June 22, 2021 • 38 mins
Today in the Food Court with Richard Blais two incredible chefs debate the merits of a condiment that kids love to put on chicken nuggets. Amanda Freitag is a chef who is willing to go to bat for her favorite condiment, ketchup, while Marc Murphy is here to say absolutely not, mustard all the way. One guest even pulls out props*.... despite podcasting not being a visual medium. This episode is serious business.
*Amanda pulled out a giant bottle of ketchup during Marc's rebuttal and walked through her entire apartment with it which made me sad we weren't making a video.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Creamy, creamy, crunchy. Food Court. Food Court, food Court with Blaze.
Are you in the food Court Court with rich Blase?
(00:26):
Food Listen? Listen, here we go. All right, all right,
welcome to food Court, a production of I Heart Radio.
I am Richard Blaze and I will be your host
(00:47):
and your judge in this courtroom. There are two guests
today will have to live with my final decision. Joining
us in the court today. We have two amazing chefs
and also listen, I've known them for a very very
long time, which is not me saying that we're all old,
but listen, they know their stuff. But unfortunately, I'm gonna
have to tell one of them that they're wrong today,
(01:08):
and I'm not I'm not looking forward to it because
this is the thing, like, these are friends, these are
people that I look up to, and someone's gonna lose.
They're both judges on Shopped who love talking about and
eating food. It's Amanda fry Tag and Mark Murphy. What
is going on today? Gang? Thanks so much for having
(01:28):
me so happy, excited to be here and and it's
always a pleasure to be involved with anything you do, Richard,
and of course with Amanda, you know, we do work
together on Chopped, and she's actually been right a few times.
So we'll see how this goes today. We will see
opinions are not hard to find when these two are around.
And I have to get this off. Listen, this is
(01:49):
a courtroom, okay, So like I will have to sort of, um,
you know, eventually leave my opinions at the door, so
to speak. But I want to tell both of you
that you you know, I probably have said this before
in person, but I want to say it on air
in my courts how much I admire both of you.
And when I became your friends, what a big moment
that was for me to become friends of Amanda and
(02:10):
Mark that that was a big moment for me. So
I'm always grateful for your friendship. Such a nice things.
When there when the cameras recording is looking amazing today,
your hair is looking on point. I don't know if
it's carrot Top or Conan. I don't know. I don't
know who it is. I hope it's Conan, like Conan
the Destroyer, Like I hope that's what it is and
(02:32):
not the You know, you're not the first person to
say Conan, And now that means I really have to
get a cut because I don't know, like, well, you're
barely I mean I know this the podcast and people
can't see, but you're barely fitting into the little screen
on my on my thing that the top parts just
cut off the hair. Well, then I have the technology.
I think you should do versus Gel, episode moves, versus
(02:54):
Gel always the content creator. We should do that. We
should do a non food related food Court has to
be edible. That's the only thing would have to be,
which I always thought would be a fun thing. And
I always say that the secret people don't know of
Ambarrell Guy, myself, Elizabeth Faulkner our hairstyle is. The recipe
is simple. It's equal parts duck fat in liquid nitrogen. Perfect.
(03:15):
That's it. That's that's all you mean that that one
marked in life. I mean that I just use olive oil.
So I don't know what you're talking about. Of course
you do, of course you do. Now listen, the judges
are becoming judge today. Today we're talking about condiments something
in the food Court theme song that no one has
argued yet. But first, let's get to know each other
a little bit better. Amanda, you've competed on Beat Bobby Flay,
(03:40):
next Iron Chef, so many different things. You're just crushing
the Instagram game now during the quarantine with easy a
f to name a few things. What's your most favorite
and least favorite things about competing on TV? My most
favorite thing is my brain creates under pressure. I cannot
(04:03):
believe it. It's amazing what happens under pressure. Every time
I go in thinking I'm not going to be able
to think of something, seven seconds later, I haven't. I
have too many ideas, and I really love that that
way of creating, that pressure cooker of creating. What I
hate is my nerves because my nerves have taken me
(04:24):
down multiple times. I can't find a way to relax.
As much as I love the adrenaline rush, sometimes it
really clouds my focus. So the nerves get me. But
I love the pressure, the creative pressure. We're we are
the same person like that. It's improv right, It's the
only way for us to really I mean sometimes it
happens when you're at home, but really competition is improv
(04:46):
and as that's an art form that we don't get
to use a lot, as like restaurant chefs. Right, I mean,
the other thing is I just always want to keep
going right, Like that's that's the other thing that's the
negative for me. It's like, man if I don't get
to go the next round, I've just warm it up. Yeah,
that's that's why we are the same person. Because that's
my problem with food competition shows is I wish it
was more like a sport where you play ten games.
(05:07):
If you win seven, you're a champion, right, But no,
you lose once and then all of a sudden you're
gone and we've all been there. But I love all
been there on both sides. What's now? This is a
tough one though. What's your favorite competition? Because you probably
have to be careful listen. I wish I could say
my favorite place to compete is the Chopped kitchen, but
(05:27):
it's not because it's actually the hardest. I really loved
competing in kitchen stadium. You know, my very first competition
was an Iron Chef against Bobby Flay. I competed twice
to become an Iron Chef on Next Iron Chef two
thousand nine and two twelve, so Iron Chef. The kitchen
stadium to me is a magical, magical place I really
(05:50):
love it there. Although Guy has created this tournament of
champions that truly is the most evil. The randomizer, I
think is the most evil. But I like cooking in
that kitchen. It is easy to cook in that kitchen
once you get going. La said, like someone who's competed
on there and and done well, which is not something
(06:10):
I can say. Mark. Listen, here's where where are you from?
I know you've lived all over Europe, but where where
you I'll give you the brief description because it's it's
much easier that way. I was born in Milan. I
am have French. I have a French passport and an
American passport. My mother's French father's American. So I was
born in Milan. I lived in Paris, Nice, Genoa, Rome,
(06:31):
New Hampshire one point for a boarding school that I
went to. And uh now I live in New York basically,
and I love to travel. This pandemic's got me tied down,
which is driving me not you're such a gypsy. Yeah,
but you know now, I've been in New York thirty
thirty years practically, so I really have made New York
City my home. I I sort of thought, I guess
as a younger person, I thought, the only place that's
(06:53):
going to be able to handle me is New York.
So here I am. I'm in New York. There it is.
And all I heard was boarding school in New Hampshire.
Was this a discipline my action that was taking out
of ben? I might not have lasted there because I
got kicked out for something fair enough. Listen with that
sort of pedigree of being literally a man from all
over the world, what were your favorite things to eat
(07:14):
growing up? Um? You know, there was always this one
moment when I used to spend this. Uh. There was
this little town called Lure above Grass in the south
of France, and my grandfather and my grandmother when they retired,
that's where they went right after when they retired. Look,
some people moved to Florida. My grandparents of French, so
they moved to the south of France. And when i'd
go there and spend the summer there, at which I
(07:34):
very much enjoyed. My grandfather always used to take me
to this one restaurant that was a little bit far away,
but he used to take me there because there was
a far garterine that they served there. But the old
school with the juet around it with that jelly, that
aspect all around it. And I used to get such
joy out of eating that, and he, I think used
to get such joy out of watching me eat that. That.
(07:55):
That was like our first trip when we got there,
and that was to me, one of the most amazing members.
But the second one was also with my grandfather because
once a week he would go down to Glass and
he would go to his cheese ladies. And he was
a very you know he was he was a very
good looking guy. He had the big white hair and
and he'd go in and charm the ladies and the
ladies that worked in the cheese shop, and of course
(08:16):
they had, you know, the little grandson would come along
with and they would just start plowing me with different
cheeses to try this one and try that one, because
they would always give you a little piece to try.
So I would walk out of the cheese shop. I
mean sometimes I would have a handful of cheese going.
I just couldn't do it all. Man, I was trying
them all, but I couldn't keep up. And and that
was like one of the most amazing things is going
(08:38):
into these cheese shops. He would go once a week
and that was the cheese is for the week. And
and you know I would have to eat the camembert
if it was if it was ready, you know, if
if he eat, if fie means it's soft in the middle,
it's ready to go, it would we go. Let's buy
one that's ready, and let's buy one that's ready in
four or five days, because we want a Camembart in
the beginning and the end of the week. But we
need to have one that's right. I want to I
(08:58):
need to interrupt you for a second because us the
world wants to know Murphy. Yeah, are you Irish? Well,
my grandparents on my French all this Italian. Where's the Murphy? Well,
the Murphy was my father's father, my grandfather and my
father's side. It was immigrated from Ireland. And yeah, so
that's that's where it comes from. Any interestingly enough, right
(09:19):
before the pandemic had about a couple months before that
was my first trip ever I went to Ireland. Finally
I had never been great. It was. It was really nice,
very very nice. And then of course I want to
know as a child, then was there a moment where
you found like an old little piece of a plus
in a pocket that I forgot about it. If you
(09:39):
have a little old piece of a plais in your pocket,
it will find you. It's not you it you might
have to throw that code out. Amazing. Okay, now listen,
here we go. This is the case that we have
in front of us. Amanda, please tell us about the
case you've brought into the food court and about a
sentence or so. Okay, in one sentence, I am here
(10:02):
to defend the ultimate condiment, the master of ou Mommy ketchup,
catch up. The crowd goes wild catch up as the
best condiment in the world. Potentially, that is a hard take,
especially for a chef of such accolades. Mark, what are
(10:25):
your thoughts on ketchup? You know, and it just talking
about my background and I I'm not huge on ketchup.
I never you know, I grew up in Europe obviously,
and ketchup was not something that And you know, I
think this has a lot to do with your your
parents as well, because I did not have much ketchup
in my life as a child, because my mother, who
(10:46):
was French, was maybe a little snobby about it and
sort of turned her nose that up to it. So
it was. It was one of those things that I
didn't really have the chance to get to get to know,
so to speak. I think we had stock in Hines.
We had Yeah, perhaps you have the the the rival
of ketchup. Maybe you enjoy another condiment, Mark, You know,
(11:07):
there's a lot of other condiments that I like. But
you get those questions and they go, what's always in
your fridge? Well, Dijon mustard is always in my fridge.
Let's let's let's be plain and simple about it. So
it's mustard versus catch Up. This is an epic food
court debate. It's the big one. Mark Murphy, Amanda fry Tag.
(11:28):
I cannot believe it's taken forty episodes to get to this.
It is American catchup versus you know, mustard. Here we go,
before we get into your arguments. Here in court, we
like to have a quick trivia round before we get
into the debate. The winner, Amanda loves trivia. The winner
of the trivia around gets to decide the order that
you present your arguments. And but also trivia is fun
(11:51):
and we are friends, so let's get into it. Amanda,
what will your sound effect being ming ming ding? There
it is ding ding ding ding the prize fighting bell, Mark,
what will your buzzer see if this works? Alright? Chink chat?
I like it. Okay, there we go. The clink of
a glass versus the verbal ding ding ding dinging, not
(12:14):
to be confused with the end of round sound, which
is a glass that I took from my room. Hopefully
I don't break that like I do most of the
glasses and food courts. It's ready to go. Here we go.
Trivia Question one? Are you ready? Marking? Amanda? Wait? I
need to know the rules a little bit better, so
when the question comes, I have to ring and then
I get to answer first. Yes, competitive much? Mark Murphy, Yes,
(12:37):
you have to bring your budge. I'm just checking and
also slowing Amanda because she's about to jump out of
her seat. Get that glass ready, Mark, Here we go.
Question one, in what city would you be making a
big faux pa if you were to put ketchup on
a hotdog? That is Amanda fry tag Berlin, Oh, would
(13:00):
say kind of a trick question, she said, Berlin, Mark,
do you want to jump in with the answer. I'm
not sure because I'm not a real authority on this,
but I think it should have two answers. She's I
think she needs to be recused or what do they
(13:21):
say in the courts? My time? I was playing my time.
We are gabbling Amanda for inappropriately yelling out the correct
answer with which was Chicago. But I was thinking, I'm sorry,
I needed to go domestic. You are listen you you
mentioned it in the open like overthinking, perhaps overthinking this
(13:43):
one going with Berlin, which you know curry work gets
a catch up, so I think you do. I get
that point. You do get that point, Mark Mark Murphy
gets one point. Of course, the answer was Chicago. But
it's not just Chicago anymore than National hot dog and
sausage count so recently came out in disapproval of adults.
You can catch up on for those eighteen years of
(14:08):
age and older. Acceptable weener toppings include mustard, relish onions, cheese,
and chili, and that is it's sausage. I feel the
same way you do. I I like a little chutney.
I like a little tomato chutney on my dog. I
just want to call it. Catch up here we got
question to Mark Murphy is in the lead. This one
(14:28):
is a multiple choice. What mustard brand has become known
as hip hop's favorite condiment. A French is B great poupon.
See Golden's that is gonna be Mark Murphy. Mark Murphy
gets the I think it's the second one, you said,
(14:49):
Mark Murphy, just going back to the S A T. S.
He's taking the middle one just because maybe that's that's
that's that's correct, the second one with or he has
to say the thing. He can't just say the middle one.
Can we turn her camera off? I have not had
to gabble someone twice, especially my friend. I can't, Amanda,
(15:10):
this is a court. This is a court. I will
do the discipline here. Mark said the middle one. I
will accept it as be knowing that Mark knows that
B is in the middle of A and C. The
answer was B. Market was gray poupon. It was first
reference in the Doss Effects song East Coast in bringing
me back to when I had dreadlocks. I knew that
(15:31):
which is a true thing, Which is a true thing.
And it's made its way into a song every year
until Kanye West's Life of Pablo in two, most recently
in Kendrick Lamar's Humble, where he uses it in the
same line as Ted Talk Crystal producer Crystal coming in
big with a hip hop fact question. How many questions
(15:53):
are there? Because she even went now because I'm already waiting,
well Mark, Mark, Mark, I can thank you, thank you,
thank you. Ordering the rivals bibles are in the house
usually usually Mark Murphy. Yes, you would be correct that
each question is worth one point, but because of the
penalty that you just committed, question three is now worth
(16:14):
seven points. Question three is worth seven points. This is
my court. Whoever gets this question right will win the
trivia round. In France banned the use of ketchup in
school cafeterias on all foods except one. What food is that?
The Nimimi ming Amanda fry Tag French fries. Amanda fry
(16:36):
Tag with an not real confident answer of French fries,
but her last name is fried Tag and she is correct.
Fry Tag rhymes with fries. Seven points for Amanda. She
takes the trivia around, coming back after being disciplined twice
(16:56):
and saying Berlin for the first time ever on this podcast. Amanda,
you now have seven points to Mark's two. That means
that you've won the trivia around and you have the
hard decision to make right now. Do you want to
present your case of ketchup first? Would you like Mark
to talk about mustard first? Mark goes first. All right,
(17:17):
Amanda's gonna take last licks, so to speak. That means
Mark will present first. Before we do that, let's take
a quick break. We are back in the food court
to recap today. We have the case of ketchup verse mustard,
(17:41):
a condiment debate that happens all over the place in
backyards across the world. Kids have especially strong opinions on
this one. Embery, do you prefer ketchup or a mustard?
Embery prefers ketchup. Luckily for Mark, she will not be
making the decision today. Now listen. The way this works
is that each of you will have three minutes to
state your case. During this three minutes you need to
(18:02):
lay out your case and not focus on your opponents.
Use the first three minutes as your campaigning time to
really convince me that you're correct. Does that make sense? Everyone?
I got you, Yes, Do not fret. You'll get two
minutes of rebuttal time to say anything you want negative
about ketchup or mustard. Three minutes are on the clock.
Mark Murphy, you present first, your case for mustard, your
(18:23):
time starts now. Well, mustard, mustard, Mustard, it is a
it's it's to me, it's one of the most important
ingredients in cooking, and it has so many more versatile,
you know, uses than ketchup. I mean, I'm not gonna
talk about ketchup. I'm not gonna talk ketchup down because
it's I think it will just speak for itself when
(18:45):
I tell you how good mustard is. So first of all,
mustard is a base for so many sauces. I mean,
if you think of an ioli, people are always saying,
you know, things about ketchup and French fries, which it's okay,
really not that great, but I mean, catch up with
an ioli is uh, it's it's you know, far superior, right,
(19:05):
And of course what is in annoli there's there's obviously
mustard in that. So so there's just a simple example
of how a French fry. And you can go and
talk to the Belgium about this, because in Belgium that's
what they put on their French fries. It's the proper
thing to do. Let's just put it that way. And
then of course you think of finishing sauces you. It
gives such a great background. You can make vinteigrettes with it.
(19:28):
I mean, what are you gonna make a vintegrete with ketchup?
I mean, yuck, ketchup is a is not is not
as versatile. I'm just gonna put it that way. Not
only that, and you start thinking about mustard and all
the different types of mustards there are. I mean, you've
got your classic Dijon, which is, of course, I think
the king of mustards because it's far superior than the others.
But right behind it, I'm not gonna put I'm not
(19:51):
gonna throw out of bed my uh you know, my
whole grain mustard that's gonna come. That's that's something that's
a wonderful product as well. I'm not as happy about
the the yellow mustard that people put on hot dogs.
I know it's a classic here in America, and you know,
but it is still in the mustard family. So we're
gonna we're gonna bring it along with us because it's
(20:11):
just another part of my argument. It's part of it's
it's another folder in my file of case study here
of the superiority of mustard. And you know, let's talk
about the health benefits. Mustard is one of those things
that is obviously much healthier for you than than ketchup ketchup.
A lot of the times has sugar in it um
(20:31):
and that is not something you want to add more
to um. I did actually when when I I did
speak to a guy once who was talking about versatility
on mustard. He was the purchaser for the sixth Fleet.
And it was when I was in Rome and I
had I was working at the embassy after I got
kicked out of school once and I was working in
the mail room and I was talking to this guy
(20:53):
and he was the purchaser for the sixth fleet, and
for some reason they had messed up in order and
one of the cruise ships got so much mustard that
they couldn't use it all, but they didn't know what
to do with it. But there's such there's a there's
the right amount of He had to study the mustard
that they had gotten, and he realized that there was
enough vinegar in the mustard that they could use it
to wash the dishes because it would cut the grease.
(21:15):
So there's there's another sort of usage of mustard that
kind of just you know, takes you, takes you, takes
you through it. Oh oh, I think my time's up.
I can't wait to hear them. Rarely, especially when it
comes to the chefs, but these are celebrity chefs. Rarely
do they fill the three minutes. Mark Murphy coming in
filling the three minutes. Let's all be honest. Who knew
(21:37):
where that six fleet story was going? But a bottle
of mustard? He wrapped it up though, And I am curious.
I want to wash some dishes and mustard right now.
I don't. I don't know if that's a great like
pitch for for mustard. But it's versatile. That seems to
be Mark stance there. It's versatile and it's healthy for you,
(21:59):
and it's in so many things that maybe you don't
even know if you're not a chef. So a great
case laid out there fore, Mustard, Amanda, you now have
three minutes to let us know why catchup is the best? Right?
Your three minutes starts now? Okay? Ketch Up is the original?
Like I said, oh mommy, Ketchup was originally made from
oysters and mushrooms anchovies Lennon's. It was actually made in China.
(22:26):
Original word was keys yap and it was made from
fermented fish. And so we brought tomato into this, which
also makes it much healthier because tomato has lego peen,
which has been known to help prevent cancer. Everybody. And
not only is there one tomato ketchup in the world,
but there are fifty seven varieties under the Hinds umbrella alone,
(22:50):
fifty seven marks. Oh sorry, I'm ready to fight anyway.
Where would we be without ketchup of Americans home? America's
homes have a bottle of ketchup in it. I grew
up with it. I know there was nothing wrong with ketchup,
And when you think about it, you really probably couldn't
make it through seven days a week without having ketchup
(23:12):
in some form. It's in barbecue sauce. It's in and
on top of meat loaf. We put it in cocktail
sauce for shrimp cocktail with horseradish and lemon and pepper.
It's glazes. It goes into curries, stir fries, pickles, co
saw Russian dressing, Thousand Island, even Catalina come on, and
it has everything you would ever want in a condiment.
(23:34):
It's salty, it's acidic, it's sweet, it's colorful, it's quite beautiful, actually,
and it compliments French fries and hamburgers. It's like peanut
butter and jelly. There's no other combination in the world
that's better than that. And I will stick to my
guns on that ketchup fact an opinion, and I stand down,
(23:58):
and I'm ready to fight. I stand down, but I'm
ready to fight. And in passioned and in passioned argument,
I'm really happy with this is not in the studio.
I'm I'm scared of Amanda. I mean, I mean she
went to the Mayo Clinic and and found all this
(24:20):
information out about the leotine and the catin and whatever
she made up there. I'm I'm gonna have to We're
gonna have to do some Is there a fact checking?
Is there a fact checking there? I have this. I've
never used the gavel as much, probably because it's fun.
Because he's two birds from my hotel room. I broke one.
Don't tell them. But yes, Mark, we do have a
(24:43):
fact checker. That's producer Crystal. She is texting me while
the arguments are happening, and all of those are facts,
Like opeene is a real thing, that is in tomatoes.
My question would be, Amanda, tom Brady doesn't eat likeco pine.
He doesn't eat tomatoes, so couldn't really be healthy if
tom Brady doesn't experience it. He also doesn't need French
fries or burgers or meat loaf. Fair enough, fair enough
(25:07):
that he wouldn't go near your ketchup. That is fair.
I I don't know if it is a positive for
most Americans who might not know. In the opening, Amanda
says ketchups about oysters, mushrooms, and fermented fish. People do
not know that, and we probably maybe shouldn't tell them,
but we know as chefs. That's why it provides lots
of flavors. Catalina dressing came up, and at one point
Amanda waxing poetically about salty, sweet, colorful, beautiful ketchup, and
(25:33):
my mind goes straight to Andy Warhol. Oh my gosh,
is it art? What a debate? Ketchup? First mustard. We
are now to get into our our rebuttal Now this
time where Mark you get to tell Amanda why ketchup? Socks? Well?
Two minutes you're ready? Yeah, I'm ready? Am I ready?
He is ready? Mark Murphy? Your two minutes starts now. Okay, Well,
(25:55):
my first question is, is is the original Ketchup, which you
claim to come from China, with the oyster and all
those zoomami flavors I it did? Does any of that
exist in today's Ketchup at all? First of all, so
are we talking about an old a condiment that has
changed so much? It sounds like the original was probably
a lot better all that umami flavor. Because I have
(26:17):
to tell you, when I taste Ketchup, the last thing
I think about zum mommy, I think that the the
the recipe now, which is what I'm going with. And
maybe there are fifty seven varieties under the Hinds umbrella.
I'm not sure why you have to have, you know,
that many of one of one ingredient. That's just not
that great. It seems a little overkilled to me. But
(26:38):
you know, it is interesting too. One thing I do
know about Ketchup is they have to change the recipe
for different countries. From what I understand, in Europe they
actually have more vinegar in the Ketchup recipe. And to
me that that just goes to show you the problem
with Ketchup. It does not please everybody. I can assure
you that the Dijon mustard is is one is one type.
(27:01):
There's there's a different flavored digital mustards, but you know
they'll add like maybe an herb, like a like a
tarragon digital mustard. And by the way, there is a
mustard that I did I did not bring up earlier,
and I'd like to talk about briefly, is the the
purple mustard, which is made with grape musk and it's
in that to me is also an amazing ingredient. Just
(27:22):
like so, for example, if you think of Ketchup and
their fifty seven varieties, I bet you that the difference
between those fifty seven is not as much of a
difference between let's say, a digital mustard, a whole grain mustard,
or a yellow French Is mustard or a purple mustard.
For that sake, I just think that the variety is
there might be numbers listed that Amanda was talking about.
(27:42):
As she's holding up a thing of Ketchup with the
number fifty seven on it. Um, I think I'm gonna
have to just rest there for now. Thank you. Mark
Murphy coming in, I will say, I don't know if
Mark Murphy has ever represented anyone in an actual court.
But it sounds like it. It sounds like maybe it's
just also like I can see his house, which it
(28:03):
looks like there's an attorney that lives there and someone's
dead and and what a well, like really kind of
Kanda did debunking maybe the fact that, like, if you
want to talk about variety, maybe it's mustard, right, Maybe
mustard is really where the variety is at. Purple must
Crystal leff we Ever had an episode where fermented fish
and grape must were both mentioned in in both arguments.
(28:25):
That is insane. All right, Amanda, listen, you have two
minutes now to let Mark know while mustard is the worst,
get it the worst. But you're I don't even have
anyone writing that stuff. Here we go, Amanda, You're two
minute rebuttal starts now. You know, respectfully, all of what
(28:46):
Mark said in his opinion is true. Mustard is very versatile,
and there are many different kinds, but certainly not as
many as ketchup as we've seen over the last ten years,
many many companies trying to beat the hinds like Sir
Kensington or every chef in every restaurant making their own ketchup.
(29:07):
I mean, who makes their own mustard. Nobody because nobody
wants to. Everybody wants to make their own ketchup. They
want to make it better, they want to make it bigger.
They want to be the next Hinds with all that
flavor balance inside of it. Okay, And when you talk
about the different varieties of mustard, you're talking about one
flavor note and there's lots of vinegar and lots of
(29:29):
acid in there. And let's just go back to kids
for a second. Kids are the most honest of all creatures.
And when kids say something, that means it's true, and
kids love catch up. Okay, I'm not I'm not finished.
Could you make a meat loaf without it? I can
make meat loaf without mustard? Nope. Could you make barbecue
(29:52):
sauce without ketchup? I can make barbecue sauce without mustard. Yes,
sometimes they both end up in there, but you cannot
do it. You can't make it without ketchup. There's so
many things you can't make without ketchup, especially life in general.
I will tell you this. It is this, This is
a lies, all of them. This is a tough one
(30:14):
right here. Ketchup verset mustard Amanda verse Mark, Wow, I
have a lot to think about with this one. I
have no idea. Usually at this point I know who's
gonna take it. I am not so sure right now.
So I'm gonna quickly retire to my chambers, which is
off screen here for five seconds Exhibit A. I I
have an exhibit I'd like to presume. Okay, Mark, you
will have you will level one minute closing when we
(30:35):
come back from this research. I just want I just
I just want to say that there's there's there's Japanese
meat loaf that doesn't that recipe doesn't have ketchup in it.
I just want to put it. Will we will, we
will strike March's last comment about Japanese meat loaf as
it was said to strike that one Japanese meet love
will not be In consideration of this, I'm going to
(30:57):
retire to the chambers. I will be back. We're at
a quick recess, and I'll come back with my verdict.
This is Japanese Japanese meat low. I might have made
that up. I love it, by the I might have
(31:18):
made that up. Okay, we are back in the food courts,
and I think I've made up my mind. But before
I deliver my final verdict to either of you. Have
a final word you'd like to say in about a
minute or so, Mark Murphy, it's your last chance. I
I just I just want to say, for all the
people out there that are real Mustard followers, I've I've
(31:40):
I've didn't have done the best I could to represent Mustard.
I I think the truth is in the debate that
was happened today, and I'm I'm hoping that you, you know,
your honor have have understood and and and seeing the
light of the of the beauty of the ingredient must
have a threat. No, it wasn't. And I was just hoping,
(32:01):
hoping you're hoping you get this right. I will have
the Mustard the Mustard police after me for this one
if I don't agree with Mark. Okay, Amanda, what about you?
A minute? A minute here? Any last closing statements on
Ketchup in behalf of Ketchup. Yes, on behalf of Ketchup,
which has given me many wonderful experiences and nostalgic food memories.
(32:23):
I grew up with it. A ketch up, A French
fried dipped in ketchup is probably one of my favorite things,
next to a Burger dallast in ketchup, and those are
memories that I don't want to live without. I can
live in a world without mustard, but I won't live
in a world without Ketchup. Okay, I did have one
other question for the for the opposite side, is that
(32:43):
is that possible to have one question? Will allow this question? Okay?
You know the question is is you in your statement
you said how everybody like as you said, everybody's trying
to come up with a different recipe for ketchup. Chefs
are making their own chefs or the other brands have
come out with different ketchups. I'm just wondering, if ketchup
is so great, why is everybody trying to reinvent the
(33:05):
wheel and trying to make their own ketchup? I just
I just don't understand. Is it something that hasn't been
perfected yet? Because imitation is the greatest form of flattering?
Thank you? Alright? Getting an extra I was gonna gabbl
and but you know what, I this is such a
passionate argument here, having a little overtime works. Okay, listen,
(33:25):
this one is tough because these are amazing chef friends
of mine that I still want to be my friend.
After this decision here on food Court, I have thought
long and hard about it. Both chefs really making a
great case. I mean, Mark Murphy mustard being versatile. It's
in ioli, it's in dressing, it's a binder, it's it's proper,
(33:47):
you know, Mark telling his story about, you know, growing
up in Europe where they don't really use a lot
of ketchups. So mustard is like maybe the table condiment
that everyone's familiar with, you know, a little knock against
Mark's argument for knocking yellow mustard as being the black
sheep of the mustard family. Come on, Mark, come on,
we we like yellow mustard. And then, you know, I
(34:07):
have to say one of my favorite stories ever in
food Court is now the sixth Fleet Mustard dishwashing story.
It will live forever. We might have to work it
into the theme song. I loved it. Oh, I forgot
to tell you what it takes tarnish off of things.
I forgot that was my other. It does de tarnish things. Sorry,
(34:28):
turn out of turn. But listen, Mark, you had extra
time as well. This I can tell you why. I know,
I know, I just feel bad about being the disrespect
towards the court. It's all competent, no disrespect here. Competition
is at its peak right now. Amanda making the case
that that Ketchup is full of oo, mommy oysters, mushrooms,
fermented fish, lyaco, peen, and of Americans have it on
(34:50):
their table. It's it's used in cataline ad dressing, which
little did she know that that's the dressing of my
new beef tartar at my new restaurant. But at the
end of the day, this is a tough decision Ketchup
verse Mustard. But it did come down to actually our
final closing comments. That's how close this battle was. In
the last minute that our competitors had to talk, this
(35:12):
was said, and this will determine the verdict. I don't
want to live in a world without Ketchup. This court
favors Up. I rest my case poetry. Who knew? Can I?
(35:33):
Can I make a confession? Ketchup? Can I make a confession?
Ever since I was a kid, when I sauced my
hot dog, half would be mustard and half would be catchup?
Fair enough, I do not believe in the National hot
Dog Sausage Counsel or whatever that wasn't I put ketchup
(35:54):
on my dog as well. And honestly, I love mustard.
I'm making my own mustard too. There's all these wild
mustards going out here in this hill behind me. Mark
and Amanda, thank you so much for joining me on
the food court. I always say this when we have
a great time. Would you come back on another episode?
I think it'd be a pretty dynamic one too, punch
To be honest, I would love to. All right, that's it,
(36:16):
Yes from Amanda, and I don't, I don't, I don't know.
From Mark. Oh no, I'm definitely into it. Absolutely. Thank
you so much for hanging out with us today. You
can find more of Amanda on Instagram at chef Amanda
f and at Amanda Fry tag on Twitter. You can
learn to cook from Amanda and her Easy a f
videos that I've been watching all the time. They go
live every Monday night on Instagram, TV and YouTube. Lots
(36:39):
of great tips in there, plus you get to see
what's in your fridge lots of ketchup obviously. You can
also catch both Mark and Amanda judging on Chopped practically
anytime you turn on the television on Food Network. Find
Mark on both Twitter and Instagram at chef Mark Murphy
and if you're in New York City, support his restaurants
Landmark and Ditch Planes. Listen, thanks so much for hanging
(37:00):
out with us. Thank you again. I love both of you.
Will also will also release in a special edition the
thirty Minutes Tech Setup that happened. So sorry, I am
so mortified that was recorded. No, it's all of us. Listen, audience,
what do you think? I know that you think that
I got it wrong? Half of you think that? Do
you love Catchup? Do you love Mustard? Do you hate
(37:22):
them both? Do you love mayonnaise even better? Maybe I do?
Do you think I got this one totally wrong? Let
us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram or at
Richard Blaze, across social media, even on TikTok now at
Richard Blaze Official. Food Court is a production of I
Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bahi.
Food Court was created by our executive producer, Christopher Hasiotis.
(37:44):
The rest of my food Court clerks are David Wasserman
and Jasmine Blaze. Our theme song is by Jason Nee Smith.
Also in court today is Embry Blaze. Embery's I want
to say hello and goodbye. For more podcasts from I
Heeart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Whoever told you
(38:10):
that a hot dog was a sandwich,
Creamy, creamy, crunchy. Food Court. Food Court, food Court with Blaze.
Are you in the food Court Court with rich Blase?
(00:26):
Food Listen? Listen, here we go. All right, all right,
welcome to food Court, a production of I Heart Radio.
I am Richard Blaze and I will be your host
(00:47):
and your judge in this courtroom. There are two guests
today will have to live with my final decision. Joining
us in the court today. We have two amazing chefs
and also listen, I've known them for a very very
long time, which is not me saying that we're all old,
but listen, they know their stuff. But unfortunately, I'm gonna
have to tell one of them that they're wrong today,
(01:08):
and I'm not I'm not looking forward to it because
this is the thing, like, these are friends, these are
people that I look up to, and someone's gonna lose.
They're both judges on Shopped who love talking about and
eating food. It's Amanda fry Tag and Mark Murphy. What
is going on today? Gang? Thanks so much for having
(01:28):
me so happy, excited to be here and and it's
always a pleasure to be involved with anything you do, Richard,
and of course with Amanda, you know, we do work
together on Chopped, and she's actually been right a few times.
So we'll see how this goes today. We will see
opinions are not hard to find when these two are around.
And I have to get this off. Listen, this is
(01:49):
a courtroom, okay, So like I will have to sort of, um,
you know, eventually leave my opinions at the door, so
to speak. But I want to tell both of you
that you you know, I probably have said this before
in person, but I want to say it on air
in my courts how much I admire both of you.
And when I became your friends, what a big moment
that was for me to become friends of Amanda and
(02:10):
Mark that that was a big moment for me. So
I'm always grateful for your friendship. Such a nice things.
When there when the cameras recording is looking amazing today,
your hair is looking on point. I don't know if
it's carrot Top or Conan. I don't know. I don't
know who it is. I hope it's Conan, like Conan
the Destroyer, Like I hope that's what it is and
(02:32):
not the You know, you're not the first person to
say Conan, And now that means I really have to
get a cut because I don't know, like, well, you're
barely I mean I know this the podcast and people
can't see, but you're barely fitting into the little screen
on my on my thing that the top parts just
cut off the hair. Well, then I have the technology.
I think you should do versus Gel, episode moves, versus
(02:54):
Gel always the content creator. We should do that. We
should do a non food related food Court has to
be edible. That's the only thing would have to be,
which I always thought would be a fun thing. And
I always say that the secret people don't know of
Ambarrell Guy, myself, Elizabeth Faulkner our hairstyle is. The recipe
is simple. It's equal parts duck fat in liquid nitrogen. Perfect.
(03:15):
That's it. That's that's all you mean that that one
marked in life. I mean that I just use olive oil.
So I don't know what you're talking about. Of course
you do, of course you do. Now listen, the judges
are becoming judge today. Today we're talking about condiments something
in the food Court theme song that no one has
argued yet. But first, let's get to know each other
a little bit better. Amanda, you've competed on Beat Bobby Flay,
(03:40):
next Iron Chef, so many different things. You're just crushing
the Instagram game now during the quarantine with easy a
f to name a few things. What's your most favorite
and least favorite things about competing on TV? My most
favorite thing is my brain creates under pressure. I cannot
(04:03):
believe it. It's amazing what happens under pressure. Every time
I go in thinking I'm not going to be able
to think of something, seven seconds later, I haven't. I
have too many ideas, and I really love that that
way of creating, that pressure cooker of creating. What I
hate is my nerves because my nerves have taken me
(04:24):
down multiple times. I can't find a way to relax.
As much as I love the adrenaline rush, sometimes it
really clouds my focus. So the nerves get me. But
I love the pressure, the creative pressure. We're we are
the same person like that. It's improv right, It's the
only way for us to really I mean sometimes it
happens when you're at home, but really competition is improv
(04:46):
and as that's an art form that we don't get
to use a lot, as like restaurant chefs. Right, I mean,
the other thing is I just always want to keep
going right, Like that's that's the other thing that's the
negative for me. It's like, man if I don't get
to go the next round, I've just warm it up. Yeah,
that's that's why we are the same person. Because that's
my problem with food competition shows is I wish it
was more like a sport where you play ten games.
(05:07):
If you win seven, you're a champion, right, But no,
you lose once and then all of a sudden you're
gone and we've all been there. But I love all
been there on both sides. What's now? This is a
tough one though. What's your favorite competition? Because you probably
have to be careful listen. I wish I could say
my favorite place to compete is the Chopped kitchen, but
(05:27):
it's not because it's actually the hardest. I really loved
competing in kitchen stadium. You know, my very first competition
was an Iron Chef against Bobby Flay. I competed twice
to become an Iron Chef on Next Iron Chef two
thousand nine and two twelve, so Iron Chef. The kitchen
stadium to me is a magical, magical place I really
(05:50):
love it there. Although Guy has created this tournament of
champions that truly is the most evil. The randomizer, I
think is the most evil. But I like cooking in
that kitchen. It is easy to cook in that kitchen
once you get going. La said, like someone who's competed
on there and and done well, which is not something
(06:10):
I can say. Mark. Listen, here's where where are you from?
I know you've lived all over Europe, but where where
you I'll give you the brief description because it's it's
much easier that way. I was born in Milan. I
am have French. I have a French passport and an
American passport. My mother's French father's American. So I was
born in Milan. I lived in Paris, Nice, Genoa, Rome,
(06:31):
New Hampshire one point for a boarding school that I
went to. And uh now I live in New York basically,
and I love to travel. This pandemic's got me tied down,
which is driving me not you're such a gypsy. Yeah,
but you know now, I've been in New York thirty
thirty years practically, so I really have made New York
City my home. I I sort of thought, I guess
as a younger person, I thought, the only place that's
(06:53):
going to be able to handle me is New York.
So here I am. I'm in New York. There it is.
And all I heard was boarding school in New Hampshire.
Was this a discipline my action that was taking out
of ben? I might not have lasted there because I
got kicked out for something fair enough. Listen with that
sort of pedigree of being literally a man from all
over the world, what were your favorite things to eat
(07:14):
growing up? Um? You know, there was always this one
moment when I used to spend this. Uh. There was
this little town called Lure above Grass in the south
of France, and my grandfather and my grandmother when they retired,
that's where they went right after when they retired. Look,
some people moved to Florida. My grandparents of French, so
they moved to the south of France. And when i'd
go there and spend the summer there, at which I
(07:34):
very much enjoyed. My grandfather always used to take me
to this one restaurant that was a little bit far away,
but he used to take me there because there was
a far garterine that they served there. But the old
school with the juet around it with that jelly, that
aspect all around it. And I used to get such
joy out of eating that, and he, I think used
to get such joy out of watching me eat that. That.
(07:55):
That was like our first trip when we got there,
and that was to me, one of the most amazing members.
But the second one was also with my grandfather because
once a week he would go down to Glass and
he would go to his cheese ladies. And he was
a very you know he was he was a very
good looking guy. He had the big white hair and
and he'd go in and charm the ladies and the
ladies that worked in the cheese shop, and of course
(08:16):
they had, you know, the little grandson would come along
with and they would just start plowing me with different
cheeses to try this one and try that one, because
they would always give you a little piece to try.
So I would walk out of the cheese shop. I
mean sometimes I would have a handful of cheese going.
I just couldn't do it all. Man, I was trying
them all, but I couldn't keep up. And and that
was like one of the most amazing things is going
(08:38):
into these cheese shops. He would go once a week
and that was the cheese is for the week. And
and you know I would have to eat the camembert
if it was if it was ready, you know, if
if he eat, if fie means it's soft in the middle,
it's ready to go, it would we go. Let's buy
one that's ready, and let's buy one that's ready in
four or five days, because we want a Camembart in
the beginning and the end of the week. But we
need to have one that's right. I want to I
(08:58):
need to interrupt you for a second because us the
world wants to know Murphy. Yeah, are you Irish? Well,
my grandparents on my French all this Italian. Where's the Murphy? Well,
the Murphy was my father's father, my grandfather and my
father's side. It was immigrated from Ireland. And yeah, so
that's that's where it comes from. Any interestingly enough, right
(09:19):
before the pandemic had about a couple months before that
was my first trip ever I went to Ireland. Finally
I had never been great. It was. It was really nice,
very very nice. And then of course I want to
know as a child, then was there a moment where
you found like an old little piece of a plus
in a pocket that I forgot about it. If you
(09:39):
have a little old piece of a plais in your pocket,
it will find you. It's not you it you might
have to throw that code out. Amazing. Okay, now listen,
here we go. This is the case that we have
in front of us. Amanda, please tell us about the
case you've brought into the food court and about a
sentence or so. Okay, in one sentence, I am here
(10:02):
to defend the ultimate condiment, the master of ou Mommy ketchup,
catch up. The crowd goes wild catch up as the
best condiment in the world. Potentially, that is a hard take,
especially for a chef of such accolades. Mark, what are
(10:25):
your thoughts on ketchup? You know, and it just talking
about my background and I I'm not huge on ketchup.
I never you know, I grew up in Europe obviously,
and ketchup was not something that And you know, I
think this has a lot to do with your your
parents as well, because I did not have much ketchup
in my life as a child, because my mother, who
(10:46):
was French, was maybe a little snobby about it and
sort of turned her nose that up to it. So
it was. It was one of those things that I
didn't really have the chance to get to get to know,
so to speak. I think we had stock in Hines.
We had Yeah, perhaps you have the the the rival
of ketchup. Maybe you enjoy another condiment, Mark, You know,
(11:07):
there's a lot of other condiments that I like. But
you get those questions and they go, what's always in
your fridge? Well, Dijon mustard is always in my fridge.
Let's let's let's be plain and simple about it. So
it's mustard versus catch Up. This is an epic food
court debate. It's the big one. Mark Murphy, Amanda fry Tag.
(11:28):
I cannot believe it's taken forty episodes to get to this.
It is American catchup versus you know, mustard. Here we go,
before we get into your arguments. Here in court, we
like to have a quick trivia round before we get
into the debate. The winner, Amanda loves trivia. The winner
of the trivia around gets to decide the order that
you present your arguments. And but also trivia is fun
(11:51):
and we are friends, so let's get into it. Amanda,
what will your sound effect being ming ming ding? There
it is ding ding ding ding the prize fighting bell, Mark,
what will your buzzer see if this works? Alright? Chink chat?
I like it. Okay, there we go. The clink of
a glass versus the verbal ding ding ding dinging, not
(12:14):
to be confused with the end of round sound, which
is a glass that I took from my room. Hopefully
I don't break that like I do most of the
glasses and food courts. It's ready to go. Here we go.
Trivia Question one? Are you ready? Marking? Amanda? Wait? I
need to know the rules a little bit better, so
when the question comes, I have to ring and then
I get to answer first. Yes, competitive much? Mark Murphy, Yes,
(12:37):
you have to bring your budge. I'm just checking and
also slowing Amanda because she's about to jump out of
her seat. Get that glass ready, Mark, Here we go.
Question one, in what city would you be making a
big faux pa if you were to put ketchup on
a hotdog? That is Amanda fry tag Berlin, Oh, would
(13:00):
say kind of a trick question, she said, Berlin, Mark,
do you want to jump in with the answer. I'm
not sure because I'm not a real authority on this,
but I think it should have two answers. She's I
think she needs to be recused or what do they
(13:21):
say in the courts? My time? I was playing my time.
We are gabbling Amanda for inappropriately yelling out the correct
answer with which was Chicago. But I was thinking, I'm sorry,
I needed to go domestic. You are listen you you
mentioned it in the open like overthinking, perhaps overthinking this
(13:43):
one going with Berlin, which you know curry work gets
a catch up, so I think you do. I get
that point. You do get that point, Mark Mark Murphy
gets one point. Of course, the answer was Chicago. But
it's not just Chicago anymore than National hot dog and
sausage count so recently came out in disapproval of adults.
You can catch up on for those eighteen years of
(14:08):
age and older. Acceptable weener toppings include mustard, relish onions, cheese,
and chili, and that is it's sausage. I feel the
same way you do. I I like a little chutney.
I like a little tomato chutney on my dog. I
just want to call it. Catch up here we got
question to Mark Murphy is in the lead. This one
(14:28):
is a multiple choice. What mustard brand has become known
as hip hop's favorite condiment. A French is B great poupon.
See Golden's that is gonna be Mark Murphy. Mark Murphy
gets the I think it's the second one, you said,
(14:49):
Mark Murphy, just going back to the S A T. S.
He's taking the middle one just because maybe that's that's
that's that's correct, the second one with or he has
to say the thing. He can't just say the middle one.
Can we turn her camera off? I have not had
to gabble someone twice, especially my friend. I can't, Amanda,
(15:10):
this is a court. This is a court. I will
do the discipline here. Mark said the middle one. I
will accept it as be knowing that Mark knows that
B is in the middle of A and C. The
answer was B. Market was gray poupon. It was first
reference in the Doss Effects song East Coast in bringing
me back to when I had dreadlocks. I knew that
(15:31):
which is a true thing, Which is a true thing.
And it's made its way into a song every year
until Kanye West's Life of Pablo in two, most recently
in Kendrick Lamar's Humble, where he uses it in the
same line as Ted Talk Crystal producer Crystal coming in
big with a hip hop fact question. How many questions
(15:53):
are there? Because she even went now because I'm already waiting,
well Mark, Mark, Mark, I can thank you, thank you,
thank you. Ordering the rivals bibles are in the house
usually usually Mark Murphy. Yes, you would be correct that
each question is worth one point, but because of the
penalty that you just committed, question three is now worth
(16:14):
seven points. Question three is worth seven points. This is
my court. Whoever gets this question right will win the
trivia round. In France banned the use of ketchup in
school cafeterias on all foods except one. What food is that?
The Nimimi ming Amanda fry Tag French fries. Amanda fry
(16:36):
Tag with an not real confident answer of French fries,
but her last name is fried Tag and she is correct.
Fry Tag rhymes with fries. Seven points for Amanda. She
takes the trivia around, coming back after being disciplined twice
(16:56):
and saying Berlin for the first time ever on this podcast. Amanda,
you now have seven points to Mark's two. That means
that you've won the trivia around and you have the
hard decision to make right now. Do you want to
present your case of ketchup first? Would you like Mark
to talk about mustard first? Mark goes first. All right,
(17:17):
Amanda's gonna take last licks, so to speak. That means
Mark will present first. Before we do that, let's take
a quick break. We are back in the food court
to recap today. We have the case of ketchup verse mustard,
(17:41):
a condiment debate that happens all over the place in
backyards across the world. Kids have especially strong opinions on
this one. Embery, do you prefer ketchup or a mustard?
Embery prefers ketchup. Luckily for Mark, she will not be
making the decision today. Now listen. The way this works
is that each of you will have three minutes to
state your case. During this three minutes you need to
(18:02):
lay out your case and not focus on your opponents.
Use the first three minutes as your campaigning time to
really convince me that you're correct. Does that make sense? Everyone?
I got you, Yes, Do not fret. You'll get two
minutes of rebuttal time to say anything you want negative
about ketchup or mustard. Three minutes are on the clock.
Mark Murphy, you present first, your case for mustard, your
(18:23):
time starts now. Well, mustard, mustard, Mustard, it is a
it's it's to me, it's one of the most important
ingredients in cooking, and it has so many more versatile,
you know, uses than ketchup. I mean, I'm not gonna
talk about ketchup. I'm not gonna talk ketchup down because
it's I think it will just speak for itself when
(18:45):
I tell you how good mustard is. So first of all,
mustard is a base for so many sauces. I mean,
if you think of an ioli, people are always saying,
you know, things about ketchup and French fries, which it's okay,
really not that great, but I mean, catch up with
an ioli is uh, it's it's you know, far superior, right,
(19:05):
And of course what is in annoli there's there's obviously
mustard in that. So so there's just a simple example
of how a French fry. And you can go and
talk to the Belgium about this, because in Belgium that's
what they put on their French fries. It's the proper
thing to do. Let's just put it that way. And
then of course you think of finishing sauces you. It
gives such a great background. You can make vinteigrettes with it.
(19:28):
I mean, what are you gonna make a vintegrete with ketchup?
I mean, yuck, ketchup is a is not is not
as versatile. I'm just gonna put it that way. Not
only that, and you start thinking about mustard and all
the different types of mustards there are. I mean, you've
got your classic Dijon, which is, of course, I think
the king of mustards because it's far superior than the others.
But right behind it, I'm not gonna put I'm not
(19:51):
gonna throw out of bed my uh you know, my
whole grain mustard that's gonna come. That's that's something that's
a wonderful product as well. I'm not as happy about
the the yellow mustard that people put on hot dogs.
I know it's a classic here in America, and you know,
but it is still in the mustard family. So we're
gonna we're gonna bring it along with us because it's
(20:11):
just another part of my argument. It's part of it's
it's another folder in my file of case study here
of the superiority of mustard. And you know, let's talk
about the health benefits. Mustard is one of those things
that is obviously much healthier for you than than ketchup ketchup.
A lot of the times has sugar in it um
(20:31):
and that is not something you want to add more
to um. I did actually when when I I did
speak to a guy once who was talking about versatility
on mustard. He was the purchaser for the sixth Fleet.
And it was when I was in Rome and I
had I was working at the embassy after I got
kicked out of school once and I was working in
the mail room and I was talking to this guy
(20:53):
and he was the purchaser for the sixth fleet, and
for some reason they had messed up in order and
one of the cruise ships got so much mustard that
they couldn't use it all, but they didn't know what
to do with it. But there's such there's a there's
the right amount of He had to study the mustard
that they had gotten, and he realized that there was
enough vinegar in the mustard that they could use it
to wash the dishes because it would cut the grease.
(21:15):
So there's there's another sort of usage of mustard that
kind of just you know, takes you, takes you, takes
you through it. Oh oh, I think my time's up.
I can't wait to hear them. Rarely, especially when it
comes to the chefs, but these are celebrity chefs. Rarely
do they fill the three minutes. Mark Murphy coming in
filling the three minutes. Let's all be honest. Who knew
(21:37):
where that six fleet story was going? But a bottle
of mustard? He wrapped it up though, And I am curious.
I want to wash some dishes and mustard right now.
I don't. I don't know if that's a great like
pitch for for mustard. But it's versatile. That seems to
be Mark stance there. It's versatile and it's healthy for you,
(21:59):
and it's in so many things that maybe you don't
even know if you're not a chef. So a great
case laid out there fore, Mustard, Amanda, you now have
three minutes to let us know why catchup is the best? Right?
Your three minutes starts now? Okay? Ketch Up is the original?
Like I said, oh mommy, Ketchup was originally made from
oysters and mushrooms anchovies Lennon's. It was actually made in China.
(22:26):
Original word was keys yap and it was made from
fermented fish. And so we brought tomato into this, which
also makes it much healthier because tomato has lego peen,
which has been known to help prevent cancer. Everybody. And
not only is there one tomato ketchup in the world,
but there are fifty seven varieties under the Hinds umbrella alone,
(22:50):
fifty seven marks. Oh sorry, I'm ready to fight anyway.
Where would we be without ketchup of Americans home? America's
homes have a bottle of ketchup in it. I grew
up with it. I know there was nothing wrong with ketchup,
And when you think about it, you really probably couldn't
make it through seven days a week without having ketchup
(23:12):
in some form. It's in barbecue sauce. It's in and
on top of meat loaf. We put it in cocktail
sauce for shrimp cocktail with horseradish and lemon and pepper.
It's glazes. It goes into curries, stir fries, pickles, co
saw Russian dressing, Thousand Island, even Catalina come on, and
it has everything you would ever want in a condiment.
(23:34):
It's salty, it's acidic, it's sweet, it's colorful, it's quite beautiful, actually,
and it compliments French fries and hamburgers. It's like peanut
butter and jelly. There's no other combination in the world
that's better than that. And I will stick to my
guns on that ketchup fact an opinion, and I stand down,
(23:58):
and I'm ready to fight. I stand down, but I'm
ready to fight. And in passioned and in passioned argument,
I'm really happy with this is not in the studio.
I'm I'm scared of Amanda. I mean, I mean she
went to the Mayo Clinic and and found all this
(24:20):
information out about the leotine and the catin and whatever
she made up there. I'm I'm gonna have to We're
gonna have to do some Is there a fact checking?
Is there a fact checking there? I have this. I've
never used the gavel as much, probably because it's fun.
Because he's two birds from my hotel room. I broke one.
Don't tell them. But yes, Mark, we do have a
(24:43):
fact checker. That's producer Crystal. She is texting me while
the arguments are happening, and all of those are facts,
Like opeene is a real thing, that is in tomatoes.
My question would be, Amanda, tom Brady doesn't eat likeco pine.
He doesn't eat tomatoes, so couldn't really be healthy if
tom Brady doesn't experience it. He also doesn't need French
fries or burgers or meat loaf. Fair enough, fair enough
(25:07):
that he wouldn't go near your ketchup. That is fair.
I I don't know if it is a positive for
most Americans who might not know. In the opening, Amanda
says ketchups about oysters, mushrooms, and fermented fish. People do
not know that, and we probably maybe shouldn't tell them,
but we know as chefs. That's why it provides lots
of flavors. Catalina dressing came up, and at one point
Amanda waxing poetically about salty, sweet, colorful, beautiful ketchup, and
(25:33):
my mind goes straight to Andy Warhol. Oh my gosh,
is it art? What a debate? Ketchup? First mustard. We
are now to get into our our rebuttal Now this
time where Mark you get to tell Amanda why ketchup? Socks? Well?
Two minutes you're ready? Yeah, I'm ready? Am I ready?
He is ready? Mark Murphy? Your two minutes starts now. Okay, Well,
(25:55):
my first question is, is is the original Ketchup, which you
claim to come from China, with the oyster and all
those zoomami flavors I it did? Does any of that
exist in today's Ketchup at all? First of all, so
are we talking about an old a condiment that has
changed so much? It sounds like the original was probably
a lot better all that umami flavor. Because I have
(26:17):
to tell you, when I taste Ketchup, the last thing
I think about zum mommy, I think that the the
the recipe now, which is what I'm going with. And
maybe there are fifty seven varieties under the Hinds umbrella.
I'm not sure why you have to have, you know,
that many of one of one ingredient. That's just not
that great. It seems a little overkilled to me. But
(26:38):
you know, it is interesting too. One thing I do
know about Ketchup is they have to change the recipe
for different countries. From what I understand, in Europe they
actually have more vinegar in the Ketchup recipe. And to
me that that just goes to show you the problem
with Ketchup. It does not please everybody. I can assure
you that the Dijon mustard is is one is one type.
(27:01):
There's there's a different flavored digital mustards, but you know
they'll add like maybe an herb, like a like a
tarragon digital mustard. And by the way, there is a
mustard that I did I did not bring up earlier,
and I'd like to talk about briefly, is the the
purple mustard, which is made with grape musk and it's
in that to me is also an amazing ingredient. Just
(27:22):
like so, for example, if you think of Ketchup and
their fifty seven varieties, I bet you that the difference
between those fifty seven is not as much of a
difference between let's say, a digital mustard, a whole grain mustard,
or a yellow French Is mustard or a purple mustard.
For that sake, I just think that the variety is
there might be numbers listed that Amanda was talking about.
(27:42):
As she's holding up a thing of Ketchup with the
number fifty seven on it. Um, I think I'm gonna
have to just rest there for now. Thank you. Mark
Murphy coming in, I will say, I don't know if
Mark Murphy has ever represented anyone in an actual court.
But it sounds like it. It sounds like maybe it's
just also like I can see his house, which it
(28:03):
looks like there's an attorney that lives there and someone's
dead and and what a well, like really kind of
Kanda did debunking maybe the fact that, like, if you
want to talk about variety, maybe it's mustard, right, Maybe
mustard is really where the variety is at. Purple must
Crystal leff we Ever had an episode where fermented fish
and grape must were both mentioned in in both arguments.
(28:25):
That is insane. All right, Amanda, listen, you have two
minutes now to let Mark know while mustard is the worst,
get it the worst. But you're I don't even have
anyone writing that stuff. Here we go, Amanda, You're two
minute rebuttal starts now. You know, respectfully, all of what
(28:46):
Mark said in his opinion is true. Mustard is very versatile,
and there are many different kinds, but certainly not as
many as ketchup as we've seen over the last ten years,
many many companies trying to beat the hinds like Sir
Kensington or every chef in every restaurant making their own ketchup.
(29:07):
I mean, who makes their own mustard. Nobody because nobody
wants to. Everybody wants to make their own ketchup. They
want to make it better, they want to make it bigger.
They want to be the next Hinds with all that
flavor balance inside of it. Okay, And when you talk
about the different varieties of mustard, you're talking about one
flavor note and there's lots of vinegar and lots of
(29:29):
acid in there. And let's just go back to kids
for a second. Kids are the most honest of all creatures.
And when kids say something, that means it's true, and
kids love catch up. Okay, I'm not I'm not finished.
Could you make a meat loaf without it? I can
make meat loaf without mustard? Nope. Could you make barbecue
(29:52):
sauce without ketchup? I can make barbecue sauce without mustard. Yes,
sometimes they both end up in there, but you cannot
do it. You can't make it without ketchup. There's so
many things you can't make without ketchup, especially life in general.
I will tell you this. It is this, This is
a lies, all of them. This is a tough one
(30:14):
right here. Ketchup verset mustard Amanda verse Mark, Wow, I
have a lot to think about with this one. I
have no idea. Usually at this point I know who's
gonna take it. I am not so sure right now.
So I'm gonna quickly retire to my chambers, which is
off screen here for five seconds Exhibit A. I I
have an exhibit I'd like to presume. Okay, Mark, you
will have you will level one minute closing when we
(30:35):
come back from this research. I just want I just
I just want to say that there's there's there's Japanese
meat loaf that doesn't that recipe doesn't have ketchup in it.
I just want to put it. Will we will, we
will strike March's last comment about Japanese meat loaf as
it was said to strike that one Japanese meet love
will not be In consideration of this, I'm going to
(30:57):
retire to the chambers. I will be back. We're at
a quick recess, and I'll come back with my verdict.
This is Japanese Japanese meat low. I might have made
that up. I love it, by the I might have
(31:18):
made that up. Okay, we are back in the food courts,
and I think I've made up my mind. But before
I deliver my final verdict to either of you. Have
a final word you'd like to say in about a
minute or so, Mark Murphy, it's your last chance. I
I just I just want to say, for all the
people out there that are real Mustard followers, I've I've
(31:40):
I've didn't have done the best I could to represent Mustard.
I I think the truth is in the debate that
was happened today, and I'm I'm hoping that you, you know,
your honor have have understood and and and seeing the
light of the of the beauty of the ingredient must
have a threat. No, it wasn't. And I was just hoping,
(32:01):
hoping you're hoping you get this right. I will have
the Mustard the Mustard police after me for this one
if I don't agree with Mark. Okay, Amanda, what about you?
A minute? A minute here? Any last closing statements on
Ketchup in behalf of Ketchup. Yes, on behalf of Ketchup,
which has given me many wonderful experiences and nostalgic food memories.
(32:23):
I grew up with it. A ketch up, A French
fried dipped in ketchup is probably one of my favorite things,
next to a Burger dallast in ketchup, and those are
memories that I don't want to live without. I can
live in a world without mustard, but I won't live
in a world without Ketchup. Okay, I did have one
other question for the for the opposite side, is that
(32:43):
is that possible to have one question? Will allow this question? Okay?
You know the question is is you in your statement
you said how everybody like as you said, everybody's trying
to come up with a different recipe for ketchup. Chefs
are making their own chefs or the other brands have
come out with different ketchups. I'm just wondering, if ketchup
is so great, why is everybody trying to reinvent the
(33:05):
wheel and trying to make their own ketchup? I just
I just don't understand. Is it something that hasn't been
perfected yet? Because imitation is the greatest form of flattering?
Thank you? Alright? Getting an extra I was gonna gabbl
and but you know what, I this is such a
passionate argument here, having a little overtime works. Okay, listen,
(33:25):
this one is tough because these are amazing chef friends
of mine that I still want to be my friend.
After this decision here on food Court, I have thought
long and hard about it. Both chefs really making a
great case. I mean, Mark Murphy mustard being versatile. It's
in ioli, it's in dressing, it's a binder, it's it's proper,
(33:47):
you know, Mark telling his story about, you know, growing
up in Europe where they don't really use a lot
of ketchups. So mustard is like maybe the table condiment
that everyone's familiar with, you know, a little knock against
Mark's argument for knocking yellow mustard as being the black
sheep of the mustard family. Come on, Mark, come on,
we we like yellow mustard. And then, you know, I
(34:07):
have to say one of my favorite stories ever in
food Court is now the sixth Fleet Mustard dishwashing story.
It will live forever. We might have to work it
into the theme song. I loved it. Oh, I forgot
to tell you what it takes tarnish off of things.
I forgot that was my other. It does de tarnish things. Sorry,
(34:28):
turn out of turn. But listen, Mark, you had extra
time as well. This I can tell you why. I know,
I know, I just feel bad about being the disrespect
towards the court. It's all competent, no disrespect here. Competition
is at its peak right now. Amanda making the case
that that Ketchup is full of oo, mommy oysters, mushrooms,
fermented fish, lyaco, peen, and of Americans have it on
(34:50):
their table. It's it's used in cataline ad dressing, which
little did she know that that's the dressing of my
new beef tartar at my new restaurant. But at the
end of the day, this is a tough decision Ketchup
verse Mustard. But it did come down to actually our
final closing comments. That's how close this battle was. In
the last minute that our competitors had to talk, this
(35:12):
was said, and this will determine the verdict. I don't
want to live in a world without Ketchup. This court
favors Up. I rest my case poetry. Who knew? Can I?
(35:33):
Can I make a confession? Ketchup? Can I make a confession?
Ever since I was a kid, when I sauced my
hot dog, half would be mustard and half would be catchup?
Fair enough, I do not believe in the National hot
Dog Sausage Counsel or whatever that wasn't I put ketchup
(35:54):
on my dog as well. And honestly, I love mustard.
I'm making my own mustard too. There's all these wild
mustards going out here in this hill behind me. Mark
and Amanda, thank you so much for joining me on
the food court. I always say this when we have
a great time. Would you come back on another episode?
I think it'd be a pretty dynamic one too, punch
To be honest, I would love to. All right, that's it,
(36:16):
Yes from Amanda, and I don't, I don't, I don't know.
From Mark. Oh no, I'm definitely into it. Absolutely. Thank
you so much for hanging out with us today. You
can find more of Amanda on Instagram at chef Amanda
f and at Amanda Fry tag on Twitter. You can
learn to cook from Amanda and her Easy a f
videos that I've been watching all the time. They go
live every Monday night on Instagram, TV and YouTube. Lots
(36:39):
of great tips in there, plus you get to see
what's in your fridge lots of ketchup obviously. You can
also catch both Mark and Amanda judging on Chopped practically
anytime you turn on the television on Food Network. Find
Mark on both Twitter and Instagram at chef Mark Murphy
and if you're in New York City, support his restaurants
Landmark and Ditch Planes. Listen, thanks so much for hanging
(37:00):
out with us. Thank you again. I love both of you.
Will also will also release in a special edition the
thirty Minutes Tech Setup that happened. So sorry, I am
so mortified that was recorded. No, it's all of us. Listen, audience,
what do you think? I know that you think that
I got it wrong? Half of you think that? Do
you love Catchup? Do you love Mustard? Do you hate
(37:22):
them both? Do you love mayonnaise even better? Maybe I do?
Do you think I got this one totally wrong? Let
us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram or at
Richard Blaze, across social media, even on TikTok now at
Richard Blaze Official. Food Court is a production of I
Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bahi.
Food Court was created by our executive producer, Christopher Hasiotis.
(37:44):
The rest of my food Court clerks are David Wasserman
and Jasmine Blaze. Our theme song is by Jason Nee Smith.
Also in court today is Embry Blaze. Embery's I want
to say hello and goodbye. For more podcasts from I
Heeart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Whoever told you
(38:10):
that a hot dog was a sandwich,
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