July 13, 2022 • 54 mins
In the aftermath of the 4 O’Clock Murders, the Kingdom of God is facing a crisis. For Gabriela and her siblings, the early 90s marked a turning point for the cult. Meanwhile, investigators from across the country have formed a team named after the youngest victim: the Jenny Task Force. Their progress is slow, until a chance auto theft arrest in Phoenix, Arizona seems to snare several of the cops’ main suspects: some of Ervil LeBaron’s eldest children, using fake aliases. But there’s one influential cult leader who is still on the run.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Yeah novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and
content that some listeners might find distressing, including references to
child abuse. Previously on Deliver Us from Hervill. I think
(00:29):
by the time Hervill had died, I knew it really
wasn't over, because with such an unstable group founded on
such erroneous principles, you never really know what to expect.
I'm Gabrielle Little Baron and my father is irvil LeBaron.
This is the book of the New Covenant. It's a
manifesto of irvil LeBaron. We had to be prepared to
(00:51):
kill the people we loved the most. That was the
only way to save their souls. They would be thankful
to us in the end, because otherwise they would go
to Hell forever of our cowardice. Murder was sort of
a natural thing with these faults. Dan goes off to
do his business, drops his drawers, and two people walk
(01:12):
up and shoot in their head in the chest with
the nine millimeter weapon. Here's a murder, and UH just
can't come up with anything. That's very frustrating. My name
is Lucy. I was married to doing Shinas. He said
to me that you know, past is past, when something
(01:34):
very serious is going on, we would do those kind
of heavy loaded prayers. So that was the spirit that
we were in in b f A in support of
the four o'clock murders happening in the States. I never
could believe that somebody would actually target a little girl
like that. To me, it was just surreal. It's like, no,
(01:54):
this is gonna be true. How can this happen? Who
did it and why? We got kind of a description,
you know, it was a guy in a suit with
a beard, which really didn't tell us a whole lot.
I understand what it's like to live in a terrorist organization.
I understand how mothers who strapped bombs to their children feel.
(02:18):
You know, it's the most horrific thing you can imagine.
The choreographed killings of Eddie Marston, Mark Chinov, Dwayne Nath
and his eight year old daughter Jenny quickly made national
(02:38):
news in the summer, and it didn't take police long
to figure out they were all connected. In fact, Detective
John Burmeister hadn't even returned from Rena Street, the crime
scene of Dwayne and Jenny's murder. By the time we
got back. Everybody knew that this was something that was
caused by a riff found the medalist woman. That was
(03:02):
already going on in the office. By the time we
got back, a cop investigating the killing of Eddie Marston
had seen the name irvil LeBaron in Eddie's case file
and the details of a detective named Dick Forbes. He
gave the detective a call, and Dick started telling him
what he knew, which obviously was quite a lot. Dick
(03:24):
also told the investigating cops they need to brush up
on their religious history. I think everybody involved in Investigator
picked up books and started reading upon it. And the
actual early history of the moment was that was a
pretty bloody, violent stuff. The cops weren't just learning about
early Mormonism and the doctrine of blood atonement. They were
(03:46):
learning about rvil Lbaron's cult, the murder of his brother Joel,
the massacre at Los Molinos, the killing of Rulin Alread,
and all the others, so many crimes, so many of
them still open cases. Detective Burmeister realized their investigation in
(04:09):
Texas was actually part of a much larger story, an
incredibly bloody and dark one, a hunt that had begun
in the seventies and was about to enter a completely
new level of intensity, primarily because of the murder. Detective
Burmeister had just caught one of the victims, Jenny Channath,
(04:32):
the kid unconnected to the cult. Her death had created
the Jenny Task Force. Detective Burmeister was now joining cops
like Steve Otechie and prosecutors like David Schwinderman ramping up
a federal investigation that started in the wake of Dan
Jordan's killing that's still unsolved, murder on the Hunting Trip
(04:56):
in The Jenny Task for was an investigation that would
reach out across America law enforcement agencies, sharing resources and
intelligence to track this new generation of the hervill La
Baron Coult the Kingdom of God k o G. Just
(05:19):
a few days after the four o'clock murders in July,
the Jenny Task Force met up. We all got together
in Salt Lake, Salt Lake City, Utah. It made sense
to do in Salt Lake because that was kind of
the heart of all of it, the headquarters of the
Mormon Church and the spiritual home to most Mormon fundamentalists,
including the Labarns. It was also the home of Dave Swenderman,
(05:42):
the federal prosecutor in the U. S. Attorney's Office who
had been involved in the Labarren case ever since Dan
Jordan was murdered. Swendeman told the team assembled in Utah
some chilling details from his case files how this latest
generation of the Colt was carrying out vengeance Rville had
ordered before his death in a book called the Book
(06:03):
of the New Covenant, a scripture for the family, something
that dictates to them how life should be. If you
know how to read it and you have somebody in
the family helping you interpret the book, you can find
the hit list in the book who's to die, Who's
not to die, Which meant even with these latest tragedies
(06:24):
in Houston and Dallas, the cult wasn't done. There's a
hard core of these kids, they're a little bit older
that are converted really into full on believers. They know
nothing else. They were raised in this environment and our
practiced killers. They know how to assimilar disassemble firearms, their
practiced liars, their practice forgers. They're extraordinarily good at evading
(06:50):
police detection. I mean, they're killing anybody that was a
potential threat, and they were doing away with them, each other,
family and they weren't ever being held to account. Dave
set two goals for the task force. Number one, stop
the killings, Arrest and prosecute the Kog's assassin's Number two,
(07:16):
break the cycle. Find and locate as many of Hervilabarans
children as possible, get them into stable homes. To stop
the spread of the colts twisted dogma of blood atonement
passing through future generations. Dave knew that for many of
the assembled cops this case would be different than any
they had worked or likely would ever work again, in
(07:39):
its scale and its intricacy, the mix of crime and
religious doctrine. I said, I know this is complicated, but
it is complicated. It's hugely complicated lives and this hugely
complicated family that lived by crime, existing on the edge
and just about every way you can think of, but
also doing a lot of it so they could prosecute
(08:01):
these murders. David told all this to the assembled team,
including John Burmeister and the other Texas cops. These are
hardcore Houston homicide detectives who had not seen something like this,
and it really struck him. It shook them to the bone.
We then started looking at everything. Detective Burmeister and the
(08:23):
team got to work. We've studied up on what happened
in other places and what the motives to Opper and
was how they did it, and they put a lot
of thought into what they were doing with these latest
Texas killings. There was evidence to process, potential new clues
and possible witnesses. In fact, one had already come forward
(08:44):
a witness to the immediate aftermath of the murder of
Dwayne and Little Jenny, someone who was pretty sure they
had seen the assassins. As they drove away. They told
Detective Burmeister what they'd seen. There was one person in
the car other than the person that got back into it,
so there were two people president the scene and the shooter.
(09:06):
I was wearing a suit, a dark suit, and I
had a beard. That's about it. Beard, short hair, dark suit,
Just a general outline. It wasn't much, but it was
a start, and the next leads for the Jenny Task
Force weren't far behind from the team's at Novel and
(09:38):
I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herbal episode twelve.
The Tide turns. Shortly after midnight on July, Detectives John
Burmeister and Dick Forbes. We're sitting in a conference room
(09:59):
at a police station in Phoenix, Arizona, and they were
feeling pretty good. The investigation into hervill Abarn's colt hadn't
had many lucky breaks since it began in the nineteen seventies,
but these two experienced lawmen couldn't dispute that they had one,
now more than one. In fact, in front of them
(10:23):
on the table were several piles of bagged evidence and
some mug shots suspects they were increasingly convinced were involved
in the four o'clock murders. Crucially, these were suspects who
were at this very moment in custody in the same
police station where they now sat, albeit for crimes unconnected
(10:46):
to the four o'clock murders. It had all begun less
than two weeks before. On the first of July, a
police officer was cruising along Black can And Road in Phoenix.
He pulled into a parking lot of a place called
the King's Inn Hotel, right off the interstate, a popular
(11:08):
spot with car thieves. They're in the lot, a seven
black Chevy Silverado pickup with Texas plates sat shining in
the Arizona sun. Something about it caught the cops attention,
and when he radioed in the license plate BINGO the
(11:29):
truck had been stolen in Texas just days before. The
cops approached. The clerk at the King's in front desk.
Had he seen any guests that stuck out him recently
long shot and a cheap motel, but the cop was
in luck. Some guests had caught the clerk's eye. The
motel operator was kind of suspicious because you've got all
(11:52):
these kids that are about the same age, But it
was just something wrong about this group of kids that
all come together. They were all well, clean cut, well
mannered in this rundown part of town that was noticeable.
The clerk said. The driver of the Chevy Silverado had
(12:13):
rented two rooms. Six people were staying with her at
the hotel. When cops raided the hotel rooms, they found
two spiral notebooks, a list of names, a chordless drill,
ignition switches, and black silicone, the tools of car thieves,
plus some other stuff, a bunch of evidence that nobody
(12:35):
knew made any difference or sense to anybody at the time.
Sensing they might have stumbled upon an international carjacking ring,
they bagged a lot. The local cops thought they were
about to make a big headline generating bust, but when
they swooped up the guests in the King's In hotel
(12:57):
and charged them, they had no idea what they'd really
just stumbled upon. Just days after the four o'clock murders,
most of the assassins caught on their way home to Mexico.
The cops might have never known all this if it
(13:17):
wasn't for the fake ideas the gang we're using. Up
until now, fake aliases had been one of the colt's
main tools in successfully avoiding detection by law enforcement. In
episode eight, Gabriella told me about how the cult created
new versions of themselves whenever they moved to a new place.
They were able to create official looking documents to match
(13:41):
these imagined new personas, mainly thanks to that cult member
called Linda Johnson. Linda was a master Forarder. Yeah, she
was good to bar certificates take her five minutes to make.
In the seventies and eighties, cops didn't have access to
nationwide linked computer systems or DNA databases, so whenever a
(14:04):
cult member was arrested, their fresh identity made it look
like a first offense. Hardest parts about track in this family.
They all these birth certificates and different names. They have
the aliases at the Kazoo, and once a cult member
had posted bail under a fake name, they had simply
skipped down before they had been linked to other lives
(14:24):
and crimes. It's what Hebrew had done following the disastrous
bank robbery back in six But in the summer of Phoenix,
the Kog's assassin's mistake had been to reuse their aliases
because the Jenny Task Force had checked all the hotels
in Texas and found some familiar names. When you go
(14:51):
into hotel, you check in with your driving a classes
member name, and then we started figuring out who was
here and used by two different names that they used,
but the hotels matching them up with the drivers that
they were using, and those same fake aliases were being
used here in Phoenix, Arizona. So once the Jenny Task
Force knew that they had their suspects, those mug shots
(15:15):
they were now sitting in front of in the Phoenix
police station, and then there was the bagged evidence in
front of them, part of that King's Inn hotel room hall.
I have the police report from that initial bust, and
it lists these items as a false beard, a false mustache,
empty shoulder holsters, tourists, thirty eight revolver speedloaders, street guides, maps,
(15:39):
a list of Texas police scanner frequencies. And then amazingly,
they found some newspapers that the kids had collected after
they had committed the murders in Texas and brought with them.
As soon as they committed the murders, they went and
bought all the newspapers and went to the hook Telling
(16:00):
Texas and read about what they've done, and then they
packed up and came to Arizona. For Detective Burnmeister, this
evidence Hall definitely brought into question some of the hyperbole
he'd heard from the other cops on this group being
sophisticated and methodical assassins. Some of the stuff that they did,
(16:22):
you know, having all that stuff in the car, it's dumb,
you know, I mean that's and keeping the suits is dumb,
and keeping the beards it's dumb. And actually they didn't
do a very good job at disposing of the weapons either.
The evidence seemed like a gold mine that could crack
the whole investigation wide open. When the cops left that
(16:44):
Phoenix conference room to go and talk to their suspects,
they must have felt like the dominoes were about to fall,
but in the coming weeks they'd crash against a familiar barrier,
the same barriers every cop looking into the herbal La
Baron Colt had faced. No one would talk, thanks to
(17:10):
the hall from the King's Inn, the beards and wigs,
and newspapers documenting the crime. They had evidence connecting the
Labarrens to the four o'clock murder, but they still didn't
know exactly what had happened that day, who did which hit,
and crucially who had killed Jenny. Everyone in custody remained
(17:32):
impenetrable a lifetime of training never to talk to cops.
At one point, the cops thought they were making headway
with Cynthia. They showed her grizzly photos of Jenny taken
at the crime scene. Cynthia was visibly shaken, but still
(17:53):
she wouldn't say a word. For Utah based investigator Steve Votechi,
these interviews were just as frustrating as the ones he'd
done with the Labaron kids following Dan Jordan's murder back
in and just like back then, the cops on the
Jenny Task Force started feeling the heat. We could get
(18:15):
intense with each other and you know, just rant and
rave or whatever, but when it came time to talk
to a suspect, it had to be cool and calm,
and it wasn't going to be possible to intimidate any
of them into confessing because they've been intimidated by experts
in their family for years, and so it could get
pretty intense. Months passed became eighty nine. What had seemed
(18:40):
like exciting new evidence that could bring the whole cult down,
well that feeling had given way to something else, a feeling.
Homicide detectives like John Burmeister knew all too well a
case going cold. All we had was just indirect evidence.
(19:00):
Even though those physical events, we couldn't tie it to
the murder, Even though we had beavers and suits and
all that. They had no idea who had them all.
But at least their suspects and custody were going nowhere.
Because while the Jenny Task Force had been failing to
make progress, the Phoenix p D had moved forward with
their car theft investigation. They didn't need the Kogs cooperation
(19:24):
to bring charges on that they had airtight evidence. In
August of more than a year after the four o'clock murders,
five members of the Kyog pled guilty to auto theft charges.
Hebrew and Doug Barlow were sentenced to ten years in prison,
(19:45):
Cynthia and Tarsa to five years, and Richard, who was
seventeen but was tried as an adult, was given three
and a half years. Those working the Jenny Task Force
were relieved. Some of the Kog leadership will be hind bars,
but they didn't have all their suspects Aaron, Natasha and Patricia,
(20:06):
for example. They were all large. On top of that,
the car theft sentences would in all likelihood be significantly
reduced for good time. Ten years could be five, five
could be just a few years, and then they'd all
be out and back in Mexico planning more murders. And
(20:29):
this went against that central aim of Operation Jenny, to
break the cycle of violence, to stop future generations from
becoming caught up in this fanatical dogma of killing in
the name of God. They wanted to pull the children
growing up in the colt away from it, the kids
(20:51):
who had yet to become killers, kids like Gabriella le Baron,
who as the eighties turned to the nineties, was far
from splitting from the Colt's ideology. In fact, she was
becoming more and more extreme. That's coming up after the break.
(21:23):
When news of the four o'clock murders reached Gabriella LeBaron
and the rest of the kog at their remote Mexican
hideout b f A, the cult members were conflicted. On
one hand, there was a muted rejoicing that God's will
had been fulfilled. Dwayne and Markina and Eddie Marston had
(21:47):
marked themselves for death by betraying God's kingdom on Earth.
They were sons of perdition and as such they had
to be blood a tone to be saved from an
eternal health. It was a form of mercy to kill them.
But Jenny, the eight year old girl, she was innocent
(22:10):
killing her cast a Paul over the camp. Then word
reached the b f A of the arrest in Phoenix,
and as the months passed it became clear that Hebrew, Doug, Richard,
and Cynthia weren't returning anytime soon. We split into two
different groups. I mean, we didn't split ideologically. Some kids
(22:32):
went to the States to work and send us money,
and then others were sent to Monterey, Mexico without Hebrew
and co stealing cars and packing weed for the Mexican mafia.
The kog needed new sources of cash badly to feed,
house and clothe the Kingdom of God, so they went legit.
(22:54):
We were getting out of the mafia trade, and we're
going to go back into selling washers and tryers. Gabriella
was just thirteen years old in n without Hebrew and
some of the others around to provide muscle and protection.
Working for the cartels had become too much of a risk.
The mafia trade became too dangerous and crazy, right, you know,
(23:15):
Like we had to get out of there, so why
don't we try something else. They left b f A
and the mafia town of Navajo and moved to Monterey,
which today is one of the wealthiest cities in Mexico,
has a reputation for being safe, orderly where you might
go if you want to become legit. But my experience
(23:37):
in Mexico is money ran dry. We had no more
money to eat, and we kind of went hungry for
a while. We were literally just on beans, nothing else,
not even soul and once in a while you can
have a tortilla, have a tritia. Gabriella and the other
older kids decided they needed to get jobs. Gabriella spook
fluent Spanish and English, so the eighteen year old cult
(24:00):
member became an English teacher. I put makeup on in
high hills and it was terrible. Also ashamed. I was
a tough person, not this one in makeup and heels. Well,
I had to do it. Other siblings in Monterrey also
started teaching, and for really the first time in their lives,
(24:21):
found they were interacting with the world outside their cult
in a meaningful way. And then they became exposed. They
found these older, wiser adults, really good hearted people who
kind of took them under their wing and just started
teaching them about the world and offering care and guidance
(24:42):
and helping them to see. And then a few years
later they were just like, Okay, we're done with this.
All of this is bullshit, So fuck the KG, all
the hunger, all the terror, all the killing, and now
they were just done with it all. Gabriella was incredulous.
(25:08):
I wasn't on board. I was not going to let
everyone off that easy. She convinced some of her siblings
to not give up on God on their father's wishes.
She reminded them that the hardships of the cult were
a test. What they needed to do was doubled down
on their worship, try harder to reach God. So that's
(25:31):
what we did, and we all went on something called strike.
This was the beginning of something Gabriella's family calls the
strike period, as in strike against the outside world. We
thought that God was cursing us for not for not
being good enough, for becoming too worldly. If you have
(25:57):
a job in the world, or if you have friends
that are outside of the cult, you mingle in any
way with anybody outside of the cold, or flirt with
boys or anything. We're the wrong kind of shoes and
makeup and start being social. All that is worldly and bad,
and God will curse you. But the thing with us
(26:19):
is that God didn't only curse us. Okay, God curse
the whole world. It's like in the Bible, one person
does something bad and they destroy the whole freaking city.
Gabriella quit her teaching job. We needed to go on
some missions. We need to do ourselves, even though all
the adults were in jail now and we need to
carry on continuing the murder spree. Basically, so we did
(26:42):
our solemn assemblies. We fasted for a week, fraid twice
a day, did two solemn assemblies a day, which like
each one is two or three hours long, so it's
like all day long your prayers. It's terrible. M This
strike was a rejection against what they deemed as corrupt
(27:06):
Western or American outside influences. The United States was definitely
the big evil country. We all decided to know that
all that is evil, all these things that everyone else
is doing their normal lives of people are living, all
that is bad. Every part of it is bad, So
don't even think of it. You can't talk to anybody,
you can't have friends. And there was a point that
we couldn't even study outside world books, so you know,
(27:29):
kind of like think of some extremist community saying all
everything Western is bad, right, so burn it all. Gabriella
and a few of her siblings rejected anything that represented
the corruption of the world. One day, Gabriella and these
siblings gathered up as many of these corrupting possessions as
they could find, and dumped them in a big heap
(27:51):
in the backyard, douse them in gas, and then we
burned it all in the big bonfire. Literally birth it
all in a big bonfire. Literally burnt it all in
the big weldfire, all of our shoes, anything that was worldly.
The whole idea here was to somehow like purify yourselves,
get back in the graces of God. Yes, basically, and
(28:14):
God needed to bless us, send us some sort of
answer because we didn't have any answers. There was no
communication from heaven. So we did the very best we could.
We got rid of everything that was worldly. They were
offering a sacrifice to God in the form of fire,
(28:36):
a burnt offering similar to those mentioned in the Bible.
Maybe by showing God they wanted nothing to do with
the world at large, he would give them some kind
of sign. No answer came right, and no answer ever came.
I think of teenage Gabriella staring into the flames of
(28:59):
that Monterey fire, trying to make sense of the deafening
silence from her God, the God she had obeyed so
faithfully since birth, the God she and her family had
given so much for, had taken so much from others
for a God who still would not even acknowledge their existence.
(29:22):
And I wonder, did it feel similar to the way
I felt when I prayed, back when I believed, before
my doubts had risen to the surface. Faced with such confusion,
you reach down within yourself resolve, you'll try harder to
(29:43):
find a way to reach God. But maybe now it's
me who's reaching to try to compare my own experiences
with the extremities that Gabriella and her siblings had known
since birth. Shortly after Gabriella quit her teaching job and
(30:10):
went on strike against the outside world, she was presented
with more earthly practical concerns. We ran out of money,
we ran out of food, We got kicked out of
the house, and then we went to live in a
shed on some pig ranch farm. So we lived in
this shed and there were these big giant rats everywhere
(30:30):
and roaches, and since we didn't have money or food,
we had to beg for food. I had to go
to the Medicago like the open market and take whatever
rotten food that people were getting rid of, and being
that home and cut off the wrong parts. No me,
of course, just fruits and vegetables, and that's what we
(30:51):
would eat. Living among the rats and ruin, Gabriella must
have felt like the Kingdom of God had hit rock bottom,
but it would turn out that there was further to go.
It was now and across the border. The members of
(31:12):
the Jenny Task Force were unaware of the cracks now
splitting the kog in Mexico. Dave Schwinderman, the federal prosecutor
in the U. S. Attorney's Office in Utah, had made
little progress in either the four o'clock murders or the
Sandpete County killing of Dan Jordan's, but there had been
(31:33):
some success in the second goal of the Jenny Task Force,
finding stable homes for children born in the colt In.
Cops had raided appliance repair shops the kog Ran in
Atlanta and Chicago. While the adults they arrested awaited trial
on various charges, the kids working in the repair shops
(31:53):
were put in foster care. We got material witness warrants
for all of the kids, and then we brought them
all to Salt Lake and then put them before the
grand jury and did our interviews with them, spent lots
of time with them. But as usual. These La Baron
kids wouldn't talk. When they did talk, they told us lives,
(32:13):
and we knew their lives, so it wasn't worth pursuing it.
And the hopes that getting them in stable homes would
break the spell of Hervil LeBaron's dogma didn't last long.
No sooner had the children of the Koji even put
in foster homes, that the Colts leadership tracked them down
and helped them flee and then just disappear, Go back,
(32:37):
go back to Mexico. Dave Schwindermann was facing the most
difficult case of his career. These are encapsulated communities, difficult
to penetrate to investigate for crime, even more difficult to
penetrate for any kind of social service or whatever else
(32:57):
they might need. They kept to themselves and kept things
very tightly controlled, and things for the Jenny Task Force
got worse because in the early nine nineties, the KOG
members convicted in the Phoenix auto theft case started to
be released from prison. Richard LeBaron got out, and then
(33:17):
Cynthia LeBaron got out, Just as the cops had feared,
the COLT was regrouping. So how much of your time
and attention during that period was still focused on this case,
And did you feel like the trail had kind of
gone cold or what were you and Dick and others
doing keeping the records together, keeping people from getting rid
(33:41):
of cleaning files out, actually having to bring files into
my office and just stack them in my office so
that people didn't go through and perjam talked a lot.
We made sure that we kept in Dutch all the time,
looking for anybody popping up because we felt there might
(34:01):
be more murders. At some point, I got the family
recognized as a domestic terrorist case, which it was, but
it was hard to convince people at the time that
this was domestic terrorism, even though they ain't killed thirty people.
And we just kept it going, kind of not really
expecting or looking for a break. And all of a sudden,
(34:24):
Dick Forbes gets this phone call from Cynthia LeBaron. It
was the Jenny Task Force received a jolt from the blue.
Dick calls me on the phone and says, Hey, I
just got this phone call. I know it's from Cynthia Bricu.
(34:45):
I recognized her voice. She says that she and Jessica,
her sister. I want to turn themselves in. They're willing
to tell us everything, and they want some protection. Cynthia
was calling Dick from Monterey, Mexico. Cynthia told Dick things
had happened in Mexico that made her and her sister
(35:06):
fear for their lives. After leaving prison, Cynthia had done
exactly what police feared she would do. She'd headed straight
to Mexico to rejoin the Kog, but something had changed
for Cynthia. Upon returning. She had found a boyfriend outside
the Colt, which was against the rules and infraction punishable
(35:30):
by death, and that's why Cynthia said she was calling
Dick Forbes. She wanted out. She was ready to tell
all in exchange for protection. But the cops had mixed feelings.
On one hand, this was the sort of break they've
been chasing for decades. On the other, considering the modus
(35:52):
operandi of the Colt, they couldn't help but worry that
this was a trap, because what they say to him
on the phone is we only trust you, and Schwindman
only you too. We'll meet you in Texas. It was
always in the back of your mind, you know, is
(36:12):
this a lure? He had to wonder. After all, this
is what the cult of Herbal le Baron were known for,
luring their prey out into the open. It had happened
to Joe le Baron lured into that house in en Sonata,
the villagers lured out of their homes by fire and
Los Melinos. There was that botched attempt to kill Verlin
(36:35):
at Rulin al Red's funeral. It had even been the
way Dwayne and Jenny Channath had been lured out to
Rena Street a call about a washing machine that needed
picking up. When this call came in there, that's what
we thought our turn. They're working to Laura on us.
Do we actually take them at their word that they
(36:56):
want to talk to us? Were we're smart enough to
avoid being killed? But after such little progress, how could
the cops turn down this opportunity to get inside the
workings of the colt? How do we do this? Do
we follow up? That's coming up? After the break in
(37:23):
their offer to the Jenny Task Force, Cynthia and Jessica
le Baron had been clear they were willing to spill
all the cult secrets and they wanted protection in return.
But crucially, they were only prepared to deal with two
members of the Jenny Task Force. They made this demand
(37:44):
during that first phone call to Dick Forbes, who passed
on the message to David schwindermann, the lead prosecutor on
the Jenny Task Force. They're willing to tell us everything
and they want some protection. But here's the catch, it's
only you and me. They'll trust Dick Forbes because he
knew the case like no other, and David Schwinderman because
(38:07):
as the federal prosecutor he had the most reach for
accessing things like the Witness Protection Program. But even though
the Jenny Task Force had now agreed to risk meeting
Cynthia and Jessica, when it came to this demand for
it to just be Dick and Dave at the meat,
Swinderman wasn't going to take the risk. A said, well, look,
(38:29):
I'm willing to go with you. We'll go down there.
We'll do this, but honestly, Dick, you gotta get ahold
of Burmeister and you guys that are working it from
the Eastern homicide side that were part of this group,
and we gotta go down there together. Having met John Burmeister,
I can understand Swinderman's instinct to bring him along too.
(38:51):
Definitely the kind of guy you want to bring to
a fight, and Burmeister was ready. Turns out he's been
waiting for something like this to go down. I had
a feeling that sooner or later they'd go overboard with
their family problems and that somebody would come forward because
they were either scared, or they're just tired, or a
little that way. The plan was to meet Cynthia and
(39:16):
Jessica in Laredo, Texas. That's sitting on the Mexican border
where Herville had crossed into the US in handcuffs years before.
I get the FBI involved, I get Customs involved so
that they could come across the bridge at Nuevo Laredo
without being interfered with. And we're to meet them at
a certain time on a certain day. The location for
(39:40):
the meeting was agreed the Howard Johnson a motel downtown.
A few days later, it was on. We fly to Laredo, Texas,
we go to the Holiday Inn and we set up
and then there's this gonna tell where we're supposed to
(40:01):
meet these kids at seven o'clock at night. We've got
police back up as well, because we weren't sure how
this was going to turn out. So they kind of
clear out one board of the motel and we go
around and the cops go to the door and knock
on the door, the detectives, and there's no answer, you know,
(40:21):
nobody comes to the door. And so immediately they grabbed
me by the back of the shirt and pull me
around the corner to get me out of the line
of fire. And they all take positions in the shrubs
and everything else with aim on this door because they
figure it's a lower you know, we've been sucked into
this trap. And while this is all going on at
(40:44):
the Howard Johnson's, across the parking lot, there's this group
that starts to gather at the windows. And in that
group that's gathered at the windows as Cynthia and Jessica
and their two Mexican boyfriends watching this whole thing developed
and on the parking lot. In other words, it hadn't
(41:05):
been a trap. There had been some kind of mix up,
and once the confusion had lifted in two separate hotel rooms,
Forbes and Swinderman began their first of a series of
interrogations of Cynthia and Jessica LeBaron and we go all night.
This interview is just Stone called chilling. Over the course
(41:26):
of that night and in further interviews over the coming days,
Swinderman and the others on the Jenny task Force listened
in astonishment as the veil of secrecy that had long
shrouded the Kingdom of God began to lift. And no
sooner had they started sharing information with the cops than
more colt informants began to surface. That normally happens once
(41:48):
somebody turns it, it's not a domino effect before all
they all do. And basically that's what happened. That's what
happened with the other kids. You know. Danny was the
next one that came across. Danny le Baron, a kid
just sixteen years old at the time, he decided he'd
had enough of the Kog. He called and said that
(42:11):
he was concerned about himself and Richard. Richard le Baron
was seventeen years old at the time of the four
o'clock murders. Gabriella described him as fun and laid back,
turned everything into a joke, well maybe not everything, because
word was now out in the Kog that Richard and
(42:33):
Danny were next in line for blood Atonement and all
the other family members loved him. Richard was the hero,
so he was a big influence on the rest of him.
When Richard eventually sat down with Burmeister, he was ready.
Richard was straightforward as a witness. I didn't tell you
(42:56):
anything he was that's gonna get him. I don't want
nothing else to do with this. I'm gonna be a
son of perdition and I have a different lifestyle. Richard
didn't hold back any details. He was a straight shooter.
You can tell that from the get go. This guy
(43:17):
is not gonna lie to him, and he's gonna tell
me everything that he knows about everything. Richard's confession was
perhaps the most significant so far. During the questioning, he
told me what happened, He said to you, I killed
I'm the one who killed Dwayne and Jenny. Yeah. I
got pretty emotional that he he broke down and cried.
(43:44):
I had to consider that he was a kid when
it happened, you know, and it's not like he was
full grown man. But it did bother me that I
was talking the guy to killed a little girl. How
did he feel about killing an eight year old? What
did he tell you? He had to do it. He
was ordered to absolutely he ever morse for it. Oh absolutely,
(44:10):
I'm sure he still does. By the time the cops
were done, they had a timeline for the four o'clock murders.
Beat by beat. Doug Barlow had killed Eddie Marston, shooting
him as he went to collect the washer dryer. Hebrew
Le Baron had killed marching Off while he sat in
(44:33):
his office chair, with Cynthia and Natasha waiting in the
car outside. And Richard had shot and killed Dwayne and
Jenny while Patricia sat waiting in the Chevy Silverado that
had come barreling down Rena Street, trapping the two victims.
Jenny was only killed because she was old enough to
be a witness. In fact, Patricia had to send Richard
(44:55):
back up the driveway to kill her. Patricia it told Richard,
she's old enough, she can be a witness. You gotta
go kill her. But the cops weren't done with the
confession they had so far from Cynthia, Danny, Jessica, and Richard. Next,
(45:17):
they moved on to members of the Colt who were
still incarcerated, the ones still serving time for those grand
theft auto charges in Arizona, Dave Schwindermann and John Burmeister
went to see Patricia in jail and Phoenix. It was
a slow process with her. I talked to her for
(45:38):
hours and hours and hours, and I told her upfront
that you tell me whatever you want to. I'm not
going to pressure you to talk about in Houston case
unless you decide that you want to do it. I
could tell that she was pressing me for information just
as much as I was trying to press her for information,
because she didn't know what was going on with the
rest of the family. She'd been in isolation ever since
(45:59):
the inditements came out. And we got to the point
we said, well, you know, Richard told us everything, told
us what you did, what he did, what everybody did.
He said, I've got his confession. And if I really
she said, well you got Richard, I'm pretty sure you
know everything that happened. I might a slow go Richard trout.
(46:22):
Richard's route meant full disclosure. And this wasn't just the
corroboration of the testimony of her siblings. She told them
things that were even more shocking. And I want to
warn you here that this next piece of tape is
about as distressing as a story as I've heard, it's
one minute forty seconds long, so skip ahead if you
(46:45):
don't want to hear it. Patricia had a baby, a
little boy, as I recalled by Hebrew, her brother, and
the baby was sickly and was crying all the time.
Hebrew told her to do something about the child. You know,
child is screaming too much. Just do something with the child.
(47:05):
And Patricia tried, but she couldn't make the child go quiet.
She said, we need to take the child to a doctor.
Of course, taking somebody to the doctor would have given
away a lot of what the family was about. They
needed to keep to themselves and keep by themselves, so
going to a hospital was not something that anybody really
wanted to do. But Patricia eventually prevailed on Hebrew to
(47:28):
take the child to a hospital. So Hebrew loaded Patricia, himself,
and the baby into the pickup truck and they began
to drive towards their man ceo. Patricia's holding the baby
and the baby's crying. They get part way to aara
massio in the middle of nowhere, Hebrew pulls the truck over.
He said, give me the baby. She says no. Hebrew
(47:51):
said give me the baby and get out of the truck.
I had no choice. I gave him the baby. The
baby's crying. I walk away from the truck and the
baby stops crying. I go back to the truck and
the baby's blue, and he says here. We then drive
into air massile. We drive through the entrance to the
emergency room at the hospital arms CEO and he tells
me to throw the baby out, so I do, and
(48:13):
they drive off. It was the only time I saw
her show any emotion, and with this tiny tear that
trickled down her face. At the end of that conversation,
we had to get out of the room. After years
(48:33):
of desperately trying to get the colt to talk, they
had finally heard enough. I can only imagine how it
must have felt to hear all these confessions. Dave schwinderman
Like myself, being someone raised as a Mormon, You're hearing
this bizarre tail that is so close to what you
(48:56):
were raised and believed in everything else, but it's flipped
on its head. It's a one eight. I mean to
commit these murders. That's their mission. And of course Schwindermann
was hearing information on cases he'd been working on for years,
(49:17):
not just the four o'clock murders, like the open investigation
into Dan Jordan's murder. Patricia described for us that Patricia
and Hebrew drove up from Mexico and we're told where
the campsite was by the kids. They knew when they
(49:37):
were going to be there. They knew where the campsite was,
and according to Patricia, she and Hebrew waited down on
the road until they could see what was going on.
And then Hebrew went up into the place where Dan
was doing his stuff and shot him. And you remember
(49:58):
Leo Evanick, that I who killed Gabriella's big brother, Arthur Leo,
who had tried to still the kids with the Rio's brothers. Well,
it turns out after he was driven off, Hebrew shot
him ten times, shot him running away. Patricia drove, but
Hebrew shot him. They took his body, put it in
(50:21):
Leo's vehicle and drove the vehicle off and buried Leo somewhere.
But despite all these confessions, all these new deaths and
leads from the cult members who are now talking, the
decision was made that, apart from the four o'clock murders,
none of these crimes would move forward to trial. The
(50:45):
cops were going all in on a conviction for the
Texas shootings. He went with the Texas murders because we
had better evidence. We actually had physical evidence that we
could use, We had a story that's stuck together, and
we had people that were in the family that were
welling to testify, and so the Jenny Task Force was
finally ready to move forward with charges, but Richard le
(51:07):
Baron was singled out. We made a plea arrangement with
Richard and used him as a witness in the trial. Cynthia, Jessica,
and Danny were now in the Federal witness Protection program,
providing testimonies that would keep them out of prison two.
But for the rest of the Kog suspects, everybody got
(51:28):
died in Patricia was already in jail, Eber was already
in jail, Barlow was already in jail, and Phoenix they
weren't much of a problem. That left Tarson Aaron the
last two members of the Kog leadership still at large.
But surely it was just a matter of time before
those two loose ends would be tied up and finally
(51:53):
the killing would end once and for all. That was
just around the next corner, right right. I remember just
having this really strong conclusion in my head. I was like, look, God,
if you want me to go and build the chi,
(52:15):
I'm going to do it. I'm ready. I was so ready.
Just tell me and I'll go. That's coming up on
the final episode of deliver Us from Herbal. Deliver Us
(52:44):
from Herville is hosted by me jesse Hyde and written
and reported by me Leona Hamad and David Waters. Production
from Leona Hamid and David Waters. Sean Glenn and maxwe'brien
are executive producers. Lena Chang and Megan Oyinka are researchers.
Marianna Gongora is our field producer. Fact checking by Donya
(53:08):
Suleman and Sona Avakian. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie
Taylor and Charlotte Wolfe. Austin Mitchell is our creative director
of production. Michae Lee Row is our managing editor. Gavin
Haynes is our head of development. Willard Foxton is our
creative director of development. Sound design, mixing and scoring by
(53:30):
Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander
and David Waters. Our music is composed by Julian Lynch.
Special thanks to Scott Anderson, Scott Carrier del van Ada,
Pippa Smith, Saskia Edwards, Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norvelle and beth
Ann Macaluso or In Rosenbaum, Shelby Shankman and all the
(53:54):
team at U t A. For more from novel, visit
novel dot audio
Yeah novel. A listener note this episode contains violence and
content that some listeners might find distressing, including references to
child abuse. Previously on Deliver Us from Hervill. I think
(00:29):
by the time Hervill had died, I knew it really
wasn't over, because with such an unstable group founded on
such erroneous principles, you never really know what to expect.
I'm Gabrielle Little Baron and my father is irvil LeBaron.
This is the book of the New Covenant. It's a
manifesto of irvil LeBaron. We had to be prepared to
(00:51):
kill the people we loved the most. That was the
only way to save their souls. They would be thankful
to us in the end, because otherwise they would go
to Hell forever of our cowardice. Murder was sort of
a natural thing with these faults. Dan goes off to
do his business, drops his drawers, and two people walk
(01:12):
up and shoot in their head in the chest with
the nine millimeter weapon. Here's a murder, and UH just
can't come up with anything. That's very frustrating. My name
is Lucy. I was married to doing Shinas. He said
to me that you know, past is past, when something
(01:34):
very serious is going on, we would do those kind
of heavy loaded prayers. So that was the spirit that
we were in in b f A in support of
the four o'clock murders happening in the States. I never
could believe that somebody would actually target a little girl
like that. To me, it was just surreal. It's like, no,
(01:54):
this is gonna be true. How can this happen? Who
did it and why? We got kind of a description,
you know, it was a guy in a suit with
a beard, which really didn't tell us a whole lot.
I understand what it's like to live in a terrorist organization.
I understand how mothers who strapped bombs to their children feel.
(02:18):
You know, it's the most horrific thing you can imagine.
The choreographed killings of Eddie Marston, Mark Chinov, Dwayne Nath
and his eight year old daughter Jenny quickly made national
(02:38):
news in the summer, and it didn't take police long
to figure out they were all connected. In fact, Detective
John Burmeister hadn't even returned from Rena Street, the crime
scene of Dwayne and Jenny's murder. By the time we
got back. Everybody knew that this was something that was
caused by a riff found the medalist woman. That was
(03:02):
already going on in the office. By the time we
got back, a cop investigating the killing of Eddie Marston
had seen the name irvil LeBaron in Eddie's case file
and the details of a detective named Dick Forbes. He
gave the detective a call, and Dick started telling him
what he knew, which obviously was quite a lot. Dick
(03:24):
also told the investigating cops they need to brush up
on their religious history. I think everybody involved in Investigator
picked up books and started reading upon it. And the
actual early history of the moment was that was a
pretty bloody, violent stuff. The cops weren't just learning about
early Mormonism and the doctrine of blood atonement. They were
(03:46):
learning about rvil Lbaron's cult, the murder of his brother Joel,
the massacre at Los Molinos, the killing of Rulin Alread,
and all the others, so many crimes, so many of
them still open cases. Detective Burmeister realized their investigation in
(04:09):
Texas was actually part of a much larger story, an
incredibly bloody and dark one, a hunt that had begun
in the seventies and was about to enter a completely
new level of intensity, primarily because of the murder. Detective
Burmeister had just caught one of the victims, Jenny Channath,
(04:32):
the kid unconnected to the cult. Her death had created
the Jenny Task Force. Detective Burmeister was now joining cops
like Steve Otechie and prosecutors like David Schwinderman ramping up
a federal investigation that started in the wake of Dan
Jordan's killing that's still unsolved, murder on the Hunting Trip
(04:56):
in The Jenny Task for was an investigation that would
reach out across America law enforcement agencies, sharing resources and
intelligence to track this new generation of the hervill La
Baron Coult the Kingdom of God k o G. Just
(05:19):
a few days after the four o'clock murders in July,
the Jenny Task Force met up. We all got together
in Salt Lake, Salt Lake City, Utah. It made sense
to do in Salt Lake because that was kind of
the heart of all of it, the headquarters of the
Mormon Church and the spiritual home to most Mormon fundamentalists,
including the Labarns. It was also the home of Dave Swenderman,
(05:42):
the federal prosecutor in the U. S. Attorney's Office who
had been involved in the Labarren case ever since Dan
Jordan was murdered. Swendeman told the team assembled in Utah
some chilling details from his case files how this latest
generation of the Colt was carrying out vengeance Rville had
ordered before his death in a book called the Book
(06:03):
of the New Covenant, a scripture for the family, something
that dictates to them how life should be. If you
know how to read it and you have somebody in
the family helping you interpret the book, you can find
the hit list in the book who's to die, Who's
not to die, Which meant even with these latest tragedies
(06:24):
in Houston and Dallas, the cult wasn't done. There's a
hard core of these kids, they're a little bit older
that are converted really into full on believers. They know
nothing else. They were raised in this environment and our
practiced killers. They know how to assimilar disassemble firearms, their
practiced liars, their practice forgers. They're extraordinarily good at evading
(06:50):
police detection. I mean, they're killing anybody that was a
potential threat, and they were doing away with them, each other,
family and they weren't ever being held to account. Dave
set two goals for the task force. Number one, stop
the killings, Arrest and prosecute the Kog's assassin's Number two,
(07:16):
break the cycle. Find and locate as many of Hervilabarans
children as possible, get them into stable homes. To stop
the spread of the colts twisted dogma of blood atonement
passing through future generations. Dave knew that for many of
the assembled cops this case would be different than any
they had worked or likely would ever work again, in
(07:39):
its scale and its intricacy, the mix of crime and
religious doctrine. I said, I know this is complicated, but
it is complicated. It's hugely complicated lives and this hugely
complicated family that lived by crime, existing on the edge
and just about every way you can think of, but
also doing a lot of it so they could prosecute
(08:01):
these murders. David told all this to the assembled team,
including John Burmeister and the other Texas cops. These are
hardcore Houston homicide detectives who had not seen something like this,
and it really struck him. It shook them to the bone.
We then started looking at everything. Detective Burmeister and the
(08:23):
team got to work. We've studied up on what happened
in other places and what the motives to Opper and
was how they did it, and they put a lot
of thought into what they were doing with these latest
Texas killings. There was evidence to process, potential new clues
and possible witnesses. In fact, one had already come forward
(08:44):
a witness to the immediate aftermath of the murder of
Dwayne and Little Jenny, someone who was pretty sure they
had seen the assassins. As they drove away. They told
Detective Burmeister what they'd seen. There was one person in
the car other than the person that got back into it,
so there were two people president the scene and the shooter.
(09:06):
I was wearing a suit, a dark suit, and I
had a beard. That's about it. Beard, short hair, dark suit,
Just a general outline. It wasn't much, but it was
a start, and the next leads for the Jenny Task
Force weren't far behind from the team's at Novel and
(09:38):
I Heart Radio. This is deliver Us from Herbal episode twelve.
The Tide turns. Shortly after midnight on July, Detectives John
Burmeister and Dick Forbes. We're sitting in a conference room
(09:59):
at a police station in Phoenix, Arizona, and they were
feeling pretty good. The investigation into hervill Abarn's colt hadn't
had many lucky breaks since it began in the nineteen seventies,
but these two experienced lawmen couldn't dispute that they had one,
now more than one. In fact, in front of them
(10:23):
on the table were several piles of bagged evidence and
some mug shots suspects they were increasingly convinced were involved
in the four o'clock murders. Crucially, these were suspects who
were at this very moment in custody in the same
police station where they now sat, albeit for crimes unconnected
(10:46):
to the four o'clock murders. It had all begun less
than two weeks before. On the first of July, a
police officer was cruising along Black can And Road in Phoenix.
He pulled into a parking lot of a place called
the King's Inn Hotel, right off the interstate, a popular
(11:08):
spot with car thieves. They're in the lot, a seven
black Chevy Silverado pickup with Texas plates sat shining in
the Arizona sun. Something about it caught the cops attention,
and when he radioed in the license plate BINGO the
(11:29):
truck had been stolen in Texas just days before. The
cops approached. The clerk at the King's in front desk.
Had he seen any guests that stuck out him recently
long shot and a cheap motel, but the cop was
in luck. Some guests had caught the clerk's eye. The
motel operator was kind of suspicious because you've got all
(11:52):
these kids that are about the same age, But it
was just something wrong about this group of kids that
all come together. They were all well, clean cut, well
mannered in this rundown part of town that was noticeable.
The clerk said. The driver of the Chevy Silverado had
(12:13):
rented two rooms. Six people were staying with her at
the hotel. When cops raided the hotel rooms, they found
two spiral notebooks, a list of names, a chordless drill,
ignition switches, and black silicone, the tools of car thieves,
plus some other stuff, a bunch of evidence that nobody
(12:35):
knew made any difference or sense to anybody at the time.
Sensing they might have stumbled upon an international carjacking ring,
they bagged a lot. The local cops thought they were
about to make a big headline generating bust, but when
they swooped up the guests in the King's In hotel
(12:57):
and charged them, they had no idea what they'd really
just stumbled upon. Just days after the four o'clock murders,
most of the assassins caught on their way home to Mexico.
The cops might have never known all this if it
(13:17):
wasn't for the fake ideas the gang we're using. Up
until now, fake aliases had been one of the colt's
main tools in successfully avoiding detection by law enforcement. In
episode eight, Gabriella told me about how the cult created
new versions of themselves whenever they moved to a new place.
They were able to create official looking documents to match
(13:41):
these imagined new personas, mainly thanks to that cult member
called Linda Johnson. Linda was a master Forarder. Yeah, she
was good to bar certificates take her five minutes to make.
In the seventies and eighties, cops didn't have access to
nationwide linked computer systems or DNA databases, so whenever a
(14:04):
cult member was arrested, their fresh identity made it look
like a first offense. Hardest parts about track in this family.
They all these birth certificates and different names. They have
the aliases at the Kazoo, and once a cult member
had posted bail under a fake name, they had simply
skipped down before they had been linked to other lives
(14:24):
and crimes. It's what Hebrew had done following the disastrous
bank robbery back in six But in the summer of Phoenix,
the Kog's assassin's mistake had been to reuse their aliases
because the Jenny Task Force had checked all the hotels
in Texas and found some familiar names. When you go
(14:51):
into hotel, you check in with your driving a classes
member name, and then we started figuring out who was
here and used by two different names that they used,
but the hotels matching them up with the drivers that
they were using, and those same fake aliases were being
used here in Phoenix, Arizona. So once the Jenny Task
Force knew that they had their suspects, those mug shots
(15:15):
they were now sitting in front of in the Phoenix
police station, and then there was the bagged evidence in
front of them, part of that King's Inn hotel room hall.
I have the police report from that initial bust, and
it lists these items as a false beard, a false mustache,
empty shoulder holsters, tourists, thirty eight revolver speedloaders, street guides, maps,
(15:39):
a list of Texas police scanner frequencies. And then amazingly,
they found some newspapers that the kids had collected after
they had committed the murders in Texas and brought with them.
As soon as they committed the murders, they went and
bought all the newspapers and went to the hook Telling
(16:00):
Texas and read about what they've done, and then they
packed up and came to Arizona. For Detective Burnmeister, this
evidence Hall definitely brought into question some of the hyperbole
he'd heard from the other cops on this group being
sophisticated and methodical assassins. Some of the stuff that they did,
(16:22):
you know, having all that stuff in the car, it's dumb,
you know, I mean that's and keeping the suits is dumb,
and keeping the beards it's dumb. And actually they didn't
do a very good job at disposing of the weapons either.
The evidence seemed like a gold mine that could crack
the whole investigation wide open. When the cops left that
(16:44):
Phoenix conference room to go and talk to their suspects,
they must have felt like the dominoes were about to fall,
but in the coming weeks they'd crash against a familiar barrier,
the same barriers every cop looking into the herbal La
Baron Colt had faced. No one would talk, thanks to
(17:10):
the hall from the King's Inn, the beards and wigs,
and newspapers documenting the crime. They had evidence connecting the
Labarrens to the four o'clock murder, but they still didn't
know exactly what had happened that day, who did which hit,
and crucially who had killed Jenny. Everyone in custody remained
(17:32):
impenetrable a lifetime of training never to talk to cops.
At one point, the cops thought they were making headway
with Cynthia. They showed her grizzly photos of Jenny taken
at the crime scene. Cynthia was visibly shaken, but still
(17:53):
she wouldn't say a word. For Utah based investigator Steve Votechi,
these interviews were just as frustrating as the ones he'd
done with the Labaron kids following Dan Jordan's murder back
in and just like back then, the cops on the
Jenny Task Force started feeling the heat. We could get
(18:15):
intense with each other and you know, just rant and
rave or whatever, but when it came time to talk
to a suspect, it had to be cool and calm,
and it wasn't going to be possible to intimidate any
of them into confessing because they've been intimidated by experts
in their family for years, and so it could get
pretty intense. Months passed became eighty nine. What had seemed
(18:40):
like exciting new evidence that could bring the whole cult down,
well that feeling had given way to something else, a feeling.
Homicide detectives like John Burmeister knew all too well a
case going cold. All we had was just indirect evidence.
(19:00):
Even though those physical events, we couldn't tie it to
the murder, Even though we had beavers and suits and
all that. They had no idea who had them all.
But at least their suspects and custody were going nowhere.
Because while the Jenny Task Force had been failing to
make progress, the Phoenix p D had moved forward with
their car theft investigation. They didn't need the Kogs cooperation
(19:24):
to bring charges on that they had airtight evidence. In
August of more than a year after the four o'clock murders,
five members of the Kyog pled guilty to auto theft charges.
Hebrew and Doug Barlow were sentenced to ten years in prison,
(19:45):
Cynthia and Tarsa to five years, and Richard, who was
seventeen but was tried as an adult, was given three
and a half years. Those working the Jenny Task Force
were relieved. Some of the Kog leadership will be hind bars,
but they didn't have all their suspects Aaron, Natasha and Patricia,
(20:06):
for example. They were all large. On top of that,
the car theft sentences would in all likelihood be significantly
reduced for good time. Ten years could be five, five
could be just a few years, and then they'd all
be out and back in Mexico planning more murders. And
(20:29):
this went against that central aim of Operation Jenny, to
break the cycle of violence, to stop future generations from
becoming caught up in this fanatical dogma of killing in
the name of God. They wanted to pull the children
growing up in the colt away from it, the kids
(20:51):
who had yet to become killers, kids like Gabriella le Baron,
who as the eighties turned to the nineties, was far
from splitting from the Colt's ideology. In fact, she was
becoming more and more extreme. That's coming up after the break.
(21:23):
When news of the four o'clock murders reached Gabriella LeBaron
and the rest of the kog at their remote Mexican
hideout b f A, the cult members were conflicted. On
one hand, there was a muted rejoicing that God's will
had been fulfilled. Dwayne and Markina and Eddie Marston had
(21:47):
marked themselves for death by betraying God's kingdom on Earth.
They were sons of perdition and as such they had
to be blood a tone to be saved from an
eternal health. It was a form of mercy to kill them.
But Jenny, the eight year old girl, she was innocent
(22:10):
killing her cast a Paul over the camp. Then word
reached the b f A of the arrest in Phoenix,
and as the months passed it became clear that Hebrew, Doug, Richard,
and Cynthia weren't returning anytime soon. We split into two
different groups. I mean, we didn't split ideologically. Some kids
(22:32):
went to the States to work and send us money,
and then others were sent to Monterey, Mexico without Hebrew
and co stealing cars and packing weed for the Mexican mafia.
The kog needed new sources of cash badly to feed,
house and clothe the Kingdom of God, so they went legit.
(22:54):
We were getting out of the mafia trade, and we're
going to go back into selling washers and tryers. Gabriella
was just thirteen years old in n without Hebrew and
some of the others around to provide muscle and protection.
Working for the cartels had become too much of a risk.
The mafia trade became too dangerous and crazy, right, you know,
(23:15):
Like we had to get out of there, so why
don't we try something else. They left b f A
and the mafia town of Navajo and moved to Monterey,
which today is one of the wealthiest cities in Mexico,
has a reputation for being safe, orderly where you might
go if you want to become legit. But my experience
(23:37):
in Mexico is money ran dry. We had no more
money to eat, and we kind of went hungry for
a while. We were literally just on beans, nothing else,
not even soul and once in a while you can
have a tortilla, have a tritia. Gabriella and the other
older kids decided they needed to get jobs. Gabriella spook
fluent Spanish and English, so the eighteen year old cult
(24:00):
member became an English teacher. I put makeup on in
high hills and it was terrible. Also ashamed. I was
a tough person, not this one in makeup and heels. Well,
I had to do it. Other siblings in Monterrey also
started teaching, and for really the first time in their lives,
(24:21):
found they were interacting with the world outside their cult
in a meaningful way. And then they became exposed. They
found these older, wiser adults, really good hearted people who
kind of took them under their wing and just started
teaching them about the world and offering care and guidance
(24:42):
and helping them to see. And then a few years
later they were just like, Okay, we're done with this.
All of this is bullshit, So fuck the KG, all
the hunger, all the terror, all the killing, and now
they were just done with it all. Gabriella was incredulous.
(25:08):
I wasn't on board. I was not going to let
everyone off that easy. She convinced some of her siblings
to not give up on God on their father's wishes.
She reminded them that the hardships of the cult were
a test. What they needed to do was doubled down
on their worship, try harder to reach God. So that's
(25:31):
what we did, and we all went on something called strike.
This was the beginning of something Gabriella's family calls the
strike period, as in strike against the outside world. We
thought that God was cursing us for not for not
being good enough, for becoming too worldly. If you have
(25:57):
a job in the world, or if you have friends
that are outside of the cult, you mingle in any
way with anybody outside of the cold, or flirt with
boys or anything. We're the wrong kind of shoes and
makeup and start being social. All that is worldly and bad,
and God will curse you. But the thing with us
(26:19):
is that God didn't only curse us. Okay, God curse
the whole world. It's like in the Bible, one person
does something bad and they destroy the whole freaking city.
Gabriella quit her teaching job. We needed to go on
some missions. We need to do ourselves, even though all
the adults were in jail now and we need to
carry on continuing the murder spree. Basically, so we did
(26:42):
our solemn assemblies. We fasted for a week, fraid twice
a day, did two solemn assemblies a day, which like
each one is two or three hours long, so it's
like all day long your prayers. It's terrible. M This
strike was a rejection against what they deemed as corrupt
(27:06):
Western or American outside influences. The United States was definitely
the big evil country. We all decided to know that
all that is evil, all these things that everyone else
is doing their normal lives of people are living, all
that is bad. Every part of it is bad, So
don't even think of it. You can't talk to anybody,
you can't have friends. And there was a point that
we couldn't even study outside world books, so you know,
(27:29):
kind of like think of some extremist community saying all
everything Western is bad, right, so burn it all. Gabriella
and a few of her siblings rejected anything that represented
the corruption of the world. One day, Gabriella and these
siblings gathered up as many of these corrupting possessions as
they could find, and dumped them in a big heap
(27:51):
in the backyard, douse them in gas, and then we
burned it all in the big bonfire. Literally birth it
all in a big bonfire. Literally burnt it all in
the big weldfire, all of our shoes, anything that was worldly.
The whole idea here was to somehow like purify yourselves,
get back in the graces of God. Yes, basically, and
(28:14):
God needed to bless us, send us some sort of
answer because we didn't have any answers. There was no
communication from heaven. So we did the very best we could.
We got rid of everything that was worldly. They were
offering a sacrifice to God in the form of fire,
(28:36):
a burnt offering similar to those mentioned in the Bible.
Maybe by showing God they wanted nothing to do with
the world at large, he would give them some kind
of sign. No answer came right, and no answer ever came.
I think of teenage Gabriella staring into the flames of
(28:59):
that Monterey fire, trying to make sense of the deafening
silence from her God, the God she had obeyed so
faithfully since birth, the God she and her family had
given so much for, had taken so much from others
for a God who still would not even acknowledge their existence.
(29:22):
And I wonder, did it feel similar to the way
I felt when I prayed, back when I believed, before
my doubts had risen to the surface. Faced with such confusion,
you reach down within yourself resolve, you'll try harder to
(29:43):
find a way to reach God. But maybe now it's
me who's reaching to try to compare my own experiences
with the extremities that Gabriella and her siblings had known
since birth. Shortly after Gabriella quit her teaching job and
(30:10):
went on strike against the outside world, she was presented
with more earthly practical concerns. We ran out of money,
we ran out of food, We got kicked out of
the house, and then we went to live in a
shed on some pig ranch farm. So we lived in
this shed and there were these big giant rats everywhere
(30:30):
and roaches, and since we didn't have money or food,
we had to beg for food. I had to go
to the Medicago like the open market and take whatever
rotten food that people were getting rid of, and being
that home and cut off the wrong parts. No me,
of course, just fruits and vegetables, and that's what we
(30:51):
would eat. Living among the rats and ruin, Gabriella must
have felt like the Kingdom of God had hit rock bottom,
but it would turn out that there was further to go.
It was now and across the border. The members of
(31:12):
the Jenny Task Force were unaware of the cracks now
splitting the kog in Mexico. Dave Schwinderman, the federal prosecutor
in the U. S. Attorney's Office in Utah, had made
little progress in either the four o'clock murders or the
Sandpete County killing of Dan Jordan's, but there had been
(31:33):
some success in the second goal of the Jenny Task Force,
finding stable homes for children born in the colt In.
Cops had raided appliance repair shops the kog Ran in
Atlanta and Chicago. While the adults they arrested awaited trial
on various charges, the kids working in the repair shops
(31:53):
were put in foster care. We got material witness warrants
for all of the kids, and then we brought them
all to Salt Lake and then put them before the
grand jury and did our interviews with them, spent lots
of time with them. But as usual. These La Baron
kids wouldn't talk. When they did talk, they told us lives,
(32:13):
and we knew their lives, so it wasn't worth pursuing it.
And the hopes that getting them in stable homes would
break the spell of Hervil LeBaron's dogma didn't last long.
No sooner had the children of the Koji even put
in foster homes, that the Colts leadership tracked them down
and helped them flee and then just disappear, Go back,
(32:37):
go back to Mexico. Dave Schwindermann was facing the most
difficult case of his career. These are encapsulated communities, difficult
to penetrate to investigate for crime, even more difficult to
penetrate for any kind of social service or whatever else
(32:57):
they might need. They kept to themselves and kept things
very tightly controlled, and things for the Jenny Task Force
got worse because in the early nine nineties, the KOG
members convicted in the Phoenix auto theft case started to
be released from prison. Richard LeBaron got out, and then
(33:17):
Cynthia LeBaron got out, Just as the cops had feared,
the COLT was regrouping. So how much of your time
and attention during that period was still focused on this case,
And did you feel like the trail had kind of
gone cold or what were you and Dick and others
doing keeping the records together, keeping people from getting rid
(33:41):
of cleaning files out, actually having to bring files into
my office and just stack them in my office so
that people didn't go through and perjam talked a lot.
We made sure that we kept in Dutch all the time,
looking for anybody popping up because we felt there might
(34:01):
be more murders. At some point, I got the family
recognized as a domestic terrorist case, which it was, but
it was hard to convince people at the time that
this was domestic terrorism, even though they ain't killed thirty people.
And we just kept it going, kind of not really
expecting or looking for a break. And all of a sudden,
(34:24):
Dick Forbes gets this phone call from Cynthia LeBaron. It
was the Jenny Task Force received a jolt from the blue.
Dick calls me on the phone and says, Hey, I
just got this phone call. I know it's from Cynthia Bricu.
(34:45):
I recognized her voice. She says that she and Jessica,
her sister. I want to turn themselves in. They're willing
to tell us everything, and they want some protection. Cynthia
was calling Dick from Monterey, Mexico. Cynthia told Dick things
had happened in Mexico that made her and her sister
(35:06):
fear for their lives. After leaving prison, Cynthia had done
exactly what police feared she would do. She'd headed straight
to Mexico to rejoin the Kog, but something had changed
for Cynthia. Upon returning. She had found a boyfriend outside
the Colt, which was against the rules and infraction punishable
(35:30):
by death, and that's why Cynthia said she was calling
Dick Forbes. She wanted out. She was ready to tell
all in exchange for protection. But the cops had mixed feelings.
On one hand, this was the sort of break they've
been chasing for decades. On the other, considering the modus
(35:52):
operandi of the Colt, they couldn't help but worry that
this was a trap, because what they say to him
on the phone is we only trust you, and Schwindman
only you too. We'll meet you in Texas. It was
always in the back of your mind, you know, is
(36:12):
this a lure? He had to wonder. After all, this
is what the cult of Herbal le Baron were known for,
luring their prey out into the open. It had happened
to Joe le Baron lured into that house in en Sonata,
the villagers lured out of their homes by fire and
Los Melinos. There was that botched attempt to kill Verlin
(36:35):
at Rulin al Red's funeral. It had even been the
way Dwayne and Jenny Channath had been lured out to
Rena Street a call about a washing machine that needed
picking up. When this call came in there, that's what
we thought our turn. They're working to Laura on us.
Do we actually take them at their word that they
(36:56):
want to talk to us? Were we're smart enough to
avoid being killed? But after such little progress, how could
the cops turn down this opportunity to get inside the
workings of the colt? How do we do this? Do
we follow up? That's coming up? After the break in
(37:23):
their offer to the Jenny Task Force, Cynthia and Jessica
le Baron had been clear they were willing to spill
all the cult secrets and they wanted protection in return.
But crucially, they were only prepared to deal with two
members of the Jenny Task Force. They made this demand
(37:44):
during that first phone call to Dick Forbes, who passed
on the message to David schwindermann, the lead prosecutor on
the Jenny Task Force. They're willing to tell us everything
and they want some protection. But here's the catch, it's
only you and me. They'll trust Dick Forbes because he
knew the case like no other, and David Schwinderman because
(38:07):
as the federal prosecutor he had the most reach for
accessing things like the Witness Protection Program. But even though
the Jenny Task Force had now agreed to risk meeting
Cynthia and Jessica, when it came to this demand for
it to just be Dick and Dave at the meat,
Swinderman wasn't going to take the risk. A said, well, look,
(38:29):
I'm willing to go with you. We'll go down there.
We'll do this, but honestly, Dick, you gotta get ahold
of Burmeister and you guys that are working it from
the Eastern homicide side that were part of this group,
and we gotta go down there together. Having met John Burmeister,
I can understand Swinderman's instinct to bring him along too.
(38:51):
Definitely the kind of guy you want to bring to
a fight, and Burmeister was ready. Turns out he's been
waiting for something like this to go down. I had
a feeling that sooner or later they'd go overboard with
their family problems and that somebody would come forward because
they were either scared, or they're just tired, or a
little that way. The plan was to meet Cynthia and
(39:16):
Jessica in Laredo, Texas. That's sitting on the Mexican border
where Herville had crossed into the US in handcuffs years before.
I get the FBI involved, I get Customs involved so
that they could come across the bridge at Nuevo Laredo
without being interfered with. And we're to meet them at
a certain time on a certain day. The location for
(39:40):
the meeting was agreed the Howard Johnson a motel downtown.
A few days later, it was on. We fly to Laredo, Texas,
we go to the Holiday Inn and we set up
and then there's this gonna tell where we're supposed to
(40:01):
meet these kids at seven o'clock at night. We've got
police back up as well, because we weren't sure how
this was going to turn out. So they kind of
clear out one board of the motel and we go
around and the cops go to the door and knock
on the door, the detectives, and there's no answer, you know,
(40:21):
nobody comes to the door. And so immediately they grabbed
me by the back of the shirt and pull me
around the corner to get me out of the line
of fire. And they all take positions in the shrubs
and everything else with aim on this door because they
figure it's a lower you know, we've been sucked into
this trap. And while this is all going on at
(40:44):
the Howard Johnson's, across the parking lot, there's this group
that starts to gather at the windows. And in that
group that's gathered at the windows as Cynthia and Jessica
and their two Mexican boyfriends watching this whole thing developed
and on the parking lot. In other words, it hadn't
(41:05):
been a trap. There had been some kind of mix up,
and once the confusion had lifted in two separate hotel rooms,
Forbes and Swinderman began their first of a series of
interrogations of Cynthia and Jessica LeBaron and we go all night.
This interview is just Stone called chilling. Over the course
(41:26):
of that night and in further interviews over the coming days,
Swinderman and the others on the Jenny task Force listened
in astonishment as the veil of secrecy that had long
shrouded the Kingdom of God began to lift. And no
sooner had they started sharing information with the cops than
more colt informants began to surface. That normally happens once
(41:48):
somebody turns it, it's not a domino effect before all
they all do. And basically that's what happened. That's what
happened with the other kids. You know. Danny was the
next one that came across. Danny le Baron, a kid
just sixteen years old at the time, he decided he'd
had enough of the Kog. He called and said that
(42:11):
he was concerned about himself and Richard. Richard le Baron
was seventeen years old at the time of the four
o'clock murders. Gabriella described him as fun and laid back,
turned everything into a joke, well maybe not everything, because
word was now out in the Kog that Richard and
(42:33):
Danny were next in line for blood Atonement and all
the other family members loved him. Richard was the hero,
so he was a big influence on the rest of him.
When Richard eventually sat down with Burmeister, he was ready.
Richard was straightforward as a witness. I didn't tell you
(42:56):
anything he was that's gonna get him. I don't want
nothing else to do with this. I'm gonna be a
son of perdition and I have a different lifestyle. Richard
didn't hold back any details. He was a straight shooter.
You can tell that from the get go. This guy
(43:17):
is not gonna lie to him, and he's gonna tell
me everything that he knows about everything. Richard's confession was
perhaps the most significant so far. During the questioning, he
told me what happened, He said to you, I killed
I'm the one who killed Dwayne and Jenny. Yeah. I
got pretty emotional that he he broke down and cried.
(43:44):
I had to consider that he was a kid when
it happened, you know, and it's not like he was
full grown man. But it did bother me that I
was talking the guy to killed a little girl. How
did he feel about killing an eight year old? What
did he tell you? He had to do it. He
was ordered to absolutely he ever morse for it. Oh absolutely,
(44:10):
I'm sure he still does. By the time the cops
were done, they had a timeline for the four o'clock murders.
Beat by beat. Doug Barlow had killed Eddie Marston, shooting
him as he went to collect the washer dryer. Hebrew
Le Baron had killed marching Off while he sat in
(44:33):
his office chair, with Cynthia and Natasha waiting in the
car outside. And Richard had shot and killed Dwayne and
Jenny while Patricia sat waiting in the Chevy Silverado that
had come barreling down Rena Street, trapping the two victims.
Jenny was only killed because she was old enough to
be a witness. In fact, Patricia had to send Richard
(44:55):
back up the driveway to kill her. Patricia it told Richard,
she's old enough, she can be a witness. You gotta
go kill her. But the cops weren't done with the
confession they had so far from Cynthia, Danny, Jessica, and Richard. Next,
(45:17):
they moved on to members of the Colt who were
still incarcerated, the ones still serving time for those grand
theft auto charges in Arizona, Dave Schwindermann and John Burmeister
went to see Patricia in jail and Phoenix. It was
a slow process with her. I talked to her for
(45:38):
hours and hours and hours, and I told her upfront
that you tell me whatever you want to. I'm not
going to pressure you to talk about in Houston case
unless you decide that you want to do it. I
could tell that she was pressing me for information just
as much as I was trying to press her for information,
because she didn't know what was going on with the
rest of the family. She'd been in isolation ever since
(45:59):
the inditements came out. And we got to the point
we said, well, you know, Richard told us everything, told
us what you did, what he did, what everybody did.
He said, I've got his confession. And if I really
she said, well you got Richard, I'm pretty sure you
know everything that happened. I might a slow go Richard trout.
(46:22):
Richard's route meant full disclosure. And this wasn't just the
corroboration of the testimony of her siblings. She told them
things that were even more shocking. And I want to
warn you here that this next piece of tape is
about as distressing as a story as I've heard, it's
one minute forty seconds long, so skip ahead if you
(46:45):
don't want to hear it. Patricia had a baby, a
little boy, as I recalled by Hebrew, her brother, and
the baby was sickly and was crying all the time.
Hebrew told her to do something about the child. You know,
child is screaming too much. Just do something with the child.
(47:05):
And Patricia tried, but she couldn't make the child go quiet.
She said, we need to take the child to a doctor.
Of course, taking somebody to the doctor would have given
away a lot of what the family was about. They
needed to keep to themselves and keep by themselves, so
going to a hospital was not something that anybody really
wanted to do. But Patricia eventually prevailed on Hebrew to
(47:28):
take the child to a hospital. So Hebrew loaded Patricia, himself,
and the baby into the pickup truck and they began
to drive towards their man ceo. Patricia's holding the baby
and the baby's crying. They get part way to aara
massio in the middle of nowhere, Hebrew pulls the truck over.
He said, give me the baby. She says no. Hebrew
(47:51):
said give me the baby and get out of the truck.
I had no choice. I gave him the baby. The
baby's crying. I walk away from the truck and the
baby stops crying. I go back to the truck and
the baby's blue, and he says here. We then drive
into air massile. We drive through the entrance to the
emergency room at the hospital arms CEO and he tells
me to throw the baby out, so I do, and
(48:13):
they drive off. It was the only time I saw
her show any emotion, and with this tiny tear that
trickled down her face. At the end of that conversation,
we had to get out of the room. After years
(48:33):
of desperately trying to get the colt to talk, they
had finally heard enough. I can only imagine how it
must have felt to hear all these confessions. Dave schwinderman
Like myself, being someone raised as a Mormon, You're hearing
this bizarre tail that is so close to what you
(48:56):
were raised and believed in everything else, but it's flipped
on its head. It's a one eight. I mean to
commit these murders. That's their mission. And of course Schwindermann
was hearing information on cases he'd been working on for years,
(49:17):
not just the four o'clock murders, like the open investigation
into Dan Jordan's murder. Patricia described for us that Patricia
and Hebrew drove up from Mexico and we're told where
the campsite was by the kids. They knew when they
(49:37):
were going to be there. They knew where the campsite was,
and according to Patricia, she and Hebrew waited down on
the road until they could see what was going on.
And then Hebrew went up into the place where Dan
was doing his stuff and shot him. And you remember
(49:58):
Leo Evanick, that I who killed Gabriella's big brother, Arthur Leo,
who had tried to still the kids with the Rio's brothers. Well,
it turns out after he was driven off, Hebrew shot
him ten times, shot him running away. Patricia drove, but
Hebrew shot him. They took his body, put it in
(50:21):
Leo's vehicle and drove the vehicle off and buried Leo somewhere.
But despite all these confessions, all these new deaths and
leads from the cult members who are now talking, the
decision was made that, apart from the four o'clock murders,
none of these crimes would move forward to trial. The
(50:45):
cops were going all in on a conviction for the
Texas shootings. He went with the Texas murders because we
had better evidence. We actually had physical evidence that we
could use, We had a story that's stuck together, and
we had people that were in the family that were
welling to testify, and so the Jenny Task Force was
finally ready to move forward with charges, but Richard le
(51:07):
Baron was singled out. We made a plea arrangement with
Richard and used him as a witness in the trial. Cynthia, Jessica,
and Danny were now in the Federal witness Protection program,
providing testimonies that would keep them out of prison two.
But for the rest of the Kog suspects, everybody got
(51:28):
died in Patricia was already in jail, Eber was already
in jail, Barlow was already in jail, and Phoenix they
weren't much of a problem. That left Tarson Aaron the
last two members of the Kog leadership still at large.
But surely it was just a matter of time before
those two loose ends would be tied up and finally
(51:53):
the killing would end once and for all. That was
just around the next corner, right right. I remember just
having this really strong conclusion in my head. I was like, look, God,
if you want me to go and build the chi,
(52:15):
I'm going to do it. I'm ready. I was so ready.
Just tell me and I'll go. That's coming up on
the final episode of deliver Us from Herbal. Deliver Us
(52:44):
from Herville is hosted by me jesse Hyde and written
and reported by me Leona Hamad and David Waters. Production
from Leona Hamid and David Waters. Sean Glenn and maxwe'brien
are executive producers. Lena Chang and Megan Oyinka are researchers.
Marianna Gongora is our field producer. Fact checking by Donya
(53:08):
Suleman and Sona Avakian. Production management from Sharie Houston, Frankie
Taylor and Charlotte Wolfe. Austin Mitchell is our creative director
of production. Michae Lee Row is our managing editor. Gavin
Haynes is our head of development. Willard Foxton is our
creative director of development. Sound design, mixing and scoring by
(53:30):
Nicholas Alexander and Daniel Kempson. Music supervision by Nicholas Alexander
and David Waters. Our music is composed by Julian Lynch.
Special thanks to Scott Anderson, Scott Carrier del van Ada,
Pippa Smith, Saskia Edwards, Matt O'Mara, Katrina Norvelle and beth
Ann Macaluso or In Rosenbaum, Shelby Shankman and all the
(53:54):
team at U t A. For more from novel, visit
novel dot audio
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The Bobby Bones Show
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