September 19, 2024 • 58 mins
Rising country music artist Morgan Wade may seem like an overnight success, but it took a lot of hustle and hard work to get to where she is now.
The singer-songwriter chats with Sophia about being young and hungry to make it, and putting everything she had into kick-starting her career from booking her own shows, creating her own merch, and even building her own website! She reveals why her collaboration with Kesha felt like a full circle moment, and what it’s been like to tour with legends Alanis Morissette and Joan Jett. Plus, she shares that despite her busy schedule, she's already written her next record!
Morgan gets candid about the gauntlet of media exposure — from good to bad — and how she felt reading some of the more sensational headlines about herself. She also courageously shares about her personal road to sobriety, and opens up about her double mastectomy. Conversation topics that she hopes help others too.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Hello
whip smarties. Today I am joined by a woman that
I have been an admirer of for a long time
(00:20):
as a fan of her music and as a person
who really respects the way she has risen above a
lot in her life, and after today's conversation, I consider
her a new friend. Today we're joined by Morgan Wade.
She is an incredible musician who has really found herself
in the center of so many exciting things, touring with
(00:43):
Joan Jet and Alanis Morrissett. Her new album Obsessed is
out and it's beautiful and powerful, and it's a record
that she wrote all on her own, her third full
length album. In fact, it's the follow up to her
previous album, Psychopath. It's project that Morgan says really gets
to the essence of who she is as a musician,
(01:03):
a storyteller, and a human. As a listener, I think
it's perhaps the most raw and vulnerable I've ever heard her,
and I just absolutely think she is cementing her status
as one of country music's most distinctive talents, and she
happens to also be a really great human. She has
talked so openly with her fans about her journey into sobriety.
(01:25):
She just celebrated seven years sober, about her choice to
have a preventive double mistectomy to keep herself safe from
a cancer risk, and really about what it's like to
suddenly be thrust into the world of fame and how
hard it can be to be one person against the internet.
I am so grateful for her candor, for her willingness
(01:47):
to bring her whole self to conversation, and for the
example she says. I'm pretty excited today that I get
to tell her that she said an example even for me.
So with further ado, let's get to it with the
wonderful Morgan Wade. Well, Hi, it's so nice to finally
(02:16):
meet you. How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I'm doing good. How about you?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I've been traveling a lot for work, and I just like, oh,
the feeling I get when I think about you having
to tour and you manage your whole life in the
midst of it, Like.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Hats off to you. I don't know if I could
do it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's one of those things and it's like you get
kind of used to it, but at the same time
you don't. But it's like when I'm at home, I'm
good for like a week, and then I'm like, this
feels strange to be sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Totally totally, It's that weird thing, right, I think about that.
I'm constantly like, God, I just wish I could be home.
I wish I could have a routine, and then I
get home and I get antsy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah. I think that anybody that's like creative, that you know,
has to travel, whether it's filled yeah, you know, music
or any of that. I don't do too well at
home too.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I think when you're a creative, sitting still can
be tricky. I've started to even realize that if I, like,
if I have a little fidget tool or something, I
can sit for longer, But just sitting is hard.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah. No, I totally get it. If I have like
a mating or something and it's just on the phone,
I want laps. I'm on this you know, tour right now.
And so there's like these huge parking lots, and so
I will be walking circles all day in the security
guards and just stare at.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Me like like, what are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You weirdo? What are you doing. Yeah, I don't like sense.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Still yeah, well I feel you there. It's interesting like
for me figuring those things out about myself as an
adult makes certain things about my childhood and like my
attention span or whatever. Track a little more for me.
When you kind of sit in this amazing place, you know,
you're out on a tour, You're making music, you love,
(04:16):
people are obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
There's the exciting things I think that come with that,
and also the hard things that come with notoriety growing.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I feel for you, girl, But.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When you sort of sit here and look at your life,
like if you look back at your childhood, do you
feel like you see a through line like were you
always really artistic? Were you always wanting, you know, to
be up and moving? Did you always know you wanted
to make music or does your life now look completely
different than you thought it would when you were a
little kid, like eight or nine years old.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You know, I think I obviously knew that I wanted
to to be involved in music. I don't think I
knew what capacity that was gonna be. You know, I
always like when writing songs and pull them stories like
that when I was like little, but I didn't think
(05:17):
I could sing. I thought my voice was weird, so
I didn't sing for anybody. I was like very secretive
about it. But I enjoyed writing songs and you know,
playing my guitar in my room by myself, and I
just did it because I loved that. It wasn't like
I was trying to do that for anybody else. And
(05:37):
then eventually, once I got into college, I started drinking,
and then that liquid courage gave me that ability to
be like playing for my you know, my friends and
stuff at the dorm. And you know, it evolved. But
I don't think that I thought it would be this,
(05:58):
you know, But I just know I had a lot
of trouble sleeping as a kid, and my mom took
me to the doctor. It was like one of those
things and it was a severe OCD and like it
was a whole routine to go to bed, and of
course my parents were never getting any sleep because I
was like, oh, and so the doctor was telling me
(06:20):
ways to calm down, and he was like, you need
to think about something that you really want to do,
something you love that makes you happy. So I would
I would fall asleep every night picturing myself on a
stage and playing, and that's what I thought about every night.
And now I look at it, I'm like, okay, that
was kind of manifesting. Uh there a little bit, but
(06:42):
that's what I would fall asleep thinking about every night.
But I didn't grow up really in an area or
around anybody that did anything like that, so I didn't
think that that was, you know, possibility. And of course,
you know, it wasn't like I could get on the
Internet and you know videos on you know, how to
(07:05):
how to do that. It wasn't like things are now,
you know, But it was something I knew in my
head I wanted to do, but I didn't have that call.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, so when do you think that changed? Like if
you knew you wanted to be a musician and you
finally got comfortable starting to share music with people in college,
was was that when you felt like you were able
to say, oh, I really want to do this as
my career.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, for sure. Of course. You know. It was freshman
year of college and my mom I remember her being
when I came home and was like, Hey, I'm going
to go play this little show. She was like excuse me,
Like what are you? What are you talking about because
she was so like me Van, and I was like, yeah,
I'm going to go She was, what are you No,
(07:58):
I'm going to go sing? And she was very confused
by that, and so which I don't blame then, because
this came out of nowhere. And so I was like, yeah,
I don't really want to stay in school anymore, don't
want to finish college. And of course that was like, yeah,
I know you need to What are you talking about?
Just came out of nowhere, And of course I looked
back and I totally get it. At the time, I thought,
(08:20):
you know, my parents were crazy and everybody was being unfair.
And I ended up getting a bachelor's degree and I
did continue for four years, but every weekend I was out,
like playing shows. I pretended to be my own booking agent.
I have a fake email. I was like, I formed
a band on Craigslist. He's not really safe. Me and
(08:45):
two of my friends from class. There was an ad
that were looking for a singer, and I rode over
to a sketchy part of town and I went in
this guy's basement. And fortunately, this isn't like a you know,
crime podcast, and you're not like talking to my mom
and you know, I'm still here, but yeah, and it
(09:08):
just all kind of went from there. I like looked
back and it was like step by step for me,
but you know you eventually it just started to happen
and everything kind of fell into place.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And so what was sort of the journey like once
you started a band and really started to perform, Like
how did it happen?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You know, like I said, you know, the sort of
craiglist thing, and then it just kind of became taking
any kind of opportunity that I could get. So you know,
sometimes I look back and you know, you have like
moments where you're like, you know, you feel like kind
of drained and like what is the point. You know,
(09:55):
I had a tough year last year. Everything it was
like the whole way down kind of being known. And
then I was like and do I don't want to
do this anymore? Because I like look back at the beginning,
I was like I was so hungry for it. I
was like excited, Like if three people showed up and
were listening to me, I was like, I'm going to
make those three people like me. And I had to
(10:17):
kind of remember how that was but I I did.
I just took every opportunity I could get. And I
worked a job at a gym and I had to
be up at three point thirty every morning, yeah, five
days a week, and then had like once a month
on a Saturday, and I would do that and I
(10:37):
would sit in there and I would just send out
email after email after email, trying to get any gig
I can get. And so I just I did my
own merch. I did like everything I booked it. I
tried to build the website, like, I just put everything
I had into it, and things just started started to
(11:00):
kind of fall into place. And I mean there were
times that just absolutely sucked. Yeah, and then it was like,
you know, to me, it was just not giving up.
It was just like pushing and doing whatever I could
and honestly letting my songs kind of just speak to themselves.
They just kept writing. At the end of the day.
It was like, no matter what, I was writing music
(11:21):
and I was having fun at that point. But it
ended up I met a guy in Sava Vaden at
a music festival and he was just getting into producing
and he plays for Jason Isbel and that was a
huge fan and it ended up I had been playing
this song out like a wilder days, and people were
(11:44):
really like catching on to that song, they really liked it,
and that was the first song I ended up catching
him when he sat down to do a rite, and
then of course that ended up, you know, three years later,
two years later being a radio single, and it kind
of trades fired and then just everything went. It feels
like it went quickly, and then at the side, stuff
(12:05):
like it kind of voice. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, it's like they always say, it takes a decade
to become an overnight success, right, right, And it's so
much invisible work, like just so many things that people
don't see. And you know, the length of the road
you had to walk to get to this place where
you're sitting on a tour of bus, you know, out
(12:29):
going around the country.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
How has the adjustment of it been for you? And
I'm I'm curious because you know, one of the things
that I appreciate in people, and I think one of
the reasons I admire you is because you've stood very
vulnerably and honestly about your human experience. Like you've talked
about sobriety, you've talked about you know learning how to
(12:53):
cope with this sort of attention, all all of these big,
you know, journeys in state that you take. And I
feel for you because I also know like when you
go from the like in your line of work, when
you go from being reported on by CMT to being
reported on by TMZ, even if it's all bullsh it's
(13:15):
hard and it's stressful, and like, it's hard to accept
that people would rather embellish your life to the point
of turning you into someone you're not in the press
for clicks and cash, then care about what's true for
you and your life and respect your human identity as
(13:39):
a fragile, feeling person in the world. And like, I
don't know, I've been through this more than once in
the twenty years I've been on TV, and I've certainly
seen you go through it, and I'm just like, you know,
you still have to get out and get on stage
on tour every night and make people happy, Like how
(13:59):
how do you feel you're out How to make space
for your work and your life.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
When sometimes they get complicated like that.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Uh yeah, well I would sell Like last year when everything,
you know, kind of the media was popping off. I
definitely didn't want to go play. I had a show
like a few days later, and I was like, I
don't I really don't want to go. I don't want
to leave my house. I don't want to do anything
right now because it's just so bizarre. The only time
(14:30):
I had been in you know, stuff like that again
was pertaining to my music. It wasn't pertaining to you know,
gossip calling as any of that stuff. So I just
it was it was such a weird, a weird thing,
but I went, and you know, of course it was.
It was different because the people that were there listening
(14:52):
to me, we were fans, and they just honestly did
not care. They were more so, hey are you good? Yeah? Up?
You do the meet and greets, and they're not in
there asking me questions. They're in there like how are
you doing, how your sobariety like kind of checking in.
So it was like good for me, but I was
also I can't let other people win. Yeah, it was
(15:16):
a it's been a really like difficult experience, but now
I'm just like numb to it. And I had to
kind of sit back and laugh and like, you guys
are kind of grasping at straws at this point. But
it was definitely, uh a weird, really weird time because
it's like you go to bed and then you wake
(15:37):
up and it's all the stuff like everywhere. And but
it's been good for me too, just in the sense of, uh,
I think it's been. It's been. I have a tracker
on it because I was, like, you know, super addicted
to just getting on the internet, just scrolling, whether it
was looking and trying to read and just feeling bad
(15:58):
about myself and then being like, well, this isn't even
prove but I'm sitting here feeling bad about it. So
I've been on that seventy one days. I took everything
on my phone. I'll let my team run it, and
I've gotten an ore done and they blast seventy one
days and you know anything, and I don't miss it.
I don't know. I might log back into Instagram one day,
(16:18):
but as of now, like, I'm really content about it.
You were wasted a lot of time, just even if
it was just videos and dogs that I would watch, Yeah,
so much. Nine.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yeah. Well, it's it's so easy to escape into those spaces.
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Maybe it's because to be an artist, you have to
be sensitive, you know. I don't know why so many
of us are so much more sensitive to the negativity
than whatever the positivity is, but I know, at least
for me, like realizing that my.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Justice complex, as.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
My therapist likes to call it, like I am obs
obsessed with justice and truth and believe, you know, we
should be good to people and so like that thing
gets really fired up in me when I know that
things are being said about my life that are just
not true, and like to your point, when they're grasping
(17:16):
at straws. Like when I started to look at some
of it for me last year, I was like, what
are we talking about? Like how I can't sneak into
an event that's being photographed with anybody, let alone when
I show up with a group of nine friends.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Who's sneaking around?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Or like, you know, it's just everything was so surreal,
including like you know, I had storylines about like oh,
you know, the chemistry. Upon meeting I was like, did
I just meet my friend of five years at this event?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Like what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It was all just so surreal for me, and I
guess what I'm What I find so interesting is like
we all go, well, why are we doing this?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Like why am I even paying it any mind?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yet we all feel so wounded by by it, and
it's like, I don't know, it's like the golden handcuffs, right,
Like you're online so you can do the work you love,
but the online life hurts your ability to like even
exist as a person, let alone to do your job, right.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I mean, I uh, I just one day like turn
everything off and I was just sitting there and I
was like, see, it doesn't really exist. It does not
really exist. It's just this like place. It's just like
logging on to this you know, video game or so
those you can cut it off. It really will not
(18:49):
affect you unless you unless you let it, which is
so easy to say. And I have these moments where
I'm like yes, and then you know, and I look back.
A lot of it, I think is is like deep
rooted childhood stuff where I wanted to be you know
that you want to be loved so bad and you
I would have done anything just to I didn't want
anybody to be mad at me. I was like always
(19:10):
thinking someone was mad at me, and so it was
a lot of that. So then to to all of
a sudden be thrust into that and to think, well,
all these people hate me for you know, I don't
understand why. I was like, I don't know me. Like
if you met me and half of them, like you
met me on the street, you wouldn't say that to me.
(19:32):
You would, you would understand that I'm actually, you know,
a nice person despite the resting bitch face, Like but
it's yeah, it's uh. I will say. Last year, seeing
like everything to that you were going through, uh, was
(19:52):
a little helpful to me to not not that I'm
glad you went through that, but it was like, Okay,
there's other people going through yeah, similar stub and they're
still alive and they're doing good.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think you will too.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And I think what was so interesting for me to
start to realize was, you know, like I came of
age essentially in public on an early aughts teen drama.
Like people die for the any version of anybody's life
that they can make feel like it's the teen drama
(20:38):
offline or off screen they.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Love because it's profitable.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And I thought I understood that dynamic and like you know,
for like even for your friendship with Kyle or relationship
or whatever however you want to define it. I realized,
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like,
I feel like her world tends to operate in that
space too, like they want the fodder and they forget
(21:04):
that it's about people. And I don't know, like I
thought I understood how toxic all that was until I
saw those worlds mobilize against all women and I was like, oh,
I thought the misogyny was breathtaking before. In the world
of tabloids, it's it's like compounded to the nth degree
(21:29):
when you just have women to talk about, like you
guys are garbage people.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Oh it was. I mean, yeah, the things the headlines
that I was like reading and I was like, why
is it okay for you to say that it was?
I don't know, it was. It was really And then
you know there will be people on the internet being like,
well they're paying or they're calling, Oh yeah, they're asking people.
(21:56):
WAS like, shut up, Like you have absolutely have no
idea what you're talking about right now. I'm like, I know,
I have never called the paparazzi. I don'ly I would
not know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I think people also don't understand it's it's immensely painful
to be treated like a commodity rather than a person.
And it's also really scary to get stalked, like and
that's what that is. Like for some reason, we have
this word, you know, we call them paparazzi. But like
when you get stoked, when you when you wind up
(22:28):
in like car chases trying to get away from people,
when you when people follow you into like private spaces,
it's actually quite scary. And a lot of people are like, oh,
you know, well, well privilege this famous that, and you're like, okay,
you come do it for a day and see how
you like it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, I was followed from West Hollywood to Pasadena
one day. The dude followed me all the way there
to go to the studio. Yeah, I'm like, dude, you
follow me from home?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Wait, do you record in Pasadena?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I did. I did a couple of things for the
new record out there, So.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Okay, I did. I did junior high in high school
in Pasadena. So this is full sidetrack.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
There's my ADHD brand and like squirrel.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, and I you know, I go back and forth
between like Nashville and then I can get some stuff
done in LA. So we were on the road and
we happened to AB to get some stuff out there.
But I don't remember the first time because there's there's
a guy that hangs out at Lax Airport.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Oh yeah, and the term I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Know if you've seen that dude, but he just hangs
out there.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And video camera guy.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, video camera yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget his name.
We ended up when day I was like, do you
live here? Man? I was like what what's what's your name?
Was like good God, because the first time I was
there and I landed and I was coming through there
and people like they and I was like at all
in my Sweatland's the day I was like, I did
(24:04):
not call anybody. I've been on a plane for like
six hours.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
What I think people in the.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Out in the you know world don't understand is we're
not the ones calling. It's video camera guy pays somebody
who's making minimum wage at the airline to call and say,
these are the people on our flight today, because look
like we can stay in hotels under aliases and all
you cannot fly under an alias that is a federal offense,
(24:33):
so like they know when you're on a plane, and
you know, people are making money however they're making it.
But I do think I just really appreciate that you've
been open about how hard it is to be picked
apart like that and to be to be turned into
like a caricature of yourself, like what was really hard
(24:55):
for me last year? And you know, I don't know
obviously the details of your circumstance, but I do know that,
like it's a really long road to end something or
leave something with someone that you have loved and tried
to make things work with. And like, man, for me,
just having like the saddest, hardest time be turned into
(25:20):
something like salacious, you know, to feel like what a
precious gift that like a group of women saved my
life at my lowest when I was like, if I
do this for one more day, I'm just going to die.
And I realized how many other people were feeling that way.
We're feeling so tortured and sad in their homes and
(25:40):
like the like lifeblood of having support and the gift
of watching other people be courageous, because courage can be contagious,
like those things I want to talk about is so sacred,
and then they get turned into like icky, sticky gross
out in the world.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And I'm like, that's just so sad, and like why
are we like this?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And why are we like this to women? Why are
we like this?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Man?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I remember when for this k oh, yeah, all the cave, Middleton,
all that was. Everybody was like where's she? And I'm like,
stop it? And then she feels I had cancer. I'm like,
you see how sick that was has cancer? And we're
so where is she at? What is she doing?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And I'm like stop you were just because you're just
not a title to know anything. And that's why I'm like,
I don't say I'm like you guys, don't I'm not
saying anything anything unless.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
You don't. It's not it's not you.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And that was what was really interesting, is like for me,
I know, once the train leaves the station, there's kind
of like no good way to deal with it. But
like I really had to sit, and I sat for
a long time because I was like, there's a few
things at play here. I don't even know what's happening
in my world yet, so I don't know how to
talk to you about it as I figure it out.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I should have the space to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And then there was this other thing where I was like, well,
the misogyny is breathtaking because it's all women. And also
there's this thing of like it's twenty twenty four, you know,
I guess twenty twenty three. And I'm like, and you
want to like out someone for sport.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I'm a grown up.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm really secure in myself. But like, what about kids
who kill themselves over these things? Like this is not
a light thing that they are seeing happen to someone
who is in the public eye, who they probably perceive
as having like privilege or power, And it's happening to me,
So what's going to happen to them?
Speaker 4 (27:44):
And then I was like, are you trying to make
me ashamed?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I was like, oh, if you thought like outing me
at the top of a journey was gonna make me
feel ashamed, like I'll sit and be quiet and figure
out my life. But once I haven't figured out, like,
watch me be proud, bitches. I hope you choke on
my pride. I hope you enjoy it. Like I'm just
(28:06):
gonna flip the.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Script on you.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I'm not going to play this game, and like, I
don't know this thing that we expect to know the
details of people's lives, but also that we don't give
people a minute to figure them out. Like if you're
an anonymous person, you get to like figure out your
life and then talk about it when you're ready, And
that shifts for us, And like for some reason, people
(28:30):
want to focus on the things that are the least
important instead of the most And I think for you,
especially bringing up like the Cape Middleton of it all,
like I know how personal that is for you, because
people want to focus on like where is she, what's this?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
What's that she's dealing with? An illness?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
People want to chatter chatter chatter about your life, and like,
you know how hard that is. You've talked so openly
about how last year you underwent a preventative double mastectomy
because of a gene mutation that would make it it's
so likely to for you to suffer from cancer.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
And like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I wondered if watching her go through all that, given
what you were going through, both like in the press
and also in your personal literal health life, felt wild
for you. So it's interesting to hear you bring that up.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, I just and I think I learned a lesson
to because until it's built with the gossips and all
of that, sure I would have sat back and gone,
oh yeah, let me see. I'm so curious about like
this person getting a divorced. Is this person what are
(29:43):
they doing? Is this for? You know? And just like
reading these tabloids and then now I'm like, no, no,
I don't believe anything I read. Leave them alone. I
just don't believe anything. And I don't I don't engage
in it because I remember, you know, the thing is
is it's like that's somebody's daughter, that's somebody's mom, that's
(30:08):
someone's sister, that's somebody's everything. That's a real human being.
And I was like, and we're picking on the part
and we're just it's yeah, I can't. I can't, and
it you know, I don't. The internet can be like
such a and it's such a like you said earlier,
it's it's so weird because it's like the internet helps
(30:30):
so much with your career. I mean you basically, if
you're not on TikTok or doing something, the label is
like on your ask about it. But it's also it's
like this fine line and I just think with me personally,
for my addictive personality, it's just not yeah, it's not
a good move for me.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's it can be heavy.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. One of my friends and I talked about
the internet is like when you really get in that
loop and you realize you're on it too much, Like
(31:15):
it's basically just like emotional cutting, like it's a self
harm kind of thing, and like that, I think when
you start to think about it in that way, and
I imagine especially for you, you know, being seven years sober,
by the way, congratulations, seven is a big number. When
you can identify like, oh, this is making me feel
like that bad thing, it probably feels important to shift
(31:38):
your habits. What made you decide to quit drinking? Like
was it a feeling you had? Was it like a moment?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Was it like a journey to go, Oh, I think
maybe this is just.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Not for me, So I didn't. I started drinking like
my brushman years and then I was like, oh, I'm
pretty good at this. And then I started doing the
whole like weekends playing shows, and of course, you know
I was underage, but that does that even matter? Right?
(32:14):
But a lot of these venues stuff, I wasn't getting paid,
but it was like you can have a free bar
pab so like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm like, okay, so
I'm getting all this. I'm a college student on the
weekend is getting all this free beer? Like absolutely, you know.
I started taking advantage of that, and it just became
I was like, okay, I'm good at this and I
(32:34):
like it, and I like how I, you know, can
act and how out knowing I am when I'm drinking.
And then it just started to become this thing where
that I get home like what, you know, what have
you been doing? I started kind of going down and
pass and then I was like all right, I'm gonna
not drink. Let's not drink. And I woke up face
(32:59):
down in a parking lot with people shaking me trying
to get me to wake up. I had played a show,
and I was like, all right, I was pretty good
at hiding how much I had drank to you know,
I'm pretty good at making it a little. I get
the same drink in my head and I was like
I'm going to drive home see guys, and they woke
me up my space out in the parking lot, you know,
(33:19):
in my own vomit and I was like, already, can't stop.
And so I didn't drink for a couple of weeks,
and then it was like, okay, I'm good. I want
to you know, it's like I could not do it.
And so I went to New York for the first
time and played these really crappy shows. You know. I
(33:41):
was just excited, and you know, of course, I drank
more that night than I've ever drank. And I woke
up the next morning and I was just like you
you I felt I don't know, it was the weirdest
feeling I've ever had. I've never felt like that since,
but it was it was very much like you have
to kill yourself and that it was this crazy like
(34:04):
dark feeling and it was like you you you You've
got it, this is it, this is it, and you're
not gonna And I felt like that for days and
I was like, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna drink anymore.
I was like, I've gotta is that. What this is
is that what this feeling is like the depression was
just so heavy from that, and I was, you know,
obviously I've always had a lot of you know, OCD anxiety,
(34:28):
and so then obviously you go drink all this, yeah,
and then the coming down from that is just it
makes it ten times worse. And that feeling lasted for
like two weeks, and I did not drink, I didn't
touch anything. I got back home and I was like, okay,
what what what do I do? So I went and
got like all the sobriety books and I was like,
(34:50):
You're gonna learn to love sparkling water. We're we're gonna
like be that asshole that just drank sparkling water and
that's it. And I I just engrossed myself in it.
And it was hard. And then of course it was
hard to when your friends are like, yeah, okay, and
then you know, they're kind of some of them were like, well, problem,
(35:11):
you just you need to chill, And I'm like, no,
I if there's something I don't want to do and
I can't stop, and that's a problem.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And I remember texting my my mom and my grandma
and my aunt in a group message that said, hey,
I'm gonna I'm gonna stop drinking, and they were like,
thank god, we've been hoping. And I was like, I
was like, all right, when you when you see stuff
like that, you're like okay, And I literally I just
(35:39):
I was like, all right, get up early and go
to the gym every day and just really starting to
get on this this routine. And again it's been hard.
I mean last year, I seriously didn't think I was
going to remain sober. There was several that I was like, yeah,
(36:02):
maybe want to drink. I just you know, I just wanted.
I was like, what does it matter anymore? And think
thank god, you know, I got through those moments that
have people in my life that I was, you know,
able to talk to. But I think I think too.
When you first get sober, it's like, obviously not easy,
but you can remember why you're not drinking and the reasoning.
(36:24):
But the further along I get, you start to be like, well,
maybe I'm different, you have changed. Maybe I get handle
a drink or two, and then you know, I have
a relapsed dream and I wake up and I'm like
the alcohol that it never tastes good, and as soon
as I do it, I just destroyed. Every time so
I'm like, I feel like I need those dreams.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, that's actually really kind of amazing that you get
to key into your subconscious like that, because you know,
in hindsight, it's like, of course, everything feels real clear
in hindsight. Right, you can go, you can look back,
can be like, wow, maybe all these things like we're
happening for a reason before I saw it. Maybe you
know it can be the great things. But I also
(37:07):
think to your point, like, addiction is kind of like
being an abusive relationship. This thing continues to harm you,
but like years after you're out of the abusive relationship,
you might look back a little more fondly on the
happy times.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
And that's the danger. And so I absolutely get Yeah,
I get what you're saying there for sure. How is
it now, like seven years in.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Because you've been public about it, and because you know,
you've got a good crew of people around you, like
your collaborators, producers, the folks you work with, friends, family, Like,
do you feel like you're in a really good situation
with it where people instead of saying yeah, come on
not you are are like yeah, you and we're going
to support you. We're going to be here for you,
(38:00):
We're gonna make sure we can help you maintain this
or does it feel like more of an individual path.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean it's obviously an individual, but I mean it
was everybody around me very much keeps an eye on me.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
It's very like everybody knows I'm sober and we don't.
I mean, I don't even think there's any like alcohol
on the bus. I also don't want to be that person,
and I made it very clear of hey, I don't
care if you drink around me, because the thing is
that I have to be able to be strong in
that sense. I can't. I'm like, I play music for
(38:44):
a litting. It's everyone's drinking at the venus. There's bars
and that is great, and you know, I'm not going
to see what if you shouldn't drink. There's some people
that can go have a glass of wine or do whatever,
and they're they're fine. I'm not. So it is our
verse on journey. But everyone around me has been super great.
I mean, for you know, my sober anniversary, I mean
(39:09):
people in VAP I had so many people bringing me
like gifts and arts, and then they got me My
team got me a cake red velvet cake for my
seven years. So I feel very very supportive. And every
year I know I have this I like to go
buy me something nice. Is as a little a little gift.
(39:33):
I'm like, all right, you got to go buy yourself
something nice, flurage on something as a little as a
little gift.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah, it's like an anniversary present.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, yeah, for myself and that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So being you know, on the other side of last year,
you know, with your health stuff, being back on tour, Like,
how has this next phase felt? Because I read the
you wrote every song on the new album I'm obsessed solo,
So like, do you do you feel like you're just
(40:08):
in this whole new phase, like you walked through the
fire and you came out so much stronger.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm a hundred times better than I was,
you know, I there's not even there's no comparison. So,
you know, as much as it's uh, it sucked, you know,
I've got to thank a lot of those people because
(40:34):
I'm like, now I I can handle anything. I'm like
what Also, I'm like, what what else? There's nothing worse
that could happen at this point as far as like
the media stuff, and you know, I had to really
sit back and look at it. I was like, there
are people starving, there are people being murdered, you know,
(40:56):
they're they're overseas. It's just like there's so watched stuff.
There's there's children in war zones and all these people
being hurt. And I was like, I wake up and
I have my coffee and I do all this and
I'm like, so what trolls on the internet are talking
smack about me? I was like, I have a stove blasted.
And when you look at things from that perspective, and
(41:17):
I'm like, who cares? Just it? Also, you know, it
just makes you be like, hey, there's so much more
to life. There's so much more that you need to do,
and who just it's I had to get out of
the woe as me mentality, and I would say, you know,
I think it was good for me to process that
and be able to sit. But you know, when everything
(41:38):
started happening, I just remember that was the day all
this crap started like blowing up. I was with my
family and I don't get much time like that with
my mom, my stepdad and my siblings, and like my
actual you know, my my dad and Stepmam were there
so like all my hairs, like everybody there tell like
(41:59):
a cook out and I can't even eat and I'm
a nervous wreck. And I remember my little sister five,
and she like grab me by face, she said, why
do you cry so much? Why are you crying so much?
And I was like I look back and I like,
my gosh, that was the last time I've had all
them together. And I was like, that was, you know,
a year ago. And I was like I sat there
(42:20):
so concerned it might be people that don't matter. And
I was like, I'll be damned, I let myself do that,
Like I don't get that moment back. And I was like,
I letn't them have those moments because I was so
far gone. I was like, I'm not I'm not doing
that anymore. And I learned a lot and I'm but
I'm definitely in a better place. And I feel like
(42:43):
you are too.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's like it it takes practice, like in the way
that I imagine you have to maintain sobriety, Like I have
to maintain reminders with myself to not need to change
people's minds, to not need everybody to like me to
not you know, like my friends were like, but you know,
(43:08):
you know, so what does it matter if a group
of awful people that.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
You do not know want to call you names.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Essentially, what they're doing is looking at you and saying
your hair's blue, and you're like, but it's not, and
they're saying, yes, it is. I see it. It's blue,
and you're going it. But it's not like the hair
on my head, you know, currently, at least for me
getting ready to do this next movie, the hair on
my head is red, okay, Like I have red hair
and people.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Are like, no, it's blue, Like what the who? What
does that opinion matter?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
And there's something about like putting it in a perspective
like that that was helpful for me and understanding like
I am one human and to have millions of people
and outlets and things be like abusive and cruel. Of
course it's hard, of course it's hard. But I don't need,
(43:58):
to your point, to like let them into the cookout
with my family. I don't need to lose what is
real in my life.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Over what false opinions other people have.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
And I think that is really I don't know, I
think that's like a good way to start trying to
deal with it. And you know, it's been fun for
me to go back to work and like channel some
of that energy into it. I imagine it's so fun
for you to go, you know, up on stage at
(44:29):
night and be in the space that you love, doing
what you love and be reminded of who you are.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, Oh for sure. I mean I'm like looking, I'm like,
you know, I look over and I literally have jone
yet watching my feet. And then you know, I get
off stage and Atlantis is texting me and she was like,
I can hear you from my green room and you
just sound so much, you know, and I'm like, a
(44:57):
year ago I thought, you know, of course I always
to send words. I'm like, your career is over, which
I still know my thought that, but you know, it's
just like you think it. Yeah, And then I'm like
I sit here and I'm like, this has been the
most amazing tour. Everyone's so kind, They're just great people
(45:17):
to be around, and it's a very healthy environment and
I love that. Thanks get better. But it's yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We'll be back in just a minute. But here's a
word from our sponsors. It's so cool as a fan
to watch you having this moment. Like I grew up
on those women on Atlantis, on Jones Jet, I grew
up on Melissa s Ridge, who you remind me so
much of, Like either, there are things about you two
(45:49):
that I'm just like your presence and energy, and she's
one of my favorite humans. So I got to have
on the podcast this year and I just like lost
my mind. I was like, Hey, Melissa, I know I'm
supposed to be cool, but eight year old me is
going to come in the room and talk to you
for five minutes and then she'll leave and all pretend
I didn't like gush in this way and we were
just tackling. She's so lovely and like, I don't know.
(46:13):
I when I read that the tour got announced, I
was like, how.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Is Morgan feeling?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Is it such a trip? To your point?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Look to your left see jone Jet, look to your
right see Atlantis, Like are you losing your mind?
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It's just so funny to walk in every day and
jone Jets dressing runs rotten sat of yours and it's
just on a trip. I mean, just these two women too,
who both just really went out there did their own
thing and like changed the course for females who you know,
(46:54):
don't you know. I go through this a lot where
I'm like, I don't really know where I'm fit, and
I'm like, yeah, I'm not. You know, this Barbie Doll
with this crystal clear voice, you know, it's like it's
such a so I think sometimes I'm like, man, and
maybe I should be more like that, and I'm like, no,
you know, And so then I see these two women
(47:15):
that have just totally like done their own things and
beautiful talented women and they're doing so great, and it's
just I mean, you just learned so much from them.
It's so cool watching them and they they they can
they're just so so great blob, it's just incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well, and I imagine like there's to your point, there's
so much you learn from watching them, but like, you know,
they are also these incredibly like wise women who I'd
imagine could be such great mentors. Like have you asked
them for any advice, you know, experiences from their own
careers or in the industry or are you waiting until
(47:56):
the end of the tour for that?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I haven't really like said too much around that,
and she's been like, well, we're just conversation, you know.
Atlantis will will drop by my dressing room and check in,
and she'll she'll text me every couple of days make
sure I'm good, and uh, it's just so funny. It
(48:19):
was with the first day I met Joan and she
was like watching and I got off the stage and
she was like, hey, sorry, sorry, I should be over
here bothering you. And I was like, you're jone Jet.
You can bother me all.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
You want to.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And her assistant or Torment if someone will stand right
there and they're like, think about jone Jet is jone
Jet doesn't know she's young yet, and she's just like
the most down to earth person. I'm like, this is
so crazy because it's she's just She came out on
the balcony the other day beside my green room and
she was like, oh, I shouldn't bother you right now,
(48:52):
get ready to go on stage, and then just kind
of turns around. I was like, you you can again.
You can bother me all you want, but you want, ma'am,
any time you want your go to bothering. But it's
been Yeah, it's been really great and Atlantis. You know,
she'll she sent me a gift because she always got
(49:13):
her tea. She's got this special tea that she always
has literacy. She sent me a whole gift of all
this tea and everything, like a little sweet And it's
been it's been really nice to be and I'm honestly
gonna be really really sad when this tour is over.
I was like, already, I think we only have like
a haven more shows or something like that. And I
(49:35):
like looking at that, and I'm like, I've become friends
with the crew, you know, from Jones Jones team and
Atlantis's team, and this has been this has been the
best tour I've ever been on. I also did a
tour with Chris Stapleton and they were also super nice
and so but this has been the longest run I've
ever done. And I know, looking at it, from the
(49:57):
beginning of seeing all those dates, it gets a little
like you're gonna be gone this tour sort of You're like, Okay,
it's just long, and you don't and then you get
here and every man. I just got a new dog
while I was out here, little Fritz bulldog, and so
(50:17):
that's been you know, an adventure trying to train him
on the bus. And I bet it's been a it's
been a big it's been an eventful couple I'd say
a couple of weeks. It feels like a couple of weeks,
but it's it's been like a one.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
So yeah, you're really in it. And it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
You know, you're on this tour with these powerhouse women.
You you released a song on the new album, walked
on Water, with Kesha, who is in her season of
you know, reclaiming her art and reclaiming her power as
a woman. Like it strikes me as so interesting that
you're getting this long experience with Joan and Atlantis and
(50:59):
then you and Kesha did this song together and you
had to record it was the day you met in person, right.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, the opposite experience.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
You just went right into the deep end. What was
that like?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
So I was like, when Kesha, you know, first put
that first record out, was immediately obsessed with her. I
was like, but I just have the best some of
the best memories that I have riding around and my
cousin's Mustang and blaring you know, that record. But I
(51:35):
was so obsessed with But I was like the kid
on YouTube finding the like leak song, and I remember
trying to add her mom on Facebook because I was
like and of course I had to tell her all
of this. I was like grown up Elvis and you
(51:56):
oh my wall. I was like, this is the level.
I was like totally in love with her. And so
when you know, we got to meet and we went
that day and we sat on the beach in Malibu
and just sat there and chatted. And she's kind of
crazy because she just the water was freaking cold and
(52:17):
I don't even know what month this was, it was
still cold out and she just ran and got in
the water. I was like, no, I'm not I'm not
not going to be doing that. But then we went
to the studio and she was like, Okay, we'll be
there eight and I'm like PM, right, okay, PM, you know,
because I'm like for me, that was like ten pm. Yeah,
(52:39):
And I was like, okay, you know what USA that
West Coast time there. But she to start singing and
I'm like, yeah, that was such a full circle while
for me to have this person that you admired for
so long and just sake everything she's been through. And
I got to hear you know she's put out that
song joy Ride. Yeah, I actually got can hear that
(53:02):
before it was out? So she played that, and then
she played a couple other songs, and it's just you know,
people they've always seen like the TikTok version of her,
but like she I heard some of these newer songs too,
that it's just like her voice. It's just you know,
TikTok's great song obviously, but it's so cool to hear
her ye vocally, so talented, and she's one of those
(53:26):
people that she doesn't have a mean mind in her body.
It's like you leave her feeling better than we got there.
She's just spiritual person. And I was like, man, I
can't wait for the world to see this, this woman
who owns all of her stuff and who's free. Now
(53:46):
it's so cool.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
I love it. I love to see it.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Well, it's interesting, like this everything that's I sort of
think about for all of you, really, for you, for her,
you know, the women you're on tour with, Like everyone
has these sort of phoenix journeys, right like you find
your power, you find your purpose. I even think about,
you know, the tour coming right after you released an
(54:13):
album that you wrote solo for the first time, Like
it's everything just reads like growth.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
So when you think about where you're going next.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Or maybe the year ahead of you, like what what
on the horizon, feels like you're work in progress now.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, well, I mean I've already written the next record.
I've already like got the next one in the I
mean it's already so I have written so much stuff,
and I'm like, so for me, you'll obviously last year,
you know, I took off for my surgery yep. And
(54:57):
while it was not a break per se, it was
it was a bit of a break and it was
nice to have that downtime. So I've decided, like I'm
definitely gonna take December and January off for the part.
There's like a couple of things kind of sprinkled in there.
But you know, eventually, I'm gonna have to have a
(55:19):
hysterectomy because I also have the ovarian cancer beam so
I have to start the egg retrieving process because I
do want to. I've got to start doing that.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
If you need anything, I've done.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
It, okay, yeah, got you Okay, well yes, then I
might need to be hitting you up to ask you.
Speaker 4 (55:41):
Yeah, I'll give you all. I'll give you all the info.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Talking to the doctors has been it kind of goes
over your head. But so you know, I've got I've
got that going on and then putting out a new record.
But I've just got like kind of gotten into the
acting world. So I've done I've done one movie so far,
and I've got a bunch of other stuff on the docket.
So like that's been exciting for me. It's like a
new challenge. It's something different, and I'm just I'm happy
(56:08):
if I'm the happiest that I've been in a really
long time. And yeah, I'm just hopefully things just keep
growing and doing well. But I feel like I'm looking
forward to taking a little bit of time myself and
going on a bit of a vacation. I'm like, I
need to go somewhere tropical and just sit, turn my
(56:30):
boat off and sit and not do anything else. I've got.
I was like, you're working really hard. I need to
enjoy and I so my family is like, I'm gonna
go in a big family vacation next summer. I'm taking
time in June. I was like, let's go somewhere. Let's
get a beach house and let's just sit. My siblings
are growing up, and I'm like, I just I just
(56:51):
want to exist with them for a bit.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, that's so good. It's like a friend of mine
explained to me years ago. She said, look, you have
to stop looking at rest as unproductive time and start
looking at rest as an active resistance that is necessary
to survive in a world that is this turned up.
And I don't know what it was about reframing it
(57:15):
like that, but it made me feel like I was
allowed to give myself permission for some quiet time. And
I'm I'm happy you're getting that for yourself too.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
It's a tough thing to do sometimes where you do
work and so much, but I mean.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
That's my work in progress for sure, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yeah, Oh well, thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you for the way that you, like, I know
it's not easy, but like I really do mean this.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Thank you for the way that you choose to.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Lead and stand you know, in yourself in this insane
world that you know none of us could have ever
been prepared for.
Speaker 4 (57:59):
It's it's so.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Special to watch and like, yeah, when when some shit
was really wild in my life for a while, like
you helped, and we didn't even know each other yet,
so I just want to say thank you again.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
I was watching everything going on with you, and I
was I was keeping an eye on that, not for
looking for anything salacious, but just because I was, like,
you know, I felt a connection there. As far as
all that does.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
All right, my dear, all right, i'd like to know
thank you. You're wonderful. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (58:35):
I can't bane
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Hello
whip smarties. Today I am joined by a woman that
I have been an admirer of for a long time
(00:20):
as a fan of her music and as a person
who really respects the way she has risen above a
lot in her life, and after today's conversation, I consider
her a new friend. Today we're joined by Morgan Wade.
She is an incredible musician who has really found herself
in the center of so many exciting things, touring with
(00:43):
Joan Jet and Alanis Morrissett. Her new album Obsessed is
out and it's beautiful and powerful, and it's a record
that she wrote all on her own, her third full
length album. In fact, it's the follow up to her
previous album, Psychopath. It's project that Morgan says really gets
to the essence of who she is as a musician,
(01:03):
a storyteller, and a human. As a listener, I think
it's perhaps the most raw and vulnerable I've ever heard her,
and I just absolutely think she is cementing her status
as one of country music's most distinctive talents, and she
happens to also be a really great human. She has
talked so openly with her fans about her journey into sobriety.
(01:25):
She just celebrated seven years sober, about her choice to
have a preventive double mistectomy to keep herself safe from
a cancer risk, and really about what it's like to
suddenly be thrust into the world of fame and how
hard it can be to be one person against the internet.
I am so grateful for her candor, for her willingness
(01:47):
to bring her whole self to conversation, and for the
example she says. I'm pretty excited today that I get
to tell her that she said an example even for me.
So with further ado, let's get to it with the
wonderful Morgan Wade. Well, Hi, it's so nice to finally
(02:16):
meet you. How are you doing.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I'm doing good. How about you?
Speaker 3 (02:21):
I'm all right.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I've been traveling a lot for work, and I just like, oh,
the feeling I get when I think about you having
to tour and you manage your whole life in the
midst of it, Like.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Hats off to you. I don't know if I could
do it.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
It's one of those things and it's like you get
kind of used to it, but at the same time
you don't. But it's like when I'm at home, I'm
good for like a week, and then I'm like, this
feels strange to be sleeping in the same bed.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Totally totally, It's that weird thing, right, I think about that.
I'm constantly like, God, I just wish I could be home.
I wish I could have a routine, and then I
get home and I get antsy.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah. I think that anybody that's like creative, that you know,
has to travel, whether it's filled yeah, you know, music
or any of that. I don't do too well at
home too.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I think when you're a creative, sitting still can
be tricky. I've started to even realize that if I, like,
if I have a little fidget tool or something, I
can sit for longer, But just sitting is hard.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah. No, I totally get it. If I have like
a mating or something and it's just on the phone,
I want laps. I'm on this you know, tour right now.
And so there's like these huge parking lots, and so
I will be walking circles all day in the security
guards and just stare at.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Me like like, what are you doing.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You weirdo? What are you doing. Yeah, I don't like sense.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Still yeah, well I feel you there. It's interesting like
for me figuring those things out about myself as an
adult makes certain things about my childhood and like my
attention span or whatever. Track a little more for me.
When you kind of sit in this amazing place, you know,
you're out on a tour, You're making music, you love,
(04:16):
people are obsessed with it.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
You know.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
There's the exciting things I think that come with that,
and also the hard things that come with notoriety growing.
Speaker 4 (04:29):
I feel for you, girl, But.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
When you sort of sit here and look at your life,
like if you look back at your childhood, do you
feel like you see a through line like were you
always really artistic? Were you always wanting, you know, to
be up and moving? Did you always know you wanted
to make music or does your life now look completely
different than you thought it would when you were a
little kid, like eight or nine years old.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
You know, I think I obviously knew that I wanted
to to be involved in music. I don't think I
knew what capacity that was gonna be. You know, I
always like when writing songs and pull them stories like
that when I was like little, but I didn't think
(05:17):
I could sing. I thought my voice was weird, so
I didn't sing for anybody. I was like very secretive
about it. But I enjoyed writing songs and you know,
playing my guitar in my room by myself, and I
just did it because I loved that. It wasn't like
I was trying to do that for anybody else. And
(05:37):
then eventually, once I got into college, I started drinking,
and then that liquid courage gave me that ability to
be like playing for my you know, my friends and
stuff at the dorm. And you know, it evolved. But
I don't think that I thought it would be this,
(05:58):
you know, But I just know I had a lot
of trouble sleeping as a kid, and my mom took
me to the doctor. It was like one of those
things and it was a severe OCD and like it
was a whole routine to go to bed, and of
course my parents were never getting any sleep because I
was like, oh, and so the doctor was telling me
(06:20):
ways to calm down, and he was like, you need
to think about something that you really want to do,
something you love that makes you happy. So I would
I would fall asleep every night picturing myself on a
stage and playing, and that's what I thought about every night.
And now I look at it, I'm like, okay, that
was kind of manifesting. Uh there a little bit, but
(06:42):
that's what I would fall asleep thinking about every night.
But I didn't grow up really in an area or
around anybody that did anything like that, so I didn't
think that that was, you know, possibility. And of course,
you know, it wasn't like I could get on the
Internet and you know videos on you know, how to
(07:05):
how to do that. It wasn't like things are now,
you know, But it was something I knew in my
head I wanted to do, but I didn't have that call.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, so when do you think that changed? Like if
you knew you wanted to be a musician and you
finally got comfortable starting to share music with people in college,
was was that when you felt like you were able
to say, oh, I really want to do this as
my career.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, for sure. Of course. You know. It was freshman
year of college and my mom I remember her being
when I came home and was like, Hey, I'm going
to go play this little show. She was like excuse me,
Like what are you? What are you talking about because
she was so like me Van, and I was like, yeah,
I'm going to go She was, what are you No,
(07:58):
I'm going to go sing? And she was very confused
by that, and so which I don't blame then, because
this came out of nowhere. And so I was like, yeah,
I don't really want to stay in school anymore, don't
want to finish college. And of course that was like, yeah,
I know you need to What are you talking about?
Just came out of nowhere, And of course I looked
back and I totally get it. At the time, I thought,
(08:20):
you know, my parents were crazy and everybody was being unfair.
And I ended up getting a bachelor's degree and I
did continue for four years, but every weekend I was out,
like playing shows. I pretended to be my own booking agent.
I have a fake email. I was like, I formed
a band on Craigslist. He's not really safe. Me and
(08:45):
two of my friends from class. There was an ad
that were looking for a singer, and I rode over
to a sketchy part of town and I went in
this guy's basement. And fortunately, this isn't like a you know,
crime podcast, and you're not like talking to my mom
and you know, I'm still here, but yeah, and it
(09:08):
just all kind of went from there. I like looked
back and it was like step by step for me,
but you know you eventually it just started to happen
and everything kind of fell into place.
Speaker 4 (09:21):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
And so what was sort of the journey like once
you started a band and really started to perform, Like
how did it happen?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
You know, like I said, you know, the sort of
craiglist thing, and then it just kind of became taking
any kind of opportunity that I could get. So you know,
sometimes I look back and you know, you have like
moments where you're like, you know, you feel like kind
of drained and like what is the point. You know,
(09:55):
I had a tough year last year. Everything it was
like the whole way down kind of being known. And
then I was like and do I don't want to
do this anymore? Because I like look back at the beginning,
I was like I was so hungry for it. I
was like excited, Like if three people showed up and
were listening to me, I was like, I'm going to
make those three people like me. And I had to
(10:17):
kind of remember how that was but I I did.
I just took every opportunity I could get. And I
worked a job at a gym and I had to
be up at three point thirty every morning, yeah, five
days a week, and then had like once a month
on a Saturday, and I would do that and I
(10:37):
would sit in there and I would just send out
email after email after email, trying to get any gig
I can get. And so I just I did my
own merch. I did like everything I booked it. I
tried to build the website, like, I just put everything
I had into it, and things just started started to
(11:00):
kind of fall into place. And I mean there were
times that just absolutely sucked. Yeah, and then it was like,
you know, to me, it was just not giving up.
It was just like pushing and doing whatever I could
and honestly letting my songs kind of just speak to themselves.
They just kept writing. At the end of the day.
It was like, no matter what, I was writing music
(11:21):
and I was having fun at that point. But it
ended up I met a guy in Sava Vaden at
a music festival and he was just getting into producing
and he plays for Jason Isbel and that was a
huge fan and it ended up I had been playing
this song out like a wilder days, and people were
(11:44):
really like catching on to that song, they really liked it,
and that was the first song I ended up catching
him when he sat down to do a rite, and
then of course that ended up, you know, three years later,
two years later being a radio single, and it kind
of trades fired and then just everything went. It feels
like it went quickly, and then at the side, stuff
(12:05):
like it kind of voice. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
Well, it's like they always say, it takes a decade
to become an overnight success, right, right, And it's so
much invisible work, like just so many things that people
don't see. And you know, the length of the road
you had to walk to get to this place where
you're sitting on a tour of bus, you know, out
(12:29):
going around the country.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
It's wild.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
How has the adjustment of it been for you? And
I'm I'm curious because you know, one of the things
that I appreciate in people, and I think one of
the reasons I admire you is because you've stood very
vulnerably and honestly about your human experience. Like you've talked
about sobriety, you've talked about you know learning how to
(12:53):
cope with this sort of attention, all all of these big,
you know, journeys in state that you take. And I
feel for you because I also know like when you
go from the like in your line of work, when
you go from being reported on by CMT to being
reported on by TMZ, even if it's all bullsh it's
(13:15):
hard and it's stressful, and like, it's hard to accept
that people would rather embellish your life to the point
of turning you into someone you're not in the press
for clicks and cash, then care about what's true for
you and your life and respect your human identity as
(13:39):
a fragile, feeling person in the world. And like, I
don't know, I've been through this more than once in
the twenty years I've been on TV, and I've certainly
seen you go through it, and I'm just like, you know,
you still have to get out and get on stage
on tour every night and make people happy, Like how
(13:59):
how do you feel you're out How to make space
for your work and your life.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
When sometimes they get complicated like that.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Uh yeah, well I would sell Like last year when everything,
you know, kind of the media was popping off. I
definitely didn't want to go play. I had a show
like a few days later, and I was like, I
don't I really don't want to go. I don't want
to leave my house. I don't want to do anything
right now because it's just so bizarre. The only time
(14:30):
I had been in you know, stuff like that again
was pertaining to my music. It wasn't pertaining to you know,
gossip calling as any of that stuff. So I just
it was it was such a weird, a weird thing,
but I went, and you know, of course it was.
It was different because the people that were there listening
(14:52):
to me, we were fans, and they just honestly did
not care. They were more so, hey are you good? Yeah? Up?
You do the meet and greets, and they're not in
there asking me questions. They're in there like how are
you doing, how your sobariety like kind of checking in.
So it was like good for me, but I was
also I can't let other people win. Yeah, it was
(15:16):
a it's been a really like difficult experience, but now
I'm just like numb to it. And I had to
kind of sit back and laugh and like, you guys
are kind of grasping at straws at this point. But
it was definitely, uh a weird, really weird time because
it's like you go to bed and then you wake
(15:37):
up and it's all the stuff like everywhere. And but
it's been good for me too, just in the sense of, uh,
I think it's been. It's been. I have a tracker
on it because I was, like, you know, super addicted
to just getting on the internet, just scrolling, whether it
was looking and trying to read and just feeling bad
(15:58):
about myself and then being like, well, this isn't even
prove but I'm sitting here feeling bad about it. So
I've been on that seventy one days. I took everything
on my phone. I'll let my team run it, and
I've gotten an ore done and they blast seventy one
days and you know anything, and I don't miss it.
I don't know. I might log back into Instagram one day,
(16:18):
but as of now, like, I'm really content about it.
You were wasted a lot of time, just even if
it was just videos and dogs that I would watch, Yeah,
so much. Nine.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Yeah. Well, it's it's so easy to escape into those spaces.
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Maybe it's because to be an artist, you have to
be sensitive, you know. I don't know why so many
of us are so much more sensitive to the negativity
than whatever the positivity is, but I know, at least
for me, like realizing that my.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Justice complex, as.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
My therapist likes to call it, like I am obs
obsessed with justice and truth and believe, you know, we
should be good to people and so like that thing
gets really fired up in me when I know that
things are being said about my life that are just
not true, and like to your point, when they're grasping
(17:16):
at straws. Like when I started to look at some
of it for me last year, I was like, what
are we talking about? Like how I can't sneak into
an event that's being photographed with anybody, let alone when
I show up with a group of nine friends.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Who's sneaking around?
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Or like, you know, it's just everything was so surreal,
including like you know, I had storylines about like oh,
you know, the chemistry. Upon meeting I was like, did
I just meet my friend of five years at this event?
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Like what are we talking about?
Speaker 1 (17:51):
It was all just so surreal for me, and I
guess what I'm What I find so interesting is like
we all go, well, why are we doing this?
Speaker 4 (18:02):
Like why am I even paying it any mind?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Yet we all feel so wounded by by it, and
it's like, I don't know, it's like the golden handcuffs, right,
Like you're online so you can do the work you love,
but the online life hurts your ability to like even
exist as a person, let alone to do your job, right.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I mean, I uh, I just one day like turn
everything off and I was just sitting there and I
was like, see, it doesn't really exist. It does not
really exist. It's just this like place. It's just like
logging on to this you know, video game or so
those you can cut it off. It really will not
(18:49):
affect you unless you unless you let it, which is
so easy to say. And I have these moments where
I'm like yes, and then you know, and I look back.
A lot of it, I think is is like deep
rooted childhood stuff where I wanted to be you know
that you want to be loved so bad and you
I would have done anything just to I didn't want
anybody to be mad at me. I was like always
(19:10):
thinking someone was mad at me, and so it was
a lot of that. So then to to all of
a sudden be thrust into that and to think, well,
all these people hate me for you know, I don't
understand why. I was like, I don't know me. Like
if you met me and half of them, like you
met me on the street, you wouldn't say that to me.
(19:32):
You would, you would understand that I'm actually, you know,
a nice person despite the resting bitch face, Like but
it's yeah, it's uh. I will say. Last year, seeing
like everything to that you were going through, uh, was
(19:52):
a little helpful to me to not not that I'm
glad you went through that, but it was like, Okay,
there's other people going through yeah, similar stub and they're
still alive and they're doing good.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors that I
really enjoy and I think you will too.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And I think what was so interesting for me to
start to realize was, you know, like I came of
age essentially in public on an early aughts teen drama.
Like people die for the any version of anybody's life
that they can make feel like it's the teen drama
(20:38):
offline or off screen they.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
Love because it's profitable.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
And I thought I understood that dynamic and like you know,
for like even for your friendship with Kyle or relationship
or whatever however you want to define it. I realized,
I don't want to put words in your mouth, but like,
I feel like her world tends to operate in that
space too, like they want the fodder and they forget
(21:04):
that it's about people. And I don't know, like I
thought I understood how toxic all that was until I
saw those worlds mobilize against all women and I was like, oh,
I thought the misogyny was breathtaking before. In the world
of tabloids, it's it's like compounded to the nth degree
(21:29):
when you just have women to talk about, like you
guys are garbage people.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Oh it was. I mean, yeah, the things the headlines
that I was like reading and I was like, why
is it okay for you to say that it was?
I don't know, it was. It was really And then
you know there will be people on the internet being like,
well they're paying or they're calling, Oh yeah, they're asking people.
(21:56):
WAS like, shut up, Like you have absolutely have no
idea what you're talking about right now. I'm like, I know,
I have never called the paparazzi. I don'ly I would
not know how to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
I think people also don't understand it's it's immensely painful
to be treated like a commodity rather than a person.
And it's also really scary to get stalked, like and
that's what that is. Like for some reason, we have
this word, you know, we call them paparazzi. But like
when you get stoked, when you when you wind up
(22:28):
in like car chases trying to get away from people,
when you when people follow you into like private spaces,
it's actually quite scary. And a lot of people are like, oh,
you know, well, well privilege this famous that, and you're like, okay,
you come do it for a day and see how
you like it.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I mean, I was followed from West Hollywood to Pasadena
one day. The dude followed me all the way there
to go to the studio. Yeah, I'm like, dude, you
follow me from home?
Speaker 4 (23:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (23:00):
Wait, do you record in Pasadena?
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I did. I did a couple of things for the
new record out there, So.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Okay, I did. I did junior high in high school
in Pasadena. So this is full sidetrack.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
There's my ADHD brand and like squirrel.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
Yeah, and I you know, I go back and forth
between like Nashville and then I can get some stuff
done in LA. So we were on the road and
we happened to AB to get some stuff out there.
But I don't remember the first time because there's there's
a guy that hangs out at Lax Airport.
Speaker 3 (23:35):
Oh yeah, and the term I don't.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Know if you've seen that dude, but he just hangs
out there.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
And video camera guy.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
Yeah, video camera yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I forget his name.
We ended up when day I was like, do you
live here? Man? I was like what what's what's your name?
Was like good God, because the first time I was
there and I landed and I was coming through there
and people like they and I was like at all
in my Sweatland's the day I was like, I did
(24:04):
not call anybody. I've been on a plane for like
six hours.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
What I think people in the.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Out in the you know world don't understand is we're
not the ones calling. It's video camera guy pays somebody
who's making minimum wage at the airline to call and say,
these are the people on our flight today, because look
like we can stay in hotels under aliases and all
you cannot fly under an alias that is a federal offense,
(24:33):
so like they know when you're on a plane, and
you know, people are making money however they're making it.
But I do think I just really appreciate that you've
been open about how hard it is to be picked
apart like that and to be to be turned into
like a caricature of yourself, like what was really hard
(24:55):
for me last year? And you know, I don't know
obviously the details of your circumstance, but I do know that,
like it's a really long road to end something or
leave something with someone that you have loved and tried
to make things work with. And like, man, for me,
just having like the saddest, hardest time be turned into
(25:20):
something like salacious, you know, to feel like what a
precious gift that like a group of women saved my
life at my lowest when I was like, if I
do this for one more day, I'm just going to die.
And I realized how many other people were feeling that way.
We're feeling so tortured and sad in their homes and
(25:40):
like the like lifeblood of having support and the gift
of watching other people be courageous, because courage can be contagious,
like those things I want to talk about is so sacred,
and then they get turned into like icky, sticky gross
out in the world.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
And I'm like, that's just so sad, and like why
are we like this?
Speaker 3 (26:02):
And why are we like this to women? Why are
we like this?
Speaker 4 (26:07):
Man?
Speaker 2 (26:07):
I remember when for this k oh, yeah, all the cave, Middleton,
all that was. Everybody was like where's she? And I'm like,
stop it? And then she feels I had cancer. I'm like,
you see how sick that was has cancer? And we're
so where is she at? What is she doing?
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:28):
And I'm like stop you were just because you're just
not a title to know anything. And that's why I'm like,
I don't say I'm like you guys, don't I'm not
saying anything anything unless.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
You don't. It's not it's not you.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
And that was what was really interesting, is like for me,
I know, once the train leaves the station, there's kind
of like no good way to deal with it. But
like I really had to sit, and I sat for
a long time because I was like, there's a few
things at play here. I don't even know what's happening
in my world yet, so I don't know how to
talk to you about it as I figure it out.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
I should have the space to do that.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
And then there was this other thing where I was like, well,
the misogyny is breathtaking because it's all women. And also
there's this thing of like it's twenty twenty four, you know,
I guess twenty twenty three. And I'm like, and you
want to like out someone for sport.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I'm a grown up.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
I'm really secure in myself. But like, what about kids
who kill themselves over these things? Like this is not
a light thing that they are seeing happen to someone
who is in the public eye, who they probably perceive
as having like privilege or power, And it's happening to me,
So what's going to happen to them?
Speaker 4 (27:44):
And then I was like, are you trying to make
me ashamed?
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I was like, oh, if you thought like outing me
at the top of a journey was gonna make me
feel ashamed, like I'll sit and be quiet and figure
out my life. But once I haven't figured out, like,
watch me be proud, bitches. I hope you choke on
my pride. I hope you enjoy it. Like I'm just
(28:06):
gonna flip the.
Speaker 4 (28:07):
Script on you.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
I'm not going to play this game, and like, I
don't know this thing that we expect to know the
details of people's lives, but also that we don't give
people a minute to figure them out. Like if you're
an anonymous person, you get to like figure out your
life and then talk about it when you're ready, And
that shifts for us, And like for some reason, people
(28:30):
want to focus on the things that are the least
important instead of the most And I think for you,
especially bringing up like the Cape Middleton of it all,
like I know how personal that is for you, because
people want to focus on like where is she, what's this?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
What's that she's dealing with? An illness?
Speaker 1 (28:45):
People want to chatter chatter chatter about your life, and like,
you know how hard that is. You've talked so openly
about how last year you underwent a preventative double mastectomy
because of a gene mutation that would make it it's
so likely to for you to suffer from cancer.
Speaker 4 (29:05):
And like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I wondered if watching her go through all that, given
what you were going through, both like in the press
and also in your personal literal health life, felt wild
for you. So it's interesting to hear you bring that up.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Yeah, I just and I think I learned a lesson
to because until it's built with the gossips and all
of that, sure I would have sat back and gone,
oh yeah, let me see. I'm so curious about like
this person getting a divorced. Is this person what are
(29:43):
they doing? Is this for? You know? And just like
reading these tabloids and then now I'm like, no, no,
I don't believe anything I read. Leave them alone. I
just don't believe anything. And I don't I don't engage
in it because I remember, you know, the thing is
is it's like that's somebody's daughter, that's somebody's mom, that's
(30:08):
someone's sister, that's somebody's everything. That's a real human being.
And I was like, and we're picking on the part
and we're just it's yeah, I can't. I can't, and
it you know, I don't. The internet can be like
such a and it's such a like you said earlier,
it's it's so weird because it's like the internet helps
(30:30):
so much with your career. I mean you basically, if
you're not on TikTok or doing something, the label is
like on your ask about it. But it's also it's
like this fine line and I just think with me personally,
for my addictive personality, it's just not yeah, it's not
a good move for me.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Yeah, it's it can be heavy.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
And now a word from our sponsors who make this
show possible. One of my friends and I talked about
the internet is like when you really get in that
loop and you realize you're on it too much, Like
(31:15):
it's basically just like emotional cutting, like it's a self
harm kind of thing, and like that, I think when
you start to think about it in that way, and
I imagine especially for you, you know, being seven years sober,
by the way, congratulations, seven is a big number. When
you can identify like, oh, this is making me feel
like that bad thing, it probably feels important to shift
(31:38):
your habits. What made you decide to quit drinking? Like
was it a feeling you had? Was it like a moment?
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Was it like a journey to go, Oh, I think
maybe this is just.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Not for me, So I didn't. I started drinking like
my brushman years and then I was like, oh, I'm
pretty good at this. And then I started doing the
whole like weekends playing shows, and of course, you know
I was underage, but that does that even matter? Right?
(32:14):
But a lot of these venues stuff, I wasn't getting paid,
but it was like you can have a free bar
pab so like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm like, okay, so
I'm getting all this. I'm a college student on the
weekend is getting all this free beer? Like absolutely, you know.
I started taking advantage of that, and it just became
I was like, okay, I'm good at this and I
(32:34):
like it, and I like how I, you know, can
act and how out knowing I am when I'm drinking.
And then it just started to become this thing where
that I get home like what, you know, what have
you been doing? I started kind of going down and
pass and then I was like all right, I'm gonna
not drink. Let's not drink. And I woke up face
(32:59):
down in a parking lot with people shaking me trying
to get me to wake up. I had played a show,
and I was like, all right, I was pretty good
at hiding how much I had drank to you know,
I'm pretty good at making it a little. I get
the same drink in my head and I was like
I'm going to drive home see guys, and they woke
me up my space out in the parking lot, you know,
(33:19):
in my own vomit and I was like, already, can't stop.
And so I didn't drink for a couple of weeks,
and then it was like, okay, I'm good. I want
to you know, it's like I could not do it.
And so I went to New York for the first
time and played these really crappy shows. You know. I
(33:41):
was just excited, and you know, of course, I drank
more that night than I've ever drank. And I woke
up the next morning and I was just like you
you I felt I don't know, it was the weirdest
feeling I've ever had. I've never felt like that since,
but it was it was very much like you have
to kill yourself and that it was this crazy like
(34:04):
dark feeling and it was like you you you You've
got it, this is it, this is it, and you're
not gonna And I felt like that for days and
I was like, yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna drink anymore.
I was like, I've gotta is that. What this is
is that what this feeling is like the depression was
just so heavy from that, and I was, you know,
obviously I've always had a lot of you know, OCD anxiety,
(34:28):
and so then obviously you go drink all this, yeah,
and then the coming down from that is just it
makes it ten times worse. And that feeling lasted for
like two weeks, and I did not drink, I didn't
touch anything. I got back home and I was like, okay,
what what what do I do? So I went and
got like all the sobriety books and I was like,
(34:50):
You're gonna learn to love sparkling water. We're we're gonna
like be that asshole that just drank sparkling water and
that's it. And I I just engrossed myself in it.
And it was hard. And then of course it was
hard to when your friends are like, yeah, okay, and
then you know, they're kind of some of them were like, well, problem,
(35:11):
you just you need to chill, And I'm like, no,
I if there's something I don't want to do and
I can't stop, and that's a problem.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
And I remember texting my my mom and my grandma
and my aunt in a group message that said, hey,
I'm gonna I'm gonna stop drinking, and they were like,
thank god, we've been hoping. And I was like, I
was like, all right, when you when you see stuff
like that, you're like okay, And I literally I just
(35:39):
I was like, all right, get up early and go
to the gym every day and just really starting to
get on this this routine. And again it's been hard.
I mean last year, I seriously didn't think I was
going to remain sober. There was several that I was like, yeah,
(36:02):
maybe want to drink. I just you know, I just wanted.
I was like, what does it matter anymore? And think
thank god, you know, I got through those moments that
have people in my life that I was, you know,
able to talk to. But I think I think too.
When you first get sober, it's like, obviously not easy,
but you can remember why you're not drinking and the reasoning.
(36:24):
But the further along I get, you start to be like, well,
maybe I'm different, you have changed. Maybe I get handle
a drink or two, and then you know, I have
a relapsed dream and I wake up and I'm like
the alcohol that it never tastes good, and as soon
as I do it, I just destroyed. Every time so
I'm like, I feel like I need those dreams.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, that's actually really kind of amazing that you get
to key into your subconscious like that, because you know,
in hindsight, it's like, of course, everything feels real clear
in hindsight. Right, you can go, you can look back,
can be like, wow, maybe all these things like we're
happening for a reason before I saw it. Maybe you
know it can be the great things. But I also
(37:07):
think to your point, like, addiction is kind of like
being an abusive relationship. This thing continues to harm you,
but like years after you're out of the abusive relationship,
you might look back a little more fondly on the
happy times.
Speaker 4 (37:27):
And that's the danger. And so I absolutely get Yeah,
I get what you're saying there for sure. How is
it now, like seven years in.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Because you've been public about it, and because you know,
you've got a good crew of people around you, like
your collaborators, producers, the folks you work with, friends, family, Like,
do you feel like you're in a really good situation
with it where people instead of saying yeah, come on
not you are are like yeah, you and we're going
to support you. We're going to be here for you,
(38:00):
We're gonna make sure we can help you maintain this
or does it feel like more of an individual path.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean it's obviously an individual, but I mean it
was everybody around me very much keeps an eye on me.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
It's very like everybody knows I'm sober and we don't.
I mean, I don't even think there's any like alcohol
on the bus. I also don't want to be that person,
and I made it very clear of hey, I don't
care if you drink around me, because the thing is
that I have to be able to be strong in
that sense. I can't. I'm like, I play music for
(38:44):
a litting. It's everyone's drinking at the venus. There's bars
and that is great, and you know, I'm not going
to see what if you shouldn't drink. There's some people
that can go have a glass of wine or do whatever,
and they're they're fine. I'm not. So it is our
verse on journey. But everyone around me has been super great.
I mean, for you know, my sober anniversary, I mean
(39:09):
people in VAP I had so many people bringing me
like gifts and arts, and then they got me My
team got me a cake red velvet cake for my
seven years. So I feel very very supportive. And every
year I know I have this I like to go
buy me something nice. Is as a little a little gift.
(39:33):
I'm like, all right, you got to go buy yourself
something nice, flurage on something as a little as a
little gift.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah, it's like an anniversary present.
Speaker 3 (39:42):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Yeah, yeah, for myself and that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
So being you know, on the other side of last year,
you know, with your health stuff, being back on tour, Like,
how has this next phase felt? Because I read the
you wrote every song on the new album I'm obsessed solo,
So like, do you do you feel like you're just
(40:08):
in this whole new phase, like you walked through the
fire and you came out so much stronger.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Yeah. Yeah, I'm a hundred times better than I was,
you know, I there's not even there's no comparison. So,
you know, as much as it's uh, it sucked, you know,
I've got to thank a lot of those people because
(40:34):
I'm like, now I I can handle anything. I'm like
what Also, I'm like, what what else? There's nothing worse
that could happen at this point as far as like
the media stuff, and you know, I had to really
sit back and look at it. I was like, there
are people starving, there are people being murdered, you know,
(40:56):
they're they're overseas. It's just like there's so watched stuff.
There's there's children in war zones and all these people
being hurt. And I was like, I wake up and
I have my coffee and I do all this and
I'm like, so what trolls on the internet are talking
smack about me? I was like, I have a stove blasted.
And when you look at things from that perspective, and
(41:17):
I'm like, who cares? Just it? Also, you know, it
just makes you be like, hey, there's so much more
to life. There's so much more that you need to do,
and who just it's I had to get out of
the woe as me mentality, and I would say, you know,
I think it was good for me to process that
and be able to sit. But you know, when everything
(41:38):
started happening, I just remember that was the day all
this crap started like blowing up. I was with my
family and I don't get much time like that with
my mom, my stepdad and my siblings, and like my
actual you know, my my dad and Stepmam were there
so like all my hairs, like everybody there tell like
(41:59):
a cook out and I can't even eat and I'm
a nervous wreck. And I remember my little sister five,
and she like grab me by face, she said, why
do you cry so much? Why are you crying so much?
And I was like I look back and I like,
my gosh, that was the last time I've had all
them together. And I was like, that was, you know,
a year ago. And I was like I sat there
(42:20):
so concerned it might be people that don't matter. And
I was like, I'll be damned, I let myself do that,
Like I don't get that moment back. And I was like,
I letn't them have those moments because I was so
far gone. I was like, I'm not I'm not doing
that anymore. And I learned a lot and I'm but
I'm definitely in a better place. And I feel like
(42:43):
you are too.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
It's like it it takes practice, like in the way
that I imagine you have to maintain sobriety, Like I have
to maintain reminders with myself to not need to change
people's minds, to not need everybody to like me to
not you know, like my friends were like, but you know,
(43:08):
you know, so what does it matter if a group
of awful people that.
Speaker 4 (43:13):
You do not know want to call you names.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Essentially, what they're doing is looking at you and saying
your hair's blue, and you're like, but it's not, and
they're saying, yes, it is. I see it. It's blue,
and you're going it. But it's not like the hair
on my head, you know, currently, at least for me
getting ready to do this next movie, the hair on
my head is red, okay, Like I have red hair
and people.
Speaker 3 (43:33):
Are like, no, it's blue, Like what the who? What
does that opinion matter?
Speaker 1 (43:38):
And there's something about like putting it in a perspective
like that that was helpful for me and understanding like
I am one human and to have millions of people
and outlets and things be like abusive and cruel. Of
course it's hard, of course it's hard. But I don't need,
(43:58):
to your point, to like let them into the cookout
with my family. I don't need to lose what is
real in my life.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Over what false opinions other people have.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
And I think that is really I don't know, I
think that's like a good way to start trying to
deal with it. And you know, it's been fun for
me to go back to work and like channel some
of that energy into it. I imagine it's so fun
for you to go, you know, up on stage at
(44:29):
night and be in the space that you love, doing
what you love and be reminded of who you are.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, Oh for sure. I mean I'm like looking, I'm like,
you know, I look over and I literally have jone
yet watching my feet. And then you know, I get
off stage and Atlantis is texting me and she was like,
I can hear you from my green room and you
just sound so much, you know, and I'm like, a
(44:57):
year ago I thought, you know, of course I always
to send words. I'm like, your career is over, which
I still know my thought that, but you know, it's
just like you think it. Yeah, And then I'm like
I sit here and I'm like, this has been the
most amazing tour. Everyone's so kind, They're just great people
(45:17):
to be around, and it's a very healthy environment and
I love that. Thanks get better. But it's yeah.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
We'll be back in just a minute. But here's a
word from our sponsors. It's so cool as a fan
to watch you having this moment. Like I grew up
on those women on Atlantis, on Jones Jet, I grew
up on Melissa s Ridge, who you remind me so
much of, Like either, there are things about you two
(45:49):
that I'm just like your presence and energy, and she's
one of my favorite humans. So I got to have
on the podcast this year and I just like lost
my mind. I was like, Hey, Melissa, I know I'm
supposed to be cool, but eight year old me is
going to come in the room and talk to you
for five minutes and then she'll leave and all pretend
I didn't like gush in this way and we were
just tackling. She's so lovely and like, I don't know.
(46:13):
I when I read that the tour got announced, I
was like, how.
Speaker 3 (46:17):
Is Morgan feeling?
Speaker 2 (46:18):
Like?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Is it such a trip? To your point?
Speaker 1 (46:22):
Look to your left see jone Jet, look to your
right see Atlantis, Like are you losing your mind?
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Are you okay?
Speaker 2 (46:30):
It's just so funny to walk in every day and
jone Jets dressing runs rotten sat of yours and it's
just on a trip. I mean, just these two women too,
who both just really went out there did their own
thing and like changed the course for females who you know,
(46:54):
don't you know. I go through this a lot where
I'm like, I don't really know where I'm fit, and
I'm like, yeah, I'm not. You know, this Barbie Doll
with this crystal clear voice, you know, it's like it's
such a so I think sometimes I'm like, man, and
maybe I should be more like that, and I'm like, no,
you know, And so then I see these two women
(47:15):
that have just totally like done their own things and
beautiful talented women and they're doing so great, and it's
just I mean, you just learned so much from them.
It's so cool watching them and they they they can
they're just so so great blob, it's just incredible.
Speaker 1 (47:32):
Well, and I imagine like there's to your point, there's
so much you learn from watching them, but like, you know,
they are also these incredibly like wise women who I'd
imagine could be such great mentors. Like have you asked
them for any advice, you know, experiences from their own
careers or in the industry or are you waiting until
(47:56):
the end of the tour for that?
Speaker 2 (47:58):
Yeah, I haven't really like said too much around that,
and she's been like, well, we're just conversation, you know.
Atlantis will will drop by my dressing room and check in,
and she'll she'll text me every couple of days make
sure I'm good, and uh, it's just so funny. It
(48:19):
was with the first day I met Joan and she
was like watching and I got off the stage and
she was like, hey, sorry, sorry, I should be over
here bothering you. And I was like, you're jone Jet.
You can bother me all.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
You want to.
Speaker 2 (48:31):
And her assistant or Torment if someone will stand right
there and they're like, think about jone Jet is jone
Jet doesn't know she's young yet, and she's just like
the most down to earth person. I'm like, this is
so crazy because it's she's just She came out on
the balcony the other day beside my green room and
she was like, oh, I shouldn't bother you right now,
(48:52):
get ready to go on stage, and then just kind
of turns around. I was like, you you can again.
You can bother me all you want, but you want, ma'am,
any time you want your go to bothering. But it's
been Yeah, it's been really great and Atlantis. You know,
she'll she sent me a gift because she always got
(49:13):
her tea. She's got this special tea that she always
has literacy. She sent me a whole gift of all
this tea and everything, like a little sweet And it's
been it's been really nice to be and I'm honestly
gonna be really really sad when this tour is over.
I was like, already, I think we only have like
a haven more shows or something like that. And I
(49:35):
like looking at that, and I'm like, I've become friends
with the crew, you know, from Jones Jones team and
Atlantis's team, and this has been this has been the
best tour I've ever been on. I also did a
tour with Chris Stapleton and they were also super nice
and so but this has been the longest run I've
ever done. And I know, looking at it, from the
(49:57):
beginning of seeing all those dates, it gets a little
like you're gonna be gone this tour sort of You're like, Okay,
it's just long, and you don't and then you get
here and every man. I just got a new dog
while I was out here, little Fritz bulldog, and so
(50:17):
that's been you know, an adventure trying to train him
on the bus. And I bet it's been a it's
been a big it's been an eventful couple I'd say
a couple of weeks. It feels like a couple of weeks,
but it's it's been like a one.
Speaker 4 (50:32):
So yeah, you're really in it. And it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:36):
You know, you're on this tour with these powerhouse women.
You you released a song on the new album, walked
on Water, with Kesha, who is in her season of
you know, reclaiming her art and reclaiming her power as
a woman. Like it strikes me as so interesting that
you're getting this long experience with Joan and Atlantis and
(50:59):
then you and Kesha did this song together and you
had to record it was the day you met in person, right.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, the opposite experience.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
You just went right into the deep end. What was
that like?
Speaker 2 (51:11):
So I was like, when Kesha, you know, first put
that first record out, was immediately obsessed with her. I
was like, but I just have the best some of
the best memories that I have riding around and my
cousin's Mustang and blaring you know, that record. But I
(51:35):
was so obsessed with But I was like the kid
on YouTube finding the like leak song, and I remember
trying to add her mom on Facebook because I was
like and of course I had to tell her all
of this. I was like grown up Elvis and you
(51:56):
oh my wall. I was like, this is the level.
I was like totally in love with her. And so
when you know, we got to meet and we went
that day and we sat on the beach in Malibu
and just sat there and chatted. And she's kind of
crazy because she just the water was freaking cold and
(52:17):
I don't even know what month this was, it was
still cold out and she just ran and got in
the water. I was like, no, I'm not I'm not
not going to be doing that. But then we went
to the studio and she was like, Okay, we'll be
there eight and I'm like PM, right, okay, PM, you know,
because I'm like for me, that was like ten pm. Yeah,
(52:39):
And I was like, okay, you know what USA that
West Coast time there. But she to start singing and
I'm like, yeah, that was such a full circle while
for me to have this person that you admired for
so long and just sake everything she's been through. And
I got to hear you know she's put out that
song joy Ride. Yeah, I actually got can hear that
(53:02):
before it was out? So she played that, and then
she played a couple other songs, and it's just you know,
people they've always seen like the TikTok version of her,
but like she I heard some of these newer songs too,
that it's just like her voice. It's just you know,
TikTok's great song obviously, but it's so cool to hear
her ye vocally, so talented, and she's one of those
(53:26):
people that she doesn't have a mean mind in her body.
It's like you leave her feeling better than we got there.
She's just spiritual person. And I was like, man, I
can't wait for the world to see this, this woman
who owns all of her stuff and who's free. Now
(53:46):
it's so cool.
Speaker 4 (53:49):
I love it. I love to see it.
Speaker 1 (53:51):
Well, it's interesting, like this everything that's I sort of
think about for all of you, really, for you, for her,
you know, the women you're on tour with, Like everyone
has these sort of phoenix journeys, right like you find
your power, you find your purpose. I even think about,
you know, the tour coming right after you released an
(54:13):
album that you wrote solo for the first time, Like
it's everything just reads like growth.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
So when you think about where you're going next.
Speaker 1 (54:23):
Or maybe the year ahead of you, like what what
on the horizon, feels like you're work in progress now.
Speaker 2 (54:31):
Yeah, well, I mean I've already written the next record.
I've already like got the next one in the I
mean it's already so I have written so much stuff,
and I'm like, so for me, you'll obviously last year,
you know, I took off for my surgery yep. And
(54:57):
while it was not a break per se, it was
it was a bit of a break and it was
nice to have that downtime. So I've decided, like I'm
definitely gonna take December and January off for the part.
There's like a couple of things kind of sprinkled in there.
But you know, eventually, I'm gonna have to have a
(55:19):
hysterectomy because I also have the ovarian cancer beam so
I have to start the egg retrieving process because I
do want to. I've got to start doing that.
Speaker 4 (55:31):
If you need anything, I've done.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
It, okay, yeah, got you Okay, well yes, then I
might need to be hitting you up to ask you.
Speaker 4 (55:41):
Yeah, I'll give you all. I'll give you all the info.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
Talking to the doctors has been it kind of goes
over your head. But so you know, I've got I've
got that going on and then putting out a new record.
But I've just got like kind of gotten into the
acting world. So I've done I've done one movie so far,
and I've got a bunch of other stuff on the docket.
So like that's been exciting for me. It's like a
new challenge. It's something different, and I'm just I'm happy
(56:08):
if I'm the happiest that I've been in a really
long time. And yeah, I'm just hopefully things just keep
growing and doing well. But I feel like I'm looking
forward to taking a little bit of time myself and
going on a bit of a vacation. I'm like, I
need to go somewhere tropical and just sit, turn my
(56:30):
boat off and sit and not do anything else. I've got.
I was like, you're working really hard. I need to
enjoy and I so my family is like, I'm gonna
go in a big family vacation next summer. I'm taking
time in June. I was like, let's go somewhere. Let's
get a beach house and let's just sit. My siblings
are growing up, and I'm like, I just I just
(56:51):
want to exist with them for a bit.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, that's so good. It's like a friend of mine
explained to me years ago. She said, look, you have
to stop looking at rest as unproductive time and start
looking at rest as an active resistance that is necessary
to survive in a world that is this turned up.
And I don't know what it was about reframing it
(57:15):
like that, but it made me feel like I was
allowed to give myself permission for some quiet time. And
I'm I'm happy you're getting that for yourself too.
Speaker 4 (57:25):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
It's a tough thing to do sometimes where you do
work and so much, but I mean.
Speaker 4 (57:32):
That's my work in progress for sure, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
Yeah, Oh well, thank you so much for joining me today.
Thank you for the way that you, like, I know
it's not easy, but like I really do mean this.
Speaker 4 (57:47):
Thank you for the way that you choose to.
Speaker 1 (57:51):
Lead and stand you know, in yourself in this insane
world that you know none of us could have ever
been prepared for.
Speaker 4 (57:59):
It's it's so.
Speaker 1 (58:02):
Special to watch and like, yeah, when when some shit
was really wild in my life for a while, like
you helped, and we didn't even know each other yet,
so I just want to say thank you again.
Speaker 2 (58:14):
I was watching everything going on with you, and I
was I was keeping an eye on that, not for
looking for anything salacious, but just because I was, like,
you know, I felt a connection there. As far as
all that does.
Speaker 1 (58:29):
All right, my dear, all right, i'd like to know
thank you. You're wonderful. Talk to you soon.
Speaker 4 (58:35):
I can't bane
Hosts And Creators
Bethany Joy Lenz
Sophia Bush
Robert Buckley
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