February 27, 2025 • 61 mins
This week, Sophia is joined by a fellow CW alum — multi-talented actress, producer, host, entrepreneur, and lovely human being JoAnna Garcia Swisher.
TV fans have seen JoAnna shine on the small screen in hit shows like the CW's Reba and the Netflix hit Sweet Magnolias, but she tells Sophia that she actually considered walking away from acting at one point. She reveals what drew her back to her craft.
JoAnna also opens up about the grief of losing her parents, gets emotional talking about her relationship with Reba McEntire, and talks about finding her happy place with 'The Happy Place' and all of the exciting projects her production company is working on!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey Whipsmarties.
(00:15):
I am so excited to sit down today with a
woman I have known and admired for so long, not
only for her incredible career, but as a human who
was one of the very first people I met when
I started work as a little whipper snapper on the WB.
Today's guest is none other than Joanna Garcia Swisher. She
(00:37):
has an undeniable range as both a comedic and a
dramatic actress. She's one of those people who is so
naturally vibrant that you're drawn to her in every room,
and she has built such an incredible not only career,
but life, from her current role on Netflix's Sweet Magnolia's
to her beautiful lifestyle destination The Happy Place, with which
(01:00):
really explores what motivates us, what makes us feel amazing,
how we gather, how we enjoy, what it is to
be alive, to one of my very favorite things. Y'all know,
I don't really watch reality TV, but I did get
hooked on the Ultimatum Queer Love, and she hosted it,
and my goodness, did I love it. She does all
(01:21):
of it. She's a mom of two young girls. She
is a wife, she is a producer, she is a creator,
and I'm just so excited to sit down and talk
with her today about the twenty plus years we've known
each other, what her career has been like thus far,
and what she sees ahead in the next twenty Let's
sit down with Joe.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hello, I'm so excited to see you in your family's
well and I really's good.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, the girls are getting so big, eleven and eight.
It's wild. I know. I was just talking to Nick
last night and he was saying something about a car
and he's like, well, Emmy, I'll be driving in like
four years. And I thought, what did you just say
to me? I felt I felt like it was an assault.
I mean, granted, she's eleven, almost twelve, but I thought,
don't say that to me. Don't point that stuff out.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That's too big a leap.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was like, no, sir, because you know how quickly
four years goes by. God willing by the way in this.
But I just thought, oh, gosh, but you know, we're
just good. It's good East Coast eleven.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, and you're loving it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
We are. I mean, we're back home, and so it
feels right after I lost my dad and then my
mom and then my grandmother. Well my grandmother are two
weeks before my mom. It just felt like the right
thing to be home. I needed to be by my brother.
My in laws had moved to Tampa, so we came back.
And also I've been working in Georgia since twenty nineteen,
so it's like a hop skip, so we're kind of
(03:00):
splitting our time between there, and it feels feels like
the right spot. But every time I go back to
La just but I kind of just miss what we had,
Like you know, that era, that time where things were
just a little bit more simple, a lot more simple,
and yeah, and it was fun and stiff. So I
just I'm a nostalgic for that me too mean moments.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It's interesting, though, when you talk about your girls, because
one of my favorite things to ask people is to
rewind and talk about childhood. And I realize, in all
the years I've known you, I've not really asked you
this question either, And I find that it's so interesting
when I get to talk to parents about this, because
(03:44):
they can look at their own childhood and also see
these sort of themes reflected in their children in present day.
So when when you look back, you know, at the
age your younger daughter is at nine, if you could
go and hang out with nine year old Joanna, would
you see the woman you are today in her? Would
(04:07):
you be like, oh my god, she's friendly and gathers
people and is so communicative and as a total performer
or was she like a totally different kid.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think there was probably all of that there, and
this sort of just like knowing that things were going
to be okay. But I was really picked on at
that time of my life, you know, and I feel
like I still carry those scars to this day of
just I was so emotional. And one of my friends
(04:39):
has a daughter who's like this, and I see it
a lot in her and I always kind of talk
to my friend through it, and people call her dramatic
and all of this stuff, and I'm like, yeah, but
that's what makes her so unique and special and she
feels so deeply, and so yeah, I think I see
a lot of that. I'm probably a little bit more
graceful now, a little, but I was a little bit
(05:01):
of a bull in a china shop, which I am
now still in certain ways. But I was like I
know what I want to do with my life. I
knew I had this utter sense of just faith that
everything was going to be okay. But it was hard.
It was really hard, and it definitely affected it still
(05:23):
does to this day, that sort of need to kind
of like please and fit in and all of those
little insecurities that creep up naturally. And then we choose
to do what we do for a living, which is
so forward facing and up for a million opinions, and
lord knows, we didn't even know back then when we
started this that the world would be like this, that
(05:43):
there would be so much access and conversation about us.
I mean, I feel like when we started on the
WB it was like message boards that you had to
like log into AOL about it. Just like you think
about how much the world has changed. But yeah, I
think that when I look back on my childhood, I
really felt now that I'm really just kind of digging
(06:06):
into it. My mom was just such a She was
like a getter done. She was like, what do you
want to do? She was so supportive, and I feel
like I have a lot of that like feral mom
energy and me where I'm like, you want to do this?
Let's go in, like, let's figure it out, let's go.
My husband had a little bit of that too, which
is not a great balance for us, so we tend
(06:29):
to kind of like go all over the place. But yeah,
I just I felt I felt like it was tough,
but I knew it was going to be okay. And
I kind of feel like that now. I guess I
just said that earlier. When we got on the phone.
I was like we started talking, I was like, this
is a hard moment. Yeah, but we're going to be okay.
(06:51):
And my dad really talked a lot about that too.
My dad was an immigrant, you know, he came over
when he was thirteen years old from Cuba, and he
saw a lot, a lot, a lot of things in
his life. And what I feel like, I know, especially
now having like my parents on the other side, that
(07:14):
I can endure a lot more than I feared a
lot of things that I just now know. I say
to my daughters. My daughter asked me if childbirth was painful.
I said, well, yeah, but she's like, I'm so scared
of it. And I was like, you're eight and by
the time you decide to have a baby, or if
that's what your choice is like, you'll be ready for it,
you can handle the pain. Put that, but let's bench
(07:36):
that one for now. But it is true because I
was so afraid of the idea of like, God, what
happens the day I lose my mom my dad. It's
going to be the worst, the worst, And it is.
But I'm still here, and I'm still living and still
thriving and still navigating life.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And yeah, well, and I think there's something really interesting
to you know, the point that you make about sensitivity,
because it is hard to be sensitive to cruelty, to
be sensitive to the suffering of others, to feel the
weight of things in the world. But I think it
(08:13):
also can be such a leading force. It's the thing
that allows you to say, oh, this suffering is an injustice,
Oh this is a person I could show up for.
Oh I wish I wish someone had shown up for
me during X. And so when I see someone going
(08:34):
through it, I'll show up for them. And I think
that's it's a gift. It's not always easy to be
informed and conscious and tapped in and all the things,
but I do think it's the only way that things
get better. And so maybe that's why so many sensitive
people wind up in ways becoming artists and creating things
(08:58):
because to tell other people's stories is a it's a
way of showing up.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean not to I've shared this before, but
I had that there was a moment where I was
contemplating not wanting to act as much anymore. And I
didn't share that with anybody because that actually, even saying
it now is kind of a scary thing because I
don't feel that way now, just FYI. But I had
a healer, this really wonderful woman, and she said to me,
(09:25):
you know, what we do as artists, and not to
like make our job so important, but she said, it's
life is all about bumping up against each other and
honing our stones, and oftentimes people, you know, we're so
many people are just trying to survive right now, and
their escape is watching television, or their escape is you know,
(09:48):
going to a beautiful museum and you know, looking at
incredible art and learning about those things. And part of
what our I think gift is and our ability, like
the honor of what we do, is to be able
to kind of make people feel certain things because we
are able to hone stones just by allowing someone to
(10:09):
laugh or cry, or look at the world in a
little bit of a different way, or learn something. And
I think it is really important to It's not easy
to be so raw in touch and you know, literally
step into the pain and suffering of somebody else that
we don't know. You know, those are all they're great honors,
(10:31):
but it's not easy to do. And so but I
also think there's like value to it more than just entertainment.
And I do think that it's like an energetic sort
of healing that we have an opportunity to do and
to connect. And all I want to do right now
is tell stories that are relatable and too. You know,
they're not the coolest stories, maybe you're the hippist or
(10:52):
the ones that get the most attention, but they're the
ones that make people feel like less alone. And right now,
I just like that's so that's where I'm fitting in
and with my job, and also you know, trying to
raise two young women to look outside of themselves and
(11:12):
look further than their immediate radius, and by the way,
also also settle in and figure out how you can
help the person that's sitting right next right next to you.
Such a great honor to connect and it is a
huge responsibility. And so you and I think as we
get older we try to like protect our energy and
(11:33):
our peace and all of that. Yeah, that's that is
also a delicate dance. What do we have the bandwidth for? Yeah,
that's I'm so grateful to be surrounded by such strong, connected, aware,
awake people because it's like I got your back, you
got mine, and will kind of carry the burden, you know,
(11:54):
cover the terrain together.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, I think I get what
you mean. You know, we're so taught to not you know,
praise what we do or whatever, but I do think
it's important to love it. And I get that it's
not rocket science, and I get that it's not curing cancer.
But I've also sort of had to I had a
(12:18):
friend say this to me. One of my best friends
paid me a compliment and I did the thing that
women are taught to do, and immediately, you know, self deprecated.
And it happened to be a guy friend of mine,
and he was like, this is so interesting to me
that the difference, he said, do you not get that
(12:39):
I'm essentially I'm giving you a gift. It's like if
I handed you a present, and you immediately batted it
back into my hands. It would be insulting. Why do
you want to take this compliment and throw it right
back at me and immediately delegitimize it. And I had
to see that it could hurt someone else's feelings to
realize I was actually in validate.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
My own Yes, and I think about that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
In terms of our work, and I've this is such
a gift of the experience that I've had with some
of the wonderful people I've gotten to meet around the
world who watch the things we make, and the number
of people who've said, in one version or another, well,
(13:23):
you might not be curing cancer, but I watched your
show through my cancer treatment. I was just going to
say that you might not be. And it's like, wait
a second, Oh my god. Yes we get to encourage empathy. Yes,
we get to step into other people's shoes. Yes, we
might get to show audiences people they don't know and
remind people that no one is other. But we also
(13:45):
do get to walk through things with people that so
many others don't. And when I went through my own
period of what you're talking about, of going, oh, I
love my job, but maybe I'm entering a phase in
my life where it's not really for me. Yeah, what
brought me back to how much I love my job
and what makes me more excited than ever for all
(14:06):
the things ahead was actually being reminded of how special
and sacred our job is. When the making it and
the things we've all as women been through on set
hit a sort of breaking point for me, and I
was like, I don't understand, Like, how can all these
people stand around and watch and say nothing? How can
(14:28):
this be acceptable or just the way it is? I
think I need a minute, and I gave myself a minute,
thank god. But what the beat taught me was like, oh,
part of why I hate when it's not being treated properly,
that the job, the environment, the women on the set,
(14:50):
all of it under the hit umbrella. Be concluded, I
guess it is because this is actually so special. It's
such a privilege. We're so lucky to do this thing
that connects us to people around the world. And like,
in a way I had to lean out for a second,
to lean in doubly.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It literally was the exact what I at twenty nineteen.
It's exactly that realization for me. Wow, it was just
my tank was empty, and then I got Sweet Magnolia.
As they asked me to do this little show, I
had no idea what to expect. I knew one of
(15:28):
the directors on the show. I admired the women that
had already been cast, and I was like, kind of
one of those things for like three days, you have
three days to decide. I had Sailor was a baby.
I picked her up out of her cribs. I was like, Okay,
I got to read these scripts today, and it totally
reignited my commitment to what I think will be like
(15:51):
the next twenty years of my career and how and
knowing that, you know, telling stories that like I said,
it's a sweet it's a show about friendship and women
and sisterhood and family, but like there's so much truth
to it. And it just was like the right at
the right time, the right moment, the right time, and
(16:12):
everything kind of came together and I was like, this
is the type of storytelling. And in some ways, I
feel like I had been putting that out there and
like it was, you know, the law of attraction, like
I was welcoming into my life. But I thought, no,
this is it. This was an answer to a question
that I had had that I did that I wasn't
even articulating correctly, but it was just not settling. I
(16:36):
wasn't in my in the flow. And now I feel
one hundred percent the clarity is so there. Yeah, and
it makes sense now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. It's interesting because
even the way you talk about it. You said earlier
that you have nostalgia for that kind of beginning era
when we all started working and we were all on
(17:08):
the WV and you.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Know, all these things glossy and.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Interestingly, my brain was like, God, I get it. But
also I missed the era because I was in North Carolina, Carolina. Yeah,
I can see you guys like once a year when
you would come in.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's like at home totally. Yeah, that's true. That's a
good point.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
But the way you're talking about the show, it feels nostalgic. Yeah,
and I wonder if maybe that's part of why it
feels so special.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So good.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, that's a great point. I'm going to marinate on
that a little bit because actually that I feel like
that kind of touches a little bit on my grief
and where I've been in, you know, like my life is.
The irony is that this incredible blessing came into my
life at the same time that I experienced the most
signial loss that I've ever even could have imagined. It
(18:03):
was like damn, bam bam. I mean and talk about
being untethered. You know, mom and dad are gone, grandmother's gone,
Everyone's like there and I'm just like, okay, I'm here,
and who's my anchor? You know. It was like really discombobulating,
and so I feel like maybe it always kind of
meant to be in that that I needed that like
(18:25):
touch back to where a safer time and easier time,
a special time I needed the balance.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
How interesting that you were going through this seismic shift
in your life, because I think, you know, I think
about this a lot, you know, knock on wood, I'm
I'm lucky to have both my parents, yes, And I
think about I am aware already that there is a
before and an after that when you lose your parents
(18:53):
and you're just speaking. It's weird. We're having this sort
of a cross time conversation in the present. You're you're
speaking from the after, and as I'm listening to you,
I'm like, well, no, wonder this amazing show about family
and friendship came to.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You in this moment, Like, yeah, it saved me.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
For you to be able to be in that kind
of arena of love and to process emotion and to
just be present, It's like, Wow, what an amazing kind
of gift it is.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And also one of my co stars has lost both
had lost both of her parents too, and so few
of my friends at like my age, our age, like,
we don't we don't know that right, And I'll never
forget this season. We were on set together. We both
had our prop phones, which are obviously not connected at all,
but we were talking and we both brought up our
(19:52):
dads and we looked down at our prop phone and
he said, oh my god, Brook, I said, the date
my prop phone is the day that my dad died.
And she looked down at her prop phone and her
prop phone and it's the date that her dad died,
and I was like, we just started to ball. I was,
(20:13):
it was so beautiful and we just both said hi Dad,
like we hear you, we see you, we feel you.
But I it Yeah, and everything, I mean nothing is
for no reason. All of every step along the way
is a part of the big picture. And my only
(20:36):
goal is to be you know, humble and aware enough
to just or just I think just mostly just be
aware of the importance of it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, oh my god, that's so incredible. And for the
folks at home, I realized we've gotten no surprise. Whenever
I see it, I don't care if it's like a
year or ti.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
We go so deep.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
We just start immediately like how's your heart? But for
the for our friends at home, who you know, there's
one million streamers and networks and things and whatever. If
someone hasn't seen the show, can you tell them about it?
And like, give us the lay of the land. Okay,
I'm realizing I'm not doing my job and like, no,
(21:19):
it's give me the project details. So I want to
do it before we keep leaning into the surround the
surrounding life.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Of course, Yes, sweet Mindalia is. It's on Netflix. It's
based on three best childhood best friends. They're like sisters
chosen family, and it's really about life. It's small towns.
Small towns is called serenity. My husband leaves me for
a much younger woman in episode one and you find
out she's ultimately pregnant, and we go through this divorce,
(21:48):
but there's this whole resurgence of you know, me finding
love again and all of us just sort of navigating.
There's you know, we deal with all different real life issues,
you know, substance abuse and infidel and death and financial difficulties,
job opportunities. It's really just a slice of life and
(22:08):
about how you can be there for one another and
really support each other. And it you know, there is
an incredible amount of uh, you know, empathy and compassion
and and you know, we don't shy away from dealing
with the harder things, but we are always kind of
the unity and coming together and that sense of community
(22:31):
is always something that is really what I think is
a constant theme. And I work with amazing, amazing writers
and an incredible crew that has been with us since
the beginning most most like the majority of our crew
has been with us since the beginning. And and Heather
Hedley and Brooke Elliott play my best friends and they
(22:53):
are just so special to me. So it's really special.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's a sweet shoe and it's one that I'm really
really proud of and like you said, I meet people
every single day, you know, you got me through my divorce,
or I watched your show while I was in breast
cancer treatments, and you know it, I do. I feel
a great honor and I feel like I have just
it does matter to me. It's funny so many people
(23:20):
would be like it it bother you. Was at my
daughter's cheer competition this weekend and one of the women
was like, does it annoy you that people you know
talk to you? I said, no, I'm like, I get
it's an honor. It really is to just be able
to say thank you so much for watching this, but
also for sharing that piece of yourself. You know that
that I'm grateful that I have been able to be
(23:42):
a part of some difficult journeys and help, you know,
walk that by the side totally.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I mean, it's so special and I think, you know,
having people who can help you make sense of your
experiences whatever they're about, right, like if it's a big
life change or if it's great you dealing with the
loss of your parents. I mean, I think about the
community that I've had around me in the last couple
of years when like, there's nothing quite so arresting as
(24:11):
being like, oh, I've built I've built the life. I like,
I made the list, I did the things everyone says,
I did the manifestation stuff. I checked off all the boxes.
And it's like someone pulls the floor out from under
you and you're like, oh, none of it's real. Yeah,
oh my god. Like when you start to sort of
(24:33):
see things rather than like try to make them work,
it's so arresting. And to have people go through it,
you know, to watch people. Sometimes it's your friends on
a show, or it's strangers on the show, or someone
who writes a book or an article or whatever, and
it simply by being familiar, it makes you feel less alone.
(24:56):
And that is something I think is so special about
your show. It gives me the same nostalgia that like
my first show, I've now learned weirdly, like, as I've
gotten to understand it through the fans and then gone
back and rewatched it, I'm like, oh my god, I
get it now.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I didn't get it when I was making it, because
when I was making it, I was like doing script
breakdowns and you know, figuring out how to stay in
the two shot correctly, but totally like a viewer, I
get it, and it is something I think is so special.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It is it really really is. It's a great, great
gift and an honor. Do you feel like, I don't
know why I'm hearing to say this out loud, but
just and this is something that I think that is
so special about you? And even just my husband having
just briefly met you, he was like, she's such a
(25:48):
like real human and powerful human and you're so special.
And then do you feel like when you're like, I
had all this list, these boxes, I checked them all off,
did it? Did it? And it may have not been
consistent with what your ultimate destination was, but did it
make you feel really powerful and like key meal and strong? Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
No, So what I think I had to realize is
that much like and I know this isn't unique to me.
I know we all do this, and particularly when you
receive so much pushback for the quote specialness of your career,
people are like, it's not special at all, And you know,
whether they're calling us the Hollywood elite, where I'm like,
do y' all know how unions work and it's not
(26:36):
what you think it is? Or you know, they're they're saying,
like whatever horrible thing they're saying. What I realized is
the hyper sensitivity and the loneliness and the scars from
like my own bullying and othering and whatever as a
kid that I carried put me in a position of
(26:57):
being so self deprecating that I actually re my quote specialness.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, I even have.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
To like say quote specialness. I'm realizing I'm doing it
in real time, Like this would be like why are
you doing that?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Why are you doing that? Don't do that?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And so what I think it did was it made
me say, oh, if this, if this is like the
frequency I vibrate at, it makes people uncomfortable, so I'm
going to need to be here.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I got so accustomed to dimming myself that I didn't
even realize it made me an easy mark for people
who were like, oh, that's our way in, for someone
who could say like, oh, that's a way in where
then I can kind of I can. I can help
with the list, but I have I have an ulterior motive. Yeah,
(27:43):
And the gift of the grief is that I finally
tore up the list. Yeah, and it was like just
like your phone and your coworker's phone for no good reason,
in that exact moment, in real time, not like three
weeks later, in that moment said here's a sign. It
(28:04):
was like the moment I ripped it up, I was
suddenly surrounded by people ripping theirs up too. Yeah, and
it absolutely saved my life.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And I think when you can get on the other
side of something and say like, oh, I'm actually grateful
for even what was bad, Yeah, because it gave me
the future good.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, that's yeah, that's the thing that it's like, it
was all part of the journey, but god it is. Yeah.
I mean you have to have gratitude for every all
the steps you have to because and also a commitment
to just staying awake and aware. I think that's the thing,
(28:50):
is that you can have the twenty twenty, have the
gratitude for all of that, and also the forgiveness. I
feel like I really struggle with that with I hold
onto these things that I are just such a waste
of time. I'm tough on myself, and I think as
(29:10):
of late I've been like, just speak easy on yourself.
You know. I hold myself so deeply accountable that I
would never do that to my husband or my or
my best friends. I would be like, give yourself a break,
and I don't. I don't do that well enough. That's
I think, something that is in the present.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Happening for me right now and now for our sponsors.
I used to sort of I used to say this thing,
and then I realized I was wearing it as almost
a badge of honor. That was so sad. I'd say, well,
nobody's meaner to me than me. Oh, so it was like, oh,
internet trolls, you think daari, I tap you. I trust me,
(29:58):
Like this is child's play, honey. And then eventually I
was like, wait, but why, Yeah, but why I And
my word of the Year for twenty twenty four was gentleness.
I was like, I have to find a gentleness, a tenderness.
I have to I have to be willing to hold
myself the way I hold other people, whether they're my
(30:19):
best friends or someone I've barely known. And it really
has helped me make such a shift, and in a
weird way, it's made me a more hopeful person. Like
it's made me understand the stories of people that I'm
close to. You know that I might relate to like
(30:40):
there's a reasurns out. There's a reason I related to
love Warrior and then untamed so much. And then there's
a reason that you know people I've known in this sphere.
You know, some of my best friends who've been with
their person since college, or some of the folks out
in our world who have always been like a safe
place to land for me, like you where I'll watch
(31:02):
what your family's doing, and I'm like, I love that
I know people where it's worked for so long, because
that gives me hope, Like we talk about the next
twenty years of our careers. When I look at certain
stories like yours, or the sweetness of a family like
yours or some of my other friends, I get to
go like that feels fun for the next twenty years. Yeah,
(31:23):
like ah, And I know people I can ask questions
too about like when it worked, when they knew all
the things. I don't know most people who met their
person when we were like, you know, younger, all babies.
I mean you guys, we were thirty working on Gossip Girl.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Right, Yes, Like it's such a time in my.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Brain, you know, wild, and it's so I don't know,
it's so cool I'm like, oh man, it's nice to
kind of see that. No matter what, whether you've had
certain things figured out for a long time or you're
just figuring them out now, you've got people to lean
on who've been in their own parts of that journey.
It's never too late ever and for anything, Yeah, for anything.
(32:06):
And also there's a million people who've done this before you,
so you have you have people to lean on.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I just told my friend this who just had a
baby a couple days ago. I said, I promise you
my kids may have not gone through it, but someone
I know has, so just holler. You know, I'd be like, oh,
I don't know about that diaper rash, but let me like,
let me, let's take a picture of it. I think
I have a mom friend that you know, it's that
kind of connectivity. But also talking about relationships and sharing
(32:34):
the realities of like marriage and that type of partnerships
and the highs and the lows and you know the
truth to that. I think that's also really important because
you know, your word was gentleness for twenty twenty four,
mine was clarity. I experienced. It's just like there was
a relationship in my life that was starting to feel
(32:57):
I was a friendship and it just was starting to
feel mess See, it was starting to feel blurry, and
I hadn't had that in a really long time, and
I just really needed that sense of clarity. And for me,
it was all just about authenticity. And my husband and
I talk about it all the time. I'm like, you
could be whoever you want to be, good, bad, ugly, honestly,
(33:21):
Well it's irrelevant, but just show me who you are
so I know what I'm working with, you know whether
and and I don't. The smoke and mirrors was just
a really uneasy place for me and just not living
that truth and authenticity and so clarity for me was
my big thing where I was like, let's put things
(33:45):
a little bit more in focus. Things felt a little
bit blurry for me. But I do think that you know,
I've been with Nick fifteen years. Yeah, and we've had
a lot happen. I mean, credible highs, professionally, personally, desperate lows,
(34:07):
deep loss, not understanding each other in those moments, grieving differently,
you know, him retiring, and how we related to each other,
him being a thirty five year old man that was
used to trotting out on a field one hundred and
sixty two games a year to great fanfare, and all
of a sudden, it's like, are you gonna make that lunch?
(34:30):
The girls? Lunches need to be made? Can you feed
the dogs? Like not that he didn't do that before,
but it felt like that was sort of it was
a huge rock for us, like it rocked us. It
rocked him and rocked you know. And so I think
just there is such a beauty to be able to
connect authentic, authentically and work with that deep truth and
(34:54):
just real and be raw and real and like doing
it together and learning from one another, you know, because
not one person can fill all all the holes. I'm
married to like four people, my girlfriends, you know, like yeah,
my career in some ways, I'm married to Nack, like
(35:14):
I've like in a lot of ways, I have this
like deep genuine commitment to so many things in my life.
And so it is it is nice to be able
to just that's what like doing life together is, And
that's what I want my children to see. I want
them to have those people in their lives that they
feel safe with, that can that they've seen live and
(35:37):
walk the walk and do all of those things and
be able to connect with and learn from and you know,
not be everything for all of you. Know I don't.
I can't be everything for them.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Of course, it's really interesting. It kind of hits me
as you're talking about this because fifteen years for you
guys together is it's such an enormous chunk of life, right,
and as you said, you've seen each other through so
many things. Hillary and I talk about this a lot.
I mean, all of us, you know from our first
show do, but particularly she and I will talk a
(36:09):
lot about how we had all these hunches as young people,
and some of them were right and some of them
are wrong, and you know, thank god we've all been
able to grow up together. But part of my brain
in hearing you talk about your marriage and all these
life stages and parenting and all these life stages and
the sort of stages of career is I'm like, oh
my god, do you think part of the reason that
(36:34):
you've been so wise in terms of how to ride
those waves and what a life looks like is because you,
like you kind of instead of growing up just with
your peers, right, like we were essentially teenagers on a
team TV shower like you also grew.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Up with Reba.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You grew up with an intergenerational mentor you know, this
powerful woman who was older and wiser and had been
through all the things, and talk about somebody who knows
how to navigate, you know, a big life and a
public life as a mom. Now do you kind of
look back on her playing your TV mom and go,
oh my god, she taught me so much that I
(37:16):
didn't even realize at the time, or did you realize it?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I realized it. Yeah, okay. And by the way, I
don't know, because you would have to ask her too, Chris,
I'm sure. And there was there was times where, you know,
I was a kid on you know, her show, like
Steve and I were just bumbling around like Ding Dong's
you know, yeah, and every and and Chris Rich the
guy that plays the man that played my dad on
(37:39):
the show, and wilst petermant too, like they they just
always reminded us of how special like the opportunity was
because we were this was our first show, and you know,
He's like, this doesn't come around very often, so just
remember that. But Reva, to this day, I mean, we
are so interconnected and we are constant communication all of
(38:02):
us that we have your little group chat and we
talk all the time, and we you know in many ways,
like I know when I send them a picture of
I'm anna cry saying this, but I know that when
I send them like the picture of my kid at
the cheer competition, and they're really excited to get it. Yeah,
and that is having lost two people that are really
(38:26):
excited to get those things, like the parents, the grandparents.
You know, yeah, it's really special to have that. And
I can't believe I'm crying. It's okay, but yeah, Like
and Riba talk about authenticity, like never there is no
heir to her, no pretense, there's no a superstar, even
(38:52):
though she's so undeniably a superstar, she has lived her
life with such honesty and absolutely and I'm sure that
there were times where I know there were times you know,
a soul crush, soul crushing grief and you know, loss
of things, and but she's so she is so hopeful,
(39:16):
like watching her fall in love again with Rex, and uh,
like a kid, like a schoolgirl. You know, it's like
to be able to look back on your life and
and just say, you know, no matter what life threw
at me. I kind of grabbed it by the horns
and made the best of it and also remained like
(39:40):
excited and exuberant and joyful. And so did she teach
me what it was what it meant to be a
graceful leading lady and a powerful business woman who knew
her worth and a kind icon, yes, and spades. But
what also I thought was so special is so special
(40:02):
about hers that she's just so darn feel and humble
and and good. And she walked as a bridesmaid in
my wedding.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know, I'll ask you about that, come on, Yeah,
you know cool, yeah, so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Very special.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I mean, because you've had such an amazing career, do
you think having mentors like hers and the community that
you have has that kind of helped you navigate how
to do this stuff, how to be in this for
the long haul.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah. I feel really lucky, Like looking at the people
that I've come across and the people like that have
been a part of my team, like my my people there,
my family, and and so I feel like I have
been you know, on Riva when we started that, oh,
it was really popular to be like super skinny, and
(41:04):
you know, all of these things and I remember our
producers were like you. They said to me, there, Joey,
you were so beautiful. They were like, please, don't change
the only thing they asked that Steve and I didn't
have sex. They're like, it'll ruin everything, just don't hook
up love. I was like, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Meanwhile, we had producers begging everyone to fall in love
with each other so that no one would ever want
to leave the show or ask for our raise, and
our producers were trying to sleep with us at the
same time. What a fun zone.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
That would have been something to navigate some toxicrabbing bulls
by the horns.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
No, so toxic and by the way, like how I
wish we had been protected by like shooting on the
Warner Brothers line. I know, being isolated because for us,
And again I feel like she's coming up for me
so much. She's she's my Reba. Hillary and I talk
about this all the time because she left the show
first and when she went to work on White Collar
(41:59):
shell me and she was like, girl, it is so different,
Like I'm freaking out. And I was like, I'm trying
to make it different here and like I'm being told
I'm difficult. Yes, because I'm being like, don't touch the
girls at work, boss man, Like it was so wild
and it really was such a lifeline for me to
(42:20):
hear than in other places it was going differently. Yeah,
And I'm like, I don't know, I love I love
hearing stories like the one you're telling that you had
such good, protective bosses who mentored you instead of trying
to take advantage of you. Like more of that, please?
Good God?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I know. But don't you feel now that you've gone
on to lead other shows that you can bring that goodness? Oh? Yeah,
because I do feel a sense of a huge sense
of responsibility to move forward and like where where I
have been given the opportunity to set the tone and
sort of, you know, help create a culture that it's
(43:01):
like for me, I was able to bring what I
saw this extraordinary woman and what she's capable of doing
and what she does just so effortlessly. I was able
to bring all of that to my jobs and still
do to this day. I mean, oftentimes I'll be like
Ria McIntyre doesn't even do stuff like that. In my head,
(43:21):
I'll be like, you know, like, yes, you can't act
like that, you.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Know, don't tell me you've earned that, Like this woman
has earned all of it and she literally will you know,
help hold your hair if you got a puke, you know.
And so but but I definitely think that that is
a little part of the healing process and a.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Part of you know, you get to you get to
and you'll see that. I think in parenting too, if
that's like part of your journey, you'll you do get
to just be like, you know what, I kind of
sorted through all that crap, so you don't you don't
have to like let me just like put it in
a different light for you and let me just kind
(44:04):
of make that better for you and in a beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, And I think when those things get mirrored back
to you, you know, with your family and your workplace,
one of the things that I will carry with me forever.
You know. I got to be in every leadership role,
all of them at the same time on my last
CBS show, and you know, to lead a big network show,
you know how it is, it's like it's a lot
big deal and it's wild and it's an honor and
(44:32):
it's a lot of pressure. And one of the best
days I had on set when we were juggling a
bajillion things, and you know, on hour sixteen, Sweet Jordan,
my prop guy sidles up next to me and he goes,
you know, to work on a set like this run
by all of you women, He said, I see how
(44:53):
different it is for all of you, And it just
dawned on me. It's been a couple episodes, and I
don't think I've told you how different it is for
me too. Having you ladies in charge makes my life better, Aimen,
And I was.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Like, Jordan, You're like, darn right, that's it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And it was so cool, and it was one of
those moments where you go like, oh yeah, when we
when we make sure we're taking care of everybody who's
not normally taken care of, everybody just gets taken care
of better, even the people who are used to kind
of being at the top of the pyramid. That I
think is so special. And the idea that you got
to watch Riba do that and that you learn to
do that, and that you get to do that on
(45:32):
your set and you get to do that as a mom.
What an amazing sort of three hundred and sixty degree
view on your whole life, Like you said, on all
of your marriages. You know, you're married doing a mom
you're married to your actual husband. Hei nik, you're great,
you're married your career, you're married to like your mission
and your purpose. And they all are in this like flow.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yes, yeah, they are, and even and then when one
sort of like kitchen, you know, yeah, like you're like, okay,
hold on, I gotta I gotta kind of like address that,
and they're all the other ones are kind of flowing,
and it's like it is a little bit of a
symphony of just this. You know, it's all about healing.
I mean, that's what we're here to do, to hear
(46:16):
and to heal, to learn, to grow, to connect to
like just you know, experience this classroom together and and
if we can do that with as much kindness and
patience as possible. And that's also something that is not
like ingrained in me as patients. I'm just kind of
(46:36):
like a h and I feel like I sometimes missed
the like the details of the plot, and I'm like, dang,
that was really cool. And I just didn't even really
acknowledge it in the moment because I was impatient in
that moment. But I definitely feel like it's I think
it's all I care to kind of be into right now.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I love that is that it feels kind of like
a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yes, it does. And it's been this year. I write
in my newsletter for the Happy Place every month, but
this year especially, I looked back on my last year
and wow, my headspace was different. I was really depleted.
I was really I think I actually wrote like, not
(47:31):
is it the new year yet? Like it took me
a good two weeks to even be like, whoa, Okay,
we're in twenty twenty four. This year, I was like,
let's go, let's go. And I had the flu. I
got I started the year with the flu, and I
was like, let's do this. I'm like, we're not We're
we're not in indulging this, like we're moving forward, We're
getting through this. Like it just my sense of my
(47:55):
my bandwidth had sort of expanded. I wasn't as depleted.
And I think a lot about obviously had to do
with grief, but a lot of it had to do
with a lot of hard work and realization and forgiveness
and reflection that I did last year, and this year
I felt more full.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
We'll be back in just a minute. After a few
words from our favorite sponsors. I love that you brought
up the happy Place because it's the sort of thing
that just brings me joy. I've talked to people, you know,
people will say, like, what's something people don't know about you?
I unwind, especially when we're doing splits, which for our
(48:35):
friends out were like, you know, when you work from
noon to three in the morning on set, I'll get
home and I unwind by like picking a place on
a map and then designing like a fictitious house there
on Pinterest. I'm just like, I'm going to build a
house in Albuquerque reminiscent of Georgia o'keef's ghost Ranch, like
totally weird, totally nerdy.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
You and I could go down rabbit holes to year Like.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I actually can't wait. I'm like, we need a side text.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
So I was like, can we go on a girl's
trip and just do this together. Let's go. Literally, nothing
would bring me more joy. I'm not even bringing my phone.
I'm gonna be like, I am unavailable. We have work
to do.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, we'll bring like point and shoot cameras. And your
your lifestyle site makes me so happy because it focuses
on things that bring me pure creative joy. You know,
you look at home design projects, you look at like
beautiful things to cook, you talk to really inspiring women,
and I love that instead of starting a bunch of
secret Pinterest boards, you actually made the space that other
(49:32):
people can enjoy. How how did you a carve out
the time be decide that you were really going to
invest the resource of your time and energy into this?
Is it? Is it pure passion project that lets you
just feel creative?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Like? How does it?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
How does it work?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah? So it started as that. I mean, I think
that it was sort of a part of me that
I didn't really share with many people. And it was like, Okay,
this is going to be super designed ba because that's
what I felt like I should do. But The Happy
Place has saved me in so many ways, so many
times because it has. It's almost just it's funny because
(50:14):
you go to my regular Instagram page and I don't
share nearly as much, like you really get to know
me on the Happy Place. You see a lot more
in my life, a lot more of my personality of
my family because it feels so authentic to my story
and it's like my diary. I cook I'm not a chef,
but I cook all the time. I love arts and crafts,
(50:39):
so I share them. I love great home design. I
love women and their stories, and I think women are
the superior beings, just period and point blank. It's the
late place to like write, and I love reading, so
I share. But you know what's funny is part of
last year for me was forgiving myself for being so
(51:04):
hard on myself because in a lot of ways I
didn't feel like it reflected what it should have reflected.
It was sort of like, I don't want to use
it just for me. I was like, I wanted to
just give myself the freedom to just be who I am.
Share the smutty romance novel that I it didn't have
(51:27):
to be a book that like blew your mind or
anything more than just I enjoyed it, and so I
was trying to I've been trying to give myself permission
to just be me, and in that I've shared my grief,
I've shared my anxiety, I've shared my fears, I've shared
(51:49):
my excitement. I've shared, you know, my smoothie recipes that
feel so trivial, but it's actually I'm excited to say like,
this isn't a culinary masterpiece, but this is how I'm
getting my protein this morning. And you know, I love
avocado toast right now, so we're going to talk about
avocado toast. And so I just it's just allowing me
to just be me and and the people the community
(52:14):
is so positive and so supportive and so lovely, and
I find that it's really attracted that same energy we
don't really have like those trolls, you know, and I don't.
I'm not welcoming them and they're not welcome because it's
really just not a space for it. It's like there's
just not it's not a controversial place. It's a place
(52:34):
that you can come to be real that you can
come to just just take a deep breath and have
a little quick recipe or a cocktail with me or
a coffee with me, or hear about that I'm really sad,
or that I'm you know, struggling with my morning routine
and I'm like, let me just show you how it works,
(52:54):
or you know, it's it's not highly curated and perfect.
It's not. It's just authentic to who I am. And
it has it saved me in so many ways and
there are times where you can see I'm more inspired
than others. Oftentimes it's when I'm in Georgia by the water.
We have a lake house there and I just am
like overflowing with creativity there and that has been also
(53:18):
a learning lesson for me. So in many ways, it's
been like a reflection of what I need to hear,
what I need to know, and it's I think it's
the voice of what like I want to continue to
kind of explore.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
That means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I love that in a space where you get to
be your full self. You know, it's really interesting. My
partner says this to me, like, even in all the
years we were friends, friendly acquaintances, you know, whatever you
want to call it, it's interesting when someone who knows
you so well goes God, I thought I knew you,
and then I realized there's so much more to you,
(53:58):
and we're all guilty of like the Internet has convinced
us that we really know everything about people. And you know,
she'll be like you are so weird and so funny,
and like you seem so serious on Instagram, and I'm like, well,
because that's where I'm trying to like share the news
to make sure people understand what's going on in the
world around them.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Like, and I don't know, I don't even really.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Know where I'm going with this. It's not necessarily a
fully formed thought. Things are just coming up as you're talking.
And I'm realizing, like part of me wants to hide
and do nothing online because people will say what they
want even if it isn't true. People will be abusive,
they'll just be so awful. And then on the other side,
I'm like, God, it sounds really nice to have a
(54:41):
space where you can really be your full self, where
you can be incredibly astute and intellectual and also completely
silly and say like, this is the coolest wallpaper I've
ever seen in my life. Yeah, this is the best
pizza this week. Did you read that New York Times
article about this tariff whatever? Like we are we contain multitudes,
as the adage goes, and how nice that you have
(55:02):
a space where you get to be all of those things.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
It really it has been a gift, and it's not
it's only years in that I've like really can reflect
on it and say, I'm all in. I'm all in,
and this is what it is, and I'm not going
to shy away from it, and I'm going to be
who I am and just go for it. But also
(55:27):
I say that in the same bread of like it's
under the happy place, not my name, so you have
to get out, like I'm like, okay, Joe, call my
bullsh just be like okay, now start to share it
over there. But no, it is. It's a destination, is
what I call it all the time. It's a destination
just to come and be and share and you know,
(55:48):
it's nice. It's just to tease my heart.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well, and I think community is the thing that always
saves us, and so to build a space for community
is so important. And I hear it's expanding into production.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
What does it mean. We are actually in production now
with three movies that are based on a book series,
and it's really happening. It's really happening. So we are
just you know, in the process of optioning material and
getting it made. And and that is another There's so
(56:25):
many books and things that I read that I'm like, yes, wow,
this is so amazing. But then I'm thinking to myself, Okay,
what's consistent with like the ethos, the story, what's the
story here, what's the that broad strokes And so it
has been really fun curating that and and like leaning
into what my intuition is telling me about what needs
(56:47):
what I feel like we need to like spend our
time on and you know, you know, it's not easy
to get anything off the ground. And I also it's
been really a great joy as an executive producer on
these movies, not acting in them, to just be there
for actors too, Yes, because I do speak that language,
and I do know how important it feels, and I
(57:08):
know the process of like you could be so like
I'm so prepared just in general as a human and
then sometimes things come up like in the last minute.
And it's funny people that don't understand our types are like, whoa,
it's like coming out of nowhere, And it's like, well,
kind of it does. Because that's what you want. You
want an actor that things come out of nowhere and
(57:29):
hit you in a certain way because you know they're
in the moment and like, so it's been nice to
advocate in that way and set up up a warm
and loving environment for people to follow their dreams.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
You can.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, it's fun, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I'm also like, great, I have seventeen ideas for some
things that I'm just going to bring to you.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Let's go be here, Le's make up, Let's make up.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
I love it well, I mean, oh, I just feel
such joy for you and with you, and like, like,
what an exciting moment when you look at and it
doesn't necessarily have to be the year ahead, like your
to do list or what's in the calendar or things
with work, but I guess when you sort of look
in front of you this year or the big you know,
(58:18):
twenty years we spoke of earlier, when you're kind of
looking out at the horizon, what feels like your work
in progress right now?
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
No pressure, I know.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
I want to be a really present mom. That's super
important to me. So like just the parenting thing is
always going to be a work in progress because they've
changed so quickly and it's like WHOA, that one came
out of nowhere. But I think that I have this
voracious need to tell, to storytell, and not necessarily as
an actor, So I just I'm extremeeling extremely creative in
(58:56):
my moment and also trying to look back and and
know that you know, I'm being so wholly supported and
protected from the other side, and I actually am understanding that,
you know, it is it will inform everything how I parent,
how I live, how I walk in this world, everything
(59:20):
that that loss, but also that there is like great
creativity and power that's sort of being pushed from the
other side for me. And I think the work in
progress is going to just try to remind myself to
to not be so worried about trying to make something
that I think people you know want. I want to
(59:44):
just follow my heart and tell the stories that I
know without a shadow of a doubt that storytelling will
be the next twenty years for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah, to tell the story you want to tell, not
necessarily for what people are going to think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
And that's what happy places. And it just hit me
when your partner was saying to you, like, there's so
much more to you, which, by the way, I would
say that too, Like I'm like, yes, share that, you know,
that's like, it's just tell the story. The story changes
every day, fifteen times a day, yes, And there's beauty
(01:00:27):
and power to that, and it's it's important and we
are in these spots to be able to do that,
so we have a chance to But everyone should tell
their story, everyone should agree, even the ones we don't
want to listen to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Well, I think the more people that do the more
the more others are encouraged to do it too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yeah, I think people are going to really are wakening.
They're they're waking up to the truth. And it it's
not fast enough, because of course we're not. I'm not patient,
but I do think that there's going to be less
tolerance for the lack of authenticity and I think it's
going to reveal itself. I That is my prayer, Yeah,
(01:01:16):
that is my prayer.
Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hey Whipsmarties.
(00:15):
I am so excited to sit down today with a
woman I have known and admired for so long, not
only for her incredible career, but as a human who
was one of the very first people I met when
I started work as a little whipper snapper on the WB.
Today's guest is none other than Joanna Garcia Swisher. She
(00:37):
has an undeniable range as both a comedic and a
dramatic actress. She's one of those people who is so
naturally vibrant that you're drawn to her in every room,
and she has built such an incredible not only career,
but life, from her current role on Netflix's Sweet Magnolia's
to her beautiful lifestyle destination The Happy Place, with which
(01:00):
really explores what motivates us, what makes us feel amazing,
how we gather, how we enjoy, what it is to
be alive, to one of my very favorite things. Y'all know,
I don't really watch reality TV, but I did get
hooked on the Ultimatum Queer Love, and she hosted it,
and my goodness, did I love it. She does all
(01:21):
of it. She's a mom of two young girls. She
is a wife, she is a producer, she is a creator,
and I'm just so excited to sit down and talk
with her today about the twenty plus years we've known
each other, what her career has been like thus far,
and what she sees ahead in the next twenty Let's
sit down with Joe.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hello, I'm so excited to see you in your family's
well and I really's good.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, the girls are getting so big, eleven and eight.
It's wild. I know. I was just talking to Nick
last night and he was saying something about a car
and he's like, well, Emmy, I'll be driving in like
four years. And I thought, what did you just say
to me? I felt I felt like it was an assault.
I mean, granted, she's eleven, almost twelve, but I thought,
don't say that to me. Don't point that stuff out.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
That's too big a leap.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
I was like, no, sir, because you know how quickly
four years goes by. God willing by the way in this.
But I just thought, oh, gosh, but you know, we're
just good. It's good East Coast eleven.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, and you're loving it.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
We are. I mean, we're back home, and so it
feels right after I lost my dad and then my
mom and then my grandmother. Well my grandmother are two
weeks before my mom. It just felt like the right
thing to be home. I needed to be by my brother.
My in laws had moved to Tampa, so we came back.
And also I've been working in Georgia since twenty nineteen,
so it's like a hop skip, so we're kind of
(03:00):
splitting our time between there, and it feels feels like
the right spot. But every time I go back to
La just but I kind of just miss what we had,
Like you know, that era, that time where things were
just a little bit more simple, a lot more simple,
and yeah, and it was fun and stiff. So I
just I'm a nostalgic for that me too mean moments.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
It's interesting, though, when you talk about your girls, because
one of my favorite things to ask people is to
rewind and talk about childhood. And I realize, in all
the years I've known you, I've not really asked you
this question either, And I find that it's so interesting
when I get to talk to parents about this, because
(03:44):
they can look at their own childhood and also see
these sort of themes reflected in their children in present day.
So when when you look back, you know, at the
age your younger daughter is at nine, if you could
go and hang out with nine year old Joanna, would
you see the woman you are today in her? Would
(04:07):
you be like, oh my god, she's friendly and gathers
people and is so communicative and as a total performer
or was she like a totally different kid.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think there was probably all of that there, and
this sort of just like knowing that things were going
to be okay. But I was really picked on at
that time of my life, you know, and I feel
like I still carry those scars to this day of
just I was so emotional. And one of my friends
(04:39):
has a daughter who's like this, and I see it
a lot in her and I always kind of talk
to my friend through it, and people call her dramatic
and all of this stuff, and I'm like, yeah, but
that's what makes her so unique and special and she
feels so deeply, and so yeah, I think I see
a lot of that. I'm probably a little bit more
graceful now, a little, but I was a little bit
(05:01):
of a bull in a china shop, which I am
now still in certain ways. But I was like I
know what I want to do with my life. I
knew I had this utter sense of just faith that
everything was going to be okay. But it was hard.
It was really hard, and it definitely affected it still
(05:23):
does to this day, that sort of need to kind
of like please and fit in and all of those
little insecurities that creep up naturally. And then we choose
to do what we do for a living, which is
so forward facing and up for a million opinions, and
lord knows, we didn't even know back then when we
started this that the world would be like this, that
(05:43):
there would be so much access and conversation about us.
I mean, I feel like when we started on the
WB it was like message boards that you had to
like log into AOL about it. Just like you think
about how much the world has changed. But yeah, I
think that when I look back on my childhood, I
really felt now that I'm really just kind of digging
(06:06):
into it. My mom was just such a She was
like a getter done. She was like, what do you
want to do? She was so supportive, and I feel
like I have a lot of that like feral mom
energy and me where I'm like, you want to do this?
Let's go in, like, let's figure it out, let's go.
My husband had a little bit of that too, which
is not a great balance for us, so we tend
(06:29):
to kind of like go all over the place. But yeah,
I just I felt I felt like it was tough,
but I knew it was going to be okay. And
I kind of feel like that now. I guess I
just said that earlier. When we got on the phone.
I was like we started talking, I was like, this
is a hard moment. Yeah, but we're going to be okay.
(06:51):
And my dad really talked a lot about that too.
My dad was an immigrant, you know, he came over
when he was thirteen years old from Cuba, and he
saw a lot, a lot, a lot of things in
his life. And what I feel like, I know, especially
now having like my parents on the other side, that
(07:14):
I can endure a lot more than I feared a
lot of things that I just now know. I say
to my daughters. My daughter asked me if childbirth was painful.
I said, well, yeah, but she's like, I'm so scared
of it. And I was like, you're eight and by
the time you decide to have a baby, or if
that's what your choice is like, you'll be ready for it,
you can handle the pain. Put that, but let's bench
(07:36):
that one for now. But it is true because I
was so afraid of the idea of like, God, what
happens the day I lose my mom my dad. It's
going to be the worst, the worst, And it is.
But I'm still here, and I'm still living and still
thriving and still navigating life.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
And yeah, well, and I think there's something really interesting
to you know, the point that you make about sensitivity,
because it is hard to be sensitive to cruelty, to
be sensitive to the suffering of others, to feel the
weight of things in the world. But I think it
(08:13):
also can be such a leading force. It's the thing
that allows you to say, oh, this suffering is an injustice,
Oh this is a person I could show up for.
Oh I wish I wish someone had shown up for
me during X. And so when I see someone going
(08:34):
through it, I'll show up for them. And I think
that's it's a gift. It's not always easy to be
informed and conscious and tapped in and all the things,
but I do think it's the only way that things
get better. And so maybe that's why so many sensitive
people wind up in ways becoming artists and creating things
(08:58):
because to tell other people's stories is a it's a
way of showing up.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
Yeah, I mean not to I've shared this before, but
I had that there was a moment where I was
contemplating not wanting to act as much anymore. And I
didn't share that with anybody because that actually, even saying
it now is kind of a scary thing because I
don't feel that way now, just FYI. But I had
a healer, this really wonderful woman, and she said to me,
(09:25):
you know, what we do as artists, and not to
like make our job so important, but she said, it's
life is all about bumping up against each other and
honing our stones, and oftentimes people, you know, we're so
many people are just trying to survive right now, and
their escape is watching television, or their escape is you know,
(09:48):
going to a beautiful museum and you know, looking at
incredible art and learning about those things. And part of
what our I think gift is and our ability, like
the honor of what we do, is to be able
to kind of make people feel certain things because we
are able to hone stones just by allowing someone to
(10:09):
laugh or cry, or look at the world in a
little bit of a different way, or learn something. And
I think it is really important to It's not easy
to be so raw in touch and you know, literally
step into the pain and suffering of somebody else that
we don't know. You know, those are all they're great honors,
(10:31):
but it's not easy to do. And so but I
also think there's like value to it more than just entertainment.
And I do think that it's like an energetic sort
of healing that we have an opportunity to do and
to connect. And all I want to do right now
is tell stories that are relatable and too. You know,
they're not the coolest stories, maybe you're the hippist or
(10:52):
the ones that get the most attention, but they're the
ones that make people feel like less alone. And right now,
I just like that's so that's where I'm fitting in
and with my job, and also you know, trying to
raise two young women to look outside of themselves and
(11:12):
look further than their immediate radius, and by the way,
also also settle in and figure out how you can
help the person that's sitting right next right next to you.
Such a great honor to connect and it is a
huge responsibility. And so you and I think as we
get older we try to like protect our energy and
(11:33):
our peace and all of that. Yeah, that's that is
also a delicate dance. What do we have the bandwidth for? Yeah,
that's I'm so grateful to be surrounded by such strong, connected, aware,
awake people because it's like I got your back, you
got mine, and will kind of carry the burden, you know,
(11:54):
cover the terrain together.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
Yeah. Yeah, And you know, I think I get what
you mean. You know, we're so taught to not you know,
praise what we do or whatever, but I do think
it's important to love it. And I get that it's
not rocket science, and I get that it's not curing cancer.
But I've also sort of had to I had a
(12:18):
friend say this to me. One of my best friends
paid me a compliment and I did the thing that
women are taught to do, and immediately, you know, self deprecated.
And it happened to be a guy friend of mine,
and he was like, this is so interesting to me
that the difference, he said, do you not get that
(12:39):
I'm essentially I'm giving you a gift. It's like if
I handed you a present, and you immediately batted it
back into my hands. It would be insulting. Why do
you want to take this compliment and throw it right
back at me and immediately delegitimize it. And I had
to see that it could hurt someone else's feelings to
realize I was actually in validate.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
My own Yes, and I think about that.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
In terms of our work, and I've this is such
a gift of the experience that I've had with some
of the wonderful people I've gotten to meet around the
world who watch the things we make, and the number
of people who've said, in one version or another, well,
(13:23):
you might not be curing cancer, but I watched your
show through my cancer treatment. I was just going to
say that you might not be. And it's like, wait
a second, Oh my god. Yes we get to encourage empathy. Yes,
we get to step into other people's shoes. Yes, we
might get to show audiences people they don't know and
remind people that no one is other. But we also
(13:45):
do get to walk through things with people that so
many others don't. And when I went through my own
period of what you're talking about, of going, oh, I
love my job, but maybe I'm entering a phase in
my life where it's not really for me. Yeah, what
brought me back to how much I love my job
and what makes me more excited than ever for all
(14:06):
the things ahead was actually being reminded of how special
and sacred our job is. When the making it and
the things we've all as women been through on set
hit a sort of breaking point for me, and I
was like, I don't understand, Like, how can all these
people stand around and watch and say nothing? How can
(14:28):
this be acceptable or just the way it is? I
think I need a minute, and I gave myself a minute,
thank god. But what the beat taught me was like, oh,
part of why I hate when it's not being treated properly,
that the job, the environment, the women on the set,
(14:50):
all of it under the hit umbrella. Be concluded, I
guess it is because this is actually so special. It's
such a privilege. We're so lucky to do this thing
that connects us to people around the world. And like,
in a way I had to lean out for a second,
to lean in doubly.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
It literally was the exact what I at twenty nineteen.
It's exactly that realization for me. Wow, it was just
my tank was empty, and then I got Sweet Magnolia.
As they asked me to do this little show, I
had no idea what to expect. I knew one of
(15:28):
the directors on the show. I admired the women that
had already been cast, and I was like, kind of
one of those things for like three days, you have
three days to decide. I had Sailor was a baby.
I picked her up out of her cribs. I was like, Okay,
I got to read these scripts today, and it totally
reignited my commitment to what I think will be like
(15:51):
the next twenty years of my career and how and
knowing that, you know, telling stories that like I said,
it's a sweet it's a show about friendship and women
and sisterhood and family, but like there's so much truth
to it. And it just was like the right at
the right time, the right moment, the right time, and
(16:12):
everything kind of came together and I was like, this
is the type of storytelling. And in some ways, I
feel like I had been putting that out there and
like it was, you know, the law of attraction, like
I was welcoming into my life. But I thought, no,
this is it. This was an answer to a question
that I had had that I did that I wasn't
even articulating correctly, but it was just not settling. I
(16:36):
wasn't in my in the flow. And now I feel
one hundred percent the clarity is so there. Yeah, and
it makes sense now.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
And now a word from our sponsors that I really
enjoy and I think you will too. It's interesting because
even the way you talk about it. You said earlier
that you have nostalgia for that kind of beginning era
when we all started working and we were all on
(17:08):
the WV and you.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Know, all these things glossy and.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Interestingly, my brain was like, God, I get it. But
also I missed the era because I was in North Carolina, Carolina. Yeah,
I can see you guys like once a year when
you would come in.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's like at home totally. Yeah, that's true. That's a
good point.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
But the way you're talking about the show, it feels nostalgic. Yeah,
and I wonder if maybe that's part of why it
feels so special.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
So good.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Yeah, that's a great point. I'm going to marinate on
that a little bit because actually that I feel like
that kind of touches a little bit on my grief
and where I've been in, you know, like my life is.
The irony is that this incredible blessing came into my
life at the same time that I experienced the most
signial loss that I've ever even could have imagined. It
(18:03):
was like damn, bam bam. I mean and talk about
being untethered. You know, mom and dad are gone, grandmother's gone,
Everyone's like there and I'm just like, okay, I'm here,
and who's my anchor? You know. It was like really discombobulating,
and so I feel like maybe it always kind of
meant to be in that that I needed that like
(18:25):
touch back to where a safer time and easier time,
a special time I needed the balance.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
How interesting that you were going through this seismic shift
in your life, because I think, you know, I think
about this a lot, you know, knock on wood, I'm
I'm lucky to have both my parents, yes, And I
think about I am aware already that there is a
before and an after that when you lose your parents
(18:53):
and you're just speaking. It's weird. We're having this sort
of a cross time conversation in the present. You're you're
speaking from the after, and as I'm listening to you,
I'm like, well, no, wonder this amazing show about family
and friendship came to.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
You in this moment, Like, yeah, it saved me.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
For you to be able to be in that kind
of arena of love and to process emotion and to
just be present, It's like, Wow, what an amazing kind
of gift it is.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And also one of my co stars has lost both
had lost both of her parents too, and so few
of my friends at like my age, our age, like,
we don't we don't know that right, And I'll never
forget this season. We were on set together. We both
had our prop phones, which are obviously not connected at all,
but we were talking and we both brought up our
(19:52):
dads and we looked down at our prop phone and
he said, oh my god, Brook, I said, the date
my prop phone is the day that my dad died.
And she looked down at her prop phone and her
prop phone and it's the date that her dad died,
and I was like, we just started to ball. I was,
(20:13):
it was so beautiful and we just both said hi Dad,
like we hear you, we see you, we feel you.
But I it Yeah, and everything, I mean nothing is
for no reason. All of every step along the way
is a part of the big picture. And my only
(20:36):
goal is to be you know, humble and aware enough
to just or just I think just mostly just be
aware of the importance of it.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Yeah, oh my god, that's so incredible. And for the
folks at home, I realized we've gotten no surprise. Whenever
I see it, I don't care if it's like a
year or ti.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
We go so deep.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
We just start immediately like how's your heart? But for
the for our friends at home, who you know, there's
one million streamers and networks and things and whatever. If
someone hasn't seen the show, can you tell them about it?
And like, give us the lay of the land. Okay,
I'm realizing I'm not doing my job and like, no,
(21:19):
it's give me the project details. So I want to
do it before we keep leaning into the surround the
surrounding life.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Of course, Yes, sweet Mindalia is. It's on Netflix. It's
based on three best childhood best friends. They're like sisters
chosen family, and it's really about life. It's small towns.
Small towns is called serenity. My husband leaves me for
a much younger woman in episode one and you find
out she's ultimately pregnant, and we go through this divorce,
(21:48):
but there's this whole resurgence of you know, me finding
love again and all of us just sort of navigating.
There's you know, we deal with all different real life issues,
you know, substance abuse and infidel and death and financial difficulties,
job opportunities. It's really just a slice of life and
(22:08):
about how you can be there for one another and
really support each other. And it you know, there is
an incredible amount of uh, you know, empathy and compassion
and and you know, we don't shy away from dealing
with the harder things, but we are always kind of
the unity and coming together and that sense of community
(22:31):
is always something that is really what I think is
a constant theme. And I work with amazing, amazing writers
and an incredible crew that has been with us since
the beginning most most like the majority of our crew
has been with us since the beginning. And and Heather
Hedley and Brooke Elliott play my best friends and they
(22:53):
are just so special to me. So it's really special.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It's a sweet shoe and it's one that I'm really
really proud of and like you said, I meet people
every single day, you know, you got me through my divorce,
or I watched your show while I was in breast
cancer treatments, and you know it, I do. I feel
a great honor and I feel like I have just
it does matter to me. It's funny so many people
(23:20):
would be like it it bother you. Was at my
daughter's cheer competition this weekend and one of the women
was like, does it annoy you that people you know
talk to you? I said, no, I'm like, I get
it's an honor. It really is to just be able
to say thank you so much for watching this, but
also for sharing that piece of yourself. You know that
that I'm grateful that I have been able to be
(23:42):
a part of some difficult journeys and help, you know,
walk that by the side totally.
Speaker 1 (23:48):
I mean, it's so special and I think, you know,
having people who can help you make sense of your
experiences whatever they're about, right, like if it's a big
life change or if it's great you dealing with the
loss of your parents. I mean, I think about the
community that I've had around me in the last couple
of years when like, there's nothing quite so arresting as
(24:11):
being like, oh, I've built I've built the life. I like,
I made the list, I did the things everyone says,
I did the manifestation stuff. I checked off all the boxes.
And it's like someone pulls the floor out from under
you and you're like, oh, none of it's real. Yeah,
oh my god. Like when you start to sort of
(24:33):
see things rather than like try to make them work,
it's so arresting. And to have people go through it,
you know, to watch people. Sometimes it's your friends on
a show, or it's strangers on the show, or someone
who writes a book or an article or whatever, and
it simply by being familiar, it makes you feel less alone.
(24:56):
And that is something I think is so special about
your show. It gives me the same nostalgia that like
my first show, I've now learned weirdly, like, as I've
gotten to understand it through the fans and then gone
back and rewatched it, I'm like, oh my god, I
get it now.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I didn't get it when I was making it, because
when I was making it, I was like doing script
breakdowns and you know, figuring out how to stay in
the two shot correctly, but totally like a viewer, I
get it, and it is something I think is so special.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It is it really really is. It's a great, great
gift and an honor. Do you feel like, I don't
know why I'm hearing to say this out loud, but
just and this is something that I think that is
so special about you? And even just my husband having
just briefly met you, he was like, she's such a
(25:48):
like real human and powerful human and you're so special.
And then do you feel like when you're like, I
had all this list, these boxes, I checked them all off,
did it? Did it? And it may have not been
consistent with what your ultimate destination was, but did it
make you feel really powerful and like key meal and strong? Okay?
Speaker 1 (26:14):
No, So what I think I had to realize is
that much like and I know this isn't unique to me.
I know we all do this, and particularly when you
receive so much pushback for the quote specialness of your career,
people are like, it's not special at all, And you know,
whether they're calling us the Hollywood elite, where I'm like,
do y' all know how unions work and it's not
(26:36):
what you think it is? Or you know, they're they're saying,
like whatever horrible thing they're saying. What I realized is
the hyper sensitivity and the loneliness and the scars from
like my own bullying and othering and whatever as a
kid that I carried put me in a position of
(26:57):
being so self deprecating that I actually re my quote specialness.
Speaker 2 (27:03):
Yeah, I even have.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
To like say quote specialness. I'm realizing I'm doing it
in real time, Like this would be like why are
you doing that?
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Why are you doing that? Don't do that?
Speaker 1 (27:10):
And so what I think it did was it made
me say, oh, if this, if this is like the
frequency I vibrate at, it makes people uncomfortable, so I'm
going to need to be here.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
I got so accustomed to dimming myself that I didn't
even realize it made me an easy mark for people
who were like, oh, that's our way in, for someone
who could say like, oh, that's a way in where
then I can kind of I can. I can help
with the list, but I have I have an ulterior motive. Yeah,
(27:43):
And the gift of the grief is that I finally
tore up the list. Yeah, and it was like just
like your phone and your coworker's phone for no good reason,
in that exact moment, in real time, not like three
weeks later, in that moment said here's a sign. It
(28:04):
was like the moment I ripped it up, I was
suddenly surrounded by people ripping theirs up too. Yeah, and
it absolutely saved my life.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
And I think when you can get on the other
side of something and say like, oh, I'm actually grateful
for even what was bad, Yeah, because it gave me
the future good.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Well, that's yeah, that's the thing that it's like, it
was all part of the journey, but god it is. Yeah.
I mean you have to have gratitude for every all
the steps you have to because and also a commitment
to just staying awake and aware. I think that's the thing,
(28:50):
is that you can have the twenty twenty, have the
gratitude for all of that, and also the forgiveness. I
feel like I really struggle with that with I hold
onto these things that I are just such a waste
of time. I'm tough on myself, and I think as
(29:10):
of late I've been like, just speak easy on yourself.
You know. I hold myself so deeply accountable that I
would never do that to my husband or my or
my best friends. I would be like, give yourself a break,
and I don't. I don't do that well enough. That's
I think, something that is in the present.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Happening for me right now and now for our sponsors.
I used to sort of I used to say this thing,
and then I realized I was wearing it as almost
a badge of honor. That was so sad. I'd say, well,
nobody's meaner to me than me. Oh, so it was like, oh,
internet trolls, you think daari, I tap you. I trust me,
(29:58):
Like this is child's play, honey. And then eventually I
was like, wait, but why, Yeah, but why I And
my word of the Year for twenty twenty four was gentleness.
I was like, I have to find a gentleness, a tenderness.
I have to I have to be willing to hold
myself the way I hold other people, whether they're my
(30:19):
best friends or someone I've barely known. And it really
has helped me make such a shift, and in a
weird way, it's made me a more hopeful person. Like
it's made me understand the stories of people that I'm
close to. You know that I might relate to like
(30:40):
there's a reasurns out. There's a reason I related to
love Warrior and then untamed so much. And then there's
a reason that you know people I've known in this sphere.
You know, some of my best friends who've been with
their person since college, or some of the folks out
in our world who have always been like a safe
place to land for me, like you where I'll watch
(31:02):
what your family's doing, and I'm like, I love that
I know people where it's worked for so long, because
that gives me hope, Like we talk about the next
twenty years of our careers. When I look at certain
stories like yours, or the sweetness of a family like
yours or some of my other friends, I get to
go like that feels fun for the next twenty years. Yeah,
(31:23):
like ah, And I know people I can ask questions
too about like when it worked, when they knew all
the things. I don't know most people who met their
person when we were like, you know, younger, all babies.
I mean you guys, we were thirty working on Gossip Girl.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
Right, Yes, Like it's such a time in my.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Brain, you know, wild, and it's so I don't know,
it's so cool I'm like, oh man, it's nice to
kind of see that. No matter what, whether you've had
certain things figured out for a long time or you're
just figuring them out now, you've got people to lean
on who've been in their own parts of that journey.
It's never too late ever and for anything, Yeah, for anything.
(32:06):
And also there's a million people who've done this before you,
so you have you have people to lean on.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
I just told my friend this who just had a
baby a couple days ago. I said, I promise you
my kids may have not gone through it, but someone
I know has, so just holler. You know, I'd be like, oh,
I don't know about that diaper rash, but let me like,
let me, let's take a picture of it. I think
I have a mom friend that you know, it's that
kind of connectivity. But also talking about relationships and sharing
(32:34):
the realities of like marriage and that type of partnerships
and the highs and the lows and you know the
truth to that. I think that's also really important because
you know, your word was gentleness for twenty twenty four,
mine was clarity. I experienced. It's just like there was
a relationship in my life that was starting to feel
(32:57):
I was a friendship and it just was starting to
feel mess See, it was starting to feel blurry, and
I hadn't had that in a really long time, and
I just really needed that sense of clarity. And for me,
it was all just about authenticity. And my husband and
I talk about it all the time. I'm like, you
could be whoever you want to be, good, bad, ugly, honestly,
(33:21):
Well it's irrelevant, but just show me who you are
so I know what I'm working with, you know whether
and and I don't. The smoke and mirrors was just
a really uneasy place for me and just not living
that truth and authenticity and so clarity for me was
my big thing where I was like, let's put things
(33:45):
a little bit more in focus. Things felt a little
bit blurry for me. But I do think that you know,
I've been with Nick fifteen years. Yeah, and we've had
a lot happen. I mean, credible highs, professionally, personally, desperate lows,
(34:07):
deep loss, not understanding each other in those moments, grieving differently,
you know, him retiring, and how we related to each other,
him being a thirty five year old man that was
used to trotting out on a field one hundred and
sixty two games a year to great fanfare, and all
of a sudden, it's like, are you gonna make that lunch?
(34:30):
The girls? Lunches need to be made? Can you feed
the dogs? Like not that he didn't do that before,
but it felt like that was sort of it was
a huge rock for us, like it rocked us. It
rocked him and rocked you know. And so I think
just there is such a beauty to be able to
connect authentic, authentically and work with that deep truth and
(34:54):
just real and be raw and real and like doing
it together and learning from one another, you know, because
not one person can fill all all the holes. I'm
married to like four people, my girlfriends, you know, like yeah,
my career in some ways, I'm married to Nack, like
(35:14):
I've like in a lot of ways, I have this
like deep genuine commitment to so many things in my life.
And so it is it is nice to be able
to just that's what like doing life together is, And
that's what I want my children to see. I want
them to have those people in their lives that they
feel safe with, that can that they've seen live and
(35:37):
walk the walk and do all of those things and
be able to connect with and learn from and you know,
not be everything for all of you. Know I don't.
I can't be everything for them.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
Of course, it's really interesting. It kind of hits me
as you're talking about this because fifteen years for you
guys together is it's such an enormous chunk of life, right,
and as you said, you've seen each other through so
many things. Hillary and I talk about this a lot.
I mean, all of us, you know from our first
show do, but particularly she and I will talk a
(36:09):
lot about how we had all these hunches as young people,
and some of them were right and some of them
are wrong, and you know, thank god we've all been
able to grow up together. But part of my brain
in hearing you talk about your marriage and all these
life stages and parenting and all these life stages and
the sort of stages of career is I'm like, oh
my god, do you think part of the reason that
(36:34):
you've been so wise in terms of how to ride
those waves and what a life looks like is because you,
like you kind of instead of growing up just with
your peers, right, like we were essentially teenagers on a
team TV shower like you also grew.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Up with Reba.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
You grew up with an intergenerational mentor you know, this
powerful woman who was older and wiser and had been
through all the things, and talk about somebody who knows
how to navigate, you know, a big life and a
public life as a mom. Now do you kind of
look back on her playing your TV mom and go,
oh my god, she taught me so much that I
(37:16):
didn't even realize at the time, or did you realize it?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
I realized it. Yeah, okay. And by the way, I
don't know, because you would have to ask her too, Chris,
I'm sure. And there was there was times where, you know,
I was a kid on you know, her show, like
Steve and I were just bumbling around like Ding Dong's
you know, yeah, and every and and Chris Rich the
guy that plays the man that played my dad on
(37:39):
the show, and wilst petermant too, like they they just
always reminded us of how special like the opportunity was
because we were this was our first show, and you know,
He's like, this doesn't come around very often, so just
remember that. But Reva, to this day, I mean, we
are so interconnected and we are constant communication all of
(38:02):
us that we have your little group chat and we
talk all the time, and we you know in many ways,
like I know when I send them a picture of
I'm anna cry saying this, but I know that when
I send them like the picture of my kid at
the cheer competition, and they're really excited to get it. Yeah,
and that is having lost two people that are really
(38:26):
excited to get those things, like the parents, the grandparents.
You know, yeah, it's really special to have that. And
I can't believe I'm crying. It's okay, but yeah, Like
and Riba talk about authenticity, like never there is no
heir to her, no pretense, there's no a superstar, even
(38:52):
though she's so undeniably a superstar, she has lived her
life with such honesty and absolutely and I'm sure that
there were times where I know there were times you know,
a soul crush, soul crushing grief and you know, loss
of things, and but she's so she is so hopeful,
(39:16):
like watching her fall in love again with Rex, and uh,
like a kid, like a schoolgirl. You know, it's like
to be able to look back on your life and
and just say, you know, no matter what life threw
at me. I kind of grabbed it by the horns
and made the best of it and also remained like
(39:40):
excited and exuberant and joyful. And so did she teach
me what it was what it meant to be a
graceful leading lady and a powerful business woman who knew
her worth and a kind icon, yes, and spades. But
what also I thought was so special is so special
(40:02):
about hers that she's just so darn feel and humble
and and good. And she walked as a bridesmaid in
my wedding.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
You know, I'll ask you about that, come on, Yeah,
you know cool, yeah, so cool.
Speaker 2 (40:21):
Very special.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I mean, because you've had such an amazing career, do
you think having mentors like hers and the community that
you have has that kind of helped you navigate how
to do this stuff, how to be in this for
the long haul.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah. I feel really lucky, Like looking at the people
that I've come across and the people like that have
been a part of my team, like my my people there,
my family, and and so I feel like I have
been you know, on Riva when we started that, oh,
it was really popular to be like super skinny, and
(41:04):
you know, all of these things and I remember our
producers were like you. They said to me, there, Joey,
you were so beautiful. They were like, please, don't change
the only thing they asked that Steve and I didn't
have sex. They're like, it'll ruin everything, just don't hook
up love. I was like, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Meanwhile, we had producers begging everyone to fall in love
with each other so that no one would ever want
to leave the show or ask for our raise, and
our producers were trying to sleep with us at the
same time. What a fun zone.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
That would have been something to navigate some toxicrabbing bulls
by the horns.
Speaker 1 (41:39):
No, so toxic and by the way, like how I
wish we had been protected by like shooting on the
Warner Brothers line. I know, being isolated because for us,
And again I feel like she's coming up for me
so much. She's she's my Reba. Hillary and I talk
about this all the time because she left the show
first and when she went to work on White Collar
(41:59):
shell me and she was like, girl, it is so different,
Like I'm freaking out. And I was like, I'm trying
to make it different here and like I'm being told
I'm difficult. Yes, because I'm being like, don't touch the
girls at work, boss man, Like it was so wild
and it really was such a lifeline for me to
(42:20):
hear than in other places it was going differently. Yeah,
And I'm like, I don't know, I love I love
hearing stories like the one you're telling that you had
such good, protective bosses who mentored you instead of trying
to take advantage of you. Like more of that, please?
Good God?
Speaker 2 (42:40):
I know. But don't you feel now that you've gone
on to lead other shows that you can bring that goodness? Oh? Yeah,
because I do feel a sense of a huge sense
of responsibility to move forward and like where where I
have been given the opportunity to set the tone and
sort of, you know, help create a culture that it's
(43:01):
like for me, I was able to bring what I
saw this extraordinary woman and what she's capable of doing
and what she does just so effortlessly. I was able
to bring all of that to my jobs and still
do to this day. I mean, oftentimes I'll be like
Ria McIntyre doesn't even do stuff like that. In my head,
(43:21):
I'll be like, you know, like, yes, you can't act
like that, you.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
Know, don't tell me you've earned that, Like this woman
has earned all of it and she literally will you know,
help hold your hair if you got a puke, you know.
And so but but I definitely think that that is
a little part of the healing process and a.
Speaker 2 (43:41):
Part of you know, you get to you get to
and you'll see that. I think in parenting too, if
that's like part of your journey, you'll you do get
to just be like, you know what, I kind of
sorted through all that crap, so you don't you don't
have to like let me just like put it in
a different light for you and let me just kind
(44:04):
of make that better for you and in a beautiful way.
Speaker 1 (44:09):
Yeah, And I think when those things get mirrored back
to you, you know, with your family and your workplace,
one of the things that I will carry with me forever.
You know. I got to be in every leadership role,
all of them at the same time on my last
CBS show, and you know, to lead a big network show,
you know how it is, it's like it's a lot
big deal and it's wild and it's an honor and
(44:32):
it's a lot of pressure. And one of the best
days I had on set when we were juggling a
bajillion things, and you know, on hour sixteen, Sweet Jordan,
my prop guy sidles up next to me and he goes,
you know, to work on a set like this run
by all of you women, He said, I see how
(44:53):
different it is for all of you, And it just
dawned on me. It's been a couple episodes, and I
don't think I've told you how different it is for
me too. Having you ladies in charge makes my life better, Aimen,
And I was.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Like, Jordan, You're like, darn right, that's it.
Speaker 1 (45:11):
And it was so cool, and it was one of
those moments where you go like, oh yeah, when we
when we make sure we're taking care of everybody who's
not normally taken care of, everybody just gets taken care
of better, even the people who are used to kind
of being at the top of the pyramid. That I
think is so special. And the idea that you got
to watch Riba do that and that you learn to
do that, and that you get to do that on
(45:32):
your set and you get to do that as a mom.
What an amazing sort of three hundred and sixty degree
view on your whole life, Like you said, on all
of your marriages. You know, you're married doing a mom
you're married to your actual husband. Hei nik, you're great,
you're married your career, you're married to like your mission
and your purpose. And they all are in this like flow.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yes, yeah, they are, and even and then when one
sort of like kitchen, you know, yeah, like you're like, okay,
hold on, I gotta I gotta kind of like address that,
and they're all the other ones are kind of flowing,
and it's like it is a little bit of a
symphony of just this. You know, it's all about healing.
I mean, that's what we're here to do, to hear
(46:16):
and to heal, to learn, to grow, to connect to
like just you know, experience this classroom together and and
if we can do that with as much kindness and
patience as possible. And that's also something that is not
like ingrained in me as patients. I'm just kind of
(46:36):
like a h and I feel like I sometimes missed
the like the details of the plot, and I'm like, dang,
that was really cool. And I just didn't even really
acknowledge it in the moment because I was impatient in
that moment. But I definitely feel like it's I think
it's all I care to kind of be into right now.
Speaker 1 (47:02):
I love that is that it feels kind of like
a deep breath.
Speaker 2 (47:06):
Yes, it does. And it's been this year. I write
in my newsletter for the Happy Place every month, but
this year especially, I looked back on my last year
and wow, my headspace was different. I was really depleted.
I was really I think I actually wrote like, not
(47:31):
is it the new year yet? Like it took me
a good two weeks to even be like, whoa, Okay,
we're in twenty twenty four. This year, I was like,
let's go, let's go. And I had the flu. I
got I started the year with the flu, and I
was like, let's do this. I'm like, we're not We're
we're not in indulging this, like we're moving forward, We're
getting through this. Like it just my sense of my
(47:55):
my bandwidth had sort of expanded. I wasn't as depleted.
And I think a lot about obviously had to do
with grief, but a lot of it had to do
with a lot of hard work and realization and forgiveness
and reflection that I did last year, and this year
I felt more full.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
We'll be back in just a minute. After a few
words from our favorite sponsors. I love that you brought
up the happy Place because it's the sort of thing
that just brings me joy. I've talked to people, you know,
people will say, like, what's something people don't know about you?
I unwind, especially when we're doing splits, which for our
(48:35):
friends out were like, you know, when you work from
noon to three in the morning on set, I'll get
home and I unwind by like picking a place on
a map and then designing like a fictitious house there
on Pinterest. I'm just like, I'm going to build a
house in Albuquerque reminiscent of Georgia o'keef's ghost Ranch, like
totally weird, totally nerdy.
Speaker 2 (48:55):
You and I could go down rabbit holes to year Like.
Speaker 1 (48:57):
I actually can't wait. I'm like, we need a side text.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
So I was like, can we go on a girl's
trip and just do this together. Let's go. Literally, nothing
would bring me more joy. I'm not even bringing my phone.
I'm gonna be like, I am unavailable. We have work
to do.
Speaker 1 (49:10):
Yeah, we'll bring like point and shoot cameras. And your
your lifestyle site makes me so happy because it focuses
on things that bring me pure creative joy. You know,
you look at home design projects, you look at like
beautiful things to cook, you talk to really inspiring women,
and I love that instead of starting a bunch of
secret Pinterest boards, you actually made the space that other
(49:32):
people can enjoy. How how did you a carve out
the time be decide that you were really going to
invest the resource of your time and energy into this?
Is it? Is it pure passion project that lets you
just feel creative?
Speaker 2 (49:49):
Like? How does it?
Speaker 1 (49:51):
How does it work?
Speaker 2 (49:52):
Yeah? So it started as that. I mean, I think
that it was sort of a part of me that
I didn't really share with many people. And it was like, Okay,
this is going to be super designed ba because that's
what I felt like I should do. But The Happy
Place has saved me in so many ways, so many
times because it has. It's almost just it's funny because
(50:14):
you go to my regular Instagram page and I don't
share nearly as much, like you really get to know
me on the Happy Place. You see a lot more
in my life, a lot more of my personality of
my family because it feels so authentic to my story
and it's like my diary. I cook I'm not a chef,
but I cook all the time. I love arts and crafts,
(50:39):
so I share them. I love great home design. I
love women and their stories, and I think women are
the superior beings, just period and point blank. It's the
late place to like write, and I love reading, so
I share. But you know what's funny is part of
last year for me was forgiving myself for being so
(51:04):
hard on myself because in a lot of ways I
didn't feel like it reflected what it should have reflected.
It was sort of like, I don't want to use
it just for me. I was like, I wanted to
just give myself the freedom to just be who I am.
Share the smutty romance novel that I it didn't have
(51:27):
to be a book that like blew your mind or
anything more than just I enjoyed it, and so I
was trying to I've been trying to give myself permission
to just be me, and in that I've shared my grief,
I've shared my anxiety, I've shared my fears, I've shared
(51:49):
my excitement. I've shared, you know, my smoothie recipes that
feel so trivial, but it's actually I'm excited to say like,
this isn't a culinary masterpiece, but this is how I'm
getting my protein this morning. And you know, I love
avocado toast right now, so we're going to talk about
avocado toast. And so I just it's just allowing me
to just be me and and the people the community
(52:14):
is so positive and so supportive and so lovely, and
I find that it's really attracted that same energy we
don't really have like those trolls, you know, and I don't.
I'm not welcoming them and they're not welcome because it's
really just not a space for it. It's like there's
just not it's not a controversial place. It's a place
(52:34):
that you can come to be real that you can
come to just just take a deep breath and have
a little quick recipe or a cocktail with me or
a coffee with me, or hear about that I'm really sad,
or that I'm you know, struggling with my morning routine
and I'm like, let me just show you how it works,
(52:54):
or you know, it's it's not highly curated and perfect.
It's not. It's just authentic to who I am. And
it has it saved me in so many ways and
there are times where you can see I'm more inspired
than others. Oftentimes it's when I'm in Georgia by the water.
We have a lake house there and I just am
like overflowing with creativity there and that has been also
(53:18):
a learning lesson for me. So in many ways, it's
been like a reflection of what I need to hear,
what I need to know, and it's I think it's
the voice of what like I want to continue to
kind of explore.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (53:34):
That means a lot to me.
Speaker 1 (53:36):
I love that in a space where you get to
be your full self. You know, it's really interesting. My
partner says this to me, like, even in all the
years we were friends, friendly acquaintances, you know, whatever you
want to call it, it's interesting when someone who knows
you so well goes God, I thought I knew you,
and then I realized there's so much more to you,
(53:58):
and we're all guilty of like the Internet has convinced
us that we really know everything about people. And you know,
she'll be like you are so weird and so funny,
and like you seem so serious on Instagram, and I'm like, well,
because that's where I'm trying to like share the news
to make sure people understand what's going on in the
world around them.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Like, and I don't know, I don't even really.
Speaker 1 (54:21):
Know where I'm going with this. It's not necessarily a
fully formed thought. Things are just coming up as you're talking.
And I'm realizing, like part of me wants to hide
and do nothing online because people will say what they
want even if it isn't true. People will be abusive,
they'll just be so awful. And then on the other side,
I'm like, God, it sounds really nice to have a
(54:41):
space where you can really be your full self, where
you can be incredibly astute and intellectual and also completely
silly and say like, this is the coolest wallpaper I've
ever seen in my life. Yeah, this is the best
pizza this week. Did you read that New York Times
article about this tariff whatever? Like we are we contain multitudes,
as the adage goes, and how nice that you have
(55:02):
a space where you get to be all of those things.
Speaker 2 (55:05):
It really it has been a gift, and it's not
it's only years in that I've like really can reflect
on it and say, I'm all in. I'm all in,
and this is what it is, and I'm not going
to shy away from it, and I'm going to be
who I am and just go for it. But also
(55:27):
I say that in the same bread of like it's
under the happy place, not my name, so you have
to get out, like I'm like, okay, Joe, call my
bullsh just be like okay, now start to share it
over there. But no, it is. It's a destination, is
what I call it all the time. It's a destination
just to come and be and share and you know,
(55:48):
it's nice. It's just to tease my heart.
Speaker 1 (55:51):
Well, and I think community is the thing that always
saves us, and so to build a space for community
is so important. And I hear it's expanding into production.
Speaker 2 (56:02):
What does it mean. We are actually in production now
with three movies that are based on a book series,
and it's really happening. It's really happening. So we are
just you know, in the process of optioning material and
getting it made. And and that is another There's so
(56:25):
many books and things that I read that I'm like, yes, wow,
this is so amazing. But then I'm thinking to myself, Okay,
what's consistent with like the ethos, the story, what's the
story here, what's the that broad strokes And so it
has been really fun curating that and and like leaning
into what my intuition is telling me about what needs
(56:47):
what I feel like we need to like spend our
time on and you know, you know, it's not easy
to get anything off the ground. And I also it's
been really a great joy as an executive producer on
these movies, not acting in them, to just be there
for actors too, Yes, because I do speak that language,
and I do know how important it feels, and I
(57:08):
know the process of like you could be so like
I'm so prepared just in general as a human and
then sometimes things come up like in the last minute.
And it's funny people that don't understand our types are like, whoa,
it's like coming out of nowhere, And it's like, well,
kind of it does. Because that's what you want. You
want an actor that things come out of nowhere and
(57:29):
hit you in a certain way because you know they're
in the moment and like, so it's been nice to
advocate in that way and set up up a warm
and loving environment for people to follow their dreams.
Speaker 3 (57:44):
You can.
Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yeah, it's fun, it's really exciting.
Speaker 1 (57:47):
I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 2 (57:49):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
I'm also like, great, I have seventeen ideas for some
things that I'm just going to bring to you.
Speaker 2 (57:54):
Let's go be here, Le's make up, Let's make up.
Speaker 1 (57:57):
I love it well, I mean, oh, I just feel
such joy for you and with you, and like, like,
what an exciting moment when you look at and it
doesn't necessarily have to be the year ahead, like your
to do list or what's in the calendar or things
with work, but I guess when you sort of look
in front of you this year or the big you know,
(58:18):
twenty years we spoke of earlier, when you're kind of
looking out at the horizon, what feels like your work
in progress right now?
Speaker 2 (58:27):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (58:30):
No pressure, I know.
Speaker 2 (58:32):
I want to be a really present mom. That's super
important to me. So like just the parenting thing is
always going to be a work in progress because they've
changed so quickly and it's like WHOA, that one came
out of nowhere. But I think that I have this
voracious need to tell, to storytell, and not necessarily as
an actor, So I just I'm extremeeling extremely creative in
(58:56):
my moment and also trying to look back and and
know that you know, I'm being so wholly supported and
protected from the other side, and I actually am understanding that,
you know, it is it will inform everything how I parent,
how I live, how I walk in this world, everything
(59:20):
that that loss, but also that there is like great
creativity and power that's sort of being pushed from the
other side for me. And I think the work in
progress is going to just try to remind myself to
to not be so worried about trying to make something
that I think people you know want. I want to
(59:44):
just follow my heart and tell the stories that I
know without a shadow of a doubt that storytelling will
be the next twenty years for me for sure.
Speaker 1 (59:58):
Yeah, to tell the story you want to tell, not
necessarily for what people are going to think about it.
Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
And that's what happy places. And it just hit me
when your partner was saying to you, like, there's so
much more to you, which, by the way, I would
say that too, Like I'm like, yes, share that, you know,
that's like, it's just tell the story. The story changes
every day, fifteen times a day, yes, And there's beauty
(01:00:27):
and power to that, and it's it's important and we
are in these spots to be able to do that,
so we have a chance to But everyone should tell
their story, everyone should agree, even the ones we don't
want to listen to.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
Well, I think the more people that do the more
the more others are encouraged to do it too.
Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yeah, I think people are going to really are wakening.
They're they're waking up to the truth. And it it's
not fast enough, because of course we're not. I'm not patient,
but I do think that there's going to be less
tolerance for the lack of authenticity and I think it's
going to reveal itself. I That is my prayer, Yeah,
(01:01:16):
that is my prayer.
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Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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