Tarot, Cults + Body Counts with Christina Ricci

 

Christina Ricci joins Chelsea to talk about her new tarot deck, why even 3-year-olds should have boundaries, and having a dad with a cult of his own.  Then: A wife struggles with guilt over her judgmental family.  A 30-something worries about escalating fights between her in-laws.  And a girlfriend’s body count is a point of contention in her relationship - but should it be?

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Find Christina’s Tarot deck Cat Full of Spiders here!

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi Catherine, Hi, oh everyone.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
This is our first episode that we're recording since the election.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
So that didn't really go the way we wanted it to.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
No, it did not come and people are very, very down,
and I have have been sifting through my dms with
lots of messages of fear and defeat and people who
want to give up, and that's kind of just what
they want, you know, they want us to give up.
So while we have to lick our wounds and realize

(00:33):
that this didn't go our way and all of the
reasons it didn't go our way, I think one of
the most important things to remember is to activate and
to actually turn and channel that anger and that rage
into something powerful, like we did in twenty sixteen when
this happened, and when we had the Midterns two years later.

(00:53):
It was because so many people activated and organized and
got involved. And while that may feel like a big,
you know, hopeless idea, it matters and it makes a difference.
And it's been proven time and time again to make
a difference. Getting involved in politics, getting involved with local groups,
support groups if you need a support group, instruction like

(01:15):
places like ACLU who are constantly fighting legal battles and
have been preparing to fight legal battles against this administration.
That's one good source. But we are going to do
We have many episodes. Now we're going to do a
miniso that will come out tomorrow with all sorts of
resources for you guys, so that you can actually join
a group, donate to a group, go and volunteer for

(01:37):
these group all of the groups that are fighting for
LGBTQ rights that we are very well aware of, human rights,
immigrants rights, all of these groups that are here doing
work on the ground. We are going to put together
a big list of places that are reliable and have
avenues for you to actually get involved and start making
a difference. Because we can't just lie down and take

(02:01):
it and just say, well, they're going to do what
they're going to do. There are ways to delay what
doing what they want to do. There are ways to
get involved, and there are good things that have come
out of the election.

Speaker 1 (02:11):
Even though this feels very very dark. I'm with you.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
I just spent the whole weekend doing stand up which
thank god I had to do that because it served.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
As not only a reprieve for hopefully my audience.

Speaker 2 (02:23):
But for me I mean, it made me forget about
all of this for at least an hour. And I'm
with you. I understand how dark it is and how
it can feel hopeless, but that energy doesn't get us anywhere.
Hopelessness and giving up and defeatism doesn't get us anywhere.

Speaker 1 (02:43):
So we really have to work.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Together in community, knowing that there is half of this
country that feels the same way we do. There is
half this country that wants to protect all of these rights,
and probably more than half. You know, a lot of
people just voted because of their They voted because of
their pocketbooks, and some people are voting for their fucking lives.
So it would be nice if everyone was on board
with humanity. But clearly with all this divisiveness and the

(03:07):
ugliness of Elon Musk and his whatever he did with
Russia for this election, Like, I don't even want to
go down that rabbit hole because I don't like, I mean,
you go online if you even mention it. I mean,
there's so many conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Theories out there.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
It's just so gross and uneducated and stupid.

Speaker 3 (03:24):
Yeah, and the algorithms are so dangerous.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Sense.

Speaker 3 (03:27):
It's like I've seen people that I love who are brilliant,
who are discerning, who are politically savvy, and even they
are getting like sucked down these weird YouTube rabbit holes.
And I'm like, where are you getting this rhetoric from?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I know, and it's they're everywhere. It's permeating everywhere. And
that's Russia for sure, because that's what they and that's
what Elon Musk did you know when he bought Twitter,
that was with this intention to do this, which is
exactly you know, he was victorious. So it's like we
have to you know, we have to not lie down and.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
Let this roll over on us.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
So I don't know what the answers are.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
I feel everyone's pain, and I've responded to probably thousands
of dms, but I will continue to go through them
and respond to more, just trying to convey some sort
of comfort and understanding that we can't be paralyzed by this.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yeah. I saw so many people saying, you know, this week,
we're going to take our time to more and we're
going to take our time to wallow, and like next
week we get up and we start fighting. And I
think like we've taken our time and now we get brave,
you know, we start getting active too.

Speaker 2 (04:37):
Yeah, And if you're in Texas and you're feeling lonely
and dispirited, I will be coming through there this week
to Austin, Houston, Dallas, going to sugar Land Friday, Saturday, Sunday, actually,
so I'll see you guys there and I'll pump you
up for the night and and we'll just take it
one day at a time, you know. But just remember,
whoever you are and however hopeless you feel, you are

(05:00):
not alone. There are so many millions of people that
are feeling the same way you are. So I would
really encourage people who are feeling very insulated or insular
like and they don't have community around them, I would
really encourage you to join support groups. Go online, look
for LGBTQ support groups, look for people who are worried
about their family members being deported. There are support groups

(05:22):
for everything, and I would really encourage you to try
and find a group like that, you know, to seek
out support. And now we have an interview with one
of the only celebrities I don't think I've ever met
in my entire life, and not the only one, but
one of them who I would have thought I had
met before, but I haven't, and she's been in so
many of my childhood memory making core memory movies like Mermaids.

(05:50):
You probably know are most recently from Yellowjackets. Please welcome
Christina Ricci. Hi, Christina Ricci.

Speaker 4 (05:55):
Oh my gosh, I'm really excited to be here.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
I've been such a fan of yours and we've never
I've never community.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yet, I said earlier. I'm like, I don't think i've
met you, But then again, I don't remember, because sometimes
I've interviewed somebody and completely forgotten. Yeah, you have no
reason for.

Speaker 5 (06:11):
Do people get really upset when you've interviewed them.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I forgot. Typically it's not a great it's not a
great look. But I'd rather be honest. And I mean,
I've been to you like fifty thousand people.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
It's true.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
I mean, it's justifying to understanding.

Speaker 2 (06:22):
But now as I'm looking at your face, I'm like, oh,
because obviously I've known you for as long as everybody
else in this world has. I'm older than you, I'm
five years older than you, and so I grew up
with you, and so you are a familiar face to me.
But as I'm looking at you in person, I realize.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
I've never met you.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
Yeah, we haven't met No.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
But first of all, this is the most exciting part, well,
not the most exciting part, but one of the most
exciting part is that Christina is here today because she
is releasing a tarot card collection, which is very unexpected
but also kind of right on track for your brand.

Speaker 4 (06:56):
Yeah, and it's weird for me too, because I love Taro.
I've always thought it was.

Speaker 5 (07:00):
I'm not one of those people who like fully buys
into anything, really like, I don't really believe in anything,
So I don't believe in the like mystical aspects of this,
but I really love it for like self expiration, it
postes lots of questions, So it's a funny thing for
me to put out because you would think, like I'm
putting out a tarot deck, I must believe in fate, which.

Speaker 4 (07:21):
Yes, and I really don't.

Speaker 5 (07:22):
I believe more like we're totally in control of ourselves.
If we ask ourselves the right questions, we can you know,
see situations fully and understand where we're going. And that's
really what Tara is. You know.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Well, I'm glad you said that pre amble because sometimes
when people think you were talking about tarot cards.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
They think you're like out to lunch.

Speaker 4 (07:40):
Yes, I used to Barley Nobles.

Speaker 5 (07:42):
I would ask for the crazy Lady section when I
was going to get my you know, birthday book. Remember,
you'd have to like immediately go find out what his
birthday was.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
And they're like, you gotta get the birthday book.

Speaker 2 (07:56):
And then you start by by the way, when you
go to the birthday book and you look at the
guy that you're dating, and you look at you, and
then you go to any random guy, any other birthday,
and it also aligns like they never once said this
is a bad match.

Speaker 4 (08:07):
There's always too many.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
There are a few, but.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I think this tarot I'm looking through the tarot cards now,
now did you design these?

Speaker 4 (08:15):
No?

Speaker 5 (08:16):
So it was so my husband and I came up
with this idea and he's the creative director.

Speaker 4 (08:20):
Well here's the idea. The idea basically is that they're
all me just like.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
An individual has a million different facets and potentialities and
versions of themselves. So my husband's creative directing it. And
we found this amazing artist, Felipe Flores, and he did
all the artwork and came up like all the cards
have little like two sentenced stories, backstories for the characters
that then are metaphors for the theme or question that's

(08:48):
being posed.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
This is very good for Christmas, you guys. This is
good for your family Christmas.

Speaker 5 (08:53):
So west em One too with a collectible set that
comes with like a tray and a muss smudging thing
and candles smudging.

Speaker 1 (09:02):
What kind of smudging that we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (09:06):
I had to smudge your house.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Energy just smudge my house once a week. It's called
Cat Full of Spiders.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
It's a tarot deck with a guidebook, you guys, and
it's from Christian to Ricci because you know what, I
was looking at your history of all of the movies
that you've ever been in, and most of them are
pretty scary, like most of them, well not scary, but
you are.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, you play spooky like that's kind of You're.

Speaker 5 (09:28):
The ones that have stood out. I've made a lot
of ones and nobody ever paid anything.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
I mean, there was not scary.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
Well like Mermaid wasn't scary, that was not but a
lot of your roles are spooky scary, and I was like, yeah,
that's interesting for a woman.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've always been somebody who
I just like, can't be normal.

Speaker 4 (09:46):
So I can't be in romantic comedies.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Why do you think you can't be normal?

Speaker 5 (09:50):
If I say I love you on camera, it's not believable.
It is not you don't believe me for a second.
I also can't be in horror films where I have
to be afraid, Like I don't. I'm not convincingly fearful.

Speaker 4 (10:01):
Even though I spend my life in fear. For some reason,
I can't convey that on screen.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
So do you know that though?

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Have you tried to get scared on cass?

Speaker 4 (10:08):
I've done horror.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
I remember I did this one and I went to
see it with my boyfriend at the time, and he
was just like very I don't know, wasn't it a
lot there?

Speaker 4 (10:19):
But he was like, wow, you should never do a
horror movie again. And I was like, no, you're right.

Speaker 5 (10:24):
He's like, you just seemed like you didn't really care
about anything.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
That's pretty funny, what a great review. You're like, thank
you for coming with me.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah, I I guess I brought my apathy to that performance.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Yeah, but I mean at some point you would. I mean,
it's not like you can hit a home run every
single movie or job that you get. It's like a doctor.
Doctor's not hitting it out of the park every single time.

Speaker 4 (10:45):
I'm unfortunately unfortunately it's true.

Speaker 5 (10:48):
That is so true, And I'm really glad you said that,
because I think it's fine to admit that you weren't
very good in certain things. Yeah, it's also it's always
so horrified and I'm like, no, I'm terrible in that movie.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
I'm glad you like it, but I'm not good, right,
That's okay. Because I was twelve.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
My friend has a number one movie that's on Netflix
right now, and she's like, oh, I put the least
amount of effort into this movie, and I didn't.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Even like my perform, not the least amount of effort.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
She said. I was very dissatisfied with the outcome, and
it ends up being the biggest movie I've ever done.
And I'm like, there you go.

Speaker 4 (11:17):
You never know it's gonna hit.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
But it's so true, though, because I can relate to
that because I in my work experiences, even though I'm
not an actress per se, I have done not per se.
I'm not I know why I'm saying it that way,
but we're all actresses exactly. I have definitely performed at
higher levels and lower levels depending on what the fuck
is going on in my life and how grounded I am.

(11:40):
And I would imagine with your career that's about what. Yeah,
I mean, you've been acting since you.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Were a five, no, seven, oh well so.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Much older song.

Speaker 5 (11:51):
But it is my first movie till I was nine,
so I never know whether it's seven or nine, so
in that area.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
So at some point along the way between seven and
forty five, I'm sure that you were not batting a
thousand every single time.

Speaker 5 (12:04):
Uhuh No, it's been a rough road, so occasionally the
performances have suffered your great.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Yeah, well that's to be expected.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
And I think this is a very refreshing conversation actually
to be having about acting, because some people take acting
very seriously and the idea that.

Speaker 5 (12:20):
You can never have made mistakes or you're not talented
because you once made a bad choice, or you know
what I mean, right, or there are things that like
I think it's okay for me as an actress to
be like I can't do romance, Like I just can't, right, right, right.
I think it's fine, but I've I've had things. But
a lot of people react as though you're like, oh no,
don't bash yourself, or you're not allowed to be self critical,

(12:41):
Like we're not allowed to be self critical anymore, and
one's always so worried about ourselves.

Speaker 1 (12:45):
Oh yeah, exactly, I know.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
And I'm like, that's not happy fire, I'm being objective.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (12:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
So was there ever a point in your career where
you had a lull where you didn't know if you
were going to continue acting? Yes, so I just can't
doing something for that many years that's your whole life,
Yeah it is, Yes, I like, you never wanted to
be a secretary or anything I did.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
I wanted to be all those stereotypical things that actresses
want to be, a therapist or interior decorator, so I like,
you know, tooy around with those things. And then when
I went to high school, I was sort of like,
I already have this thing, and if I just do
this thing, I don't have to do any more homework.

Speaker 4 (13:24):
Yeah, so I'll never have to study again, so le'tll
just do this.

Speaker 5 (13:28):
My end of my twenties, I really wasn't working very much,
and then I did a TV show pan Am, and
then when that was canceled, I really didn't work very
I mean I worked, but not the level I wanted
to work at.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
And so were you able to afford to like live financially?

Speaker 6 (13:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (13:44):
I thought I was able to support myself, but by
doing things that like, you know, I like watching Lifetime movies.
I don't really want to be in them, right, but
you know that is one way that I supported myself
during that lull, and.

Speaker 4 (13:57):
There's you know, there are other things.

Speaker 5 (13:59):
Well.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
It's also nice also be able to come out of
that low and now look back and be like wow,
because some people would have too much pride to do
something like that. Oh not that Lifetime is the bottom
of the barrel, because I also enjoy watching Lifetime movies.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
I mean that's what.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Dreams in bed were made of. You know, like Sunday
days before we had all of these streamers, that's what
you did on a Sunday was watch one Lifetime movie
after another.

Speaker 1 (14:20):
But I hear you about not wanting to be in.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Them, you know, ye, not your hurt's desire.

Speaker 5 (14:26):
No, no, no, So But then this TV show I'm
on now, yellow Jackets, really changed that for me.

Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah. Of course, huge hit Yellow Jackets, which is on
Showtime with Melanie Lynsky.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
I mean you have such a great cast.

Speaker 4 (14:38):
Yes, anybody's so incredible.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
That's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
You've worked with so many incredible women, from Winona Rider
to Share to this whole cast of Yellow Jackets. Talk
to me about that those relationships, Like, is there someone
who's had a huge impact on you that you only
spend a short amount of time with.

Speaker 5 (14:56):
Well, I think that all of the women I worked
with when I was very young, you know, Like my
first movie was with Share, my second movie was with
Angelica Houston. I worked with Ellen Burston in between those movies, Like,
I worked with a lot of older women at the
time that were just so self possessed and powerful without
being dickheads and smart and just educated me in so

(15:19):
many ways. And I think that that was really helpful
for me to see as a little girl.

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Yeah, well, because it sometimes I think when you have
experiences with people like that that are like huge, kind
of almost figureheads, it's not even about them necessarily teaching you.
It's about watching them do their thing exactly and learning
from them, right. Yeah, because Share is such a force,
and I think I heard you talk about her once
that she was like kind of you know took care
of you on set since you were such a young kid.

Speaker 5 (15:46):
She would hide me in the back of her trailer
when they had production meetings because she didn't want me
to ever feel like I didn't know what was happening,
and it made me feel nervous.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:57):
So, and she was like, I know they're not going
to like going to think I'm crazy if I want
you to be in the production meeting, So you just
sit in the back so you can hear what's going on.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
Oh that's very cool.

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (16:06):
And there was also I didn't realize it at the time,
but we were well I did realize this.

Speaker 4 (16:11):
We were changing.

Speaker 5 (16:12):
The director was being replaced, and one of the reasons
he was replaced was because he really didn't like my performance.
And I think that she was afraid that somehow I
would hear that, like some little bit of that, and
then turn it into something bigger. So she wanted me
to hear the actual production meetings.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yah.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
So when you have a career that that is this long,
right and successful, even though you've had some lows, which
is to be expected. I don't know anybody who hasn't.
What is your relationship to your work and to your career.

Speaker 5 (16:45):
Well, it took me a really long time to consider
myself an artist, really, not until I was in my thirties.
Uh yeah, like late thirties, like after all the opportunities
had passed, and I was like, I was an artist
I never appreciated.

Speaker 7 (17:01):
You know.

Speaker 5 (17:02):
That was when I really came to terms of it
and finally accepted myself.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
But I feel very strongly now about my work, whereas
in the past I didn't.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Really.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
I had a very sort of nihilistic attitude towards many things,
and one of them was my work. But now I
feel very connected. I feel very passionate about it. I
feel very protective of it. And I think I used
to view all that stuff as someone being pretentious, and
so as I've gotten older, I've gotten more comfortable with like,
that's not pretentious. It's just somebody who you know, is

(17:33):
treating their talent or skill the way it should be treated.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
It's kind of how you feel when you're in a
situation when it's mostly like male dominated, like in most
every industry basically, and you want to be like the
girl that gets along with everybody, you know. Like I've
had that experience where I want to be the girl
that's like the cool girl. But you don't realize in
doing that, you're sublimating what you need. And then you're
also sublimating the women around you because you're trying to

(17:59):
make in real with the guy. I'm not talking about
you right now, I'm talking about me with the guys,
so that you're not the problem.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
You're not difficult, you're fun. You get the joke. You
know you guys can be dirty around me.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
I get it, I get it, And you don't realize
how damaging that is until you are older.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
And realize that that's false.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
You're basically feeding into this whole male domination by acting
like that instead of congregating with the women. Yeah, so
I would imagine that's how you feel about like how
many people feel about their craft too. It's like what
makes you a strong actor? Like you saying that you
thought that was pretentious is actually empowering, right to know
what your skill set is, yes.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
And standing up for yourself and you know, being able
to come and say, you know, I do my best
work when this is what I need, but also like
being willing to reciprocate that for other people. And yeah,
and what I've noticed too, is like the more you
stand up for yourself, it inspires people around to sort
of set their boundaries and their needs, which is kind

(18:56):
of put in line with what you're saying as well.
You know, it's beneficial to everybody.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
Because it's like you've saw the example of people like
Sharon Ellen Burston, Angelica Houston, and then you want to
set that example also for the younger people that you're
going to be working with.

Speaker 5 (19:09):
Yeah, and it's easier for other people to stand up
for themselves when someone else is doing it right next
to them, you know what I mean. When especially on
a cast with many actors, like if one actor agrees
to like sit on the side of the road in between.

Speaker 4 (19:22):
Setups, then everybody has to sit on the side of
the road, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (19:26):
But like, the more people stand up and say like, no, actually,
I'm going to go to my negotiated place to sit
down until you're ready for you know, the more other
people stand up for themselves, the more everybody can't know.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
Okay, and you're a mom, that's right, you have two children,
I do.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
I have a ten year old and a two Oh wow,
she's almost three years old.

Speaker 1 (19:47):
Okay, and so how is that being a mother? It's good.

Speaker 4 (19:51):
I mean, I love being a mother.

Speaker 5 (19:52):
I love my kids, but I think, just like most mothers,
sometimes it's absolutely awful.

Speaker 2 (19:59):
What are the awful It's.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
Just like fighting with your kid to do homework, school,
anything school related to a nightmak's.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Worse in these towns than it is everywhere else in
the world. New York and LA like, for school is
a nightmare on multiple levels for children and the work,
but also because of the parrying to get into schools
and having to like, you know, basically submitted like a.

Speaker 3 (20:25):
College admission time.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Yeah, when you're when you're six months pregnant, it's really scary.

Speaker 4 (20:30):
Stuff is scary.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
And then when you have a child that turns into
like a wolverine feral creature anytime you're like, do your
thirty minutes of reading, Wow, and that's your ten year old,
Like it's yeah, it's that partly don't enjoy.

Speaker 4 (20:46):
But there's lots of fun stuff too.

Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, obviously, obviously I just always like to focus on
the negative.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
I did do, though, and then I end up sounding
like such a jerk.

Speaker 2 (20:56):
No, no, okay, well tell us your favorite parts too,
So we don't only have that in the interview.

Speaker 4 (21:00):
Of being a mother. Mom like what, they're very snugly.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
It's snugly, but think about them all.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
I want you to, like think about a moment that
really made you go, oh my god, Like this is magic.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I think.

Speaker 5 (21:13):
Well, I spend a lot of time with my son
and we travel together, and the last couple of flights
we've taken, Like, he's just it's it's just fun to see.

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Them learn and grow.

Speaker 5 (21:22):
And like now the way he travels is exactly the
way I travel. I like he knows everything and like
how even to ask for things and how we do
it and where we line up and how early we
need to be at the gate because mommy's crazy, and.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
It's just it's just really it's just fun to see it.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah, And have you been married or is that Yeah?

Speaker 4 (21:42):
I've been married twice. This is my I'm on my
second marriage.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
Oh you're on your second marriage. Well, congratulations, so exciting.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
I got through that first one.

Speaker 3 (21:50):
That's great.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
That's a practice marriage exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (21:55):
And how did you two meet?

Speaker 5 (21:57):
Well, he has been doing hair in for fashion for
god like twenty years and I met him on a
photo shoot, but I was still married, so I didn't
really meet him until after I was separated, like two
years later.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
And did you get married when you were young your
first marriage?

Speaker 4 (22:13):
No, I was thirty one.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
Oh okay, so you know, well it's not his day
because you have your son from that, So there you go.
That's your net gain. Yes, yes, right, did you find
I mean I wonder what it's like because you weren't
married to a famous person, right, So what did you
feel like? How did you feel about that dynamic when
one person is famous and the other person is it?

Speaker 4 (22:34):
I mean, it's not great all the time, you know.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
I wonder what it would be like though to I
mean two famous people? Is that better or is that worse?

Speaker 6 (22:41):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (22:41):
I have never dated anyone famous. Yeah, so I don't know. Yeah,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:46):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (22:47):
You know, it's it's weird, like people defer to you
a lot of times, don't acknowledge the other person totally.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
Things like that that just aren't nice.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
You become a plus one, yeah, person becomes a.

Speaker 5 (22:57):
Plus one, and you know, I'm not comfortable with that,
but you know, it's just human nature.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, it is human nature. And some people are okay
in that role? You know, that's saying there's a gardener
and there's a flower. Like, there's a flower and there's
a gardener. I love that because like I want to
be the flower and I want my person to be
the gardener. Yes, I'd like to, but that sometimes you
have two flowers and you're like, where's the fucking gardener?

Speaker 4 (23:22):
Now there's no water, just like.

Speaker 1 (23:26):
And that's a really hard I think, Yeah, dynamic.

Speaker 4 (23:28):
I can't even imagine.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
And do you think it keeps you more grounded because
you seem fairly normal and this short time we've spent together,
you seem fairly normal.

Speaker 5 (23:36):
You know.

Speaker 4 (23:36):
I don't actually like attention.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
I don't like attention, and I just find that interesting
when actors say that.

Speaker 5 (23:42):
I know it's weird. I don't like my picture taken.
I don't like attention. I love being in like the
outside of the room and watching people. I'm not overly friendly,
but my husband is like incredibly like carrious and warm
and takes.

Speaker 4 (23:56):
Care of everyone in the room.

Speaker 5 (23:58):
So it really works with Mark because even if somebody
would were to treat us as me with a plus
one and he's my plus one, well, the plus one's
the only one talking to you, so you know, so
he actually becomes the guest.

Speaker 4 (24:13):
You know, great, it works.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
That's cute.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
And who what about your so your daughter's too with Mark?

Speaker 4 (24:19):
Right?

Speaker 1 (24:20):
And what's her personality?

Speaker 4 (24:21):
Like, she's amazing.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
She looks exactly like you. I would imagine you have
very strong, dominant features.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
She looks a lot like me. I think we have
the same eyes.

Speaker 5 (24:30):
And then my son has my eyes but they're bright blue,
which is pretty amazing. He's really quite gorgeous. And she's
so beautiful and adorable. But she's like a feral creature
and she's very she has a lot of boundaries and
she's very strong. And I was like, my son was
just like attached to me, needed me all the time.
And you have to ask her permission to kiss.

Speaker 4 (24:49):
Her, like Cleo, Momy's gonna kiss you good bye now,
and she's like, no, Mommy, not today.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
That's funny.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
I was actual this trigger treating thing for my nieces
and refews on. My assistant Karen has a daughter, Willow,
who's three, and she kisses everyone on the lips. Everyone
was like, you have to meet Willow, She'll kiss you
on the lips. I'm like, I'm coming over. I want
to kiss on the lips from a little fat nugget.
She's such a nugget. And of course I didn't get one,
you know, but I was like, what are you guys

(25:18):
going to do when you send her to school?

Speaker 1 (25:19):
She can't just go around kissing everybody on the lips
like she'll grow.

Speaker 4 (25:22):
But when I'm like to learn about.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
Strangers, I kiss everybody on the lips. But I like
having boundaries at three. That's pretty funny.

Speaker 4 (25:31):
Yeah, she's amazing. She just she will say no.

Speaker 5 (25:34):
She will say no touching right now, please, And I
need some space. Wow, I frustrated.

Speaker 4 (25:41):
I need some space.

Speaker 5 (25:43):
And then I'm like, okay, cool, go take your space.
And yeah, she's just very willful, very strong. She's big,
very tall, which is surprising because I'm not very tall.
But yeah, she's she has like a cat like personality.
So when she finally does that completely melt just is
all over you. It feels really good because you feel

(26:03):
like it's really based on something.

Speaker 4 (26:05):
Yeah, like with cats.

Speaker 2 (26:07):
That's an interesting way to describe your relationship with your daughter.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
I think that's intriguing.

Speaker 5 (26:13):
I have a lot of respect for her.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
I have respect her too, just a.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
You also respect her. She really commands a lot of respects.

Speaker 2 (26:25):
Okay, so we're gonna take a break and we'll be
right back with Christina Ricci. And we're back with Christina Ricci.

Speaker 5 (26:36):
Well.

Speaker 3 (26:36):
Our first email comes from Rebecca. She says, Dear Chelsea,
I'm a twenty eight year old codependent millennial who was
in a controlling relationship. I finally sought professional help, and
therapy and medicine helped me begin healing. In my journey
of healing, rediscovery and homecoming, I met a man who
helped me become a better version of myself. We met
a little over a year ago and have been together

(26:57):
ever since. It's the partnership I want in my life.
He supported me when I'm down, held me when I'm anxious,
took care of me when I'm sick, and motivates me
to want to be a better and higher version of myself. However,
he feels that I have not been honest with him
about my body count. It's like the number of people
you've slept with.

Speaker 4 (27:15):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, and he.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
Doesn't like that.

Speaker 5 (27:16):
I'm surprised, but I knew his body count. But I'm
just surprised he's upset about this, right, seems so trivial.

Speaker 6 (27:21):
If he's so as.

Speaker 3 (27:22):
Great, Yeah it's not over fifteen, but it's more than eight.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
Oh, for God's sakes.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
The only it's the only contentious point in our relationship
and the only thing we argue about. I fear this
will never be resolved.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
That is so stupid. I mean, this is so stupid.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
You're fine.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
I do you have a time.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
I tried to count how many people I've had sex with,
you know, when you're in your twenties, and you're like one, two,
and then I can't even And then three days later
you were like, I remember three more guys I had?

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Like I had? I actually wrote them down at one
point and then found the list and was adding.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
To it forget.

Speaker 1 (27:57):
Well, yeah, as you remember, and now do you have
more counters? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (28:01):
But it should be limit. I mean, who gives a
shit how many people anyone had sex with?

Speaker 1 (28:04):
Agreed, The more the merrier, as far as I'm concerned.

Speaker 3 (28:07):
Right, And she says, you know, she doesn't want to
keep arguing about this, but you know, one of the
qualities he wants in a girl someone with a lower
body count.

Speaker 5 (28:14):
Maybe he needs to do some work on himself and
his insecurities.

Speaker 4 (28:17):
I think that's true.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
You can't.

Speaker 1 (28:19):
This is the beginning of it.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
Like that is it somebody who's hiding their jealousy and
they're hiding their controlling like behavior, and that is going
to come out because anyone who cares what you did
in your past before you met them, Like, everyone has
had sex with lots of people. Some people have had
sex with fewer people. But that can't be a stipulation.
So if the answer is above the number he feels
comfortable with, then what then you're broken up? What does

(28:42):
he want her to do?

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, there's no way changes exactly.

Speaker 4 (28:46):
But so but he thinks she's lying.

Speaker 3 (28:48):
Yeah, he thinks it's more than what she's saying.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
I would just say that this is a harbinger of
things to come, not a good sign.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah, if you're seeing these little controlling things come out
now and you were previously in a controlling relationship, that
should be a big red flag that maybe this is
more of a controlling relationship than he's let on.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Like you said, absolutely, because I had a relationship with
somebody who tried to pretend like he wasn't controlling, that
wasn't Oh I love the way you are. I love
that you're so free, I love that you ski topless.
Blah blah blah. Guess what he didn't like any of
those things that I didn't come out until about seven
months into our relationship, and I was like, oh, you
were pretending that you were okay with my personality, and
you're not okay with my personality. So yeah, I would

(29:29):
just say that's that doesn't look good. That's a big
red flag.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah. His deal breaker should be your deal break.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Because it's judgment also, and you're not why are you
judging the person that you are in love with? Like,
why would you judge them?

Speaker 3 (29:41):
It has no impact on your current relationship.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
No, it has no impact at all.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah right, so goodbye guy.

Speaker 4 (29:46):
Yeah the whistle and get out of there.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah yeah, your emotional whistle.

Speaker 4 (29:51):
Emotionally unsafe whistle.

Speaker 5 (29:53):
Oh I wanted to one really badly. I could be
in any situation just like and then like my protective
troll like come out from somewhere and be like, oh,
what have you done again?

Speaker 4 (30:05):
Like pick me up and take me to.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Side, Like I feel emotionally unsafe, right, now.

Speaker 3 (30:12):
Well, our next question comes from Dolly, and she'll a
Dolly parton.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Didn't we try to get Dolly on the podcast?

Speaker 5 (30:17):
Did?

Speaker 3 (30:17):
And we're still trying.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
She better come on, Dolly, come please? Oh look at
this cutie.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
Yeah, Dolly, says dear Chelsea. I've been listening to the
pod since the beginning. I feel excited to finally have
an issue that I feel is worthy of input. My
brother in law and sister in law are both thirty six.
Let's call them Victor and Kathy. They've been married for
almost ten years and have two kids in elementary school.
My husband and I have been marginally privy to their
ongoing fights, tit for tat, jabs, revenge spending, and recurring

(30:44):
threats of divorce over the last five years. My husband
is a decent relationship with his brother, and I do
with my sister in law Kathy, but there's always a
feeling of walking on eggshells around them. Through the years,
I've encouraged couples therapy, individual therapy, and given a book
on building a healthy marriage. Even had conversations encouraging them
to reflect on what this relationship is doing to their children.

(31:05):
It always seems like things get a little bit better,
and then no work is invested into the relationship. She
can tell us a little bit more about this, but
recently there was a situation where they got in a
fight late at night, Kathy left Victor also left the
kids at home, and now Kathy's gotten into therapy. It
just feels like a vicious cycle where things get better
and then the fights keep escalating. I'm at a loss

(31:26):
because I feel I can no longer act as a
blissfully ignorant bystander, knowing the negative impact their relationship has
on each other and their kids. How do I encourage
them to invest time into bettering their marriage or maybe
better yet calling it quits. Dolly, Hi there, Hello, Hi,
Hi Dolly.

Speaker 1 (31:43):
This is our special guest, Christina Ricci today.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
Hi.

Speaker 7 (31:46):
Oh my gosh, how cool?

Speaker 2 (31:47):
I know, right?

Speaker 1 (31:49):
Okay, So she just started going to therapy.

Speaker 7 (31:51):
She was supposed to this week, and I haven't heard
any progress on that, so I'm not sure if that
has actually been or not.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
But so, what kind of like, how do these fights escalate?

Speaker 2 (32:04):
What happens? They scream and yell.

Speaker 7 (32:06):
What I've seen is it's more like passive aggressive comments,
and then it sort of escalates into them talking poorly
about each other in front of the kids, in front
of other people. And then it's always alcohol involved too,
so you know that always kind of escalates emotions and
people aren't acting like their best selves. And yeah, I mean,

(32:30):
it just really depends on the situation of what triggers them.
It's not like one thing necessarily right.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
And what Have you ever had a conversation with your
sister in law?

Speaker 7 (32:41):
I have, Yeah, and it always kind of gets cut
short in a way. It's like a sensitive subject and
if I try to bring it up, it will be
shut down pretty quick. So that's also a sticking point
because it doesn't feel like she's really receptive to anything
that I have to say.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
Well, she's probably not because they're stuck in this kind
of like bad cycle of behavior. So they're probably not
very open to hearing any criticism about it because they're
both just kind of like swimming, you know, trying to
stay afloat. So what are you and your husband thinking
about doing? Has he spoken to his brother?

Speaker 7 (33:17):
Yeah, we both have talked to the same gender partner,
you know, spouse. But yeah, we've really encouraged therapy and
going individually and as a couple, and it just has
always met with like, we don't have time the kids this,
and then we offer to watch the kids and there's

(33:38):
like no follow up for them asking for help either.

Speaker 6 (33:43):
So I don't know.

Speaker 7 (33:44):
I feel like at a loss of not really knowing
what to do because I feel that we've both encouraged
what we think they should do.

Speaker 2 (33:52):
I just think you can't make somebody force people to
like go work on their marriage. It's nice that you
care and that you're thinking about them and you're observing it.
The only thing you can really do is have like
a meaningful conversation that is very pointed to say, listen,
I see that you're like are you happy? Do you
feel happy in this relationship? Like I want to know,

(34:14):
because if you do feel happy, then fine, then that's it.
From what I'm seeing, it just feels really damaging for
you guys to be talking about each other in front
of the kids, and there just seems to be a
lot of fighting, and I just feel like it doesn't
have to be this way. Not that she should leave him,
but they should at least try to work together towards
a more common ground where they can get along in

(34:34):
a nicer way and be more pleasant to be around.
But beyond that, I just don't think that it's anyone's
place to be. Like, Okay, you guys, it's time to
get divorced, or it's time to whatever. You can only
be whatever your tactic has been up till now should
probably flip because that hasn't yielded any result, right, and so, so,

(34:56):
how would you describe the tactic that you've used thus far?

Speaker 7 (35:00):
Pretty conflict averse or anti confrontation. So it's more just
conversations if it comes up naturally with her, and then
I'll give my thoughts on things, but I'm not ever
the one that's driving the conversation, if that makes sense,
But it's always kind of lingering back there.

Speaker 6 (35:20):
When the next fide doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Would you describe their behavior towards each other as like abusive?

Speaker 7 (35:26):
I mean, I haven't seen it, but from their personal
accounts of things, yes, there is some abusive like verbal abuse,
some physical intimidation, some yeah of that other stuff going
on too. So that's also why I feel like a
push against like I need to do something because of
the kids, and like it's impacting their whole household. How

(35:48):
old are the kids their elementary age.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Yeah, it's really bad for them.

Speaker 5 (35:52):
I mean, if anything, I would say, just really be
there for those kids, you know. But I think having
an honest conversation with the parents about what this sort
of stuff actually does to children's brains, right, how negatively
it affects them, Like it can change a child's brain
and development, and.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
In what kind of partner they choose.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
Yes, yes, it.

Speaker 5 (36:15):
Has incredibly negative impacts. Fighting in front of children and
if it's abusive in nature, then they could already have
PTSD and you know what I mean, like really be traumatized.
So I think that's the conversation to have. Like, you, guys,
you're grown ups. You get to make all your choices,
but there's two little kids here who have no say,

(36:36):
and you're supposed to protect them. So they have to
do something about if I would think that they would
do something about their marriage based on their concern for
their children, Right.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Is there any scenario that you could imagine where you
and your husband sit down with him and his wife
together and have this kind of conversation.

Speaker 7 (36:54):
I think so, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
Maybe that's a different tact that's serious.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
You know, if you're sitting down and you're like, listen,
we're here because we're seeing the impact of your relationship
and the impact it's having on the children, and we
want to support you in whatever way we can. But
there is a discussion to be had and all the
things that Christina's talking about, like there's all these books
to support I mean.

Speaker 4 (37:15):
The deal research.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
Bring some facts exactly, and bring some and be like,
you know, this has such a deleterious impact on kids'
brains growing up with that, And you know, you might
not think of anything because you guys are used to
talking to each other like this, But then you're creating
a situation where your kid grows up thinking that's the
way you talk to other people, and then they're going
to find themselves in a similar relationship or it could
have an even more serious impact on them.

Speaker 5 (37:39):
You know.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
I think you like you show up armed with stuff.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
And and in the most loving way obviously to be
there for them, But you should make it all about
the kids, so that it's that's the focus.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Then they have they're both motivated to do something right.

Speaker 4 (37:53):
Yeah, they can be heroes instead of being to blame.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
Right, you know, right, And one thing that might be
a little bit less confrontational for you or feel a
little less confrontational is to ask questions like, is this
how you guys want to be behaving in front of
your kids? You guys don't want to be fighting, do you?
And another thing is I think people think and a
lot of times it doesn't, but people think that like
couples counseling doesn't really do a lot. But when you

(38:16):
get a good counselor and you're really like in it
to win it, they give you tools to actually like
disrupt these fights.

Speaker 5 (38:22):
You know.

Speaker 3 (38:23):
For example, when Brad and I were first married, we
went to a couple's counselor for like two years, and
it was great because it gave us these tools, like,
for example, if you're kind of arguing about the same
thing for more than like half an hour, you just stop,
especially late at night, especially if you've been drinking. So
it's like actual practical tools that they can get to
like disrupt these patterns that they've developed.

Speaker 5 (38:45):
And if they shouldn't be together, a couple's therapist will
help them become more comfortable with the idea of separating.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Right, And I think you should like present you present
yourselves as a support system, like we're, you know, in essence,
the closest people to you because we're related to you,
so we want to help you. We want to be
here for you. We would hope you would do the
same thing for us. And this isn't a judgment, it's
just it's a little you know, dysfunctional. So like, do

(39:13):
you want to help yourselves, because we want to help you.
We want to help take care of the kids. So
you guys can have time to go to a couple's
counselor or spend more time alone together and go on
date nights. Present it as that you know you're their
best ally and that you're there to help them.

Speaker 6 (39:27):
Yeah, for sure, Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Your husband will be down with that, right.

Speaker 7 (39:31):
Oh definitely. We're on the same page of everything, so
it will be an easy set.

Speaker 2 (39:35):
And you know, there is a chance it'll all blow
up in your face because they're not going to want
to hear the truth, but you have to be prepared
for that.

Speaker 7 (39:41):
Yeah, And I guess that's also why I'm cautious, because
I value the relationship that we have. But yeah, I
think that it's worthy.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I think so too.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
I think it is very worthy.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
What I find to be very disgrestling or I find
myself very annoyed by is when people do not.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
I'm an interloper.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
I like to get involved in people's problems and it
doesn't always go well, believe me. But it takes a
lot to say something to somebody that is uncomfortable, especially
when you're a conflict averse like it an. It's an effort.
It's not like you enjoy telling people, Hi, this is
unhealthy and this dynamic is unhealthy. No one likes that.
I don't get off on that, nor to you. But

(40:22):
it's when you have concern for someone and they're like yeah,
and especially when there are children involved, there's no better
reason to get involved.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, you wouldn't be doing it unless you love them
really deeply, and that's obviously where this is coming from.

Speaker 6 (40:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
Sure, yeah, you want to follow up with us. If
you guys have this conversation, I'll let us know how
it goes, for sure.

Speaker 7 (40:40):
I will.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Okay, cool, best of luck, dollly bye, Dolly, thanks for
calling it.

Speaker 6 (40:44):
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (40:46):
Well.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
That was very she was sweet.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
Yeah, no, I know. I hope that all kind of work.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
I mean, it's just so interesting because sometimes are you
are you an interloper at all.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Do you get involved with like if.

Speaker 5 (40:57):
I know, but I don't really have I have a few. Well,
actually I have a few, very few close friendships where
I would, but I have in the past been like
yeah with certain girlfriends.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Time to cool it or get your shit together.

Speaker 4 (41:17):
Yeah, but it's very difficult.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
It is very difficult. Yeah, especially if somebody would can't
hear anything you're saying. Yes, you know, but most people can't.
In my experience, most people are like, oh my god,
thank you so much. And when people have interfered in
my life and told me like, hey, you're a little
bit off the rails right now, I have never been
more grateful.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And I love it I experienced. Yes, feedback means people
care about you, exactly. Yeah, it's take it.

Speaker 2 (41:43):
It's so it's effortful to actually have that uncomfortable conversation.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
So you have to know it's coming from love.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
It's not like people want to like, what would be
the motivation otherwise.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Right, right, exactly. Well, our next question comes from Beth.
She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm at thirty three year old
female that is sick of my familial bullshit. I'm a
middle child of four, and we grew up in a
church cult and were raised by emotionally neglectful parents, one
with alcoholism and the other a shopaholic. I was the
happy child who has all turned out so well for people. Yes,

(42:14):
Elias right always is a good story. I was the
happy child who was always eager to please and stay
out of trouble. As I left home, I met the
man I called my husband of eleven years. From the
moment my family met my spouse, they've been nothing but unsupportive.
They judged him for his looks, for his wealth, and
god knows what else made their minds deem him unfit
for me. It's caused contention with my siblings, and I

(42:36):
had to come to Jesus moment with my parents eight
years ago when my therapist suggested I write a letter
to discuss the hurt my parents caused me and how
I wanted to reconcile and move forward. This was not
only thrown in my face, but has ruined their relationship
ever since. Slowly, I've realized over the years that my
family is just kind of a bunch of assholes. So
my question is, when you feel like you've done what

(42:57):
you can to have a relationship with your family. But
it hurts too much. When is it time to move on?
Thank you? Beth, Hi, Hi, hi hi.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Look at you your standing while you're sitting, and you're alive,
and you survived a cult.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Look at you.

Speaker 6 (43:12):
I did it was you know, a lot of speaking
in tongues and weekend retreats for church. But here we
are a blessed non believer.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Christina just said she was born into a mini cult.

Speaker 5 (43:24):
Yeah, but mine had no religious not mine, my father's,
not my faults, had no religious affiliations. It was pure
therapy based therapy. It was called the Center for Emotional
re Education, and it started with he had a primal
scream therapy group that then became his Wow, hecolytes.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
But why does it that doesn't sound I mean, cults
have a very negative connotation. They're not positive.

Speaker 5 (43:51):
Really, No, because yeah, because the whole one person wanting
to control everybody else is right, doesn't always want normal impulse. No,
So that's usually a man healthy, yes, usually genuinely nefarious, not.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
A man who's having sex with everyone. Yeah.

Speaker 6 (44:08):
Probably.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I'm of the notion I think when you have exhausted
all possibilities, like I understand families, family. I'm very close
to my family. I think highly of remaining trying as
hard as you can to be close with your family.
But when you're dealing with that situation, it's so irrational,
you know. And I'm a fan of just saying enough

(44:30):
is enough and moving on so that you can enjoy
yourself and enjoy your life and be happy with your partner.

Speaker 5 (44:35):
Yeah, I hadn't seen my father since I was fifteen
when he died. I was like thirty eight for context,
But mus you died, Yeah, and don't I don't speak
to one of my siblings, And it is you know,
you do have. I've experienced a lot of guilts over
the years about it. But at the same time, it's
those are negative influences on me. They were toxic. It

(44:59):
was not healthy for me. So you need to protect yourself.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
You do. And like the idea, like the toxicity that
these people have, like the impact it has on you
is really never Like you can't overstate that enough that
the impact that having that kind of negativity around you
will yield in your life. You really you're choosing, like
this is your opportunity. You didn't get to choose whether
or not you were born into a cult. Now you

(45:25):
get to choose what your future is going to look like,
and so you have every right to just say enough
is enough. Do you have other brothers and sisters that
you do talk to?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
How many siblings do you have?

Speaker 5 (45:34):
I have three siblings, and I'm really close with my
sister and my oldest brother, and then I'm close with
my mother. But you know, my father was a crazy person,
and unfortunately one of my brothers was. You know, it's
not his fault because he was an abusive situation, but
it resulted in behavior that was not safe for the

(45:57):
other children around, right, and.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
When it's a big and when that happens, then there
is it doesn't of course, it's no one's fault of
the circumstances they're born into. But that kid doesn't mean
that you're allowed to be around them like that. You
have to allow yourself to you know, allow them to
be around you or what have you.

Speaker 6 (46:13):
Yeah, there's just so many outside opinions, and I was
just so curious to hear thoughts from you gals of
you know what that looks like? Of you know, well,
you should be thankful your parents are alive. And it's like, well,
when everything they say is a judgmental comment or something
you know coming at you that isn't loving and accepting.
Should I You know, I don't think so. With my

(46:34):
own maternal mother, it's it's never been accepting and loving.
There's always been judgment.

Speaker 5 (46:39):
Yeah. I mean, you get to choose now as an adult,
how you want to be treated and who you want
around you. And families should be held in almost the
same standards as friends, you know. If they don't, Yeah,
if you don't enhance each other's lives, then what's the point.
We can all feel bad enough on our own.

Speaker 6 (46:56):
Why are you in it exactly?

Speaker 4 (46:58):
Don't need like an extra person to make you feel worse.

Speaker 6 (47:02):
Yeah, it's just something that's always felt, Like, you know,
it's a guilt that I haven't been able to let
go of of. Well, they're alive and they're there, so
why don't you keep trying. We'll both parties have to try,
and it's just been such a hard thing to try
to let go of of. Yeah, they're alive, but they're
just kind of shitty. It's just not healthy.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Yeah. I think one thing I would encourage you to do, Like,
if you are making this decision to go no contact,
like for forever or for an extended period of time
is to maybe this is through meditation, maybe this is
through therapy, but find a way for yourself to sort
of release some negativity around it.

Speaker 4 (47:38):
And the guilts.

Speaker 5 (47:39):
The guilt can be a real killer, you know, like
it's it's I used to wake up in the middle
of the night.

Speaker 6 (47:44):
That's my biggest problem is the guilt. Because right now
I'm doing so well on my mental health space, but
when I'm not, that guilt seeps back in and it's like,
you know, you're a bad daughter, You're a bad child,
you know, whatever the case, and it's like, but no,
I'm not.

Speaker 5 (47:59):
I think the more you do I don't know, just
from personal experience, the more I did work on feeling
like I was the most important person to myself, you know,
then you feel less guilt or viewing yourself as your
own child in a way, you're protecting you, you know,
you little you from things you couldn't protect yourself from before.

(48:20):
Just there are different ways that you'll learn in therapy
to view the situation or from doing research or reading
that will help you feel less guilty.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I guess, yeah, I think the guilt is a big
thing for everybody because you can always go back to that.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
But I love what she just said.

Speaker 2 (48:35):
Christina just said about acting like it's your own child, Like,
would you allow your child to be treated this way?
Would you allow your child to be in a relationship
where they're constantly being judged and made to feel bad,
and then the partner, the person that they chose, is
also you know, being judged. No, you're setting yourself up
for just all sorts of negativity and guilt patterns. Like

(48:55):
part of the reason why you feel guilty is because
of the manipulation, you know, and so you really do
want to do work to get rid of that guilt,
Like you're you're empowering yourself by saying no more. It's
like talking to an abuser. I mean, if the relationship
isn't feeding you, it's doing something else. So what's the
opposite of feeding you, It's taking from.

Speaker 6 (49:14):
You, right exactly. Yeah. The biggest revelation I had this
year was I have a couple family members who have
had children, and you know, they're getting to an age
where now I had those memories as a child, and
my mom said to me, and I'm like, I would
never say that to my nephew and my niece ever
and my own mother, you know, and dad did that,
and it's like, I would never do that, you know,

(49:34):
as their aunt who loves them. Why would you?

Speaker 1 (49:36):
Ever?

Speaker 6 (49:37):
It's are your.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Parents still in the cult?

Speaker 1 (49:39):
Did you say?

Speaker 2 (49:40):
Or are they out of it?

Speaker 6 (49:41):
No? But they're still avid Christians and love to use
that guilt against.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
You, which is stupid. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
All religion, you know, like just it's insane. Is the
root of all discord in our world? You know, yes,
it all comes down to religion.

Speaker 6 (49:57):
Like yeah, And what's crazy is so yes, they're avid Christians,
but so were my in laws, the most loving and
accepting humans who know I don't believe in God, but
couldn't care less, you.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
Know, with them, Go be with them, you know, that's
where the light is. Go towards the light.

Speaker 6 (50:13):
Yeah, I'm swimming towards it.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
Okay, great, you can swim, walk, you know, rollerblade however
you want to get whatever? Yeah, yeah, girl, get after it. Well,
that's good. I'm glad. Do you feel better now?

Speaker 6 (50:25):
My only question, I guess would be because right now
I am so good mentally what I've worked on throughout
this year. When I am in my darkest places, in
my depression and anxiety, and that guilt comes in. You know,
what would be your biggest advice there to try to
talk myself out of that. That's where I struggle the most,
is when I'm not doing okay mentally.

Speaker 2 (50:43):
Well, that's where everyone struggles the most, and so well,
you know a good example of this is that book
Letting Go. You should pick up that.

Speaker 6 (50:51):
I just started listening to it.

Speaker 2 (50:52):
You did, Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:53):
Then there you go.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
It's there's a whole section about guilt and it's really
quite beautiful. And I actually tried this the other night.
I was stoned. So I just want to put that
out there because that helps me get to a little
like more of a meditative place when I'm trying to
be in touch with myself. But I had I was
having all these kind of like negative emotions and I
hadn't for a couple of weeks. I was feeling pretty

(51:14):
high and vibing pretty high, right, and I had read
Letting Go, and I just just.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Set me straight.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
I read it every couple of years. It's this book
by David Hawkings. Have you ever heard of it?

Speaker 4 (51:23):
I have?

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Okay, And I was sitting there and I was like, okay,
the negative feelings you can't repress or suppress. You have
to acknowledge, and guilt is one of those feelings. So
you acknowledge that it's there, and you kind of think
about where it is in your body. You know, when
you're feeling anxious or uneasy, it's usually in your stomach,
or it can be in your chest, and sometimes it's
in your head, right, like you feel pressure.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
And so I.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Remember I was lying in bed, I smoked a little bowl,
and I was like, I wonder where these feelings are
coming from. What is the motion behind it? Just like
the book says like am I feeling insecure? Am I
feeling fearful? Do I feel scarcity? Like where is this
coming from? And I was like, don't try to figure
out what it is, just acknowledge that the feeling is there.
And it was a very spiritual experience I had every

(52:06):
I felt it in my stomach and then it started
to move and I was like, it's okay, it's okay,
just let it be here and it's going to disappear.
So you're acknowledging it. You're not denying it right or
repressing or suppressing it. And then I felt it kind
of move up through my chest and it was really heavy,
and I felt it go through my throat and then
it was gone. And that's what this book talks about.

(52:27):
And I've never been able to accomplish that. I'm always like, oh, okay,
how do you let go of these emotions that aren't
serving you? You know, because it's not serving you. Guilt
it never serves anybody. And I woke up in the
morning and I just felt like so much lighter than
I had the day before, and I was back on track.
So when you get to that part about guilt in
this book, listen to it over and over and over

(52:49):
again until you understand how it's just not of use
to you, and practice that. Like it's good to acknowledge
where you feel something in your body because then you're
not running from it. And when you run from it
is when it keeps coming back because you're not facing it.

Speaker 5 (53:04):
And you make terrible choices, right, And I didn't behavior
just leave it to let me tell you.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Yeah, yeah, so you seem awesome and you seem, you know,
like a beautiful person, and I don't want you to
feel like, you know, hampered by your family or this
obligation to them. You know they've worn out there welcome
and you don't have to write them off forever. But
when they want to come around in a loving, positive way,
then you will welcome them with open arms.

Speaker 6 (53:29):
Yeah, that makes complete sense. I'm looking forward to that chapter,
just a couple of chapters in not there yet.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Okay, good, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Speaker 6 (53:36):
That's wonderful.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Beth.

Speaker 6 (53:40):
Thanks everyone, have a good day.

Speaker 2 (53:42):
Do you guys have any idea what I'm talking about
when I say that you.

Speaker 5 (53:45):
Describing, I had no idea that you could, that you
would ever be able to have that experience in such
a tangible way. I mean, neither felt like letting things
go to me is always felt like a metaphor yea,
not just like.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
It right right, but it is book. They tell you
exactly what to do, like you know, to sit with
these feelings that are uncomfortable and then surrender like Okay,
I feel I feel envy or whatever the feeling, because but.

Speaker 5 (54:10):
Do you engage with thoughts like do you like delve
in and you're like, great, so I feel envious. I'm
going to really experience how jealous I am of.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
No, No, it's not like I feel envy.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
I accept it. It's here, Okay, okay, it's here, like
I'm not in denial because you know, sometimes if I
felt envy in the past, I would go I'd push
it away, like oh no, no, I just don't like
that person. It's like, no, no, you're envious. You don't
not like this person, You're.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Just being you know.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
I would just just completely ignore what's behind all those thoughts.
So that was a pretty metaphysical thing that happened to
me the other night, and I was like, oh, and
it's a constant, like you don't just surrender that and
then the feeling is gone forever. It can come back
and then you have to do the same thing again.
But now I know that I actually felt it, like
moved through my system.

Speaker 4 (54:57):
That's crazy. I want to try that.

Speaker 5 (54:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
It's like the min body connection, like when you when
you start to be able to feel okay, I have
this emotion, but where is it physically? And then you
realize like, oh yeah, it's in my stomach or it's here,
or it's here, it's here, and then you kind of
process it a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah, yeah, well all right, we got to share that today.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Yeah, well, let's take a quick break and we'll do
a little QUICKI sister drama.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
Oh I love it.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Okay, we're gonna take a break and we're going to
come back and wrap up with Christina Riccie.

Speaker 1 (55:28):
And we're back.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
We are back. So our last email comes from Missy.
Her subject line is my sister got pregnant to compete
with me here, Chelsea, I've had a long history of
my two years older sister trying to take every milestone
in my life and turn it into a traumatic event
in her life. When I got engaged years ago, she
faked a cry for help suicide attempt. I've always had

(55:52):
her back, despite her obvious hatred of me. She's married
now with a four year old son, and she's told everyone,
friends and family that she is done have kids. My
husband and I have been trying for about a year,
started fertility treatments two months ago, and I've purposely kept
this a secret from my sister. Long story short, my
mom spilled the beans to her and I get a
call from my sister five weeks later telling me she's

(56:14):
four weeks pregnant. Way too early to tell anyone. Let alone,
you're infertile, sister, like she couldn't wait to tell me
and my husband. I can't wrap my mind around why
she would secretly try at the same time as me,
if it wasn't out of competition. I know this sounds crazy,
but all of my friends that have known her past
behavior are not shocked at all by this. I'm struggling
to deal and now I'm being alienated from my family.

(56:37):
I can't, for the life of me, understand why my
sister would want me to feel this hurt? Am I
wrong for being angry? Missy complicated?

Speaker 1 (56:46):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (56:54):
It's a tricky want?

Speaker 5 (56:55):
It's tricky because I do think that a lot of
this has to do with.

Speaker 4 (56:59):
Perspective, you know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (57:01):
Well, like she's it outside of in another context.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
All of this could just be coincidence, yeah.

Speaker 5 (57:09):
And like people living their lives and things happening at
unfortunate times. But if you're a person who's been in
the relationship and knows that it's more loaded than that,
then there's that element too. But I think in situations
like this, I always feel like the only power I
have is to not is to choose to not.

Speaker 4 (57:29):
Be affected by it.

Speaker 5 (57:30):
Yeah, like, why does it lessen your pregnancy any to
have someone else get pregnant?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Also, yeah, I would say that you're you're actively being
You're part of the problem because of your reaction to
your sister. And if if your sister really is doing
these things to get a rise out of you, or
that is part of her agenda, it's working. So you
actually have to like retreat and actually figure out that

(57:55):
your life doesn't have to be impacted so negatively by her.
And I know that you're probably going, but you don't
understand what she's done, all the things she's done to me.
Yet I believe you that your sister's done a lot
of things to you, and you feel like she's undercutting
you and stealing your thunder, But your behavior is as
responsible for this dynamic as hers, Like your reaction to

(58:16):
this is exactly what she's looking for. If everything you
say is true and your motivations are what you think,
she is trying to get a rise out of you,
and she does want to compete with you, So you
have to withdraw from that, and you have to do
that with a lot of work on yourself with your therapist,
because you can't change her. But you can change yourself
and you can change the way that you respond to her.

(58:37):
And her baby is not your baby. That's a totally
separate situation. Your marriage is different from her marriage. You're
going to have your sister unfortunately for a long time,
So you better figure out a better way to cope
with this. And what if you thought of it and thought,
oh my god, how wonderful that my sister got pregnant. Well,
how fun we can raise our kids together. What if

(59:00):
you just like turn the table so far on the
situation that you create a completely different reality between you
and your sister.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
Yeah, and I think especially since you are going through
fertility stuff, like it makes everything feel so much more heightened.

Speaker 2 (59:14):
Yeah, just in general, this is a very difficult time. Yeah,
we're dealing with this a major election, We're dealing with
women's rights being rolled back. You're dealing with that IVF,
which is a total dipsy doodle on your brain, chemistry
and everything. So you have to also just like sometimes
take your emotions out of the situation and look at
the situation like you're not involved in it. And I'm

(59:36):
not saying any of the stuff you're saying is untrue,
but you have to find a better way to deal
with this, because otherwise this is just a cycle that
will continue.

Speaker 3 (59:44):
Yeah, I also feel like she may be doing stuff
to intentionally hurtful, But there's also a world in which
it's possible that she's just so self involved and like thoughtless,
that she doesn't think about how it's impacting you at all,
and the result is the same hurt and everything, and
the what you need to do as far as like
freeing yourself from this is the same. But she may

(01:00:06):
also just be like not thinking about anybody but herself, right, yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Okay, Well, on that note, Christina, how would you rate
your advice giving today?

Speaker 4 (01:00:14):
I mean, I think I'm not bad. I need to
learn a few more words.

Speaker 5 (01:00:18):
I need to increase my vocabulary and perhaps my confidence,
but I think.

Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
I did Okay, Actually I would give you an a.

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
But I do think that we should make emotionally unsafe whistles.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
Yeah, well maybe that's what we'll name this episode, emotionally
unsafe whistles.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
That's not a bad idea. Do you have a whistle?

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
No?

Speaker 4 (01:00:39):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
Okay, I'm going to get your I'm going to get that.
Such my next offering to oh yes, a great holiday present,
great Valentine's Day present.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Great all of the things that are coming up.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
It's cat full of Spiders, Tarot deck and guidebook Christina
Reachie's Personal Guidebooks. So this is going to be really
fun for your family members and your friends and all
of the things that we have coming up in the world.
So please get yourself a copy. I'm going to take
this to Whistler and play this with my friends. Not
that you play tarot cards.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
I say that to you sometimes I keep making my son,
ten year old son sit through readings.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
What is your BITI so what is your favorite like
thing to add?

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Like when do you go to tarot cards when you
have a question about your life? Do you go?

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
I have trouble focusing in on the issue at hand
many times in my life, So sometimes I'll just kind
of shuffle and draw a card, and that theme or
question allows me to like approach whatever sort of confusion
I'm going through from a different perspective, like just the
idea that like, sometimes you're asking yourselves the wrong questions

(01:01:44):
and so this is a way of bringing in different
questions and ideas to what you're going through. So a
lot of times I'll draw a card and just be like, well,
how does that relate to what I'm going through? And
does that give me insight? And you know, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
Okay, well great.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
I love it. You were so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
I love me.

Speaker 4 (01:02:02):
He was really happy to be on. I've been a
huge hand of your so.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Oh my god, why weren't you ever on Chelsea lately?

Speaker 5 (01:02:08):
I don't know why wasn't I I was during my drive,
I was during my dry spell when I couldn't get
couldn't get it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:13):
You're like that has been you could have at least
been on the round table. All right, thank you, Christina.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
We'll see you next week. Okay, guys, stand up shows
that I have coming up, I am going to Texas
this weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I'm going to Houston.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
I'm going to Austin, Houston and then Sugarland, Texas. Then
I have my Specials taping in Montclair, New Jersey. Those
are all sold out. I have San Diego on eleven
twenty nine that has tickets available.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
I'm coming to Vegas on November thirtieth, right after Thanksgiving,
and there are tickets available for that. And then I'll
be in Des Moines, Iowa December fifth, December sixth is Omaha,
and then December twenty eighth, I'm coming to New Orleans
right before New Years, and then I'll be in Atlanta,
Georgia on December twenty ninth.

Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
And those are the rest of my stand updates for
this year. It's over New Tour New Year.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com