January 18, 2017 • 23 mins
"Up & Vanished" podcaster Payne Lindsey discusses his latest revelations about the Tara Grinstead case. The Georgia school teacher and former beauty queen disappeared in 2005, leaving a mystery that baffles investigators. It's a case that Nancy Grace has watched closely since soon after Grinstead was reported missing.
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
Tera Gornstead was a thirty year old former beauty queen
and local high school teacher living in the small town
of Oscilla, Georgia. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
When I first started digging around in this case, back
before I even released the first episode of the podcast,
Marie started getting weird messages on Facebook from a fake account.
(00:32):
The Nancy Grace Show aired a series of live interviews.
Nancy interviewed Terra's neighbor, Joe Portier. During the interview, Joe
revealed a very crucial piece of information dates, times, people's names.
I had to know it all. Mind you, I am
not a podcaster and I'm definitely not an investigator, But
I was determined to tell Tara story, and most of all,
(00:53):
I wanted to know what app the toure. She was
the All American beauty queen. She won the title of
Miss tiffton she competed in Georgia. She used her pageant
winnings to fund her education, getting her college degree, than
going on for a master's degree and then taking a
(01:15):
position teaching history at Erwin County High School and the
quiet and rural town of Oscilla, Georgia. Now you would
think that in Oscilla, which is very rural, and what
I mean by that is you're not close to a
big interstate. It's a low population, hence a low crime rate.
(01:37):
What could possibly go wrong? Well, that evening something did
go horribly wrong. After a school picnic, a barbecue of sorts,
Tera Grinstead heads home, not far away at all, just
a matter of miles and she's never seen alive again.
(01:59):
That was in Leave It or Not two thousand five
October twenty two, two thousand five, and Beauty Queen Tara
Grinstead has never been seen again. I was so intrigued
by the story. I traveled to Oscilla to meet with
TERA's mother. I went through her home. For those of
(02:20):
you joining us, let me say welcome to crime stories
with Nancy Grace. Joining me is a man who was very,
very familiar with this story. It's not just a story
for us, it's a case to be solved. And joining
me is Payne Lindsay, who has done his own investigating
on the case. Paine. The day Tara goes missing, let
(02:42):
me say, the night she goes missing. Tell me your
analysis of the timeline. Let's start with that, and then
I'll tell you what I observed in her home. Sure,
So from my knowledge, Tara's day started with helping some
some of her younger students who were in a patch
that day get ready to get their hair and make
up done at her house. So started there in the
(03:05):
morning around lunchtime, and after that she made her way
to the pageant and stayed there tour around seven. Right
where where was the pageant? So the pageant was in Fitzgerald,
which is about fifteen fifteen or so minutes from Oscilla
from her house, so it's one town over, but it's
(03:25):
all part of the same sort of area, same county.
So that evening the pageant girls were attending a pageant
in Fitzgerald, which was about fifteen minutes away, and so
Tara goes to the pageant. Tara leaves the pageant and
around seven, eight fifteen, she arrives at a friend's barbecue,
(03:49):
and it was a small little get together with some
neighbors and some friends, and she stays there. Okay, back
it up right there, Paine. Don't mean to interrupt, but
I've got to I've got to narrow this town here.
So you say a small barbecue, wasn't the principal from
her school there. That's correct. It was her house, it
(04:09):
was it was it was his house at his house.
Now is he married? He is, yes? Does he have children?
Were they there? He does have children. I believe that
they were there. I think there were a lot younger. Okay.
Who else was there beside the principal who was hosting
the event, his wife, possibly his children. Who else was there?
So of the people that I know for sure that
(04:31):
we're there, the only two that I can name was
certainty would be her ex boyfriend, Marcus Harper's parents. They
were there. Right a minute, you said the boyfriend. Now
is this the boyfriend that was former law enforcement? That's correct?
And his parents were there, that's correct. Okay. Was that
not a sticky situation with her and her ex there? Um?
(04:51):
You know, ten years later, eleven years later, you know,
it does seem a little odd. I mean, Marcus Harper,
her ex boyfriend was not here, but her his parents were. Okay,
I thought you said the boyfriend was there? So were there? Okay?
All right? I guarantee you. Now I'm speaking for them
with no knowledge on this anyway, but I guarantee you
(05:14):
she was quote the one that got away, absolutely because
who couldn't help but love Tara Grinstead. You know, I'm
sure his parents must have wanted those two to stay together. Well,
that was not meant to be. Did she break up
with him or did he break up with her? You
know it was It was a weird situation. It was
an on and off thing for for a while. They
(05:35):
were they had a long relationship of about five years. Hey,
no offense, but just answer the question, who broke up
with you? I believe it was. At first it was Tara,
and then they got back together, and then Marcus broke
up with her and sealed it and that was it.
So Tara at that point I wanted to get back
with him. She was rejected, and the tables turned on Tara.
(05:58):
Do you see what I'm saying. I know what you're
telling me is backed up by some of your own investigation,
But I just find it hard to believe that anybody
would break up with Tara Grinstead. She's beautiful, sweet, loving,
a teacher. Everybody loved her. I don't get it, Okay,
but you know what what goes on in the minds
of men. Now you may think that that's irrelevant, but
(06:21):
in my mind, who broke up with who is not
irrelevant and awfully Who says she wanted to get back
with him and she was rejected. Who who told you that? Well,
actually I know that because I have some of her emails,
and um, I mentioned them in the podcast. Actually it's
called Up and Vanish. But um, if you know if
(06:42):
these emails are in fact her writing, which I believe
that they are. Um, she is emailing Marcus Harper's mother
begging for him back. And I think it was just
I think it was more of the idea that she
was rejected for the first time. Yeah, you know that
hurts slutely does the first time you're dumped. But you
know what, looking back, you know there's a country song,
(07:05):
God's greatest gift is unanswered prayers. Okay, so when you
get that first rejection, it really stings. But I'm pretty
sure God has a plan. So he breaks up with
her according to you, and you discuss that on Up
in Vanishes that the name of your podcast. Yes, okay,
so they break up, but it's simmering. It's back and forth,
(07:27):
back and forth. She's at this barbecue, okay, picking up
their pain. So at the barbecue, she's there untill about
eleven o'clock PM, school night. This is on a Saturday night.
This is October, so this is a Saturday night. So
stays at the barbecue till about eleven o'clock PM, leaves
the barbecue and presumably goes home, but she's never seen
(07:50):
again after she leaves the barbecue. How far away did
Tara live from the barbecue? About a two minute drive,
about a seven minute walk, minute drive, seven minute walk.
And she was in her car, wasn't she? That's correct. Now,
there's been a lot of discussion. Was she run off
the road? And again, this is not this is not Miami,
(08:13):
it's not San Francisco, this is not New York, Long Island, Philadelphia, Boston.
There's not a whole lot of high speed freeway chases
in Oscilla. Okay, it's a two lane. However, the problem
with the tu lane is a lot of it is
through densely wooded area. But it's a two where nobody
(08:34):
would see what happened. But her car, as I recall,
was found at her home. Is that right? That's correct?
It was? Now what items of her? So I have
always contended that she made it home that night. It
was a two minute drive, and that's where things went sideways.
Now of her belongings, keys, purse, and cell phone. What
(08:56):
was still in her home? Pain? So inside was herself,
ohone on the charger, but her keys and her purse
were missing. I just don't see her leaving that home
without her cell phone. Yeah don't. I don't either. I
don't see it. If you're gonna bring your person your keys,
you know, that's kind of that's the third thing you
usually grab if you're leaving the house. It sounds to
me and maybe I'm projecting pain. But when I come in,
(09:18):
first of all, the children still my chargers constantly for
their iPads. But I don't know what Santa had in
his mind when he gave them iPads two years ago.
But I would never have condoned that. Now they run
off with them like squirrels with a nut. And when
I come home and look for a charger, forget about it.
But once I go for my my usual um hunt
(09:40):
scavengers hunt, one of the first things I do is
plug everything up so it'll be ready when I need it.
So I just got maybe I'm projecting the idea that
she comes in plugs in herself and she's been gone
all day to the pageant, rehearsal, blah blah blah, the barbecue.
She's been out of the home all day. She comes home,
plugs at in, and then something happens. Now, when I
(10:03):
was in the home, pain and I was there with
her mother, and we went through every room, room by
room with a fine tooth come nothing was out of place. Again,
it was like a dollhouse that somebody had set up.
And I say that only because it was very small,
but it was beautifully decorated and appointed. No, there was
no sign of a struggle. No windows were broken, the
(10:25):
door had been pride open, nothing had been ransacked. Nothing.
So she takes her keys and her purse. She had,
I think, to go with someone that knew her. So
what what do you think happens? Then she's home? Did
you say eleven o'clock? Eleven o'clock, yes, And the next
day would be Sunday. Now she was reported missing on
(10:48):
what day? Monday morning? She didn't show up for school.
She was a teacher, and she no call, no showed,
and her students were worried and they called the police
and they went to her house. Now I'm a little
perplexed by that, because I would have thought she would
have gone missing at church the next day, or that
her parents may have thought it odd that she was
(11:08):
not in touch with them all day Sunday, and that
was the thing. Um. The alarm really wasn't raised until
later on in the afternoon evening time. And so Tara's
mother called a family friend who is a police officer
from Parry to go drive and check on Tara. So
he drove their Sunday night, knocked on her door, no answer,
(11:31):
and put his business card in the door and left
and went back home. Okay, let's go through that again.
So the mother does get concerned on Sunday when she
doesn't hear from Terry, right, and she calls a friend
in law enforcement in nearby Perry, Georgia, which is about
the geographic middle of the state, not not exactly but almost.
(11:53):
So the former law enforcement from Parry drives then to Oscilla.
Did the mother go there for us? I assume that
she did. No, she didn't. She just called um this
man and he went by himself. He goes over and
what does he find? From my knowledge, all he found
was that her car was in the driveway, but Tira
(12:13):
either wasn't in the house. Or she wasn't coming to
the door, and he left his business card wedged in
the front door to let him know, to let her
know that he was there, and then he left and
went home. Okay, so he goes, why does she call him?
Who is he to this scenario? You know, if he
used to date Tara back in high school. I believe
they had some sort of dating relationship, but he was
(12:35):
mainly just a family friend and somebody that her mother trusted,
So that's why she called him. If he comes over,
he checks her home again, what time did the mother
call him? This would be around I believe ten thirty
eleven o'clock at night. So this man didn't get to
her house until around midnight Sunday night, Monday morning, So
(12:56):
at that point she still wasn't called in missing, correct,
that's correct. The mother may have thought, Okay, she's out
for a night and didn't tell me. I'm not gonna
embarrass her. I'm not going to make a big deal
out of it. And so we get to Monday morning.
Then what happens? So Monday morning she doesn't show up
for school. Um students and teachers are worried, so the
(13:16):
local police is called and they go to terrace house
and the next door neighbor actually had a key to
the house and he let the police officers in and
they found the business card, and they also found a
latex glove in the front yard just to stone throw
away from her front door. Um, just actually just a
(13:36):
few feet. Everyone. Payne's podcast is up and vanished and
it's dedicated to the disappearance of Tera Grinstead. I'm just
telling you, by the looks of the inside of her home,
which was immaculate, and the inside of her car spotless,
there's no way she would have allowed any kind of trash,
(13:59):
including this late ex glove lay right by our front
porch in the yard. No way. So I'm telling you
that had to have been dropped during the kidnap. Okay,
it had to be. So what else do we know?
So she's reported missing Monday at what time around eight
thirty when she didn't show up for school in the morning. Okay,
(14:21):
what else do we know about the crime scene? So
there's very little evidence really, you know, like you said,
the house was pretty much immaculate. There wasn't really any
signs of a struggle. You just had this random latex glove,
Her keys and her person are missing. Um, you know, interestingly,
her front door was was locked shut and her car
(14:42):
door was found unlocked. So somebody either Terry either walked
outside of her house willingly and locked her door, or
a kidnapper locked the door or came back and dropped
her cell phone off or something like that and locked
the door. Then so local pol he's immediately called the
g b I feeling that something was very wrong. She
(15:04):
didn't just take off for a long weekend. Also, it's
a very small community, so word traveled quickly that she
was gone about I guess it was fab two thousand nine,
a video surfaced on the Internet featuring a self proclaimed
(15:24):
serial killer called the Catch Me Killer, and he suggested
that he was responsible for her disappearance. What became of that?
We're talking about twenty seven year old Andrew Haley? What
was that all about? So at first it was pretty alarming,
and you know it was the family was notified and
the gb I got right on it and they took
it very seriously. But after some further investigation, they traced
(15:47):
the IP address and found out that it was just
a man playing a prank. It was some sort of
sick hoax. That he was playing, and he was eventually
charged with that and served time in prison for that.
Let's talk about the latex glove. I'm sure that it
was tested at the time, but when I say at
the time, I'm talking about two thousand and five. Since then,
(16:10):
there have been major developments in touch DNA, in mitochondrial DNA,
and why filer DNA, which wi filer probably wouldn't apply
to this because wi filer is used to identify male
DNA in a c of female DNA, but hey, I'm
just a trial lawyer. It may a scientist would have
(16:32):
to weigh in on that. My point is so many
developments have been made in DNA and forensics. I'm just
wondering if the GBI has retested it, what do we
know about potential persons of interest? And everybody's submit to
questioning polygraphs DNA tests, what do we know paying There
(16:53):
were several polygraph tests and the g b I also
claims to have swabbed over two hundred different people in
this case for DNA, and there hasn't been a single
match on the glove. M Marcus Harper, the ex boyfriend
of Tiara, did submit a polygraph test, but it was
a private polygraph test, and the g b I does
(17:14):
not accept those. Well, of course they don't, because here's
the thinking about why law enforcement doesn't take private polly's.
Number one, you don't know the conditions under which the
polly was administered. You're not really sure of the questions.
For instance, if you ask the question did you see
the latest Harry Potter? That really has nothing to do
(17:36):
with it, and the person is not going to get
tripped up on the answer, they'll tell a truthfully answer.
You've got to know what the questions are for all,
I know, in a in a private polly, you could
have the answers written out, the person could just read them. Sure,
you know, you don't know what's going on in a
private polly. You don't know if the person took a
stative beforehand to loose alleviate rapid heart rate, no idea.
(18:00):
That's why they are largely discounted. Now, what can you
tell me about people that did or did not take
a voluntary DNA test? And now, that is simply an
oral swab. It's like getting a Q tip and running
it alongside the inside of your your cheek. That's all
that is. It's no big deal. For the most part,
(18:20):
pretty much everybody person of interest wise and close to
the case did submit a DNA sample. And the tough
part about this is that in in Georgia, the closed
records law prevents me or you of digging into their
files and seeing who exactly these people really are. So
I'm only I only know this from people that I've
(18:40):
interviewed and talked to personally, who have told me, yes,
I have submitted a DNA sample, or no I have not.
Now as anyone told you they did not, or they
refused to take it. Yes, So of everyone that I've
talked to, the only person that I know for sure
didn't submit a DNA swab, at least voluntarily, would be Troy,
(19:01):
the guy who had the barbecue that night. You mean,
the principle at the high school. That's correct, refused to
take a DNA test. That's what he told me. Why,
I don't really know. I think it was just a
He said he wasn't guilty, and he said that he
didn't feel like he had to do that, and that
was sort of his answer for all I know. Since then,
(19:23):
he may have taken it, But when did he tell
you he did not? Take it recently, that was better.
He told me that recently, uh this year. That would
be back in two thousand five and two thousand six,
whenever the g b I was interviewing him and requesting
that DNA sample. Now, the principle is not a suspect
or a person of interest. I can tell you this,
(19:44):
though paying There's more than one way to skin a
cash all right. You know, there have been a lot
of incidents where police get d NA off a star,
from cup, off a drinking glass, from a hair brush,
from actually a pizza crust. They have successfully taken DNA
from a pizza crust. Oh, yes they have. It wasn't
(20:06):
the easiest thing to do to set up the whole
thing and maintain a proper chain of custody of the
pizza crust, but it's been done. So people don't have
to volunteer to give a DNA sample. You can get
it in many many ways. Um Hence you look out
your backyard and say the FBI digging through your trash. Okay,
that's one way to get it. So for all I know,
(20:27):
they've got is a DNA, whether he's submitted to it
or not. Where does the case stand now? Pain. So
for the g B I, they seem pretty bent on
the idea that the glove is without a doubt linked
to terrorist, kidnapper and or killer, and they believe that
one day they'll get a match and that will solve
(20:48):
this case. I don't feel that way. Um. I feel
that the the glove itself could in fact be a plant,
or the DNA on the glove could just be a
a person from a factory or just you know, a manufacturer,
and that's why it doesn't match any person in this case.
I think the the solving this case hinges on the
(21:10):
idea that somebody does know something, even if it's something
small or minor, and they might not even know that
what they know is very important, but that we need
to discover that and connect all the dots, or collect
the dots and then connect the dots. And that's what
we're trying to do right now. Paying do you really
believe Okay, now, two things. Number One, when you say
(21:32):
d n A at the manufacturing plant where the latex
glove was made, that's entirely possible because I've relayed to
you the story about John Benet and her underwear and
the d n A on her underwear that matches nobody,
They detect us. I've been told in that case actually
went and bought girls underwear at a department store and
(21:53):
there was DNA on it already, which means that you know,
that's got to be from a plant where someone touched it,
handled it in some way. No one has seen Tara
Grinstead or heard from her since Saturday, October two thousand five.
(22:13):
A missing person's report was made October twenty four, two
thousand five, eight fifty a m two Oscilla Police Department
by neighbors. Tara had not shown up from work that morning.
Her parents could not reach her. The last known contact
with her was Saturday night, around eleven pm. There is
no known description of the clothing she was wearing when
(22:35):
she disappeared. Her home lot or car parked and unlocked,
missing her purse and keys. If you have information on
Tara Grinstead, contact the g b I at four seven,
eight nine, eight seven four or five four five Oscilla
Police to to nine for six eight seven four nine four,
(22:59):
repeat two two nine four six eight seven four nine
four or toll free one eight hundred five nine seven
tips one eight hundred five nine seven eight four seven
seven or go to tips at find Terra dot com.
(23:19):
You can stay anonymous. Pain. I want to thank you
for being with us, and more importantly, I want to
thank you all for listening. If any of you can
help solve the mystery of missing Terra Grin instead, please
call those numbers. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Tera Gornstead was a thirty year old former beauty queen
and local high school teacher living in the small town
of Oscilla, Georgia. This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
When I first started digging around in this case, back
before I even released the first episode of the podcast,
Marie started getting weird messages on Facebook from a fake account.
(00:32):
The Nancy Grace Show aired a series of live interviews.
Nancy interviewed Terra's neighbor, Joe Portier. During the interview, Joe
revealed a very crucial piece of information dates, times, people's names.
I had to know it all. Mind you, I am
not a podcaster and I'm definitely not an investigator, But
I was determined to tell Tara story, and most of all,
(00:53):
I wanted to know what app the toure. She was
the All American beauty queen. She won the title of
Miss tiffton she competed in Georgia. She used her pageant
winnings to fund her education, getting her college degree, than
going on for a master's degree and then taking a
(01:15):
position teaching history at Erwin County High School and the
quiet and rural town of Oscilla, Georgia. Now you would
think that in Oscilla, which is very rural, and what
I mean by that is you're not close to a
big interstate. It's a low population, hence a low crime rate.
(01:37):
What could possibly go wrong? Well, that evening something did
go horribly wrong. After a school picnic, a barbecue of sorts,
Tera Grinstead heads home, not far away at all, just
a matter of miles and she's never seen alive again.
(01:59):
That was in Leave It or Not two thousand five
October twenty two, two thousand five, and Beauty Queen Tara
Grinstead has never been seen again. I was so intrigued
by the story. I traveled to Oscilla to meet with
TERA's mother. I went through her home. For those of
(02:20):
you joining us, let me say welcome to crime stories
with Nancy Grace. Joining me is a man who was very,
very familiar with this story. It's not just a story
for us, it's a case to be solved. And joining
me is Payne Lindsay, who has done his own investigating
on the case. Paine. The day Tara goes missing, let
(02:42):
me say, the night she goes missing. Tell me your
analysis of the timeline. Let's start with that, and then
I'll tell you what I observed in her home. Sure,
So from my knowledge, Tara's day started with helping some
some of her younger students who were in a patch
that day get ready to get their hair and make
up done at her house. So started there in the
(03:05):
morning around lunchtime, and after that she made her way
to the pageant and stayed there tour around seven. Right
where where was the pageant? So the pageant was in Fitzgerald,
which is about fifteen fifteen or so minutes from Oscilla
from her house, so it's one town over, but it's
(03:25):
all part of the same sort of area, same county.
So that evening the pageant girls were attending a pageant
in Fitzgerald, which was about fifteen minutes away, and so
Tara goes to the pageant. Tara leaves the pageant and
around seven, eight fifteen, she arrives at a friend's barbecue,
(03:49):
and it was a small little get together with some
neighbors and some friends, and she stays there. Okay, back
it up right there, Paine. Don't mean to interrupt, but
I've got to I've got to narrow this town here.
So you say a small barbecue, wasn't the principal from
her school there. That's correct. It was her house, it
(04:09):
was it was it was his house at his house.
Now is he married? He is, yes? Does he have children?
Were they there? He does have children. I believe that
they were there. I think there were a lot younger. Okay.
Who else was there beside the principal who was hosting
the event, his wife, possibly his children. Who else was there?
So of the people that I know for sure that
(04:31):
we're there, the only two that I can name was
certainty would be her ex boyfriend, Marcus Harper's parents. They
were there. Right a minute, you said the boyfriend. Now
is this the boyfriend that was former law enforcement? That's correct?
And his parents were there, that's correct. Okay. Was that
not a sticky situation with her and her ex there? Um?
(04:51):
You know, ten years later, eleven years later, you know,
it does seem a little odd. I mean, Marcus Harper,
her ex boyfriend was not here, but her his parents were. Okay,
I thought you said the boyfriend was there? So were there? Okay?
All right? I guarantee you. Now I'm speaking for them
with no knowledge on this anyway, but I guarantee you
(05:14):
she was quote the one that got away, absolutely because
who couldn't help but love Tara Grinstead. You know, I'm
sure his parents must have wanted those two to stay together. Well,
that was not meant to be. Did she break up
with him or did he break up with her? You
know it was It was a weird situation. It was
an on and off thing for for a while. They
(05:35):
were they had a long relationship of about five years. Hey,
no offense, but just answer the question, who broke up
with you? I believe it was. At first it was Tara,
and then they got back together, and then Marcus broke
up with her and sealed it and that was it.
So Tara at that point I wanted to get back
with him. She was rejected, and the tables turned on Tara.
(05:58):
Do you see what I'm saying. I know what you're
telling me is backed up by some of your own investigation,
But I just find it hard to believe that anybody
would break up with Tara Grinstead. She's beautiful, sweet, loving,
a teacher. Everybody loved her. I don't get it, Okay,
but you know what what goes on in the minds
of men. Now you may think that that's irrelevant, but
(06:21):
in my mind, who broke up with who is not
irrelevant and awfully Who says she wanted to get back
with him and she was rejected. Who who told you that? Well,
actually I know that because I have some of her emails,
and um, I mentioned them in the podcast. Actually it's
called Up and Vanish. But um, if you know if
(06:42):
these emails are in fact her writing, which I believe
that they are. Um, she is emailing Marcus Harper's mother
begging for him back. And I think it was just
I think it was more of the idea that she
was rejected for the first time. Yeah, you know that
hurts slutely does the first time you're dumped. But you
know what, looking back, you know there's a country song,
(07:05):
God's greatest gift is unanswered prayers. Okay, so when you
get that first rejection, it really stings. But I'm pretty
sure God has a plan. So he breaks up with
her according to you, and you discuss that on Up
in Vanishes that the name of your podcast. Yes, okay,
so they break up, but it's simmering. It's back and forth,
(07:27):
back and forth. She's at this barbecue, okay, picking up
their pain. So at the barbecue, she's there untill about
eleven o'clock PM, school night. This is on a Saturday night.
This is October, so this is a Saturday night. So
stays at the barbecue till about eleven o'clock PM, leaves
the barbecue and presumably goes home, but she's never seen
(07:50):
again after she leaves the barbecue. How far away did
Tara live from the barbecue? About a two minute drive,
about a seven minute walk, minute drive, seven minute walk.
And she was in her car, wasn't she? That's correct. Now,
there's been a lot of discussion. Was she run off
the road? And again, this is not this is not Miami,
(08:13):
it's not San Francisco, this is not New York, Long Island, Philadelphia, Boston.
There's not a whole lot of high speed freeway chases
in Oscilla. Okay, it's a two lane. However, the problem
with the tu lane is a lot of it is
through densely wooded area. But it's a two where nobody
(08:34):
would see what happened. But her car, as I recall,
was found at her home. Is that right? That's correct?
It was? Now what items of her? So I have
always contended that she made it home that night. It
was a two minute drive, and that's where things went sideways.
Now of her belongings, keys, purse, and cell phone. What
(08:56):
was still in her home? Pain? So inside was herself,
ohone on the charger, but her keys and her purse
were missing. I just don't see her leaving that home
without her cell phone. Yeah don't. I don't either. I
don't see it. If you're gonna bring your person your keys,
you know, that's kind of that's the third thing you
usually grab if you're leaving the house. It sounds to
me and maybe I'm projecting pain. But when I come in,
(09:18):
first of all, the children still my chargers constantly for
their iPads. But I don't know what Santa had in
his mind when he gave them iPads two years ago.
But I would never have condoned that. Now they run
off with them like squirrels with a nut. And when
I come home and look for a charger, forget about it.
But once I go for my my usual um hunt
(09:40):
scavengers hunt, one of the first things I do is
plug everything up so it'll be ready when I need it.
So I just got maybe I'm projecting the idea that
she comes in plugs in herself and she's been gone
all day to the pageant, rehearsal, blah blah blah, the barbecue.
She's been out of the home all day. She comes home,
plugs at in, and then something happens. Now, when I
(10:03):
was in the home, pain and I was there with
her mother, and we went through every room, room by
room with a fine tooth come nothing was out of place. Again,
it was like a dollhouse that somebody had set up.
And I say that only because it was very small,
but it was beautifully decorated and appointed. No, there was
no sign of a struggle. No windows were broken, the
(10:25):
door had been pride open, nothing had been ransacked. Nothing.
So she takes her keys and her purse. She had,
I think, to go with someone that knew her. So
what what do you think happens? Then she's home? Did
you say eleven o'clock? Eleven o'clock, yes, And the next
day would be Sunday. Now she was reported missing on
(10:48):
what day? Monday morning? She didn't show up for school.
She was a teacher, and she no call, no showed,
and her students were worried and they called the police
and they went to her house. Now I'm a little
perplexed by that, because I would have thought she would
have gone missing at church the next day, or that
her parents may have thought it odd that she was
(11:08):
not in touch with them all day Sunday, and that
was the thing. Um. The alarm really wasn't raised until
later on in the afternoon evening time. And so Tara's
mother called a family friend who is a police officer
from Parry to go drive and check on Tara. So
he drove their Sunday night, knocked on her door, no answer,
(11:31):
and put his business card in the door and left
and went back home. Okay, let's go through that again.
So the mother does get concerned on Sunday when she
doesn't hear from Terry, right, and she calls a friend
in law enforcement in nearby Perry, Georgia, which is about
the geographic middle of the state, not not exactly but almost.
(11:53):
So the former law enforcement from Parry drives then to Oscilla.
Did the mother go there for us? I assume that
she did. No, she didn't. She just called um this
man and he went by himself. He goes over and
what does he find? From my knowledge, all he found
was that her car was in the driveway, but Tira
(12:13):
either wasn't in the house. Or she wasn't coming to
the door, and he left his business card wedged in
the front door to let him know, to let her
know that he was there, and then he left and
went home. Okay, so he goes, why does she call him?
Who is he to this scenario? You know, if he
used to date Tara back in high school. I believe
they had some sort of dating relationship, but he was
(12:35):
mainly just a family friend and somebody that her mother trusted,
So that's why she called him. If he comes over,
he checks her home again, what time did the mother
call him? This would be around I believe ten thirty
eleven o'clock at night. So this man didn't get to
her house until around midnight Sunday night, Monday morning, So
(12:56):
at that point she still wasn't called in missing, correct,
that's correct. The mother may have thought, Okay, she's out
for a night and didn't tell me. I'm not gonna
embarrass her. I'm not going to make a big deal
out of it. And so we get to Monday morning.
Then what happens? So Monday morning she doesn't show up
for school. Um students and teachers are worried, so the
(13:16):
local police is called and they go to terrace house
and the next door neighbor actually had a key to
the house and he let the police officers in and
they found the business card, and they also found a
latex glove in the front yard just to stone throw
away from her front door. Um, just actually just a
(13:36):
few feet. Everyone. Payne's podcast is up and vanished and
it's dedicated to the disappearance of Tera Grinstead. I'm just
telling you, by the looks of the inside of her home,
which was immaculate, and the inside of her car spotless,
there's no way she would have allowed any kind of trash,
(13:59):
including this late ex glove lay right by our front
porch in the yard. No way. So I'm telling you
that had to have been dropped during the kidnap. Okay,
it had to be. So what else do we know?
So she's reported missing Monday at what time around eight
thirty when she didn't show up for school in the morning. Okay,
(14:21):
what else do we know about the crime scene? So
there's very little evidence really, you know, like you said,
the house was pretty much immaculate. There wasn't really any
signs of a struggle. You just had this random latex glove,
Her keys and her person are missing. Um, you know, interestingly,
her front door was was locked shut and her car
(14:42):
door was found unlocked. So somebody either Terry either walked
outside of her house willingly and locked her door, or
a kidnapper locked the door or came back and dropped
her cell phone off or something like that and locked
the door. Then so local pol he's immediately called the
g b I feeling that something was very wrong. She
(15:04):
didn't just take off for a long weekend. Also, it's
a very small community, so word traveled quickly that she
was gone about I guess it was fab two thousand nine,
a video surfaced on the Internet featuring a self proclaimed
(15:24):
serial killer called the Catch Me Killer, and he suggested
that he was responsible for her disappearance. What became of that?
We're talking about twenty seven year old Andrew Haley? What
was that all about? So at first it was pretty alarming,
and you know it was the family was notified and
the gb I got right on it and they took
it very seriously. But after some further investigation, they traced
(15:47):
the IP address and found out that it was just
a man playing a prank. It was some sort of
sick hoax. That he was playing, and he was eventually
charged with that and served time in prison for that.
Let's talk about the latex glove. I'm sure that it
was tested at the time, but when I say at
the time, I'm talking about two thousand and five. Since then,
(16:10):
there have been major developments in touch DNA, in mitochondrial DNA,
and why filer DNA, which wi filer probably wouldn't apply
to this because wi filer is used to identify male
DNA in a c of female DNA, but hey, I'm
just a trial lawyer. It may a scientist would have
(16:32):
to weigh in on that. My point is so many
developments have been made in DNA and forensics. I'm just
wondering if the GBI has retested it, what do we
know about potential persons of interest? And everybody's submit to
questioning polygraphs DNA tests, what do we know paying There
(16:53):
were several polygraph tests and the g b I also
claims to have swabbed over two hundred different people in
this case for DNA, and there hasn't been a single
match on the glove. M Marcus Harper, the ex boyfriend
of Tiara, did submit a polygraph test, but it was
a private polygraph test, and the g b I does
(17:14):
not accept those. Well, of course they don't, because here's
the thinking about why law enforcement doesn't take private polly's.
Number one, you don't know the conditions under which the
polly was administered. You're not really sure of the questions.
For instance, if you ask the question did you see
the latest Harry Potter? That really has nothing to do
(17:36):
with it, and the person is not going to get
tripped up on the answer, they'll tell a truthfully answer.
You've got to know what the questions are for all,
I know, in a in a private polly, you could
have the answers written out, the person could just read them. Sure,
you know, you don't know what's going on in a
private polly. You don't know if the person took a
stative beforehand to loose alleviate rapid heart rate, no idea.
(18:00):
That's why they are largely discounted. Now, what can you
tell me about people that did or did not take
a voluntary DNA test? And now, that is simply an
oral swab. It's like getting a Q tip and running
it alongside the inside of your your cheek. That's all
that is. It's no big deal. For the most part,
(18:20):
pretty much everybody person of interest wise and close to
the case did submit a DNA sample. And the tough
part about this is that in in Georgia, the closed
records law prevents me or you of digging into their
files and seeing who exactly these people really are. So
I'm only I only know this from people that I've
(18:40):
interviewed and talked to personally, who have told me, yes,
I have submitted a DNA sample, or no I have not.
Now as anyone told you they did not, or they
refused to take it. Yes, So of everyone that I've
talked to, the only person that I know for sure
didn't submit a DNA swab, at least voluntarily, would be Troy,
(19:01):
the guy who had the barbecue that night. You mean,
the principle at the high school. That's correct, refused to
take a DNA test. That's what he told me. Why,
I don't really know. I think it was just a
He said he wasn't guilty, and he said that he
didn't feel like he had to do that, and that
was sort of his answer for all I know. Since then,
(19:23):
he may have taken it, But when did he tell
you he did not? Take it recently, that was better.
He told me that recently, uh this year. That would
be back in two thousand five and two thousand six,
whenever the g b I was interviewing him and requesting
that DNA sample. Now, the principle is not a suspect
or a person of interest. I can tell you this,
(19:44):
though paying There's more than one way to skin a
cash all right. You know, there have been a lot
of incidents where police get d NA off a star,
from cup, off a drinking glass, from a hair brush,
from actually a pizza crust. They have successfully taken DNA
from a pizza crust. Oh, yes they have. It wasn't
(20:06):
the easiest thing to do to set up the whole
thing and maintain a proper chain of custody of the
pizza crust, but it's been done. So people don't have
to volunteer to give a DNA sample. You can get
it in many many ways. Um Hence you look out
your backyard and say the FBI digging through your trash. Okay,
that's one way to get it. So for all I know,
(20:27):
they've got is a DNA, whether he's submitted to it
or not. Where does the case stand now? Pain. So
for the g B I, they seem pretty bent on
the idea that the glove is without a doubt linked
to terrorist, kidnapper and or killer, and they believe that
one day they'll get a match and that will solve
(20:48):
this case. I don't feel that way. Um. I feel
that the the glove itself could in fact be a plant,
or the DNA on the glove could just be a
a person from a factory or just you know, a manufacturer,
and that's why it doesn't match any person in this case.
I think the the solving this case hinges on the
(21:10):
idea that somebody does know something, even if it's something
small or minor, and they might not even know that
what they know is very important, but that we need
to discover that and connect all the dots, or collect
the dots and then connect the dots. And that's what
we're trying to do right now. Paying do you really
believe Okay, now, two things. Number One, when you say
(21:32):
d n A at the manufacturing plant where the latex
glove was made, that's entirely possible because I've relayed to
you the story about John Benet and her underwear and
the d n A on her underwear that matches nobody,
They detect us. I've been told in that case actually
went and bought girls underwear at a department store and
(21:53):
there was DNA on it already, which means that you know,
that's got to be from a plant where someone touched it,
handled it in some way. No one has seen Tara
Grinstead or heard from her since Saturday, October two thousand five.
(22:13):
A missing person's report was made October twenty four, two
thousand five, eight fifty a m two Oscilla Police Department
by neighbors. Tara had not shown up from work that morning.
Her parents could not reach her. The last known contact
with her was Saturday night, around eleven pm. There is
no known description of the clothing she was wearing when
(22:35):
she disappeared. Her home lot or car parked and unlocked,
missing her purse and keys. If you have information on
Tara Grinstead, contact the g b I at four seven,
eight nine, eight seven four or five four five Oscilla
Police to to nine for six eight seven four nine four,
(22:59):
repeat two two nine four six eight seven four nine
four or toll free one eight hundred five nine seven
tips one eight hundred five nine seven eight four seven
seven or go to tips at find Terra dot com.
(23:19):
You can stay anonymous. Pain. I want to thank you
for being with us, and more importantly, I want to
thank you all for listening. If any of you can
help solve the mystery of missing Terra Grin instead, please
call those numbers. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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