February 29, 2024 • 58 mins
Soccer star, author and podcaster Abby Wambach joins Chelsea to talk about doing the hard work, why life gives you whispers that come at just the right time, and how it feels to see your hard work pay off tenfold - for somebody else. Then: A techie struggles to be taken seriously because of her look. A sister is therapized and ready to apologize. And a woman finds her marriage may be over… even though everything seems almost perfect.
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Check out Abby’s podcast We Can Do Hard Things here
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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at DearChelseaPodcast@gmail.com
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Executive Producer Catherine Law
Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert
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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees. This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh hi Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, you're talking to a forty nine year old woman.
I mean, birthday, What a birthday? I had? Oh so
much love. You should see my house just covered in
flowers and champagne and drugs and cheese. It's just a fantasy.
I'm living out my fantasy.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What did you do on the day, Well, I have
some guests. I have about four friends at my house.
They came in. So we had a big party Saturday
night for my friend Kelly and I. We had a
joint birthday party, which was really fun. Yeah, everybody got
real fun and we did dance. We did dance it,
we did dancing. My friend's like, are you Mollie because
(00:43):
you only dance when you're on Mollie. I'm like, then
I must be on Mollie anyway, you know how much
I love drugs. So we had a big party. Then
we got up the next day yesterday for my birthday,
and it was a blizzard, like blustery, crazy winds. That's
a good thing, right, I mean it was pretty gnarly conditions.
But for me, you know, it's fine. I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I love the cold, and I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And I mean I at one point it was skiing
down the mountain and the wind was so strong it
stopped me, like I'm going downhill and I just stopped.
But I had a great time. I had a great
dinner at my favorite restaurant last night with a bunch
of my friends, and it was just one of those days,
like lots of lots of laughter, lots of surprises. My
friends always kind of set me up, set up a
(01:28):
little surprise area, you know, on the on the mountain somewhere,
and they put up a little happy birthday banner and
they were playing Bruce Springsteen for me, and they had
drinks and food and it was just really fun.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You sound very loved up by all your phone.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I do feel loved. I feel very loved and I
love everyone. And I also lost my phone, so I
can't even check all my messages.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I mean, that's great for your mental health, just like
no social media, no no.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And plus I put oh yeah, I put I put
out my birthday video, so I have to see how
that performed. I want to see what my reactions are.
But my friend just DM me saying your birthday videos
on the Today Show, so I guess it was a
big hit, fantastic. I added a second show in Vancouver.
I added a second show in Didney, Australia. I added
the Santa Barbara Bull in August. Yay, you leave it there,
(02:16):
huge and so yeah that was I performed there my
last tour and I was like, I need to come
here every time I perform. So that's exciting. And yeah,
I have added a bunch of new tour dates. I'm
going to be touring through all of twenty twenty four.
I had such fun shows last weekend. We went to
Edmonton and Calgary. I brought one of my daughters. Well
she's my son. We call her my son, but everyone's
(02:37):
the opposite sex in our family, and everyone knows who's what.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
They called me dad, so I have to call them
a son. And we went to Edmonton and Calgary, which
were awesome shows.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Again.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So yeah, anyway, I have Canadian dates left, but there's
only tickets left for the Vancouver show. Second show March thirtieth,
so awesome. Yeah, Okay, that's the story.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Morning glory good.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Are you watching anything good anything on TV? Or watching
or movies you've seen?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
No, I've been reading and writing mostly when I in
my spare time. I haven't watched anything in a few days.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, I just went and saw. It's like barely on
in the theaters anymore, but I've just went and saw
the Zone of Interest. Did you see it?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No? No? No, what's up?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is about Auschwitz and it's about a family that
lives right outside of Auschwitz and someone who works at
the camp, and it is I guess they actually screened
it at Auschwitz as well for people to come see it,
because it's such like an important film.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How lovely. I didn't know Aschwitz had a screening room.
I did neither, but you know that place has really
turned around.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, it almost feels like a horror movie. It's very unnerving.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's called Zone of Interest, the.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Zone of Interest, and it's up for an oscar or
two as well. It's haunting in a way that you
don't expect. And I've never seen anything like this. Oh
with that topic, so I great. Yeah, I would recommend.
I do have a follow up from one of our
callers from a recent episodisode, Akroneffa, who called in on
the Nicolevant episode. She wrote in to thank us for
(04:06):
chatting with her, and she says, I'm doing very well. Honestly,
since having the opportunity to speak with Chelsea and Nicole,
my perspective on losing my mom has changed. It was
their insistence that our mothers are always with us something
clicked in me, and I told myself that that's something
I will never question again. It almost felt sacrilegious to
my own intuition and inner knowing to constantly question if
(04:29):
my mom and ancestors are with me. So after that day,
I made a decision to no longer question it, and
it's stuck. I also forgot to mention this during the podcast,
but Chelsea was part of my decision to do ayahuasca
last year in Peru, and I got confirmation then too
that my ancestors are all around me. I'm grateful to
have had this fact confirmed again by Chelsea and Nicole. Sincerely, Akernaffa,
(04:52):
I know, just a total sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, our guest today is a two time Olympic gold
medalist and author of the number one New York Times
bestseller wolf Pack. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle, she
co hosts the award winning, critically acclaimed We Can Do
Hard Things to podcasts. So please welcome back to the show.
Abby womback.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Are you in Whistler?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I am, Yes, I am. Where are you, sister?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
It's in La at home.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Are you guys at the beach?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
We rented a place a block from our house that's
actually like right on the beach, so she can go
and write and paint there and that's really fun. So
we have like direct views.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's cute. When she's not painting and writing there, What
are you using the house.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
For hanging out? Yeah, we do our work, most of
our real work in our real house, so we just
go over there for fun watching the sunset.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That's cute. That's very cute. I haven't seen you since
the Angel City game, that's right. Congrats on Angel City
by the way. What an incredible organization to be a
part of.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, it's so cool. We're so proud of it. And
you know, it's just kind of like the beginning. I mean,
just in terms of the business itself, in the business
of women's sports and the business of women's soccer, things
are really looking up. There's huge potential for growth and
literally to be sitting in the stands every single game,
(06:13):
every single home game for Angel City. It feels actually
like a dream because I was there twenty years ago
when there was like forty to fifty people in the
stands and I was like still playing as hard as
I could, and so the experience for not just the
players is just drastically different. But to just go into
(06:33):
being into that environment, it's just it's really special. It's
really really special.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to hear about how it
feels as a retired athlete to be a part of that,
because it must be bittersweet.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yes, very much jealous. There's a huge jealousy component. And
also this is kind of what I did all of
that work for. Early on in my career, one of
my coaches said to me, is like the first year
of my professional career. He said, well, everything that you've build,
it's going to be ten x one hundred x bigger
(07:09):
ten years after you retire. And I was just like
like fuck you, Like no way, Like it's gonna be
big while I'm here, you know, like I'm going to
reap the rewards for this, and he's like, no, you won't,
and he was right. Sadly, Yeah, I made money, but
I didn't make nearly as much money as they're making now,
which is really great. You know, the World Cup, the
Women's World Cup is like one of the top four
(07:32):
or five viewed sporting events on television in the world
of all sports. That's above the Super Bowl, that's above
the NBA playoffs, like the number four out of ten.
So we've come a long way. And yeah, I wish
I was out there playing, capable of still playing on
(07:53):
some level. But also I'm so tired, Like my body's old,
and it's fine, and it's totally both things can be true.
I can have a little bit of fomo and also
just be sitting in the in the stands, you know,
reveling at the women on the field.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, because you're part of it. You know, even though
you're not on the field, you definitely have a big
part in it. And so that must be fulfilling. It's
fulfilling to watch female succeed from my vantage point when
I don't really have. I mean, I've invested in a
lot of female sports because of obviously the uptick and
the you know, it's like women have been underserved for
so long. We serve it up and look how we
show up for each other. It's obvious and ridiculous where
(08:33):
we drive the entire economy. So that's really nice to see.
I mean, you don't have to be in sports to
appreciate that women are getting the you know, attention that
they deserve and the respect that they deserve. And we
have a long way to go still, but it's nice
to see it happening in strides. I would say, Okay,
so listen, I know you started therapy recently.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, I have been in and out of therapy since
I guess college. My college coach forced me into therapy.
It was not a willing participant. Let's just say that
I was not doing well in school. I was really
probably partying too much. And back then, this is in
the late nineties, gayness wasn't cool or hip. It was
(09:14):
like frowned upon. And she thankfully had a gay brother
and noticed that I was kind of having some of
these tendencies and wanted me to have somebody professional to
talk to. So I got into therapy then, and I
just recently started about six months ago, now, I guess.
(09:34):
And it all started because I did an Enneagram test
and we had an aneagram expert on. Her name is
Suzanne Stabil. She's incredible and She basically kind of said, look,
you're an enthusiast. You need to work on your shadow side.
And when she said it, like it was like this
full body like Okay, finally you're right. I know it.
(09:58):
I've always known it. Avoided the sadness, I've avoided the
pain of my life. I've avoided and I you know,
for a lot of years I used I used drugs
and alcohol to numb the moments of those pains and
sadnesses and grief and heartbreak. And so I decided to
be kind of proactive about it, and I've been doing
quite a bit of work and it's been really fucking fascinating. Chelsea.
(10:23):
I have to tell you, and I didn't know this
at the time, but you know, my brother passed away
a couple months ago. So the world and the universe
kind of works in interesting ways to help, you know,
these little whispers help you prepare for what's ahead, and
so that's been really helpful through the grieving process of
(10:43):
losing my brother.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm so sorry about your brother.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, it's so sad, and it's so it was such
a tragic you know, he's fifty one, and I'm so
glad that I started this work six months ago. I'm
so glad that I started to like create a relationship
with the sadder parts of myself and that has been
(11:08):
kind of a revolution for me. And PS like still
in the middle of this grief shit, like, wow, it's intense,
it's really something. But I have like the professionals in
my life to help steer and guide me. And you know,
Glennon's obviously very enlightened in the world of feeling things.
And so just weird because Glennon is working on we're
(11:31):
kind of like we've switched positions. She's working on different
stuff and I'm working on this sadness piece and the
sorrow and this grief piece right now. And I just
think that therapy has been And every time I go
I'm about to go into a therapy session, I'm like,
I should probably just cancel.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I don't really need it totally. That's exactly what happens
when you need it the most, right.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, I don't really need this. And then after the
therapy session, I'm like, Okay, that was smart. I'm glad
that I did not cancel.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, Well, do you think there's a relationship between having
a relationship with the sad parts of yourself and your
shadow in your relationship with your shadow self, because I
think let's talk about the shadow self. For those of
us who are listening who aren't really familiar with that term,
what does that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Abby, I would say, I would say sadness is a
component of my shadow side. So as like a Gemini,
I'm I'm born June second, so my sign is Gemini.
I have like two parts to myself. I have always
identified more with the happy, joy, enthusiastic, light parts of myself,
(12:41):
and I have pretty much ignored all of the sad, depressing, grieving, sorrow,
heartbreak shadow sides. It's easier to kind of think about
as in like light and dark. However, the more work
I'm doing, the more I'm understanding that those are just
(13:01):
binaries that help our brains understand what feelings are. And
recently I feel like words are so incomplete when it
comes to this deep, hard work that I'm trying to do.
So the way that I would think about the shadow
side are the parts of myself because Glenna and I
(13:22):
we do ifs, which is internal family systems, were versed
in it, and that's kind of the way in which
we are entering into the therapy space. We all have
parts of ourselves. And if you can imagine sitting at
like a table, and you have like a capital S
part which is like the wise, the smart, the one
(13:45):
that knows all the other parts, the one that accepts
and loves all the other parts of yourself. The shadow
side is like the fear and the terror, and the
anger and the trauma and the judging, like all of
these parts that are part of who we are, part
of why we are the way we are for certain reasons,
(14:06):
based on our experiences, based on our families, based on
our past, and those parts of myself. I've never really
given a voice at the table. I've never given a
chance to speak up. I'm like, nope, putting you away,
locking you in the room, don't like you, you know.
And I've gotten heartbroken before, and so I then utilized
(14:26):
all these other modalities to avoid numb, to not deal with.
So the irony of this grief now that I'm going
through is that because I have so many other unresolved
heartbreaks or grief that I've gone through, I'm also dealing
with them. It's like fucking whack themle I'm like Jesus Christ. Okay, okay,
(14:46):
we're going to go to nineteen ninety six here. Oh okay, great,
let's go. So that's kind of how I would talk
about the shadow side of myself at least. And it's complicated.
It's not like one size fits all. It's not black
or white, it's not good or bad. It's just like
the human experience that I'm trying to have. I'm trying
(15:11):
to experience it more fully. And the more I do
this work, the more I realize the shadow side is
not dark. It's just a part of the spectrum of
my humanity. And it's something that I've kind of always
been a little afraid of, meaning like afraid of death,
you know, all of the Catholic things that I was
indoctrinated into believing. I'm trying to unwind and un unbelieve
(15:36):
because I don't think that it's it's light and dark
or good or bad. It's just people, complicated people having
gone through complicated circumstances that create parts of ourselves that
we either want to face or we don't. And I'm
finally just wanting to face myself. Now.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Wow, Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate
to you learn so much about yourself through therapy that
you have to start to unlearn so many things. The
more you learn, the more you need to unlearn. And
so it's like this toggle back and forth. And I
know from personally when I didn't understand that what shadow
self meant for a long time, and when I was
(16:15):
in therapy it was revealed to me. But I assumed
all those negative thoughts or wanting bad things to happen
to bad people, or people to get their karma that
they deserved, or to be invidious of another, those were
all qualities that made me a bad person. When those
are just thoughts that are happening, you don't have to
subscribe to them or participate even in them. It's a
(16:37):
totally normal and human nature to have negative thoughts about situations,
about yourself, about others about, to have lustfulness, to have jealousy,
to have any of the things that are thought to
be negative. And the actual healthiest way to deal with
all of that is by acknowledging that they exist and
not letting them overpower you. And by that acknowledgment that
(16:59):
all of these thoughts exist in all each of us,
you aren't letting them overpower you. It's when you are
denying those thoughts and trying to put them away where
they do take over.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
It's good, that's exactly right. It's really good.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I think also what's interesting about what you're saying
is one of the things that people who refused to
go to therapy, people who refuse to seek help, they
think they can get away with that and that it
won't knock on their door, and your grief and your
trauma don't go anywhere. They only get bigger inside of you.
(17:32):
They get bigger and bigger and bigger until there is
a break. And then sometimes that break is disastrous to
your well being, and sometimes it's easily recoverable. You can
go to therapy, you can like you know, seek out answers,
and it can be trying, but like, there is no
shortcut around it. So by evading all of these issues.
(17:54):
And there are people in my life who do this,
who are like, I don't have anything to I have
nothing to learn, like I want to do that, I
don't want to go there, And it's like, okay, but
it doesn't. Your life doesn't have to be this way.
There is unadulterated joy and bliss waiting on the other side.
For you, if you just have the bravery and guts
to go through this little tricky path that you're going
to have to go through.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, it's scary. It's it's scary, it's expensive, Like it
feels like therapists are impossible to get booked right now,
and and so I do want to just say, like
it is a privileged position. I do feel privileged to
be able to provide and create an environment to be
in a therapy space. But I come from a family
(18:37):
who doesn't really subscribe to it. I mean, I have
a couple of brothers and sisters who are in therapy,
but for the most part, my family's like therapy, what
are you gonna you know, what is that going to
teach me? And I don't think that we get away
with much as human beings. I think that some things
haunt us, you know, like we have like a deeper knowing.
(18:58):
Like I mean, it's like when Suzan said, I think
that you're going to have to spend some time working
on your shadow side. It was like the secret I
have been keeping to myself from myself that she exposed
out loud, and it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's the thing I've been avoiding my whole life. That's
the work I need to do. And I'm finally, you know,
(19:21):
in a space that I've been sober for you know,
seven eight years now, and I'm solid in my marriage
with Glennon, and we're finally like in a place where
we're both doing like extremely personal work on our own selves.
And I think that we both needed to find each
other to be able to do this work. And so
(19:41):
I do feel lucky to be able to do it,
but I also know that they're I don't I don't
know if we get away with much. I think that
I think that even in our last breath, it's something
that will. I just want to make my transition into
the next phase of whatever existence is after life. I
want to make that as peaceful as possible. And so
(20:04):
I want to do the work so that I feel
like all of it has been all of the stones
have been unturned as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And also so you don't have to repeat performance, right like, yes,
God forbid, we are being reincarnated and come back. I
don't want to come back. I want this to be
the last rodeo, like let me. I just want to
nail everything. I'm supposed to now give me a challenge.
I'm fucking on it, you know what I mean. I
don't want any hoops to jump through after this. I
want to go to sleep. Okay, so we're gonna take
(20:33):
some callers. Abby, thank you for your openness. I think
it's always fascinating to hear about, you know, people's lives changing.
I mean, people's lives are always changing, and being open
to it is such a beautiful, bountiful thing to do. Like,
to be open to change in your life and to
not have this narrow minded view of things is just
(20:55):
like it's the key to freedom and happiness. Okay, we're
gonna take a break and we'll be right bay and
we're back with aviy wand back Olympic gold medalist and
author also. Okay, so we have some questions, Catherine, like,
we have some callers. Let's get going. Let's see what
we've got on the deck for today.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
This next question I think fits in exactly what we
were just talking about. But Allison says, Dear Chelsea, I've
gone through some changes in the last six months and
have become very introspective and reflective. I've started working on
myself in order to be more confident and happy in
my life. And one thing I'm looking for help with
is forgiving myself of awful things that I've said to
(21:37):
people in the past when it was insecure and hurting. Obviously,
I would never say these things now that I've grown
as a person, but sometimes when I'm meditating or just
thinking to myself, a memory reminds me of a time
when I was a manager in retail and snapped at
a subordinate or didn't take someone's mental health issues seriously.
I've also said mean things when my temper flares up.
(21:58):
I won't remember saying it, but my sister said that
I really hit below the belt sometimes when I'm mad,
As I've learned to calm down and not lose control.
Thanks Chelsea, I hardly get mad anymore and have learned
to take a beat before responding. I know I need
to stop beating myself up about it, but is it
really worth apologizing to these people for things I said
years ago. I know we give ourselves closure, but I'm
(22:18):
wondering if others need that too. Thanks so much for
all your help. This podcast has been a real part
of my progression and self awareness. Sincerely, Allison and I
should say her subject line was therapized and ready to apologize,
So therapy has been a big part of this transition,
I think for her.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I mean that's a very interesting question because it's like
how big was the infraction and how offensive were you
and is there a need to apologize so many years
later If it was, like, you know, you snapping at
an employee, I mean, if you really feel the need
to go and do that, then yes, go, but also
it should be measured, like don't bring up something that
(22:56):
someone is probably not going to even remember. I mean,
it's a nice it's a nice idea, but it's more
kind of selfish than anything else in terms of if
it wasn't a big deal and you're just like, you know,
trying to make yourself feel better. I mean, you obviously
know if there are people in your life that you
really hurt, and that starts with your family and your
closest friends. When you're talking about employees, and if there's
(23:19):
like I would say, there's a statute of limitations with
regards to employees, Like if it was five years ago
and you snapped at someone, I don't know that you
need to send that person a letter. You can but
that's up to you. I just don't think that's a requirement.
If your sister has called you out on it repeatedly,
then that's the person you need to apologize too, and
any other people that have called you out on it
(23:40):
and said that their feelings have been hurt. And I
personally subscribe to this theory of you always get a
chance to make a new impression. And while this isn't
true for everyone in your life, you usually circle around
the people that you've hurt as an opportunity to resurface
in a way where they can see that you've changed
(24:01):
and they can see your growth, and you can act
in kindness and you can kind of make a new
impression to replace the last impression. I believe that to
be true. That has been true in my life, and
when I have that opportunity, I take it. So it's
more of like the opportunity presenting itself and me taking
it and leveling up to that moment, not seeking out
(24:22):
the moments. But that's just me. So it's whatever is
going to be best for your development and your peace
of mind. But also just think about when you're dealing
with these instances, who has really been heard and who
was just like, okay, whatever, that's just you know, a
moment in a day that they're nobody's going to remember totally.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I also, I just want to add it sounds to
me a little bit like you have a little bit
more work to do in the self forgiveness department, because
once you can access and create a relationship with yourself
around that kind of forgiveness of maybe what headspace you
(25:03):
were in, or what protective parts were rising up in
you to say these you mean things, or whatever it
might be, if you do actually truly understand those elements,
then self forgiveness can come because you can understand that
you were just trying to protect yourself for whatever reason.
(25:23):
We all were born and raised in different families, in
different houses, with different belief systems. You have different traumas,
you have different backgrounds, you have different experiences than all
of the people that you meet in your life that
give evidence as to why we respond in certain circumstances
rather than others. And I think that if you can
do a little bit more digging as to the why
(25:46):
of where you were at the time, what made you
respond or interact with people in certain ways that now
make you feel bad there was. I mean, this is
the work for me that I've done in my sobriety,
because you know, the shame is what just took me
down for so many years and kept me in the fight,
(26:07):
kept me in the grips of addiction for so long.
And until I figured out that addiction was serving a
part of me, that it was protecting me, that it
was protecting me in some ways, I was then and
only then able to forgive myself for the self harm
that I was inflicting upon myself. And that is when
(26:30):
I realized, oh, okay, then the amends come out because
you don't have shame around the action. So then you
can go and say all of your apologies, whether they
land or not is not your business, right. You only
can clean up your side of the streets. So that's
all I'll say.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I love that. Yeah, I think that's very true because yeah,
we can also labor like our bad behavior, and it's
like that's not an act of kindness or forgiveness to
anyone either sitting there and ruminating over what you did
what you did. It's like you should also be able
to recale great your focus on the future and changing
that behavior and not repeating past mistakes right, and that
(27:05):
also gives you a sense of, oh, okay, some of
those apologies may not be necessary because you've actually learned
that you can do better when you know better.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, and I think you know, if you do decide
to like DM an old coworker or you know, discuss
it with your sister. I think Chelsea's point of not
making it about yourself is really important. So like, rather
than saying I've changed, I've changed, just like focus on
like here is my apology for how I was before and.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Making it light like, you know, I've been doing some
work on myself and I felt like this might have
been a pretty crappy thing to say to you at
this time. Just want to let you know I apologize,
you know, and then that's actually takes it all off
of your plate and you don't have to even look
for a response, and if you get one, great, And
that's a generous, gracious person.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah. Where our next question comes from Aarin. She was
a graphic designer. Aaron says, Dear Chelsea, on your episode
with ze Way, you talked about aging and how there's
a double standard for women. I've been thinking more about
that and wanted your advice. I've always looked quote young
for my age. Recently, several people have told me how
(28:11):
young I look. These were isolated events and by themselves
didn't bother me, but the collection of experiences have me
feeling self conscious. On one hand, I'm youthful and society
tells me that's a good thing, and I'm so lucky.
On the other hand, as I advance in my career,
I wonder if my appearance is holding me back. I
work in a male dominated field world really and feel
(28:32):
like I'm already second guest because I'm a woman. I
worry that looking younger is not helping my case. I've
been interviewing for some jobs, and some are in leadership positions.
My mom suggested I wear more makeup and interviews to
look older, but first, I suck at makeup, and second
it seems disingenuous. I want to be respected for being me.
I've seen a lot of sexism in the corporate world,
(28:53):
and I'm definitely jaded. I just don't know what to
do if I need to change my appearance, dress more mature.
I've even considered wearing fake glasses to get more respect.
Any advice would be great. Aaron hi erin Hi yo,
yo yo.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
How's it going? Thanks for having me? Yeah, this is
Abby wamback our special guest for today. Hi Abby, what
are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Well?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have a lot of thoughts, mostly because I haven't
subscribed to the patriarchal ideas of what womanhood could be.
I've kind of gone the opposite route. However, I've recently
texted Chelsea a couple of months ago because my face
(29:37):
is starting to get older and I'm getting you know,
crows feets and discolored eyes, the whole thing. So trying
to figure out what the next steps are because you
are going to get older. I do understand that it
might feel bad to present younger and you aren't getting
(29:59):
the same kind of spect I also think you teach
people how to treat you one way or another energetically.
I mean, I kind of like the idea that you
might be seen as like an underdog. I thrive in that, like, oh,
you think that I'm young, Oh you think I'm not
(30:19):
good enough, Like, oh, I can't wait to prove you wrong.
To me, it feels like it can be a positive,
but I totally understand how it can feel lonely and
debilitating on some level to try to progress in your career.
I'm not the person to talk about makeup with because
I'm like, no makeup is the best option.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
I'm kind of same boat.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
So yeah, yeah, and I don't think that. I mean,
how old are you? I'm twenty eight, Okay, you you
look like you're twenty eight to me, I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
I feel like, Yeah, everyone else in my life lately
I've been telling me differently, so that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I guess, yeah, I hate the idea. I mean, my
dad with my friend with this recently, or my friend
is dealing with this in her job recently, that she
needed to be dressing in a certain way for men
to take her seriously. And I take a lot of
offense to that, Like, I really don't think we should
be reorganizing our looks to make people respect us more.
(31:15):
That's not where respect comes from. Yeah, you want to
throw on a pair of glasses, great, okay, But it's like,
it's your disposition and it's your self assuredness that are
going to gain respect from others and your work and
your performance at work. So when you sharpen all of
those things and focus on the task at hand. It's
going to be indebutable, like how valuable you are based
(31:35):
you know what I mean, Your looks are going to
become they're they're the first thing that people see and
the first thing that people ingest. Unfortunately, but that doesn't
have to be the way it remains. And I think
our behavior dictates how we are treated in a workplace,
even when you are surrounded by men, because eventually, after
enough time goes by and you prove yourself to be
a valuable employee, people are going to respect that and
(31:58):
expect you to deliver value. Right, They're going to expect
And so I think the quickest road there is the
direct one where you're just proving by your performance how
valuable you are and standing assuredly in your own shoes,
you know, standing up tall, standing up for yourself, not waffling,
not wavering. When men are trying to intimidate you, or
(32:20):
they're just intimidating you and they're not trying you, Actually,
that's a signal for you to be like, Okay, this
is my opportunity. This is my opportunity to stand my ground.
This is my opportunity to make a contribution here, Whether
it's conversational. Whether it's like workflow wise or it's about
a project, it's actually like an opportunity to gain respect
each time that you deliver something of value. Because what
(32:41):
I'm hearing from you is that you have a lot
of self respect, right yeah, so use that in your job,
and then that is going to be an undeniable thing
to people. Once you just keep putting that foot forward,
people are going to realize your value and you're going
to get past the hair and the makeup and all
that bullshit. That's all noise, that's I'm not real. Nobody
(33:01):
can be judged solely based on their appearance. That was
a very hard lesson for me to learn, because I
believe everyone was supposed to be physically attractive for me
to connect with. That's what I believe. For a long time,
I was like, Oh, I don't like the way that
person looks. I don't think we can connect. It's like, wait,
what I mean? People aren't here to physically please me?
So it's actually so the opposite is true for you too,
(33:22):
Like you know you're you are physically pleasing too many people,
but that is not where your value comes from. So
the two things are very separate, and they should stay separate,
you know. And I wouldn't count out to what any
anybody's expectations are. You don't need to dress up or
any of that bullshit. That's just that's nonsense.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You stick to what you know, and you stick to
what you're good at, and people will catch on.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I also think you said something in your letter that
is really important. You said, I'm starting to become self conscious,
and that is problematic when you start only seeing herself
through the eyes from other people towards yourself. Becoming self
conscious is to become aware of who you are and
(34:08):
then to see out with your own eyes, to become
the positive way of being. Like, to know thyself is
such an important quality. But watch the vantage point. The
vantage point is really important when it comes to self consciousness.
And I think that the male gaze we forget that
(34:29):
we shouldn't be putting our consciousness in the eyes of
the male gaze.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Yeah, that's something I struggle with for sure. It's how
people perceive any constent.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, y yes, I mean welcome to humanity, right, I'll
do it. Instagram, all social media. It makes us all
fucking crazy like that. But at the end of the day,
you have to figure out what you want to feel
and how you want to look. I mean, our kids,
they use makeup and stuff, and we are conscious. We're
(34:58):
always trying to ask. I'm like, are you doing this
for you or for other people? And they know better.
They're in high school now, they're like, I'm doing it
for my own sense of self and we're like, okay,
like we'll figure we'll deal with that problem another day.
But that self consciousness piece was something that really stuck
out in your letter.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, that's a good that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, And I think people are sort of simple when
it comes to like someone wearing a power suit and
a pair of glasses. Might you know, some people might
think they're smarter or more powerful, but you have to
do what makes you feel powerful when you're going into
these interviews. And to me, it doesn't sound like throwing
on too much mescara is going to actually make you
feel more powerful, right, It'll make you feel a little awkward.
So I think, yeah, going in with the look that
(35:43):
makes you feel most powerful, and also like you seem
like a very confident person, so like really channeling that yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, And Resting in who you really are is actually
the most powerful version of yourself that you can be,
regardless of whether what situation, whether it's a work dynamic
or whether it's a personal dynamic or it's a new
person dynamic that you don't know. Resting like not pushing
and actually resting in who you are, being present minded
(36:10):
when you are there and you are in focus, that's
what creates a flow state. That's what when you are
really there, like working to the best of your ability
and focusing on what your strengths are, knowing that you're
of value like that projects to the next person, then
that comes off of you and then that's that's kind
of an undeniable way to be. You know, people can't
(36:32):
argue with that because they don't know what it is,
but they know that they need to respect it.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Well you're welcome, so much, good luck and thank you.
So go into your next meeting and tell all those
jackasses to go fuck off. I will perfect tell them
I sent you.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Oh bye, okay, all right, well, our next caller is Chloe.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Chloe says, dear Chelsea, longtime fan, love the show. I'm
in my mid thirties and have been with my husband
for over ten years. We met in my early twenties
and have had a really great relationship. We've always been
a bit different, me being more adventurous, outgoing and a dreamer.
He's more down to earth and practical. He's handsome, has
a good career, and has always treated me well. I
(37:22):
always thought that our opposites attract type relationship was a
good thing, but as the years have gone on, I
feel like we've only grown more different and this has
caused a lot of resentment. I feel like I'm being
stifled and not living to my full potential. In an
effort to help him feel more comfortable, I have a
lot of things that I'm passionate about, my career, home renovation, travel,
I fucking love skiing, and my friends. And side note
(37:45):
about the home renovation, they recently purchased like a house
to restore together, and I think that's been sort of
a bone of contention. All of this can be very
overwhelming for my husband. Additionally, I've always been straightforward about
not wanting kids, and although he says he's okay with this,
his words and actions throughout the years make me think otherwise.
I don't want either of us to have to compromise
so significantly for the other. And there hasn't been cheating,
(38:08):
lies or scandal that people typically associate with a good
reason for divorce. So am I wrong to feel that
I might want one? I recently asked him for a
trial separation and he has been devastated by this. Although
some friends are very supportive, others think I'm crazy for
leaving such a good man. Sometimes I do too, as
an outsider. Do you feel my concerns could warrant a
divorce or do I try and work it out? Chloe?
Speaker 6 (38:30):
Hi, Chloe, Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
How are you? This is Abby, our special guest.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
W I'm back Hi Abby, Hi Chelsea, Hi Catherine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Hi, Hi Chloe. So you asked your husband for a
trial separation, but you're not separated yet, not officially. So
listening to your letter be read by Catherine, I did
not think you were going to go there. Can you
get into more specifics of what drove you to this separation.
It seems that he's leaning on you a little bit
(39:02):
more heavily.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that you know, with relationships,
it's never like one. I mean it can be, but
a lot of times it's never just one specific thing.
And I think that the final breaking point for me
is we have this incredible, incredible home that I'm obsessed with.
(39:26):
It's kind of like my project. It brings me a
lot of purpose and joy. He fucking hates it, and
we just kept arguing about it, and really it was
just the culmination of everything of where our relationship was going,
you know, him wanting maybe a little bit more of
a simple life, simple career, you know, maybe starting a family,
(39:49):
and me going in this other direction where I'm really
growing a lot in my career, growing a lot in
my passions. You know, I still like absolutely love to
travel and be with my friend and have a really busy,
crazy life that doesn't include the family. And there was
just something that happened with this house that we have
(40:11):
that was just a breaking point. I was just like,
I gotta, I gotta step away from this. I just
don't know if we are headed in the right direction anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, it sounds like he shouldn't be a part of
that project to begin with, because, first of all, the
number one reason couple's breakup is from a house renovations
that happens I've been in. I was in a relationship
with a man we were building. We bought these things
and we were renovating them, and our designer was like,
the number one reason couple's breakup is because of this,
and I was like, oh my god, who are those
(40:42):
people cut to? We fucking broke up. So, I mean
because he was so annoying about this, and I was like,
I don't give a fuck, Like I couldn't believe he
wanted to go to all these appointments with me, and
it was just so annoying. But like, it's not for everybody.
That's your passion clearly and not his. So like does
he need to be involved?
Speaker 6 (41:01):
So we tried it both ways. We've flip flopped it
several times. We've had this home for about five years now,
and we've tried it where he's fully involved. We've tried
it where it's partly involved, completely not involved, and none
of the options have worked.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
None of the options have worked.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
None of the options have worked.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Okay, and so you think a trial separation is where
you're at.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
We are in trail separation right now. But we've been
doing this now for a while, probably about six months
or so, and I think where I'm at right now
that I really need some help and advice on is
I don't feel any different than I did when I
asked for this. You know, when I asked for this,
I actually felt really relieved. And the things that I
(41:45):
do that are kind of separated from him excite me.
And when I think about getting back together, I'm like,
it gives me a lot of anxiety, to be honest,
and the hard part is is he is overall a
very good man. He is honest, he is good looking,
(42:05):
he has a great job, He's always been very good
to me. But I feel like I'm at this breaking
point of like, is this still what I want to
do for the rest of my life? I'm fucking scared
of being alone. Am I giving up somebody who is
a really, really good person who loves me a lot,
just for the sake of more freedom?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Are you guys in therapy?
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah? And has that gleaned any different feelings for you?
Or is it just not really?
Speaker 6 (42:37):
I feel like it's just a competition constantly of like
who's the better person or who's the worst person. I
feel like we've changed therapists three times, and unfortunately way, you.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Should change therapists if they're not working. That's what the
problem so many people is that they think that they're
stuck with the one they found. It's like, no, there
are a million therapists out there. Well, they may be
very busy right now, there's always somebody else, you know,
but I don't know. I mean, from what you're saying,
it seems like you have one foot out the door
and you are out the door. And I mean a
(43:12):
lot of people would be listening to this, and I'm
sure are going, what's this woman's problem? You've got all
these things that so many women would want, but it's
still not enough for you. And that's fine too, Like
you should know what's enough for you if this is
going to fulfill you. You're saying that you're being excited by
all these other things outside of your life that aren't
involved in your marriage. I mean, that's your answer right there, right,
(43:34):
And you want me to tell you to leave your husband? Gosh,
I don't.
Speaker 6 (43:40):
I mean it's so fucking hard, you know, Like, yeah,
you're right. A lot of women, including my friends, including
my mother, they're all like, are you crazy? You know,
he's crazy about you and you've got such a good
thing going that so many people want.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
But I don't know.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Maybe I am crazy, and maybe I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I don't think you're crazy. I just I just want
to acknowledge all the women that are listening to this
thinking because I know they are going, oh my god,
what's this woman complaining about? And I would like to say,
good for you for knowing that this isn't enough. Like
it's good for you for being in touch with yourself
and enough to know, Okay, I'm scared of being alone,
but I'm not scared enough to not do it. That
(44:20):
is a very powerful thing for a woman to feel,
and I applaud that. And I think that you know
the answers to these questions. And so I'm not going
to give you any answers because I'm not going to
decide your relationship for you, because you've already figured it out. Abby,
You're nodding, what are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Well, I think that I don't know, Chelsea. I don't
think you've been married and divorce right.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
No, No, I didn't want to get divorced, so I
didn't get married.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, so I think I might be the only one
who's been through a divorce on this on this.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Little perfect what don't you take it?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:52):
And I mean, Chelsea, you said it right. It sounds
to me like you already know what you know and
you're pulling the crowd with which you know. All of
these people, myself included, can give you all the advice
in the world, but you're the only one that really
knows what you want. And people grow apart. I mean,
(45:13):
I cared so much for my first wife, like we
were mad about each other, and then things change, Life happens,
You get to change your mind, you get to go
in a different, a totally different direction what I want
to say. And this was true for me, and I
think it's true for all of us. There's something inside
(45:35):
of you. Might be deep, you might be just starting
to listen to her, but there's a part of you
that is inside of you that you are listening to
and it's always been there, And just turn up the
volume on her a little bit now. Doesn't mean you're
going to get a divorce. I have no idea, but
there's something that it's trying to say, and I think
(45:56):
that you deserve to sit and listen to that little
part of you you and ps no matter what you decide.
I'm here to tell you it's going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
It already is okay because you've got you. And that
was one thing that I forgot when I was going
through my divorce because I was so a mesh with
my ex that I forgot that I had me independent
of that other person. And that is a hard truth
to swallow, especially because you committed to this marriage. And ps,
(46:31):
if you do choose to get a divorce, that does
not mean that your marriage was a failure. These are contracts.
Maybe your contract with this person is up. That's for
you to decide, and it's gonna be okay. And I
know how fucking hard it is, and I'm sorry because
it is a really big stress and it is hard.
Both things can be true at the same time. Staying
(46:51):
is hard, leaving is hard.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (46:55):
I mean so much of what you said hits so true.
I do feel like there is this internal voice that's
just like screaming that something's not right.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Chills. I just got chills all over my body.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And also, you know it's not going to feel like
this initially, but when you leave a situation that isn't
right for you. You're acting in service to both of you,
to you and your husband, because he deserves to be
with someone who does love him and who he can
share his life with and you know, not have to
have a person there kind of figuring out.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There is no such thing as one way liberation. Liz
Gilbert says that there is no such thing as one
way liberation. You will be doing him a service. Also.
Speaker 6 (47:40):
Oh, I believe that too, you know, especially with the
Although he says that he is happy enough with me
to stay with just me together without having a family,
I do think deep down that's really what he wants
to and I think that in this I could really
see that for him in the future, and I want
him to have that if that's what she really wants.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, happy enough isn't good enough?
Speaker 6 (48:05):
So true?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah? Yeah, Okay, Well I'm glad you called in.
Speaker 6 (48:10):
I am so grateful and glad that you guys had me. Honestly,
I mean, I've tried a lot, tread therapy, tried taro
and tell a lot of things. I'm like, hey, I'm
gonna try Chelsea and whatever. Awesome guess she has on board.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Awesome. Thank you so much for calling in, and good
luck to you, Thank you bye. That's a good caller
for our listeners to listen to.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, it's almost like the answer is easier when it's like, Okay,
this person is a monster. When the person's not a monster,
it's such a harder decision.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, but it's like it's so powerful to just go
this is good, but it's not good enough. Yeah, this
isn't enough for me. Like that's our lives are supposed
to be as as great as we can possibly make them,
not just like Okay, I hit this marker, I'm good,
right Abby? What what you never? Are you? A? Seven?
Enthusiasts on the Enneagram? Okay, yeah, I'm an eight?
Speaker 3 (49:03):
What is an eight? Chelsea? What's an eight?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
An eight is a fixer like come in, fix it
and then but but harsh, like hard, like just wants
to come in fix everybody's problems and then fuck off.
That's exactly who I am. I'm like, please don't bother
me again. Okay, but seven, that's interesting to know the
enthusiast has has to do work on their shadows self,
because this enthusiast is like the happiest kind of number
(49:26):
on the on the spectrum. I think forward facing like
big vibes, good vibes, happy. Yeah, So that's interesting because yeah,
if I have this new therapist who says, like, if
this is true, the equal and opposite thing is true. Right,
if you're feeling great and you're feeling expansive and you
want and you're just joyful, like be careful because they're
(49:48):
the equal and opposite part is true too, and you're
just not tuned into that. And it's like, oh, Okay,
that's important to know. You know, everything is a balance,
You're not just nobody is one thing, and in fact,
if somebody is a lot of they're also a lot
of the opposite of that thing.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
That's right. And I think that I, I mean, my
whole family would describe me as like an M and M.
I have like a hard exterior shell, but I'm so
gooey and like soft on the inside. But because of
what I did for so long as an athlete, you know,
I basically put on armor to protect myself from these
(50:23):
parts of sadness or sorrow or heartbreak or grief. And
I did a really good job because I'm very strong
and I'm very powerful and I have a lot of willpower.
But yeah, I mean all the parts of yourself have
to get seen and they need the light of day.
It's hard work, I tell you what, It's not easy.
It's not easy to sit and literally sit in the
(50:46):
grief and let it drop from your head. You know,
I went through a few weeks of bargaining and trying
to find the justice in it and trying to understand
it and make meaning of it. And it's like, I
don't I don't think that that's you can't do grief
in your head. It's just got to go through you,
all through your body. And you know, Chelsea, I know
(51:08):
you lost your brother when you were super young, which
is a different experience. But it's just like it's the
worst and also oddly the best. It's weird to go
through the to go through it the way that I'm
going through it. It's like I feel like I'm really trying.
I'm honoring my brother, whatever the fuck that means.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Well, I think as an adult, especially someone who has
been to therapy, you have way more tools to deal
with that kind of loss, and you can make more
sense out of it. Even though it's senseless, it is
a fact of life and a part of life that
we all have to deal with is losing loved ones.
And as we get older, we have more skill sets
and we have more capacity to understand that life is
(51:48):
bigger than what we know, and that we know less
than we think we do, and we accept that we
don't know and there are things we don't have answers
to and that we never will And so trying to
make sense out of death is pointless. There is no sense.
It's not sensical. It's the same thing that's what happens
in war. It's not sensical. There's no way to make
sense of it, you know. So I think you know
(52:09):
your body has to go through a grieving process separate
from your mind, and you have to have a lot
of work under your belt to understand the difference between
those two things, and that the that they your mind
and body work in concert, but they're also very disconnected,
you know, until you do the work to connect them.
That's why, like when people get nervous they start shaking
or they start quivering, it's like that's because your brain
(52:31):
is sending your body a signal that you're not comfortable,
that you're not prepared, that you're scared, that you're fearful,
that you're nervous, whatever those signals are. It's like, that's
how everything works in that circuitry. It's not easily measured,
so people don't take it seriously. You know, energy and
and body mind chemistry and connection. I mean, we're learning
more about it now, but it is fascinating and I
(52:53):
love to learn about that because you hear about so
many people. You know, they have a physical reaction to something,
but they don't understand why because their brain has repressed
that memory, but their body remembers that feeling.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Well. Yeah, being an athlete, I think that, especially an
elite athlete for thirty plus years, I learned how to
mind over matter physical experience. So the suffering that it takes,
the lifting weights, the sprints, the diety like whatever it was,
(53:28):
I was able to do it. And so I have
this unconscious belief I think that I can beat grief,
that like, I don't need to do it because I
know how to mentally leapfrog all of these difficult things,
these outward these external struggles, and that just ain't it.
(53:50):
It's just not it. And I've thought a lot about
that in the last few months, like, oh my gosh,
this is unlike anything I have been tested at and
it's confusing for my body because my body's like, we
can do anything. You are a superstar, like what's happening,
And my body's like, Nope, can't do it. Like just
(54:12):
even these last two weeks, I've been like I can't
even go for a walk. I've just like kacooned myself.
And there's this little wise part of myself that's like
speaking up, going, yes, this is what you need. Be still.
You have used your body to jump out of grief before,
you have used your body to overcome and not pay
(54:34):
attention to some of this stuff. So it's to be still,
feel sorrow, feel sad, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Absolutely Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll
be right back to wrap things up with you. Abby
wan back. Okay, we're back, Abby. Thank you for your candor.
I loved hearing you talk about therapy. I'm sure many
of our listeners also loved it. It's so nice when
you are able to talk freely about getting help right Like,
(55:06):
it's such a gift to other people to hear that
you're not nobody's alone and nobody's going through it as
something that no one else has been through because that's
just not true.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
That's right. Every person on the planet has and is
or is currently experiencing something that you're experienced, Like this
experience down here is not one sided. We're doing it together.
Whether we will like that or not, it's happening, and
there are experts out there that can help navigate and
(55:34):
help us navigate for ourselves the life that we want
and the way in which we want to go about it. Right,
And I get that not everybody buys into some forms
of therapy, but there are so many different kinds of therapy.
You know, you have talk therapy, you have a lot
of psychedelic stuff that's happening in the world. You've got
(55:55):
for me, this IFS Internal family systems. People should look
into it because it's a totally different approach where it
makes it so much less personal, which feels counterintuitive, but
it really works for me because especially with all the
shame stuff that I could go down with it with
my addictive behaviors. There's just so many different kinds. So
(56:15):
maybe you go to a therapist and it doesn't work
for you, find a different therapist that's in a different
genre of therapy.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, IFS. I've read about and I'm interested and curious
to hear more about it. We should find somebody who
could speak to that. Catherine on the podcast because I
liked what I read so far.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Dick Schwartz is the guy. We actually just had him
on our podcast. He's like the father of it.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And okay.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
He took me, Glennon and Amanda through an exercise, an
IFS exercise, which I think you should just have him
on it. It's super interesting. I think that you would
actually really really like it, Chelsea, love it.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Okay, Well, we will thank you Abby so much. So
great to see you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
So good to see you guys. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah, anytime, take care and come back for sure. Okay. So,
Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is my game.
Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry I misspoke.
I have added more shows. I added a second show
in Vancouver, so I have two shows in Vancouver March
twenty ninth March thirtieth, I am coming to Calgary, Victoria, Colowna.
(57:23):
Then I've added another show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth,
So I have two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth.
For other shows in Australia at New Zealand, go to
Chelsea Handler dot com. And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman,
Oklahoma on May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which
is May fourth, and then I'll be at the YouTube
(57:45):
Theater May eleventh in Los Angeles with Matteo Laine and
Vanessa Gonzalez and Fortune Femster and Sam Jay. Those are
my updates and more shows are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com
Hi Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:02):
Oh hi Chelsea.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, you're talking to a forty nine year old woman.
I mean, birthday, What a birthday? I had? Oh so
much love. You should see my house just covered in
flowers and champagne and drugs and cheese. It's just a fantasy.
I'm living out my fantasy.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
That's great.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What did you do on the day, Well, I have
some guests. I have about four friends at my house.
They came in. So we had a big party Saturday
night for my friend Kelly and I. We had a
joint birthday party, which was really fun. Yeah, everybody got
real fun and we did dance. We did dance it,
we did dancing. My friend's like, are you Mollie because
(00:43):
you only dance when you're on Mollie. I'm like, then
I must be on Mollie anyway, you know how much
I love drugs. So we had a big party. Then
we got up the next day yesterday for my birthday,
and it was a blizzard, like blustery, crazy winds. That's
a good thing, right, I mean it was pretty gnarly conditions.
But for me, you know, it's fine. I love it.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
I love the cold, and I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
And I mean I at one point it was skiing
down the mountain and the wind was so strong it
stopped me, like I'm going downhill and I just stopped.
But I had a great time. I had a great
dinner at my favorite restaurant last night with a bunch
of my friends, and it was just one of those days,
like lots of lots of laughter, lots of surprises. My
friends always kind of set me up, set up a
(01:28):
little surprise area, you know, on the on the mountain somewhere,
and they put up a little happy birthday banner and
they were playing Bruce Springsteen for me, and they had
drinks and food and it was just really fun.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
You sound very loved up by all your phone.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I do feel loved. I feel very loved and I
love everyone. And I also lost my phone, so I
can't even check all my messages.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I mean, that's great for your mental health, just like
no social media, no no.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
I know.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
And plus I put oh yeah, I put I put
out my birthday video, so I have to see how
that performed. I want to see what my reactions are.
But my friend just DM me saying your birthday videos
on the Today Show, so I guess it was a
big hit, fantastic. I added a second show in Vancouver.
I added a second show in Didney, Australia. I added
the Santa Barbara Bull in August. Yay, you leave it there,
(02:16):
huge and so yeah that was I performed there my
last tour and I was like, I need to come
here every time I perform. So that's exciting. And yeah,
I have added a bunch of new tour dates. I'm
going to be touring through all of twenty twenty four.
I had such fun shows last weekend. We went to
Edmonton and Calgary. I brought one of my daughters. Well
she's my son. We call her my son, but everyone's
(02:37):
the opposite sex in our family, and everyone knows who's what.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
It doesn't really matter.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
They called me dad, so I have to call them
a son. And we went to Edmonton and Calgary, which
were awesome shows.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Again.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
So yeah, anyway, I have Canadian dates left, but there's
only tickets left for the Vancouver show. Second show March thirtieth,
so awesome. Yeah, Okay, that's the story.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Morning glory good.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Are you watching anything good anything on TV? Or watching
or movies you've seen?
Speaker 1 (03:03):
No, I've been reading and writing mostly when I in
my spare time. I haven't watched anything in a few days.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Yeah, I just went and saw. It's like barely on
in the theaters anymore, but I've just went and saw
the Zone of Interest. Did you see it?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
No? No? No, what's up?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
It is about Auschwitz and it's about a family that
lives right outside of Auschwitz and someone who works at
the camp, and it is I guess they actually screened
it at Auschwitz as well for people to come see it,
because it's such like an important film.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
How lovely. I didn't know Aschwitz had a screening room.
I did neither, but you know that place has really
turned around.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, it almost feels like a horror movie. It's very unnerving.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
It's called Zone of Interest, the.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Zone of Interest, and it's up for an oscar or
two as well. It's haunting in a way that you
don't expect. And I've never seen anything like this. Oh
with that topic, so I great. Yeah, I would recommend.
I do have a follow up from one of our
callers from a recent episodisode, Akroneffa, who called in on
the Nicolevant episode. She wrote in to thank us for
(04:06):
chatting with her, and she says, I'm doing very well. Honestly,
since having the opportunity to speak with Chelsea and Nicole,
my perspective on losing my mom has changed. It was
their insistence that our mothers are always with us something
clicked in me, and I told myself that that's something
I will never question again. It almost felt sacrilegious to
my own intuition and inner knowing to constantly question if
(04:29):
my mom and ancestors are with me. So after that day,
I made a decision to no longer question it, and
it's stuck. I also forgot to mention this during the podcast,
but Chelsea was part of my decision to do ayahuasca
last year in Peru, and I got confirmation then too
that my ancestors are all around me. I'm grateful to
have had this fact confirmed again by Chelsea and Nicole. Sincerely, Akernaffa,
(04:52):
I know, just a total sweetheart.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Okay, our guest today is a two time Olympic gold
medalist and author of the number one New York Times
bestseller wolf Pack. Together with her wife Glennon Doyle, she
co hosts the award winning, critically acclaimed We Can Do
Hard Things to podcasts. So please welcome back to the show.
Abby womback.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Are you in Whistler?
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I am, Yes, I am. Where are you, sister?
Speaker 3 (05:16):
It's in La at home.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
Are you guys at the beach?
Speaker 3 (05:19):
We rented a place a block from our house that's
actually like right on the beach, so she can go
and write and paint there and that's really fun. So
we have like direct views.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
That's cute. When she's not painting and writing there, What
are you using the house.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
For hanging out? Yeah, we do our work, most of
our real work in our real house, so we just
go over there for fun watching the sunset.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That's cute. That's very cute. I haven't seen you since
the Angel City game, that's right. Congrats on Angel City
by the way. What an incredible organization to be a
part of.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, it's so cool. We're so proud of it. And
you know, it's just kind of like the beginning. I mean,
just in terms of the business itself, in the business
of women's sports and the business of women's soccer, things
are really looking up. There's huge potential for growth and
literally to be sitting in the stands every single game,
(06:13):
every single home game for Angel City. It feels actually
like a dream because I was there twenty years ago
when there was like forty to fifty people in the
stands and I was like still playing as hard as
I could, and so the experience for not just the
players is just drastically different. But to just go into
(06:33):
being into that environment, it's just it's really special. It's
really really special.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to hear about how it
feels as a retired athlete to be a part of that,
because it must be bittersweet.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Yes, very much jealous. There's a huge jealousy component. And
also this is kind of what I did all of
that work for. Early on in my career, one of
my coaches said to me, is like the first year
of my professional career. He said, well, everything that you've build,
it's going to be ten x one hundred x bigger
(07:09):
ten years after you retire. And I was just like
like fuck you, Like no way, Like it's gonna be
big while I'm here, you know, like I'm going to
reap the rewards for this, and he's like, no, you won't,
and he was right. Sadly, Yeah, I made money, but
I didn't make nearly as much money as they're making now,
which is really great. You know, the World Cup, the
Women's World Cup is like one of the top four
(07:32):
or five viewed sporting events on television in the world
of all sports. That's above the Super Bowl, that's above
the NBA playoffs, like the number four out of ten.
So we've come a long way. And yeah, I wish
I was out there playing, capable of still playing on
(07:53):
some level. But also I'm so tired, Like my body's old,
and it's fine, and it's totally both things can be true.
I can have a little bit of fomo and also
just be sitting in the in the stands, you know,
reveling at the women on the field.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
Yeah, because you're part of it. You know, even though
you're not on the field, you definitely have a big
part in it. And so that must be fulfilling. It's
fulfilling to watch female succeed from my vantage point when
I don't really have. I mean, I've invested in a
lot of female sports because of obviously the uptick and
the you know, it's like women have been underserved for
so long. We serve it up and look how we
show up for each other. It's obvious and ridiculous where
(08:33):
we drive the entire economy. So that's really nice to see.
I mean, you don't have to be in sports to
appreciate that women are getting the you know, attention that
they deserve and the respect that they deserve. And we
have a long way to go still, but it's nice
to see it happening in strides. I would say, Okay,
so listen, I know you started therapy recently.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Yes, I have been in and out of therapy since
I guess college. My college coach forced me into therapy.
It was not a willing participant. Let's just say that
I was not doing well in school. I was really
probably partying too much. And back then, this is in
the late nineties, gayness wasn't cool or hip. It was
(09:14):
like frowned upon. And she thankfully had a gay brother
and noticed that I was kind of having some of
these tendencies and wanted me to have somebody professional to
talk to. So I got into therapy then, and I
just recently started about six months ago, now, I guess.
(09:34):
And it all started because I did an Enneagram test
and we had an aneagram expert on. Her name is
Suzanne Stabil. She's incredible and She basically kind of said, look,
you're an enthusiast. You need to work on your shadow side.
And when she said it, like it was like this
full body like Okay, finally you're right. I know it.
(09:58):
I've always known it. Avoided the sadness, I've avoided the
pain of my life. I've avoided and I you know,
for a lot of years I used I used drugs
and alcohol to numb the moments of those pains and
sadnesses and grief and heartbreak. And so I decided to
be kind of proactive about it, and I've been doing
quite a bit of work and it's been really fucking fascinating. Chelsea.
(10:23):
I have to tell you, and I didn't know this
at the time, but you know, my brother passed away
a couple months ago. So the world and the universe
kind of works in interesting ways to help, you know,
these little whispers help you prepare for what's ahead, and
so that's been really helpful through the grieving process of
(10:43):
losing my brother.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I'm so sorry about your brother.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Yeah, it's so sad, and it's so it was such
a tragic you know, he's fifty one, and I'm so
glad that I started this work six months ago. I'm
so glad that I started to like create a relationship
with the sadder parts of myself and that has been
(11:08):
kind of a revolution for me. And PS like still
in the middle of this grief shit, like, wow, it's intense,
it's really something. But I have like the professionals in
my life to help steer and guide me. And you know,
Glennon's obviously very enlightened in the world of feeling things.
And so just weird because Glennon is working on we're
(11:31):
kind of like we've switched positions. She's working on different
stuff and I'm working on this sadness piece and the
sorrow and this grief piece right now. And I just
think that therapy has been And every time I go
I'm about to go into a therapy session, I'm like,
I should probably just cancel.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
I don't really need it totally. That's exactly what happens
when you need it the most, right.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
Yeah, I don't really need this. And then after the
therapy session, I'm like, Okay, that was smart. I'm glad
that I did not cancel.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, Well, do you think there's a relationship between having
a relationship with the sad parts of yourself and your
shadow in your relationship with your shadow self, because I
think let's talk about the shadow self. For those of
us who are listening who aren't really familiar with that term,
what does that mean to you?
Speaker 3 (12:15):
Abby, I would say, I would say sadness is a
component of my shadow side. So as like a Gemini,
I'm I'm born June second, so my sign is Gemini.
I have like two parts to myself. I have always
identified more with the happy, joy, enthusiastic, light parts of myself,
(12:41):
and I have pretty much ignored all of the sad, depressing, grieving, sorrow,
heartbreak shadow sides. It's easier to kind of think about
as in like light and dark. However, the more work
I'm doing, the more I'm understanding that those are just
(13:01):
binaries that help our brains understand what feelings are. And
recently I feel like words are so incomplete when it
comes to this deep, hard work that I'm trying to do.
So the way that I would think about the shadow
side are the parts of myself because Glenna and I
(13:22):
we do ifs, which is internal family systems, were versed
in it, and that's kind of the way in which
we are entering into the therapy space. We all have
parts of ourselves. And if you can imagine sitting at
like a table, and you have like a capital S
part which is like the wise, the smart, the one
(13:45):
that knows all the other parts, the one that accepts
and loves all the other parts of yourself. The shadow
side is like the fear and the terror, and the
anger and the trauma and the judging, like all of
these parts that are part of who we are, part
of why we are the way we are for certain reasons,
(14:06):
based on our experiences, based on our families, based on
our past, and those parts of myself. I've never really
given a voice at the table. I've never given a
chance to speak up. I'm like, nope, putting you away,
locking you in the room, don't like you, you know.
And I've gotten heartbroken before, and so I then utilized
(14:26):
all these other modalities to avoid numb, to not deal with.
So the irony of this grief now that I'm going
through is that because I have so many other unresolved
heartbreaks or grief that I've gone through, I'm also dealing
with them. It's like fucking whack themle I'm like Jesus Christ. Okay, okay,
(14:46):
we're going to go to nineteen ninety six here. Oh okay, great,
let's go. So that's kind of how I would talk
about the shadow side of myself at least. And it's complicated.
It's not like one size fits all. It's not black
or white, it's not good or bad. It's just like
the human experience that I'm trying to have. I'm trying
(15:11):
to experience it more fully. And the more I do
this work, the more I realize the shadow side is
not dark. It's just a part of the spectrum of
my humanity. And it's something that I've kind of always
been a little afraid of, meaning like afraid of death,
you know, all of the Catholic things that I was
indoctrinated into believing. I'm trying to unwind and un unbelieve
(15:36):
because I don't think that it's it's light and dark
or good or bad. It's just people, complicated people having
gone through complicated circumstances that create parts of ourselves that
we either want to face or we don't. And I'm
finally just wanting to face myself. Now.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Wow, Yeah, I think a lot of us can relate
to you learn so much about yourself through therapy that
you have to start to unlearn so many things. The
more you learn, the more you need to unlearn. And
so it's like this toggle back and forth. And I
know from personally when I didn't understand that what shadow
self meant for a long time, and when I was
(16:15):
in therapy it was revealed to me. But I assumed
all those negative thoughts or wanting bad things to happen
to bad people, or people to get their karma that
they deserved, or to be invidious of another, those were
all qualities that made me a bad person. When those
are just thoughts that are happening, you don't have to
subscribe to them or participate even in them. It's a
(16:37):
totally normal and human nature to have negative thoughts about situations,
about yourself, about others about, to have lustfulness, to have jealousy,
to have any of the things that are thought to
be negative. And the actual healthiest way to deal with
all of that is by acknowledging that they exist and
not letting them overpower you. And by that acknowledgment that
(16:59):
all of these thoughts exist in all each of us,
you aren't letting them overpower you. It's when you are
denying those thoughts and trying to put them away where
they do take over.
Speaker 3 (17:08):
It's good, that's exactly right. It's really good.
Speaker 1 (17:11):
And I think also what's interesting about what you're saying
is one of the things that people who refused to
go to therapy, people who refuse to seek help, they
think they can get away with that and that it
won't knock on their door, and your grief and your
trauma don't go anywhere. They only get bigger inside of you.
(17:32):
They get bigger and bigger and bigger until there is
a break. And then sometimes that break is disastrous to
your well being, and sometimes it's easily recoverable. You can
go to therapy, you can like you know, seek out answers,
and it can be trying, but like, there is no
shortcut around it. So by evading all of these issues.
(17:54):
And there are people in my life who do this,
who are like, I don't have anything to I have
nothing to learn, like I want to do that, I
don't want to go there, And it's like, okay, but
it doesn't. Your life doesn't have to be this way.
There is unadulterated joy and bliss waiting on the other side.
For you, if you just have the bravery and guts
to go through this little tricky path that you're going
to have to go through.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
Yeah, it's scary. It's it's scary, it's expensive, Like it
feels like therapists are impossible to get booked right now,
and and so I do want to just say, like
it is a privileged position. I do feel privileged to
be able to provide and create an environment to be
in a therapy space. But I come from a family
(18:37):
who doesn't really subscribe to it. I mean, I have
a couple of brothers and sisters who are in therapy,
but for the most part, my family's like therapy, what
are you gonna you know, what is that going to
teach me? And I don't think that we get away
with much as human beings. I think that some things
haunt us, you know, like we have like a deeper knowing.
(18:58):
Like I mean, it's like when Suzan said, I think
that you're going to have to spend some time working
on your shadow side. It was like the secret I
have been keeping to myself from myself that she exposed
out loud, and it was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's the thing I've been avoiding my whole life. That's
the work I need to do. And I'm finally, you know,
(19:21):
in a space that I've been sober for you know,
seven eight years now, and I'm solid in my marriage
with Glennon, and we're finally like in a place where
we're both doing like extremely personal work on our own selves.
And I think that we both needed to find each
other to be able to do this work. And so
(19:41):
I do feel lucky to be able to do it,
but I also know that they're I don't I don't
know if we get away with much. I think that
I think that even in our last breath, it's something
that will. I just want to make my transition into
the next phase of whatever existence is after life. I
want to make that as peaceful as possible. And so
(20:04):
I want to do the work so that I feel
like all of it has been all of the stones
have been unturned as much as I possibly can.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
And also so you don't have to repeat performance, right like, yes,
God forbid, we are being reincarnated and come back. I
don't want to come back. I want this to be
the last rodeo, like let me. I just want to
nail everything. I'm supposed to now give me a challenge.
I'm fucking on it, you know what I mean. I
don't want any hoops to jump through after this. I
want to go to sleep. Okay, so we're gonna take
(20:33):
some callers. Abby, thank you for your openness. I think
it's always fascinating to hear about, you know, people's lives changing.
I mean, people's lives are always changing, and being open
to it is such a beautiful, bountiful thing to do. Like,
to be open to change in your life and to
not have this narrow minded view of things is just
(20:55):
like it's the key to freedom and happiness. Okay, we're
gonna take a break and we'll be right bay and
we're back with aviy wand back Olympic gold medalist and
author also. Okay, so we have some questions, Catherine, like,
we have some callers. Let's get going. Let's see what
we've got on the deck for today.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
This next question I think fits in exactly what we
were just talking about. But Allison says, Dear Chelsea, I've
gone through some changes in the last six months and
have become very introspective and reflective. I've started working on
myself in order to be more confident and happy in
my life. And one thing I'm looking for help with
is forgiving myself of awful things that I've said to
(21:37):
people in the past when it was insecure and hurting. Obviously,
I would never say these things now that I've grown
as a person, but sometimes when I'm meditating or just
thinking to myself, a memory reminds me of a time
when I was a manager in retail and snapped at
a subordinate or didn't take someone's mental health issues seriously.
I've also said mean things when my temper flares up.
(21:58):
I won't remember saying it, but my sister said that
I really hit below the belt sometimes when I'm mad,
As I've learned to calm down and not lose control.
Thanks Chelsea, I hardly get mad anymore and have learned
to take a beat before responding. I know I need
to stop beating myself up about it, but is it
really worth apologizing to these people for things I said
years ago. I know we give ourselves closure, but I'm
(22:18):
wondering if others need that too. Thanks so much for
all your help. This podcast has been a real part
of my progression and self awareness. Sincerely, Allison and I
should say her subject line was therapized and ready to apologize,
So therapy has been a big part of this transition,
I think for her.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
I mean that's a very interesting question because it's like
how big was the infraction and how offensive were you
and is there a need to apologize so many years
later If it was, like, you know, you snapping at
an employee, I mean, if you really feel the need
to go and do that, then yes, go, but also
it should be measured, like don't bring up something that
(22:56):
someone is probably not going to even remember. I mean,
it's a nice it's a nice idea, but it's more
kind of selfish than anything else in terms of if
it wasn't a big deal and you're just like, you know,
trying to make yourself feel better. I mean, you obviously
know if there are people in your life that you
really hurt, and that starts with your family and your
closest friends. When you're talking about employees, and if there's
(23:19):
like I would say, there's a statute of limitations with
regards to employees, Like if it was five years ago
and you snapped at someone, I don't know that you
need to send that person a letter. You can but
that's up to you. I just don't think that's a requirement.
If your sister has called you out on it repeatedly,
then that's the person you need to apologize too, and
any other people that have called you out on it
(23:40):
and said that their feelings have been hurt. And I
personally subscribe to this theory of you always get a
chance to make a new impression. And while this isn't
true for everyone in your life, you usually circle around
the people that you've hurt as an opportunity to resurface
in a way where they can see that you've changed
(24:01):
and they can see your growth, and you can act
in kindness and you can kind of make a new
impression to replace the last impression. I believe that to
be true. That has been true in my life, and
when I have that opportunity, I take it. So it's
more of like the opportunity presenting itself and me taking
it and leveling up to that moment, not seeking out
(24:22):
the moments. But that's just me. So it's whatever is
going to be best for your development and your peace
of mind. But also just think about when you're dealing
with these instances, who has really been heard and who
was just like, okay, whatever, that's just you know, a
moment in a day that they're nobody's going to remember totally.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
I also, I just want to add it sounds to
me a little bit like you have a little bit
more work to do in the self forgiveness department, because
once you can access and create a relationship with yourself
around that kind of forgiveness of maybe what headspace you
(25:03):
were in, or what protective parts were rising up in
you to say these you mean things, or whatever it
might be, if you do actually truly understand those elements,
then self forgiveness can come because you can understand that
you were just trying to protect yourself for whatever reason.
(25:23):
We all were born and raised in different families, in
different houses, with different belief systems. You have different traumas,
you have different backgrounds, you have different experiences than all
of the people that you meet in your life that
give evidence as to why we respond in certain circumstances
rather than others. And I think that if you can
do a little bit more digging as to the why
(25:46):
of where you were at the time, what made you
respond or interact with people in certain ways that now
make you feel bad there was. I mean, this is
the work for me that I've done in my sobriety,
because you know, the shame is what just took me
down for so many years and kept me in the fight,
(26:07):
kept me in the grips of addiction for so long.
And until I figured out that addiction was serving a
part of me, that it was protecting me, that it
was protecting me in some ways, I was then and
only then able to forgive myself for the self harm
that I was inflicting upon myself. And that is when
(26:30):
I realized, oh, okay, then the amends come out because
you don't have shame around the action. So then you
can go and say all of your apologies, whether they
land or not is not your business, right. You only
can clean up your side of the streets. So that's
all I'll say.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
I love that. Yeah, I think that's very true because yeah,
we can also labor like our bad behavior, and it's
like that's not an act of kindness or forgiveness to
anyone either sitting there and ruminating over what you did
what you did. It's like you should also be able
to recale great your focus on the future and changing
that behavior and not repeating past mistakes right, and that
(27:05):
also gives you a sense of, oh, okay, some of
those apologies may not be necessary because you've actually learned
that you can do better when you know better.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, and I think you know, if you do decide
to like DM an old coworker or you know, discuss
it with your sister. I think Chelsea's point of not
making it about yourself is really important. So like, rather
than saying I've changed, I've changed, just like focus on
like here is my apology for how I was before and.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Making it light like, you know, I've been doing some
work on myself and I felt like this might have
been a pretty crappy thing to say to you at
this time. Just want to let you know I apologize,
you know, and then that's actually takes it all off
of your plate and you don't have to even look
for a response, and if you get one, great, And
that's a generous, gracious person.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Yeah. Where our next question comes from Aarin. She was
a graphic designer. Aaron says, Dear Chelsea, on your episode
with ze Way, you talked about aging and how there's
a double standard for women. I've been thinking more about
that and wanted your advice. I've always looked quote young
for my age. Recently, several people have told me how
(28:11):
young I look. These were isolated events and by themselves
didn't bother me, but the collection of experiences have me
feeling self conscious. On one hand, I'm youthful and society
tells me that's a good thing, and I'm so lucky.
On the other hand, as I advance in my career,
I wonder if my appearance is holding me back. I
work in a male dominated field world really and feel
(28:32):
like I'm already second guest because I'm a woman. I
worry that looking younger is not helping my case. I've
been interviewing for some jobs, and some are in leadership positions.
My mom suggested I wear more makeup and interviews to
look older, but first, I suck at makeup, and second
it seems disingenuous. I want to be respected for being me.
I've seen a lot of sexism in the corporate world,
(28:53):
and I'm definitely jaded. I just don't know what to
do if I need to change my appearance, dress more mature.
I've even considered wearing fake glasses to get more respect.
Any advice would be great. Aaron hi erin Hi yo,
yo yo.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
How's it going? Thanks for having me? Yeah, this is
Abby wamback our special guest for today. Hi Abby, what
are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 5 (29:16):
Well?
Speaker 3 (29:17):
I have a lot of thoughts, mostly because I haven't
subscribed to the patriarchal ideas of what womanhood could be.
I've kind of gone the opposite route. However, I've recently
texted Chelsea a couple of months ago because my face
(29:37):
is starting to get older and I'm getting you know,
crows feets and discolored eyes, the whole thing. So trying
to figure out what the next steps are because you
are going to get older. I do understand that it
might feel bad to present younger and you aren't getting
(29:59):
the same kind of spect I also think you teach
people how to treat you one way or another energetically.
I mean, I kind of like the idea that you
might be seen as like an underdog. I thrive in that, like, oh,
you think that I'm young, Oh you think I'm not
(30:19):
good enough, Like, oh, I can't wait to prove you wrong.
To me, it feels like it can be a positive,
but I totally understand how it can feel lonely and
debilitating on some level to try to progress in your career.
I'm not the person to talk about makeup with because
I'm like, no makeup is the best option.
Speaker 5 (30:38):
I'm kind of same boat.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
So yeah, yeah, and I don't think that. I mean,
how old are you? I'm twenty eight, Okay, you you
look like you're twenty eight to me, I don't.
Speaker 5 (30:48):
I feel like, Yeah, everyone else in my life lately
I've been telling me differently, so that's good to hear.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
I guess, yeah, I hate the idea. I mean, my
dad with my friend with this recently, or my friend
is dealing with this in her job recently, that she
needed to be dressing in a certain way for men
to take her seriously. And I take a lot of
offense to that, Like, I really don't think we should
be reorganizing our looks to make people respect us more.
(31:15):
That's not where respect comes from. Yeah, you want to
throw on a pair of glasses, great, okay, But it's like,
it's your disposition and it's your self assuredness that are
going to gain respect from others and your work and
your performance at work. So when you sharpen all of
those things and focus on the task at hand. It's
going to be indebutable, like how valuable you are based
(31:35):
you know what I mean, Your looks are going to
become they're they're the first thing that people see and
the first thing that people ingest. Unfortunately, but that doesn't
have to be the way it remains. And I think
our behavior dictates how we are treated in a workplace,
even when you are surrounded by men, because eventually, after
enough time goes by and you prove yourself to be
a valuable employee, people are going to respect that and
(31:58):
expect you to deliver value. Right, They're going to expect
And so I think the quickest road there is the
direct one where you're just proving by your performance how
valuable you are and standing assuredly in your own shoes,
you know, standing up tall, standing up for yourself, not waffling,
not wavering. When men are trying to intimidate you, or
(32:20):
they're just intimidating you and they're not trying you, Actually,
that's a signal for you to be like, Okay, this
is my opportunity. This is my opportunity to stand my ground.
This is my opportunity to make a contribution here, Whether
it's conversational. Whether it's like workflow wise or it's about
a project, it's actually like an opportunity to gain respect
each time that you deliver something of value. Because what
(32:41):
I'm hearing from you is that you have a lot
of self respect, right yeah, so use that in your job,
and then that is going to be an undeniable thing
to people. Once you just keep putting that foot forward,
people are going to realize your value and you're going
to get past the hair and the makeup and all
that bullshit. That's all noise, that's I'm not real. Nobody
(33:01):
can be judged solely based on their appearance. That was
a very hard lesson for me to learn, because I
believe everyone was supposed to be physically attractive for me
to connect with. That's what I believe. For a long time,
I was like, Oh, I don't like the way that
person looks. I don't think we can connect. It's like, wait,
what I mean? People aren't here to physically please me?
So it's actually so the opposite is true for you too,
(33:22):
Like you know you're you are physically pleasing too many people,
but that is not where your value comes from. So
the two things are very separate, and they should stay separate,
you know. And I wouldn't count out to what any
anybody's expectations are. You don't need to dress up or
any of that bullshit. That's just that's nonsense.
Speaker 5 (33:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
You stick to what you know, and you stick to
what you're good at, and people will catch on.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I also think you said something in your letter that
is really important. You said, I'm starting to become self conscious,
and that is problematic when you start only seeing herself
through the eyes from other people towards yourself. Becoming self
conscious is to become aware of who you are and
(34:08):
then to see out with your own eyes, to become
the positive way of being. Like, to know thyself is
such an important quality. But watch the vantage point. The
vantage point is really important when it comes to self consciousness.
And I think that the male gaze we forget that
(34:29):
we shouldn't be putting our consciousness in the eyes of
the male gaze.
Speaker 5 (34:33):
Yeah, that's something I struggle with for sure. It's how
people perceive any constent.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
Yeah, y yes, I mean welcome to humanity, right, I'll
do it. Instagram, all social media. It makes us all
fucking crazy like that. But at the end of the day,
you have to figure out what you want to feel
and how you want to look. I mean, our kids,
they use makeup and stuff, and we are conscious. We're
(34:58):
always trying to ask. I'm like, are you doing this
for you or for other people? And they know better.
They're in high school now, they're like, I'm doing it
for my own sense of self and we're like, okay,
like we'll figure we'll deal with that problem another day.
But that self consciousness piece was something that really stuck
out in your letter.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, that's a good that's a good point.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Yeah, And I think people are sort of simple when
it comes to like someone wearing a power suit and
a pair of glasses. Might you know, some people might
think they're smarter or more powerful, but you have to
do what makes you feel powerful when you're going into
these interviews. And to me, it doesn't sound like throwing
on too much mescara is going to actually make you
feel more powerful, right, It'll make you feel a little awkward.
So I think, yeah, going in with the look that
(35:43):
makes you feel most powerful, and also like you seem
like a very confident person, so like really channeling that yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Yeah, And Resting in who you really are is actually
the most powerful version of yourself that you can be,
regardless of whether what situation, whether it's a work dynamic
or whether it's a personal dynamic or it's a new
person dynamic that you don't know. Resting like not pushing
and actually resting in who you are, being present minded
(36:10):
when you are there and you are in focus, that's
what creates a flow state. That's what when you are
really there, like working to the best of your ability
and focusing on what your strengths are, knowing that you're
of value like that projects to the next person, then
that comes off of you and then that's that's kind
of an undeniable way to be. You know, people can't
(36:32):
argue with that because they don't know what it is,
but they know that they need to respect it.
Speaker 3 (36:36):
That's right.
Speaker 5 (36:37):
Well, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (36:39):
Well you're welcome, so much, good luck and thank you.
So go into your next meeting and tell all those
jackasses to go fuck off. I will perfect tell them
I sent you.
Speaker 4 (36:49):
Oh bye, okay, all right, well, our next caller is Chloe.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Chloe says, dear Chelsea, longtime fan, love the show. I'm
in my mid thirties and have been with my husband
for over ten years. We met in my early twenties
and have had a really great relationship. We've always been
a bit different, me being more adventurous, outgoing and a dreamer.
He's more down to earth and practical. He's handsome, has
a good career, and has always treated me well. I
(37:22):
always thought that our opposites attract type relationship was a
good thing, but as the years have gone on, I
feel like we've only grown more different and this has
caused a lot of resentment. I feel like I'm being
stifled and not living to my full potential. In an
effort to help him feel more comfortable, I have a
lot of things that I'm passionate about, my career, home renovation, travel,
I fucking love skiing, and my friends. And side note
(37:45):
about the home renovation, they recently purchased like a house
to restore together, and I think that's been sort of
a bone of contention. All of this can be very
overwhelming for my husband. Additionally, I've always been straightforward about
not wanting kids, and although he says he's okay with this,
his words and actions throughout the years make me think otherwise.
I don't want either of us to have to compromise
so significantly for the other. And there hasn't been cheating,
(38:08):
lies or scandal that people typically associate with a good
reason for divorce. So am I wrong to feel that
I might want one? I recently asked him for a
trial separation and he has been devastated by this. Although
some friends are very supportive, others think I'm crazy for
leaving such a good man. Sometimes I do too, as
an outsider. Do you feel my concerns could warrant a
divorce or do I try and work it out? Chloe?
Speaker 6 (38:30):
Hi, Chloe, Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 2 (38:34):
Hi?
Speaker 1 (38:35):
How are you? This is Abby, our special guest.
Speaker 6 (38:37):
W I'm back Hi Abby, Hi Chelsea, Hi Catherine.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Hi, Hi Chloe. So you asked your husband for a
trial separation, but you're not separated yet, not officially. So
listening to your letter be read by Catherine, I did
not think you were going to go there. Can you
get into more specifics of what drove you to this separation.
It seems that he's leaning on you a little bit
(39:02):
more heavily.
Speaker 6 (39:03):
Yeah, yeah, you know, I think that you know, with relationships,
it's never like one. I mean it can be, but
a lot of times it's never just one specific thing.
And I think that the final breaking point for me
is we have this incredible, incredible home that I'm obsessed with.
(39:26):
It's kind of like my project. It brings me a
lot of purpose and joy. He fucking hates it, and
we just kept arguing about it, and really it was
just the culmination of everything of where our relationship was going,
you know, him wanting maybe a little bit more of
a simple life, simple career, you know, maybe starting a family,
(39:49):
and me going in this other direction where I'm really
growing a lot in my career, growing a lot in
my passions. You know, I still like absolutely love to
travel and be with my friend and have a really busy,
crazy life that doesn't include the family. And there was
just something that happened with this house that we have
(40:11):
that was just a breaking point. I was just like,
I gotta, I gotta step away from this. I just
don't know if we are headed in the right direction anymore.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, it sounds like he shouldn't be a part of
that project to begin with, because, first of all, the
number one reason couple's breakup is from a house renovations
that happens I've been in. I was in a relationship
with a man we were building. We bought these things
and we were renovating them, and our designer was like,
the number one reason couple's breakup is because of this,
and I was like, oh my god, who are those
(40:42):
people cut to? We fucking broke up. So, I mean
because he was so annoying about this, and I was like,
I don't give a fuck, Like I couldn't believe he
wanted to go to all these appointments with me, and
it was just so annoying. But like, it's not for everybody.
That's your passion clearly and not his. So like does
he need to be involved?
Speaker 6 (41:01):
So we tried it both ways. We've flip flopped it
several times. We've had this home for about five years now,
and we've tried it where he's fully involved. We've tried
it where it's partly involved, completely not involved, and none
of the options have worked.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
None of the options have worked.
Speaker 6 (41:16):
None of the options have worked.
Speaker 1 (41:18):
Okay, and so you think a trial separation is where
you're at.
Speaker 6 (41:22):
We are in trail separation right now. But we've been
doing this now for a while, probably about six months
or so, and I think where I'm at right now
that I really need some help and advice on is
I don't feel any different than I did when I
asked for this. You know, when I asked for this,
I actually felt really relieved. And the things that I
(41:45):
do that are kind of separated from him excite me.
And when I think about getting back together, I'm like,
it gives me a lot of anxiety, to be honest,
and the hard part is is he is overall a
very good man. He is honest, he is good looking,
(42:05):
he has a great job, He's always been very good
to me. But I feel like I'm at this breaking
point of like, is this still what I want to
do for the rest of my life? I'm fucking scared
of being alone. Am I giving up somebody who is
a really, really good person who loves me a lot,
just for the sake of more freedom?
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Are you guys in therapy?
Speaker 5 (42:30):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Yeah? And has that gleaned any different feelings for you?
Or is it just not really?
Speaker 6 (42:37):
I feel like it's just a competition constantly of like
who's the better person or who's the worst person. I
feel like we've changed therapists three times, and unfortunately way, you.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Should change therapists if they're not working. That's what the
problem so many people is that they think that they're
stuck with the one they found. It's like, no, there
are a million therapists out there. Well, they may be
very busy right now, there's always somebody else, you know,
but I don't know. I mean, from what you're saying,
it seems like you have one foot out the door
and you are out the door. And I mean a
(43:12):
lot of people would be listening to this, and I'm
sure are going, what's this woman's problem? You've got all
these things that so many women would want, but it's
still not enough for you. And that's fine too, Like
you should know what's enough for you if this is
going to fulfill you. You're saying that you're being excited by
all these other things outside of your life that aren't
involved in your marriage. I mean, that's your answer right there, right,
(43:34):
And you want me to tell you to leave your husband? Gosh,
I don't.
Speaker 6 (43:40):
I mean it's so fucking hard, you know, Like, yeah,
you're right. A lot of women, including my friends, including
my mother, they're all like, are you crazy? You know,
he's crazy about you and you've got such a good
thing going that so many people want.
Speaker 5 (43:55):
But I don't know.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Maybe I am crazy, and maybe I don't.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
I don't think you're crazy. I just I just want
to acknowledge all the women that are listening to this
thinking because I know they are going, oh my god,
what's this woman complaining about? And I would like to say,
good for you for knowing that this isn't enough. Like
it's good for you for being in touch with yourself
and enough to know, Okay, I'm scared of being alone,
but I'm not scared enough to not do it. That
(44:20):
is a very powerful thing for a woman to feel,
and I applaud that. And I think that you know
the answers to these questions. And so I'm not going
to give you any answers because I'm not going to
decide your relationship for you, because you've already figured it out. Abby,
You're nodding, what are you thinking?
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Well, I think that I don't know, Chelsea. I don't
think you've been married and divorce right.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
No, No, I didn't want to get divorced, so I
didn't get married.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Yeah, so I think I might be the only one
who's been through a divorce on this on this.
Speaker 1 (44:48):
Little perfect what don't you take it?
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (44:52):
And I mean, Chelsea, you said it right. It sounds
to me like you already know what you know and
you're pulling the crowd with which you know. All of
these people, myself included, can give you all the advice
in the world, but you're the only one that really
knows what you want. And people grow apart. I mean,
(45:13):
I cared so much for my first wife, like we
were mad about each other, and then things change, Life happens,
You get to change your mind, you get to go
in a different, a totally different direction what I want
to say. And this was true for me, and I
think it's true for all of us. There's something inside
(45:35):
of you. Might be deep, you might be just starting
to listen to her, but there's a part of you
that is inside of you that you are listening to
and it's always been there, And just turn up the
volume on her a little bit now. Doesn't mean you're
going to get a divorce. I have no idea, but
there's something that it's trying to say, and I think
(45:56):
that you deserve to sit and listen to that little
part of you you and ps no matter what you decide.
I'm here to tell you it's going to be okay.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah, yeah, it is.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
It already is okay because you've got you. And that
was one thing that I forgot when I was going
through my divorce because I was so a mesh with
my ex that I forgot that I had me independent
of that other person. And that is a hard truth
to swallow, especially because you committed to this marriage. And ps,
(46:31):
if you do choose to get a divorce, that does
not mean that your marriage was a failure. These are contracts.
Maybe your contract with this person is up. That's for
you to decide, and it's gonna be okay. And I
know how fucking hard it is, and I'm sorry because
it is a really big stress and it is hard.
Both things can be true at the same time. Staying
(46:51):
is hard, leaving is hard.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (46:55):
I mean so much of what you said hits so true.
I do feel like there is this internal voice that's
just like screaming that something's not right.
Speaker 3 (47:06):
Chills. I just got chills all over my body.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
And also, you know it's not going to feel like
this initially, but when you leave a situation that isn't
right for you. You're acting in service to both of you,
to you and your husband, because he deserves to be
with someone who does love him and who he can
share his life with and you know, not have to
have a person there kind of figuring out.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
There is no such thing as one way liberation. Liz
Gilbert says that there is no such thing as one
way liberation. You will be doing him a service. Also.
Speaker 6 (47:40):
Oh, I believe that too, you know, especially with the
Although he says that he is happy enough with me
to stay with just me together without having a family,
I do think deep down that's really what he wants
to and I think that in this I could really
see that for him in the future, and I want
him to have that if that's what she really wants.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
Yeah, happy enough isn't good enough?
Speaker 6 (48:05):
So true?
Speaker 1 (48:06):
Yeah? Yeah, Okay, Well I'm glad you called in.
Speaker 6 (48:10):
I am so grateful and glad that you guys had me. Honestly,
I mean, I've tried a lot, tread therapy, tried taro
and tell a lot of things. I'm like, hey, I'm
gonna try Chelsea and whatever. Awesome guess she has on board.
Speaker 1 (48:23):
Awesome. Thank you so much for calling in, and good
luck to you, Thank you bye. That's a good caller
for our listeners to listen to.
Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, it's almost like the answer is easier when it's like, Okay,
this person is a monster. When the person's not a monster,
it's such a harder decision.
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Yeah, but it's like it's so powerful to just go
this is good, but it's not good enough. Yeah, this
isn't enough for me. Like that's our lives are supposed
to be as as great as we can possibly make them,
not just like Okay, I hit this marker, I'm good,
right Abby? What what you never? Are you? A? Seven?
Enthusiasts on the Enneagram? Okay, yeah, I'm an eight?
Speaker 3 (49:03):
What is an eight? Chelsea? What's an eight?
Speaker 1 (49:05):
An eight is a fixer like come in, fix it
and then but but harsh, like hard, like just wants
to come in fix everybody's problems and then fuck off.
That's exactly who I am. I'm like, please don't bother
me again. Okay, but seven, that's interesting to know the
enthusiast has has to do work on their shadows self,
because this enthusiast is like the happiest kind of number
(49:26):
on the on the spectrum. I think forward facing like
big vibes, good vibes, happy. Yeah, So that's interesting because yeah,
if I have this new therapist who says, like, if
this is true, the equal and opposite thing is true. Right,
if you're feeling great and you're feeling expansive and you
want and you're just joyful, like be careful because they're
(49:48):
the equal and opposite part is true too, and you're
just not tuned into that. And it's like, oh, Okay,
that's important to know. You know, everything is a balance,
You're not just nobody is one thing, and in fact,
if somebody is a lot of they're also a lot
of the opposite of that thing.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
That's right. And I think that I, I mean, my
whole family would describe me as like an M and M.
I have like a hard exterior shell, but I'm so
gooey and like soft on the inside. But because of
what I did for so long as an athlete, you know,
I basically put on armor to protect myself from these
(50:23):
parts of sadness or sorrow or heartbreak or grief. And
I did a really good job because I'm very strong
and I'm very powerful and I have a lot of willpower.
But yeah, I mean all the parts of yourself have
to get seen and they need the light of day.
It's hard work, I tell you what, It's not easy.
It's not easy to sit and literally sit in the
(50:46):
grief and let it drop from your head. You know,
I went through a few weeks of bargaining and trying
to find the justice in it and trying to understand
it and make meaning of it. And it's like, I
don't I don't think that that's you can't do grief
in your head. It's just got to go through you,
all through your body. And you know, Chelsea, I know
(51:08):
you lost your brother when you were super young, which
is a different experience. But it's just like it's the
worst and also oddly the best. It's weird to go
through the to go through it the way that I'm
going through it. It's like I feel like I'm really trying.
I'm honoring my brother, whatever the fuck that means.
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Well, I think as an adult, especially someone who has
been to therapy, you have way more tools to deal
with that kind of loss, and you can make more
sense out of it. Even though it's senseless, it is
a fact of life and a part of life that
we all have to deal with is losing loved ones.
And as we get older, we have more skill sets
and we have more capacity to understand that life is
(51:48):
bigger than what we know, and that we know less
than we think we do, and we accept that we
don't know and there are things we don't have answers
to and that we never will And so trying to
make sense out of death is pointless. There is no sense.
It's not sensical. It's the same thing that's what happens
in war. It's not sensical. There's no way to make
sense of it, you know. So I think you know
(52:09):
your body has to go through a grieving process separate
from your mind, and you have to have a lot
of work under your belt to understand the difference between
those two things, and that the that they your mind
and body work in concert, but they're also very disconnected,
you know, until you do the work to connect them.
That's why, like when people get nervous they start shaking
or they start quivering, it's like that's because your brain
(52:31):
is sending your body a signal that you're not comfortable,
that you're not prepared, that you're scared, that you're fearful,
that you're nervous, whatever those signals are. It's like, that's
how everything works in that circuitry. It's not easily measured,
so people don't take it seriously. You know, energy and
and body mind chemistry and connection. I mean, we're learning
more about it now, but it is fascinating and I
(52:53):
love to learn about that because you hear about so
many people. You know, they have a physical reaction to something,
but they don't understand why because their brain has repressed
that memory, but their body remembers that feeling.
Speaker 3 (53:05):
Well. Yeah, being an athlete, I think that, especially an
elite athlete for thirty plus years, I learned how to
mind over matter physical experience. So the suffering that it takes,
the lifting weights, the sprints, the diety like whatever it was,
(53:28):
I was able to do it. And so I have
this unconscious belief I think that I can beat grief,
that like, I don't need to do it because I
know how to mentally leapfrog all of these difficult things,
these outward these external struggles, and that just ain't it.
(53:50):
It's just not it. And I've thought a lot about
that in the last few months, like, oh my gosh,
this is unlike anything I have been tested at and
it's confusing for my body because my body's like, we
can do anything. You are a superstar, like what's happening,
And my body's like, Nope, can't do it. Like just
(54:12):
even these last two weeks, I've been like I can't
even go for a walk. I've just like kacooned myself.
And there's this little wise part of myself that's like
speaking up, going, yes, this is what you need. Be still.
You have used your body to jump out of grief before,
you have used your body to overcome and not pay
(54:34):
attention to some of this stuff. So it's to be still,
feel sorrow, feel sad, whatever it might be.
Speaker 1 (54:41):
Absolutely Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll
be right back to wrap things up with you. Abby
wan back. Okay, we're back, Abby. Thank you for your candor.
I loved hearing you talk about therapy. I'm sure many
of our listeners also loved it. It's so nice when
you are able to talk freely about getting help right Like,
(55:06):
it's such a gift to other people to hear that
you're not nobody's alone and nobody's going through it as
something that no one else has been through because that's
just not true.
Speaker 3 (55:14):
That's right. Every person on the planet has and is
or is currently experiencing something that you're experienced, Like this
experience down here is not one sided. We're doing it together.
Whether we will like that or not, it's happening, and
there are experts out there that can help navigate and
(55:34):
help us navigate for ourselves the life that we want
and the way in which we want to go about it. Right,
And I get that not everybody buys into some forms
of therapy, but there are so many different kinds of therapy.
You know, you have talk therapy, you have a lot
of psychedelic stuff that's happening in the world. You've got
(55:55):
for me, this IFS Internal family systems. People should look
into it because it's a totally different approach where it
makes it so much less personal, which feels counterintuitive, but
it really works for me because especially with all the
shame stuff that I could go down with it with
my addictive behaviors. There's just so many different kinds. So
(56:15):
maybe you go to a therapist and it doesn't work
for you, find a different therapist that's in a different
genre of therapy.
Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, IFS. I've read about and I'm interested and curious
to hear more about it. We should find somebody who
could speak to that. Catherine on the podcast because I
liked what I read so far.
Speaker 3 (56:32):
Dick Schwartz is the guy. We actually just had him
on our podcast. He's like the father of it.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
And okay.
Speaker 3 (56:39):
He took me, Glennon and Amanda through an exercise, an
IFS exercise, which I think you should just have him
on it. It's super interesting. I think that you would
actually really really like it, Chelsea, love it.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Okay, Well, we will thank you Abby so much. So
great to see you.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
So good to see you guys. Thank you so much
for having me.
Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah, anytime, take care and come back for sure. Okay. So,
Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is my game.
Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry I misspoke.
I have added more shows. I added a second show
in Vancouver, so I have two shows in Vancouver March
twenty ninth March thirtieth, I am coming to Calgary, Victoria, Colowna.
(57:23):
Then I've added another show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth,
So I have two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth.
For other shows in Australia at New Zealand, go to
Chelsea Handler dot com. And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman,
Oklahoma on May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which
is May fourth, and then I'll be at the YouTube
(57:45):
Theater May eleventh in Los Angeles with Matteo Laine and
Vanessa Gonzalez and Fortune Femster and Sam Jay. Those are
my updates and more shows are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 2 (57:56):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com
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