July 24, 2024 • 57 mins
The conversation covers two main themes: the impact of police violence on the Black community and the importance of breaking generational trauma within a family.
Elliott's opening statement focuses on the traumatic experiences of witnessing police brutality and the fear and trauma it instills in the Black community. The second theme explores the desire to heal and reconnect within a family that has been plagued by generational trauma, estrangement, and inconsistency.
This week's session highlights Jay and Freddie and the importance of forgiveness, understanding, and building strong family bonds for future generations. Freddie shares his journey of personal transformation and how he found strength through faith. They discuss the challenges of breaking generational trauma and the importance of recognizing and embracing change.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I feel so moved by the situation with Sonia Massey,
who called the police because she thought she had an intruder.
First thing she said when the police arrived is don't
hurt me. Their response was, why would we hurt you?
And they sit in her living room have a calm conversation.
Noticing that there is something on the stove, they instruct
(00:23):
her to take it off the stove so the house
does not burn. She reaches for potholders to make sure
she didn't burn herself. When she moves it off the
stove and they drew their guns. She raises her hands
with the potholders in her hands, and one of those
police officers fires upon her four times, killing her. Another
(00:44):
officer who was there renders aids to her, while the
shooting officer does nothing. The reason that's on my mind
so much is like, how can we as a black
community not have vicarious trauma from seeing those things like
it is? It is incredible to me that we're supposed
to like live in this country and feel safe as
(01:05):
functioning citizens when too often someone will call the police
for issues of safety, like related to their job, and
that person ends up dead. I think that people in
our community under we underappreciate the traumatic experience that it
is just to be black and female in this culture
(01:26):
and what it's like to just watch that, you know,
Like I'm on social media Yesterday's kind of scrolling through
and I start seeing this name, Sonia Massey. I was like,
I don't know what this is, and then I see
the video and I'm like, I've seen too many videos
of black people's lives.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Being taken in the past a few years.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So I don't know how to heal from that level
of generational trauma. And I do believe it is generational trauma,
but I do know it continues to happen. And we
need to understand that when we're choosing politicians with ridiculous rhetoric,
we are choosing more experiences like that or less, depending
on how how you vote. Donald Trump has created an
(02:07):
environment of unsafety that is so unsafe it is no
longer even safe for him. We need to think about that.
We need to have larger conversations about that. I think
any of that relevant to the Family Therapy podcast. I
have no idea, but when I see that stuff going on,
I'm like, you know, the Republicans have been very clear
(02:28):
with their Project twenty twenty five, like this is our agenda,
and one of those agenda items is police to have
immunity for things they do in the line of duty
up to an including killing citizens. If we were living
in a Project twenty twenty five era today, that officer
would be he would not be arrested. And I saw
(02:50):
Mugshott earlier today, so I believe he's been arrested. And
that scares me, like that genuinely scares me that we
could live in a world where someone could just walk
to my house shoot me because they thought the podtholders
they asked me to pick up We're somehow a weapon
and they could take my life and then they could
just go home and have dinner with their family that night.
(03:10):
That's scary to me in a way that I have
a hard time articulating to people who don't look like me.
And it's just like we live in a society of
no justice. And I don't even mean justice in a
legal sense. I mean like no honor, Like justice is
not an equitably distributed thing. So it's perfectly okay to
view this woman sitting in her house walking to her
(03:31):
stove as a threat, but Dylan Ruth shooting up an
entire Black church, somehow we think he deserves Burger King
and all this is on my mind right now. I
just saw that Sonya video last night. You know, you
follow the Angela Rise and the Tamika Valleies and the
Ben Crump's and the Lee Merrits, and you see these things,
(03:52):
and it's just like, how am I supposed to feel
safe in this country? And if you if you don't
feel safe, then the the larger question is how am
I not supposed to feel traumaed? And connected to that?
If I don't, if I'm if I'm feeling trauma, how
am I supposed to live in this country and not
have my trauma is triggered? Like it's like a cascade
of things that I don't I don't really know how
(04:14):
to sort out all the time. But you know, you know,
and I'm going to say something positive about what's on
the news going on the news and in my heart.
When Joe Biden announced I was kind of living my
life on Sunday and I followed Joe Biden on Instagram
and I saw he posted a letter and it felt
like it felt like a like a kick in the stomach.
I didn't even read I didn't have to read the letter.
(04:35):
I knew what it was. But I did eventually read it,
of course, and like that was actually where I saw it.
I didn't see it in the news outlet. I saw
it six minutes after Joe Biden posted it. Then of
course in the next few minutes it go super viral,
and for the for the next couple hours, I was
freaking out, Like the Democratic parties and shambles, what are
they going to do now? This is unprecedented blah blah blah.
(04:59):
The way the culture has rallied around Kamala Harris has
been a beautiful thing to see. Like to watch the
rallying of the culture behind Kamala Harris and to watch
the I don't know what to call it, but like
(05:20):
the internal resilience of black women and black female culture
get triggered in this moment and create a movement behind
Kamala has actually been really beautiful to see. Welcome back
(05:44):
to Family Therapy. I'm your host, Elliott Connie, and as usual,
I'm gonna ask the most common question I ask, which
is what's been better since you listen to the previous
episode and It's not just a question, it's training. The
reason I keep asking is I want you to be
to go through your life noticing the things that are
pleasing you, because the more you can train your brain
(06:07):
to notice those things, the more you can experience them.
I want all of you to realize that in every
single day, in every single week, there are things happening
that are very very good for you and things happening
that are not. That is true for all of us,
and the people who are the most happy, most satisfied,
most fulfilled are the ones who can train their brain
(06:30):
to notice the things that are happening that please them.
So that's why I ask you that question. This week's
session highlights a conversation with Freddie and Jay. We dive
into the layers of generational trauma that have created estrangement
in their family. Jay shares her new observations of changes
in her father and wants the other siblings to take
(06:51):
the time to see them as well. Freddie desperately wants
to prove Jay right and be the man he is
for her and his other children as well, but he
has to keep showing up. The family value system for
several generations has not been reinforced, thus making the effort
to connect very challenging. Generational trauma, family curses, unhealed pain, estrangement,
(07:16):
and inconsistency are a plague that runs through many, many
families until someone steps up and says, I forgive you,
I see you, and let's heal and move forward. So, Jay,
the last time we talked together with dad, he said
(07:41):
some things that you had never heard him say before.
What's been better between you and Dad since we had
that conversation?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think we have a better understanding of each other.
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
The way we interact with each other has changed necessarily,
but I think we have a better understanding with each other.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
How do you know that? Like, what's different about the
understanding having one another?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I'm not sure I know what. I just feel it. Okay,
I feel like I feel like he probably understands me better.
I understand him better.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And what are you most pleased with about what you
see your dad doing here in the last few weeks?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Help me fix my kitchen? So I'm pleased with that?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Did he really?
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh yeah, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Solid with projects all the time. He's very good at,
you know, doing contractor work.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So I've heard that.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, some of things like that.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Now, one of the things, one of the things about
the way he's been conducting himself in the past few
weeks that has impressed me is the way he's continuing
to put forth effort in reaching out to SIA. What
do you think about watching him do that?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I think it's commendable.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I don't think he's gonna get the results that he
would like, but I think, you know, it's always worth
a try.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
The reason why I think it's such a good sign
is like earlier today, Freddy said, you know, he's been
a runner all his life, and now he's facing this
knowing that the potential outcome could be difficult, but he's
still doing it. And I think that says something about him.
What do you think?
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely, I definitely feel like he's in a stage
of his life where he's kind of planning his roots
and he's kind of decided to be prevent and be
you know, more consistent than he has in the past.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
So I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Okay, cool, And what are you guys hoping we can
get accomplished in our conversation today?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'm hoping that you can put us in the direction
of a more positive direction, and for us to uh,
for us to capitalize on building a stronger relationship between
me and her and and and the rest of her
(10:16):
brothers and sisters and and and to unify the family bond.
I kind of I kind of like when she said that, Uh,
she doesn't think it's gonna be favorable with Jason, and
Jason could be sometimes And sometimes I'm a little stubborn too,
I think, Uh, I think that kind of uh twinkled
down to all my kids, you know what I mean. Uh,
(10:40):
in a way it's hard to like get them to
bounce back in a different direction. But uh, no matter
what the outcome is gonna be, He's he's always gonna
be my son, and I'm always gonna be able to
do anything in the world that I can to help
him or in that fashion. But I don't think it
could be no worse than what it is now, you
(11:03):
know what I mean, for us not to be talking.
So if he's talking that to me and cursing me
up of climbing one of the pegs on the ladder,
you know what I mean, we have a conversation, you
know what I mean. So that's that's I'm looking at
the outcome like that he had to get in. We had,
like I think, we had autiful friendship and sometimes therese
(11:25):
of that nature. They don't. They don't never disappear, you
know what I mean? Some love this don't never disappear.
We just hold back on the love is always there,
you know. So hopefully that uh you know, I shattered
that ice with him, not I just have to use
different avenues. If I can't get through the directly to him,
I just got to use a different avenue. So when
(11:46):
when whenever that avenue meets with him, the topic of
me will arise, you know what I'm saying, wherever he whoever,
so that my name would be mentioned, so he ain't
gonna be able to escape it, you know what I mean.
So uh, sooner, ladies gonna have to come, you know,
come around.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Okay, So if we can have a conversation today me,
you and Jay that continues to bring the family back together,
you'd be pleased extremely Yeah, okay, Jay, to ask you
your favorite question, what do you what do you hope
to get from talking today?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I'm just gonna piggyback off of that one.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah, I think that would be a great, a great
thing to achieve some you know, I'm being facetious, but seriously,
I do because as the oldest girl, I feel like
it's kind of my responsibility to try and connect with
with all the kids in some way and somehow bring
(12:45):
them together. I do think that our parents across the
board failed us in that aspect, as far as us
knowing each other and making it their business to make
sure that we have like had a relationship into our
you know, as we got older teenagers, young adults.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
But I get it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
You know, everybody's living their lives in different parts of
the country and kind of doing their own thing. But
now that you know, we're older, now it's our responsibility
to decide if we want to have a relationship. And
there's you know, the grandchildren at this point, our present,
(13:27):
so they shouldn't have an opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Know each other as well. I did reach out to
me just at one point.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Asking her if we could all, you know, meet up
connect in some way. She seemed open to it and
kind of gently mention it to the other ones, but
really get no response.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So I'll try again, you know, I'll.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
See if there's a way that we can all see
each other, see each other's faces. Like I saw Parrife
a few years back, and I was like the first
time I had seen him in I don't know how long.
So I think it would be a beautiful thing if
we could make that happen.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
What do you think it would mean for the family? Jay,
if you're able to make that happen. You said it's
a beautiful thing, but like, how would that make a
difference for the family, for you to be as one
of the oldest children, to take the rein and connect
all of that.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I mean, I don't know if it would make a
difference for anybody else, but for me, there's a few
few things there. So the four my siblings that are
for my mother and my father same mother and father,
are not.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
A unified front at all.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
So I think it would be very unlikely that my
brothers would be involved.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean, you know, with slid being enough and.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Are like, I don't know, he's it's iffy, Nah, it's
no relationship at all. So I feel like if I
can at least have a relationship with my other siblings
that it can kind of hopefully get us kind of
have of the next generation having a relationship as well,
(15:29):
and I think that, you know, we have to get
to a point where families are not so disjointed, like
nobody knows each other and nobody is you.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Know, has a relationship.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
You know, there's like groups, like little mini groups, but
at the end of the day, we all share the
same the same bloodline.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And I think that I just I just feel it's important.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
How come, because I've had a lot of friendships in
my life, and at the end of the day, my
family is what remains. And I still have friends and
I have, you know, people that I feel like I
always would be connected to, but you know, friendships can
(16:14):
kind of come and go, but at the end of
the day, it's family. You know that that same blood
is thicking on water, is right. It took me a
really long time to believe that, but I do believe
it now, and I do think it matters, and you know,
there's an opportunity that we should try.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
We should at least try now.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You have said now twice, at least twice, how important
it was for the kids to know each other, like
the grandkids, right, Like, yeah, why do you think that matters?
Why is it so important to you that the next
generation of kids don't have the estrangement that you that
you're talking about you guys.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Having, because every generation before them is getting has got
it wrong.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So at some point we got to break this. You know.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I know people throw around this generational curse you know
phrase a lot, but for lack of a better phrase,
that at some point that curse has to be broken.
You know, every generation cannot be disconnected, and not not
to say that everything's going to be perfect.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I don't expect that, but you know we can.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We can know each other, we can talk to each other.
You know, my mother and her brother don't have a relationship.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I know my father has relationship with his siblings to
a certain extent, but I don't know that is that tight.
So I just feel like, you know, every generation prior
has missed the ball in some way, and I think
it's important that we teach our children that, you know, relationship,
(18:00):
these relationships do have value and they are important. And
if not one else in the world is there for you,
the family will be.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And I think we can create that bond and teach.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
That value system, then you know, our children won't ever
feel alone, They'll never feel.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Like they have.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
You know, they're always going to have their parents. But
you know, it's not just about your parents. You know,
there's the family is there. We come from a long
line of people, and we should know who those people
are and we should be connected to the truth of
those people.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Jane, what would it be like for you two? And look,
this stuff doesn't happen overnight, and I'm sure you've already
figured that out, But what would it be like for
you to contribute to breaking the family curse? What difference
did that make for you?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
You know, when I'm no longer here, I don't know
that my kids have other people that they can, you know,
feel connected to.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And what do you know about your father that you
wish your siblings knew?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I wish they knew that he is not who he
used to be. I wish they knew that that he
has fought the good fight and he's been able to
overcome a lot of obstacles, and that he he is
someone that they can rely on, someone that he can
(19:26):
they can talk to, and someone that you know, has
a wealth of knowledge to share and funny stories. And
you know, I think I think he's a He's he's
a pretty solid guy, like.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know what I mean, Like I don't hold.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Animosities towards him, so you know, I can see the
goodness of him, and I would want them to have
the opportunity to see that as well.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think that's really special about you. By the way, Jay,
how did you get to a point where you can
see I just think you said something so incredibly powerful.
He's not the man he used to be. How come
you could get to the point where you can see
that in him?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Because he's shown me he has consistently over the last
four years. I would say, he's shown me that, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
He he's available, he's here, he's present, and that he
you know, he wants to care.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
He wants to show that he cares. And I can
just see it, you know, And it's not, you know,
some pie in the sky. He's shown it to me.
He's already proven to me that that that's the thing,
that's the thing for him. So I don't have to
question it. I can see why his actions that you know,
(20:57):
he's serious about knowing me and knowing my family.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Man Freddy, she just said something, really, she said, he's
not the same man he used to be. You can
depend on him. You can rely on him. He's a
wealth of knowledge and information and you can talk to him.
She just said all of that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Wow, it's almost.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Like, uh, fill this bucket up about me right now,
because you know some somethings that a hot woman uh
uh that this this fills your soul up, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And I feel that Uh. I think like a lot
of people, that they remember the worst part about you, Yes, sir,
you know, they remember the evil things that you did,
you know what I mean. They don't They don't remember
the things that you're trying to make a missions for
or the things you're trying to to uh to correct
(21:59):
or or or to say you're sorry for Please forgive
me for all the things that I've done wrong to
you and you and your life, you know what I mean. Uh.
They don't open up their heart, they don't open up
their mind, they don't use They just hold on to
the bitterness, you know what I mean. And I think that, uh,
(22:20):
when you allow yourself to do that, you you could
be eating up away inside, you know what I mean.
All that this filters keep filtering out, and your whole
and your whole relationship with everybody, you know what I mean.
So you you gotta give a chance for a room
for forgiveness in your life for people, you know what
I mean. So if you see somebody trying to make
(22:41):
amends or trying to make a change in their life,
or have made a change in their life, and you're
not willing to accept them back or accept that, uh
to forgive them, then you know you hurting your own self,
you know what I mean? Because like life is too up, man,
life is way too short. The whole the whole animosity
(23:04):
or whole vengeance or her whole uh built on inside you.
You know what I mean. You got to release that, man.
You just gotta let it just float up in the atmosphere. Man,
you just gotta just let it go.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, you know what I mean. Look, one of the
things I know about Jay is she's not very good
at bsing like she's going to tell you how she
feels about things. Would you say that's true about her?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, there's a lot of conversations that I had with her,
uh that the things that she said said to me
that would you know, hit the bullseye, you know what
I mean. You'd be like, sometimes you need somebody to
tell you the truth, man, you know what I mean,
not to beat around the bush with stuff, You know
what I mean, to be like straightforward like bang. You
(23:49):
know that's you know, it's like that. It's like that,
you know what I'm saying. Sometimes you have a conversation
with somebody and they just they just feeding back off
what you're saying, you know what I'm saying, And they
don't got they don't say nothing contradict you to what
you're saying. You know what I'm saying. That it's such
a show of agreement, you know what I mean. You
don't want to have a conversation with a person that
(24:09):
always gonna be yes, yes, yes, you know what I mean.
So when I when I talk to when I talk
to Jay, and she said, if I say something that
she thinks is wrong, she has no uh hesitation to say,
pop that ain't right.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Right, she has no problem that ain't right.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Not commend her for that because the fact that sometime
in your life, you know, you you you you don't
want to sit down with somebody that's gonna be a
you know, a yes man. Everything you said you got,
you know what I mean, like just to please you,
you know what I'm saying they don't. They don't mind
hurting your feelings a little bit, you know what I mean,
just just to put you in the right the right path,
(24:49):
and sometimes you feeling God to be gotta be hurt
a little bit to like yo, damn. You know that's
that's right, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, the reason the reason I say that is for
her to say what she said, He's not the same
man he used to be. He is dependable, he is reliable,
and he is someone you can talk to. You must
have done something to make her think that, because I'm
betting in your lowest worst moment, she would not have
(25:19):
said that. So for her to say that now, you
must have done something or some things plural that would
allow her to say that, Freddie, what do you think
you've done that would allow Jay to say what she
just said.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I believe that sometime, you know, far as just to
be uh, being acceptable to the things in your life.
That's you know, sometimes people they'll sit back and watch,
you know what I mean, he gonna go right, he
going all right back into real thing. He ain't changed,
(25:58):
you know what I mean. So sometimes people don't don't
don't help you change, you know, they wait for you
to feel you know what I'm saying, They wait wait
for you fall on your face. You know what I'm saying.
Like with her, she gives you that help man, that
that helping the advice. You know what I'm saying. She
don't She's not waiting for you for the disaster. She's
trying to prevent the disaster. You know, I think a
(26:19):
lot of people just wait for you, you know, for you,
you know, for you to mess up. You know, they
feel more comfortable watching you and misery and watching you
being happy, you know what i mean. So that's her
whole heart. Her heart is so so so so developed
(26:40):
and in a way where she she always gives you
that helping hand. You know what I'm saying, Uh, helping advice,
you know what I mean, That encouragement. Sometimes somebody just
need a little bit of encouragement along the way of life,
you know what I mean. And see this type of
person will give you that when you're just about to tumble.
You know what I'm saying, She don't hold your hands
(27:01):
so you don't fall on your face.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, she is all of those things. And I'm gonna
say something to her about that in a second. But
how did you conduct What did you do that helped
her start to view you in a different way.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I think a lot of things that I don't
I used to do in my life. I don't do
that at all, you know I don't. I don't fall
victim to a lot of things. Uh, I take a
responsibility sometimes. You know what I'm saying. You look for
their skate route, you know what I mean. And I'm
(27:39):
not looking for that skate roum no more. I'm finding,
you know, the right path to take in my life now,
you know what I'm saying. I'm not always looking for
the no longer looking for the way out or the quick, fast,
fixed way. You know what I mean. I'm in that fight,
you know, fight and fight hard, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And I.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Enjoy my life now, you know what I mean, Like
when I see when I see my friends or I
see somebody that you still and life is so such
in a term oil, you know what I mean. You
know I can I can say to him, I said,
you know I was dead. I know how it is,
you know what I mean. I know, like that's just
(28:19):
a miserable life man to be ripping and running that day,
you know, after a dollar, after a drug or after
you know, after you know, anything that's not gonna be
uh favorable in your life, you know what I mean.
Just this just destroying you? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
What allowed you to be the kind of person like
I don't do the things I used to anymore and
I can now live my life on on this other path.
What allowed you to do that?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I think that you know, you gotta face yourself, you
know what I mean. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta
make sure that you you're right, you know what I mean?
And life, because like, if you don't love yourself, nobody
else gonna love you. You know what I'm saying. You
don't care about the next day, if you live or die,
Nobody else gonna care if you live or die. You
know what I mean. If you don't care about your
own well being, anybody else ain't gonna care about your
(29:11):
well being. You know what I'm saying. You know what
I'm saying. So if you if you don't care, and
they see that you don't care about ship or nothing
to you know what, they be like, you don't have
that same sentimental They're gonna be like if you don't care,
to watch your care. You know what I mean. If
you don't love me, watch you'll love him. You know
what I mean. If we don't put forth as far
as like showing that initiative and life, well you care
(29:35):
and you you you you are available to somebody for
any thing in their life, you know what I'm saying.
If it ain't just to walk to somebody, actually walk
to the store time, somebody could ask you to walk
to go to the store form you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It's not always the biggest thing in life that you
could do with somebody. Might just be that little thing
that to stay hard, you know what I mean. So,
and I'm coming to terms with those things in life
where I'm open. I'm acceptable to everybody else's well being,
you know what I mean, not only mine.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
We'll be right back with more family therapy. When did
you realize you could do it? Freddie? When did you
realize you could turn things around?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Well, it wasn't exactly an earth shadow, mean an event
that happened in my life that made me change change myself.
I just got down on my knees one day and
asked God to give me the strength to be a
better man. To serve not only him, but to serve
mankind and a positive aspect of life.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Freddie, Freddie, hold on, I'm gonna stop you real quick.
Did you just say, Jay, did you hear what your
dad just said? Freddy? Did you just say it wasn't
an earth shattering event. I just got down on my
knees and asked God to give me the strength to
change my life. Did you just say that that sounds
like an earth shattering moment to me? You said it
(31:15):
was an earth shatter event. I just got down on
my knees and ask God to help me be a
better man. And apparently, as evidenced by the things Jay
has said, God answered that prayer. And you're gonna tell
me that's not an earth shattering event.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, you know, because like I'm not saying like as
far as like it is, because you know, uh, his
accomplishments is always you know, sometimes it could be the
smallest thing, uh to you, and that's all you need
is that's that's that that little touch of that little
(31:51):
light at the end of the tunnel, you know what
I mean. Ain't gotta be a big flash or big
like a irene your atomic bomb going off. Could this
be that little, that little touch of encouragement that he
filled me with. AND's like, yo, you know, because I
you know, I you know, like I said, I ain't
(32:12):
think I was gonna be twenty five years old, you
know what I mean. The way the way my life
was going, man, twenty five was it was it.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I couldn't even foresee it, you know what I mean.
I really couldn't foresee you because like my life had
been taken away from me so many times, you know
what I mean, by me being in the streets and
by me doing silly, stupid things, you know what I mean.
I used to I used to even do things that
what caused me to die, you know what I mean,
(32:45):
just to prove my manhood approved that you know, I ain't,
I ain't scared, you know what I mean. And I
look back at those things that I did. Man, what
the hell was wrong with you? You know what I mean?
What was on your What in the world you was
thinking about? You know what I mean? So you know,
I thank God for me being here now, like reaching that,
(33:08):
I mean, reach sixty five, you know what I mean.
I want to have a have a have a party.
I'm hoping that that that'll come to effect, you know
what I mean, and hopefully that everybody would attend. As
far as my family and kids, cousins, you know, I
(33:28):
really like more of like be a family thing a
guy and than like more than a social work affair,
you know what I mean. As far as like my
uncle's aunts, you know, cousins, you know, especially you know,
my grandkids. You know what I mean. I'm kind of
looking forward to because like I didn't, I never look
forward to celebrating the birthday, you know what I mean. Uh,
(33:52):
I was just like living minute to minute out out,
you know what I mean, And what kind of life
is that? The half of and and being that don't
really value their own life, you know what I mean,
So you gotta come to self, you know, preservation Like
I'm him, I'm gonna be sixty five is a joyful
(34:14):
event for me now, you know what I mean. You know,
it's monumental to me now, so it's accomplished. It's something
I would never if I was twenty four years old
and somebody asked me, what are you gonna do when
you sixty five? I said, man, I'll be like I'll
be blown away because I think I would never make
it to sixty five?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
When is your sixty fifth birthday actually in August? In August?
Did you ever think, and I want you to think,
really honestly, think back to your lowest moment. You're incarcerated,
you ain't talk to any of your kids, and however
long did you ever think that one of your kids
would describe you as dependable, easy to talk to, a
(34:55):
wealth and knowledge, and reliable. Do you ever think in
that low moment, man, when did you do you ever
think one of your kids would say that? And not
just one of your kids, but like one of your
honest you know, Jay is not someone to just say
random stuff. If she said one of the things I've
learned about Jay, and Jay correct me if I'm wrong.
But if Jay says it, she means it. That's how
(35:15):
Jay is like. She doesn't just talk. If Jay spoke it,
she meant what she said. And she described you in
those four ways. Reliable, dependable, He's not the man who
used to be wealth and knowledge, easy to talk to.
Did you, when you were in your lowest moment, did
you ever think one of your children will describe you
in that way?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Not at all, not one bit. I think in my
lowest moment in my life that that would never have
crossed my mind, you know what I mean, for as
far as one of my kids to be let's say
something like that, you know what I mean, because it
would be extremely outrageous, you know what I mean. Sometimes
you can't you can't buy love, You can't buy a verse,
(36:00):
well spoken word about somebody. You can't buy that, you
know what I'm saying. And you can't produce that from
somebody unless it's real, you know what I mean. If
it ain't real, it's gonna it's never gonna be manufactured
like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
So one of the things I'm thinking is Jay has
this really big goal. I'm not sure she knows how
big it is, but Jay's got this really big ambition
to like and I think the way she phrased it
was to break the family curse. Jay, Did I catch
that right? And like bring the family back together so
(36:40):
that the children can grow up knowing their family. How
can you help Jay do that? Freddie? What could be
your role in helping Jay to accomplish changing the legacy
within the family.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Well, I believe my purpose in that or try to
an influence or we'll share with uh the families and
and and and make sure that they realize that it's
time for the family to have the real capital f
on it. You know what I mean, really spelled each
(37:15):
and every everybody's heart. You know what I'm saying, because we,
like she said, our family, we we Everybody is in
their own world, you know what I mean. Everybody doing
their own thing. You know what I mean, with their
own little clique, you know what I mean. And that's
their family. You know what I'm saying, and what you know,
it's it's not extremely wrong, but the family is much
(37:37):
bigger than this one one son and one daughter, you
know what I mean. His cousins is, his sisters and
brothers and grandkids. You know what I mean. I don't
think we ever had a family reunion where everybody went
bought T shirts, you know what I mean, Like I
don't I don't believe that we ever had one of
(37:58):
something like that. It's something that we should we should
always should look forward to, you know what I mean,
if somebody could just like initiate something like that and
put forth an effort to make it happy, you know
what I mean. I mean, like you know, to bite
down on you know, you know, and make it happy.
Twenty twenty people show it up. Maybe the next time
(38:20):
fifty people show up. Sometimes word of mouth carries a
lot of weight, especially like while I was at the
family re union and they said, woll you ain't come?
Ain't you family? You know what I mean? Sometimes you
know you got you know, hit below the bell.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
When I talk to the two of you, I just
feel so much love. And Jay, can I there's something
I want to say to you about what you're trying
to accomplish and said, all right, can I share something
with you and give you a suggestion maybe even advice
if I could use that word. You are capable of
so much love and this is an act of love
(38:57):
to be able to bring the family together. And the
way you're describing and Freddy just said something that really
stuck out to me, Like, you know, maybe the first
time you do something, maybe a few people show up.
And I'm thinking, like I think your job, as you
reach out to your siblings like you would talking about earlier,
is just to invite them into this space, like invite
(39:21):
them into this dynamic that you have created with Freddie
and help them experience him the way you experience him,
and if they accept that invitation, great, but if not,
just keep doing it because one of the things I
know is love is a very powerful and contagious thing.
Like eventually people are going to be like, hey, what's
going on over there? And they eventually kind of attract
(39:46):
to it. But the dynamic you're creating between you and
your children and your father's slash their grandfather is a
very powerful thing. And I'm not I wonder if you
were aware of its power. And you can't make all
the siblings see it, but you can cultivate it and
(40:11):
nurture it to the point where the siblings start asking
about it, like what's going on over there? And then
before you know it, one or two of them show up,
and before you know it, they bring their kids, and
before you know what I mean, like, you create the
environment where it flourishes. You can't make them come, but
you can just cultivate it to the point where everybody
wants to be a part of it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yes? Absolutely? I think I guess we're not ready. We're
not quite ready for like.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
You know, the T shirts yet, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I do think on a small scale.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
We can certainly start, you know, with those who are
willing and let it build from there.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
For sure, absolutely, and I'm willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
You're the right person at the right time to change
the whole family legacy.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
I think I can do that, I guess for me though,
for for Pops, I think the biggest part that you
could play is to show up for them the way
you show up for me, because and to continue to try,
you know, because they're not going to see you the
way I see you, and it may take some time
to get there. It may take some time to get there,
(41:23):
and that's okay, and we may never get there with everybody,
but you know, we start with what we can and
we take it from there.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I just want to go back to something you said.
I want to make sure we hit this. You said,
one of the ways he can help you is to
show up for them the way he shows up for you. Now, right,
some of your siblings may make it harder for him
to show up than you did. How do you want
your dad to respond to that? Like, if one of
(41:54):
your siblings makes it, you know, just not easy for him, right,
How would you like to see your father how would
like to see him respond to it when it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
To be patient? You know, you just got to be
patient and keep that fighting spirit. You know. I think that.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
The way you describe your relationship with Jason, I don't
it may be just as challenging with some of the
other children. So you just got to keep trying and
just keep trying and not like not let it go
because I don't think it's going to be easy. But
you know, it hasn't been easy for us to not
(42:32):
have you present. So it's not you know, tit for tat,
but it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You know, you know what Jay like, it's not really
fair for him to expect easy, is it? Like it
wasn't easy for you guys. He's got to go through
some hard too. And I don't and I don't mean
like payback with t for TAT like you were saying,
but like, it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
When you haven't been present or consistent, this is the result.
And it's just like need any If water in the plant,
it's gonna flourish, it's gonna it's gonna live, But if
you start watering it, it's gonna die. And hopefully you
know the relationships with each one is not dead to
a point that it can't be revived. But it's gonna
need some sun, it's gonna need some some attention. It's
(43:15):
gonna need a little bit of care, and hopefully, you know,
you'll be able to get there. I would love for
you to grow old knowing that we You know, when
you're eighty ninety years old, you can sit back and
be like, I tried.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
My best with all of them. You know, once I
once I changed, I allowed my children to know who
I am now.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's I mean, that's beautiful. Jay Like
and Freddy. I want you to hear her. They had
to go through something hard, so damn it, you do too.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Already. No, the pining that I probably put them through
is layered up, you know. So if I break that
layer down today, I got a chance to break another
layer down the mall. So by the time Tuesday come,
I'm working on another layer. So I know, like it's
(44:05):
not gonna just the minute, just that quickly, because it
been built up for so many years, you know what
I mean. I think with my daughter, and I think
I was in there. I was in there with her
to the point where my kids was calling me on FaceTime.
You know, they knew who they knew who their papa was.
(44:28):
And then I think, I think I started lacking again,
you know what I mean. I started off again, you
know what I mean. I wasn't constant with it, you know,
and then I go back into their life. Then I
build back up again, then I lack again, you know
what I mean. I gotta be more persistent at it
(44:53):
all the time, you know, not just a spot there,
a spot there. They gotta be in a and you
as basis, you know what I mean. And I think
that's the problem with her, you know what I mean,
because like once you you know, you make it, develop
something with it with somebody, and you keep pulling back again.
(45:14):
It's hard for them to let you, let you for
them let you back in because they think they're gonna
I'm gonna fall out again, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
That is so important because I know for me, like
I don't I don't do like I'm at that point
in my life. I don't do people who are inconsistent wet.
We don't do that around here, right, So absolutely though,
don't do that for my children. If you're gonna be
a part of their lives. You're gonna be a part
of their lives. If you're not gonna be it, then
(45:41):
you know, go, you know, do your thing. But there's
no inconsistency there. And Diana, like me, I'm a mother
and she's a mother, and she probably feels the same way, like, nah,
you're gonna if you're gonna be here, you're gonna have
to be here because you're not gonna be pop pops sometimes,
you know what I mean, Like this is this is
not just a title. There's responsibility that comes with that.
(46:04):
So hopefully you know what I'm saying. She she'll be
open as you know, as things move forward.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
But there's definitely not gonna be easy. But you gotta
be you.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Gotta be serious about that part. You know, you set
a calendar thing. Maybe you just know that you got
to go down the list and call every single.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Kid once a week, you know what I mean. He's
let that two hours to the side. You got a
lot of kids though, so you might need three hours.
I don't know, but you know, you might.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Just have to set that time to the side where
you say, this is what I do at this time
every week, once a week, you know, what I'm saying,
and I think that might help you know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
But Freddy, I asked Jay, if you would have asked
me right now, is what is Jay's biggest ambition? I
would think it would be to break this family curse?
And I asked her what does she need from Freddy
to help her? And she gave a three word answer.
Do you know what that three word answer was? She
said it a couple of times. Actually, do you know
(47:05):
what it was? Did you catch it? Being consistent, keep
showing up, That's what she said. She said it a
couple of times, being consistent, being consistent, keep showing up.
That's what she needs from you, because then the other
siblings are going to see in you what she sees
(47:25):
in you. And that's how families heal. I genuinely believe
that there's nothing families can't get through together. It just
might take some time, but you have to keep showing up.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
When I call somebody and they don't answer, or they
don't pick up or go straight to voicemail, it used
to bother me a great deal, you know what I meant.
I used to get defensive about it, you know what
I mean? But did I realize it was my own
full you know what I mean. I was the one
that established that feeling with that out or with that person,
(48:01):
the only one who made the situation in the way
it is, you know what I mean. So I don't
I don't get I don't get like to turd by
it anymore. I mean, like, okay, it ain't go too
favorble this time. You know, if I call you four
or five times and you still have an answer, you
know I caused you know what I mean? You know
(48:23):
I made an attempt. You know what I mean. Then
one day, definitely they're gonna pick up the phone and
voice their opinion voice they are they way they feeling,
and I gotta suck it up like a sponge, you know,
because I caused it the way they feel.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
One of the ways I want you to think about
this is your children aren't mad at you. They're mad
at who you used to be. They just don't know
that that's now different. Jay knows. So if you the
reason why Jay wants you to keep showing up is
she knows something very important. She knows that who you
(48:59):
are and who you used to be aren't the same person.
And if you keep showing up, then everybody will see that,
But right now, not all the kids see that. They
don't all know that who he is and who he
used to be aren't the same. So I want you
to remember that they're not mad at you today. They're
mad at who you used to be. They just don't
know that who you are today is different. And if
(49:20):
you keep showing up, they will learn that in the
same way that Jay has. Because Jay now describes you
as reliable, dependable, a wealth of knowledge, who is good
to talk to. That's how she talks about you today.
I'll bet you fifteen years ago that's not what she said,
but that's what she says now. Let everyone else in
(49:43):
the family recognize, Oh, this guy is different.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
I think it's also.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
You know, if they ever hear this, I would want
to express to them you can't hold on to what
you want your parents to be. You have to be
able to see them for the human they are right now,
right and not even.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Just as a father figure. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
I think a lot of the challenges I had when
I was younger is like I had this expectation or
what a dad should be, what a mom should be,
and then as I got older, I just kind of
let it go, and I just say, you know what,
I'm gonna let them be who they are, and then
I'm gonna understand take the moment to understand who they
are and adjust accordingly. So I just hope that they
(50:36):
will have, you know, be able to get to a
point where they just say, you know what, I'm going
to let him be who he is and accept and
be accepting of that and try to establish a relationship
based on the truth.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Of who he is, not the image that I want
him to be right.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And it turns out who he is is not so bad.
Who he was was in by alcohol, drugs, the streets.
Who he is is actually a pretty reliable, dependable, loving,
caring guy. Ye but she but Jay can't show you
(51:16):
off to the siblings unless you keep showing up so
they get to see that. Freddy. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Great deal?
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yeah? Do lie? Yo?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Listen, Freddy.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Show her that she's right, because she's right.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That's my first ambition and in my life is to
show her she absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Generational trauma is defined as trauma that is passed down
from one generation to the next. This is very very
relevant in the black community. The first trauma, being slavery,
and all of the things that happen in coping with
such trauma, drinking, Like, there are lots of things that
happen in the context of that issue poverty. I mean,
(52:21):
there's a lot of trauma that gets passed down. So
how do we recognize it? I think we all know
kind of what's good for us and what we should
be doing that that is in our best interest, and
you've got to be willing to break the pattern. And
breaking a pattern is really really hard because whether it's
(52:42):
a good habit or a bad habit, whether it's a
good pattern or a bad pattern, we all rely on
the patterns. So when you do something that is outside
of the pattern, even if good, the system will have
a response to try to keep you in line with
the previously held pattern. So the pattern breaker has to
be a very strong and resilient person and understand that
(53:05):
they're going against the system and the system will push back.
So the best way to know whether you're dealing with
a generational trauma or not is to rely on your
instincts that tell you what is good for you and
what is not and follow the path of the things
that are good for you. And understand the system is
going to push back, and you fight that pushing. The
(53:27):
other really beautiful thing is you don't even have to
fully understand the trauma. That's actually not the goal and
it's not the point. Your job is to get fully
committed to creating a new pattern and understanding it's going
to be hard. Stay tuned for my final thoughts after
this as it relates to change. In how to recognize change,
(53:56):
I read a quote in a book many many years
ago that says a change is only a change if
it's noticed whenever someone has caused you harm and someone
close to you like a parent or a partner or
something best friend. Change is also really scary because you
also don't know if you can trust it. So the
(54:20):
number one thing I would like to say about this
topic is the way to notice change is to look
for it and understand it's going to take a risk. Now,
I'm not asking you to experience harm while someone is changing,
but I am saying if it's one of those relationships
like we only get one mom and one dad, like
(54:42):
some of these relationships are so close that they're worth
the risk, and actually having those people out of your
life causes even more harm. So with someone like Freddy
who is trying, just take the opportunity to look and
see evidence of the change. Maybe you'll see something, maybe
(55:03):
you won't, But if you look for it, then you
give yourself the opportunity to experience something new, different in healing.
If you don't see it, then continue to have a
boundary against that person. But if you do see it,
it'll change your life and change theirs in a monumental way.
And I think that's worth it, worth it, worth it.
It's important to ask yourself different questions on your healing journey.
(55:25):
For the next few weeks, I will ask you a
question at the end of each episode to hopefully inspire
your inner superhero. This week, I want you to ask yourself,
given that forgiveness is the greatest gift that you will
ever give yourself, who in your family's lineage needs the
most forgiving, even if that person is no longer with us.
(55:47):
I want you to look back, who in your family's
lineage needs the most forgiving and if you are able
to achieve that forgiveness, what difference would it make to
that person and to yourself. This is not just a
podcast that I want you to consume and be entertained
by I actually want you to be inspired. I want
(56:07):
you to be impacted by this, and in fact, we
can't help but be impacted by the content we consume.
So what I would like for you to do is
come on this healing journey with us. Come on this
journey of change rediscovery with us. And the way to
do that is to just pay attention to the things
going on in your life as a consequence of listening
(56:30):
to this podcast. Pay attention to things in your life
shifting in a more desirable way. Pay attention to your
desirable outcome becoming your reality. Pay attention to evidence of
your success, your resilience, and your strength. And let us
know in the comments what you're noticing in your life
as a result of listening to this podcast and as
a result of paying attention to these things. I would
(56:53):
love to hear from you about your healing journey, your family,
and your feedback. Leave a review, send a DM, connect
me on socials at Elliott Speaks, and you can also
send me a text message to nine seven two four
two six two six four zero. Family Therapy is a
production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Special
Thanks to our assistant, Glendale Seppe. It's produced by Jack
(57:15):
Queish Thomas and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on The Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
(57:41):
specific concerns or questions you may have.
I feel so moved by the situation with Sonia Massey,
who called the police because she thought she had an intruder.
First thing she said when the police arrived is don't
hurt me. Their response was, why would we hurt you?
And they sit in her living room have a calm conversation.
Noticing that there is something on the stove, they instruct
(00:23):
her to take it off the stove so the house
does not burn. She reaches for potholders to make sure
she didn't burn herself. When she moves it off the
stove and they drew their guns. She raises her hands
with the potholders in her hands, and one of those
police officers fires upon her four times, killing her. Another
(00:44):
officer who was there renders aids to her, while the
shooting officer does nothing. The reason that's on my mind
so much is like, how can we as a black
community not have vicarious trauma from seeing those things like
it is? It is incredible to me that we're supposed
to like live in this country and feel safe as
(01:05):
functioning citizens when too often someone will call the police
for issues of safety, like related to their job, and
that person ends up dead. I think that people in
our community under we underappreciate the traumatic experience that it
is just to be black and female in this culture
(01:26):
and what it's like to just watch that, you know,
Like I'm on social media Yesterday's kind of scrolling through
and I start seeing this name, Sonia Massey. I was like,
I don't know what this is, and then I see
the video and I'm like, I've seen too many videos
of black people's lives.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Being taken in the past a few years.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
So I don't know how to heal from that level
of generational trauma. And I do believe it is generational trauma,
but I do know it continues to happen. And we
need to understand that when we're choosing politicians with ridiculous rhetoric,
we are choosing more experiences like that or less, depending
on how how you vote. Donald Trump has created an
(02:07):
environment of unsafety that is so unsafe it is no
longer even safe for him. We need to think about that.
We need to have larger conversations about that. I think
any of that relevant to the Family Therapy podcast. I
have no idea, but when I see that stuff going on,
I'm like, you know, the Republicans have been very clear
(02:28):
with their Project twenty twenty five, like this is our agenda,
and one of those agenda items is police to have
immunity for things they do in the line of duty
up to an including killing citizens. If we were living
in a Project twenty twenty five era today, that officer
would be he would not be arrested. And I saw
(02:50):
Mugshott earlier today, so I believe he's been arrested. And
that scares me, like that genuinely scares me that we
could live in a world where someone could just walk
to my house shoot me because they thought the podtholders
they asked me to pick up We're somehow a weapon
and they could take my life and then they could
just go home and have dinner with their family that night.
(03:10):
That's scary to me in a way that I have
a hard time articulating to people who don't look like me.
And it's just like we live in a society of
no justice. And I don't even mean justice in a
legal sense. I mean like no honor, Like justice is
not an equitably distributed thing. So it's perfectly okay to
view this woman sitting in her house walking to her
(03:31):
stove as a threat, but Dylan Ruth shooting up an
entire Black church, somehow we think he deserves Burger King
and all this is on my mind right now. I
just saw that Sonya video last night. You know, you
follow the Angela Rise and the Tamika Valleies and the
Ben Crump's and the Lee Merrits, and you see these things,
(03:52):
and it's just like, how am I supposed to feel
safe in this country? And if you if you don't
feel safe, then the the larger question is how am
I not supposed to feel traumaed? And connected to that?
If I don't, if I'm if I'm feeling trauma, how
am I supposed to live in this country and not
have my trauma is triggered? Like it's like a cascade
of things that I don't I don't really know how
(04:14):
to sort out all the time. But you know, you know,
and I'm going to say something positive about what's on
the news going on the news and in my heart.
When Joe Biden announced I was kind of living my
life on Sunday and I followed Joe Biden on Instagram
and I saw he posted a letter and it felt
like it felt like a like a kick in the stomach.
I didn't even read I didn't have to read the letter.
(04:35):
I knew what it was. But I did eventually read it,
of course, and like that was actually where I saw it.
I didn't see it in the news outlet. I saw
it six minutes after Joe Biden posted it. Then of
course in the next few minutes it go super viral,
and for the for the next couple hours, I was
freaking out, Like the Democratic parties and shambles, what are
they going to do now? This is unprecedented blah blah blah.
(04:59):
The way the culture has rallied around Kamala Harris has
been a beautiful thing to see. Like to watch the
rallying of the culture behind Kamala Harris and to watch
the I don't know what to call it, but like
(05:20):
the internal resilience of black women and black female culture
get triggered in this moment and create a movement behind
Kamala has actually been really beautiful to see. Welcome back
(05:44):
to Family Therapy. I'm your host, Elliott Connie, and as usual,
I'm gonna ask the most common question I ask, which
is what's been better since you listen to the previous
episode and It's not just a question, it's training. The
reason I keep asking is I want you to be
to go through your life noticing the things that are
pleasing you, because the more you can train your brain
(06:07):
to notice those things, the more you can experience them.
I want all of you to realize that in every
single day, in every single week, there are things happening
that are very very good for you and things happening
that are not. That is true for all of us,
and the people who are the most happy, most satisfied,
most fulfilled are the ones who can train their brain
(06:30):
to notice the things that are happening that please them.
So that's why I ask you that question. This week's
session highlights a conversation with Freddie and Jay. We dive
into the layers of generational trauma that have created estrangement
in their family. Jay shares her new observations of changes
in her father and wants the other siblings to take
(06:51):
the time to see them as well. Freddie desperately wants
to prove Jay right and be the man he is
for her and his other children as well, but he
has to keep showing up. The family value system for
several generations has not been reinforced, thus making the effort
to connect very challenging. Generational trauma, family curses, unhealed pain, estrangement,
(07:16):
and inconsistency are a plague that runs through many, many
families until someone steps up and says, I forgive you,
I see you, and let's heal and move forward. So, Jay,
the last time we talked together with dad, he said
(07:41):
some things that you had never heard him say before.
What's been better between you and Dad since we had
that conversation?
Speaker 3 (07:50):
I think we have a better understanding of each other.
I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (07:56):
The way we interact with each other has changed necessarily,
but I think we have a better understanding with each other.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
How do you know that? Like, what's different about the
understanding having one another?
Speaker 4 (08:06):
I'm not sure I know what. I just feel it. Okay,
I feel like I feel like he probably understands me better.
I understand him better.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
And what are you most pleased with about what you
see your dad doing here in the last few weeks?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Help me fix my kitchen? So I'm pleased with that?
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Did he really?
Speaker 5 (08:27):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Oh yeah, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Solid with projects all the time. He's very good at,
you know, doing contractor work.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
So I've heard that.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Yeah, yeah, some of things like that.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
Now, one of the things, one of the things about
the way he's been conducting himself in the past few
weeks that has impressed me is the way he's continuing
to put forth effort in reaching out to SIA. What
do you think about watching him do that?
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I think it's commendable.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
I don't think he's gonna get the results that he
would like, but I think, you know, it's always worth
a try.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
The reason why I think it's such a good sign
is like earlier today, Freddy said, you know, he's been
a runner all his life, and now he's facing this
knowing that the potential outcome could be difficult, but he's
still doing it. And I think that says something about him.
What do you think?
Speaker 6 (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely, I definitely feel like he's in a stage
of his life where he's kind of planning his roots
and he's kind of decided to be prevent and be
you know, more consistent than he has in the past.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
So I think that's a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Okay, cool, And what are you guys hoping we can
get accomplished in our conversation today?
Speaker 2 (09:55):
I'm hoping that you can put us in the direction
of a more positive direction, and for us to uh,
for us to capitalize on building a stronger relationship between
me and her and and and the rest of her
(10:16):
brothers and sisters and and and to unify the family bond.
I kind of I kind of like when she said that, Uh,
she doesn't think it's gonna be favorable with Jason, and
Jason could be sometimes And sometimes I'm a little stubborn too,
I think, Uh, I think that kind of uh twinkled
down to all my kids, you know what I mean. Uh,
(10:40):
in a way it's hard to like get them to
bounce back in a different direction. But uh, no matter
what the outcome is gonna be, He's he's always gonna
be my son, and I'm always gonna be able to
do anything in the world that I can to help
him or in that fashion. But I don't think it
could be no worse than what it is now, you
(11:03):
know what I mean, for us not to be talking.
So if he's talking that to me and cursing me
up of climbing one of the pegs on the ladder,
you know what I mean, we have a conversation, you
know what I mean. So that's that's I'm looking at
the outcome like that he had to get in. We had,
like I think, we had autiful friendship and sometimes therese
(11:25):
of that nature. They don't. They don't never disappear, you
know what I mean? Some love this don't never disappear.
We just hold back on the love is always there,
you know. So hopefully that uh you know, I shattered
that ice with him, not I just have to use
different avenues. If I can't get through the directly to him,
I just got to use a different avenue. So when
(11:46):
when whenever that avenue meets with him, the topic of
me will arise, you know what I'm saying, wherever he whoever,
so that my name would be mentioned, so he ain't
gonna be able to escape it, you know what I mean.
So uh, sooner, ladies gonna have to come, you know,
come around.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Okay, So if we can have a conversation today me,
you and Jay that continues to bring the family back together,
you'd be pleased extremely Yeah, okay, Jay, to ask you
your favorite question, what do you what do you hope
to get from talking today?
Speaker 3 (12:23):
I'm just gonna piggyback off of that one.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Yeah, I think that would be a great, a great
thing to achieve some you know, I'm being facetious, but seriously,
I do because as the oldest girl, I feel like
it's kind of my responsibility to try and connect with
with all the kids in some way and somehow bring
(12:45):
them together. I do think that our parents across the
board failed us in that aspect, as far as us
knowing each other and making it their business to make
sure that we have like had a relationship into our
you know, as we got older teenagers, young adults.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
But I get it.
Speaker 4 (13:07):
You know, everybody's living their lives in different parts of
the country and kind of doing their own thing. But
now that you know, we're older, now it's our responsibility
to decide if we want to have a relationship. And
there's you know, the grandchildren at this point, our present,
(13:27):
so they shouldn't have an opportunity to.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Know each other as well. I did reach out to
me just at one point.
Speaker 4 (13:33):
Asking her if we could all, you know, meet up
connect in some way. She seemed open to it and
kind of gently mention it to the other ones, but
really get no response.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
So I'll try again, you know, I'll.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
See if there's a way that we can all see
each other, see each other's faces. Like I saw Parrife
a few years back, and I was like the first
time I had seen him in I don't know how long.
So I think it would be a beautiful thing if
we could make that happen.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
What do you think it would mean for the family? Jay,
if you're able to make that happen. You said it's
a beautiful thing, but like, how would that make a
difference for the family, for you to be as one
of the oldest children, to take the rein and connect
all of that.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
I mean, I don't know if it would make a
difference for anybody else, but for me, there's a few
few things there. So the four my siblings that are
for my mother and my father same mother and father,
are not.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
A unified front at all.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
So I think it would be very unlikely that my
brothers would be involved.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
I mean, you know, with slid being enough and.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Are like, I don't know, he's it's iffy, Nah, it's
no relationship at all. So I feel like if I
can at least have a relationship with my other siblings
that it can kind of hopefully get us kind of
have of the next generation having a relationship as well,
(15:29):
and I think that, you know, we have to get
to a point where families are not so disjointed, like
nobody knows each other and nobody is you.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
Know, has a relationship.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
You know, there's like groups, like little mini groups, but
at the end of the day, we all share the
same the same bloodline.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
And I think that I just I just feel it's important.
Speaker 4 (15:54):
How come, because I've had a lot of friendships in
my life, and at the end of the day, my
family is what remains. And I still have friends and
I have, you know, people that I feel like I
always would be connected to, but you know, friendships can
(16:14):
kind of come and go, but at the end of
the day, it's family. You know that that same blood
is thicking on water, is right. It took me a
really long time to believe that, but I do believe
it now, and I do think it matters, and you know,
there's an opportunity that we should try.
Speaker 3 (16:36):
We should at least try now.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
You have said now twice, at least twice, how important
it was for the kids to know each other, like
the grandkids, right, Like, yeah, why do you think that matters?
Why is it so important to you that the next
generation of kids don't have the estrangement that you that
you're talking about you guys.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Having, because every generation before them is getting has got
it wrong.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
So at some point we got to break this. You know.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
I know people throw around this generational curse you know
phrase a lot, but for lack of a better phrase,
that at some point that curse has to be broken.
You know, every generation cannot be disconnected, and not not
to say that everything's going to be perfect.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
I don't expect that, but you know we can.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
We can know each other, we can talk to each other.
You know, my mother and her brother don't have a relationship.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
I know my father has relationship with his siblings to
a certain extent, but I don't know that is that tight.
So I just feel like, you know, every generation prior
has missed the ball in some way, and I think
it's important that we teach our children that, you know, relationship,
(18:00):
these relationships do have value and they are important. And
if not one else in the world is there for you,
the family will be.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
And I think we can create that bond and teach.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
That value system, then you know, our children won't ever
feel alone, They'll never feel.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Like they have.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
You know, they're always going to have their parents. But
you know, it's not just about your parents. You know,
there's the family is there. We come from a long
line of people, and we should know who those people
are and we should be connected to the truth of
those people.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Jane, what would it be like for you two? And look,
this stuff doesn't happen overnight, and I'm sure you've already
figured that out, But what would it be like for
you to contribute to breaking the family curse? What difference
did that make for you?
Speaker 4 (18:51):
You know, when I'm no longer here, I don't know
that my kids have other people that they can, you know,
feel connected to.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
And what do you know about your father that you
wish your siblings knew?
Speaker 4 (19:05):
I wish they knew that he is not who he
used to be. I wish they knew that that he
has fought the good fight and he's been able to
overcome a lot of obstacles, and that he he is
someone that they can rely on, someone that he can
(19:26):
they can talk to, and someone that you know, has
a wealth of knowledge to share and funny stories. And
you know, I think I think he's a He's he's
a pretty solid guy, like.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
You know what I mean, Like I don't hold.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Animosities towards him, so you know, I can see the
goodness of him, and I would want them to have
the opportunity to see that as well.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
I think that's really special about you. By the way, Jay,
how did you get to a point where you can
see I just think you said something so incredibly powerful.
He's not the man he used to be. How come
you could get to the point where you can see
that in him?
Speaker 3 (20:10):
Because he's shown me he has consistently over the last
four years. I would say, he's shown me that, you know.
Speaker 5 (20:24):
He he's available, he's here, he's present, and that he
you know, he wants to care.
Speaker 4 (20:36):
He wants to show that he cares. And I can
just see it, you know, And it's not, you know,
some pie in the sky. He's shown it to me.
He's already proven to me that that that's the thing,
that's the thing for him. So I don't have to
question it. I can see why his actions that you know,
(20:57):
he's serious about knowing me and knowing my family.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Man Freddy, she just said something, really, she said, he's
not the same man he used to be. You can
depend on him. You can rely on him. He's a
wealth of knowledge and information and you can talk to him.
She just said all of that.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
Wow, it's almost.
Speaker 7 (21:23):
Like, uh, fill this bucket up about me right now,
because you know some somethings that a hot woman uh
uh that this this fills your soul up, you know
what I mean?
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And I feel that Uh. I think like a lot
of people, that they remember the worst part about you, Yes, sir,
you know, they remember the evil things that you did,
you know what I mean. They don't They don't remember
the things that you're trying to make a missions for
or the things you're trying to to uh to correct
(21:59):
or or or to say you're sorry for Please forgive
me for all the things that I've done wrong to
you and you and your life, you know what I mean. Uh.
They don't open up their heart, they don't open up
their mind, they don't use They just hold on to
the bitterness, you know what I mean. And I think that, uh,
(22:20):
when you allow yourself to do that, you you could
be eating up away inside, you know what I mean.
All that this filters keep filtering out, and your whole
and your whole relationship with everybody, you know what I mean.
So you you gotta give a chance for a room
for forgiveness in your life for people, you know what
I mean. So if you see somebody trying to make
(22:41):
amends or trying to make a change in their life,
or have made a change in their life, and you're
not willing to accept them back or accept that, uh
to forgive them, then you know you hurting your own self,
you know what I mean? Because like life is too up, man,
life is way too short. The whole the whole animosity
(23:04):
or whole vengeance or her whole uh built on inside you.
You know what I mean. You got to release that, man.
You just gotta let it just float up in the atmosphere. Man,
you just gotta just let it go.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah, you know what I mean. Look, one of the
things I know about Jay is she's not very good
at bsing like she's going to tell you how she
feels about things. Would you say that's true about her?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Yeah, there's a lot of conversations that I had with her,
uh that the things that she said said to me
that would you know, hit the bullseye, you know what
I mean. You'd be like, sometimes you need somebody to
tell you the truth, man, you know what I mean,
not to beat around the bush with stuff, You know
what I mean, to be like straightforward like bang. You
(23:49):
know that's you know, it's like that. It's like that,
you know what I'm saying. Sometimes you have a conversation
with somebody and they just they just feeding back off
what you're saying, you know what I'm saying, And they
don't got they don't say nothing contradict you to what
you're saying. You know what I'm saying. That it's such
a show of agreement, you know what I mean. You
don't want to have a conversation with a person that
(24:09):
always gonna be yes, yes, yes, you know what I mean.
So when I when I talk to when I talk
to Jay, and she said, if I say something that
she thinks is wrong, she has no uh hesitation to say,
pop that ain't right.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Right, she has no problem that ain't right.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Not commend her for that because the fact that sometime
in your life, you know, you you you you don't
want to sit down with somebody that's gonna be a
you know, a yes man. Everything you said you got,
you know what I mean, like just to please you,
you know what I'm saying they don't. They don't mind
hurting your feelings a little bit, you know what I mean,
just just to put you in the right the right path,
(24:49):
and sometimes you feeling God to be gotta be hurt
a little bit to like yo, damn. You know that's
that's right, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, the reason the reason I say that is for
her to say what she said, He's not the same
man he used to be. He is dependable, he is reliable,
and he is someone you can talk to. You must
have done something to make her think that, because I'm
betting in your lowest worst moment, she would not have
(25:19):
said that. So for her to say that now, you
must have done something or some things plural that would
allow her to say that, Freddie, what do you think
you've done that would allow Jay to say what she
just said.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
I believe that sometime, you know, far as just to
be uh, being acceptable to the things in your life.
That's you know, sometimes people they'll sit back and watch,
you know what I mean, he gonna go right, he
going all right back into real thing. He ain't changed,
(25:58):
you know what I mean. So sometimes people don't don't
don't help you change, you know, they wait for you
to feel you know what I'm saying, They wait wait
for you fall on your face. You know what I'm saying.
Like with her, she gives you that help man, that
that helping the advice. You know what I'm saying. She
don't She's not waiting for you for the disaster. She's
trying to prevent the disaster. You know, I think a
(26:19):
lot of people just wait for you, you know, for you,
you know, for you to mess up. You know, they
feel more comfortable watching you and misery and watching you
being happy, you know what i mean. So that's her
whole heart. Her heart is so so so so developed
(26:40):
and in a way where she she always gives you
that helping hand. You know what I'm saying, Uh, helping advice,
you know what I mean, That encouragement. Sometimes somebody just
need a little bit of encouragement along the way of life,
you know what I mean. And see this type of
person will give you that when you're just about to tumble.
You know what I'm saying, She don't hold your hands
(27:01):
so you don't fall on your face.
Speaker 1 (27:03):
Yeah, she is all of those things. And I'm gonna
say something to her about that in a second. But
how did you conduct What did you do that helped
her start to view you in a different way.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I think a lot of things that I don't
I used to do in my life. I don't do
that at all, you know I don't. I don't fall
victim to a lot of things. Uh, I take a
responsibility sometimes. You know what I'm saying. You look for
their skate route, you know what I mean. And I'm
(27:39):
not looking for that skate roum no more. I'm finding,
you know, the right path to take in my life now,
you know what I'm saying. I'm not always looking for
the no longer looking for the way out or the quick, fast,
fixed way. You know what I mean. I'm in that fight,
you know, fight and fight hard, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (27:55):
And I.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
Enjoy my life now, you know what I mean, Like
when I see when I see my friends or I
see somebody that you still and life is so such
in a term oil, you know what I mean. You
know I can I can say to him, I said,
you know I was dead. I know how it is,
you know what I mean. I know, like that's just
(28:19):
a miserable life man to be ripping and running that day,
you know, after a dollar, after a drug or after
you know, after you know, anything that's not gonna be
uh favorable in your life, you know what I mean.
Just this just destroying you? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 (28:34):
What allowed you to be the kind of person like
I don't do the things I used to anymore and
I can now live my life on on this other path.
What allowed you to do that?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
Well?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I think that you know, you gotta face yourself, you
know what I mean. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta
make sure that you you're right, you know what I mean?
And life, because like, if you don't love yourself, nobody
else gonna love you. You know what I'm saying. You
don't care about the next day, if you live or die,
Nobody else gonna care if you live or die. You
know what I mean. If you don't care about your
own well being, anybody else ain't gonna care about your
(29:11):
well being. You know what I'm saying. You know what
I'm saying. So if you if you don't care, and
they see that you don't care about ship or nothing
to you know what, they be like, you don't have
that same sentimental They're gonna be like if you don't care,
to watch your care. You know what I mean. If
you don't love me, watch you'll love him. You know
what I mean. If we don't put forth as far
as like showing that initiative and life, well you care
(29:35):
and you you you you are available to somebody for
any thing in their life, you know what I'm saying.
If it ain't just to walk to somebody, actually walk
to the store time, somebody could ask you to walk
to go to the store form you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
It's not always the biggest thing in life that you
could do with somebody. Might just be that little thing
that to stay hard, you know what I mean. So,
and I'm coming to terms with those things in life
where I'm open. I'm acceptable to everybody else's well being,
you know what I mean, not only mine.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
We'll be right back with more family therapy. When did
you realize you could do it? Freddie? When did you
realize you could turn things around?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
Well, it wasn't exactly an earth shadow, mean an event
that happened in my life that made me change change myself.
I just got down on my knees one day and
asked God to give me the strength to be a
better man. To serve not only him, but to serve
mankind and a positive aspect of life.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Freddie, Freddie, hold on, I'm gonna stop you real quick.
Did you just say, Jay, did you hear what your
dad just said? Freddy? Did you just say it wasn't
an earth shattering event. I just got down on my
knees and asked God to give me the strength to
change my life. Did you just say that that sounds
like an earth shattering moment to me? You said it
(31:15):
was an earth shatter event. I just got down on
my knees and ask God to help me be a
better man. And apparently, as evidenced by the things Jay
has said, God answered that prayer. And you're gonna tell
me that's not an earth shattering event.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, you know, because like I'm not saying like as
far as like it is, because you know, uh, his
accomplishments is always you know, sometimes it could be the
smallest thing, uh to you, and that's all you need
is that's that's that that little touch of that little
(31:51):
light at the end of the tunnel, you know what
I mean. Ain't gotta be a big flash or big
like a irene your atomic bomb going off. Could this
be that little, that little touch of encouragement that he
filled me with. AND's like, yo, you know, because I
you know, I you know, like I said, I ain't
(32:12):
think I was gonna be twenty five years old, you
know what I mean. The way the way my life
was going, man, twenty five was it was it.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
I couldn't even foresee it, you know what I mean.
I really couldn't foresee you because like my life had
been taken away from me so many times, you know
what I mean, by me being in the streets and
by me doing silly, stupid things, you know what I mean.
I used to I used to even do things that
what caused me to die, you know what I mean,
(32:45):
just to prove my manhood approved that you know, I ain't,
I ain't scared, you know what I mean. And I
look back at those things that I did. Man, what
the hell was wrong with you? You know what I mean?
What was on your What in the world you was
thinking about? You know what I mean? So you know,
I thank God for me being here now, like reaching that,
(33:08):
I mean, reach sixty five, you know what I mean.
I want to have a have a have a party.
I'm hoping that that that'll come to effect, you know
what I mean, and hopefully that everybody would attend. As
far as my family and kids, cousins, you know, I
(33:28):
really like more of like be a family thing a
guy and than like more than a social work affair,
you know what I mean. As far as like my
uncle's aunts, you know, cousins, you know, especially you know,
my grandkids. You know what I mean. I'm kind of
looking forward to because like I didn't, I never look
forward to celebrating the birthday, you know what I mean. Uh,
(33:52):
I was just like living minute to minute out out,
you know what I mean, And what kind of life
is that? The half of and and being that don't
really value their own life, you know what I mean,
So you gotta come to self, you know, preservation Like
I'm him, I'm gonna be sixty five is a joyful
(34:14):
event for me now, you know what I mean. You know,
it's monumental to me now, so it's accomplished. It's something
I would never if I was twenty four years old
and somebody asked me, what are you gonna do when
you sixty five? I said, man, I'll be like I'll
be blown away because I think I would never make
it to sixty five?
Speaker 1 (34:33):
When is your sixty fifth birthday actually in August? In August?
Did you ever think, and I want you to think,
really honestly, think back to your lowest moment. You're incarcerated,
you ain't talk to any of your kids, and however
long did you ever think that one of your kids
would describe you as dependable, easy to talk to, a
(34:55):
wealth and knowledge, and reliable. Do you ever think in
that low moment, man, when did you do you ever
think one of your kids would say that? And not
just one of your kids, but like one of your
honest you know, Jay is not someone to just say
random stuff. If she said one of the things I've
learned about Jay, and Jay correct me if I'm wrong.
But if Jay says it, she means it. That's how
(35:15):
Jay is like. She doesn't just talk. If Jay spoke it,
she meant what she said. And she described you in
those four ways. Reliable, dependable, He's not the man who
used to be wealth and knowledge, easy to talk to.
Did you, when you were in your lowest moment, did
you ever think one of your children will describe you
in that way?
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Not at all, not one bit. I think in my
lowest moment in my life that that would never have
crossed my mind, you know what I mean, for as
far as one of my kids to be let's say
something like that, you know what I mean, because it
would be extremely outrageous, you know what I mean. Sometimes
you can't you can't buy love, You can't buy a verse,
(36:00):
well spoken word about somebody. You can't buy that, you
know what I'm saying. And you can't produce that from
somebody unless it's real, you know what I mean. If
it ain't real, it's gonna it's never gonna be manufactured
like that, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
So one of the things I'm thinking is Jay has
this really big goal. I'm not sure she knows how
big it is, but Jay's got this really big ambition
to like and I think the way she phrased it
was to break the family curse. Jay, Did I catch
that right? And like bring the family back together so
(36:40):
that the children can grow up knowing their family. How
can you help Jay do that? Freddie? What could be
your role in helping Jay to accomplish changing the legacy
within the family.
Speaker 2 (36:52):
Well, I believe my purpose in that or try to
an influence or we'll share with uh the families and
and and and make sure that they realize that it's
time for the family to have the real capital f
on it. You know what I mean, really spelled each
(37:15):
and every everybody's heart. You know what I'm saying, because we,
like she said, our family, we we Everybody is in
their own world, you know what I mean. Everybody doing
their own thing. You know what I mean, with their
own little clique, you know what I mean. And that's
their family. You know what I'm saying, and what you know,
it's it's not extremely wrong, but the family is much
(37:37):
bigger than this one one son and one daughter, you
know what I mean. His cousins is, his sisters and
brothers and grandkids. You know what I mean. I don't
think we ever had a family reunion where everybody went
bought T shirts, you know what I mean, Like I
don't I don't believe that we ever had one of
(37:58):
something like that. It's something that we should we should
always should look forward to, you know what I mean,
if somebody could just like initiate something like that and
put forth an effort to make it happy, you know
what I mean. I mean, like you know, to bite
down on you know, you know, and make it happy.
Twenty twenty people show it up. Maybe the next time
(38:20):
fifty people show up. Sometimes word of mouth carries a
lot of weight, especially like while I was at the
family re union and they said, woll you ain't come?
Ain't you family? You know what I mean? Sometimes you
know you got you know, hit below the bell.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
When I talk to the two of you, I just
feel so much love. And Jay, can I there's something
I want to say to you about what you're trying
to accomplish and said, all right, can I share something
with you and give you a suggestion maybe even advice
if I could use that word. You are capable of
so much love and this is an act of love
(38:57):
to be able to bring the family together. And the
way you're describing and Freddy just said something that really
stuck out to me, Like, you know, maybe the first
time you do something, maybe a few people show up.
And I'm thinking, like I think your job, as you
reach out to your siblings like you would talking about earlier,
is just to invite them into this space, like invite
(39:21):
them into this dynamic that you have created with Freddie
and help them experience him the way you experience him,
and if they accept that invitation, great, but if not,
just keep doing it because one of the things I
know is love is a very powerful and contagious thing.
Like eventually people are going to be like, hey, what's
going on over there? And they eventually kind of attract
(39:46):
to it. But the dynamic you're creating between you and
your children and your father's slash their grandfather is a
very powerful thing. And I'm not I wonder if you
were aware of its power. And you can't make all
the siblings see it, but you can cultivate it and
(40:11):
nurture it to the point where the siblings start asking
about it, like what's going on over there? And then
before you know it, one or two of them show up,
and before you know it, they bring their kids, and
before you know what I mean, like, you create the
environment where it flourishes. You can't make them come, but
you can just cultivate it to the point where everybody
wants to be a part of it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Yes? Absolutely? I think I guess we're not ready. We're
not quite ready for like.
Speaker 4 (40:36):
You know, the T shirts yet, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
I do think on a small scale.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
We can certainly start, you know, with those who are
willing and let it build from there.
Speaker 3 (40:53):
For sure, absolutely, and I'm willing to do that.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
You're the right person at the right time to change
the whole family legacy.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
I think I can do that, I guess for me though,
for for Pops, I think the biggest part that you
could play is to show up for them the way
you show up for me, because and to continue to try,
you know, because they're not going to see you the
way I see you, and it may take some time
to get there. It may take some time to get there,
(41:23):
and that's okay, and we may never get there with everybody,
but you know, we start with what we can and
we take it from there.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
I just want to go back to something you said.
I want to make sure we hit this. You said,
one of the ways he can help you is to
show up for them the way he shows up for you. Now, right,
some of your siblings may make it harder for him
to show up than you did. How do you want
your dad to respond to that? Like, if one of
(41:54):
your siblings makes it, you know, just not easy for him, right,
How would you like to see your father how would
like to see him respond to it when it's not easy.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
To be patient? You know, you just got to be
patient and keep that fighting spirit. You know. I think that.
Speaker 4 (42:11):
The way you describe your relationship with Jason, I don't
it may be just as challenging with some of the
other children. So you just got to keep trying and
just keep trying and not like not let it go
because I don't think it's going to be easy. But
you know, it hasn't been easy for us to not
(42:32):
have you present. So it's not you know, tit for tat,
but it is what it is.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
You know, you know what Jay like, it's not really
fair for him to expect easy, is it? Like it
wasn't easy for you guys. He's got to go through
some hard too. And I don't and I don't mean
like payback with t for TAT like you were saying,
but like, it is what it is.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
When you haven't been present or consistent, this is the result.
And it's just like need any If water in the plant,
it's gonna flourish, it's gonna it's gonna live, But if
you start watering it, it's gonna die. And hopefully you
know the relationships with each one is not dead to
a point that it can't be revived. But it's gonna
need some sun, it's gonna need some some attention. It's
(43:15):
gonna need a little bit of care, and hopefully, you know,
you'll be able to get there. I would love for
you to grow old knowing that we You know, when
you're eighty ninety years old, you can sit back and
be like, I tried.
Speaker 3 (43:27):
My best with all of them. You know, once I
once I changed, I allowed my children to know who
I am now.
Speaker 1 (43:34):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's I mean, that's beautiful. Jay Like
and Freddy. I want you to hear her. They had
to go through something hard, so damn it, you do too.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Already. No, the pining that I probably put them through
is layered up, you know. So if I break that
layer down today, I got a chance to break another
layer down the mall. So by the time Tuesday come,
I'm working on another layer. So I know, like it's
(44:05):
not gonna just the minute, just that quickly, because it
been built up for so many years, you know what
I mean. I think with my daughter, and I think
I was in there. I was in there with her
to the point where my kids was calling me on FaceTime.
You know, they knew who they knew who their papa was.
(44:28):
And then I think, I think I started lacking again,
you know what I mean. I started off again, you
know what I mean. I wasn't constant with it, you know,
and then I go back into their life. Then I
build back up again, then I lack again, you know
what I mean. I gotta be more persistent at it
(44:53):
all the time, you know, not just a spot there,
a spot there. They gotta be in a and you
as basis, you know what I mean. And I think
that's the problem with her, you know what I mean,
because like once you you know, you make it, develop
something with it with somebody, and you keep pulling back again.
(45:14):
It's hard for them to let you, let you for
them let you back in because they think they're gonna
I'm gonna fall out again, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
That is so important because I know for me, like
I don't I don't do like I'm at that point
in my life. I don't do people who are inconsistent wet.
We don't do that around here, right, So absolutely though,
don't do that for my children. If you're gonna be
a part of their lives. You're gonna be a part
of their lives. If you're not gonna be it, then
(45:41):
you know, go, you know, do your thing. But there's
no inconsistency there. And Diana, like me, I'm a mother
and she's a mother, and she probably feels the same way, like, nah,
you're gonna if you're gonna be here, you're gonna have
to be here because you're not gonna be pop pops sometimes,
you know what I mean, Like this is this is
not just a title. There's responsibility that comes with that.
(46:04):
So hopefully you know what I'm saying. She she'll be
open as you know, as things move forward.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
But there's definitely not gonna be easy. But you gotta
be you.
Speaker 4 (46:16):
Gotta be serious about that part. You know, you set
a calendar thing. Maybe you just know that you got
to go down the list and call every single.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Kid once a week, you know what I mean. He's
let that two hours to the side. You got a
lot of kids though, so you might need three hours.
I don't know, but you know, you might.
Speaker 4 (46:32):
Just have to set that time to the side where
you say, this is what I do at this time
every week, once a week, you know, what I'm saying,
and I think that might help you know.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
But Freddy, I asked Jay, if you would have asked
me right now, is what is Jay's biggest ambition? I
would think it would be to break this family curse?
And I asked her what does she need from Freddy
to help her? And she gave a three word answer.
Do you know what that three word answer was? She
said it a couple of times. Actually, do you know
(47:05):
what it was? Did you catch it? Being consistent, keep
showing up, That's what she said. She said it a
couple of times, being consistent, being consistent, keep showing up.
That's what she needs from you, because then the other
siblings are going to see in you what she sees
(47:25):
in you. And that's how families heal. I genuinely believe
that there's nothing families can't get through together. It just
might take some time, but you have to keep showing up.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
When I call somebody and they don't answer, or they
don't pick up or go straight to voicemail, it used
to bother me a great deal, you know what I meant.
I used to get defensive about it, you know what
I mean? But did I realize it was my own
full you know what I mean. I was the one
that established that feeling with that out or with that person,
(48:01):
the only one who made the situation in the way
it is, you know what I mean. So I don't
I don't get I don't get like to turd by
it anymore. I mean, like, okay, it ain't go too
favorble this time. You know, if I call you four
or five times and you still have an answer, you
know I caused you know what I mean? You know
(48:23):
I made an attempt. You know what I mean. Then
one day, definitely they're gonna pick up the phone and
voice their opinion voice they are they way they feeling,
and I gotta suck it up like a sponge, you know,
because I caused it the way they feel.
Speaker 1 (48:38):
One of the ways I want you to think about
this is your children aren't mad at you. They're mad
at who you used to be. They just don't know
that that's now different. Jay knows. So if you the
reason why Jay wants you to keep showing up is
she knows something very important. She knows that who you
(48:59):
are and who you used to be aren't the same person.
And if you keep showing up, then everybody will see that,
But right now, not all the kids see that. They
don't all know that who he is and who he
used to be aren't the same. So I want you
to remember that they're not mad at you today. They're
mad at who you used to be. They just don't
know that who you are today is different. And if
(49:20):
you keep showing up, they will learn that in the
same way that Jay has. Because Jay now describes you
as reliable, dependable, a wealth of knowledge, who is good
to talk to. That's how she talks about you today.
I'll bet you fifteen years ago that's not what she said,
but that's what she says now. Let everyone else in
(49:43):
the family recognize, Oh, this guy is different.
Speaker 3 (49:47):
I think it's also.
Speaker 4 (49:50):
You know, if they ever hear this, I would want
to express to them you can't hold on to what
you want your parents to be. You have to be
able to see them for the human they are right now,
right and not even.
Speaker 3 (50:08):
Just as a father figure. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (50:12):
I think a lot of the challenges I had when
I was younger is like I had this expectation or
what a dad should be, what a mom should be,
and then as I got older, I just kind of
let it go, and I just say, you know what,
I'm gonna let them be who they are, and then
I'm gonna understand take the moment to understand who they
are and adjust accordingly. So I just hope that they
(50:36):
will have, you know, be able to get to a
point where they just say, you know what, I'm going
to let him be who he is and accept and
be accepting of that and try to establish a relationship
based on the truth.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
Of who he is, not the image that I want
him to be right.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
And it turns out who he is is not so bad.
Who he was was in by alcohol, drugs, the streets.
Who he is is actually a pretty reliable, dependable, loving,
caring guy. Ye but she but Jay can't show you
(51:16):
off to the siblings unless you keep showing up so
they get to see that. Freddy. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Great deal?
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yeah? Do lie? Yo?
Speaker 2 (51:33):
Listen, Freddy.
Speaker 1 (51:40):
Show her that she's right, because she's right.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
That's my first ambition and in my life is to
show her she absolutely right.
Speaker 3 (51:49):
Right.
Speaker 1 (51:56):
Generational trauma is defined as trauma that is passed down
from one generation to the next. This is very very
relevant in the black community. The first trauma, being slavery,
and all of the things that happen in coping with
such trauma, drinking, Like, there are lots of things that
happen in the context of that issue poverty. I mean,
(52:21):
there's a lot of trauma that gets passed down. So
how do we recognize it? I think we all know
kind of what's good for us and what we should
be doing that that is in our best interest, and
you've got to be willing to break the pattern. And
breaking a pattern is really really hard because whether it's
(52:42):
a good habit or a bad habit, whether it's a
good pattern or a bad pattern, we all rely on
the patterns. So when you do something that is outside
of the pattern, even if good, the system will have
a response to try to keep you in line with
the previously held pattern. So the pattern breaker has to
be a very strong and resilient person and understand that
(53:05):
they're going against the system and the system will push back.
So the best way to know whether you're dealing with
a generational trauma or not is to rely on your
instincts that tell you what is good for you and
what is not and follow the path of the things
that are good for you. And understand the system is
going to push back, and you fight that pushing. The
(53:27):
other really beautiful thing is you don't even have to
fully understand the trauma. That's actually not the goal and
it's not the point. Your job is to get fully
committed to creating a new pattern and understanding it's going
to be hard. Stay tuned for my final thoughts after
this as it relates to change. In how to recognize change,
(53:56):
I read a quote in a book many many years
ago that says a change is only a change if
it's noticed whenever someone has caused you harm and someone
close to you like a parent or a partner or
something best friend. Change is also really scary because you
also don't know if you can trust it. So the
(54:20):
number one thing I would like to say about this
topic is the way to notice change is to look
for it and understand it's going to take a risk. Now,
I'm not asking you to experience harm while someone is changing,
but I am saying if it's one of those relationships
like we only get one mom and one dad, like
(54:42):
some of these relationships are so close that they're worth
the risk, and actually having those people out of your
life causes even more harm. So with someone like Freddy
who is trying, just take the opportunity to look and
see evidence of the change. Maybe you'll see something, maybe
(55:03):
you won't, But if you look for it, then you
give yourself the opportunity to experience something new, different in healing.
If you don't see it, then continue to have a
boundary against that person. But if you do see it,
it'll change your life and change theirs in a monumental way.
And I think that's worth it, worth it, worth it.
It's important to ask yourself different questions on your healing journey.
(55:25):
For the next few weeks, I will ask you a
question at the end of each episode to hopefully inspire
your inner superhero. This week, I want you to ask yourself,
given that forgiveness is the greatest gift that you will
ever give yourself, who in your family's lineage needs the
most forgiving, even if that person is no longer with us.
(55:47):
I want you to look back, who in your family's
lineage needs the most forgiving and if you are able
to achieve that forgiveness, what difference would it make to
that person and to yourself. This is not just a
podcast that I want you to consume and be entertained
by I actually want you to be inspired. I want
(56:07):
you to be impacted by this, and in fact, we
can't help but be impacted by the content we consume.
So what I would like for you to do is
come on this healing journey with us. Come on this
journey of change rediscovery with us. And the way to
do that is to just pay attention to the things
going on in your life as a consequence of listening
(56:30):
to this podcast. Pay attention to things in your life
shifting in a more desirable way. Pay attention to your
desirable outcome becoming your reality. Pay attention to evidence of
your success, your resilience, and your strength. And let us
know in the comments what you're noticing in your life
as a result of listening to this podcast and as
a result of paying attention to these things. I would
(56:53):
love to hear from you about your healing journey, your family,
and your feedback. Leave a review, send a DM, connect
me on socials at Elliott Speaks, and you can also
send me a text message to nine seven two four
two six two six four zero. Family Therapy is a
production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect Podcast Network. Special
Thanks to our assistant, Glendale Seppe. It's produced by Jack
(57:15):
Queish Thomas and the executive producer Dolly S.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
S Fisher.
Speaker 1 (57:19):
For more podcasts from The Black Effect, visit the iHeartRadio
app or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The
content presented on The Family Therapy podcast serves solely for
educational and informational purposes. It should not be considered a
replacement for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does
not constitute a provider patient relationship. It is advisable to
consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any
(57:41):
specific concerns or questions you may have.
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