Work in Progress: Jason George

Onscreen, he's known for saving lives as Ben Warren on Station 19 and Grey's Anatomy. Offscreen, he's making a real difference as the chair of SAG-AFTRA's Diversity Advisory Committee and as an advocate for gun safety.

Actor Jason George joins his 'fellow circus performer' Sophia for an insightful chat about how his upbringing led to his activism and union work, being in the negotiating room when the actors went on strike, saying an emotional goodbye to Station 19, and returning to Grey's!

Jason also talks about his new passion project - flipping the script on how guns are portrayed in the media and making gun safety cool. To learn more about Hollywood, Health & Society's 'Trigger Warning: Gun Guidelines for the Media' in collaboration with Brady, the nation's oldest gun violence prevention group, visit hollywoodhealthandsociety.org. 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
and happy week to all my whip smarties out there.
I'm really really looking forward to today's interview. I'm going

(00:23):
to sit down with a fellow circus performer, which is
what so many of us in the industry affectionately call
the performers in the sag after Union. Today's guest is
none other than actor Jason George. You likely know him
from playing Miranda Bailey's husband, doctor Ben Warren on Grey's
Anatomy and Station nineteen. Jason is an absolutely incredible human

(00:47):
off screen as well as the wonderful characters that he
plays on screen, and today I'm going to talk to
him about discovering his true calling, having grown up a
military kid on the East Coast, how his upbringing led
him to get really active within our own union, advocating
for better protection for workers, and his latest and deepest

(01:11):
passion project, working to help solve the gun violence crisis
in America. Jason is a spokesperson working to change the
way that guns are portrayed in the media. A year ago,
Hollywood Health and Society at the USC and and Berg
Norman Lear Center released a really impactful and significant studies
surrounding guns in the media, and based on that study,

(01:33):
HHS has teamed up with Brady, the nation's oldest gun
violence prevention organization, to raise awareness around this incredibly important topic,
and Jason is helping lead the charge with Brady, HHS,
every Town and Mom's Demand. He is an incredibly inspiring
human someone I feel really lucky to have as a

(01:53):
peer in my industry, both in my day job and
in my activism work. And I can't wait for you
all to hear from enjoy. Hey, hi, Jason, how are
you good?

Speaker 2 (02:14):
How are you feeling?

Speaker 3 (02:15):
I'm well?

Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thanks? Where do I Where do I find you today?
Where are you in the world?

Speaker 3 (02:23):
I am back in the studio city, Los Angeles.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
I'm back home. We were running around Italy for.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
A few weeks.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, it's my wife and I was a twenty fifth
wedding anniversary.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
So oh my goodness.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
Good Italy is our spot, you know.

Speaker 3 (02:43):
We this is like we've been itly a bunch of
times and taking a cake a bunch of times.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, well that's so fun. I look forward to that,
like sort of all my friends are in the range
where everybody's kids are too little to do international travel.
But when I see my friends who have like kids
that are ten to twelve or that are teenagers and
they're bopping around, I'm like, God, that would be so
cool to get to show them the world.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
It's the whole point. It is literally the I mean
the funny part is that, like, you know, we have
a twenty year old son, and that we have twins
that are sixteen year olds.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
And when they were born we were buried.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
So like like all of your friends who have little
kids and like do only certain things, like you know,
they go to like going to the local restaurant is
a big outing. Yeah that for like three years, three
years we were just on like life. If you walk
slowly in front of my house, I just handed you
a kid.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah I need to know you just hold hold this
for a second.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, I mean, oh my goodness. Okay, So I love
I love the tangential parenting moment because it actually, in
a really interesting way, points back to the thing I
normally like to ask people first, which is about yourself
as a child, because like, look me as the person

(04:02):
interviewing you. So many of the folks who are going
to listen to this episode, like, we know, we know
you as grown up Jason George, we know you from work,
like you you've been our beloved Ben for fourteen years,
like og Grays fan over here. You know you carried
him onto other shows. Like it's so easy to think
you know someone because you have observed their body of work, right,

(04:25):
And so I'm curious, especially because you're a dad, if
from this point in your life, if you were to
hang out with your eight year old self, like, would
you like him? What was he into? Did he know
he was going to be an artist? Like, like, do
you see how that little boy became the man you
are today? Or has it all sort of happened, you know,

(04:47):
by by miracle and happenstance?

Speaker 3 (04:50):
Now? Is you know? Is that that's a that's a
good question. That is a good first question that would
have had somebody. Could I have seen him as a artists? Yeah?
I was a goofy I was a goofy show off,
uh smart ality little kid. But at the same time,

(05:11):
I'm I'm the middle child and one of three boys,
and so I was also you know, all of the
I liked all I believe in all of the good
stuff that psychiatrists say about middle kids like I got
to be the baby for four years and then I
got to be the big brother, and so, you know,
and so I'm I I. Uh I was a rule

(05:33):
follower on the surface, like I was the good kid
as far as you could see. Uh I was. And
I was in fact a good hearted kid. We were
never trying to damage anything. But and my older brother
is part of the reason for this. We were mischievous kids.
We were really mischievous kids, and so had.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
A sense of humor.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Oh, the sense of humor was like huge in my house.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
It was there. The whole thing was you know, I mean,
like we you know, my mom and my mom and
dad split up, you know, and it was on a
low train, the slowest rolling divorce of all time, like
over the course of like ten years and just slowly.
My dad was like less and less around it, and
he was like never around.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
But like you know, money troubles and everything like that.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Mom was always the you know, like you know the
phrase rob Peter to pay Paul. It's like I should
have like a tattoo that says that phrase, because that
was like my mom's whole phrase. And she would just
lap because she's like better than crying, I mean, and
that was her whole take. So our whole perspective on
life from birth was just like, hey man, you know

(06:37):
it's it's it can it can always be worse, So
you know, so enjoy wherever you're at, even if today's
pretty crappy, you know, you know, laugh about it, find
somebody and find something, find something to just howeverasil it is.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
If you enjoy or whatever you're on grade, it's danced
out and that sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (06:56):
But I mean, it's you know, and then my mother,
uh and my dad actually both loved music, and that's
what it thinks. So it was like there was always
music playing in the house and uh, and there was
a that joy in the middle of whatever was going on.
I mean, so that's kind of like how I lived,
Like I'm always I'm always going to be good where

(07:18):
I'm at, And even as a kid, that was kind
of the thing, like.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Whatever group you dropped me in, I'd find a way
to hang.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
I mean, I was I was just smart enough to
hang with the smart kids, just cool enough to hang
to like get into the cool kid party. I'm never
the leader of any of these groups. I can just
just hang with them, you know. And I was, I
was a geek, but uh but at the end of
the day, I'm I'm you know, the nerd in me
is real. You know that age you talk about eight

(07:47):
year old me, that's around the time that I discovered
comic books and all that stuff. Uh, and the imagination
blew wide open. And it was like Martin Luther King.
Every kid did their book report back then on you know,
a booker Team Washington or you know.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
And so like I had this dream of, like, you.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Know, being one of those people who argue in your
thirdod Marshal, like arguing a case. And I mean like
I thought, like being that kind of smart person who
actually made change in the world, that'd be cool. So
that was the plan and that was the goal. Uh.
But you always saw this kind of creative bent underneath
it that like, but no nobody does it. I'm from

(08:29):
a military town. I mean where I grew up is
you know, Virginia Beach. Virginia is the largest naval base
in the world. So like, yeah, and all my friends,
all of my parents, my dad was navy. Like, you know,
arts was not a thing that people did for a living.
You know, you love, you know, music is cool and
everything like that, but that's other people do all that
kind of stuff, you know, and I think it's not

(08:50):
even a thing that was like, you know so but uh,
you know, but second grade play, I robbed the line
gotta laugh, you know, and it's stuck. It's stuck in
the back of the brain.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
We'll be back in just a minute after a few
words from our favorite sponsors. So then when you fast
forward to, you know, joining a show like Gray's in
twenty ten, did that feel intimidating? Were you excited? Had
you watched the show before?

Speaker 3 (09:24):
Like, yeah, yeah, I mean look, I mean my wife
and I when we work out, we work out separately,
and she she will tend to watch her you know,
quote unquote chick flicks, and I'll watch like just explosion
after explosion.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
This is back in the day. Pandemic changed her. Now
she's all blood and guts. Now she's like.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Vikings and like, you know, yeah, apocalyptic, Like she's a
whole different persons of the pandemic. And I'm like, you changed.
As I clutch the pearls and look at her, I'm like,
you know, sleeping with one eye open. But she would watch,
you know, in the role was if whatever you're watching
turn out to the really good, like the chick Flick
turned out to be when Harry met Sally, stop it,
bring it in, we'll watch it together, because now it's

(10:06):
now it's Cinela, Now it's I mean or whatever. A
friend of hers gave the DVD set of Gray's Anatomy
and she got like two episodes and stopped it, came
in and said you should watch this with me.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
And that was probably around.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
Season three or four or something like that, and so
she and I started watching it, and I was like,
this is dope. This is most men, Like you'd be
surprised how many men totally have the fan reaction and
then try and play it off like it's because why
watch it my girlfriend a wife?

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh yeah, honey, try being on One Tree Hill. It's
the same thing.

Speaker 3 (10:46):
One hundred percent right, And you're like, bruh, if you
knew my character name, you were not just watching, because.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Yeah, you're invested. My favorite vibe is always, like you know,
being on location somewhere, everybody goes out for beers, like
Friday night after you wrap, and there's always some guy
in a bar that's like, oh, I know you, my
girlfriend loves your show. And then I can tell when
he's had like three or four beers and he's like
when Brooke couldn't have a baby. I was that was
just like really heavy and it really made me understand

(11:13):
what women go through. And I'm like, yeah, your girlfriend
loves the show.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
I guess right, get.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Just one or two beers. Oh, you know an occasion guy,
he'll be like, you know who just owned it? Yeah,
I kind of thing. But I was out to dinner
with a friend the other day and this is.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
Here in Los Angeles, and nobody in Los Angeles cares right,
or at least you're supposed to play it off like
you don't.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I don't know what happened to dude.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
He stopped, but Grace is one of those shows that
like will pierce that veil, and like dude was like
he was like, came over to the table, just interrupted.
I don't mean to interrupt, and you know, listen, can't
get a photo, you know, and he was like, can
I get a photo for my wife was a huge
fan of the show and everything like that, don't you know.
Oh boy got in there right next to me as
he did the selfie the whole night.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
And I was like, right right, it's freet we are
men of action.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
Lies.

Speaker 1 (11:59):
Yes, that's so sweet, but.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, but I really wanted to. So I was.

Speaker 3 (12:03):
I was a big fan of the show before I
ever did it, And so I've been in the game
for a minute before that. I've done like, you know,
a bunch of series, and it'd been a while since
i'd been nervous on a set. And that first day,
maybe two days, I was like, I'll screw this up.
And it was just a guest spot. It was literally
just a guest spot. It was only oh, Ben was

(12:25):
supposed to do like three four episodes and then like
do Miranda dirty, like you know, cheating her, like be
a player, and then like be out like break her
heart is what I understand the storyline was supposed to be.
I think they did that storyline with I think they
pulled that storyline a little bit later on with with
Joe Camilla's character. Okay, I think they did it a

(12:48):
little bit later on with her character. And but for
whatever reason, Shanda, god bless her, you know, said put.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
That ride for a minute.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Let's not let's not end that just yet, and that
was even when like, uh, because I had done a
pilot for Shonda that that didn't go and that was
my introduction into shondaaland got a great relationship with and
everything like that. And then they offered me the guest
spot to come and play Ben and I was like, yeah,
I just want to come through the show.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
I just want to hang out.

Speaker 3 (13:21):
And I was like but I also knew like the
show at that point even had a history of like
you start as a guest star, maybe you can stick
around for a minute, but you know, you assume, you know,
we're actors. You know, you're like, this is just gonna
this is this is the gate. You show up, you
join the circus for the day, and then you go
home and do your thing well.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
And even when you're supposed to show up, maybe it's
not going to happen. Like I was supposed to start
a new project on Tuesday, and they were like, so
we've lost the insurance on our main location and can
you just stay in New York for a while. And
I'm sit tight, Sit tight, and you're like, gall it,
it's the circus. It's an industry, and it's it's technical

(14:00):
and it's really well scheduled. And then it's also just
like you're at the mercy of nonsense.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
A lot of moving parts we are, Cardiff. I mean like,
you know, hey, man, we're not doing the show tonight.
I mean, we're not doing the show tonight.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Man.

Speaker 3 (14:14):
You know, things get you know, any day, things can
get canceled, that sort of thing. You know, So it's, uh,
it's it's all that, but uh, but you know, it's stuck.
It's even when I was doing other shows, they didn't
move me off. I mean I did a because when
I guest starred, I then did a pilot, uh another
pilot for her that took and it was a series

(14:36):
that we did for like six months in Hawaii, and
and the fact they let me and again the power
of having really good people who also happen to be
tremendously powerful in the industry, you know, and you know,
so they didn't eliminate my character, and I kept guest starting.
So I would literally fly from Hawaii, fly back to
like do a couple of episodes, you do like a
couple of days on Grays, and then like go back.

(14:58):
So that's amazing.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
It was real break. It was an absolute blessing.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I also love when you've got people in power that
don't kind of weaponize their ego. You know, so often
you hear, well, once you're on a show, they're going
to own you. Like they've got you. They'll never let
you work on something else. And I think like the
ripple effect of Shanda saying no, you will absolutely be
on these two projects for me, and we're not going

(15:23):
to give up a storyline just because good things are
happening for you as a performer. You know. Now you
cut to I mean the year that like Reese and
Carrie Washington did little fires everywhere while Reese and Nicole
Kidman and you know, Zoe Kravitz were doing big little lies,

(15:44):
and it's like you could actually just go do the
good work if you'd be willing to not say, well,
if you're on one show, you can't be on this one.
It's so dumb.

Speaker 2 (15:53):
Well, it's so dumb.

Speaker 3 (15:54):
And also the business that you and I have been
here for a minute, the business is totally different than
it was, and social media changed it. I mean, you
know better than anybody, but it's you know, the cross planization.
It's like, you know, I'll bring the audience from that
thing over to this thing and vice versa, like let's
rise and tide floats all boats.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
So let's float some boats.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
People, Let's get out there, let's let's go. Let a
thoroughbred run. And so that mentality, I suppose, the scarcy,
the mentality of uh, you're you're you know, I don't
share my toys and you want to buy toys. It's hey,
everybody go have fun. I mean, I remember saying with
Betsy Beers, who's a Shanda's producing partner, if you see Sean,

(16:35):
you know, produce by Shonda Rhymes, you'll see produce by
Betsy beersh She's a I joke with you. I jokingly
say that, you know, she's the ginger Rogers to Shonda
spread as fare makes the whole thing. Where Betsy was like,
we believe in building a company, an old school theater
company and keeping everybody happy. They're like if you're if

(16:56):
you're happy, you're gonna work harder and better. And that's
sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
And that was the truth. Like I flew home, they
they on off the map.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
When I was shooting in Hawaii, in addition to coming
back to occasionally shoot Grace, I tried to turn down
off the bat, you know, and at the time I
was just moving into that, like, you know, offer only
blah blah blah thah. I wasn't quite there, and so
like they were like, I've done the pilot for Shonda.
I get They'd offer me the guest spot to play
Ben and then they were like, so Shanda wants you

(17:25):
to come in and A well, no, the network wants
you to come in an audition for the Shanda's New show.

Speaker 2 (17:29):
And I was like cool.

Speaker 3 (17:31):
I was super excited and then found I had shot
in Hawaii and my oldest kid was in first grade,
twins just started preschool. I was like, Dad needs to me,
you know, military kid knows. I was like, no, I'm
gonna big ill. You're not gonna forget my face. I
need to be home. I can't do it. So I
turned down the audition. They said, they want you to
come in and test for can't do it, they said,
And finally was like, they're straight off me there. I

(17:51):
was like, I can't do and finally like Shonda called
me and goes what the hell?

Speaker 2 (17:56):
And I was like cause I was like, you know.

Speaker 3 (17:58):
The whole time, I was like, if I go in
with thelationship, I have now and looking at this role,
I can do this role, I can kill this role,
and it's exactly the kind of thing I want to do.
And then they wrote the show so that like I
had three day weekends, at least three day weekends, like
at least three weekends a month. That's he was like,
we're gonna screw it up once or twice, but we'll
basically get you home three weekends out of the month
for like a long weekend you can do the family thing.

(18:20):
And I was like, that can work for my family thing.
And the whole thing was they were like and by
the way, if you watch the show, you'll never notice
that the characters been I didn't even realize that. Like
Audie McDonald, they did the same thing for her on
private practice, which is why they were like, no, that's
a doable thing. So she could get home there at
the time, her kid was in New York, you know.
So it was like having powerful people who, like you said,

(18:40):
don't weaponize your ego. And in fact, just because the
natural inclination is to say no to anybody in this town,
because no means even when yes is obviously the right answer, yes,
it's creatively right Yes, gets you more money, But yes
means you got to learn new stuff. Yes means that
we've got to you know, this thing's a week dip.
No means things stay exactly the way they are. I

(19:01):
don't have to rethink. I don't have to learn anything new.
I don't have to change anything that I've been doing
all along. But the same is also boring. Is a
reason why we're in this business because we didn't want
to sit behind the desk. We want to, like, you know,
we want to explore new stuff. We want to get
out there. Even you're doing the same job, every day
is way different. I mean, so today we're going to
blow something up. Today, you're going to reach into a

(19:22):
woman's something can pull her baby out. You're gonna, you know,
something insane is going to happen today. So uh yeah.
So they when they say trying to find a way
to make Yes work and then trying to went and
wrote the book, her book.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
You know, Year of Yes, And I was like, so
she's just you know, she inspired.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Mese on multiple levels. And I think that she responded
to the fact that I was actually trying to take
care of my family.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
Yes, uh, And I think that's one of the things
that like work for her.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
So it's that, I mean, she has a thing at
the end of her email that says, uh, if you're
she used to have it, I'm trying to remember if
she still has it. It's that if you were reading
this email after send clock at night, maybe go be
with your people. Yeah, I mean, and like, that's your
boss having right, but the priorities are straight. I'll do
anything for I'll do That's.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
The kind of theater company I want to be in.

Speaker 3 (20:12):
Like, and that's I think there are more people in
this business starting to get that, starting to realize's let's
enjoy it. Let's not kill ourselves doing the job. Let's
let the job actually feed our life instead of suck
life out of us.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
Well, because that's the thing. If you turn, if you
turn the immense good fortune to be creative for a
living into a punishment, it feels like it feels like
a like a multiplier of x kind of disservice, like
we should be. Yes, the hours are grueling, Yes, it

(20:47):
can be totally insane. Yes, having to be on a
plane every seventy eight hours can be nuts. But how
lucky Still, how lucky And like let's let it be fun.

Speaker 3 (20:59):
We make believe for living. It's the most fundamental human
thing that has ever existed, and we get to do
it for a living.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
It's an absolute blessing.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
So like, you know, you know, tired, sleepless, whatever, whatever,
I'm like, hey man, the dream.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
The dream. Yeah, I love that. You got to also
do something that you know, it's not as common in
our business, but I got to do a little bit
of it working across the network the universe rather of
Dick Wolf shows, and you did it in Shondaland, and
you went from Gray's on to Station nineteen back onto Grays.

(21:37):
Like taking these characters out into bigger worlds, I think
is just so cool. Like the day that I showed
up for my first day on SVU as my character
from PD, I just was like, what is happening? Like
I'm having the best day. It was my most favorite
part of my job. Was it super exciting for you

(21:59):
to get to do that, to get to explore this
new world but under the same umbrella one.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
Hundred I mean in this you know, I mean look
and I can I can only imagine because I mean
mine was we had the same experience with slightly different
you going on SVU, because being a guest star is
like the hardest job in all of Hollywood, with the
possible exception of being a guest director, because you got
to like because you're in somebody else's sandbox, but you've

(22:26):
got to like bring this whole person. And on our show,
I tell the guest stars all the time, I'm like
extra love on the guest stars because they've got a
boohoo with their like loved one dying on this you know,
you know, the love of their life dying on the table,
or their kid big, you know, and they've got to
like carry so much emotional weight and all this crazy
stuff and then be funny in the middle of it
and all this stuff. And they're like they know they're

(22:49):
on this like show that's been around for twenty one
you know, it's like this juggernaut, and so like they're
they're really out of their element, and they've got to be.
They got to do this thing that is only done
well when you are most comfortable. I mean act, You've
got to be You've got to be comfortable in order
to act properly. So I always feel like I got
to cheat, you know, you got cheat a little bit.

(23:11):
You're going into you know, Mariska's territory, but you're playing
a character that you knew intimately. You know this character
inside and out down to our DNA, so you still knew, like,
I know this character. So even though this is not
my set, this character is my joint. I got this,
you know. I got to take a character that I
knew intimately and go to a show that was being created.

Speaker 2 (23:34):
And helped create that atmosphere.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
How cool.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
So to like be on the ground floor of like yo,
like this is in the greatest compliment. I'm about to
get tierry for a second, because you know, we just
rapped nineteen only a few months ago. I literally two
nights ago, had had drinks with my my DP and
first a D on the episodes that I directed. They're

(23:59):
in there there, my guys, and uh. But Peter Page,
the showrunner of the show, said to me and we
were just talking about the other day and they were
laughing because his compliment to me was, you don't know
how much grief we escaped because it was understood amongst

(24:21):
cast and crew.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Oh, Jason would never like that's fly.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
I mean like like, oh, you're about to throw one
at it's like, and I'm all about respect. So if
you disrespect me, we got a problem.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
And I'm going to talk to you in.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
An intellectual like way, like we're gonna like you will
not disrespect me. But I also do not do diva
Like diva is not It does not play in my world.
And you know, you know, And so that was the
thing that like he said that to me, and I
was like, I've been good with the ending of the
show up to that point, you know, and like that
was when I was like, you're not gonna make me.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Correct, go get me, don't do it.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, yeah, we'll be back in just minute. But here's
a word from our sponsors. I also love that that
was something so well respected in you. I think that
speaks to the environment. You know. I like to sit
squarely in that space as well, treat everyone with immense respect.
Especially I like to go out of my way to make,

(25:20):
as you were saying, guest stars feel really comfortable, especially
if someone's going to come in for an arc, you know,
seven years into a show. I was just talking to
my girlfriend from Wintree Hill, my friend Janna, about this,
and she was like, I never even told you what
it meant to me, like when I showed up there
for three months that you took me to dinner, you
took me shopping, you showed me around town. I was like, girl,

(25:41):
I remember what it felt like to show up on
that set and be terrified.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Like I get it right, that's and that's what is.
It's remembering it like never forgetting what it is.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
I think that's like Shonda's superpower or like Taylor Swift's superpower.
Is what's like to be a fan?

Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yes, oh my god, me neither. My friend's making fun
of me all the time. We'll go to you know
whatever we got to go do, like the SAG Awards,
and they're like, you are a famous person. You can't
behave this way around other famous people.

Speaker 3 (26:04):
I'm like, but do you know what it is like?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
And I like that it's never I've never gotten jaded
about it. And what I'm happy to see shifting is
like that thing you talk about. There's such leadership and strength.
And I think particularly for you, as you know, a
charismatic man with a nice voice like you get to
come in and say this is what respect looks like.

(26:30):
Years ago for me, I would find that if I
would talk about where the boundaries were, like respect is
required and this kind of behavior won't be tolerated in
this workplace. I got a lot of like, well, you
can't talk to people about that, that's not your job.
And I was like why because I'm the girl and
I'm just supposed to be nice, sweet and cute. And
it's a cool experience too. I think see sets with

(26:55):
diverse kinds of leadership, whether that's in terms of you know, gender, race,
whatever diversity qualifier you want to fill in, because the
more diversity of leadership there is, the more respect there
is for different kinds of leadership as well. And you
see how that makes everybody feel more respected and empowered

(27:17):
to be the best worker. They can be the best leader,
they can be the best partner, they can be the
best advocate they can be. And like I got to
say again, just as a you know, as a fan
and a peer, watching the way you navigate that in
the conversations you've been willing to have about what a
hair and makeup trailer should be capable of. So the

(27:38):
actors of color don't walk into a set and go, oh,
I'm not going to be taken care of here. What
the vibe should be on set where everyone feels immensely respected,
but nobody has the you know, and nobody has the
space to be difficult. How you have to be professional
and you deserve to be treated well, but you shouldn't
have your ego stroked. How you have a platform, you

(28:01):
have to spend that privilege and do good for the world,
Like you're out here doing all the things that I
believe in in the core of my being. And so
I don't know, I hope it doesn't sound like cheesy,
but I also want to say thank you because we
are part of a circus and when we go out
and advocate sometimes people say, well, how dare you And
it's like, y'all, we're just here because we're like weird

(28:23):
union workers, so of course we're going to defend unions,
and of course we're going to defend our people. And
so I don't know. When I see other people like
carrying all, you know, putting all of those things in
their backpack and marching along, I really appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
No, I got mad love for you.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
I mean not to turn it into the mutual love fest,
but but you know, look, my mom would say, you know,
when you have eyes on you. It's your duty to
turn that days to what they need to be looking at.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
I mean, don't make it about you.

Speaker 3 (28:51):
Make it about like, look at this thing that's really
important or like you should be making and you are
all about that have been since day one, and use
the platform good and then the whole and then this
world where people are like, you know, shut up and dribble.
Celebrities should keep their mouths shut, and I'm like, no,
everybody should be talking, but everybody should be making sure
they actually really do their research and have their stuff type.

(29:13):
I mean, so you know, like I have friends who
are like, how do you not get blow Like I
don't get that much blowback when I advocate for stuff
on social media. I'm like, how do you not get
the blowback? And I go, well, part of it is
I say it like I'm sitting with you at the
dinner table. I mean, because I'm from a like I said,
a military town in Virginia, a very purple state, you know,

(29:36):
Like I have tons of friends that are very conservative,
very religious, very right, you know that sort of thing.
And I'm like, but at the end of the day,
if I talk to you and we're trying to solve
a problem as opposed to win some theoretical debate. I mean,
if I talk like a human being, then you can't

(29:57):
get that. You can't get mad. I mean, we can disagree,
but you can't, you know, like so like in solving
the problems on sets, or solving the problems in the industry,
and I mean like working with SAG after and being
in rooms.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
I was in the.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
Negotiating room for you when we went on strike, and
there was are you know, knee deep in that. But
there have been three times where I was ever where
I thought to myself, I think I just ended my career.
And I was like, I was like, I'm gonna go home.
My wife's going to be really really upset with me.
She was like, maybe you should shut them up. But
the reality is it doesn't happen. And the reason why

(30:32):
is because business is business. And when you approach business
from a take care of your workers. I'm one of
your workers. Here's what we need to do a better
job for you and for us, like help us, help you, right,
you know, And so when you approach it from the
we're trying to solve problems here, I'm going to show you,

(30:53):
mister City Executive, mister cdeo, mister whoever it is that's
in position of power, that's management. I'm going to show
you problems that are problems for us that will become
your problem. Yes, Like if I if I don't have
health care, that's going to become your problem. Very free.
I mean if I do't have if I can't feed
my family, if I have to get a second job,

(31:14):
guess what my productivity at you is going to go
weigh down, Like, so let's help me help you.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
And when you come in from that.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
Standpoint, it's real hard to get mad at folks. You know,
they might be annoyed because it's like it's going to
cost me money. But again, it's a business. You got
to spend money to make money. Bro, you knew that
you got in the gate, you knew you know, it's
what you started up for. So when you approach it
from that kind of like, let's solve problems, not win
debates or win fights, Yes, then I think people chill out.

(31:43):
And I think when you go on social media and
you're trying to solve problems and you talk to people
like they're actually instead of looking for the ultimate clap
back and you know, let me uh, you know, let
me make sure I get my likes.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
It's like I will take fewer likes and actually have
people actually.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
Hear my same instead of just preaching to people who
agree with me and just want to shout down the
other side and win that absolutely win some philosophical debate.

Speaker 1 (32:11):
What was it like sitting on the board because you know,
now you're also the chair of the National Union's Diversity
Advisory Committee, so you have stayed in this leadership role
in SAG since the strike. And one of the things
I found really impressive about it is that it finally
helped poke holes in this illusion that like all the

(32:32):
Hollywood people are privileged, you know, and that everyone's just
rolling in money. It's like, no, most of us are
circus performers and most of the people in our union
are working paycheck to paycheck, Like, come on, y'all at best,
and you know, I think people finally, especially I thought
it was really really powerful when Taraji opened up about

(32:52):
what it actually looks looks like to be a business
as an entertainer, and you start to say like, yeah, guys,
if I make a dollar, my agent makes ten cents,
my manager makes ten cents. My lawyer takes, you know,
depending on the job, five to ten cents. A publicist
takes ten cents. If you have an assistant to help
you manage your life because you're on set for eighteen
hours a day, they're taking ten cents. The government's taken

(33:13):
thirty seven. Like, got I got to make a dollar
to maybe take home ten or fifteen cents? And people go,
oh shit, and it's like, yeah, I eat. Everybody eats.
It's kind of why when we talk about like healthcare,
we're like, well, there is enough money, Like maybe if
we didn't charge thirty thousand dollars for an MRI that
you know, oversees costs a nine hundred bucks, Like, there

(33:35):
is actually enough money to keep the people healthy. You
just got to split it up a little bit better.
And I think a lot of people went, oh, we
didn't realize this about your industry. We didn't understand what
your unions did. We didn't totally get that. You know,
the Actors' union's on set with the construction Union and
the transportation union. It's like, yeah, we're just a bunch

(33:56):
of weirdos, like hanging out trying to entertain you. I
thought it was so powerful to tell more of the
truth and to really talk about workers' rights from you know,
these platforms that we have, as you say, you know,
to I always the way your mom talks about I
always say like, oh, if you turn the spotlight on me,
I'm gonna grab it and turn it back like over here.

(34:18):
And I guess I just wonder, like, after all these years,
you know, because you talk about your career, and obviously
fourteen years in Shondaland is huge, but like you have,
you know, more than fifty guest starring roles in nine
series regular roles, and like you have been a working
actor for a long time. What was it like to

(34:41):
rather than just get behind the camera, like get behind
the boardroom table and really start to see inside union leadership.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
No, it's funny because actually that's that's that precedes any
of the what people did describe a success and acting.

Speaker 1 (35:00):
Wait, your your work with the union.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
I've been working with the union since like for almost
my entire time in the industry. Uh, to be dead dead.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Honestly, do not know that I'm a union kid.

Speaker 3 (35:12):
I'm a super labor guy because unions built the middle
class in this country. You know, you like having they
worked with it. They can't you know, they can't work
you seven days a week for four hours a day.
You know your union did that. You're welcome. I mean
most people get their health insurance through their work because
unions fought for it.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I mean unions eight hour work days.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
I could just go on and on and on, workers
compensation for injury at work, all of it.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
My mom was president of the teachers Union where I
grew up.

Speaker 3 (35:41):
UH, And my mom was a She taught learning disabled
kids UH in middle school in Norvil, Virginia.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Then you know Norfolk, Virginia.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Basically it's all right, there's one city, like you drive
five minutes here in Norfolk. And she was the president
of the Novel Education Association, and then when she retired
from the classroom, she went to work for the Virginia
Beach Education Association throughout the Virginia Education Association is like,
I can't tell you how many when I you know,

(36:11):
I'll do I'll still do, you know, I'll you know,
Virginia politics, how many like people who are in an
elected office know my mom and that sort of thing.
She's just that person, she like is not a quiet woman,
and she is like this force of nature kind of person.
Having that as my north star. As I'm thinking about

(36:32):
becoming an actor, there were two things. I was like,
let me figure out, and this is her thing from
being an educator, I'm following on this. She would never
say no. She would ask me questions until you either
realize it was a stupid idea or you had a plan. Right,
So eventually, unless you're an idiot, you start figuring out

(36:54):
the questions she's going to ask you and start finding
solutions to those answers, so it sounds like you actually
had a plan and coming in, so you don't sell
like the idiot when you realize, oh, that was a
really dumb idea, you're right and you got answers for
so as I'm thinking I want to become an actor,
I was like, actors never work, how do you know?
Blah blah blah blah, And I realized I wanted to
go to go graduate school only because everybody comes to

(37:17):
LA takes acting classes. I was like, well, let me
go do nothing but acting classes, like not have to
do a day job. So for three years I just
was in eight in the morning to five.

Speaker 4 (37:28):
At night, class, sixth at night to it to a
ten at night rehearsals for the play you were doing,
and then you woulds the scenes that you had for
the other part of the day, so like literally, and
then on Saturdays it was ten in the morning to
sixth at nine, Right.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
So graduate school was going to get me the ability
to teach acting, so that could be my day job, right,
teach acting. And then the second thing was there's this union, right,
there's this union that protects you. That's where you it
was an actor. You know, it's like suddenly in my
mind because of my mother's kid and I knew this

(38:01):
is the response to her when she asked the question.
You're an actor, you're on your own. It's you versus
the entire world. And I'm like, there's a union and
means you never own your own. That's the whole. So
you know, unions where you get your health insurance, unions
where you get your pension. Right, I didn't even know about.
I wasn't even think about, but I heard that.

Speaker 2 (38:20):
I just knew my mom.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Cared about those things. I was like, you know, I
was twenty, you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm
not thinking about a pension, but I knew she cared
about a pension.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Being able to say that Union gives.

Speaker 3 (38:27):
Me a pension. She cared, so I started showing up.
But this is where Rammed Home for Me was on
my very first gig. It was this daytime soap that
I did for Aaron Spelling, Rest of His Soul. He
also put me my first primetime gig. Somebody called and said,
we're you know, daytime soaps aren't usually syndicated internationally. It's
Aaron Spelling, so we were. We were like on one

(38:48):
hundred and sixty countries around the world, Like there are
people I had met people in Zimbabwe who are like, hey,
you know, And it was funny because it was actually
when I finally went to Zimbabwe, people knew that show
and they knew greats and that made me laugh hard
because I got involved with the Union because literally somebody said, hey,
my friend was traveling in Zimbabwe and apparently we're on
the aeron Zimbabwe this Aaron Spelling soap opera, and I said,

(39:11):
that's so cool. Did we get a Zimbabwe check? And
nobody knew if we got a Zimbabwe check, So I
contacted the Union and turns out we hadn't gotten our
Zimbabwe check. Turns out our Zimbabwe check was way overdue,
and so the union got us our check and got
us the penalty payment on top of it. I mean,
for me, how many days late? And I was like

(39:33):
union got From that point on, I was sticking my
nose into it because I was like, if we do
need to go out on strike, I want to I
want to know exactly what it's about, to know that
it's righteous and we don't need to go out on strike.
I want to make sure that we don't have somebody
taking the trains off the tracks ego or our lives

(39:54):
kind of thing. You know. It was like I want
to you know, what's the handle, and then I want
to be in the room where it happened. I was
able to do that. So I've been on negotiating committee
since like two thousand and one, stuff like that, and
it was cool and even that first one, like I
was able to and then realize that this is what
I preach about the union is all you need is

(40:16):
your work experience. You need to know anything about how
all the rest of this crap works. You don't need
to speak lawyer. You need to be a lawyer. You
don't need to speak lawyer. You don't need to speak
contract language. Be an actor and have some experiences and
as an actor, and we have union leaders and we
have staff lawyers and staff that will translate your work
experience into.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Contract language to help solve problems, you know.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
I mean, I remember the first in that very first
negotiation up there, and they were and we were trying
to pass a thing about what's called paint downs, which
is where the stunt community.

Speaker 2 (40:51):
It's a problem with the stun community.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Occasionally it's not huge, but when it shows up, it's
so egregious. It freaks people out because it's literally getting
me a person of color and a stunt. My stunt
double will be a Caucasian person and you literally use
make them to paint them down, to literally put them
in black face, to double me. Oh, it's the equivalent
where they get a man to double you. And usually

(41:14):
the reason why is, you know, safety's paramount, and safety
is always paramount, but the excuse is always well, we
need to do it safely, and we couldn't find a
woman to do it, or we couldn't do it safely
and we couldn't find a person of color to do it.

Speaker 2 (41:24):
And I'm like you didn't look hard.

Speaker 1 (41:26):
You just didn't look hard enough.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Because I and I had exactly that experience just three
months before that negotiation. And in that negotiation, literally I'll
never forget this, one really curmudgeonly person on the other
side of the table was like, this is in the
nineteen fifties.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
That doesn't happen.

Speaker 3 (41:40):
And I was able to raise my hand and go
three months to me, and then instantly we were in
a side room because they just you know, and we
were getting contract language, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
And the problem is you never solve a problem.

Speaker 3 (41:52):
So I feel like sol often you don't solve the problem,
you're managing it. Because we had to come back for
the same problem ten years later and then another seven
years later and we dealt with it. So this contract,
but you come forward and it's the work experience that
means something. So it's yeah, So for me, I understand
you being a part of the union and how much
the union protects to me, and how much you showing

(42:14):
up and using your voice and putting your experience and
advocating for yourself and for your peers means more than
I understand what it means to be a you know,
TV star. Yes, absolutely, that's newer in my world than
the union piece.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible even as a woman. Like in our last
contract negotiation when we were trying to increase protections for
women on set, there were we did a side call

(42:51):
because I was like, listen, I have not been in
this position, but hypothetical, Okay, let's say we have to
go do an episode of Westworld on HBO show a
lot of nudity, especially with women. You know, you get
into some of those Western towns and like these background
girls they're essentially shooting like you know what looks to
be orgies, and they're like, well, now it's going to be.

(43:12):
If you show up on set and they tell you
as a background doctor you have to be naked, you
can say no and leave with no penalty. And I
was like, do y'all think women trying to get their
foot in the door who have no power can leave
and potentially there's supposed to be fifty of them in
the scene and twenty five of them leave, And you
think those women aren't going to get blackballed by that

(43:33):
first d a D staff for fucking up their shot. Day
of said absolutely, not. There has to be language in advance,
like you should know two days before your set call
if you are expected to be without your clothing, so
you can say I'm actually unavailable and they can find
someone else and nobody needs to know why. Yeah have

(43:53):
to protect these people. And it was really interesting to
see some members of the committee go oh, and I
was like, you've just you've never been a woman on
a set. You don't know and that's why. Yes, of course,
And by the way, that's why I bring it up
because I'm like, I loved seeing that language make it in.
But it required people being like, no one will say

(44:16):
you're going to be black bald, but they'll they'll they'll
get pretty close. And what we have to do is
eradicate the circumstance where someone could be black bald in
the first place. And it's like, that's what I find
exciting about what you're saying for anyone listening at home. Look,
we're talking about our experiences as actors. But your experience
in the workplace can make your workplace better. You can

(44:40):
be the aha moment. You can turn on the light
bulb for people, whether it's you know, inside your own union,
or you turn around and realize that because of your job,
you have power in another sector. It's like, it's what
you're doing with Brady, which is you know so close
to my heart, Like I got my first rifle when
I was Oh my dad, you know, he spent his

(45:02):
summers on a chicken farm in Canada. Like I'm not
an anti gun person. I am vehemently anti insane gun
laws like we have in America, but to create healthier circumstance,
Like you know, my dad's history is his my mom's
father was a navy guy, Like you talk about growing

(45:22):
up in a military family. Like you know, I did
weapons work in TV. I've done it on films, Like
I'm excited about the sanity conversation that you guys are
having it Brady, that you know Vice President Harris and
now Governor Wallaser having with us, Like you know, they
were like he's coming for the guns, and people like
put out that cute photo of him and his dog

(45:44):
like out burning with a rightfle.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
And I was like, y'all this is it doesn't have.

Speaker 1 (45:48):
To be crazy. We can have sane conversations. How did
you know in addition to all your advocacy for the
union and our industry. How did the sane gun ownership
and reining in the conversation about you know, guns and
gun violence. How did that get on your radar?

Speaker 2 (46:06):
I mean, look, I mean the short answer is, I'm
a dad.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
I mean, and it gets you paying attention to you know,
because when you're young and single, you're invincible.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
You can you know, I'm indestructible, you can't do anything.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
And then you start thinking about the things that can
hurt your kids and you realize that they've hurt people.
That sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Now that's it.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
I'd also and does the world start to pay more
attention to it? And started to think about guns differently.
I started to realize things. You know, my cousin, Daryl
Whipman was was shot and killed and his murder never found.
I mean, you don't think of that as gun violence.
You think of that as like, you know, a senseless killing.
And they said that, so there's things involved and blah
blah blah. And then like I have members of my

(46:47):
family who've had crazy domestic abuse issues, guns involved, threatened
with guns, that sort of thing. But that's domestic but
that's a whole separate thing that's not gun violence. And
then you're like, and then I know, we actually have
a dear family friend who was the flip side of
that domestic violence scenario where he and the mother of
his daughter made each other insane because they had that

(47:10):
passionate on again off again, would test each other, proke
each other's blogs president and then he had too easy
access of a gun and he will never see the
outside of a prison again. And the testament to how
much that was not him was that the victim's mother,

(47:30):
his daughter's grandmother, testified that he should not get the
death penalty.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
But that was not him.

Speaker 3 (47:37):
And at the end of the day, you've got to
put it on. Everybody snaps and says things they don't mean.
Every once in a while, hopefully it's every once in
a long while, you have a moment where you uncharacteristically
loud or do something out of character. A gun in
close proximity makes that horrible and in ways that you
can never take back, and that will change everyone's life.

Speaker 1 (47:58):
Yeah, it makes that regrettable thing you said, a horrifically
unimaginable thing that no one can believe you did. And
that's heavy.

Speaker 3 (48:07):
And so all of those things started to coalesce in
the I started realizing gun violence has been affecting my
life all this time, and I'm looking at my kids
now having to do you know, active shooter drills, and
how traumatizing that can be because you know, you don't

(48:27):
want your kid to think about it. I mean, you know,
we did fire drills and like that was like that
was annoying, but hey, we got to get outside for
a little bit. I remember bringing in elementary school, but
the idea that somebody was going to come and try
and hurt you was a far more threatening, you know.
And now we're looking and that. You know, then the
more you start to pay attention, the more you start

(48:47):
to freak out and realize that, Like there were laws
that said that we couldn't research gun violence for decades,
which was insane, Like we can't research this thing. That's
how partisan it had become. That's how we'rediculously about people
trying to win a fight as opposed to solve the problem. Yes,
we're going to solve the problem. Let's just research it.

(49:08):
Like I'm not even saying we're going to pass a law.
I'm saying, let's just let's just get real numbers and
facts on the table.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
So we can all talk about it. And when that
went away.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
Now we're having this open floodgates of information where we're realizing,
you know, the number one cause of death for children
in America today is guns.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Yeah, and that's that's nuts. That's that's sugges nuts.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
And and you know every other country people struggle with depression,
people are having a hard time at work, people have anxiety.
They all watch the same movies we do and play
the same video games we do. It's the guns, It's.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Right, I mean, we're you know, the idea that you know,
you know, the going thing that stops the back guy
with the gun is a good guy with the gun
or guns making people taper. You're like, we have four
times as many guns. We have four times as many
uh you know guns, as much gun violence is yeah,
as any other country in the world.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
And that's just not an accent.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Well, and I think we've we've seen, we have enough
proof to know that that adage is just not accurate.
You know, women are five times more likely to die
in a domestic violence situation if there is a gun
in the house. We have seen, I mean we saw
it in Uvaldi. What happened at that school in Texas.

(50:26):
How many armed, trained, good guys with guns were there
and those children were executed, you know, very similarly to
your family story. My little cousin was the little girl
shot and killed the day Gabby Gifford's was shot in Arizona,
and you know, she was an elected official. There were
armed police. It's like this idea that more guns helps

(50:50):
has been disproven, and I think I think in particular,
it's important for folks like us to help have these
conversations because it is is you know, the the on
screen firefighters or cops. It is the movies about the
good guys that make us think like, oh, it's doable.

(51:11):
We love a hero story. But data is not a story,
and data is not an opinion, and data is not
an emotion. It's just fact, and we have the facts.

Speaker 3 (51:22):
It's inconvenient.

Speaker 1 (51:23):
Yeah, it's why they tried to make it illegal to
research gun violence for so long, because it was inconvenient
to the profit of the gun industry.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
And that's why I'm so proud of the Brady campaign
doing the trigger warning.

Speaker 1 (51:34):
Yeah, can you tell us about that?

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Yeah, it's a guy that they literally are going to
the media. I mean, you just hit the nail on
the head that you know, how many people learned, you know,
learned to think that smoking was cool because they watched
people do it in the movies, and that's sort of thing.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Well, we all learned to think that guns are cool
because we watched movies and TV.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
Well, Brady campaign is, you know, trigger Warning is about
let's have conversations with the industry to figure out how
to make gun safety cool. Right. Yeah, and again not
anti gun. You said, you know you shoot, I'm a
good shot. Every I grewup around guns my entire life.
The reality is when you see the cop shooting at

(52:11):
the bad guys, he runs down the street and he
gets an he's heroic, and everybody pats him on the
back for you know, getting the bad guy of all.
You know, let's let's roll it back and say, let's
have the cop get yelled at you because you know,
one we begin to think that all cops are firing
at bad guys all the time and that's cool. And
then you find out that like something like one in
four police officers have ever fired their gun in a

(52:32):
line of dude, you suddenly go, oh, that's a completely
disproportioned idea. Of what's going on.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
So let's let's make it a more realistic scenario you can.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Let's find another way to make it cool in action
without necessarily or let's have the cop get yelled at
for firing in a crowd.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Yes, out in public where you could have endangered the
lives of other people.

Speaker 3 (52:54):
Right, we percussions for the discharge of your weapon and
that sort of thing, and then simple little things like uh,
like you know, how many movies have you seen where
they know they have a gun underneath their pillow, they
have a gun in their in their side.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
I mean, we have candidates.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Talking about how their grandmother had guns in this drawer
and that drawer and guns all over the house, and
I just thought, that's just begging for somebody to catch
a bullet.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Oh yeah, I mean again, another stat for you.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
One out of every four kids says that they have
handled a gun without their parents.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Knowing about it.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Yes, so the kids are and as a mischievous kid,
I guarantee you your kid knows where your gun is.
I guarantee you. You know, if you have multiple kids,
at least one of them is figured out where it
is and you know, and then it is showing it
to friends and seyada YadA YadA. We all know these
stories and people think about it may be part of
these stories, and then you know, these are the moments

(53:46):
when I go, how did we not die back in
the day, Yes, there is you were lucky because there
are kids that do you know eight kids die every day,
and so it's the so like so if you have
in the show, if you see the cop come home
from work, they didn't discharge their their weapon. They got

(54:07):
the you know, information that they got the bad guy
in a more responsible, more realistic way. They come home,
they take their gun out and they put it into
their they then into the secure box.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
Then that becomes just cool.

Speaker 3 (54:19):
That becomes the way you handle this as opposed to
this wild West mens out I mean, and again we
changed mythology. We think the wild West was so wild
there were tons of towns in the wild West where
you had to leave your gun at the border of
the town, where you couldn't come into town with your guns.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
Specifically because we've never seen that on screen.

Speaker 3 (54:44):
No I've never seen you know, like, well, who's making
that movie? And so putting that out there in a
chance to just like with that wild West, example, show
something that's cool and interesting and get completely historically accurate.

Speaker 2 (54:54):
You know, like you know, just.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
Like you know the tons of black cowboys and like go, oh,
that's not the We only know what Hollywood shows us.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
We only know what newsreel show us.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
That sort of thing.

Speaker 3 (55:05):
You and so flipping the script and take a little
look at your script. You don't have to change your
story fundamentally. You don't have to change how your heroin
gets down. You don't have to change that much. But
a little touch here and a little touch there will
really begin to change the way we all view gun safety.

(55:26):
It's like, oh, having a secure lockbox is cool, it's smart.
Protects my kids. If you show a kid and if
you show the ramifications of not blocking you know safely,
that's a great storyline.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
That's the thing, you know. I've got the show to do.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
In this last season an episode about extreme risk protection
orders most people known as like red flag laws, and
there's basically the laws that we're ad say, if this
person is demonstrably uh a danger to themselves or others,
you can take.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
A domestic violence situation. You can take their guns away.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
It is the prime I mean domestic violence and mental
uh and and someone who's mentally unhealthy. Mental illness are
the two prime examples where you can say, yo, this
veteran is in a really bad place, and this is
the thing where I feel like we've got because the
whole joke, the whole goal now is to get.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Everybody on the same page.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
Yes, remember we watched the scene, the social media posts
of it's the guy who was a he's a self
proclaimed gun nut.

Speaker 2 (56:30):
That's how he would refer to himself. I'm a gun nut.
I want that one. I want that one, I want
that one.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
And it's a funny bit and everything like that, and
he shoots and it's and that's all great, that's fine.
But even he would say, if you're a veteran and
you're in a dark place, maybe give your guns to
your buddy. Yeah, maybe give your guns to your body.
Because if a veteran's going to kill themselves, it's going
to be with a gun. Yes, no, uh, you know,
police officers, they're going to do it.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
They were.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
And people forget how much suicide is the bulk of
gun violence. Yes, and again it's and again, the more
you start to learn, the more you start to it
starts to reshape what you picture as gun violence. We
all think of mass shooters because that is the big,
scary what causes that? How do you ever prevent that?
And we realize how much of it really is preventable.
And again this and this is my argument to the

(57:15):
whole more guns. I'm like, bounce prevention is worth a
pound of cure. Right, So, if we can separate the
mentally unhealthy person from their guns just while they're in
their dark space, if we're going to separate the abuser
from their guns while the person being abused is still
vulnerable until they get to a safe place, until things
have calmed down in that relationship. If you can separate

(57:37):
the mentally unhealthy person who's angry, who's been bullied at school,
et cetera, et cetera, if you can separate them from
the guns or make it difficult to access guns.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
You know, most school shooters.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
I think something the number is like something like seventy
six percent of school shooters that are teens got the
gun from their own or a friend's house. Yes, that
neck end goes too. If it was in a lock box.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
They wouldn't add access.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I can't get to my you know I can get
to my friend's house maybe, but I you know, and
even if he showed me where his parents keep their gun,
I don't know the code. If there's a code, right,
it was just in a drawer, came on and nothing
and there's nothing to stop me. It's about putting those
impediments between people and doing damage to themselves up. Bunce
of prevention is worth of pound of cure. And when

(58:25):
you talk about it in real calm, trying to solve
the problem, not win some political fight. Right, I don't
care about that. I mean over a beer. I have
yet to meet a gun owner who, over a beer
would acknowledge that. The fact that I can walk.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
In screaming about how much.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
My wife pissed me off, and when I get home,
blah blah blah blah, punk down my id, get a
case of beer and AK forty seven.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
That's a bad.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
Idea, A bad idea. He's just it's a bad idea.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
Period, bad idea. And at the end of the day,
it's like this because it makes a lot of people
a lot of money. The gun lobby has made so
much money making the rest of us unsafe. As as
a hobbyist, as a gun owner. That pisses me off.
The idea that they have sold people on marketing that

(59:21):
folks at home need to have weapons of war in
their garages. I'm like enough, And I loved what Secretary
Buddhacheg said back on the campaign trail leading into the
twenty twenty election. He was like, listen, you want to
say we can't infringe on your Second Amendment rights? Enough,
He goes, because you can't have a predator drone. I
say that as a veteran. You don't get to have one.

(59:42):
So there's a line somewhere, and we need to walk
the line back to these types of weapons. And I
was like, wow, that's the best way I've ever heard
a person say, like I can't buy a tank. I
can't do that, and I don't and I shouldn't be
able to.

Speaker 3 (59:56):
Well, the reality is, I mean, and I'm the first
one to say shooting guns is fun. Shooting is fun,
and it is funny. I'm like shows blowing stuff up.
There are rules about dynamite.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
There's rules about dynamite, nitriglitz you, I mean, and that's
just and that's that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
And so it's just common sense things and so that's
why I'm like so proud of like the the you know,
I mean, look the trigger warning getting Hollywood to start
to reframe how we see it in media. I mean
it was put together by the Hollywood Health and Society, uh,
you know, at the the US's Norman Lear Center, and

(01:00:33):
I give them, I give them, you know, and it
makes me laugh because I go, Norman Lear at the
heart of so many cool things in America. I mean, yeah,
shows that brought black folks into your home every week
were from Norman Lear that put women at the front
of being funny.

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
Where Norman Lear uh that.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Like got into the controversial stuff and made it funny
so we could laugh, chill out and talk about it.
Of course, Norman Lear and Hollywood Health and Society at
the heart of that because you know, like let's just
talk about it, like not not argue about it. Like
we're gonna show you what, We're going to break it open.
We'll make you laugh about it, will make you cry
about it, and then we're going to make you think

(01:01:10):
about it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Like for ree, it's making space for the entire human
experience of problem solving.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Yeah, and a relief problem. Don't just win the fight
and now a.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Word from our sponsors. So where do people go, Like,
if this kind of you know, sane and inclusive dialogue
sounds great to people, how do our listeners get involved?

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Well, you can check you can check out Hollywood Health
and Society. You can check out Brady Campaign. I do
work with every Town and Mom's Demand Action. I mean,
these are these groups are out there getting it done
and uh, and I love them all and they each
have real special niches. Uh. How the Health Society is
talking to Hollywood h literally and was on the forefront

(01:02:05):
of getting people to realize, you know, the power that
we have, ah, and some of the mistakes that we've
been making unintentionally, uh, in the kind of messaging that
we put out there, and that we can just a
simple little flip. You don't lose any of the power
of the story, but you can make a big difference.

(01:02:25):
And then on the other end of the spectrum, you
got Mom's Demand Action that I love. That's so they're
all greased, but Mom's Man Action. It's like, I mean,
I'm I remember when like Mom's against drunk driving changed
the entire situation, and it wasn't The laws eventually were
part of it. But really what they did was they
made it uncool to drive drunk. They made it cool

(01:02:47):
to ask you to tell you to get your friend
to give you the keys because I know you've been drinking,
you know. So now my hope is that we're going
to make it cool to ask when your kids go
over for play date, ask if there are guns in
the home? Yes, and then asking the follow up of
properly yes. It makes it cool to have the conversation,

(01:03:08):
get a fight, It makes it It's making it cool
for Hollywood to show responsible gun safety and a lot
of boxes and that sort of thing. You know, that's
all making that stuff cool is the thing, and I
think that's what Mom's demand action is about. I think
when Hollywood Health Society has taking that and really getting people,
they're like showing, you know, putting trigger warning in their
face and making them understand. So you can find them
on social media, you can find their websites. They're out there.

Speaker 2 (01:03:30):
And by the way, it's your friends and neighbors. Everybody's
in this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:03:34):
And what I want, what I pray is you know,
you as a person who's used guns, and me as
a person you know, like all the gun owners getting
the game. Then the gun owners start getting in the
game because that fear of they're going to take the guns.
It's like, no, we're going to control gun safety. It's
not they're going to do anything. It's we are going

(01:03:55):
to make ourselves safer. And it doesn't mean but it's
not about taking the guns. It's about let's make sure
we're smart. We're just gun safety just be a watch
word that we all pay attention to exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
I love it, I absolutely love it. There's a lot.
I mean, we've covered a lot, from your twenty fifth
anniversary to parenthood to you know, career and advocacy and
all of these things you have You've done so much,
and you've you've also given so much with your career
and with your platform. I wonder as you sit here,

(01:04:29):
you got to come to terms of the fact that
twenty twenty four is going to be over before we
know it. As you kind of look out ahead over
the rest of the year and beyond what what feels
like you're work in progress right now?

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
Oh, my work, My work in progress is I've.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
It's funny because I'm I'm staring at empty nester. I mean,
I got sixteen olds driving cars. They can get themselves
to and from where they need to be on their own.
They can uber if they need to because they're they're
older responsible.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
I think he drive themselves there and so you know,
and I've won in college and so.

Speaker 3 (01:05:05):
I'm it is that thing right now where I'm starting
to do more things for me, which, funny enough, some
of that's in the business, you know, things that I
was like, just notice the Grindstone show up, get the
work done, build the acting career. And now I'm like,
I want to be a part of creating this thing
from the jump, from get go and bringing the elements together.
And that's exciting and also just enjoying book. We just

(01:05:26):
celebrated our twenty fifth wedding anniversary and so for a
long time you did that that kids are the most
important thing in the world. Yeah, and I've told them
since they were little. I was like, if you see
daddy kissing mommy, never interrupt you, never interrupt daddy kissing mommy,
because it's just happening before you. This would be going

(01:05:47):
on when you all leave. And it was funny and
I was serious and it was a joke, and yet
it's also you know. Now I'm at the spot where
I'm like, hey you.

Speaker 1 (01:05:59):
Yeah, you know, you're like, wait, what are you doing?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Later was like, you know, and so we've been in
that space for the last little bit. We're like, you know,
hey kids, you know where what do you want for dinner? Oh,
I'm out gonna be over here? Or what we're doing?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
That thing?

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
I got practice, I got this, that and the other thing,
and everybody spread out to the four winds and we
just looked at because you and mean. So so we
rolled to the pub around the corner that we love
and you know, pop down and chill with, you know,
call a couple of.

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
People to be like, hey, what you're doing?

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
And I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
I'm with my four year old. I can't make it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:27):
So like you talk about your friends, we have a
whole bunch of our friends who are at that stage,
and my brother being among them, and I'm like, hey man,
he's like, I can't, Ben, I got the kids. So
but we're finding So the work in progress now is
going back to getting your young and sexy on, you know,
getting your young and sexy and ambitious on and final
projects that you get to be at the center. That's
what I'm I'm excited about right now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
I love that. Well, thank you, I mean truly, you know,
from what you do on screen to all the things
you choose to do off it, really it means a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
Appreciate you, and right back at you.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
This is a perfect example, just this podcast and who
you choose to put on and what you choose to
amplify on your podcast again amazing, and and to do
it all with grace and and eating and and not
caught up in all of that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:20):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that very much much love yeah,
right back at you, thank you for today, Jason Oh
to be appreciate you