April 24, 2025 • 57 mins
Pop icon, composer and legendary beauty Rufus Wainwright joins Chelsea to discuss why his music is the subject of scrutiny of the world’s leaders, how to hold failure and acceptance in the same hand, how to keep a glimmer of hope when you’re a tortured artist, and all about his new work featuring Jane Fonda. Then: A hot tub romance heats up. A journal-reading boyfriend blames the victim. And the sands of time have one caller wondering if she should call her mother.
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Get tickets to Rufus’ Dream Requiem with Jane Fonda here!
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Order a signed copy of Chelsea’s new book HERE!
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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at DearChelseaPodcast@gmail.com
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Executive Producer Catherine Law
Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Doug has diarrhea lives in Canada. My friend Cynthia texted
me this morning saying she felt like Doug was depressed
when I left, and I said, I doubt it, and
then she said, I know he really misses you. And
then she goes, actually he hasn't eat his food all day,
and I go, oh my god, oh my.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
God, he came out of me. Fuck well.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
At first I thought he does love me, he does
love me, and then I was like, wait a second,
I had food poisoning, and I was like, did he
get food poisoning?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
He had diaryea on her couch and on her carpet.
So I was like, okay, I'll be back sooner than
later to get him.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
She I was like, we can replace all of those things,
we can replace her houseplace. She goes, he's so high,
he's got such energy, and I go, just put him
outside while he's sick. He's happy to stay outside and
sleep outside. He preferred so fucking hot with all that hair.
And she's like, okay, but just you know, like bears
come through the backyard and I was like, oh. I
(00:56):
was like well, I mean, he'll probably find his whole family.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Those are his ancestors, you know.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
What I mean.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
It's so true.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
He is basically a bear. He is a bear.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So I don't know how long he's gonna last in Canada,
but I have people.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Long enough to come back to La.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, he might not get in with the fucking way
immigration is going. Who knows if they'll stop him at
the border. I mean, he is black. Who knows they'll
make up some.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
Fucking excuse, you know what I mean? There are his papers,
I know, well, I do have his paperwork. Actually, ironically
I could. I should probably sell that to somebody. Well,
not sell it, give it to somebody. Listen to me.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I would just like to say that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's early in the morning today and I got myself
a parking spot all by myself.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I paid the major, I did it effectively.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And it wasn't even in the normal place.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It wasn't in a normal place. I parked up the street.
We're at a studio. I went by my real house
this morning to check on things. There's a lot of
drilling going on.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I was telling Brad this morning, I'm like, I don't
even know what exactly's happening at the house, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Nobody asks me anymore, and nobody should. Nobody asked me
what's going on with my house. If you're listening to
this and you want to rent a big house in
Los Angeles for a lot of money, hit me up
on DMS, because yeah you could.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I'm gonna rent that house out great until I make.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My money back, and I'll live in Whistler or Spain
or I don't know, Guantanamo Bay, you know where, whatever,
whatever place welcomes me exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
If people can rent that, if they're fans of yours
or RFK Junior, I mean it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I just yes, this is a what is it a
cautionary tale? Cautionary tale?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
True?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I had one great house building experience and I got
very confident, over confident, and then I now have another
house building experience and I am will never ever build
anything again.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, speaking of Trump's cabinet, we have one of Trump's
favorite people.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
Cabinet.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
They shouldn'ven be called a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's like, that's a fucking thing, that's an item you'd
find in my house that doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
It's not a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's like a fucking broken toaster is his cabinet? Yeah,
we have somebody who has gotten, who has had it
friction with Trump on today. He's an amazing singer, songwriter,
composer and legendary beauty.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Please welcome Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Hi, good morning, Hello, Hello, Hi, oh oh hi, Rufus.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Oh wow look at you. You're like me way early.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yeah yeah, no way early.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But and for a musician, no less. I mean, this
is what is happening.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Well, I have a fourteen year old child.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yes, I know about that, and so you have to.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Wake up early to breastfeed.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Yeah, yeah, I have to be on call basically twenty
four to seven for any kind of horrific situation.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Absolutely, I understand.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah. Is that better?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You look very thin? You look really thin? On this
Is that what you said you're going for?
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Well, I was more going for Marlene and Dietrich.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
But then we'll work well Finn and Marlene Dietrich Rufus.
First of all, well, there's a lot to talk about, Yes,
dream Requiem, which is what we're here to talk about.
But first I wanted just to mention a couple of things.
I know that the Trump campaign used your song Hallelujah,
your your Leonard Cohen cover Hallelujah, And you were pissed
about that, So I was curious about that too, like
obviously your agents and managers or whomever get involved, right.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
I mean I was pissed, but I think above pissed,
I was more just sort of flabbergasted and completely you
know shocks in the sense that just because it was also.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
So weird how it was used, Like it wasn't just
used as.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
A rally, you know, ending thing where people are always
shaking hands. He turned it into this sort of you know,
group dance flash prayer moment of you know, seeking forgiveness, and.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
And that just was Yeah, it was a horrified, shockedness.
And then I was pissed, and then.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I'm shocked and horrified. I'm first of all, I'm
not Catholic or religious in any way, shape or form.
I'm shocked and horrified when they use any sort of
religious backdrop or there are people praying with him. I
find that so offensive to real religion, Like I might have.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
I have a little bit of a scoop for you, though,
Oh great, regarding this, I don't think I've talked about
this yet, but and it's sort of out there a
little bit. But so that happened right and then and
then and this is before he won the election.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Uh or yeah, I guess he won the election.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
He won.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
We're living in a we're living in hell. And answer
your previous question, I'm in Canada right now.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
I'm in Canada right now for real.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I mean, well, you're Canadian. I'm trying to become Canadian.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
Okay, are you? Are you really in Canada where.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You I'm in Whistler, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Okay, okay, we're both we're both in exile and probably
will remain so for a few years.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
But but what happened is that he won.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
He won the election, and then one of the first
visitors that he had was Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister
of Canada, our ex prime minister, And so he went
down and I'd met Justin a couple of times, you know,
on grinder and I'm just kidding. But anyways, so then
I got a call a few days later from Justin Trudeau,
(06:22):
the Prime minister, telling me that he said, I guy
had this funny story for you, And so I answered
the phone, Yes, mister Prime minister, make me laugh. And
he said that when he was down in mar A Lago,
they were sitting together and at one point Hallelujah came
up on the sound system in the ballroom, but it
was it was Andrea Bucelli's version of Hallelujah the song,
(06:46):
at which point Trump turned to Justin Trudeau and said,
you know Rufus's version, right, and and then Justin Trudeau said, oh, yes,
I know, I know Rufus's version, but you have to
give Jeff Buckley some credit because he's the first person
to cover the song, at which point I'm on the
phone with Justin Trudeau, like, wait a minute, he brought
(07:08):
up the Jeff Berkele like I started to get whatever.
I was a bit riled internally.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I also find it a bit surprising that Trump is
aware of different covers of that song.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
I know, no, well he is.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
But then so then Justin said to him, yes, but
you have to give Jeff Buckley some some credit, at
which point Trump said, okay, well, maybe twenty minutes later,
Trump walked up to Justin and said, you know, Rufus's
version is really the best version, at which point Justin went, yes,
(07:39):
it is the best.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
Version so so so in terms of like Hallelujah.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Versions, I'm a total Trumpianda that's about it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, well I'm god. I mean what an endorsement. Trump
believes that yours is the best version of Halloween. Yeah
you got that, I guess.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah, No, that's the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Look, I've been seeking that for years and it's all
I've ever wanted, really is to be acknowledged as the
greatest singer of Hellelujah.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
Forget my operas, forget my children.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So let's talk dream requiem, because I know that you have.
Jane Fonda is going to is she narrating it? Is
that the proper terminology?
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Yes, what it is is that I many years ago
I discovered this amazing poem by Byron called Darkness, and
he wrote it in eighteen fourteen, which was this year
that there was this incredible insane earth not ealth quake.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
What's another thing that we're about to.
Speaker 9 (08:36):
Have economical volcano volcano okay, volcanic volcano that went off,
that erupted, that went off in Southeast Asia, and the
entire world was dark for a year.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
There was no season, and everybody thought the world was ending.
It was the year that they wrote that. Mary Shelley
wrote Frankenstein's it was like the most kind of gothic.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Oh wow, yeah, and that was eighteen fourteen.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
You said, yeah, it's the most got the gear except
for this year. We we know eclipsed that. But so
then you wrote that poem, so as I fell in
love with the point. It's all about the end of
the world and it's about like ecological collapse. And then
I was composing this requiem mass and I decided to
put them together. And I was maybe going to compose
(09:21):
the music to the English words, but English is crap,
and unless it's like rock and roll or rap, it
sounds terrible if it's sung operatically. So I quickly, you know,
shifted it and and said, oh, we'll have a narrator,
which in the end has turned out to be an
amazing kind of trick.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
And I don't want to say trick.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Ploy where, you know, because the premier in Paris, and
we had Meryl Streep there as the narrator, and our
recording is available on Warner Classics. And yeah, Jane is
doing it in La. Have you heard anything about how
she got the job? Tell us, well, I i'd look
Dan and Dane and I have I know your friends
(10:02):
too up? Yeah, yeah, no, I I I mean I
I'd run into her over the years here and there,
but we never quite you know, bonded. But we were
at this I had just done the Requiem in Paris
with Meryl, and we were at the Hammer Gala in
La and I went there and I was with my
husband and Yorn and we arrived and I saw Jane
(10:25):
and we kind of ended up in just the same corner.
We just started talking and it's and it started to click,
you know, we just started to give. As they say,
it's a give or jibe.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
I don't know. I'm so white anyways.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think I think it's jibe, but I'm also white.
Who fucking knows.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Okay, we were doing something cool and it was weird,
but uh so we're talking. And then I said to her,
and I started talking about the Dream Requiem, and I said,
you know, we did it. We did it in Paris
with Meryl and and actually it's coming to La. We
don't have a narrator yet, but it's going to come
to Disney Hall. It's with the Master Corral and and
(11:00):
and at the end of that little speech, Jane turned
to me and she said, rufus, I'm doing it. I
was like, excuse me. She's like, no, I'm gonna, I
will do it with you. She immediately hut herself, which
I mean I was. I was overjoyed also a little shocked.
And then it's just from there on. You know, we've
been hanging out a lot, and she's come to a
(11:20):
few of my shows and she's just so like when
she wants something or loves something.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, she's very precious.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Yeah yeah, and so I'm just I don't know, I
felt very It's been one of the great great things
in my life, in the midst of all of this
darkness and stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
So when is this performance?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Performance is in la It's May the fourth at Disney Hall.
It's also with the Master Correll, which is probably the
greatest choir in America.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah. I know who they are.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, I know they're amazing. And look, it's something you know,
I don't. I don't in any way. Look as much
as Trump likes to think that he rules the world,
I kind of would like to say, well, maybe Trump,
you exist. Because I wrote this Death Mass and it's
premiering at the perfect time.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
So You're just the backdrop to my music. So I'm
kind of trying.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
To turn it around because because it is eerie, how
you know, just the whole you know, the apocalyptic dark.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
You know, it's a perfect thing to be putting out
right now. That's all I want to say.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's also you know, I was I don't know
where I read this, what book. I read this in
probably my favorite book, Letting Go. But it's about being like,
you know, even in times of strife or when the
world is a dark place, there are people who could
create art and people who can thrive within the darkness
and not off of the darkness. I'm not talking about
like to the tech billionaires on all of that. I'm
(12:41):
saying people who can thrive, who makes something happen even
amidst all the darkness and continue to thrive.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Well, I am very much fueled, as you said, not
fueled by the darkness. But I am a how can
I say this? I am attuned to that sensibility I work.
I've always loved opera. I've always loved you know, written
ballads and very intense music.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
So I love so yes, artistically, I'm in.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
I've been a very good place. But it was funny
when you bring up the tech bros. Because they have
no artistic sense whatsoever. I mean, what's so kind of
horrific about that whole situation is that their idea of
art is like them dressed as the Mona Lisa or something,
you know, with like a banana in the background. You know,
(13:29):
they just have no aesthetic sense or anything. So they're
not even I don't know, like like artistically, they cannot be.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yes, So it's up to me, right right, well artists,
you know, yeah, to actually show up.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
Yeah, And they think they're artists. They think they're artists,
they think that they're.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They think they're artists though I mean they're.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
Clearly they think they're everything.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah right.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
They think they're sexy too, which is pretty sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, that's the most revolting part the the sex. The
assumed sex appeal is so revolting. I mean, I can't
think of anyone, any group of guys that are less
fuckable than all of those guys. Talk to me about
Dream Requiem, So tell me how you would. First of all,
I hate this question when I'm asked how I would
to describe one of my shows. But I'm gonna ask
(14:18):
you without saying those words.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
I look, I'm a big, as I said before, classical
music fan, and I but the first piece that really
got me going when I was thirteen was Verdi's Requiem
the Composer of Verity.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
He wrote this amazing requiem.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
It's one of the great ones, and I just became
obsessed with it and it sort of began my whole
journey in that In that realm, it was a little
freakish for my dad, especially, he's not a big opera
fan to see, you know, his thirteen year old son
in the corner in the dark with headphones on listening
to you know, Day of Wrath and stuff like that.
So I but I stuck it out, or everybody stuck
(14:57):
it out. And now you know, I've written you know,
several classical works and also pop works and all that stuff,
and now I just feel like it's time to give
back to that. I will say, are you Catholic at all?
Or you're probably anti kit you hate?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm not anything at all.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Were you brought up Catholic or.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I was brought up Jewish? Actually you're brought up.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Okay, sorry, Okay, there you go, but I am not anything.
I'm not even baptized Catholic. I was brought up in
a Catholic environment. My mother was Catholic, and I went
to Catholic school. And how was that Well, you know,
it wasn't great in a sense, but it was really
they really ingrained it and you in the sense that
(15:41):
I was a little shocked when I went to compose
it and I was working with all of those prayers,
you know, the Latin mass.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Wow, just how fast.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
It came out, and how how it's just like wired
into into me, for better or for worse, probably more
for worse in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
That's how I am with state capital those are to me.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
Sounds nice.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
So anyway, so I so I just started composing it
and then.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
And it just came out really fast, and and it's
one of these things.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Where the idea came and then I so, okay, that
sounds like a nice idea. I like to see to
see if anybody is interested. And we asked Paris first,
and then within two months there was ten commissioners, ten
cities all over the world that wanted to do it.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
There was a real kind of.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Need for it. It was right after COVID. So I
think people were whatever, they were pretty.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Gloomy, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
So, so I think they could relate to that. The
other thing, which I don't do you know anything about
the dog situation.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I don't know anything about anything.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Okay, well, okay, well this is this is interesting because
you know the requiem is it's dedicated to two individuals.
The first first one is dedicated to Verity the composer,
because you know of that. But then the second dedication
is to Puccini, whose most people would think is an
op composer, which he is. But Puccini and I say this,
(17:03):
and the thing used to be our little dog. We
had a dog named Puccini. And actually within the poem
Byron's poem there's Byron adored Dogs, and then the poem
there's a dog that dies in the middle of the poem.
It's it's kind of the most touching moment of the
of the piece, or one of one of the many
touching moments.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
And and so and we.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
My husband and I, we had a little dog named Puccini,
and so we dedicated it also to the to the
little dog. So yeah, so so for there's a big
dog element to the to the piece as well for
dog lovers.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
So if you hate opera, but it's.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
A whole opera, right, it's not just one piece.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
No, it's why it's one piece.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
It's one only one piece.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's as Yeah, it's a mass and it
starts with some of the poem and then it goes
into the into the mass, like the choir sings all
the religious mass stuff and then the poem is is
recited by the narrator and at a certain point they intertwined.
But it's it's seventy five minutes, like there's no intermission
or any thing. It's just there. You're in and your
out and yeah, so it's.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
I mean I've been fighting years and years and years
to make it into you know, the classical world, and
it seems like I've done it with this piece of music,
which is very exciting. Of course, right at the time
that I did that, I wrote a musical in London
called Opening Night, which totally flops. So so I kind
of the Broadway world kind of or the West End
(18:29):
world in London kind of, you know, gave me the boot, right,
as you know, the classical world opens, So it's always
it's been an interesting journey.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
You always gotta have the door shut down on you
at some point.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Well, a door shut down on you right before a
different door opens.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you can never have just
the door open.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And it's all thattliche because or well an adage I said,
I suppose because it's true. I mean, that does happen.
So talk to me about it artistically. How that how
that makes you feel, like when you are rejected and
then you are accepted into a different world, Like, how
do you balance those emotions?
Speaker 6 (19:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
No, I look when I did the musical Opening Night,
which which by the way, we did record and we're
releasing it the soundtrack album, and it's the songs are great,
and I think the piece was actually kind of great.
It was just a little out there for it was
based on the John Cassavetti's movie Opening Night. Anyways, So
I was so depressed when that whole thing collapsed and
(19:26):
to the point where you know, I had to go
on medication and stuff like.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
It was very it really, it was pretty dark.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
I mean, there was a lot of other things happening,
but that wast you know, kind of took me down.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And has that happened to you before professionally creatively.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
It's happened to me once before. But but I but
I didn't. I didn't kind of seek treatment for it.
I was I just sort of nut white knuckled it
through the whole thing. But this time I just needed
a little bit of help and and I got it,
and it was great, you know, I was able to
come back. But right as that was happening, you know,
(20:00):
the Requim was premiering in Paris, and I had you know,
Meryl Streep there sitting next to me, listening to it
for the first time, and I was able to appreciate
how special the whole thing was and how lucky I
was to be in this situation.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
But yes, there was this gnawing sort.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Of sense which sort of limited me in my joy
at the time of my greatest triumph.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Right, So, but let's talk about that, because I think
that is very relatable to you know, not only people
in the industry, but I think people you know a
lot of things. You get good news or you get
bad news, and it's hard to kind of pick yourself
up from that.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And like, when you.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Look back at that time, do you think that there
was anything you would have done differently or that you
will do differently in the future if something like that
were to happen again.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Well, I mean, look, I'm speaking of religions and stuff.
I mean, I don't want to do it, but I guess,
you know, you have to be sort of Buddhist about
it and say, you know, you have to let go
of that attachment and that kind of idea of being
you know, fulfilled.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
By your your ego or whatever. And so that's probably
the wise way to do.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
It, is just to not try to feel nothing a
little bit in a sense or just being you know,
very low key about it.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
But you know, look, then I wrote.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Ten songs in my depths, in the depths of my
sadness that I'm now going to put on a pop record,
and and so it's also for an art I think
that's actually more what I struggle with. It's just and
that I've realized now in my fifties, is that there
is this kind of machine that I've created where you know,
I get depressed and then I write songs and then
(21:41):
I feel better. But then I got to get depressed
or to write a song, and then in order you know,
it's this cycle that that you know, certainly creates a
lot of material and but it is a little bit
diabolical at times.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yes, I'm sure, I'm sure it is. I mean, that's
the life of an artist typically, right.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
And it's a good I mean, I think we're fortunate.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
But but but when I see people, young people, especially
when they're like, oh, I want to be an artist,
and you know, my first.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
Comment will usually say, well, you're not gonna you can't.
You can't tell me you want to be an artist.
You have to be an.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Artist, like like you just you are an artist and
good luck.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Yeah, not easy, it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No, it's not like anyone really takes care of you
as an artist emotionally. And I'm not sure in what
world you are taking care of emotionally unless it's by
your spouse or you know, family. But at a certain point,
when you go through all of the highs and lows
of having any career, a public career, also, you start
to learn to rely on yourself for your emotional well being.
(22:53):
You're like, no one can help me with this. Yes,
you can talk to a therapist, and of course you can,
you know, go on metation in like incremental times or
whenever you need it whatever, but no one takes care
of you. And like I think as an artist, there's
this attitude at least I had this attitude younger, like
when things didn't go right, like you fix it?
Speaker 6 (23:13):
You do?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Do you do it?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And like, yes, well that can be many people's responsibilities
in your life. You actually just have to take the
emotional burden of everything. It's your name on it, it's
your failure or success, and then it's your pressure.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah, and then it's and then in the end it's
your glory when it comes to fruition. But at that
glorious moment, there's always a little bit of there's always
a chink in the armor. Oh it's uh yeah, yeah,
which is it's the way it is.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It would be great to figure out a way and
I'm good at this sometimes, but not full proof. To
welcome the failure, to welcome the pain, you know, like
bring it on, because every time you have a failure,
we all know that something a rainbow is around the corner,
like something happens.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Well, I mean I have a little thing to do
with that, which I kind of relate to Yang and
Yang where anytime I'm happy anytime I'm somewhat euphoric, I
just always say, look, I'm going to take a little
piece of this and hide it somewhere so that when
I'm in the dark, I can, you know, pull it
(24:19):
out and use it as a kind of flashlight.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
So I saw it, but I think it's something you
have to cognitively.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Do and practice.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
All right, we're going to take a break and we'll
be right back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write into us at
Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. We'd love to
hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on.
This week, we're specifically looking for questions about surrogacy and
fertility issues, So if you've gone through IVF or are
planning to, please write in at Dear Chelsea podcast at
gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
And we're back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, we're going to take some callers. Rufus, Are you down?
Are you ready to Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, okay, Well, before we get to advice, Rufus, I
have to tell you that my husband, who's the engineer here,
who was floating around here on the zoom.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You are actually the reason that we met. Oh really,
in two thousand and five, I went to go see
your concert at Ravina.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Oh wow, August in two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Five, and I was going with a friend. We met
at the friend's house ahead of time, and who should
walk out but this streamy, tall guy. And here we
are twenty years later.
Speaker 6 (25:32):
Oh that's so sweet, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I saw you Rufus at some small place in Santa
Monica a few years ago, maybe not a few, maybe ten.
It was really fun though. It was only like there's
a small room with like one hundred people and everyone
was getting down.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
It was I think it was it was mccabes or something.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yes, yes, yes it was.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Those are those are those are some Those are great shows.
Those are fun shows.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Well, our first question is just an email, not a call.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So this question comes from Tina. Subject line is son's
sexual preference.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You're Chelsea. I've been a fan of your podcast for
a number of years. I love what you stand for
and the advice that you give on your podcast. I
listen every morning when I walk my dog before work.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm a forty seven year old.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Single mom with three children who are all grown. I
like to think of myself as very open minded and
progressive when it comes to most things. I've always made
it very clear to my children that whatever road they
choose and their sexuality is their choice and free from judgment.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And then this happened.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
My twenty one year old son told me tonight that
he's dating a trans person, a woman who has been
transitioning to be a man. I maintained complete composure and
acted cool, but inside I was really just feeling a
little bit of turmoil.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
I love that honesty. I maintained composure.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, my son is the most beautiful, sweet, kind and
best person ever, and all I want for him is
to be happy. I've always known or suspected that he
was gay or otherwise, but I guess I'm just scared
for him, but at the same time so proud of
him for just love having another human, regardless of their
sexual identity or preference.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I guess I'm asking for help.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
On navigating through our extended family, some of which, including
my sister and her husband, are very conservative. My mama
bear instincts are out, and I think I'm feeling more
protective than judgmental for him, but also feeling a little.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Bit confused of my own feelings about the situation. Many thanks, Tina.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I think this is easy, Tina, Like, I don't think
you have to make any proclamations or announcements to your family,
like your extended family, like first of all, get to
know your son's new love interest and spend time with them,
and like and and just keep opening your heart and
your mind because you're going to learn lots of things
that you didn't know about, and that's going to really
(27:40):
normalize the situation. And you kind of calling attention to
it too, even though I understand you're being a protective
mama bear because I'm a mother and I know what
that feels like I'm more of a father, But like
putting an exclamation point on everything, I don't think is helpful.
Like I think you should just act with grace and normalcy,
like this is normal when I meet the person, whether
(28:02):
or not they realize that their trans or not is
inconsequential to you, Like that's not something that you need to.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Like preface or tell them before.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Let them deal with the situation and when it comes around,
I would suggest just going I didn't think that was
information that was necessary because you're protecting by telling your
sister and her husband, who are more conservative, you're protecting them.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
You're not protecting your son.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
You're protecting their feelings and making sure they have all
the cards. They don't need all the cards. This isn't
their love life. This is your son's love life. So
all you can do is show up for him in
a really responsible and present way.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Rufus, what do you think?
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Well, you know, I wanted to.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also
want to sort of praise her for even being you know,
open to stuff, because my mother might do. This was
back in the eighties when she found out I was gay.
She had a you know, a cigarette in one hen
and a scotch and the other and she said, rufus,
don't tell me something I don't want to hear. Oh,
(29:00):
So I was, you know, that was that was so
I'm someone who, you know, whenever I hear a parent
who's you know, really trying to do the right thing,
it's so important and should be really really celebrated because
unfortunately still, I you know, I just hear these horror
stories with parents who are just out of their mind,
you know, when this stuff comes up. And so you're
(29:21):
being the dad, I'm being the mom.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, well perfect, we're perfectly, we're parenting perfectly. I also
think like open, open, open, Just keep your mind open,
like you're going to learn things. You're going to be
surprised by the things you learn, and just be open
hearted and open minded.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
Be proud of yourself for being open.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, be proud of yourself, and just keep thinking like,
you know, I understand the protective aspect, but like we're
not there yet.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Don't worry about your son's Your son's happiness is paramount
to anything else.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Like, just be open to that and open to understanding his.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
World, and that way, you're going to set the foundation
for him to be always comfortable coming to you, talking
to you about these things.
Speaker 9 (29:59):
Talk.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You knew about these issues and you want to just
you know, the last thing you want to be is
shut out from any of that. So yes, just move
forward with grace and open heartedness.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And I will also say, just like a tiny asterisk,
I think she did a really good job just like
containing any fear or confusing that she might imposing herself.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, composing herself.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
But one tiny astreiss Tina is just on the sexual
preference language.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You know, nowadays we say more.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Like sexual orientation, because it really is part of somebody's identity,
not a choice really that they're making. And I think
once you get to know this person, you know, I
think the only scary thing is having not ever met
a trans person. Once you get to know them, you're like, oh,
they're just a person, you know, they just act like
everybody else.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
They're just That was a and a sort of end
of my mother's story, which is kind of nice and
maybe it softens it a bit, as you know. When
she was when I finally did come out to her,
we were in Paris and she went to Notre Dame
Cathedral and.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
She was brought up cast.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So she went and she prayed, and she claims that
she got a message from somewhere that says, you know,
Rufus is like any other person.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
You just have to treat him like any other person.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
And it is that message I think that comes out
eventually the world's as people.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
And that's it.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, with that message that needs to be transmitted to
the entire world.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yes, yes, that a human being is a human being,
regardless of anything else.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Well, our next question comes from Amber. Amber says, Dear Chelsea,
I met someone in the coolest way. We met in
a hot tub in Michigan. I live in Washington and
he lives in New York. He's my best friend and
he totally gets me. I never thought i'd meet someone
like him. I know he is the one. I have
a great career in Washington and a fantastic community and friends.
(31:50):
He has two kiddos and not the best job prospects
where he lives. I'm so torn because I love my life,
but I also love him. What do I do? It's
important to know. I'm turning forty this year and never
been married. I want to marry this man hopeless in Washington, Amber.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Hi, Amber, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
Hi.
Speaker 10 (32:09):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Okay, So you fell in love in a hot tub
in Michigan. You don't want to leave Washington because your.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Whole life is there. Yeah? And what state is he in?
Speaker 10 (32:20):
He's in New York?
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Oh, Okay, so you'd have to move to New York.
What part of New York.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
Like rural northern New York like close to the Canadian border.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh okay, well that is a pickle because we're not
talking about any major city here.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Yikes.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean that could be good to be close to
the border for other reasons.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
How far is it from Montreal?
Speaker 10 (32:42):
Well, we actually went to Toronto, like last month.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Oh oh was there Toronto? Okay?
Speaker 10 (32:46):
Okay, yeah, like he drove, he drove like four hours
to Toronto and then I.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Saw four hours to Toronto. Okay, that is that is far?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I mean listen, if you're in love and you know
it and you feel it and you're forty and you're
ready to take a plunge for somebody, then you gotta
do what you got to do. I wouldn't want to
move there, but I'm not in love with anyone that
lives there.
Speaker 10 (33:11):
That is so true. But like you know, I have
like this whole community here. I bought a house, my
friends are here, my job is here. Although well I
have a job in a few months, I don't know
because it's grant funded.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Lovely sure.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And now I assume that like he can't move because
of the kids, right, like a custody situation.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
How old are the kids?
Speaker 10 (33:32):
Eleven and two?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Uh two?
Speaker 10 (33:36):
Well?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
That that's another doozy. You're gonna raise a two year
old with him?
Speaker 10 (33:41):
I mean I used to work with kids. I love kids.
I just I don't want kids. And then he doesn't
want anymore. He's had of p stectomy. It's fantastic, Like
I don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, he sounds like a good, good option minus the legitigo.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Are you interested in and started being in a child's
life and in the major waven though it's not your own?
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Is that interest you or totally?
Speaker 10 (34:02):
I have a lot of with kids, and I love
their kids and I love being like the best friends auntie,
you know, but I don't want to be their mom.
They have moms.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
They're good.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Okay, So if you lose your job in a couple
of months, say that happens, you know, I hope it
doesn't happen. But say that does happen, Does that would
that make it easier.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
For you to move to New York?
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I mean it would.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
It's just I think it's not even more, not even
about the job or the location. It's just when you're
at my age, it's harder to you know, make friends
and build this community. And I have like built this
amazing friendship in a community of people here, and it's
taken a while to build that, right, and then you
(34:46):
go to rural New York and you don't know anybody,
it's going to be really hard to make those friendships.
But also he's like my best friend, so there's that,
and I could always visit and fly and I have
that ability.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
And you can't just keep it long distance. For the
time being.
Speaker 10 (35:06):
We are, Yeah, we're making plans. We're seeing each other
like every other month or so. We talk every night,
and we've kind of built like little things that are
special to us for being a long distance so I could.
I told him, I said I could do this for
about a year. But then that's it. I'm done.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
What do you when you say you built little things?
What does that mean? Like, what's an example of built
little things?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Yeah, so, like every morning I send him a picture
of what I'm wearing to work that day, just like
every day, I.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Always your dick pic. It was our fun actually, but
only from sometimes.
Speaker 10 (35:42):
I've never wanted them before actually, but now I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Like, oh, I'm still waiting to meet the guy that
makes me want to see a dick pick.
Speaker 10 (35:51):
So I never I never thought I would be that
way either, Chelsea, seriously, but he's it.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Is you are in love.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
Is there a way for you to go there for
like two months or three months, like an extended vacation
so you have a sort of a sense of what
a long just being there over like a week is,
Like I wish.
Speaker 10 (36:10):
I'm gonna The nice thing is I'm actually going to
go next month to like see where he lives and
see the neighborhood and just see what it would be
like for like the weekend. Because of my job, I'm
a program director and they need me in the office
to handle my staff. It'd cool if I had like
a remote job and could kind of be bi coastal.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I think that you should definitely a if you're
okay with this for a year, great, take a year,
Take a year, go see his neighborhood, and the next
time you're going there and spend the weekend there. But
you have to plan a time where you're going to
spend a longer duration of time there in this year
that you're talking about, And if you do lose your job,
then that opens you up to get a job where
you can be by coastal.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
So then you can have the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Because is there a situation where you would keep your
house in Washington and then also kind of go back
and forth if you had a by coastal job.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
I mean, that's what you mean, and right, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 10 (37:01):
I could totally manage that. I have a dog, but
I have a place where she could go that she loves,
so like I could, I could make it work for
a couple of years if I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Yeah, I think that's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I wouldn't make any rash decisions just yet, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Just start spending time there.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Spend as much time there as you can so you
can really get a feel for the place and see
if that excites you, Like, are you going to be
okay living there? Hopefully you can just be by coastal
because I think so many long distance relationships are successful
because of the distance. I know, we all want to
jump into each other's arms and everyone wants to shack up,
but it's also there's something to be said for missing
each other, for keeping the fire burning, you know, for
(37:39):
not living with somebody all the time and getting used
to all their shit and them throwing wet towels on
the fucking dry bed. All of that stuff, you know
what I mean, takes kind of the romance out us and.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Start to resent their dick pics.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Yeah, we're going to start to resent his dick pics.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
But because how many how many months have you guys
been seeing each other now as we speak.
Speaker 10 (38:01):
So that's it's complicated because I've known him for a
year and but when we've been talking and seeing each other,
but we've kind of like made it official like last
month sometime.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Okay, yeah, so give it some more time. Please just
be smart about it. You're forty years old, You're not
gonna I just want you to look at that community
that you built, you know, in Washington, like as a
very sacred thing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Like a lot of people yearn for that. A lot
of people don't have that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So I really want you to make sure you like
that's more valuable, in my opinion, in your life than
anything or any love affair.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
That is your community and that is your group.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So just be very respectful of that and don't toss
it away lightly.
Speaker 10 (38:39):
Oh no, I wouldn't. Yeah, No, I have been so
lucky and blessed with my friendships and the friends that
I have, They've they've really stepped up, Like I've had
surgeries and they've stepped up to help with my dog
and me and just I just feel so lucky to
have what I have here. And that's why it's not
so easy as it might be for some people to
be like, oh, it's not a big deal, I'll just go,
I'll just move. And it's like I have everything here,
(39:03):
you know.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Okay, Well just keep that in mind with everything, right, Like,
put that at the top of your list. That is
at the top of your list. Even your love affair
is number two. Yeah, so remember that.
Speaker 10 (39:15):
I will. Yeah, No, that's super helpful to hear. I
really appreciate it because I've been really stuck. But I
will say, Chelsea, you are the reason I'm not married.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that kind of feedback.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
Oh.
Speaker 10 (39:30):
Like I always thought when I was like in my twenties,
I had to you know, get married and let a
man take care of me. And I realized now I'm like,
I take care of myself. I can pay my own bills,
and I can buy my own house, my own car,
and I can be the breadwinner.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, rufus and I were just talking before you came
on about taking care of ourselves emotionally as artists, right,
And I think this is also a good kind of
point of interest to talk about, is.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
That women are We're all.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Able to take care of ourselves in every very possible way,
yet we're always looking for someone to lean on for
whether it's financially or emotionally or spiritually, like we want
someone who knows more than we do or that we
can go to when we have the capabilities within us
to take care of ourselves in every way. So I
think that's it's a great reminder, and I think a
(40:18):
lot of women who are listening today are going to
respond to that and think about are they taking care
of themselves?
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Have they built a life that they want for themselves?
Because we all have the ability to do that.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It's about going to a place that you love, you know,
building your community, building your friendships.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
That does take time.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It doesn't happen instantly, not for everyone anyway.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
And certainly I'm sure not for you. Right. Did it
happen right away or did it take time?
Speaker 10 (40:43):
I definitely like took time where I realized, like, oh
I can buy a house, I can I can do
it on my own. And I phenomenon since I was
like sixteen, So it took a while to like figure
out that I didn't need a man to like rescue me,
that I could just rescue myself and I can do
it all and it will be fine. And it's been great.
I love my life, like I said, you know, and
(41:05):
I don't need someone to pay my bills because I
can pay them, you know. I can do it all
and I don't need anybody else. But it's the it'd
be nice to have someone by my side. Yes, I
don't need anybody.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Great.
Speaker 10 (41:20):
It's just like having that best friend that's just walking
alongside you in life.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Absolutely, and they can walk alongside you, you know, across
the country. It's not like you're across the world for
the time being anyway. So right, you know, walk just
picture each other walking, Picture him and you walking towards
each other at a very slow pace.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Okay, well that sounds like you've got a plan.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
You're gonna wait a little bit, You're gonna wait a year,
figure it out, spend some.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
More time there, and we're in agreement. We're all in
a cord.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Okayyy Okay, great, love it.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Thanks for calling him.
Speaker 10 (41:56):
Thank you, you want to have a good day. Bye.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Well, she was probably the most sensible person that we've
had call in for advice ever.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Yes, An, FYI I want someone to pay my bills.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I know I'm at the point where I would also
like that too, rufus. Let's fucking be honest. I've been
paying my bills and a lot of other people's bills
for a really fucking long time, and I would like
to commingle funds with another very wealthy person.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Well, our next caller is Katie. Katie is thirty five.
She says, you're Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I know I'm not the only one in this situation,
but it sure feels that way sometimes. I have one sibling,
my twin brother, who's married and they've blessed me with
a nephew and a little niece, so that relationship factors
into my question. Because it's just my brother and I.
I haven't spoken to my mom or dad. He's more
just collateral damage since I can't get to him without
her being a part of it. Since November twenty twenty one,
(42:50):
my relationship with my mom has been complicated for a
long time, but the final straw was how she interfered
with my relationship with the love of my life and
interracial relationship she knows fully accepted.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
We've since split for.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Other reasons, but it doesn't change how she acted. After
giving her too many chances, I finally cut contact, and honestly,
my life has been better for it. Here's the problem.
She just turned seventy, and I know time isn't infinite.
I feel at peace. Was staying no contact with the
idea of getting that call one day where it's too
late makes me wonder while I regret not trying, am
(43:23):
I just grieving the mother I wish I had? Or
should I make some sort of move before it's too late?
Or is this just one of those painful realities you
have to sit with. Would love to hear your take, Katie.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Hi, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today. First
of all, I find that kind of behavior, like any
sort of racist, misogynist kind of anything that falls under
that umbrella, to be kind of unforgivable. You can learn
and make mistakes and come back that and that's fine,
But if that's just the way you're going to be,
and that's your attitude, so I think that what you
(43:53):
could do to just get your feelings down on paper
is to write, like, now that you're not in the relation,
should ship to.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Let her know? Does she know that you're not in
the relationship anymore?
Speaker 6 (44:04):
Yeah, she did.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
My brother let them know.
Speaker 8 (44:06):
But a little bit of a plot twist, we have
gotten back together, so it's a.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Little still the issue.
Speaker 10 (44:13):
Oh okay, great, Yeah, which is great for me. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (44:15):
I mean, I'm so happy and my brother and his
family are really supportive of us, and so, you know,
I'm just I don't know, I just feel like I'm
in this weird I was going along fine and then
all of a sudden, it was like I just when
she turned seventy, I was just like, oh my god,
I had this weird pressure, like I need to do something.
I don't know, But I'm so curious what you think
(44:36):
about if it's okay to just stay. I mean, if
I had it my way, I would just continue the
way I've been continuing. It's been really good for me
to have no contact. But I'm like, am I missing
an opportunity for growth here?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
I think you have an opportunity to write down how
that made you feel, and to write down kind of
like now that you're looking back at the situation, regardless
that you got back together, that's great.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I'm glad you guys worked it out. But just pond
reflection now that you've had time. How long has it
been since you you said November twenty twenty one, right,
so that's been enough years to have a reflection. I'm
sure she's had some thoughts about it too, So I
think it'd be nice to write a letter, like send
her an email or a written letter however you see fit,
just expressing how that made you feel, how your own
(45:20):
mother could turn against you based on the color of
someone's skin, not in a vitriolic way, but just in
a confounded way.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Like you were my mother.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
You were supposed to love me unconditionally for the rest
of my life and support me and guide me. And
to find out that my mother had these feelings about
someone makes me question everything I was raised with. You know,
this makes me question the kind of person I am.
I believed in you, I believed in you.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
And Dad, and the fact that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
This issue in this day and age, is keeping you
from me, like however you want to frame it, but
like use that as a kind of measuring stick to
really just get all of your thoughts out so that
they're not weighing on you so much, and put it
over to her, send her an email with no expectations.
Speaker 8 (46:07):
Okay, but yeah, I mean you hit the nail on
the head as far as my feelings about Yeah, like
I have mommy issues, but like as an adult, I
feel like it's very it was so jarring when that
all happened.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And yeah, and also to maybe to posit a question
like I would also love to understand how you can
do you still feel this way? Do you really feel
differently about your daughter? Like, help me understand how you
were raised and what you were made to believe, so
that I can gain a better understanding of where you
are right now. Throw her some questions that she can
(46:41):
actually have to answer for herself, and then she's really
gonna have to contemplate how do I explain feeling this way?
Speaker 6 (46:49):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I love that advice.
Speaker 8 (46:50):
It seems so on the nose to like write a
letter and that's usually how you know. I but that
makes a lot of sense, and I think it would
get I think there's some leftover feelings that have come
to the surface and I really like that idea of
just writing it down. I don't even need to send
it to her, but at least having yeah, you know,
hitting it on paper.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
I really like that idea. Put it on paper.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And if you do send it to her then and
then and you never hear back from her, then that's
your answer. And if you do and you never know,
you never know when people in their old age what
kind of like realizations they come to and and places
that they go to. You might be surprised, but don't
expect anything. Just just try to exhaust what's inside of
you with relation to losing your mom in the way
(47:30):
that you have, because it's kind of unforgivable, you know,
like that is really hurtful.
Speaker 6 (47:34):
Yeah, I would just say that. And this is more
for way down the line from now. You're obviously a young,
young person who leaves compared to me, so there's you've
got some time on your hands, which is great, but
but it's.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
One hundred and seven by the way.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Yeah, and I'm a dead composer. So anyways, but I
you know, I have a lot of friends who are
and I'm you know, fifty one to admit it, but
I have friends who are older now in my age,
and who who are still who have not spoken to
their parents in many, many years. And there's a distinct
(48:13):
difference between those who eventually and this is not in
terms they never got in touch with their parents again,
you know, like it was over.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
Like if that happens.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
And I don't believe you have to you know, even
see your parents if you have problems with them, but
you kind of have to forgive them at some point
in your heart, you know, however you can, you know,
I just see a lot of older people who like
never really who kind of held onto this resentment towards
their parents that abused them, and it was like it
(48:44):
really I would just be mindful of that down the line.
And when I say forgive, I mean it's not even like,
you know, however you can or just to let them
free or something from tormenting you, because if it goes
on any further, I hope it's settled to more than that,
but just weigh down the line, you have to let
go of it at some point, I feel personally.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, that's the thing to say about forgiveness as an
inside job sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, And that's part of the process of healing yourself
is just to exhaust those thoughts and those emotions and
even when they come up for you, even though it
may feel like, oh, like, I can understand a dynamic
where you your partner doesn't understand how you or or
you know, you not understanding your mother's reaction or having
difficulty with it with relationships, or your partner, Like, I
(49:32):
can understand that that might be weird too, to even
be like, oh god, it's so disappointed, or I miss
my mom or whatever however your feelings might present, but
like really feel those feelings. You know, it's very valid
to be to be emotionally harmed by an event like this,
It is, that's very valid. So, like, the healing component
is just really important to like really try to always
(49:55):
continue to heal. It's not just a one and done.
It doesn't just happen in one sitting or one letter.
It's a process of forgiveness and forgiveness, and every time
these feelings come up, forgive her in a way where
you don't have to communicate and be hanging out with her,
but forgive her for her own ignorance, for the way
she was raised, for whatever her parents did to her.
Speaker 8 (50:16):
You know, yeah, no, I love this advice, and it's
very validating.
Speaker 10 (50:20):
I think, just hear it.
Speaker 8 (50:21):
You know, sometimes I'm like, am I being dramatic? But
it feels it's like you know, which I think is
a normal response in these situations. It's for me to
feel like I'm overreacting, but no, it's it has been
unbelievably devastating and difficult. And then you know, now that
I'm feeling better and have healed a lot, I think,
you know, I'm like, maybe I should dive back in
(50:42):
that pool, but yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
Don't think that's the right way to go about it.
Speaker 8 (50:46):
I love that idea of just writing it down. And also, Chelsea,
I appreciate this is the worst thing that's ever happened
in my life. I've never would have pictured this, and
I don't have that idea of you know, it's.
Speaker 6 (50:57):
Not just one and done.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Is really helpful to remember that it's a process.
Speaker 10 (51:01):
Yes, I'm going to just get I'm not gonna.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
Just wipe it away and make it go away.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Well, everyone always thinks when they're going through something like,
oh I thought I was over that. Why is this
hitting me again? Why is this hitting me again? It
was just a week ago. I thought for sure, I'm
done with this. That's the way grief happens. That's the
way like emotions work. They kind of slowly drizzle out,
but you have to give them the proper amount of
respect and attention when they do come up, right.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
So Yeah, Also, just to address the emotions that you're
feeling about, feeling selfish or feeling like.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
You're being too extra.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I think that when you're in a relationship with someone
like this who's not caring for your feelings, some people
like this will injure you and then treat you like
you're being too sensitive because you're bleeding and like you
made a decision to move farther away from the source
of those injuries.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
And I think that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Just remember like, it's not your fault for being too sensitive.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
That's that's the one.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
That's the one a lot of people use, is like
hyper sensitive sort of thing. You made the right choice
for you at the time, and there might be a
different choice in front of you.
Speaker 9 (52:03):
I love that.
Speaker 6 (52:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Yeah, yeah, thanks for calling in.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Yeah, thank you so much, you guys.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah for sure, Katie.
Speaker 11 (52:09):
Bye, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're
going to be right back, and we're back with Rufus Wainwright,
who has a big show coming up in La on
May fourth.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
Dream Requiem. It's called Where's the show? Rufus.
Speaker 6 (52:25):
It's a Disney Hall downtown.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
That's such a beautiful venue.
Speaker 6 (52:29):
No, I'm very excited about it. Yeah, very excited.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
How does one rehearse for that? Do you go in
or earlier that day and rehearse?
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Oh no, there's about there's about three days of rehearsals
with the orchestra and the course, not a ton of
time because it's so expensive. The great thing about Disney
Hall though, with me in this project is that I
had composed the piece Dream Requiem, but it wasn't quite finished,
and I went to see a concert beforehand at Disney Hall.
(52:57):
And when when I got in there, I know they
have one of the most amazing organs in the world
at Disney Hall. It's this insane instrument that it looks
great and it sounds incredible. And I sat there looking
at the at the stage and at the organ. I
was like, oh my god, I have to have an
organ in my piece. That I need an organ, but
(53:20):
so so I uh so. I then went back and
composed the last little bit of the requiem with that
in mine, and and now you know, on May the fourth,
I'm going to get to actually hear that organ play
in the piece.
Speaker 6 (53:31):
So whatever, I just feel very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, that's gorgeous, beautiful. Yeah, okay, well awesome.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
Well we do we have anything else, Catherine? Or are
we good?
Speaker 1 (53:42):
I mean, I do have one little quickie if you
want to, let do a quick close out for sure.
All right, fantastic. So our last question today comes from Casey.
Casey says, you're Chelsea. I'm twenty eight and in a
new relationship with a guy for three months. Recently, my
boyfriend read my private journal without my permission, and in
my journal I had written some things that weren't complimentary
(54:03):
about him. I love him very much, but also sometimes
I just need to vent in my own private journal.
After reading my journal, he confronted me about it, and
instead of apologizing for reading it, he demanded I apologize
for what I wrote, saying that what I did was
much worse. Again, all I did was write personal thoughts
in my private journal.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
I ended up apologizing because I was so caught off guard.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
But now I feel weird about it, and I feel
like I don't have a safe space to write my
personal thoughts anymore. I also feel like I can't trust
that he won't read my journal again. Additionally, after this happened,
he went and told his friends and other people about
what I wrote, which felt really embarrassing and invasive because
I also wrote about some personal things I was going through.
Is this a big red flag or am I being dramatic? Casey, No,
(54:46):
that's a big red flag.
Speaker 4 (54:48):
Huge.
Speaker 6 (54:49):
You gotta get far away from this person.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, now that's an invasion of privacy, Like that is
a reason to actually end a relationship. Yes, you can't
go through other people's private things. You just can't do that.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yes, And I mean like to blame you for just
being able to that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Absolutely, he's first of all, if you read someone's like
you don't, that's supposed to be a secret. And then yeah,
and then he said double it's like a double whammy.
He did that, and then he wants to be mad
at you about it.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
No, and then he tells his friend and then he
tells his friends about it, which is it's like a
triple thing.
Speaker 4 (55:22):
Yeah, exactly, It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
You're writing, where are you supposed to express yourself if
you if it's not a safe place to write in
your journal. Yeah, this guy's no, that's a red flag.
Break up with him as soon as you can. Problematic
for sure. Okay, Rufus, thank you so much for being
here today. It was great talking to you.
Speaker 6 (55:40):
And yes, it's great to see you again.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
Yeah, and I hope I see you in person sometime soon.
Speaker 5 (55:44):
Yes, Yes, we'll try try to come on May the fourth.
If you're a figure out and Jane's going to be
amazing made the fourth.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
I would be there. I would come if I'm in La.
I have to look at my calendar and see if
I'm in town on Meg.
Speaker 4 (55:55):
In maya okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Bye bye, do do do do do drum roll, Catherine please,
Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour. So I'm
coming to obviously find.
Speaker 4 (56:13):
A husband abroad.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
I need to get the health out of this fucking country,
and it's not as easy as you think. So I'm
coming to Rekuvik, I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to
the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May
and June, I'm coming to Oslo. Stockholm to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow,
(56:36):
New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin,
Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 4 (56:43):
I'm coming abroad is abroad.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
That sounds like fun. I'm going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I I know I want to go see me abroad
and there all be there all be excellent.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure
to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you today?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Doug has diarrhea lives in Canada. My friend Cynthia texted
me this morning saying she felt like Doug was depressed
when I left, and I said, I doubt it, and
then she said, I know he really misses you. And
then she goes, actually he hasn't eat his food all day,
and I go, oh my god, oh my.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
God, he came out of me. Fuck well.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
At first I thought he does love me, he does
love me, and then I was like, wait a second,
I had food poisoning, and I was like, did he
get food poisoning?
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
He had diaryea on her couch and on her carpet.
So I was like, okay, I'll be back sooner than
later to get him.
Speaker 4 (00:35):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
She I was like, we can replace all of those things,
we can replace her houseplace. She goes, he's so high,
he's got such energy, and I go, just put him
outside while he's sick. He's happy to stay outside and
sleep outside. He preferred so fucking hot with all that hair.
And she's like, okay, but just you know, like bears
come through the backyard and I was like, oh. I
(00:56):
was like well, I mean, he'll probably find his whole family.
Speaker 4 (01:00):
Those are his ancestors, you know.
Speaker 5 (01:01):
What I mean.
Speaker 6 (01:02):
It's so true.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
He is basically a bear. He is a bear.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So I don't know how long he's gonna last in Canada,
but I have people.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Long enough to come back to La.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, he might not get in with the fucking way
immigration is going. Who knows if they'll stop him at
the border. I mean, he is black. Who knows they'll
make up some.
Speaker 7 (01:18):
Fucking excuse, you know what I mean? There are his papers,
I know, well, I do have his paperwork. Actually, ironically
I could. I should probably sell that to somebody. Well,
not sell it, give it to somebody. Listen to me.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
I would just like to say that.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
It's early in the morning today and I got myself
a parking spot all by myself.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
I paid the major, I did it effectively.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And it wasn't even in the normal place.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
It wasn't in a normal place. I parked up the street.
We're at a studio. I went by my real house
this morning to check on things. There's a lot of
drilling going on.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
I was telling Brad this morning, I'm like, I don't
even know what exactly's happening at the house, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Nobody asks me anymore, and nobody should. Nobody asked me
what's going on with my house. If you're listening to
this and you want to rent a big house in
Los Angeles for a lot of money, hit me up
on DMS, because yeah you could.
Speaker 4 (02:06):
I'm gonna rent that house out great until I make.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
My money back, and I'll live in Whistler or Spain
or I don't know, Guantanamo Bay, you know where, whatever,
whatever place welcomes me exactly.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
If people can rent that, if they're fans of yours
or RFK Junior, I mean it's great.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
I just yes, this is a what is it a
cautionary tale? Cautionary tale?
Speaker 4 (02:28):
True?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I had one great house building experience and I got
very confident, over confident, and then I now have another
house building experience and I am will never ever build
anything again.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Well, speaking of Trump's cabinet, we have one of Trump's
favorite people.
Speaker 7 (02:48):
Cabinet.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
They shouldn'ven be called a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's like, that's a fucking thing, that's an item you'd
find in my house that doesn't work.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
It's not a cabinet.
Speaker 2 (02:56):
It's like a fucking broken toaster is his cabinet? Yeah,
we have somebody who has gotten, who has had it
friction with Trump on today. He's an amazing singer, songwriter,
composer and legendary beauty.
Speaker 4 (03:09):
Please welcome Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Hi, good morning, Hello, Hello, Hi, oh oh hi, Rufus.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
Oh wow look at you. You're like me way early.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yeah yeah, no way early.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
But and for a musician, no less. I mean, this
is what is happening.
Speaker 6 (03:30):
Well, I have a fourteen year old child.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yes, I know about that, and so you have to.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
Wake up early to breastfeed.
Speaker 5 (03:38):
Yeah, yeah, I have to be on call basically twenty
four to seven for any kind of horrific situation.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Absolutely, I understand.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
Yeah. Is that better?
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You look very thin? You look really thin? On this
Is that what you said you're going for?
Speaker 6 (03:57):
Well, I was more going for Marlene and Dietrich.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
But then we'll work well Finn and Marlene Dietrich Rufus.
First of all, well, there's a lot to talk about, Yes,
dream Requiem, which is what we're here to talk about.
But first I wanted just to mention a couple of things.
I know that the Trump campaign used your song Hallelujah,
your your Leonard Cohen cover Hallelujah, And you were pissed
about that, So I was curious about that too, like
obviously your agents and managers or whomever get involved, right.
Speaker 6 (04:21):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I was.
Speaker 5 (04:23):
I mean I was pissed, but I think above pissed,
I was more just sort of flabbergasted and completely you
know shocks in the sense that just because it was also.
Speaker 6 (04:36):
So weird how it was used, Like it wasn't just
used as.
Speaker 5 (04:39):
A rally, you know, ending thing where people are always
shaking hands. He turned it into this sort of you know,
group dance flash prayer moment of you know, seeking forgiveness, and.
Speaker 6 (04:51):
And that just was Yeah, it was a horrified, shockedness.
And then I was pissed, and then.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Yeah, I'm shocked and horrified. I'm first of all, I'm
not Catholic or religious in any way, shape or form.
I'm shocked and horrified when they use any sort of
religious backdrop or there are people praying with him. I
find that so offensive to real religion, Like I might have.
Speaker 5 (05:16):
I have a little bit of a scoop for you, though,
Oh great, regarding this, I don't think I've talked about
this yet, but and it's sort of out there a
little bit. But so that happened right and then and
then and this is before he won the election.
Speaker 6 (05:33):
Uh or yeah, I guess he won the election.
Speaker 8 (05:36):
He won.
Speaker 2 (05:37):
We're living in a we're living in hell. And answer
your previous question, I'm in Canada right now.
Speaker 6 (05:43):
I'm in Canada right now for real.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
I mean, well, you're Canadian. I'm trying to become Canadian.
Speaker 6 (05:48):
Okay, are you? Are you really in Canada where.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You I'm in Whistler, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (05:52):
Okay, okay, we're both we're both in exile and probably
will remain so for a few years.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
But but what happened is that he won.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
He won the election, and then one of the first
visitors that he had was Justin Trudeau, the Prime Minister
of Canada, our ex prime minister, And so he went
down and I'd met Justin a couple of times, you know,
on grinder and I'm just kidding. But anyways, so then
I got a call a few days later from Justin Trudeau,
(06:22):
the Prime minister, telling me that he said, I guy
had this funny story for you, And so I answered
the phone, Yes, mister Prime minister, make me laugh. And
he said that when he was down in mar A Lago,
they were sitting together and at one point Hallelujah came
up on the sound system in the ballroom, but it
was it was Andrea Bucelli's version of Hallelujah the song,
(06:46):
at which point Trump turned to Justin Trudeau and said,
you know Rufus's version, right, and and then Justin Trudeau said, oh, yes,
I know, I know Rufus's version, but you have to
give Jeff Buckley some credit because he's the first person
to cover the song, at which point I'm on the
phone with Justin Trudeau, like, wait a minute, he brought
(07:08):
up the Jeff Berkele like I started to get whatever.
I was a bit riled internally.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I also find it a bit surprising that Trump is
aware of different covers of that song.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
I know, no, well he is.
Speaker 5 (07:18):
But then so then Justin said to him, yes, but
you have to give Jeff Buckley some some credit, at
which point Trump said, okay, well, maybe twenty minutes later,
Trump walked up to Justin and said, you know, Rufus's
version is really the best version, at which point Justin went, yes,
(07:39):
it is the best.
Speaker 6 (07:39):
Version so so so in terms of like Hallelujah.
Speaker 5 (07:43):
Versions, I'm a total Trumpianda that's about it.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Yeah, well I'm god. I mean what an endorsement. Trump
believes that yours is the best version of Halloween. Yeah
you got that, I guess.
Speaker 6 (07:55):
Yeah, yeah, No, that's the Yeah.
Speaker 5 (07:57):
Look, I've been seeking that for years and it's all
I've ever wanted, really is to be acknowledged as the
greatest singer of Hellelujah.
Speaker 6 (08:06):
Forget my operas, forget my children.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
So let's talk dream requiem, because I know that you have.
Jane Fonda is going to is she narrating it? Is
that the proper terminology?
Speaker 5 (08:19):
Yes, what it is is that I many years ago
I discovered this amazing poem by Byron called Darkness, and
he wrote it in eighteen fourteen, which was this year
that there was this incredible insane earth not ealth quake.
Speaker 6 (08:34):
What's another thing that we're about to.
Speaker 9 (08:36):
Have economical volcano volcano okay, volcanic volcano that went off,
that erupted, that went off in Southeast Asia, and the
entire world was dark for a year.
Speaker 5 (08:48):
There was no season, and everybody thought the world was ending.
It was the year that they wrote that. Mary Shelley
wrote Frankenstein's it was like the most kind of gothic.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
Oh wow, yeah, and that was eighteen fourteen.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
You said, yeah, it's the most got the gear except
for this year. We we know eclipsed that. But so
then you wrote that poem, so as I fell in
love with the point. It's all about the end of
the world and it's about like ecological collapse. And then
I was composing this requiem mass and I decided to
put them together. And I was maybe going to compose
(09:21):
the music to the English words, but English is crap,
and unless it's like rock and roll or rap, it
sounds terrible if it's sung operatically. So I quickly, you know,
shifted it and and said, oh, we'll have a narrator,
which in the end has turned out to be an
amazing kind of trick.
Speaker 6 (09:41):
And I don't want to say trick.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
Ploy where, you know, because the premier in Paris, and
we had Meryl Streep there as the narrator, and our
recording is available on Warner Classics. And yeah, Jane is
doing it in La. Have you heard anything about how
she got the job? Tell us, well, I i'd look
Dan and Dane and I have I know your friends
(10:02):
too up? Yeah, yeah, no, I I I mean I
I'd run into her over the years here and there,
but we never quite you know, bonded. But we were
at this I had just done the Requiem in Paris
with Meryl, and we were at the Hammer Gala in
La and I went there and I was with my
husband and Yorn and we arrived and I saw Jane
(10:25):
and we kind of ended up in just the same corner.
We just started talking and it's and it started to click,
you know, we just started to give. As they say,
it's a give or jibe.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
I don't know. I'm so white anyways.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I think I think it's jibe, but I'm also white.
Who fucking knows.
Speaker 5 (10:39):
Okay, we were doing something cool and it was weird,
but uh so we're talking. And then I said to her,
and I started talking about the Dream Requiem, and I said,
you know, we did it. We did it in Paris
with Meryl and and actually it's coming to La. We
don't have a narrator yet, but it's going to come
to Disney Hall. It's with the Master Corral and and
(11:00):
and at the end of that little speech, Jane turned
to me and she said, rufus, I'm doing it. I
was like, excuse me. She's like, no, I'm gonna, I
will do it with you. She immediately hut herself, which
I mean I was. I was overjoyed also a little shocked.
And then it's just from there on. You know, we've
been hanging out a lot, and she's come to a
(11:20):
few of my shows and she's just so like when
she wants something or loves something.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
Yeah, she's very precious.
Speaker 5 (11:26):
Yeah yeah, and so I'm just I don't know, I
felt very It's been one of the great great things
in my life, in the midst of all of this
darkness and stuff.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
So when is this performance?
Speaker 5 (11:36):
Performance is in la It's May the fourth at Disney Hall.
It's also with the Master Correll, which is probably the
greatest choir in America.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Yeah. I know who they are.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, I know they're amazing. And look, it's something you know,
I don't. I don't in any way. Look as much
as Trump likes to think that he rules the world,
I kind of would like to say, well, maybe Trump,
you exist. Because I wrote this Death Mass and it's
premiering at the perfect time.
Speaker 6 (12:05):
So You're just the backdrop to my music. So I'm
kind of trying.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
To turn it around because because it is eerie, how
you know, just the whole you know, the apocalyptic dark.
Speaker 6 (12:16):
You know, it's a perfect thing to be putting out
right now. That's all I want to say.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, it's also you know, I was I don't know
where I read this, what book. I read this in
probably my favorite book, Letting Go. But it's about being like,
you know, even in times of strife or when the
world is a dark place, there are people who could
create art and people who can thrive within the darkness
and not off of the darkness. I'm not talking about
like to the tech billionaires on all of that. I'm
(12:41):
saying people who can thrive, who makes something happen even
amidst all the darkness and continue to thrive.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:49):
Well, I am very much fueled, as you said, not
fueled by the darkness. But I am a how can
I say this? I am attuned to that sensibility I work.
I've always loved opera. I've always loved you know, written
ballads and very intense music.
Speaker 6 (13:05):
So I love so yes, artistically, I'm in.
Speaker 5 (13:07):
I've been a very good place. But it was funny
when you bring up the tech bros. Because they have
no artistic sense whatsoever. I mean, what's so kind of
horrific about that whole situation is that their idea of
art is like them dressed as the Mona Lisa or something,
you know, with like a banana in the background. You know,
(13:29):
they just have no aesthetic sense or anything. So they're
not even I don't know, like like artistically, they cannot be.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
Yes, So it's up to me, right right, well artists,
you know, yeah, to actually show up.
Speaker 6 (13:45):
Yeah, And they think they're artists. They think they're artists,
they think that they're.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
They think they're artists though I mean they're.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
Clearly they think they're everything.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah right.
Speaker 6 (13:55):
They think they're sexy too, which is pretty sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Well, that's the most revolting part the the sex. The
assumed sex appeal is so revolting. I mean, I can't
think of anyone, any group of guys that are less
fuckable than all of those guys. Talk to me about
Dream Requiem, So tell me how you would. First of all,
I hate this question when I'm asked how I would
to describe one of my shows. But I'm gonna ask
(14:18):
you without saying those words.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, No.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
I look, I'm a big, as I said before, classical
music fan, and I but the first piece that really
got me going when I was thirteen was Verdi's Requiem
the Composer of Verity.
Speaker 6 (14:33):
He wrote this amazing requiem.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
It's one of the great ones, and I just became
obsessed with it and it sort of began my whole
journey in that In that realm, it was a little
freakish for my dad, especially, he's not a big opera
fan to see, you know, his thirteen year old son
in the corner in the dark with headphones on listening
to you know, Day of Wrath and stuff like that.
So I but I stuck it out, or everybody stuck
(14:57):
it out. And now you know, I've written you know,
several classical works and also pop works and all that stuff,
and now I just feel like it's time to give
back to that. I will say, are you Catholic at all?
Or you're probably anti kit you hate?
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Yeah, I'm not anything at all.
Speaker 6 (15:14):
Were you brought up Catholic or.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
I was brought up Jewish? Actually you're brought up.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Okay, sorry, Okay, there you go, but I am not anything.
I'm not even baptized Catholic. I was brought up in
a Catholic environment. My mother was Catholic, and I went
to Catholic school. And how was that Well, you know,
it wasn't great in a sense, but it was really
they really ingrained it and you in the sense that
(15:41):
I was a little shocked when I went to compose
it and I was working with all of those prayers,
you know, the Latin mass.
Speaker 6 (15:47):
Wow, just how fast.
Speaker 5 (15:49):
It came out, and how how it's just like wired
into into me, for better or for worse, probably more
for worse in a lot of ways.
Speaker 4 (15:58):
That's how I am with state capital those are to me.
Speaker 6 (16:03):
Sounds nice.
Speaker 5 (16:05):
So anyway, so I so I just started composing it
and then.
Speaker 6 (16:08):
And it just came out really fast, and and it's
one of these things.
Speaker 5 (16:10):
Where the idea came and then I so, okay, that
sounds like a nice idea. I like to see to
see if anybody is interested. And we asked Paris first,
and then within two months there was ten commissioners, ten
cities all over the world that wanted to do it.
Speaker 6 (16:25):
There was a real kind of.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Need for it. It was right after COVID. So I
think people were whatever, they were pretty.
Speaker 6 (16:31):
Gloomy, yeah, and.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
So, so I think they could relate to that. The
other thing, which I don't do you know anything about
the dog situation.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
I don't know anything about anything.
Speaker 5 (16:41):
Okay, well, okay, well this is this is interesting because
you know the requiem is it's dedicated to two individuals.
The first first one is dedicated to Verity the composer,
because you know of that. But then the second dedication
is to Puccini, whose most people would think is an
op composer, which he is. But Puccini and I say this,
(17:03):
and the thing used to be our little dog. We
had a dog named Puccini. And actually within the poem
Byron's poem there's Byron adored Dogs, and then the poem
there's a dog that dies in the middle of the poem.
It's it's kind of the most touching moment of the
of the piece, or one of one of the many
touching moments.
Speaker 6 (17:21):
And and so and we.
Speaker 5 (17:24):
My husband and I, we had a little dog named Puccini,
and so we dedicated it also to the to the
little dog. So yeah, so so for there's a big
dog element to the to the piece as well for
dog lovers.
Speaker 6 (17:35):
So if you hate opera, but it's.
Speaker 4 (17:37):
A whole opera, right, it's not just one piece.
Speaker 6 (17:40):
No, it's why it's one piece.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
It's one only one piece.
Speaker 5 (17:43):
Yeah, yeah, it's as Yeah, it's a mass and it
starts with some of the poem and then it goes
into the into the mass, like the choir sings all
the religious mass stuff and then the poem is is
recited by the narrator and at a certain point they intertwined.
But it's it's seventy five minutes, like there's no intermission
or any thing. It's just there. You're in and your
out and yeah, so it's.
Speaker 6 (18:05):
I'm very excited about it.
Speaker 5 (18:06):
I mean I've been fighting years and years and years
to make it into you know, the classical world, and
it seems like I've done it with this piece of music,
which is very exciting. Of course, right at the time
that I did that, I wrote a musical in London
called Opening Night, which totally flops. So so I kind
of the Broadway world kind of or the West End
(18:29):
world in London kind of, you know, gave me the boot, right,
as you know, the classical world opens, So it's always
it's been an interesting journey.
Speaker 6 (18:38):
You always gotta have the door shut down on you
at some point.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Well, a door shut down on you right before a
different door opens.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Yeah, there you go. Yeah, you can never have just
the door open.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
And it's all thattliche because or well an adage I said,
I suppose because it's true. I mean, that does happen.
So talk to me about it artistically. How that how
that makes you feel, like when you are rejected and
then you are accepted into a different world, Like, how
do you balance those emotions?
Speaker 6 (19:03):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (19:03):
No, I look when I did the musical Opening Night,
which which by the way, we did record and we're
releasing it the soundtrack album, and it's the songs are great,
and I think the piece was actually kind of great.
It was just a little out there for it was
based on the John Cassavetti's movie Opening Night. Anyways, So
I was so depressed when that whole thing collapsed and
(19:26):
to the point where you know, I had to go
on medication and stuff like.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
It was very it really, it was pretty dark.
Speaker 5 (19:31):
I mean, there was a lot of other things happening,
but that wast you know, kind of took me down.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And has that happened to you before professionally creatively.
Speaker 5 (19:39):
It's happened to me once before. But but I but
I didn't. I didn't kind of seek treatment for it.
I was I just sort of nut white knuckled it
through the whole thing. But this time I just needed
a little bit of help and and I got it,
and it was great, you know, I was able to
come back. But right as that was happening, you know,
(20:00):
the Requim was premiering in Paris, and I had you know,
Meryl Streep there sitting next to me, listening to it
for the first time, and I was able to appreciate
how special the whole thing was and how lucky I
was to be in this situation.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
But yes, there was this gnawing sort.
Speaker 5 (20:19):
Of sense which sort of limited me in my joy
at the time of my greatest triumph.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
Right, So, but let's talk about that, because I think
that is very relatable to you know, not only people
in the industry, but I think people you know a
lot of things. You get good news or you get
bad news, and it's hard to kind of pick yourself
up from that.
Speaker 4 (20:38):
And like, when you.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
Look back at that time, do you think that there
was anything you would have done differently or that you
will do differently in the future if something like that
were to happen again.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Well, I mean, look, I'm speaking of religions and stuff.
I mean, I don't want to do it, but I guess,
you know, you have to be sort of Buddhist about
it and say, you know, you have to let go
of that attachment and that kind of idea of being
you know, fulfilled.
Speaker 6 (21:04):
By your your ego or whatever. And so that's probably
the wise way to do.
Speaker 5 (21:10):
It, is just to not try to feel nothing a
little bit in a sense or just being you know,
very low key about it.
Speaker 6 (21:18):
But you know, look, then I wrote.
Speaker 5 (21:20):
Ten songs in my depths, in the depths of my
sadness that I'm now going to put on a pop record,
and and so it's also for an art I think
that's actually more what I struggle with. It's just and
that I've realized now in my fifties, is that there
is this kind of machine that I've created where you know,
I get depressed and then I write songs and then
(21:41):
I feel better. But then I got to get depressed
or to write a song, and then in order you know,
it's this cycle that that you know, certainly creates a
lot of material and but it is a little bit
diabolical at times.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Yes, I'm sure, I'm sure it is. I mean, that's
the life of an artist typically, right.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
And it's a good I mean, I think we're fortunate.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
But but but when I see people, young people, especially
when they're like, oh, I want to be an artist,
and you know, my first.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
Comment will usually say, well, you're not gonna you can't.
You can't tell me you want to be an artist.
You have to be an.
Speaker 5 (22:18):
Artist, like like you just you are an artist and
good luck.
Speaker 6 (22:26):
Yeah, not easy, it's not easy.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
No, it's not like anyone really takes care of you
as an artist emotionally. And I'm not sure in what
world you are taking care of emotionally unless it's by
your spouse or you know, family. But at a certain point,
when you go through all of the highs and lows
of having any career, a public career, also, you start
to learn to rely on yourself for your emotional well being.
(22:53):
You're like, no one can help me with this. Yes,
you can talk to a therapist, and of course you can,
you know, go on metation in like incremental times or
whenever you need it whatever, but no one takes care
of you. And like I think as an artist, there's
this attitude at least I had this attitude younger, like
when things didn't go right, like you fix it?
Speaker 6 (23:13):
You do?
Speaker 4 (23:13):
Do you do it?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
And like, yes, well that can be many people's responsibilities
in your life. You actually just have to take the
emotional burden of everything. It's your name on it, it's
your failure or success, and then it's your pressure.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Yeah, and then it's and then in the end it's
your glory when it comes to fruition. But at that
glorious moment, there's always a little bit of there's always
a chink in the armor. Oh it's uh yeah, yeah,
which is it's the way it is.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
It would be great to figure out a way and
I'm good at this sometimes, but not full proof. To
welcome the failure, to welcome the pain, you know, like
bring it on, because every time you have a failure,
we all know that something a rainbow is around the corner,
like something happens.
Speaker 5 (23:58):
Well, I mean I have a little thing to do
with that, which I kind of relate to Yang and
Yang where anytime I'm happy anytime I'm somewhat euphoric, I
just always say, look, I'm going to take a little
piece of this and hide it somewhere so that when
I'm in the dark, I can, you know, pull it
(24:19):
out and use it as a kind of flashlight.
Speaker 6 (24:21):
So I saw it, but I think it's something you
have to cognitively.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Do and practice.
Speaker 6 (24:27):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
All right, we're going to take a break and we'll
be right back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, write into us at
Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. We'd love to
hear your questions for any juicy story you'd like advice on.
This week, we're specifically looking for questions about surrogacy and
fertility issues, So if you've gone through IVF or are
planning to, please write in at Dear Chelsea podcast at
gmail dot com.
Speaker 4 (24:56):
And we're back with Rufus Wainwright.
Speaker 9 (24:58):
Hi.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Okay, we're going to take some callers. Rufus, Are you down?
Are you ready to Yeah?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Yeah, okay, Well, before we get to advice, Rufus, I
have to tell you that my husband, who's the engineer here,
who was floating around here on the zoom.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
You are actually the reason that we met. Oh really,
in two thousand and five, I went to go see
your concert at Ravina.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Oh wow, August in two thousand and.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
Five, and I was going with a friend. We met
at the friend's house ahead of time, and who should
walk out but this streamy, tall guy. And here we
are twenty years later.
Speaker 6 (25:32):
Oh that's so sweet, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I saw you Rufus at some small place in Santa
Monica a few years ago, maybe not a few, maybe ten.
It was really fun though. It was only like there's
a small room with like one hundred people and everyone
was getting down.
Speaker 6 (25:47):
It was I think it was it was mccabes or something.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yes, yes, yes it was.
Speaker 9 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (25:52):
Those are those are those are some Those are great shows.
Those are fun shows.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
All right.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
Well, our first question is just an email, not a call.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
So this question comes from Tina. Subject line is son's
sexual preference.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
You're Chelsea. I've been a fan of your podcast for
a number of years. I love what you stand for
and the advice that you give on your podcast. I
listen every morning when I walk my dog before work.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I'm a forty seven year old.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Single mom with three children who are all grown. I
like to think of myself as very open minded and
progressive when it comes to most things. I've always made
it very clear to my children that whatever road they
choose and their sexuality is their choice and free from judgment.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
And then this happened.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
My twenty one year old son told me tonight that
he's dating a trans person, a woman who has been
transitioning to be a man. I maintained complete composure and
acted cool, but inside I was really just feeling a
little bit of turmoil.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
I love that honesty. I maintained composure.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Yes, my son is the most beautiful, sweet, kind and
best person ever, and all I want for him is
to be happy. I've always known or suspected that he
was gay or otherwise, but I guess I'm just scared
for him, but at the same time so proud of
him for just love having another human, regardless of their
sexual identity or preference.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
I guess I'm asking for help.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
On navigating through our extended family, some of which, including
my sister and her husband, are very conservative. My mama
bear instincts are out, and I think I'm feeling more
protective than judgmental for him, but also feeling a little.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Bit confused of my own feelings about the situation. Many thanks, Tina.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I think this is easy, Tina, Like, I don't think
you have to make any proclamations or announcements to your family,
like your extended family, like first of all, get to
know your son's new love interest and spend time with them,
and like and and just keep opening your heart and
your mind because you're going to learn lots of things
that you didn't know about, and that's going to really
(27:40):
normalize the situation. And you kind of calling attention to
it too, even though I understand you're being a protective
mama bear because I'm a mother and I know what
that feels like I'm more of a father, But like
putting an exclamation point on everything, I don't think is helpful.
Like I think you should just act with grace and normalcy,
like this is normal when I meet the person, whether
(28:02):
or not they realize that their trans or not is
inconsequential to you, Like that's not something that you need to.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
Like preface or tell them before.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Let them deal with the situation and when it comes around,
I would suggest just going I didn't think that was
information that was necessary because you're protecting by telling your
sister and her husband, who are more conservative, you're protecting them.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
You're not protecting your son.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
You're protecting their feelings and making sure they have all
the cards. They don't need all the cards. This isn't
their love life. This is your son's love life. So
all you can do is show up for him in
a really responsible and present way.
Speaker 4 (28:34):
Rufus, what do you think?
Speaker 6 (28:36):
Well, you know, I wanted to.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
I totally agree with what you're saying, but I also
want to sort of praise her for even being you know,
open to stuff, because my mother might do. This was
back in the eighties when she found out I was gay.
She had a you know, a cigarette in one hen
and a scotch and the other and she said, rufus,
don't tell me something I don't want to hear. Oh,
(29:00):
So I was, you know, that was that was so
I'm someone who, you know, whenever I hear a parent
who's you know, really trying to do the right thing,
it's so important and should be really really celebrated because
unfortunately still, I you know, I just hear these horror
stories with parents who are just out of their mind,
you know, when this stuff comes up. And so you're
(29:21):
being the dad, I'm being the mom.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, well perfect, we're perfectly, we're parenting perfectly. I also
think like open, open, open, Just keep your mind open,
like you're going to learn things. You're going to be
surprised by the things you learn, and just be open
hearted and open minded.
Speaker 6 (29:36):
Be proud of yourself for being open.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Yeah, be proud of yourself, and just keep thinking like,
you know, I understand the protective aspect, but like we're
not there yet.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
You don't have to.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Don't worry about your son's Your son's happiness is paramount
to anything else.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
Like, just be open to that and open to understanding his.
Speaker 2 (29:51):
World, and that way, you're going to set the foundation
for him to be always comfortable coming to you, talking
to you about these things.
Speaker 9 (29:59):
Talk.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
You knew about these issues and you want to just
you know, the last thing you want to be is
shut out from any of that. So yes, just move
forward with grace and open heartedness.
Speaker 4 (30:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
And I will also say, just like a tiny asterisk,
I think she did a really good job just like
containing any fear or confusing that she might imposing herself.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Yeah, composing herself.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
But one tiny astreiss Tina is just on the sexual
preference language.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
You know, nowadays we say more.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Like sexual orientation, because it really is part of somebody's identity,
not a choice really that they're making. And I think
once you get to know this person, you know, I
think the only scary thing is having not ever met
a trans person. Once you get to know them, you're like, oh,
they're just a person, you know, they just act like
everybody else.
Speaker 5 (30:44):
They're just That was a and a sort of end
of my mother's story, which is kind of nice and
maybe it softens it a bit, as you know. When
she was when I finally did come out to her,
we were in Paris and she went to Notre Dame
Cathedral and.
Speaker 6 (30:59):
She was brought up cast.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
So she went and she prayed, and she claims that
she got a message from somewhere that says, you know,
Rufus is like any other person.
Speaker 6 (31:08):
You just have to treat him like any other person.
Speaker 5 (31:10):
And it is that message I think that comes out
eventually the world's as people.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
And that's it.
Speaker 2 (31:16):
Yeah, with that message that needs to be transmitted to
the entire world.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Yes, yes, that a human being is a human being,
regardless of anything else.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Well, our next question comes from Amber. Amber says, Dear Chelsea,
I met someone in the coolest way. We met in
a hot tub in Michigan. I live in Washington and
he lives in New York. He's my best friend and
he totally gets me. I never thought i'd meet someone
like him. I know he is the one. I have
a great career in Washington and a fantastic community and friends.
(31:50):
He has two kiddos and not the best job prospects
where he lives. I'm so torn because I love my life,
but I also love him. What do I do? It's
important to know. I'm turning forty this year and never
been married. I want to marry this man hopeless in Washington, Amber.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Hi, Amber, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today.
Speaker 8 (32:08):
Hi.
Speaker 10 (32:09):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
Okay, So you fell in love in a hot tub
in Michigan. You don't want to leave Washington because your.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Whole life is there. Yeah? And what state is he in?
Speaker 10 (32:20):
He's in New York?
Speaker 4 (32:21):
Oh, Okay, so you'd have to move to New York.
What part of New York.
Speaker 10 (32:23):
Like rural northern New York like close to the Canadian border.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Oh okay, well that is a pickle because we're not
talking about any major city here.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
Yikes.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
I mean that could be good to be close to
the border for other reasons.
Speaker 6 (32:39):
How far is it from Montreal?
Speaker 10 (32:42):
Well, we actually went to Toronto, like last month.
Speaker 6 (32:44):
Oh oh was there Toronto? Okay?
Speaker 10 (32:46):
Okay, yeah, like he drove, he drove like four hours
to Toronto and then I.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Saw four hours to Toronto. Okay, that is that is far?
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
I mean listen, if you're in love and you know
it and you feel it and you're forty and you're
ready to take a plunge for somebody, then you gotta
do what you got to do. I wouldn't want to
move there, but I'm not in love with anyone that
lives there.
Speaker 10 (33:11):
That is so true. But like you know, I have
like this whole community here. I bought a house, my
friends are here, my job is here. Although well I
have a job in a few months, I don't know
because it's grant funded.
Speaker 4 (33:24):
Lovely sure.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
And now I assume that like he can't move because
of the kids, right, like a custody situation.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
How old are the kids?
Speaker 10 (33:32):
Eleven and two?
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Uh two?
Speaker 10 (33:36):
Well?
Speaker 4 (33:37):
That that's another doozy. You're gonna raise a two year
old with him?
Speaker 10 (33:41):
I mean I used to work with kids. I love kids.
I just I don't want kids. And then he doesn't
want anymore. He's had of p stectomy. It's fantastic, Like
I don't have to worry about it.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, he sounds like a good, good option minus the legitigo.
Speaker 5 (33:54):
Are you interested in and started being in a child's
life and in the major waven though it's not your own?
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Is that interest you or totally?
Speaker 10 (34:02):
I have a lot of with kids, and I love
their kids and I love being like the best friends auntie,
you know, but I don't want to be their mom.
They have moms.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
They're good.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Okay, So if you lose your job in a couple
of months, say that happens, you know, I hope it
doesn't happen. But say that does happen, Does that would
that make it easier.
Speaker 4 (34:21):
For you to move to New York?
Speaker 9 (34:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (34:23):
I mean it would.
Speaker 10 (34:24):
It's just I think it's not even more, not even
about the job or the location. It's just when you're
at my age, it's harder to you know, make friends
and build this community. And I have like built this
amazing friendship in a community of people here, and it's
taken a while to build that, right, and then you
(34:46):
go to rural New York and you don't know anybody,
it's going to be really hard to make those friendships.
But also he's like my best friend, so there's that,
and I could always visit and fly and I have
that ability.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
And you can't just keep it long distance. For the
time being.
Speaker 10 (35:06):
We are, Yeah, we're making plans. We're seeing each other
like every other month or so. We talk every night,
and we've kind of built like little things that are
special to us for being a long distance so I could.
I told him, I said I could do this for
about a year. But then that's it. I'm done.
Speaker 4 (35:23):
What do you when you say you built little things?
What does that mean? Like, what's an example of built
little things?
Speaker 10 (35:28):
Yeah, so, like every morning I send him a picture
of what I'm wearing to work that day, just like
every day, I.
Speaker 4 (35:35):
Always your dick pic. It was our fun actually, but
only from sometimes.
Speaker 10 (35:42):
I've never wanted them before actually, but now I'm.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Like, oh, I'm still waiting to meet the guy that
makes me want to see a dick pick.
Speaker 10 (35:51):
So I never I never thought I would be that
way either, Chelsea, seriously, but he's it.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Is you are in love.
Speaker 5 (35:59):
Is there a way for you to go there for
like two months or three months, like an extended vacation
so you have a sort of a sense of what
a long just being there over like a week is,
Like I wish.
Speaker 10 (36:10):
I'm gonna The nice thing is I'm actually going to
go next month to like see where he lives and
see the neighborhood and just see what it would be
like for like the weekend. Because of my job, I'm
a program director and they need me in the office
to handle my staff. It'd cool if I had like
a remote job and could kind of be bi coastal.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Well, I think that you should definitely a if you're
okay with this for a year, great, take a year,
Take a year, go see his neighborhood, and the next
time you're going there and spend the weekend there. But
you have to plan a time where you're going to
spend a longer duration of time there in this year
that you're talking about, And if you do lose your job,
then that opens you up to get a job where
you can be by coastal.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
So then you can have the best of both worlds.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Because is there a situation where you would keep your
house in Washington and then also kind of go back
and forth if you had a by coastal job.
Speaker 4 (36:59):
I mean, that's what you mean, and right, Yeah, I think.
Speaker 10 (37:01):
I could totally manage that. I have a dog, but
I have a place where she could go that she loves,
so like I could, I could make it work for
a couple of years if I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
Yeah, I think that's what you should do.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
I wouldn't make any rash decisions just yet, you know
what I mean.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
Just start spending time there.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Spend as much time there as you can so you
can really get a feel for the place and see
if that excites you, Like, are you going to be
okay living there? Hopefully you can just be by coastal
because I think so many long distance relationships are successful
because of the distance. I know, we all want to
jump into each other's arms and everyone wants to shack up,
but it's also there's something to be said for missing
each other, for keeping the fire burning, you know, for
(37:39):
not living with somebody all the time and getting used
to all their shit and them throwing wet towels on
the fucking dry bed. All of that stuff, you know
what I mean, takes kind of the romance out us and.
Speaker 6 (37:50):
Start to resent their dick pics.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
Yeah, we're going to start to resent his dick pics.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
But because how many how many months have you guys
been seeing each other now as we speak.
Speaker 10 (38:01):
So that's it's complicated because I've known him for a
year and but when we've been talking and seeing each other,
but we've kind of like made it official like last
month sometime.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Okay, yeah, so give it some more time. Please just
be smart about it. You're forty years old, You're not
gonna I just want you to look at that community
that you built, you know, in Washington, like as a
very sacred thing.
Speaker 4 (38:22):
Like a lot of people yearn for that. A lot
of people don't have that.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
So I really want you to make sure you like
that's more valuable, in my opinion, in your life than
anything or any love affair.
Speaker 4 (38:32):
That is your community and that is your group.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
So just be very respectful of that and don't toss
it away lightly.
Speaker 10 (38:39):
Oh no, I wouldn't. Yeah, No, I have been so
lucky and blessed with my friendships and the friends that
I have, They've they've really stepped up, Like I've had
surgeries and they've stepped up to help with my dog
and me and just I just feel so lucky to
have what I have here. And that's why it's not
so easy as it might be for some people to
be like, oh, it's not a big deal, I'll just go,
I'll just move. And it's like I have everything here,
(39:03):
you know.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Okay, Well just keep that in mind with everything, right, Like,
put that at the top of your list. That is
at the top of your list. Even your love affair
is number two. Yeah, so remember that.
Speaker 10 (39:15):
I will. Yeah, No, that's super helpful to hear. I
really appreciate it because I've been really stuck. But I
will say, Chelsea, you are the reason I'm not married.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that kind of feedback.
Speaker 6 (39:29):
Oh.
Speaker 10 (39:30):
Like I always thought when I was like in my twenties,
I had to you know, get married and let a
man take care of me. And I realized now I'm like,
I take care of myself. I can pay my own bills,
and I can buy my own house, my own car,
and I can be the breadwinner.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, rufus and I were just talking before you came
on about taking care of ourselves emotionally as artists, right,
And I think this is also a good kind of
point of interest to talk about, is.
Speaker 4 (39:55):
That women are We're all.
Speaker 2 (39:57):
Able to take care of ourselves in every very possible way,
yet we're always looking for someone to lean on for
whether it's financially or emotionally or spiritually, like we want
someone who knows more than we do or that we
can go to when we have the capabilities within us
to take care of ourselves in every way. So I
think that's it's a great reminder, and I think a
(40:18):
lot of women who are listening today are going to
respond to that and think about are they taking care
of themselves?
Speaker 4 (40:23):
Have they built a life that they want for themselves?
Because we all have the ability to do that.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
It's about going to a place that you love, you know,
building your community, building your friendships.
Speaker 4 (40:33):
That does take time.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
It doesn't happen instantly, not for everyone anyway.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
And certainly I'm sure not for you. Right. Did it
happen right away or did it take time?
Speaker 10 (40:43):
I definitely like took time where I realized, like, oh
I can buy a house, I can I can do
it on my own. And I phenomenon since I was
like sixteen, So it took a while to like figure
out that I didn't need a man to like rescue me,
that I could just rescue myself and I can do
it all and it will be fine. And it's been great.
I love my life, like I said, you know, and
(41:05):
I don't need someone to pay my bills because I
can pay them, you know. I can do it all
and I don't need anybody else. But it's the it'd
be nice to have someone by my side. Yes, I
don't need anybody.
Speaker 4 (41:20):
Great.
Speaker 10 (41:20):
It's just like having that best friend that's just walking
alongside you in life.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
Absolutely, and they can walk alongside you, you know, across
the country. It's not like you're across the world for
the time being anyway. So right, you know, walk just
picture each other walking, Picture him and you walking towards
each other at a very slow pace.
Speaker 4 (41:41):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (41:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
Okay, well that sounds like you've got a plan.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
You're gonna wait a little bit, You're gonna wait a year,
figure it out, spend some.
Speaker 4 (41:49):
More time there, and we're in agreement. We're all in
a cord.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Okayyy Okay, great, love it.
Speaker 4 (41:55):
Thanks for calling him.
Speaker 10 (41:56):
Thank you, you want to have a good day. Bye.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Well, she was probably the most sensible person that we've
had call in for advice ever.
Speaker 5 (42:04):
Yes, An, FYI I want someone to pay my bills.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
I know I'm at the point where I would also
like that too, rufus. Let's fucking be honest. I've been
paying my bills and a lot of other people's bills
for a really fucking long time, and I would like
to commingle funds with another very wealthy person.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Well, our next caller is Katie. Katie is thirty five.
She says, you're Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
I know I'm not the only one in this situation,
but it sure feels that way sometimes. I have one sibling,
my twin brother, who's married and they've blessed me with
a nephew and a little niece, so that relationship factors
into my question. Because it's just my brother and I.
I haven't spoken to my mom or dad. He's more
just collateral damage since I can't get to him without
her being a part of it. Since November twenty twenty one,
(42:50):
my relationship with my mom has been complicated for a
long time, but the final straw was how she interfered
with my relationship with the love of my life and
interracial relationship she knows fully accepted.
Speaker 3 (43:01):
We've since split for.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Other reasons, but it doesn't change how she acted. After
giving her too many chances, I finally cut contact, and honestly,
my life has been better for it. Here's the problem.
She just turned seventy, and I know time isn't infinite.
I feel at peace. Was staying no contact with the
idea of getting that call one day where it's too
late makes me wonder while I regret not trying, am
(43:23):
I just grieving the mother I wish I had? Or
should I make some sort of move before it's too late?
Or is this just one of those painful realities you
have to sit with. Would love to hear your take, Katie.
Speaker 2 (43:33):
Hi, this is Rufus Wainwright, our special guest today. First
of all, I find that kind of behavior, like any
sort of racist, misogynist kind of anything that falls under
that umbrella, to be kind of unforgivable. You can learn
and make mistakes and come back that and that's fine,
But if that's just the way you're going to be,
and that's your attitude, so I think that what you
(43:53):
could do to just get your feelings down on paper
is to write, like, now that you're not in the relation,
should ship to.
Speaker 4 (44:01):
Let her know? Does she know that you're not in
the relationship anymore?
Speaker 6 (44:04):
Yeah, she did.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
My brother let them know.
Speaker 8 (44:06):
But a little bit of a plot twist, we have
gotten back together, so it's a.
Speaker 4 (44:11):
Little still the issue.
Speaker 10 (44:13):
Oh okay, great, Yeah, which is great for me. Yeah.
Speaker 8 (44:15):
I mean, I'm so happy and my brother and his
family are really supportive of us, and so, you know,
I'm just I don't know, I just feel like I'm
in this weird I was going along fine and then
all of a sudden, it was like I just when
she turned seventy, I was just like, oh my god,
I had this weird pressure, like I need to do something.
I don't know, But I'm so curious what you think
(44:36):
about if it's okay to just stay. I mean, if
I had it my way, I would just continue the
way I've been continuing. It's been really good for me
to have no contact. But I'm like, am I missing
an opportunity for growth here?
Speaker 2 (44:48):
I think you have an opportunity to write down how
that made you feel, and to write down kind of
like now that you're looking back at the situation, regardless
that you got back together, that's great.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
Good for you.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
I'm glad you guys worked it out. But just pond
reflection now that you've had time. How long has it
been since you you said November twenty twenty one, right,
so that's been enough years to have a reflection. I'm
sure she's had some thoughts about it too, So I
think it'd be nice to write a letter, like send
her an email or a written letter however you see fit,
just expressing how that made you feel, how your own
(45:20):
mother could turn against you based on the color of
someone's skin, not in a vitriolic way, but just in
a confounded way.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Like you were my mother.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
You were supposed to love me unconditionally for the rest
of my life and support me and guide me. And
to find out that my mother had these feelings about
someone makes me question everything I was raised with. You know,
this makes me question the kind of person I am.
I believed in you, I believed in you.
Speaker 4 (45:45):
And Dad, and the fact that.
Speaker 2 (45:48):
This issue in this day and age, is keeping you
from me, like however you want to frame it, but
like use that as a kind of measuring stick to
really just get all of your thoughts out so that
they're not weighing on you so much, and put it
over to her, send her an email with no expectations.
Speaker 8 (46:07):
Okay, but yeah, I mean you hit the nail on
the head as far as my feelings about Yeah, like
I have mommy issues, but like as an adult, I
feel like it's very it was so jarring when that
all happened.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And yeah, and also to maybe to posit a question
like I would also love to understand how you can
do you still feel this way? Do you really feel
differently about your daughter? Like, help me understand how you
were raised and what you were made to believe, so
that I can gain a better understanding of where you
are right now. Throw her some questions that she can
(46:41):
actually have to answer for herself, and then she's really
gonna have to contemplate how do I explain feeling this way?
Speaker 6 (46:49):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (46:49):
I love that advice.
Speaker 8 (46:50):
It seems so on the nose to like write a
letter and that's usually how you know. I but that
makes a lot of sense, and I think it would
get I think there's some leftover feelings that have come
to the surface and I really like that idea of
just writing it down. I don't even need to send
it to her, but at least having yeah, you know,
hitting it on paper.
Speaker 4 (47:07):
I really like that idea. Put it on paper.
Speaker 2 (47:09):
And if you do send it to her then and
then and you never hear back from her, then that's
your answer. And if you do and you never know,
you never know when people in their old age what
kind of like realizations they come to and and places
that they go to. You might be surprised, but don't
expect anything. Just just try to exhaust what's inside of
you with relation to losing your mom in the way
(47:30):
that you have, because it's kind of unforgivable, you know,
like that is really hurtful.
Speaker 6 (47:34):
Yeah, I would just say that. And this is more
for way down the line from now. You're obviously a young,
young person who leaves compared to me, so there's you've
got some time on your hands, which is great, but
but it's.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
One hundred and seven by the way.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
Yeah, and I'm a dead composer. So anyways, but I
you know, I have a lot of friends who are
and I'm you know, fifty one to admit it, but
I have friends who are older now in my age,
and who who are still who have not spoken to
their parents in many, many years. And there's a distinct
(48:13):
difference between those who eventually and this is not in
terms they never got in touch with their parents again,
you know, like it was over.
Speaker 6 (48:22):
Like if that happens.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
And I don't believe you have to you know, even
see your parents if you have problems with them, but
you kind of have to forgive them at some point
in your heart, you know, however you can, you know,
I just see a lot of older people who like
never really who kind of held onto this resentment towards
their parents that abused them, and it was like it
(48:44):
really I would just be mindful of that down the line.
And when I say forgive, I mean it's not even like,
you know, however you can or just to let them
free or something from tormenting you, because if it goes
on any further, I hope it's settled to more than that,
but just weigh down the line, you have to let
go of it at some point, I feel personally.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, that's the thing to say about forgiveness as an
inside job sort of thing.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, And that's part of the process of healing yourself
is just to exhaust those thoughts and those emotions and
even when they come up for you, even though it
may feel like, oh, like, I can understand a dynamic
where you your partner doesn't understand how you or or
you know, you not understanding your mother's reaction or having
difficulty with it with relationships, or your partner, Like, I
(49:32):
can understand that that might be weird too, to even
be like, oh god, it's so disappointed, or I miss
my mom or whatever however your feelings might present, but
like really feel those feelings. You know, it's very valid
to be to be emotionally harmed by an event like this,
It is, that's very valid. So, like, the healing component
is just really important to like really try to always
(49:55):
continue to heal. It's not just a one and done.
It doesn't just happen in one sitting or one letter.
It's a process of forgiveness and forgiveness, and every time
these feelings come up, forgive her in a way where
you don't have to communicate and be hanging out with her,
but forgive her for her own ignorance, for the way
she was raised, for whatever her parents did to her.
Speaker 8 (50:16):
You know, yeah, no, I love this advice, and it's
very validating.
Speaker 10 (50:20):
I think, just hear it.
Speaker 8 (50:21):
You know, sometimes I'm like, am I being dramatic? But
it feels it's like you know, which I think is
a normal response in these situations. It's for me to
feel like I'm overreacting, but no, it's it has been
unbelievably devastating and difficult. And then you know, now that
I'm feeling better and have healed a lot, I think,
you know, I'm like, maybe I should dive back in
(50:42):
that pool, but yeah, I.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
Don't think that's the right way to go about it.
Speaker 8 (50:46):
I love that idea of just writing it down. And also, Chelsea,
I appreciate this is the worst thing that's ever happened
in my life. I've never would have pictured this, and
I don't have that idea of you know, it's.
Speaker 6 (50:57):
Not just one and done.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
Is really helpful to remember that it's a process.
Speaker 10 (51:01):
Yes, I'm going to just get I'm not gonna.
Speaker 3 (51:03):
Just wipe it away and make it go away.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Well, everyone always thinks when they're going through something like,
oh I thought I was over that. Why is this
hitting me again? Why is this hitting me again? It
was just a week ago. I thought for sure, I'm
done with this. That's the way grief happens. That's the
way like emotions work. They kind of slowly drizzle out,
but you have to give them the proper amount of
respect and attention when they do come up, right.
Speaker 1 (51:23):
So Yeah, Also, just to address the emotions that you're
feeling about, feeling selfish or feeling like.
Speaker 3 (51:28):
You're being too extra.
Speaker 1 (51:30):
I think that when you're in a relationship with someone
like this who's not caring for your feelings, some people
like this will injure you and then treat you like
you're being too sensitive because you're bleeding and like you
made a decision to move farther away from the source
of those injuries.
Speaker 3 (51:48):
And I think that's totally fine.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Just remember like, it's not your fault for being too sensitive.
Speaker 3 (51:54):
That's that's the one.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
That's the one a lot of people use, is like
hyper sensitive sort of thing. You made the right choice
for you at the time, and there might be a
different choice in front of you.
Speaker 9 (52:03):
I love that.
Speaker 6 (52:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (52:04):
Yeah, yeah, thanks for calling in.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
Yeah, thank you so much, you guys.
Speaker 4 (52:08):
Yeah for sure, Katie.
Speaker 11 (52:09):
Bye, Okay, we're going to take a break and we're
going to be right back, and we're back with Rufus Wainwright,
who has a big show coming up in La on
May fourth.
Speaker 4 (52:22):
Dream Requiem. It's called Where's the show? Rufus.
Speaker 6 (52:25):
It's a Disney Hall downtown.
Speaker 4 (52:27):
That's such a beautiful venue.
Speaker 6 (52:29):
No, I'm very excited about it. Yeah, very excited.
Speaker 4 (52:32):
How does one rehearse for that? Do you go in
or earlier that day and rehearse?
Speaker 5 (52:36):
Oh no, there's about there's about three days of rehearsals
with the orchestra and the course, not a ton of
time because it's so expensive. The great thing about Disney
Hall though, with me in this project is that I
had composed the piece Dream Requiem, but it wasn't quite finished,
and I went to see a concert beforehand at Disney Hall.
(52:57):
And when when I got in there, I know they
have one of the most amazing organs in the world
at Disney Hall. It's this insane instrument that it looks
great and it sounds incredible. And I sat there looking
at the at the stage and at the organ. I
was like, oh my god, I have to have an
organ in my piece. That I need an organ, but
(53:20):
so so I uh so. I then went back and
composed the last little bit of the requiem with that
in mine, and and now you know, on May the fourth,
I'm going to get to actually hear that organ play
in the piece.
Speaker 6 (53:31):
So whatever, I just feel very fortunate.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, that's gorgeous, beautiful. Yeah, okay, well awesome.
Speaker 4 (53:39):
Well we do we have anything else, Catherine? Or are
we good?
Speaker 1 (53:42):
I mean, I do have one little quickie if you
want to, let do a quick close out for sure.
All right, fantastic. So our last question today comes from Casey.
Casey says, you're Chelsea. I'm twenty eight and in a
new relationship with a guy for three months. Recently, my
boyfriend read my private journal without my permission, and in
my journal I had written some things that weren't complimentary
(54:03):
about him. I love him very much, but also sometimes
I just need to vent in my own private journal.
After reading my journal, he confronted me about it, and
instead of apologizing for reading it, he demanded I apologize
for what I wrote, saying that what I did was
much worse. Again, all I did was write personal thoughts
in my private journal.
Speaker 3 (54:22):
I ended up apologizing because I was so caught off guard.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
But now I feel weird about it, and I feel
like I don't have a safe space to write my
personal thoughts anymore. I also feel like I can't trust
that he won't read my journal again. Additionally, after this happened,
he went and told his friends and other people about
what I wrote, which felt really embarrassing and invasive because
I also wrote about some personal things I was going through.
Is this a big red flag or am I being dramatic? Casey, No,
(54:46):
that's a big red flag.
Speaker 4 (54:48):
Huge.
Speaker 6 (54:49):
You gotta get far away from this person.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
Yeah, now that's an invasion of privacy, Like that is
a reason to actually end a relationship. Yes, you can't
go through other people's private things. You just can't do that.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yes, And I mean like to blame you for just
being able to that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Absolutely, he's first of all, if you read someone's like
you don't, that's supposed to be a secret. And then yeah,
and then he said double it's like a double whammy.
He did that, and then he wants to be mad
at you about it.
Speaker 5 (55:17):
No, and then he tells his friend and then he
tells his friends about it, which is it's like a
triple thing.
Speaker 4 (55:22):
Yeah, exactly, It's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (55:24):
You're writing, where are you supposed to express yourself if
you if it's not a safe place to write in
your journal. Yeah, this guy's no, that's a red flag.
Break up with him as soon as you can. Problematic
for sure. Okay, Rufus, thank you so much for being
here today. It was great talking to you.
Speaker 6 (55:40):
And yes, it's great to see you again.
Speaker 4 (55:42):
Yeah, and I hope I see you in person sometime soon.
Speaker 5 (55:44):
Yes, Yes, we'll try try to come on May the fourth.
If you're a figure out and Jane's going to be
amazing made the fourth.
Speaker 2 (55:51):
I would be there. I would come if I'm in La.
I have to look at my calendar and see if
I'm in town on Meg.
Speaker 4 (55:55):
In maya okay, okay.
Speaker 2 (55:57):
Bye bye, do do do do do drum roll, Catherine please,
Chelsea Handler Abroad. Abroad is my European tour. So I'm
coming to obviously find.
Speaker 4 (56:13):
A husband abroad.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
I need to get the health out of this fucking country,
and it's not as easy as you think. So I'm
coming to Rekuvik, I'm coming to Dublin. I'm coming to
the UK. I'm coming to Brussels, Paris, Belfast in May
and June, I'm coming to Oslo. Stockholm to Copenhagen, Manchester, London, Glasgow,
(56:36):
New Zurich, Vienna. I've never ever been to Vienna, Berlin,
Barcelona and Lisbon.
Speaker 4 (56:43):
I'm coming abroad is abroad.
Speaker 3 (56:46):
That sounds like fun. I'm going to go see you abroad.
Speaker 2 (56:48):
I I know I want to go see me abroad
and there all be there all be excellent.
Speaker 3 (56:55):
Do you want advice from Chelsea?
Speaker 1 (56:56):
Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot com. Find
full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching
at Dear Chelsea Pod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered
by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure
to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com
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