actual evidence at
police reports, and so these ideas can sort of start
to really grow into something that isn't truthful at all.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Hard for me to look at Scott Peterson. I'm looking
at him right now, answering softball questions by some producer.
When I look at him, Sky, I think about Lacy
and how our life was cut short, the murder of
a helpless pregnant woman that could barely even go for
(39:22):
a walk, and then Connor, their baby boy. She and
her whole family were so ecstatic about the first baby.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Their world in front of them.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm just and then I look at him. It's never
about Gee. I didn't kill her, so let's find who did.
It's never about that, It's always about him. Never a
mention of wow, if I didn't do it, who did?
Speaker 10 (39:56):
Never?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Never, Sky. Look if they've come up with theories.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
They've come up with theory about this robbery across the street,
this burglary across the street that happened, and it must
have been these burglars that absconded with her, grabbed her,
through her in a van and took off with her.
But even that, it's just timelines don't match up.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
The color of the van.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
They've got this orange man now that's burnt out, that
was found a mile away. People reported seeing a white
fan in the neighborhood. The timeline of it is completely different.
The burglars, since themselves say that they were there early
morning hours. They couldn't have been there. The times, the dates,
it's all sort of mixed up, and it just doesn't
really lead to any consistency in any.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Kind of story.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
And these burglars were burglars, they're not. I think it's
a big step to go from being a burglar.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
To go to being a man.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
They were a found sky, they were found and questioned
and pollyed.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, all I know is this.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Looking at Sharon and Rocha now in your Special American Murder,
Lucy Paterson, I see that her pain has not lessened.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
We wait as justice continues to unfold. Goodbye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Scott Peterson. Does it never end with this guy? Remember him?
He was sitting on death row for years for the
murder of his wife, Lacey and their.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Unborn child Connor.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yes, well somehow he did a backflip and he's no
longer on death row, and now he says he's totally innocent,
claiming that a burned mattress and duct tape will prove quote,
I didn't murder Lacey. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
Thank you for being with us.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Scott Peterson convicted of killing his wife Lacey and their
unborn son Connor. Now twenty two years later, he's speaking out.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
He's speaking out now, really, he's speaking out now when
he had the opportunity at trial to take the stand
and explain to the jury how he's innocent and he
did not kill his wife and unborn child, Connor. So
now he's speaking out for the cameras, okay, where nobody
(01:17):
such as me can cross examine him.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Wow, that'll be a piece of cake.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I just wonder how much money he or his family
is making off speaking out now. That said, I want
you to hear and I'm really looking forward to this
coming out on Netflix, American Murder Lacy Peterson. It's going
to be followed by a documentary. Oops almost in documentary,
(01:47):
but documentary in which Peterson allegedly speaks. But that said,
I want you to hear this from Netflix American Murder
Lacy Peterson.
Speaker 4 (02:00):
I was having Christmas Eve at my house and she
was going to have Christmas Morning at her house, and
that's pretty much when everything started. Scott called me to
find out if Lacy was at my house and I
said no, and he said, well that she's missing. Missing.
What do you mean missing? I mean, people don't use
(02:23):
that term lightly. So I told him to call her
friends and find out if anybody had seen her.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Christmas Eve. I got a call from Scott Licy's missing.
Have you talked to her today? What do you mean missing?
Where could she possibly be?
Speaker 5 (02:45):
He called and said the same thing to me, that
she's missing, and I was like, what do you mean missing?
Speaker 4 (02:53):
Called me back and said that nobody has seen her.
I told Ron called the police, and I called a
friend of mine to come and pick me up. Because
it was so I've said, I mean instantly, it was panic.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Instantly you are hearing American Murder Lacy Peterson, it's going
to air on Netflix, and joining me right now, an
entire all star panel very intimately familiar with the Scott
Peterson case. But first a special guest, Sky Borgman, joining
us out of la the director of American Murder, Lacy Peterson. Sky,
(03:26):
thank you for being with us. You know what just
right there that takes me right back to the trial
and all the times that I have spoken with Lacey's mother,
Sharon Roache. And you know what, Sky, I will never
forget as long as I live. I had been out
in front of the courthouse. It was so hot, race
back in because Sharon was going to testify, and as
(03:49):
I recall, she had on this beautiful yellow outfit, and
I was almost late, and they would shut the doors
and let nobody in.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
I got in at the end, entirely back row.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
I had to sit on my backpack so I could
see Sharon, and she described, amongst so many other things,
sky burying her daughter, her skeletal remains, and in the
casket she buried baby Connor in Lacey's skeleton arms, so
(04:26):
that in death she could hold the baby.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
She was looking forward to so much. And I will.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Never forget Sharon Roache as long as I lip that
woman has lived through hell Sky.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
Yeah, she really hasn't. She's an incredible woman, and she
really looks she hasn't. She hasn't really wanted to participate
in a documentary about Lacey, and we were so honored
and so happy that she chose to talk with us.
And I think a lot of the reason behind that
is because there have been these other documentaries that are
saying that Scott Peterson is innocent and very much focused
(05:05):
on Scott, and she wanted our documentary, her documentary, any
documentary that she speaks on, to really.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Be about lazy.
Speaker 6 (05:14):
And I hope that we accomplish that in a way
that makes Sharon proud. I certainly think it will, and
I think our documentary is very lazy, for it is
always what I'm the most interested in when I'm telling
stories is having the victim really be at the forefront
of the story.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
In a sky.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's really a huge fat to get Sharon to speak
because it's so painful for her even now to talk
about Lacey going.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Missing and what happened.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
And I want to bring it back to what we
just played from the upcoming Netflix documentary which is called
American Murder Lacey Paterson Sky because I'm about to go
to a veteran trial lawyer who will disagree with me,
Richard Herman. But I remember when my son, and it
(06:11):
was just for a few moments, we were in this
giant baby superstore. He was about too It's got a
twin sister, Lucy, and I was way down on a
shelf from floor to ceiling looking for organic sunscreen.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Don't even ask, but I stood up.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
I said, well they don't have it, and I turned
around and there was Lucy.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I know John David.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
I did not call my husband and say John David's missing.
I started screaming to the top of the lungs my
son's gone, and running through the stores. Hu's like a
warehouse with Lucy under my arm like a football, screaming
his name.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
He's gone right there.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
You capsulize it, Sky, who says Lacy's missing. Missing is
what you determine after all effort are exhausted, then she's missing.
You start with saying, hey, have you say Lacey.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
That's how you start. Yeah, it's true.
Speaker 6 (07:07):
I mean, like I understand maybe that there was some
super weird behavior from Scott Peterson. But I think even
beyond the strange behavior that Scott exhibits, when you really
look at the evidence, to me, it sort of stacks
up and says one thing, and that's what the jury
decided on twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
When you say you look at the evidence and it
stacks up and says one thing, which evidence particularly speaks
to you, Scott.
Speaker 6 (07:32):
Look, it's circumstantial, let's be real, but it is a
big stack of circumstantial evidence. What speaks to me the
most are, honestly, the conversations he had with Amber Fry,
the woman that he was in a relationship with while
he was still married, while Lacy was still alive, and
he talks about the end of his relationship, the end
of Lacey, the end of his wife. Before Lacey's goes
(07:56):
missing on December ninth, he talks about his marriage being over,
that his wife is dead. So he's sort of projecting
in a way, and that to me, and I believe
that to the jury members, at least the ones that
we spoke to, that was really the tipping point for
them to go. This was premeditated. This is something that
Scott was planned.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Joining me high profile trial lawyer Richard Herman defense attorney
joining us out of Vegas but practices all over the country,
and Richard Bheerman dot com Richard go ahead. Second verse,
same as the first hit me.
Speaker 7 (08:31):
The sky is right. The case is completely circumstantial and
circumstantial evens is strong. However, there's no murder weapon, there
are no witnesses, there's no determination of cause, time and
day to death. We have a trial judge who completely
screwed up and sentencing during the penalty phase, and therefore
the death penalty was reversed taken off. These are errors
(08:53):
in the case. Nancy. We want the search or truth.
That's what you want. That's what we all want. And
the defense is going to do everything they can to
show how the Medestinal police was horrible, how they did
not do a proper investigation here, how it means and
evidence is missing, which missing.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
They did an exhaustive investigation. And let me start off
with what Sky just played for us. Day one moment,
one minute one. Scott Peterson is lying. He lied to
Amber Fry.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
What is he? Clairvoyant?
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Herman? He says to his mistress, Oh, this is my
first Christmas without my wife. She's dead, and then a
few weeks later, guess what, she was dead and he
had his first Christmas without his wife. You really want
me to think somebody else engineered that?
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Seriously?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
I mean really, just take off your hat as defense
attorney and be straight, just this one time. That's bs
He predicted it. Two weeks later it came true. Joining
me and Hendricks, investigative journalist and author of Down the Hill,
My Descent into the double murder in Delphi, Susan and
(10:07):
I covered the Peterson trial together.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
Day after day after day.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Susan Hendricks the reports that Lacy Peterson was walking her dog.
We have been over and over and over those reports.
Those witnesses may have seen Lacy Peterson walking her dog
on a different day, at a different time. I have
(10:32):
heard about the dog walking ad nauseum, and it.
Speaker 8 (10:37):
Was brought up in the original trial, I mean Nancy
in the original trial, and I remember watching you and
you covering this. I feel like, although circumstantial, everything came
together in terms of what Scott did in the days
leading up to this, and what stands out to me
the most would be the boat that apparently no one
(10:58):
knew that he owned, and of course the interviews that
he did at the time, that raspy voice in a
whisper with no tears, talking really low and calmly about Lacey.
But there are people, groups of people on Twitter now
known as x that believe he is innocent, including his
sister in law, who, by the way, became a lawyer
(11:20):
to prove this. But I think you're right. The first
verdict that came back was the right one for Scott.
It'll be interesting to hear him speak, but I will
say I'm looking forward to the Netflix documentary to hear
more about Lacey and her family.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, back to the evidence at trial, and I'm going
to remind everybody, and I'm sure Sky Vorgman found this
as she was creating this incredible documentary. It's airing on Netflix.
American Murder Lacy Peterson. The testimony from those that knew
Lacy the best before she was murdered states that she
can no longer walk the dog as she had done.
(11:58):
It was time for her to give She was not
out walking her dog. That's not what happened now, Sky.
It's being argued that those witnesses that think they saw
her walking the dog after she'd already been kidnapped, they
have been interviewed.
Speaker 6 (12:19):
They have been interviewed. They were interviewed at the time
they were interviewed before the trial by Modesto PD, And
what Modesto PD continues to say is that nobody could
positively identify a person walking a dog as Lacy Peterson.
They may have seen a pregnant woman walking Golden retriever,
(12:39):
they may have seen a.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
Non pregnant woman walking a different dog.
Speaker 6 (12:43):
They may have seen a woman in a white top
and black pants walking, But nobody that knew Lacey, that
knew who she was, could say I saw Lazy Peterson
walking Mackenzie at whatever time in the afternoon. That's what
Modesto Police says. There are police records to back it up.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
This was not somebody who was waiting for his wife
to come back.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
Contacted by telephone, Scott Peterson said, quote, I hope their
efforts helped find my wife and kid. Her father told
NBC News quote, I'm glad they are looking in the
right direction.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
I know he did it.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
At this point of the investigation, we think we know
what's going on, but we can't prove it yet. He's
predicting his wife is missing. Two weeks before she's missing.
Maybe he made five anchors and we can only find one.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Her hair is wrapped.
Speaker 9 (13:38):
Up in a pair of needlenosed pliers in his boat
that nobody knows about. We are feeling we have enough,
let's take him down, but we couldn't find the body.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We had a list of circumstantial evidence pointing at Scott,
but the DA in Stanslaw County, he told us privately, said,
you know, bring me a body or you don't have
a filing.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
You're hearing just a tiny tidbit from American murder Lacy
Peterson airing on Netflix, And what a minage that was
of evidence that later came out at trial day one,
Lacey's dad says, I know he did it. They knew
(14:23):
on day one, but the prosecutor there in Stanislaus County said,
not going forward without a body, and can I remind
everyone how day after day after day, Scott Peterson was
tracked by GPS tracker going out to the edge of
San Francisco Bay looking out at the.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Water where she then washed ashore.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
First came a little baby's body, and then came Lacy.
What about that Richard Herman, that doesn't speak to you?
That out of all the places Scott Peterson could have
been looking for his missing wife, he happened to hone
in on the body of water where she was ultimately found.
Speaker 10 (15:08):
Which speaks to me more is the DNA evidence on
the duct tape and other items that the Innocent Project
of California finally is getting access to to run tests
on because they believe there are other persons attached to that,
to that document, to those to that duct tape. Can
you imagine if they were Can.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
You answer the question, the question I asked you about
Scott Peterson repeatedly going and gazing out at the San
Francisco Bay, the body of water where Lacey and Connor
were found, and you.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Won't answer it.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Out of all the places on earth he could go
look for his wife, he goes there where she was,
where her body had been thrown.
Speaker 10 (15:54):
Yeah, I know you want me to answer that. I
don't want to answer that. I'm to look at other.
Speaker 11 (15:57):
Items here, I bet.
Speaker 10 (15:58):
I mean that's not good, that's not good. But there
are other items that could exonerate him. And every item
is going to get turned over, piece by piece by piece.
Man's liberties at stake, and they have every right to
do that, and you, as a former decorative prosecutor, you
want the search for the truth, and we'd let it
get to the bottom line of everything. And at the
(16:18):
end of the day, if the evidence is not there,
or the DNA evidence doesn't show anything, then this condition
is going to stand.
Speaker 7 (16:25):
Twenty two years already he's in prison.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
See, you don't want to talk about the hard evidence.
You don't want to talk about And let me remind everybody,
as sky Borgman stated and Richard Herman has stated in
the past, not today. Of course, he was not going
to mention that unless I pull it out of him.
But I'm not a DDS, I'm a JdE. I can't
pull teeth. But Richard Herman knows as well as all
practicing lawyers that the black and white letter of the
(16:49):
lawyer law is circumstantial evidence is as powerful and probative
as direct evidence, such as an eyewitness or DNA or
a fingerp Circumstantial evidence under the law is given the
same way if a jury so decides as direct evidence.
Speaking of the so called DNA evidence on a duct
(17:13):
tape to which Richard Herrman is referring, listen.
Speaker 11 (17:17):
In an attempt to get a new trial, Scott Peterson's
team sought to have DNA testing done on over a
dozen pieces of evidence. After presenting their case, the judge
ruled that a single fifteen point five inch long piece
of duct tape that was found on Lacy Peterson's pants
at the time of her autopsy will be tested for DNA.
(17:38):
All the other evidence that Peterson's lawyers were asking to
have new DNA tests on were denied.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Okay to Susan Hendricks is joining US investigative journalist who
was on the case from the very beginning.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Scott Peterson, who is somehow.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Mashed at Wiggles's Way Off Death Row and the double
murder of Lacy and Connor, is now saying a burned
out mattress and what he thinks is going to be
DNA on a piece of duct tape will prove he's innocent.
Speaker 1 (18:08):
Tell me about the duct tape, Susan.
Speaker 8 (18:10):
Yeah, I believe we will find that out because the
judge ruled that that piece of evidence could be retested
that was found on a pair of pants with Lacey's
remain So I believe that's in September that we shall
see that what will be on that duct tape and
like you said, Nancy, if it is something that will
free Scott Peterson, if he's not the person, that's what
(18:32):
everyone would want. And we've been talking and I see
pictures of Lacey on Loopierre and I remember speaking with
Fred Goldman years ago and he said, that's the most difficult.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
They will always.
Speaker 8 (18:43):
Remain that age. And I can't imagine for Sharon what
she has to see and continues to go through. You
remember seeing her in that yellow in the courtroom and Connor,
her grandson, being buried in the arms of Lacey. The wrenching,
heartbreaking situation that she is still in twenty plus years later.
(19:05):
But again, Connor, her grandson, would have been what mid
twenties and Lacey a lot older, But she is stuck
in that moment and those are the memories that her
family has.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Joining me is a renowned pathologist, doctor Eric Easen, Doctor Ason,
thank you for being with us. The state of Lacey's
body when she was discovered, to my understanding, is that
she was basically skeletonized. Her pants, her maternity pants were
(19:38):
still loosely I think around the lower part of her skeleton.
Now there is a move a foot and it has
been granted by the judge for DNA testing to be
performed on duct tape found on those pants. Now, what
(19:58):
does that tell me? That Lacey was duct tape and
likely weighted down when she was killed. Baby Connor, however,
was almost pristine. His little body had been protected by
the thick uterine lining and wall of muscle. So when
that uterus finally decomposed, he basically floated out of her
(20:24):
stomach and washed ashore. The person that found baby Connor
said he looked like a little baby doll.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
Not so for Lacey.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
Explain to me what happened to Lacey's body. This is
the piece of duct tape the defense wants tested attached
to those maternity pants.
Speaker 12 (20:47):
So what happened to the body is the death occurred,
and it sounds like the body was placed into the water,
and over time, the body is going to start to decompose,
and that's going to occur from two different processes. And
so internally, when death occurs, the enzymes inside the body
will start to auto digest the tissue and that's combined
(21:07):
with bacteria and other animals that are going to predate
on the body and cause further decomposition. And so you're
going to end up over time, ending up with a skeleton.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
She's been gone almost as long as she was here.
I just wanted to be remembered as a person and
not as a victim of murder.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
She was alive, She's still lived to all of us.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I see dragonflies and I think of her this time
of the year. As a matter of fact, her legacies
is that she was a loving person. She left her husband.
She trusted her husband, and he betrayed her. He betrayed her,
and he betrayed everybody else. His family, our family, everybody
turned out.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
To veterans law. You're Richard Herman joining me out in Vegas.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Scott Peterson quote speaks out, Really shouldn't he have done
that at the time of the trial. He's not going
to get cross examined, he's not going to get tested.
He's going to say whatever a fluffy piece of bs
he wants to say.
Speaker 10 (22:15):
Yeah. I think it's pretty dangerous for him to be
speaking out right now on any TV series. This is
what's going to get This could seal it for him
because nothing good is going to come from what he's
going to say in this documentary. Nothing good he can't
exonerate himself. Nobody believes him. He has no credibility personally,
so they have to get the evidence elsewhere. But him
(22:36):
speaking out, I think that's a very bad move. I
can't believe his defense counsel is letting him do it.
I wouldn't let a client do it. And it's just
it's no good. It's fraught with danger and fitthballs, and
a good interviewer probably bury him.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
So a good.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
Interviewer, Richard Herman, Yes, if you or I were cross
examining him, he'd be limping out of that courtroom. But
instead this is a fluff piece, unlike what we're hearing
and American Murder Lacy Peterson focusing on Lacey Sky Boardman
is with us and she is the director of American
(23:15):
Murder Lacy Peterson Sky. I want to bring everybody's attention
back to what happened then, Not my opinion, not Richard
Herman's opinion of innocence, not what's going to be on
a special or a documentary that's going to occur on Netflix,
but the actual evidence. I want you to listen along
(23:36):
with me in the panel to Ron Grantsky's nine to
one one call listen.
Speaker 7 (23:44):
Yes, my fellow, low call saying, well morning, my daughter has.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
Been listing this morning.
Speaker 7 (23:54):
You have done for a walk in the cart from here.
God came home with.
Speaker 6 (23:59):
Came.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
I forgot your daughter right way, Peter, your stepdaughter lay.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Peter, thank e r F right p e r f
l if you got the Senecasian.
Speaker 7 (24:13):
She's forty, she's pack.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Why can you hear you the happening and come back
that we don't know.
Speaker 7 (24:21):
We just got a call from our son in law.
Get he left your point at night the play off
about a half hour ago.
Speaker 13 (24:29):
Nowhere around anything.
Speaker 12 (24:30):
He would come up to the dog.
Speaker 14 (24:31):
Way walked it in here in that party he said.
Speaker 13 (24:37):
Pardon pregnant.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Watery okay, okay, okay, thanks all right, skyboardman. Let me
understand something and then I don't want call. Peterson tells
his father in law, at least his dad he went
playing golf.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Crazy me, I thought he said he went fishing.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
That's one of the intric interesting things about this too,
is this fishing or golf story that Scott put out there.
From my understanding, he told he told ron Gramski that
he went golfing, and he told one other neighbor that
he went golfing. Everybody else he told he went fishing.
I mean, I've tried to figure out the psychology behind that.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
If it was just saink, I know the psychology. You
probably remember when I just told you the story about
when my son went missing in the Baby's er Us superstore. Yeah,
that story has never never changed. Has it changed, Shackie.
I've been telling it since he was almost two years old.
He's sixteen. Now, Why, because that's what happened. I haven't
changed it too. I was waltzing through sax Fifth Avenue. No,
(25:44):
I haven't said I was jogging. I haven't changed a
story that we were out in a park. Why because
that's not true. I think I know why he changed
his story, And I'm going to get.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
This from Susan Hendricks.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Susan Hendricks, joining US investigative journalist and author, covered the case.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Isn't it true that he changed his story?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Scott Peterson changed his story from golfing to fishing at
the San Francisco Bay, the marina where Lacey's body turned up,
after it came out that the guy collecting tickets or
letting people in and out of the parking area at
the marina remembered him.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
So he was busted.
Speaker 8 (26:29):
He really was, and he had an explanation at the
time for anything that came his way, saying, well, the
weather in a whisper really wasn't good for golfing, so
you take a boat that no one knows you own
and go out on a boat when the weather's bad.
And I remember on December eighth, which screams premeditation to me,
he googled the tide, the bay tide for that time.
(26:51):
So I believe that Amber Fry gave him a motive
to do what he did, and he was able to
change the story from golfing to in his boat. You're
right now, see when he was busted, when he was caught.
And it doesn't surprise me that this narcissistic psychopath, in
my opinion, wants to speak out now because he believes
that he's charming enough to do so, and that what
(27:12):
he says may charm those who believe he is guilty.
Speaker 15 (27:16):
We'd like to thank all of you for being here
and helping us is trying to find our daughter. I
would just like to send a message out there that
whoever has her, please please please let her go bring
her back.
Speaker 12 (27:32):
So much.
Speaker 4 (27:34):
What a bock.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Please close our backs.
Speaker 15 (27:43):
We want her and our grandson home safely and immediately,
so please bring her back to us.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
That is painful to watch. That is Sharon, that Slicy's
mom and Ron Grantsky dad, her stepdad, begging for her
safe return with my sky boardman Director of American Murder,
Lacey Paterson Sky You know, I remember that moment, and
(28:13):
even now when I see Sharon speaking in your special,
it seems like all that is still just just below
the surface.
Speaker 6 (28:24):
It is. I mean, I don't know if anybody could
ever recover from the loss of a child. I know
Sharon moves on, she lives her life, it doesn't consume her,
but she misses Lacey every day and she loves Lacey
every day. And it's a terrible tragedy. And I think
with all of the appeals, look, Scott Peterson and the
team behind him have been appealing for the last twenty years.
(28:46):
This hasn't it hasn't gone away. Scott has been there
presently and Sharon has to be on the receiving end
of that and she hears what's happening. And now with
this new DNA evidence, that they've put forward. It's hard
for her, it's hard for the entire family.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Speaking of Scott Peterson, take a listen to face to
face with Scott Peterson. A reminder he had a chance
to say on this in front of a jury, but
he knew he would be cross examined.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Listen, thanks for talking with me today.
Speaker 3 (29:27):
He didn't want to be a dad, didn't want to
pay childson board, didn't want to space spousal and this
is the way he thought about getting out of it.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I believe my brother in law, Scott has been wrongfully
convicted of that murder. Okay, what about a burned out,
formerly bloody mattress. Peterson says, we'll exonerate him. To Susan Hendricks,
investigative journalist, what's he talking about.
Speaker 8 (29:55):
Yeah, there were two people arrested, though connected to I
believe it was a burglary or robbery in the area
during that same time period. But it doesn't mean, Nancy,
that two bad things couldn't have happened during the same time.
And I believe those involved in that have been questioned
and wanted to prove so much so that they were
not involved in the disappearance of Lacey but that tape
(30:20):
on Lacey's remains on her pants and the DNA testing,
will that show anything that will prove that Scott is innocent?
Speaker 1 (30:26):
That is the big question.
Speaker 8 (30:28):
And I heard Skuy say that she's wondering how Lacey died,
and I don't believe will ever hear exactly.
Speaker 15 (30:36):
How she was.
Speaker 8 (30:37):
And I remember through the years hearing her mother say
that's what she wonders the most. How much did my
daughter suffer and what really happened to her? And I
don't see her ever reading the answer.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
To that.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
To doctor Eric Ason, certified forensic pathologist. Doctor Ayson, her
body was essentially skeletonized. How can you ever get a
cod on a skeletonized body?
Speaker 12 (31:14):
Well, part of the problem is that only the torso
was found and the head was never recovered, and so
the best guess that I have is that he was
either a blunt force head trauma or a gunshot wounded
the head, or strangulation or throat slash, something like that.
But if the head is never going to be recovered,
then the cause of death is probably never going to
(31:34):
be found. I definitely know that the torso was found
and there were no gunshot wounds or stab wounds or
rib fractures or anything that would indicate that the trauma
was to the torso, so the cause of death is
still unknown.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Some evidence that Peterson is touting is said to include
a burnt van near the neighborhood, possibly connected to a burglary.
The fire investigator in Modesto at the time investigated the
burned out van. The vehicle was near the neighborhood and
it had a mattress in the back with a brown
(32:10):
stain on it. Some people feared it was human blood. Okay,
I don't know if that will be enough to exonerate
Scott Peterson since it's not connected to Lacy Peterson.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
That's the issue.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Listen to this for me, this elaborate night about her
missing and this tragedy and that and that that this
will be the first holidays without her.
Speaker 6 (32:38):
Amber, God, I don't want to play with you. So
you know that I.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Or missing.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Oh, yes, you said you've lost your wife, obviously.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Without me staying much, but we were, Yes, you did.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
I did lost my what my wife? Where Walmart?
Speaker 1 (32:58):
You lost your wife? Come terminology? She's dead and then
she was. But that's not all.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
Amber Fry, who many people have assailed. It's a perfectly
nice person. Now, mother, I've.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Spoken to her many many times.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
She truly believed she had hit the jackpot, found this
great single guy.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
That's just what Lacey thought. But listen to more. This
is the This is the call that.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Peterson places to Amber during Lacy Peterson's missing vigil.
Speaker 13 (33:31):
Listen ever, ever, every happy here?
Speaker 6 (33:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 15 (33:56):
There?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, I wish you could.
Speaker 13 (33:59):
Gainst I'm on the eye. I think that you're there.
I'm my the idlers getting real.
Speaker 15 (34:08):
God, you.
Speaker 13 (34:15):
Error you're there. I can't hear right now.
Speaker 7 (34:17):
I'll call you on your knear.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
Em Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
The Eiffel Tower, my rear end. The Eiffel Tower. Richard Hermann.
He's calling his lover, claiming he's aid the Eiffel Tower,
and he's making the call during the vigil for his
missing wife.
Speaker 10 (34:49):
That's why you can't put any credibility to things. He's
telling this woman. You just can't. And you know she
a former messuse or whatever she was. She thought she
hit the jackpot with him.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
So you're telling me you can't believe what he says
to his mistress, Then why should I believe what he's
saying now in order to get out.
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Of jail, to save his own skin. Why should I
believe him now?
Speaker 10 (35:12):
Because people say stupid things if they're cheating and they're
not honorable, they don't say the right things. They know
what they're doing is wrong. So you can't take credibility
for anything that he said to her. And here's another thing, Nancy,
if he really didn't want to be married, if he
didn't really want to be in that relationship, he could
have easily got a divorce. He didn't have to kill her.
(35:35):
I mean, come on, that's the extreme.
Speaker 6 (35:37):
No.
Speaker 14 (35:38):
I met Scott Peterson November twentieth, two thousand and two.
I was introduced to him. I was told he was unmarried.
Scott told me he was not married. We did have
a romantic relationship. When I discovered he was involved in
the Lacy Peterson disappearance in the case, contacted the Modesto
(36:01):
Police Department. Although I could have sold or sold the
photos of Scott and I to tabloids, I knew this
was not the right thing to do. For fear of
jeopardizing the case or the police investigation. I will not
comment further.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
While the case is not all about Amberfry. If it
had not been for Amberfry coming forward, I sometimes wonder
if the case would ever have been cracked. Joining me
an all star panel to sky Boardman, the director of
American Murder, Lacy Peterson on Netflix, sky what led you
(36:46):
to take on this endeavor because you know a competing
streamer is going to come out with another special that
is all about but you chose this to be about
the facts of the trial and about Lacey and Sharon.
Speaker 10 (37:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
You know, it's been twenty years since this was really
in the media in a significant way, and I remember
following it. But what was interesting to me is there
were so many things that I either didn't know or
details that I'd forgotten, and so sort of diving back
into it and doing the research, it just became more
and more clear to me what was happening, what was
(37:28):
going on during the time, and the different layers and
intricacies of this trial, but also how it was Really
it's not that much of a head scratcher. You watch
it and you're like, this seems to lead to a
certain point. It's not a mystery, it's not unknown. It's
pretty obvious what happened, and that's really something I got
as I was doing the research for this, and it
(37:50):
got to be very clear that this was a story
about Lacy Peterson, and that the facts that were presented
to a trial twenty years ago, years ago are still
the facts today.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
I just wonder why, sky that so many people want
to latch on to facts that are not true that
were brought up a trial that Jerry heard them. Is
it the sensationalism that someone else murdered Lacey? What is it?
Speaker 6 (38:23):
I think it's sensationalism. I think some of it may
be denial. I think people want to believe in goodness
in people. But I really feel like there's a lot
of misinformation out there as well. You know, as soon
as things started getting on Reddit threads and all of
these different forums, and somebody grabs onto something and it
changes slightly. It's like this telephone game, and it changes
(38:45):
slightly again, and it changes slightly again, and it becomes
the truth without really looking at the actual evidence at
police reports, and so these ideas can sort of start
to really grow into something that isn't truthful at all.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Hard for me to look at Scott Peterson. I'm looking
at him right now, answering softball questions by some producer.
When I look at him, Sky, I think about Lacy
and how our life was cut short, the murder of
a helpless pregnant woman that could barely even go for
(39:22):
a walk, and then Connor, their baby boy. She and
her whole family were so ecstatic about the first baby.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Their world in front of them.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
I'm just and then I look at him. It's never
about Gee. I didn't kill her, so let's find who did.
It's never about that, It's always about him. Never a
mention of wow, if I didn't do it, who did?
Speaker 10 (39:56):
Never?
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Never, Sky. Look if they've come up with theories.
Speaker 6 (39:59):
They've come up with theory about this robbery across the street,
this burglary across the street that happened, and it must
have been these burglars that absconded with her, grabbed her,
through her in a van and took off with her.
But even that, it's just timelines don't match up.
Speaker 1 (40:15):
The color of the van.
Speaker 6 (40:16):
They've got this orange man now that's burnt out, that
was found a mile away. People reported seeing a white
fan in the neighborhood. The timeline of it is completely different.
The burglars, since themselves say that they were there early
morning hours. They couldn't have been there. The times, the dates,
it's all sort of mixed up, and it just doesn't
really lead to any consistency in any.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Kind of story.
Speaker 6 (40:38):
And these burglars were burglars, they're not. I think it's
a big step to go from being a burglar.
Speaker 1 (40:44):
To go to being a man.
Speaker 2 (40:45):
They were a found sky, they were found and questioned
and pollyed.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
Yeah, all I know is this.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Looking at Sharon and Rocha now in your Special American Murder,
Lucy Paterson, I see that her pain has not lessened.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
We wait as justice continues to unfold. Goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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