To The Loved Ones We've Lost

Shawn Troy is a family man whose commitment to care extends not just to his relatives, but his community as well. As funeral director at Troy’s Funeral Home in Mullins, South Carolina, he cares for the deceased and their loved ones. With the pandemic, Shawn had to grapple not only with a rising number of deaths due to COVID, but also how to properly honor those losses with social distancing in place. Roundtable guests: Reporter, Producer & host of the Better Together podcast, Maria Menounos, and author and founder of the Faith Matters Network, Reverend Jen Bailey. 

Learn more about Better Together with Maria Menounos: https://mariamenounos.com

Learn more about To My Beloveds and Faith Matters Network: https://www.reverendjen.com

Episode Transcript: https://app.trint.com/editor/mKl9aAooRP-8f1bR_-zOeA

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello, everyone, I'm Wilmar Valderrama and I'm m R Raquel.
Welcome back to Essential Voices. So how are you this week? Wilmer? Oh,
you know me, Mr rocking and rolling now here And
though I don't really listen to a lot of rocking
and rolling, how are you doing? Yeah, I'm doing well.
I'm doing well. Recording these episodes always puts me in
a good mood. Yes, I'm here. And why don't you

(00:23):
kick this off by telling our beloved listeners what this
week is all about? Absolutely so, this week is actually
one of our more intense episodes, but because of that,
I think it's one of our most beautiful. We knew
that we couldn't complete a show about the toll of
the pandemic on our essential workers without taking time to
make space for a conversation about death and grief. The

(00:46):
death hole just recently crossed nine hundred thousand in the
United States, and the impacts of that will be felt
for years, even after mask mandates are lifted, the pop
up testing spots are closed, and we all pick up
the pieces as team. We knew it was important to
acknowledge that we're all grieving, not just for those we lost,
but for the time we've lost, for miss moments of

(01:08):
in person connection, and for the multitude of plans put
on hold. It's definitely a lot to take in, but
we had the privilege of being in conversation about this
loss and how we can all recover, create hopeful futures,
and tend to our grief. Yeah, these were not easy conversations,
but I feels to inspire ones we were done. There
is such power in knowing that we are not alone,

(01:30):
and I hope that everyone listening feels a similar comfort
when joining us for this episode. And just a quick
note to our listeners, this episode deals with death as
a result of COVID nineteen and terminal illness, so keep
that in mind when deciding when and where to listen.
Our essential worker this week is Sean Troy, who is
a funeral director at Troy's Funeral Home in Mullen, South Carolina.

(01:53):
He took over for his father, William Penn Troy, Sr.
After losing him to COVID. We spoke with Shawn about
what it's like caring for the decease and their loved ones,
especially during the pandemic. Afterwards, we'll talk to a reporter
and the host of the Better Together podcast, Mariama Nunos,
and Reverend Gen Bailey of the Faith Matters Network about
their own experiences with grief and how are collective grief

(02:15):
intersex now more than ever, this is a friendly reminder
to all of you that this would be a good
time to get your t shirts ready. Seriously, Sean story
starts right now. Hi, I'm Sean Troy from Mullin, South Carolina. Sean,
thank you so much. If I'm being here with us,
I wanted to ask, you know, if you could explain

(02:37):
to us a little bit your family business and why
did you want to join the family business at Troy's
family funeral home. I started working with my father in
the fielding business when I was in some grade. My brothers,
I had two little brothers. They also helped in the
feeling business. But it's a different paths in life. But

(02:57):
they also helped out, you know, and still come home
and every now and then would need it. But I
love people, are like meeting people, and I also like
helping people, and that's what basically, you know, gave me
the pathway, you know, that's what I wanted to do
in life along my father. That's what type of person
he was, Like I said, helping people in the community
and helping people during their time of the event. Was

(03:19):
there a moment when you were young that made you
passionate about your work. Probably around high school. I started
getting more passionate about it. You know, I was always younger.
My father want to let me back in the embroming
room because back then that time it was just more
bacteria and things. You know, their purifis was powerful that
they are now. But I was more up front with

(03:40):
him and just you know, doing the funerals and working
things like that. But as I got older in high school,
I started to giving them more of a passion for people.
You know, I always love people, always like to talk
me people and everything else. But just working on funerals
and being a part of that became, you know, something
accustomed to me, Like I wanted to do and I
like to do it. There's some things about working in

(04:01):
the funeral services that people don't know about it that
you're even back then your friends had other views or
other thoughts about it. Absolutely, absolutely, just you know, as
a young child and selling eighth grade, there's always jokes
and it's still jokes, you know, people. If I go
to certain places, people say an nobody did here. You know,
it's always certain places like I ain't gold, you know

(04:23):
what I mean. So I mean like my father from
one you never visit folks in the hospital because they
looked at him as defenderal home man. So only people
to use it when they visiting the hospital was this
close family and maybe a close close friend. How did
things change? I'd work with this pandemic just like the world.
Everything has changed now since cool it's come in for us,

(04:45):
we have to take more University of caution. We always
sit University of caution, but this time it's a little
more hectic, you know what I mean, a little heavier
because this COVID thing is pretty heavy, and it is
you know, if the home industry is really taking so big, big,
you know, hits with them when I say here, I'm
talking about it just flooding the funeral and far as
the funeral, you know, industry. It takes a lot on

(05:08):
us as well. You know, we have to work more
a little harder cautions and the funerals has changed as well.
A lot of them are going straight to grave side
versus in the church or whatever. So it's been a
big adjustment for the families as well as us. What
were some of those protocols. What were some of those
obstacles that you were incounting while you were providing funeral

(05:29):
services to families. Well, one of the things that we
was providing, like I said, outside services, tent services, grave
side too many families, wasn't taking what you called the
set up the lights and the shares to the house,
social districts and of course somewhere just emailed and FaceTime
zoom or you know, it's just those are some of

(05:49):
the turns and things that we really went through with
this situation. How is that for you? You kind of
remove the interaction with person to person now the ceremony
that the beauty of this end off has kind of
been disrupted, you know, how how was that on you? Guys?
For the most part, when you're in the funeral industry,
you'll kind of prepared for things like you know, the

(06:10):
far as the death party anyway, So it's not a
happy situation either where you put it. We've been good
with the staff when it first happened, Like I said,
my father caught it and I caught it, so I
got caught it from him, but I'm not sure how
he caught it. Maybe a funeral, I'm not sure where.
But that was in the beginning. So now we're being
more prepped about it because when they first came out,
you know, a lot of people just didn't think it

(06:32):
was real. So it did the minimum. They didn't with
a mask, they didn't do the socialistic thing. And as
they started impacting the hitting people that they know, that's
what starts being the more of an eye catcher, you
know what I mean, Like, oh no, wait a minute,
this is thing is really real. Of course, in New York,
I've read a lot about the head will and freezers.

(06:53):
They were weeks out for even having funerals and getting
your bodies out. It was almost like Vietnam. Just so
many people where maybe two block radios from a case, right,
but they never saw the impact of it. So for
you to be able to paint a picture of whatever
he really was like out there, some people really had
a lot of courage talking about how it was that fake,
you know, how is the flu, how was some coming

(07:15):
that political move you know, But when you started really
paying attention to some of these incidents and how you know,
the increasing cases, and specifically for you to see the
aftermath of it also too abraptly. You know, it's um,
it doesn't get more real than that, you know. And
how did your dad do with the COVID? How do
you guys do with it? We cope with it very well. Um.

(07:36):
When he first contracting devirus, it was just okay, well
he's in the hospital for a few days, but he'll
be okay. So we just looked at in that type
of way. But when he first crime, like I said,
I had it as well, that was in the hospital
as well. So me and my father in the hospital
with only to the work in the business in the family.
My oldest brother came in from Alexander, Virginia. Then he

(07:57):
took care of things here. And you know, while it
was still quarantining, as I came to the hospital fourteen
some more days because that my days wasn't up. And
once I got on well, he went back. But at
the same time my father was still in the hospital,
so you know, I was expecting everybody's expecting. Of course,
like you said, he had some unailment conditions. But after

(08:18):
the sixth week, on one Saturday, we got the call.
We and you know, it was always said that, yeah,
he's he's looking good. This thing is good. Then just
one day just dropped the COVID thing. It just really
hit him on that. You know, he was on the event,
but it was getting better, but then it just took

(08:38):
a turn for worse. So when it took the for
the worst, it was just a big impact to the community.
I mean, I don't know who. I mean, it's hard
to explained that somebody you just a sudden death, you know,
anybody if you know, like a star diet right now
just being amazing, like Kobe Bryant's death, you know, it
would just be a something really amazing to the community.

(09:02):
I thank you for being open to this cousin, Daddy.
I wonder if you mind, you know, maybe sharing a
little bit what made your dad so special to you
into the community. Oh that's a good one man. He
was that person that he don't help anyone. It didn't
matter what it was or what he was going through,
if it was a situation where they lights about to

(09:23):
be cut off, or you know, water bill they laid on,
they rent. He was a politician in the community County Council,
so he served on many different boards in the county.
So you know, he was always out to help anyone
he could in any type of way, if it was
on a board or himself out of his pocket. That

(09:45):
was who he was. With funerals, numerous of families he's
just helped you know what I mean that they didn't
have it, they didn't have much. He helped him out.
That was just who he was as a person. To me,
he was everything I saw looked up to. So, yeah,
it's a big hit. It was a big hit to
me and my family. He was. It was It was

(10:05):
basically the backbone of the whole family, the Troit family.
I can't even imagine, not only just to your family,
but what he represented for the community and how he
was there for families just like you are now carrying
the torch as well. And what was your father's name?
It was William pen Troy. Yeah, well, God bless him
and him and thank you for the love you spread
and for the for the care you took of all

(10:26):
these tons of families, and thank you for being open
with us as well. Man. So how can the community
support the work that you were doing? Where is the mask?
At least where your mask? You know? Lot you mask
can keep your hands clean and just let's stop the
spread of it. That's the first thing. One message would

(10:46):
you like to leave for the future funeral services providers.
Don't go into a bit it's just for money, do
you know, for the people are helping people, or you
just like to be in the prep room doing the
prep work. That's fine as well, that's great, you need
that as well, and you need up front. But if
you're just trying to go into this profession just for money,

(11:07):
it is not for you. It is not going to
be successful business for you. But um, at the same time,
it's a great business. They are needed. More professional funeral
homegoers and em bombers and morticians are needed. So at
the same time, when it's time for you to get
in the funeral home, please be advised to be safe,

(11:30):
social distancing wear the mask, universital caution and the vaccine Tean.
Thank you so much for this great conversation. I really
appreciate you sharing a little bit of your life and
and also your family story as well. You know, I
think more often in this national a global conversation as
they pay tribute to the essential you know, humans who

(11:51):
have been there for us through this very historic time
of our lives. Often we forget that these you know,
ooso individuals who got a higher cold that they weren't
even ready for. And um mag, you still showed up
and you're still there, you know. So all my love
to your family, man, and big hug to you, my brother,
and again more light for your father as well. Appreciation man.

(12:16):
I'm so grateful for the work Sean does, not just
for the loved ones who are grieving, but the entire
community he serves. Sean has sustained an integral part of
his community despite losing his father, who sounded like such
a wonderful human and parent. I'm really grateful to have
gotten to know a little bit about him through Sean's words.
Me too. And I'm thinking about perseverance and how it's

(12:38):
definitely a theme today. So when we get back, we
speak with my dear friend Mariamnunos and Reverend Bailey, author
of To My Beloveds, both of whom work in their
communities with those they love and with everyone grieving these
past two years. M H. First of all, I just

(13:02):
you know, I'm grateful to be here with Rev. Jan
Bailey and Mariamnunos, A sister of mindful Life, and in
these conversations, you know, it's it's worth noting that nobody
really teaches us how to process this stuff. You know,
it kind of just sneaks up, and we have to
learn from our internal instincts, how do you cope, how
do you process? And then you introduce this this time

(13:25):
that we're living right now with the pandemic and where
we're seeing very frustrated and very stressful moments that are
happening to these families. You know, So I like to
start with your reactions to Sean's story, and maybe we'll
start with you, Maria. I um, I mean, obviously, I'm
a daughter of essential workers, so I get it, and
I like you. I'm a daughter of immigrants, you know,

(13:46):
I very much connect and I understand, and you're right,
it was a tall order for people who had to
go to work in the scariest time that we've ever faced,
I think in our time. Obviously, it's really sad to
hear that he had to go through that whole experience.
I mean, if you're working in a funeral home and

(14:06):
then you have to deal with the loss of your
own that's just like a really tough thing to deal with,
and so yeah, it's interesting to hear the behind the
scenes that we weren't privy to and how challenging it
was at that time for them. And you know, having
to come up with new systems on the fly and
having to figure things out and do things a whole

(14:28):
new way. It's not easy and under dress it's hard
enough to make adjustments and changes in regular times, forget
in extreme times. And you know, I dealt with my
parents getting COVID at that time as well, before vaccines,
and that was really scary and really challenging and ultimately
led to me losing my mom. So I I understand

(14:51):
what COVID has taken from people. Well, thank you for
being so vulnerable and so open with your fans and
with all of us. You know, it really is in
many is therapeutic and enlightening to really hear your journey,
you know, because it is one of healing, and it
is one of celebration to the memory of your mother
has been so present and everything you do every day,

(15:11):
it's really inspiring to see that you can continue to
carry her with you everywhere you go. So Rev. Jan Bailey,
thank you for being here as well, and what about you,
What were your thoughts or reactions to Sean's story. I
think the first thing that struck me about Sean was
just how familiar he felt to me as somebody who

(15:32):
was raised by Southern black folks, like even in the
cadence of his speech. And I have members of my
family who are funeral home directors, and so I know
very intimately the role of the funeral home as um
like the church, a parallel sort of institution within the
community that provides a sense of support and sort of

(15:53):
unspoken grace in the midst of the arc of folks lives.
And so I think that for something that struck me
about Sean was like, oh, he could be one of
my cousins, right Like there there was something that was
really familiar to me. I think also as somebody who
has had the great honor and I call it an

(16:14):
honor of walking with people who have lost folks to
COVID over the past year and a half in my
my role of minister, it struck me just how much
so many of us are sitting with not just current grief,
but delayed grief. Um. There's this way in which I

(16:35):
experienced for myself as I was hearing shantalk. I got
teared up because I remember that I've had two funerals
over the past two years, one of a close friend
of mine from high school who passed away not from
COVID but in the midst of the pandemic less than
a month after my son was born, and figuring out
how to navigate that he was strange from his family

(16:56):
of origin, so the chosen family had to figure out
what is that look like to do a virtual funeral? UM?
What does it look like to figure out in the
midst of a pandemic how to go get his body
from this other location right navigating that UM? And my
grandmother passed away this past August at the peak of delta,

(17:16):
and figuring out with my family, what does it look
like to to gather in community in these times and
celebrate the life of a woman who was just everything
to me. She would have been ninety years old this
month and still not be able to do like the
things we do in community around grief. So you know,

(17:38):
in the Black Church tradition of which I'm apart, we
don't have funerals. We have homegoing services that usually last six, seven,
eight nine hours, and we're with each other and we
tarry until our morning turns into dancing, and then we
eat and then we you know, and there are these
ways in which we mark rituals and communities, and particularly
in immigrant communities and communities of color, that have been um.

(17:59):
I wouldn't say lost for figuring out ways to innovate, right,
but we can't do the thing that we know how
to do. And so I think there's just to me
like the waves of grief. There's the immediate grief around lost,
but then there's the grief that comes up when you
reflect on what you couldn't do in that moment and
still trying to hold onto the memories of those we

(18:19):
care about so deeply. Yeah, I thank you for sharing that.
That's amazing what comes up for me in these conversations.
And now that you marry and you re Janet, have
have shared your your thoughts and your vulnerabilities. You know,
my best friend today lost his mom, his dad, and
his younger brother, oh within three months. I was just

(18:40):
blown away by the strength in what he leaned on.
And what he leaned on was culture, was tradition, and
he leaned on what he knew best, which was the
tribute the honoring, oh, you know, their memories and the
ceremonial intrad Asian ancestry that was passed down to it,

(19:02):
and how to cope and how to handle and how
to celebrate to the grief. And in these conversations as
immigrants that we all are, you know, we carry a
little bit of that tradition. Somehow something has passed on
to us, and somehow it's in us, and somehow it
triggers and it ignites like some kind of you know,
awoken instinct in us too to handle the way we can.

(19:24):
But as you were saying, re Gen, you know, there
there is so many definitions, so many different versions of
this grief that that we've you know, we've had a
tough time you know, evolving with m Yeah, Wilma, that's
so true. Our grief is something that we really do
carry with us and learn to live with throughout our lives.

(19:45):
And also, rev Gen, something that you said that resonates
with me is mourning the loss of the thing that
you can't do and in this case, because of COVID
and losing the tradition of gathering to mourn and celebrating
love ones when they pass um over the summer, I
actually lost my nineties year old grandpa, not to COVID,

(20:07):
but still it was complicated because I'm on the West Coast,
some of my families on the East Coast, Others are
in the Midwest, somewhere in the South, so we're really
all over the place. And in that moment, I was
reminded of the gift that a FaceTime call can be,
but also sitting with the knowledge that it's not just
as easy as saying, I'm getting on the first plane
I can find, because there are other factors to contend with,

(20:29):
the biggest being COVID and keeping our families safe. So,
you know, back to what you were saying, rev Gin,
there is a delayed grief and many many other tiers
of grief due to the pandemic that may not even
be digested or understood for many more years. Because what
about the grief that hits when our families and loved
ones were diagnosed in those early days, Like I remember

(20:53):
when I found out my mom was diagnosed, my mom
had stage four brain cancer. So we were already being hyper,
you know, aware and scared, oof and and I was
back east and we had just canceled their trip for
Thanksgiving because I said, guys, it's just too dangerous. Everyone's
getting it. There's just no way you guys can come

(21:16):
back home. And Kevin called me one night and he said, Maria,
your parents aren't right. I think they need you. I
think you have to come back. And I said, okay,
because I was just going to plan on spending Thanksgiving
alone on the East Coast, because it was not smart
for me to get on a plane and bring it
to them either. So I got on the plane and
I told everyone, don't tell them. I'm going to surprise them.

(21:39):
And on the plane, I'm like watching Jackass movies, laughing
my butt off, thinking, Okay, I'm priming. This is gonna
be good. We're gonna have a great time. It's gonna
be fine. And I landed to text messages your mom
was rushed to the hospital and responsive, and it's like
you're in a car wreck. You're like, my legs were
chopped off. I couldn't even speak, thinks I was just

(22:03):
a complete wreck and didn't know where to go, Like
you're on a plane still you're still in the capsule.
And I raced to the hospital. And as I'm getting
the hospital, it's pretty clear she has COVID, and I'm like,
I might never see her again. This is it. She's
already in I can't even see her. And I remember

(22:26):
meeting Kevin and my dad in the in the parking
lot and I hugged them, knowing they probably were infected.
But I'm like, I need my last hug. God forbid,
I can't see them again too. And it was just
so scary. And we did get through. Um, we got

(22:47):
through those hospital moments and we got them home. But
there's a grief to that moment of when you think
the bottom is falling out and you think it's over right.
In those times, a stage four brain cancer patient was
not supposed to make it. My dad was Type one
diabetic for fifty years, not supposed to make it. He
went in two days later, I think it was. And

(23:07):
so now I had two parents in two different hospitals
in l A. I'm fielding calls like dirty Harry in
a movie. And then how do I I can't control anything.
I'm their caretaker and I can't take care of them.
And then you have to rely on these essential workers,
these nurses and these doctors. And one cool thing that
I did get to do and God blessed nurses for

(23:31):
even having the patience and the heart and the compassion
to put us on FaceTime with our family members. On
FaceTime a lot with my mom, my dad. I knew
was more stable. My mom. You know, I was really
really scared. And one of the nurses said, you know, well,
what if we just put her on twenty four hour FaceTime?
Like what if we just had a going I said,

(23:53):
my husband made these little phone stands. I said, I'm
gonna bring it in. So I put the phone on
the stand, had them plug it into the wall, and
my mom and I were twenty four hours a day together.
I slept with her, I prayed with her. I talked
to her. Sometimes it would take hours for her brain
to get out of the fog and answer me. But
I would keep her brain stimulated and I would keep

(24:14):
her moving, her mind moving, and I did church services
with her. And then was able to see things that
other nurses didn't get to see because they were zipping
her in and out. They were coming into a zippered room.
So I would say, guys, I think her feet are swelling,
or guys, I think she's coughing. She's coughing when you
guys are leaving. I think she made some medicine. I

(24:35):
had her in the car with me, I had her
in the bathroom like I showered. The iPad would be
twisted to the side. But there's a grief in those
moments that I don't think we've even discussed. And the
impact of that fear and terror, that's a whole other level.
We'll be right back after this break. Welcome back to

(24:57):
essential voices. Those are evolution sinary moments for our souls.
Right to endure, to to understand the process, you know,
to function through the face of that. You know, commute
turns into strength and turns into understanding, you know, and
you have a level understanding for life. I mean, look,
if there's someone in my life that has enjoyed her parents,

(25:21):
has been Maria. Maria enjoyed every second and every inch
of those parents, you know. I mean, like from traveling
the world to party and to like dinners to you know.
So there's a great example, you know, And I think
as I say this out love, which is I don't
want this to be you know, it's it's gonna sound

(25:41):
like the end of the podcast, but it really isn't.
But we should really remember that we we all have
an expiration date and that while the goods are good,
we should keep cooking. You know. But you know, you've
been incredibly generous, Maria about sharing your your story with
your parents. You're bettle with code, So I really share
you being so vulnerable and offering that. But um m r.

(26:03):
And you had a thought I would love to hear
it thought, Yeah, I was just gonna say that, Maria. Wow,
I am so moved and I literally have goose bumps
from hearing what you just shared and by learning what
you were able to do with and for your mom
on twenty four our FaceTime. I'm not the most connected
to the phone as most folks here at Essential Voices. No,

(26:24):
but I've never heard of this as an option before
for family members in intensive care, and it sounds like
a real life saving opportunity for both you and your
mom at a time when you could not physically be together,
you were able to communicate with her nurses when you
noticed her feet were swollen or when she was coughing,
and you were able to take care of her from afar.

(26:44):
It's just really incredibly beautiful. I keep putting my hand
over my heart as you speak, and rev Jen, I've
been noticing you make the same gesture. I'm thinking about
your mom, Maria, and if you want to share with
us about who she was. But beforehand, rev Jen, just
because I've been seeing you really in this conversation doing
the same thing I've been doing, I'm wondering if you

(27:06):
have anything to add about what Maria just shared. Oh, Maria,
I mean tears because my mom died of stage war
cancer in m started as breast cancer and then metastasized
on her brain. And so as you're sharing your story, um,
one of the great gifts of my life is to
walk with her when she was on hospice, and so

(27:27):
I remembered finding all of these like books of like
she called her brain books. She would try to work
through the brain fog and like knowing what your story
is like bringing up in me like sense memories of
what it was like to accompany her in that time.
But Maria, like I got to be next to my

(27:48):
mom at her bedside, and the fact that you didn't
have that opportunity I did, actually did you? Oh? I
got her out of the hospital. Don't you worry with her? Oh? No?
Oh no, this is a woman who she had glioblastoma.
They give you six to twelve months. My mom got

(28:09):
almost five years. I walked with her every minute for
five years. I was I took the ferocity I put
into my career and just shifted it into my mom.
And she's a walking miracle. And we got her out
of the hospital. What took her down was that the
COVID meter so weak that we couldn't give her the chemo.

(28:31):
We couldn't give her the treatment, and then the tumor
just got bigger and bigger and bigger. And so I
brought her back East to be with family, and I
went through the whole hospice journey, and I was with
her every second of every day outside of when I
was sleeping. Um And by the way, I have learned
so much. I'm like an expert hospice worker now, and

(28:53):
I know how to help other people walk through their
journeys and shortcut so many solutions and things for that
because I I definitely learned a lot, and as a
problem solver and a producer, I'm like quick to identify
the things. But yeah, I never wanted my mom to
be alone. So that twenty four hour FaceTime thing was
really important for her not to feel alone and scared.

(29:15):
What she was a warrior, that woman never was afraid
of anything. But I still didn't want her to be alone.
And I really needed if if we were going to
beat this, which I really believed we could. Um, I
needed her mind to stay active and to be with
me and not to lose her, not for her to fade.
But yeah, I am grateful I got that, And I'm
really sorry that you had to go through that whole

(29:37):
thing with your mom. It's excruciating. I wish our moms
could have met because it sounds like they were both
warrior women. My mom had cancer for fourteen years and
treated it like a chronic illness, like a chronic illness, right,
And so I'm like listening you talk about your mom
and like, did our moms have the same like warrior

(29:57):
woman's spirit? And it just, um, you're bringing me back
to some of those sense memories. But I think one
of the things that you're pointing to around this question
of the grief of finding out is the trauma of
this moment that we haven't had the space to process yet. Right, Like,
I think about the number of children who now have

(30:19):
lost both parents, like there is a generational impact of
this particular pandemic that we won't see the arc of
for decades to know the full impact of. And we
also know that trauma gets imprinted on our DNA. And
so I'm holding these questions of how do we move
through collectively as communities, what it means to hold trauma

(30:42):
and release trauma in this season because we have not
yet seen the end of it, and I think that
there are embedded within our communities these rituals, these practices,
these modalities of healing that can begin to point us
towards how we tend to grief, not individually, because I
think that's the great lie of this time, right, is

(31:03):
that so many people are living and breathing in isolation
because of quarantine. But remembering that we're not alone in
our grief, that there is grief being felt collectively in
this moment, makes the burden a little bit lighter and
a little bit easier to carry because you know that
you're not alone. And so I'm just I'm holding you
and your family really close. I'm holding this question of

(31:25):
what it means for us to like not quite have
processed everything and not even know where we're going with
this pandemic, and I'm holding Sean and um calling the
name of his father, William as ancestor who's going to
be guiding him, even though he's not here anymore. In
the same way, Maraya, your mom is guiding you, and
my mom fiercely lets her presence be known. Especially that

(31:48):
I'm a new mom, I can like feel her presence
with my baby, and I can feel her direction. So Um,
I'm grateful that even even now we're being guided by
those ancestors who are with us. You both mentioned your
mom's and their spirits, and Um, you know, as we
acknowledge their spirit that obviously still lives within you and
all around you. Rev Gen, youre right about losing your

(32:11):
mother in your book, My beloveds, can you tell us
a little bit about her? I am Christine's baby, a
k A. Cookie Um who was raised in southern Illinois
and born in nineteen fifty three. She was the type
of woman who was strong because she carried her community

(32:31):
and her family on her back. Um. She was somebody
who laughed like nobody was watching, like had the most goofy, loud,
obnoxious laugh and didn't care. She was a woman who
was the first in her immediate family to go to college.
She Um was a mama and a friend through and through.

(32:52):
I think one of the gifts of the relationship I
got to have with my mom is that I saw
it evolved from like mommy daughter to the like friend.
And I know that's not a gift that everybody gets
to have. Um. She was organized and like a boss,
like a true boss in a way that I aspire
to be. UM. She was the type of woman that, like,

(33:15):
if somebody in the community needed anything, in a heartbeat,
she would make it happen. Um. She loved turnip greens
and mustard greens and like, but couldn't wasn't the best cook.
My grandmother was a cook, and so she used to
like go and visit my granny and we would come
home with the deep freezer full of like greens and

(33:35):
like pool beans and all these southern vegetables. But then
we'd take and eat on for the year, because that's
how my family did. Um. Busy being a boss, being
a Bosum. And thank you for asking me about her,
because it's only been you know, she's been gone five
almost six years, Um, but it's only been within the
last year or so that I can like smile when

(33:57):
I think of the memory of her, because I think,
and this is true, I think, And maybe a word
of hope I want to offer those who've lost somebody
in the last two years. The grief was just too
intense for me. I was the only one in the
room when she transition, when she passed away, And so
for so long my memories were of the end um
and the gift of giving birth. I didn't plan to

(34:20):
give birth in the middle of a pandemic. But the
gifted my baby Max, who's now sixteen months old, is
that he's begun to like open up like these memories
and unlock these memories that had been too sad for
me to access with my mom, and like the little
things that she used to do, the way she used
to rub my back, the song she used to sing
to me, the prayers she prayed over me, um. And

(34:42):
and so thank you for asking about her, because I
can smile when I think of her now, And it's
it's in the tears that calm our, tears of joy
remembering her life and legacy, rather than the tears of
sadness that had been really characterized the last five years
of my grief, and so I would also say, like
grief as a journey, it doesn't end when we bury someone.
I think there's like this cultural incentive in the United

(35:04):
States to like get over it and get back to
work in some cases when it comes to our grief.
But um, there are hills and there valleys, and it's
a journey. It's about adjusting to life in a way.
For me, my mom was my compass, so like I
had to have to come up with a new compass right,
a new orientation in the world. I will never be

(35:26):
the same without her, and I know that her presence
and her legacy lives within me. And so yeah, she
was the best. Basically y'all would have loved her. She
also could dance and like used to leave me on
the dance floor, like just like push me did the
side so she could dance to her old school R
and B and get her groove on. And so yeah,

(35:48):
I hold, I'm so blessed here you share those memories. Absolutely, Maria,
I'd love to know about your mom. What was she like? Um,
I will add it's funny you said five years, because
my husband lost his dad and anytime you know, like
it's a journey. I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. And

(36:09):
then I Mac Truck just hits me with just grief,
and I was like, honey, And I always asked him,
is this what it was like for you? And He's like, Maria,
the first five years are going to suck. The first
five years are gonna suck. And I'm like, oh my god,
I'm at like seven months. This is really hard. And
by the way, we both lost young mothers, you know,
because my mom was born in fifty four, so our

(36:31):
moms were both really young. And that's a whole other
thing to grief, because you're like, wait, they're supposed to
see our kids, right Like, I mean, that's in the
perfect world that we want to live in. They're supposed to.
But um, we're lucky. We got what we got, you know,
when you think of other people, obviously, But my mom
was an immigrant from Galamata, Greece. Wilma knows her because

(36:54):
you met her many times, and she was amazing. I mean,
she was a caretaker for my dad with diabetes and
cooked like her ass off. I mean I used to
challenge Rachel Ray and everybody to cook offs. My mo
Mom's going to be the best, she'll win. And so
my mom's cooked for every celebrity chef. So here's this

(37:16):
little school cafeteria cook who then became a cookbook author
with me, and she cooked for Rachel Ray, Bobby Flay,
Giada de Laurentis, and so, um, you know my mom,
As Wilmer said, I took them everywhere, everywhere. I wanted
them to experience every inch of success that I had

(37:38):
because my parents were janitors growing up, and I'm like,
no, no no, no, there's a whole other world out there, guys,
let's go, let's have fun, let's explore. Um. She loved
Tom Selleck. I took her to the Emmy's and Tom
Selleck give her a kiss on the cheek. Oh god, Yeah,
she was amazing. She was super, super selfless. Um, probably

(38:00):
to a fault, which I think ultimately kind of leads
to the demise because they just give, give, give, give, give,
and then they have nothing left. Um. But she taught
me how to be strong and how to survive anything
in everything, and um, and she could dance rrass up
to Wow, Maria, your mom sounds amazing. I mean both

(38:23):
your mom sound amazing. I would have loved and been
really honored to share space with both of them. But
I'm so grateful to be getting to know them a
little through your memories right now. And you know, we've
been talking today about different personal losses that extend beyond
this conversation today, because at some point, inevitably, everyone will
lose a loved one. It's a shared part of our humanity.

(38:45):
And Reverend gen a few minutes ago you offered a
piece of hope for folks that have been mourning loved
ones during the last two years. And so for you,
as a faith leader, how do you speak with folks
and help folks dealing with grief and loss in your
communities and beyond well, I think one of them the
great gifts of being in faith communities is that, like,

(39:08):
if there's one thing we know how to do, it's
be with people at the best and worst times of
their lives. And like we're trained for it. Right So,
you know, my husband's Jewish, and when I think about
within that tradition, like the rituals of like mourning and
death and like lighting yard side candles and saying Mourner's cottage, right, um,

(39:29):
But there are ways of being in resources that I
think faith communities have to bring to these conversations about
grief and loss. And you know, in my own tradition,
the scripture that I often turned people to when I'm
sitting with them, which when I was growing up, when
I was doing Bible bulls as a kid, like everybody
would like have this quote scripture and if you forgot something,

(39:51):
you would say, Jesus wept right. But as I have journeyed,
especially journey alongside my mom when she was on hospice,
that notion my own tradition, that Jesus wept right. He
wept a friend who died in this case in the scripture,
like He's about to raise this friend from the dead
and knows it right. But that there's something about the

(40:11):
fact that God's spirit um whatever you might call it
from your location, is with us in the midst of
our morning, and that we're not alone. That that spirit
you know again, I call it God, you can call
it whatever makes sense to you. You might call it
love right, is present with you in the midst of it.

(40:32):
And that you're not alone is a starting point that
and that you know again, as I mentioned before, that
grief is not something that happens in one minute right,
or like that ends, it's a really about a reconfiguration
of our hearts and that that is a journey, and
that the death of my mom broke me open um.

(40:54):
The death of my friend Glendon who passed away in
broke me open. The death of my mother in at
the peak of Delta right broke me open. And by
being broken open, I was able to both receive lub
differently and be transformed both by their memory and by
their death. And so I feel like there's so much

(41:18):
that we have to learn from death and through this
like the process of accompanying people who are dying. I
think it was the author Tony Morrison who in her
Nobel Prize Um acceptance speech said, like, we die and
that might be the point of life, right, and that
there's something really profound about that in a culture that's

(41:38):
really afraid of death and doesn't talk about it or
wants to hide it. So like, I think that helping
people recognize that you're not alone in your grief journey,
that it is a journey, that you're not alone, not
just in terms of people, but there there's something bigger,
whatever you might call that bigger holding you are all
assets I think that at our best, because faith communities
get a lot of things wrong. Yeah, a lot. I

(42:01):
think it's wrong at our best. Um, those are the
resources of our traditions that we bring to bear to
these questions. We'll be right back after this break, welcome
back to essential voices, your spot on, Rev Gen that
this is a collective experience. More so than probably anything
else in our lifetimes. This pandemic has been inescapable in

(42:23):
some capacity for all of us. And no one has
been left unscaped by COVID, whether that's mental health wise,
whether that's the loss of a loved one or the
loss of in person connection. Everyone's been affected. And Rev Gen,
you're providing some incredible guiding words for all of us
right now. Thank you so much. I'm just inspired by
both of you and and personally, I've I've lost so

(42:48):
many different types of relationships to passing, you know, best friends,
family members, um ACQUINSS CO workers, and I've lost you know,
big portion of them to depression and to confusion. And
when I come full circle about process in the time
that we have, and I'll let that sit for a second,

(43:08):
because sometimes we think I loved one's time, there's hours
to you know, to share it or to have an
opinion about And everyone's time is different, whether it's a
parent and best friend. If God called them for a
higher purpose, if they passed, whatever you believe happens, that

(43:30):
was the time they had, right And I trying to
think of myself as like, you know, how how have
I been able to have this interesting close relationship with death?
What I've been able to understanding process and and you know,
and at the same time, I asked myself, have I
ever really process it? In the reason when I say

(43:52):
this is because I feel the emotions the moment it happens,
and as soon as it happens, I I feel like
everyone in this goal has the instinct too, like, Okay,
we can't just be also falling apart like you know
everyone else. I feel like we also have to have
it together. So you know, we're going to celebrate it.
And you kind of pivot and you put your own

(44:13):
grief aside, and then you you know, you tap into
it a little later than and then you do the
inventory of have valuable the grief is and how evolutionary
it could be if you were to lean into it
and give yourself to it. Um, grief sometimes, I think
gets a perception, gets the image of sadness, you know.

(44:36):
I think people have interpreted grief as a scary feeling,
you know, so they avoid it. I think film, television,
you know, music has really interpreted grief as um as
a very very painful feeling. Not until I realized that
my grief came in the form of acceptance and realization

(45:00):
and then doing an audit of what those personal relationships
to me meant to me in the long run, or
what contributed and what did they leave behind with me.
Those were the things that actually I celebrated through my
grief and I leaned back into my culture when I
bring full circle to how all of us have decided
that we have a different way of coping, and I

(45:21):
think about how when there's a funeral in our in
my culture, everybody wears black and you know, you're at
the funeral and you pray, you bring as much light
as you possibly can. But then when everybody gathers back
at the house, Yeah, yeah, that's when the bottle of

(45:41):
Aguardi and tequila and all that stuff comes out. And
then at that point it's a celebration of the funniest
stories you had to share with that person, and that
is the send off, um for a lot of my
culture stuff. And I think a lot of our cultures
can relate to the same thing, no matter if you're
lading or not. You know, I feel like some of
us have that virtue. But in bringing a full circle,

(46:02):
you know, sharing this thoughts and sharing your personal thoughts.
I mean, I'm assuming you've had some type of feedback
from your fans. Your audience is your community, you know. So, Maria,
what has been someone the responds to telling your story?
And where have you heard from other folks that you
know whose last ones to either COVID or just the
actual fact that he was their time. Um. I think

(46:26):
people are just happy to hear kind of an honest
take and to just kind of be a part of
the journey, especially since so many people are going through
it simultaneously. We do have a tendency, I think nowadays
to think that the only emotion that's acceptable is happy,
and if I'm not happy, like Disney World happy, there's

(46:47):
something wrong with me. And I think that one of
my kind of things is to make sure everybody understands
that it's not real life and it's not supposed to
be a real life. We're supposed to have a variety
of experiences and emotions and they're all okay. And also
it's okay for all of us have different responses to

(47:09):
death and different experiences with morning. And that was another
big message that I wanted to get across with my show,
better together, because when my mom passed, I had done
so much prep work leading up to I was I
was walking parallel lanes. I was holding hope for a
miracle because she had been a miracle for so long.

(47:31):
I was like, oh God, I know we can do this.
I know we can do this. But if it's her
time and it's a different story here, I'm gonna hold
space for that as well. And so we walked that line,
and I just there was almost something about me that
was like eager to see the end because I didn't
know what was going to happen. I was also kind

(47:52):
of excited that we could have this miraculous moment. Like
Anita mar Johnny and if you don't know her story,
she wrote an incredible book called Dying to Be Me.
Her body was ravage with cancer. They were the priests,
was reading the last rites she was in a coma
and then she had this experience on the other side,
came back and within three days she was totally healed.
So I knew, I know it's possible. I know what

(48:14):
is possible. Um So when my mom passed, it was
very strange. And you know, a couple of family members
came for a quick jaunt and then they went and
continued with their Easter plans because it was Easter Sunday.
That kind of shocked me, and so was I was
left with Kevin and we were in Connecticut, and I

(48:36):
just went out into the pond on a little paddle
boat and drink a beer and said, I have to
go get her outfit for the funeral. And I think
I have the strength to do it right now because
I was in this kind of shock and and I
needed to be active in the moment, needed to do something.
But I was a little numb. I mean I cried

(49:00):
at some point, and then when the funeral came, I
didn't cry at all, and that was shocking to me.
But I also didn't feel safe. I don't know why,
but there was an energy that was there was compounded
by the awkwardness of COVID. Because we were lucky enough
to be able to gather with everybody, and I also

(49:20):
just didn't feel safe to have my emotions there. And
I thought about it, and I made sure I talked
about it on my show. I said, people could have
looked at me and said, how come she wasn't crying?
It's her mom, I mean. And no one could ever
tell me anything other you know, there's no criticism that
could come my way that would ever stick, because I
know what I did for my mom, and I know
how much I love her, how much I care for her.

(49:42):
And there was another moment where we took the caretakers
out that we're helping us to dinner. I think it
was like three nights after because one of them was
flying flying away and and I said, uh, they're seeing
us laughing at this restaurant and and enjoying ourselves, and
they must think what a horrible person her daughter is.

(50:03):
But you need those moments of levity, and you need everything.
You need every emotion, you need every experience, and your
journeys and be different than other people's. And you can't
assume you know how you will handle things unless you've
handled it, and even then everyone has a different way.
So that was one of the things that I really
felt was important to share with people and to let

(50:25):
them know that everyone's gonna have a different experience and
they're going to handle themselves differently. And I think a
lot of people really appreciated that. And then also, I'll
share one little thing that a grief dou Lah taught
me that was really really helpful for me. As we
were really getting closer and closer to the end, she
said to me, what is it the you love most

(50:46):
about your mom? Like I'll ask you reption, like, what
was the thing you love most about your mom? If
you had to pick one thing, I would say her laugh.
I loved her laugh, right, and the joy that she
brought into space. That so yeah, okay. And I said
to you know, my mom was the most selfless woman
I've ever known. And she said, it's interesting you didn't

(51:07):
say her hair, her skin, her nails, her eyes. You
didn't pick anything physical. And that's because it's the soul connection,
it's the love, and all of that is eternal that
never dies. The physical body dies, but that's always going
to be there and always going to be with you.
And so it helped me kind of understand that they're Okay,

(51:29):
there's a separation that's going to happen, but there isn't
a separation, and that helped me through the kind of
initial phases of it all. And you know, like we've
talked about, you're going to have all these different hurdles
and things to jump through and different stages of grief.
But you know, everyone's got a different journey in a
different way of handling it. And I think when you're

(51:51):
you're right, a lot of people just rush back into
let's get to work, let's forget about this, let's move on,
and you can, and it's a good coping tool, but
you can't also avoid it because that pain is going
to manifest in your body if you don't let it out.
And so for me, it's been really important to you know,

(52:14):
not have people stifle me when I'm sad. You know,
your your friend's reactions are usually don't cry, don't cry,
and I'm like, no, no no, no, please, just let me cry.
I have to ut this out. I don't want cancer, Like,
let me let it out. And so just the other day,
I had one of those mactruck moments when I had
to approve a video and I saw a photo of
my mom in the video and she had a little

(52:35):
beanie on and she looked weak and tired, and I
just lost my ship. And Kevin came in and he
was like holding my heart in my head and you
just let me cry and let me let it out.
And I was snuggling with my dogs. And you know
you have to let people, you gotta, and you know
this Rev. Gien very well. I'm sure you've got to
hold space for people to let it out. Yeah. Wow, Marie,

(53:00):
thank you so much for sharing this with us. There
really isn't, as you're saying, kind of any rhyme or
reason for when these waves of grief wash over us,
like you're describing in your Mac Truk moment recently. Personally,
I find those moments to be, while sometimes very disruptive,
also very soothing. It's like a Catharsis from way deep

(53:21):
down within the body letting me know, hey, slow down,
it's time for a release. You've been holding so much
inside of you let it out, as you said. So.
I love when you're describing how friends will often say no, no,
don't cry, but your response is that you want to
cry because that release is so healthy and and so necessary,
so thank you for saying that, and I want to
turn it over to you, Reverend Gen and acknowledge that

(53:44):
in this conversation we've been talking about various forms of
grief and loss throughout the past two years and beyond,
when there's also been this unprecedented loss of life not
due to COVID, but also something that we haven't mentioned
yet is the ongoing public and to size losses that
we experienced due to police brutality during the last two years.

(54:04):
We lost George Floyd and Brianna Taylor, Ahmad are very Dante, right,
Macaya Bryant, and so many other beloved souls. So can
you speak to what your approaches to reframing grief as
also inclusive of celebration and healing during these moments of
public outcries of grief. Yeah. Yeah, I think one of

(54:28):
the things that I've learned, both with personal loss and
grief and the sort of public spectacle that becomes when
we have these moments of recorded violence, um and death
is I'm thinking about the difference between happiness and joy
and that those are two very different things, and that

(54:50):
happiness might be a fleeting moment. Right, So folks might
believe that like in grief and then you're happy again.
But like joy is actually a state of being that
is big enough and wide enough to hold our grief
and hold all of our love. And so I think
one of the things that I'm holding is I think
about these really politicized deaths that are a part of

(55:12):
a long legacy of deaths that reached back to um.
Think about like the mothers of the movement, and and
it tell and like all these un untold stories of
lynching victims, and the and the nineteen twenties and thirties
and beyond and beyond and beyond this sort of history
of politicized violence, in particular against black and brown bodies.

(55:34):
And I think about how people move through on a
very practical level, how people tap into a sense of
joy even the midst of loss. It is only done
in community. It's only done when folks can hold one another,
whether that be physically or spiritually, and recognize and see

(55:56):
in one another that pain transforming into the possibleity of
deeper connection to one another. So I think it's really
powerful that after George Floyd's death, we saw, even if
it was just for a moment, like for me, I
call these like what they call cairos. Moments like these
in breakings, like a vision, a glimpse of what what
the world could be like, people taking to the streets, right,

(56:19):
and one accord. It was just a moment. Don't get
me wrong, Right, we still got a lot of work
to do, and we see poll members going back and
forth around things like black Lives Matter, Right, But there
was a moment that showed us what it looks like
to show up for one another in grief and when
something is wrong. Right, And so I think what those
moments have shown me is the possibility of what it

(56:42):
looks like when communities come together to grieve and more
in collectively, in the transformation that can happen and shift
out of the power of that grief and that love
and the possibility of joy even in the midst of
all of that sorrow. Thank you for your isdom there,
Rev Gen. You're pointing to finding this power in these

(57:04):
moments when communities are banding together to be out protesting
and organizing on the front lines, and the necessity for
creating space to grieve collectively and in community, finding solidarity
in one another. There's a lot to be learned from
that process and you lead me directly into my next question,
which I'd like to pose for all of you. We're

(57:25):
at this point in the conversation when usually we start
thinking about the work that still needs to get done,
and that's obviously part of this conversation, but in this
particular conversation we've been having, they're sort of a reframing
of this question I want to pose since it has
been such a personal conversation, and so for each of you,
instead of the work that needs to be done, I'd

(57:46):
like to frame it as what is your light at
the end of the tunnel and what keeps you going? So, Maria,
could you start us off, how do you keep going going? Well?
I use Rocky as my inspiration. Rocky said, it ain't
about how hard you hit, It's about how hard you

(58:07):
can get hit and keep moving forward. And that was
a big north star for me when I got my
brain tumor and my mom had hers and we were
going through our dual journeys. And then also that life
is happening for you, not to you, and so that
there's always some lessons, some growth, some change, something in

(58:29):
it that you're not seeing. And you know, with death
and disease, and all of these things. It's really hard
when someone's taken too young, or someone's taking you know, inappropriately,
like we were just talking about. But there are lessons
in everything. And I remember when I used to do
my children's hospital events with determinally ill kids. I would

(58:50):
grab my mom and I'm like, Mom, how, why, why
do these little kids have to suffer and die? This
is just brutal, Like how could God allow this? And
she said me, She goes, well, how would we have
empathy if these things didn't happen? And I was like, yeah, okay,
you're right. They you know, in a weird way, they

(59:13):
have a purpose too. And so I just know how
to keep moving forward. And I know that this is
all just a part of life. You can't just crumble.
You can have your moments where you come well, you
can have your weekend where you carmel, but you got
to pick up and keep moving forward. That's life. And
anyone who's crossed over to the other side, they're doing

(59:35):
their thing. I know my mom's up there Greek dancing,
and she's holding her dog, and she's with her parents,
and she always wanted to be reunited with her mom,
and and it's going to be a blink before we're
all with them. So I do understand logically it's all
going to happen to all of us at some point.
And there there's those you know, stories that you hear

(59:56):
that are always worse than yours when a little kid
is orphaned, and you're like, wait, I'm super lucky. My
mom got to see my success. She got to be
a part of it. So I think of all those things,
and then I remember the last thing she told me
when her tumor came back, and you know, I was here,
Tom Brady. I was a quarterback, so I was the
tough one who was like, Okay, this is what we're doing,
blah blah blah. And I on the advice of my therapist.

(01:00:21):
She was like, Maria, just go be a daughter and
tell her how you feel. So I went downstairs and
I melted on the couch with her, like I'm scared.
I don't know if I can fix this time. And
you know what if I if I don't do things
right and this doesn't work, and and she was like,
I don't know what's going to happen, and you don't
know what's going to happen. We're going to try her back.
She's like, but if something happens, I want you to
promise me one thing. And I said what, and she's like,

(01:00:43):
always keep smiling. And so that's what I try to do,
as you see, even through the tears, and always like
trying to squeeze out the smile because I can hear
her saying, don't can I Maria, Maria, thank you so
much for sharing that. I I'm really hearing and feeling
your mom's presence through what you just shared and her

(01:01:04):
words of advice for all of us to keep smiling.
I love that. And for you, rev Gen, what keeps
you going? I have this little miracle that greets me
sometimes at three am, demandingly, sometimes you know, after school,
running up to me after daycare. But who is like
open to the world and learning new things every single

(01:01:28):
second of the day and like at a time that
feels like so many people are so locked into what
they know, where they think they know, knowing that there's
this little human who's just learning and he doesn't care
about anything doing right, Like, doesn't care I'm will be
on podcast, doesn't care that I wrote a book, doesn't

(01:01:48):
care that I like, doesn't care right, But he cares
about his like mom is here, and like, what a
gift to see like the possibility in him, like he
is whenever I'm feeling hopeless, like my spark of creativity
and imagination, because I just see him like playing with
his blocks, learning words right, just like creating and doing

(01:02:09):
and being and becoming right Like I think that's it.
Like to be able to bear witness to his becoming
right now, What a miracle that is, What a gift
that is, And like he keeps me going. Rev Gen, Wow,
your son sounds like he is just full of wonder
and bringing so much spirit and soul into your world.

(01:02:31):
What an incredible source of inspiration to keep you going.
And that's something I feel like might resonate with you, Womer,
with your daughter Nicano, And so for you, what's what's
your light at the end of the tunnel and what
keeps you going? You know, I'm going to bring it
back to this thing that I think I've said it
on the show probably now sixties oved times, but keeps

(01:02:52):
coming up to me the moment we keep thinking about
what happens after? What do you know? What now? What
keeps you going? Why do you keep waking happen. You know,
if you woke up this morning, you're already winning. You know.
So I always ask myself this question, right as soon
as I acknowledge that I have that on my wall. Right. So,
when I was cop in my kitchen, there's this massive,

(01:03:13):
unnecessarily huge neon signed in my kitchen that says, if
you woke up this morning, you're already winning. And I
asked myself, how much more winning do you want to
do today? You know, how many more successes, how many
more victories you want to claim for today? I have
another twelve fourteen hours to go. Let's go, you know.
And I asked myself that question. I started asking myself

(01:03:34):
that question. Probably I don't know, I'd say maybe less
nine years ago, nine or ten years ago. The fifteen
years before that, which was the early side of my career,
I experienced a lot of redundancy. You know. I went
down paths that turned out to be called the sacks,
you know, didn't really much to anywhere really, you know,

(01:03:55):
when I referenced those memories back, when I referenced those
called those sacks, those moments where I had to make
a U turn and then get back in the freeway, metaphorically,
I realized that wherever I was gonna go, it was
on purpose. To find the purpose, within the vision of
where you want to end up, and understanding that every

(01:04:15):
day you move a couple of yards forward, you gotta
make that conscious decision, conscious decision that you want to
get as close as possible to the goal if you're
gonna touchdown, right, So every yard counts. Maria knows this
better than anyone. She's a pictures fan. Yeah, but it's

(01:04:36):
important that if you're going to play this game and
you made a decision to where the jersey in the
morning that you finished wrong, that you run as fast,
that you play as hard, because like I said earlier,
we we have an expiration day. So if we're not
in terms, if we're not an acknowledge man, if we're
not in acceptance that it will end, then it's hard

(01:04:59):
to our actually keep going because you feel like you
have time. And only some of us who have experienced
death and how experienced the passing and the loss of
some really influential, I mean special people in our lives.
You know, I can tell you that when it happens,
it happens. It doesn't just like and then it happens,

(01:05:19):
and then we know this happened, and you got to
ask yourself, you know, who are you playing for now?
You know? And you gotta put yourself in the game.
I always say, you know, if you woke up this morning,
find the road, let's get a step on it, you know. Um,
So that's what keeps me going. I also, you know,

(01:05:41):
I can give you the obvious one, which is I
see my daughter now and I go, I will leave
you an empire. You shall have a planet before exactly
So um. The next thing that I would offer is
what if I made a difference? What if I changed everything?

(01:06:07):
What if I had the power to absolutely redefine how
we all look at one another, whether it's to content, radio,
a voice, a thought of conversation. What if this could
change everything? In that wonder? Kiss me swinging so hard

(01:06:27):
because I feel like I'm inches away from something iconic
all the time, and it's more real, the more real.
The more I talk to individuals like you and partner
with incredible people like like m R. I feel like
all those things become even more and more obtainable. Every
conversation is an inch to the what if this all
can really work? And that's why these conversations, That's that's

(01:06:50):
what keeps me showing up to essential voices. What if
this really could change people? What if you know regens
words and you know hit somebody it three at the
five yeard line before they decided to quit the Super Bowl?
What if? And we live in a very magical time,
So many things are more possible to people that never

(01:07:12):
thought would have resources to do so and realize the
only resources they needed was themselves. So as we close
down our showing, you guys have been incredibly generous for
your time. Thank you for indulging into such a vulnerable
place but also a place of inspiration. I know for
sure you've brought a lot of light to this episode.

(01:07:33):
You've brought a lot of inspiration and hope, but even
more critically needed understanding that you've provided some really beautiful
notions and a spirit to follow and inspiration in the
words that you've used and shared with us today. You know,
maybe we can talk two seconds about, you know, how
the community can support the work that you do and

(01:07:55):
how we can all show up for you as well
and let us know if there's anything that you like
to share it in who one final thought for for
our listeners, and we'll started with Rev Gen. Yeah, oh
that's so sweet. Um. You can follow my work at
Reverend Gen dot com. Um, and just wade a new book.
It's called to My Beloved Letters on Faith, Race, loss,

(01:08:16):
and Radical Hope. I hope it helps somebody. So, um,
it's short, it's short. I made sure it was short
so it's suitally readable. So you can check me out there.
You can check out the work of the awesome community.
I'm a part of Faith Matters Network at Faith Matters
Network dot org. And I think the word I want
to leave folks with is just like, in the midst

(01:08:38):
of all the chaos, confusion, everything going on, like the
greatest gift we can give ourselves sometimes it's just to
stop and breathe and remember that like the act of
breath at a time that literally steaks to steal our
breath both metaphorically and physically, is a miracle. So thank
you all for having me. This has been like the
best conversation. I had a hard week and I was like, Oh,

(01:09:00):
we're gonna talk about grief. This is gonna be rough,
and this is such a blessing and gift to me.
So thank you all thank you. You can find me
doing exactly this in a different way, living my purpose
and my kind of my calling, doing my show Better
Together with Miriam a New Knows. It's on Apple Podcasts
and Spotify wherever podcasts are, and having these really important conversations.

(01:09:24):
But also it's very health and wellness minded. I want
to help people get better in all areas of life.
It's my mission, it's my calling, and especially after what
we've gone through the last five years with dual brain
tumors and these health journeys, I'm really passionate about people's
health journeys and empowering them to take the reins and
to listen to their instincts and to ask for guidance

(01:09:47):
from above, whatever that above is for them, and to
teach them how to make that connection and and to
to use it and how to put that fear kind
of aside. And so every day I'm trying to find
I'm the best and help us all get better together.
And that's why I called it better Together, because we
are better together. There's always gonna be somebody who's going
to come in with something that you weren't thinking of,

(01:10:09):
or another way, another perspective or solution and we are
better together. So that's where you can find me at
Mariama Nuns on Instagram at Better Together with Maria whichever one.
I'm there every single day, beautiful, Thank you so much,
and I appreciate the time that you ask. It is
and uh to everyone listening out there, our love and

(01:10:30):
our prayers if you're experiencing anywhere near our conversation. Um
and you share the same heartbeat as our stories as well. Yeah,
you know, it feels odd to be smiling after sharing
such painful stories, but I can't stop thinking about both
media and Reverend Gen's mothers. They were clearly such incredible women,

(01:10:52):
and I'm honored that we got to hear their stories.
You know, this pandemic has left no one unscathed, and
though that's a lot of pain and grief stomach, it's
also a reminder that even in the darkest of moments,
we have the power to create joy within the worst
possible situations. Absolutely, absolutely, You're so right, and I'm still
left thinking of all the personal stories we all shared

(01:11:15):
and how we all share the awful experiences of losing
loved ones, be it to COVID or cancer. These beautiful
lives like Maria and Jan's moms are celebrated here on
Essential Voices today, and that that fills my heart with purpose,
because it is their memories and their souls that stay
with us forever until it's time for us to pass

(01:11:36):
as well. So and though our listeners couldn't see them,
I wish you all could have witnessed how much both
Money and Rep. Jan laid up with the chance to
share the happy memories they have with their moms. It
was a tangible reminder of how those we lose live
in the stories we tell. This one, without a doubt
be a conversation I listened back to moving Forward. It

(01:11:57):
was so full of hope, and there was something really
special about that conversation that we ended on about what
keeps us all going. You know, it fits that as
we talk about coping with what we've lost, we learned
to celebrate what we still have. Next week, we'll continue
having these Essential Conversations. We'll talk first with firefighter Gabriel
Pittis and then with the roundtable guests authorn of Breathing

(01:12:20):
Fire Jamie Low and Executive Director of the Forestry and
Fire Recruitment Program Brandon Smith. Essential Voices with Wilmer Val
Drama is produced by me M R. Raquel, Alison Shano,
and Kevin Retkowski, with production support from Associate producer Lillian Holman.
Executive producers Wilmer Val Drama, Adam Reynolds, Leo Clem and

(01:12:41):
Aaron Hilliard. This episode was edited by m. R. Raquel
and Sean Tracy and features original music by Will Risotti.
Special thanks to this week's Essential Voice, Sean Troy, and
to our thought leaders Reverend Jen Bailey and Mariama Nos.
Additional thanks to Victoria Ltardo, Kelsey Mayor and Puja nay Are.

(01:13:01):
We would also like to honor those that we've lost
and whose legacies we celebrate, including William Penn, Troy Sr,
Christine Bailey, Glendon Tyler Ashman, Lisa Manns, and Mega Biller.
This is a Clamor and w V Entertainment production in
partnership with I Heart Radios Michael Dura podcast Network. For

(01:13:22):
more podcasts from I Heart, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.