June 13, 2024 • 44 mins
Elliott Connie, a psychotherapist and author, discusses solution-focused brief therapy (SFBT) and its emphasis on the client's desired future rather than their problem orientation. He explains that SFBT focuses on the client's strengths and resilience, helping them overcome obstacles and transform their lives. Elliott shares his personal journey of healing and how he became passionate about inspiring others. He also talks about his new podcast, Family Therapy, where he conducts therapy sessions with families to explore their traumas and work toward healing.
Connect: @DeviBrown @ElliottSpeaks
Learn More: ElliottConnie.com
Listen: Family Therapy, The Podcast
Pre-Order: Change Your Questions, Change Your Life
Upcoming Event: SFBT 2-Day Intensive Live Training – 2024 Anaheim, California
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it now,
release slowly again deep in, helle hold release, repeating internally
(01:02):
to yourself as you connect to my voice. I am deeply,
deeply well. I I am deeply, deeply well. I am
(01:24):
deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply
Well Podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to
(01:44):
land in your journey, A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care. I'm
Debbie Brown. This is where we heal, this is where
we become. Welcome to today's show. So I have to
center this by saying that my dear sister Angela Rai
has been raving about this guest, and right before we
(02:08):
synchronistically booked to come together, she said, I have to
introduce you to this person, and the very next day
we were able to serendipitously connect and get scheduled for
this show. So I'm so excited today to dive into
the work of this very special guest, Elliott Connie. Elliott
(02:30):
Connie is a psychotherapist, author, lecture and hope dealer. Elliott's
belief in human resilience is what caused him to fall
in love with the solution focused brief therapy and learn
the ins and outs of this approach. He has worked
alongside some of the most prominent figures in the SFBT
solution focus brief therapy. Field has lectured all over the
(02:51):
US as well as internationally in places like the United Kingdom, Russia, India,
and Australia, and has written four books on this solution
focused method. Elliott's mission is to inspire you and light
the fire and passion that solution focus brief therapy lit
in him, so that you two can help transform the
(03:12):
lives of others. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'm so happy you're here. I love all the clips
that I see of you online, and I think you
know what feels so special, And we're going to dive
into all your takes on this. But the mental health revolution,
we are in the decade of that in a way
that has never happened in human history before. But with
(03:37):
it is all the layers of nuance, right, It's not
this monolithic experience, and we have to find the ways
that are so unique to us that allow us to
heal and transform. But most especially I believe within black
and brown communities that face entirely different complex lived experiences.
With all of that being said, I'm so excited to
(03:58):
dive into this method that very honestly I know so
little about.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow. Okay, can you.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Please, I mean share with this. What is SFBT.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Gosh Solution focused brief therapy is a way of doing
psychotherapy that is driven by what the clients hoped for
future is as opposed to what their problem orientation is.
So like, the single most common question that a help
or a psychotherapist, coach, whatever will ask a client upon
(04:34):
meeting them is you know what?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It is?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The most common question you would ask when you meet.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Someone, how do you fix me? I don't know?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Is what the professional would ask is what brings you here?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, right? What brings you here? And they're looking for
some sort of a problem answer anxiety, depression, you know, grief, whatever,
But someone using this approach would not ask that. We're
much more interested in where do you want to go
from here? So we immediately start our work by asking
about people's hoped for futures because to some degree, where
(05:06):
they've been is completely irrelevant to where they're going. Like,
there's this wonderful thing like anyone can get anywhere from anywhere,
and we've kind of taught ourselves that in order to
help you go where you're going, I got to know
where you've been. And that's one hundred percent not true.
That's just as silly as if you got into a
(05:28):
taxi cab and the cab driver said, where have you been,
as if that would somehow help them get you to
where you're going. And I think solution focused brief therapy
just kind of honors that idea that anyone can get
anywhere from anywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I thought so too when I first learned about it.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So kind of what I'm hearing in what you're saying
is that part of the approach is almost like reverse
engineering you because if we're thinking about where we want
to go, do we have to then figure out what's
in the way of us getting there? Or how do
you begin to engineer that experience?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, I think when you talk about things that you
really hope for, things that you like deeply and really desire,
you will actually figure out a way over the obstacle.
Like we don't have to like plan for it and
like develop a schedule on how we're going to handle
the things when there's something that you like, really want,
(06:25):
Like think about the things in your life that you like,
really wanted. When an obstacle comes up, you just naturally
trigger your own strength and resilience and overcome that obstacle.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The problem is when we are in trouble, like emotional
trouble again, like anxious, depressed, sad, whatever, we don't view
ourselves as resilient, strong overcomers. We don't view ourselves that way.
So then when we're in that state of mind and
a problem pops up, we actually give too much respect
(06:57):
to the problem and less respect ourselves. And I think
solution folks group therapy just reverses that because human beings,
every single human being on the planet, is a natural overcomer.
It's what we do, or you would never be who
and what you are, right, you would never make it
to forty years old, thirty years or whatever. You've overcome
(07:18):
so many challenges, but most of us just forgot it
along the way and we got overcome with problems or whatever.
It was my work. I want to inspire people. I
think a lot of times therapists get kind of sucked
into the idea of problem and that turns them into
a problem solver. And I don't want to be a
problem solver. I want to be a herd healer. I
(07:39):
want to be an inspirer of people, because an inspired
person is just accomplish, capable of accomplishing absolutely anything. I
believe in people so much that I genuinely believe like
my job is to inspire them and then get out
of their way, as an inspired person is capable of
unbelievable things.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This is so interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We won't be talking like five minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean, my god, where will we go next? So?
How so this particular system of therapy is this? Is
this a system that could help people that have like
big T trauma in their lives?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Absolutely? I mean the way I even heard about this
was because of the Trump. Like, so, to give you
a bit of a backstory, I was raised by a
very aggressive, very abusive, very emotionally unsafe father. My mother
is wonderful. I love my mother, but like she couldn't
(08:38):
even really parent because she was in protection mode that
whole time for me and my two brothers, and I
spent a large amount of my life anxious, depressed, and
quite frankly wanting to die. The best way I can
describe that state of mind to people was like I
looked around the world and I saw other people had
the white picket fence and the loving parents. Really, my
(09:00):
best friend across the street, we would play basketball in
his yard and his mom would literally carry a tray
of lemonade and bring it to us playing basketball, and
I'd be like, I don't, that's not what I have.
And if this is what I got and that's what
y'all got, like I just want to give this back, right,
That's the way I thought at the time. Yeah, and
(09:21):
I will never ever forget as long as I live.
I was about nineteen years old and I had decided
that life is not worth living. I don't I don't
want to live anymore, and I want to be really clear,
like I wasn't thinking about I had decided out, and
I was laying in my dorm room and for sometimes
I think God speaks to you. Sometimes I think the
(09:43):
universe speaks to you, or whatever you want to call it.
Sometimes a message it's placed upon you. And I was
laying in my dorm room knowing I've got a week
or two left, and just laying there, and one of
those times like a message was given to me. And
for whatever reason, I'm laying in my dorm room and
I started thinking about my eulogy, and I started thinking
(10:05):
of all my close friends. I was playing baseball at
the time, So all my teammates getting behind a podium
at some church at my funeral talking about how they
didn't know Elliott was this sad, or they didn't know
Elliott was this broken, or they didn't know Elliott was
in this much trouble, and for whatever reason, I couldn't
live with that. What I wanted them to say was
(10:26):
I didn't know Elliott's father was this much of a
tormentor like, don't blame me for this, like blame you.
And I was laying there in my bed like just
in tears, thinking they're gonna misunderstand this. They're gonna think
I'm broken instead of that dude is broken and thus
broke me. Yes, so blame the breaker, don't blame me.
(10:48):
And in that moment, I decided to outlive my pain.
I told myself as a nineteen year old, not that
I want to live, but I wanted to outlive this
pain so I could tell the story. That was my
desire at the time. The very next day, I went
to my advisor and I said, I want to switch
my major to psychology because I thought I can understand,
(11:12):
you know, I can understand that, no idea that I
would one day be a psychotherapist. But interesting, interesting things
started to happen, like once I decided to outlive my pain,
I had to make decisions that were congruent to the outliving.
I called my dad and I said, look, man, we've
been through a lot, and I can get through all
(11:32):
of it. I can forgive and move past all of it.
I just have four requests. Can't yell at me, hit me,
curse at me, or call me names. If you can
follow those four rules, I'll deal with everything else. And
he said you he hung up the phone. I was like, okay,
this is a moment I have to like decide. Am
I going to stick to who I want to be?
(11:52):
And I said, okay, call me when you can follow
those rules. And he hasn't called me since. The next semester,
I got a four point zero and I was like, wow,
I'm actually smart. I didn't know that I went to
college because I could play baseball. And the very next semester,
which was hard because you have to grieve the loss
of your abusive father. I tell me all the time,
(12:13):
like the hardest thing in the world is a grief
someone that's still here. But I got a four point zero.
I was like, wow, I'm actually smart. I ended up
graduating and somebody came to me and said, you'd be
a very good psychotherapist. I had no idea what that was,
and they said, you should apply to graduate school. Another moment,
I swear sometimes I think I think God's path is
(12:34):
just there. And my psychology program at this university I
was attending created a counseling program and they said, we
want you to be in the first cohort. I was like, okay,
I'm in. I just feel like this is one of
those moments. And while I was in graduate school, I
knew that I had saved my own life by hoping
(12:57):
for her future beyond pain. I knew that. So I
went to graduate school thinking I was going to learn
about the true levers of change. And we know what
the levers of change are their hope, love, inspiration, spirituality, nature,
like these are the things that create change. And when
I went to graduate school, all I learned about was
(13:18):
diagnosis and problems, and I learned to believe in human
beings through learning to believe in myself. And I just
couldn't believe that you're not talking to me about love, hope, warmth, nature,
the true things that lead to or change. You're not
teaching me how to inspire people. You're teaching me how
to diagnose them. And I thought that was a problem
(13:39):
because I don't want to look at people as broken,
because when you view somebody as broken, then you view
them through the lens of kent. When you view somebody
as healable, then you view them through the lens of capable.
And that wasn't what was happening, and I just thought,
I don't want to do this, and I made the
decision I'm going to quit graduate school, going to put
(14:00):
myself through this if that's not what I'm learning. And
that semester of my university hired this woman and they
brought her to my class and they said, we hired
this new professor. We had to let her talk for
like twenty minutes. You can take her classes next semester,
but we just want to introduce you guys to this
new professor. And I'm kind of checked out because I
(14:21):
knew I'm going to quit this program anyway. I'm not
a quitter, So I was going to finish the semester,
but like, I'm not going further, and she described solution
focus proof there was the first time I ever really heard
about it. The next semester, I took one of her courses,
and you know, when you're in graduate school, you take
you take a course where each chapter of a book
is a different therapy approach, and the solution focused approach
(14:44):
was about two and a half pages of that book.
But it was the first time I ever read about
hope and the things that actually lead towards change, and
I was moved. I was moved, and I was told
that not a lot of people in our field practiced
this way and think it's a band aid way of
doing therapy, and how could you possibly solve somebody's problems
if you're not focused on their problem? But I was like,
(15:06):
but I solved my problem by not focusing on my problem.
I actually focused on my internal resilience and strength, and
it literally transformed to press anxious, suicidal person into something different.
And I was just so on fire about it. So
I just started I wanted to learn everything I wanted
to learn everything about it, and I read every book,
(15:28):
every research article that I can get my hands on.
I started traveling the world to attend trainings from like
the Masters. You know, this is the early two thousands,
so like the Masters of the therapy world at the time,
and before I knew it, I had my own ideas
that I was developing about these things. And I was
encouraged to write a book. You said I had four books,
(15:50):
actually have five. My six is coming out in about
a month. And then people started asking me this. For me,
this is like a journal journey of discovery, like my
journey of healing is also a journey off discovery discovery.
When your father is beating you what people don't often
talk about, like bruises, heel, but when he's beating you,
(16:11):
he's also saying you're never gonna amount to anything, You're
a loser, you're an idiot, like all these things. So
I started learning like I'm actually pretty bright, like I
had a master's degree, hold kind of like a pretty
bright guy. I learned that I was really good at
speaking like somebody. When my first book came out, I
got an email and this person in bath, UK say, hey,
(16:33):
we want you to come to a keynote in bath,
UK and I was like, I ain't going to do that.
I've never been out of the country, I've never done
a keynote, Like y'all have to keep that. And I
watched an interview by the guy who founded Virgin the
Virgin Media Corporation, Richard Branson, and he said, when someone
ask you to do something that makes you uncomfortable, say
(16:53):
yes and then figure it out. And I was like,
all right, I'm uncomfortable, so I'm gonna say yes. And
I went to the post office and got my passport
and I was like, I'm just gonna live with whatever
happens upon that stage. I'll never thin get. I got
off the stage and somebody said you were meant to
be here, and I was like, Wow, that's unbelievable. And
(17:14):
from that time I've just been on fire about like
I want more people to know, not necessarily about solution
focused brief therapy, though that's part of it, but I
want I want more people to know that you can
completely transform your life with love and hope and inspiration,
and that starts with you, like it starts internally, like
you can truly learn to love yourself, like you have
(17:36):
to accept all of your flaws, Like no one is perfect.
But if we accept it, that's true, that no one
is perfect, then the opposite must be equally true. Like
if no one is perfect, that also means nobody is
imperfectly perfect. Everyone has some flaw and everyone has some brilliance.
(17:56):
So what if the key to life is to stop
focusing on your flaws and try to like fix them.
But what if the key to life is to like
focus on your brilliance and like totally lean into that
and totally fall in love with that part of you
and totally expand that part of you. And that's what
my work is about. Like my work, like I travel
the world, and I mean since covid mora online, I suppose,
(18:18):
but I write all kinds of books because I want
people to look at themselves and understand, yes, you have flaws,
because that's how we're all built, but you also have
brilliance and somehow the flaws have like blinking red lights,
but we got to go find the brilliance and we
have to check your ego and just like accept the brilliance.
(18:38):
Like growing up, I wanted to, you know, play third
base for the New York Yankees, Like, that's my ego,
Like I wanted to be like a celebrity athlete. That's
my ego. But my brilliance lied in this other area.
But if you follow that, then the rewards are so
(18:58):
beyond what you could believe anyway. So just check your
ego and find your presence. Hmmm, sorry, really long winded exposition.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It was so perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I have to tell you a whole thing in order
to tell your whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, thank you for sharing so much of your personal story,
everything you've said. I mean, it's just it's just so powerful.
And I think, you know, for those of us and
those listening that I've had, you know, especially some of
those really kind of gnarly childhood experiences, there is this
(19:31):
resilience that you know, there's this study. There have been studies,
but there's this new one coming out of Germany about
the way that trauma and some people can activate almost
like a superhero gene, Like it gives you this expanded,
kind of extraordinary form of optimistic resilience that allows you
(19:53):
not just to keep going, but to like break through
upper limits. And that's so much of what I'm hearing
in your life.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, like if you understood, Like I saw a client.
Here's a good example of exactly what you're saying. Saw
a client one time who was telling me I have
these massive anxiety attacks, like these massive panic attacks. And
I asked how often really happen? And this person said, like,
you know, twice a day, something very frequent, and it
(20:22):
was a lot. And I said, how do you calm
yourself down? And she said I don't know. And I said,
what do you mean you don't know? She said, I have
no idea how I calmed myself down. And I said, well,
do you stay anxious all day? And she said no,
it just happens, you know, once or twice a day.
Said good, So you're simultaneously telling me that you have
(20:44):
frequent anxiety attacks, but you're also telling me you have
frequent recovery moments too, And she said yeah, but I
don't know how I do it. I said, well, then
I don't know if I can help you, Like can
you go home? And every time you get anxious, I
want you to pay extra close attention to what you do,
wow to come out of it, because you do it
once or twice a day, because you don't stay anxious
(21:05):
all day and she came back a week later she said,
I haven't had a single anxiety attack, So why not?
And she said, because the more I pay attention to
the things I do to stay soothed, then the more
I stay soothed. And that's like the best example I
can give of that idea that when we go through things,
(21:27):
it does trigger that like resilience, but we often don't
catch it because we're so focused on the thing we
went through, not necessarily the resilience that we got from
the going of the through. So this person had gone
through a lot in life and as a consequence, has
developed this massive issue with anxiety, but all she focused
on was the anxiety and the stuff that created it.
(21:48):
Once you triggered this person to focus on something else
problem in a way, like it just didn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
That's so interesting. That's so interesting, Like I'm definitely hearing
like active awareness, and it's like she's pushed into being
in practice with how to tend to herself. Yeah, deeply, Well, elliot,
(22:16):
where does the rest of it go? Right? Like, when
I think about like the actual experiences, is it kind
of this one kind of enlightened experience of it clicking
and you are in full acceptance of the things that
happen to you or you know, I think for so
many that have had like trauma, there is this kind
(22:39):
of loop of thought, right, Like there are these intrusive
thoughts that can happen. Sometimes there is like manifestation of
autoimmune disease or different kinds of pain points in your
body that are reflective of that. Where where does all
of that go in this system? How do you work
with it?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I don't mean to be flippant and I say this,
but it goes away because like you don't have the
physical manifestations because of the problem. You have the physical
manifestations because of the way you're perceiving the problem. Like
again to give an example, like I know what it's
like to be punched in the face by my father,
Like I know what that's like, a lot of people
don't know what their father's fists feels like. But I don't,
(23:20):
Like I can tell you what that feels like. There's
not anything I could like that happened. I don't have
a time machine. I can't undo it. I can't like
that happened. But when I understood that, I survived it.
When I started to think about what did I learn
from the surviving of it? When I started to think
(23:42):
about what superhero traits in me were triggered from the
going through of that, the depression went away, the anxiety
went away, the things that had plagued me went away,
and that that happens because we put our past in
an appropriate pay place, we developed those things. Like I
(24:03):
developed that anxiety and that depression and that low self
esteem because I had the anxiety, I didn't have the
memories in the right place. I was wondering why did
this happen? What was wrong with me that my father
didn't love me enough not to pund Like those things
are what lead to the physical manifestations, because that's what
leads to the stress, and the stress starts to deteriorate
(24:23):
your body and you start developing symptoms of that. But
it's actually a source of pride.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I can remember vividly looking around my college classroom and
I'm on this campus, like I was asked to come
to this university because I could play baseball, And I'm
looking around and there was all these kids that come
from two family homes, large finances available to them. Every
(24:49):
semester they would get money from their parents go buy books,
and this one guy's mom was a really great cook,
and she would mail frozen meatballs and we'd all get excited.
I remember looking around and feeling really depressed that, like
somebody loves me enough to do that, or that's not
the environment I came from. But after a while I
(25:11):
was really proud of it. I was like, wait a minute,
I had just about every disadvantage that you could give
to me, and I ended up at the same university
you did, Like with all of your advantages and your
privilege and your affluence, I ended up in the seat
next to you, and I ended up in saying graduating classes.
You and I had every disadvantage that could have been
(25:35):
given to me. Well, when you think about things in
that way, then it doesn't cause you angst, it causes
you pride. And then I start to realize that I
represent much more than that, Like when I became a
psychotherapist and people were shocked that like the story that
I carried, and I realized, like, the power is in
(25:57):
your story, Like we all have a story, and my
ability or or my decision to share it became a
powerful tool for my healing, but also a source of infiration,
inspiration for people in our community who had never seen it,
therapists dressed like this, who've never seen a therapist listening
to jay Z or never seen a therapist doing the
(26:18):
things that I was doing. And and that's where all
that stuff goes, just goes away, because when you think
about something in a proper way, because the memory is there, like,
we can't do anything about that. The thing happened, so
now we have to put it in a proper context.
And when you put it in a proper context, even
your physical body will you.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
It's really powerful when someone comes to you and they have,
you know, this this vision of where they want to go.
They have this like you know, I'll give you maybe
a scenario.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It's like if someone comes and they are you know,
just saying like I want it. I want to have
more meaning in my life. I want to have more
joy in my life. I want to live my purpose.
I want to have a family that is healthy that
I love. How does the journey begin?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Well, the step, the first step when someone comes to me, which,
by the way, to be very honest with you, most
people don't know what they want. Really, yeah, what most
people are very aware of is what they don't want. Okay,
So when people come to me and I ask them
what is the thing you want, they basically say, not this,
whatever this is, whatever generation of this is around them. Like,
(27:37):
think about the way that we talk about sobriety, right Like,
in the world of sobriety, we don't talk about sobriety.
We talk about not using. So very often if I
ask someone who's struggling with a deddiction, what's the thing
you most desire, they don't say sobriety, loving their kids again,
or they say I just need to stop drinking or
(27:58):
drugging or whatever. So for me, the first step is A,
I have to have a way of having you articulate
what it is that you want, and then B I
have to have a way of you envisioning you taking
your first step. And one of the ways that I'll
do that is I'll ask them something like, suppose you
woke up tomorrow and it was the very first day
(28:19):
of those like sober version of you, the version of
you capable of healing the relationship with your partner, kids,
blah blah blah, what's the absolute first thing you would notice? So,
in my teaching. When I started doing this right, people
didn't believe me. I would tell them what was happening
in therapy, and they didn't believe me. So I started
recording sessions with clients permission, of course, and occasionally clients
(28:40):
would give me permission not only to record it, but
to show it in trainings. And I've got this guy.
I've got a videotape with this guy. He's using crystal
methane phetamine frequently. And I asked him what does he want?
He said, I don't know. No, I can't work with that.
I have to challenge You're like, what do you think
(29:01):
you want? I don't know, he said, it depends on what
we're going to talk about. I don't know what we're
going to talk about it. I just met you. But if
this is a useful conversation, what's that thing that you
would want? After about three minutes of him saying he
didn't know, he said, I need to stop using drugs.
And I said, what would you like to do instead?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And he said work on cars. Now, why that's so
important is because everyone has that thing that they can't
live without. Maybe it's drawing. For me, it's writing. I
love to write. Maybe it's swimming for another person, hiking
for another person's skating for who knows, But for this
(29:40):
particular man, it was about cars. Like he wanted to
be the mechanic version of himself. So I've got to
ask him, if you walk tomorrow's a mechanic version of yourself,
what would you be thinking about? And he said cake.
I was like, cake? Why cake? And he said, I
made a cake and there's a cake in my refrigerator.
And if I woke up tomorrow thinks about cake instead
(30:02):
of drugs, I would know. So, like, where does it start?
It starts with that first step, Like you wake up
thinking about cake, which is a very normal thing, right,
Like if I've had a delicious meal that I couldn't
eat the whole thing up and I put it in
a refrigerator, you wake up in the morning, You're like, oh,
I hope that thing is still in there, and I
can't wait to eat it today because I don't use
(30:23):
crystal mentenphetamine, so I don't wake up think about how
am I going to get my next hide. For him,
waking up and thinking about that thing and refrigerator is
a massive thing. So where does the journey start, It
starts with that first step that sounds mundane to the
average person, but to that guy, so get it, it
was massive, right And if we can talk about that
(30:43):
first step, so what's the next thing you would do?
And the next thing you would do? And he doesn't
even know it, but he's literally rewiring his brain literally,
because that's what words and envisioning do, that's what manifesting does.
If we talk about the day I start my sober
journey in real detail, like what would be on your mind?
You woke up? Cake? And then what would you do?
(31:05):
I'd have some cake? And then how would your kids
know that there's something slightly different about you? Well, I'd
play with him instead of running out, And he's like,
really detail. Fourteen months later I found out he hadn't
touched Krista mcthan vitamine since we had that conversation. Right, So,
how does that happen? By you trigger people to think
about step one, step two? Guess, because that's how change happens.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
The problem is most psychotherapists, they don't take the time
to learn that this man in his heart is a mechanic.
I remember there were some people watching when I did that.
I did it live the session that actually happened. We
got the recording, but I did it live. And they
are about thirty clinicians watching him, and some of them
had treated him in the past. About halfway through the
(31:47):
session he starts crying. So we're walking through like every step,
every detail, and about halfway through the session, he starts
crying and I said, you're okay. So yeah, he said,
you know, when I was a kid up until when
I was ten years old, every Saturday, my father would
wake me up on Saturdays. He'd sit me on his
(32:08):
lap and we'd go out on the driveway and we'd
work on cars together. And he said, and then without
any warning, when I was ten, my father passed away.
He said, I had the kind of father that gave
you heaps of positive energy. I'll never forget, like the
wind beneath your sales, that's exactly how you Worre did it.
And he said, I feel like that's why all of
(32:28):
this has happened. But it would feel really good to
get back to that. So at the end of this session,
I go talk to the people that were watching, and
again few of them had treated him, and they said
I had no idea he liked cars. I was like, well,
that's why he didn't change when you were talking to him.
You didn't earn the right to talk to him, because
if you don't know he loves cars, how could you
(32:49):
possibly treat him? Like we think if we learn everything
about a problem, about a person's problem, about a person's triggers,
then we know enough to help them. But that's that's
not true. Can be true, Like you have to know
what drives a person in order to help them create change.
And for him, these cars and now we know why
(33:10):
cars are very much connected to his father's legacy, which
matters him, and the drug use became like a numbing
agent for letting his father down. But when he can
recapture that, then he doesn't need the numbing agent. Yeah
you know what I mean. Like, So for me, that
that's everything.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That is so powerful in my language kind of more
like mindfulness, mindful awareness. I'm just hearing the deep presence,
like it's deep connection to the present moment. And that's
in my world where change happens, you know, it's it's
it's in that space where you're just kind of in
that gap and there is this kind of opportunity to
(33:52):
spark creativity towards something that is so Wow. You have
a new podcast I do on the Black Effect Network
Family Therapy. Yes, So I'm going to read this synopsis
and then I'm going to dive in because this is
something that I think God so many are longing for,
(34:15):
but in a way that makes sense for us. You know,
all of our families can look so different and sometimes
peeling back those layers can feel really, really scary. So
your podcast on the Black Effect Network Family Therapy. Family
Therapy podcast is the display of exploration of self through
the means of conversation while constructing a nourishing space for
(34:38):
individuals looking to heal by revealing anxieties and exploring deeply
rooted problems, Family Therapy will document a family's journey as
they work through trauma in conversation with psychotherapist Elliot Khanni.
Over the course of sixteen weeks. Participants will examine their
life relationships, hardships, successes, shortcomings, and personal growth as they
(35:00):
seek progress. Therapy sessions will consist of individual and groups
conversations in an effort to restore old wounds. So your podcast,
we are hearing therapy sessions. Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
In the real journey, like and it's wrong.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Oh wow, how has this process been and how many
families did you work with in this process so far?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Each season is going to highlight a different family.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Wow. Yeah, and that's so. I learned something recently that
it takes between eight and twelve therapy sessions to actually
see kind of change begin to occur. You don't believe that,
because I was going to say that sixteen weeks we
must really be getting a look at true kind of evolution.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You will. Yeah, Well, first of all, I think I
think change can happen in one session. I think change
can happen in a single moment. In fact, I thinks
how life is definitely if you think about how your life,
everybody can think about their lives. Your life changed in
a moment, and people all the time. Why can't therapy
be a moment? Therapists kind of believe like it takes
me a while to solve a problem, maybe, but like
(36:07):
therapy can be that moment in your life is never
the same, and you're gonna see conversations or hear conversations
I guess in this podcast that are just unbelievable. Like
even I like I had to I had to put
myself in a very vulnerable state because it's not scripted.
I have no idea how this is going to go
(36:28):
like it could it could go totally left, or you
know whatever. But I thought it was important, especially for
the black and brown community, to see one what the
therapeutic process looks like, and two what it looks like
coming from us. I've talked to many, many black and
brown people who are hesitant to go to therapy because
(36:50):
it's very difficult to explain our experience to people who
aren't of our culture. So this opportunity when it came,
I was like, yes, I mean, it's a little scary
because I have no idea how these conversations going to go.
But I'm all in because I want people to see
it in its rawness, even when it doesn't go perfectly
well all of the time or even at all, but
ended up happening. I can't say too much right in
(37:11):
the middle of season one, but some of the things
that unfolded amongst this family inspired me, Like I'm pretty
confident I got inspired by them far more than they
got inspired by me. Like what the family healing that
this particular family was willing to take on and accomplish.
(37:32):
And I'm talking like generational traumas. I'm not just talking
about a trauma. I'm talking about like the legacy of
trauma that often exists in the families in our homes.
This family took it on and it's one of the
most inspiring things. Like it's one of the biggest honors
of my professional life to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Deeply. Well, you mentioned at the top of the show
that you will be releasing your fifth book. Can we
get six your Six Lives six book? Can we get
a little information? Or is it to so?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
No? No, no, So. We always talk about how we
need to talk to ourselves and how we need to
assess ourselves and how we need to look inward. But
what I don't think we often talk enough about are
the questions we ask ourselves. The root of solution focused
brief therapy is the way we ask questions. If you
(38:32):
solution focused brief therapy is a questions based approach, and
you have to be very careful and very attentive and
very kind of specific in the way you ask your questions.
So me and my colleague, doctor Adam Fewer, we were
really like and we've been doing this work for like
twenty years and just seeing people's lives completely transform. I
had this moment one time, and questions are really really
(38:54):
funny because when the human brain, here's a question, you
can't help but answer it. It's just the way it works.
Like if I ask you a specific question, the engineers
and people in this room would answer it because that's
the way the human brain works. I was given a
lecture in Louisiana one time, and I'm teaching the audience.
It's an audience of psychotherapists. I'm teaching this audience of
(39:14):
psychotherapists how to ask these questions. But in doing so,
I have to illustrate the questions. And we get to
the lunch break and the cameraman who was recording this
approaches me in tears and he said, you just saved
my marriage. I hadn't even talked to the guy. I
was like, what do you mean? And he said, I've
been all of the questions you're teaching this audience. I've
(39:37):
been answering, and I realize things I need to do
differently and things I need to say. And I just
called my wife and told her and all this stuff,
and that kind of put a seed in my head, like,
what if we could write a book that would teach
people how to ask themselves the kind of questions that
would ignite that internal superhero, that would ignite the resilience
(39:58):
that would move them from where they are to where
they want to be. So that's what this book is.
It's titled Change Your Questions, Change Your Life, and it
comes out in a couple of months. And I'm you know,
I've written a lot of books that are for psychotherapists
that have to be better at doing, you know, the
job we do. But this is the first book I've
written that like, I want every single human on earth,
(40:18):
which I know is not realistic, but I want everybody
on earth to have this book because I want everybody
to be able to ask themselves the kind of questions
that create healing instead of pain, and ask themselves kind
of questions that get their lives moving in the right
direction instead of being stuck. I mean, in your work,
how many people do you see that just describe themselves
as stuck. Well, the most powerful thing to get yourself
(40:42):
unstuck is a question, but we don't know that. But
if you can change the way you ask yourself questions
you transform your life. So that's what the book is about.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
So beautiful. I cannot wait to check it out.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I'm going to send you a copy.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Thank you and signs please.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
We are at the end of the show and I
would love to ask you. I asked every guest this
as we close, as everyone listens to this episode and
we have about a week getting ready for the next
every I asked that everyone takes some time to integrate it,
to think about it. So we're at the part of
the show that I like to call soul work. Okay,
(41:19):
I want to invite you to leave the audience with
a little bit of soul work. And maybe it's a
question that they can be exploring after this episode until
we meet again.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The question I would want everybody, because you're right, it
would definitely coming from me. It would definitely.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
It has to be.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I want you to ask yourself what do you want?
And then here's and I'm serious, this is very serious.
I want you to ask yourself what do you want?
And I want you to write down the answer, and
then I want you to ask yourself ten times what
difference would it make if I had that? And then
(41:57):
write down that answer, and then what difference would it
if I had ten times? So, for example, what do
you want I want to lose twenty pounds? What difference
would it make if you had that? I'd fit my
clothes better? What difference would it make if you had that?
And literally ten follow up questions and write them all down.
So by the time you get to number ten, I
(42:20):
promise you two things will happen. Number one, you'll be
in tears, and number two, you will be motivated to
create the action. Come on, how do we do Debbi?
Speaker 1 (42:31):
You got them up in their crevices. That is so good.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That's what I want people to do.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Black Effect Network. Everyone please check out his podcast Family Therapy,
all the books, especially the forthcoming one Fourth for Sure,
and how can everyone reach you? What are your socials?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Find me on Elliot's Speaks at Elliot'speaks. Make sure you
spell my name right with two l's and two t's.
And I would love to be connected with people and
send me DMS and comment and videos and let's interact
like I really really want to be a spreader of
hope and love. So the more people we can be
connected to the better.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Thank you so much. For your time today. Thank you
for your work.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
No, I appreciate thank you for.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Your work now, mistay today Today. The content presented on
Deeply Wells serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It
should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or
mental health guidance and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.
(43:35):
As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
that you may have. Connect with me on social at
Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go
to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're
listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
(43:58):
and subscribe and say end this episode to a friend.
Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black
Effect Network. It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and
me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by
Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(44:19):
visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Take a deep breath in through your nose. Hold it now,
release slowly again deep in, helle hold release, repeating internally
(01:02):
to yourself as you connect to my voice. I am deeply,
deeply well. I I am deeply, deeply well. I am
(01:24):
deeply wow. I'm Debbie Brown and this is the Deeply
Well Podcast. Welcome to Deeply Well, a soft place to
(01:44):
land in your journey, A podcast for those that are curious, creative,
ready to expand in higher consciousness and self care. I'm
Debbie Brown. This is where we heal, this is where
we become. Welcome to today's show. So I have to
center this by saying that my dear sister Angela Rai
has been raving about this guest, and right before we
(02:08):
synchronistically booked to come together, she said, I have to
introduce you to this person, and the very next day
we were able to serendipitously connect and get scheduled for
this show. So I'm so excited today to dive into
the work of this very special guest, Elliott Connie. Elliott
(02:30):
Connie is a psychotherapist, author, lecture and hope dealer. Elliott's
belief in human resilience is what caused him to fall
in love with the solution focused brief therapy and learn
the ins and outs of this approach. He has worked
alongside some of the most prominent figures in the SFBT
solution focus brief therapy. Field has lectured all over the
(02:51):
US as well as internationally in places like the United Kingdom, Russia, India,
and Australia, and has written four books on this solution
focused method. Elliott's mission is to inspire you and light
the fire and passion that solution focus brief therapy lit
in him, so that you two can help transform the
(03:12):
lives of others. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
I'm so happy you're here. I love all the clips
that I see of you online, and I think you
know what feels so special, And we're going to dive
into all your takes on this. But the mental health revolution,
we are in the decade of that in a way
that has never happened in human history before. But with
(03:37):
it is all the layers of nuance, right, It's not
this monolithic experience, and we have to find the ways
that are so unique to us that allow us to
heal and transform. But most especially I believe within black
and brown communities that face entirely different complex lived experiences.
With all of that being said, I'm so excited to
(03:58):
dive into this method that very honestly I know so
little about.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Wow. Okay, can you.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
Please, I mean share with this. What is SFBT.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Gosh Solution focused brief therapy is a way of doing
psychotherapy that is driven by what the clients hoped for
future is as opposed to what their problem orientation is.
So like, the single most common question that a help
or a psychotherapist, coach, whatever will ask a client upon
(04:34):
meeting them is you know what?
Speaker 1 (04:36):
It is?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
The most common question you would ask when you meet.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Someone, how do you fix me? I don't know?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Is what the professional would ask is what brings you here?
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Yes, right? What brings you here? And they're looking for
some sort of a problem answer anxiety, depression, you know, grief, whatever,
But someone using this approach would not ask that. We're
much more interested in where do you want to go
from here? So we immediately start our work by asking
about people's hoped for futures because to some degree, where
(05:06):
they've been is completely irrelevant to where they're going. Like,
there's this wonderful thing like anyone can get anywhere from anywhere,
and we've kind of taught ourselves that in order to
help you go where you're going, I got to know
where you've been. And that's one hundred percent not true.
That's just as silly as if you got into a
(05:28):
taxi cab and the cab driver said, where have you been,
as if that would somehow help them get you to
where you're going. And I think solution focused brief therapy
just kind of honors that idea that anyone can get
anywhere from anywhere.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
That is fascinating.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
I thought so too when I first learned about it.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
So kind of what I'm hearing in what you're saying
is that part of the approach is almost like reverse
engineering you because if we're thinking about where we want
to go, do we have to then figure out what's
in the way of us getting there? Or how do
you begin to engineer that experience?
Speaker 2 (06:02):
No, I think when you talk about things that you
really hope for, things that you like deeply and really desire,
you will actually figure out a way over the obstacle.
Like we don't have to like plan for it and
like develop a schedule on how we're going to handle
the things when there's something that you like, really want,
(06:25):
Like think about the things in your life that you like,
really wanted. When an obstacle comes up, you just naturally
trigger your own strength and resilience and overcome that obstacle.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The problem is when we are in trouble, like emotional
trouble again, like anxious, depressed, sad, whatever, we don't view
ourselves as resilient, strong overcomers. We don't view ourselves that way.
So then when we're in that state of mind and
a problem pops up, we actually give too much respect
(06:57):
to the problem and less respect ourselves. And I think
solution folks group therapy just reverses that because human beings,
every single human being on the planet, is a natural overcomer.
It's what we do, or you would never be who
and what you are, right, you would never make it
to forty years old, thirty years or whatever. You've overcome
(07:18):
so many challenges, but most of us just forgot it
along the way and we got overcome with problems or whatever.
It was my work. I want to inspire people. I
think a lot of times therapists get kind of sucked
into the idea of problem and that turns them into
a problem solver. And I don't want to be a
problem solver. I want to be a herd healer. I
(07:39):
want to be an inspirer of people, because an inspired
person is just accomplish, capable of accomplishing absolutely anything. I
believe in people so much that I genuinely believe like
my job is to inspire them and then get out
of their way, as an inspired person is capable of
unbelievable things.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
This is so interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We won't be talking like five minutes.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
I mean, my god, where will we go next? So?
How so this particular system of therapy is this? Is
this a system that could help people that have like
big T trauma in their lives?
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Absolutely? I mean the way I even heard about this
was because of the Trump. Like, so, to give you
a bit of a backstory, I was raised by a
very aggressive, very abusive, very emotionally unsafe father. My mother
is wonderful. I love my mother, but like she couldn't
(08:38):
even really parent because she was in protection mode that
whole time for me and my two brothers, and I
spent a large amount of my life anxious, depressed, and
quite frankly wanting to die. The best way I can
describe that state of mind to people was like I
looked around the world and I saw other people had
the white picket fence and the loving parents. Really, my
(09:00):
best friend across the street, we would play basketball in
his yard and his mom would literally carry a tray
of lemonade and bring it to us playing basketball, and
I'd be like, I don't, that's not what I have.
And if this is what I got and that's what
y'all got, like I just want to give this back, right,
That's the way I thought at the time. Yeah, and
(09:21):
I will never ever forget as long as I live.
I was about nineteen years old and I had decided
that life is not worth living. I don't I don't
want to live anymore, and I want to be really clear,
like I wasn't thinking about I had decided out, and
I was laying in my dorm room and for sometimes
I think God speaks to you. Sometimes I think the
(09:43):
universe speaks to you, or whatever you want to call it.
Sometimes a message it's placed upon you. And I was
laying in my dorm room knowing I've got a week
or two left, and just laying there, and one of
those times like a message was given to me. And
for whatever reason, I'm laying in my dorm room and
I started thinking about my eulogy, and I started thinking
(10:05):
of all my close friends. I was playing baseball at
the time, So all my teammates getting behind a podium
at some church at my funeral talking about how they
didn't know Elliott was this sad, or they didn't know
Elliott was this broken, or they didn't know Elliott was
in this much trouble, and for whatever reason, I couldn't
live with that. What I wanted them to say was
(10:26):
I didn't know Elliott's father was this much of a
tormentor like, don't blame me for this, like blame you.
And I was laying there in my bed like just
in tears, thinking they're gonna misunderstand this. They're gonna think
I'm broken instead of that dude is broken and thus
broke me. Yes, so blame the breaker, don't blame me.
(10:48):
And in that moment, I decided to outlive my pain.
I told myself as a nineteen year old, not that
I want to live, but I wanted to outlive this
pain so I could tell the story. That was my
desire at the time. The very next day, I went
to my advisor and I said, I want to switch
my major to psychology because I thought I can understand,
(11:12):
you know, I can understand that, no idea that I
would one day be a psychotherapist. But interesting, interesting things
started to happen, like once I decided to outlive my pain,
I had to make decisions that were congruent to the outliving.
I called my dad and I said, look, man, we've
been through a lot, and I can get through all
(11:32):
of it. I can forgive and move past all of it.
I just have four requests. Can't yell at me, hit me,
curse at me, or call me names. If you can
follow those four rules, I'll deal with everything else. And
he said you he hung up the phone. I was like, okay,
this is a moment I have to like decide. Am
I going to stick to who I want to be?
(11:52):
And I said, okay, call me when you can follow
those rules. And he hasn't called me since. The next semester,
I got a four point zero and I was like, wow,
I'm actually smart. I didn't know that I went to
college because I could play baseball. And the very next semester,
which was hard because you have to grieve the loss
of your abusive father. I tell me all the time,
(12:13):
like the hardest thing in the world is a grief
someone that's still here. But I got a four point zero.
I was like, wow, I'm actually smart. I ended up
graduating and somebody came to me and said, you'd be
a very good psychotherapist. I had no idea what that was,
and they said, you should apply to graduate school. Another moment,
I swear sometimes I think I think God's path is
(12:34):
just there. And my psychology program at this university I
was attending created a counseling program and they said, we
want you to be in the first cohort. I was like, okay,
I'm in. I just feel like this is one of
those moments. And while I was in graduate school, I
knew that I had saved my own life by hoping
(12:57):
for her future beyond pain. I knew that. So I
went to graduate school thinking I was going to learn
about the true levers of change. And we know what
the levers of change are their hope, love, inspiration, spirituality, nature,
like these are the things that create change. And when
I went to graduate school, all I learned about was
(13:18):
diagnosis and problems, and I learned to believe in human
beings through learning to believe in myself. And I just
couldn't believe that you're not talking to me about love, hope, warmth, nature,
the true things that lead to or change. You're not
teaching me how to inspire people. You're teaching me how
to diagnose them. And I thought that was a problem
(13:39):
because I don't want to look at people as broken,
because when you view somebody as broken, then you view
them through the lens of kent. When you view somebody
as healable, then you view them through the lens of capable.
And that wasn't what was happening, and I just thought,
I don't want to do this, and I made the
decision I'm going to quit graduate school, going to put
(14:00):
myself through this if that's not what I'm learning. And
that semester of my university hired this woman and they
brought her to my class and they said, we hired
this new professor. We had to let her talk for
like twenty minutes. You can take her classes next semester,
but we just want to introduce you guys to this
new professor. And I'm kind of checked out because I
(14:21):
knew I'm going to quit this program anyway. I'm not
a quitter, So I was going to finish the semester,
but like, I'm not going further, and she described solution
focus proof there was the first time I ever really heard
about it. The next semester, I took one of her courses,
and you know, when you're in graduate school, you take
you take a course where each chapter of a book
is a different therapy approach, and the solution focused approach
(14:44):
was about two and a half pages of that book.
But it was the first time I ever read about
hope and the things that actually lead towards change, and
I was moved. I was moved, and I was told
that not a lot of people in our field practiced
this way and think it's a band aid way of
doing therapy, and how could you possibly solve somebody's problems
if you're not focused on their problem? But I was like,
(15:06):
but I solved my problem by not focusing on my problem.
I actually focused on my internal resilience and strength, and
it literally transformed to press anxious, suicidal person into something different.
And I was just so on fire about it. So
I just started I wanted to learn everything I wanted
to learn everything about it, and I read every book,
(15:28):
every research article that I can get my hands on.
I started traveling the world to attend trainings from like
the Masters. You know, this is the early two thousands,
so like the Masters of the therapy world at the time,
and before I knew it, I had my own ideas
that I was developing about these things. And I was
encouraged to write a book. You said I had four books,
(15:50):
actually have five. My six is coming out in about
a month. And then people started asking me this. For me,
this is like a journal journey of discovery, like my
journey of healing is also a journey off discovery discovery.
When your father is beating you what people don't often
talk about, like bruises, heel, but when he's beating you,
(16:11):
he's also saying you're never gonna amount to anything, You're
a loser, you're an idiot, like all these things. So
I started learning like I'm actually pretty bright, like I
had a master's degree, hold kind of like a pretty
bright guy. I learned that I was really good at
speaking like somebody. When my first book came out, I
got an email and this person in bath, UK say, hey,
(16:33):
we want you to come to a keynote in bath,
UK and I was like, I ain't going to do that.
I've never been out of the country, I've never done
a keynote, Like y'all have to keep that. And I
watched an interview by the guy who founded Virgin the
Virgin Media Corporation, Richard Branson, and he said, when someone
ask you to do something that makes you uncomfortable, say
(16:53):
yes and then figure it out. And I was like,
all right, I'm uncomfortable, so I'm gonna say yes. And
I went to the post office and got my passport
and I was like, I'm just gonna live with whatever
happens upon that stage. I'll never thin get. I got
off the stage and somebody said you were meant to
be here, and I was like, Wow, that's unbelievable. And
(17:14):
from that time I've just been on fire about like
I want more people to know, not necessarily about solution
focused brief therapy, though that's part of it, but I
want I want more people to know that you can
completely transform your life with love and hope and inspiration,
and that starts with you, like it starts internally, like
you can truly learn to love yourself, like you have
(17:36):
to accept all of your flaws, Like no one is perfect.
But if we accept it, that's true, that no one
is perfect, then the opposite must be equally true. Like
if no one is perfect, that also means nobody is
imperfectly perfect. Everyone has some flaw and everyone has some brilliance.
(17:56):
So what if the key to life is to stop
focusing on your flaws and try to like fix them.
But what if the key to life is to like
focus on your brilliance and like totally lean into that
and totally fall in love with that part of you
and totally expand that part of you. And that's what
my work is about. Like my work, like I travel
the world, and I mean since covid mora online, I suppose,
(18:18):
but I write all kinds of books because I want
people to look at themselves and understand, yes, you have flaws,
because that's how we're all built, but you also have
brilliance and somehow the flaws have like blinking red lights,
but we got to go find the brilliance and we
have to check your ego and just like accept the brilliance.
(18:38):
Like growing up, I wanted to, you know, play third
base for the New York Yankees, Like, that's my ego,
Like I wanted to be like a celebrity athlete. That's
my ego. But my brilliance lied in this other area.
But if you follow that, then the rewards are so
(18:58):
beyond what you could believe anyway. So just check your
ego and find your presence. Hmmm, sorry, really long winded exposition.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It was so perfect.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
I have to tell you a whole thing in order
to tell your whole thing.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, thank you for sharing so much of your personal story,
everything you've said. I mean, it's just it's just so powerful.
And I think, you know, for those of us and
those listening that I've had, you know, especially some of
those really kind of gnarly childhood experiences, there is this
(19:31):
resilience that you know, there's this study. There have been studies,
but there's this new one coming out of Germany about
the way that trauma and some people can activate almost
like a superhero gene, Like it gives you this expanded,
kind of extraordinary form of optimistic resilience that allows you
(19:53):
not just to keep going, but to like break through
upper limits. And that's so much of what I'm hearing
in your life.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yeah, like if you understood, Like I saw a client.
Here's a good example of exactly what you're saying. Saw
a client one time who was telling me I have
these massive anxiety attacks, like these massive panic attacks. And
I asked how often really happen? And this person said, like,
you know, twice a day, something very frequent, and it
(20:22):
was a lot. And I said, how do you calm
yourself down? And she said I don't know. And I said,
what do you mean you don't know? She said, I have
no idea how I calmed myself down. And I said, well,
do you stay anxious all day? And she said no,
it just happens, you know, once or twice a day.
Said good, So you're simultaneously telling me that you have
(20:44):
frequent anxiety attacks, but you're also telling me you have
frequent recovery moments too, And she said yeah, but I
don't know how I do it. I said, well, then
I don't know if I can help you, Like can
you go home? And every time you get anxious, I
want you to pay extra close attention to what you do,
wow to come out of it, because you do it
once or twice a day, because you don't stay anxious
(21:05):
all day and she came back a week later she said,
I haven't had a single anxiety attack, So why not?
And she said, because the more I pay attention to
the things I do to stay soothed, then the more
I stay soothed. And that's like the best example I
can give of that idea that when we go through things,
(21:27):
it does trigger that like resilience, but we often don't
catch it because we're so focused on the thing we
went through, not necessarily the resilience that we got from
the going of the through. So this person had gone
through a lot in life and as a consequence, has
developed this massive issue with anxiety, but all she focused
on was the anxiety and the stuff that created it.
(21:48):
Once you triggered this person to focus on something else
problem in a way, like it just didn't exist anymore.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
That's so interesting. That's so interesting, Like I'm definitely hearing
like active awareness, and it's like she's pushed into being
in practice with how to tend to herself. Yeah, deeply, Well, elliot,
(22:16):
where does the rest of it go? Right? Like, when
I think about like the actual experiences, is it kind
of this one kind of enlightened experience of it clicking
and you are in full acceptance of the things that
happen to you or you know, I think for so
many that have had like trauma, there is this kind
(22:39):
of loop of thought, right, Like there are these intrusive
thoughts that can happen. Sometimes there is like manifestation of
autoimmune disease or different kinds of pain points in your
body that are reflective of that. Where where does all
of that go in this system? How do you work
with it?
Speaker 2 (22:58):
I don't mean to be flippant and I say this,
but it goes away because like you don't have the
physical manifestations because of the problem. You have the physical
manifestations because of the way you're perceiving the problem. Like
again to give an example, like I know what it's
like to be punched in the face by my father,
Like I know what that's like, a lot of people
don't know what their father's fists feels like. But I don't,
(23:20):
Like I can tell you what that feels like. There's
not anything I could like that happened. I don't have
a time machine. I can't undo it. I can't like
that happened. But when I understood that, I survived it.
When I started to think about what did I learn
from the surviving of it? When I started to think
(23:42):
about what superhero traits in me were triggered from the
going through of that, the depression went away, the anxiety
went away, the things that had plagued me went away,
and that that happens because we put our past in
an appropriate pay place, we developed those things. Like I
(24:03):
developed that anxiety and that depression and that low self
esteem because I had the anxiety, I didn't have the
memories in the right place. I was wondering why did
this happen? What was wrong with me that my father
didn't love me enough not to pund Like those things
are what lead to the physical manifestations, because that's what
leads to the stress, and the stress starts to deteriorate
(24:23):
your body and you start developing symptoms of that. But
it's actually a source of pride.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
I can remember vividly looking around my college classroom and
I'm on this campus, like I was asked to come
to this university because I could play baseball, And I'm
looking around and there was all these kids that come
from two family homes, large finances available to them. Every
(24:49):
semester they would get money from their parents go buy books,
and this one guy's mom was a really great cook,
and she would mail frozen meatballs and we'd all get excited.
I remember looking around and feeling really depressed that, like
somebody loves me enough to do that, or that's not
the environment I came from. But after a while I
(25:11):
was really proud of it. I was like, wait a minute,
I had just about every disadvantage that you could give
to me, and I ended up at the same university
you did, Like with all of your advantages and your
privilege and your affluence, I ended up in the seat
next to you, and I ended up in saying graduating classes.
You and I had every disadvantage that could have been
(25:35):
given to me. Well, when you think about things in
that way, then it doesn't cause you angst, it causes
you pride. And then I start to realize that I
represent much more than that, Like when I became a
psychotherapist and people were shocked that like the story that
I carried, and I realized, like, the power is in
(25:57):
your story, Like we all have a story, and my
ability or or my decision to share it became a
powerful tool for my healing, but also a source of infiration,
inspiration for people in our community who had never seen it,
therapists dressed like this, who've never seen a therapist listening
to jay Z or never seen a therapist doing the
(26:18):
things that I was doing. And and that's where all
that stuff goes, just goes away, because when you think
about something in a proper way, because the memory is there, like,
we can't do anything about that. The thing happened, so
now we have to put it in a proper context.
And when you put it in a proper context, even
your physical body will you.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
It's really powerful when someone comes to you and they have,
you know, this this vision of where they want to go.
They have this like you know, I'll give you maybe
a scenario.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
You know.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It's like if someone comes and they are you know,
just saying like I want it. I want to have
more meaning in my life. I want to have more
joy in my life. I want to live my purpose.
I want to have a family that is healthy that
I love. How does the journey begin?
Speaker 2 (27:13):
Well, the step, the first step when someone comes to me, which,
by the way, to be very honest with you, most
people don't know what they want. Really, yeah, what most
people are very aware of is what they don't want. Okay,
So when people come to me and I ask them
what is the thing you want, they basically say, not this,
whatever this is, whatever generation of this is around them. Like,
(27:37):
think about the way that we talk about sobriety, right Like,
in the world of sobriety, we don't talk about sobriety.
We talk about not using. So very often if I
ask someone who's struggling with a deddiction, what's the thing
you most desire, they don't say sobriety, loving their kids again,
or they say I just need to stop drinking or
(27:58):
drugging or whatever. So for me, the first step is A,
I have to have a way of having you articulate
what it is that you want, and then B I
have to have a way of you envisioning you taking
your first step. And one of the ways that I'll
do that is I'll ask them something like, suppose you
woke up tomorrow and it was the very first day
(28:19):
of those like sober version of you, the version of
you capable of healing the relationship with your partner, kids,
blah blah blah, what's the absolute first thing you would notice? So,
in my teaching. When I started doing this right, people
didn't believe me. I would tell them what was happening
in therapy, and they didn't believe me. So I started
recording sessions with clients permission, of course, and occasionally clients
(28:40):
would give me permission not only to record it, but
to show it in trainings. And I've got this guy.
I've got a videotape with this guy. He's using crystal
methane phetamine frequently. And I asked him what does he want?
He said, I don't know. No, I can't work with that.
I have to challenge You're like, what do you think
(29:01):
you want? I don't know, he said, it depends on what
we're going to talk about. I don't know what we're
going to talk about it. I just met you. But if
this is a useful conversation, what's that thing that you
would want? After about three minutes of him saying he
didn't know, he said, I need to stop using drugs.
And I said, what would you like to do instead?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (29:19):
And he said work on cars. Now, why that's so
important is because everyone has that thing that they can't
live without. Maybe it's drawing. For me, it's writing. I
love to write. Maybe it's swimming for another person, hiking
for another person's skating for who knows, But for this
(29:40):
particular man, it was about cars. Like he wanted to
be the mechanic version of himself. So I've got to
ask him, if you walk tomorrow's a mechanic version of yourself,
what would you be thinking about? And he said cake.
I was like, cake? Why cake? And he said, I
made a cake and there's a cake in my refrigerator.
And if I woke up tomorrow thinks about cake instead
(30:02):
of drugs, I would know. So, like, where does it start?
It starts with that first step, Like you wake up
thinking about cake, which is a very normal thing, right,
Like if I've had a delicious meal that I couldn't
eat the whole thing up and I put it in
a refrigerator, you wake up in the morning, You're like, oh,
I hope that thing is still in there, and I
can't wait to eat it today because I don't use
(30:23):
crystal mentenphetamine, so I don't wake up think about how
am I going to get my next hide. For him,
waking up and thinking about that thing and refrigerator is
a massive thing. So where does the journey start, It
starts with that first step that sounds mundane to the
average person, but to that guy, so get it, it
was massive, right And if we can talk about that
(30:43):
first step, so what's the next thing you would do?
And the next thing you would do? And he doesn't
even know it, but he's literally rewiring his brain literally,
because that's what words and envisioning do, that's what manifesting does.
If we talk about the day I start my sober
journey in real detail, like what would be on your mind?
You woke up? Cake? And then what would you do?
(31:05):
I'd have some cake? And then how would your kids
know that there's something slightly different about you? Well, I'd
play with him instead of running out, And he's like,
really detail. Fourteen months later I found out he hadn't
touched Krista mcthan vitamine since we had that conversation. Right, So,
how does that happen? By you trigger people to think
about step one, step two? Guess, because that's how change happens.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
The problem is most psychotherapists, they don't take the time
to learn that this man in his heart is a mechanic.
I remember there were some people watching when I did that.
I did it live the session that actually happened. We
got the recording, but I did it live. And they
are about thirty clinicians watching him, and some of them
had treated him in the past. About halfway through the
(31:47):
session he starts crying. So we're walking through like every step,
every detail, and about halfway through the session, he starts
crying and I said, you're okay. So yeah, he said,
you know, when I was a kid up until when
I was ten years old, every Saturday, my father would
wake me up on Saturdays. He'd sit me on his
(32:08):
lap and we'd go out on the driveway and we'd
work on cars together. And he said, and then without
any warning, when I was ten, my father passed away.
He said, I had the kind of father that gave
you heaps of positive energy. I'll never forget, like the
wind beneath your sales, that's exactly how you Worre did it.
And he said, I feel like that's why all of
(32:28):
this has happened. But it would feel really good to
get back to that. So at the end of this session,
I go talk to the people that were watching, and
again few of them had treated him, and they said
I had no idea he liked cars. I was like, well,
that's why he didn't change when you were talking to him.
You didn't earn the right to talk to him, because
if you don't know he loves cars, how could you
(32:49):
possibly treat him? Like we think if we learn everything
about a problem, about a person's problem, about a person's triggers,
then we know enough to help them. But that's that's
not true. Can be true, Like you have to know
what drives a person in order to help them create change.
And for him, these cars and now we know why
(33:10):
cars are very much connected to his father's legacy, which
matters him, and the drug use became like a numbing
agent for letting his father down. But when he can
recapture that, then he doesn't need the numbing agent. Yeah
you know what I mean. Like, So for me, that
that's everything.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
That is so powerful in my language kind of more
like mindfulness, mindful awareness. I'm just hearing the deep presence,
like it's deep connection to the present moment. And that's
in my world where change happens, you know, it's it's
it's in that space where you're just kind of in
that gap and there is this kind of opportunity to
(33:52):
spark creativity towards something that is so Wow. You have
a new podcast I do on the Black Effect Network
Family Therapy. Yes, So I'm going to read this synopsis
and then I'm going to dive in because this is
something that I think God so many are longing for,
(34:15):
but in a way that makes sense for us. You know,
all of our families can look so different and sometimes
peeling back those layers can feel really, really scary. So
your podcast on the Black Effect Network Family Therapy. Family
Therapy podcast is the display of exploration of self through
the means of conversation while constructing a nourishing space for
(34:38):
individuals looking to heal by revealing anxieties and exploring deeply
rooted problems, Family Therapy will document a family's journey as
they work through trauma in conversation with psychotherapist Elliot Khanni.
Over the course of sixteen weeks. Participants will examine their
life relationships, hardships, successes, shortcomings, and personal growth as they
(35:00):
seek progress. Therapy sessions will consist of individual and groups
conversations in an effort to restore old wounds. So your podcast,
we are hearing therapy sessions. Wow.
Speaker 2 (35:14):
In the real journey, like and it's wrong.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Oh wow, how has this process been and how many
families did you work with in this process so far?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Each season is going to highlight a different family.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Wow. Yeah, and that's so. I learned something recently that
it takes between eight and twelve therapy sessions to actually
see kind of change begin to occur. You don't believe that,
because I was going to say that sixteen weeks we
must really be getting a look at true kind of evolution.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
You will. Yeah, Well, first of all, I think I
think change can happen in one session. I think change
can happen in a single moment. In fact, I thinks
how life is definitely if you think about how your life,
everybody can think about their lives. Your life changed in
a moment, and people all the time. Why can't therapy
be a moment? Therapists kind of believe like it takes
me a while to solve a problem, maybe, but like
(36:07):
therapy can be that moment in your life is never
the same, and you're gonna see conversations or hear conversations
I guess in this podcast that are just unbelievable. Like
even I like I had to I had to put
myself in a very vulnerable state because it's not scripted.
I have no idea how this is going to go
(36:28):
like it could it could go totally left, or you
know whatever. But I thought it was important, especially for
the black and brown community, to see one what the
therapeutic process looks like, and two what it looks like
coming from us. I've talked to many, many black and
brown people who are hesitant to go to therapy because
(36:50):
it's very difficult to explain our experience to people who
aren't of our culture. So this opportunity when it came,
I was like, yes, I mean, it's a little scary
because I have no idea how these conversations going to go.
But I'm all in because I want people to see
it in its rawness, even when it doesn't go perfectly
well all of the time or even at all, but
ended up happening. I can't say too much right in
(37:11):
the middle of season one, but some of the things
that unfolded amongst this family inspired me, Like I'm pretty
confident I got inspired by them far more than they
got inspired by me. Like what the family healing that
this particular family was willing to take on and accomplish.
(37:32):
And I'm talking like generational traumas. I'm not just talking
about a trauma. I'm talking about like the legacy of
trauma that often exists in the families in our homes.
This family took it on and it's one of the
most inspiring things. Like it's one of the biggest honors
of my professional life to be able to do this.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Deeply. Well, you mentioned at the top of the show
that you will be releasing your fifth book. Can we
get six your Six Lives six book? Can we get
a little information? Or is it to so?
Speaker 2 (38:11):
No? No, no, So. We always talk about how we
need to talk to ourselves and how we need to
assess ourselves and how we need to look inward. But
what I don't think we often talk enough about are
the questions we ask ourselves. The root of solution focused
brief therapy is the way we ask questions. If you
(38:32):
solution focused brief therapy is a questions based approach, and
you have to be very careful and very attentive and
very kind of specific in the way you ask your questions.
So me and my colleague, doctor Adam Fewer, we were
really like and we've been doing this work for like
twenty years and just seeing people's lives completely transform. I
had this moment one time, and questions are really really
(38:54):
funny because when the human brain, here's a question, you
can't help but answer it. It's just the way it works.
Like if I ask you a specific question, the engineers
and people in this room would answer it because that's
the way the human brain works. I was given a
lecture in Louisiana one time, and I'm teaching the audience.
It's an audience of psychotherapists. I'm teaching this audience of
(39:14):
psychotherapists how to ask these questions. But in doing so,
I have to illustrate the questions. And we get to
the lunch break and the cameraman who was recording this
approaches me in tears and he said, you just saved
my marriage. I hadn't even talked to the guy. I
was like, what do you mean? And he said, I've
been all of the questions you're teaching this audience. I've
(39:37):
been answering, and I realize things I need to do
differently and things I need to say. And I just
called my wife and told her and all this stuff,
and that kind of put a seed in my head, like,
what if we could write a book that would teach
people how to ask themselves the kind of questions that
would ignite that internal superhero, that would ignite the resilience
(39:58):
that would move them from where they are to where
they want to be. So that's what this book is.
It's titled Change Your Questions, Change Your Life, and it
comes out in a couple of months. And I'm you know,
I've written a lot of books that are for psychotherapists
that have to be better at doing, you know, the
job we do. But this is the first book I've
written that like, I want every single human on earth,
(40:18):
which I know is not realistic, but I want everybody
on earth to have this book because I want everybody
to be able to ask themselves the kind of questions
that create healing instead of pain, and ask themselves kind
of questions that get their lives moving in the right
direction instead of being stuck. I mean, in your work,
how many people do you see that just describe themselves
as stuck. Well, the most powerful thing to get yourself
(40:42):
unstuck is a question, but we don't know that. But
if you can change the way you ask yourself questions
you transform your life. So that's what the book is about.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
So beautiful. I cannot wait to check it out.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
I'm going to send you a copy.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Thank you and signs please.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yes, ma'am.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
We are at the end of the show and I
would love to ask you. I asked every guest this
as we close, as everyone listens to this episode and
we have about a week getting ready for the next
every I asked that everyone takes some time to integrate it,
to think about it. So we're at the part of
the show that I like to call soul work. Okay,
(41:19):
I want to invite you to leave the audience with
a little bit of soul work. And maybe it's a
question that they can be exploring after this episode until
we meet again.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
The question I would want everybody, because you're right, it
would definitely coming from me. It would definitely.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
It has to be.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I want you to ask yourself what do you want?
And then here's and I'm serious, this is very serious.
I want you to ask yourself what do you want?
And I want you to write down the answer, and
then I want you to ask yourself ten times what
difference would it make if I had that? And then
(41:57):
write down that answer, and then what difference would it
if I had ten times? So, for example, what do
you want I want to lose twenty pounds? What difference
would it make if you had that? I'd fit my
clothes better? What difference would it make if you had that?
And literally ten follow up questions and write them all down.
So by the time you get to number ten, I
(42:20):
promise you two things will happen. Number one, you'll be
in tears, and number two, you will be motivated to
create the action. Come on, how do we do Debbi?
Speaker 1 (42:31):
You got them up in their crevices. That is so good.
Speaker 2 (42:37):
That's what I want people to do.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Black Effect Network. Everyone please check out his podcast Family Therapy,
all the books, especially the forthcoming one Fourth for Sure,
and how can everyone reach you? What are your socials?
Speaker 2 (42:51):
Find me on Elliot's Speaks at Elliot'speaks. Make sure you
spell my name right with two l's and two t's.
And I would love to be connected with people and
send me DMS and comment and videos and let's interact
like I really really want to be a spreader of
hope and love. So the more people we can be
connected to the better.
Speaker 1 (43:10):
Thank you so much. For your time today. Thank you
for your work.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
No, I appreciate thank you for.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Your work now, mistay today Today. The content presented on
Deeply Wells serves solely for educational and informational purposes. It
should not be considered a replacement for personalized medical or
mental health guidance and does not constitute a provider patient relationship.
(43:35):
As always, it is advisable to consult with your healthcare
provider or health team for any specific concerns or questions
that you may have. Connect with me on social at
Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram, or you can go
to my website Debbie Brown dot com. And if you're
listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget, Please rate, review,
(43:58):
and subscribe and say end this episode to a friend.
Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and The Black
Effect Network. It's produced by Jacquess Thomas, Samantha Timmins, and
me Debbie Brown. The Beautiful Soundbath You Heard That's by
Jarrelyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
(44:19):
visit the iHeartRadio app or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows.
Host
Devi Brown
Popular Podcasts
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Bobby Bones Show
Listen to 'The Bobby Bones Show' by downloading the daily full replay.