August 5, 2021 • 42 mins
Dina Demetrius is a celebrated news anchor that’s worked at ABC, KCET (PBS affiliate) and Al-Jazeera and is now working at CBS. Dina Spoke with David about the changing dynamics in cable news and the problems facing California.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit today.
I'm joined by someone from our profession. We have a
shared profession, which is journalism, which some people call the
fastest disappearing white collar profession in the world. None other
(00:22):
than Dina Demetrius Marius. I believe it is in Greek.
How are you doing today, Dina, Greetings from Florida to
Sunny l A. Well, greetings to you two from Sunny
l A to Florida. Thanks for having me. So what
is it like to be a journalist? I know I
could talk about this at length, but you have that
(00:42):
same war paint on your face that I do. Talk
about a difficult field. Tell me about your experience, so
you know, it is a roller coaster to say the least.
I mean, I think that it is one of the
most um satisfying and amazing jobs that somebody can have.
(01:05):
It is also deeply difficult at times, and um it
is becoming increasingly so, I think in a lot of ways,
both financially for individual journalists, um, both in terms of
the time and the resources that you're allotted to do
the kind of journalism that you want to do, and
if your freelances. More and more journalists are becoming That
(01:28):
is a whole other level of of up and down
that you're needing to deal with in terms of the
types of stories that you're pitching to various news organizations,
the financial sustainability of that. So there's a lot going
on in journalism right now and for journalists as individuals
in terms of making their way and continuing to do
(01:50):
the work that they love to do that. Honestly, I
feel like a lot of us have a calling to do. Yeah,
I feel like I didn't really have a choice but
to enter this field. Obviously, I was well aware of
the financial challenges, but every type of personality test I
took revealed politician or journalists. So I heard on the
side of journalism, what was your adventure to journalism? Like,
(02:15):
how did you wake up one day and say, Wow,
I'm just a glutton for punishment. I want to make
my life difficult yet very satisfying. As you said, Well,
you know, I'm I'm generation X. So it wasn't necessarily
a thought of this is going to be a difficult road,
and you know, honestly, there have been times when it's
(02:35):
been wonderful and pretty easy. And other times when it's
been more challenging. So again it's you know, it's it's
a back and forth in that way. But as a child,
I was really um. I had a news had an
impact on me. Watching television. News was really affecting me.
And my parents weren't the type of parents, you know,
the Greek immigrants. It's like whatever is on TV, okay,
(02:57):
if we're watching it, you're watching it too. And so
I wasn't she fielded from the news of the day,
you know, like I think a lot of parents are
doing that now and I understand why, but I wasn't shielded.
So these these stories and an impact on me. And
I was a storyteller from the time I could speak.
I was always telling stories to my younger brother and sister.
(03:18):
I was telling a story, you know. That was who
I was from the very beginning. And so um I thought, well,
if I'm going to be a storyteller, I want to
tell real people's stories. I want to be able to
have the type of impact on people that this um
information and these types of stories have had on me
growing up. And on top of that, you know, and
(03:38):
you may realize it's too from your family history My
parents are immigrants from Greece on first generation, and so
I was surrounded by their stories, not just their immigration stories,
but also their stories of living in occupied Greece during
the Nazi occupation and what that was like for them
as little children and growing up, and so all these
(04:01):
stories around me having to do with current events and
people's lives really really mattered to me. So at some
point in my early teenage years, I decided, well, maybe
journalism is for me. And I was lucky enough to
have a television station in my high school. We took television.
I was able to take television classes. We had a
(04:23):
we had a you know, a TV station in their
community station, and so I started my own news magazine
show from the time I was sixteen and hosted and
produced it and and everything. And so launched myself that
way and went to college and then afterwards went to Washington,
d C. To work as a journalists. So you've tackled
(04:44):
some pretty tough issues, which you know, I think that
comes with the hardness of having an immigrant family, right.
We come from war torn regions, you know, the hard
scrabble upbringing. You're kind of able to face head on
things like and I'm seeing he or my notes. You know,
mental illness and prisons, fracking, you know, workers rights. These
(05:05):
are touchy, complicated issues to break down for any audience,
never mind on video. You need to have you need
to have a background of steel, you know, to to
tackle those. Yeah, for sure. How do you channel people
stories without seeming seeming biased because that seems to be
a big challenge in today's media landscape. Yeah, um you
(05:29):
know that that has become quite a topic and it
is difficult sometimes. My when I approach a story, I'm
not approaching it from the point of view of am
I telling all the sides or am I including this
person's opinion and that person's opinion. My goal is always
(05:50):
I'm trying to find the truth. I'm trying to understand
what the facts are so that, um I can let
people know that this is how this particular or issue
is going to impact their lives or is impacting their
lives um at this time. So I don't I don't
think about it too much in terms of a political bias.
(06:13):
I think of it in terms of what is what
is the question we're trying to answer? So with fracking, right,
I mean, there are political their political opinions on both
sides of that particular issue. My question in pursuing that
fracking investigation as an example, is is is fracking actually
happening in California? And the state regulator had absolutely no
(06:36):
idea why because they weren't asking the question in the
oil forms that oil companies were filling out to find
out if they were if the types of methods that
they were using included fracking, So they had absolutely no idea.
People need to know if fracking is happening in their area.
That's whe the environmental concerns that people have. So it's
(06:58):
not a matter of political lies. It's a matter of
trying to find out what is actually happening, what the
truth is, what the facts are, and allowing people to
make that that decision themselves in terms of which way
they fall in the political spectrum with regard to that issue.
But Dina, you bring up an important issue right which
there are a lot of stories out there, never mind
(07:20):
political bias. Your it is just lack of process, a
need you know, a cause. Why does everything seem to
be just an outrage factory these days, specifically tailored for
left or right wing audiences and everything seems to have
a political bent. But as you've mentioned, stories are stories.
They don't really have politics. Well, they have politics in
(07:42):
the sense that they they impact people's lives, and so
you're going to be making a decision one way or
another with regard to the issue. But you don't have
to approach the telling of that story from a political angle, right.
You have to approach it, I think, and the way
I've done it, from a human angle. This is affecting
all humans. It doesn't matter if fracking is happening next
(08:03):
to somebody who's Republican or next to somebody who's Democrat.
It is still happening, and you need to make your
own political decision about what that means for you. The
reason why I think there's so much outrage at this
point is because that is what's driving social media, that
is what's driving the online um news forums, and so
(08:25):
people are you know, this has been talked about endlessly
click bait, right, so you're looking at a headline it's
meant to be outrageous. Some people who are into that
outrage will click on it, and so they'll you know,
they'll get advertising eyes on it, and and that's what
drives that particular form of news. But to me, there's
(08:47):
an ever greater divide between what we're calling news and
what we're calling journalism. Those two words used to be synonymous,
they used to be interchangeable, and I think that's that's
becoming the case because of what you're saying, because of
you know, these outrage headlines that are meant to, you know,
just make people click on it, and and it doesn't
(09:10):
matter what the outcome really is. It's just meant to
generate anger. And that's what it's doing on both sides
of the aisle. Does it ever, just kind of burn
out and create a point where for people just want
zero opinion journalism or news or information. Yeah, absolutely, it
(09:32):
causes burned out, and and we've been seeing it, I think,
particularly in this past year and a half and we've
been dealing with the pandemic, people have just I think
a lot of people have just had it. I'll tell
you have a cousin who is pretty middle of the
road in in the Midwest, in Illinois, who you know,
sort of messaged me in the beginning of the pandemic
(09:52):
and said, I just I can't take this anymore. I
don't know who to believe I don't know what to do.
Who do you suggest I look to for news? And
so I gave my opinion on places that I think
do really good journalism, and I gave him some options.
And I also told him, look at this website media
(10:12):
bias fact checker dot com. They're gonna you know, that's
what they do. They'll tell you, you know, are they
fact checking? Are they promoting conspiracy theories? And so on?
For all the different news organizations that there are. And
so that's something that I think an audience needs to
take upon themselves is ask the trusted journalists. I'm a
trusted journalist to my cousin. So he asked me, and
(10:35):
I gave him my opinion on that these are these
are people who these are journalists who are vetted, who
know how to vet information, who know how to vet
people that they're interviewing, and and that is critical to
understanding and getting the right um, getting the right information
on a variety of topics. So you're freelancing these days
(10:55):
for CBS, which I think is the gold standard in
mainstream media. And I'm not just saying that because you
work for them. Yeah, No, I'm not just saying that too,
because I work for them. Yeah, they're great. Yeah. So
from a journalist standpoint, like if I had to watch TV,
I would probably be more likely to watch CBS and
the competitors. Um, so what do you think that CBS
(11:18):
does better than the competitors. I would think that it's
really present more information in a more fulsome fashion instead
of just random sound bites. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's that. UM.
You know, look, a lot of a lot of news
organizations will do that as well. I think it's a
matter also of UM having a particular ethos within the company,
(11:40):
within the news organization itself. Look, you're you're going to
you're going to take on the characteristics of the people
you surround yourself with. And I have found UM the
people I've started working with CBS to be people journalists
of integrity, who are interested in telling stories that matter
(12:03):
to people and UM and their journalism process is is
there and it's solid and it's filled with integrity. That's
not always the case because of in part because of
the speed that news travels and so things sort of
get pushed under the rug. They're not done as thoroughly
(12:25):
as they need to be. But UM, for for other
news organizations, that's not the case. And CBS, I think
you're right, is at the top of that. UM, they're
just people of integrity and their journalists who are trained,
and that is a big deal. Just because an organization
has the word news in it doesn't mean it's providing
you but journalism and that's and and that's something to
(12:47):
really think about. What are some of the stories you've
been working on lately for as the CBS freelancer, you
focus on the Los Angeles area? Is that correct? Well, yes,
it comes out of southern California. And and I'm working
(13:10):
for Newspath, which is the part of CBS News which
provides UM stories national stories for all the different CBS
stations around the country so that they can incorporate them
into their local newscasts. And a lot of the stories
have been medical stories. They've been consumers stories, UM, what
travel has been like, UM now that the delta variant
(13:32):
has really you know, emerged, UM RV shortages, medical stories
about double transplants for a teenager, UM, the latest on
covid um studies and so on. So there's a lot
of that. They're pretty they're relatively sure compared to what
I'm used to reporting UM, but they're great, and they're
(13:54):
very they're very timely, and they're very useful to people
UM who are watching cities stations around the country, So
they're they're really great stories. So you worked for other
other organizations like Al Jazeera and other nonprofits as well.
What was that like? You know, I really love the
(14:16):
stories that I was doing UM, that had been able
to do for k c T, which is a PBS
station here in Los Angeles, and for Al Jazeera America,
and that was around UM. And the reason is that
pretty much anything I pitched that UM needed to be
deeply investigated was something that they would love for me
(14:38):
to do, and I was able to do that. So
I had the ability and the resources to be able
to investigate issues, to dive deeply into social justice stories
and UM and really tell them from different perspectives because
I had the time, both in terms of the length
of the story and the length of the process, to
(15:00):
to research the story, to incorporate as many voices as
I thought were needed in there. So those are really
great times. Yeah, I don't think people understand though the
life of a journalist. I was a local reporter myself,
and the demand for stories and good stories always exceeded
our bandwidth to cover them. And now we see a
(15:21):
lot of news deserts in the country, especially at the
local level. Has that been lost permanently or do you
think that there's ever going to be a way to
bring back that tradition of strong journalism, especially at the
local level. I really hope so, David, because you're right,
it is heartbreaking every time I see the another local
newspaper has shut down because they're out of money, they
(15:43):
can't hire, you know, they can't keep their their reporters.
It's really it's really terrible. It breaks my heart for
the journalists involved. And it breaks my heart for that
community because they don't have anyone to tell their stories.
They don't have anyone to hold the elected people around
them accountable. And so that is a huge part of journalism,
(16:06):
is actually a pillar of journalism to hold um those
empower accountable. And so yeah, there are many many news
deserts around. What I hope is that maybe people in
those communities will gather, the journalists there will gather and
create nonprofits for themselves to tell stories um from a
(16:29):
hyperlocal level in that way, and that we see that
starting to happen over the past five years. But I
think some really great journalism is happening at a nonprofit level.
Pro Publica is a fantastic example of that. They do
amazing investigations, They tell fantastic stories that I think everybody
should be reading. And there are nonprofit The nineteen News
(16:53):
is another nonprofit news room, so I think it might
be heading in that direction at least I hope so
as another way to to grow those newsrooms again in
areas where they've just just been decimated. Well, I run
a nonprofit news brand exactly for that, because margins are
so low and advertising skews so much of your editorial
(17:16):
mission that it becomes easier to run nonprofits. And so
I'm going to steal your pitch there, Dina. I saw
this crazy bumper sticker on the way back from South
Carolina a few days ago. It said defund the media,
which doesn't even make any sense. But let's put that aside. Right, Yeah,
trust in the media is at an all time low, right,
(17:39):
and we I mean, I'm sure Congress is less trusted,
but you know, we're basically on par with proctologists appointments
and you know, you know something, you know, cleaning out
your septic tank, you know, so stuff that is very unpleasant.
How did we get here? I don't know. It makes
(17:59):
me said, um, well, how did we get here? Uh?
You know, there are there are companies there are creating
news rooms that are not telling the news. So, um,
that's that's a big thing. So now then you've got
one one side of you know, the political spectrum doing that,
(18:21):
and then it gets countered by the other side. And
then there's this tip for tap between the right and
the left in terms of really you know, struggling to
get those eyeballs, and and it just becomes you know,
a tug of war and and a fight that you see,
you know, between kids on the street. It's really disheartening
(18:43):
in a lot of ways. Um, but that I can
tell you, I mean, and you may and you may
know this too from from your own experiences. Um, as
a journalist. The vast majority of the journalists I know
are really doing a yeoman's job at trying to tell
the stories that they think are important for their community
(19:04):
and for the nation. And you know, maybe globally, if
that's the level that they're working at, this is really
a calling for them, and so it's really sad that
they're getting swept up in the corporate tip for tat
that UM is really decimating the political discourse and the
(19:27):
social discourse in this country and frankly around the world. UM,
And they're getting swept up in that. And but they're
part of those organizations anyway. So UM. Again, I think
the nonprofit route is a great way to counter that.
But I do think that there are organizations, news organizations.
You know, Look, I'll just say it. A PBS News
(19:49):
Hour I think is a great program, CBS News is great,
MPR is great. There are news organizations that I hope
audiences will gravitate toward more two um and support them
with their eyeballs, UM, so that they really they really
get better journalism out of this and fill their heads
(20:11):
in there and their hearts with with real stories that
matter and not and not support stuff that that is UM,
you know, tearing things down. Well, I'm gonna pick on
one outlet. So I grew up, like you did, know,
I'm not that much younger than you, idolizing CNN of course,
Cable News Network, right, And there was this they had
this you know, reputation for being this, you know, unbiased,
(20:36):
straight news, the best journalist. It was always my dream
to work at CNN, right, And suddenly they got on
this whole outrage machine and the punditry and the really
stepped outside of their brand mission. And basically these days
CNN doesn't resemble what it used to be. For better
(20:56):
or for worse, maybe some people like it now, it's
just from an outside person effective. It seems like they
really built their brand around Trump, and now that Trump's gone,
they're kind of struggling to find their way in terms
of how they can make any money and kind of
have you know, a mission. Yeah, well I think, you know,
(21:20):
I think they're seeing themselves. Look, I had I had
many many years ago an interview with um with the
bureau chief of Fox News here in l a national
the network, and you know, we were having a discussion
over well, are you actually incorporating people from the other
side in the stories when you say it's balanced, you know,
(21:42):
as they were actually balanced within the story. And his
response to me is noring, we see ourselves as a
balance to all the other liberal media. And I said, well,
you know, I don't think this is going to be
a good fit this is not you know, how I
approach a story. I think that's what you're seeing now
(22:03):
with some of what's going on at seeing that. I
think their investigative work in their daily stories and the
journalists who are working in the field are still providing
excellent journalism. But I think you're right. As a brand,
they have started shifting over as about to be a
balance in their minds to what they're seeing as you know,
(22:25):
the right um, the right wing angle of that. So yeah,
I mean, look, news organizations evolved, I guess, and that's
the way they're choosing to evolve at this point where
they evolve in another way again, maybe you know, well,
they might be forced to be evolved in because now,
(22:46):
I mean, do people younger than us watch cable news?
I asked my staff at Bold TV pretty often, and
it doesn't seem they even watch cable news. I mean,
it seems to be I don't think so. Yeah, I
don't think so. I don't think so and I and
that may be partly why they're doing that, is to,
you know, to gain attention and to and to be
(23:09):
part of that heightened level of of discourse that seems
to be so prevalent in cable anyway. Um But no,
I don't think. I don't think younger people are are
watching cable. It seems to me, and it's not the
you know, I think younger people. Um. I think millennials
and younger are not averse to long form right there
(23:31):
listening to podcasts. They're they're watching things on other platforms,
but they're not necessarily watching cable news. Um So, I
think that's the difference. And I think it's a I
think it's something that um that news organizations, the legacy
ones are seeing. And so you see in these NBC
(23:52):
News starting their NBC News streaming service right and hiring
a bunch of journalists for that now. So, um So,
as long as something is mobile, then that's great. CNN
is somewhat mobile, but the primary viewers are on cable
and they're older. We talk about young people like their
(24:21):
cord cutters and like they never watch multi media ever again,
like they fell off the face of the planet. It's
actually kind of absurd the way we talk about it,
like they're not consuming content. You talk to young people
and they consume because older, older people are putting them
in a box, right, and you know, they're all like this,
But that's not the case. I'm constantly any time I'm
(24:43):
around younger generations than nine, I'm always asking him, so,
where are you getting your news? How are you watching it?
Where are you listening? And all that kind of stuff,
And and this is what I'm hearing. It's not that
they're reverse to to those platforms. Is that, um, you know,
they want something that's more mobile, and they want something
that's actually going to be meaningful. And and the tip
(25:06):
for Tad and the and the the heightened discourse is
not it's not something that that resonates with them. No,
it really doesn't. And what's funny is there's a huge
economic incentive to develop brands that really appeal to young
people because this is kind of the wild wild West
right now. Nobody knows where young people will be consuming
(25:28):
their news, and we talk about news not being profitable,
but if someone can figure that out, they're going to
be the next big thing here. I mean, can't you
see it being somehow you know, like virtual reality related
or something. Something's going to change, right, I Mean when
I was first coming up, I remember, you know, the
veterans I was working with lamenting that film had gone
away because it provided them the time and the ability
(25:52):
to really tell a good story in this really beautiful way.
And I'm like, tape is so much better. It's faster,
you know. And so as we move on to technology changes,
and it provides us with different platforms in different ways
that we can we can consume UM journalism. And I
continue to use the word journalism instead of news because
(26:12):
I want it to be clear that for me, that's
what's important. It's the storytelling at the end of the day,
and how is that storytelling getting told? Yes, Specifically, what
I've noticed is there's a lot more documentaries right talking
about important issues in a long form. I feel like
there's a huge need for that. And you have some
experience in that field. I do. I I mean, documentary
(26:38):
work is so is so amazing. You get to really
dive into people's lives, you get to dive into um issues.
I had the good fortune of being sent to direct
and produce UM work down the Nicaragua and we followed
a family who has an American family that sold everything
they owned to start an orphanage in Managua and and
(27:01):
just really changed their lives and of course change the
lives of the of the children and the families who
they helped. And then while we were there, we also
went into the largest garbage dump in all of Central
America where people live they have been displaced by hurricanes
(27:22):
and we're living in abject poverty, um in these garbage dumps.
And this is how they were making their living, is
picking through for copper and anything else they could find
to sell off for recycling. And it was it was horrifying,
but it changed me and um, and it's important to
(27:42):
tell those stories. And and I think young people, I
think people of all ages are interested in documentary film
work right now. They're interested in in really understanding, um,
human stories at a deeper level. And and that's something
that needs to be supported even more, right it's documentary
film work. And and you see some of that happening
(28:04):
with CNN right there supporting documentary films. Um. They have
their own films over there. Um, their own they're rolling
out their own channel. Yeah exactly so UM. So that's
important and that's something that I hope continues to grow
because it is an important source of journalissons to do
(28:24):
those documentaries. Yeah. I'm specifically seeing a renaissance in documentaries
about environmental issues because obvious oftentimes, as you know through
your fracking coverage, environmental issues are very complex. They're not
just like oh, just stop and suddenly you know, all
our problems are solved. These are all interconnected problems that
have to do with economics, poverty, you know, corporations, government regulation.
(28:49):
Talk about just a crash course in humanity. When you
cover environmental issues, it really really is. It's very complex. Um.
They're they're often hard stories to tell because you especially visually,
because you can have nice, nice visuals of like oceans
and fish and you know whatever, but it's you're not
(29:11):
able to see what the environmental damage is sometimes um
or or what that could look like if things were
improved in a particular area. So it is a hard
story to tell and UM, and so you need to
approach it as always I think from the perspective of somebody, um,
(29:34):
somebody who's being having it an impact on it, or
is being impacted by it. And so to work your
way in through um, through the human aspect of it
helps people to understand how these environmental policies affect them
and how they can start to think about them. A
(29:55):
lot of environmental reporting, I think could could go toward
the direction of UM solutions type journalism, where you really
investigate where the problem is, why it is that way,
who's involved in that way, provide a roadmap to what
(30:15):
a solution maybe UM and I think there's a lot
of that that's going on. I know Pro Publica is
pretty great at that, but it's something that can be
applied specifically to UM reporting on environmental issues. So Dina,
I have to bring California into this because I am
soon headed that way. We'll be spending more time there.
(30:38):
California is always, you know, the staying has always been
as goes California, so goes the nation. Right, it's usually
the trend setter, whether it's economics, government, culture, etcetera. California
seems to be in trouble no matter what your politics are.
You know, hundreds of thousands of people have left, the
population perhaps has dropped for the first time in re
(31:00):
in history. What's going on in California? That's probably the
number one question I get as a journalist, By the way,
what's up with California? And what can we do about housing? Housing?
That's the number one issue there is the number one
issue on so many levels. If you're really wealthy, you're
(31:20):
doing okay. Of course. Um, if your middle class is
getting harder and harder to be in affordable housing that
is anywhere near you being able to reasonably commute to
your work. Right, Um, if you're on the edge financially,
(31:43):
your chances of becoming homeless increase. The homelessness issue is growing, right,
and there's there's not that much it's being done to
really address it in a systemic way. So the housing
is I think the biggest issue. I did a report
on this a couple of years ago when I was
(32:03):
UM hosting in Focus at Spectrum News one here in
Los Angeles, and it is one of the driving forces
for why people are leaving the state. It's just too
expensive to have a roof over your head, and there
isn't enough of it. There isn't enough affordable housing. And
when new housing is being built and um and being
(32:27):
zoned for by by a city or by the county, um,
it is affordable housing. And then the rest is luxury units.
So that makes it even harder. So that's that's I
think the biggest reason. And and is the rest of
the country going to go in that direction? I sure
(32:49):
hope not. But that's what's happening here. Well. Single family
home zoning was invented famously in Berkeley, California, and it's
actually one of the weirdest policies to come out of
the left wing in my opinion, because you know, uh,
pro people policies, you would think you would be for
(33:10):
affordable housing, right, But if you create such strict zoning laws,
you make the housing stock shrink and you make prices
go to the moon. I am shocked by the housing
prices in California, and it seems like the only way,
the only way out of it is deregulation, getting rid
(33:31):
of all these zoning policies. Why don't we see the
government doing something like that, because this appears to be
a largely manufactured problem with all these regulations at the
local level. Right. But then you also, so this is
a massive debate um both at the state level and
at the local level. And people who already own their
(33:53):
homes don't want to get rid of that because this
is an asset. This is you know, their family wealth
is built around the single family home that they have,
and so who wants to get rid of that and
have and have you know, aspects of the neighborhood, the
prices come down and then the value of their single
family home comes down. On the other side, of course,
(34:15):
people need to be housed, and they need to be
able to afford to to live there and to live
within the decent proximity of their job. The most people
do not take public transportation. It doesn't go to the
places that they need to go. And so one of
the programs that one of the plans that is being
pushed hard on the left side is to build these
(34:39):
communities around public transportation. Again, those those buildings are majority
luxury apartment buildings and luxury condos. So nobody who is
going to be able to afford that is going to
give up their BMW or their Mercedes to be able
to take public transportation somewhere. They're going to drive their car.
(35:01):
That's part of the culture here too. So, um, does
there need to be deregulation on those issues. Yeah, I
think that that is something that those who are supportive
of affordable housing are looking to do. And I don't
think the deregulation aspect of it is is a right
(35:22):
or left issue. I think it's how we're going to
get more affordable housing, and um, and the zoning, the
zoning restrictions are an obstacle to that, absolutely, and that's
and that is what's being debated again at the state
level and at the local level. And UM, I haven't
seen much traction go in either direction. I think this
is going to continue to be a debate because both
(35:43):
sides are entrenched. It seems like this problem is spreading
across the country though, this housing crisis, and it seems
like it makes every other societal problem that we have worse.
And now we see a lot of journalists or people
who purport to be journalists talking about how a renter
society is better, how you know, we shouldn't care, but
(36:05):
it's quickly emerging that you know, rents go up pretty fast,
and housing, as you mentioned, is a pretty safe bet
in the long term to build intergenerational wealth. And it
seems like California is kind of the canary in the
coal mine or the warning for the rest of the
country that eventually, you know, restricting the construction of housing
(36:26):
leads to homelessness, poverty, extreme commuting, and ultimately just very
sub optimal outcomes. Absolutely, and every level, as you say, so,
rents here you can't get a one bedroom in a
in a location that you would you know, be able
(36:48):
to walk to things or anything like that for less
than a month. Um. It's at New York City Manhattan levels, right,
three thousand dollars UM. So that's that is really high.
And that's really high for even middle class. It's really
high for for anybody unless you're making well over a
hundred thousand dollars a year. So, yeah, you have a
(37:13):
society of has and have not and and the middle
class just seems to just head for the exit door
in California. And you guys have a higher poverty rate
than Mississippi at this point. So you know, when is
the political class going to wake up and say, hey, like,
we got to stop the exodus. You know, I honestly,
(37:36):
I don't know when they're going to actually do something
about that, because it is going to take um is
going to take a concerted effort on both sides. And
you know it's California is mostly run by Democrats at
this point. The legislature is democratic, the governor is democratic
at least for the time being, and so um, and
(37:56):
so I don't know, honestly when they're going to actually
do something about this. I don't. I think it's a
matter of there's going to be a critical level of
an exit by people. I don't think that's what's going
to do it. I think it's going to have to
be a lot of voices clamoring for something to be
done who are still staying here in the state. I
(38:19):
don't think people leaving is what is going to be
the impetus for it. It's got to be a lot
of ground swell and a lot of ground work by
people at the local level to to demand the change
um in zoning and demand the change in terms of
being able to house the homeless specifically, which is a
(38:40):
crisis right now. And that's something we see as journalists,
right we see the momentum growing behind the issue. And
you already mentioned that you're seeing people of all political
persuasions and backgrounds largely agree that we have to change
the way we're doing things or else you know, things
aren't going to get better. I mean, this is the
(39:01):
thing about being a journalist I love, is that you
need to you need to keep your ear to the ground.
You need to hear um what those whispers are that
are happening. But but they're adamant. Right, they may be whispers,
but they're strong and they're passionate. And so you need
to be able to take that ball and run with it.
(39:22):
And you need to be able to have a news manager, right,
a senior or a news editor, whoever it is that
you're working with, to be able to trust you and say, yeah,
give you the space to be able to run with that, because, um,
it is it is the job of journalists to to
really call these things out at the earliest possible moment
(39:43):
so that something can actually be done at the political level.
And and you know, it doesn't always happen, but it's
sure meant to work that way. Well, Dina, I really
appreciate your time as journalists. We don't have a lot
of time, and I like the way you approach this.
Journalism isn't always glamorous, but it is extremely rewarding, isn't
(40:06):
it It is? I love it and there's nothing else
I could imagine doing. It's it's how you It's how
you get to know people and you get to know
humanity and yourself. So if somebody feels that calling, I
hope they follow it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much
for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, David,
Thanks for having what a lively conversation with Mr Demetrios.
(40:33):
You know, a lot of times people don't realize how
hard journalism is. We're expected to be experts at everything,
and we lack one critical thing time. We have to
take a crash course in nearly everything, and we're always
accused of being biased, and we lack time, resources and
bandwidth to be able to do a story justice, and
(40:56):
it's a really hard job. You know, on our off days,
you notice in our voice and you see it on
our face, and then we have to watch recordings of
ourselves from our off days. So I always remember journalism
low margins, the fastest disappearing white collar profession in the world,
also one of the hardest jobs, but also one of
the most rewarding jobs. Talk about a profession where you
(41:20):
get to meet people, learn more, and make sure that
you have your ear to the ground and are listening
to change. You know, we get to learn about things,
as my guests pointed out, far before the general public.
We see the little upwellings of change, and that we're
always way ahead of the curve. And that's why this
(41:42):
is such a rewarding profession and today's complicated media landscape,
we have to make up new business models to meet
the challenges that we have today, specifically monetization and making
a profit off of delivering unbiased news. Let's face it, folks,
it's a new early impossible, but in the meantime, we're
(42:02):
trying to make the impossible possible every single day. I'd
like to thank my entire production team, including our executive
producers Debbie Myers and former Speaker of the House New Gingrich,
as well as our young interns who are making sure
this show is fresh and relevant for all of you.
(42:25):
Follow The Profit is a production of Gingwich three six
and I Heart Radio. You can download us on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Part of
the Gingwich
I'm David Grosso, and you're listening to follow the profit today.
I'm joined by someone from our profession. We have a
shared profession, which is journalism, which some people call the
fastest disappearing white collar profession in the world. None other
(00:22):
than Dina Demetrius Marius. I believe it is in Greek.
How are you doing today, Dina, Greetings from Florida to
Sunny l A. Well, greetings to you two from Sunny
l A to Florida. Thanks for having me. So what
is it like to be a journalist? I know I
could talk about this at length, but you have that
(00:42):
same war paint on your face that I do. Talk
about a difficult field. Tell me about your experience, so
you know, it is a roller coaster to say the least.
I mean, I think that it is one of the
most um satisfying and amazing jobs that somebody can have.
(01:05):
It is also deeply difficult at times, and um it
is becoming increasingly so, I think in a lot of ways,
both financially for individual journalists, um, both in terms of
the time and the resources that you're allotted to do
the kind of journalism that you want to do, and
if your freelances. More and more journalists are becoming That
(01:28):
is a whole other level of of up and down
that you're needing to deal with in terms of the
types of stories that you're pitching to various news organizations,
the financial sustainability of that. So there's a lot going
on in journalism right now and for journalists as individuals
in terms of making their way and continuing to do
(01:50):
the work that they love to do that. Honestly, I
feel like a lot of us have a calling to do. Yeah,
I feel like I didn't really have a choice but
to enter this field. Obviously, I was well aware of
the financial challenges, but every type of personality test I
took revealed politician or journalists. So I heard on the
side of journalism, what was your adventure to journalism? Like,
(02:15):
how did you wake up one day and say, Wow,
I'm just a glutton for punishment. I want to make
my life difficult yet very satisfying. As you said, Well,
you know, I'm I'm generation X. So it wasn't necessarily
a thought of this is going to be a difficult road,
and you know, honestly, there have been times when it's
(02:35):
been wonderful and pretty easy. And other times when it's
been more challenging. So again it's you know, it's it's
a back and forth in that way. But as a child,
I was really um. I had a news had an
impact on me. Watching television. News was really affecting me.
And my parents weren't the type of parents, you know,
the Greek immigrants. It's like whatever is on TV, okay,
(02:57):
if we're watching it, you're watching it too. And so
I wasn't she fielded from the news of the day,
you know, like I think a lot of parents are
doing that now and I understand why, but I wasn't shielded.
So these these stories and an impact on me. And
I was a storyteller from the time I could speak.
I was always telling stories to my younger brother and sister.
(03:18):
I was telling a story, you know. That was who
I was from the very beginning. And so um I thought, well,
if I'm going to be a storyteller, I want to
tell real people's stories. I want to be able to
have the type of impact on people that this um
information and these types of stories have had on me
growing up. And on top of that, you know, and
(03:38):
you may realize it's too from your family history My
parents are immigrants from Greece on first generation, and so
I was surrounded by their stories, not just their immigration stories,
but also their stories of living in occupied Greece during
the Nazi occupation and what that was like for them
as little children and growing up, and so all these
(04:01):
stories around me having to do with current events and
people's lives really really mattered to me. So at some
point in my early teenage years, I decided, well, maybe
journalism is for me. And I was lucky enough to
have a television station in my high school. We took television.
I was able to take television classes. We had a
(04:23):
we had a you know, a TV station in their
community station, and so I started my own news magazine
show from the time I was sixteen and hosted and
produced it and and everything. And so launched myself that
way and went to college and then afterwards went to Washington,
d C. To work as a journalists. So you've tackled
(04:44):
some pretty tough issues, which you know, I think that
comes with the hardness of having an immigrant family, right.
We come from war torn regions, you know, the hard
scrabble upbringing. You're kind of able to face head on
things like and I'm seeing he or my notes. You know,
mental illness and prisons, fracking, you know, workers rights. These
(05:05):
are touchy, complicated issues to break down for any audience,
never mind on video. You need to have you need
to have a background of steel, you know, to to
tackle those. Yeah, for sure. How do you channel people
stories without seeming seeming biased because that seems to be
a big challenge in today's media landscape. Yeah, um you
(05:29):
know that that has become quite a topic and it
is difficult sometimes. My when I approach a story, I'm
not approaching it from the point of view of am
I telling all the sides or am I including this
person's opinion and that person's opinion. My goal is always
(05:50):
I'm trying to find the truth. I'm trying to understand
what the facts are so that, um I can let
people know that this is how this particular or issue
is going to impact their lives or is impacting their
lives um at this time. So I don't I don't
think about it too much in terms of a political bias.
(06:13):
I think of it in terms of what is what
is the question we're trying to answer? So with fracking, right,
I mean, there are political their political opinions on both
sides of that particular issue. My question in pursuing that
fracking investigation as an example, is is is fracking actually
happening in California? And the state regulator had absolutely no
(06:36):
idea why because they weren't asking the question in the
oil forms that oil companies were filling out to find
out if they were if the types of methods that
they were using included fracking, So they had absolutely no idea.
People need to know if fracking is happening in their area.
That's whe the environmental concerns that people have. So it's
(06:58):
not a matter of political lies. It's a matter of
trying to find out what is actually happening, what the
truth is, what the facts are, and allowing people to
make that that decision themselves in terms of which way
they fall in the political spectrum with regard to that issue.
But Dina, you bring up an important issue right which
there are a lot of stories out there, never mind
(07:20):
political bias. Your it is just lack of process, a
need you know, a cause. Why does everything seem to
be just an outrage factory these days, specifically tailored for
left or right wing audiences and everything seems to have
a political bent. But as you've mentioned, stories are stories.
They don't really have politics. Well, they have politics in
(07:42):
the sense that they they impact people's lives, and so
you're going to be making a decision one way or
another with regard to the issue. But you don't have
to approach the telling of that story from a political angle, right.
You have to approach it, I think, and the way
I've done it, from a human angle. This is affecting
all humans. It doesn't matter if fracking is happening next
(08:03):
to somebody who's Republican or next to somebody who's Democrat.
It is still happening, and you need to make your
own political decision about what that means for you. The
reason why I think there's so much outrage at this
point is because that is what's driving social media, that
is what's driving the online um news forums, and so
(08:25):
people are you know, this has been talked about endlessly
click bait, right, so you're looking at a headline it's
meant to be outrageous. Some people who are into that
outrage will click on it, and so they'll you know,
they'll get advertising eyes on it, and and that's what
drives that particular form of news. But to me, there's
(08:47):
an ever greater divide between what we're calling news and
what we're calling journalism. Those two words used to be synonymous,
they used to be interchangeable, and I think that's that's
becoming the case because of what you're saying, because of
you know, these outrage headlines that are meant to, you know,
just make people click on it, and and it doesn't
(09:10):
matter what the outcome really is. It's just meant to
generate anger. And that's what it's doing on both sides
of the aisle. Does it ever, just kind of burn
out and create a point where for people just want
zero opinion journalism or news or information. Yeah, absolutely, it
(09:32):
causes burned out, and and we've been seeing it, I think,
particularly in this past year and a half and we've
been dealing with the pandemic, people have just I think
a lot of people have just had it. I'll tell
you have a cousin who is pretty middle of the
road in in the Midwest, in Illinois, who you know,
sort of messaged me in the beginning of the pandemic
(09:52):
and said, I just I can't take this anymore. I
don't know who to believe I don't know what to do.
Who do you suggest I look to for news? And
so I gave my opinion on places that I think
do really good journalism, and I gave him some options.
And I also told him, look at this website media
(10:12):
bias fact checker dot com. They're gonna you know, that's
what they do. They'll tell you, you know, are they
fact checking? Are they promoting conspiracy theories? And so on?
For all the different news organizations that there are. And
so that's something that I think an audience needs to
take upon themselves is ask the trusted journalists. I'm a
trusted journalist to my cousin. So he asked me, and
(10:35):
I gave him my opinion on that these are these
are people who these are journalists who are vetted, who
know how to vet information, who know how to vet
people that they're interviewing, and and that is critical to
understanding and getting the right um, getting the right information
on a variety of topics. So you're freelancing these days
(10:55):
for CBS, which I think is the gold standard in
mainstream media. And I'm not just saying that because you
work for them. Yeah, No, I'm not just saying that too,
because I work for them. Yeah, they're great. Yeah. So
from a journalist standpoint, like if I had to watch TV,
I would probably be more likely to watch CBS and
the competitors. Um, so what do you think that CBS
(11:18):
does better than the competitors. I would think that it's
really present more information in a more fulsome fashion instead
of just random sound bites. Yeah. Yeah, there's there's that. UM.
You know, look, a lot of a lot of news
organizations will do that as well. I think it's a
matter also of UM having a particular ethos within the company,
(11:40):
within the news organization itself. Look, you're you're going to
you're going to take on the characteristics of the people
you surround yourself with. And I have found UM the
people I've started working with CBS to be people journalists
of integrity, who are interested in telling stories that matter
(12:03):
to people and UM and their journalism process is is
there and it's solid and it's filled with integrity. That's
not always the case because of in part because of
the speed that news travels and so things sort of
get pushed under the rug. They're not done as thoroughly
(12:25):
as they need to be. But UM, for for other
news organizations, that's not the case. And CBS, I think
you're right, is at the top of that. UM, they're
just people of integrity and their journalists who are trained,
and that is a big deal. Just because an organization
has the word news in it doesn't mean it's providing
you but journalism and that's and and that's something to
(12:47):
really think about. What are some of the stories you've
been working on lately for as the CBS freelancer, you
focus on the Los Angeles area? Is that correct? Well, yes,
it comes out of southern California. And and I'm working
(13:10):
for Newspath, which is the part of CBS News which
provides UM stories national stories for all the different CBS
stations around the country so that they can incorporate them
into their local newscasts. And a lot of the stories
have been medical stories. They've been consumers stories, UM, what
travel has been like, UM now that the delta variant
(13:32):
has really you know, emerged, UM RV shortages, medical stories
about double transplants for a teenager, UM, the latest on
covid um studies and so on. So there's a lot
of that. They're pretty they're relatively sure compared to what
I'm used to reporting UM, but they're great, and they're
(13:54):
very they're very timely, and they're very useful to people
UM who are watching cities stations around the country, So
they're they're really great stories. So you worked for other
other organizations like Al Jazeera and other nonprofits as well.
What was that like? You know, I really love the
(14:16):
stories that I was doing UM, that had been able
to do for k c T, which is a PBS
station here in Los Angeles, and for Al Jazeera America,
and that was around UM. And the reason is that
pretty much anything I pitched that UM needed to be
deeply investigated was something that they would love for me
(14:38):
to do, and I was able to do that. So
I had the ability and the resources to be able
to investigate issues, to dive deeply into social justice stories
and UM and really tell them from different perspectives because
I had the time, both in terms of the length
of the story and the length of the process, to
(15:00):
to research the story, to incorporate as many voices as
I thought were needed in there. So those are really
great times. Yeah, I don't think people understand though the
life of a journalist. I was a local reporter myself,
and the demand for stories and good stories always exceeded
our bandwidth to cover them. And now we see a
(15:21):
lot of news deserts in the country, especially at the
local level. Has that been lost permanently or do you
think that there's ever going to be a way to
bring back that tradition of strong journalism, especially at the
local level. I really hope so, David, because you're right,
it is heartbreaking every time I see the another local
newspaper has shut down because they're out of money, they
(15:43):
can't hire, you know, they can't keep their their reporters.
It's really it's really terrible. It breaks my heart for
the journalists involved. And it breaks my heart for that
community because they don't have anyone to tell their stories.
They don't have anyone to hold the elected people around
them accountable. And so that is a huge part of journalism,
(16:06):
is actually a pillar of journalism to hold um those
empower accountable. And so yeah, there are many many news
deserts around. What I hope is that maybe people in
those communities will gather, the journalists there will gather and
create nonprofits for themselves to tell stories um from a
(16:29):
hyperlocal level in that way, and that we see that
starting to happen over the past five years. But I
think some really great journalism is happening at a nonprofit level.
Pro Publica is a fantastic example of that. They do
amazing investigations, They tell fantastic stories that I think everybody
should be reading. And there are nonprofit The nineteen News
(16:53):
is another nonprofit news room, so I think it might
be heading in that direction at least I hope so
as another way to to grow those newsrooms again in
areas where they've just just been decimated. Well, I run
a nonprofit news brand exactly for that, because margins are
so low and advertising skews so much of your editorial
(17:16):
mission that it becomes easier to run nonprofits. And so
I'm going to steal your pitch there, Dina. I saw
this crazy bumper sticker on the way back from South
Carolina a few days ago. It said defund the media,
which doesn't even make any sense. But let's put that aside. Right, Yeah,
trust in the media is at an all time low, right,
(17:39):
and we I mean, I'm sure Congress is less trusted,
but you know, we're basically on par with proctologists appointments
and you know, you know something, you know, cleaning out
your septic tank, you know, so stuff that is very unpleasant.
How did we get here? I don't know. It makes
(17:59):
me said, um, well, how did we get here? Uh?
You know, there are there are companies there are creating
news rooms that are not telling the news. So, um,
that's that's a big thing. So now then you've got
one one side of you know, the political spectrum doing that,
(18:21):
and then it gets countered by the other side. And
then there's this tip for tap between the right and
the left in terms of really you know, struggling to
get those eyeballs, and and it just becomes you know,
a tug of war and and a fight that you see,
you know, between kids on the street. It's really disheartening
(18:43):
in a lot of ways. Um, but that I can
tell you, I mean, and you may and you may
know this too from from your own experiences. Um, as
a journalist. The vast majority of the journalists I know
are really doing a yeoman's job at trying to tell
the stories that they think are important for their community
(19:04):
and for the nation. And you know, maybe globally, if
that's the level that they're working at, this is really
a calling for them, and so it's really sad that
they're getting swept up in the corporate tip for tat
that UM is really decimating the political discourse and the
(19:27):
social discourse in this country and frankly around the world. UM,
And they're getting swept up in that. And but they're
part of those organizations anyway. So UM. Again, I think
the nonprofit route is a great way to counter that.
But I do think that there are organizations, news organizations.
You know, Look, I'll just say it. A PBS News
(19:49):
Hour I think is a great program, CBS News is great,
MPR is great. There are news organizations that I hope
audiences will gravitate toward more two um and support them
with their eyeballs, UM, so that they really they really
get better journalism out of this and fill their heads
(20:11):
in there and their hearts with with real stories that
matter and not and not support stuff that that is UM,
you know, tearing things down. Well, I'm gonna pick on
one outlet. So I grew up, like you did, know,
I'm not that much younger than you, idolizing CNN of course,
Cable News Network, right, And there was this they had
this you know, reputation for being this, you know, unbiased,
(20:36):
straight news, the best journalist. It was always my dream
to work at CNN, right, And suddenly they got on
this whole outrage machine and the punditry and the really
stepped outside of their brand mission. And basically these days
CNN doesn't resemble what it used to be. For better
(20:56):
or for worse, maybe some people like it now, it's
just from an outside person effective. It seems like they
really built their brand around Trump, and now that Trump's gone,
they're kind of struggling to find their way in terms
of how they can make any money and kind of
have you know, a mission. Yeah, well I think, you know,
(21:20):
I think they're seeing themselves. Look, I had I had
many many years ago an interview with um with the
bureau chief of Fox News here in l a national
the network, and you know, we were having a discussion
over well, are you actually incorporating people from the other
side in the stories when you say it's balanced, you know,
(21:42):
as they were actually balanced within the story. And his
response to me is noring, we see ourselves as a
balance to all the other liberal media. And I said, well,
you know, I don't think this is going to be
a good fit this is not you know, how I
approach a story. I think that's what you're seeing now
(22:03):
with some of what's going on at seeing that. I
think their investigative work in their daily stories and the
journalists who are working in the field are still providing
excellent journalism. But I think you're right. As a brand,
they have started shifting over as about to be a
balance in their minds to what they're seeing as you know,
(22:25):
the right um, the right wing angle of that. So yeah,
I mean, look, news organizations evolved, I guess, and that's
the way they're choosing to evolve at this point where
they evolve in another way again, maybe you know, well,
they might be forced to be evolved in because now,
(22:46):
I mean, do people younger than us watch cable news?
I asked my staff at Bold TV pretty often, and
it doesn't seem they even watch cable news. I mean,
it seems to be I don't think so. Yeah, I
don't think so. I don't think so and I and
that may be partly why they're doing that, is to,
you know, to gain attention and to and to be
(23:09):
part of that heightened level of of discourse that seems
to be so prevalent in cable anyway. Um But no,
I don't think. I don't think younger people are are
watching cable. It seems to me, and it's not the
you know, I think younger people. Um. I think millennials
and younger are not averse to long form right there
(23:31):
listening to podcasts. They're they're watching things on other platforms,
but they're not necessarily watching cable news. Um So, I
think that's the difference. And I think it's a I
think it's something that um that news organizations, the legacy
ones are seeing. And so you see in these NBC
(23:52):
News starting their NBC News streaming service right and hiring
a bunch of journalists for that now. So, um So,
as long as something is mobile, then that's great. CNN
is somewhat mobile, but the primary viewers are on cable
and they're older. We talk about young people like their
(24:21):
cord cutters and like they never watch multi media ever again,
like they fell off the face of the planet. It's
actually kind of absurd the way we talk about it,
like they're not consuming content. You talk to young people
and they consume because older, older people are putting them
in a box, right, and you know, they're all like this,
But that's not the case. I'm constantly any time I'm
(24:43):
around younger generations than nine, I'm always asking him, so,
where are you getting your news? How are you watching it?
Where are you listening? And all that kind of stuff,
And and this is what I'm hearing. It's not that
they're reverse to to those platforms. Is that, um, you know,
they want something that's more mobile, and they want something
that's actually going to be meaningful. And and the tip
(25:06):
for Tad and the and the the heightened discourse is
not it's not something that that resonates with them. No,
it really doesn't. And what's funny is there's a huge
economic incentive to develop brands that really appeal to young
people because this is kind of the wild wild West
right now. Nobody knows where young people will be consuming
(25:28):
their news, and we talk about news not being profitable,
but if someone can figure that out, they're going to
be the next big thing here. I mean, can't you
see it being somehow you know, like virtual reality related
or something. Something's going to change, right, I Mean when
I was first coming up, I remember, you know, the
veterans I was working with lamenting that film had gone
away because it provided them the time and the ability
(25:52):
to really tell a good story in this really beautiful way.
And I'm like, tape is so much better. It's faster,
you know. And so as we move on to technology changes,
and it provides us with different platforms in different ways
that we can we can consume UM journalism. And I
continue to use the word journalism instead of news because
(26:12):
I want it to be clear that for me, that's
what's important. It's the storytelling at the end of the day,
and how is that storytelling getting told? Yes, Specifically, what
I've noticed is there's a lot more documentaries right talking
about important issues in a long form. I feel like
there's a huge need for that. And you have some
experience in that field. I do. I I mean, documentary
(26:38):
work is so is so amazing. You get to really
dive into people's lives, you get to dive into um issues.
I had the good fortune of being sent to direct
and produce UM work down the Nicaragua and we followed
a family who has an American family that sold everything
they owned to start an orphanage in Managua and and
(27:01):
just really changed their lives and of course change the
lives of the of the children and the families who
they helped. And then while we were there, we also
went into the largest garbage dump in all of Central
America where people live they have been displaced by hurricanes
(27:22):
and we're living in abject poverty, um in these garbage dumps.
And this is how they were making their living, is
picking through for copper and anything else they could find
to sell off for recycling. And it was it was horrifying,
but it changed me and um, and it's important to
(27:42):
tell those stories. And and I think young people, I
think people of all ages are interested in documentary film
work right now. They're interested in in really understanding, um,
human stories at a deeper level. And and that's something
that needs to be supported even more, right it's documentary
film work. And and you see some of that happening
(28:04):
with CNN right there supporting documentary films. Um. They have
their own films over there. Um, their own they're rolling
out their own channel. Yeah exactly so UM. So that's
important and that's something that I hope continues to grow
because it is an important source of journalissons to do
(28:24):
those documentaries. Yeah. I'm specifically seeing a renaissance in documentaries
about environmental issues because obvious oftentimes, as you know through
your fracking coverage, environmental issues are very complex. They're not
just like oh, just stop and suddenly you know, all
our problems are solved. These are all interconnected problems that
have to do with economics, poverty, you know, corporations, government regulation.
(28:49):
Talk about just a crash course in humanity. When you
cover environmental issues, it really really is. It's very complex. Um.
They're they're often hard stories to tell because you especially visually,
because you can have nice, nice visuals of like oceans
and fish and you know whatever, but it's you're not
(29:11):
able to see what the environmental damage is sometimes um
or or what that could look like if things were
improved in a particular area. So it is a hard
story to tell and UM, and so you need to
approach it as always I think from the perspective of somebody, um,
(29:34):
somebody who's being having it an impact on it, or
is being impacted by it. And so to work your
way in through um, through the human aspect of it
helps people to understand how these environmental policies affect them
and how they can start to think about them. A
(29:55):
lot of environmental reporting, I think could could go toward
the direction of UM solutions type journalism, where you really
investigate where the problem is, why it is that way,
who's involved in that way, provide a roadmap to what
(30:15):
a solution maybe UM and I think there's a lot
of that that's going on. I know Pro Publica is
pretty great at that, but it's something that can be
applied specifically to UM reporting on environmental issues. So Dina,
I have to bring California into this because I am
soon headed that way. We'll be spending more time there.
(30:38):
California is always, you know, the staying has always been
as goes California, so goes the nation. Right, it's usually
the trend setter, whether it's economics, government, culture, etcetera. California
seems to be in trouble no matter what your politics are.
You know, hundreds of thousands of people have left, the
population perhaps has dropped for the first time in re
(31:00):
in history. What's going on in California? That's probably the
number one question I get as a journalist, By the way,
what's up with California? And what can we do about housing? Housing?
That's the number one issue there is the number one
issue on so many levels. If you're really wealthy, you're
(31:20):
doing okay. Of course. Um, if your middle class is
getting harder and harder to be in affordable housing that
is anywhere near you being able to reasonably commute to
your work. Right, Um, if you're on the edge financially,
(31:43):
your chances of becoming homeless increase. The homelessness issue is growing, right,
and there's there's not that much it's being done to
really address it in a systemic way. So the housing
is I think the biggest issue. I did a report
on this a couple of years ago when I was
(32:03):
UM hosting in Focus at Spectrum News one here in
Los Angeles, and it is one of the driving forces
for why people are leaving the state. It's just too
expensive to have a roof over your head, and there
isn't enough of it. There isn't enough affordable housing. And
when new housing is being built and um and being
(32:27):
zoned for by by a city or by the county, um,
it is affordable housing. And then the rest is luxury units.
So that makes it even harder. So that's that's I
think the biggest reason. And and is the rest of
the country going to go in that direction? I sure
(32:49):
hope not. But that's what's happening here. Well. Single family
home zoning was invented famously in Berkeley, California, and it's
actually one of the weirdest policies to come out of
the left wing in my opinion, because you know, uh,
pro people policies, you would think you would be for
(33:10):
affordable housing, right, But if you create such strict zoning laws,
you make the housing stock shrink and you make prices
go to the moon. I am shocked by the housing
prices in California, and it seems like the only way,
the only way out of it is deregulation, getting rid
(33:31):
of all these zoning policies. Why don't we see the
government doing something like that, because this appears to be
a largely manufactured problem with all these regulations at the
local level. Right. But then you also, so this is
a massive debate um both at the state level and
at the local level. And people who already own their
(33:53):
homes don't want to get rid of that because this
is an asset. This is you know, their family wealth
is built around the single family home that they have,
and so who wants to get rid of that and
have and have you know, aspects of the neighborhood, the
prices come down and then the value of their single
family home comes down. On the other side, of course,
(34:15):
people need to be housed, and they need to be
able to afford to to live there and to live
within the decent proximity of their job. The most people
do not take public transportation. It doesn't go to the
places that they need to go. And so one of
the programs that one of the plans that is being
pushed hard on the left side is to build these
(34:39):
communities around public transportation. Again, those those buildings are majority
luxury apartment buildings and luxury condos. So nobody who is
going to be able to afford that is going to
give up their BMW or their Mercedes to be able
to take public transportation somewhere. They're going to drive their car.
(35:01):
That's part of the culture here too. So, um, does
there need to be deregulation on those issues. Yeah, I
think that that is something that those who are supportive
of affordable housing are looking to do. And I don't
think the deregulation aspect of it is is a right
(35:22):
or left issue. I think it's how we're going to
get more affordable housing, and um, and the zoning, the
zoning restrictions are an obstacle to that, absolutely, and that's
and that is what's being debated again at the state
level and at the local level. And UM, I haven't
seen much traction go in either direction. I think this
is going to continue to be a debate because both
(35:43):
sides are entrenched. It seems like this problem is spreading
across the country though, this housing crisis, and it seems
like it makes every other societal problem that we have worse.
And now we see a lot of journalists or people
who purport to be journalists talking about how a renter
society is better, how you know, we shouldn't care, but
(36:05):
it's quickly emerging that you know, rents go up pretty fast,
and housing, as you mentioned, is a pretty safe bet
in the long term to build intergenerational wealth. And it
seems like California is kind of the canary in the
coal mine or the warning for the rest of the
country that eventually, you know, restricting the construction of housing
(36:26):
leads to homelessness, poverty, extreme commuting, and ultimately just very
sub optimal outcomes. Absolutely, and every level, as you say, so,
rents here you can't get a one bedroom in a
in a location that you would you know, be able
(36:48):
to walk to things or anything like that for less
than a month. Um. It's at New York City Manhattan levels, right,
three thousand dollars UM. So that's that is really high.
And that's really high for even middle class. It's really
high for for anybody unless you're making well over a
hundred thousand dollars a year. So, yeah, you have a
(37:13):
society of has and have not and and the middle
class just seems to just head for the exit door
in California. And you guys have a higher poverty rate
than Mississippi at this point. So you know, when is
the political class going to wake up and say, hey, like,
we got to stop the exodus. You know, I honestly,
(37:36):
I don't know when they're going to actually do something
about that, because it is going to take um is
going to take a concerted effort on both sides. And
you know it's California is mostly run by Democrats at
this point. The legislature is democratic, the governor is democratic
at least for the time being, and so um, and
(37:56):
so I don't know, honestly when they're going to actually
do something about this. I don't. I think it's a
matter of there's going to be a critical level of
an exit by people. I don't think that's what's going
to do it. I think it's going to have to
be a lot of voices clamoring for something to be
done who are still staying here in the state. I
(38:19):
don't think people leaving is what is going to be
the impetus for it. It's got to be a lot
of ground swell and a lot of ground work by
people at the local level to to demand the change
um in zoning and demand the change in terms of
being able to house the homeless specifically, which is a
(38:40):
crisis right now. And that's something we see as journalists,
right we see the momentum growing behind the issue. And
you already mentioned that you're seeing people of all political
persuasions and backgrounds largely agree that we have to change
the way we're doing things or else you know, things
aren't going to get better. I mean, this is the
(39:01):
thing about being a journalist I love, is that you
need to you need to keep your ear to the ground.
You need to hear um what those whispers are that
are happening. But but they're adamant. Right, they may be whispers,
but they're strong and they're passionate. And so you need
to be able to take that ball and run with it.
(39:22):
And you need to be able to have a news manager, right,
a senior or a news editor, whoever it is that
you're working with, to be able to trust you and say, yeah,
give you the space to be able to run with that, because, um,
it is it is the job of journalists to to
really call these things out at the earliest possible moment
(39:43):
so that something can actually be done at the political level.
And and you know, it doesn't always happen, but it's
sure meant to work that way. Well, Dina, I really
appreciate your time as journalists. We don't have a lot
of time, and I like the way you approach this.
Journalism isn't always glamorous, but it is extremely rewarding, isn't
(40:06):
it It is? I love it and there's nothing else
I could imagine doing. It's it's how you It's how
you get to know people and you get to know
humanity and yourself. So if somebody feels that calling, I
hope they follow it. Awesome. Well, thank you so much
for your time. I really appreciate it. Thank you, David,
Thanks for having what a lively conversation with Mr Demetrios.
(40:33):
You know, a lot of times people don't realize how
hard journalism is. We're expected to be experts at everything,
and we lack one critical thing time. We have to
take a crash course in nearly everything, and we're always
accused of being biased, and we lack time, resources and
bandwidth to be able to do a story justice, and
(40:56):
it's a really hard job. You know, on our off days,
you notice in our voice and you see it on
our face, and then we have to watch recordings of
ourselves from our off days. So I always remember journalism
low margins, the fastest disappearing white collar profession in the world,
also one of the hardest jobs, but also one of
the most rewarding jobs. Talk about a profession where you
(41:20):
get to meet people, learn more, and make sure that
you have your ear to the ground and are listening
to change. You know, we get to learn about things,
as my guests pointed out, far before the general public.
We see the little upwellings of change, and that we're
always way ahead of the curve. And that's why this
(41:42):
is such a rewarding profession and today's complicated media landscape,
we have to make up new business models to meet
the challenges that we have today, specifically monetization and making
a profit off of delivering unbiased news. Let's face it, folks,
it's a new early impossible, but in the meantime, we're
(42:02):
trying to make the impossible possible every single day. I'd
like to thank my entire production team, including our executive
producers Debbie Myers and former Speaker of the House New Gingrich,
as well as our young interns who are making sure
this show is fresh and relevant for all of you.
(42:25):
Follow The Profit is a production of Gingwich three six
and I Heart Radio. You can download us on Spotify,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Part of
the Gingwich
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