September 27, 2022 • 40 mins
We're back! So sorry about the delay. What even is time anymore? Do not fret though because we are back with a BANG!
On this episode of Food Court with Richard Blais our judge is faced with a doozy of a debate. What's better- crispy or chewy cookies? And two people who are as good at talking as they are at cooking are here to lay it all out. John Kanell of the Preppy Kitchen is defending the honor of crispy cookies while Chef Maneet Chauhan is throwing down for chewy.
John's cookbook hit stores this week and there are a bunch of great fall recipes perfect for right now!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Any rules, and what rules? And he rules? And he
dudes and he don't. No gloves off? You know, just
pretend you obviously know each other and you like each other.
How can gloves be off against this space? Are you
you know? I know? Well, that's that's just creamy food court?
(00:33):
Food court? Food court with lace? Are you in the
food court with lace? Like pancakes? Welcome to the food court.
(00:59):
Up for auction of I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze,
and I will be your host and your judge in
this courtroom of sorts. I will settle your food fights.
And what I can only hope is with wit and
wisdom that Judge Judy gets paid four hundred million dollars.
For Judge Judy gets paid four hundred million dollars. You
don't think it's worth it, Judge Judy gets paid. This
(01:21):
is a serious thing. I'm sorry that you found out
this way. I my yah, yeah, yeah, I am a
judge John. First of how dare you in my courtroom?
Do I know after this episode there will be five
hundred million what are you talking about? Billion dollars? Judge Judy?
I got the sass of Judge Judy. I don't have
(01:44):
the wit and wisdom perhaps, But here we go joining
us in the court today, we have two experts in
the kitchen who both have so much to say about cooking,
and they've written books about it. Our first guest is
a former teacher who switched from educating kids to educating people. Wait,
kids are people, Crystal, Okay, people in the kitchen. Yes,
(02:04):
educating kids to educating people in the kitchen. And this
week his cookbook comes out. It's John Canal from the
Preppie Kitchen. You're very excited. Oh my gosh, John, We're
so excited to have you here. I've been stalking your
Instagram page for the last twenty four hours. I also
love your you're in your kitchen, which, by the way,
(02:26):
I love that you got the copper pots behind you.
It's like a dream set up for me even have
you can't see because it's a podcast. Everybody's got a
fish pan back there, an oval copper fish pan. There
is a whole set of drawers for copper pans that
you've never even seen before. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
I've worked in French kitchens maybe, but I would like
what's the oddest utensil? Yeah, let me see that's amazing.
(02:51):
They stopped you. But copper is still good for sugar.
That's about the only thing you really see it for
in the modern kitchen nowadays, right because because it can
get you poisoned, I think, or some thing I'm looking
at my preaching happens preppy kitchen throwing it down, also
looking amazing as always, John, And I don't know how
you do with all the delicious sweet baked goods. Those
five year old boys got me running around. Let me
(03:13):
tell you they're They're here and there in a flash.
It's crazy. At this point. There's also a lot of
child carrying happen, like let's get tired, and you're like, okay,
I kind of love that. I just I just got
a ruck sack delivered to me, which is like a
weighted backpack. But just like I should just pick my
kids up and just run whether to pick them up
and welcome around, they'll be happy. I love it. And
taking on John today, we have someone you've definitely seen
(03:35):
judging and sometimes even competing and dominating. Let's be honest,
it's MiNet, John. What's going on me? Neat your honor,
Richard Blaze. It is an honor to be in your court.
Neat you're saying that not there's a little there's a
(03:56):
little pan during going ond and I respected mint. I
mean John opening was you should have been a judge. Judge,
so I you know, we're just getting to know each other. No, No,
I love Listen. That's called like East Coast love. By
the way England is rubbing off on me. That's what
it is, Okay, John, Listen, tell us a little bit
about the book, because I'm super excited for this. I
(04:16):
am beyond excited for this, and I'm so excited to
be doing this podcast with many because she actually wrote
for the book as well. There's a lovely blurb on
the back from her and I was just reading it
and tearing up. It's recipes for seasonal dishes and simple pleasures,
and really it's organized by the season. So every season
has a different vibe. You want different types of food,
(04:38):
you have different types of ingredients available. And in the
wintertime we have this crazy vibe. We're like really just
kind of eating whatever we want, just a lot of rich,
indulgent food bubbling away, and you have the holidays. But
in spring, in the summer, there's an exuberance of fresh
produce available. We're grilling, we're out about, we're picnicking outside
and lighter, and you're just taking it bantage of the
(05:00):
stone fruits and all the vegetables that you can get
at the farmer's market. So it's over a hundred new
recipes that are near and dear to my heart. They've
never been on Preppy Kitchen before, as well as a
lot of scenes photos of everything that happens here at
Headshield Farm. Oh my gosh. First of all, I love
the ex sect like that are not on Preppy Kitchen
because that means you have thousands of recipes to not
(05:22):
have to like piggyback or copy one. That's like a
pretty big commitment. There was not one reused recipes, so
they are all brand new, and there's like a lot
of family favorites have been really close to my heart,
but I've just been waiting to have in a book
when it comes out. So there's like a Greek chicken
soup that's like it's it's at a lemono and it
is the most delicious medicine you've ever had if you're
(05:43):
under the weather, or like a Swedish inspired apple cake
that my mom made when I was growing up. Just
tons of different like really delicious recipes and interesting flavor combinations.
Oh my gosh, unbelievable. Check out Preppy Kitchen. If you're
not one of the one point three million people as
of this recording who are following Preppy Kitchen, oh my gosh,
(06:04):
well thank you, seriously, seriously just crushing the game. Mini.
What have you? What are you? What are you up
to right now? You're all over the place. You're on
this plane, you're on that plane, You're on all of
these TV shows. What's currently going on with you? Because
there's so much right now. I'm flexing to get into
the ring along with John, which is going to be
a lot of fun. But right I mean, it is
(06:25):
you know, it's life, That's what's happening. It's like this
morning was the kid's birthday of school, So did that,
you know, getting ready for the next whole week because
I'm about to hak on a flight to the West coast.
Came back from l A, Las Vegas yesterday. So it's
it's life. It's normal, and I wouldn't have it any
other way because then it would be too boring. That
is the most bashful description I've ever heard in my life.
(06:48):
Because she's basically a superwoman. She doesn't so many things
that's not a fair representation of what you do. John
flat Pree will get you everywhere. But yeah, you can
go ahead and button me up all you want, but
I don't think I'm going to take it easy on
you in the background too, So the only only we
can see it, and it's truly a delicious, amazing book.
(07:11):
So I'm just putting it out there because it's all
of despite our cookie difference, there we go. I'm hoping.
I'm hoping there's some differences coming down the road, but
but finishing off with some similarities. Here's the question, both
of you as parents, myself as a parent, what is
the time that your kids sort of brought you down
to earth? As a cook, have you cooked something that
you can remember that the kids didn't like? I have
(07:35):
to go first, No, No, every day I make anything everything.
I think that I'm in a chop kitchen when I'm
over here because there's time constrained and there are weird
ingredients that I put together. And then I try to
feed the kids and they look at me and they said,
Dad is a much better cook. Than you to just
let him do the cooking. Yeah, it's a big couch
in our room. Just saying that I feel, Yeah, I
(07:58):
feel I've been there, Jasmine. My wife is the better cook.
Kids always say it, John, what about you any any
any moment. Kids will cut you down in so many
different aspects. They're very truthful and live in the moment.
But what I want to say, as a former educator,
just mellow things out, is that food is like one
of the only points where kids control their bodies and
(08:20):
like what happens to them. So they're exercise and control,
they're developing their opinions, and uh, you know everyone likes
different things. Yes, well absolutely. I have one very picky
eater and one who eats exactly the things that I love.
So he'll eat like all the vegetables and lettuce and
just like you know, go on and on loves bitter
(08:40):
things and herbal tastes, and the other one is like crunchy,
catch up chicken fry. So many similarities with all of
our stories right here, m I have one one one
of my girls will be scargo and bone marrow and
whatever is in front of her, and the other is
chicken tenders. Pebe and Jay mac and cheese, forget it,
(09:00):
Like that's the microwave mac and cheese, and that like
doesn't matter what that does. How many restaurants cook, but
it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And John, you're right,
you know what I love. What you said is like,
don't get your feelings hurt. Well, and you can't be
in this industry if your feelings get hurt too too
often anyway, But like, it's okay to not like something,
and it's great to to then articulate why you don't
like something. And that's what cooking is all about. And
(09:21):
I always have one through my kids. You don't have
to like it. It's good if you try it, tell
us why you don't like it. And that's sort of
the mantra in our house. Wow, look at the probably
dry things. You know, at least once several times exactly.
But I have, well, I don't know many. I have
a teenager now just starting out school. And this this
happened yesterday. Now we went I'm just sharing because now
(09:43):
this is like a parent chat room, this is like therapy.
Now we went to we have an amazing farm. Shout
out to Chino Farms in Rancho, Santa Fe and San
Diego Area, I mean famed for like Alice Waters using
their tomatoes. Like I'm really trying to connect right now
with John and like and YouTube and eat, but I
like just like this, Like you know, a tomato, it's
(10:05):
who knows, it's a nineteen dollar tomato. It's not that expensive,
but you understand, like it's really like organic and it's
grown the best, the best of everything. Oh, I got
corn and tomatoes and I came home and I made
a simple suck a tash and served and it's all
just ingredients straight from the farm. And my teenager was
just like, why do you always cook disgusting lunches? And
(10:30):
it has nothing to do with her, you know. It's
because she had to put her phone down. It was
not about dad. It was not about the food. It
was just about having to put the technology down. And
I love her so much. It's just about those teenage hormones.
I another few years and I am getting so ready
for it. Okay, good, all right. You two have brought
up a topic to the court that has come up before,
(10:51):
but until now, no one has been brave enough to
take on this dessert debate. Let's get right into it,
John tell us about the case brought to the food
court today, cookies crispy versus chewy? Which one is better?
And you are going to be arguing on what side
I am arguing on, of course, the only side, which
(11:11):
is a crispy cookie. There you go, John, the gloves
are coming up. They're getting loosened up the crispy cookie,
which means me need I assume you disagree. Yes, a
cookie which is crispy is not a cookie. It's called
a bis kit. A cookie my definition is something which
(11:31):
is soft and chewy and gooey and everything delicious in life.
So I think that you should throw this case out
of court and declared it a mistrial because the basis
of this argument it's non existent. Usually anyone who's trying
to get a mistrial is set up for a bad
(11:52):
set up for a bad day. But argue that a
soft chewy cookie in fact be a bitem cake. I'm
gabling in. I'm gabbling it, or order order in the court,
Order in the court. I'm so happy that this happened
(12:13):
because I thought that you were not going to get
into it. You guys were too sweet, too lovable, too
friendly with each other, and you've already started the debate
when it's not time for the debate yet. This court,
please both approach the bench all the way from Connecticut
and Nashville. It's a long This court will start soon
right now. I just wanted to hear that it was
Crispy versus Chewy. It's Crispy versus Chewy? Understood? Before we
(12:39):
get into your arguments here in my court, I love
to have a quick trivia round before the oral arguments.
The winner of the trivia round gets to decide the
order that you present. Does everyone understand how this is
gonna work? Understand all right now? Since you're both joining
us from you know, the southern United States and the
East Coast, and I'm here in l A today, so
you have to come up with your own sound effects.
(13:00):
In minete, what will your sound effect be when you're
gonna answer she's gonna clap us in? Is that she's
gonna clap us in like she's doing a confessional on
Food Network? And John, your sound effect is going to be? Okay,
I have two in spons Yes, that works okay to
wooden spoons, although one might be a ladle, but who cares? Okay,
(13:21):
here maybe love it, love it, love it? Okay, here
we go. It is the big clap from Minete. It
is the banging of two wooden spoons, which my grandma
would do a lot. That John's gonna do it different time.
That wasn't it was a different time. That is true.
I didn't say she banged them on me, but maybe
that was that was that? There it is? Okay, here
(13:43):
we go. Question one. The number one most popular cookie
in America is chocolate chip. But what is number two?
The second most popular cookie? Meal raisin? Oatmeal? Raisin is
not correct? Some needs John, do you want to chime it?
You want to you want to take a shot at
(14:03):
the answer? Sure bread short bread is not the answer.
So that is gonna wrap up question one with either
neither contestant getting it right. The answer is peanut butter
peanut butter. According to a Better Homes and Gardens pole
of responders chose chocolate chip as their most favorite kind
(14:24):
of cookie and chose peanut butter peanut butter. In my house,
I got a kid with an allergy, so my second
one would have been oatmeal raising but that doesn't count. Okay,
here your question two with no points on the board
for either contestant multiple choice. Here for question two, what
cookie is first Lady Jill Biden's cookie recipe for a
(14:45):
chocolate chip with pecans, B Cowboy cookies see oatmeal, chocolate
chunk and cranberry. That is gonna be John with the
light tapping of two wooden spooling to see see was oatmeal, chocolate,
chunk and cranberry. It's a pretty good guess and it
is correct, John Canal cowboy cookies were like a bush.
(15:07):
That's a bush recipe. Crystal was like, that was Laura Bush.
Everyone is like, so like, you guys got your political
cookies on a lot you do Obama? And chocolate chip
pecans was Michelle Obama. So those were actually three first
Ladies cookies. Is there a First Lady Cookie cookbook? Because
like a weird thing they have to do. But oh,
(15:29):
so what I don't even know what is a cowboy cookie.
There's like a little bit of everything and it's like
I think it's coconuts and then the sugar butter. Alright,
it's got everything. There we go. John was correct. That
means John, you're up one zero. Heading into the last question,
good thing for you mean eat in my court where
I make the rules. Question three is worth one and
(15:51):
a quarter points one point to five points, So the
winner of this question actually wins the trivia around John.
That's just how we're too That's definitely not because okay,
question three. Here we go. On Friends, Phoebe is sad
that her family heirloom chocolate chip cookie recipe is lost
(16:12):
in a fire. But it turns out that the recipe,
actually the recipe is actually Phoebe's famous recipe from Friends.
The recipe appears somewhere, maybe on the back of a
(16:32):
on the back of a milk carton. Is a good try.
Thank you so much for just like being a participant
and just going for it. Minets, it's on the bed,
was on the back of a Nestley Tollhouse chocolate chip bag.
Total fee, It's total, Phoebe, Did you guys not watch
fram mean, I watched Friends, but I would never have
(16:54):
got that that's a smelly cat or something. Maybe I
could have gotten a couple of that's there. It is.
Crystal is a pop culture savant, so that's like she
really knows all of it. And it also means that
what you googled that last night, but also I feel
like it's like so American that you're like, I have
this incredible family recipe and it's just like the one
(17:14):
that four million people get every day at the grocery store.
It is it is okay, well listen, okay, quick, quick, sideway.
This will be for the end, this will be for
bonus contact. But Minni, John, I I don't know if
you've I know you've judged, you're judging shows and you're
and I know you're Have you ever competed on a
on a show, John, Yes, I did, Minita and I
have cooked on shows where you're running through a gross supermarket. Right.
(17:35):
It's called Guys Grocery Games. And one of my tips
on Guys Grocery Games is look at the recipes on
the back of containers. That is good to know. I think, oh, there,
you're sorry, went in down. If you got to make
a dessert and you're like, I don't know, like, look
in the back of the cornbread box, you might find
a recipe that works and then you throw mine blow.
(18:00):
That's an incredible tip. Everyone's listening. I hope everyone who's
competing on Guys Grocery Games tomorrow. An episode which I
was not invited to me need okay, So that means that,
uh we I was a low scoring trivia around. But
John Cannell got it right right. You got one zero
(18:21):
and that means John, you get the big decision right here.
You get to decide whether you present your argument first
or second. What will you choose? It's a big choice.
We'll go first. John Cannell presenting first. That's very rare.
It's a rare choice. And listen, we're gonna get into
our artass I love and he's feeling strong about his
first argument. We'll get into that right after this quick break.
(18:51):
I wish one of your trivia questions had been about
Elaine's Muffintop restaurant from Seinfeld because that could have been
chewy cookie comment for me. But oh, I feel like
this is working into your three minutes or you're a
bottle or something like that. I didn't even see. I
gotta go back and watch watch that episode. Al Right, everyone,
welcome back to the court to recap today. In the
(19:11):
food court, we have the case of Crispy versus Chewy cookies,
and I cannot wait to sink my teeth into these arguments.
You are the funniest person I've ever made. Thank you
so much. I make none of it up. Crystal is
responsible for all of it. Okay, here we go. The
way this works is that you'll each get three minutes
to state your case. And during this three minutes this
(19:33):
is not really for you, This is for some of
our other guests. But during the first three minutes you
cannot use your time to go low or focus on
your opponent's case. This is about your case and why
crispy or chewy, not about why the other one sucks. Okay,
We're gonna get to that later. Now I'm a very
nice judge, So of course, after the three minutes, you're
gonna get two minutes and then tell your opponent why
(19:54):
they're you know, why their case is awful? All right,
So here we go. Three minutes. Crystal's got the time
up on the clock. John, You're in three minutes on
why crispy cookies rain Supreme starts? Now? All right, here
is the deal. I would like to you to consider
some historical precedent. What might one of the most popular
cookies have been four hundreds of years. It would be
(20:15):
a nice, crisp, buttery amazing short red cookie with an
infinite number of variations, so popular throughout the holidays as
well as around the world all the time. One of
my personal favorites is called a rosette cookie. I don't
know if you've had it, but they are made of
a very thin batter and you dip a mold into
(20:39):
that batter to get a paper thin layer of it
and deep fry them and they're dusted with powdered sugar,
golden and amazing. I have one cookie that is so
popular through many cultures around the world, including two that
I hold deer in Greece. The they're called and they're
(20:59):
all known as Mexican wedding cookies or snowballs. They have
so many different names, but it's a crisp buttery cookie
filled with almond flour. They could also be made of
with pistachios. And one thing that I would like to say,
aside from having like the popular vote on my side
with crisp cookies around the world, is that they're great
(21:21):
for storing. So you can have a crisp cookie, you
can make it and give it as a present and
it will be just as delicious for days and weeks afterwards.
Because food is about love and sharing and caring might
not be true with some other things, but it's true
with the crisp cookie. And you can also have a
nice play of textures. So some cookies might not be
(21:44):
crisp throughout, but having a crisp edge or crisp portions
gives you a play of textures which makes them so
much more enjoyable. I will also say that a crisp
cookie can be a little bit more cooked. It could
be cooked the point where sugar takes on some complex
(22:06):
and almost bitter notes. And as someone who loves a
depth of flavor in baking and cooking, I love having
a complexity of like a darker caramelized crispy cookie so
delicious one of my favorite cookies, or lace cookies and
oatmeal lace cookie. I should tell you if you're having
(22:27):
an oatmeal cookie. All my life I am mainly knew
those as oatmeal lace cookies, paper thin and crisp and delicious.
It wasn't until later in life that I had a
chewy oatmeal cookie. And leave that the other two minutes.
I want to talk about that right now. It's no
You got fifteen seconds, of course, will allow you to
(22:47):
finish up to get a chewier cookie. A lot of
the times you have to add more brown sugar to
really hold in the moisture and give you that, and
sometimes they can be a little bit cloying and too rich,
so it's not a balanced cookie like a short bread
would be. It's a heavy hit your head, all right. Well,
(23:08):
the soothing sounds of John Cannell. By the way, I
hope you are you doing for the cookbook? Are you
doing the reading for the audio version of it? Because
I wanted to? I don't know you should though, what
a great I meant there? You go watch the YouTube channel.
I will say so so calm, crystal producer crystal so calm,
(23:28):
but very very to the point, I mean, really getting
into textual contrast. I love the knowledge drop there at
the end, with the complexity of the sugar browning, maybe
even a little bit of my yard reaction, the browning
of the protein that's in the flower, a lot of history.
And then the rosette. Does John know that the rosette
is one of the most feud TikTok videos that I
(23:50):
have seven million people watching me make a rosette. One
can only guess why that might be. Aside from your
personality and the videography. But the cookie itself is a crisp,
cloudy dream. It's like a cookie floated from the heavens.
Is the rosetta cookie or doughnut? The court is going
to have to figure that one out. But mineat that's
(24:11):
all order ahead right here, I mean the crispy cookie.
Getting a good three minutes. Your three minutes to let
us know why it's all about chewy cookies. Mine your
three minute starts now, thank you, your honor, my learner
of opponent gave some absolutely amazing points. But let's talk
about cookies in a pool which was done in America.
Thirty five percent of Americans like crispy cookies. That leaves
(24:35):
sixty percent, which is a higher percentage than thirty five
percent that like chewy cookies. Right now, Also, there is
a pole as to which is the most popular cookie
in the entire country, and it is the chocolate chip cookie. Now,
the chocolate chip cookie is nice. It has that queenness
to it, that queenness to it. And if you have
(24:59):
noticed that most of the time when people get cookies
which are too crispy, what do they do? They get
a glass of cold milk don't the crispy cookie in
the milk and then eat it, making it we and gooey.
So even people who get crispy cookies are trying to
make it OUI gooey chewy by dipping it in milk.
(25:22):
Right again, if we go back to the history of cookies,
there are some incredible cookies which have been you know,
created all over the world. Right, cookies other than in
America which are crispy are called biscuits. Now in southern
in Southern America, biscuits are considered those you know, the biscuits.
(25:48):
But in the rest of the world where I grew
up in India, biscuits are considered these crunchy almost wafer
like ingredients which you put in chike coffee whatever you want.
Express so mean, think about it. Even in Italy, right,
you get expresso, what do you get on the side
of it? A biscotti? Why do you get a biscotti
on the side Because you take the biscotti, put it
(26:09):
in the lovely delicious expresso and take a bite of it.
And I think that is what makes cookie the ultimate
indulgence because when you go out and you want something
which is intelligent and reminds you of childhood. I always
order a chocolate chip cookie along with a chilled glass
(26:29):
of milk, and the world seems good. It's not because
of the texture. I mean, think about it, kids. Why
do kids like cookies? Because kids don't want to have
something which is overly crunchy. They want something which is soft. Right,
So that's what it's all about, right. It has to
have that queeness to it. There's that decadence to it.
(26:50):
And and I think that chewy cookies are the ultimate
cookies because any cookie which is not truly it's technically
a biscuit. And the argument right now is cookies crispy
or chewy? And I think I've made my point. We
(27:11):
need making making many points, but trying to change the debate.
Is A is A is a crispy cookie? Even a
cookie is what we need? Saying I don't, I don't
know seem like procedural tactic to me, your honor, it
seems a little procedural. You'll have your time. Milk is
milk the big fix. Are crispy cookies so bad that
(27:32):
they've had to bring in another ingredient to then make
them chewy? That is something we are going to have
to sit on here and then also many we do
have to say we are a serious court. You referenced
a couple of poles. Do you have a source for
these poles? Like did you pull three people in your
house this morning? What is sot of Americans preferring crisp
(27:55):
cookies as opposed to sixty preferring chewy cookies? Is m
Rachel Ray dot com? Okay? When you and and you
yourself mentioned when you were asking the first question as
to the most popular cookie in the country being the
chocolate chip cookie, that your honor was reference to your
(28:16):
what you referred h alright, bringing Rachel Ray dropping a
big celebrity food star name into it, and you're fresh
that would be a scientifically approved sampling of adults. But
we'll just go on, all right, it's getting heated here
we go all right. We had a little bit of
the snark, added John here and he's ready to go
at it two minutes of the rebuttal, John, what do
(28:37):
you have to say to men eat? And what do
you have to say about chewy cookies? You know what
kids hate? They hate crispy chips. They would never eat cheetahs,
and they definitely don't like anything like a taco or
a or anything with any texture. Kids only like mushy things.
No French fries for them, right, Well, I don't know
(29:00):
about that, and I also I'm not sure about this
definition of cookies versus biscuits. That is a whole another conversation,
and I think that that could be a whole different episode,
which I'll be happily, you know, arguing on if invited cookies, Yes, okay,
a chocolate chip cookie. Chocolate chip cookies come in two
different types, crispy versus chewy. I have had many crispy
(29:26):
chocolate chip cookies like there's I don't think Milano even
makes a chewy chocolate chip cookies. All of their cookies
are like crisper. Then crisp could be, and it's quite
a popular brand. There's definitely an audience or a chewy cookie.
I don't think the discussion is what do more people like?
(29:47):
I think it's what is better. McDonald's might be the
most popular restaurant, but I don't think that is necessarily
going to be judged as the best restaurant by everybody
who knows. So just because something is popular, it doesn't
necessarily mean that it's better. And milk does not make
(30:10):
things chewy. Milk makes things dissolved and becomes soft. Soft
is not the same as chewy. And I would also
point out that one of the most popular cookie brands
that does not need to spend any money on advertising
because everybody loves them is Oreos. And Oreos are crisp cookies. Yes,
they have a sandwiched delicious filling which is not chewy.
(30:33):
It's just soft. But you're only able to have a
play of textures because of the Christmas of that cookie. Okay,
we know that John's teacher, you know, his educator. But
he's ready for He's ready for his bar, chocolate bar,
you know what I mean? Yes, extra caramel there it is. Wow.
(30:58):
I love the opening there. Do you know what? Kids
hate Cheetos? And I'm like, what, No, kids love Cheetos.
There's one right there, right now on the other side
of the booth eating flaming hot cheetos. Ah. He was
being sarcastic. He's been in New England for a bit.
Everyone it's so sweet. It unlike I know, like that's
that's what it was. Was a nice little can right there. Wow,
(31:18):
Milano's who knew that Pepperidge Farms was gonna come up today?
Is it Pebridge Farms versus Entimans? Is that? What is that?
What is going on every day? Well, see, of course
you would because you like crispy things, John, That's what
we've established, and soft is not chewy. That's what I'm
left with after those two minutes, mineat you have two
minutes now to let John know why crispy things are.
(31:40):
I don't know, too crispy. Your time starts now. So
when my learned colleague referred to all of these crispy
pings like chips and cheetos and French fries, the one
thing to be noted, your honor, is that all of
these are savory ingredients. He is a definite difference turos.
(32:02):
By the way, when you bite into it, they do
have the chewiness in the center. So I think there
is a flavor profile over here that we really need
to discuss. It's savory versus sweet. Now, they are milano
is considered a vapor. They are two pieces of wafor
(32:22):
with some chocolate in between. That's not a cookie. Now.
There is an absolutely incredible, incredible YouTube channel. It's called
the Preppy Kitchen and John made this incredible chewy, gooey
chocolate chip cookie embedded with walnut, which is by the way,
(32:43):
I have followed and it is incredible. So when we
are talking about proof in the cookie, it needs to
have that chewy mess in it. You know, you say
you say potato, I say potato. That's what it's all about. Right,
So over here, I think even when you are putting
biskit or a wafer into milk, if you leave it
(33:05):
for too long, of course it's going to go all
in it. It's all about the timing it's in and
now right it's cooking is all about time, and eating
is all about timing. So that's what it is. You
take the crispy biscuit, put it in water, I mean
in milk, take it out, bite it and it'll have
that chewiness. Do it. And I think that is what
a cookie is all about. It needs to have that chewiness.
(33:28):
My mouth is watering just talking about it, and I
think that's what it's all about. The neat showing why
she is a Food Network star. She's dropping OUI, gooey, tasty, chewy, stretchy,
all of it. Yeah, the stretchy is usually my pants.
But that's a different story. Oui gooey and chewy. We're
(33:52):
talking about together. We're talking about biscuits. Hey, there's this
really great chewy recipe on the Preppy kitchen. Gosh, that
was that one was a little shots fired, right. Okay, listen,
you both have given me so much to think about.
I will have to go awigh your points. I'm gonna
go take a quick break, retire to my chambers, and
(34:14):
when I come back, I will have a verdict. Back
in the food court here. It has been a big one.
We've been waiting for this argument for a long time,
Crispy versus chewy cookies. Before I deliver this court's verdict,
(34:38):
you have a chance to sort of perhaps persuade me.
We need anything you'd like to tell this court before
we make this decision. Your all, this decision is about
what people like more and what makes sense, And the
bottom line is that if something tastes better, of course
more people who are going to like it. I mean,
(34:59):
it is the masses love chewy Oui gooey cookies, and
that's what it's all about. The people have spoken, and
I am sure that you are also going to speak
in their favor. Oh, I like that, you know what
I mean? He just did in a restaurant when I run,
I have a steakhouse, and when the server drops the
(35:19):
steak off, you tell the person the temperature of the steak.
Here's your mid rare steak, and it just kind of
offsets there like if they if they wasn't mid rare
to them there, it's just like the last thing that like, hey,
this this steak is mid rare. I mean, he was
like you, you will you will find favor in this argument.
I'm sure you will. I'm sure you are popular, judge,
I'm sure you will follow the popular trend. John, you
(35:41):
got one minute left to change my mind or further
convince me. You know what would be amazing is a
perfect golden deep bride donut. Yes, on the inside it
would be chewy, but on the outside it would be crisp.
A big donut could also be ashous, but imagine how
(36:01):
disappointed you'd be if you fit into that doughnut and
there was there was no crisp, golden exterior to offset
that interior. A cookie is very similar. If I had
a sweet, soft cookie with no play of textures, I
(36:22):
would I can just feel the sugar grinding between my teeth,
and that's the only texture I want to have. The
crispness of the cookie delighting my palate, giving me a
wonderful chance for the play of textures. And that's satisfying.
Crunch Imagine how many foods are crunchy and the sound
of crunching, and what it does to you to make
(36:43):
you want to eat more and just keep going. You
need that. That's Crisp Cookies, all right, John coming through
at the end, they're dropping a little audio letting us
know that it's not just about taste, it's not just
about appearance. There's also audio involved when you're eating something.
This is tough, This is a it's a massive again
this I can't believe we didn't cover this in season one.
Crispy versus versus Chewy cookies. It's taking us to season
(37:06):
three four. I don't know know how many episodes you've done, Crystal,
but has it just been so heated? No one's even
want to approach this one because were however, I decide here,
I'm gonna get some fan mail, that's for sure, well,
non fan mail, non fan mail. The it's come up before.
Remember when Duff did the show and his wife dropped
the mom that, like her favorite, aren't his cookies? Yeah?
(37:27):
And he was like, wait what and then she was like,
wait where arguing chili. So we don't have to talk
about it. I will not reveal about the Duff Goldman
rest because it might tip my hand here in this decision. Well,
this court has had a lot to think about him.
I mean many letting us know that it's Hey, maybe
this is a popularity contest. A lot of things are
in this world. At least three quarters of a Rachel
Ray audience prefer chewy cookies. She's got data on her side.
(37:50):
You know, she's talking about maybe it's biscuits and wafers
versus cookie. Maybe maybe a crispy cookie is isn't even
a cookie? Chewy cookies are indulgent. Don't you want milk?
Or two? Didn'tchai, which I'm gonna totally try right after this,
And then John really dropping lots of history on us,
talking about global cookies, the Rosette, the Mexican wedding cookie,
Milano's pepper rich Farms, Dentels, which I wrote down, and
(38:14):
then talking about the actual taste and what's happening, the
browning of the different sugars, the contrast of textures. A tough,
tough decision right here, but this judge and the Food
Court will judge in favor of Crispy Cookie. Thank you,
(38:37):
Crispy Cookie. It was a tough one, but to me,
it came down for a little a little bit more
of the description of what is happening taste wise in
a Crispy cookie. Although my favorite line from the whole
thing is, OUI guy, Chewy, I'm going to take this
to the Supreme Court. Saying that I'm not going to
(39:00):
meet your argument was so well presented that I was
questioning my own choices. I really had to have to
hand it to you. Almost yes, I mean I didn't
even know we're talking about biscuits and wafers. Minete throwing
down again, John Cannell, Preppy Kitchen, coming away with the victory,
both of you. Thank you so much for hanging out
in our courtroom. For more John Canell, you can find
(39:21):
him across the internet at Preppy Kitchen. You've gotta check
that out, which is also the name of his new
cookbook available now. Get more Minete across social media at
Minete Johan And if you're in Nashville, Tennessee, check out
her restaurants johan L and Massala House, or watch the
last season of Tournament of Champions or any of the
nineteen shows twenty shows that she's on across Food Network.
(39:43):
She's just crushing it. Listen, everyone, I know you, half
of you think, or maybe sixty percent of you if you,
if you believe MiNet, think that I got that one wrong.
So if you want to tell me about it, tell
me why you're so smart and I'm wrong all the time.
Let us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram, or
at Richard Blaze across social media and at Richard Blaze
Official on TikTok, where you can also see a video
(40:05):
of a rosette that's got a couple of million views.
Food Court is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bamahi. Food Court was
created by Christopher hassiotis. The rest of my food Court
clerks are Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman, and Jasmine Blaze. The
theme song is by Jason Nei Smith. For more podcasts
from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(40:29):
Thank you so much, Thank you for having us and
ruling justly. It's gonna send me a text, don't you worry.
Any rules, and what rules? And he rules? And he
dudes and he don't. No gloves off? You know, just
pretend you obviously know each other and you like each other.
How can gloves be off against this space? Are you
you know? I know? Well, that's that's just creamy food court?
(00:33):
Food court? Food court with lace? Are you in the
food court with lace? Like pancakes? Welcome to the food court.
(00:59):
Up for auction of I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze,
and I will be your host and your judge in
this courtroom of sorts. I will settle your food fights.
And what I can only hope is with wit and
wisdom that Judge Judy gets paid four hundred million dollars.
For Judge Judy gets paid four hundred million dollars. You
don't think it's worth it, Judge Judy gets paid. This
(01:21):
is a serious thing. I'm sorry that you found out
this way. I my yah, yeah, yeah, I am a
judge John. First of how dare you in my courtroom?
Do I know after this episode there will be five
hundred million what are you talking about? Billion dollars? Judge Judy?
I got the sass of Judge Judy. I don't have
(01:44):
the wit and wisdom perhaps, But here we go joining
us in the court today, we have two experts in
the kitchen who both have so much to say about cooking,
and they've written books about it. Our first guest is
a former teacher who switched from educating kids to educating people. Wait,
kids are people, Crystal, Okay, people in the kitchen. Yes,
(02:04):
educating kids to educating people in the kitchen. And this
week his cookbook comes out. It's John Canal from the
Preppie Kitchen. You're very excited. Oh my gosh, John, We're
so excited to have you here. I've been stalking your
Instagram page for the last twenty four hours. I also
love your you're in your kitchen, which, by the way,
(02:26):
I love that you got the copper pots behind you.
It's like a dream set up for me even have
you can't see because it's a podcast. Everybody's got a
fish pan back there, an oval copper fish pan. There
is a whole set of drawers for copper pans that
you've never even seen before. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
I've worked in French kitchens maybe, but I would like
what's the oddest utensil? Yeah, let me see that's amazing.
(02:51):
They stopped you. But copper is still good for sugar.
That's about the only thing you really see it for
in the modern kitchen nowadays, right because because it can
get you poisoned, I think, or some thing I'm looking
at my preaching happens preppy kitchen throwing it down, also
looking amazing as always, John, And I don't know how
you do with all the delicious sweet baked goods. Those
five year old boys got me running around. Let me
(03:13):
tell you they're They're here and there in a flash.
It's crazy. At this point. There's also a lot of
child carrying happen, like let's get tired, and you're like, okay,
I kind of love that. I just I just got
a ruck sack delivered to me, which is like a
weighted backpack. But just like I should just pick my
kids up and just run whether to pick them up
and welcome around, they'll be happy. I love it. And
taking on John today, we have someone you've definitely seen
(03:35):
judging and sometimes even competing and dominating. Let's be honest,
it's MiNet, John. What's going on me? Neat your honor,
Richard Blaze. It is an honor to be in your court.
Neat you're saying that not there's a little there's a
(03:56):
little pan during going ond and I respected mint. I
mean John opening was you should have been a judge. Judge,
so I you know, we're just getting to know each other. No, No,
I love Listen. That's called like East Coast love. By
the way England is rubbing off on me. That's what
it is, Okay, John, Listen, tell us a little bit
about the book, because I'm super excited for this. I
(04:16):
am beyond excited for this, and I'm so excited to
be doing this podcast with many because she actually wrote
for the book as well. There's a lovely blurb on
the back from her and I was just reading it
and tearing up. It's recipes for seasonal dishes and simple pleasures,
and really it's organized by the season. So every season
has a different vibe. You want different types of food,
(04:38):
you have different types of ingredients available. And in the
wintertime we have this crazy vibe. We're like really just
kind of eating whatever we want, just a lot of rich,
indulgent food bubbling away, and you have the holidays. But
in spring, in the summer, there's an exuberance of fresh
produce available. We're grilling, we're out about, we're picnicking outside
and lighter, and you're just taking it bantage of the
(05:00):
stone fruits and all the vegetables that you can get
at the farmer's market. So it's over a hundred new
recipes that are near and dear to my heart. They've
never been on Preppy Kitchen before, as well as a
lot of scenes photos of everything that happens here at
Headshield Farm. Oh my gosh. First of all, I love
the ex sect like that are not on Preppy Kitchen
because that means you have thousands of recipes to not
(05:22):
have to like piggyback or copy one. That's like a
pretty big commitment. There was not one reused recipes, so
they are all brand new, and there's like a lot
of family favorites have been really close to my heart,
but I've just been waiting to have in a book
when it comes out. So there's like a Greek chicken
soup that's like it's it's at a lemono and it
is the most delicious medicine you've ever had if you're
(05:43):
under the weather, or like a Swedish inspired apple cake
that my mom made when I was growing up. Just
tons of different like really delicious recipes and interesting flavor combinations.
Oh my gosh, unbelievable. Check out Preppy Kitchen. If you're
not one of the one point three million people as
of this recording who are following Preppy Kitchen, oh my gosh,
(06:04):
well thank you, seriously, seriously just crushing the game. Mini.
What have you? What are you? What are you up
to right now? You're all over the place. You're on
this plane, you're on that plane, You're on all of
these TV shows. What's currently going on with you? Because
there's so much right now. I'm flexing to get into
the ring along with John, which is going to be
a lot of fun. But right I mean, it is
(06:25):
you know, it's life, That's what's happening. It's like this
morning was the kid's birthday of school, So did that,
you know, getting ready for the next whole week because
I'm about to hak on a flight to the West coast.
Came back from l A, Las Vegas yesterday. So it's
it's life. It's normal, and I wouldn't have it any
other way because then it would be too boring. That
is the most bashful description I've ever heard in my life.
(06:48):
Because she's basically a superwoman. She doesn't so many things
that's not a fair representation of what you do. John
flat Pree will get you everywhere. But yeah, you can
go ahead and button me up all you want, but
I don't think I'm going to take it easy on
you in the background too, So the only only we
can see it, and it's truly a delicious, amazing book.
(07:11):
So I'm just putting it out there because it's all
of despite our cookie difference, there we go. I'm hoping.
I'm hoping there's some differences coming down the road, but
but finishing off with some similarities. Here's the question, both
of you as parents, myself as a parent, what is
the time that your kids sort of brought you down
to earth? As a cook, have you cooked something that
you can remember that the kids didn't like? I have
(07:35):
to go first, No, No, every day I make anything everything.
I think that I'm in a chop kitchen when I'm
over here because there's time constrained and there are weird
ingredients that I put together. And then I try to
feed the kids and they look at me and they said,
Dad is a much better cook. Than you to just
let him do the cooking. Yeah, it's a big couch
in our room. Just saying that I feel, Yeah, I
(07:58):
feel I've been there, Jasmine. My wife is the better cook.
Kids always say it, John, what about you any any
any moment. Kids will cut you down in so many
different aspects. They're very truthful and live in the moment.
But what I want to say, as a former educator,
just mellow things out, is that food is like one
of the only points where kids control their bodies and
(08:20):
like what happens to them. So they're exercise and control,
they're developing their opinions, and uh, you know everyone likes
different things. Yes, well absolutely. I have one very picky
eater and one who eats exactly the things that I love.
So he'll eat like all the vegetables and lettuce and
just like you know, go on and on loves bitter
(08:40):
things and herbal tastes, and the other one is like crunchy,
catch up chicken fry. So many similarities with all of
our stories right here, m I have one one one
of my girls will be scargo and bone marrow and
whatever is in front of her, and the other is
chicken tenders. Pebe and Jay mac and cheese, forget it,
(09:00):
Like that's the microwave mac and cheese, and that like
doesn't matter what that does. How many restaurants cook, but
it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. And John, you're right,
you know what I love. What you said is like,
don't get your feelings hurt. Well, and you can't be
in this industry if your feelings get hurt too too
often anyway, But like, it's okay to not like something,
and it's great to to then articulate why you don't
like something. And that's what cooking is all about. And
(09:21):
I always have one through my kids. You don't have
to like it. It's good if you try it, tell
us why you don't like it. And that's sort of
the mantra in our house. Wow, look at the probably
dry things. You know, at least once several times exactly.
But I have, well, I don't know many. I have
a teenager now just starting out school. And this this
happened yesterday. Now we went I'm just sharing because now
(09:43):
this is like a parent chat room, this is like therapy.
Now we went to we have an amazing farm. Shout
out to Chino Farms in Rancho, Santa Fe and San
Diego Area, I mean famed for like Alice Waters using
their tomatoes. Like I'm really trying to connect right now
with John and like and YouTube and eat, but I
like just like this, Like you know, a tomato, it's
(10:05):
who knows, it's a nineteen dollar tomato. It's not that expensive,
but you understand, like it's really like organic and it's
grown the best, the best of everything. Oh, I got
corn and tomatoes and I came home and I made
a simple suck a tash and served and it's all
just ingredients straight from the farm. And my teenager was
just like, why do you always cook disgusting lunches? And
(10:30):
it has nothing to do with her, you know. It's
because she had to put her phone down. It was
not about dad. It was not about the food. It
was just about having to put the technology down. And
I love her so much. It's just about those teenage hormones.
I another few years and I am getting so ready
for it. Okay, good, all right. You two have brought
up a topic to the court that has come up before,
(10:51):
but until now, no one has been brave enough to
take on this dessert debate. Let's get right into it,
John tell us about the case brought to the food
court today, cookies crispy versus chewy? Which one is better?
And you are going to be arguing on what side
I am arguing on, of course, the only side, which
(11:11):
is a crispy cookie. There you go, John, the gloves
are coming up. They're getting loosened up the crispy cookie,
which means me need I assume you disagree. Yes, a
cookie which is crispy is not a cookie. It's called
a bis kit. A cookie my definition is something which
(11:31):
is soft and chewy and gooey and everything delicious in life.
So I think that you should throw this case out
of court and declared it a mistrial because the basis
of this argument it's non existent. Usually anyone who's trying
to get a mistrial is set up for a bad
(11:52):
set up for a bad day. But argue that a
soft chewy cookie in fact be a bitem cake. I'm
gabling in. I'm gabbling it, or order order in the court,
Order in the court. I'm so happy that this happened
(12:13):
because I thought that you were not going to get
into it. You guys were too sweet, too lovable, too
friendly with each other, and you've already started the debate
when it's not time for the debate yet. This court,
please both approach the bench all the way from Connecticut
and Nashville. It's a long This court will start soon
right now. I just wanted to hear that it was
Crispy versus Chewy. It's Crispy versus Chewy? Understood? Before we
(12:39):
get into your arguments here in my court, I love
to have a quick trivia round before the oral arguments.
The winner of the trivia round gets to decide the
order that you present. Does everyone understand how this is
gonna work? Understand all right now? Since you're both joining
us from you know, the southern United States and the
East Coast, and I'm here in l A today, so
you have to come up with your own sound effects.
(13:00):
In minete, what will your sound effect be when you're
gonna answer she's gonna clap us in? Is that she's
gonna clap us in like she's doing a confessional on
Food Network? And John, your sound effect is going to be? Okay,
I have two in spons Yes, that works okay to
wooden spoons, although one might be a ladle, but who cares? Okay,
(13:21):
here maybe love it, love it, love it? Okay, here
we go. It is the big clap from Minete. It
is the banging of two wooden spoons, which my grandma
would do a lot. That John's gonna do it different time.
That wasn't it was a different time. That is true.
I didn't say she banged them on me, but maybe
that was that was that? There it is? Okay, here
(13:43):
we go. Question one. The number one most popular cookie
in America is chocolate chip. But what is number two?
The second most popular cookie? Meal raisin? Oatmeal? Raisin is
not correct? Some needs John, do you want to chime it?
You want to you want to take a shot at
(14:03):
the answer? Sure bread short bread is not the answer.
So that is gonna wrap up question one with either
neither contestant getting it right. The answer is peanut butter
peanut butter. According to a Better Homes and Gardens pole
of responders chose chocolate chip as their most favorite kind
(14:24):
of cookie and chose peanut butter peanut butter. In my house,
I got a kid with an allergy, so my second
one would have been oatmeal raising but that doesn't count. Okay,
here your question two with no points on the board
for either contestant multiple choice. Here for question two, what
cookie is first Lady Jill Biden's cookie recipe for a
(14:45):
chocolate chip with pecans, B Cowboy cookies see oatmeal, chocolate
chunk and cranberry. That is gonna be John with the
light tapping of two wooden spooling to see see was oatmeal, chocolate,
chunk and cranberry. It's a pretty good guess and it
is correct, John Canal cowboy cookies were like a bush.
(15:07):
That's a bush recipe. Crystal was like, that was Laura Bush.
Everyone is like, so like, you guys got your political
cookies on a lot you do Obama? And chocolate chip
pecans was Michelle Obama. So those were actually three first
Ladies cookies. Is there a First Lady Cookie cookbook? Because
like a weird thing they have to do. But oh,
(15:29):
so what I don't even know what is a cowboy cookie.
There's like a little bit of everything and it's like
I think it's coconuts and then the sugar butter. Alright,
it's got everything. There we go. John was correct. That
means John, you're up one zero. Heading into the last question,
good thing for you mean eat in my court where
I make the rules. Question three is worth one and
(15:51):
a quarter points one point to five points, So the
winner of this question actually wins the trivia around John.
That's just how we're too That's definitely not because okay,
question three. Here we go. On Friends, Phoebe is sad
that her family heirloom chocolate chip cookie recipe is lost
(16:12):
in a fire. But it turns out that the recipe,
actually the recipe is actually Phoebe's famous recipe from Friends.
The recipe appears somewhere, maybe on the back of a
(16:32):
on the back of a milk carton. Is a good try.
Thank you so much for just like being a participant
and just going for it. Minets, it's on the bed,
was on the back of a Nestley Tollhouse chocolate chip bag.
Total fee, It's total, Phoebe, Did you guys not watch
fram mean, I watched Friends, but I would never have
(16:54):
got that that's a smelly cat or something. Maybe I
could have gotten a couple of that's there. It is.
Crystal is a pop culture savant, so that's like she
really knows all of it. And it also means that
what you googled that last night, but also I feel
like it's like so American that you're like, I have
this incredible family recipe and it's just like the one
(17:14):
that four million people get every day at the grocery store.
It is it is okay, well listen, okay, quick, quick, sideway.
This will be for the end, this will be for
bonus contact. But Minni, John, I I don't know if
you've I know you've judged, you're judging shows and you're
and I know you're Have you ever competed on a
on a show, John, Yes, I did, Minita and I
have cooked on shows where you're running through a gross supermarket. Right.
(17:35):
It's called Guys Grocery Games. And one of my tips
on Guys Grocery Games is look at the recipes on
the back of containers. That is good to know. I think, oh, there,
you're sorry, went in down. If you got to make
a dessert and you're like, I don't know, like, look
in the back of the cornbread box, you might find
a recipe that works and then you throw mine blow.
(18:00):
That's an incredible tip. Everyone's listening. I hope everyone who's
competing on Guys Grocery Games tomorrow. An episode which I
was not invited to me need okay, So that means that,
uh we I was a low scoring trivia around. But
John Cannell got it right right. You got one zero
(18:21):
and that means John, you get the big decision right here.
You get to decide whether you present your argument first
or second. What will you choose? It's a big choice.
We'll go first. John Cannell presenting first. That's very rare.
It's a rare choice. And listen, we're gonna get into
our artass I love and he's feeling strong about his
first argument. We'll get into that right after this quick break.
(18:51):
I wish one of your trivia questions had been about
Elaine's Muffintop restaurant from Seinfeld because that could have been
chewy cookie comment for me. But oh, I feel like
this is working into your three minutes or you're a
bottle or something like that. I didn't even see. I
gotta go back and watch watch that episode. Al Right, everyone,
welcome back to the court to recap today. In the
(19:11):
food court, we have the case of Crispy versus Chewy cookies,
and I cannot wait to sink my teeth into these arguments.
You are the funniest person I've ever made. Thank you
so much. I make none of it up. Crystal is
responsible for all of it. Okay, here we go. The
way this works is that you'll each get three minutes
to state your case. And during this three minutes this
(19:33):
is not really for you, This is for some of
our other guests. But during the first three minutes you
cannot use your time to go low or focus on
your opponent's case. This is about your case and why
crispy or chewy, not about why the other one sucks. Okay,
We're gonna get to that later. Now I'm a very
nice judge, So of course, after the three minutes, you're
gonna get two minutes and then tell your opponent why
(19:54):
they're you know, why their case is awful? All right,
So here we go. Three minutes. Crystal's got the time
up on the clock. John, You're in three minutes on
why crispy cookies rain Supreme starts? Now? All right, here
is the deal. I would like to you to consider
some historical precedent. What might one of the most popular
cookies have been four hundreds of years. It would be
(20:15):
a nice, crisp, buttery amazing short red cookie with an
infinite number of variations, so popular throughout the holidays as
well as around the world all the time. One of
my personal favorites is called a rosette cookie. I don't
know if you've had it, but they are made of
a very thin batter and you dip a mold into
(20:39):
that batter to get a paper thin layer of it
and deep fry them and they're dusted with powdered sugar,
golden and amazing. I have one cookie that is so
popular through many cultures around the world, including two that
I hold deer in Greece. The they're called and they're
(20:59):
all known as Mexican wedding cookies or snowballs. They have
so many different names, but it's a crisp buttery cookie
filled with almond flour. They could also be made of
with pistachios. And one thing that I would like to say,
aside from having like the popular vote on my side
with crisp cookies around the world, is that they're great
(21:21):
for storing. So you can have a crisp cookie, you
can make it and give it as a present and
it will be just as delicious for days and weeks afterwards.
Because food is about love and sharing and caring might
not be true with some other things, but it's true
with the crisp cookie. And you can also have a
nice play of textures. So some cookies might not be
(21:44):
crisp throughout, but having a crisp edge or crisp portions
gives you a play of textures which makes them so
much more enjoyable. I will also say that a crisp
cookie can be a little bit more cooked. It could
be cooked the point where sugar takes on some complex
(22:06):
and almost bitter notes. And as someone who loves a
depth of flavor in baking and cooking, I love having
a complexity of like a darker caramelized crispy cookie so
delicious one of my favorite cookies, or lace cookies and
oatmeal lace cookie. I should tell you if you're having
(22:27):
an oatmeal cookie. All my life I am mainly knew
those as oatmeal lace cookies, paper thin and crisp and delicious.
It wasn't until later in life that I had a
chewy oatmeal cookie. And leave that the other two minutes.
I want to talk about that right now. It's no
You got fifteen seconds, of course, will allow you to
(22:47):
finish up to get a chewier cookie. A lot of
the times you have to add more brown sugar to
really hold in the moisture and give you that, and
sometimes they can be a little bit cloying and too rich,
so it's not a balanced cookie like a short bread
would be. It's a heavy hit your head, all right. Well,
(23:08):
the soothing sounds of John Cannell. By the way, I
hope you are you doing for the cookbook? Are you
doing the reading for the audio version of it? Because
I wanted to? I don't know you should though, what
a great I meant there? You go watch the YouTube channel.
I will say so so calm, crystal producer crystal so calm,
(23:28):
but very very to the point, I mean, really getting
into textual contrast. I love the knowledge drop there at
the end, with the complexity of the sugar browning, maybe
even a little bit of my yard reaction, the browning
of the protein that's in the flower, a lot of history.
And then the rosette. Does John know that the rosette
is one of the most feud TikTok videos that I
(23:50):
have seven million people watching me make a rosette. One
can only guess why that might be. Aside from your
personality and the videography. But the cookie itself is a crisp,
cloudy dream. It's like a cookie floated from the heavens.
Is the rosetta cookie or doughnut? The court is going
to have to figure that one out. But mineat that's
(24:11):
all order ahead right here, I mean the crispy cookie.
Getting a good three minutes. Your three minutes to let
us know why it's all about chewy cookies. Mine your
three minute starts now, thank you, your honor, my learner
of opponent gave some absolutely amazing points. But let's talk
about cookies in a pool which was done in America.
Thirty five percent of Americans like crispy cookies. That leaves
(24:35):
sixty percent, which is a higher percentage than thirty five
percent that like chewy cookies. Right now, Also, there is
a pole as to which is the most popular cookie
in the entire country, and it is the chocolate chip cookie. Now,
the chocolate chip cookie is nice. It has that queenness
to it, that queenness to it. And if you have
(24:59):
noticed that most of the time when people get cookies
which are too crispy, what do they do? They get
a glass of cold milk don't the crispy cookie in
the milk and then eat it, making it we and gooey.
So even people who get crispy cookies are trying to
make it OUI gooey chewy by dipping it in milk.
(25:22):
Right again, if we go back to the history of cookies,
there are some incredible cookies which have been you know,
created all over the world. Right, cookies other than in
America which are crispy are called biscuits. Now in southern
in Southern America, biscuits are considered those you know, the biscuits.
(25:48):
But in the rest of the world where I grew
up in India, biscuits are considered these crunchy almost wafer
like ingredients which you put in chike coffee whatever you want.
Express so mean, think about it. Even in Italy, right,
you get expresso, what do you get on the side
of it? A biscotti? Why do you get a biscotti
on the side Because you take the biscotti, put it
(26:09):
in the lovely delicious expresso and take a bite of it.
And I think that is what makes cookie the ultimate
indulgence because when you go out and you want something
which is intelligent and reminds you of childhood. I always
order a chocolate chip cookie along with a chilled glass
(26:29):
of milk, and the world seems good. It's not because
of the texture. I mean, think about it, kids. Why
do kids like cookies? Because kids don't want to have
something which is overly crunchy. They want something which is soft. Right,
So that's what it's all about, right. It has to
have that queeness to it. There's that decadence to it.
(26:50):
And and I think that chewy cookies are the ultimate
cookies because any cookie which is not truly it's technically
a biscuit. And the argument right now is cookies crispy
or chewy? And I think I've made my point. We
(27:11):
need making making many points, but trying to change the debate.
Is A is A is a crispy cookie? Even a
cookie is what we need? Saying I don't, I don't
know seem like procedural tactic to me, your honor, it
seems a little procedural. You'll have your time. Milk is
milk the big fix. Are crispy cookies so bad that
(27:32):
they've had to bring in another ingredient to then make
them chewy? That is something we are going to have
to sit on here and then also many we do
have to say we are a serious court. You referenced
a couple of poles. Do you have a source for
these poles? Like did you pull three people in your
house this morning? What is sot of Americans preferring crisp
(27:55):
cookies as opposed to sixty preferring chewy cookies? Is m
Rachel Ray dot com? Okay? When you and and you
yourself mentioned when you were asking the first question as
to the most popular cookie in the country being the
chocolate chip cookie, that your honor was reference to your
(28:16):
what you referred h alright, bringing Rachel Ray dropping a
big celebrity food star name into it, and you're fresh
that would be a scientifically approved sampling of adults. But
we'll just go on, all right, it's getting heated here
we go all right. We had a little bit of
the snark, added John here and he's ready to go
at it two minutes of the rebuttal, John, what do
(28:37):
you have to say to men eat? And what do
you have to say about chewy cookies? You know what
kids hate? They hate crispy chips. They would never eat cheetahs,
and they definitely don't like anything like a taco or
a or anything with any texture. Kids only like mushy things.
No French fries for them, right, Well, I don't know
(29:00):
about that, and I also I'm not sure about this
definition of cookies versus biscuits. That is a whole another conversation,
and I think that that could be a whole different episode,
which I'll be happily, you know, arguing on if invited cookies, Yes, okay,
a chocolate chip cookie. Chocolate chip cookies come in two
different types, crispy versus chewy. I have had many crispy
(29:26):
chocolate chip cookies like there's I don't think Milano even
makes a chewy chocolate chip cookies. All of their cookies
are like crisper. Then crisp could be, and it's quite
a popular brand. There's definitely an audience or a chewy cookie.
I don't think the discussion is what do more people like?
(29:47):
I think it's what is better. McDonald's might be the
most popular restaurant, but I don't think that is necessarily
going to be judged as the best restaurant by everybody
who knows. So just because something is popular, it doesn't
necessarily mean that it's better. And milk does not make
(30:10):
things chewy. Milk makes things dissolved and becomes soft. Soft
is not the same as chewy. And I would also
point out that one of the most popular cookie brands
that does not need to spend any money on advertising
because everybody loves them is Oreos. And Oreos are crisp cookies. Yes,
they have a sandwiched delicious filling which is not chewy.
(30:33):
It's just soft. But you're only able to have a
play of textures because of the Christmas of that cookie. Okay,
we know that John's teacher, you know, his educator. But
he's ready for He's ready for his bar, chocolate bar,
you know what I mean? Yes, extra caramel there it is. Wow.
(30:58):
I love the opening there. Do you know what? Kids
hate Cheetos? And I'm like, what, No, kids love Cheetos.
There's one right there, right now on the other side
of the booth eating flaming hot cheetos. Ah. He was
being sarcastic. He's been in New England for a bit.
Everyone it's so sweet. It unlike I know, like that's
that's what it was. Was a nice little can right there. Wow,
(31:18):
Milano's who knew that Pepperidge Farms was gonna come up today?
Is it Pebridge Farms versus Entimans? Is that? What is that?
What is going on every day? Well, see, of course
you would because you like crispy things, John, That's what
we've established, and soft is not chewy. That's what I'm
left with after those two minutes, mineat you have two
minutes now to let John know why crispy things are.
(31:40):
I don't know, too crispy. Your time starts now. So
when my learned colleague referred to all of these crispy
pings like chips and cheetos and French fries, the one
thing to be noted, your honor, is that all of
these are savory ingredients. He is a definite difference turos.
(32:02):
By the way, when you bite into it, they do
have the chewiness in the center. So I think there
is a flavor profile over here that we really need
to discuss. It's savory versus sweet. Now, they are milano
is considered a vapor. They are two pieces of wafor
(32:22):
with some chocolate in between. That's not a cookie. Now.
There is an absolutely incredible, incredible YouTube channel. It's called
the Preppy Kitchen and John made this incredible chewy, gooey
chocolate chip cookie embedded with walnut, which is by the way,
(32:43):
I have followed and it is incredible. So when we
are talking about proof in the cookie, it needs to
have that chewy mess in it. You know, you say
you say potato, I say potato. That's what it's all about. Right,
So over here, I think even when you are putting
biskit or a wafer into milk, if you leave it
(33:05):
for too long, of course it's going to go all
in it. It's all about the timing it's in and
now right it's cooking is all about time, and eating
is all about timing. So that's what it is. You
take the crispy biscuit, put it in water, I mean
in milk, take it out, bite it and it'll have
that chewiness. Do it. And I think that is what
a cookie is all about. It needs to have that chewiness.
(33:28):
My mouth is watering just talking about it, and I
think that's what it's all about. The neat showing why
she is a Food Network star. She's dropping OUI, gooey, tasty, chewy, stretchy,
all of it. Yeah, the stretchy is usually my pants.
But that's a different story. Oui gooey and chewy. We're
(33:52):
talking about together. We're talking about biscuits. Hey, there's this
really great chewy recipe on the Preppy kitchen. Gosh, that
was that one was a little shots fired, right. Okay, listen,
you both have given me so much to think about.
I will have to go awigh your points. I'm gonna
go take a quick break, retire to my chambers, and
(34:14):
when I come back, I will have a verdict. Back
in the food court here. It has been a big one.
We've been waiting for this argument for a long time,
Crispy versus chewy cookies. Before I deliver this court's verdict,
(34:38):
you have a chance to sort of perhaps persuade me.
We need anything you'd like to tell this court before
we make this decision. Your all, this decision is about
what people like more and what makes sense, And the
bottom line is that if something tastes better, of course
more people who are going to like it. I mean,
(34:59):
it is the masses love chewy Oui gooey cookies, and
that's what it's all about. The people have spoken, and
I am sure that you are also going to speak
in their favor. Oh, I like that, you know what
I mean? He just did in a restaurant when I run,
I have a steakhouse, and when the server drops the
(35:19):
steak off, you tell the person the temperature of the steak.
Here's your mid rare steak, and it just kind of
offsets there like if they if they wasn't mid rare
to them there, it's just like the last thing that like, hey,
this this steak is mid rare. I mean, he was
like you, you will you will find favor in this argument.
I'm sure you will. I'm sure you are popular, judge,
I'm sure you will follow the popular trend. John, you
(35:41):
got one minute left to change my mind or further
convince me. You know what would be amazing is a
perfect golden deep bride donut. Yes, on the inside it
would be chewy, but on the outside it would be crisp.
A big donut could also be ashous, but imagine how
(36:01):
disappointed you'd be if you fit into that doughnut and
there was there was no crisp, golden exterior to offset
that interior. A cookie is very similar. If I had
a sweet, soft cookie with no play of textures, I
(36:22):
would I can just feel the sugar grinding between my teeth,
and that's the only texture I want to have. The
crispness of the cookie delighting my palate, giving me a
wonderful chance for the play of textures. And that's satisfying.
Crunch Imagine how many foods are crunchy and the sound
of crunching, and what it does to you to make
(36:43):
you want to eat more and just keep going. You
need that. That's Crisp Cookies, all right, John coming through
at the end, they're dropping a little audio letting us
know that it's not just about taste, it's not just
about appearance. There's also audio involved when you're eating something.
This is tough, This is a it's a massive again
this I can't believe we didn't cover this in season one.
Crispy versus versus Chewy cookies. It's taking us to season
(37:06):
three four. I don't know know how many episodes you've done, Crystal,
but has it just been so heated? No one's even
want to approach this one because were however, I decide here,
I'm gonna get some fan mail, that's for sure, well,
non fan mail, non fan mail. The it's come up before.
Remember when Duff did the show and his wife dropped
the mom that, like her favorite, aren't his cookies? Yeah?
(37:27):
And he was like, wait what and then she was like,
wait where arguing chili. So we don't have to talk
about it. I will not reveal about the Duff Goldman
rest because it might tip my hand here in this decision. Well,
this court has had a lot to think about him.
I mean many letting us know that it's Hey, maybe
this is a popularity contest. A lot of things are
in this world. At least three quarters of a Rachel
Ray audience prefer chewy cookies. She's got data on her side.
(37:50):
You know, she's talking about maybe it's biscuits and wafers
versus cookie. Maybe maybe a crispy cookie is isn't even
a cookie? Chewy cookies are indulgent. Don't you want milk?
Or two? Didn'tchai, which I'm gonna totally try right after this,
And then John really dropping lots of history on us,
talking about global cookies, the Rosette, the Mexican wedding cookie,
Milano's pepper rich Farms, Dentels, which I wrote down, and
(38:14):
then talking about the actual taste and what's happening, the
browning of the different sugars, the contrast of textures. A tough,
tough decision right here, but this judge and the Food
Court will judge in favor of Crispy Cookie. Thank you,
(38:37):
Crispy Cookie. It was a tough one, but to me,
it came down for a little a little bit more
of the description of what is happening taste wise in
a Crispy cookie. Although my favorite line from the whole
thing is, OUI guy, Chewy, I'm going to take this
to the Supreme Court. Saying that I'm not going to
(39:00):
meet your argument was so well presented that I was
questioning my own choices. I really had to have to
hand it to you. Almost yes, I mean I didn't
even know we're talking about biscuits and wafers. Minete throwing
down again, John Cannell, Preppy Kitchen, coming away with the victory,
both of you. Thank you so much for hanging out
in our courtroom. For more John Canell, you can find
(39:21):
him across the internet at Preppy Kitchen. You've gotta check
that out, which is also the name of his new
cookbook available now. Get more Minete across social media at
Minete Johan And if you're in Nashville, Tennessee, check out
her restaurants johan L and Massala House, or watch the
last season of Tournament of Champions or any of the
nineteen shows twenty shows that she's on across Food Network.
(39:43):
She's just crushing it. Listen, everyone, I know you, half
of you think, or maybe sixty percent of you if you,
if you believe MiNet, think that I got that one wrong.
So if you want to tell me about it, tell
me why you're so smart and I'm wrong all the time.
Let us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram, or
at Richard Blaze across social media and at Richard Blaze
Official on TikTok, where you can also see a video
(40:05):
of a rosette that's got a couple of million views.
Food Court is a production of I Heart Radio. I'm
Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bamahi. Food Court was
created by Christopher hassiotis. The rest of my food Court
clerks are Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman, and Jasmine Blaze. The
theme song is by Jason Nei Smith. For more podcasts
from My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app
Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(40:29):
Thank you so much, Thank you for having us and
ruling justly. It's gonna send me a text, don't you worry.
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