June 26, 2024 • 40 mins
The two suspects in the murder of Jocelyn Nungaray have made their first court appearance.
The 12-year-old girl's family heard in harsh detail what happened to Jocelyn. Prosecutors say she fought like a superhero, fighting with her dying breath, leaving visible marks. Johan Jose Rangel Martinez and Franklin Jose Pena Ramos, tie her hands behind her back, bind her feet, take off her shirt, and abuse her for hours under a bridge in north Houston.
Even though the police and the prosecutor believe Jocelyn was raped before she was strangled, the suspects are not charged with sexual assault as the rape kit results are still pending. The Harris County District Attorney, Kim Ogg, says they believe the evidence is clear that a sexual assault likely took place, but the defendants are not admitting yet.
However, if the lab tests confirm that 12-year-old Jocelyn Nungaray was raped, the capital murder charge can be upgraded to one where they are death penalty eligible.
In a dramatic court scene, a family member of Jocelyn Nungaray shouts "murderer" at Rangel-Martinez, while another shouts in Spanish, "I hope they kill your children."
It has been reported the suspected murderer has two children.
Currently, both Martinez-Rangel and Peña are charged with capital murder, and a judge has set their bond at $10 million.
Joining Nancy Grace Today:
- Michael Ybanez – Former Houston Police Homicide Detective, Licensed Private Investigator
- Dr. Bethany Marshall – Psychoanalyst (Beverly Hills); X: @DrBethanyLive/ Instagram & TikTok: drbethanymarshall; Appearing in “Paris in Love” on Peacock; BOOK: “Deal Breaker: When to work on a relationship and when to walk away”
- Andy Kahan - Director of Victim Services and Advocacy at Crime Stoppers of Houston
- Dr. Kendall Crowns – Chief Medical Examiner Tarrant County (Ft Worth) and Lecturer: University of Texas Austin and Texas Christian University Medical School
- Corley Peel- News Reporter for KPRC2 in Houston; Instagram: @KPRC2Corley, X: @KPRC2Corley, Facebook: @KPRC2CorleyPeel
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This isn't right.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The family a little Joscelyn, just twelve years old, erupts
in open court when they are sitting there hearing the
facts laid out in court that this little Texas girl there, Joscelyn,
is lured under a bridge, stripped bound with her hands
behind her back, sex assaulted and strangled.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I guess they did.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Erupt this, as the prosecutor says, I don't know if
we can seek the death penalty. You can. Good evening,
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thank you for being with us. Slain twelve year old girl,
Joscelyn Nungery's family lashing out in court as the two
men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned. I hope
they kill your children.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I can't imagine the pain, the anger, the hurt that
this family is feeling as we learn the defendants may
not even be exposed to the death penalty. There's not
a chance of the death penalty. What is the family
supposed to think? They erupt in open court as they
(01:23):
find out the horrific details surrounding the death of their girl,
twelve year old Joscelyn.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Listen this victim was found you, bound and without clothing
from the waist down in the water, and we.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Just think that there's a good possibility. We hope that
there's evidence that remains to be tested.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
I'm still fighting for her, and I just remember that
she was a very special little girl that deserves her justice.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I know.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
She's going to make a difference in this world for
all children. And now it's my job to make sure
it continues to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Why is it on the mom Why is it her
job to make sure that there is justice? And I
got to go to this panel with me an all
star panel. But first to Corey eat Peel, investigative reporter
KPRC two in Houston.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Corey, did I just hear.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
The prosecutor, whom I've always respected up until a few
moments ago, state she was found pause unclothed, pause, unclothed,
talk about putting perfume on the pig, airbrushing, whitewashing, unclothed.
I could be in a changing room in Nordstroms and
(02:51):
be unclothed.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
This girl had twelve twelve, had her hands bound.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Behind her, She was forced under a bridge by two guys.
She doesn't know adults, and she was stripped. She was
stripped from the waist down. Her pants were off. I
mean to hear aug say it unclothed.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
Yeah, these details were absolutely heartbreaking hearing in court. And
you know, at this point they were still kind of
skirting around the information on if she was sexually assaulted
or not. They're saying that they're still waiting on test
results to come back to prove that she was in
fact sexually assaulted. But those details absolutely heartbreaking to hear
(03:42):
in court, especially for Johnson's family, and as you can imagine,
emotions were high.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yesterday.
Speaker 7 (03:49):
We heard a family member scream out at one of
the suspects, calling him a murderer and killer, as they
were just in disbelief over this tragic, in her rific
crime could happen to their little girl.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
You're hearing Corey Peel invescadity reporter KPRC two in Houston.
I'm going to go to Andy Kahn, a longtime friend
and colleague, director of Victim Services crime Stoppers in Houston.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What in the world is going on?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Hey, New York, let me see the graphic of how
you can get the death penalty in Texas. Because I'm
pretty sure if you commit an intentional murder, which strangulation
death is. This is a manual strangulation by hands while
and then they name a host of felonies, including kidnapping kidnapping.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Kidnapping does not mean.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I bundle you in a trunk and I drive you
one hundred miles and hold you hostage. Kidnapping can mean
taking you one foot or one inch is called under
the law asportation. If that child is moved even one
inch under the law against her will, that is a
(05:04):
kidnap and therefore qualifies for a death penalty. Andy John,
what is going on in your hometown.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
You have a lot of convoluted laws that were passed
years ago involving capital murder of anyone who murders a child.
And in twenty nineteen they passed a law. Our legislators
passed a law removing the death penalty provision from anyone
who murdered a child from the ages of eleven to
(05:36):
fifteen unless it was done in conjunction of another offense.
I don't think there's any ifens or butts about it.
She was taken against her will, more than likely sexually assaulted.
But let's keep in mind. This is early. I would
it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Andy, I know that your politicians and the Texas ledgislature
had gutted the rules for aggravating circumstances for the death
penalty and many other jurisdictions. When a child under fourteen
fourteen and under is murdered, that automatically qualifies for a
(06:14):
jury to look at the death penalty. Whether they give
it or not, that's on the jury. But forget about
the age requirement. Your legislature, your Texas legislature change the
rule when now the child has to be under ten
for it to automatically apply. That doesn't fit in this
(06:35):
scenario because Jocelyn is twelve.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
However, listen to me.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
There is another condition under your law that your legislature
has managed not to gut yet. That says if the
death occurs the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies
for the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So what's the problem. I don't get it.
Speaker 8 (06:58):
I don't get it either, And my best guess is
this is a slow moving scenario. They want to get
first things done first, and then eventually they'll look at
adding the death penalty. You know there's a reason we
have the death penalty in the state of Texas. We're
known as the death penalty capital of the world. And
if these two defendants don't fit the criteria for the
(07:20):
death penalty, you might as well just gut it all
the way around.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Guys, we are hearing that the death penalty is not
being sought. And I'm not advocating pro or con right now.
I am saying that if this case does not qualify
for the death penalty to be at least presented to
a jury, who will they make the decision?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Not the prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But it's not going to even be given as an
alternative to this jury because neither defendant has confessed to
raping the girl. What what I've got to wait for
them to confess. If I had to wait for every defendant,
every killer, every rapist, every timlester to confess before they
(08:08):
get sentis that's never gonna happen. The Fulton County jail
would still be full of the thousands of people I
prosecuted because nobody is gonna confess. But this is what
they did say. You tell me what you think happened.
Speaker 9 (08:23):
Listen, Johann Jose, Ronyal Martinez and Franklin Jose Panoramos are
both charged with capital and murder. Pain Your Ramos tells
police he tried to convince Ronio Martinez to stop the
attack on Joscelyn, but he refused, telling pag Ramos he
had to finish what he started. Nungary's hands are tied
behind her back, her feet are bound. Ronyo Martinez climbs
on top of Joscelyn, covers her mouth, and strangles her
(08:45):
to death. Roanyo Martinez admits to tying Joscelyn up and
tossing your body in the bayou, but claims he didn't
kill her. Paina Ramos claims he only kissed the twelve
year old and denies any wrongdoing.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Dodger Bethany Marshall. You know I'm a tea titler, but
this is to the bottle. Dr Bethany Marshall with me
whre now it's Psycho Alas joining us out of Beverly
Hills at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, I've had
so many defendants and co defendants who will tell you
(09:16):
the story about what happened their version, but they leave
out the critical moment. For instance, doctor. Bethany and I
were robbing a bank, and I said, don't kill anybody.
Bethany and she went in and we both had guns,
and I turned my head for just a moment and
(09:37):
I heard a gunshot, but I didn't see anything. And
when I turned back around, two bank tellers we're dead
and bleeding out in the floor. That one critical moment
somehow gets fuzzy, and here we see both defendants, one
claiming he quote only kissed twelve year old Jocelyn while
(09:59):
her hands were tied behind her back and her pants
and underwear were stripped off her body, just before one
of them crawled on top of the girl and strangled her, saying, quote,
he had to finish what he started, and all the
other one did was kiss her. Who and the h
eighth double l kisses a twelve year old little girl
(10:23):
tied up under a bridge with their pants.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And underwear stripped off, he's kissing her.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
There's so many things wrong with this narrative, and also
so many tell tell signs that they are lying. First
of all, minimizing by saying I kissed her. Criminals always minimize,
and as you pointed out, being so vague about the
details sometimes they throw in too many details, but most
likely in this case, they're leaving out a lot of
(10:50):
horrific details that are going to come out as this
court case continues, and also minimizing the fact that she
is a twelve year old little girl. And also the
language is so inaccurate. Nancy, let's take out rape, assault,
and kidnap and let's put torture at the top of the.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
List crime stories.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
With Nancy Grace, let me go to another friend and
longtime colleague, doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
That's not easy.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You fight your way to get in medical school, you
fight your way through medical school, you do a residency.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's dog eat dog.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Everybody wants your spot, and he somehow climbs his way
to the top to become the chief medical Examiner in
Arrant County. That's Fort Worth, that's this neck of the woods.
Also lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
Doctor Kendall Crowns, I've prosecuted literally thousands of cases, thousands,
(12:01):
all felonies. When you are prosecuting and you didn't experience this,
you have to be a machine. You cannot think about
the details of the case, or I would crack if
I had to think about it. But as I'm listening
to doctor Bethany talk, I'm wondering, if you go through this,
(12:23):
as you perform autopsies on little girls, little children, to
think about what this girl twelve years old, You know,
my girl, she's about that big, beautiful just like this
little girl to be dragged under a bridge in the
middle of the night, don't you know? She was crying
(12:47):
and begging for them to stop what they were doing,
to yank her pants and underwear off, to tie her,
bind her with her hands behind her back, and one
of them claims I only kissed her. What and with
the marks on her back, this girl was raped. This
(13:13):
girl was tortured. The last thing she saw was the
dark of the night under a bridge where these two guys,
she's adult, males she had never met before, assaulting her.
Then probably the inability to breathe as one of them
(13:35):
crawled on top of her.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And manually strangled the life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Out of her, then leaving her semi naked, throw her
into the water, and video Kim catches them. Doctor Kendall
Crowns just walking away. Why nothing had happened? When you
(14:02):
perform an autopsy. Do you let yourself even think about
these things? Or do you just become a robot and
do it?
Speaker 11 (14:13):
So you can't get emotionally charged when doing your work,
because that's going to cause you to miss things. So
you go through the story the information you have at
the time before the autopsy begins, and then you process
the case and go through it and you don't get
emotionally wrapped up in all the particulars of how horrific
(14:34):
the incident that resulted in this individual's death is, because
if you do, you can't do this job.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Lord under a bridge, a stripped naked to the waste
bound and then assaulted for two hours. New court documents
detail horrific allegations.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Not only do we learn what happened under that bridge
to little Joscelyn, we learn what happened afterward.
Speaker 9 (14:59):
Listen to After Johnslen Nunger's body has found, Police say
Ramos cut off an ankle monitor he was fitted with
when he crossed the border illegally at El Paso on
May twenty eighth. The discarded ankle monitor was found days ago. Ramos,
working in construction, asks his boss for extra cash so
he can skip down, but instead of getting cash, the
boss calls the police and Ramos is arrested straight out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
To Cora Lee Peel, investigative reporter or kp RC two Houston,
I hope what Ogg is saying. I'm just interpreting here
is that when the rape kit comes back and I'm
going to go to you, doctor Kendle Crowns about how
a rape kit is performed and really how long it takes.
(15:40):
It doesn't take this long to get a DNA sample.
It doesn't, So I'm not sure what they're waiting on.
Because if there's DNA from one of the defendants to
show that she was raped because I'd spurned from one defendant,
they're both going to be charged with rape because while
one was raping her, the other one was standing by
(16:02):
what laughing holding her down?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Oh hgl n Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They're both going to be charged with that and both
be death penalty qualified. Corley Peel again, investigative news reporter
kp RC two Houston, where this happened. Let me understand
how these two were caught. I understand we've got surveillance
video and the police did an incredible job of putting
(16:28):
together a montage of the let's see the seven eleven
the seven eleven video surveillance video. You can see as
the surveillance video goes on, you see her walking. The
little boyfriend she's calling on her cell phone reports hearing
two adults in the back. Look at that little thing.
She can't weigh over ninety pounds. If that these two
(16:51):
there are the animals. There they are, And I normally
don't use that phrase, but what they did to this
little girl is like an animal out in the jungle
and they approach her. They approach her, apparently asking for directions.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
She walks along.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
With them because they apparently lived near each other, did
not know each other. They're walking along and the next
thing you know, she's under a bridge bound being raped.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So Corale Peel, how did they get caught?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The incredible surveillance montage that reveals everything I just told you.
You see them taking her under a bridge and then
walking away like okay, that's done. But then in addition
to the montage, witnesses emerge.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
That's right.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
I mean, those photos were essential in this case. As
soon as the men saw their photos being plastered across
the country, all over social media and all the news,
they got scared, so the men Martinez there, he actually
shaved his beard and he apparently prosecutors found on his
(18:09):
phone that he was trying to research ways on how
to lead the country, how to get out. But it's
really interesting because Franklin Pinya, he actually called his boss
asking for help, asking to gather some money together so
he could get away. He told his boss that someone
was killed, he was in an issue that he needed
to get out of.
Speaker 10 (18:29):
The boss thought that was very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Okay, hold on, Corley Peel again. You got me drinking
from the fire hydrant. You know so many facts, and
I'm trying to ride as quickly as i can. Could
you back it up just a little bit and I'll
catch up. I wish I knew shorthand I don't. Okay,
go yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
So basically, long story short, he calls nine one one,
the boss that the construction company calls police, and that's
how police were ultimately able to track down both men
at their apartment complex and take them into custody. And
I talked to prosecutors at that press conference and I said,
you know, was this boss the reason why they were captured?
(19:12):
And they said, that is one of the reasons why,
just because they have received hundreds of tips over that
course of that week while.
Speaker 10 (19:19):
They were on the run.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
But again they got scared after these photos were released
and people were looking for them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And now Coraline Peel from KPRC two is telling us
more that when these photos began to populate on TV,
people were seeing them. Their friends who knew them saw
the TV and they asked the boss. These two defendants
(19:49):
asked their boss. One of them asked for an advance
in money, said somebody had died and they needed.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
To get out of the jurisdiction.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You know, when I see a broadcast on TV or
somebody calls me and gives me a tip about a murder,
I don't try to leave the country.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They did, what about it?
Speaker 12 (20:12):
Those were indicative of guilt, Nancy. These guys knew what
they were in trouble. They knew people were going to
see the advertisement, the warnings on TV, and they knew
that they had to leave the country or leave the
state as soon as possible. They're criminals, They're animals.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That's what they do.
Speaker 12 (20:29):
They run and they fleet.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Joslyn nunger Ay fought back. Prosecutors say, leaving scratches and
byte marks on one of her attackers, still visible at
the time of his arrest.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Bite marks. Let's talk about bite marks.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Joining me, Corley Peel, investigative reporter KPRC two Houston. Corley,
I want to talk about the injuries to not only
the two defendants. Do you know when we first started talking,
almost got sick to my stomach as you were describing everything,
because when I was talking to doctor Kendall Crowns about
(21:08):
letting your mind go to where this was that night
and what the little girl lived through, what Jocelyn lived
through just before her death while her mom is snoozing away,
no idea that anything's happening to her baby. But I
now want to talk about the evidence and get my
(21:28):
mind back in the middle of the.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Road and out of the weeds.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Tell me about the injuries on her and the two defendants.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
Yeah, heartbreaking information that we received in court this week.
Apparently from what we heard from prosecutors that Jostin was
found with cuts on her body and scratches as well
as she was found bound and tied underneath that bridge.
And we also learned that Martinez Renjell he was also
(21:58):
found with bite marks, and scratches on him so when
he was arrested. So very heart wrenching information to hear
from prosecutors as they release that evidence, and especially hard
for her family to hear because she's only twelve years old.
No family should have to hear that a little girl
had to endure that type of horrific murder. I don't
(22:20):
want us to gloss over the truth. And here's the truth.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Two illegal Venezuelan migrants are now accused. I'm murdering our
twelve year old little Houston girl, Andy Kahn. Listen up,
you're next under a bridge. According to prosecutors, they strip
her naked, that's from the waist down, assaulted her for
two hours.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Two hours.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This twelve year old girl was assaulted, assaulted, what does
that mean?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Raped? That's what that means.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And one of them has the audacity to tell me
I just kissed her. You kiss a twelve year old
little girl, tied up her bridge half naked, soulded her
for two hours, allegedly binding her not only by her
hands behind her back during the rape, her feet were
(23:14):
also bound, as doctor Bethny Marshall accurately pointed out, and
her back was covered in cuts.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
What does that tell you, Andy Kahan? Her back was
covered in cuts.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
Nancy, this is a real life Texas chainsaw massacre. What
happened to Joscelyn? The only way I can describe what
happened to her when you ask people, well, what happened exactly,
is if you watch a National Geographic show and you
see what lions do to Gazelle's and that's what these
two lions dier through this poorest child right here. It
(23:55):
is an absolute bloodbath. What happened to her. I've spoken
with Joscelyn's family, I've met them, I've talked with them.
I can't imagine the pain that they're going through. Yet,
at the same time, we're also going to make Joscelyn
Nungary a catalyst for change. I know there's a lot
going on right now, whether they're going to be seeking.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
The death Nady con too soon, too soon to talk
about how this is all somehow going to end up
being good and her rape and murder is going to
be a catalyst for change.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know, I don't normally say this to you, Indicaba,
screw that.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I don't want to hear how somehow we're going to
turn this lemon into lemonade, catalyst for change. B ask
con what are you saying? And I asked you what
these injuries meant? And you skirted it. You did not
answer the question. The question was what do.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
These injuries on her back mean? Do I have to
spell it out for you.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
It means that she was tortured. She was tortured, she
was raped, she was strangled, she was kidnapped, and by God,
the death penalty is going to be sought in this case.
That is no ifans or buts from my perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Doctor Bethany Marshall. You, as I have worked with so
many children and adults that were raped or sodomized as children,
and what the adults tell me is that the worst
thing about it was the feeling of helplessness, powerlessness.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How some of them.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Actually, I didn't know about this phenomenon until an adult
female victim of Chamala's station told me about it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
That she would actually disembody and she.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Could look down at her body as her father was
raping her, and her mother sided with the father and
pretenda she didn't know anything about it went on for years. Okay,
you have to go with me down this dark tunnel,
because I'm going to tell you what happened. This little girl,
(26:12):
while bound with her hands behind her and stripped, was
forced down on the ground and was raped for two hours.
Then one of the finets climbed on top of her
and manually strangled her. And then they throw her body
(26:34):
likely face down into a by you. That's what happened
to this girl. She should be practicing her cello, what
instruments she was playing. She should be enjoying summer, jumping
in the apartment complex pool, playing with her friends, going
to get ice cream, talking to her little BF boyfriend
(26:55):
off the phone. But that's what happened to her. That
is what those injuries tell me. And there's no way
around it. I don't care how much everybody on this
panel wants to skirt away from it. That is what happened.
She was raped in the dirt on the ground under
(27:15):
a bridge by two adult males while her hands were
tied behind her back.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's what happened, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (27:22):
If I could add to that, there was a moment
before all this happened, when these guys asked her for
directions where she felt useful. She wanted to help them,
and then for anyone who's listening, who's ever been in
an accident, and all of a sudden, you know, things
have turned. There was that dawning of realization when they
take her under the bridge, that something really, really bad
(27:44):
is going to happen. They bind her hands and her legs,
and at that point she may not even know what
is about to befall her, but on some levels she
knows she's going to die. They take their pants off.
We're talking about them taking her pants off. Let's think
about two grown men taking their clothing off in front
(28:06):
of a little girl. We don't even know she's ever
seen the naked man before, and all those cuts along
her back. They threw her on the ground. This was
under a bridge. I picture. You know, empty aluminum cans, glass,
you know all the debris we see under kid under bridges.
They threw her on that debris. And as they were
(28:27):
raping her and thrusting themselves into her again and again,
her back was scraping along the ground. They didn't rape
her once twice. These men raped her multiple times, each
one looking on as the other one did it. That
is animalistic behavior. Nancy, do think women would do that
(28:48):
to a little boy? No, It's not just the rape,
it's the cruelty. It's the total lack of regard for
what was happening to her body and Nancy. These guys
I think were drunk and substance abusing sons does not
exonerate them, but it takes it a whole level worse
where they are just treating her like a sack of
potatoes and the control.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Room is reminding me in my ear.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
These two illegal immigrants charged with the murder of a
twelve year old oldle girl under the eyes of Lady
Justice are innocent until proven guilty.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace two suspects.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
One claims he only kissed Joscelyn and tried to stop
the attack as his friend climbed on top of the
little girl strangling her.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Tried to stop the attack. How doesn't make any sense everything?
Why am I trying to apply logic to an illogical situation?
Why am I trying to make sense about what these
two were saying? Because it's all lies, all lies. DNA
doesn't lie, circumstantial evidence does lie. This little girl did
not bind herself at the hands and feet, scratch her
(30:06):
back up on the ground, take off her own pants
and underwear and fling herself into the water. Okay, they
did it. And anything they say is a lie. It's
like the devil. Whatever he says, it's a lie. It
doesn't matter. It's a lie. They're lying.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Now we know in the.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Last hours the family has been subjected to hearing the
facts the way we've been talking about them.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
No mother wants to hear this. I don't even want
to hear.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It about another child, much less this mom hearing it
about her own child. And there was an explosion in
the courtroom, not the first time.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Listen, oldest sister.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Of Aaron Lindsey, Jim, whatever your name is, Satan, I'm mad.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
That's how you act when you are out of control.
I don't want to ever see my mother have to
go through this point again. Never, Jeffrey, I.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Only wish she had gotten her hands around his neck.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And of course we all know about our friend Mark Class.
His daughter Polly was kidnapped during a little spend the
night party at her place in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I don't even say the defendant's name out loud.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
He took Polly, he raped her, he assaulted her, and
he murdered her and in court class, there's Polly Class
lunges for the killer and tries to strangle him right there.
In another case, a martial arts expert molested a little
(32:03):
boy and when he was extradited back to Louisiana and
he came off the plane, the dad shot him in
the head.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Later acquitted.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
But why are people suggesting that the family of Joscelyn
misbehaved in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
They didn't misbehave.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The two defendants misbehaved according to police, to any con
director of victim services, they're in Houston.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Do you blame them?
Speaker 8 (32:33):
No, absolutely not. I mean I've been in the courtrooms
where families have gotten up and have yelled. I've been
in a courtroom where a bailiff whispered to me and said,
I'll left the father of the young girl that was murdered.
If he goes over the rail, I'll give him a
few minutes before I pull him off. No, nobody blames
them for anything that happened. I don't blame them for
(32:54):
unleashing as well. I would probably do the same. This
is the worst possible scenario you can imagine. This family
is undergoing right now. Joscelyn is everybody's daughter. She is
everybody's sister, She is everybody's niece. This is not just
a Houston issue, It's not just a Texas issue. She
has become the national issue for what happens when you murder, rape,
(33:18):
and strangle and kidnap a twelve year old little girl.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You know Andy again, I consider your friend. We've worked
together for many, many years. But does your mouth ever
get tired of just saying the same thing?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Blah Dad.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
She's supposed girl for filling the blank. She's a countless
for change. She represents every girl. Really that one of
these people keep coming into our country and committing.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Murders, and not just them other perps.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You see it over and over, repeat offenders praying on victims, younger,
less cunning, less powerful than they are, walk free, and
then they do it again. A catalyst for change. This
is one in a string of many. Do I have
(34:09):
to name them off? There's Lake and Riley, there's Molly Tibbis,
there's Rachel mourn. He goes on and on for Pete's sake. Man,
second verse, same as the first.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
That's why I'm here to do that, to make sure
that what happened with her at least we can make
the attempt that it doesn't happen to somebody else. That's
the least we can do in her honor and in
her memory. And that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
You know what, Andy Conn, You're right. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You just have to be the target of my anger
and frustration about what happened to this girl. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
how are we going to prove she was raped? How
does it happen? And that medical examiner darnwell being dotting
his eyes and crossing his t's as he or she
(34:59):
performs rape kit.
Speaker 11 (35:01):
So proving a sexual assault, you can look for damage
to the vagina, the anus. Usually it's tearing, contusions or bruises,
abrasions or scratches from the forceful penetration. And then you
can also do a sexual assault kit, also known as
a rape kit, where you collect evidence pubic hairs from
(35:24):
the individual, also any hairs that.
Speaker 8 (35:27):
Are on the body.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
You do DNA swabs of the body as well as
DNA swabs of the vagina, anis, and mouth, and then
those can be tested for DNA of the possible perpetrator.
It can take several weeks for all that to come back.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Though, Doctor Kittel crowns, You and I both know that
it doesn't take several weeks to get DNA.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Why are you saying that.
Speaker 11 (35:51):
Well, it does take several weeks for the testing to
get done. You can't just expect it to happen overnight.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
There's not an immediate DNA test because I've had them
done at the crime lab.
Speaker 11 (36:01):
I mean rapid DNA tests are using.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Is a quick test result?
Speaker 11 (36:05):
Well, you can get quick test results, correct, but you
can't necessarily pinpoint it to the specific individual without doing
all the specific testing.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Well, okay, then your Texas crime lab must work differently
than the one that I use.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because we can get quick test results.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I know they're not as reliable as they wants to
take two weeks, but it's enough for death penalty, indictment,
and one more thing very quickly. Doctor Kendall crowns about
the bite marks in her condition. Tied up, hands and
feet on her back, she managed to bite a defendant.
Is there a chance we could get his DNA out
(36:43):
of her mouth?
Speaker 8 (36:44):
Yes, that is a possibility.
Speaker 11 (36:46):
If she bit hard enough and pulled skin cells off,
it's possible that they could get it from her mouth.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
To Corley p Old kp RC two. What is happening
right now?
Speaker 7 (36:56):
Well, right now both men are in jail with ten
million dollar bonds each. This investigation is ongoing. Prosecutors say
that they're still waiting on test results to prove if
Joson Ungerray was sexually assaulted. So we're still waiting to
see if those charges will be upgraded or if they
(37:17):
will face the death penalty because of right now, based
on the legislature, they're not death penalty eligible, So still
a lot more to uncover in this case for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Michael Levana is the bottom line. They're kicking back having
three hots and a cot.
Speaker 12 (37:32):
The investigators are at the mercy of the legal system.
They have to abide by what the district attorney guidance
that they give them. They honestly do probably want a
fist sexual assault, but they have to wait for the results.
They're at the mercy of the crime left.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Oh, okay, so I guess she had her pants pulled
off and had scratches on her back and one admits
that he was kissing her.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I guess that's not enough for them yet, But I'm telling.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You, well, you can say that and I've tried plenty
of cases with circumstantial evidence and without DNA before the
advent of DNA and all that was a blood type.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Okay, so it can be done.
Speaker 12 (38:13):
It's going to be a circumstantial case because there the
one wants to admit, they minimize their actions.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
To hear Michael Levanas tell it, I've got to wait
on a confession, and that'll be a cold day in
HL before these two confess.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Andy con, what and I just am I the one upside.
Speaker 8 (38:30):
Down here before a Texas jury. I could probably step
outside when they get the case, go to the restroom,
come back, and they'll pronounce them guilty and sentence in
the death. There is no way your jury is not
going to sentence these two to death.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
If it is sought. And you know what else breaks
my heart? Andy con that the mom God be with her.
Keeps saying thank you everybody for all your support. I'm
so grateful. She shouldn't even be in this position. And
I heard Ogg's a pretty good prosecutor state that the
(39:05):
prosecutors and law enforcement are under so much pressure because
there is just a wave, wave after wave after wave
of criminals from other countries coming into our country, and
right there is.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
One of the hubs where they come in.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So I've got to contend with not only our US,
our American citizens performing depraved acts on children.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Now I've got them coming over to do it.
Speaker 8 (39:34):
I see last year, last August, I worked with a
family who was eleven year old girl was raped and
murdered by an undocumented immigrant who is now facing the
death penalty. That was last August. So I sadly I've
worked with families that are facing this situation, and yeah,
it's a broken system.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
All the help if you know or think you know
anything about this case that can help the state build
the case. Dial seven one three three zero eight thirty
six hundred repeat seven one three three zero eight thirty
six hundred. I want to thank all of our guests
as our prayers go out to this little girl, Jocelyn
(40:18):
and her family, her mother and her little brother.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
We wait as justice I'm false. Good bye friend,
Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. This isn't right.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The family a little Joscelyn, just twelve years old, erupts
in open court when they are sitting there hearing the
facts laid out in court that this little Texas girl there, Joscelyn,
is lured under a bridge, stripped bound with her hands
behind her back, sex assaulted and strangled.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
I guess they did.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Erupt this, as the prosecutor says, I don't know if
we can seek the death penalty. You can. Good evening,
I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Thank you for being with us. Slain twelve year old girl,
Joscelyn Nungery's family lashing out in court as the two
men accused of killing their daughter are arraigned. I hope
they kill your children.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I can't imagine the pain, the anger, the hurt that
this family is feeling as we learn the defendants may
not even be exposed to the death penalty. There's not
a chance of the death penalty. What is the family
supposed to think? They erupt in open court as they
(01:23):
find out the horrific details surrounding the death of their girl,
twelve year old Joscelyn.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Listen this victim was found you, bound and without clothing
from the waist down in the water, and we.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Just think that there's a good possibility. We hope that
there's evidence that remains to be tested.
Speaker 5 (01:49):
I'm still fighting for her, and I just remember that
she was a very special little girl that deserves her justice.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
I know.
Speaker 5 (02:02):
She's going to make a difference in this world for
all children. And now it's my job to make sure
it continues to happen.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Why is it on the mom Why is it her
job to make sure that there is justice? And I
got to go to this panel with me an all
star panel. But first to Corey eat Peel, investigative reporter
KPRC two in Houston.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Corey, did I just hear.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
The prosecutor, whom I've always respected up until a few
moments ago, state she was found pause unclothed, pause, unclothed,
talk about putting perfume on the pig, airbrushing, whitewashing, unclothed.
I could be in a changing room in Nordstroms and
(02:51):
be unclothed.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
This girl had twelve twelve, had her hands bound.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Behind her, She was forced under a bridge by two guys.
She doesn't know adults, and she was stripped. She was
stripped from the waist down. Her pants were off. I
mean to hear aug say it unclothed.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
What.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
Yeah, these details were absolutely heartbreaking hearing in court. And
you know, at this point they were still kind of
skirting around the information on if she was sexually assaulted
or not. They're saying that they're still waiting on test
results to come back to prove that she was in
fact sexually assaulted. But those details absolutely heartbreaking to hear
(03:42):
in court, especially for Johnson's family, and as you can imagine,
emotions were high.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yesterday.
Speaker 7 (03:49):
We heard a family member scream out at one of
the suspects, calling him a murderer and killer, as they
were just in disbelief over this tragic, in her rific
crime could happen to their little girl.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
You're hearing Corey Peel invescadity reporter KPRC two in Houston.
I'm going to go to Andy Kahn, a longtime friend
and colleague, director of Victim Services crime Stoppers in Houston.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
What in the world is going on?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Hey, New York, let me see the graphic of how
you can get the death penalty in Texas. Because I'm
pretty sure if you commit an intentional murder, which strangulation
death is. This is a manual strangulation by hands while
and then they name a host of felonies, including kidnapping kidnapping.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Kidnapping does not mean.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
I bundle you in a trunk and I drive you
one hundred miles and hold you hostage. Kidnapping can mean
taking you one foot or one inch is called under
the law asportation. If that child is moved even one
inch under the law against her will, that is a
(05:04):
kidnap and therefore qualifies for a death penalty. Andy John,
what is going on in your hometown.
Speaker 8 (05:15):
You have a lot of convoluted laws that were passed
years ago involving capital murder of anyone who murders a child.
And in twenty nineteen they passed a law. Our legislators
passed a law removing the death penalty provision from anyone
who murdered a child from the ages of eleven to
(05:36):
fifteen unless it was done in conjunction of another offense.
I don't think there's any ifens or butts about it.
She was taken against her will, more than likely sexually assaulted.
But let's keep in mind. This is early. I would
it's going to happen.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Andy, I know that your politicians and the Texas ledgislature
had gutted the rules for aggravating circumstances for the death
penalty and many other jurisdictions. When a child under fourteen
fourteen and under is murdered, that automatically qualifies for a
(06:14):
jury to look at the death penalty. Whether they give
it or not, that's on the jury. But forget about
the age requirement. Your legislature, your Texas legislature change the
rule when now the child has to be under ten
for it to automatically apply. That doesn't fit in this
(06:35):
scenario because Jocelyn is twelve.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
However, listen to me.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
There is another condition under your law that your legislature
has managed not to gut yet. That says if the
death occurs the murder occurs during a kidnap, that qualifies
for the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
So what's the problem. I don't get it.
Speaker 8 (06:58):
I don't get it either, And my best guess is
this is a slow moving scenario. They want to get
first things done first, and then eventually they'll look at
adding the death penalty. You know there's a reason we
have the death penalty in the state of Texas. We're
known as the death penalty capital of the world. And
if these two defendants don't fit the criteria for the
(07:20):
death penalty, you might as well just gut it all
the way around.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Guys, we are hearing that the death penalty is not
being sought. And I'm not advocating pro or con right now.
I am saying that if this case does not qualify
for the death penalty to be at least presented to
a jury, who will they make the decision?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Not the prosecutor.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
But it's not going to even be given as an
alternative to this jury because neither defendant has confessed to
raping the girl. What what I've got to wait for
them to confess. If I had to wait for every defendant,
every killer, every rapist, every timlester to confess before they
(08:08):
get sentis that's never gonna happen. The Fulton County jail
would still be full of the thousands of people I
prosecuted because nobody is gonna confess. But this is what
they did say. You tell me what you think happened.
Speaker 9 (08:23):
Listen, Johann Jose, Ronyal Martinez and Franklin Jose Panoramos are
both charged with capital and murder. Pain Your Ramos tells
police he tried to convince Ronio Martinez to stop the
attack on Joscelyn, but he refused, telling pag Ramos he
had to finish what he started. Nungary's hands are tied
behind her back, her feet are bound. Ronyo Martinez climbs
on top of Joscelyn, covers her mouth, and strangles her
(08:45):
to death. Roanyo Martinez admits to tying Joscelyn up and
tossing your body in the bayou, but claims he didn't
kill her. Paina Ramos claims he only kissed the twelve
year old and denies any wrongdoing.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
Dodger Bethany Marshall. You know I'm a tea titler, but
this is to the bottle. Dr Bethany Marshall with me
whre now it's Psycho Alas joining us out of Beverly
Hills at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Doctor Bethany, I've had
so many defendants and co defendants who will tell you
(09:16):
the story about what happened their version, but they leave
out the critical moment. For instance, doctor. Bethany and I
were robbing a bank, and I said, don't kill anybody.
Bethany and she went in and we both had guns,
and I turned my head for just a moment and
(09:37):
I heard a gunshot, but I didn't see anything. And
when I turned back around, two bank tellers we're dead
and bleeding out in the floor. That one critical moment
somehow gets fuzzy, and here we see both defendants, one
claiming he quote only kissed twelve year old Jocelyn while
(09:59):
her hands were tied behind her back and her pants
and underwear were stripped off her body, just before one
of them crawled on top of the girl and strangled her, saying, quote,
he had to finish what he started, and all the
other one did was kiss her. Who and the h
eighth double l kisses a twelve year old little girl
(10:23):
tied up under a bridge with their pants.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
And underwear stripped off, he's kissing her.
Speaker 10 (10:29):
There's so many things wrong with this narrative, and also
so many tell tell signs that they are lying. First
of all, minimizing by saying I kissed her. Criminals always minimize,
and as you pointed out, being so vague about the
details sometimes they throw in too many details, but most
likely in this case, they're leaving out a lot of
(10:50):
horrific details that are going to come out as this
court case continues, and also minimizing the fact that she
is a twelve year old little girl. And also the
language is so inaccurate. Nancy, let's take out rape, assault,
and kidnap and let's put torture at the top of the.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
List crime stories.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
With Nancy Grace, let me go to another friend and
longtime colleague, doctor Kendall Crown's chief medical Examiner.
Speaker 1 (11:31):
That's not easy.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
You fight your way to get in medical school, you
fight your way through medical school, you do a residency.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's dog eat dog.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Everybody wants your spot, and he somehow climbs his way
to the top to become the chief medical Examiner in
Arrant County. That's Fort Worth, that's this neck of the woods.
Also lecturer at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU,
Doctor Kendall Crowns, I've prosecuted literally thousands of cases, thousands,
(12:01):
all felonies. When you are prosecuting and you didn't experience this,
you have to be a machine. You cannot think about
the details of the case, or I would crack if
I had to think about it. But as I'm listening
to doctor Bethany talk, I'm wondering, if you go through this,
(12:23):
as you perform autopsies on little girls, little children, to
think about what this girl twelve years old, You know,
my girl, she's about that big, beautiful just like this
little girl to be dragged under a bridge in the
middle of the night, don't you know? She was crying
(12:47):
and begging for them to stop what they were doing,
to yank her pants and underwear off, to tie her,
bind her with her hands behind her back, and one
of them claims I only kissed her. What and with
the marks on her back, this girl was raped. This
(13:13):
girl was tortured. The last thing she saw was the
dark of the night under a bridge where these two guys,
she's adult, males she had never met before, assaulting her.
Then probably the inability to breathe as one of them
(13:35):
crawled on top of her.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
And manually strangled the life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Out of her, then leaving her semi naked, throw her
into the water, and video Kim catches them. Doctor Kendall
Crowns just walking away. Why nothing had happened? When you
(14:02):
perform an autopsy. Do you let yourself even think about
these things? Or do you just become a robot and
do it?
Speaker 11 (14:13):
So you can't get emotionally charged when doing your work,
because that's going to cause you to miss things. So
you go through the story the information you have at
the time before the autopsy begins, and then you process
the case and go through it and you don't get
emotionally wrapped up in all the particulars of how horrific
(14:34):
the incident that resulted in this individual's death is, because
if you do, you can't do this job.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
Lord under a bridge, a stripped naked to the waste
bound and then assaulted for two hours. New court documents
detail horrific allegations.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
Not only do we learn what happened under that bridge
to little Joscelyn, we learn what happened afterward.
Speaker 9 (14:59):
Listen to After Johnslen Nunger's body has found, Police say
Ramos cut off an ankle monitor he was fitted with
when he crossed the border illegally at El Paso on
May twenty eighth. The discarded ankle monitor was found days ago. Ramos,
working in construction, asks his boss for extra cash so
he can skip down, but instead of getting cash, the
boss calls the police and Ramos is arrested straight out.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
To Cora Lee Peel, investigative reporter or kp RC two Houston,
I hope what Ogg is saying. I'm just interpreting here
is that when the rape kit comes back and I'm
going to go to you, doctor Kendle Crowns about how
a rape kit is performed and really how long it takes.
(15:40):
It doesn't take this long to get a DNA sample.
It doesn't, So I'm not sure what they're waiting on.
Because if there's DNA from one of the defendants to
show that she was raped because I'd spurned from one defendant,
they're both going to be charged with rape because while
one was raping her, the other one was standing by
(16:02):
what laughing holding her down?
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Oh hgl n Oh.
Speaker 2 (16:07):
They're both going to be charged with that and both
be death penalty qualified. Corley Peel again, investigative news reporter
kp RC two Houston, where this happened. Let me understand
how these two were caught. I understand we've got surveillance
video and the police did an incredible job of putting
(16:28):
together a montage of the let's see the seven eleven
the seven eleven video surveillance video. You can see as
the surveillance video goes on, you see her walking. The
little boyfriend she's calling on her cell phone reports hearing
two adults in the back. Look at that little thing.
She can't weigh over ninety pounds. If that these two
(16:51):
there are the animals. There they are, And I normally
don't use that phrase, but what they did to this
little girl is like an animal out in the jungle
and they approach her. They approach her, apparently asking for directions.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
She walks along.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
With them because they apparently lived near each other, did
not know each other. They're walking along and the next
thing you know, she's under a bridge bound being raped.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
So Corale Peel, how did they get caught?
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The incredible surveillance montage that reveals everything I just told you.
You see them taking her under a bridge and then
walking away like okay, that's done. But then in addition
to the montage, witnesses emerge.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
That's right.
Speaker 7 (17:44):
I mean, those photos were essential in this case. As
soon as the men saw their photos being plastered across
the country, all over social media and all the news,
they got scared, so the men Martinez there, he actually
shaved his beard and he apparently prosecutors found on his
(18:09):
phone that he was trying to research ways on how
to lead the country, how to get out. But it's
really interesting because Franklin Pinya, he actually called his boss
asking for help, asking to gather some money together so
he could get away. He told his boss that someone
was killed, he was in an issue that he needed
to get out of.
Speaker 10 (18:29):
The boss thought that was very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Okay, hold on, Corley Peel again. You got me drinking
from the fire hydrant. You know so many facts, and
I'm trying to ride as quickly as i can. Could
you back it up just a little bit and I'll
catch up. I wish I knew shorthand I don't. Okay,
go yeah.
Speaker 7 (18:49):
So basically, long story short, he calls nine one one,
the boss that the construction company calls police, and that's
how police were ultimately able to track down both men
at their apartment complex and take them into custody. And
I talked to prosecutors at that press conference and I said,
you know, was this boss the reason why they were captured?
(19:12):
And they said, that is one of the reasons why,
just because they have received hundreds of tips over that
course of that week while.
Speaker 10 (19:19):
They were on the run.
Speaker 7 (19:20):
But again they got scared after these photos were released
and people were looking for them.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
And now Coraline Peel from KPRC two is telling us
more that when these photos began to populate on TV,
people were seeing them. Their friends who knew them saw
the TV and they asked the boss. These two defendants
(19:49):
asked their boss. One of them asked for an advance
in money, said somebody had died and they needed.
Speaker 1 (19:58):
To get out of the jurisdiction.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
You know, when I see a broadcast on TV or
somebody calls me and gives me a tip about a murder,
I don't try to leave the country.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
They did, what about it?
Speaker 12 (20:12):
Those were indicative of guilt, Nancy. These guys knew what
they were in trouble. They knew people were going to
see the advertisement, the warnings on TV, and they knew
that they had to leave the country or leave the
state as soon as possible. They're criminals, They're animals.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
That's what they do.
Speaker 12 (20:29):
They run and they fleet.
Speaker 3 (20:31):
Joslyn nunger Ay fought back. Prosecutors say, leaving scratches and
byte marks on one of her attackers, still visible at
the time of his arrest.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Bite marks. Let's talk about bite marks.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Joining me, Corley Peel, investigative reporter KPRC two Houston. Corley,
I want to talk about the injuries to not only
the two defendants. Do you know when we first started talking,
almost got sick to my stomach as you were describing everything,
because when I was talking to doctor Kendall Crowns about
(21:08):
letting your mind go to where this was that night
and what the little girl lived through, what Jocelyn lived
through just before her death while her mom is snoozing away,
no idea that anything's happening to her baby. But I
now want to talk about the evidence and get my
(21:28):
mind back in the middle of the.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Road and out of the weeds.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Tell me about the injuries on her and the two defendants.
Speaker 7 (21:36):
Yeah, heartbreaking information that we received in court this week.
Apparently from what we heard from prosecutors that Jostin was
found with cuts on her body and scratches as well
as she was found bound and tied underneath that bridge.
And we also learned that Martinez Renjell he was also
(21:58):
found with bite marks, and scratches on him so when
he was arrested. So very heart wrenching information to hear
from prosecutors as they release that evidence, and especially hard
for her family to hear because she's only twelve years old.
No family should have to hear that a little girl
had to endure that type of horrific murder. I don't
(22:20):
want us to gloss over the truth. And here's the truth.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Two illegal Venezuelan migrants are now accused. I'm murdering our
twelve year old little Houston girl, Andy Kahn. Listen up,
you're next under a bridge. According to prosecutors, they strip
her naked, that's from the waist down, assaulted her for
two hours.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Two hours.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
This twelve year old girl was assaulted, assaulted, what does
that mean?
Speaker 1 (22:51):
Raped? That's what that means.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
And one of them has the audacity to tell me
I just kissed her. You kiss a twelve year old
little girl, tied up her bridge half naked, soulded her
for two hours, allegedly binding her not only by her
hands behind her back during the rape, her feet were
(23:14):
also bound, as doctor Bethny Marshall accurately pointed out, and
her back was covered in cuts.
Speaker 1 (23:25):
What does that tell you, Andy Kahan? Her back was
covered in cuts.
Speaker 8 (23:33):
Nancy, this is a real life Texas chainsaw massacre. What
happened to Joscelyn? The only way I can describe what
happened to her when you ask people, well, what happened exactly,
is if you watch a National Geographic show and you
see what lions do to Gazelle's and that's what these
two lions dier through this poorest child right here. It
(23:55):
is an absolute bloodbath. What happened to her. I've spoken
with Joscelyn's family, I've met them, I've talked with them.
I can't imagine the pain that they're going through. Yet,
at the same time, we're also going to make Joscelyn
Nungary a catalyst for change. I know there's a lot
going on right now, whether they're going to be seeking.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
The death Nady con too soon, too soon to talk
about how this is all somehow going to end up
being good and her rape and murder is going to
be a catalyst for change.
Speaker 1 (24:30):
You know, I don't normally say this to you, Indicaba,
screw that.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
I don't want to hear how somehow we're going to
turn this lemon into lemonade, catalyst for change. B ask
con what are you saying? And I asked you what
these injuries meant? And you skirted it. You did not
answer the question. The question was what do.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
These injuries on her back mean? Do I have to
spell it out for you.
Speaker 8 (24:59):
It means that she was tortured. She was tortured, she
was raped, she was strangled, she was kidnapped, and by God,
the death penalty is going to be sought in this case.
That is no ifans or buts from my perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
Doctor Bethany Marshall. You, as I have worked with so
many children and adults that were raped or sodomized as children,
and what the adults tell me is that the worst
thing about it was the feeling of helplessness, powerlessness.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
How some of them.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Actually, I didn't know about this phenomenon until an adult
female victim of Chamala's station told me about it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
That she would actually disembody and she.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Could look down at her body as her father was
raping her, and her mother sided with the father and
pretenda she didn't know anything about it went on for years. Okay,
you have to go with me down this dark tunnel,
because I'm going to tell you what happened. This little girl,
(26:12):
while bound with her hands behind her and stripped, was
forced down on the ground and was raped for two hours.
Then one of the finets climbed on top of her
and manually strangled her. And then they throw her body
(26:34):
likely face down into a by you. That's what happened
to this girl. She should be practicing her cello, what
instruments she was playing. She should be enjoying summer, jumping
in the apartment complex pool, playing with her friends, going
to get ice cream, talking to her little BF boyfriend
(26:55):
off the phone. But that's what happened to her. That
is what those injuries tell me. And there's no way
around it. I don't care how much everybody on this
panel wants to skirt away from it. That is what happened.
She was raped in the dirt on the ground under
(27:15):
a bridge by two adult males while her hands were
tied behind her back.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
That's what happened, Nancy.
Speaker 10 (27:22):
If I could add to that, there was a moment
before all this happened, when these guys asked her for
directions where she felt useful. She wanted to help them,
and then for anyone who's listening, who's ever been in
an accident, and all of a sudden, you know, things
have turned. There was that dawning of realization when they
take her under the bridge, that something really, really bad
(27:44):
is going to happen. They bind her hands and her legs,
and at that point she may not even know what
is about to befall her, but on some levels she
knows she's going to die. They take their pants off.
We're talking about them taking her pants off. Let's think
about two grown men taking their clothing off in front
(28:06):
of a little girl. We don't even know she's ever
seen the naked man before, and all those cuts along
her back. They threw her on the ground. This was
under a bridge. I picture. You know, empty aluminum cans, glass,
you know all the debris we see under kid under bridges.
They threw her on that debris. And as they were
(28:27):
raping her and thrusting themselves into her again and again,
her back was scraping along the ground. They didn't rape
her once twice. These men raped her multiple times, each
one looking on as the other one did it. That
is animalistic behavior. Nancy, do think women would do that
(28:48):
to a little boy? No, It's not just the rape,
it's the cruelty. It's the total lack of regard for
what was happening to her body and Nancy. These guys
I think were drunk and substance abusing sons does not
exonerate them, but it takes it a whole level worse
where they are just treating her like a sack of
potatoes and the control.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Room is reminding me in my ear.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
These two illegal immigrants charged with the murder of a
twelve year old oldle girl under the eyes of Lady
Justice are innocent until proven guilty.
Speaker 1 (29:29):
Crime stories with Nancy Grace two suspects.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
One claims he only kissed Joscelyn and tried to stop
the attack as his friend climbed on top of the
little girl strangling her.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
Tried to stop the attack. How doesn't make any sense everything?
Why am I trying to apply logic to an illogical situation?
Why am I trying to make sense about what these
two were saying? Because it's all lies, all lies. DNA
doesn't lie, circumstantial evidence does lie. This little girl did
not bind herself at the hands and feet, scratch her
(30:06):
back up on the ground, take off her own pants
and underwear and fling herself into the water. Okay, they
did it. And anything they say is a lie. It's
like the devil. Whatever he says, it's a lie. It
doesn't matter. It's a lie. They're lying.
Speaker 1 (30:28):
Now we know in the.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Last hours the family has been subjected to hearing the
facts the way we've been talking about them.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
No mother wants to hear this. I don't even want
to hear.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
It about another child, much less this mom hearing it
about her own child. And there was an explosion in
the courtroom, not the first time.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Listen, oldest sister.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Of Aaron Lindsey, Jim, whatever your name is, Satan, I'm mad.
Speaker 6 (31:00):
That's how you act when you are out of control.
I don't want to ever see my mother have to
go through this point again. Never, Jeffrey, I.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Only wish she had gotten her hands around his neck.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
And of course we all know about our friend Mark Class.
His daughter Polly was kidnapped during a little spend the
night party at her place in the middle of the night.
Speaker 1 (31:38):
I don't even say the defendant's name out loud.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
He took Polly, he raped her, he assaulted her, and
he murdered her and in court class, there's Polly Class
lunges for the killer and tries to strangle him right there.
In another case, a martial arts expert molested a little
(32:03):
boy and when he was extradited back to Louisiana and
he came off the plane, the dad shot him in
the head.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Later acquitted.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
But why are people suggesting that the family of Joscelyn
misbehaved in the courtroom.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
They didn't misbehave.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The two defendants misbehaved according to police, to any con
director of victim services, they're in Houston.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Do you blame them?
Speaker 8 (32:33):
No, absolutely not. I mean I've been in the courtrooms
where families have gotten up and have yelled. I've been
in a courtroom where a bailiff whispered to me and said,
I'll left the father of the young girl that was murdered.
If he goes over the rail, I'll give him a
few minutes before I pull him off. No, nobody blames
them for anything that happened. I don't blame them for
(32:54):
unleashing as well. I would probably do the same. This
is the worst possible scenario you can imagine. This family
is undergoing right now. Joscelyn is everybody's daughter. She is
everybody's sister, She is everybody's niece. This is not just
a Houston issue, It's not just a Texas issue. She
has become the national issue for what happens when you murder, rape,
(33:18):
and strangle and kidnap a twelve year old little girl.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
You know Andy again, I consider your friend. We've worked
together for many, many years. But does your mouth ever
get tired of just saying the same thing?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Blah Dad.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
She's supposed girl for filling the blank. She's a countless
for change. She represents every girl. Really that one of
these people keep coming into our country and committing.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
Murders, and not just them other perps.
Speaker 2 (33:49):
You see it over and over, repeat offenders praying on victims, younger,
less cunning, less powerful than they are, walk free, and
then they do it again. A catalyst for change. This
is one in a string of many. Do I have
(34:09):
to name them off? There's Lake and Riley, there's Molly Tibbis,
there's Rachel mourn. He goes on and on for Pete's sake. Man,
second verse, same as the first.
Speaker 8 (34:22):
That's why I'm here to do that, to make sure
that what happened with her at least we can make
the attempt that it doesn't happen to somebody else. That's
the least we can do in her honor and in
her memory. And that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
You know what, Andy Conn, You're right. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
You just have to be the target of my anger
and frustration about what happened to this girl. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
how are we going to prove she was raped? How
does it happen? And that medical examiner darnwell being dotting
his eyes and crossing his t's as he or she
(34:59):
performs rape kit.
Speaker 11 (35:01):
So proving a sexual assault, you can look for damage
to the vagina, the anus. Usually it's tearing, contusions or bruises,
abrasions or scratches from the forceful penetration. And then you
can also do a sexual assault kit, also known as
a rape kit, where you collect evidence pubic hairs from
(35:24):
the individual, also any hairs that.
Speaker 8 (35:27):
Are on the body.
Speaker 11 (35:28):
You do DNA swabs of the body as well as
DNA swabs of the vagina, anis, and mouth, and then
those can be tested for DNA of the possible perpetrator.
It can take several weeks for all that to come back.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
Though, Doctor Kittel crowns, You and I both know that
it doesn't take several weeks to get DNA.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Why are you saying that.
Speaker 11 (35:51):
Well, it does take several weeks for the testing to
get done. You can't just expect it to happen overnight.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
There's not an immediate DNA test because I've had them
done at the crime lab.
Speaker 11 (36:01):
I mean rapid DNA tests are using.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
Is a quick test result?
Speaker 11 (36:05):
Well, you can get quick test results, correct, but you
can't necessarily pinpoint it to the specific individual without doing
all the specific testing.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Well, okay, then your Texas crime lab must work differently
than the one that I use.
Speaker 1 (36:18):
Because we can get quick test results.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I know they're not as reliable as they wants to
take two weeks, but it's enough for death penalty, indictment,
and one more thing very quickly. Doctor Kendall crowns about
the bite marks in her condition. Tied up, hands and
feet on her back, she managed to bite a defendant.
Is there a chance we could get his DNA out
(36:43):
of her mouth?
Speaker 8 (36:44):
Yes, that is a possibility.
Speaker 11 (36:46):
If she bit hard enough and pulled skin cells off,
it's possible that they could get it from her mouth.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
To Corley p Old kp RC two. What is happening
right now?
Speaker 7 (36:56):
Well, right now both men are in jail with ten
million dollar bonds each. This investigation is ongoing. Prosecutors say
that they're still waiting on test results to prove if
Joson Ungerray was sexually assaulted. So we're still waiting to
see if those charges will be upgraded or if they
(37:17):
will face the death penalty because of right now, based
on the legislature, they're not death penalty eligible, So still
a lot more to uncover in this case for sure.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
Michael Levana is the bottom line. They're kicking back having
three hots and a cot.
Speaker 12 (37:32):
The investigators are at the mercy of the legal system.
They have to abide by what the district attorney guidance
that they give them. They honestly do probably want a
fist sexual assault, but they have to wait for the results.
They're at the mercy of the crime left.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Oh, okay, so I guess she had her pants pulled
off and had scratches on her back and one admits
that he was kissing her.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
I guess that's not enough for them yet, But I'm telling.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
You, well, you can say that and I've tried plenty
of cases with circumstantial evidence and without DNA before the
advent of DNA and all that was a blood type.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Okay, so it can be done.
Speaker 12 (38:13):
It's going to be a circumstantial case because there the
one wants to admit, they minimize their actions.
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
To hear Michael Levanas tell it, I've got to wait
on a confession, and that'll be a cold day in
HL before these two confess.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Andy con, what and I just am I the one upside.
Speaker 8 (38:30):
Down here before a Texas jury. I could probably step
outside when they get the case, go to the restroom,
come back, and they'll pronounce them guilty and sentence in
the death. There is no way your jury is not
going to sentence these two to death.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
If it is sought. And you know what else breaks
my heart? Andy con that the mom God be with her.
Keeps saying thank you everybody for all your support. I'm
so grateful. She shouldn't even be in this position. And
I heard Ogg's a pretty good prosecutor state that the
(39:05):
prosecutors and law enforcement are under so much pressure because
there is just a wave, wave after wave after wave
of criminals from other countries coming into our country, and
right there is.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
One of the hubs where they come in.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
So I've got to contend with not only our US,
our American citizens performing depraved acts on children.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
Now I've got them coming over to do it.
Speaker 8 (39:34):
I see last year, last August, I worked with a
family who was eleven year old girl was raped and
murdered by an undocumented immigrant who is now facing the
death penalty. That was last August. So I sadly I've
worked with families that are facing this situation, and yeah,
it's a broken system.
Speaker 2 (39:53):
All the help if you know or think you know
anything about this case that can help the state build
the case. Dial seven one three three zero eight thirty
six hundred repeat seven one three three zero eight thirty
six hundred. I want to thank all of our guests
as our prayers go out to this little girl, Jocelyn
(40:18):
and her family, her mother and her little brother.
Speaker 1 (40:24):
We wait as justice I'm false. Good bye friend,
Host
Nancy Grace
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