June 13, 2022 • 63 mins
Does life imitate art or art imitate life?
Joy gets emotional watching Haley fight to fix things with Nathan. Find out why this resonates with her so intensely and hear all the character parallels the Queens see in their own lives.
And, once again, OTH predicts the future as Peyton starts her podcast!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
First of all, you don't know me. Were all about
that high school drama, Girl drama, girl, all about them
high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in
our comic girl Cheering for the drama Queens girl fashion,
but you'll tough, girl, you can sit with us. Girl Drama,
Queens Drama, Queen's DRAWNA Queen's Drama Drawn MC Queen's Drama Queens.
(00:24):
Welcome to the show, everyone, Welcome to show. People. We
didn't even my gosh, what a great episode, just another
episode love. We all may or may not have been
in tears at the end, and by that I mean
we definitely work. I literally need to take a break
to go cry. But I feel like, um, do you
feel like acidy in your chest? Because it's just like
(00:49):
so real. Can it just be better already? You know,
like you're watching Hayley struggle episode after episode after episode.
You just wanted to be better already, and we are
not getting that instat gratification and it feels like heartbert.
I'm so glad though, because that's real life and you
(01:13):
know it. I will say, this episode title feels like
it's Hayley's journey, y'all. It's season three, episode three, and
the title is first day on the brand new planet,
and she is certainly in a whole new world. This
aired originally October ninete two thousand five. And my god,
we've said it once before, We'll say it a hundred
(01:34):
times more. We love season three. Mm hmm. This was
really hard for me to watch. I have been I
have been in this scenario in my real life, and
you know, I mean not like exactly obviously, but like,
but there are enough similarities in different relationships that I've
(01:56):
had where it's like I've just I've been in that
feeling of like can we fix it? Can I can
I get fixed? Can can I do anything to fix this?
And constantly feel well, first of all, constantly choosing men
where I'm always feel like I'm the one who's been
because I'm just don't have a great picker in the
(02:16):
first place. So like my my track record, you have
a sympathetic picker, is what you have? That's true, um,
But constantly being in the position where I feel like
I'm trying to fix things? How do I fix it?
How do I fix it? I would fix it? I'm
you know, I'm the one that I'm the one that um,
(02:37):
even though most of the time it probably hasn't been me,
but I put myself Yeah, I mean that's not true.
What ultimately, what it means for me while I'm watching
this episode is that I have a muscle memory of
feeling those feelings. Whether they came from a real place
or whether they came from a place of being convinced
of something that wasn't true, doesn't really matter. The feelings
(02:59):
existed in my audie, and I'm having to relive them
again as I empathize with Nathan and Haley, And of
course I physically actually was there, and so I have
muscle memory from that's doing those scenes and from real life,
and I'm like, I'm actually getting pretty emotional. It's it's
kind of hard to watch. It's hard to watch. Maybe
did you know though, like in real life relationships? Um,
(03:21):
obviously we shot this stuff when we were really young.
Did you see the connection between like fact and fiction
while you were in it or you've only just seen
it now? I don't know. I think back then it
was just a storyline and I had been, you know,
like the boy I loved in high school and loved
(03:43):
me back, and so I think I probably drew on that,
but you're so young and the future is still so
full of hope and all the possibilities that are coming
down the line. You don't you know, I didn't connect
it to then, but now being in my life where
I am and you know, still not having found the
relationship that I dream of and maybe never will and
maybe that's okay, and maybe it's okay to be single,
and like, there's just so many layers to where my
(04:05):
life is now, but it still taps into a longing
and I hope that I have. But you know, the
older you get, that like, the harder it seems to
be to find. But when you're young, it's like I am,
but you know what I want to say, As as
you know, you've got two of your best friends on
this call who figured out who their people are. But
like Hillary, you and we've talked about this a lot.
(04:26):
You have always been so discerning and you were on
your very early like Joy, you and I have been
figuring things out. We've process a little more slowly and
and and so to be. You know, we've looked at
you for twelve years and like seeing your relationship the
two of us and for me two and a half
(04:48):
years in what I can say and what was? So,
what's something I'll be, Oh, man, I like something, I
will belive you cry do. Something I will always cherish
in my friendships with both of you is that we've
held mirrors up for each other for a very long time.
(05:09):
And both of you have said versions to me of
what you just said, Hilary, which is it's about discernment
and sympathy. And I know I said this on a
podcast here a long time ago when my dad was like,
no more sick puppies, about the men I was picking
to like fix and help and save and mother and
all of this, that's not your responsibility as a partner.
(05:33):
When when I and it wasn't easy. But when I said, okay,
if I have often picked through a lens of response
to serve or sympathy, how can I understand that? And
it was well, I'm a romantic, I'm a storyteller. I
believe in people. I'm an optimist, so I often fall
(05:56):
in love with potential. It is not as a partner
my job or your job to help another person realize
their potential. You can support someone in realizing their potential,
you can't make them do it, and when I shifted
the place that I pick from, or that I was
willing to see potential from, to being not sympathetic but inspired.
(06:22):
M M. I went oh oh. And it's not lost
on me nor any of my friends that the person
I went oh about I've known for ten years. You
already were friends with him, and everybody was like, welcome
to your own party, idiot, And I was like, well, cool,
(06:42):
I'm glad I'm here. So I say that only because like,
I hate that the world has made us think that
as we get older, we're like stuck in our ways,
or that it gets harder to find your person. I
just think you get smarter and you know yourself better,
and you have the capability to shift the place you
(07:06):
choose from in a way now as this joy today
that you sure she didn't have five years ago, let
alone ten years ago. So the woman, I mean, even
even what we've had the good fortune of you know,
we do the podcast, but we have a lot of
time together on these zooms. Guys you all at home
don't get to hear, and I'm not sorry, like we
(07:28):
get to what we get to watch, like what I've
witnessed you do in the last year is so like
earth shaking. Remember the first podcast and Joy was like,
I don't want to do it. I'm uncomfortable now and
you're like Queen of the Segways and killing the intros,
(07:49):
like you're killing you killing it. You have to be
a sympathetic with yourself as you are with the people
that you have dated. Um, and that's really hard for
oldest and only kids to do, to say like, no,
get out of my bedroom. This is my room, you
know what I mean, Like you have to take on
(08:12):
that oldest kid energy. And even though you guys don't
have like, you know, typical younger siblings, you're the oldest
kid in your family and that's what you got to
lean into. The these are the rules, these are the boundaries.
You're not the only thing because only kids are like
I've got to do all the things. I've got to
take care of everyone because I'm the only one, whereas
(08:35):
oldest all falls on me and it's like no oldest kids.
It's a it's a very slight shift. But I want
you to like lean into your oldest kid energy. That's
just like you guys are being assholes right now. Stop
stop stop yeahah, I just like, I'm excited for this
joy to find her person because if you had, if
(08:58):
you had settled for you know, if you would yeah,
like you, you just wouldn't be happy. And so I
believe in you. And like we learn our lessons when
(09:19):
we learn them, we can't like we didn't all find
our Jeffrey twelve years ago. But like ya, this training,
come on, it's a it's a it's a I don't know.
It's really hard to hear from your friends who have
(09:39):
kids about how to have a baby. It's hard to
hear from your friends who have like a kick ass
career how to just wait your turn. It's hard to
hear from your married friends how to find a relationship.
That's really hard to hear from the person who has
what you want. It's a great point. I can say
that you know something that's been a really it's been
really great for me in this in this journey of
(10:01):
being single, especially over the last ten years. I mean
I've dated him off, but um, the I was always
really boy crazy when I was a kid, always looking
for validation in that specific zone, which probably certainly led
me into relationships that I shouldn't have been in in
the first place or you know, because I just was
so desperate for approval UM and and being now in
(10:23):
this place where I've I've raised a child on my own,
probably most very very likely with undiagnosed a d h
D myself not her UM, you know, which also is
if you have it, you know how shocking that is
to be able to like raise a polite, kind human
(10:44):
spectacular she's you know, with a constant mind that just
doesn't stop and can't be still and kid, you know,
I mean that's that's there's a lot that's really hard
about that UM. And it's the the idea of the
romantic relationship, the perfect romantic relationship has really fallen off
the pedestal. It's really come down, come crashing down in
(11:06):
a lot of ways. And it wasn't always easy, but
the way that it came down and now I feel
so I love my life. I'm so content. I love
I love being single, I love my freedom, I love UM.
And yes there are days when it's hard and feels lonely,
and yeah that's hard sometimes, but ultimately I've I've become
(11:27):
so comfortable with myself and and I love my life
and I love who I am. That my bar has
become much higher and my you know, and so like,
in order to come into this life, a man's really
got to he's I don't it's gonna feel like a miracle,
(11:49):
I mean, which is why sometimes it feels sad because
I'm like, that guy's never been out there. There's no
way anybody's coming into this space. But it's okay, you know, Look,
not everybody's meant to be paired off with someone. And
I'm actually okay with that too, but you know, I
say that, but then I'm like weeping at the end
of this episode, Like, but it's because Joy, it was
that little tiny thing of putting his hand on her back.
(12:15):
It because what you want is a shorthand. That's the
part of intimacy that's so exciting. It's not the sex.
It's not like going on trips, and it's the shorthand
where there is one other person in the space that
knows exactly what to do or exactly what to say,
or exactly just how to be. And that shorthand, I
(12:37):
think is what is so attractive about Nathan and Haley.
But it's also like kind of a weird thing to
explain on a dating mapp do you know what I mean.
It's like, how do I say I'm looking for someone
that can just read my mind? You know? And that
sounds like a total bitch, But that's what you're looking for.
I want the person who can make eye contact with
(12:58):
me across the party. And we'll both giggle because we're
being a little rude. But it's cute, Like, is that
that's what you say on your profile? I don't know,
it's hilarious. Let's do that thing, I know. But Nathan
and Haley, like, this is tough. It's tough to watch
her um trying and trying and trying and doing what
can I do? How do I How do I make
you love me? How do I make you love me?
(13:20):
And then have him say we're getting a divorce, but
maybe something will happen in the next year. Then he
shows up and then he puts his hand on her back.
It's like there's so many mixed messages, there's so many
emotional it's an emotional roller coaster. It's it's really really,
really tough. Well, I'm also realizing as we're talking about
this moment we find ourselves in and you know, the
(13:42):
things that you're processing and what what this episode in particular,
especially after episode two kind of triggered in and how
Haley is trying to undo a thing she did. You
also are like, oh, if I got in trouble for
things I didn't do as a gas lighting, all those
things mix up in our bodies. But I would also imagine,
(14:06):
like it's got to be Look, we all feel the
pressure of the love story of the fairy tale ending,
right all all people do we make for a living? Yes,
like we are part of the problem. But it must
make It must be crazy making to have been part
(14:27):
of one of the iconic love story couples that last
the entire sing the old relationship that last like the
entire series. Yeah, Like, good god, what a lot of
pressure for you for young actress Joy figuring out her life,
(14:48):
to constantly have her life be held up against the
fictional fairy tale of Nathan and Haley. Like, that's a
lot of pressure. Yeah, that's true. I didn't think about that.
I've never thought about it until this moment. Do you
(15:10):
guys think because this job was such a big chunk
of our formative years, do you think it changed like
who we dated? Like I know for a fact because
Peyton cried so much. I tried so hard to be
so fun outside of work and like party girl outside
of work, and I turned my house into a frat house,
(15:30):
and so I just needed to date people who let
me do that. You know. That definitely factored into my
dating choices because I was like, I've got to be
the most fun ever. And then the second I escaped,
I was like, I need to find someone that would
kick someone's ask for me, and like that was yeah,
(15:51):
I really it's crazy how your job can affect these
like personal choices. Of course it does, and like I
know for sure there's there was kind of like a
trifecta of things at work. First of all, we were
isolated in a town where all of the people around
us were either eighteen or sixty five, Like there was
(16:15):
no one kind of young and single in our real
age range around and so that made it weird. Then
we were on TV, which made it weirder and at
least for me, like Hillary, when you're like, oh, I
had to combat Peyton, I had to be the most
fun person in the room. For me, going through betrayal
of my trust and gas lighting in my earlier years,
(16:39):
I became the person especially as I was playing Brooke
who could never trust anybody, who always got lied to,
and I had been lied to. I became a person
who would not date someone I didn't know. I had to, Like,
I would go on dates whatever, but I'd always get
spooked at the spread flag. And every couple of years
(17:02):
I'd get in a relationship with someone I'd observed for
years and seeing how they treated other people, other women.
Like even even one of the formative relationships in my twenties,
we were together for three years, but we had dated
off and on years before, and then we were friends
and then we started dating again. I always had to
(17:25):
so we met through like romantic introduction, but I I
could not really be in a relationship without vetting somebody
because my trust saying didn't exist. I'm still that why
it's so hard to find a relationship, because I'm like,
you know, I'm looking at the pool of my friends
and I'm like, well, either I know you too well
in no way um, or it's somebody that's just it's
(17:51):
like I don't know, it's just not in my it's
not there, like i've I've and so to build a
new build all that newness, like let's wait, let's know
each other for like two or three years before I'm
willing to actually want to date with you. You ready
to be my friend? Like that's what I want to be.
I'm just gonna make a bunch of friends and break
(18:13):
through the friend zone. I'll marry you. Did everybody friend
zone did friends? No one would date me. I had
crushes on like everybody on our show, and everyone was like, oh,
you're like a dude. And so when I met Jeff
and he was like, do you want to have a baby?
I was like, yes, sir, and then I was pregnant
(18:34):
a month later. So that's all just to say, there's
a different plan for everyone. Um, and you know that,
like tracks in the narrative of our show, maybe that's
why our show lands with people, because you do have
high school sweethearts, and then you do have like Karen
and Dan, who are an example of like, don't be
(18:56):
with your high school sweetheart. That's a terrible idea. You know.
We've got all these levels of comfort and all these
different pockets that people can find themselves in, and so
it's it is weird to go back and watch this
for the first time as an adult and see parts
of ourselves and are like are adult decision making processes
(19:20):
in these characters. I'm seeing for the first time why
Haley and Nathan resonates with adults so much too, and
not just kids, because adults I as an adult, I'm
looking at this going, oh, my gosh, this is what
an audience must have felt. They have been there. Women,
people have been in a position in relationships where they
do something imperfectly, it affects the other person in the
(19:42):
relationship in a negative way, and then they cannot find
a way to meet back together. And it's just that
struggle of how do we find each other again? That's
a basic issue in so many relationships. I get it,
like I see the pain now well. And figuring out,
you know, figuring out how to diffuse a bomb together
(20:04):
requires so much willingness to show up and be vulnerable.
It requires learning skills like it is impossible to go
through a life in a relationship and not get your
heartbroken a couple of times. That's true in friendships, that's
true in marriages, And it's like even in the same
relationship multiple yes, of course, and and you know, to
(20:30):
to learn how to communicate, I mean, my god, even
to go through something you know with your person, with
your best friend, and then you're like, how did how
did this happen? I'm so upset? And your person looks
at you and goes, wait, what do you mean? And
you go, do you even know me? You know? And
you're sitting here having this realization and you go, oh,
(20:53):
even the person who knows me the best can't know
my every thought. It is a constant coming together to communicate.
I don't know, it's it's crazy to me that we
are all able to do this, to be in relationship.
I mean, we've been friends for twenty years. You guys like,
what does that even mean? We've all had to talk about.
(21:14):
But that's what you do when you love people, And
so I do think you're right. Joy. I think it's
why Nathan and Haley resonate with people at every kind
of age. And what I find fascinating is the ways
we bring our own personal stuff to the story. Like
you're going, he's giving her all these mixed messages. It's
making you think of something from your life, and I'm
(21:36):
and I'm watching the show going. I really love that
even though he's willing to be honest and vulnerable to
the point that it might hurt her. He's not keeping
anything from her, but when she's in a moment of struggle,
he'll still show up. He'll still be there for her.
And and you're like what, And I'm like, oh, he's
just being a real gentleman. And I was like, I
(21:57):
was like, you, look at us. We're all different humans.
We all I don't much easier to stop loving someone
if they're an asshole, if he's just a jerk, it
just goes cold. Then you can stop loving that person eventually.
But if they stay in your life and they keep
showing up and being nice and gracious and gentle, and
they're like, yeah, like I don't love you, I don't
(22:18):
like be with you, but I'll definitely still be your friends.
Like off, do you know what I think? I think
I smell a country song joy. I think it's being
described here is your next album, So it's happening. It's happening.
I would like to be your friend, now go away.
(22:42):
I don't want to be your friend. Is the song
I need you to write next. I love this. Um. Yeah,
you know our show certainly hits pressure points, uh, And
I think there's stuff for all of us that just
like kind of it's too close for home and close
(23:02):
to her um, and I hate that this is you
know what that triggery for you. Joy, It's okay in
it what feels good? Uh well, lots of I loved
this episode. I mean I loved so much about this episode.
It felt like because you're one kind of an episode,
(23:23):
thank you. I loved Haley kind of taking it all
in stride and just keep in showing up and like
I'm going to figure it out. It's gonna be okay.
She's not MOPy and pouty, which I was glad that
they let me run with that choice, that she didn't
end up just being like a sad sack that it
was like, okay, yeah, well everybody hates me, all right,
you know, I just kind of moving on with it.
(23:44):
But I liked that. But and I loved the predictions.
It was really nice to see the brick coming out
of the wall and Lucas and really doing their protection
and I love that. And we had an exciting moment
with Peyton at the end um starting her podcast. Can
(24:04):
we talk about that? Please? Can we move off of
my my Bleeding Heart and on to well listen Peyton
was just setting the table so that we could talk
about your bleeding heart. That's right there. We go like,
I don't know how we aware you guys were, we're
even of this whole like podcast idea. But I had
(24:24):
to go in when we normally do our a d
R additional dialogue recording. Um, I would have to go
in for extra time and record podcasts. They're out there
on the internet. It's like I didn't know they rose
these huge scripts and I would have to read these
scripts like I was just like talking off the cuff.
(24:48):
Um that they didn't pay you. They sure didn't pay
me anything extra, so uh acceptable? Is it punking? I
mean the website was punking disorderly. I don't know if
that's what the podcasts were under, but yeah, I would
have to go record these things, and I was so confused.
I was like, who's just gonna listen to a person
(25:09):
talking like that's weird? Um? But I had grown up
listening to radio shows like NPR every Sunday night at
eight pm would do Lama Abner and Guns Smoke and
The Baby Shook Show. And you know, Suspense was my
(25:29):
favorite because it was this like you know, thriller and
they would scare you with the sounds and things, and
so I remember like understanding the value of audio, but
a teenager talking about our feelings felt like what Yeah, yeah,
that's funny. How did what did they do with it?
(25:49):
Did it? Did they? It went on the internet. They
created the real website punkin Disorderly or whatever it is,
and posted it was so they could blur the line
between fact and fick shin. So they would roll it
out like when our episodes would roll out? And did
were there a lot of listeners? Is there like a
record of those episodes? And and what I mean? Don't
(26:12):
you think did it spin into anything? When did it stop?
I have so many questions. Yeah, this whereas what we
were talking about earlier sounded like a country song. Um,
this seems like a great opportunity for fans to help us,
because I was also going to say, you know who,
we could probably ask Since Warner Brothers is now run
(26:32):
by women, we could probably call up some of the
executives over there and be like, hey, we're one of
your pillar properties, right, do you have any of those
data laying around? Also? Do you have a link could
we listen? Yeah? I'd love to listen to Payton's podcast.
You know we should. We should listen to Payton's podcasts
and then do a podcast about the podcast, and then
(26:53):
do a podcast about the podcast about like pod sception
just worlds in world. You know you're a Matt wrapped
in a mystery, wrapped inside a bit. Sorry, um, we haven't.
We haven't done the recap of this episode for anyone
(27:14):
who didn't watch the actual episode. So I'm going to Okay,
it's the first day of school. Lucas and Haley make
predictions on their year. That's the little you know, brick
that goes in the wall and the tin. Nathan makes
a final decision on his and Haley's marriage, which is
what we've been talking about. He says, you know, I
don't want an annulment. I wanted to force with the
(27:34):
question mark though with a question mark. But but you know,
let's trick happens in a year. It's like, really, but okay,
we'll get there. Um. Lucas and Peyton find out why
Ellie was buying drugs, which is that she says she
has cancer and she the marijuana helps with the symptoms.
And Dan finds out the truth of Lucas's involvement in
the fire through a very intense scene in the gym
(27:56):
with with Dan choking Lucas and Lucas it's assault making
crazy faces and Peyton like get and it was so
much okay, And Lucas and Brooke continue to date non exclusively,
maybe because Lucas definitely definitely calls her bluff and say.
(28:17):
And then Whitey announces he's retiring from coaching after Karen
shows up and really saves the day when Dan tries
to get Whitey fired. It was a packed episode. Mount
is back. That was great to see him out with
his microphone and the boys are back. The boys are
back in town. Yeah, it was fun. You know what
I did really love? I loved that. I mean, listen,
(28:41):
this relationship stuff is personal to everyone for every reason.
I love that as we see it through these characters
as young people trying to find their way. You have
this sort of wise sage energy in Whitey, and even
though he's being threatened by Dan, he uses to spend
his time in his very ordinary way, continuing to pass
(29:04):
out detention slips and just walk Nathan and Haley and
detention together every day after school. I love this I
loved it. And he kicks out other boy out. He's like,
m so nobody else even got detention, is gonna is
gonna do the time just the two of you. The
(29:26):
duality of him trying to do this thing that goes
so far above and beyond what a teacher's responsibilities are,
you know, like so many teachers have been dealing with
crazy school board meetings this year. They've been dealing with
a lack of resources to deal with a pandemic, a
lack of resources like period in the classroom. There's been
(29:46):
so much crazy thrown at teachers. And you see a
character like Whitey where that's not his job description to
care about the relationship of these like two kids that
shouldn't have even gotten married the first place. You know,
he's there to coach basketball and teach pe and be
home by five o'clock. That's it. And he does so
(30:09):
much more, and he's so much more involved in the community,
and he's involved in the emotional development of these kids.
And to see him defended in a school board meeting,
I hope people everywhere bring that kind of energy for
their former teachers, for their current teachers, Like teachers are
so worthy of defense, and Karen does a great job
(30:30):
of of hitting those notes in this episode, and you
know what, I love too. She also hits the reality
of raising kids. She says, they don't deserve anything, They've
got to earn it. That's a person who deserves better
is Whitey And I was like, God, that's good, because
(30:51):
it's true. They're just boys playing sports like you either
win or you don't. Grow up and get over it.
But this man has earned you are respect and your
consideration and and your empathy as a leader for your boys.
And I just, oh, she played that so beautifully. I'll
tell you that's some good advice. I think a lot
(31:13):
of a lot of parents myths on a lot of
this upcoming generation. I see this a lot of disrespect
for adults. There's a lot of just I guess maybe
it's the fact that social media provides a space where
you feel like your voice is important. And uh, you know,
if you're a teenager and you're um, you haven't earned
(31:35):
a position of respect in any way to just be
able to kind of have access to hundreds of listening years,
and it's like it's got a kind of really mess
with your sense of the place, with your place in
the world, like what have you earned and what haven't
you earned? Um? And I think it's I think that's
really good advice that Karen's giving, Like you, Yes, you exist,
(32:00):
and we are glad that you're on this planet. Now
earn it. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think it's like when
you think about those theories of non attachment, like when
when you say that I don't know why this is
what my brain is choosing to word vomit, but here
we are and I have your captive ears, so deal
with it, um. But it makes me think about like studying,
(32:24):
you know, all sorts of faiths, as all of us
have discussed a lot, like so much of the theory
of Eastern philosophy is everything is sacred and nothing matters
like it's it's every being is precious and you're just
one of many like you are you you have God
in you. And also every single thing in the universe
(32:46):
is one and is the same and as equal and
and I love the duality of that, recognizing that you
are precious and also that you're one of many, and
they're both true. And I think when the scales get
tipped in direction when you don't think you're worthy. It
can be damaging. And when you think the world revolves
around you, you're an asshole. Like you've got to have
(33:08):
some balance on the scale. And and Dan is the
kind of person who thinks he's one of one and
his son is one of one, and it's toxic. And
Karen is kind of the person tipping the scale back
in the other direction, and and you need that balance, yea.
(33:29):
What she's doing two ways. She she combats his whole
you know, narrative about Whitey publicly, but then privately she's
giving advice to Nathan that is so final because she
says to him, She's like, you wanted her home, You
wanted her home more than anything in the whole wide world.
And here she is, what are you going to do
(33:51):
about it? Yeah? And you know, let's when you look
at like the relationship between between the two of him,
it's his dad's ex girlfriend, you know, like it's his
dad's potential Haley. You know how different would Dandy if
he'd stayed with Karen um the grounded girl, the girl
(34:15):
next door? Uh? Will he turn into his father if
he doesn't get back with Haley? Do you know what
I mean? Yes? It makes me mad. At Nathan, because
I'm looking at this going you got exactly like you
asked for. This is exactly what you wanted. That's right,
everything you wanted. She's here. Now she's here. And how
(34:38):
is it her fault that you couldn't hold out hope
long enough that you couldn't like just hang on and honestly,
what was it like? Weeks? Like what like three months?
A couple? In a few months, Yeah, gus, I'd be
I would be a kicked hornet's nest if someone put
me through that for three months, I'd be so mad
if I was in love. I don't know, I don't know.
(35:02):
I think the reason I love it so much not
obviously having to have played. I love that as a viewer.
To me, they're both right. Yeah, I'm like, Nathan, what
(35:25):
are you doing? She's finally back? And then I'm like,
but he's really hurt and she's going to have to
prove to him she's never going to hurt him again. Like,
I weirdly agree with them both, and I think that's
why we feel so invested in them as a couple,
because you you really root for them both, even when
the things you're rooting for sometimes could be painted as
(35:48):
opposing feelings. I'm very impatient with Nathan. I'm going to
say it because there is, because you know she loves
There is a deep peyton sawyer vein in me. And
having had so much death, right, the thing that is
just the constant drum beat in my head is you're
(36:11):
gonna die. You're gonna die, everyone's gonna die. We get
this much time. Why the funk are you wasting it?
Don't waste A sixteen year old doesn't know that. Okay,
well here's here's a hill to come in and ruin
it for your kids. You get this much time, don't
spend it sulking, don't spend it choosing misery. You know,
(36:36):
it's so true. It's hard to see that when you're young.
It's really hard to see it. It feels like you
have so much more time. Yeah, and it can often
be a first big loss that right sizes your brain
about what time means. I remember having like this major
so dumb. The two of us now, even when we
(36:57):
think about it, are like, wow, stupid major two rams
just butting heads conflict with one of my best friends
from college, and we were both just like petulant, you know,
twenty some things in our corners, being like you apologize first, No,
you apologize first, like we were just so mad, and
then her dad died and it lit nothing mattered. I
(37:22):
got on a plane out of Wilmington's on the first
flight out on Saturday morning and was at her house
and I was like, we can cry or we can
hit each other. I don't really give what do you need?
I brought lunch, like and it was over, Like our
fight was over, and it it seemed so important four
days before. And we've never spoken of it since, you know,
(37:45):
other than to make fun of each other for being
stupid like we it really does. I think sometimes when
you're young, take like that emotional car crash moment to
to just readjust all those things in your brain. Yeah,
in practice takes practice, like earnestly being able to um
(38:08):
address things and decide what's important. When you're a kid,
you don't know how to decide what's important, Like is
the kiss between Haley and Chris Keller are important? Or
is it the tour that's important? Like being able to
pinpoint things is something that takes practice, but you have
to want to do You have to want to do
(38:29):
that and ority takes practice like being willing to admit
that the real thing when anytime there's a fight between
two people is that you're both kind of right and
you're both kind of wrong. Yeah, takes practice being like, yeah,
here's what I can own and I love you. Here
(38:50):
we are theory about Nathan right now, which is I'm
wondering if you know, part of the reason why he
was drawn to Haley was the safety of it that
she was so stable and he grew up in such
an unstable environment that there was something that was really
stable about her that he put on his own pedestal
of this is going to save me. Her stability is
(39:12):
going to save me. And when she decided to bail
on her own stability because she needed to go, you know,
check other things out for herself, it turned him upside
down inside out because he didn't her stability was what
he was relying on. He didn't have any of his own.
That feels like, this isn't what I bought eggs and
(39:36):
you gave me cheese. What am I gonna do with that?
You know? I mean that was and I picked someone
not like my mom who was always leaving, and then
you left, So no wonder their marriage was supposed to
be the opposite of Dan and Deb's marriage, and then
suddenly they were in a Dan and Deb marriage. In
(39:59):
his mind, I'm not saying yes, thank you, not in reality,
but to him, he's going, well, she's gone all the
time and doesn't pick up my phone calls, and I'm
becoming this bitter, angry man. So no Wonder, them inside
him is going, oh, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm
not I'm never going to do this again. And so
no Wonder he's got walls up with her. Yeah, I
(40:19):
mean getting it. I'm getting it. And you know what
I loved because, yeah, man, I I think I see
so much of where Nathan comes from because of what
Brooke was going through and because you know me as
Sophia sees what both Nathan and Brooke we're going through.
I loved that we got that scene in the apartment
(40:42):
I forgot, Like I knew we had great scenes in
their Joy, but that moment for Haley and Brooke when
Haley is mad and like throwing Aundrey on the bed
and it's all about the scrunches and the things, because
Brooke is just like masking, deflecting and I'm having fun.
Oh she being the party. Girl is being the party yeah,
(41:07):
Oh my god, mass um. And it was so interesting
watching us because I watched Brooks see that Haley was
having a hard time and she was like, you gotta
get on my train, come here through. I threw your
arms over my and and that line this is where
(41:29):
it comes from. That. I loved it. Sometimes people play
hard to get because they need to know the other
person's feelings were real. Yeah, and I'm admitting to you
that I know that's what Nathan is doing because it's
what I'm doing, that's what you're doing it. That was
such a beautiful scene. I love Brooks like mom energy
around everybody right now. She's just stepping up and being like,
(41:52):
all right, listen, everybody around here needs moms. I'm gonna
do it, and I'm gonna have my phone fun on
the side. But also she's taking care of her herself.
She's taking a little taking care of the little girl
inside of herself, making sure that all the ducks are
in a row before she launches herself into another, you know,
open heart situation with a guy. But I also really
loved Lucas decorating her locker a little romantic things that
(42:16):
are like, I love you, I'm here, I'm going to
do all the little things for you too. It's not
just the grand sweeping gestures. You know. That was really sweet.
It was really sweet. Guys. I have been at the
butt end of all of the Brook Lucas fan base
like forever, like Peyton's worst Brooke and Lucas forever forever,
(42:37):
and I guess I've always just had to defend myself
so could never really just sit back and watch the
Brooke and Lucas of it all. I totally get it.
I totally totally get it. I can see why you're
frustrated with Peyton, because there is a real magic to
Brooke and Lucas, and this is some cleverness that the
(43:02):
both of them exhibit, and they challenge each other, and
they're flirty and they're cute with each other, and they're
figuring out at the same time. You know, Brook doesn't
know how to say what she wants, Lucas doesn't really
know how to say what she wants, and they're just
kind of tiptoeing to that line. It's really fun to watch.
(43:25):
And the scene in the apartment where he's trying to
get you to be his like girlfriend, conlusive girlfriend, and
you're trying to just like make out something you wanted.
You've got something he wanted. It's a very cute version
of a duel. Yes, that's a perfect scene. It's perfect. Yeah.
(43:47):
I loved it, and I love that they that they
wrote him leaving and me being so surprised. You know,
the comedy was great. And it's funny that you say that, Hillary,
because as you were saying that, I was like, oh
my god, this is how I feel because I've i
which guy's We've talked about this and we'll talk about
it forever. It doesn't make any sense to attack your
(44:08):
two favorite girlfriends for being the same guy's girlfriend. At
some point, Like, I've been on the on the but
end of the of the Lucas and Peyton fans for
so long that I've leaned so hard into being like, yeah,
Lucas and like Lucas and Payton are awesome. I don't
know any complaints about Lucas and Payton. I've so been
(44:29):
like I'm on the endgame team, leave me out of this,
and I'm like, oh no, this was a good Like
this was a cute on screen relationship. This was a
This was a really good teenage experience for two people
to learn about hurt and honesty and trying again and integrity,
(44:50):
And I get why people like it. Yeah, they're growing,
you know what I mean. It's like, you know how
sometimes w we enter into relationships the one person is like, oh,
I'm going to be the pillar and you can lean
on me and I'll take care of you. Brooke and
Lucas are really figuring it out like together, and they're
(45:14):
dealing with like the stuff that's very teenage. You know.
That's what I was going to say, Kid Stepan are
doing like grown up, which isn't necessarily relatable to everyone.
But the flirty thing of like literally all I want
you to do is kiss my neck right now, and
you're making it weird. You're making a weird Yeah. And
(45:35):
I think what's interesting is because Peyton for so long
was dealing with such adult things, Lucas could be his
most mature intellectual Why well no, But so many people
were like, that's real, But I think what's it's all real?
(45:55):
But Lucas and Brooke are in a very teenage in
a experience together, and Lucas and Peyton had these very
like deep feeling, grown up experiences together, the bonding, but
it's it's like, look, it's just experience, I smash and
so it's so it's interesting to realize, like, oh yes,
(46:19):
I would bet you that if you know the fans
looked inward, they would say, oh yeah, I relate to
the teenage thing, like that's my ideal film versus I
wanted the ideal adult you know, here's my thing. Well,
just respond to what they respond to. Do you think
that the younger fan base is like more attracted to
that deep, grown up emotional I'm going to hold your
(46:41):
hand thing, and then like older people are looking at
the fun that I wonder. I'm so happy to not
see Lucas being creepy anymore because he was so creepy
with Peyton. Remember the first season how we were like
take off. Speaking of creepy, when you start dating, you
(47:04):
are a creep you just are you mess up hence mouth,
hence mouth being oh he just can't rein it in.
I know, we all become stalkers when we start dating.
Every We're you know, in our phone, stocking people on
their on their social media, just checking up on everyone,
(47:25):
calling friends and we're heartbroken. What else is he gonna do? Well? Yeah,
by the way, can you imagine if we've been in
our twenties dating with Instagram? I can't imagine. So it's
it's cute to realize that mouth having his little podcast.
It's like kind of the first space where someone could
(47:46):
vent inappropriately in public, where now you see people like
posting stuff about their ex is online and you're like, oh,
just don't it's a bare this later, you just don't,
don't do it. Yeah, I um. I as a fan
of the show, I'm really feeling Brooke and Lucas this
episode and the teenage stuff. I just I think I
(48:09):
think it's the light part of the episode and we're
dealing with so much heavy stuff. Like Dan's out of
his mind with the dastard. He's a full sociopath. He
shows up at the beach party. He like last episode,
he was like on the beach when Lucas was on
the beach, just having a run in the morning. Then
he's let the beach party, breaking a glass in his hand, which,
(48:31):
by the way, a huge whiskey tumbler. Breaking it in
your hand, come on. Then and then he's like showing
up ed White He's office, and he's showing up at
the gym and he's just everyone like, it must be
Paren's cafe to cafe He's I mean, he's just wandering
around all day long looking for ways to go be
(48:52):
an asshole. How exhausting is that? We're back to the
to the Dan Scott who like metaphorically has trackers on
everybody's carse like, how do you know where all these
people are? You're a creep? And he just he's just
creeping around town being scary. And then he chokes his child.
And by the way, I couldn't believe Hillary, he palmed
(49:13):
your forehead and shoved you backwards by your face. Okay,
can we talk about that? You guys talk about it.
We weren't there to tell us everything. I hated it.
I hated it so in the gym because any time
a fight scene has to go on for so long
(49:34):
that an actor in the scene can get all of
their dastardly exposition out, it looks fake because that's not
how fights work in real life. Not that I fight,
or maybe I know, but Peyton, Peyton is scrappy. She
would have come back to the Peyton and Nikki got
into a fight in season one, Like Peyton has already
(49:56):
been in physical altercations on this show, so we know
that she was to like pull the hair, paunch the neck,
like do the things. Yeah, And when a scene is
designed for the camera and for the lines instead of
for the intention of the scene, it doesn't work. And
(50:18):
so they really wanted to get that three sixty shot
of a steadicam going all the way around us while
Dan was like, you know, stopping off whatever he's doing.
But what that meant is that I was only allowed
to hold onto Paul's arm and kind of like struggle
and like quit it, Mr, you're getting slapping him in
(50:39):
the face, Like yeah, I would have had fingernails in
his eyeballs and in his ears and like ripping chunks
of hair while he's choking a child, you know, Chad
and his tongue hanging out of his mouth because he's
supposed to be getting choked and Painte's just like quit it,
just stop it, you make You're right. The scene was
(51:02):
so long for her Dan's exposition that I literally had
the thought, because the camera was on that side of
his face, I go, why didn't the director let Hillary
scratch his face, slap his face, like, try to poke
him in the eyes. Like it was so strange. And
I just looked on our breakdown And I don't mean
this critically, it just is interesting to your point. It's
(51:23):
designed for camera. This episode is another episode directed by
Billy Dixon, who we love, but he was our DP,
and so he's thinking, I want to do this circular shot.
Don't block the shot. But what it does is it
suspends the belief in the fight because you're like, well,
there's a third person there, why can't I see her? Yeah,
(51:44):
it's a tricky line to walk. As actors. It's important
that we you know, when we show up, we have
to consider all these things and we have to speak
up and say this. I'm I mean, I know I
say this a lot on sets, but I'll get to
set and we'll still blocking something and I'm like, this
doesn't make sense, and here's all the reasons why. And
then the DP and the director and you know, the
(52:07):
a D. Everybody's like, oh gods, again, it's going to
take longer or the worst. But I'm like, but it's
not gonna be believable. Do you want it to look
like ship or do you want people to actually believe
the story. What do you want? And for me too,
I am such a people pleaser that it is so
much harder for me to say I don't like your
(52:27):
idea to someone who I really love, you know, like
I and like, it's not like he was going to
leave our show and go away, you know, like he
was going to go back to being DP the next episode,
and so I couldn't um I like him. I'm not
going to tell him I think your shots dumb. Not
(52:48):
everybody has great ideas all the time. It's okay, Like
even the best people have dumb ideas. Sometimes, you know,
you have to try him and see if it works.
This scene didn't do it for me. Twenty years later,
I'm still like, Goad, I should have that, should have does.
What's also tricky is sometimes you have a feeling you're
going I should be hitting him, and they're going, no,
it looks great on camera, yeah, and we didn't see it,
(53:09):
and you're like, oh man, you know, every people have
different beliefs in what makes something great. And I think
for us, we're obviously watching this show as actors, going yeah,
but you would have slapped him. But it's like you're
going on, but my face is going to be on
the camp, Like nobody's going to be looking at anything
except my face. And if you put me in a
(53:30):
position where I look dumb because I can't sell the
scene because the camera is doing something that's inhibiting my
ability to do a good job, then I look dumb.
At the end of the day, I'm the one that
looks dumb. So yeah, it's hard. I just want to
hear you say that to a director. I'm the one
who looks dumb. Mr. I'm just so confused about some
(53:53):
of the adulating in this episode because okay, um, when
there is an arson and you know, like Dan's flipping
through this arson report, there would be an investigation and
there would be people like constantly at the site and
like digging into Dan's life. Luke, who would want to
kill you? They would be the ones questioning Karen like
(54:15):
there's zero police presence around this major crime. That's a
major crime. Yeah. The other thing is Peyton's dad is
finally home. They have this like lovely little heart to heart,
but then she doesn't tell them that her ex boyfriend's
dad just like face palmed her like that that's something
(54:36):
that you tell your mom and dad like I was
physically assaulted by an adult today. The choking and like,
you know, almost watching your ex boyfriend slash really good friend,
like almost die in front of you, and the adrenaline
of trying to stop that from happening. You wouldn't just
go home and be like, I'm gonna go sit and
watch traffic lights for a while. Man, I just really
need to what do we do? Take a load off?
(54:58):
I mean, it isn't a ten did murder? Like? Dan's
mad that someone tried to murder him, so then he
tried to murder someone to make up for it. It's
very insane. This you too creepy? Yeah, I don't like it, Sam,
(55:18):
do better, Do better? Guys, this was a shocked full episode.
There was so much stuff what we missed. I can't.
Can we end on a high note because I know
we have a lot to say about Dan that's negative
because he's being a sociopath, so it's warranted. But guys,
when not a surf kicks in at the end and
(55:38):
always love started, Oh my god, it made my heart
explode and over you guys putting your new predictions in
for the first time, you did on the first day
of school instead of before, and everyone just like really
digging into their feelings and and learning to express That's song.
(56:00):
It's like, I feel it in my bones. It makes
me so happy. We're growing from Bree Brian Greenberg. If
Brian Greenberg never left the show, do you think Jake
(56:20):
and Peyton would have been endgame? I do? Do you do? Yeah?
I do? Because the chemistry was so strong. I mean,
I don't. I don't know. You think they were so
committed to the Peyton and Lucas I think, yeah, I
just don't know. There's so much about Peyton that made
(56:43):
sense to me as a kid that was like, no,
she wants to be with Luke. That's who, you know,
was the first person that like called her bluff, you know,
because before then she was just a cheerleader and Dayton
basketball player and everybody just went with it. And he
was the first one that was like, you're miserable, um,
And so I unders down that, and then I also
understand like Peyton wanting to have a family with Jake
(57:04):
because it's what she always wanted, and she gets to
kind of buy into this instant thing. I don't know,
there's a lone wolf quality to Peyton that I don't
know will ever fully be end game with anyone. Is
that to say she's very Joe March. She's very Joe March.
There's a quality, That's what I mean. There's a thing
(57:27):
about you know with Joe from Little Women like if yeah,
when you when you read Little Women and you you
get to know Joe and you want her so badly
to be with Lorie because of the young romance and
it's so exciting. But there is something that does make
sense about her in the end ending up with this
professor who's older and she's known for a long time,
(57:51):
and there's a piece there where he gives her the
space to just completely be herself in her own world.
They have a partnership. It's not a wild, passionate romp
all the time, but there is a maturity and a
and a camaraderie companionship there that that's something I could
see for Peyton down the line. That wasn't something where
(58:11):
she gets to be fully herself, fully independent, fully that
lone wolf, but also having a partner who appreciates that
nears her dad relationship where she's got this person who
loves her so much and it is totally hands off.
You know. There's so much codependence on our show that
I sometimes worry about romanticizing that. Um And yeah, me too.
(58:35):
You know what, though, I guess perhaps as our characters
got older and we did the time jump, that was
the thing I leaned into as a viewer, like a reader,
an observer or whatever, because we obviously didn't see all
the episodes, but we read them. Um. I think the
thing that I really connected with Peyton and Lucas was
that kind of energy. Writers are often solitary people. They
(58:59):
have to go away, they have to write, they have
to be isolated, and and Lucas was a quieter character,
and so I think just emotionally, as we got older, Yeah,
so many of our scenes did get very codependent. Everything
was about the rolls and the feelings for all and
(59:20):
not just you guys. But I think, like in my
imagination of the ways our characters lived their lives, like
Brooke Davis did work in groups very often. She might
sketch up late at night alone, but like she worked
with teams and did things. And I always envisioned like
(59:41):
Peyton working in the studio and Lucas working in his
little office or in the window with the computer, Like
I saw these two solitary creatives coexisting and maybe that's why. Yeah, yeah,
are we spending a wheel? It's spin a wheel. Most
(01:00:02):
guys get nerves sometimes when we start telling stories, and
then I start to be like, I can't really just
openly talk. I have to couch this in some mystery.
And then I'm like, oh man, what am I even saying?
I should just stop talking? You know what, life is short.
And also there's a part of me that really believes
that that's that quote. That's like I have to find it.
(01:00:25):
But it's basically like, if people didn't want you own
your own ship, you own your ship. If somebody did
something horrible to you, it's that's an experience that you
had and you wanted to speak treated you better. They
should have treated you better. That's so much better. Yeah,
that's what I went meant to say. That's the one
I like that. Guys, we have a we have a
winner of the wheel and this week's oh my god,
(01:00:47):
this is actually insane. This week's wheel says who's most
likely to be a drama queen? I mean, okay, on
the most likely I mean mouth is probably being a
very big drama queen. I think the biggest drama queen
(01:01:08):
of all though, is Dan Scott. I just cannot even
with the addicted to drama it is. He loves in
to a room without saying something absurd. It's yeah, yeah,
he should be on Real Housewives of who cares like
Real Housewives or whatever. But he's got tree Hill. Yeah,
(01:01:29):
he's got strong real housewife energy, the new iteration of
tree Hill. There's got to be like it's all Housewives
and like Dan Scott love that if he hadn't died
in real life, I'm here for if we had to
pick an actress from any other team drama that we
would want to be like an honorary drama queen in
real life. Carrie Russell, you love God, such a girl.
(01:01:56):
Crush on her? Yeah, yeah, I love her. I'm going
Kelly Copowski, Tiffany Evertheson, she is forever drama queen. She's
so wonderful. Yeah, yeah, she was a good I mean yeah,
both of them need to come on the show. I'd also, man,
I'd love for Michelle Williams. Oh my god, I just
(01:02:18):
love her. I love her in her little pixie cut,
and I want to talk to her about making movies
and also about Wilmington's but we all end all Queen
Drama Queen Sally Field, Oh my god, the best crier
on television Icon Sally Field. That the original teen queen.
(01:02:41):
She was Gidget. That's right, guys, she's had the longest
career like anybody on the planet. I think let's get
Sally Field on the podcast. My god, would I would die? Okay?
Are we ready for that? Okay, love you guys, Thank you.
Come back next week. The next episode is season three
(01:03:03):
episode for an attempt to tip the scales. I can't
wait to see you soon by see you next week. Hey,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
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(01:03:27):
are all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl,
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(00:24):
Welcome to the show, everyone, Welcome to show. People. We
didn't even my gosh, what a great episode, just another
episode love. We all may or may not have been
in tears at the end, and by that I mean
we definitely work. I literally need to take a break
to go cry. But I feel like, um, do you
feel like acidy in your chest? Because it's just like
(00:49):
so real. Can it just be better already? You know,
like you're watching Hayley struggle episode after episode after episode.
You just wanted to be better already, and we are
not getting that instat gratification and it feels like heartbert.
I'm so glad though, because that's real life and you
(01:13):
know it. I will say, this episode title feels like
it's Hayley's journey, y'all. It's season three, episode three, and
the title is first day on the brand new planet,
and she is certainly in a whole new world. This
aired originally October ninete two thousand five. And my god,
we've said it once before, We'll say it a hundred
(01:34):
times more. We love season three. Mm hmm. This was
really hard for me to watch. I have been I
have been in this scenario in my real life, and
you know, I mean not like exactly obviously, but like,
but there are enough similarities in different relationships that I've
(01:56):
had where it's like I've just I've been in that
feeling of like can we fix it? Can I can
I get fixed? Can can I do anything to fix this?
And constantly feel well, first of all, constantly choosing men
where I'm always feel like I'm the one who's been
because I'm just don't have a great picker in the
(02:16):
first place. So like my my track record, you have
a sympathetic picker, is what you have? That's true, um,
But constantly being in the position where I feel like
I'm trying to fix things? How do I fix it?
How do I fix it? I would fix it? I'm
you know, I'm the one that I'm the one that um,
(02:37):
even though most of the time it probably hasn't been me,
but I put myself Yeah, I mean that's not true.
What ultimately, what it means for me while I'm watching
this episode is that I have a muscle memory of
feeling those feelings. Whether they came from a real place
or whether they came from a place of being convinced
of something that wasn't true, doesn't really matter. The feelings
(02:59):
existed in my audie, and I'm having to relive them
again as I empathize with Nathan and Haley, And of
course I physically actually was there, and so I have
muscle memory from that's doing those scenes and from real life,
and I'm like, I'm actually getting pretty emotional. It's it's
kind of hard to watch. It's hard to watch. Maybe
did you know though, like in real life relationships? Um,
(03:21):
obviously we shot this stuff when we were really young.
Did you see the connection between like fact and fiction
while you were in it or you've only just seen
it now? I don't know. I think back then it
was just a storyline and I had been, you know,
like the boy I loved in high school and loved
(03:43):
me back, and so I think I probably drew on that,
but you're so young and the future is still so
full of hope and all the possibilities that are coming
down the line. You don't you know, I didn't connect
it to then, but now being in my life where
I am and you know, still not having found the
relationship that I dream of and maybe never will and
maybe that's okay, and maybe it's okay to be single,
and like, there's just so many layers to where my
(04:05):
life is now, but it still taps into a longing
and I hope that I have. But you know, the
older you get, that like, the harder it seems to
be to find. But when you're young, it's like I am,
but you know what I want to say, As as
you know, you've got two of your best friends on
this call who figured out who their people are. But
like Hillary, you and we've talked about this a lot.
(04:26):
You have always been so discerning and you were on
your very early like Joy, you and I have been
figuring things out. We've process a little more slowly and
and and so to be. You know, we've looked at
you for twelve years and like seeing your relationship the
two of us and for me two and a half
(04:48):
years in what I can say and what was? So,
what's something I'll be, Oh, man, I like something, I
will belive you cry do. Something I will always cherish
in my friendships with both of you is that we've
held mirrors up for each other for a very long time.
(05:09):
And both of you have said versions to me of
what you just said, Hilary, which is it's about discernment
and sympathy. And I know I said this on a
podcast here a long time ago when my dad was like,
no more sick puppies, about the men I was picking
to like fix and help and save and mother and
all of this, that's not your responsibility as a partner.
(05:33):
When when I and it wasn't easy. But when I said, okay,
if I have often picked through a lens of response
to serve or sympathy, how can I understand that? And
it was well, I'm a romantic, I'm a storyteller. I
believe in people. I'm an optimist, so I often fall
(05:56):
in love with potential. It is not as a partner
my job or your job to help another person realize
their potential. You can support someone in realizing their potential,
you can't make them do it, and when I shifted
the place that I pick from, or that I was
willing to see potential from, to being not sympathetic but inspired.
(06:22):
M M. I went oh oh. And it's not lost
on me nor any of my friends that the person
I went oh about I've known for ten years. You
already were friends with him, and everybody was like, welcome
to your own party, idiot, And I was like, well, cool,
(06:42):
I'm glad I'm here. So I say that only because like,
I hate that the world has made us think that
as we get older, we're like stuck in our ways,
or that it gets harder to find your person. I
just think you get smarter and you know yourself better,
and you have the capability to shift the place you
(07:06):
choose from in a way now as this joy today
that you sure she didn't have five years ago, let
alone ten years ago. So the woman, I mean, even
even what we've had the good fortune of you know,
we do the podcast, but we have a lot of
time together on these zooms. Guys you all at home
don't get to hear, and I'm not sorry, like we
(07:28):
get to what we get to watch, like what I've
witnessed you do in the last year is so like
earth shaking. Remember the first podcast and Joy was like,
I don't want to do it. I'm uncomfortable now and
you're like Queen of the Segways and killing the intros,
(07:49):
like you're killing you killing it. You have to be
a sympathetic with yourself as you are with the people
that you have dated. Um, and that's really hard for
oldest and only kids to do, to say like, no,
get out of my bedroom. This is my room, you
know what I mean, Like you have to take on
(08:12):
that oldest kid energy. And even though you guys don't
have like, you know, typical younger siblings, you're the oldest
kid in your family and that's what you got to
lean into. The these are the rules, these are the boundaries.
You're not the only thing because only kids are like
I've got to do all the things. I've got to
take care of everyone because I'm the only one, whereas
(08:35):
oldest all falls on me and it's like no oldest kids.
It's a it's a very slight shift. But I want
you to like lean into your oldest kid energy. That's
just like you guys are being assholes right now. Stop
stop stop yeahah, I just like, I'm excited for this
joy to find her person because if you had, if
(08:58):
you had settled for you know, if you would yeah,
like you, you just wouldn't be happy. And so I
believe in you. And like we learn our lessons when
(09:19):
we learn them, we can't like we didn't all find
our Jeffrey twelve years ago. But like ya, this training,
come on, it's a it's a it's a I don't know.
It's really hard to hear from your friends who have
(09:39):
kids about how to have a baby. It's hard to
hear from your friends who have like a kick ass
career how to just wait your turn. It's hard to
hear from your married friends how to find a relationship.
That's really hard to hear from the person who has
what you want. It's a great point. I can say
that you know something that's been a really it's been
really great for me in this in this journey of
(10:01):
being single, especially over the last ten years. I mean
I've dated him off, but um, the I was always
really boy crazy when I was a kid, always looking
for validation in that specific zone, which probably certainly led
me into relationships that I shouldn't have been in in
the first place or you know, because I just was
so desperate for approval UM and and being now in
(10:23):
this place where I've I've raised a child on my own,
probably most very very likely with undiagnosed a d h
D myself not her UM, you know, which also is
if you have it, you know how shocking that is
to be able to like raise a polite, kind human
(10:44):
spectacular she's you know, with a constant mind that just
doesn't stop and can't be still and kid, you know,
I mean that's that's there's a lot that's really hard
about that UM. And it's the the idea of the
romantic relationship, the perfect romantic relationship has really fallen off
the pedestal. It's really come down, come crashing down in
(11:06):
a lot of ways. And it wasn't always easy, but
the way that it came down and now I feel
so I love my life. I'm so content. I love
I love being single, I love my freedom, I love UM.
And yes there are days when it's hard and feels lonely,
and yeah that's hard sometimes, but ultimately I've I've become
(11:27):
so comfortable with myself and and I love my life
and I love who I am. That my bar has
become much higher and my you know, and so like,
in order to come into this life, a man's really
got to he's I don't it's gonna feel like a miracle,
(11:49):
I mean, which is why sometimes it feels sad because
I'm like, that guy's never been out there. There's no
way anybody's coming into this space. But it's okay, you know, Look,
not everybody's meant to be paired off with someone. And
I'm actually okay with that too, but you know, I
say that, but then I'm like weeping at the end
of this episode, Like, but it's because Joy, it was
that little tiny thing of putting his hand on her back.
(12:15):
It because what you want is a shorthand. That's the
part of intimacy that's so exciting. It's not the sex.
It's not like going on trips, and it's the shorthand
where there is one other person in the space that
knows exactly what to do or exactly what to say,
or exactly just how to be. And that shorthand, I
(12:37):
think is what is so attractive about Nathan and Haley.
But it's also like kind of a weird thing to
explain on a dating mapp do you know what I mean.
It's like, how do I say I'm looking for someone
that can just read my mind? You know? And that
sounds like a total bitch, But that's what you're looking for.
I want the person who can make eye contact with
(12:58):
me across the party. And we'll both giggle because we're
being a little rude. But it's cute, Like, is that
that's what you say on your profile? I don't know,
it's hilarious. Let's do that thing, I know. But Nathan
and Haley, like, this is tough. It's tough to watch
her um trying and trying and trying and doing what
can I do? How do I How do I make
you love me? How do I make you love me?
(13:20):
And then have him say we're getting a divorce, but
maybe something will happen in the next year. Then he
shows up and then he puts his hand on her back.
It's like there's so many mixed messages, there's so many
emotional it's an emotional roller coaster. It's it's really really,
really tough. Well, I'm also realizing as we're talking about
this moment we find ourselves in and you know, the
(13:42):
things that you're processing and what what this episode in particular,
especially after episode two kind of triggered in and how
Haley is trying to undo a thing she did. You
also are like, oh, if I got in trouble for
things I didn't do as a gas lighting, all those
things mix up in our bodies. But I would also imagine,
(14:06):
like it's got to be Look, we all feel the
pressure of the love story of the fairy tale ending,
right all all people do we make for a living? Yes,
like we are part of the problem. But it must
make It must be crazy making to have been part
(14:27):
of one of the iconic love story couples that last
the entire sing the old relationship that last like the
entire series. Yeah, Like, good god, what a lot of
pressure for you for young actress Joy figuring out her life,
(14:48):
to constantly have her life be held up against the
fictional fairy tale of Nathan and Haley. Like, that's a
lot of pressure. Yeah, that's true. I didn't think about that.
I've never thought about it until this moment. Do you
(15:10):
guys think because this job was such a big chunk
of our formative years, do you think it changed like
who we dated? Like I know for a fact because
Peyton cried so much. I tried so hard to be
so fun outside of work and like party girl outside
of work, and I turned my house into a frat house,
(15:30):
and so I just needed to date people who let
me do that. You know. That definitely factored into my
dating choices because I was like, I've got to be
the most fun ever. And then the second I escaped,
I was like, I need to find someone that would
kick someone's ask for me, and like that was yeah,
(15:51):
I really it's crazy how your job can affect these
like personal choices. Of course it does, and like I
know for sure there's there was kind of like a
trifecta of things at work. First of all, we were
isolated in a town where all of the people around
us were either eighteen or sixty five, Like there was
(16:15):
no one kind of young and single in our real
age range around and so that made it weird. Then
we were on TV, which made it weirder and at
least for me, like Hillary, when you're like, oh, I
had to combat Peyton, I had to be the most
fun person in the room. For me, going through betrayal
of my trust and gas lighting in my earlier years,
(16:39):
I became the person especially as I was playing Brooke
who could never trust anybody, who always got lied to,
and I had been lied to. I became a person
who would not date someone I didn't know. I had to, Like,
I would go on dates whatever, but I'd always get
spooked at the spread flag. And every couple of years
(17:02):
I'd get in a relationship with someone I'd observed for
years and seeing how they treated other people, other women.
Like even even one of the formative relationships in my twenties,
we were together for three years, but we had dated
off and on years before, and then we were friends
and then we started dating again. I always had to
(17:25):
so we met through like romantic introduction, but I I
could not really be in a relationship without vetting somebody
because my trust saying didn't exist. I'm still that why
it's so hard to find a relationship, because I'm like,
you know, I'm looking at the pool of my friends
and I'm like, well, either I know you too well
in no way um, or it's somebody that's just it's
(17:51):
like I don't know, it's just not in my it's
not there, like i've I've and so to build a
new build all that newness, like let's wait, let's know
each other for like two or three years before I'm
willing to actually want to date with you. You ready
to be my friend? Like that's what I want to be.
I'm just gonna make a bunch of friends and break
(18:13):
through the friend zone. I'll marry you. Did everybody friend
zone did friends? No one would date me. I had
crushes on like everybody on our show, and everyone was like, oh,
you're like a dude. And so when I met Jeff
and he was like, do you want to have a baby?
I was like, yes, sir, and then I was pregnant
(18:34):
a month later. So that's all just to say, there's
a different plan for everyone. Um, and you know that,
like tracks in the narrative of our show, maybe that's
why our show lands with people, because you do have
high school sweethearts, and then you do have like Karen
and Dan, who are an example of like, don't be
(18:56):
with your high school sweetheart. That's a terrible idea. You know.
We've got all these levels of comfort and all these
different pockets that people can find themselves in, and so
it's it is weird to go back and watch this
for the first time as an adult and see parts
of ourselves and are like are adult decision making processes
(19:20):
in these characters. I'm seeing for the first time why
Haley and Nathan resonates with adults so much too, and
not just kids, because adults I as an adult, I'm
looking at this going, oh, my gosh, this is what
an audience must have felt. They have been there. Women,
people have been in a position in relationships where they
do something imperfectly, it affects the other person in the
(19:42):
relationship in a negative way, and then they cannot find
a way to meet back together. And it's just that
struggle of how do we find each other again? That's
a basic issue in so many relationships. I get it,
like I see the pain now well. And figuring out,
you know, figuring out how to diffuse a bomb together
(20:04):
requires so much willingness to show up and be vulnerable.
It requires learning skills like it is impossible to go
through a life in a relationship and not get your
heartbroken a couple of times. That's true in friendships, that's
true in marriages, And it's like even in the same
relationship multiple yes, of course, and and you know, to
(20:30):
to learn how to communicate, I mean, my god, even
to go through something you know with your person, with
your best friend, and then you're like, how did how
did this happen? I'm so upset? And your person looks
at you and goes, wait, what do you mean? And
you go, do you even know me? You know? And
you're sitting here having this realization and you go, oh,
(20:53):
even the person who knows me the best can't know
my every thought. It is a constant coming together to communicate.
I don't know, it's it's crazy to me that we
are all able to do this, to be in relationship.
I mean, we've been friends for twenty years. You guys like,
what does that even mean? We've all had to talk about.
(21:14):
But that's what you do when you love people, And
so I do think you're right. Joy. I think it's
why Nathan and Haley resonate with people at every kind
of age. And what I find fascinating is the ways
we bring our own personal stuff to the story. Like
you're going, he's giving her all these mixed messages. It's
making you think of something from your life, and I'm
(21:36):
and I'm watching the show going. I really love that
even though he's willing to be honest and vulnerable to
the point that it might hurt her. He's not keeping
anything from her, but when she's in a moment of struggle,
he'll still show up. He'll still be there for her.
And and you're like what, And I'm like, oh, he's
just being a real gentleman. And I was like, I
(21:57):
was like, you, look at us. We're all different humans.
We all I don't much easier to stop loving someone
if they're an asshole, if he's just a jerk, it
just goes cold. Then you can stop loving that person eventually.
But if they stay in your life and they keep
showing up and being nice and gracious and gentle, and
they're like, yeah, like I don't love you, I don't
(22:18):
like be with you, but I'll definitely still be your friends.
Like off, do you know what I think? I think
I smell a country song joy. I think it's being
described here is your next album, So it's happening. It's happening.
I would like to be your friend, now go away.
(22:42):
I don't want to be your friend. Is the song
I need you to write next. I love this. Um. Yeah,
you know our show certainly hits pressure points, uh, And
I think there's stuff for all of us that just
like kind of it's too close for home and close
(23:02):
to her um, and I hate that this is you
know what that triggery for you. Joy, It's okay in
it what feels good? Uh well, lots of I loved
this episode. I mean I loved so much about this episode.
It felt like because you're one kind of an episode,
(23:23):
thank you. I loved Haley kind of taking it all
in stride and just keep in showing up and like
I'm going to figure it out. It's gonna be okay.
She's not MOPy and pouty, which I was glad that
they let me run with that choice, that she didn't
end up just being like a sad sack that it
was like, okay, yeah, well everybody hates me, all right,
you know, I just kind of moving on with it.
(23:44):
But I liked that. But and I loved the predictions.
It was really nice to see the brick coming out
of the wall and Lucas and really doing their protection
and I love that. And we had an exciting moment
with Peyton at the end um starting her podcast. Can
(24:04):
we talk about that? Please? Can we move off of
my my Bleeding Heart and on to well listen Peyton
was just setting the table so that we could talk
about your bleeding heart. That's right there. We go like,
I don't know how we aware you guys were, we're
even of this whole like podcast idea. But I had
(24:24):
to go in when we normally do our a d
R additional dialogue recording. Um, I would have to go
in for extra time and record podcasts. They're out there
on the internet. It's like I didn't know they rose
these huge scripts and I would have to read these
scripts like I was just like talking off the cuff.
(24:48):
Um that they didn't pay you. They sure didn't pay
me anything extra, so uh acceptable? Is it punking? I
mean the website was punking disorderly. I don't know if
that's what the podcasts were under, but yeah, I would
have to go record these things, and I was so confused.
I was like, who's just gonna listen to a person
(25:09):
talking like that's weird? Um? But I had grown up
listening to radio shows like NPR every Sunday night at
eight pm would do Lama Abner and Guns Smoke and
The Baby Shook Show. And you know, Suspense was my
(25:29):
favorite because it was this like you know, thriller and
they would scare you with the sounds and things, and
so I remember like understanding the value of audio, but
a teenager talking about our feelings felt like what Yeah, yeah,
that's funny. How did what did they do with it?
(25:49):
Did it? Did they? It went on the internet. They
created the real website punkin Disorderly or whatever it is,
and posted it was so they could blur the line
between fact and fick shin. So they would roll it
out like when our episodes would roll out? And did
were there a lot of listeners? Is there like a
record of those episodes? And and what I mean? Don't
(26:12):
you think did it spin into anything? When did it stop?
I have so many questions. Yeah, this whereas what we
were talking about earlier sounded like a country song. Um,
this seems like a great opportunity for fans to help us,
because I was also going to say, you know who,
we could probably ask Since Warner Brothers is now run
(26:32):
by women, we could probably call up some of the
executives over there and be like, hey, we're one of
your pillar properties, right, do you have any of those
data laying around? Also? Do you have a link could
we listen? Yeah? I'd love to listen to Payton's podcast.
You know we should. We should listen to Payton's podcasts
and then do a podcast about the podcast, and then
(26:53):
do a podcast about the podcast about like pod sception
just worlds in world. You know you're a Matt wrapped
in a mystery, wrapped inside a bit. Sorry, um, we haven't.
We haven't done the recap of this episode for anyone
(27:14):
who didn't watch the actual episode. So I'm going to Okay,
it's the first day of school. Lucas and Haley make
predictions on their year. That's the little you know, brick
that goes in the wall and the tin. Nathan makes
a final decision on his and Haley's marriage, which is
what we've been talking about. He says, you know, I
don't want an annulment. I wanted to force with the
(27:34):
question mark though with a question mark. But but you know,
let's trick happens in a year. It's like, really, but okay,
we'll get there. Um. Lucas and Peyton find out why
Ellie was buying drugs, which is that she says she
has cancer and she the marijuana helps with the symptoms.
And Dan finds out the truth of Lucas's involvement in
the fire through a very intense scene in the gym
(27:56):
with with Dan choking Lucas and Lucas it's assault making
crazy faces and Peyton like get and it was so
much okay, And Lucas and Brooke continue to date non exclusively,
maybe because Lucas definitely definitely calls her bluff and say.
(28:17):
And then Whitey announces he's retiring from coaching after Karen
shows up and really saves the day when Dan tries
to get Whitey fired. It was a packed episode. Mount
is back. That was great to see him out with
his microphone and the boys are back. The boys are
back in town. Yeah, it was fun. You know what
I did really love? I loved that. I mean, listen,
(28:41):
this relationship stuff is personal to everyone for every reason.
I love that as we see it through these characters
as young people trying to find their way. You have
this sort of wise sage energy in Whitey, and even
though he's being threatened by Dan, he uses to spend
his time in his very ordinary way, continuing to pass
(29:04):
out detention slips and just walk Nathan and Haley and
detention together every day after school. I love this I
loved it. And he kicks out other boy out. He's like,
m so nobody else even got detention, is gonna is
gonna do the time just the two of you. The
(29:26):
duality of him trying to do this thing that goes
so far above and beyond what a teacher's responsibilities are,
you know, like so many teachers have been dealing with
crazy school board meetings this year. They've been dealing with
a lack of resources to deal with a pandemic, a
lack of resources like period in the classroom. There's been
(29:46):
so much crazy thrown at teachers. And you see a
character like Whitey where that's not his job description to
care about the relationship of these like two kids that
shouldn't have even gotten married the first place. You know,
he's there to coach basketball and teach pe and be
home by five o'clock. That's it. And he does so
(30:09):
much more, and he's so much more involved in the community,
and he's involved in the emotional development of these kids.
And to see him defended in a school board meeting,
I hope people everywhere bring that kind of energy for
their former teachers, for their current teachers, Like teachers are
so worthy of defense, and Karen does a great job
(30:30):
of of hitting those notes in this episode, and you
know what, I love too. She also hits the reality
of raising kids. She says, they don't deserve anything, They've
got to earn it. That's a person who deserves better
is Whitey And I was like, God, that's good, because
(30:51):
it's true. They're just boys playing sports like you either
win or you don't. Grow up and get over it.
But this man has earned you are respect and your
consideration and and your empathy as a leader for your boys.
And I just, oh, she played that so beautifully. I'll
tell you that's some good advice. I think a lot
(31:13):
of a lot of parents myths on a lot of
this upcoming generation. I see this a lot of disrespect
for adults. There's a lot of just I guess maybe
it's the fact that social media provides a space where
you feel like your voice is important. And uh, you know,
if you're a teenager and you're um, you haven't earned
(31:35):
a position of respect in any way to just be
able to kind of have access to hundreds of listening years,
and it's like it's got a kind of really mess
with your sense of the place, with your place in
the world, like what have you earned and what haven't
you earned? Um? And I think it's I think that's
really good advice that Karen's giving, Like you, Yes, you exist,
(32:00):
and we are glad that you're on this planet. Now
earn it. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think it's like when
you think about those theories of non attachment, like when
when you say that I don't know why this is
what my brain is choosing to word vomit, but here
we are and I have your captive ears, so deal
with it, um. But it makes me think about like studying,
(32:24):
you know, all sorts of faiths, as all of us
have discussed a lot, like so much of the theory
of Eastern philosophy is everything is sacred and nothing matters
like it's it's every being is precious and you're just
one of many like you are you you have God
in you. And also every single thing in the universe
(32:46):
is one and is the same and as equal and
and I love the duality of that, recognizing that you
are precious and also that you're one of many, and
they're both true. And I think when the scales get
tipped in direction when you don't think you're worthy. It
can be damaging. And when you think the world revolves
around you, you're an asshole. Like you've got to have
(33:08):
some balance on the scale. And and Dan is the
kind of person who thinks he's one of one and
his son is one of one, and it's toxic. And
Karen is kind of the person tipping the scale back
in the other direction, and and you need that balance, yea.
(33:29):
What she's doing two ways. She she combats his whole
you know, narrative about Whitey publicly, but then privately she's
giving advice to Nathan that is so final because she
says to him, She's like, you wanted her home, You
wanted her home more than anything in the whole wide world.
And here she is, what are you going to do
(33:51):
about it? Yeah? And you know, let's when you look
at like the relationship between between the two of him,
it's his dad's ex girlfriend, you know, like it's his
dad's potential Haley. You know how different would Dandy if
he'd stayed with Karen um the grounded girl, the girl
(34:15):
next door? Uh? Will he turn into his father if
he doesn't get back with Haley? Do you know what
I mean? Yes? It makes me mad. At Nathan, because
I'm looking at this going you got exactly like you
asked for. This is exactly what you wanted. That's right,
everything you wanted. She's here. Now she's here. And how
(34:38):
is it her fault that you couldn't hold out hope
long enough that you couldn't like just hang on and honestly,
what was it like? Weeks? Like what like three months?
A couple? In a few months, Yeah, gus, I'd be
I would be a kicked hornet's nest if someone put
me through that for three months, I'd be so mad
if I was in love. I don't know, I don't know.
(35:02):
I think the reason I love it so much not
obviously having to have played. I love that as a viewer.
To me, they're both right. Yeah, I'm like, Nathan, what
(35:25):
are you doing? She's finally back? And then I'm like,
but he's really hurt and she's going to have to
prove to him she's never going to hurt him again. Like,
I weirdly agree with them both, and I think that's
why we feel so invested in them as a couple,
because you you really root for them both, even when
the things you're rooting for sometimes could be painted as
(35:48):
opposing feelings. I'm very impatient with Nathan. I'm going to
say it because there is, because you know she loves
There is a deep peyton sawyer vein in me. And
having had so much death, right, the thing that is
just the constant drum beat in my head is you're
(36:11):
gonna die. You're gonna die, everyone's gonna die. We get
this much time. Why the funk are you wasting it?
Don't waste A sixteen year old doesn't know that. Okay,
well here's here's a hill to come in and ruin
it for your kids. You get this much time, don't
spend it sulking, don't spend it choosing misery. You know,
(36:36):
it's so true. It's hard to see that when you're young.
It's really hard to see it. It feels like you
have so much more time. Yeah, and it can often
be a first big loss that right sizes your brain
about what time means. I remember having like this major
so dumb. The two of us now, even when we
(36:57):
think about it, are like, wow, stupid major two rams
just butting heads conflict with one of my best friends
from college, and we were both just like petulant, you know,
twenty some things in our corners, being like you apologize first, No,
you apologize first, like we were just so mad, and
then her dad died and it lit nothing mattered. I
(37:22):
got on a plane out of Wilmington's on the first
flight out on Saturday morning and was at her house
and I was like, we can cry or we can
hit each other. I don't really give what do you need?
I brought lunch, like and it was over, Like our
fight was over, and it it seemed so important four
days before. And we've never spoken of it since, you know,
(37:45):
other than to make fun of each other for being
stupid like we it really does. I think sometimes when
you're young, take like that emotional car crash moment to
to just readjust all those things in your brain. Yeah,
in practice takes practice, like earnestly being able to um
(38:08):
address things and decide what's important. When you're a kid,
you don't know how to decide what's important, Like is
the kiss between Haley and Chris Keller are important? Or
is it the tour that's important? Like being able to
pinpoint things is something that takes practice, but you have
to want to do You have to want to do
(38:29):
that and ority takes practice like being willing to admit
that the real thing when anytime there's a fight between
two people is that you're both kind of right and
you're both kind of wrong. Yeah, takes practice being like, yeah,
here's what I can own and I love you. Here
(38:50):
we are theory about Nathan right now, which is I'm
wondering if you know, part of the reason why he
was drawn to Haley was the safety of it that
she was so stable and he grew up in such
an unstable environment that there was something that was really
stable about her that he put on his own pedestal
of this is going to save me. Her stability is
(39:12):
going to save me. And when she decided to bail
on her own stability because she needed to go, you know,
check other things out for herself, it turned him upside
down inside out because he didn't her stability was what
he was relying on. He didn't have any of his own.
That feels like, this isn't what I bought eggs and
(39:36):
you gave me cheese. What am I gonna do with that?
You know? I mean that was and I picked someone
not like my mom who was always leaving, and then
you left, So no wonder their marriage was supposed to
be the opposite of Dan and Deb's marriage, and then
suddenly they were in a Dan and Deb marriage. In
(39:59):
his mind, I'm not saying yes, thank you, not in reality,
but to him, he's going, well, she's gone all the
time and doesn't pick up my phone calls, and I'm
becoming this bitter, angry man. So no Wonder, them inside
him is going, oh, I'm not doing this anymore. I'm
not I'm never going to do this again. And so
no Wonder he's got walls up with her. Yeah, I
(40:19):
mean getting it. I'm getting it. And you know what
I loved because, yeah, man, I I think I see
so much of where Nathan comes from because of what
Brooke was going through and because you know me as
Sophia sees what both Nathan and Brooke we're going through.
I loved that we got that scene in the apartment
(40:42):
I forgot, Like I knew we had great scenes in
their Joy, but that moment for Haley and Brooke when
Haley is mad and like throwing Aundrey on the bed
and it's all about the scrunches and the things, because
Brooke is just like masking, deflecting and I'm having fun.
Oh she being the party. Girl is being the party yeah,
(41:07):
Oh my god, mass um. And it was so interesting
watching us because I watched Brooks see that Haley was
having a hard time and she was like, you gotta
get on my train, come here through. I threw your
arms over my and and that line this is where
(41:29):
it comes from. That. I loved it. Sometimes people play
hard to get because they need to know the other
person's feelings were real. Yeah, and I'm admitting to you
that I know that's what Nathan is doing because it's
what I'm doing, that's what you're doing it. That was
such a beautiful scene. I love Brooks like mom energy
around everybody right now. She's just stepping up and being like,
(41:52):
all right, listen, everybody around here needs moms. I'm gonna
do it, and I'm gonna have my phone fun on
the side. But also she's taking care of her herself.
She's taking a little taking care of the little girl
inside of herself, making sure that all the ducks are
in a row before she launches herself into another, you know,
open heart situation with a guy. But I also really
loved Lucas decorating her locker a little romantic things that
(42:16):
are like, I love you, I'm here, I'm going to
do all the little things for you too. It's not
just the grand sweeping gestures. You know. That was really sweet.
It was really sweet. Guys. I have been at the
butt end of all of the Brook Lucas fan base
like forever, like Peyton's worst Brooke and Lucas forever forever,
(42:37):
and I guess I've always just had to defend myself
so could never really just sit back and watch the
Brooke and Lucas of it all. I totally get it.
I totally totally get it. I can see why you're
frustrated with Peyton, because there is a real magic to
Brooke and Lucas, and this is some cleverness that the
(43:02):
both of them exhibit, and they challenge each other, and
they're flirty and they're cute with each other, and they're
figuring out at the same time. You know, Brook doesn't
know how to say what she wants, Lucas doesn't really
know how to say what she wants, and they're just
kind of tiptoeing to that line. It's really fun to watch.
(43:25):
And the scene in the apartment where he's trying to
get you to be his like girlfriend, conlusive girlfriend, and
you're trying to just like make out something you wanted.
You've got something he wanted. It's a very cute version
of a duel. Yes, that's a perfect scene. It's perfect. Yeah.
(43:47):
I loved it, and I love that they that they
wrote him leaving and me being so surprised. You know,
the comedy was great. And it's funny that you say that, Hillary,
because as you were saying that, I was like, oh
my god, this is how I feel because I've i
which guy's We've talked about this and we'll talk about
it forever. It doesn't make any sense to attack your
(44:08):
two favorite girlfriends for being the same guy's girlfriend. At
some point, Like, I've been on the on the but
end of the of the Lucas and Peyton fans for
so long that I've leaned so hard into being like, yeah,
Lucas and like Lucas and Payton are awesome. I don't
know any complaints about Lucas and Payton. I've so been
(44:29):
like I'm on the endgame team, leave me out of this,
and I'm like, oh no, this was a good Like
this was a cute on screen relationship. This was a
This was a really good teenage experience for two people
to learn about hurt and honesty and trying again and integrity,
(44:50):
And I get why people like it. Yeah, they're growing,
you know what I mean. It's like, you know how
sometimes w we enter into relationships the one person is like, oh,
I'm going to be the pillar and you can lean
on me and I'll take care of you. Brooke and
Lucas are really figuring it out like together, and they're
(45:14):
dealing with like the stuff that's very teenage. You know.
That's what I was going to say, Kid Stepan are
doing like grown up, which isn't necessarily relatable to everyone.
But the flirty thing of like literally all I want
you to do is kiss my neck right now, and
you're making it weird. You're making a weird Yeah. And
(45:35):
I think what's interesting is because Peyton for so long
was dealing with such adult things, Lucas could be his
most mature intellectual Why well no, But so many people
were like, that's real, But I think what's it's all real?
(45:55):
But Lucas and Brooke are in a very teenage in
a experience together, and Lucas and Peyton had these very
like deep feeling, grown up experiences together, the bonding, but
it's it's like, look, it's just experience, I smash and
so it's so it's interesting to realize, like, oh yes,
(46:19):
I would bet you that if you know the fans
looked inward, they would say, oh yeah, I relate to
the teenage thing, like that's my ideal film versus I
wanted the ideal adult you know, here's my thing. Well,
just respond to what they respond to. Do you think
that the younger fan base is like more attracted to
that deep, grown up emotional I'm going to hold your
(46:41):
hand thing, and then like older people are looking at
the fun that I wonder. I'm so happy to not
see Lucas being creepy anymore because he was so creepy
with Peyton. Remember the first season how we were like
take off. Speaking of creepy, when you start dating, you
(47:04):
are a creep you just are you mess up hence mouth,
hence mouth being oh he just can't rein it in.
I know, we all become stalkers when we start dating.
Every We're you know, in our phone, stocking people on
their on their social media, just checking up on everyone,
(47:25):
calling friends and we're heartbroken. What else is he gonna do? Well? Yeah,
by the way, can you imagine if we've been in
our twenties dating with Instagram? I can't imagine. So it's
it's cute to realize that mouth having his little podcast.
It's like kind of the first space where someone could
(47:46):
vent inappropriately in public, where now you see people like
posting stuff about their ex is online and you're like, oh,
just don't it's a bare this later, you just don't,
don't do it. Yeah, I um. I as a fan
of the show, I'm really feeling Brooke and Lucas this
episode and the teenage stuff. I just I think I
(48:09):
think it's the light part of the episode and we're
dealing with so much heavy stuff. Like Dan's out of
his mind with the dastard. He's a full sociopath. He
shows up at the beach party. He like last episode,
he was like on the beach when Lucas was on
the beach, just having a run in the morning. Then
he's let the beach party, breaking a glass in his hand, which,
(48:31):
by the way, a huge whiskey tumbler. Breaking it in
your hand, come on. Then and then he's like showing
up ed White He's office, and he's showing up at
the gym and he's just everyone like, it must be
Paren's cafe to cafe He's I mean, he's just wandering
around all day long looking for ways to go be
(48:52):
an asshole. How exhausting is that? We're back to the
to the Dan Scott who like metaphorically has trackers on
everybody's carse like, how do you know where all these
people are? You're a creep? And he just he's just
creeping around town being scary. And then he chokes his child.
And by the way, I couldn't believe Hillary, he palmed
(49:13):
your forehead and shoved you backwards by your face. Okay,
can we talk about that? You guys talk about it.
We weren't there to tell us everything. I hated it.
I hated it so in the gym because any time
a fight scene has to go on for so long
(49:34):
that an actor in the scene can get all of
their dastardly exposition out, it looks fake because that's not
how fights work in real life. Not that I fight,
or maybe I know, but Peyton, Peyton is scrappy. She
would have come back to the Peyton and Nikki got
into a fight in season one, Like Peyton has already
(49:56):
been in physical altercations on this show, so we know
that she was to like pull the hair, paunch the neck,
like do the things. Yeah, And when a scene is
designed for the camera and for the lines instead of
for the intention of the scene, it doesn't work. And
(50:18):
so they really wanted to get that three sixty shot
of a steadicam going all the way around us while
Dan was like, you know, stopping off whatever he's doing.
But what that meant is that I was only allowed
to hold onto Paul's arm and kind of like struggle
and like quit it, Mr, you're getting slapping him in
(50:39):
the face, Like yeah, I would have had fingernails in
his eyeballs and in his ears and like ripping chunks
of hair while he's choking a child, you know, Chad
and his tongue hanging out of his mouth because he's
supposed to be getting choked and Painte's just like quit it,
just stop it, you make You're right. The scene was
(51:02):
so long for her Dan's exposition that I literally had
the thought, because the camera was on that side of
his face, I go, why didn't the director let Hillary
scratch his face, slap his face, like, try to poke
him in the eyes. Like it was so strange. And
I just looked on our breakdown And I don't mean
this critically, it just is interesting to your point. It's
(51:23):
designed for camera. This episode is another episode directed by
Billy Dixon, who we love, but he was our DP,
and so he's thinking, I want to do this circular shot.
Don't block the shot. But what it does is it
suspends the belief in the fight because you're like, well,
there's a third person there, why can't I see her? Yeah,
(51:44):
it's a tricky line to walk. As actors. It's important
that we you know, when we show up, we have
to consider all these things and we have to speak
up and say this. I'm I mean, I know I
say this a lot on sets, but I'll get to
set and we'll still blocking something and I'm like, this
doesn't make sense, and here's all the reasons why. And
then the DP and the director and you know, the
(52:07):
a D. Everybody's like, oh gods, again, it's going to
take longer or the worst. But I'm like, but it's
not gonna be believable. Do you want it to look
like ship or do you want people to actually believe
the story. What do you want? And for me too,
I am such a people pleaser that it is so
much harder for me to say I don't like your
(52:27):
idea to someone who I really love, you know, like
I and like, it's not like he was going to
leave our show and go away, you know, like he
was going to go back to being DP the next episode,
and so I couldn't um I like him. I'm not
going to tell him I think your shots dumb. Not
(52:48):
everybody has great ideas all the time. It's okay, Like
even the best people have dumb ideas. Sometimes, you know,
you have to try him and see if it works.
This scene didn't do it for me. Twenty years later,
I'm still like, Goad, I should have that, should have does.
What's also tricky is sometimes you have a feeling you're
going I should be hitting him, and they're going, no,
it looks great on camera, yeah, and we didn't see it,
(53:09):
and you're like, oh man, you know, every people have
different beliefs in what makes something great. And I think
for us, we're obviously watching this show as actors, going yeah,
but you would have slapped him. But it's like you're
going on, but my face is going to be on
the camp, Like nobody's going to be looking at anything
except my face. And if you put me in a
(53:30):
position where I look dumb because I can't sell the
scene because the camera is doing something that's inhibiting my
ability to do a good job, then I look dumb.
At the end of the day, I'm the one that
looks dumb. So yeah, it's hard. I just want to
hear you say that to a director. I'm the one
who looks dumb. Mr. I'm just so confused about some
(53:53):
of the adulating in this episode because okay, um, when
there is an arson and you know, like Dan's flipping
through this arson report, there would be an investigation and
there would be people like constantly at the site and
like digging into Dan's life. Luke, who would want to
kill you? They would be the ones questioning Karen like
(54:15):
there's zero police presence around this major crime. That's a
major crime. Yeah. The other thing is Peyton's dad is
finally home. They have this like lovely little heart to heart,
but then she doesn't tell them that her ex boyfriend's
dad just like face palmed her like that that's something
(54:36):
that you tell your mom and dad like I was
physically assaulted by an adult today. The choking and like,
you know, almost watching your ex boyfriend slash really good friend,
like almost die in front of you, and the adrenaline
of trying to stop that from happening. You wouldn't just
go home and be like, I'm gonna go sit and
watch traffic lights for a while. Man, I just really
need to what do we do? Take a load off?
(54:58):
I mean, it isn't a ten did murder? Like? Dan's
mad that someone tried to murder him, so then he
tried to murder someone to make up for it. It's
very insane. This you too creepy? Yeah, I don't like it, Sam,
(55:18):
do better, Do better? Guys, this was a shocked full episode.
There was so much stuff what we missed. I can't.
Can we end on a high note because I know
we have a lot to say about Dan that's negative
because he's being a sociopath, so it's warranted. But guys,
when not a surf kicks in at the end and
(55:38):
always love started, Oh my god, it made my heart
explode and over you guys putting your new predictions in
for the first time, you did on the first day
of school instead of before, and everyone just like really
digging into their feelings and and learning to express That's song.
(56:00):
It's like, I feel it in my bones. It makes
me so happy. We're growing from Bree Brian Greenberg. If
Brian Greenberg never left the show, do you think Jake
(56:20):
and Peyton would have been endgame? I do? Do you do? Yeah?
I do? Because the chemistry was so strong. I mean,
I don't. I don't know. You think they were so
committed to the Peyton and Lucas I think, yeah, I
just don't know. There's so much about Peyton that made
(56:43):
sense to me as a kid that was like, no,
she wants to be with Luke. That's who, you know,
was the first person that like called her bluff, you know,
because before then she was just a cheerleader and Dayton
basketball player and everybody just went with it. And he
was the first one that was like, you're miserable, um,
And so I unders down that, and then I also
understand like Peyton wanting to have a family with Jake
(57:04):
because it's what she always wanted, and she gets to
kind of buy into this instant thing. I don't know,
there's a lone wolf quality to Peyton that I don't
know will ever fully be end game with anyone. Is
that to say she's very Joe March. She's very Joe March.
There's a quality, That's what I mean. There's a thing
(57:27):
about you know with Joe from Little Women like if yeah,
when you when you read Little Women and you you
get to know Joe and you want her so badly
to be with Lorie because of the young romance and
it's so exciting. But there is something that does make
sense about her in the end ending up with this
professor who's older and she's known for a long time,
(57:51):
and there's a piece there where he gives her the
space to just completely be herself in her own world.
They have a partnership. It's not a wild, passionate romp
all the time, but there is a maturity and a
and a camaraderie companionship there that that's something I could
see for Peyton down the line. That wasn't something where
(58:11):
she gets to be fully herself, fully independent, fully that
lone wolf, but also having a partner who appreciates that
nears her dad relationship where she's got this person who
loves her so much and it is totally hands off.
You know. There's so much codependence on our show that
I sometimes worry about romanticizing that. Um And yeah, me too.
(58:35):
You know what, though, I guess perhaps as our characters
got older and we did the time jump, that was
the thing I leaned into as a viewer, like a reader,
an observer or whatever, because we obviously didn't see all
the episodes, but we read them. Um. I think the
thing that I really connected with Peyton and Lucas was
that kind of energy. Writers are often solitary people. They
(58:59):
have to go away, they have to write, they have
to be isolated, and and Lucas was a quieter character,
and so I think just emotionally, as we got older, Yeah,
so many of our scenes did get very codependent. Everything
was about the rolls and the feelings for all and
(59:20):
not just you guys. But I think, like in my
imagination of the ways our characters lived their lives, like
Brooke Davis did work in groups very often. She might
sketch up late at night alone, but like she worked
with teams and did things. And I always envisioned like
(59:41):
Peyton working in the studio and Lucas working in his
little office or in the window with the computer, Like
I saw these two solitary creatives coexisting and maybe that's why. Yeah, yeah,
are we spending a wheel? It's spin a wheel. Most
(01:00:02):
guys get nerves sometimes when we start telling stories, and
then I start to be like, I can't really just
openly talk. I have to couch this in some mystery.
And then I'm like, oh man, what am I even saying?
I should just stop talking? You know what, life is short.
And also there's a part of me that really believes
that that's that quote. That's like I have to find it.
(01:00:25):
But it's basically like, if people didn't want you own
your own ship, you own your ship. If somebody did
something horrible to you, it's that's an experience that you
had and you wanted to speak treated you better. They
should have treated you better. That's so much better. Yeah,
that's what I went meant to say. That's the one
I like that. Guys, we have a we have a
winner of the wheel and this week's oh my god,
(01:00:47):
this is actually insane. This week's wheel says who's most
likely to be a drama queen? I mean, okay, on
the most likely I mean mouth is probably being a
very big drama queen. I think the biggest drama queen
(01:01:08):
of all though, is Dan Scott. I just cannot even
with the addicted to drama it is. He loves in
to a room without saying something absurd. It's yeah, yeah,
he should be on Real Housewives of who cares like
Real Housewives or whatever. But he's got tree Hill. Yeah,
(01:01:29):
he's got strong real housewife energy, the new iteration of
tree Hill. There's got to be like it's all Housewives
and like Dan Scott love that if he hadn't died
in real life, I'm here for if we had to
pick an actress from any other team drama that we
would want to be like an honorary drama queen in
real life. Carrie Russell, you love God, such a girl.
(01:01:56):
Crush on her? Yeah, yeah, I love her. I'm going
Kelly Copowski, Tiffany Evertheson, she is forever drama queen. She's
so wonderful. Yeah, yeah, she was a good I mean yeah,
both of them need to come on the show. I'd also, man,
I'd love for Michelle Williams. Oh my god, I just
(01:02:18):
love her. I love her in her little pixie cut,
and I want to talk to her about making movies
and also about Wilmington's but we all end all Queen
Drama Queen Sally Field, Oh my god, the best crier
on television Icon Sally Field. That the original teen queen.
(01:02:41):
She was Gidget. That's right, guys, she's had the longest
career like anybody on the planet. I think let's get
Sally Field on the podcast. My god, would I would die? Okay?
Are we ready for that? Okay, love you guys, Thank you.
Come back next week. The next episode is season three
(01:03:03):
episode for an attempt to tip the scales. I can't
wait to see you soon by see you next week. Hey,
thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.
You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens
O t H or email us at Drama Queens at
I Heart radio dot com. See you next time. We
(01:03:27):
are all about that high school drama. Girl Drama Girl,
all about them high school queens. We'll take you for
a ride at our comic Girl Cheering for the right
Drama Queens draw up girl Fashion, but you'll tough, girl.
You can sit with us Girl Drama Queens Drama Queens
Drama Queen's Drama, Drama, Queen's Drama, Queens
Hosts And Creators
Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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