Ep. 120: World Record Elk

So you may have heard about the potential world record elk that recently was killed in Washington? It was everywhere on social media!!! You may have also saw others try to discredit the accomplishment. Jason and Dirk sit down to discuss the topic through their point of view. They discuss the legality, circumstances, finances required as well as public perception and give their opinion on what may have eased the negative attention the hunter received.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome back to another episode of Cutting the Distance. Today,
I'm joined by my good buddy and co host Dirck Durham.
Oh hey, there, how you doing so? I think it
was just we just turned into twenty twenty five and
it didn't take very long for the Elk cunning world
to be kind of shook up by a post from
our good buddy Paul Brooks. And I consider him a
good friend. You know, we used to build them turkey

(00:33):
calls back in the day and work with them. When
we talk with them, we're cordial with them. But I
do with the direction we're going, I do want to
make he does, you know, run a call company or
help work for a call company? So I just want
to put all out there. I want this to be
a normal conversation with all the facts light out there.
But he made a post. I believe it was on
February second. I woke up and I couldn't turn on

(00:56):
I shouldn't. People are gonna judge me, But I flicked
the Facebook a post about a big giant bowl. I
flip over to Instagram just because I'm look, you know,
oh there's another bolt flipped the TikTok. Somehow it's there.
I you know, you couldn't go anywhere on February second
without seeing January's post or yeah, excuse me, January second,
you couldn't. You couldn't go anywhere without seeing a post

(01:18):
or text messages like if it wasn't for social like
I didn't have to do anything because I was getting,
you know, hundreds of texts. You know what do I know?
Where was it killed? Was it Washington? You know, the
list goes on and on. So we want to talk
a little bit about this world record potential, I would
say potential world record out that was recently killed in
the state of Washington by Casey Brooks Bo's dad. And

(01:40):
you know, I've known Casey since I've ever started this.
I can remember being a little, a little dummy working
out of the corner of Corey Miller's booth down there
at Portland, and a guy came up and I'd had
my magazine article, you know, my my three seventy Roosevelt,
and it started asking me, and we had a little
conversation and went back and and Corey's that you know

(02:00):
who that was? I said, don't have a clue who
that was, you know, And ended up being Casey Brooks
and we were talking about about big Elk and wear,
and so we've known him for a long time and
I just wanted to wanted to you know, we we
battle this a little bit behind the scenes, like I
want to be one hundred percent transparent in this podcast.
Me and Dirt have the means, we have the funds
within our company. We we buy tags at times, right

(02:23):
either landowner tags, outfit or tags. And so I just
want to open this wide open and just talk about
all the all the pieces of it. But so Bow
makes a post on January second about the bowl, does
a write up about his dad and some of his accomplishments,
and then like anything that's big or or you know,

(02:46):
you know, kind of jaw dropping. You know, I'll kind
of ows you it wasn't very long, what a day
or two. And then the the uh, the opposite, you know,
the the naysayers, the people that had something to throw,
you know, try to try to put chinks in the
armor and break the story apart.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I almost feel like if you shoot a three hundred
inch bull, people start just throwing rocks like oh, it
must be nice to hunt private land or whatever I mean.
And then this thing is you know, potentially a three
or a four hundred and eighty inch bull in that score,
so you know there's lots of lots of crap being thrown.

Speaker 1 (03:22):
Oh yeah, I mean, not to this. I don't want
to make this story about myself. But that same three
seventy bowl, I killed it and then had a trip
immediately to the Bob Marshall. So I killed it around home,
got the tax nermous and then like two days later
took off. Well, my good buddy John Davis was my
guide there on that hunt and in Montana, Yeah, in Montana,
and he started to ask me, you know, we're good friends,

(03:45):
but he was just my guide. He was working for
an outfitter and that's how he booked the hunt, and
he had killed a couple three fifty tight bowls in
that same area. And He's like, so of the stories
happened yet, And I'm like, oh no, it's just been
squeaky clean, Like no, you know, just I killed a
big good Yeah. I get home and I killed it
at night. I killed it using my work key at

(04:07):
the time, I worked for the DNR. I killed it
on this area. I drove my truck into a walk
in and by the time I was done, I was
fighting with the entire internet over like where it was killed,
how it was killed, you know, and it was just like,
oh my gosh, it's crazy. So like anything, you know,
at that time, I think it was a number two
bowl in the state. So there's just like controversy and

(04:27):
and I think people by nature are jealous. But yeah,
we just wanted to kind of to jump into that
and and talk about kind of all sides and then
in my opinion, our opinion kind of like make it
go full circle and and maybe say what we think,
you know, why there was so much you know, either

(04:48):
jealousy or frustration you know, with the bowl, And we'll
kind of save that for the end. So one thing
that that like maybe a question that that encompasses this
whole whole ordeal. And and somebody started to post, you know,
when the naysayers start coming out, they're like, so you
to tell me if you had the same means you
wouldn't be doing the same thing. And I'm curious how

(05:09):
you would answer that, would you if you had And
we're gonna get into the financial stuff and not later,
but like if you had the ability and it meant
the same to your checkbook and you had the ability,
would you go hunt this bowl? Oh?

Speaker 2 (05:22):
Absolutely, I would go hunt that bowl. Now, there's a
lot of speculation on where and how this bowl was killed,
and may or may not agree with that, and it
may not really serve the way I want to hunt
and elk, but I would definitely try to take advantage
of the way he got that tag if I had

(05:42):
those means, absolutely, because I love elk hunting right and
I feel like anybody who who loves elk hunting with
the amount of passion that you and I both have,
if you have the means to like hunt elk all
the time, really really really really big elk why, I
don't know. I don't think there's a lot of people
who would say, Nope, nope, I I'd rather go try

(06:04):
to shoot five points every season instead of being able
to go hunt some crazy places. You know, they'd rather,
you know, fight off, fight off the Orange Army, per se.
You know, there's just public Land has got a lot
of folks on a hunting and it's hard, it's a grind.
And then if if you have that amount of means,
you know, financially to go hunt let's say the most

(06:28):
premium Indian reservations or these these governor tags, raffle tags whatever.
You know, you're not competing with a whole lot of
other hunters. You know, there's you know, you're gonna be
on public land a lot of times, but you're you're
not fighting the crowds. So and then you just have
the opportunity to see big, giant, mature animals. And and

(06:51):
I think I think all of us would would be
okay with or would want to go do that if
you have the means. I mean, that's that's my opinion.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, and I've got a little different answer. And and
we've talked about this, you know before, I'm like, I
want to say no, And we're going to get into
some more of the facts, which it may make more
sense when you come and look at this question. You know,
I don't let me rephrase that. I don't know if
they're facts. I have seen pictures and videos of where
this bowl was at prior, but I don't know, you
know that they're factual or you know, around the whole situation.

(07:22):
But I don't know if I would. It doesn't like
for me, I get excited about killing a four point buck,
you know, way up on the mountain as far from
the stinking side by side as I can. For some reason,
you know, we're five mile hiking. I don't know why
right now. And that's where I love. That's why I
love hunting, like it can be something different for everybody.

(07:44):
You know, it doesn't have to be defined as one thing.
It doesn't. You know, what gets one guy excited doesn't
get the other guy excided, which is great because I
think it keeps us all spread out hunting different ways.
But like for me, hunting, I want to I want
and I'm not saying there wasn't a lenge. I guess
this is where there's gonna be a lot of because
I don't know the whole story. I want, like I

(08:05):
want like a physical challenge, and I don't know why
it's turned into that. For me, I want to feel
like I beat you know, the animal in its own
like at its best, I guess, right, And so for me, yeah, like, well,
I will say wintering wintering animals like a buck that's
lived his whole life in the cemetery. You know, it

(08:27):
seems like cemeteries attracted you know, golf courses, but like
walking out on like whole nine and shooting the biggest
buck that's ever lived, just like well versus if I
could take that buck and like where you know the
famous Popeye, the forty inch buck that David Long, you know,
like because you would disappear, nobody can ever find him

(08:48):
in his high country, but like winter range, they would
find him. And I'm like, it's almost like killing two
different animals, right, Like the one up in the high
country would be different. But when he's forced to come
down in the sage brush, like man, I just at
that point love to look at him. I'm probably getting
ahead of myself here, but.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, no, and I agree with that. Like I'm not
saying I would want to go hunt these things, these
these elk or deer in their most vulnerable places, Like
if I would be able to get that tag, I'd
love to be able to search the high country for them,
or you know where they're spending their septembers in October
is now if they migrate out. I mean, that's that's
a completely different conversation and thought process. But I will say, though,

(09:28):
I back to your point of like getting excited to
shoot a four point in the middle of nowhere public land,
I agree one hundred percent with you. I do love that.
I kind of made the comment about five points. I
will say like some years I've had, like, for instance,
like a landowner tag in New Mexico and I had,
you know, elk hunt in Idaho and whatever, so on

(09:50):
and so forth. But the most excited on those years
I've ever you know, of the hunts, I've been excited
to go on or back to my just my, my, my
Idaho public land whatever middle of nowhere, probably one of
the most wolf infested units in Idaho. I kind of
look forward to that the most. I feel like it's

(10:10):
like you're you're really like success there gives you the
best feel goods, you know. It's like, man, I worked hard,
and I really figured this out. And it's funny. My
wife like the first time I had a New Mexico
outfit or tag to where we could I wasn't outfit
land inner tag. My wife's like, well, if you should
a really big one, you can't get it mounted and

(10:31):
put in the house. That's cheating. My wife said this,
that's cheating. But if you kill one up, you know
in Idaho, you know, then then you can get that
one head mounted. And I'm like hey, now hold on, you.

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Know, yeah, your your wife's now the judge of what
what counts as a trophy and not.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, so you know, she always keeps me grounded.
But but I will say that that was that was
a kind of a funny, funny thought process. But like
I was always like, oh, I almost I almost feel
like you're right there.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
So yeah, no, it's it's weird. And I walk in
my house, you know, I get to look at some
of the mounts, and there there's the Mount Emily bowl
that Whep me and you killed together, you know, with
the rightfle and it's a great bull. It's the one
over the fireplace. I'm like, that's big. But I turned
to my right and it's the bowl I killed Mountain
View in Washington. That's similar size, a little bit smaller.

(11:20):
But I for some reason in my head, that one's
it holds a little bit. It doesn't have the asterisk
next to it because I drew it through the special permits. Right,
it was still a similar season, limited number of hunters.
I still had the same advantage. But for some reason,
I'm like, well, at least I didn't have to like
pay for the opportunity, Like I literally drew a twelve
dollars and fifty cent you know tag, just out of

(11:40):
the random draw. So I don't know why. In my
head it's just something like, yeah, get paid for that one.
You know, you got this one the regular way. But
in the reality, the elk had the same chance. I
had the same chance, Like it was no different of
an advantage. Besides, I probably wouldn't have got the Emily tag.
Well I know I wouldn't have got the Emily take.
I don't have any points, you know, to get it

(12:01):
any other way. So it just, yeah, there's a little
bit of like these special tags. You know, we've we've
got to hunt New Mexico a little bit on landowner tags.
We've got to hunt, you know, Colorado. Back in the day,
I would buy a few deer landowner tags and it's
still awesome and I love to do it. And I
would be a liar if I said I I didn't
love those, and I would still do it because I

(12:21):
love to just be out there and hunt. But I
haven't got what I would consider like these super special tags. Right,
I just get a ticket to the show. I'm still
hunting along fifty other guys in Mount Emily, I'm still
hunting along, you know, the other tagholders during a set
season that the fish and wildlife sets because there's the
best chance of escape, you know, Like we still got
some of these odds against us, and I haven't got
a true true like premium. I guess my elk tag

(12:45):
this year is pretty premium, but just just like late
season and I do, I walk in and I don't
know why. I maybe with age it'll finally dissipate. But
I look in there like, oh, that was a public
land bull over the countertag. Oh that's a that was
a landowner tag or an outfitter tag, like eh not
not you know, you just knock it down a rung
on the ladder.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right right, I feel like there's like, like you said,
we get a like an outfitter tag or a lander tag,
You're still just got a ticket to the show, right
You're still you're still navigating public land with a lot
of other folks. Like on my ol hunt this year
in Oregon, Dude, we see it. We saw so many people.
They were people across the canyon right where we spotted

(13:26):
the elk the night before. We're right where they're supposed
to walk there's people walking through there and sitting down
and stinking it up and blowing out any opportunity there.
There's people over at another vantage point looking for the
same bull we're looking for, where there's people walking up
on us, standing next to us one our viewpoint that
standing there talking and looking in like, hey, you gotta
be quiet. We're trying trying to get an elk here

(13:47):
and they're talking out loud, and and you know, looking
for spikes. You know they can be out there. You know,
these are all the spike hunters. And and we did
see another big bull tag hunter over there in that
other vantage point. But meant there was people everywhere, so
you know, it's not like we got some you know, Okay,
come through the the pearly gates here and now you're

(14:08):
in el Kevin and there's nobody else. It's it's still
that So it's not that level of of I mean,
it's a great opportunity that you know, not everybody can get,
I guess, but it's a.

Speaker 1 (14:19):
But shoot it. I mean, if you but let's say
you did have a state wide tag, you could have
killed the Big Bowl. We were watching the night before
while we were all scouting to try to find it.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Right, right, we could have just pulled the trigger right
then if we'd have the next level tag.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah. Yeah, that's just that difference of like, all right,
these elk aren't dumb. Pressure shows up the Big Bowl
we were watching like you knowwhere to be seen the
next day because he had forty people around him the
night before, you know, not really forty. I'm exaggerating, but yeah,
it's just that's where it gets back to these like
super premium tags, Like there's a huge difference on having
a great tag that's but you're hunting along everybody else,

(14:55):
but like being able to hunt the dates in between
seasons or just any time you want. It's it's I
think a huge difference.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, well what do you what do you think set
everybody off with this post? Anyway? Can can you can
you elaborate on what the post said?

Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yeah, I will. I was gonna get there a little
bit at the end. Okay, I wanted I really wanted to.
I don't want to put that. I really wanted the
touch on the legal side because it's important to me
and we've been advocates for this. I've mentioned on this
podcast many times, like I ultimately don't care at the
end of the day, as long as it's legal, Like yeah,
I can have my opinion, like yay, nay, Like I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Do it legal it's a company me, but you know
it's legal.

Speaker 1 (15:40):
Yeah, And I'm I'm so tired of the division within
the hunting you know world. I shouldn't say industry is
a stupid word because there's not very many of us.
To me, it matters like the hunting world, people that
participate in hunting. There's so much division, you know, on
this season versus that season. I want more time, you guys,
you know your weapon gets more time, you know, meal
deer over elk elk over meal deer, weapon choices, weapon restrictions,

(16:05):
like if it's legal it We always complain about fish
and wildlife organizations, but I guess at some point we're
gonna have to trust them a little bit, Like if
the fishing game have decided that that is a legal
method of take and the seasons are based on it,
Like at some point, I'm not the judge anymore. Right,
I can say I don't like it, or I think

(16:27):
we should fight for some change, but at some point,
like my only measuring stick is the judge in the
jury is like is it legal or is it not?
And I should be done with it right, you know,
aside from so one thing we go back to, like
all right, the raffle tickets were bought for for an
area and and so he had a legal tag, he

(16:50):
had a legal right to hunt this elk this giant
bowl where it was at. So I'm assumed, you know,
I've got to assume then no reason not to believe
that it wasn't you know, killed over you know, more
than ten ten gallons of feet if feed was even used.
I have no reason to believe that, you know, up
all of this caliber, like you know, there's no trespassing involved,

(17:13):
permission to hunt on the place that lived, season dates,
all of the things are, all the boxes have been checked,
so it's legal. So why why would we, you know,
why would I have any issues with this? And we're
going to kind of wrap all that up, you know,
you kind of to ask me to explain why the
issue was with this. But as far as I'm concerned,

(17:33):
it's legal, right, Like, who were we to say different?

Speaker 2 (17:38):
Yeah, we weren't there, and I just assume I assume
you know, they did it, right, you.

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Know, yeah, some of the speculation and some of the
pictures that the others have brought up there are I've
seen two videos and I've seen three or four pictures
of this bowl. You know. One it was behind like

(18:05):
a white vinyl horse fence, kind of comes up to
the fence and turns away. The second video I've seen
has the bull eating out of a little I would
call it a little pile of alfalpha. But you know
those like danglely like I call them party lights, you
know where you can kind of dangle these lights from
from post to post, you know, the big big in
the Yeah, they were you know, there was a picture

(18:26):
video of the bowl, obviously a trailcam picture of a
bull eating some alfalfa and then it walks out of
the frame. And then a couple of pictures of the bowl.
I believe one was the prior year and one was
this year of the bull eating some alfalfa and some
deeper snow. I don't know dates on those photos, none
of that, but those are what we've seen, and so
that that is what kind of stirs up some of
the unrest and and the way the story was, you know,

(18:48):
it goes against I won't say against but goes it
maybe challenges as a story, I'll put it that way,
a little bit more on on you know, how how
everything went, but I don't. And this is where I
got to make sure, you know, I don't want to
be hypocritical, because I've killed a meal deer in each
washing over a pile of apples. And that was pre

(19:09):
like measured bait rules. So like I'm not joking. When
we would pull up, everybody's seeing like the big bins
of apples traveling you know, potatoes in like big giant bins, like.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Literally two tons of apples.

Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, I was literally hunting over the like the the
deer stood in the pile of apples to eat the apples,
sort of a pile of apples.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
But how much how many apples were there on the
bait though when I hunted, Yeah, it was like the
major like there was no measurement back then. It was
back then like oh you could put truckload of apples.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Yeah, and that's what I mean, Like I'm literally hunting
like the ultimate bait, right apples. It smell on the
top of apples. Yeah yeah yeah, so uh that you know,
I've hunted deer over that and I did it once.
My good buddy are good buddy orn with Tanglewood Guides
invited me out and I'm like, hey, I did it once,
Like this is I thing. And it kind of that

(20:01):
was one where I had to kind of challenge my
own personal you know, what I want to do for
anty because there was a one eighty eight and a
one eighty four buck killed that time, you know, and
I'm like, oh, and there was a bigger one around
and you know, invited me back, and I'm like, man,
I would just assume take my wife back if I
was going to come back. And he allowed my wife
to come back, and we had a different blind and
you know, and I've black tails around home. You know,

(20:23):
everybody killing big black tails around home. You know, most
of the time they need to. I shouldn't say everybody.
Most of the black tails around home are being killed
over bait, you know, in some sort of a blinder,
a tree stand set up. We hunt. We hunt over
bait at times, not all the time. In Kansas when
we go right, it's just it's legal. And so like
that's where I want to get back to, Like I

(20:43):
don't have a single issue with baiting, you know, we
We've did it at times in the past. I've did
it and didn't really appreciate it, and you know the experience,
and now that we're in Kansas, at times it's our
best option and where Randy tells us we should be,
we we are. So I don't have an issue with
that as long as it's legal in that state, and
you know, everything's followed. So in my opinion, like this

(21:07):
checks the box, like as far as we know all
the information we know, like this bowl was killed legally,
you know, I don't have an issue with with any
of it. So we will circle back and then we'll
get into the rest of the stories. So you had mentioned,
you know, so what was the issue er if? I
don't necessarily have an issue, but one of the things
that bothered me was maybe the way the post, the

(21:29):
original post. You know, Casey let his son Bo make
the post and it starts right out. It doesn't say
anything like new world record. You know, my dad does
it again, it's the King of l Hunting, and it
goes through to you know, talk about being number three
and number four already in the books and like his
lifelong dream to be, you know, hold the world record

(21:50):
and so I think people and even myself, like it
is what it is. I can read that, and like,
I don't know how you define the King of l Hunting.
Is it truly the record book? But I think that's
what really kind of made some people either amplify their
jealousy or like you want to throw stones, whatever you

(22:11):
want to call it. That's what kind of I think
triggered some people. Yeah, I think that post would have
been written up different. It could have been a completely
different outcome.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
In my opinion, I agree one hundred percent. It was
a little inflammatory to a lot of folks, I think.
But and then then I look at like if I
put myself in Bo's seat, right, and and like in
every every young man you say, well, my dad's the
best dad in the world. My dad can beat up
your dad. I mean, everybody is pretty damn proud of

(22:41):
their dad. Like they put their dad on a pedestal,
so I can see the excitement, Like I can see
him like he's so excited for his dad and he
thinks so much of his dad, and he puts that
on there, and I can when I look at that perspective,
like I'm not mad at all. But if you look
at it from a different through a different lens. It
can be a little in lamoratory to a lot of
people because a lot of other people like, no, hey,

(23:02):
hold on, I know a guy, my buddy, or my
dad or my whoever, they're a better hunter because they
do it this way or that way. Yeah, so back
to like comparison, right, Like, you know, and I think
like comparison is the thief of joy or whatever the
old dadage says. So so this comparison, like my dad's

(23:23):
the best delk hunter in the world. Everybody like immediately
internally like, well bullshit, I I know twenty seven other
people are better than that, you know, And immediately people
are mad about it. So I think you're right. I
feel like it was. If it would have been a
little a different post, it could have been perceived differently.

(23:43):
But but then again, I get it. I can.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
I totally get it, And there's part of me that
like respects the post and would have did the same thing, like,
and I struggle with it, like if I get to
a place where maybe BO doesn't give a crap what
anybody thinks, like this is my post. You can judge
it however you want, Like this is you know what
I mean, right, if you don't take any of these
naysayers or these jealous individuals and like their attacks back

(24:06):
like I made the post the way I wanted to, right,
right and how I felt so I but I think
there's also the sense like if you think of it
that way, it's better. But you also just put it
on social media with the intent or the purpose to
share and get that out there. You've got to expect
like some of that that to come back with the
way it was worded and put together, right.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
And another thing if you think about like let's say
you said, hey, my dad just found the cure to cancer,
and he is now the best scientist in the world,
and look at all of his you know, he's got
this prize here, this Nobel prize for this, he's accomplished
all this other stuff. And let's say you know, you've
now he's found the cure for whatever XYZ disease. And

(24:49):
of course it's different context. Of course it's not hunting.
It's something completely different and super way more important. But still,
like I don't somebody probably would be mad like, hey,
wait a minute, I'm a pretty damn good scientists too,
But they probably be less less anger or less hate.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, yeah, And I want to be careful. I don't
want to feel like I'm being a life coach here.
But like I've I've went through you know when I I've
never killed anything that's potential, you know, best in the world,
you know. I guess my one bowls as close as
it gets your number two in the state. And I think,

(25:27):
and maybe it's just everybody's got different personalities. But like
I tried to like overly be humble about it. Like
I didn't. I didn't want to be judged. It was nothing.
You know, there's there's a lot of factors that go
into it. Yeah, there are people that are you know,
consistently good elk hunters, consistently successful. But I didn't want
to be put on any pedestal. It just happened to be.
I was in the right place, with the right bowl

(25:48):
at the right time. Like be careful here, Like my
skills are above average. I think I think I've proven
it enough times that probably above average. But like I
didn't want to be I didn't want that to be anything.
I didn't want to be like defined by one single
elk or one single accomplishment or most. You know, it's
like I just wanted the elk. I just wanted the

(26:10):
elk to be like seeing respected. I did have a
business need and so it gets very complex, right, And
I guess everybody does stuff for different reasons. But I
just love the elk hunt. At the end of the day, Yeah,
I got a little bit lucky, a little bit fortunate
to kill a giant bowl. It it you know it,

(26:30):
it took off every you know back then you were
with you know, Extreme Milk magazine, Like you guys wanted
a copy of it, and you know the story and
you know, things kind of went on. And maybe I'm
a hypocrite for saying like I didn't want you know,
everybody to know about it, I guess, and around about
way I did. But I just I wanted to be
like real, modest and somewhat humble through that process because it,
I don't know, I didn't want hunting to like be

(26:54):
that thing that they gave you some social status. I guess,
you know, growing up with the grandpa that was all
about filling the freezer, I just felt a little bit
dirty or wrong. And now I've got an entire business
where I post everything I do, so I'm trying to
like walk through this, but I guess at the end
of the day, maybe I'm a hypocrite.

Speaker 2 (27:10):
Well, I don't think you're intending, like, for instance, like
you could say this about shooting a giant bowl, you
could say this about buying a brand new pickup, like
you kind of feel like a little bit humble, Like
I don't. I don't want. I don't want people to
see me driving this pickup and then maybe they can't
afford a cool truck like this and then feel bad
Like I don't. I'm not trying to like make crush

(27:30):
anybody's dreams or feel bad or if I kill something
really nice, and I don't want anyone to feel less
from it, you know. I want if if they see it,
I hope they see it and like you know, and plod,
you know, and like get inspired, but not feel slighted
or feel like, oh man, you're just throwing that in
her face. You know, I think that's part of your humility.

(27:52):
I don't think you're you're looking for that at all.
You're just like trying to share and and with you know,
our brothers and brotherhood of hunting. You know, it's like, hey,
look at this as a beautiful elk and has a
beautiful experience and and maybe there's some inspiration from it,
but yeah, back to your.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Yeah, and that's yeah. And that's like you know people
you know time like, oh, Dirk's the best elk call
in the world, or Jason's a you know, a Matt
you know, I just watched an episode somebody's like, oh,
Rogan mentions you on on this one. So I go
flip to Joe Rogan and he calls me like a
master in a world class, and I'm like, ah, you know,
just like some of those things like get under your skin.
You're like, I'm I'm good at it, right. I think

(28:28):
it would be stupid to say I'm a bad out caller, right,
But I just I just don't. I don't. Maybe I
shouldn't care, but I'm always like, oh, somebody's gonna be like, oh, yeah,
but I've did this, or you know. It's like I
just want being somewha humble and flying under the radar
and not. I don't know. It just seems like a
safer spot at times, right, right, And maybe I'm a chicken.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I don't even know what I'm talking about. Right now.
But it's one of those things where like the way
I guess getting back to the way the post was made,
like just yeah, I think putting it out there to
all of social media in the context it was it's like,
you know, king of elk hunting, and then went back
to all like oh now he's number one, four and five,

(29:08):
you know, or whatever it is. However that's going to
lay out now. It was just I think it rubbed
some people the wrong way, like you said, And I
think if it was worded different or like we're so
grateful or so thankful to have, you know, so blessed
to have the opportunity, you know, and it went that way,
I think would have been maybe a different response to
to the to the.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
There'd still be there'd still be the haters, but I
feel like I feel like they wouldn't have struck a
nerve as many people.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Maybe, Yeah, And I have no doubt, like I've never
got to hunt with Casey. Regardless of where you're hunting.
I've always said that too, regardless of where you're hunting,
you still have to know, like you have to show
the elk don't know that you've got a special tag
and you know that, like you're who you are, Like
the Elk don't just lay down regardless, so you still
have to know what you're doing. And so I've never

(29:53):
I don't want to discredit anything that you know, Casey
or Bo or anybody is accomplished. I'm just walking through,
you know, the circumstances around this one. So let's jump
in one thing. And I got this is what I
got some messages and even got like specific questions. Is
the the uh the wealth involved that you know, I

(30:16):
would say me and you are probably in that one
percent of people that get to spend money on elkhunting
due to our marketing budget, due to the resources we have.
But the wealth that's put into this hunt by others,
Like that's the one thing you get that got brought
up more than anything else is like oh if I
could do it, or you know another you know, people
throw all kinds of other claims out there. I don't

(30:37):
even know. I haven't added it up, you know, cost
of the raffle tags and everything. But like this sort
of wealth allows for opportunities that can probably be had
by I wouldn't even get in the percent. I would
just say fifty to one hundred individuals.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, and out a world and then out of those
people who has the interest to spend the money and
then go go to work and then know how to
know how to hunt right or have that kind of interest,
Like I could do it, but I don't really I'm
not really interested in hunting.

Speaker 1 (31:07):
Elk yep, yeah, I mean I don't even know. We
should bring up names. But you know, like Jimmy Johnes,
great guy, spends a ton of money, but he has
Ryan Carter with him right everywhere he go, you know,
so there's like Casey doesn't have that where you know,
so there's there's I think there's different levels of guys
that can afford it. So we get back to that wealth.
But then guys that maybe you know how to do

(31:29):
it one percent on their own when they have to.
Whether that's a factor or not, I just know that,
like even like I I don't have the means. I
could maybe do it once or twice, you know, do
some of these governor's tags or raffle tags, and then
I wouldn't be able to retire. But we talked about
it and it got brought up on phone calls. You know,

(31:51):
we've tried to think about it. I got asked somebody's like,
do you have any way that you could data mine
you know, how many percent of like Pop and Young
or Boone and Crockett bowl in the record books like
the all time were killed on Raffler Governor tags. And
I don't, But it's a good question and we can
at least have a conversation around it. You were mentioning
the other day just or don't before the podcast, you

(32:12):
don't know of anybody outside of like personally around you,
outside of governor or Raffle tag holders that have killed
a foreuner inch bowl right on on that ground or
at home.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
I feel like I know like a lot of the
like a lot of in the industry, really good hunters,
you know, Ryan Lampers and such and folks like him,
you know. But and then I know a lot of
unsung hunters of people that don't don't do social they
don't do industry stuff, and really really really good hunters.
They don't have a four hundred inch bowl under the belt,

(32:43):
but they're just you know, working stiff guys. You know,
they're not they don't have a big checkbook.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
Yeah, and that Dave Graham that I've had on the podcast,
you know, probably probably one hundred episodes ago. You know,
he got the Idaho and the Heydays, and his dad
had all kinds of access because he was the appliance
or prayer man, right, and so he was hunting some
of amazing Idaho stuff. And that guy's got a ton
of bowls over three eighty that he won't talk about
three but he never broke I don't believe he's ever
broke that that magical four hundred inch number, you know.

(33:10):
And he was He's another one of those guys that, like,
I know, he knows how to hunt. I've got to
hunt with him down in New Mexico, you know. But
just like that, you see a guy that probably had
more opportunities than the best of the best to Idaho
had to offer, and couldn't, you know, muster up a
four hundred. You know, he's seen some but just could
never kill him. Yeah, it's just it's a tough, tough
feat and that kind of rolls into you know, And

(33:33):
and I'm gonna I'm gonna tell a little story on
on the wealth and and how you get access to
foreigner and twenty inch bowls. So twenty nineteen, the very
first outfitter tag I ever bought in Oregon. I was
hunting with Brian Sanders. I don't think he went on
that one. It was just us. And so we're hunting
and Brian's kind of a funny guy. He's kind of
always on his phone but not letting me see and

(33:54):
texting back and forth. And I've got a ten day hunt.
I know he's got a state wide take holder that's
got a governor's tag kind of that he's waiting to
find the right bull. You know, he's got guys out looking,
and uh so I killed my bull, you know, a
great three forty bowl. We had to go down to private.
All the bulls actually showed up down on Brian's place,

(34:14):
went down one hundred minimal pine tree flat, and I
killed my three forty bowl. We got it all taken
care of, and you could see Brian was like really
itchy to go check on some stuff. Next day, he
calls the state state tag holder in, they pay an
access fee, and they go kill four and twenty inch
bowl the next day. So that's where like this this

(34:36):
funding and wealth at times, that's an opportunity even if
everybody had that tag, whatever it may be. Like until
you can keep writing checks up to you know, or
that that bowls off limits for a guy like me. Yeah,
you know, and so so that you know there's there's
raffle tags, there's resources. We were in the TU canon

(34:57):
back in twenty fourteen on Charlie or kell Smith's tag,
you know up there Charlie, like, I didn't realize there
are the mountains are crawling with people because some of
these governor tags, whether it's legal or not, it's basically
legal guiding. There are the mountains are crawling with people
looking for that finder's fee for foreign and inch bowl
or some of these governor tags. And it's just like
I didn't realize, you know, until I started to figure,

(35:20):
you know, to understand or actually be in the know,
how how crazy it is and some of the bounties
that are put on on these guys finding bowls. So
people are out there doing it as a part time
job or you know, running trail cameras everywhere, and we're like,
what do you oh, we're just scouting for for governor's tag.
I'm like, oh my gosh, it's it's crazy, and like
it's I don't know what you call I guess it's

(35:42):
resources that most people don't have, right, Yeah, you know
me and you were fortunate that a lot of people
know us or know of us or want to help us.
And I feel like even what we get at times
is like maybe go to this area, like we don't
ever get put on. But it's like even that compared
to like, you know, somebody like, hey, I got a
bowl in this canyon at this time. Not saying that's

(36:04):
how this went at all, but it's just talking about
how wealth can sometimes lead to opportunities that aren't there,
and you know, maybe there's a little bit of jealousy
for people that they can't do it, you know, But
I would say it's available to everybody. You just have
to go out there and work and get the money
to some point. Right, Like, it's not saying it's off limits.

(36:25):
There's a lot of work and a lot of fortune
and you know a lot of luck involved on getting
yourself to a place where you can financially afford that.
So it is available to everybody, but there's some limitations
to get there.

Speaker 2 (36:36):
I would say, right, well, look at Chuck Adams, right
you read his book, and this book's published years ago.
A couple decades ago, probably, but you know out famous

(36:56):
outdoor writer, famous bow hunter, you know, legendary bowhunter. But
he you know, full transparency, troll, full transparency in his book.
You know, he's just like, you know, a lot of
people like say, he's wealthy, you know, that's why he
can afford to go hunt sheep and all these all
these different hont polar bears and all this stuff. But
he's like, people don't realize. He's like, I've mortgaged my

(37:18):
house several times, you know, taking out the equity for
these hunts. He's like, I make a pretty normal living
as an outdoor writer, but my priorities is these hunts.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yea.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
And so he's probably not making the best financial decisions.
If Dave Ramsey heard him, he'd be like, you're a fool.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Yeah, but his kids are going to be His kids
are going to be pissed off when they read the
will and figure out the bank.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, I don't know if that's the situation, but yeah,
but yeah, if you just love the huntnut your passion,
you might be able to put it all together and
make it happen, right.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
Right, But don't I don't know too many people that are
really willing to like mortgage their house to go hunt,
you know somewhere. I mean, that's that's next level.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
Yeah, so I wanted to jump in a little bit
to the advantage that these tags give somebody. And we
were talking about a little bit earlier, like, yeah, this
bull that was killed could probably have been killed on
a normal tag. Yeah, I believe the state of Washington.
I don't want to say the number of tags because

(38:23):
it could allude to the unit. Not very many tags
are given though, right, very very very few, pretty brushy unit.
You know, wherever this bull rutted. My understand I did
I know this bowl is being hunted on public private
prior to to ending up on the private. It's just

(38:45):
so these tags, it's easy for people to just say
this bull could have been killed with Yeah, that's that
is a fact. But the likelihood or anybody it's hunted
long enough knows that there's like circumstances that don't make
it like a very high probability you'd ever kill that
buy right, whether it lived on a private ranch or
it truly did live on public, or maybe it crosses

(39:05):
from two pieces of private and you're trying to hunt
like a little you know, corner these sort of opportunities.
There are advantages that that normal people, you know, without
a raffle or a governor's tag just don't have. And
there's no denying that. Right. You can start typically well,
at least in Washington state August first, or maybe that's Oregon,

(39:26):
maybe Washington September first, all the way to December thirty first. Yeah,
and with and with governor's tags, you never have to
put your rifle down if that's your meat. You know,
Casey killed this one with a bow. But if you
want it to, you can even have more of advantage
and never put your rifle down. You can literally, you know,
go out there during archery season and hunt right alongside

(39:47):
those guys at your rifle if that's that's what you
want to do. And then it does give, in my opinion,
an advantage at the back end of the season because
you if you have an early winner or a winner
or these bulls start to migrate out of their summer
range or their transition range and they're down into their

(40:07):
their winter range. I do feel they become more susceptible
to being comfortable, like the creature comforts of where's my food?
You know, they they literally just went from being able
to live anywhere in the world down to a small
section of lowlands. And you know, not only this bowl.
What two years ago, Dirk, we were talking the Washington
Raffle Tag Bowl, right, the giant that was four sixty

(40:31):
four to seventy once again killed on in the last
week of December. I believe, you know, had to wait
for enough snow to pile up for that bowl. And
I'm I do want to to add an asterisk to
this conversation. This is how I understand the story. So
I'm not saying this is exact fat. There was yet hurt.

(40:52):
There was a lot of snow in that picture, and
I do know about the time it was killed. You know,
it was later in the year that bowl had to
get down, you know, a little bit lower. So there
is there's there's you know, unlimited season, not unlimited, but
confined season that extends way outside of normal opportunity. And
then a lot of people are able to take advantage

(41:13):
over the potential early winter. You know, you're you're starting
to hunt all the way through December thirty first. I
know that bowl this year, I'm I know the Governor's
Tag Bowl was killed in that last week in Washington
this year. So there is no denying that some of
these bulls become more vulnerable or more susceptible to being

(41:33):
you know, being seen or located late in the year
when the snow forces them to be in certain areas.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah, absolutely, it's you know, they're down there, you know,
focusing on just staying alive at this point, you know,
as far as feeding, you know that they're not maybe
not being pursued by people or the predators they are
always looking for, but they're just trying to pack on
some weight after everything they've lost over the over the rut, you.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Know, yep, yep, yeah. And then at that time of
the year, there's no nobody out in the woods, right
you're it's you. And then you know you're the only
tag holder for a large chunk of the state or
you know, the whole state for some of these tags,
or half the state in Washington, it's just different. Those
those all aren't being bothered by anything but predators. At
that point, like no more human presence, they get comfortable,

(42:17):
they've got to live in a smaller area, and so
it just kind of yeah, there's an advantage. Do you
pay for that advantage. Yes, is it right or wrong?
Or you know, it's like once again, it's legal, and
we don't set up the season dates. So if the
season dates for raffles and governor's tags needs to be
what it is, then that I'm fine with it. There is,
but there is, like I think we need to talk
to the facts that they are more vulnerable, more susceptible

(42:40):
at that time of year right now.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
I would I wouldn't think. I would like to question
a little bit like some of these where these funds
are going, you know, in the spirit of conservation. You know,
that's how they spun, Like these these funds that folks
are paying for these governor tags or raffle tags. You know,
it's all all goes back to conservation. But I'd really

(43:03):
love to see an in depth audit to some of
those accounts of where that actually money is spent, where
the rubber meets the road back into conservation, back onto
where it hits the landscape of wildlife conservation. I'd like
to see that just to be like, Okay, yeah, we're
doing the right thing, stale or whole hold on, we
maybe maybe we shouldn't be doing.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
This, yeah, yeah, or like, you know, I'd love to
see a you know, similar out of that audit, like
how you know, for one hundred dollars in like how
much of it actually ends up on the ground or
does it all get cut up in red tape? And oh,
by the time we pay the administration and ninety percent
of it goes the wages and you know, fish and
wildlife stuff, then oh ten percent will actually go back

(43:42):
into to opening up some wintering range or planting some stage.
You know. It's like you know, like the Red Cross
kind of always gives there, you know, any any big foundation,
like oh, seventy three percent will make it back to
you know, on the ground, or ninety percent will make
it to the recipient, right, Like are we you know,
because that gets thrown out, like that's the first the
fence you see, Like look at how much money they're
putting into conservation. I'm like, yeah, it face value, it

(44:06):
looks like that, but you know, are we really getting
it to where it needs to get? You know? Yeah,
And there's I want to kind of wrap this up,
and you know, we could talk about it all all day,
but like I just at times too my own opinion,
Like I just sometimes love to watch animals. Like I've

(44:29):
said it on this podcast before, I root for the
animals sometimes, right, And at times there's like, man, part
of me would love for this bowl to breed every
cow and you know, and that in that county. Yeah,
and as are as genes going to show up and
and so like I said, I'm not trying to say
I wouldn't have killed the thing if I had the opportunity,
But like you know, cemetery bucks just don't get me excited.

(44:49):
But I love to look at him to my binoculars
and like, wow, that's a great example of the species,
right right, Like that's a school to look at and
I would love to see what he does next year.
And you know, I've got I've got big blacktails that
walk through my yards at times, and I don't shoot them,
and I can't stop my neighbors from shooting them at times.
But it's like I just I just love to watch
the deer do their thing in my yard at times,

(45:10):
like maybe I'm a softy, I don't know. Sometimes like
watching this elk, you know, just do its thing, getting
down to you know, where he's lived for the past
you know, you know, five six years and where he's comfortable, like,
I don't know. Once again, it goes back. Maybe I
should say it was legal and not get into that
touchy feely stuff.

Speaker 2 (45:31):
But right well, I think we all have our like
how would prefer to kill an elk or you know,
our our our dream hunt. I've I've been building points
in Arizona for years. You know I'm gonna I'm approaching
two decades in points in Arizona, and I could for
sure draw a late season tag somewhere. But to me,

(45:52):
in my in my eye, and people are like, dude,
you should just draw that late season tag. Oh it's great.
But in my mind, if I'm going to Arizona, that's
not the hunt I want. I don't want to go
there when it's the forest is quiet and it's cold,
and I'm just glass and bowls and sneaking up and
all that. I'm going there for the experience. I'm going
there for the screaming bowls, the rut. You know, I'm
looking for that particular experience. In fact, you know, here

(46:17):
in Idaho myself, like there's a there's a lot of
units that have a lot of elk that but it's
just not my cup of tea. I don't like that
kind of hunting. I'm gonna go hunt the kind of
places it's my kind of pretty and and hunt them
on the way I like to do it, calling them in,
calling them in, right I can. I've I've always said
the guys that are good at spot in stock kill

(46:39):
way more bulls than the guys that are calling them in,
and bigger bulls. But that's not the way I like
to do it, right. So yeah, so I get I guess,
you know, personally, that's not my cup of tea. How
i'd want to kill that built that world record bowl.
But I'm not gonna throw rocks. I mean, it was legal.

(47:00):
It's just my opinion.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yep. No, And that's that's how I'm it was legal.
We can all have our opinions. Do they matter? No,
I mean, at the end of the day, they're They're
just opinions. And and like I say, I I think
we should, you know, stay away from, you know, being
devisive as we can. There's just there's are some things
on this bowl, like I hopefully you know, i'd like
to congratulate Casey on his success and and you know,

(47:22):
bo On on his dad's success, and you know, it's
awesome to see. It's awesome that we get a chance
to see a bowl of that caliber. Who knows, maybe
next time one's killed, we won't get to see it
with all the you know, all the the the hate
that you know, I don't know if it's hate, but
you know, people people throwing shade. I just once again,
I'm not a life coach, I'm not a psychologist, but
I would just say, next time, Like I think if

(47:44):
it would have been worded different, well it could have
been in a completely different outcome. Maybe not as many
people would have been frustrated with the story. And you know,
calling whether it's your dad or not, the King of
l cunning. It's tough to define that, right because there's
no situation the same, no opportunity is the same, and
I think we can all argue that we definitely don't
have the same opportunity that Casey gets, right, you know.

(48:08):
And it was kind of funny. There's a there's a
twenty eight page post on one of the local forums,
you know, because it was killed here in Washington, so
everybody's talking about it and they're like, well, how do
you how are you the king elk hunting? Like did
we put an elk with like the same mental capability
inside of a fence a million times? And let everybody
who thinks they're the best elk hunter, like, go try
to kill it, and then what's our measuring stick? Like

(48:30):
the way the wind was that day? How fast you
killed it? Like, there's no way because all of our
all of our stories are different, all of our opportunities
are different, right, And I think maybe we'll close with
this like that might be the biggest detriment to social
media and hunting in general, now that everybody can talk.
Like back in the day when Grandpa hunted, right, I think,
like you didn't know what the hell somebody killed two

(48:52):
states over. I had no idea that there was a
giant bowl killed on the wall or a buck on
the Wallsat's front. You had no idea that something was
killed in Arizona unless you a magazine.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
You didn't even know there was out there.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
You literally, yeah, you you just hunted the hunt. And
I think that that like find your own why, right,
and just stick to it. Don't be jealous. Like know
that whoever posted the picture of a giant bowl that
was their their idea. Maybe they locked into it. Give
them a high five, SA, congrats, and then go on

(49:22):
your way, like don't judge them by your by your book,
or don't judge them by what you're after, right, And
I like, I say, I feel like I'm preaching or
a psychologist right here, but I feel like it's important
for all of us for hunting's future to like we've
got to find a way to to like get by
judging what everybody does, like, oh, they use a muzzle order,

(49:43):
but it's not traditional, like Matt doesn't count. Or oh
they they're a crossbow hunter and I'm a long bow hunter,
like doesn't get Like, no, just do it because you
love it and because that's what hunting was. If you
didn't have a damn Facebook page or an Instagram page
or you know, maybe if you read a magazine article,
you'd see one person killed with a cross bow, like

(50:03):
you wouldn't know this happens, like social media good or bad.
It's like you've got to be able to like cope
with you cope with your feelings, and just accept it
for what it is. Like those people would be doing
that with or without social media. Maybe maybe not. I
don't know. I feel like I'm just rambling now and
I'll getting the point across.

Speaker 2 (50:21):
But yeah, well back to your point of king of
bell hunting. I mean, it's so like in his opportunity
of world, it is in his opportunity of bail to
spend that kind of money and hunt those kind of places. Yeah,
you know that maybe, yeah, he is a king that
he's gonna take that crown with that, with that measurement. Right,
But I know a guy that nobody knows he's killed

(50:44):
more three hundred plus inch bulls with a rifle in October,
you know, on rifle season in the most wolf infested
unit in Idaho. He's killed more of those big bulls
anybody I know, more than all the old old timers.
In fact, his dad shot a three eighty bowl and
that wolf infested unit here two years ago. I would

(51:06):
challenge that hit between him and his dad.

Speaker 1 (51:07):
I would.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
I would almost say he and his dad are the
king of l cunning like they have they have, they
have really completed a feat in that country. And then
to pull a three eighty bull out of there that
nobody shot at a three eighty bowl in that in
that area in thirty forty fifty years, I'm like, so Yeah,

(51:29):
it's like there's the situations just so different like to
just say to say that, and I think that's why
people were so incensed or mad about that.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
So yeah, because you can't define it. And you know,
you mentioned your buddy, I know who you're talking about,
but you're like, we've talked about Dave Graham, We've talked
about my our buddy John Davis up there in Libby.
You talk about guys like Ryan Lampers and Brian Barney
like they they they've got the skill and then know
how they've proven it over and over and it's like, well,
if you, let's say Ryan Lampers had a bottomless checkbook, man,

(52:00):
I almost would struggle to ever bet against him like
doing the same thing, if not better, Right, Like I
I don't I want to, I don't want to get
into this. You know maybe, but it is like you
can't define that because it is so unique to everybody.
And and I guess we can kind of close with that.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Do what you love, you hunt the way you love,
do the do do the best you can, and root
for other hunters, but in the end, just just be happy, like,
don't throw rocks at each other. I'm a huge like
I'm always saying, like, like, man, we are so divided,
and everybody's got something to say, you know, about about anything,
like it don't matter what it is. You know, you

(52:40):
see all these crazy posts I somebody uh posted bo
had put like a little video like Casey Brooks and
chot this big bull and kind of starts talking about it,
and then somebody you know remixed it and then put
in their two cents on on Instagram. So I kind
of commented a little bit of something about not really
about that bowl, but I addressed one of the other
comments he'd made there. Oh man, you know people are

(53:04):
people are commenting on that and then telling me I'm
a I'm a jackass and for this and that. I'm like, well,
you know, but what about this? What about that? Then
I feel like me, I should just shut up and
like I shouldn't even comment, right I should, But sometimes
you just like I want to put my two cents
in there to get people thinking, yeah, but let's not
hate each other. Geez, come on, no name calling, no hate,

(53:26):
let's just all think about it. And but you know,
we all take our own path in life.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
Yep, yep. No appreciate having you on your Like I say,
it was a topic once again I didn't want to
comment on, so I figured let's just have a podcast
talk about it, and I say, we'll end with congrats
to Casey and bow On on that success, and uh yeah,
just go out and hunt the way you love to
and try to keep your comments to yourself, like it
just it's not a good look, if it's legal, if

(53:53):
it checks out box, and just keep it to yourself
and move on.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yep, absolutely, we'll see you next time.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Guys, All right, take care of them and