409.5: A Conversation with Richard Kind

Richard Kind didn't watch his episode, and it turns out to be a blessing of a life-time. We get lessons on auditioning, working with superstars, and life.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up? Motherfucker's Hi? How are you hi? Friends? How's
it going? Donald and I just played tennis? We did.
I'm hurting right now, are you sure? Yeah? I've been
where I'm on this real hard workout kick. You know
we lost weight. By the way, you look good. I
gotta get skinnier. I gotta get down a little bit more,

(00:21):
I know, But I want I want you to know
that I see that you're looking good. Good work. I'm
putting the work in. Like if I miss peloton, I'm
going to the I go all right, So look, I
go to this gym unbreakable performance. I gotta shout him
out because I've been going there for so long and
they have an outdoor facility right now that's really dope.
And I've been, you know, putting the work in, lifting weights.

(00:44):
You know, they're you know, like I said, they're really safe.
I've been boxing and stuff. You know. I can't stay
at home and motivate myself enough to work out every day. Yeah,
so the peloton is great. Cody. I love you, bro,
Thank you so much. Yet I don't know that Cody
listens yet, even if he done, even if he doesn't,

(01:04):
I love you, Bro. Thank you so much. Like for real, man,
Cody's gonna when it's all said and done, these Peloton
instructors are gonna be like Peloton famous man. That's real talk.
I really want to have it. I want to hang
out with Cody one day. That'd be great. I appreciate him.
I appreciate him, and I appreciate unbreakable performance. Thank you
guys for it. Thanks for helping me, you know, start

(01:26):
this journey again. I joke about it and I say,
you know, in my next comeback, after this comeback, I'll
get really ripped. Well, you look good and I know
that it's hard, and I'm at it. I'm working at
it too, and I gotta say that. So Donald is
that person. Maybe you listeners have a friend who cannot
play tennis for years and then come back and be
doing like trick shots behind his head, and everyone else

(01:49):
that's been taking lessons the whole time is like, oh Jesus,
you played really well today. Man, you're the most consistent
out of everyone. Want I want MVP. According to Chris
our teacher, Yeah, definitely, Chris crab shout out. Definitely were
MVP today. You won a lot of your games. I'm
just in my head. You know I have a a

(02:10):
sports tick. Is that? Is that what you call it? No,
I'm what you call it when you I have a
mind thing with my forehand. You saw like I was
running around my forehend to get to my backhand because
I'm just like in a fun my head about my forehand.
It's fucked up, but so I run around it. And bizarrely,
most people have more trouble with your backhand. My backhands consistent.

(02:31):
You need to work on your forehand. But I know, bro,
I know, but I'm telling you that I get into
a groove with it. You sound like country clubs country
clubs snobs. You need to focus on your forehead. But
I thought the fans would appreciate. I thought the fans
would appreciate that I'm talking about sports for a second.

(02:51):
I h you know, I just there's times where I
can hit it fine. I'm just in my head about it.
Blah blah blah. You gotta you just gotta work on
your forehand. You work on your forehand. You're golden, dude.
I know I'm gonna get good. That was fun. I
love tennis. Um, I gotta high. I gotta start off
the show. Just by telling everyone to watch the Bill,
the Eilish documentary. It's on Apple and it was amazing.

(03:13):
I haven't seen it. It's incredible. I don't want anything
about Billy Eilish other than you know her hit songs
and that she won all those Grammys. This documentarian follows her. R. J.
Cutler's his name. He did. He's a famous documentarian, and
he followed her for a year, the Key year where
she like, there's footage of them recording in her brothers

(03:35):
Phineas's bedroom all the way through to them winning all
the Grammys. And I have a question, but let me
just tell you that, you know some documentaries you feel like, oh,
this is just a fucking pr bullshit. She really gave
the whole family, gave this documentarian such access and and
it just is really special. I love documentaries and I

(03:56):
love music documentaries, and I'm telling you all to watch this.
And what an incredible family she has. Her parents are incredible,
her brothers incredible. I just I've been thinking about it
all day. It's one of those so I highly recommend it.
How did they know she was gonna blow up like that? Though? Like,
wouldn't they like? How would they bet this is the

(04:17):
crazy thing. How do you document something like that before
you know what's going to be? I think no, because
I'll answer that because there was an album before that
was getting her insane traction, not the one that not
the one that made her a global name and one
one hundred grammys, but before she was becoming like everywhere,

(04:40):
and the kids, you know, young kids were just downloading
or streaming her song incessantly. She had a lot of
her Instagram followers were climbing like this, and so they
obviously knew something was cooking. So and you know, and
you see her, you see her. She's doing small venues,
but they're selling out. And then but she's literally the
whole album is made on a laptop and a piano

(05:00):
mic in her brother's fucking tiny bedroom. She's talented also,
but he's you know, he's he won producer. He won
Producer of the Year that year. Thinking about this was
that's crazy about I love these stories, dude. They're they're
just a brother and sister. You know, they're just really
good friends. They love music. They've been playing music their
whole lives. Their parents got them into music. They're just
sitting in his bedroom writing songs and then this guy

(05:22):
wins Producer of the Year, beating out people in zillion
dollars studios with all the fancy musicians in the world.
And this young girl, she's seventeen years old when this
is being shot, and her voice, I had no idea.
I'm sorry, I don't know enough about Billy Eilish, but
her voice is incredible skills and he's the mastermind producer.
They write it together. I don't know. I sound like

(05:44):
I'm the press agent for this documentary, but I'm telling you,
and you can watch you. If you're listening and you
have teenagers, you can watch you with them. There's not
a single, you know, R rated thing in it, and
it's fucking awesome. And her parents are inspirational, like they're
so supportive, and it's just it's great. Speaking of tennis,
Richard Kind is an amazing tennis player, and this show,

(06:07):
well he's only really good at his serve, but he's here.
Should we count in and then bring him in? Guys,
we have Richard Kind. Let's beat it up, all right?
Donald count stories about show we made about a bunch
of doctor nurses said stories around here, yea around here,

(06:39):
all right, We're very thrilled. Everybody. You know, we've been
talking about Richard Kind. Let's bring him in. We we
love Richard Kind, and we finally got him. What are
you laughing about, Daniel? Just what? I'm sorry the message
of the Joels. I'm sorry. I know he said it
to me. I just I'm sorry. Richard is concerned his
curse or on his computer will work. Yes, as they

(07:01):
switched over to his tablet, so he should be good.
We can let him. I've been on the phone with
Richard while you guys were doing your interest to be amazing.
I was wondering what all the faces were for. You
were like so nervous. I just assume she was watching
rebels on the other team. My god, Richard Kind. Everybody
living fucking legend looking good too, guys, Richard. That's Joel

(07:33):
and Daniel, our producers. How are you, Richard Kind. I'm
gonna tell you. We've been doing this podcast and the
mantra of everyone is like, fuck all those other people,
forget that Bill Lawrence, bring me Richard Kind. Let me
tell you something. My friend Rick Builder and his son Jeff. Yeah,

(07:55):
so you know there's a podcast about Scrubs and you
call them and tell them you want to be on
I go. They'll call. If I call, that's me me,
and that's me wanting attention. I said, they will call.

(08:17):
You're so funny, Richard. I guess that's all. Let me
tell you. I'm very happy and thrilled to be on this.
But it's so nice to see you guys. It's good
to see you too. I love you, guys. I love
you too. We've played We played golf together, Richard and
I for a couple of holes. Actually, you're a very
good golfer. You I am not. You take your time.

(08:40):
I used to be a very good golfer. I used
to be very smart. There are lots of things that
have dissipated over the years. But wait, Richard, are you
genuinely good at tennis? Because in this episode your serve
is ridiculously on fire? In what episode? Um, we are
talking about the episode of Scrubs that we're talking about.

(09:03):
Did you watch it by any chance? I haven't seen Scrubs.
I haven't seen years. Oh great, it's a great show. Well,
don't worry. We're talking about are you. Are you on
a show right now? You do a show right now? Yes,
I am the costco of acting, and I come see

(09:31):
and if I'm honest, show you get well paid, right yeah,
well yeah, but it's a guest on the show. Oh
we throw the Oh you're so bud, You're wonderful. Here
are a couple of quarters, like a little monkey with
a cop Oh my god. Well, Richard, what I'm saying
is that you were on an episode of You're on

(09:51):
multiple but the one we were going to focus on today.
Your your character hurt his Do you remember this? Your character?
And you think Donald fucked up your shoulder and and
but you have in the episode we cut to you
serving and it's so good that you throw it hits
Johnny c McGinley, and it throws him against the back wall.
Do you remember That's when he goes, I sort of do.

(10:12):
I was a good tennis player, but that was high school,
and uh, well, I wasn't a good What I had
was one shot because I was a fat kid, and
the ball would come to me and I would hit
a foss court shot that was pinpoint in the corner
so that the guy couldn't return it and I wouldn't

(10:32):
have to run with every point. That way, That's what
I was good at the net. But if yeah, I
really had to reach, I wasn't so agile, but I
was okay at that. Donald does these trick shots we play.
We just played today actually, and he does these. He
didn't do any today, Donald, but he does these things
where I didn't. I don't even know what kind of

(10:53):
spin it is. He like loops around it like it's
a lacrosse stick, and the ball you just do not.
You have no fucking chance to touch him. Yes, it's
top spin. It's it is top spin. And Donald, you
hit the ball, the golf ball very far, just not
straight right, just not straight. You're putting spin on. You
hit down to the bottom and you turn it over.

(11:14):
But God only knows where it's going to be. Because
if you come over it that I know where it's good.
If I come over it, I know where it's going.
But I don't want it to go that way because
you don't want to do. You know that it's gonna
go into the other fairway, right, but a long way
into the other fairway. But you're strong, you have a
good a decent you know, mobility and everything. But you've
gotten better, Donald, haven't you since you played Richard? Probably

(11:37):
I've never played him in golf, but I've played a
few holes with him, right improved play. Now, I haven't
played in a couple of weeks. I played once, Yeah,
I played once. Lessons. Are you thinking I was? I
was for a while. I was, you know, I was
messing with Rondel Barrio Golf Tech. This dude, David uh Day.

(12:00):
Even Frank's at Calabasas Country Club. Like, I've gone to
a lot of people to work on my swing. The
loss I've gotten. I shot a seventy one at Encino Balboa.
I've shot a seventy at at Wood like a courses.
Those are easy courses. Oh, no doubt, I'm I'm just
gonna say one. It doesn't matter if you can shoot

(12:24):
a seventy one, seventy whatever. If you can shoot below
seventy eight, you're a good golfer. Well, I the best
I've played at a harder course like Rustic Canyon. I
shot a eighty one at Rustic Yeah yeah, yeah, Oh
you'll kill me, You'll kill me. I had children. That'll
kill your game. I moved to New York and New

(12:46):
York New York kills your game. That'll kill your game.
It was your game. I've been in New York for
over ten years. You can't go play. But one of
the reasons I moved from Los Angeles was because I
became addicted to the game and the club that I
play at, because you just go there and you sit,
you play, you have a drink or anything like that.

(13:07):
And I would get home to my kids and I
I'm falling asleep, like trying to play with them. And
then and I would literally, this is horrible because I
love to act. But I would say, if you can't
get me the audition before like eleven thirty, then I

(13:27):
can't make it, or until after three or four, because
that's when I was playing golf. So I would give up.
What is in essence jobs, I got news for you.
Now that we're on and everybody's going to hear you
asked me, can we switch this time from one o'clock
when we take it to two o'clock. Well, if I

(13:48):
take it at two o'clock, that means I got out
to the club very late, and I want to go
play golf. After this, I said, I said, I compromise,
and I'll give them one third. Well, thank you for
we appreciate that. I know I know how I'm kidding.
I'm not. No, you're not You're not kidding, Donald, Donald,

(14:08):
I know how important it is. I know how important
it is. And yeah, and it's it's still not the
Savings time yet. If it were, and I could play
on eight eight thirty because something goes down now at six.
All right, So will Richard, we gotta ask you, because
we always ask people when they come on. We got
to go back to the beginning. Let's start at the
very beginning, a very very good place test start. Um,

(14:33):
how did you you? You don't have to go like that,
give us the novel version, but give us the cliff notes?
How did you get started in in being a working,
successful actor? Because you've been in nine zillion things. Um,
very fancy filmmakers and very fancy showrunners love you and
continue to cast you. And you have a career that
actors would dream of because you've had such longevity. I

(14:58):
will tell you I'm going to be humble and bragging
at the same time. I am the luckiest man in
show business because when I was a kid, Archie Bunker
and Adam West were two of the biggest stars and
heroes of who I wanted to be Oh my god,

(15:19):
Carol O'Connor was magnificent, not just as Archie Bunker, but
I knew his stuff before, and he got pigeonholed into
being Archie Bunker, one of the most magnificent actors who
would never guess it. Adam West certainly was only Batman,
and it was my goal as an actor to not

(15:40):
be them or not have their career. I wanted to
be in as many things as I possibly could, in everything.
I mean, I know, you've done Broadway. I've done lots
of shows on Broadway, and before the pandemic would be
in a show a year somewhere. You know, nobody sees it,
you know, because it's a limited audience, but it's theater.

(16:03):
So I wanted to be in as many things as
I could. And when I was on Spin City, everybody
was going, Oh, you're gonna be the breakout character. You'll
be the breakout character. And I didn't have any publicity.
I didn't want. I did not want to be known
as Paul Lasseter, so I didn't do a lot of
publicity or anything. And I know this sounds crazy. I

(16:24):
have the career that I wanted. I really do. I
get to do. I've done opera, I do radio, I do,
I do sitcoms. I do I'm gonna be and I'm
doing a movie coming up in New Mexico where it
is not funny at all and I'm playing a gangster.
It's fantastic. Yeah. The only thing is that with more

(16:49):
fame comes picking of roles. I could pick or choose roles.
I'll get offered more roles or at least get to
audition for more roles, because being a star makes a
project that much more uh easy to finance. And I'm
not exactly a star. I mean, people don't say, oh,

(17:10):
a Richard Kine movie, I gotta go. You know, they
may say while they're watching it, oh I like that guy,
but they will not run out of their house to
go see. But you're saying, but you're saying, you you
there was a fork in the road and you chose
that path. I wish I could say it was an
absolute fork in the road. It was not. I was

(17:31):
a realization. Well no, I mean, I mean, just for example,
you could know, for example, you're on Spin City, you
saying I chose not to do publicity. You could have
milked the fuck out of that. Well, I guess I
could have. I don't. I would not have been a star.
I might have had more fame. It's just I did
not want to be pigeonholed into that role. But but
so so don't don't think I could. But also look

(17:54):
at who you're talking to. I will not be the
lead of anything of any of any movie and maybe
even TV show. And I can be a leader in
a play because the economic consequences of a play aren't
as strong as a movie or a TV show. But
you got to get a good looking guy. You got
to get somebody who is I don't want to say

(18:15):
middle of the road, but but as somebody who is
appealing that you want to turn tune into. I'm a
satellite character, always proud to be a satellite character. You
don't know who you are. You sound like a producer,
and I'm gonna be when you when you talk like that.
But I tend to agree with you, and I tend
to agree with you as of late late in my life,

(18:37):
as of recently, as of actually this morning I was
watching I was watching WandaVision right, and everybody knows this
about me. I want to be in Star Wars. I
want to be in Marvel. I even think Star Wars
and Marvel know I want to be in that. So
I've said, I's right, I'm pretty sure. But so I've

(18:58):
aspired right in my whole acting career to be in
those movies now Here's a Thing, or in those TV
shows now Here's the thing. What happens? If I get it?
Then what do I aspire to be after that? You
know what I mean? In other words, be careful of
what comes true, because because then then well you're wrong. Okay,

(19:21):
you're wrong. Okay. When I was a kid, I had
three dreams. Now, most kids want to be like Mick
Jagger or or or play center field for the Yankees
or something. Mine was. I wanted to be in a
Stanley Kubrick movie, a Woody Allen movie, and an original
Stephen soheime how Prince musical Stanley Kubrick's dead Woody Allen

(19:46):
wasn't hiring me, and I love this for a Stephen
someheime how Prince musical and got it and I was
the lad God, I was the lead. It was the
dream of a lifetime. And I sing but not well
enough to be in a Sondheim musical. But he likes
actors better than singers, and I sang well enough to

(20:07):
do his stuff. It's unbelievable. And Sondheim and Prince a
split in nineteen eighty two after Merrily We Roll Along,
and Harold Prince didn't didn't direct any of his plays anymore.
They haven't got get back together. And I did it.
And this was over ten years ago, and I continue

(20:27):
to work. I work so much that I did a
Woody Allen movie which I'm really proud of. It's not
a huge, great part, but I was part of it.
I almost was with Zach. I know you were. I
have to admit, with all due respect to the gentleman
who got the role, I was hoping that it was
going to be you. Richard was up for the part

(20:49):
of in Bullets over Broadway. Because Richard, I have to say,
and I've said this on the podcast many times, I
know what you're saying about being a satellite character. I'm
one of those people when I see your face, and
you work a lot, so I see your face all
the time. I a giant smile comes across my face.
If I had if I was not in this business
at all and just a fan of acting, I would

(21:13):
I would just be I would just be a giant
fan of yours. I just think that you are so
talented and so funny. I know that you do drama
as well. But when I just see you and you
could say in this and Scrubs, you say one sentence
and I just started giggling. I'm for a bottle. Yeah

(21:33):
there's I saw you in the show that I've spoken
about here before. UM called the other the other two?
Is that? Are you on that? Oh? You don't even remember?
You do so many shows. You don't remember. You're you're
somebody's agent. Uh. And it was a small show, Richard.
I love the show. I'm sure they're gonna make it.
I think it'll be back. It's back, I think without me,

(21:58):
I sort of a one joke could sit and it
had run its course. So I don't blame you. My
point is this, but this morning, when watching WandaVision, I
was like, why am I so worried about being on
all of this. I'm a working actor. I have so
many credits behind me. Now, maybe just focus on what

(22:19):
I'm good at and if it comes, it comes, You
know what I mean? I enjoy being a fan of
it too. You know, so maybe just enjoy the fandom
and you are right. But first of all, you're really good,
or you wouldn't have the career you have. Right. The
second thing is, maybe we're not always great, but we're

(22:42):
never bad anymore because we've been around. You've done how
many episodes of Scrubs did you do? Over one hundred
and something? And if you're not by now, yeah, if
you don't know how to work a camera, if you
don't know how to get the tone of a scene
or parse a script and deliver what the writer wants,

(23:05):
then then when you're not thinking right, I'm an idiot.
And if that's the you are, I'm saying you're absolutely right.
So you can get into into something and you've got
a career that a backlog of stuff that people can say, Oh,
he's more than justice. And Mike, my friend Michael Boltman,
you know Michael Boatman. He he says, we are at

(23:28):
the point in our career of what you guys are
certainly that we will always be better than good. We
will always deliver. There might be some who will be great,
and there might or will it will be better. There
might be certain roles that we will be great in
and we were not able to achieve greatness, but we

(23:49):
will always deliver because we're good, which is good. It's
not that we were for some people are just blessed.
Uh you know something, well, you know people with a
smoldering lust and sexuality. I disagree. I disagree, however, but

(24:10):
those are gifts somehow. But we have amassed a talent
and a and a credibility and and a facility of
how to do our job, and we'll just be fine.
Do you still have the hunger Richard? Like when you
when you when someone says we want you to read
and and and uh, and you get and you get
the script and it's a really good part. Do you

(24:33):
do you find yourself going, oh shit, I want to
work on this one. I really want this all right.
I got a couple of answers to you. Yes, I do.
And it's the silliest thing that makes me jump up
and down because because I was. I actually, as of
this time, I was offered something yesterday that was more
money than I've ever made in my life. Wow, congratulating

(24:56):
more money than ever. I don't make that much, but
this was more money and I turned it down because
two weeks in a Quarantine and then being on the
set of a very good script, but I was Parsley.
I was the the overpaid extra. I had one decent

(25:18):
scene that was maybe a page and a half through pages.
Otherwise I'm just part of dinner family where I have
one line and you got to be away from your
family for that, and I would I would kill myself
that that would really make me unhappy. It would have
made me unhappy. Forgive me in Bullets over Broadway, because
that was I didn't have a song and the part

(25:40):
was really chopped down from what it was in the movie,
and I was it was although I haven't the love
the production, Well, didn't I give him the song at
the end of Banana Song? No, that banana song was
started by somebody else, but um. And also the thing
with that contract was I didn't know if if you
were you get anything, you would have been no as

(26:00):
a year, everyone, no matter who you were, you had
to sign up for a year. And I was like,
what a year? And I was going to I was
going to pass on it because I was but my
friend was like, bro, like, what are you talking about.
You're not gonna pass on starring in a woody Allen
Broadway Musical and Susan Stroman and you were challenged every night. Yeah,

(26:25):
it was very hard. We truly challenged every night. You know.
It's I was thinking about this last night. Um, this
is I guess a bit of a non sequitor, but
I was thinking about just in terms of the theater,
and I was thinking, you know, you know, most of
our listeners aren't in the entertainment industry, Richard. So I
sometimes just explained that in the theater world, in the
New York theater world, Uh, really, whether the show is

(26:47):
successful or not comes down to the review of the
New York Times. It used to. It doesn't anymore, but
it used to. Okay, well, all I'll tell you is
book Bullets over Broadway. It did. I gotta tell you
that Bulltimo was supposed to run. Mike contract was for
a year. And and Richard, I'm sure you've been through
this in Donald's Done Theater too. But you you're playing
to preview houses, meaning the critics aren't allowed to come

(27:09):
yet you're working out the kinks. We're playing a sold
out houses in a giant theater. It's like a twenty
seven theater sold out that we have to stop the
show because they're laughing so hard. We have to. There
was one moment they would give it for Nick, for
the late great Nick Cordero. They would give a standing
ovation in the middle of the show for a dance number.
We were on fire. We open that night the night

(27:33):
you open it, like midnight. The reviews came out The Times,
didn't destroy it, but was met and the next night
it was like Golfer's claps. Everyone everyone, this is what's
so fucked up about it. Everyone coming into that theater
now went, oh, this isn't that good because Brent Browley

(27:54):
didn't love it, And now we're gonna watch it differently,
and you can. If you're in the play, you're like,
what the fuck happened? We haven't changed anything. You're right,
But they had just been conditioned that this is not good. Yeah,
it's horrible. In fact, what it is, what it really is,
is a review could make or break the success of
a play. But now a review can make or break

(28:18):
the audience's attitude towards a play. Yes, and that that's horrible.
It's because I never I love the theater. It's my
favorite thing in the world. And I and I and
I get so much joy out of it. I never
read a review before I go because I want to
experience the play anew. Of course, if you're into the
theater community, you hear the buzz of oh, everyone's talking

(28:40):
about this show. But I the last thing I want
is someone telling me, oh, this scene sucks. It's funny.
There was one big number. There was a hot dog number,
if you recall, and it was so silly. They were
dancing and hot dogs. It was all. It was just
a giant dick joke for but it was hilarious, and
the audience would be you could look and you'd see
them holding their bellies, and that next and that next night,
it was like, that's just terrible, it's terrible. Well, they

(29:03):
certainly had it out for Woody yea. But what's unusual
is they had it out for Strow and that's she
doesn't deserve that. Yeah, I think that Susan Stroman um,
you know if for those of you who not in
the Nose is very, very a list a huge musical
theater director in New York, and she her first giant hit.

(29:25):
I believe Richard was the producers, right, was the producers? Yeah? Yeah,
And it almost feel like there was animosity towards her, like,
how dare you be that successful? Absolutely? Yeah? And she
works the hardest. You've never met anybody so loyal. She
does everything from ballet to the opera, to UH to
the musicals. She even did the movie of the Producers,

(29:47):
which did deserve the dreadful reviews it got. However, she
is great. You did the Producers, didn't you? I did?
I'm Broadway and at the Hollywood. Wow. I have a question,
what is this? What is this rule? Though? Now? I
don't like this is the one thing I do not

(30:07):
like about Broadway? If you dare you? How dare you?
The only thing way you're talking about? Yes, these people
need These people need our support right now, not any criticism.
This is the only thing when it comes to Tony Awards.
How comes somebody like let's say, let's say Zach did
Bullets over Broadway and he wins the Tony for Bullets

(30:28):
over Broadway, then leaves. Then somebody else comes in it
does Bullets over Broadways win? Why can't that person win?
If and and so what if they Zach won? His
ego isn't going to be heard If that person wins.
If that person gets nominated them is even better. There
is talk, Richard, I at least heard, but you might

(30:50):
know of them creating a category for best replacement, right.
I believe that should be done. However, every once in
a while, there is simply a role that just can't beat, right,
Like if if Fiddler around the Roof is going to
go on how have You? Is always going to win,
or or Max beiala stock and the producers, they're always

(31:10):
going to win because it's the role. Right. Also, sometimes, Richard,
what you're saying is true that and with no disrespect
to the person that originated the role, someone might come
in and be like revelatory. Absolutely. And I was talking
about this the other day. Um the somebody said his
most exciting uh theater experiences was seeing Richard Burton do

(31:34):
the original cast of Equis. I said, Richard Burton did
not create the role, but he did go into it.
And my guess is he was better than the original
guy because he was Richard Burton. Yeah. So yeah, but
I think you are correct. I think I don't think
it's a bad thing. You shouldn't take away from the

(31:54):
five original nominees because putting up a show sometimes what
they do helps create the character is so good. But
once the characters established, you are right a but you
can with it for a revival, that's the only happen. Yeah,
but then it has to next talk about t D.

(32:17):
I don't, but you, guys, I like the revival also
because it still has to go through the same work
that the original did. You gotta start a small theater,
then it has to get you a bigger theater. Then
that's I like that. I do like I could talk.
By the way, we've decided this this episode is called
the Conversation with Richard Kind because that's what it is.
Everybody and I could talk to you about so many things.
You're so knowledgeable about a lot of things. I know

(32:39):
you have you wait one thing that I want to
get to Wait. Wait. This is called wait, Richard pause,
This is called a tease. We're gonna be right back
after this break. But I have something to say. I know,
but I'm gotten choosing the audience. I'm doing a drive
by of their proverbial genitalia and we'll be right back

(33:04):
and we're back, Richard, go ahead. What were you saying,
Richard Kind? Well, I'm fall because I just had a
huge meal and now after that. Pay geez, Louise, I hope,
I hope you remember what you were going to say. Okay,
what I wanted to say. I mean you talked about
do I get excited about a script or or excited

(33:25):
about a part? Yes, I do, I certainly do. Or
you pray that you have an opportunity to play that part.
I'm gonna say something that that might be interesting to
you guys. Or I'm one of the idiots that likes auditioning.
Really why what a couple of reasons. Number one, as

(33:48):
an actor, I like to play all different kinds of roles.
I may not be I may not be hired, but
for ten minutes, I got to play that role. And
I can't do it alone in the bathroom. I'm not
going to invite friends over and go, hey, listen to me,
do this. Listen to me do Willie Lowman, because you know,
just here, I'll give you a sandwich. And although I

(34:10):
would come to see you do someday, I'd love to
do it. But but but the thing is, you need
an actro needs an audience, and even if it's a
kid with a camera, you're still performing. So I happen
to appreciate it. The other thing is is um, I

(34:31):
like being nervous. I like the jitters of like an
opening night. That's fun for me. I know I'm not
going to die. I know that my life is not
on the line. I know nothing's going to happen to
my kids, but I get nervous, like being on a
roller coaster can be fun. And so you're going in

(34:52):
front of important people. You make it a job. This
could be the job that makes you a huge amount
of money, brings fame, and you might be Matt Terry
in friends. You don't know, so who knows what this
audition is going to bring or that the person that
you're auditioning for may become a good friend, whatever it is.
But you're nervous. Things around the line. Yeah, a good

(35:14):
way to live. I never heard a bet like that,
but I heard the nervous. I've heard the nervous part
put like that. I've never heard the actors need to perform.
Look at it as a room to perform. I do. Oh,
it's an opportunity, such an amazing and that's that's such
a golf analogy too. That's such a golf analogy, dude.
But it's an opportunity. Here's here's another crazy thing that

(35:37):
if I'm teaching, which I don't do a lot of
but I have, when you go in for an audition,
you are going, oh, dear God, let me get this role. Please,
let me be good, Please let me be great. I
don't go in that way. I go in and I
see six people who all want to make Larry David money.

(35:57):
They all want the successive side field. They all want
the success of curb your enthusiasm. That's what they want.
They want money, they want success. They don't care whether
I get the role. They want money. And I go
in saying, if and you have to believe this, you
have to believe you're the right actor for the role.
But if I, if I believe that, which a lot

(36:18):
of times I do, I can do this. I go
in with the mindset of, guys, I'm going to help
you make a lot of money. You better if when
you cast me, you better cast around me as good
as me, because I'll help you make money. I'm going

(36:41):
to help make this thing great. Wow, don't worry, I
got your back talk. But most people go in going, oh,
I gotta get this, Oh, I gotta get this role.
If you go in with the with the feeling of
I'm going to help you make the success. That takes
all the pressure off of you. Yeah, Richard, I love that.
And I have to say from when I'm directing. I

(37:03):
learned a lot about auditioning when I was directing, because
you sit you think that being on the other side
of the table is fun. It's fun for about thirty
five minutes, and then it's really grueling and stressful because
all you're thinking is, fuck, we're not going to find
this guy or this gal. So what I always say
to actors is you need to I mean, you're just
brilliant and I'm gonna steal it. But I also say

(37:27):
they're you don't know this. They're rooting for you. They want,
they're dying for you to be good. If you're great,
they're done great. If you're great, they're gonna make money
if you're good, and all want to be good for yourself.
Don't guess they're they're saying, Dear God, give me somebody
who's good. I agree with you. Now I'm gonna bring

(37:47):
up something that you're gonna hate, but you know that
I'm gonna bring it up. When you were doing going
my way in style. I auditioned for the bank or
at the beginning, and I did not have and I
only went on tape and I did not have. I
remember not being not feeling good about it. I remember it,

(38:09):
and I, of course you care whether or not to
get it. I think I requested you come in for it. Okay,
good being what I wanted to do. Let's not get
the role I wanted to do. I wanted to impress Zack.
Oh my god, that's what I wanted to do. Now,
the guy you hired happened to be a friend of mine,

(38:30):
and he's great. Yeah, it's wonderful. Uh And I you
your mind not getting a role? Oh yeah, yeah, it happens.
But that that was my mindset, and it could have
gotten in my way of doing a good job. Well,
I got to say that. What I think is, I
recall I asked you to come in because I literally

(38:50):
when I when I'm casting something ill and it's a
particularly a funny part, I'm like, well, who are the
funny people that I like working with? I agree, I agree,
and you're at the top of that list. Um, and uh,
but yeah, I I I I I really like and
I'm sure there's a lot of actors listening. Who who who?
This is? This is really useful advice. The audition process.

(39:13):
We've all been groomed our whole lives to be like
and we do it. Oh shit, I'm nervous. Oh shit,
come on, please, come on, God, come on, Universe, give this.
But it really comes down to not walking in that
room terrified, walking in that room with your shoulders back going. Guys,
let me let me help you. I'm here to do this.
Let me help you. I'm not necessarily saying that you
can't say no, no performance it. Let's just be clear,

(39:35):
just through the performance. Yes, yes, actors, please don't walk
in the room and say you're looking. I'm here. You
don't say it out loud, you go, you don't say hey, fuckers,
you better cast as well. Let's this is a good
segue into can you tell us about Spince your audition
for Spin City and and and and Bill and how

(39:56):
all that went? I got a great story this This
will take about five minutes. Great story you can you
can take an hour. Go ahead, tea time. He's got
a tea time. Yes, but we're talking about me, so
I guess I have a lot only I only play
eight homes if I can keep talking about me, tell

(40:17):
me how good I am. Richard Richard, Richard only as
a tea time, if we talk about things unrelated to him,
all right, So, h Gary David Goldberg had a show
called Champs. It was about it was sort of like
that Champions to Sason, it was it was sort of
based on his life. It was one coach and five

(40:39):
guys who were best friends, of which Gary does have
that life. He had his best friends who were a
basketball team from when he was in high school. So
he made a sitcom about that club, Champs, and I
wanted to read for him, and Gary said, he's not right.
He goes, I know Richard kind, I know him from

(41:00):
man about He's not right for it, and I'm going
I just let me read. He would not see me.
That show went the way of most shows, like one season.
Then he had Spin City and he didn't want to
see me, and we called the casting director, and the

(41:24):
casting director spoke to Bill Lawrence and Bill wanted to
see me, and I said, let me go in and
see the casting director first so that I can practice
and see it because Gary doesn't want to see me.
And Gary says, Oh, I know. I know Richard Kind
from Man About You, and he's great. He's great, He's
not right for the role. Gary didn't want to see me.

(41:45):
Bill did. I had a handle on this part. The
only thing that would have not gone it for me
is because I was too tall from Michael J. Fox,
or I might have been too Jewish ethnic New York
City for whatever. But otherwise, if they called me back,
the role is mine. So I wanted to go into

(42:07):
the casting director and then I went into uh the
to read for Bill and for Gary, and indeed I
was called back, and I literally said to myself, if
they called me back, this role is mine. Okay, I
have to go in to meet with Michael. Cut back

(42:28):
years before when I was at Second City, Michael J.
Fox came to Second City was doing the movie Satisfaction.
Let me just for those that don't For those that
don't know, Second Cities an improv group. Go ahead, right
and H and I was part of the company, and
whenever somebody famous was in the audience, we would invite
them to improvise with us, which we did with Michael.

(42:50):
So Michael and Robin Duke are doing a scene. There
was obviously he was the son, she was the mother.
It's obvious. If I opened the door and I say, honey,
i'm home, I'm the father and I belong there. So
I come into the scene with honey, I'm home. And
Michael bounded one, two, three and jumped into like this,

(43:20):
I mean, off the floor into my arms. Now a
couple of things. I'm strong, but I'm not that strong.
Michael J. Fox is so light that anybody's strong. And
he clumped on to me like David Letterman did with

(43:41):
self pro Do you remember when he did that? Two?
And Michael did that and he hung on like that
when I tell you, and you've got to understand how
long time is. There was a forty five second last

(44:03):
and it wasn't that. It was that. It was Michael
was so athletic and agile and knew the laugh and
he just hung on and I walked around with him.
I'm telling you, like a moudience, like a monkey. Yeah,
they were dying. It is a laugh. I will always
remember it in my head. It's like a movie. I

(44:26):
can see what it looks like. Memorable. Before I went
into the audition. Cut to today, okay, to the audition
for Spin City and sometimes I don't have a therapist anymore,
but at the time I had a therapist, and it
was a good luck thing that I go and see
my therapist sometime before I had the audition, and it
would loosen me up, it would make me feel alive

(44:48):
or whatever. So I go in and I say, I
tell him the story. And I say, should I bring
it up? And my therapist goes, absolutely, if it was
that memorable, absolutely bring it up. I go in, I
meet Michael, and I say, I've got to tell you.
You may not we've met before. I was on stage

(45:09):
at Second City and we did this, and this is
what Michael said, and he's given me permission to tell
the story. He goes, I'm sorry, I don't remember it
because I was so drunken high during that point in
my life. I don't even remember doing Satisfaction. Why God,

(45:29):
he did not remember being at Second City, he didn't
remember being in Chicago. He had no memory of really
doing the movie. Isn't that amazing? Oh my god, I know,
isn't that isn't that sessing one of the biggest It's
crazy that one of the biggest moments in your life,
one of the moments that ye a memorable left. He

(45:51):
has no clue, no clue. He has no memory of
leaping on, leaping onto one of the improv comedians. He
has no memory of leaping on, holding on, keeping on. However,
this is something I then remember about the audition. This
is something I clearly remember, is I had a They
wrote a Bill Lawrence. As you know, as everybody who's listening,

(46:16):
Bill Lawrence is a fucking genius. He works very hard
at being a genius, and sometimes he works to the
last minute at being a genius. But nonetheless he is
a genius at what he has chosen to do. Yes,
he's he makes things accessible, funny, weird, and let me

(46:38):
get to that a little later. But I remember doing
the scene and he wrote such a brilliant funny line.
Because he was a great writer. Gary was a great
show runner. Not necessarily he was a great captain. He
was not necessarily as great a writer as some of
the product that he put out. But when you have
a genius like Bill Lawrence, you can get it. And

(47:02):
Gary was able to teach things to build and generate
things that build not only learn, but cultivated and made
blossom even more. But that I had one hilariously funny
line that I read and Michael J. Fox took. I
wonder if I can do it. I don't think I'm
met late anymore. And this chair's gonna gonna roll. He

(47:24):
jumped in the air like this and just landed. He
jumped in the air with laughter and landed on the chair.
He laughed that hard at my delivery. And I have
to admit I walked out of there going the part
is mine, Yeah, part, It's mine. We we we. Donald

(47:44):
and I have spoken about his timing, uh, Michael J. Fox.
I mean I grew up watching family ties and I
didn't know how to analyze comedy or or anything about
it at a young age. But I just knew that
he was doing something unique. Is his timing that was
so special. And Bill has said to us that no one,

(48:06):
no one could hold the pause and wait for the
laugh better than Mike Fox. He he just knew. It's
like you watch those teenage girls playing double Dutch and
how they know just when to go in. Like Michael J.
Fox was just so skilled at just the right amount
of pause right he was. I'm gonna tell you. I'll
tell you two things. Number One, I heard Carl Reiner,

(48:27):
interviewed by Bob Costas and Carl Reyner said sitcoms were
written by Jews to be acted by non Jews, and
Michael J. Fox has the rhythm of a Borsbolt comedian.
Michael great, great talent. He has that rhythm. And now

(49:04):
I'm going to tell you something else. This is sour
grapes a little bit. Michael could hold for the for that,
he could take a line and make it three lines,
and the camera would always be on him because he's
Michael J. Fox and he's the star of the show.
If we tried to do it, Gary would edit it

(49:25):
and it would all be compressed because we're not the star,
and you just gotta understand you're not the star. But
I would, well, maybe I couldn't do what he did because,
quite honestly, what he did something I've done this with Michael,
and I've done this with Christopher Walkin. I have acted
with them, and as they're talking, in my head, I'm going, really,

(49:50):
that's how you're going to deliver the line? Really you,
that's your choice. That's what you want to say and
how you want to say. All right, that's im that's
going on in my head. And I would do that
with Michael And I was lucky enough to act with
Christopher Walking and I see them on screen and it

(50:11):
takes your breath away. They know what they're doing. Yeah, yeah,
they're they're magnetic. And Michael okay, and here's something different.
I was also lucky enough to do a series with
Carol Burnett. And there was a difference between the expertise
of Carol Burnett and Michael J. Fox, who are of

(50:31):
course the greatest who have ever taken the screen on TV.
Michael J. Fox played for the camera but needed the
audience to get his timing, to know, to hear, to
get the whole milieu of the comedy. Otherwise it's a
straight out drama, you know, you deliver it seriously. But

(50:53):
he was able to play that last. Carol Burnett played
to the back of the house, but knew that the
camera was capturing her. She needed the audience. That's who
she really played too, And the camera caught her right.
And that was the difference I as an actor and
more like and more like Michael J. Fox, I have

(51:15):
a hard time with and and and it's and it's
worked for me, and it's worked against me. It's worked
against me to the point where I've been fired before
because I was playing for I needed the audience and
I needed the timing for it to work. But then
I've also been on shows. I've also I've been on
a sitcom net lasted for five seasons, and I had

(51:39):
an actress tell me one day, she was like, you know,
I thought you were gonna blow it until the audience
got in, and then you turned it into something different.
I can't do it without the audience if you're not
gonna laugh, if you're not gonna give me the rhythm.
And I think that's what's great about Bill, because Bill
at the audition for Scrubs would give you the laugh.

(52:00):
He helped you create the rhythm in the audition. You
know what I mean? And so I have I have,
I know exactly what you're talking about. I have. I
have a hard time. I appreciate people that are more
like Bill because of that, Bill and Mike a perfet
for each other. If that's yes, they are, I call
it you ride the laugh, Yeah right. It gives you
a breath, It gives you a way to get to

(52:21):
the next sentence or or though. And as Michael could do,
he could either hold it or in my situation and
you make a face. Yeah, you're riding the laugh. I
feel like about to say something, but but you're holding
for the laughs. Yeah. I feel like Michael J. Fox
would do this thing where he would almost start to
like nod like he was he was, he was nodding

(52:43):
along with the laugh and the audience was was him.
They were in and I forgot what the I forgot
what the example Bill told us was. It was something
like shaven, a haircut, two bits or whatever it was,
but the audience knew what the two bits of it
all was. Absolutely, that's the easiest thing. And and Michael
Fox would would would just kind of nod with them,
let them laugh, let them get ahead of it. Then

(53:06):
then just pause even longer so they're like, when is
he gonna do it? What is he gonna do it?
And then just say and then he would just say
it and they would guffaw. Absolutely, And that is a
very that is a comforting thing, and the audience is
relieved that they were delivered by such a waiter. It's

(53:27):
it's the it is the greatest. It's you love them,
do you love I gotta tell you one other thing.
A lot of times because of Michael's impairment, which we
didn't even know about until the last year. But Michael
couldn't have a long evening on Friday nights taping in
front of the audience. So in order to make it shorter,

(53:50):
all of the extraneous that's the wrong word. All of
the supporting cast, they had scenes. We would do their
scenes and they were in swing sets in the back,
so they were not in front of the audience. They
would have just been shown on TV, just paused there
for the audience. Swing sets or sets that if you're
doing a sitcom, aren't right in front of the audience there.

(54:10):
They may be out of out of the audience's view.
Right right, the audience is seeing it live, but not
with their they're seeing it live on a screen, but
but not in front. Most of Michael's stuff was done
in front of an audience, even if it was on
a swing set, because that's what Michael wanted so in
order to get and I was in either the B

(54:32):
or sometimes I was usually a C story that was
all about me, but just took a few pages. But
I did not get the audience, so I didn't hear
that laugh. And I couldn't write it, but when I
was in front of an audience, I of course was
much better as But those are some of the things
that the people don't know. But it's absolutely fair. I

(54:55):
over the years, and you're gonna you're gonna say, oh no, no, Richard, No,
I do four cameras sitcom nearly as well as I
got to. I'm a much better actor now and therefore
to be big on four camera, which you really have
to do, you have to. It's it's it's the greatest
amountum of theater and TV. I'm not nearly as good.

(55:15):
So do you know by choice or by by choice?
I can't do it anymore. It's not by choice. I
am a better actor on single camera. I prefer single camera,
meaning not four cameras going at once. You do almost
seem it's for the audience. It's it's one camera. They've
lit it all up. And which is how uh Scrubs

(55:36):
has done? You know, for those who who want to know,
when you watch All in the Family, you watch Roseanne,
there is a different look of those shows versus when
you watch Scrubs. You can feel that difference of videotape
and and here the audience so that's, uh, that is
the difference. But you're very good at that, so you

(55:57):
you you wouldn't you know, if if from sitcom came
up in New York City, you would pass on it.
If a sitcom came up in La Dude, that's all
the golfing. Now, He's right. I'm just saying I am
not nearly as well. I want to say a depth.
I can't be as I suppose. I can't. You want something,

(56:18):
I'm wrong because I'm lately doing the Goldbergs. I'm huge
on the Goldbergs and that's single camera, that single Yeah,
I'm huge, and but the premise the character is written, right,
I'll serve it absolutely. Tim Hobart though, to me, is

(56:43):
Tim Hobart running the Goldbergs. What is Tim Hobart working
on the Goldbergs or running the Goldbergs? No, no, no.
Tim Hobert did that wonderful show The Middle. Yeah, he
ran the fiddle. And I came on as a guest,
and uh, Lee Salat Semmel, who I adore, came on
and wanted my character to be a little larger, and
I went, Lee, I don't do that anymore, and she

(57:05):
sort of said, I know, but do it. And so
I had I became larger for a single camera and
it didn't feel comfortable. The person I was acting opposite
was should be big. I should be small so that
she could be big. Now we were both big. Not
my cup of tea. But I know the genre, I

(57:27):
know what it had to be. I didn't want to
do it. I agree with I agree with you. You
can't the second if you if you watch Scrubs. Of
course there's times when we're for example, Don I are
both big, but usually we're riding a line where one
person has the license to be the water of the two,
because you can't because if it's it's it's if you're
both on that level, then it doesn't feels right. And John,

(57:49):
of course was written to be ridiculously outsized. You know
John McGinley, he was, He was see a huge with it,
even if it was smoke, it was, it was at
that huge, you know. Was he would that the medic
and uh, there are larger characters on the show, which

(58:12):
made your show so wonderful, And there are enormous situations
where if you treat it realistically, they are that much funnier.
So sometimes you're acting with uh, with with the script,
but but I always thought that the audience was the
third member of the scene. Yeah, and you do that

(58:33):
with in theater, and you do that in sitcoms in
four camera, but you don't do it on scrubs. I've never,
I've never. I've done guest spots on the sitcoms. I
did Donald's and I and we did we did a
spoof of one on the show Scrubs. But I I've
never done it. I think that I would, the theater
guy in me would would probably have a lot of

(58:55):
fun doing it. It's a lot of fun. It's a
lot of fun. This is my experience with it. It's
a lot of fun. On show night. I can't sleep
after a show. But that's what theater is, right right,
every actor goes out and has a drink or two
after because who goes home from work after having all

(59:18):
of this energy? You just don't go and you know
what it's it's it's ten thirty. I'll go home and
go to sleep. You don't, right, you go out and
you have to let you have to let off steam
after a day's work. Even even after even after the
drink and I got home, I was still like it
was still still up. But the thing about about theater

(59:38):
is it is a person's life compressed into two and
a half hours. I call it a little piece of shampoo.
It's this much, it's two and a half hours, but
to rub it and all of a sudden, it's just
all of this ladder. It's it's huge, all in this
little dot, and it's it's. Uh. It takes a lot

(59:58):
to come down. And when you do a show, you
are on indortinate energy. But I got to ask you,
I got to ask you this, man, When you do
plays and stuff like that, don't you find that more
gratifying than doing fulfilling, I should say, than doing movies
and TV and stuff like that. Like I cry at
the end when I'm done with a play. For some reason,
I'm crying at the end of it. I don't feel

(01:00:20):
that way necessarily when I'm doing TV shows or when
I'm doing movies and stuff like that. But at the
end of a play, it just feels like, holy cow,
what a release. Bill Lawrence got very insulted properly about
the story that I'm about to tell. And I didn't
mean it this way, but I used to call TV

(01:00:41):
was my waiter's job so that I could afford to
do a play. Yeah, TV gave me the wherewithal the
money to raise children, have a house, eat so that
I could go and starve. Because no matter what play
you're doing, even if you're the highest paid person on stage,
you're not making them money that TV and movie pays.

(01:01:02):
And so I said it's my waiter's job, and he
took it like TV is a second rate job. It's
not if you are lucky enough to be doing first
rate material. Yeah, of course. However, however, I get more
satisfaction doing plays. I am. I'm thrilled in the rehearsal,

(01:01:25):
in fact, just doing I don't have to do a
play for longer than a month. I like rehearsing better
than doing the play. I agree. When I did when
I did my six months run on Broadway and it ended,
it was very sad, but I remember like collapsing on
the ground, being like six months was plus. Yes, fine,
I'm fine. This is it's flock. It's not the salt minds.

(01:01:46):
And it's also like going to the gym. Uh you
know how going getting to the gym, Oh my god,
oh my god. But after the workout, you're happy you didn't. Yeah, yeah.
Getting to the theater is oh Christ, this guy again,
this life again, this show again. But then you do
it and the show is over and you're happy. And
the camaraderie nothing nothing, I think Donald, one of the

(01:02:07):
reasons you're trying is that nothing, even nothing in film
and TV matches the camaraderie of of doing a play
with a group of people. Absolutely, absolutely, because you're on
you're on the line together. Man, you're on it together together.
One person falls, somebody has to pull that person back
or the play is going to fall apart. Every it'll
fall apart. And when I did Summer Stock when I
was a kid, and we did like fourteen shows and

(01:02:28):
fifteen weeks, it was it was huge and with the
same cast. It was all a repertory company, and we
were so close, and for a year or two we
were so close. I've I don't keep in touch with
one of them. But I'm telling you, I said, these
people will be my friends for the rest of my life,

(01:02:49):
and then they don't, and well, well sometimes they do.
Sometimes I take that back. I don't. I don't know
about the lie. I did a play at the Old
Globe in uh In Sandy Diego Picasso at the Lapanage.
It's a Steve Martin play, It's sure, and with with
Joey No, I did it with Justin Long. With Justin Long,

(01:03:11):
was Dan Pestelonetta in it? No, none of these people
were in well then, I know nothing of what it
was it was, but it was anyway. So we did
a play there and I just remember thinking, well, I
really like these guys. I hope we hang out after this,
and we do. I still talk to these guys, you
know what I mean. I still Justin and I we

(01:03:31):
FaceTime every now and then, like, dare you I know,
I know, I knew if I brought this up you
would get upset. I want to hear about your relationship
with Justin Long everybody. I'm still close with all the
guys from City, and you are obviously close with all
the guys from Scrubs. No personally of course. And I
and I, you know, there's people from the Bullets Show
and other shows that I that I you know, we

(01:03:52):
don't see them that much, but we text and look,
I have tea time. So we want to let you go.
But I let you go, But but I will say
and Uh I said this to you in a text
or email. But uh, Zach, you are a great man.
You're you're great at what you do. But I know
the history that you had with your co star and
you are great. You were a good good man. I'm

(01:04:16):
talking about your co star in Bullets, Nick, and I'm
well aware of your goodness and your kindness, and anybody
wants to look it up. We won't talk because it's
so serious, but you are a great man. Well, thank you, sir.
All I've done is stand by um my friends, which
I which I hope that we all would do. Um.
We also, if someone we love is in is in need,

(01:04:38):
that I think we all aspire to be the person
that will show up. Yeah, listen, I want to I
want to thank you, sir. We it is no smoke
to say that we genuinely admire you and look up
to you and quote you all the time. I mean,
Donald and Bill and I will be together on just
all of a sudden be like I have yaba. I
was waiting for that word. I was because I always yeah,

(01:05:02):
we know that, and then you go, you go, here
you go, you go, um, you go. I have I
have Yamba and and Cox goes, oh, really have you
been around um this this rare type of monkey. That's
the only person to give that to you in Africa,
And you go, I have been to the zoo. Continue.

(01:05:24):
First of all, that is also the genius of Bill
who can write for me, who wrote brilliantly for me,
and to choose the vowels that I can make a
meal with. A lot of people do an impression of me.
I can't do an impression of me, except that I

(01:05:46):
used to be a recurring character on a show called
The Commiss and and uh, somebody when I was at
a poker game and they said, are you gonna be
here next week? And I go, I can't. I'm doing
a commiss that I could do with it. I can't
do me. But when I when I say the words

(01:06:08):
that is those are the bowels that are just as
your timing. There was an episode last week we did
where you were the janitors trying to get you to
conspire with him and and he's like, hey, I, if
you you know do X y Z, I can help you.
And you kind of look up and there's a long
pause and you go go on, it's just two fucking

(01:06:31):
syllables and it's funny. And the one, the one that's
really great is when he walks into the room and
he's complaining about everything and they close the curtain on
him and Cock says to him, Uh, you know this
is going to cost you your your insurance isn't gonna
pay for this, and you immediately and you're fully trusted.

(01:06:51):
I remember that that. I do remember how did you
do that without a cowboy without a cowboy switch? How
did they do that? Because it's done so well, it's
not there's no cut. There must have been people back
there helping you because it's literally like a it's like
a four second change and it's hilarious. Is that crazy? Yeah,
here's what I wanted to say about Bill, and I

(01:07:11):
mean this. He started with Spin City, took it to
a greater extreme with you guys. Two page, three page
scenes that add up to a story that was never

(01:07:35):
done before, and when you get things like thirty Rock
and successive shows. It started with Bill and it started
on Spin City a little bit, but it really continued
with you guys. He is the creator, He is the
mind behind the new thing. Because he was young and

(01:07:58):
attention spans camera, but that's what he did he was.
He created that and it's astounding what he did. And
I don't think anybody credits him. They all credit him
with being great and you know, and and and and
super successful and commercial. But he did that with you.
I agree with you. I don't think Bill gets the
credit he deserves. I mean he's not at all. Maybe

(01:08:21):
now with ted Lasso, because guess what on Sunday he
might win the Golden Globe. Oh that'd be great. I
love ted Lasso. It's it's wonderful. Episode two is your favorite,
wasn't it? Because that's the one I directed. It was.
I did like it. I do know that that you
directed it. I actually do because I have a feeling
you too, is going to work together soon. I have
a feeling in some way, are you kidding me? There's

(01:08:43):
not if someone, if I'm directing something and there's something
he's right for, I literally request him. I say, you
have to ask Richard if he's available, and I'll save,
I will shave, I will let you go, sir with
your tea time. But thank you so much. I love
you both. I remember Daniel now. But great to see

(01:09:03):
you guys. Very thank my buddy. Care Richard let's take
a break. We'll be right back after these fine words.
Oh my god, I can't stop laughing. You guys. Daniel

(01:09:26):
and I were messaging while we were listening, and I
was like, it's so rare. You just get to sit
back and listen and past while you're recording. That was
so good that far, you guys, he had like nine
thousand more stories to tell. But I was like, we
promised we'd get him up for his tea time. I'm
Mike Shake. We have to see if he can come
back and tell us more stories away he's got He's

(01:09:48):
got so many stories, uh, you know, because he's just
a journeyman actor who's been in a zillion things. But
I really want everybody out there who is an actor
and who is coming up and everything. Just listen. If
you if this podcast did anything for you today, rewind
to when he's talking about auditions. That is, those are jewels,

(01:10:13):
those are gyms given to you from Richard Kind. And
I'm telling you right now, I'm gonna I'm gonna use them.
I'm gonna steal a lot of the stuff you mean today,
me too. And by the way, you don't even have
to be an actor. It's about if you're going into
a job interview, if you're going into a big meeting,
it's about like this, mind you're gonna mind fuck yourself
one way or the other. Why not mind fuck yourself

(01:10:35):
into like I'm a badass and you guys are gonna
be fucking lucky to have me. By the way, you're
saying this in your mind, not outline. We don't want
you writing this being like I said it out loud,
like you said I walked into the audition. Give me
this part because you know I'm the one who's gonna
make you the most money. Doesn't work out of your mouth?

(01:10:56):
All right, Well listen obviously, because Richard hadn't seen the episode,
which was an ultimate blessing in disguise because we got
to talk about so much more. We'll we'll do this
episode next time, right, Joel. Yeah, and then and we'll
just call this conversation with Richard kind um. I want
to dannel. This gives us a chance to do a
rap if you want to do one, Okay, we'll try.

(01:11:21):
This episode was very funny, by the way. Yeah, it
had some great moments. I laughed out loud a bunch. Donald,
I just have to say when you say, um, let's
not get into it. Let me just say one thing.
When you're with the heavy set gal and you're pushed
into the mattress, and it's not it's not a fantasy
she has. She has in real life pushed you down
into the mattress. That was funny. I'm gonna tell you

(01:11:44):
something right now. I love the fact that Turk likes BBW.
That's a beautiful thing. Baby. Yeah, well I like BBW two. Listen, Donald, Um,
we have to tell everyone our big news. Should we
tell everyone our big news? We're doing? We're doing family.
I thought I was going to be to get to
one to the time You're fine, no, no, no, leave it, Daniel,

(01:12:08):
Um listen. It is one of my child'shood dreams. I
never thought in my life that I would get to
be on family feud. And I'm talking. I used to
waltch back in the day when Richard Dawson was like
groping people. Um now, but but now, Steve Harvey, My
one of my life goals is to say something on
Family Feud that will make Steve Harvey do his classic

(01:12:28):
deadpan look away. And we have been contacted. I don't
know how many podcasts have been on Family Feud before
I heard The Office Ladies, but I don't know how
many others. But the four of Us and Bill because
it's five players are going to represent fake doctors, real
friends on Family Feud. Amazing. I'm so Daniel, Daniel, I

(01:12:52):
know you're particularly geeked about this. Can you tell us
what you're feeling? Don't do, Dani, Family Feud, Dude, don't look.
I'll tell you. I'll tell you this. In my head.
There are moments when I'm about to encounter someone that
I admire or that I'm a really big fan of,
and I take a second and I think about what
I'm going to say before I get there. And you

(01:13:15):
know that, for however long until we get on Family Feud,
I'm going to be running through everything that I'm going
to be saying this start before we step on that stage,
because I am truly beyond geek. It's such a huge
fan of game shows and watching Family Feud and all
of that. I mean, like, you know, a story from
the tour bus when Ian, when me and my best
friend were on tour as Gladiator, that was what we

(01:13:38):
would watch on the tour bus. We would watch Family
Feud with everybody just back to back to back to back.
It was our favorite thing. And this is like, I mean,
I'm so thankful. I really can't even We gotta win, guys,
and you know, you know, you know when we come
out of the huddle, we got to be clapping and
you notice saying, you know, you guys say good answer, answer,
good answer, good answer? Yeah, Donald, is your good answer? Okay,

(01:14:00):
Because I've watched Family Feud before when somebody said of
something and everybody was supportive saying good answer, good answer,
to be like that's a good no. But you got
to be supportive, bro. I want to be able to
say that's not a good answer. If somebody says something dumb,
even if it's me, I want to be like, that's
not a good answer. I got I'm so excited, you guys.

(01:14:22):
When I found out this news, I was like, this
is this is a little piece of you know, in
this pandemic, a little jewel of something that is so
exciting to me. We got to figure out who we're
going to be up against. That's a I mean, well, no,
they pitched I don't want to tell who, but they
pitched a couple of people that are already in the slots,

(01:14:42):
and or they said, if you have a team that
you guys want to pitch to go up against, or
our ears are open. So I don't know. I mean, look,
I think the obvious choices. We go up against something
that's very similar to scrubs. I know Office Ladies who
have been perfect, but they've already done it. Apparently, one
of my Instagram followers told me that the Office Ladies

(01:15:02):
was up against Scott Foley's actual family. They were I
watched that episode. Yeah, maybe we should we should go
again Scott family. Scott Foley's actual family is a bunch
of famous people. His wife, his sister in law, is
his brother in law. Yeah, they're all they're all very good. Well,

(01:15:23):
we want to We want to go again people that
will be funny, because that's what make the whole show funny.
Want we want We don't want it. We don't want
to dud no, No, I'm not saying folly, I'm saying
we want it. We want the other team to be
funny because you know, most importantly, we want our episode
to be hilarious. Right, absolutely, we want the funniest family people.
Everybody says, right, oh, my god, I'm gonna Do you
think Steve Harvey will let me touch his mustache? No?

(01:15:47):
Not in times? Huh what if? What if I put
on a glove? I do not think that's a good idea.
If you want to pan stare, though, that's how you
get it. That is how you get it. You touch
it mustache. And you probably watch more episodes than any
of us. Do you know the best way to you
just say something outrageous to get the dead pants there?
Usually sexual. Usually when it sexual, innuendo, bingo, there you go. Look,

(01:16:09):
I'm gonna do my impressure on it for you guys.
You gotta do the open mouth one too, an open
mouth one I said when we found out. You guys listening,
when we found out, I sent all these guys all
my favorite Steve Harvey gifts. Incredible. Oh I'm so excited

(01:16:30):
by the way. There's a Scrubs tie in because on
like episode whatever is it four or something, we cut
to when Louie Anderson was hosting, We cut we cut
to that we were on the show for boobs. I'm
gonna go with boobs. I wasn't on that episode. I
wasn't that fantasy. I was I was very upset about it.
I even spoke about it on the podcast. All right,
so look next week, I guess Thursday for you guys,

(01:16:54):
because this is for tuesdaysday. Thursday, we will dive into
the episode that we were supposed to dive into today.
All right. Otherwise, other news, don't forget to mark your
calendars for March twenty sixth. We're gonna do a live
show that's gonna be amazing. I had a really good
idea for a musical guest that I'll tell you guys

(01:17:15):
secretly Friday. Feeling too on Tuesday. Friday. Tickets for the
live event we'll be going on sale Friday. That's exciting. Yeah. Now,
are we going to cap the audience? This is something
we haven't talked about. Why would we cap them? Well,
I mean special event, man, I mean, if you if
there's two schools of thought, one is just like, let

(01:17:36):
anyone in the world who wants to come in, who
wants to buy a ticket, come in. And then the
other school of thought is like, no, let's make it
special and limit the amount of people in the quote
unquote theater like you would if you were touring. I
think the great thing about a virtual tour is that
everybody can join in. All right, so you talked to finish,
we talked about O two and all of that stuff.

(01:17:58):
There's no way you can do O two umbers if
we can, but what about the supreme model of selling
clothing where it's like, sorry, guys, we only had a
thousand seats. But the last thing I want to do, yeah,
the first real live show, small intimate theater. Okay, so
maybe if we go forward we do bespoke ones. Yeah,

(01:18:18):
I think this one. I think this is for everybody.
All our listeners want this, and so we should give
them the opportunity. And you know, if you don't want this,
I I would employ you to change your mind. It's
gonna things are gonna happen. Then, of all, things are
gonna happen that don't happen on the show. Oh yeah,
you think. Yeah, we're gonna have a musical guest. At

(01:18:42):
least we're gonna interact with our fans. Okay, you're gonna
they're gonna be able to look at our faces. Donald
will show his melted Hershey's kisses. That's by March twenty six,
which is one month from today. I'm hoping to have abs.
So maybe maybe I'll show you them. Maybe if I listen,
if I drop a few more pounds, I will show

(01:19:03):
melt at her she's kissing you. Guys can hear you,
guys can hear about what the what it's all about?
You can you know what else we can do about
As a pitch, I'll tell the audience this pitch that
I think you might like shafter Balls. You no, he's
speaking of Chapter Balls. This is kind of like our
only fans. We're doing an only fans event. Yeah, but
it's like shafter Balls, except we're not gonna show you know,
balloon nut um. I wanted to say that maybe we

(01:19:27):
sing guy love. No, no, no no, because we skirt
you scured? You scured. You think I'm scared to sing
you skured? You can sing guylove right now. It's not
a big deal. That's for the special event. Dick neick,
dick neck. It's not a big deal. You rub your neck.
I'm a dick nick, so that means my face is

(01:19:48):
the what the head the tip? Okay, rub your neck
and you look like a giraffe when that ship grows.
Fucking looked like et when it grows. Yeah, just saying
when he's fucking Okay, I hope it's a little girth

(01:20:08):
there than ets neck. Yet, Yeah, your dick neck has
a lot more girth than Oh, there go all our sponsors.
All right, listen, let's get out of here while we're ahead. Joelle,
you're right. Don't wor Joel, you can unpause rebels any moment. Listen, guys,

(01:20:29):
did you watch one division? No, I'm not caught up.
Don't say a word. Yeah, did you watch last week?
Did you watch it? Watched last week's haven't watched last nights? No,
Donald's the kind of guy that gets up in the
morning and watch it. We my wife and I watched
it this morning because we had the kids were at
school and we had a little bit of time before
the podcast and and uh who sorry, I didn't mean

(01:20:56):
leave it at that. Get your baby back on the nipple, easy, easy, there,
It is all right. There's gonna be a kid. There's
gonna be a kid that hears that. One day. It's
gonna be like, I'm so troubled. It just reminds me
of my mom's teeth. I don't know what it is
about Zach's voice, but it reminds me of suckling on

(01:21:16):
my mom's teeth. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, all right,
let's end this. That was awesome. That was such a surprise,
and it's such a great example of how like when
the second he said he hadn't seen the episode, I
was like a ret row and then I was that
was one of the most entertaining guests we've had. Um. Yeah,
he has so many stories, man. And the next time

(01:21:38):
we got to ask about the Clooney all his Clooney
uh ant because he's Clooney's best friend and they and
he and he was Clooney was best man in his wedding,
and I'm sure they have a lot of adventures that
will get Richard to tell I cannot stress this enough.
The jewels that he left we're sacred, and so please,

(01:22:00):
if you are in business and you have fear of
walking into rooms and being in front of people, or
if you need a new anecdote because the old one's
not working anymore, rewind this episode. Great talk with Richard
kind guys. Yes, all right, we love you all and
see you next time. Seven next stories about sure we

(01:22:22):
made about a bunch of dimes and nurses, And I said,
he the stories never you all should know. So YadA
around you, Here are gada around you. Here a rewatch
you mm hmmm