Let Them with Mel Robbins

Mel Robbins joins Chelsea this week to talk about the simple keys that changed her life and her new book, The Let Them Theory.  Then: A voter struggles to accept the values of those around her. A gay couple wants to start yet another podcast.  And a sister’s concern for her sibling may be the very thing driving them apart.

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. 

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy New Year, everybody, Happy new Year, Catherine.

Speaker 2 (00:04):
Happy Tuesday.

Speaker 3 (00:06):
It's a new year.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Twenty twenty four is over, twenty twenty five is here.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
Let's get queer, let's get used to it.

Speaker 4 (00:15):
Let's please do.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Also, we are now airing what are we doing on
YouTube now, Catherine?

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Airing our full episodes or.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes, we have full episodes available on YouTube as well
as some older episodes that we're putting out now. So
check for the weekly episode. They go up on Thursdays,
just like the podcast, and you know we're throwing an
extra old episode, okay, Fani, Great, well, great.

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Okay, yes.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
People ask all the time where they can watch the podcast,
so now you can watch it and it's the full episodes,
right Catherine.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
Yes, yeah, oh great, this is awesome.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Yeah, you're gonna love it. And you have a book
coming out.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
I'm coming out. I'll have what she's having ready for
pre order.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Comes out of my fiftieth birthday, Everybody February twenty fifth,
and you can also watch me on E on January
twelfth for the Critics' Choice Awards. I'm hosting again, so
I will be doing that. Then on February twenty fifth,
my book will be coming out and then I have
another surprise in March.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
So many surprises, I know, so many. I'm excited about
the New Year. I'm excited. Do you have goals set resolution?

Speaker 4 (01:15):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:15):
No, we come on, Catherine. I don't have time for
reading that bullshit.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
No, but we do have a very very special, motivational
New Year's guest who everyone is gonna love because she's
all over the place right now with her new book.
She's an author, she is a mind set coach and
host of one of the most listened to podcasts in
the world. Please welcome Mel Robbins. We have Mel Robbins

(01:40):
here today, you guys, which is I've ingested all of
Mel Robbins. I don't think there's a thing about you
that I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Know, and you still invited me.

Speaker 3 (01:48):
I know, I know. It's a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
It's kind of like when people drown themselves in information
about me. I always seem like I'm so sorry and
I ran and they're like, I've read everything, I've looked
at everything, I'm so prepared for this interview, and I'm
always like, I'm really so that you had to listen
to all that, which is exactly what you said to me.
When I ran into you the other day at some
podcasts we were both doing. You were like, I'm so sorry.
It was Mel Robbins week at my house. So we
are educated because I knew of you from social media.

(02:13):
But then when I read your story in your new book,
The Let Them Theory, I like that you also come
up with your own theories.

Speaker 3 (02:19):
I love that you talk in the beginning of the book.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
About your story, which is incredible, that you were eight
hundred thousand dollars in debt and you.

Speaker 3 (02:28):
Were at the end of your rope, uh huh, and
you had no.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Idea how you were going to pay, and you had
four children, and you had no idea how you were
going to pay your finances, and you guys were broke.

Speaker 4 (02:37):
And I was also fucking furious with my husband because
I thought it was his fault.

Speaker 3 (02:42):
Of course, and it's always everyone else's fault.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
And then you decided one day that you used to
start practicing five four three two one.

Speaker 4 (02:51):
Yes. Well, the story is that I was having this
moment if you've ever had a moment in your life,
and I know you have, which is why we like
each other, where you literally find yourself talking to yourself
out loud, and you're saying, that's it. No more drinking.
I'm not going to be bitch to everybody. I gotta
find a job. I got to get in shape, I
got to tell people what's going on. I got to

(03:11):
take responsibility for my life. And by God, melt when
that alarm rings tomorrow morning, you cannot lay there like
a human pot roast, marinating in your problems. You got
to get your ass out of bed and get those
kids on the bus. And at that moment, I swear
to God, a rocket ship launched across a television screen
at the end of a commercial, and I thought, that's it.
That's the answer. Tomorrow morning, when that alarm rings, I'm

(03:32):
going to rocket myself out of bed so fast. I'm
not going to be in that bed when that anxiety hits.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Now.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
I had had four Bourbon Manhattans that night, so it
could have been the alcohol that gave me that idea,
because I was drinking an awful lot back then. But
that was the moment that changed my life because the
very next morning, the alarm ring. And what's interesting about life?
And when I show you this, you will never unsee it.
And it's not my breasts, which you definitely don't want

(03:59):
to see right now, but we'll get a picture. We'll
get a picture of those. But there is this moment
that defines your whole life, and it's this five second window.
And it's the moment between knowing what you need to
do and actually doing it. And we make a critical
mistake where you know the thing that you need to do,

(04:21):
but instead of doing it, you stop and consider how
you feel about it. It's this moment of hesitation. And
as soon as you drift from knowing what you need
to do to thinking about whether or not you feel
like doing it, in that five second moment of hesitation
comes the doubt and the anxiety and the procrastination. And
what's happening in your brain I didn't know this at

(04:42):
the time, is that you're moving from being conscious to
switching into the default mode in your brain where your
patterns and habits take over. And I had a habit
of avoidance, AD a habit of blaming. I had a
habit of anger. I had a habit of hitting the
snooze button over and over and over again.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Like kind of like a victim mentality percent because.

Speaker 4 (05:00):
My problems felt so overwhelming that My response was to freeze,
and I didn't think anything that I was going to
do is going to matter, So why I do it? Right?
And that's what I find is a massive challenge for
most of us, that we all know the little things
that we could be doing that would make us a

(05:22):
little happier, healthier, Right.

Speaker 1 (05:24):
Right, that seemed like an uphill, almost insurmountable to even
get there.

Speaker 3 (05:28):
But they're not insurmountable.

Speaker 4 (05:29):
They're not insurmountable. But if you have the opinion, well,
why does it matter? Because in that moment when the
alarm ring and I remembered the rocket launch, and this
window of hesitation opened, and I go, I don't feel
like any out of it. It's dark, it's cold, it's
February in Boston. We're eight hundred thousand dollars in debt.

(05:50):
How is this going to help? And for whatever reason,
I just started counting backwards, just like NASA does, five four, three,
two one, and I stood up and it was bizarre.
And that was the first morning that I had gotten
out of bed when the alarm rang in months, And
so I went on with my day the next morning,
same thing. Now, what were you.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
Doing before that?

Speaker 1 (06:10):
You would just your alarm would go off and you
would just sit in bed and lie.

Speaker 4 (06:13):
I would rot in bed like most people and literally
over your pocket. I mean, if you think about those
moments where you wake up and you either hate your job,
or you're in a crappy relationship, or you're not happy,
or you're struggling with something. You wake up and you
don't want to face a day. And so instead of
facing the day, which would help, because once you get
up you can keep going, typically I would lay there

(06:37):
and as I would lay there and stare at the ceiling,
and that feeling of dread would come over my body.
My mind would then take over and start racing through
all the problems that were going on, and they just
started stacking up like a gravity blanket, pinning me there.
And then when you feel that you don't want to
wake up, what you want to do is avoid the day.

(06:58):
And so I would hit the snoozee and to try
to fall back asleep because I'm hoping that I'm just
waking up in a nightmare. This isn't actually my life.
And then ultimately it would get to the point where
the kids are standing next to me and the bus
is already gone. And now I'm like, Okay, here we
go again. And it's stunning how the smallest things can

(07:22):
feel impossible in life, impossible. And what I know now
is there's so much that explains why we're wired this way.
But I didn't know any of this then. I just
knew that my life was falling apart, and everything that
I cared about was circling the drain, and there was
absolutely nothing I was doing.

Speaker 3 (07:42):
That was helping.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
And yet I knew the little things that could help.
I mean, obviously, if you don't have any money and
you can barely put food on the table, you should
get a job. Right. If you are drinking every night
and then waking up with a hangover, it's not helping
you face the stuff. And so avoids became a chronic
habit for me, and this one little tool five four

(08:05):
three two one, and pushing through this sort of insight
that oh my god, there's a window of time between
knowing what you need to do and then your brain
killing your motivation to do it. And if you act
in that window, whether it's speaking up at work or
starting the hard conversation or getting your ass up off
the couch, and or.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
An example, you use in the book is like, you know,
someone asking you to dance and it being a great idea,
but then you think about it and you're like, do
I want to be.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
Dancing in front of all these people? Do I actually
want to get up and dance? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
And in that five seconds you lose your mojo when
you could have been dancing this whole time and having
a good time. Yes.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
And so you know, one of the things that I
point out that I love to point out when I'm
teaching this is if you think about the most famous
tagline in the world, just do it right? Those three
words right, just do it? What's the most powerful ward?

Speaker 5 (08:53):
Do?

Speaker 4 (08:54):
No, it's not it, It's just it's just I'm gonna
explain why if Nike's tadline had been do it, that's
not that inspiring. The word just acknowledges both your humanity
and your potential. See, they're calling you from the sideline
and inviting you to join in the game of life.

(09:17):
They're saying, I see you there, I see that you
want this, and I see you doubting yourself. I see
you questioning yourself. They're acknowledging the only thing that is
stopping you and it's that moment of hesitation where you
stop and think and you question yourself. And that was
my whole life. And so discovering this little tool five
four three two one both acknowledge the just you're hesitating,

(09:42):
and it became a tool that helped me push through
anxiety or fear, or procrastination or old habits to do
the little things that actually are everything, HM, just one
small move at a time.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
And so then this led to you getting and realizing
that you wanted to be a motivational speaker, right and
within that when you're talking about the little steps you
have to take in order to succeed and build a
life that you want. Yeah, you were motivationally speaking without
getting paid in the beginning.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
Yeah, So what happened is I used the five second
role to turn my life back on track over the
course of three years. And so I am in my
life outside of Boston five for three two one networking
until I get a job five worth three two one
finding a second job five or three two one, going
for walks like just one move one move on move
in complete survival mode, like I'm trying to pay bills,
I'm trying to get these kids to school. I am

(10:35):
trying to keep my marriage on track. I'm trying not
to be a raging bitch to everybody. I'm trying not
to drink myself into the ground, one move, one move,
one move at a time. And so I had never
told anybody about it, because, first of all, sounds stupid.
Oh Chelsea, you want to change your life? Count to five,
I'm out. Podcast interviews over. And I also had no

(10:55):
idea why it worked. I almost felt like I'd been
given this little magic trick. Maybe I was a witch,
Maybe there was some sort of spell I had learned.
And I get a call from somebody that I had
gone to college with and she's like, hey, now there's
this event happening in San Francisco and they are offering

(11:16):
two tickets to San Francisco and two nights at the
Saint Regis And all you got to do is talk
about career change. And you've changed your career so many times.
I thought of you. Now, I don't think that's a compliment,
But when you hear that you're eight hundred thousand dollars
in debt and you've got leans on your house, that
sounds like a vacation. Chelsey. So I'm like, I'll do it.
I had no idea what ted was. I had no
idea what ted X was. So I show up in

(11:37):
San Francisco and it's one of the first ever TEDx conferences.
It's not even registering that I'm going to walk on
a stage and there's going to be seven hundred people there,
and so they didn't really prepare you. You got nineteen minutes.
I had a cheesy slide deck. If you watch my
TEDx talk, you're witnessing a twenty one minute long panic attack.
Look closely at minute one and you'll see a crash.

(12:00):
That is the kind of rash people get when they
are drinking. And I'm darting around the stage.

Speaker 3 (12:06):
I sho watch this. This is the one where Chris
is in the audience or is that a separate ted talk.

Speaker 4 (12:09):
Oh no, that's the one.

Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's the one.

Speaker 4 (12:11):
And I'm darting in and out all over the place.
And I wasn't planning on talking about the five second roll.
I forgot how to end the speech.

Speaker 1 (12:19):
I remember that you were like, oh wait, I have
one more thing to tell you at the end, and
You're like, which, yes, why I'm fucking here In the
first place.

Speaker 4 (12:26):
Yes, and then the part that you didn't see, because
I ultimately had to write to them. I was so
disassociated at the end, I barely remember it, Like, as
I'm if I watched that video, I'm like, I don't
even remember being on that stage. And at the very
end after I say that, oh yeah, I'm like, oh,
and if you have any questions, here's my email address.
And I walk off the stage and I say to
my husband, Honest to God, thank God, that's over. Thank God.

(12:50):
Only those people saw that. This was the worst moment
in my life. And I went on with my life.
A year goes by and Tedex puts it online. I
don't even know it's online. Another years goes by and
it starts to go viral, and I start getting messages
at that email address and people are like, I saw
that thing. You didn't. I'm like, were you in the audience?

(13:10):
Like no, no, no, it's online. And so I would stay
up at night responding to emails from strangers because I
was so blown away that this little thing that I
invented was helping people stay sober, or helping them lose
one hundred pounds, or helping them change jobs. Because it's
a tool that helps you go from thinking about something
to doing it well.

Speaker 1 (13:30):
Also, it's also it would be elementary if it was
just five four three two one Get up. What you're
explaining is that if you miss that little window, you're
missing your day, you're missing your goals, you're missing your dreams.
So it's what your brain does, and that's an integral
part of it.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
Yes, And so then what happened is people started to
write and ask if I would come, like do that
talk at events. Now, Meanwhile, I'm a normal person. I
think celebrities like you are people that get paid to
do this. People have books, people that you know, have
a have some sort of thing to say and have
credentials to talk about this stuff. Like, I'm basically somebody
who's fucked up her life and I figured out a

(14:07):
simple thing to help me crawl out of the hole
that I had dug for myself and then fallen into.
And so I didn't even think that I would get
paid to do something like this. So I show up
at seven of different events. And here's the irony. They
were all women's events. So they're all women's empowerment events,
and I'm speaking for free, and I will never forget this.

(14:28):
I was at the Pennsylvania Women's Conference, and this would
have been probably two thousand and thirteen or late twenty twelve,
and I was in a room and the rooms are
starting to get a little bit bigger, and so they're
probably I don't know, seven hundred thousand people in there.
And this woman comes up to me afterwards, Honest to god,

(14:49):
she says, Mel, do you mind if I ask you
a question? I said, yeah, absolutely, And she says, you know,
I spoke this morning at another breakout session and I
just thought you were absolutely fan fantastic. But I was
just curious, have you gotten your check yet? I said, check,
you got paid for this? And she took a step
back and she went, oh my god, I just assumed.

(15:10):
I mean, you have a big breakout where I'm like,
you got paid for this.

Speaker 6 (15:15):
Now.

Speaker 4 (15:15):
Meanwhile, I'm still have leans on my house and I'm thinking.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I could make money doing this.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
And I thought, you are you are the world's biggest idiot, Mel.
And then I had a problem because I had no
idea what to charge because I don't have a book,
I don't have this, I don't have anything. I have
this ted talk and I'm now starting to understand the
value of it, because it is really like a credential
when it comes to keynote speaking. And so I came

(15:45):
up with this little thing that anybody starting a business
should steal. I basically said to myself, I'm going to
use the five second world to stop myself, because you
can use five four three two one to push yourself
forward or five four three two one to put yourself
in pause. And the next time somebody calls me and
they asked me if I'm available, I'm going to five
or ThReD you want I pause, and I say, yeah,

(16:05):
I think I could make it. And then I'm going
to say what's your budget? And then I'm going to
say five four three two one normally am double because
I didn't know what to charge right. So a couple
of weeks later, I get a call and it's from
a guy who's in Dallas. Then he's calling me to
see if I can come down and give a speech
at some big event where there's going to be a

(16:26):
bunch of people that are small business owners in it.
And I said, great, I think I'm available. How much
is it? He said, ten thousand dollars. I dropped the
fucking phone. I that was like almost four months of
my mortgage.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (16:44):
I had no idea. I was expecting five hundred dollars
and I pick up the phone. I forgot the second
part about doubling the thing, and I'm like, yes, yes, yes, yes,
And then a really important thing happened. I was so
nerve and I felt so unworthy of that amount of
money that I spent half of it with a graphic

(17:05):
designer because I figured if I had a fancy presentation
that that would make me seem fancy enough for that
kind of money. And the nerves were really important, and
the preparation was important because there are moments in your life,
these at bat moments where you step up to the
plate that you want to meet the moment. And because

(17:28):
I prepared, I stepped onto that stage and I destroyed it.
And he came up to me afterwards and he was like,
I have been in this business twenty years. You are
the single best female speaker I've ever seen in my life,
and your top three of all time period. Who runs
your business? And I was like, you do and he
has run my business ever since. Oh wow, in terms

(17:49):
of the speaking side of the business. And that next year,
forty seven speeches, the next year ninety nine speeches. The
next year was like one hundred and seventeen. And you know,
I was so committed to paying off our debt and
to paying our savings back. And because we had gotten
into that hole because when my husband went into the
restaurant business, when the first pizza joint was successful, we

(18:10):
were complete idiots. We cashed everything out, We took out
credit cards, a home equity line. We you know, what
could possibly go wrong, and everything went wrong. And so
when the business started to do this everything that we
had worked our whole lives for, I was forty one
years old. Three kids under the age of ten started
going down in the dream too. And you know, if
you're somebody that believes in manifesting, which I do, I

(18:32):
never made a vision board that was like divorce, alcoholism,
bankruptcy that was in part of the plan. And when
things go off the rails in your life, it's funny,
like it's super easy to give other people advice because
it's not personal, but when it's you and it's the
things that you're scared of or the things that you

(18:53):
care about that are breaking apart in front of your eyes.
You have a very hard time believing that these simple
things actually work for you. And so what the five
second rule taught me is it taught me that there
is a skill that we can all develop, and it's
a skill of being able to act in spite of

(19:16):
your feelings, being able to recognize when you're afraid, or
you're hesitating, or you're doubting yourself, and to either push
through it or rise above it, but to allow your
values or your goals or the thing that you really
want to be driving your actions versus feeling held hostage

(19:39):
by your emotions in the moment. Because motivations complete garbage
in my opinion, because it's not there when you need it.
And if motivation were available to us all at any time,
we would all have millions of dollars and six pack
abs and billion dollar businesses, and that would be that
motivation simply means you feel like doing something thing. And

(20:01):
what I've now learned, both through the experts that we
have on my podcast and all the research that I've
done for this book in particular, is that our brains
are wired to move towards what's easy, and when you're struggling,
like I was, struggling, it's easy to stand bed. Yeah,
and your brain is wired to push against and move

(20:22):
away from whatever feels hard, which sets up a problem.
And the problem is changing is hard, and so you're
never going to feel like it, but you can do
it anyway. And recognizing that it's going to be hard
and recognizing that you're going to feel resistance, that's just
part of the natural wiring your body. Recognizing that, and

(20:44):
then knowing it's a skill to go, Okay, this is
going to be hard. Fuck it, I'm going And that's
what my success is about. Like, my success literally boils
down to the fact that I get out of bed
on the days I don't feel like it, and every
day I do the grueling, tedious, annoying crap that leads

(21:06):
to incredible things over time.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
Well, right, and I think the productivity that gets more
productivity Once you do get yourself out of that spot
and you start to like work towards what you want
to achieve, then that starts to become more of a habit, right,
And you're so you're getting yourself out of one bad
habit and leading yourself to better habits that are gonna I.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
Mean, there's lots of ways, I still screw things up.

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Well, we always, I mean, that's exactly like, I'm always like, okay, positivity, optimism,
and in the last two weeks I'm like, get the
fuck out of my face to anybody, you know, like,
leave me alone, don't ask me to do one more thing.
I'm at the end of my rope. I'm like, I
want to be euthanized. I said that to my sister
O that she goes, well, at least you're voicing it,
because if you really wanted to euthanize yourself, you do

(21:49):
just do it. She's like, so, I know you're full
of shit. Anyway, I've been giving out your advice. When
yesterday we're on a podcast, I was like, listen, you
need to just follow the let them theory. But it
was too it was two call because we have live callers.
Your most recent book. That's just that just came out right,
This is just out. Yeah, they'll let them theory. Is
it three children you have for four?

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Three?

Speaker 3 (22:08):
Oh? Sorry, I said dogs and cage.

Speaker 4 (22:11):
Okay, you didn't chouragize who cares?

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, okay, maybe there is another one. Maybe maybe you
have another sibling you haven't met yet.

Speaker 4 (22:18):
That's why we won't do twenty three and eight. I
don't want I'm already paying for everybody like that, I
that I that I've created, so I don't need any hang.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
I'm sure some extras.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
They let them theory also would seem pretty basic, but
it's not basic for all of us. It's like letting
people do their things that really have nothing to do
with you. Letting go of control basically is like allowing people.
If someone wants to be an asshole, if someone wants
to be in a bad mood, if your kid doesn't
want to go to a party with you, let them,
let them stay home. Let that person be in a

(22:49):
bad mood, don't try to tinker with their mood to
make it what you want.

Speaker 3 (22:53):
It to be.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
Yes, which is advice that obviously everyone can use, and
which is advice. I'm very excited you're here today because
we have people who call in for advice, and it's
nice to have another sister to Leno. So we're going
to take a break and we'll be right back with
Mel Robbins. And we're back with Mel Robbins and her

(23:15):
new book, which is called The Let Them Theory.

Speaker 3 (23:16):
You guys need to pick this up.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
It's a great read, and I think there's a lot
of common allies.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
And you mentioned this within the book.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
You talk a lot about Buddhism or stoicism or letting go,
and well, hold.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
On a second, let me say something about this. I
don't believe in letting go.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
You don't, God, no, oh, I do oh.

Speaker 4 (23:34):
I don't let me tell you.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
About like the let them theory and letting go are similar.

Speaker 4 (23:37):
Not at all.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (23:38):
See, I've never been able to let anything go because
I'm competitive as hell, and when somebody says, mel just
let it go, that to me means admit defeat and
move on. And I don't like to let something go
or feel like I have to just give up because
it's out of my hands, and so I've never been
able to access that. To me, me, let them is

(24:00):
very different because when you say let them, you're seeing
what somebody is doing and you're allowing it without allowing it.
And when I say let it go, I feel defeated.
When I say let them, I feel superior. And so
it's this tool that allows me to not only detach,

(24:23):
but it allows me to feel in control and superior
to the things that are irritating me, or that are
worrying me, or that have hurt me. And so I
feel it is very different in terms of the emotional
experience and the psychological experience.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
I feel like letting go of things isn't about giving
up or defeatism.

Speaker 3 (24:44):
Like I feel like.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
When you can let go of something, it is very
analogous to what you're saying. You're kind of rising above it.
You're not giving into it. You're going let that go.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
That's not for me.

Speaker 1 (24:54):
I don't not I'm giving it away or I'm giving up.
It's almost like that's not my business either, let that go,
Let my grudge against this person go, let that go.

Speaker 3 (25:04):
I feel like it is very similar.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
But you are the author and it doesn't work for you,
so we'll agree to disagree on that. But all of
these are modes and ways to not focus on what
other people are doing and to focus on yourself and
the things that you can control.

Speaker 4 (25:17):
And here's the reason why this matters. The reason why
this matters is because you have no idea how much
time and energy you are wasting yeah on things that
either don't matter or that you will never be able
to control. If you feel tired or overwhelmed, or you
feel like you're last on your list, or you're just
not as happy as you would like to be in

(25:39):
your life. I'm going to tell you right now, the
problem isn't really you. The problem is you're unknowingly giving
so much power to other people, and that's what's draining you,
and that's why you have no time. And one of
the enormous benefits of learning how to use the let
them theory, both in relationships and in your day to
day life is it's the ultimate boundary between you and

(26:02):
the world because you get to choose when you say
let them what actually impacts you and what doesn't. And
what I was stunned by when I started using this
thing is I could not believe, first of all, how
many times I said it. So I must have a
lot of anger issues because I was in travel let them.
I'm at the cash registerance you want, let them. I
walk in the front door and my dog is barfed

(26:24):
right on the entry and my husband's somebody hasn't picked
it up. It let them, And it was like this
little lever that allowed me to go from not stressed
and on edge and kind of annoyed, but actually just
stay peaceful and unbothered. And when you can go through
life like that, you get your time back and you
get energy back, and that's time and energy that you

(26:47):
can pour into other things. And your whole experience of
life is determined by what you pour time and energy into,
and so it shifts absolutely everything.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Okay, great, I'm excited to take some collergies. Yeah, we
have What do we have first for Mel?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Well, let's start with Katie, She writes, Dear Chelsea, I
don't really know how to write a fun, kitschy greeting
with the current political climate, so I'm just gonna get
right down.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
I really forget about the politics when we're doing this podcast.

Speaker 3 (27:15):
It's such a nice reprieve. I forget what's happening.

Speaker 4 (27:17):
I know.

Speaker 2 (27:17):
I'm sorry to remind you.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
I would appreciate not getting any letters like this.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
But I saw you address this Mel and so with
let them theory, and so I thought this was a
good question for you. I'm a thirty four year old
white liberal female with she her pronouns that was very
unfortunately born and raised in a red state. I've always
viewed myself as a positive and understanding person that accepts
people's differences. It's a beautiful thing as long as we're
all treating each other with love and kindness. But with

(27:43):
over half the country voting and electing such an openly
hateful and dangerous human being, I'm really struggling to find
any positivity in my day to day life. I've gone
to great lengths to build the community around me and
to be supportive and safe for all people. But since
announcing the new president elect, I have covered that a
disgusting amount of my friends, family, and coworkers are actually

(28:03):
celebrating his impending presidency. I've been crying, screaming, and raging
about this for days, and I do not foresee any relief,
as I have suddenly found myself surrounded by hate and
without any hope for a better future. My community has
been dismantled, Our democracy, our very basic human rights and
bodily autonomy are at risk. And there's a very big
part of me that just wants to light a match
and watch the world burn. How do I, yeah, how

(28:26):
do I let go of this rage so I can
move forward and try to find a light at the
end of the tunnel. I do not want to let
this evil man turn me into a hateful and intolerant
person at rock bottom, Katie.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Mal why why don't you take the lead on this.
I'd love to go for it.

Speaker 4 (28:41):
I'd love to There was a particular line in there
that struck me. Can I see that absolutely?

Speaker 6 (28:46):
Here?

Speaker 4 (28:46):
It is I've suddenly found myself surrounded by hate and
without any hope for a better future. That was the
line that hit me the most, without any hope for
a few And the reason why that line hit me
is because this illustrates the problem with giving power to

(29:10):
other people. Why on earth would you put all of
the power for a better future in the hands of
one idiot who's running this country? And how dare any
of us forget the power that we have to make
an enormous difference no matter what the hell is going
on in our families and our communities, in our schools

(29:31):
and our relationships. You know what I can't stand is
that when I think about relationships, I see a spider web.
And when you're out in the morning walking the dew
hits the spider web. Right. That means we're all interconnected,
and we allow one person who has a narcissistic personality
or toxic behavior or a challenging demeanor or really bigoted

(29:53):
opinions to go in and tap tap tap that spider
web and impact all of us. I believe something different.
I believe that the person that is calm and peaceful
and rational and connected has more power than that person,
and it's time we all start using it. And so
it is appropriate to feel your emotions and let those
emotions come up. And the reason why you're writing I

(30:15):
want to acknowledge is important because you now understand that
those emotions that are very mentally healthy response to what's
happening around you. By the way, those emotions mean you're
working well. It means your mind and your body are
working the way that it should. So that's great, and
you're writing for help because you also know something else.

(30:36):
You don't want any other person, whether it's your family
members or the people that just got elected, or what
is going on anywhere around you, to impact your mental health.
And here's what I'm going to say. They don't have to.
And the reason why you have to say let them
is because the election's over and the people that you
care about have opinions that you do not understand and

(30:59):
arguing with them. We know, based on research just turns
off the part of the brain that has anybody hear anything,
And so being in conflict with people doesn't change them.
It actually creates more resistance to hearing you or to
changing themselves. And so when you say let them, you're
not agreeing with anything. You're not allowing anybody to trample

(31:21):
you or your right and you're.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Also not trying to convince anyone of anything. Yes, no,
because you can convince people. You're a highly influential person
through your behavior and your energy, and people only change
when they can or when they feel like changing. And
when you give people the space to come to their
own conclusions and you influence them through your behavior and energy,

(31:46):
they change on their own. When you engage in arguments
and battles and judgment over these things, even if your
judgments are right, and by the way they're judging you
and they think they're right, you create deadlock. And that's
what's wrong with the political system in most of the
world right now, is we're all in deadlock. And so

(32:07):
I'm not saying that what's happening is right. I'm not
saying that, you know, there's not reasons to be nervous.
What I am saying is this. If you don't let them, if.

Speaker 4 (32:19):
You don't detach from this, you're going to allow the
stress and anger and anxiety of uncertainty to hijack your
brain and you are not going to be able to
think strategically, and you are not going to be motivated.
And in a moment like this, what we need is
more light. In a moment like this, your job is

(32:41):
to glow. It is not to turn the light off.
And so I say, this is the perfect moment to say,
let them, because you recognize what's happened has happened. People
believe what they believe. Your power is not in managing that.
Your power is taking responsibility for how you're going to respond.

(33:02):
And let's even just look at the word responsibility. It's
the ability to respond. And in life you always have
three things. You have three things within your control. This
is where your power is. Number one, you get to
choose what you think. So you get to choose what
you think about what just happened, and more importantly, what
you think you're going to do about it. Number two,

(33:22):
you get to choose what you're going to do or
not do. And I will remind you of that famous
professor Margaret read quote of it only takes a small
group of committed citizens to change everything. In fact, that's
the only thing that ever has. And if you don't
like what you see that person as you. And so
you get to choose not only what you're going to

(33:44):
do or not do, but you also get to choose,
by the way, whether or not you're going to stay
in a conversation or a dining room table, or a
family text chain, or a conversation or a date or
a job interview. You get to choose, which means you're
in power. And you also get to choose is what
you're going to do with your emotions. And if you're
tired of being angry, and I really acknowledge the fact

(34:05):
that you recognize that this is no longer a healthy
emotion for you, what I would focus on is I
would focus on going inward processing your anger, and then
I would focus on you doing what you need to
do to become the best version of you, because when
you do that, you are better prepared to face the

(34:27):
challenges in the world, the things that you care about,
and to get to work, because that's what we all
need to do.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yes, Amen, I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think that when you feel depleted and you feel angry,
you feel like you're at the end of your rope.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
You're in a weak in state.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
You are in a state where you're going to hate,
you're going to blame, and you're going to feel hopeless.
And it's your job to get you back into more
of an activated state so that you can actually spread
love and joyfulness and kindness even to the people that
you disagree with, because that is the medicine that everybody needs.
That's the medicine that's going to make you feel good
about what you're doing, and that's the medicine that is

(35:01):
going to spread around your community. Don't talk to them
about politics. Just treat them like human beings, and you
don't know who they voted for. Like even though you
know and it's bothersome to you, it's not your job
to sit there and judge them, you know, Like, we'll
all see what's going to happen in the next couple
of years, and it could be terrible or it could
not be so terrible.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
We seriously don't know.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
But acting or living in this kind of dread isn't
useful to anyone, including yourself. So you have to figure
out a way in the next couple of days to
five four three two one get up and do something
different other than feel sorry and hopeless about the future,
because that is not a way to effectuate change.

Speaker 5 (35:38):
You know.

Speaker 4 (35:39):
The other thing that I'm going to say is this,
So there's a tool that I talk about in this
book called frame of reference, because I'm never going to
tell you that if there are people in your life
that have very bigoted opinions or opinions about who you
are as a person, or your identity or who you love,
you still are in control of who you spend time

(35:59):
with and how much access people have to you. But
that is a deeply personal decision. What I have found
to be incredibly helpful to me because one of my
deep values is family, and there are people in my
life that have very different political opinions than I have.
And so I choose, because I think we all need

(36:20):
to get better at this. I choose, instead of judgment,
to go, how the heck could somebody that I know
is a really decent person than a smart person and
a caring person actually vote for this person? And so
instead of pulling back, I let them have their opinions

(36:40):
and their beliefs right, which creates space. It creates space
for two things to be true. I mean, I think
one of the reasons that their families is because it
teaches you how to love people you hate sometimes and
having the ability to give people the space to think
what they think and to have their opinions about things.

(37:02):
It's a way of loving people even when you disagree
with them. And so what I choose to do because
I'm like, I don't fucking understand how you like, I
know who you are, Like, this does not compute. I go,
how do I step into your shoes? And I actually
understand why this made sense to you. And I'm going
to give you my personal opinion. Everybody's distracted. Unless you

(37:27):
have a hyper bigoted like person. Most people are wildly distracted.
And if you look at the algorithms and you look
at the way everything changed in terms of you look
at one video, the algorithms show you fifty thousand more videos. Right.
Most people are getting their news on tikknok. Nobody trusts
any news source, and so you have all of this

(37:51):
information going at people, and so you might have somebody
go yeah, but the joint chiefs of staffs, I'm like
ninety five percent of people don't even know who that
is or what that is or why they matter. And
by the way, they didn't see it. And so now
you have a situation where you have tremendous amount of
pent up anger that is aimed at the government because
of the lockdown and the pandemic. Right, so, people are

(38:12):
in a stressed out state. In fact, doctor Aditi Neurokar
from Harvard, one of the most respected stress management doctors
in the world, believes that eighty three percent of people
in the United States are any chronic state of stress,
which means you're amygdala is on and you're in fight
or flight. When you're in fight or flight, you can't
really think critically. When you spend six hours a day

(38:34):
on social media, which is what the research now shows
the average person does. Oh my god, I mean kids,
it's like twelve. And I'm putting this in context not
to justify anything, but because I choose to want to understand.
And that's what we have lost is a skill in
terms of human relationships. And when I look at all

(38:55):
of that and I go, oh, there's a lot of
frustration and pent up anger that people have about what
happened these last four years and how they feel about
the new normal and hybrid work and the rise of
costs of things, and everybody wants to blame everybody. Look
at me when I was so in debt, who did
I blame my husband? And so it's easy to blame.

(39:16):
And when you go into the election booth and you vote,
you literally have the capacity to remember just about one thing.
I remember this as a young trial lawyer when I
was a public defender at Legal Aid, the OJ case
was happening, and so a lot of our supervisors when
I was a public defender would talk a lot about
the fact that when you're doing a case, cases come

(39:38):
down to the thing you want a jury to repeat
when they go back to deliberations. And if I to say,
even to my daughters who are in their twenties, if
the glove doesn't fit, you got to acquit. You know
exactly what case I'm talking about, even though this was
decades ago. Please tell me the Democrats tagline right, and
whether you vote for one side or the other, the

(39:59):
other backline is nostalgic and personal. So everybody actually thinks
it means something else. And so if you have people
who are stressed out getting their news on TikTok, going
in and going Okay, well, who's going to do better
by me? Guess who they choose. And so that's how
I have come to rationalize. Oh, that's how I understand

(40:21):
even though all these other things don't line up with
your character, how you would make that decision. M right
and so. But this is the most important part. You
get to choose. You get to choose if the person's
opinions are that offensive to you. You get to choose
how much time and energy you put into it.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
And you also get to choose how much grace you
you know, you are able to demonstrate for a person
who has such conflicting and opposing views because.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
You there's a lot of sources.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
There's a lot of joy in that as well, being
graceful for another person's opinions that don't mesh with yours.
I think that's a nice skill set to learn and
something you should think about, you know, moving forward, once
you get out of this funk, which you are going
to get out of this funk.

Speaker 3 (41:07):
Okay, what do we.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
Have next, Catherine? I want I want to get as
many callers on as possible.

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Subject line is anxious gay with therapist, husband seeks podcast help.
Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty night.

Speaker 3 (41:20):
If we're putting it in terms we can understand. Oh,
but there they are.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
Oh Hi, So they say dear Chelsea. And this comes
from Anthony. At first, he says, I'm a thirty nine
year old married gay man. My husband, Justin and I
have been together for twelve years and married for almost two.
He's a licensed therapist, very level headed and soft spoken.
And then there's me, not a therapist, slightly neurotic, a
bit of an oversharer, and kind of all over the place.

(41:46):
Think the gay version of Jenny Mullin, obsessed with his
exes and all. A lot of our friends find our
dynamic fascinating and entertaining. So I thought, why not start
a podcast, maybe even a YouTube or a TikTok account,
where we give opinions and advice on anything everything. Who
wouldn't want to get guidance from him? A real therapist
and they're kind of messy but well meaning.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Friend me.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
It sounds fun, but we have no idea where to start. Also,
the world already feels flooded with influencers and content creators,
so falling into that category. Is kind of embarrassing to me.
That alone makes me almost want to abandon the idea.
Love the podcast. It's where I got this whole ridiculous
idea from Love Anthony, and I guess justin ps, I
haven't told him a writing this in yet.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Hi boys, Oh hi, I you well, you're in luck
because we have a real ringer here today.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
Mel Robbins.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:36):
So, first of all, there is no bad podcast idea because,
as it has been proven, everyone can have a podcast,
and so having an idea in and.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Of itself is always possible.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
But if you're poo pooing the idea, if you find
the idea embarrassing, that's not how you launch a podcast.
You have to be committed and fully into it, because
I do think, I mean, just listening to you, I'm like, yeah,
why would that be a podcast? There's a lot of
gay out there just to start with that would be
interested in getting, you know, feedback from another gay couple.

Speaker 5 (43:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:07):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (43:07):
I guess mainly it's just not knowing really where to.

Speaker 6 (43:12):
Start.

Speaker 4 (43:12):
Yeah, really, I don't think that's your issue.

Speaker 5 (43:16):
Oh why says embarrassing, It's that's more of how he
describes his anxiety is well, your Instagram bios, embarrassed about everything.

Speaker 1 (43:28):
It's everything.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
No, no, let me let me tell you what your
issue is. You ready?

Speaker 6 (43:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (43:32):
Okay, yeah, I know.

Speaker 4 (43:34):
I'm serious. Your your issue is very clear to me.
And the issue is you're giving power to other people's opinions.
I do that a lot, yes, and so I'm going
to teach you how to stop doing that. Because if
you want something in your heart, the only person that
can stop you from doing it is you. And if

(43:57):
you are sitting there saying I would like to launch
a podcast, the things you need to do are easy.
Just google it and Ai'll spit out the seven steps
and do it. But what's going to stop you is
you're going to stop and consider what other people are
going to think about this. And that means you're giving
power to another person's thought. And here's the reason why

(44:21):
that sucks. The average person has seventy thousand thoughts a day,
and you will never be able to crawl up into
their head and manipulate what they think about you. And so,
instead of causing your self anxiety, and instead of navigating
your life trying to do things so that people don't
think something negative, I want you to do the opposite.

(44:43):
I want you to use my let them theory. And
when you feel anxious and you start to go, I
don't know what to do, and no, no, no, you're worried.
People are going to judge, and you're going to say,
let them think negative thoughts, let them judge me, let
them unfollow, let them not listen, let them think whatever
they're going to to think, because I know it's a
waste of my time and energy to try to manage

(45:04):
something I'm never going to be able to control. So
I'm going to let them think what they want. And
then you're going to say the second part, which is,
let me take the power back and follow the list
on AI and launch the damn podcast. Because when you
do that and you no longer allow other people's opinions
to be an obstacle, you're going to be proud of yourself.

(45:26):
And when you're proud of yourself, you won't give a
shit what anybody thinks, because you know who you are.
But as long as you're giving power to something you
can never control, which is what somebody else is going
to think, you will be standing in your way and
robbing yourself of the potential of your life for the
rest of your life. Do not do that. That is
a sad way to go through life. And you have

(45:46):
something to offer, and the fact that you took the
time to write in to Chelsea to ask about it
means you want to do it. So do not allow
someone else's opinion, which you cannot control, start saying, let
them have a negative opinion.

Speaker 3 (46:00):
This is the book, Yeah, go get at it. The
letter copy today. This is going to tell you exactly.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
This is going to tell you her story, how she
began everything she was facing, and how she got herself
out of it, and how she got herself into motion.

Speaker 3 (46:12):
And this is what you need to read.

Speaker 4 (46:14):
And we found out today we are the twelfth most
stream show on all of Spotify this year on her
A little bit about what I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Yeah, on the planet, Yeah, so fucking listen up. Okay, guy,
I let them think negative thoughts. And one more thing
about the influencer thing. You influence people. Now, everybody on
the planet is an influencer because we are influenced by
other people's behavior. And so don't let the label that

(46:43):
you will never be able to control anyway stop you
from going out and expressing yourself or trying to make
a difference let them.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, you'll also find in the first fifty pages or
so of the book that mel story is very similar.
How you were like, ah, this seems so, but you know,
went out and got headshots and made a website and
all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, I have nothing more to add to that, I
think she yeah, really kind of gave you your marching orders.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Boys. Well jeez, I guess so. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Yeah, And I think, yeah, use that and apply it
into all facets of your life, because while being inveterately
embarrassed or whatever your Instagram handle is might be cute
and funny, you're really giving a lot of people power
by having so many things that embarrass you. You can
be embarrassing without being embarrassed about it. Do you know
what I'm saying?

Speaker 3 (47:33):
No, yeah, I understand that makes sense. I'll go change
it right.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
Well, you know what you could also say, let Chelsea
have her opinion, and then let me remind myself that
I can choose what I think, and I can choose
what I do, and I can choose how I process things.

Speaker 2 (47:50):
So yeah, okay, and go have fun, do a fun
creative project together. This will be great, You'll have a
great time. Yeah, that's kind of how it all really started.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
I mean, yeah, we have a lot of friends who
are like incredibly supportive idea, Like they like they want
us to do it, they're begging us to do it,
and it's just one of those things. It's like okay,
like and there sounds good, right, but almost how will
it actually like be with people? Like, how will they.

Speaker 4 (48:14):
They're focused on the wrong thing, Yeah, and not look
at it. Yes, because here's the thing. You're not doing
it so people listen. You're doing it to prove to
yourself that you actually believe in yourself and that you
honor the things that you want to try. You're not
doing this so that other people like it. You're doing
it so that you like yourself.

Speaker 3 (48:36):
And by virtue of that, people will be interested.

Speaker 1 (48:39):
Yes, by virtue in your own self belief, people will
be interested.

Speaker 6 (48:42):
All Right.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
I love that.

Speaker 5 (48:44):
It's very growth mindset.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
Yeah, okay, all right, thanks. That sounds great. It sounds
like we fixed everything. Okay, Bye, boys.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
Yeah a problems bye.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
I thinks.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
Well, take a quick break and we'll come back to
wrap up with Mel Robbins.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
All Right, So our last one we have another caller.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
Let's do it.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Okay? Great. This is Brooklyn and she's thirty three. She says,
Dear Chelsea, my name is Brooklyn and I'm from Vancouver, BC.
I need some advice on what to do about my sister.
She's been involved with a man for four years now
that will not commit to her, which is a blessing
because he's the worst human imaginable. Him not committing makes
her want him even more. When he did quote unquote commit,

(49:30):
he cheated left, right and center. He's involved with very
dangerous people, himself being the main one. She's missing out
on so many opportunities to meet a great guy because
she's wasting her time with this low life. She's successful
in the beauty industry and consumes her life outside of
that trying to get his approval. All our friends hate him,
our parents don't want him around. This could ruin her life.
The potential is that bad? What do I do? Brooklyn?

Speaker 6 (49:54):
Hi?

Speaker 3 (49:54):
Brolyn?

Speaker 6 (49:55):
Hello?

Speaker 1 (49:56):
Hi, this is Mel Robbins, our special guest today.

Speaker 6 (49:59):
You guys are my talk to podcasts I listen to.
That's so crazy.

Speaker 4 (50:02):
Oh my god, Well thank you for that. Do you
do you want to go?

Speaker 3 (50:06):
And as me, you go take the leave.

Speaker 4 (50:08):
So is this the first time she's been in a
relationship with somebody who won't commit, or is this a pattern?

Speaker 7 (50:13):
She had a great boyfriend Okay, okay, yeah, so she's
had successful relationship.

Speaker 4 (50:18):
Well, I asked that because there's a lot of research
around this, and if it's a pattern, it's one piece
of advice. If it's not a pattern, it's a different
piece of advice. Part of the problem is that she
is in a dynamic with somebody that sounds like an
abuse cycle, where it's really good and then it's really bad,
and then there's an apology and then it's really good,

(50:38):
and that activates addiction circuitry in the brain, which makes
it very hard to leave. They've done a lot of
study about the fact that if somebody's bad to you
all the time, it's easier to leave. If somebody is good,
then bad, then they're really good, then they're bad, then
they're bad, then they're good. You don't understand like it's
you start kind of craving the good and you explain

(50:59):
away the bad, and so you're dealing with circuitry in
the brain that is hard to overcome. And the reason
why I'm going to start there is because people do
well when they can, and she's in a situation where
it doesn't sound like she can do well yet. And
I am going to highly recommend that you dive deep

(51:22):
into the let them theory, because she's not going to
leave him until she feels like it, and she is
going to stay in this longer if she feels judgment
from you guys, because the judgment or the distance adds
more shame, which makes her want to fix it more.

(51:42):
And she's got to have You're smart in not bringing
up but there's now this dynamic where she knows this
is not the right relationship and she's probably embarrassed about it.
And when you're in that situation, the only way to
redeem yourself is to somehow save the relationship, because if
she finally breaks up with him, what are you going

(52:03):
to hear? I told you so. And so you're in
this dynamic with her where there's a standoff and knowing
that she will do well when she can, and because
of the dynamic of this relationship, she can't right now.
And one of the best things that you can do
is you can approach this very differently. First of all,

(52:25):
have you apologized for judging. Have you apologized for pressuring her?

Speaker 6 (52:31):
No?

Speaker 7 (52:32):
I've kind of approached the conversation as I tell her
like I don't have anything nice to say, so I
don't want to say it anymore.

Speaker 6 (52:38):
Like that's kind of where that would end.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Uh huh okay. So there's something that I write about
in the book called the ABC loop, and A stands
for apologize and then ask open ended questions. And the
asking of the open ended questions is, well, how do
you feel about it? And is there anything that you
want to change? And then you say is there anything
I can do to be more supportive? And that's it.

(53:02):
And what you're doing is you're actually, in a non
judgmental way, you're creating space for her to talk about
what's working and what's not working. And she might lie
to me, Oh, everything's great. But here's the thing. Based
on the research, what you're doing by asking open ended
questions is you're raising tension internally because she knows it's
not working. Yeah, she knows this guy's a dickhead. She

(53:23):
knows that she deserves better, but she's trapped in it,
and so you're raising this tension that allows her to
start to face the thing that she's in. She's gaslighting
herself around, and then you're going to be back off
because people don't change until they can or they feel
like it, and nobody wants to change and be told
I told you so, So you're just back off and

(53:45):
give her space. But they I don't say anything. I
don't know what to say, so I don't say anything.
That's actually not an apology that you haven't backed off
yet because she knows you're judging her. That's why the
A part is important. Now you're going to back off
for at least three months, and then you've got to
just model positive behavior meaning acceptance, love, ask her bring

(54:07):
him around, no, like, hey, I want to see you,
And if that means he's coming to I'm going to
change how I am around him. And you're going to
notice something. She doesn't want him around because she knows
he's not good for her. Do you see what I'm saying?

Speaker 6 (54:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (54:20):
I like what you said because I think that would
bring us closer, because there's this divide between us where
we're not open anymore because we can talk about everything.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
Of course, well, because you're judging her, yes, and yes,
it's just him but no, no, no, no, no, hold on,
hold on. You don't get to pick and choose that way.
If you're judging the person I'm dating, you're judging me, okay,
And so when you judge another human being, that doesn't

(54:48):
create motivation for connection or change. It creates resistance to it.
And you're going to have to wrap your brain around
this is the hardest thing in the world to understand. You.
You are right, and wanting the best for your sister
is a beautiful and loving thing, and I want the
best for your sister and you too, But you're going

(55:09):
about it in a way that you're working against the
circuitry of the way that human beings are wired, and
it's creating pressure and resistance and distance, and that's not
what you want.

Speaker 7 (55:21):
Would this make a difference if he was dangerous?

Speaker 4 (55:26):
Yes? And the average domestic violence relationship. I was a
crisis intervention counselor on a domestic violence hotline.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Jesus, you really have had a lot of careers.

Speaker 4 (55:40):
It takes somebody an average of seven times to leave.

Speaker 7 (55:43):
It's not domestic violence. He's dangerous himself in his life
and his job in his life.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Choices understood and when that's the case. There's almost always
commingling of that type of violence in the relationship too,
whether it's emotional or physical, and there's a tremendous amount
of denial about what's actually going on. And so I
think you need to talk to somebody that has expertise

(56:10):
in domestic violence and in emotional abuse, because there's probably
a lot of narcissistic personality style things going on too.
And what the experts will tell you I would start
following doctor Romani di Versla, who's the world's leading expert
on narcissism. But what the experts will tell you is
that one of the hardest forms of abuse to unwind

(56:32):
in somebody is the abuse that you receive when you're
in a relationship with somebody that has a narcissistic and
controlling personality style. And so you need to look at
your sister as somebody who is in almost like a
hostage situation. She doesn't even know it. And again, people
do well when they can, and so you're when you

(56:54):
say let them, you're not allowing this to happen to her.
You're recognizing what's happen happening to her, and you're also
recognizing that you can't get her out of this. She
has to get herself out of this with your support,
and the only way that's going to happen is if
you can draw her closer to you, and as long
as you're judging her or she feels that you are

(57:18):
creating distance. And so this is a situation where I
would get support from a licensed therapist or counselor that
deals with domestic violence or narcissism brain circuitry, so they
can advise you on this. But you really want to
take an approach of open arms and no judgment and support,

(57:44):
and that's going to draw her to you. Does that
make sense?

Speaker 6 (57:48):
Yeah, it totally does.

Speaker 1 (57:49):
It's almost like you have to outsmart the two of them,
you know, instead of being reactive to the situation, you
kind of have to be the bigger person and see
the situation for what it is, which probably has an
expiration date, and getting closer to your sister rather than
pushing her farther away, is probably going to help expedite
that expiration date without you controlling the situation.

Speaker 6 (58:12):
That's so true, and I was doing the opposite. So
that's really good advice from both of you.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Great, if you give the producers your address. I'm going
to mail you a copy of the Let Them Theory
before it's even out, so that because you need to
read this right.

Speaker 6 (58:22):
Now, fazing. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (58:25):
That's all right, all right, Well take care and good
luck with everything with your sister.

Speaker 6 (58:30):
So much, Chelsea, thank you.

Speaker 4 (58:32):
You're welcome.

Speaker 6 (58:33):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (58:35):
Hie, you know what I wanted to ask you before
we wrap up.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
So then this book you talk about seeing like a
group of friends of yours going on vacation, which I
think is something that a lot of people can relate
to in the age we live in. And you were
fixated on this idea that you weren't invited to this
weekend and this girls get away.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
Even though you weren't very close friends.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
With these girls at the time, right you had known
them over the years. So have you had any interactions
with those women, like have they read this? They haven't
read this yet.

Speaker 6 (59:03):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (59:03):
I reached out to two of them, Oh, and let
them know. And like the story of the house, it's
like six different friends and I'm like, it's not just you.
And there's a person with queen bunk buds in there.
So here's the thing in the book, there's a story
where I see on social media that people have gone away.
And by the way, it's a mentally healthy response to

(59:23):
feel disappointed when you're not invited. That's a sign that
you're actually well. The problem is you then turn it
against yourself and believe that you've done something wrong. And
so having the let them theory was life saving because
normally I would have spiraled for weeks. I would have
distanced myself from people I deeply care about, and I
would have made up stories in my mind that made

(59:43):
me feel like some loser like I did in middle school.
And instead I said, let them, let them go away,
let them have a weekend without me, let them live
their lives. And then you have to say, they'll let
me part. And this is the part that nobody likes.
Everyone loves to get let them tattooed on them because
you feel superior. But the let me part is where

(01:00:04):
you have power and you take responsibility because then you go, well,
let me look a little deeper. If this hurts this much,
Clearly I value friendship, and now I got to ask
myself what am I thinking, doing or feeling about it?
And when I looked in the mirror, a Chelsea, I
was working so much, I had let my friendships go.
And it's no one else's responsibility to create those relationships

(01:00:26):
but mine. When was the last time I invited anybody over?
When's the last time I planned a week in a way?
When's the last time I picked up the phone and
asked any one of those women that I now felt
excluded from how they were doing. And the truth is
I hadn't done it in a very long time. And
so then you go, well, what right do you have
to expect to be invited if you're not even putting
in the effort. And so the let them theory also

(01:00:48):
reveals not just where other people are falling short and
where you need to speak up and talk about what
you need or how you may feel. It also reveals
where you are, where you're sitting back bitching about your
job but you're actually phoning it in, Where you are
feeling lonely but you haven't left your house in five days,

(01:01:09):
where you have complaints about your family, but you haven't
reached out to your siblings in a while. And so
I love this so much because whether you're talking about
politics or you're talking about a very scary situation, like
that last caller, and you would do anything to extract
your sister from that, just like we would do anything

(01:01:29):
to help somebody get sober. But when you pressure, you
actually create resistance to change. And when you blame, you
failed to see your power and responsibility in creating the
things that you want in your life. And so it
has been the single most powerful thing I've ever discovered.

(01:01:51):
It has changed my life more than anything that I
have ever learned about or used in my life. And
I one thousand percent believe this is the legacy I
will leave on this earth.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Ooh, we love it well. We loved having email Robbins.
And this book is obviously going to be a huge success.
We know that for sure, and congrats on all of
your success. It's very very inspiring to see someone turn
their life around in the way in which you have.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Yeah, So goodbye everyone. We will see you next week.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com